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I've seen the starter type that Duncan is referring to. The high
torque starters sold for the TR's work as Bill describes and I'm pretty
sure the stock ones do too. Maybe the one in my van had the plunger
in the solenoid - not sure which car?<br><br>
Tony<br><br>
At 09:40 AM 3/26/2017, Duncan Charlton via Fot wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Oh, I see — you’re referring
to an “inertia” starter motor.<br><br>
The "integral” solenoid I’m referring to is the type that’s
mounted to a pre-engaged starter motor, thus “integrated” with the
starter motor unit, ie: built-in. The ones I’ve disassembled had
a piston inside that was moved by an electromagnet when the lead from the
ignition switch provides 12V, and the piston simultaneously moves a
linkage that shifts the bendix gear into position against the ring gear
while closing the circuit on the two heavy contacts connecting the
battery with the electric motor, causing it to spin.<br><br>
Duncan Charlton<br>
Elgin, Texas USA<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 26, 2017, at 9:32 AM,
Bill Babcock
<<a href="mailto:ponobill@gmail.com">ponobill@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
Ah, you’re thinking that the integrated solenoid makes the starter gear
engage. no, it’s just a high-current relay—functionally identical to
the separate solenoid the old Luca unit uses. I can’t think of a
purpose to have a second solenoid—don’t know why they call that
particular relay a Solenoid . The bendix engages by drag on a helical
actuator. Purely mechanical in every starter I’ve ever seen. <br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 26, 2017, at 5:18 AM,
Duncan Charlton via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
Your’re right — what I meant to say was that I shorted from the
terminal with the incoming heavy lead to the small terminal that has the
starter switch lead on it. That activates the solenoid rather than
bypassing it, which likely simply spins the starter motor and doesn’t
move the bendix.<br><br>
Duncan Charlton<br>
Elgin, Texas USA<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 25, 2017, at 10:05 PM,
Bill Babcock
<<a href="mailto:ponobill@gmail.com">ponobill@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
If you short across the big terminals you eliminate the integrated
solenoid. <br><br>
I have seen people bypass the integrated solenoid and use an external
one, but my experience with the gear reduction starters is that they fail
in the connection to the field coil, and rarely anywhere else. <br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 25, 2017, at 6:28 PM,
Duncan Charlton via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
Unless… <br><br>
We’ve had two cars that had starting problems that were cured by using
a second solenoid. The actual problem with both was most likely due
to a voltage loss between the battery, the ignition switch and the
starter solenoid. <br><br>
The Ford solenoid requires very low voltage (something like 2 volts) to
engage, whereas the one on my (German) Opel 1900 and the one on the 1978
Datsun 280Z clearly required a lot more. I could short across the
big terminals to get the car to start, so I knew the starter motor and
the integrated solenoid were both good. <br><br>
Duncan Charlton<br>
Elgin, Texas USA<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 25, 2017, at 6:32 PM,
Bill Babcock via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
Are you guys not using the gear reduction starters? The built in solenoid
in the starters is a very reliable part. If you’re using a solenoid to
activate the solenoid, I think you have one too many. <br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Mar 25, 2017, at 1:48 PM,
Paul Ricco via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
Napa auto parts has a part number ST51. <br><br>
We went with as an emergency repair to replace a broken Lucas at the
track on a Sunday. They were the only ones in the town open that had
anything. The counter person spent an hour researching what they had that
would work. It works. Very reliable. <br><br>
I think its actually for 60's era Ford trucks. The Tr4 does not seem to
mind or be insulted by it any way.<br><br>
Good Luck, <br><br>
Paul<br><br>
Sent from my iPhone<br><br>
On Mar 25, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Tony Drews via Fot
<<a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I replaced my Lucas unit (with
button) with one from the local Farm and Fleet. Has been dead
reliable for 15 years.<br><br>
Tony Drews<br><br>
At 02:08 PM 3/25/2017, Bob Totten via Fot wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><font size=4 color="#0000FF">
Group wisdom on Starter Solenoids for our Triumph's ? <br><br>
Who sells the better quality Lucas (?) units as my starting problem has
pointed to the solenoid is not functioning properly. Would also be
interested in learning about any alternative brand that would be better
in the long run. In 20 years of running my Spit my 5th unit is on
the fritz or is that the life span for these things?<br><br>
Curious,<br><br>
Bob T<br>
'64 Spit GT autocrosser<br><br>
PS I have inspected and tested the starter, and had it tested at
the local Advance Auto Parts and it functions just fine(?).<br>
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