[Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

Wed Feb 21 13:28:46 MST 2024

"one of the nozzles be in the engine compartment"

My manual/automatic system states (correctly) that all (both) nozzles for the system should be in the driver's compartment and pointed at the driver.
They say install a separate system for the engine bay.
How do the rules address this?

"$750 I hadn't planned to spend but hard to be spicy about safety requirements."

Where does this kind of thinking end???
Someone will always be afraid of their own shadow.
It's a business' responsibility to make as much money from the customer as possible.
When we're "racing" at no more than 10 MPH and no closer than 100 yds, will that be safe enough?

"top notch safety equipment is a cheap investment for me"

Is it possible that a rational person could come to a different conclusion?
Is it correct to force one person to abide by the conclusions of another?
(Rhetorical questions pertinent to racing, aviation, and many other areas of life.)

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 1:03 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

Note in the rule that "automatic" actuation can be used in place of the 2nd pull.  I just ordered a replacement of my FE-36 system that I previously installed to comply with SVRA regs with a new FE-36 system with one pull but also automatic actuation.  My pull is near the outside of the car (as Phil describes), might possibly comply with the "accessible to track worker" clause but I'm not banking on that.  So mine will have one manual actuation and one automatic (155 degree farenheit) actuation.  I think I had 3 years left of recertification on the old system.  $750 I hadn't planned to spend but hard to be spicy about safety requirements.

Also note the requirement that one of the nozzles be in the engine compartment - I need to replump mine to meet that requirement.

Regards, Tony Drews

On 2/21/2024 7:16 AM, vfracing--- via Fot wrote:
Hi Mark;

Agreed. skimping on these systems is not wise.

I prefer the FE-36 systems.  This is the replacement for Halon, is not subject to freezing (important here in New England with an unheated barn), and, according to the manufacturer of the gas, good "...for at least 10 years..."  In addition, as far as is known now, there are now downsides to ultimate disposal and use of FE-36.  With all the fuss about PFAS, I would not be surprised if the use of AFFF were to be banned track by track in the near future.  Unlike petroleum-based spills, AFFF mixes very well with water and migrates through the groundwater very quickly, making it impossible to recover/mitigate.

For those who (like me) are impacted by the requirement that the actuator be accessible for both the driver and a course worker/first responder, a single-pull actuator can be located outboard of the steering wheel on the dashboard, a location  accessible to both the driver and the worker/responder. 15-foot actuating pull cables are available.

Regards,

Phil

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:58:29 AM EST, Mark Cook <mecook at mindspring.com><mailto:mecook at mindspring.com> wrote:

Phil,

Good point.  You are correct and thanks for the clarification.

I tend to be more conservative to a fault (my CFO background). So, relative to how much is spent on tires, gas, oil, other consumables and basic repairs every race season, top notch safety equipment is a cheap investment for me.  And, most  important, the sanctioning body that allows me to drive and I have been married to for over 40 years,  appreciates it!

So, if going to the trouble to install a system, I might as well have it be a FIA system.

I send the valve with the bottle when serviced every two years.   They put a new sticker with dates on the bottle.

Thanks!

Mark

Sent from my Galaxy

-------- Original message --------
From: Philip Gott <vfracing at aol.com><mailto:vfracing at aol.com>
Date: 2/21/24 7:17 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Mark Cook <mecook at mindspring.com><mailto:mecook at mindspring.com>
Cc: fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

Mark;
To clarify, SCCA only recommends FIA and/or SFI certification. As the SFI recertification process is largely a joke (send a photo of your bottle and gage along with  check for $35 to the manufacturer and you get a new certification sticker by return mail) they only recommend it. They do require that the manufacturers’ service procedures be performed on the valve and actuation system, but these are neither part of the recertification process nor verifiable other than the owner’s word.
SVRA is requiring that the SFI or FIA  recertification process be followed.
Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2024, at 2:47 AM, Mark Cook via Fot <fot at autox.team.net><mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

SVRA has required a plumbed in onboard fire system since 2020 (with at least two nozzles).  With the calendar year 2020 being a grace period, it then became mandatory in 2021.  For 2024, they added additional FIA and SFI requirements to become consistent with NASA and SCCA.

Having built a car to meet SCCA, NASA and BMW Club racing requirements, would not get in a race car without a fire system.  Cheap insurance.

Just for reference, the turnaround time for re-certifying/servicing fire bottles is actually pretty quick.  I dropped my SPA Extreme Novec 1230 off at UPS on Dec 21 and had it back by Dec 30.  My Lifeline Novec 1230 was sent to Lifeline on Jan 12 and had it back by Jan 18, also by UPS ground.

Ever since Mark Petronis’ accident at NJMP in 2021, most sanctioning bodies are beefing up fire system requirements.  SVRA was a little slow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUS5tYBLycc

Mark Cook

From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ken Knight via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 5:01 PM
To: Brad Eells
Cc: FOT Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

I called my company, Safecraft, and my bottle is just beyond when they will recertify again.  So $640 and the new bottle is on order.  They were kind enough to direct me to Summit Racing where I got it cheaper than direct.  All is in stock and they are just up the 101 from me in the bay area so I should have it in plenty of time.  Systems at Pegasus were running $750-1200 if you needing the full kit with 2 pulls.  Just FYI.

It is not that I mind doing this, I witnessed a car fire during a race last year (fire suit saved the driver from injury).  It is dropping this on us at the last minute that is the problem.  I doubt they just thought up this rule last week, and possible folks within SVRA knew about this, but we did not.

I hope this does not cause problems for anyone else trying to make the K Cup and facing a long tow.

Ken

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Brad Eells<mailto:tr4abrad at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 1:37 PM
To: Ken Knight<mailto:kknight at klaenv.com>
Cc: vfracing at aol.com<mailto:vfracing at aol.com>; FOT Triumph<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

Interesting, as this may be an issue for the K-Cup this year. Running at Sonoma with SVRA 8 weeks from now.

That said, when rebuilding the Spitfire, I chose an SPA aqueous foam system with 4 distribution nozzles and 3 actuators; one outside, one on the dash and the bottle handle itself.

Brad Eells

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 20, 2024, at 3:31 PM, Ken Knight via Fot <fot at autox.team.net><mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

So with a very short time get this done, this is the New rule?  Had we known this, oh say last fall, it could have been a winter project.  Some of this is not hard but sending your system off to get a recertification could very well be a major problem in these times.  So what is the alternative, buy a new system?  Some of us have already committed to race with our home clubs in mid March, then it is a short turn around until Sonoma.  Pretty well leaves us in a major bind as far I can tell, not to mention a potential large expense.

We were encouraged to sign up for the K Cup with SVRA, plus Laguna, under the assumption that if our cars were legal in our home clubs they would be allowed to run as is.  Dropping this mandatory rule on us at the last minute does not sit well.  No one wants to be unsafe, I don’t think the rule is that unreasonable, but the timing to get this done is unreasonable.

Ken

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: vfracing--- via Fot<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 12:46 PM
To: FOT Triumph<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Heads Up! Fire System Requirements for Kastner Cup

Advanced warning:

The SVRA rules on fire systems are much more strict than SCCA and some of the other sanctioning bodies such as VRG.  Notably, plumbed in systems are required, and they must have two activation points, one accessible to the driver and the other accessible to a course worker without having to lean into the car.  Furthermore, they must be re-certified every two years.  Note that these are requirements, not recommendations, and new this year (2024)

For more detail, please see Section L of Safety Requirements at https://svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SVRA-General-Rules-1_24.pdf.

Regards,

Phil Gott

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad@gmail.com

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing@aol.com

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot/attachments/20240221/f04d8b1f/attachment.htm>