From ofracer at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 05:43:39 2023
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 07:43:39 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVY3mZ6A3xXq8gpQdOsutddpFh54e7u0Dh1rY4vCOk+_jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E21FD586-1711-4127-9DF3-BECDA5EA1625@gmail.com>
 <4B1A8502-2C08-4462-99E1-D0CA39D14268@icloud.com>
 <CAO0FjVY3mZ6A3xXq8gpQdOsutddpFh54e7u0Dh1rY4vCOk+_jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVa4L+DvctVPB5tFsCyc6=8AZ=k=5N3_dih15Lg6YEVj+w@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 7:42?AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>


On the Triumph's I have with alloy covers, I glue the gasket to the block
with black RTV sealant and leave the cover side glue free. Doing it this
way, you build a dike of gasket material around the flat head surface that
holds oil in, even with the cover off. Clean the block with a solvent, put
the RTV on the gasket (works with all kinds) and use the cover to hold it
in place for 24hrs (overkill) to make sure the RTV has cured. After that,
the gasket stays in place for years and the oil stays in the engine.

mike h

On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 11:28?PM Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I do this. Works great.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 31, 2023, at 19:41, J Wagner via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> ?
> Speaking from my experience when I used to make custom silicone valve
> cover gaskets for the stock covers?
>
> <image.png>
>
> If I had an alloy cover and a flat silicone gasket? I would clean the
> cover mating surface and glue the gasket to the cover with a generous bead
> ? and either set it on a very flat surface or on the engine?  and either
> put a couple pounds of weight on top of it or screw the cover down a tad.
>
> You can clean up any initial squeeze out with Q-tips.
>
> Let the silicone cure 24 hours.
>
> Then just bolt down to your preferred torque.
>
> this serves two purposes?.
>
> 1.  It will help the gasket resist popping out from heat expansion or from
> pressure..
>
> 2.  It will make it very reusable by only attaching itself to the cover
> and easier to replace as remnants of an old silicone can be removed on a
> bench rather than scraping the head.
>
> This all said?. Do hear out the opinions of fellow racers that sport alloy
> covers.
>
> ?Justin
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2023, at 1:38 PM, Doug Mitchell via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> In the attempt to get my Spitfire back on the road this year, I changed
> the oil and filter. As I was pouring oil in, I noticed that oil was pouring
> out at the back of the valve cover. Since I have an alloy valve cover, I
> ordered a silicon gasket.
>
> Any recommendations as to a sealant to keep the oil inside the valve
> cover? Or is that gasket going to be enough?
>
> Regards,
> Doug Mitchell
> dbm.spitfire at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/4msonset at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3 at icloud.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From sjanzen at me.com  Fri Sep  1 06:51:17 2023
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 08:51:17 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Jack Madison
Message-ID: <FAD2FEBD-81EC-4403-B41D-623D14BC89B0@me.com>

Hi, does anyone know how to get in touch with Jack Madison?
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 07:15:02 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 08:15:02 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Jack Madison
In-Reply-To: <FAD2FEBD-81EC-4403-B41D-623D14BC89B0@me.com>
References: <FAD2FEBD-81EC-4403-B41D-623D14BC89B0@me.com>
Message-ID: <1F7D1FD3-2815-450C-85F3-5DAB6D0D2EF5@gmail.com>

I looked at Catawba Island Marine for Jack Madison.   Safari.

Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


> On Sep 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi, does anyone know how to get in touch with Jack Madison?_______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
> 
> 

From tedtsimx at bright.net  Fri Sep  1 07:17:10 2023
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 09:17:10 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>

Use wheel bearing grease on cylinder head mating surface. Easy to lift 
valve cover and a quick wipe to reseal gasket to head.? Any good sealant 
to bond gasket to valve cover. Ted


On 8/31/2023 3:07 PM, Doug Mitchell via Fot wrote:
> In the attempt to get my Spitfire back on the road this year, I 
> changed the oil and filter. As I was pouring oil in, I noticed that 
> oil was pouring out at the back of the valve cover. Since I have an 
> alloy valve cover, I ordered a silicon gasket.
>
> Any recommendations as to a sealant to keep the oil inside the valve 
> cover? Or is that gasket going to be enough?
>
> Regards,
> Doug Mitchell
> dbm.spitfire at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tedtsimx at bright.net
>
>


-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
305 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 07:31:01 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 08:31:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Silicone Valve Cover Gaskets.
Message-ID: <79F69A03-366F-4D5A-9947-FAEC45252C79@gmail.com>

Using Black or Red Silicone Gasket Sealant on one side of gasket.

Allow to cure overnight or 24 hours.

Low torque application.  (Crushing the gasket breaks the seal)

Our TR4 remains leak free after nine years.

Once Installed, Remove & Replace valve cover.   That?s all. 

Cure time and low torque application is the key to success.



Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


From tony.sheach at live.co.uk  Fri Sep  1 08:14:57 2023
From: tony.sheach at live.co.uk (Tony Sheach)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 14:14:57 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
References: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
Message-ID: <DU0P190MB18280402D4DE2B594A5F5D62C8E4A@DU0P190MB1828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Ted

I?m using neoprene o ring seals in some new billet valve covers that I?ve had made and they are absolutely terrific, reseal nicely after multiple on / offs and no muck to get down the push rod tubes etc. I think that?s the way forward.

Regards

Tony

Sent from my iPad

On 1 Sep 2023, at 15:07, Ted Schumacher via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?
Use wheel bearing grease on cylinder head mating surface. Easy to lift valve cover and a quick wipe to reseal gasket to head.  Any good sealant to bond gasket to valve cover. Ted


On 8/31/2023 3:07 PM, Doug Mitchell via Fot wrote:
In the attempt to get my Spitfire back on the road this year, I changed the oil and filter. As I was pouring oil in, I noticed that oil was pouring out at the back of the valve cover. Since I have an alloy valve cover, I ordered a silicon gasket.

Any recommendations as to a sealant to keep the oil inside the valve cover? Or is that gasket going to be enough?

Regards,
Doug Mitchell
dbm.spitfire at gmail.com<mailto:dbm.spitfire at gmail.com>



_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tedtsimx at bright.net






--
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net<mailto:tedtsimx at bright.net>
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com<http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/>
305 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony.sheach at live.co.uk


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From n197tr4 at cs.com  Fri Sep  1 08:32:37 2023
From: n197tr4 at cs.com (JOSEPH ALEXANDER)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 09:32:37 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Happy Sails.  The Kas Kastner Legacy
References: <F2C12E77-B175-4A71-AA84-1F5B640E6827.ref@cs.com>
Message-ID: <F2C12E77-B175-4A71-AA84-1F5B640E6827@cs.com>

FOT,

Kas had a significant on the Sailing Community. He was a National Champion in Single Handed Sailboats while racing off the coast of California.  He was in his 40s and his competition was mostly in their 20s.  But he was smarter.

Such was his influence, he was approached to be a  consulted on new designs, by Catalina, I believe. Someday, I hope to share some anecdotal information Kas? Sailing Career. (If the FOT has anything to share, please submit to the group).

In the meantime, I am looking forward to Curt Johnson laying the keel on an informal group honoring Kas? success in sailing.  I think it will be known as, ?The Kastner Cup Sailing Society?. Stay tuned.

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We now have Kas? Artifacts residing with the British Sports Car Hall of Fame Museum and artifacts from the Nissan Years at Nissan Corporate (USA).  I have not yet found a home for his sailing trophies.  But will, eventually.

Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Fri Sep  1 09:43:09 2023
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04)
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 11:43:09 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <DU0P190MB18280402D4DE2B594A5F5D62C8E4A@DU0P190MB1828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
 <DU0P190MB18280402D4DE2B594A5F5D62C8E4A@DU0P190MB1828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <e5e1ef146ddd6c7c680e24409e51d89a@tr4racer.com>

I did the same as Tony with one of the widely available cast aluminum 
valve covers for the TR3/4. Had my machinist cut a groove and I stuffed 
a long o-ring in. I'd bet that was 15+ years ago, never had to replace 
the o-ring and it seals perfectly after countless on/offs. On the 6 
cylinder, I use the stock cork valve cover gasket glued to a cast 
aluminium valve cover, works perfectly as well.

I do like the silicone valve cover gaskets on stock valve covers that do 
not appreciate being torqued excessively.

On 2023-09-01 10:14, Tony Sheach via Fot wrote:

I'm using neoprene o ring seals in some new billet valve covers that 
I've had made and they are absolutely terrific, reseal nicely after 
multiple on / offs and no muck to get down the push rod tubes etc. I 
think that's the way forward.

From walje at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep  1 10:39:55 2023
From: walje at sbcglobal.net (DENNIS WALJE)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
References: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
Message-ID: <941264ED-2271-4CD8-AB88-D09089652B15@sbcglobal.net>

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From tamaracktomtr3 at aol.com  Fri Sep  1 11:14:10 2023
From: tamaracktomtr3 at aol.com (tamaracktomtr3)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 13:14:10 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Jack Madison
In-Reply-To: <1F7D1FD3-2815-450C-85F3-5DAB6D0D2EF5@gmail.com>
References: <1F7D1FD3-2815-450C-85F3-5DAB6D0D2EF5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE652780-7D55-4ED1-91A0-BDEF88CF7481@aol.com>

Try going through The Catawba Island Club in Port Clinton Ohio.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Joe Alexander via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I looked at Catawba Island Marine for Jack Madison.   Safari.
> 
> Joe Alexander
> 4505 Donald Dr
> Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> The-vintage-racer.com
> Gasketinnovations.com
> Cell:  319.464.4711
> 
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi, does anyone know how to get in touch with Jack Madison?_______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tamaracktomtr3 at aol.com
> 
> 


From walje at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep  1 11:39:05 2023
From: walje at sbcglobal.net (DENNIS WALJE)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:39:05 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
References: <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
Message-ID: <A6593FB2-427B-46FA-9DBD-E135D3A4590E@sbcglobal.net>

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From sjanzen at me.com  Fri Sep  1 12:36:07 2023
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 14:36:07 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Jack Madison
In-Reply-To: <AE652780-7D55-4ED1-91A0-BDEF88CF7481@aol.com>
References: <AE652780-7D55-4ED1-91A0-BDEF88CF7481@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3384C78D-3845-407D-9852-DA52159FA6F6@me.com>

Thx

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2023, at 1:14 PM, tamaracktomtr3 <tamaracktomtr3 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Try going through The Catawba Island Club in Port Clinton Ohio.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Joe Alexander via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I looked at Catawba Island Marine for Jack Madison.   Safari.
>> 
>> Joe Alexander
>> 4505 Donald Dr
>> Cedar Falls, IA 50613
>> The-vintage-racer.com
>> Gasketinnovations.com
>> Cell:  319.464.4711
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2023, at 7:54 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Hi, does anyone know how to get in touch with Jack Madison?_______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tamaracktomtr3 at aol.com
>> 
>> 
> 

From dbm.spitfire at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 12:57:13 2023
From: dbm.spitfire at gmail.com (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 14:57:13 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGctxs4SfzftDeqt338767bgZus_PaoJQ8qDPKjTPcDBD1=EOA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the suggestions. It turns out that it was supplied through
Little British Car Co./Moss, and it is a Gasket Innovations gasket. Picked
it up as well as some Permatex gasket sealant this morning, and am now
waiting the suggested 24 hours.

Regards,
Doug Mitchell
dbm.spitfire at gmail.com

On Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 3:07 PM Doug Mitchell <dbm.spitfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> In the attempt to get my Spitfire back on the road this year, I changed
> the oil and filter. As I was pouring oil in, I noticed that oil was pouring
> out at the back of the valve cover. Since I have an alloy valve cover, I
> ordered a silicon gasket.
>
> Any recommendations as to a sealant to keep the oil inside the valve
> cover? Or is that gasket going to be enough?
>
> Regards,
> Doug Mitchell
> dbm.spitfire at gmail.com
>
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From dbm.spitfire at gmail.com  Fri Sep  1 12:59:10 2023
From: dbm.spitfire at gmail.com (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 14:59:10 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK3 hood/bonnet
In-Reply-To: <CAGctxs4E90GMi2Bb_YiS76VcnJyMxS3+ZJV+b8QvLwyuuqMDgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGctxs4E90GMi2Bb_YiS76VcnJyMxS3+ZJV+b8QvLwyuuqMDgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGctxs48ufr1LAzJ8m18h6O-5mRBGBe8EpxedtE1jR4T1Gn1nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all, Team Triumph had one and they came to an agreement on price

Regards,
Doug Mitchell
dbm.spitfire at gmail.com

On Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 10:56 AM Doug Mitchell <dbm.spitfire at gmail.com> wrote:

> I friend of a friend had an accident the other day in his MK3 Spit.
> Damaged the hood. Insurance will repair the car, but he is in need of a
> hood. Street car, so metal is required. He is in Western Michigan. Let me
> know and I will pass on contact info.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Mitchell
> dbm.spitfire at gmail.com
>
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From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep  1 17:37:02 2023
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 23:37:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 on BringATrailer
References: <660205150.3959901.1693611422701.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <660205150.3959901.1693611422701@mail.yahoo.com>

FWIW my TR6 some-assembly-required project car is now live on BaT.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-triumph-tr6-100/
Thanks,Gary Schneider
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Fri Sep  1 18:42:35 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 17:42:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] Valve cover gasket sealant
In-Reply-To: <e5e1ef146ddd6c7c680e24409e51d89a@tr4racer.com>
References: <CAGctxs4BGty-4+gCF18AnrdvPx3YUwRa9rRV5Mjoz=rZUgaa6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <6a791be3-4c46-64aa-ace6-c068e90c43a9@bright.net>
 <DU0P190MB18280402D4DE2B594A5F5D62C8E4A@DU0P190MB1828.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <e5e1ef146ddd6c7c680e24409e51d89a@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <563463480.156120.1693615355665@connect.xfinity.com>

I glued, (Gaskacinch), a cork gasket on to an alloy cover from Moss in 2012 and it is still on there.  Never had a leak. 

Dave H. 

> On 09/01/2023 8:43 AM PDT yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
>  
> I did the same as Tony with one of the widely available cast aluminum 
> valve covers for the TR3/4. Had my machinist cut a groove and I stuffed 
> a long o-ring in. I'd bet that was 15+ years ago, never had to replace 
> the o-ring and it seals perfectly after countless on/offs. On the 6 
> cylinder, I use the stock cork valve cover gasket glued to a cast 
> aluminium valve cover, works perfectly as well.
> 
> I do like the silicone valve cover gaskets on stock valve covers that do 
> not appreciate being torqued excessively.
> 
> On 2023-09-01 10:14, Tony Sheach via Fot wrote:
> 
> I'm using neoprene o ring seals in some new billet valve covers that 
> I've had made and they are absolutely terrific, reseal nicely after 
> multiple on / offs and no muck to get down the push rod tubes etc. I 
> think that's the way forward.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net

From lunkercars at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  1 21:38:44 2023
From: lunkercars at yahoo.com (Greg Hilyer)
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 21:38:44 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Happy Sails.  The Kas Kastner Legacy
References: <407C2C74-D8EF-4D95-ACE2-57EA3A57EAEF.ref@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <407C2C74-D8EF-4D95-ACE2-57EA3A57EAEF@yahoo.com>

?Joe, Curt and all,
How cool to see the KCSS come together!
Just one more reason I?ll always be proud to be considered a FoT. 
Joe - Is that display photo of your/Kas? boat?
I?m a relative neophyte when it comes to performance hull architecture (steep learning curve) but is that a Lapworth design? - profile looks familiar.
Connie, Theo ?The Monkey Dog? and I are headed out on Monday to ?Mirage? in Puget Sound for some time in the San Juan Islands. Pics for anyone interested ?.
Best,
Greg ?Lunker? Hilyer
TR4 #314
Cal3-30
Albuquerque NM

And a P.S. -
Am I confusing my hero?s or did Kas also consult/contribute to a America?s Cup effort (late ?70s/early?80s)?

> On Sep 1, 2023, at 9:53 AM, JOSEPH ALEXANDER via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?FOT,
> 
> Kas had a significant on the Sailing Community. He was a National Champion in Single Handed Sailboats while racing off the coast of California.  He was in his 40s and his competition was mostly in their 20s.  But he was smarter.
> 
> Such was his influence, he was approached to be a  consulted on new designs, by Catalina, I believe. Someday, I hope to share some anecdotal information Kas? Sailing Career. (If the FOT has anything to share, please submit to the group).
> 
> In the meantime, I am looking forward to Curt Johnson laying the keel on an informal group honoring Kas? success in sailing.  I think it will be known as, ?The Kastner Cup Sailing Society?. Stay tuned.
> 
> <image0.jpeg>
> 
> 
> We now have Kas? Artifacts residing with the British Sports Car Hall of Fame Museum and artifacts from the Nissan Years at Nissan Corporate (USA).  I have not yet found a home for his sailing trophies.  But will, eventually.
> 
> Joe Alexander
> 4505 Donald Dr
> Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> The-vintage-racer.com
> Gasketinnovations.com
> Cell:  319.464.4711
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/lunkercars at yahoo.com


From continuedlegacy1 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  2 08:19:38 2023
From: continuedlegacy1 at gmail.com (Shawn Frank)
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2023 09:19:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup 2023 P23 - P35 hi rez
Message-ID: <CAJRV2ebVpE5VyrMeDbZAVf-Gi3yf8ucB2yiZLRqHWVNGZxU-+g@mail.gmail.com>

Kastner Cup 2023 P23 to P35 in high resolution

Below are links to my photos of the rest of the Kastner Cup field in hi-rez
P23 - P35. Also included are shots of some of the cars that were unable to
start. These same photos have all been shared to Facebook with a race
report for each driver, although Facebook dulls the resolution of photos.

The below links have my photos in high resolution, separated per driver so
you can blow them up and print them, if you'd like. You are welcome to
download photos of your car and you have my written permission to print
them for individual use. Please do not use my photos for profit of any kind.

The 2023 Kastner Cup coverage has been all over Facebook and Instagram and
my photos have been viewed by tens of thousands of people from my page
North American Triumphs as well as shared to many, many pages on Facebook.
I have also sent articles of the Kastner Cup coverage to Vintage
Motorsports as well as Classic Motorsports. Let me know if you see those
articles.

P23 Tim Slater
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8ppq5ufs6swy1x71bp8fj/h?rlkey=3rccqxdj78wp0b0rbvhq67bji&dl=0

P24 Brian McEldowney
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/27awsywlhey5mgfja2ps5/h?rlkey=m8vub5z0b44u3b9v6qcpul3hv&dl=0

P25 Steve Myers
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/16vg7r0rj9dd1c7lin4ur/h?rlkey=rztoxsx612lrnq1g11xcnebc7&dl=0

P26 Brendan Alexander
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/pjw6im76k3ovjlijjdnk2/h?rlkey=qq0pys37xzeq7zob7oqmcg91i&dl=0

P27 Jesse Darrow
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/uznzvjvuxvu7yk1cqrvcz/h?rlkey=9a7ijnbsd0y40a5rw86mt7odb&dl=0

P28 Bryan Brazelton
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/p23ixqda38ogfka8rt042/h?rlkey=6yfwe4pdmn0v8cv15aspefz3y&dl=0

P29 Erik Jacobsen
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/3gef2t0pzk7gtkzcmdyoa/h?rlkey=ycn5rz7kt3x5vj9fq7efbgqrn&dl=0

P30 Mike Harmuth
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/vvgggrum5cgk4hh271di1/h?rlkey=eqbsponbo4dvzfflvygpa9j77&dl=0

P31 Tom Reiss
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/uwgk98j5gdnqtky2tnbbv/h?rlkey=jajpymzd82xt4ngir92945pcr&dl=0

P32 Dave Riddle
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/z636ifnwy4gu1oa23rmzc/h?rlkey=zlu2ho1z8lb2ubrwn8r53onrp&dl=0

P33 Karen Menne-Jacobsen
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/56k4sw741f7dhe6vnclkv/h?rlkey=zvox3f7iye3gjblizpr20psuz&dl=0

P34 David Gott
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/4ng42jaijm6uyz90qrnso/h?rlkey=4qpc1ados2honbt8fct9yq8kb&dl=0

P35 Henry Morrison
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/3fn4jo8jfcqwn2eck9q6b/h?rlkey=vindjf25j9v36e7m20d0uo2z4&dl=0

DNS
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kc244d7d00t7oqgt6dskn/h?rlkey=5fy8q4z0qn974vjd8mveymz1t&dl=0

DNS Pat Darrow
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/lfzb22bx12330gyh7ajtl/h?rlkey=tilkz90v02mdl3kvdocq3e624&dl=0

*Shawn Frank*



*The Vintage Triumph Magazine - EditorNorth American Triumphs (FKA Spitfire
& GT6 Magazine) - OwnerContinued Legacy Photo - OwnerIowa British Car
ClubFriends of Triumph - Media515-339-4228'71 Triumph Spitfire MKIV
"Gertrude"*
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From donhav2b at gmail.com  Tue Sep  5 09:58:00 2023
From: donhav2b at gmail.com (Donn Sopp)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 11:58:00 -0400
Subject: [Fot] It's Time
Message-ID: <CABW-u-PSFj41fATfemFShb_9DQeoUZ=2TqCgbJiQk_i-B1Zcag@mail.gmail.com>

Hello FOT,
For the safety of myself and those around me, it's time to let someone
else pilot the Spitfire racer. After almost thirty years of building great
memories and acquaintances, the next chapter is to start. I'd like to get
fitted for a squirrel suit and experience speed, without risk to others
or property.
PM me for details of a package or part of it.
Donn Sopp
66 Spitfire with trailer and 24' RV
(all vintage items)
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Tue Sep  5 11:02:51 2023
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2023 17:02:51 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Put-In-Bay?
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB455209B92046C724F7E19B2BE1E8A@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Are any FOTs headed past Wisconsin on their way to the race at Put-In-Bay on Sept. 19-21?  I have a differential that needs delivery there.

Scott (B.)
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From peterkbulkowski at gmail.com  Wed Sep  6 09:37:12 2023
From: peterkbulkowski at gmail.com (Peter Bulkowski)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 11:37:12 -0400
Subject: [Fot] It's Time
In-Reply-To: <CABW-u-PSFj41fATfemFShb_9DQeoUZ=2TqCgbJiQk_i-B1Zcag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABW-u-PSFj41fATfemFShb_9DQeoUZ=2TqCgbJiQk_i-B1Zcag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJHO_irtZ7b2q67dgJiVE7x=yuiyryb6t2C_LMh1i2uJrRa88A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Donn it was nice meeting you at Mosport and Watkins Glen over the last
few years you will enjoy retirement from road racing since it is a lot of
work and commitment
I wish you all the best and hope you will find a new keeper for the spitfire
Cheers Peter

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 4:38 AM Donn Sopp via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Hello FOT,
> For the safety of myself and those around me, it's time to let someone
> else pilot the Spitfire racer. After almost thirty years of building great
> memories and acquaintances, the next chapter is to start. I'd like to get
> fitted for a squirrel suit and experience speed, without risk to others
> or property.
> PM me for details of a package or part of it.
> Donn Sopp
> 66 Spitfire with trailer and 24' RV
> (all vintage items)
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/peterkbulkowski at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From n197tr4 at cs.com  Wed Sep  6 10:19:40 2023
From: n197tr4 at cs.com (JOSEPH ALEXANDER)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 11:19:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] REPLACEMENT  Front Engine Plates.  Just a reminder.  TR3, TR4,
 Morgan, TR6
References: <2CD04DAE-DBC2-43F9-8A82-8949A843C3C6.ref@cs.com>
Message-ID: <2CD04DAE-DBC2-43F9-8A82-8949A843C3C6@cs.com>


If you are rebuilding this winter, and have a bent plate, or are converting a wet sleeve block to another model.  Precision aluminum manufacturing at 1/3rd the weight.  FOT Pricing.
We have been manufacturing these for over 10 years.  


Kas said he made them, too. Then painted them black to pass tech.  ?

Thanks,
Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711

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From terrysopher at gmail.com  Thu Sep  7 17:25:28 2023
From: terrysopher at gmail.com (Terry Sopher)
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 19:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Beware: Spitfire Cranks & Parts
Message-ID: <F457099C-5B12-44C0-8F28-0245345058C0@gmail.com>

FOT Spitfire Racers,

Beware of Crankshafts from Kurtis Johnson/Dean Johnson of MN!

Two of us FOT members bought ?fully serviced? small journal crankshafts for 1296 race engine builds from Kurtis Johnson (Son of Dean Johnson, former Spitfire SCCA racer).

Both Don & I experienced crankshaft failure leading to catastrophic engine failure on very low hour engines.  Upon inspection, the crankshafts were improperly ground, leaving a sharp step right at the radius - right where they cracked!

Kurtis is liquidating Dean?s huge repository of Spitfire Race parts - Cranks, blocks, NOS camshafts and much more.  My and Don?s experience with him was generally ok, but not always good?on a few items, he substituted lesser quality/worthless used parts from what he originally pictured, but made it right after he was called out?

I contacted Kurtis after the engine tear down reveled the crankshaft failure & root cause of my engine failure and told him that he shouldn?t sell any more of those cranks and certainly should warn a perspective buyers first.  He said he would see what he had left and if he had any more would let any buyers know.  He also, unsolicited, offered to make it right for Don & me, but then retracted the offer saying ?that?s racing?.

If you bought a crank from him - have the radius grind checked!   

Best, Terry, 
#64 Spitfire Racer
?66 TR4A
?68 Spitfire 
?68 TR250

From kknight at klaenv.com  Fri Sep  8 06:57:10 2023
From: kknight at klaenv.com (Ken Knight)
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 05:57:10 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Beware: Spitfire Cranks & Parts
In-Reply-To: <F457099C-5B12-44C0-8F28-0245345058C0@gmail.com>
References: <F457099C-5B12-44C0-8F28-0245345058C0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.10.1694177841.2708.fot@autox.team.net>

Found this problem on a street motor I was building, with reground crank, for a TR-4.  A good practice for us all is to add this item to checklist for rebuilding engines.  It is easy to forget to look at the many details that can bite you in the backside.  A good shop would have stood behind the screw up, crank grinders, good ones understand this issue.

Ken

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Terry Sopher via Fot
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2023 5:29 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] Beware: Spitfire Cranks & Parts

FOT Spitfire Racers,

Beware of Crankshafts from Kurtis Johnson/Dean Johnson of MN!

Two of us FOT members bought ?fully serviced? small journal crankshafts for 1296 race engine builds from Kurtis Johnson (Son of Dean Johnson, former Spitfire SCCA racer).

Both Don & I experienced crankshaft failure leading to catastrophic engine failure on very low hour engines.  Upon inspection, the crankshafts were improperly ground, leaving a sharp step right at the radius - right where they cracked!

Kurtis is liquidating Dean?s huge repository of Spitfire Race parts - Cranks, blocks, NOS camshafts and much more.  My and Don?s experience with him was generally ok, but not always good?on a few items, he substituted lesser quality/worthless used parts from what he originally pictured, but made it right after he was called out?

I contacted Kurtis after the engine tear down reveled the crankshaft failure & root cause of my engine failure and told him that he shouldn?t sell any more of those cranks and certainly should warn a perspective buyers first.  He said he would see what he had left and if he had any more would let any buyers know.  He also, unsolicited, offered to make it right for Don & me, but then retracted the offer saying ?that?s racing?.

If you bought a crank from him - have the radius grind checked!   

Best, Terry, 
#64 Spitfire Racer
?66 TR4A
?68 Spitfire 
?68 TR250
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kknight at klaenv.com



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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 10 16:43:31 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 22:43:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Stock Head Gasket - Sealant?
References: <602896645.7655208.1694385811261.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <602896645.7655208.1694385811261@mail.yahoo.com>

It has been many years since I installed a stock head gasket on a TR-3/TR-4 engine.? I'm helping a friend with his TR engine.? It is a stock rebuild and we are using a stock head gasket.? Does anyone have any recent experience with stock head gasket sealants?? Should we use a sealant, or install it dry?? If using a sealant, which one would you recommend?
While I am at it, let me also ask about rear crank seals.? I understand there are some new ones available since my race car days.? I'd be interested in any recommendations you might have.? Use a new stock rear seal?? Or, is there a better option now?
Thanks for your recommendations.
Jack Wheeler
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Mon Sep 11 06:58:25 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 12:58:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Stock Head Gasket - Sealant?
In-Reply-To: <602896645.7655208.1694385811261@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <602896645.7655208.1694385811261.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <602896645.7655208.1694385811261@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <846643300.7882434.1694437105994@mail.yahoo.com>

 Jack many modern gaskets are coated with a sealant that melts/seals when the engine gets heat in it.When in doubt, I grab the copper-coat.I have good luck with the Land Rover split seal, although the alloy housings sometimes have to be machined for a good concentric fit in the block.
Glen Efinger

    On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 07:20:15 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 It has been many years since I installed a stock head gasket on a TR-3/TR-4 engine.? I'm helping a friend with his TR engine.? It is a stock rebuild and we are using a stock head gasket.? Does anyone have any recent experience with stock head gasket sealants?? Should we use a sealant, or install it dry?? If using a sealant, which one would you recommend?
While I am at it, let me also ask about rear crank seals.? I understand there are some new ones available since my race car days.? I'd be interested in any recommendations you might have.? Use a new stock rear seal?? Or, is there a better option now?
Thanks for your recommendations.
Jack Wheeler
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com


  
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 13 06:35:13 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:35:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Thanks
References: <1808296426.901038.1694608513647.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1808296426.901038.1694608513647@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to all of you who sent me suggestions for sealing a stock TR-3/TR-4 head gasket, and also for your suggestions regarding rear crank seal options.? I am meeting with my friend next week and will review these suggestions with him.? This will allow us to make an informed decision based on the expertise and experience of this group.
Thanks again.
Jack
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From Dave at microworks.net  Thu Sep 14 09:07:06 2023
From: Dave at microworks.net (Dave Riddle)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 08:07:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <1546806364.724555.1694662622371@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <12880098.25060.1694472900080.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <12880098.25060.1694472900080@mail.yahoo.com>
 <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B5E7@mainserver>
 <1546806364.724555.1694662622371@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>

I would like to have Ken added to the List since the rules changed and they do not need to be ?Nominated?


Dave Riddle
dave at microworks.net
602.692.5276

From: Ken Hollar [mailto:krhollar at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 8:37 PM
To: Dave Riddle
Subject: Re: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area

Dave,

I am looking at what tech specs in need to satisfy to race with moderns sanctioning bodies.  VARA, SVRA, SCCA, etc.

I am going to a VARA event at Buttonwillow Sept 23rd.  I will ask around then.

I am looking for suspension, fire protection and fuel cell help.  I am using a TR4A engine with an overdrive trans, H6 carbs, header, oil cooler, custom radiator moved forward, Corvette cooling expansion tank, catch can and electric fan.  I do not know what rear end gears are yet.  Standard brake setup. Panhard gear in the rear.  A homemade crankcase vapor catch can is included.  It is barbaric, but should work.

I sent photos.

Did you go to Triumphest in Northern California last weekend?

Thanks for your help.

Ken Hollar
4797 Neblina Drive
Carlsbad, Ca. 92008
408-655-7569


On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 04:00:19 PM PDT, Dave Riddle <dave at microworks.net<mailto:dave at microworks.net>> wrote:


Be happy to help with advice.  Your biggest help is gonna be from the FOT.  Not seeing you are a Member on that listserv.  Be happy to nominate you for inclusion.



Got any photos of the car?  Probably be some members of FOT that might remember the car.





Dave Riddle
dave at microworks.net<mailto:dave at microworks.net>

602.692.5276



From: Ken Hollar [mailto:krhollar at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:55 PM
To: Dave Riddle
Subject: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area



Hi Dave,



I am restoring a rescued 1958 TR3A Race car that has not seen the track since 1979 at Riverside.  It was raced in Southern California with SCCA and CalClub events.



I bought it rom a guy who built it and raced it in the 1970s.  It had been garaged continually ever since.  It has period correct performance equipment installed.



The log books have been disposed of, however I was able to obtain information to recreate the log book from a group at Watkins Glen.



I could use some advice and tips on more current enhancements.



I am not a racer, however I have been an avid race fan all of my life.  I drive a restored 1966 TR4A.



I want to return this car to the track, where it belongs.



I am an member of both the San Diego, and L.A. Triumph Clubs and regularly attend VARA events.



Please let me know if you are willing to assist with advice or tips,



Thanks,



Ken Hollar

408-655-7569



PS: I pulled your name from the FOT website and an old Triumph Trumpeter from 2011
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 10:09:11 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 11:09:11 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
References: <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
Message-ID: <4C571E8F-B835-4BAE-854E-15D4B4D4DEB4@gmail.com>

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From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Sep 14 11:39:17 2023
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 11:39:17 -0600
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
References: <12880098.25060.1694472900080.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <12880098.25060.1694472900080@mail.yahoo.com>
 <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B5E7@mainserver>
 <1546806364.724555.1694662622371@mail.yahoo.com>
 <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
Message-ID: <ab33a578-16cb-33b9-9afc-73e89e530a93@bradakis.com>

Okay, he's on the list.  Welcome aboard, Ken!

mjb.


From tarch1961935 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 12:09:05 2023
From: tarch1961935 at gmail.com (tarch1961935 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:09:05 -0400
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
References: <12880098.25060.1694472900080.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <12880098.25060.1694472900080@mail.yahoo.com>
 <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B5E7@mainserver>
 <1546806364.724555.1694662622371@mail.yahoo.com>
 <735A05A60CF77F41BDE2723965DAFA650A3ED045B604@mainserver>
Message-ID: <024501d9e736$8c8384e0$a58a8ea0$@gmail.com>

Dave,

I recently sold ?ole #196 to my son, Richard IV. He is turning it into a real racecar. Over a period of about 15 years I drove it to something like 45 races and picked up 32 trophies. Hauling my pit bike (the Triumph Trident 750) to Daytona, VIR or Mid-Ohio was something of it own challenge. 

But, alas, it?s time for me to pass the baton. Which brings me to the point, how do I get son-Richard on the FOT list? My enrollment goes back to the Uncle Jack days, so it?s also time for me to retire off the list. 

If you run into Joe Alexander, tell him to Amazon a copy of ?15 of the 16 ?Dumbest Things I?ve Ever Done in an Airplane.? As an old pilot and?ll get a kick out of it. 

Thank you for your help.

Richard

T A Y L O R   A R C H I T E C T U R E

                T h e   S t o v e    W o r k s

                      116 Krog Street

             ATLANTA, GEORGIA, 30307

                taylor-architecture.com

                    <mailto:tarch at bellsouth.net> tarch at bellsouth.net

                       (404) 660-4920

 

 

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Dave Riddle via Fot
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 11:07 AM
To: Dave Riddle via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area

 

I would like to have Ken added to the List since the rules changed and they do not need to be ?Nominated?

 

 

Dave Riddle

dave at microworks.net <mailto:dave at microworks.net> 

602.692.5276

 

From: Ken Hollar [mailto:krhollar at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 8:37 PM
To: Dave Riddle
Subject: Re: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area

 

Dave,

 

I am looking at what tech specs in need to satisfy to race with moderns sanctioning bodies.  VARA, SVRA, SCCA, etc.

 

I am going to a VARA event at Buttonwillow Sept 23rd.  I will ask around then.

 

I am looking for suspension, fire protection and fuel cell help.  I am using a TR4A engine with an overdrive trans, H6 carbs, header, oil cooler, custom radiator moved forward, Corvette cooling expansion tank, catch can and electric fan.  I do not know what rear end gears are yet.  Standard brake setup. Panhard gear in the rear.  A homemade crankcase vapor catch can is included.  It is barbaric, but should work.

 

I sent photos.

 

Did you go to Triumphest in Northern California last weekend?

 

Thanks for your help.  

 

Ken Hollar

4797 Neblina Drive

Carlsbad, Ca. 92008

408-655-7569

 

 

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 04:00:19 PM PDT, Dave Riddle <dave at microworks.net <mailto:dave at microworks.net> > wrote: 

 

Be happy to help with advice.  Your biggest help is gonna be from the FOT.  Not seeing you are a Member on that listserv.  Be happy to nominate you for inclusion.

 

Got any photos of the car?  Probably be some members of FOT that might remember the car.

 

 

Dave Riddle

dave at microworks.net <mailto:dave at microworks.net> 

602.692.5276

 

From: Ken Hollar [mailto:krhollar at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 3:55 PM
To: Dave Riddle
Subject: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area

 

Hi Dave,

 

I am restoring a rescued 1958 TR3A Race car that has not seen the track since 1979 at Riverside.  It was raced in Southern California with SCCA and CalClub events.

 

I bought it rom a guy who built it and raced it in the 1970s.  It had been garaged continually ever since.  It has period correct performance equipment installed. 

 

The log books have been disposed of, however I was able to obtain information to recreate the log book from a group at Watkins Glen.  

 

I could use some advice and tips on more current enhancements.  

 

I am not a racer, however I have been an avid race fan all of my life.  I drive a restored 1966 TR4A.

 

I want to return this car to the track, where it belongs.

 

I am an member of both the San Diego, and L.A. Triumph Clubs and regularly attend VARA events.

 

Please let me know if you are willing to assist with advice or tips,

 

Thanks,

 

Ken Hollar

408-655-7569

 

PS: I pulled your name from the FOT website and an old Triumph Trumpeter from 2011

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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 13:23:22 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:23:22 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FW: TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <024501d9e736$8c8384e0$a58a8ea0$@gmail.com>
References: <024501d9e736$8c8384e0$a58a8ea0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E1091B0-F62A-4A69-A74D-AEBEB2ED4E47@gmail.com>

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From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 14 14:01:32 2023
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (DENNIS DELAP)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 15:01:32 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Indy Mag
References: <F6E1F0A1-D63C-4A4F-8C7E-8867E02F292C.ref@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <F6E1F0A1-D63C-4A4F-8C7E-8867E02F292C@sbcglobal.net>

A M I C I
Does anyone have an Indy Mag  -
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15?x4 1/2?to sell?
Thanks 
Dennis 

Sent from my iPhone

From jeffsnook01 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 14 14:46:44 2023
From: jeffsnook01 at gmail.com (jeffsnook01 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 16:46:44 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Indy Mag
In-Reply-To: <F6E1F0A1-D63C-4A4F-8C7E-8867E02F292C@sbcglobal.net>
References: <F6E1F0A1-D63C-4A4F-8C7E-8867E02F292C.ref@sbcglobal.net>
 <F6E1F0A1-D63C-4A4F-8C7E-8867E02F292C@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <000e01d9e74c$939a6440$bacf2cc0$@gmail.com>

Hi Dennis, I've got 4 of them, but they are 14" and, on my Datsun 240Z.
Sorry my friend!

Regards,

Jeff Snook
419-344-0319
www.snooksdreamcars.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of DENNIS DELAP via Fot
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2023 4:02 PM
To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Indy Mag

A M I C I
Does anyone have an Indy Mag  -


From krhollar at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 14 15:11:58 2023
From: krhollar at yahoo.com (Ken Hollar)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 21:11:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
References: <843304730.949690.1694725918111.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <843304730.949690.1694725918111@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello All,
I am the proud owner of a 1958 Triumph TR3A Race Car which has not seen the track since the engine blew in July 1979 at Riverside International Raceway.? Unfortunately the track is gone, but the car has been saved in a garage since then.

The car was raced in the 1970s throughout southern California in SCCA and CalClub events.? It has period correct performance equipment and safety equipment as required in those days.? The owner-driver was John Kerr. He is a tall lanky guy and the roll bar with it's seat are consistent with his height.? Number 27 with SCCA logos.
I heard many stories from John about his racing days in SoCal at breakfast meetings with the Los Angeles based Triumph Clubs.?I bought the car from his niece.?
It took me about a week of tinkering to find out why the car had been sidelined.? It ran for 30 seconds, which was 15 seconds to long.? Clank, Clank, Clank.??
I have a fresh engine in it and the OD trans has been freshened up too.? I am looking to bring this car back up to current vintage racing safety specs.??
I am an nuts and bolts kind of mechanic having built hot rods and street racers, back in old days.? I currently drive a 1966 Triumph TR4A, an MGB and a '55 Chevy for toys.??
Next weekend, Sept 23-24, I am planning on going to the VARA event at Buttonwillow, Ca. near Bakersfield and hopefully engage their tech guys.
Thanks for letting me join your group.
Ken Hollar408-655-7569
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From vintageclassicsus at outlook.com  Thu Sep 14 17:03:31 2023
From: vintageclassicsus at outlook.com (Tony Garmey)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 23:03:31 +0000
Subject: [Fot] =?windows-1252?q?Wtd_=91GT6?=
Message-ID: <IA1PR19MB63477B9A35D99CD6AB996F1BABF7A@IA1PR19MB6347.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>


Hello All :-)

Need a pair of steering arms from a GT6 ( spitfire?)

Some muppet drilled these jumbo size :-/


Thanks !
[IMG_8658.jpg]


Sent from my iPhone
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From sjanzen at me.com  Thu Sep 14 18:55:21 2023
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 20:55:21 -0400
Subject: [Fot] TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <843304730.949690.1694725918111@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <843304730.949690.1694725918111@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <76543FA1-659F-4395-9A6F-5F3EBC995B30@me.com>

Very cool history. Welcome!  

Scott Janzen 
1968 GT6 (car originally raced in/ from California by Tom Hall, but up north-Laguna Seca, PIR, Oregon GP).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2023, at 5:16 PM, Ken Hollar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello All,
> 
> I am the proud owner of a 1958 Triumph TR3A Race Car which has not seen the track since the engine blew in July 1979 at Riverside International Raceway.  Unfortunately the track is gone, but the car has been saved in a garage since then.
> 
> 
> The car was raced in the 1970s throughout southern California in SCCA and CalClub events.  It has period correct performance equipment and safety equipment as required in those days.  The owner-driver was John Kerr. He is a tall lanky guy and the roll bar with it's seat are consistent with his height.  Number 27 with SCCA logos.
> 
> I heard many stories from John about his racing days in SoCal at breakfast meetings with the Los Angeles based Triumph Clubs. I bought the car from his niece. 
> 
> It took me about a week of tinkering to find out why the car had been sidelined.  It ran for 30 seconds, which was 15 seconds to long.  Clank, Clank, Clank.  
> 
> I have a fresh engine in it and the OD trans has been freshened up too.  I am looking to bring this car back up to current vintage racing safety specs.  
> 
> I am an nuts and bolts kind of mechanic having built hot rods and street racers, back in old days.  I currently drive a 1966 Triumph TR4A, an MGB and a '55 Chevy for toys.  
> 
> Next weekend, Sept 23-24, I am planning on going to the VARA event at Buttonwillow, Ca. near Bakersfield and hopefully engage their tech guys.
> 
> Thanks for letting me join your group.
> 
> Ken Hollar
> 408-655-7569
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
> 
> 
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From alfetta95 at optonline.net  Thu Sep 14 19:44:54 2023
From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (Alfetta95)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 21:44:54 -0400
Subject: [Fot] TR3A Race Car Restoration San Diego Area
In-Reply-To: <76543FA1-659F-4395-9A6F-5F3EBC995B30@me.com>
References: <76543FA1-659F-4395-9A6F-5F3EBC995B30@me.com>
Message-ID: <783E4326-B976-456B-B374-4D19F5073662@optonline.net>

Welcome Ken!

> On Sep 14, 2023, at 9:11 PM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Very cool history. Welcome!  
> 
> Scott Janzen 
> 1968 GT6 (car originally raced in/ from California by Tom Hall, but up north-Laguna Seca, PIR, Oregon GP).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2023, at 5:16 PM, Ken Hollar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I am the proud owner of a 1958 Triumph TR3A Race Car which has not seen the track since the engine blew in July 1979 at Riverside International Raceway.  Unfortunately the track is gone, but the car has been saved in a garage since then.
>> 
>> 
>> The car was raced in the 1970s throughout southern California in SCCA and CalClub events.  It has period correct performance equipment and safety equipment as required in those days.  The owner-driver was John Kerr. He is a tall lanky guy and the roll bar with it's seat are consistent with his height.  Number 27 with SCCA logos.
>> 
>> I heard many stories from John about his racing days in SoCal at breakfast meetings with the Los Angeles based Triumph Clubs. I bought the car from his niece. 
>> 
>> It took me about a week of tinkering to find out why the car had been sidelined.  It ran for 30 seconds, which was 15 seconds to long.  Clank, Clank, Clank.  
>> 
>> I have a fresh engine in it and the OD trans has been freshened up too.  I am looking to bring this car back up to current vintage racing safety specs.  
>> 
>> I am an nuts and bolts kind of mechanic having built hot rods and street racers, back in old days.  I currently drive a 1966 Triumph TR4A, an MGB and a '55 Chevy for toys.  
>> 
>> Next weekend, Sept 23-24, I am planning on going to the VARA event at Buttonwillow, Ca. near Bakersfield and hopefully engage their tech guys.
>> 
>> Thanks for letting me join your group.
>> 
>> Ken Hollar
>> 408-655-7569
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/alfetta95 at optonline.net
> 
> 
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From 1959triumphtr3a at gmail.com  Fri Sep 15 18:38:28 2023
From: 1959triumphtr3a at gmail.com (Ken Gano)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 19:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Fot] These lists and old friends
Message-ID: <3A28049E-4EC2-4508-A0B8-AAABC6B5426E@gmail.com>

I joined the triumphs list 27 or 28 years ago and the FOT list at least 15 years ago.  I have to say, not only did that give me a great resource for advise and parts, but it also introduced me to several folks I now consider among my best friends.  I would never have had the patience to actually finish my TR3 without these lists. Thanks, guys and gals.

Lately, I have been ?downsizing? and generally de cluttering. While cleaning out the garage one of the physically biggest ?tools? laying around is the powder coating equipment. Moving it all around has brought on a bad case of nostalgia, particularly for my good old friend Fred Thomas (?ft?).  Fred and I (and several others) went together and purchased a large quantity of powder. 

Anyway, I would like to give something back to the lists.  I have a TIP?s brand blast cabinet, an old electric range, a Chicago Electric static generator, a LOT of powder (probably 20-30 lbs, more than a lifetime?s worth ?), various blast cabinet parts, nozzles, glass protectors, etc., a bag of blast media, a couple of rolls of high temperature masking tape and all the related stuff.  

No charge to any list member. The only catch is that it has to be f.o.b Charleston, Illinois (180 miles due south of Chicago).  It is much to bulking to ship but would be only a moderate pickup truck load. 

Please let me know if you are interested. I don?t mind storing it for a short period of time, but if no one here claims it soon, I will probably try to sell it locally. 

Blue skies, my friends. 

Ken Gano

Sent from my iPad

From tomstrange5 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 18 16:37:48 2023
From: tomstrange5 at gmail.com (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 18:37:48 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Joe Curry
Message-ID: <CALDumpD=u5HdxpBLfn=d9Mk7i=uZSAn2nbZh4pji82aMddoUtw@mail.gmail.com>

Joe,
  What is your email for some off-list questions?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Strange
#4 white
tomstrange5 at gmail.com
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Tue Sep 19 15:23:41 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:23:41 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Sponsoring Richard Taylor IV. And TR4 #196 to the FOT
Message-ID: <F15CF61F-02F4-4E5C-96FF-CE667FF8C0BC@gmail.com>

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From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Sep 19 16:20:26 2023
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:20:26 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Sponsoring Richard Taylor IV. And TR4 #196 to the FOT
In-Reply-To: <F15CF61F-02F4-4E5C-96FF-CE667FF8C0BC@gmail.com>
References: <F15CF61F-02F4-4E5C-96FF-CE667FF8C0BC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <762ec5ed-a4b3-4b7a-e8e3-71e103ea91d7@bradakis.com>

Okay, he's added to the list.

mjb.


From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Sep 20 11:32:45 2023
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 12:32:45 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Founder's race at Road America last Sunday
Message-ID: <91c4fedb-4b10-bf4a-51d8-7607ce1f23e9@tonydrews.com>

Epic battle with Dave Amys, best race last weekend:

https://youtu.be/lJJCulipFko

I have 3 more races to video edit, but this one I was most excited to 
watch and re-live.

- Tony Drews


From pethier7 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 20 15:08:53 2023
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 16:08:53 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Founder's race at Road America last Sunday
In-Reply-To: <91c4fedb-4b10-bf4a-51d8-7607ce1f23e9@tonydrews.com>
References: <91c4fedb-4b10-bf4a-51d8-7607ce1f23e9@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <CAE16_w1LXyhrBBde3Wm8=s_zXhst1xzddGQtacicKMEpuTWUxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 3:45?PM Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Epic battle with Dave Amys, best race last weekend:
>
> https://youtu.be/lJJCulipFko
>
> I have 3 more races to video edit, but this one I was most excited to
> watch and re-live.
>
> - Tony Drews


My stills are coming, but I have a lot on my plate just now.  I believe
they will be worth the wait!


-- 
Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA
1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue
2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red
2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl, Gone but not forgotten
2006 Gulf Stream Conquest Super C, 8.1, White
2011 Cayman 2.9 PDK, White
2017 Ford Fusion SE 2.0 Turbo, Oxford White
www.mnautox.com
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Wed Sep 20 15:12:06 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 16:12:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Founder's race at Road America last Sunday
In-Reply-To: <91c4fedb-4b10-bf4a-51d8-7607ce1f23e9@tonydrews.com>
References: <91c4fedb-4b10-bf4a-51d8-7607ce1f23e9@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <CD9250FD-BB2B-49A0-95E6-44858F4E100F@gmail.com>

Egads. That was a show.   Dave Amys is VERY fast.

Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


> On Sep 20, 2023, at 3:44 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Epic battle with Dave Amys, best race last weekend:
> 
> https://youtu.be/lJJCulipFko
> 
> I have 3 more races to video edit, but this one I was most excited to watch and re-live.
> 
> - Tony Drews
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
> 
> 

From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 20 17:23:38 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 23:23:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>

I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB
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From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Thu Sep 21 05:29:34 2023
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>

Joe, 

If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in
all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the
back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or
didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the
problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing
to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is
not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of
oil leaking about. 

The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only
the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the
adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start
working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure
should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the
8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out
they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that
cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that. 

I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs,
seems to work well for me. 

The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox
case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just
found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket
surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive
gearbox.  Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they
have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads.
They have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always
a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go
the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run
the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed. 

The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I
believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started
by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really
compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito
might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order
it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts.  

Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is,
you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8
springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam.
Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can
completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety
wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is
pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place
in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD
mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the
box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the
gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and
washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD
unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts.
Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go
inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the
sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter
plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs
correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit
home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the
safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to
go. 

If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line
up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out! 

Henry 

On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:

> I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.  Thoughts?  JoeB
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From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 07:18:50 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:18:50 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Founder's race at Road America last Sunday
In-Reply-To: <CAE16_w1LXyhrBBde3Wm8=s_zXhst1xzddGQtacicKMEpuTWUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE16_w1LXyhrBBde3Wm8=s_zXhst1xzddGQtacicKMEpuTWUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75BBBE05-0F74-46D7-8FD6-4CC7969F6E3F@gmail.com>

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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Thu Sep 21 08:32:27 2023
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 14:32:27 +0000
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <A1E23541-7DA0-4AA3-B6E0-3922FE1203BB@mhc-law.com>

Joe, we have found, under racing conditions, that all of the alu. bavcking plates crack causing a leak.   We solved the problem by fabricating one out of steel.  Problem solved.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2023, at 7:53 AM, yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?

Joe,

If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking about.

The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.

I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work well for me.

The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox.  Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.

The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts.

Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to go.

If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!

Henry

On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:

I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.  Thoughts?  JoeB
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com


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From fubog1 at aol.com  Thu Sep 21 09:11:20 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 15:11:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <1482137404.187741.1695309080618@mail.yahoo.com>

 Can't add much to Henrys excellent dissertation on the A-type, except to check the plate for bend/warpage @ the bottom between the 2 lower fasteners.
Glen Efinger

    On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 08:10:31 AM EDT, yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 
Joe,

If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking about.

The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.

I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work well for me.

The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox.? Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They have been working for me.?These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.

The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts.?

Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to go.

If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!

Henry

On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:

I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1 at aol.com


  
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From rjl6n at cstone.net  Thu Sep 21 09:34:44 2023
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (R. John Lye)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 11:34:44 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>


	


Hi Joe B..

Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "

This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I put
an OD back together.? I thought that I had the splines line up, but in fact,
I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it down.

Hope that helps,
John
?



On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
?
Joe,

If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking about.

The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.

I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work well for me.

The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox.? Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They have been working for me.?These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.

The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts.?

Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to go.

If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!

Henry

On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:





I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB




_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rjl6n at cstone.net

?



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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 21 10:55:35 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 12:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <21A6FF4F-6EAF-45FE-A091-7B78786BE93D@yahoo.com>

Thanks all for all the info.  I went thru my parts stash and found an OD main shaft.  JoeB

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2023, at 11:35 AM, R. John Lye <rjl6n at cstone.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Joe B..
> 
> Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "
> 
> This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I put
> an OD back together.  I thought that I had the splines line up, but in fact,
> I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it down.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> John  
> 
> 
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>  
> Joe,
> 
> If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking about.
> 
> The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.
> 
> I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work well for me.
> 
> The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox.  Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.
> 
> The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts. 
> 
> Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to go.
> 
> If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!
> 
> Henry
> 
>> On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:
>> 
>> I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.  Thoughts?  JoeB
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From vintagenick42 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 21 11:05:13 2023
From: vintagenick42 at yahoo.com (Nick Black)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 10:05:13 -0700
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>

Joe 
I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.

Sent from the wilds of NorCal 

> On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able. 
> 
> 
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 21 13:35:35 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:35:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1138277715.5258195.1695324935800@mail.yahoo.com>

 I've read a number of responses to this and all are good ideas.? When I was racing with an A-Type overdrive, I met a guy from St. Louis named Bill Boemmler, a TR-3 racer from the 50's & 60's.? Bill was also a skilled machinist and had a small machine shop behind his house.? Everything I know about the A-Type overdrive, I learned from Bill.
The bottom of the adapter plate is fastened by 2 studs, one in each corner.? It generally leaks between these 2 studs.? Bill would drill and tap for two additional small bolts (about 1/2" long), spaced evenly between the 2 studs.? Two holes were drilled in the adapter plate, aligned with two holes which were drilled and tapped into the overdrive housing for a 1/4" - 20 hex bolt.? This, of course, has to be done when the overdrive is apart, and the holes are drilled and tapped into the rear of the O/D housing.? When assembling, it is a tight fit to get these two bolts in between the gearbox housing and the adapter plate, so the bolts need to be short. just long enough to get a firm threading into the O/D housing.? They should be secured with either lock tight or safety wire.
This process is a little hard to explain, so if you want a better description either call me or contact me offline.? I had Bill perform this modification on all of my race and street car overdrives, and after this modification, I never had a leak in this area.
Cheers,
Jack

    On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:17:01 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From brakey6666 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 21 14:57:56 2023
From: brakey6666 at gmail.com (Glenn Franco)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:57:56 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have to chime in on issues with the A type overdrive. Thankfully I have
NO more A types to overhaul since they are a P.I.T.A. to do.
The hardest part, as stated, is lining up the 2 splines that will allow the
mainshaft to nest into the Planetary Gearset and Overrunning Clutch. You
basically need at least yourself and a helper to put it together. I
probably did 10-12 of these 2 or more years ago. First time we did one we
split the adapter plate pulling the O/D on to the transmission.
Unfortunately it was welded back together and the repair was a weak spot.
If you force the O/D onto the trans when pulling it back together with the
2 nuts on the O/D studs it will break or bend the plate.

The fasteners (6) that hold the plate to the back of the transmission are
drilled for safety wire. I used stainless safety wire on those after
torquing. Make sure you repeat the way the wire is routed through the bolt
heads. I had a couple transmissions leak because I didn't follow the
routing  properly. I mistakenly routed some of the wire near the base of
the plate fouling the gasket which resulted in an embarrassing 3 comebacks
on one transmission due to leaks.
Took awhile to figure it out, dumb mistake.

Glenn 74 TR6 Restored, 68 TR250 Frame Off in Progress, 73 BMW 2002


On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 4:04?PM Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Joe
> I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I
> recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are
> totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds?
> throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock
> bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.
>
> Sent from the wilds of NorCal
>
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking
> from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just
> separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate
> (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking
> with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take
> the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being
> separated and it looks like it is do able.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gaf3 at charter.net
>
>
>
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Thu Sep 21 15:24:30 2023
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
References: <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <03F882A4-12AB-4F36-A318-5F8C3A884C58@icloud.com>

I?ll add one more to the great advice already provided. I drill out and helicoil all of those adapters plate bolt holes. 

The last time I had leaks like you described, I opened the access plate to the accumulator and found two bolts had completely backed out of their holes and were ?resting? near the piston. 

I safety wire mine now. 






Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2023, at 15:14, Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Joe 
> I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.
> 
> Sent from the wilds of NorCal 
> 
>>> On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able. 
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3 at icloud.com
> 
> 
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From mhado at att.net  Thu Sep 21 15:47:14 2023
From: mhado at att.net (M&M Hado)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 16:47:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
 <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <006401d9ecd5$304110e0$90c332a0$@att.net>

All good suggestions and I would like to add a couple more on areas which have affected me in the past:

 

The 8 springs are often referred to as ?4 long and 4 short? but the springs are often approximately the same length.  Also, some are left hand wound and some are right hand wound.  Some have a paint mark (I?ve seen white, red, and blue) to differentiate the difference.  

 

To be sure I?m using the right ones in the right place, I test the springs by compressing each one to check their bound length.  I put it over a long threaded 5/16? rod and compress with a nut on each end. Then measure or observe the bound length.  The ?long? spring will always be about 3/8? to ?? longer when completely compressed.  If a long spring is put in the wrong location, it will become coil bound when the overdrive is activated.  The result is that the clutch will not move enough to reach the brake ring and the OD will not engage.  Don?t ask me how I know this.

 

Also, as Henry and John mentioned, the splines must be aligned before the shaft can be fully inserted and an old or spare A-type mainshaft (any TR2 through TR6 one will do since you are only using the back end of it).  How to get them aligned can be tricky once the OD is assembled.  It?s not just a matter of rotating the rear flange as you might think.  If the inside clutch face is against the annulus taper, both splines will rotate together when the rear flange is turned.  In order to get a relative movement to re-align them, the clutch must be pulled away from the annulus so the two can rotate separately until they are realigned.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mike Hado

 

From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of R. John Lye via Fot
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 10:35 AM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com; jaboruch at yahoo.com
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

 

Hi Joe B..

Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "

This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I put
an OD back together.  I thought that I had the splines line up, but in fact,
I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it down.

Hope that helps,
John   

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
  

Joe,

If your gearbox has slowly started leaking around the adapter plate, in all likelihood the issue is the six bolts that hold the plate to the back of the gearbox have loosened up. If nobody safety wired them or didn't use any kind of threadlocker on them, this is typically the problem when leaks slowly start in this area. The likelihood of needing to replace the adapter plate is not all that high, assuming the leak is not huge and you have not been driving the car with copious amounts of oil leaking about.

The adapter plate is not part of the overdrive unit, so replacing only the adapter plate is not too difficult. Six nuts hold the OD unit to the adapter plate, remove the nuts from the 4 short studs first, then start working the nuts on the two long studs evenly, and spring pressure should separate the OD unit from the adapter plate. Pay attention to the 8 springs as you slide the OD unit off the mainshaft, when they fall out they like to roll under things. Place the OD unit aside, other that cleaning the gasket surface you will not be messing with that.

I use the little bottle of Permatex Aviation gasket sealer for gearboxs, seems to work well for me.

The six bolts that attach the adapter plate to the back of the gearbox case are now visible, if these bolts are not properly torqued you just found the source of your leak. Remove them, clean up your gasket surfaces and reseal. The same gasket is used here as the non-overdrive gearbox.  Rimmers sells bolts specifically for this application, they have threadlocker that is safe for the aluminum case on the threads. They have been working for me. These 6 bolts may be safety wired, always a good idea if you don't buy a set of new bolts from Rimmers. If you go the safety wire route, pay attention to the parts as it is easy to run the wire in such a way that it fouls when the OD unit is installed.

The last adapter plate I bought from Rimmers was embossed with "ORS", I believe it was made by Overdrive Repair Services, the business started by Laycock employees after Laycock closed their doors. I didn't really compare it to a Triumph adapter plate, but I can see how John Esposito might call it an upgraded adapter plate. If you need one, I'd just order it from Rimmers along with those 6 bolts. 

Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are good to go.

If you run into problems or need to borrow a spare OD mainshaft to line up the splines in the OD unit, feel free to reach out!

Henry

On 2023-09-20 19:23, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:

I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.  Thoughts?  JoeB

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From rjl6n at cstone.net  Thu Sep 21 20:58:49 2023
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (R. John Lye)
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2023 22:58:49 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1138277715.5258195.1695324935800@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1138277715.5258195.1695324935800@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>


	


Wow, Bill Boemmler is a name that I recognize from my time in St. Louis.? He was indeed
a skilled machinist and did some really cool tricks just like Jack described.

Thanks,
John
?



On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:35:35 +0000 (UTC), Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
?

?

I've read a number of responses to this and all are good ideas.? When I was racing with an A-Type overdrive, I met a guy from St. Louis named Bill Boemmler, a TR-3 racer from the 50's & 60's.? Bill was also a skilled machinist and had a small machine shop behind his house.? Everything I know about the A-Type overdrive, I learned from Bill.

?

The bottom of the adapter plate is fastened by 2 studs, one in each corner.? It generally leaks between these 2 studs.? Bill would drill and tap for two additional small bolts (about 1/2" long), spaced evenly between the 2 studs.? Two holes were drilled in the adapter plate, aligned with two holes which were drilled and tapped into the overdrive housing for a 1/4" - 20 hex bolt.? This, of course, has to be done when the overdrive is apart, and the holes are drilled and tapped into the rear of the O/D housing.? When assembling, it is a tight fit to get these two bolts in between the gearbox housing and the adapter plate, so the bolts need to be short. just long enough to get a firm threading into the O/D housing.? They should be secured with either lock tight or safety wire.

?

This process is a little hard to explain, so if you want a better description either call me or contact me offline.? I had Bill perform this modification on all of my race and street car overdrives, and after this modification, I never had a leak in this area.

?

Cheers,

?

Jack

?




On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:17:01 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?

?





I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB



_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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?


_______________________________________________
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From whitedog72 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 22 06:44:15 2023
From: whitedog72 at hotmail.com (f s)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 12:44:15 +0000
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1138277715.5258195.1695324935800@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <BL1P220MB08048F33D8ACA99AFC67A276C1FFA@BL1P220MB0804.NAMP220.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I knew Bill when I was a kid. He rebuilt a diff for me.



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device



-------- Original message --------
From: "R. John Lye via Fot" <fot at autox.team.net>
Date: 9/21/23 10:46 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com, fot at autox.team.net, jaboruch at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

Wow, Bill Boemmler is a name that I recognize from my time in St. Louis.  He was indeed
a skilled machinist and did some really cool tricks just like Jack described.

Thanks,
John

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:35:35 +0000 (UTC), Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


I've read a number of responses to this and all are good ideas.  When I was racing with an A-Type overdrive, I met a guy from St. Louis named Bill Boemmler, a TR-3 racer from the 50's & 60's.  Bill was also a skilled machinist and had a small machine shop behind his house.  Everything I know about the A-Type overdrive, I learned from Bill.

The bottom of the adapter plate is fastened by 2 studs, one in each corner.  It generally leaks between these 2 studs.  Bill would drill and tap for two additional small bolts (about 1/2" long), spaced evenly between the 2 studs.  Two holes were drilled in the adapter plate, aligned with two holes which were drilled and tapped into the overdrive housing for a 1/4" - 20 hex bolt.  This, of course, has to be done when the overdrive is apart, and the holes are drilled and tapped into the rear of the O/D housing.  When assembling, it is a tight fit to get these two bolts in between the gearbox housing and the adapter plate, so the bolts need to be short. just long enough to get a firm threading into the O/D housing.  They should be secured with either lock tight or safety wire.

This process is a little hard to explain, so if you want a better description either call me or contact me offline.  I had Bill perform this modification on all of my race and street car overdrives, and after this modification, I never had a leak in this area.

Cheers,

Jack

On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:17:01 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.  Thoughts?  JoeB
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From tony at tonydrews.com  Fri Sep 22 10:48:08 2023
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 11:48:08 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
Message-ID: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>

Hey, I seem to have damaged 4th gear in my Quaiffe TR-4/6 dog box 
setup.? I think I need a 3rd / 4th sliding ring (I think that's the 
name) and 4th gear.? Anyone know if that kind of thing is available and 
who I would contact for that?? My understanding is that Dennis Vessey is 
out of the picture now.

Thanks, Tony Drews


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Fri Sep 22 13:17:29 2023
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (Henry A. Morrison)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:17:29 +0000
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
 <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

My current overdrive rebuild went so well with me replacing a variety of linings and washers that were shot or just not installed by the previous rebuilder.  I thought all the pressure producing bits looked good so mostly left them alone.  I did the pressure test when I got it all back together and it was close to where it was supposed to be.  I drove the car once and it seemed to work, drove it again and it dropped into overdrive whenever I lifted off the gas and dropped out again when power was re applied.  This is pretty much what the thing was doing when I started the project and I'm sure was the reason for my slower than they should have been lap times at the Cup!

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Cheers, Henry Morrison

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 2:57 PM
To: Nick Black <vintagenick42 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

I have to chime in on issues with the A type overdrive. Thankfully I have NO more A types to overhaul since they are a P.I.T.A. to do.
The hardest part, as stated, is lining up the 2 splines that will allow the mainshaft to nest into the Planetary Gearset and Overrunning Clutch. You basically need at least yourself and a helper to put it together. I probably did 10-12 of these 2 or more years ago. First time we did one we split the adapter plate pulling the O/D on to the transmission. Unfortunately it was welded back together and the repair was a weak spot. If you force the O/D onto the trans when pulling it back together with the 2 nuts on the O/D studs it will break or bend the plate.

The fasteners (6) that hold the plate to the back of the transmission are drilled for safety wire. I used stainless safety wire on those after torquing. Make sure you repeat the way the wire is routed through the bolt heads. I had a couple transmissions leak because I didn't follow the routing  properly. I mistakenly routed some of the wire near the base of the plate fouling the gasket which resulted in an embarrassing 3 comebacks on one transmission due to leaks.
Took awhile to figure it out, dumb mistake.

Glenn 74 TR6 Restored, 68 TR250 Frame Off in Progress, 73 BMW 2002


On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 4:04?PM Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
Joe
I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.

Sent from the wilds of NorCal

On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

?
I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.


_______________________________________________
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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Fri Sep 22 14:49:57 2023
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 20:49:57 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
In-Reply-To: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>
References: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR22MB3834644B34FD16AB534E8A9D99FFA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

I checked last month with Quaiffe and was told that Racetorations was the exclusive source for the whole box, don't know about components.  Quaiffe did say that if I wanted to buy a dozen or so they could make an exception.  Let me know if you find out anything since I use a similar box. 



?
John H. Hasty
Of Counsel
Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.
301 S. York St., 
P.O. Box 488
Gastonia, NC 28053
704.864.6751?(p)?704.861.8394?(f)
mhc-law.com?|?jhasty at mhc-law.com
?
?


-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 12:48 PM
To: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts

Hey, I seem to have damaged 4th gear in my Quaiffe TR-4/6 dog box setup.? I think I need a 3rd / 4th sliding ring (I think that's the
name) and 4th gear.? Anyone know if that kind of thing is available and who I would contact for that?? My understanding is that Dennis Vessey is out of the picture now.

Thanks, Tony Drews

_______________________________________________
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From rick.parent at att.net  Fri Sep 22 16:57:50 2023
From: rick.parent at att.net (Rick Parent)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 22:57:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
In-Reply-To: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>
References: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <122542688.249761.1695423470021@mail.yahoo.com>

Call Scott Young Enterprises, Scotty is a great guy.

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 12:37 PM, Tony Drews via Fot<fot at autox.team.net> wrote:   Hey, I seem to have damaged 4th gear in my Quaiffe TR-4/6 dog box 
setup.? I think I need a 3rd / 4th sliding ring (I think that's the 
name) and 4th gear.? Anyone know if that kind of thing is available and 
who I would contact for that?? My understanding is that Dennis Vessey is 
out of the picture now.

Thanks, Tony Drews

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au  Sat Sep 23 00:26:34 2023
From: gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 16:26:34 +1000
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR22MB3834644B34FD16AB534E8A9D99FFA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR22MB3834644B34FD16AB534E8A9D99FFA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A345EF44-EAC0-4629-88F0-207143A6BD85@optusnet.com.au>

I also run a quaiffe dog box , If you are getting some made I?d be interested 
Geoff Byrne 
TR racer down under

Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Sep 2023, at 11:07 am, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I checked last month with Quaiffe and was told that Racetorations was the exclusive source for the whole box, don't know about components.  Quaiffe did say that if I wanted to buy a dozen or so they could make an exception.  Let me know if you find out anything since I use a similar box. 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> John H. Hasty
> Of Counsel
> Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.
> 301 S. York St., 
> P.O. Box 488
> Gastonia, NC 28053
> 704.864.6751 (p) 704.861.8394 (f)
> mhc-law.com | jhasty at mhc-law.com
>  
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 12:48 PM
> To: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
> 
> Hey, I seem to have damaged 4th gear in my Quaiffe TR-4/6 dog box setup.  I think I need a 3rd / 4th sliding ring (I think that's the
> name) and 4th gear.  Anyone know if that kind of thing is available and who I would contact for that?  My understanding is that Dennis Vessey is out of the picture now.
> 
> Thanks, Tony Drews
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au
> 
> 


From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Sat Sep 23 04:26:38 2023
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 06:26:38 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <006401d9ecd5$304110e0$90c332a0$@att.net>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
 <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
 <006401d9ecd5$304110e0$90c332a0$@att.net>
Message-ID: <85fb4147db92b8dde96d370793c263b5@tr4racer.com>

Regarding the installation of the OD unit to the gearbox...

It sounds like a lot of people have bent or broken adapter plates trying 
to get everything aligned and back together. When drawing the OD unit 
home by tightening equally the nuts on the two long studs, if everything 
is aligned properly at no point does the unit get hung up. If you 
experience any binding, especially in the last inch +/- 1/2 inch, STOP. 
Either the splines are not perfectly aligned, or you are fouling the 
pump plunger. Evenly back off the two nuts, remove the OD unit and start 
again. Failure to do this will bend or break the adapter plate, or if 
you are hanging up on the oil pump, you will bend the plunger shaft.

For years I followed the instructions out there on installing the OD 
unit to the gearbox, install the springs on the sliding member, then 
offer up the OD unit. Some like to do it with the gearbox vertical, some 
prefer horizontal. Both methods can be a huge source of frustration, as 
the springs hold the OD unit pretty far from the adapter plate. As Mike 
Hado point out, once the springs are under pressure, they are locking 
the cone clutch in place on the annulus. One would think that is a good 
thing, you have aligned the splines using a dummy mainshaft, not moved 
anything, in theory it should just slide right home. Well, several folks 
here have posted, more often than not, it doesn't.

Once Tim Hutchisen turned me on to the process I described on my 
original post, aligning everything with no springs installed then 
stuffing the springs into place, mating the OD unit to the gearbox 
became pretty easy and frustration free. Sure, it's messy as you can't 
avoid get the sealant on your gloves/hands, but it works every time. One 
thing I didn't mention as I thought it was obvious, but this is done 
with the gearbox horizontal, on a gearbox stand or the bench.

Henry Frye

On 2023-09-21 17:47, M&M Hado wrote:

> It's not just a matter of rotating the rear flange as you might think.  
> If the inside clutch face is against the annulus taper, both splines 
> will rotate together when the rear flange is turned.  In order to get a 
> relative movement to re-align them, the clutch must be pulled away from 
> the annulus so the two can rotate separately until they are realigned.
> 
> Mike Hado
> 
> From:  John Lye
> 
> Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "
> 
> This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I 
> put
> an OD back together.  I thought that I had the splines line up, but in 
> fact,
> I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it 
> down.
> 
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 wrote:
> 
> Joe,
> 
> Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is, 
> you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8 
> springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam. 
> Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can 
> completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety 
> wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is 
> pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place 
> in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD 
> mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the 
> box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the 
> gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and 
> washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD 
> unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts. 
> Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go 
> inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the 
> sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter 
> plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs 
> correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit 
> home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove 
> the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are 
> good to go.

From fubog1 at aol.com  Sat Sep 23 07:15:50 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 13:15:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
 <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <496355430.6006589.1695474950095@mail.yahoo.com>

 I would 1st check that the solenoid & adjustment is correct, in no love then do a pressure check, & also make sure the filter isn't full of clutch material.

Glen Efinger
    On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 07:51:17 PM EDT, Henry A. Morrison via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 My current overdrive rebuild went so well with me replacing a variety of linings and washers that were shot or just not installed by the previous rebuilder.? I thought all the pressure producing bits looked good so mostly left them alone.? I did the pressure test when I got it all back together and it was close to where it was supposed to be.? I drove the car once and it seemed to work, drove it again and it dropped into overdrive whenever I lifted off the gas and dropped out again when power was re applied.? This is pretty much what the thing was doing when I started the project and I'm sure was the reason for my slower than they should have been lap times at the Cup!??
Any suggestions on what to do next??
Cheers, Henry Morrison
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 2:57 PM
To: Nick Black <vintagenick42 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks?I have to chime in on issues with the A type overdrive. Thankfully I have NO more A types to overhaul since they are a P.I.T.A. to do.
The hardest part, as stated, is lining up the 2 splines that will allow the mainshaft to nest into the Planetary Gearset and Overrunning Clutch. You basically need at least yourself and a helper to put it together. I probably did 10-12 of these 2 or more years ago. First time we did one we split the adapter plate pulling the O/D on to the transmission. Unfortunately it was welded back together and the repair was a weak spot. If you force the O/D onto the trans when pulling it back together with the 2 nuts on the O/D studs it will break or bend the plate.

The fasteners (6) that hold the plate to the back of the transmission are drilled for safety wire. I used stainless safety wire on those after torquing. Make sure you repeat the way the wire is routed through the bolt heads. I had a couple transmissions leak because I didn't follow the routing? properly. I mistakenly routed some of the wire near the base of the plate fouling the gasket which resulted in an embarrassing 3 comebacks on one transmission due to leaks.Took awhile to figure it out, dumb mistake.
Glenn 74 TR6 Restored, 68 TR250 Frame Off in Progress, 73 BMW 2002 


On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 4:04?PM Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Joe?I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.
Sent from the wilds of NorCal?

On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.?


_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 09:02:31 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 15:02:31 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 09:08:01 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 15:08:01 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR22MB3834644B34FD16AB534E8A9D99FFA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1ed9f30b-efb7-76bb-dd2b-ed010c8e4129@tonydrews.com>
 <SN7PR22MB3834644B34FD16AB534E8A9D99FFA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB7501177209EEA6E0B5D1B3FED7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Second for Scott Young Enterprises.

I bought a Rocket through him and he was nice to work with.  He also helped with advice on adapting to the GT6/Spit bellhousing.




________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 4:49 PM
To: Tony Drews <tony at tonydrews.com>; Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts

I checked last month with Quaiffe and was told that Racetorations was the exclusive source for the whole box, don't know about components.  Quaiffe did say that if I wanted to buy a dozen or so they could make an exception.  Let me know if you find out anything since I use a similar box.




John H. Hasty
Of Counsel
Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.
301 S. York St.,
P.O. Box 488
Gastonia, NC 28053
704.864.6751 (p) 704.861.8394 (f)
mhc-law.com | jhasty at mhc-law.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tony Drews via Fot
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 12:48 PM
To: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Quaiffe TR-4/6 gearset parts

Hey, I seem to have damaged 4th gear in my Quaiffe TR-4/6 dog box setup.  I think I need a 3rd / 4th sliding ring (I think that's the
name) and 4th gear.  Anyone know if that kind of thing is available and who I would contact for that?  My understanding is that Dennis Vessey is out of the picture now.

Thanks, Tony Drews

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From jhassall at gmail.com  Sat Sep 23 09:56:27 2023
From: jhassall at gmail.com (J.C. Hassall)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 11:56:27 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <85fb4147db92b8dde96d370793c263b5@tr4racer.com>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <787520a029c891ed89f576e356112181@tr4racer.com>
 <1695310484.pi79hj6fr4wk8840@webmail.lumos.net>
 <006401d9ecd5$304110e0$90c332a0$@att.net>
 <85fb4147db92b8dde96d370793c263b5@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <CAO=iLWbxzO8i1FwBVFp1bPtu6zRncPoNEUeNtJ4oC1yjwuErSQ@mail.gmail.com>

One tip I'll add:  It is very easy to bend the pump plunger. Rotate the
pump cam so that the lobe is away from the pump.  Then use a piece of fine
(~28AWG) wire or very stout thread to pull the pump into the fully
compressed position (to clear the lobe) before trying to mate the gbx and
OD.  After the units are mated sufficiently to ensure that the pump is
clear of the cam, release the pump.  Bob's your uncle.

jim

On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 6:42?AM yellow04 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Regarding the installation of the OD unit to the gearbox...
>
> It sounds like a lot of people have bent or broken adapter plates trying
> to get everything aligned and back together. When drawing the OD unit
> home by tightening equally the nuts on the two long studs, if everything
> is aligned properly at no point does the unit get hung up. If you
> experience any binding, especially in the last inch +/- 1/2 inch, STOP.
> Either the splines are not perfectly aligned, or you are fouling the
> pump plunger. Evenly back off the two nuts, remove the OD unit and start
> again. Failure to do this will bend or break the adapter plate, or if
> you are hanging up on the oil pump, you will bend the plunger shaft.
>
> For years I followed the instructions out there on installing the OD
> unit to the gearbox, install the springs on the sliding member, then
> offer up the OD unit. Some like to do it with the gearbox vertical, some
> prefer horizontal. Both methods can be a huge source of frustration, as
> the springs hold the OD unit pretty far from the adapter plate. As Mike
> Hado point out, once the springs are under pressure, they are locking
> the cone clutch in place on the annulus. One would think that is a good
> thing, you have aligned the splines using a dummy mainshaft, not moved
> anything, in theory it should just slide right home. Well, several folks
> here have posted, more often than not, it doesn't.
>
> Once Tim Hutchisen turned me on to the process I described on my
> original post, aligning everything with no springs installed then
> stuffing the springs into place, mating the OD unit to the gearbox
> became pretty easy and frustration free. Sure, it's messy as you can't
> avoid get the sealant on your gloves/hands, but it works every time. One
> thing I didn't mention as I thought it was obvious, but this is done
> with the gearbox horizontal, on a gearbox stand or the bench.
>
> Henry Frye
>
> On 2023-09-21 17:47, M&M Hado wrote:
>
> > It's not just a matter of rotating the rear flange as you might think.
> > If the inside clutch face is against the annulus taper, both splines
> > will rotate together when the rear flange is turned.  In order to get a
> > relative movement to re-align them, the clutch must be pulled away from
> > the annulus so the two can rotate separately until they are realigned.
> >
> > Mike Hado
> >
> > From:  John Lye
> >
> > Henry says " you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit "
> >
> > This is very important, as I learned the hard way the first time that I
> > put
> > an OD back together.  I thought that I had the splines line up, but in
> > fact,
> > I only had the first set lined up and snapped a plate tightening it
> > down.
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 07:29:34 -0400, yellow04 wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> > Assembling the OD unit back onto the gearbox is where the real fun is,
> > you need to line up two sets of splines in the OD unit, compress the 8
> > springs and make sure you don't foul the oil pump plunger on the cam.
> > Many ways to accomplish this, some are tedious, frustrating, and can
> > completely drive you crazy. The easiest way I have found is to safety
> > wire the pump plunger, install the pump drive cam and make sure it is
> > pointing away from the pump, apply the sealant to the gasket and place
> > in on the OD unit, align the splines in the OD unit, (a spare OD
> > mainshaft is really helpful with this) and offer up the OD unit to the
> > box. Slowly slide the unit on assuring everything is lined up until the
> > gasket is almost touching the adapter plate. Then, install the nuts and
> > washers on the long studs only a couple of turns. Then you slide the OD
> > unit backwards WITHOUT TURNING the rear flange until it hits the nuts.
> > Then you install the 8 springs in their correct position, (shorts go
> > inboard, longs go outboard) by stuffing them onto their posts on the
> > sliding member then levering the other end onto the nubs on the adapter
> > plate. Take a really good look to make sure you have all 8 springs
> > correctly installed, then tighten the nuts equally to draw the OD unit
> > home. Then install the 4 nuts and washers on the short studs, remove
> > the safety wire on the oil pump plunger, refill with oil and you are
> > good to go.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at gmail.com
>
>
>

-- 
jim  W4BEA
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From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Sep 23 12:17:58 2023
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 13:17:58 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <3dc8c3df-eaba-eb3f-5329-8e63ebf5b296@tonydrews.com>

You don't say what kind of car.? I had a similar issue in my TR-4, 
changed head gasket 3 times and then discovered I had a crack in the 
head in the combustion chamber.


Sure sounds like a leak from combustion chamber into cooling system from 
the description.? Temperature spikes after pushing out water is a 
classic symptom, the rapid pressurization is a classic symptom.


Regards, Tony Drews


On 9/23/2023 10:02 AM, Anthony Parker via Fot wrote:
> I'm having cooling problems.
> Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
>
> Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.
>
> Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator 
> hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will 
> cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high 
> coolant temps.
>
> Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I 
> opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) 
> pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
>
> No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is 
> completely full
>
> Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles 
> eventually removing pump prime.
>
> Don't know what else it could be.
>
> Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying 
> some "stop leak" product?
>
> Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
>
> I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been 
> checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
>
> Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com
>
>
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From triumphsix at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 23 12:18:57 2023
From: triumphsix at yahoo.com (David Gott)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:18:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1264373065.2845909.1695493137220@mail.yahoo.com>

Anthony,
Is this a wet liner triumph engine? ?It does sound like a cracked liner issue we had on one of our engines; no smoking gun and leak down pressurizing cooling system didn?t show it; only when it got hot did the leak show?
Dave Gott


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, September 23, 2023, 1:53 PM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

 #yiv0505834595 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}I'm having cooling problems.Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.
Don't know what else it could be.
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 12:27:10 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:27:10 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <3dc8c3df-eaba-eb3f-5329-8e63ebf5b296@tonydrews.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <3dc8c3df-eaba-eb3f-5329-8e63ebf5b296@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB750129F19115B198FC68A10AD7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Tony,

It's a GT6.

I understand and agree with you.


________________________________
From: Tony Drews <tony at tonydrews.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 2:17 PM
To: Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum


You don't say what kind of car.  I had a similar issue in my TR-4, changed head gasket 3 times and then discovered I had a crack in the head in the combustion chamber.


Sure sounds like a leak from combustion chamber into cooling system from the description.  Temperature spikes after pushing out water is a classic symptom, the rapid pressurization is a classic symptom.


Regards, Tony Drews


On 9/23/2023 10:02 AM, Anthony Parker via Fot wrote:
I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.



_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 12:32:20 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:32:20 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <CAEN1C=Q65Ac7u=dyUhKgYTh84weqYpLoGBZVVMGfo+cmieMRVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAEN1C=Q65Ac7u=dyUhKgYTh84weqYpLoGBZVVMGfo+cmieMRVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB75019380CF53B3F5B56F4D2AD7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Jason,

Just got the engine together last night.
Have not run leak down.
Brand new Payen head gasket on freshly decked block.

Stock pump with only three weekends on it which had been performing properly.
Al pulley seems to be turning with the shaft. I have looked and felt.  The engine has only been idling.


________________________________
From: JS Performance Motoring, LLC <jason at jsperformancemotoring.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 2:18 PM
To: Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Anthony,
           Have you watched for bubbles thru the radiator fill cap with the engine running? Run a leak down test?  If you had a majorly failed head gasket, not sure it would hold pressure overnight like that.


Is it a stock type water pump?  Not a common failure, but what if the impeller has cracked or failed, and as things warm up it expands and loses its press fit "grip"  to the shaft.   OR if you are running some sort of aluminum pulley, that could be behaving similarly.


Good luck,


Jason Sukey
JS Performance Motoring, LLC
440.984.7720
jason at jsperformancemotoring.com<mailto:jason at jsperformancemotoring.com>
https://www.facebook.com/JSPerformanceMotoring/


On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 2:04?PM Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage<http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at jsperformancemotoring.com


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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 12:36:31 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:36:31 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <1264373065.2845909.1695493137220@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <1264373065.2845909.1695493137220@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB7501E288C7F8C0395EF42A49D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Dave,

GT6 engine. Not wet lined. Only 0.01" over bore.

I understand your scenario.



________________________________
From: David Gott <triumphsix at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 2:18 PM
To: Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Anthony,

Is this a wet liner triumph engine?  It does sound like a cracked liner issue we had on one of our engines; no smoking gun and leak down pressurizing cooling system didn?t show it; only when it got hot did the leak show?

Dave Gott


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_>


On Saturday, September 23, 2023, 1:53 PM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphsix at yahoo.com


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From vfracing at aol.com  Sat Sep 23 14:26:06 2023
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 16:26:06 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5B082A4C-2133-41F3-A860-631183F4C30A@aol.com>

Anthony:
I realize you have a GT6, but it is behaving very much like my TR4 when I had a crack in a cylinder. It would hold pressure during a pressure test, and it even held a vacuum, yet it would push water out and replace it with ?air? ( combustion gases) when running. Assuming your head is ok, there could be a crack in a cylinder that the machine shop missed.  Given the high pressures in the combustion chamber i would not think that that any sort of ?stop leak? would work.
Let us know what you find out.
Phil 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2023, at 2:19 PM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> ?
> I'm having cooling problems.
> Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
> 
> Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.
> 
> Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
> 
> Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
> 
> No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full
> 
> Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.
> 
> Don't know what else it could be.
> 
> Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?
> 
> Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
> 
> I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
> 
> Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 14:43:10 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 20:43:10 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <5B082A4C-2133-41F3-A860-631183F4C30A@aol.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <5B082A4C-2133-41F3-A860-631183F4C30A@aol.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB7501DBCAEBC405E92BF8CE27D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Phil,

I agree with what you're saying.

Just got off the phone with the machinist and he swears up and down that he checked the cylinders before and after boring/honing.
Still could be the cylinder and certainly could be the head.

Head looked flat to me with no local deformations, and combustion chambers looked clear, but my magniflux eyes may be failing.

I'll do some more snooping into coolant passages and water pump, and then take the head down for surfacing and crack checking.



________________________________
From: Philip Gott <vfracing at aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 4:26 PM
To: Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>; Friends Of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Anthony:
I realize you have a GT6, but it is behaving very much like my TR4 when I had a crack in a cylinder. It would hold pressure during a pressure test, and it even held a vacuum, yet it would push water out and replace it with ?air? ( combustion gases) when running. Assuming your head is ok, there could be a crack in a cylinder that the machine shop missed.  Given the high pressures in the combustion chamber i would not think that that any sort of ?stop leak? would work.
Let us know what you find out.
Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2023, at 2:19 PM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?
I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com


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From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 23 15:45:06 2023
From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 21:45:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>

 The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)
Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.
Good luck figuring out the problem.
Regards,Bob Lang


    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  I'm having cooling problems.Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.
Don't know what else it could be.
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com


  
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From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 23 16:03:10 2023
From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:03:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Anthony Parker
References: <1782330929.4649042.1695506590084.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1782330929.4649042.1695506590084@mail.yahoo.com>

In the Runoffs entry list, he's listed as? GT6 driver.
So it is not a wet liner engine.
Regards,Bob Lang
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 18:02:59 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 00:02:59 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.

More digging..

White sludge in valve cover.
Watery oil in tappets.

Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.

Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clean.

We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.
With my recent luck, it could be both.




________________________________
From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)

Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.

Good luck figuring out the problem.

Regards,
Bob Lang


On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com


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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 23 18:31:52 2023
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 00:31:52 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks
Message-ID: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

What are all the cool kids running for rear shocks on their Spitfires?

Marty
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From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Sep 23 21:23:35 2023
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 22:23:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Remaining videos from Ariens Art on Wheels at Road America
 last weekend
Message-ID: <fff69860-ea63-98c7-d6c3-a757f85a7181@tonydrews.com>

2nd best race of the weekend - Group 2 Sunday race.? Great battle with 
Dave Amys again:

https://youtu.be/Ht_ToTud1dM

OK race - Saturday Qualifying race - caught an emergency wheel / tire 
change on the way out on camera, that was fun.

https://youtu.be/RWBprcSxHPQ

Boring race - Kimberly Cup - and I screwed up 4th gear to boot.

https://youtu.be/ZHXWvmD8Cd4

Cheers, Tony Drews


From tr4racing at googlemail.com  Sun Sep 24 01:17:02 2023
From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (tr4racing at googlemail.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 09:17:02 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <002701d9eeb7$1e0fad30$5a2f0790$@gmail.com>

Hi,

 

had this once on a fellow racer car.

Turned out a clogged radiator that closed few remaining open pipes on
temperature.

We replaced the radiator on the track (someone brought a new one) and from
that time never a problem again.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Anthony Parker via Fot
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:03 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

 

I'm having cooling problems.

Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

 

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

 

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses
and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and
coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

 

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the
radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and
coolant shot everywhere.

 

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely
full

 

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles
eventually removing pump prime.

 

Don't know what else it could be.

 

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some
"stop leak" product?

 

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

 

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by
two different trusted engine machinists.

 

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.

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From rocky at spitfire4.com  Sun Sep 24 02:06:21 2023
From: rocky at spitfire4.com (rocky spitfire4.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 08:06:21 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <002701d9eeb7$1e0fad30$5a2f0790$@gmail.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <002701d9eeb7$1e0fad30$5a2f0790$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR05MB6405EB300B41BA80B3399D10EBFDA@BYAPR05MB6405.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

What Chris said, me too. Turned out my rad had most of its tubes plugged, only at least I didn't have to fix it at the track. Local radiator shop diagnosed it, and "rodded it out." That is, he took the top off and ran a rod through most of the tubes. Some were so plugged he could not get the rod through, but it was enough to fix the problem. This was actually the original radiator in my '64 Spitfire and then some 25-30 years old. I later replaced it with a lighter one for weight.

--Rocky Entriken

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Chris Marx via Fot
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 2:17 AM
To: 'Anthony Parker' <solarant at hotmail.com>; 'FOT Triumph' <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Hi,

had this once on a fellow racer car.
Turned out a clogged radiator that closed few remaining open pipes on temperature.
We replaced the radiator on the track (someone brought a new one) and from that time never a problem again.

Cheers
Chris


From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Anthony Parker via Fot
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:03 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
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From nicholsondustin at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 24 11:05:20 2023
From: nicholsondustin at yahoo.com (dustin nicholson)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 13:05:20 -0400
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <C363BD06-CA4D-46DE-98DB-AD90E2B36F1E@yahoo.com>

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From tr4abrad at gmail.com  Sun Sep 24 11:14:47 2023
From: tr4abrad at gmail.com (Brad Eells)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 10:14:47 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks
In-Reply-To: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E92BA40B-F51D-41B0-8844-ACB1B7C65367@gmail.com>

Marty,

I?m not one of the Cool Kids, but the guy that built and formerly drove my car was. 

He had Konis on the rear and I replaced them with Konis.

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2023, at 7:48 PM, marty sukey via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> What are all the cool kids running for rear shocks on their Spitfires?
> 
> Marty
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 24 12:56:51 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 18:56:51 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks
In-Reply-To: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB75012455140FF005A8D445DCD7FDA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

https://www.gazshocks.com/2022/07/04/gaz-adjustable-dampers-for-triumph-herald-spitfire-and-bond-equipe/

Got mine from TS Imported Automotive.


________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of marty sukey via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:31 PM
To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks

What are all the cool kids running for rear shocks on their Spitfires?

Marty
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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Fri Sep 22 18:58:19 2023
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 00:58:19 +0000
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
 <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <SN7PR22MB3834B60E4411D2A5B7ABFE3A99FEA@SN7PR22MB3834.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

To me, it sounds like you may not have the OD wired correctly for racing.  If it is not on his web sites
I ?m am sure  Larry Young would be happy to send you the correct way to wire it.


[image001.png]

John H. Hasty
Of Counsel
Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.
301 S. York St.,
P.O. Box 488
Gastonia, NC 28053
704.864.6751 (p) 704.861.8394 (f)
mhc-law.com<http://mhc-law.com/> | jhasty at mhc-law.com<mailto:jhasty at mhc-law.com>




From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Henry A. Morrison via Fot
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 3:17 PM
To: Nick Black <vintagenick42 at yahoo.com>; Glenn Franco <brakey6666 at gmail.com>
Cc: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

My current overdrive rebuild went so well with me replacing a variety of linings and washers that were shot or just not installed by the previous rebuilder.  I thought all the pressure producing bits looked good so mostly left them alone.  I did the pressure test when I got it all back together and it was close to where it was supposed to be.  I drove the car once and it seemed to work, drove it again and it dropped into overdrive whenever I lifted off the gas and dropped out again when power was re applied.  This is pretty much what the thing was doing when I started the project and I'm sure was the reason for my slower than they should have been lap times at the Cup!

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Cheers, Henry Morrison

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 2:57 PM
To: Nick Black <vintagenick42 at yahoo.com<mailto:vintagenick42 at yahoo.com>>
Cc: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at yahoo.com<mailto:jaboruch at yahoo.com>>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

I have to chime in on issues with the A type overdrive. Thankfully I have NO more A types to overhaul since they are a P.I.T.A. to do.
The hardest part, as stated, is lining up the 2 splines that will allow the mainshaft to nest into the Planetary Gearset and Overrunning Clutch. You basically need at least yourself and a helper to put it together. I probably did 10-12 of these 2 or more years ago. First time we did one we split the adapter plate pulling the O/D on to the transmission. Unfortunately it was welded back together and the repair was a weak spot. If you force the O/D onto the trans when pulling it back together with the 2 nuts on the O/D studs it will break or bend the plate.

The fasteners (6) that hold the plate to the back of the transmission are drilled for safety wire. I used stainless safety wire on those after torquing. Make sure you repeat the way the wire is routed through the bolt heads. I had a couple transmissions leak because I didn't follow the routing  properly. I mistakenly routed some of the wire near the base of the plate fouling the gasket which resulted in an embarrassing 3 comebacks on one transmission due to leaks.
Took awhile to figure it out, dumb mistake.

Glenn 74 TR6 Restored, 68 TR250 Frame Off in Progress, 73 BMW 2002


On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 4:04?PM Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
Joe
I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.

Sent from the wilds of NorCal


On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
?
I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 24 18:54:13 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 00:54:13 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Well...

Finally took the five minutes that I should have weeks ago.

Put a straight edge across the head.
The squish zone above the #2 cylinder is literally squished.
As much at 0.01" toward the center of the cylinder, but more importantly, 0.007" between the coolant passages and the gasket sealing ring.

Cost myself a lot of time, money, and frustration.

Live and learn.

Will try to get the head surfaced tomorrow first thing and then go from there.
Could be cracked inside the water jacket and the valve seats could be warped for all I know.
Though, I did lap the intake and exhaust in that cylinder and everything seemed to be seating properly.

Thanks for everyone's feedback,




________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:02 PM
To: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.

More digging..

White sludge in valve cover.
Watery oil in tappets.

Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.

Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clean.

We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.
With my recent luck, it could be both.




________________________________
From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)

Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.

Good luck figuring out the problem.

Regards,
Bob Lang


On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From robertten1 at aol.com  Sun Sep 24 20:02:48 2023
From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 02:02:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks
In-Reply-To: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1111715774.6459378.1695607368064@mail.yahoo.com>

 Hello Marty,
I had been using Spax for a number of years but got tired of them leaking.? So I have success with the Gaz units the past 8 years on my autocrosser.?
My $.02,Bob T?'64 Spit GT
    On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:53:53 PM EDT, marty sukey via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  What are all the cool kids running for rear shocks on their Spitfires?
Marty_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From moosehd2 at pacbell.net  Sun Sep 24 20:49:40 2023
From: moosehd2 at pacbell.net (Bert Brown)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 02:49:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <C363BD06-CA4D-46DE-98DB-AD90E2B36F1E@yahoo.com>
References: <1695351529.wqz06bs9sk88c8og@webmail.lumos.net>
 <C363BD06-CA4D-46DE-98DB-AD90E2B36F1E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1161369233.5256560.1695610181386@mail.yahoo.com>

 Off topic, but that's FOT member Jerry Barker in the black Spitfire #2 behind your TR3 in the Daytona photo!
Bert Brown    On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 03:36:11 PM PDT, dustin nicholson via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Speaking of Bill Boemler, I have his 1955 TR3 racecar. He ran it in the runoffs a couple times in the 60?s, Car last ran in 1973 and has been untouched since, someday I?ll get it back on track. I?m not surprised to learn about his overdrive mods, this car has a lot slick customizations that I?ve never seen before.
Photos attached of it at Daytona 1969 and now.

Dusty Nicholson?281-871-9623

On Sep 21, 2023, at 11:52 PM, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? 
Wow, Bill Boemmler is a name that I recognize from my time in St. Louis.? He was indeed
a skilled machinist and did some really cool tricks just like Jack described.

Thanks,
John ? 

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:35:35 +0000 (UTC), Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
??I've read a number of responses to this and all are good ideas.? When I was racing with an A-Type overdrive, I met a guy from St. Louis named Bill Boemmler, a TR-3 racer from the 50's & 60's.? Bill was also a skilled machinist and had a small machine shop behind his house.? Everything I know about the A-Type overdrive, I learned from Bill.?The bottom of the adapter plate is fastened by 2 studs, one in each corner.? It generally leaks between these 2 studs.? Bill would drill and tap for two additional small bolts (about 1/2" long), spaced evenly between the 2 studs.? Two holes were drilled in the adapter plate, aligned with two holes which were drilled and tapped into the overdrive housing for a 1/4" - 20 hex bolt.? This, of course, has to be done when the overdrive is apart, and the holes are drilled and tapped into the rear of the O/D housing.? When assembling, it is a tight fit to get these two bolts in between the gearbox housing and the adapter plate, so the bolts need to be short. just long enough to get a firm threading into the O/D housing.? They should be secured with either lock tight or safety wire.?This process is a little hard to explain, so if you want a better description either call me or contact me offline.? I had Bill perform this modification on all of my race and street car overdrives, and after this modification, I never had a leak in this area.?Cheers,?Jack?On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:17:01 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:??I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

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? _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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From mark at bradakis.com  Sun Sep 24 22:22:35 2023
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 22:22:35 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Mail delays
Message-ID: <7343f142-531e-8d11-5cec-d23fb0df2867@bradakis.com>

I'm seeing mail delays of 4, 5 hours or so between the time a message is 
accepted by mailman on Team Net and the time it gets sent out.  It has 
happened before, not sure where the hangup is.  I'll keep looking into 
it, until then my apologies, be patient.

mjb, overpaid and underworked list janitor.

From tr4racing at googlemail.com  Sun Sep 24 23:32:06 2023
From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (tr4racing at googlemail.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 07:32:06 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <001401d9ef71$9fbd8180$df388480$@gmail.com>

If the head has collapsed there, the head is toast.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Anthony Parker via Fot
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 2:54 AM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

 

Well...

 

Finally took the five minutes that I should have weeks ago.

 

Put a straight edge across the head.

The squish zone above the #2 cylinder is literally squished.

As much at 0.01" toward the center of the cylinder, but more importantly,
0.007" between the coolant passages and the gasket sealing ring.

 

Cost myself a lot of time, money, and frustration.

 

Live and learn.

 

Will try to get the head surfaced tomorrow first thing and then go from
there.

Could be cracked inside the water jacket and the valve seats could be warped
for all I know.

Though, I did lap the intake and exhaust in that cylinder and everything
seemed to be seating properly.

 

Thanks for everyone's feedback,

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> >
on behalf of Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net
<mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:02 PM
To: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com <mailto:robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com> >;
FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum 

 

Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.

 

More digging..

 

White sludge in valve cover.

Watery oil in tappets.

 

Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.

 

Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and
clean.

 

We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.  

With my recent luck, it could be both.

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com <mailto:robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >; Anthony
Parker <solarant at hotmail.com <mailto:solarant at hotmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum 

 

The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in
the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or
it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head
gasket.

 

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing
the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are
probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work
out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and
see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is
okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

 

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not
that I ever had that problem. :-)

 

Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system
pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the
coolant from boiling.

 

Good luck figuring out the problem.

 

Regards,

Bob Lang

 

 

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot
<fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

I'm having cooling problems.

Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

 

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

 

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses
and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and
coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

 

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the
radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and
coolant shot everywhere.

 

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely
full

 

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles
eventually removing pump prime.

 

Don't know what else it could be.

 

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some
"stop leak" product?

 

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

 

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by
two different trusted engine machinists.

 

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com  Mon Sep 25 06:04:37 2023
From: spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com (spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:04:37 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks
In-Reply-To: <1111715774.6459378.1695607368064@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <DS0PR15MB562456862CABD0DCE981F760BAFDA@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <1111715774.6459378.1695607368064@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005101d9efa8$74e2b8e0$5ea82aa0$@twcny.rr.com>

Koni?s at all corners. (I was always old school)

 

Russ Moore Spitfire #49 (transferred to new stable)

Driver now retired

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of robertten1--- via Fot
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 10:03 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spitfire Rear Shocks

 

Hello Marty,

 

I had been using Spax for a number of years but got tired of them leaking.  So I have success with the Gaz units the past 8 years on my autocrosser. 

 

My $.02,

Bob T 

'64 Spit GT

 

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 10:53:53 PM EDT, marty sukey via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

What are all the cool kids running for rear shocks on their Spitfires?

 

Marty

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From fasttrs at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 25 06:13:13 2023
From: fasttrs at yahoo.com (Mike Munson)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:13:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1995129056.5338987.1695643993646@mail.yahoo.com>

I had the same problem back in 2016-2017. ?I tried everything including crack checking the head. Changing out the head solved?the problem. Hopefully you have an extra race prepared head.I have seen casting leak on other cars due to lack of casting density.


Mike Munson #28 EP TR6

On Monday, September 25, 2023, 1:40 AM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

#yiv6354514897 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Well...
Finally took the five minutes that I should have weeks ago.
Put a straight edge across the head.The squish zone above the #2 cylinder is literally squished.As much at 0.01" toward the center of the cylinder, but more importantly, 0.007" between the coolant passages and the gasket sealing ring.
Cost myself a lot of time, money, and frustration.
Live and learn.
Will try to get the head surfaced tomorrow first thing and then go from there.Could be cracked inside the water jacket and the valve seats could be warped for all I know.Though, I did lap the intake and exhaust in that cylinder and everything seemed to be seating properly.
Thanks for everyone's feedback,



From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:02 PM
To: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum?<!--#yiv6354514897 p {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}-->Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.
More digging..
White sludge in valve cover.Watery oil in tappets.
Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.
Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clean.
We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.??With my recent luck, it could be both.



From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum?The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)
Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.
Good luck figuring out the problem.
Regards,Bob Lang


On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

I'm having cooling problems.Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.
Don't know what else it could be.
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From fubog1 at aol.com  Mon Sep 25 07:48:16 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:48:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <126325959.3489767.1695649696499@mail.yahoo.com>

 That's not uncommon, depending on which head & how much has been taken off it; the thickness of the flat in the squish varies...
Glen Efinger

    On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 01:42:19 AM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Well...
Finally took the five minutes that I should have weeks ago.
Put a straight edge across the head.The squish zone above the #2 cylinder is literally squished.As much at 0.01" toward the center of the cylinder, but more importantly, 0.007" between the coolant passages and the gasket sealing ring.
Cost myself a lot of time, money, and frustration.
Live and learn.
Will try to get the head surfaced tomorrow first thing and then go from there.Could be cracked inside the water jacket and the valve seats could be warped for all I know.Though, I did lap the intake and exhaust in that cylinder and everything seemed to be seating properly.
Thanks for everyone's feedback,



From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:02 PM
To: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum?Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.
More digging..
White sludge in valve cover.Watery oil in tappets.
Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.
Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clean.
We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.??With my recent luck, it could be both.



From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum?The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)
Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.
Good luck figuring out the problem.
Regards,Bob Lang


On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

I'm having cooling problems.Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.
No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.
Don't know what else it could be.
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From nicholsondustin at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 25 08:59:53 2023
From: nicholsondustin at yahoo.com (dustin nicholson)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:59:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Daytona Runoffs 1969
References: <1210679773.6670669.1695653994367.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1210679773.6670669.1695653994367@mail.yahoo.com>

That?s Jerry?!? How cool.
That photo was taken at a practice session, I got it from a Hemings article a few years ago ?The Last Dance at Daytona? with an amusing caption about how primitive and crude those cars were (mine was painted with a brush), see attached article.? It also shows the Group 44 GT6+ that won the championship (the same car restored by Tim Suddard).
Note, it says the Spitfire is driven by Terry Barker? Jerry?s alter ego?
Dusty Nicholson?281-871-9623

On Sep 24, 2023, at 10:49 PM, Bert Brown <moosehd2 at pacbell.net> wrote:



? Off topic, but that's FOT member Jerry Barker in the black Spitfire #2 behind your TR3 in the Daytona photo!
Bert Brown    On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 03:36:11 PM PDT, dustin nicholson via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Speaking of Bill Boemler, I have his 1955 TR3 racecar. He ran it in the runoffs a couple times in the 60?s, Car last ran in 1973 and has been untouched since, someday I?ll get it back on track. I?m not surprised to learn about his overdrive mods, this car has a lot slick customizations that I?ve never seen before.
Photos attached of it at Daytona 1969 and now.<image1.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg>



 <image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg>
Dusty Nicholson?281-871-9623

On Sep 21, 2023, at 11:52 PM, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? 
Wow, Bill Boemmler is a name that I recognize from my time in St. Louis.? He was indeed
a skilled machinist and did some really cool tricks just like Jack described.

Thanks,
John ? 

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:35:35 +0000 (UTC), Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
??I've read a number of responses to this and all are good ideas.? When I was racing with an A-Type overdrive, I met a guy from St. Louis named Bill Boemmler, a TR-3 racer from the 50's & 60's.? Bill was also a skilled machinist and had a small machine shop behind his house.? Everything I know about the A-Type overdrive, I learned from Bill.?The bottom of the adapter plate is fastened by 2 studs, one in each corner.? It generally leaks between these 2 studs.? Bill would drill and tap for two additional small bolts (about 1/2" long), spaced evenly between the 2 studs.? Two holes were drilled in the adapter plate, aligned with two holes which were drilled and tapped into the overdrive housing for a 1/4" - 20 hex bolt.? This, of course, has to be done when the overdrive is apart, and the holes are drilled and tapped into the rear of the O/D housing.? When assembling, it is a tight fit to get these two bolts in between the gearbox housing and the adapter plate, so the bolts need to be short. just long enough to get a firm threading into the O/D housing.? They should be secured with either lock tight or safety wire.?This process is a little hard to explain, so if you want a better description either call me or contact me offline.? I had Bill perform this modification on all of my race and street car overdrives, and after this modification, I never had a leak in this area.?Cheers,?Jack?On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:17:01 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:??I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.? I have never taken one apart.? Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?? There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able.? Thoughts?? JoeB_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

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From mike.mehl at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 25 10:56:02 2023
From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:56:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] SOVREN fall finale
References: <520565237.6756604.1695660962863.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <520565237.6756604.1695660962863@mail.yahoo.com>

We had rain at Pacific raceways this past weekend. If the 5 races run. Race 3 on Saturday and race 5 on Sunday. Both the last races of the day each day had rain and the only 2 drivers to go out were Jeff Quick and Cameron Mehl in my car . Just won Saturday and Cameron won Sunday.? Everyone else didn't run because of the rain. All a good weekend?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 25 16:09:39 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 22:09:39 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
In-Reply-To: <1995129056.5338987.1695643993646@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <SN7PR19MB75013E9D59BB7BAEBFE7C922D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <106417639.3010802.1695505507000@mail.yahoo.com>
 <SN7PR19MB750153D080F9A7564B039534D7FEA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <PH0PR19MB749557991C0483EDAB1FAC28D7FCA@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <1995129056.5338987.1695643993646@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SN7PR19MB750166122CA8FAA1FFC8F5D5D7FCA@SN7PR19MB7501.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Spare race prepped head???

What is that?

This is my first season in the GT6 after a 15-year build.  Haven't had the time or money to make spares yet.
That's what winter in NH is for.

Got the head shaved this morning.  Everything back together and running normally.

Thanks for everyone's help and wish me luck, Anthony.






________________________________
From: Mike Munson <fasttrs at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 8:13 AM
To: Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

I had the same problem back in 2016-2017.  I tried everything including crack checking the head. Changing out the head solved the problem. Hopefully you have an extra race prepared head.
I have seen casting leak on other cars due to lack of casting density.


Mike Munson #28 EP TR6


On Monday, September 25, 2023, 1:40 AM, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Well...

Finally took the five minutes that I should have weeks ago.

Put a straight edge across the head.
The squish zone above the #2 cylinder is literally squished.
As much at 0.01" toward the center of the cylinder, but more importantly, 0.007" between the coolant passages and the gasket sealing ring.

Cost myself a lot of time, money, and frustration.

Live and learn.

Will try to get the head surfaced tomorrow first thing and then go from there.
Could be cracked inside the water jacket and the valve seats could be warped for all I know.
Though, I did lap the intake and exhaust in that cylinder and everything seemed to be seating properly.

Thanks for everyone's feedback,




________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 8:02 PM
To: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.

More digging..

White sludge in valve cover.
Watery oil in tappets.

Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.

Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clean.

We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.
With my recent luck, it could be both.




________________________________
From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum

The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head gasket.

If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure and see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.

I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)

Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.

Good luck figuring out the problem.

Regards,
Bob Lang


On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.

Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.

Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.

Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and coolant shot everywhere.

No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely full

Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventually removing pump prime.

Don't know what else it could be.

Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "stop leak" product?

Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?

I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked by two different trusted engine machinists.

Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
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From lunkercars at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 25 20:49:52 2023
From: lunkercars at yahoo.com (Greg Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 19:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Fot] SOVREN fall finale
In-Reply-To: <520565237.6756604.1695660962863@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <520565237.6756604.1695660962863@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0DFF5AB6-4D35-410D-9D49-42EF20DA353B@yahoo.com>

?? didn?t run because of the rain?. 
I?ve heard it often but never understood - to me, racing in the rain is as good as it gets. 
What FUN! 
Now boating in the rain is a whole different thing and that?s exactly what I?m doing at the moment ?. 
Wish I?d known of the races at Pacific - glad at least a couple of you had fun!
Greg ?Lunker? Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM.
Cal3-30 ?Mirage?
Everett WA.

> On Sep 25, 2023, at 2:49 PM, Mike Mehl via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?We had rain at Pacific raceways this past weekend. If the 5 races run. Race 3 on Saturday and race 5 on Sunday. Both the last races of the day each day had rain and the only 2 drivers to go out were Jeff Quick and Cameron Mehl in my car . Just won Saturday and Cameron won Sunday.  Everyone else didn't run because of the rain. All a good weekend 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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> 
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From mhado at att.net  Mon Sep 25 16:13:20 2023
From: mhado at att.net (M&M Hado)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:13:20 -0500
Subject: [Fot] A-type OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <701443378.3201546.1695252218899@mail.yahoo.com>
 <50170EAE-C6D2-4105-A4BB-0607F2F338E3@yahoo.com>
 <CAN=KnFTNf-JCSc5-q_dJ7PywcC-TAXtwdP5gWpV4LQHQVLs1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <SN7P223MB0669EB22BDE4EF81F3E04D9E90FFA@SN7P223MB0669.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <009701d9effd$7f970bb0$7ec52310$@att.net>

Henry,

 

Sorry for the late reply but please see my post of last Thursday regarding overdrive springs.  I?ve seen the issue you describe when the problem doesn?t go away after checking the hydraulics or electrical.  If a ?long? spring is where one of the short ones should be, it will coil bind and prevent the clutch from moving far enough to contact the brake ring fully.  It only takes one spring in the wrong place to hold back the clutch sufficiently to prevent full contact with the brake ring.  It may hold intermittently but will slip under load, or acceleration.  Be sure to check your springs for compressed length since they may be the same length otherwise and it?s hard to tell a ?short? one from a ?long? one.

 

Mike Hado

.  

 

From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Henry A. Morrison via Fot
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 2:17 PM
To: Nick Black; Glenn Franco
Cc: Joe Boruch; FOT Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks

 

My current overdrive rebuild went so well with me replacing a variety of linings and washers that were shot or just not installed by the previous rebuilder.  I thought all the pressure producing bits looked good so mostly left them alone.  I did the pressure test when I got it all back together and it was close to where it was supposed to be.  I drove the car once and it seemed to work, drove it again and it dropped into overdrive whenever I lifted off the gas and dropped out again when power was re applied.  This is pretty much what the thing was doing when I started the project and I'm sure was the reason for my slower than they should have been lap times at the Cup!  

 

Any suggestions on what to do next? 

 

Cheers, Henry Morrison

 

  _____  

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 2:57 PM
To: Nick Black <vintagenick42 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at yahoo.com>; FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] A-type OD leaks 

 

I have to chime in on issues with the A type overdrive. Thankfully I have NO more A types to overhaul since they are a P.I.T.A. to do. 

The hardest part, as stated, is lining up the 2 splines that will allow the mainshaft to nest into the Planetary Gearset and Overrunning Clutch. You basically need at least yourself and a helper to put it together. I probably did 10-12 of these 2 or more years ago. First time we did one we split the adapter plate pulling the O/D on to the transmission. Unfortunately it was welded back together and the repair was a weak spot. If you force the O/D onto the trans when pulling it back together with the 2 nuts on the O/D studs it will break or bend the plate.

 

The fasteners (6) that hold the plate to the back of the transmission are drilled for safety wire. I used stainless safety wire on those after torquing. Make sure you repeat the way the wire is routed through the bolt heads. I had a couple transmissions leak because I didn't follow the routing  properly. I mistakenly routed some of the wire near the base of the plate fouling the gasket which resulted in an embarrassing 3 comebacks on one transmission due to leaks.

Took awhile to figure it out, dumb mistake.

 

Glenn 74 TR6 Restored, 68 TR250 Frame Off in Progress, 73 BMW 2002 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 4:04?PM Nick Black via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Joe  

I agree, it?s the bolts that hold the od plate to the transmission. I recall that the torque on these bolts is about 25 lbs. the bolts are totally soft and will stretch forever with one or two additional pounds? throw them away and use Allen head bolts drilled for safety wire. The stock bolts stretch and the plate gets loose and leaks.

 

Sent from the wilds of NorCal 





On Sep 20, 2023, at 8:52 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

? 

I have a leaky a-type OD in my street TR4 that looks like it's leaking from near the adapter plate.  I have never taken one apart.  Can I just separate the OD from the trans and replace the gaskets or the adapter plate (I've heard that Quantum Mechanics sells an uprated plate and am checking with John to see if he has one) and then reassemble without needing to take the OD apart further?  There is a youtube video that shows an OD being separated and it looks like it is do able. 

 

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From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 27 18:55:27 2023
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 19:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All.
  It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering
what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's
already sand blasted if that matters..
   Thanks.  P.J.
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Wed Sep 27 21:21:25 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 20:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>

I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.  
Dave H.  
 
On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
 
 
Hi All.
  It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
   Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
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From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Sep 28 00:00:04 2023
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 01:00:04 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>

Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that 
came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony

On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
> I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I 
> think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush 
> on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are 
> perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about 
> anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than 
> Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good 
> start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.
> Dave H.
> On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
> wrote:
> Hi All.
> ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just 
> wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car 
> frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..
> ? ?Thanks.? P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 28 06:47:56 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:47:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
Message-ID: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>

 I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
  _______________________________________________fot at autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________
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From cartravel at pobox.com  Thu Sep 28 08:52:01 2023
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 09:52:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2c2dae6-7fc5-2f2a-5c72-7c1f47fccf9c@pobox.com>

Look for a sandblaster that will prime it with black epoxy primer. It 
has a nice satin finish, no need to topcoat.

On 9/27/2023 7:55 PM, McKearn McKearn via Fot wrote:
> Hi All.
> ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just 
> wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car 
> frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..
> ? ?Thanks.? P.J.
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel at pobox.com
>
>


From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 09:33:13 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 10:33:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>

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From solarant at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 28 11:03:59 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:03:59 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PH0PR19MB74956F46A37C4A8831222AB5D7C1A@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

I know Imron as aircraft paint.
Meant to handle lots of sunlight and lots of abrasion.




Anthony Parker, Mechanical Engineer
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 11:35 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
Subject: Re: [Fot] Frame paint

I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.

Jack

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony

On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.
Dave H.

On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net><mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


Hi All.
  It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
   Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 28 12:16:37 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 18:16:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>

 Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!? Strong stuff.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander4505 Donald DrCedar Falls, IA 50613The-vintage-racer.comGasketinnovations.comCell: ?319.464.4711


On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
  _______________________________________________fot at autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________
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From ac at camoletti.ch  Thu Sep 28 12:43:28 2023
From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:43:28 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a301d9f23b$ac4b5270$04e1f750$@camoletti.ch>

Merci Jack ! 

I was about to answer the same : Dupont (now Cromax) Imron 700 is a 2k polyurethane paint, HD stuff very durable, made for industrial use. I use it all the time for suspension parts, brackets, etc.

But you need to spray it and know what you are doing, it is indeed very toxic, and cannot be brushed. 

Use the TDS and prime correctly (epoxy is a good recommendation, such as Cromax 840/845, but not too thick, again check the TDS and use correctly with the correct equipment).

Otherwise get it simply powdercoated (in a lighter coulour to easily see cracks, and leaks from components)

A presto !

Alex Camoletti

 

De : Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Jack Wheeler via Fot
Envoy? : jeudi 28 septembre 2023 14:48
? : fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
Objet : Re: [Fot] Frame paint

 

I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.

 

Jack

 

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

 

 

Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony

On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:

I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.   

Dave H.   

  

On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot  <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

  

  

Hi All. 

  It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters.. 

   Thanks.  P.J. 

_______________________________________________ 
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 28 14:19:29 2023
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:19:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <00a301d9f23b$ac4b5270$04e1f750$@camoletti.ch>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <00a301d9f23b$ac4b5270$04e1f750$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <209660449.1451671.1695932369522@mail.yahoo.com>

 Now that powder coating has become readily available, and reasonably cheap, that would seem to be the way to go.? I use it for all suspension parts, brackets, etc.? Not sure most facilities could handle a frame!
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:43:29 PM EDT, Alexandre Camoletti <ac at camoletti.ch> wrote:  
 
 
Merci Jack?! 

I was about to answer the same?: Dupont (now Cromax) Imron 700 is a 2k polyurethane paint, HD stuff very durable, made for industrial use. I use it all the time for suspension parts, brackets, etc.

But you need to spray it and know what you are doing, it is indeed very toxic, and cannot be brushed. 

Use the TDS and prime correctly (epoxy is a good recommendation, such as Cromax 840/845, but not too thick, again check the TDS and use correctly with the correct equipment).

Otherwise get it simply powdercoated (in a lighter coulour to easily see cracks, and leaks from components)

A presto?!

Alex Camoletti

 ?

De?: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Jack Wheeler via Fot
Envoy??: jeudi 28 septembre 2023 14:48
??: fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
Objet?: Re: [Fot] Frame paint

 ?

I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.

 ?

Jack

 ?

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony

On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:

I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.?? 

Dave H.?? 

? 

On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

? 

? 

Hi All. 

? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters.. 

? ?Thanks.? P.J. 

_______________________________________________ 
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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 15:33:43 2023
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean Tetterton)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:33:43 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR19MB74956F46A37C4A8831222AB5D7C1A@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <PH0PR19MB74956F46A37C4A8831222AB5D7C1A@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3t97rnAqs_m1Mh-kdp0fSkzw31Cpwxep3RGo-XU9aaJZtgg@mail.gmail.com>

I painted my 58 TR3A in Imron in 1974. Still looked good when it hit the
tire wall at VIR in 2011.
Was a street car until 1999 and never stayed in a garage until it became a
race car.
Dean T.


On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 5:26?PM Anthony Parker via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I know Imron as aircraft paint.
> Meant to handle lots of sunlight and lots of abrasion.
>
>
>
>
> Anthony Parker, Mechanical Engineer
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jack Wheeler via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2023 11:35 AM
> *To:* fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Frame paint
>
> I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the
> frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint
> available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very
> toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
>
> Jack
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <
> fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came
> to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
>
> Cheers, Tony
> On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>
> I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think
> 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've
> used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to
> the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might
> be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an
> epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the
> primer.
> Dave H.
>
> On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All.
>   It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering
> what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's
> already sand blasted if that matters..
>    Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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>
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>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From tlizzard at msn.com  Thu Sep 28 15:36:47 2023
From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:36:47 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR19MB74956F46A37C4A8831222AB5D7C1A@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <PH0PR19MB74956F46A37C4A8831222AB5D7C1A@PH0PR19MB7495.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CH3P221MB1119AC07AC495D73D56EBC4EC3C1A@CH3P221MB1119.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

The chassis on my street car TR3 was painted in black Imron in 1980, it still looks good.

Terry Stetler

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Anthony Parker via Fot<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 5:27 PM
To: Jack Wheeler<mailto:jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com>; fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>; Tony Drews<mailto:tony at tonydrews.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Frame paint

I know Imron as aircraft paint.
Meant to handle lots of sunlight and lots of abrasion.




Anthony Parker, Mechanical Engineer

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 11:35 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
Subject: Re: [Fot] Frame paint

I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.

Jack

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony
On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.
Dave H.

On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net><mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


Hi All.
  It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
   Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
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From moosehd2 at pacbell.net  Thu Sep 28 17:14:29 2023
From: moosehd2 at pacbell.net (Bert Brown)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 23:14:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1656935681.248895.1695942869974@mail.yahoo.com>

 Dupont Imron should be used with a supplied air respirator, not just an air purifying respirator.? Imron is one of the best.? If you don't know the difference I encourage you to research respirators at your local paint store.
I have had good luck just using PPG DP90 epoxy primer as a frame paint, it is a direct to metal (DTM) paint and is durable.??I hate applying POR15, but I admit I do use it for touchup.
Bert Brown
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 09:12:58 AM PDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Thu Sep 28 18:13:09 2023
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 20:13:09 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVZqkHt2ZTBKVGYzo+kaphDqhEvMA77+U95-f5AuafO5Ew@mail.gmail.com>

I used to have SCUBA tanks painted in Imron. They stopped allowing them to
be refilled because you couldn't see any cracks/ damage.  Keep that in mind
on a race car chassis, you don't want a shiny, hard, paint job to hide
stress cracks,

mike h

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 7:20?PM Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Hi Joe.  When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell
> it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!  Strong stuff.
>
> Jack
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <
> joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What
> wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.
>
> Joe Alexander
> 4505 Donald Dr
> Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> The-vintage-racer.com
> Gasketinnovations.com
> Cell:  319.464.4711
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the
> frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint
> available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very
> toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
>
> Jack
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <
> fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came
> to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
>
> Cheers, Tony
> On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>
> I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think
> 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've
> used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to
> the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might
> be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an
> epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the
> primer.
> Dave H.
>
> On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All.
>   It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering
> what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's
> already sand blasted if that matters..
>    Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Thu Sep 28 18:32:51 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave Hogye)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:32:51 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
Message-ID: <71BDE9C3-8E16-425A-8442-A9395835AD6A@comcast.net>

Here?s my frame in epoxy primer just before gray Rust-oleum.  It?s holding up great. 
Dave H. 
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Sent from my iPhone

From dlhogye at comcast.net  Thu Sep 28 18:41:02 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave Hogye)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 17:41:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
Message-ID: <2A55F1ED-F77C-45EC-ADE3-841903C1B01C@comcast.net>

Finished in Rust-oleum. 
I?m sure the finish on the frame will last longer than me. Hopefully I?ll have at least a couple more decades to know for sure. 
I don?t plan on going off-roading or driving in snow and salty roads. 
Dave H. 

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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 28 20:22:19 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:22:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <209660449.1451671.1695932369522@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAGAaPU+ZG8Cf+1k7V+wTcN=Tc9W1Mj94MAx1UueYuXHASeXHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1722165236.731317.1695871285271@connect.xfinity.com>
 <a8120165-386b-e261-429d-4e68330e1391@tonydrews.com>
 <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <00a301d9f23b$ac4b5270$04e1f750$@camoletti.ch>
 <209660449.1451671.1695932369522@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1026650864.363918.1695954139262@mail.yahoo.com>

 Jesse Prather has chassis and cages powder coated for many of the cars that he has been building.? Looks great, but out of my budget.? JoeB??
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 09:21:45 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Now that powder coating has become readily available, and reasonably cheap, that would seem to be the way to go.? I use it for all suspension parts, brackets, etc.? Not sure most facilities could handle a frame!
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:43:29 PM EDT, Alexandre Camoletti <ac at camoletti.ch> wrote:  
 
 
Merci Jack?! 

I was about to answer the same?: Dupont (now Cromax) Imron 700 is a 2k polyurethane paint, HD stuff very durable, made for industrial use. I use it all the time for suspension parts, brackets, etc.

But you need to spray it and know what you are doing, it is indeed very toxic, and cannot be brushed. 

Use the TDS and prime correctly (epoxy is a good recommendation, such as Cromax 840/845, but not too thick, again check the TDS and use correctly with the correct equipment).

Otherwise get it simply powdercoated (in a lighter coulour to easily see cracks, and leaks from components)

A presto?!

Alex Camoletti

 ?

De?: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Jack Wheeler via Fot
Envoy??: jeudi 28 septembre 2023 14:48
??: fot at autox.team.net; Tony Drews
Objet?: Re: [Fot] Frame paint

 ?

I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.

 ?

Jack

 ?

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

 ?

 ?

Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony

On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:

I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.?? 

Dave H.?? 

? 

On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 

? 

? 

Hi All. 

? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters.. 

? ?Thanks.? P.J. 

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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 28 20:31:51 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 02:31:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>

 Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.? The hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when inhaled.? Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every exposure.? Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.? Be sure to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied air respirator.??
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!? Strong stuff.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander4505 Donald DrCedar Falls, IA 50613The-vintage-racer.comGasketinnovations.comCell: ?319.464.4711


On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Thu Sep 28 22:08:35 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:08:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZqkHt2ZTBKVGYzo+kaphDqhEvMA77+U95-f5AuafO5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAO0FjVZqkHt2ZTBKVGYzo+kaphDqhEvMA77+U95-f5AuafO5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1285355633.209291.1695960515355@connect.xfinity.com>

Rust-oleum from any hardware store will do the job.  Easy rattle can touch-up when you need it.  I think I used 2 quarts on my frame, after DP90 epoxy primer.  It still looks like it did when I finished it 12 or more years ago.  Maybe POR as an option for a slightly harder barrier.  Good preparation is more important than the exterior finish.  
What are we saving our frames from?  They are not daily driven in all climates and conditions like they were when they were new.  Powdercoating is like dipping the frame in plastic.  It is overkill.  I guess you could blast some rust proofing inside the frame rails while you're at it.  It will then most likely last forever.  
I've powder coated things like the brake master box to protect it from brake fluid, the roll cage, because it is exposed to lots of potential scratches and scrapes, and my custom made front cross member that the sway bar is bolted, because of it's direct exposure to road and track debris.  
Triumph frames had no primer from the factory.  Only a thin coat of black paint.  My car's frame had most of it original black paint still in tack.  It did have cracks near the front suspension mounts and rust through from the inside at the lower end of the diagonal spring tower support on one side.   Extra durable paint would have not helped.  
Dave H.
 

> On 09/28/2023 5:13 PM PDT Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>  
>  
> I used to have SCUBA tanks painted in Imron. They stopped allowing them to be refilled because you couldn't see any cracks/ damage.  Keep that in mind on a race car chassis, you don't want a shiny, hard, paint job to hide stress cracks,
>  
> mike h
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 7:20?PM Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> >  
> > Hi Joe.  When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!  Strong stuff.
> >  
> > Jack
> >  
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com mailto:joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  
> >  
> > In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.
> > 
> > Joe Alexander
> > 4505 Donald Dr
> > Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> > The-vintage-racer.com
> > Gasketinnovations.com
> > Cell:  319.464.4711
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > > On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >  
> > > I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
> > >  
> > > Jack
> > >  
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Tony
> > > 
> > > On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > >  
> > > I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.  
> > > Dave H.  
> > >  
> > > On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> mailto:fot at autox.team.net wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Hi All.
> > >   It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
> > >    Thanks.  P.J.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net
> > > 
> > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > > 
> > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> > > 
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> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Thu Sep 28 22:53:06 2023
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 21:53:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZqkHt2ZTBKVGYzo+kaphDqhEvMA77+U95-f5AuafO5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAO0FjVZqkHt2ZTBKVGYzo+kaphDqhEvMA77+U95-f5AuafO5Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <989384720.209555.1695963186762@connect.xfinity.com>

I still own my first car, a '63 Galaxie 500XL.  In 1980, when I was 17, I took the car apart to restore the front half of the car in the garage of my parental home.  I removed the engine and trans and all of the front body panels.  A high school friend that drove a tow truck, helped me pull and reinstall the engine with his tow truck.  I refreshed the top end of the engine.  I had the inner fenders, radiator support and other parts media blasted and used rattle can satin or semi-gloss black Rust-oleum to refinish the panels similar to the factory finish.  I prepared by hand the fire wall and other details, rattle can painted everything myself.  I had zero special tools back then.  To this day, the engine compartment is in the same exact condition that it was when I finished it all those years ago.  It still looks excellent and factory.  Even the underside of the inner fenders.  There are no bad stone chips or corrosion of any kind.  I had the rocker covers and air cleaner housing painted by a professional Ford restoration specialist to match the factory gold finish.  My brother and I have shared the car since we bought it together in 1979 for $600.   
I swear by Rust-oleum.  Do not underestimate it's use and value.  
Dave H. 

> On 09/28/2023 5:13 PM PDT Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>  
>  
> I used to have SCUBA tanks painted in Imron. They stopped allowing them to be refilled because you couldn't see any cracks/ damage.  Keep that in mind on a race car chassis, you don't want a shiny, hard, paint job to hide stress cracks,
>  
> mike h
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 7:20?PM Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> >  
> > Hi Joe.  When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!  Strong stuff.
> >  
> > Jack
> >  
> > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com mailto:joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  
> >  
> > In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.
> > 
> > Joe Alexander
> > 4505 Donald Dr
> > Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> > The-vintage-racer.com
> > Gasketinnovations.com
> > Cell:  319.464.4711
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > > On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >  
> > > I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
> > >  
> > > Jack
> > >  
> > > On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Tony
> > > 
> > > On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > >  
> > > I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.  
> > > Dave H.  
> > >  
> > > On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> mailto:fot at autox.team.net wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Hi All.
> > >   It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
> > >    Thanks.  P.J.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > fot at autox.team.net mailto:fot at autox.team.net
> > > 
> > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > > 
> > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
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From sjanzen at me.com  Fri Sep 29 05:54:30 2023
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 07:54:30 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A0C78A2B-FB0D-4FB9-A2DF-8E18B6FF801D@me.com>

Excellent caution note, thanks!
I?d always understood that powder coating could hide cracks below the surface - on a frame, for example, just as chroming hides cracks on suspension parts you may want to crack check.  Maybe appropriate for a show car, but for a race car, not so good.  Is this incorrect? 

On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.  The hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when inhaled.  Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every exposure.  Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.  Be sure to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied air respirator.  

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:


Hi Joe.  When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!  Strong stuff.

Jack

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:


In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


> On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.  It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.  The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
> 
> Jack
> 
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Grey will show cracks better than black.  POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
> 
> Cheers, Tony
> 
> On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
> 
> I'd suggest POR 15.  Depending on the color, the number changes.  I think 15 is black.  Gray is something else, maybe 10.  Spray or brush on.  I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.  POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.  If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.  
> Dave H.  
>  
> On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hi All. 
>   It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already sand blasted if that matters..
>    Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________ 
> fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 
> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Fri Sep 29 07:36:18 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 13:36:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <969414190.8868851.1695994578440@mail.yahoo.com>

 This is good advice!!!
I almost killed myself with I think Dupont Chroma 1 or some such in 97, still get a reaction when I get a whiff of it.Now I use a 3M PAPR, even when mixing & cleaning up.And of course y'all know that no mask/filter system will work if one has a lot of facial hair...
Glen Efinger

    On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 01:36:56 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.? The hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when inhaled.? Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every exposure.? Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.? Be sure to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied air respirator.??
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!? Strong stuff.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander4505 Donald DrCedar Falls, IA 50613The-vintage-racer.comGasketinnovations.comCell: ?319.464.4711


On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
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From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 29 07:46:37 2023
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:46:37 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPUZD+fJne1Euk+Q4knp6zDUC9LgkmpKz97frgR_h1V3Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the responses.
    P.J.
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Fri Sep 29 08:22:47 2023
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:22:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <A0C78A2B-FB0D-4FB9-A2DF-8E18B6FF801D@me.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
 <A0C78A2B-FB0D-4FB9-A2DF-8E18B6FF801D@me.com>
Message-ID: <778067804.8905456.1695997367149@mail.yahoo.com>

 Absolutely correct Scott, chrome, powder coat, heavy paint is a huge no-no on suspension components, for reasons mentioned...
Glen Efinger

    On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 09:40:47 AM EDT, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Excellent caution note, thanks!I?d always understood that powder coating could hide cracks below the surface - on a frame, for example, just as chroming hides cracks on suspension parts you may want to crack check. ?Maybe appropriate for a show car, but for a race car, not so good. ?Is this incorrect??

On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:31 PM, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
 Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.? The hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when inhaled.? Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every exposure.? Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.? Be sure to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied air respirator.??
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!? Strong stuff.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander4505 Donald DrCedar Falls, IA 50613The-vintage-racer.comGasketinnovations.comCell: ?319.464.4711


On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.

Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
  _______________________________________________fot at autox.team.nethttp://www.fot-racing.comDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________
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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 29 09:32:01 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:32:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <969414190.8868851.1695994578440@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
 <969414190.8868851.1695994578440@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <745412587.6214252.1696001521175@mail.yahoo.com>

 PAPRs are good especially when someone has facial hair.? The problem with isocyanate and respirator cartridges (including those that go on a PAPR) is that there is no indication when they stop filtering isocyanate out.? Need to change the cartridges often enough to be effective.? Can't leave cartridges sitting around exposed to contaminants and moisture which reduce their effectiveness.? JoeB
    On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 09:36:20 AM EDT, fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com> wrote:  
 
  This is good advice!!!
I almost killed myself with I think Dupont Chroma 1 or some such in 97, still get a reaction when I get a whiff of it.Now I use a 3M PAPR, even when mixing & cleaning up.And of course y'all know that no mask/filter system will work if one has a lot of facial hair...
Glen Efinger

    On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 01:36:56 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.? The hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when inhaled.? Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every exposure.? Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.? Be sure to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied air respirator.??
    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended!? Strong stuff.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.

Joe Alexander4505 Donald DrCedar Falls, IA 50613The-vintage-racer.comGasketinnovations.comCell: ?319.464.4711


On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



? I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
Jack

    On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  
Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
 
Cheers, Tony
 
 On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
  
 
 I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush on.? I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.??   Dave H.??   ?   On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:    ?   ?   Hi All. 
  ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..   ? ?Thanks.? P.J.   _______________________________________________ 
 fot at autox.team.net 
 
 http://www.fot-racing.com 
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
 Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net 
 
 
  
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From david.c.cutter at gmail.com  Fri Sep 29 10:59:09 2023
From: david.c.cutter at gmail.com (David Cutter)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:59:09 -0400
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver
Message-ID: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>

FoT Amici,

Please welcome Andrew Devinish from Monroe, MI.  He is prepping a '71
Spitfire for next season.  A few years back, Andrew raced an E-production
GT6 in SCCA and aspires to get back on the track in vintage.

[image: original-8EFED6F0-9D99-42DF-9AD2-F2A0FCE02E82.jpeg]

Mark, his email is cc'd above.

Cheers,
Dave and Shelby
Spitfire #142
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From sonomascot at aol.com  Fri Sep 29 13:06:04 2023
From: sonomascot at aol.com (Scott Meredith)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:06:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] FOT website
References: <878964241.9089550.1696014364325.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <878964241.9089550.1696014364325@mail.yahoo.com>

How do I go about getting my car on the list of Spitfire race cars?It will have to be edited a bit -Scott MeredithSanta Rosa, CA.
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From cartravel at pobox.com  Fri Sep 29 13:18:30 2023
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:18:30 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <969414190.8868851.1695994578440@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <344638290.8330967.1695905276624@mail.yahoo.com>
 <020D5D6F-CF2E-46A0-BE76-F3DDF4E4C94F@gmail.com>
 <318012918.3619517.1695924997538@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1713733772.5548603.1695954711356@mail.yahoo.com>
 <969414190.8868851.1695994578440@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <206882e5-639e-34cb-a444-586851bbeb2d@pobox.com>

It is worse than just an allergic reaction, isocynates are a carcinogen 
and are not trapped by a? normal respirator. That is why a supplied air 
respirator is recommended. I've got one I'm trying to sell if anyone is 
interested.

I think I've used everything that has been recommended. I did powder 
coat on one project and decided I don't like it because it is so thick, 
e.g. any threads that get powder coated will have to be chased. If you 
want a satin finish, I'd just use epoxy primer. I also like 
polyurethanes (Dupont Imron or PPG Durethane) if you want a glossy 
finish. Those products are no longer available, but there are other 
polyurethane enamels.
 ?- Larry Young

On 9/29/2023 8:36 AM, fubog1 via Fot wrote:
> This is good advice!!!
> I almost killed myself with I think Dupont Chroma 1 or some such in 
> 97, still get a reaction when I get a whiff of it.
> Now I use a 3M PAPR, even when mixing & cleaning up.
> And of course y'all know that no mask/filter system will work if one 
> has a lot of facial hair...
>
> Glen Efinger
>
> On Friday, September 29, 2023 at 01:36:56 AM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot 
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Most of the two part urethane paints are hazardous like Imron.? The 
> hardener is isocyanate, which can cause severe allergic reactions when 
> inhaled.? Once allergic to it, a person can react to it with every 
> exposure. Isocyanate is the chemical that was responsible for the 
> deaths in the Bopal, India chemical disaster many years ago.? Be sure 
> to use a good tight fitting cartridge respirator when spraying these 
> urethanes, but I think most safety instructions say to use a supplied 
> air respirator.
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:23:56 PM EDT, Jack Wheeler via 
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Joe.? When I bought the Imron for my car in 1980, the guy wouldn't 
> sell it to me unless I also bought the respirator he recommended! 
> Strong stuff.
>
> Jack
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:33:26 AM EDT, Joe Alexander 
> <joealexandervintage at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> In the 70s we were painting John Deere Tractors in DuPont Imron. What 
> wasn?t done by robots was done by painters in HazMat Suits.
>
> Joe Alexander
> 4505 Donald Dr
> Cedar Falls, IA 50613
> The-vintage-racer.com
> Gasketinnovations.com
> Cell: ?319.464.4711
>
>
>> On Sep 28, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot 
>> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I don't know if it is even still available, but years ago I painted 
>> the frame on my race car with Dupont Imron.? It was the most durable 
>> paint available at the time, and my experience reflected that.? The 
>> stuff is very toxic, so you must use a very good respirator.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 02:28:28 AM EDT, Tony Drews via 
>> Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Grey will show cracks better than black.? POR is the first thing that 
>> came to mind for me, but it's been YEARS since I used it.
>>
>> Cheers, Tony
>>
>> On 9/27/2023 10:21 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>> I'd suggest POR 15.? Depending on the color, the number changes.? I 
>> think 15 is black.? Gray is something else, maybe 10.? Spray or brush 
>> on. I've used Rustoleum as the touchup rattle spray cans are 
>> perfectly matched to the quart cans, and you can get it just about 
>> anywhere.? POR products might be a little more durable than 
>> Rustoleum.? If the frame is bare metal, an epoxy primer is a good 
>> start, but with POR I "think" you can skip the primer.
>> Dave H.
>> On 09/27/2023 5:55 PM PDT McKearn McKearn via Fot 
>> <fot at autox.team.net> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> Hi All.
>> ? It's been a long time since I've painted a frame and I'm just 
>> wondering what the latest / greatest thing to use is for a race car 
>> frame ? It's already?sand blasted if that matters..
>> ?Thanks.? P.J.
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com <http://www.fot-racing.com>
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>> <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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>> <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot>
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>> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net 
>> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> http://www.fot-racing.com 
>> <http://www.fot-racing.com> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>> <http://www.team.net/donate.html> Archive: 
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com 
>> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
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From bownes at seiri.com  Thu Sep 28 20:40:31 2023
From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri)
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2023 22:40:31 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Frame paint
In-Reply-To: <CH3P221MB1119AC07AC495D73D56EBC4EC3C1A@CH3P221MB1119.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CH3P221MB1119AC07AC495D73D56EBC4EC3C1A@CH3P221MB1119.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BE97F5C5-0F34-4F56-BCEB-E4F37F381962@seiri.com>

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From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Sep 29 17:35:53 2023
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:35:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver
In-Reply-To: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3536c560-b989-ab15-fa5b-28f06b6ecd8b@bradakis.com>

Okay, he has been added.

mjb.


From joealexandervintage at gmail.com  Fri Sep 29 17:27:57 2023
From: joealexandervintage at gmail.com (Joe Alexander)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:27:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver
In-Reply-To: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E4B83E61-E764-4C17-9E6C-C55E37C3D852@gmail.com>

?

Joe Alexander
4505 Donald Dr
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
The-vintage-racer.com
Gasketinnovations.com
Cell:  319.464.4711


> On Sep 29, 2023, at 6:15 PM, David Cutter via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> FoT Amici,
> 
> Please welcome Andrew Devinish from Monroe, MI.  He is prepping a '71 Spitfire for next season.  A few years back, Andrew raced an E-production GT6 in SCCA and aspires to get back on the track in vintage.
> 
> <original-8EFED6F0-9D99-42DF-9AD2-F2A0FCE02E82.jpeg>
> 
> Mark, his email is cc'd above.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave and Shelby
> Spitfire #142
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/joealexandervintage at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 30 06:23:37 2023
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 12:23:37 +0000
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver
In-Reply-To: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DS0PR15MB5624A33B87BD9C4FC7BC9AC7BAC7A@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Welcome Andrew. Good luck with the Spitfire.

Marty Sukey
#8 Spitfire
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of David Cutter via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 12:59 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: Andrew Devenish <gt6racer at msn.com>
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver

FoT Amici,

Please welcome Andrew Devinish from Monroe, MI.  He is prepping a '71 Spitfire for next season.  A few years back, Andrew raced an E-production GT6 in SCCA and aspires to get back on the track in vintage.

[original-8EFED6F0-9D99-42DF-9AD2-F2A0FCE02E82.jpeg]

Mark, his email is cc'd above.

Cheers,
Dave and Shelby
Spitfire #142




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From gt6racer at msn.com  Sat Sep 30 10:45:51 2023
From: gt6racer at msn.com (Andrew Devenish)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:45:51 +0000
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver
In-Reply-To: <DS0PR15MB5624A33B87BD9C4FC7BC9AC7BAC7A@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAC5qWeA4yf13kkyXhA8CL_w6tPjJq6UqSkx+suKMBYzYwMX-Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DS0PR15MB5624A33B87BD9C4FC7BC9AC7BAC7A@DS0PR15MB5624.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <IA0PR10MB68912A07B31E90AFB3F3BF3487C7A@IA0PR10MB6891.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks, Marty, I hope to see you on the track at PIB next year !
Hello to all on the forum. I am an ex SCCA EP racer with a GT6, now drive a '79 Spitfire on the road, and as Dave mentioned I am prepping a '71 Spitfire for vintage next year. As an aside, I also race Sailboats on Lake Erie..
I look forward to learning and supporting the forum.

Thank you,
Andrew
________________________________
From: marty sukey <trmarty at hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 8:23:37 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>; David Cutter <david.c.cutter at gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Devenish <gt6racer at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver

Welcome Andrew. Good luck with the Spitfire.

Marty Sukey
#8 Spitfire
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of David Cutter via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2023 12:59 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: Andrew Devenish <gt6racer at msn.com>
Subject: [Fot] New member-Spitfire driver

FoT Amici,

Please welcome Andrew Devinish from Monroe, MI.  He is prepping a '71 Spitfire for next season.  A few years back, Andrew raced an E-production GT6 in SCCA and aspires to get back on the track in vintage.

[original-8EFED6F0-9D99-42DF-9AD2-F2A0FCE02E82.jpeg]

Mark, his email is cc'd above.

Cheers,
Dave and Shelby
Spitfire #142




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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 30 14:24:56 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 20:24:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA Runoffs
References: <1550003053.515364.1696105496742.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1550003053.515364.1696105496742@mail.yahoo.com>

I just noticed that after all his tribulations with his cylinder head last week and a blown engine before that, that Anthony Parker finished 13th this morning at the Runoffs, in his EP GT6.? Congratulations Anthony!? Looked like a tough field against BMW Z3s and Mazda RX7s.? He was still on the lead lap, too.??
There was also a TR8, driven by Jeff Young, but unfortunately he only did one lap.? I have not watched the race yet, but I am wondering if there was a crash, since a few cars only did 1 lap?
JoeB
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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 30 14:54:29 2023
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe Boruch)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 20:54:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA Runoffs
In-Reply-To: <1550003053.515364.1696105496742@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1550003053.515364.1696105496742.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1550003053.515364.1696105496742@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2007297655.521856.1696107269517@mail.yahoo.com>

 Short video clip showing the TR8 getting knocked around.? Sad to see.? There is also a glimpse of Anthony getting past the carnage in his green GT6.? Can't tell why the TR8 was sideways in the track to start with.? He got hit by a BMW and then a Honda Civic in this clip, after he was already sideways in middle of track.SCCA Runoffs EP Incident


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
SCCA Runoffs EP Incident


 |

 |

 |




    On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 04:48:42 PM EDT, Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I just noticed that after all his tribulations with his cylinder head last week and a blown engine before that, that Anthony Parker finished 13th this morning at the Runoffs, in his EP GT6.? Congratulations Anthony!? Looked like a tough field against BMW Z3s and Mazda RX7s.? He was still on the lead lap, too.??
There was also a TR8, driven by Jeff Young, but unfortunately he only did one lap.? I have not watched the race yet, but I am wondering if there was a crash, since a few cars only did 1 lap?
JoeB_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From tr4abrad at gmail.com  Sat Sep 30 16:40:58 2023
From: tr4abrad at gmail.com (Brad Eells)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 18:40:58 -0400
Subject: [Fot] FOT website
In-Reply-To: <878964241.9089550.1696014364325@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <878964241.9089550.1696014364325@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <935C65A5-56A6-4266-B5B1-974705B26CCF@gmail.com>

The FOT website has been sorely neglected for some time.

You are the current cover car on the ?Racing the Triumph Spitfire? Facebook Group!

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 9:39 PM, Scott Meredith via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> How do I go about getting my car on the list of Spitfire race cars?
> It will have to be edited a bit -
> Scott Meredith
> Santa Rosa, CA.
> <Screenshot 2023-09-29 12.02.13 PM.png>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From solarant at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 30 20:20:09 2023
From: solarant at hotmail.com (Anthony Parker)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2023 02:20:09 +0000
Subject: [Fot] SCCA Runoffs
In-Reply-To: <1550003053.515364.1696105496742@mail.yahoo.com>
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Thanks Joe!

In southern PA on the way back to NH.

That was a very busy 5 weeks. New differential build, new rear uprights, new oil pan, new steering rack, new carbs, new throttle actuation system, new air dam, and rebuilt engine.  I got lucky that the crank was savable, and that race rods happened to be in stock.

Finishing the SCCA RunOffs, in any position, driving my GT6+ is a 15-year dream come true.
I'm very happy and had a great week at the event.

Car handled great and felt fast.  Of course, compared to the front runners I wasn't fast at all.  13 seconds/lap slow and 35 MPH slower at the speed trap.  Got lots of work to do.

I swear I met the owner or friend of an owner of every GT6 imported to the US during this event.  Constant stream of people coming up to look at the car, share stories, and offer congratulations or paint criticisms.

Thanks for everyone's help over the last month or so.





________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Joe Boruch via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2023 4:24 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] SCCA Runoffs

I just noticed that after all his tribulations with his cylinder head last week and a blown engine before that, that Anthony Parker finished 13th this morning at the Runoffs, in his EP GT6.  Congratulations Anthony!  Looked like a tough field against BMW Z3s and Mazda RX7s.  He was still on the lead lap, too.

There was also a TR8, driven by Jeff Young, but unfortunately he only did one lap.  I have not watched the race yet, but I am wondering if there was a crash, since a few cars only did 1 lap?

JoeB
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