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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If not indexed properly it will cut the throw off center and
will alter the stroke a bit depending on how far it’s off and who is running
the grinder! The most recent engine with this issue, the TDS on the throws differed
by .004”….. Only way to repair this was to cut the rod journals down to .020
under, correctly this time!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> TR3driver@ca.rr.com
[mailto:TR3driver@ca.rr.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 27, 2016 12:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Steve Yott<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fot<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I'm a bit confused, Steve (not unusual these days). When you say
"indexing", I think of rotational position; which would affect
timing, but not piston/head clearance. <br>
Are you saying that the length of the throws (radial position) can be off as
well?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-- Randall<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 27 May 2016 10:45 a.m., Steve Yott <tr4@wi.rr.com>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Since most of you like to play the “death with pistons” game
keep in mind one additional factor as you are building your engines. Over
the years I have found crankshafts which were reground and the throws were not
very precisely indexed. When a crank is setup on the grinding machine for
grinding rod journals it is set and reset by the number of “throws”… on a 4
cylinder engine the grinder has to be indexed twice and on the 6 cylinder, 3
times. If the grinder, either the person or the machine is not perfectly
accurate you will see variations of TDC for the throws! I have seen these
deviations be as much as .006” when a good grinder will hold dimensions within
.001”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, if you are running close squishes…. Measure TDC on #1 and #2
on the four cylinder and #1, #2 and #3 on the 6 motors….. this way to can make
sure your throws and TDC’s are spot on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Yott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Styduhar
[mailto:johnstydo@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Charly Mitchel; Steve Yott; Jim Gray; Triumph 'Friends of Triumph<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My forged pistons are .006" in the hole at TDC and I
use a .030" thick solid copper head gasket and stock crank at 6200 rpm.
When removing the head, the piston tops are clean in the squish area and it
looks like a slight indentation at the ledge of the combustion chamber,
probably from piston rock when the engine is cold. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 3:23 PM, <a
href="mailto:Gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com">Gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com</a> <<a
href="mailto:Gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com" target="_blank">Gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>IN our experience with TR-4, and
English Ford Kent<br>
racing engines the safe clearance between the head<br>
and the piston crown is .035". A TR-4 with billet<br>
rods will just "touch" the head at 6800 rpm with<br>
.026" clearance. It will "hit" the head hard enough<br>
to make an imprint in the piston crown at .029"<br>
I would say that the TR-6 crank probably flexes more<br>
than a TR-4 does at high rpm. You would like to have<br>
a little safety margin, I would think. I would not<br>
run less than .035", maybe even a couple more if the<br>
engine is going to run over 6,000 rpm.<br>
<br>
<br>
Greg Solow<br>
The Engine Room<br>
Sports Car Specialists<br>
Santa Cruz, CA 95060<br>
831 429-1800<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------- Original Message -------<br>
From : Charly[mailto:<a href="mailto:charly@mitchelplumbing.com">charly@mitchelplumbing.com</a>]<br>
Sent : 5/25/2016 6:52:35 PM<br>
To : <a href="mailto:tr4@wi.rr.com">tr4@wi.rr.com</a>; <a
href="mailto:toodamnfunky@comcast.net">toodamnfunky@comcast.net</a><br>
Cc : <a href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net">fot@autox.team.net</a><br>
Subject : RE: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br>
<br>
I tried b u idling a TR6 motor with a pop-up on the<br>
piston on c e. Instead of having the pistons cut<br>
down to zero clearance I left them about .005" high.<br>
It eventually bent the rod and broken it. The<br>
pistons had an imprint of the combustion chamber on<br>
them. I learned that at 6000 rpm's, there is<br>
enough deflection in the crank to let them hit the head.<br>
I believe most head gaskets are .0035" aren't they?<br>
Charly Mitchel<br>
TR6 #44<br>
<br>
On Wed 25/05/16 11:31 AM , <a href="mailto:toodamnfunky@comcast.net">toodamnfunky@comcast.net</a>
sent:<br>
> The rattling is likely piston slap on cold forged<br>
pistons. Did it go<br>
> away when it warmed up and came back on the next<br>
cold start ?jim<br>
><br>
> -------------------------<br>
> FROM: "Steve Yott"<br>
> TO: "Robert Lang" , "FOT List"<br>
> SENT: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:27:27 AM<br>
> SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br>
> I doubt that your .030 squish would cause the<br>
rattling as you<br>
> describe. The deflection caused by the crank, rod<br>
and piston in order<br>
> to hit the head at .030 would be way up in the<br>
rpm’s like 8000!<br>
> Did the rattling go away after all the parts warmed<br>
up and oil was<br>
> well disbursed or is it still rattling? My first<br>
guess would be<br>
> either the engine was not pre-oiled or you have<br>
loose piston pin<br>
> bushings…. Were the rods rebuilt with new bushings<br>
fitted to about<br>
> .0003?<br>
> Steve Yott<br>
> FROM: Fot [ mailto:<a href="mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>
] ON<br>
BEHALF OF Robert<br>
> Lang<br>
> SENT: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:29 AM<br>
> TO: FOT List<br>
> SUBJECT: Re: [Fot] TR6 Piston / Head Clearance<br>
> Hi,<br>
> Where I was going with the query was this: I had a<br>
late block<br>
> "decked" with the intent of making the deck flat.<br>
The machinist took<br>
> of .032 to accomplish the goal. With a head gasket<br>
installed and the<br>
> head torqued, the clearance in the squish area is .030.<br>
><br>
> I had initially wanted only about .025 removed, but<br>
we had to shave<br>
> an extra .007 to get rid of the fire ring cuts.<br>
><br>
> On initial startup, the motor sounded like it might<br>
be "rattling" and<br>
> I'm trying to figure out why.<br>
><br>
> When I used a stethescope on the block, everything<br>
sounds okay - no<br>
> rapping and the valve train sounds "normal" and<br>
there were no weird<br>
> sounds coming from the crank.<br>
><br>
> I guess where I'm going with this is: if piston /<br>
head clearance is<br>
> too tight, I'll see some sort of indication on the<br>
piston, right?<br>
><br>
> TIA for any sage advice.<br>
><br>
> This is my first experience "decking" a block. I'd<br>
like to get it<br>
> right, I don't have the resources to start a new<br>
block from scratch.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Bob Lang<br>
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