From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 07:09:29 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello FOT!So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
What say you, FOT?
Cheers all!Jake & Karen Jacobsen
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From tr4abrad at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 07:25:06 2021
From: tr4abrad at gmail.com (Brad Eells)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 06:25:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ACE7E1CD-034E-408D-9F0C-CDA683351CAC@gmail.com>

I have Spitfire cams stamped ?Kastner?.

I suppose it?s all within the realm of possibility.

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2021, at 6:10 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello FOT!
> So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
> What say you, FOT?
> 
> Cheers all!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> <1031211343.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 08:43:49 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1063473759.1462725.1635777829616@connect.xfinity.com>

I would think Kas stamped it himself.  What is the engine number on the block?  Might it be a TR4 engine?  Just curious.
Neat find.
Dave H. 


>     On 11/01/2021 6:09 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT!
>     So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
>     What say you, FOT?
> 
>     Cheers all!
>     Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From terrysopher at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:22:53 2021
From: terrysopher at gmail.com (Terry Sopher)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 14:22:53 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat
Message-ID: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.   

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry

From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:29:00 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 18:29:00 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Put-In-Bay race
In-Reply-To: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
References: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45144A93789B45AF83289956BA8A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Yes, I had low expectations going to this event but to my surprise we had a really good time.  We will be back next year if they have it again.

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Terry Sopher via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 2:22 PM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fot-racing.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C6c16c9b23e2e4de8af1d08d99d64ac41%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637713877978508916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=dadDwDP60W1Wci%2ButGvaEjfLIUdhk0%2B0t5fxjRTcbMA%3D&amp;reserved=0

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From don at dcphotos.com  Tue Nov  2 12:06:47 2021
From: don at dcphotos.com (don at dcphotos.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 13:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat (and steel synchros)
Message-ID: <CCB984B8-CF26-4651-ACC3-2C46A43E9DDC@dcphotos.com>

Terry, 
I have a seat from a MK1, MK2 or I should say seat frame in VERY rough shape. 
I can send you pics of it.

Also, I am in the process of testing Rick Parent?s steel synchros with carbon fiber linings that fir the Spitfire/GT6 larger synchro gears.
I should be able to report on them in a couple weeks. So far they really look the business.

Don

DON COUCH PHOTOGRAPHY
www.dcphotos.com
(512)-680-3540

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From bownes at seiri.com  Fri Nov  5 09:58:41 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:58:41 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Street TR4 up for auction
Message-ID: <CAJ1+nOQ4O2RHb1n0nhB=kJojYbKdtJtMvFirOPb+TfJXgUNL_w@mail.gmail.com>

Found this in a local auction listing amongst ~150 Packards and 40's/50's
Cadillacs. Looks like a decent restoration project for anyone interested.

No financial interest...

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?auctionId=727&page=info&lotId=217&startLotId=189&direction=next&categoryId=&filter=&showThumbNails=true#maincontent

Safe Travels!
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From sherryjimmy6116 at att.net  Fri Nov  5 11:59:10 2021
From: sherryjimmy6116 at att.net (sherry robyn)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:59:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR6 part and other race related pieces for sale
In-Reply-To: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1501272552.1639426.1636135150725@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Hi All,

I shut down? a TR6 race car a bit ago and have these pieces for sale.? If interested, I will? send photos.
TR6 oil cooler with spin on filter adapter and hoses - $175
Light weight alternator - $40
Longacre Tire/Brake Pyrometer with probe - $75
Jegs type canister gas filter with fittings - $20

All prices are plus shipping.? Thanks for looking.
Jim  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 18:05:43 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
Message-ID: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From 4msonset at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 18:32:17 2021
From: 4msonset at gmail.com (J Wagner)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 1964 TRIUMPH TR4, NO RUST, AMAZING BODY,
 FOR RESTORATION - cars &...
Message-ID: <0D23D8A8-06A5-4C57-8FA7-A0497F05C65E@gmail.com>

I have no connection, but thought it might interest someone.


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/la-habra-1964-triumph-tr4-no-rust/7404112421.html

From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 20:04:06 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <211814413.1359345.1636250646254@connect.xfinity.com>

Don's email address is, mccoydp at sbcglobal.net mailto:mccoydp at sbcglobal.net . 
Dave H. 

>     On 11/06/2021 5:05 PM DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From 65356sc at msn.com  Sun Nov  7 12:52:33 2021
From: 65356sc at msn.com (LEE FOLLANSBEE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 19:52:33 +0000
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Wow those look like bargains.

Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 15:50:13 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:50:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
Message-ID: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

From bownes at seiri.com  Sun Nov  7 16:01:53 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:01:53 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A059E9DC-015C-426F-A3B2-1016DBE7E821@seiri.com>

I?m very glad they are on the other side of the country!!!

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 14:52, LEE FOLLANSBEE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Wow those look like bargains.
> 
> Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
> To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
>  
> Hello Friends, 
> I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
> I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
> Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
> The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
> Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
> I have cold start video of both cars.
> For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
> Best,
> Dave Hogye
> 831-234-4928
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com
> 
> 
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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 16:07:24 2021
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:07:24 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>

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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:35:57 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
 <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <599707673.1378300.1636328157144@connect.xfinity.com>

I agree.  If I had the time and energy, I'd snatch these cars up.  Too many cars and too little time.  I've known of these cars for a few months, but didn't want to share them widely until I had a chance to see them myself.  I think they good cars and the engines sound great with the handling setup fully sorted.  They started instantly and ran crisp and clean, revved easy and set to idle perfectly.  They need tires and new seat belts.  Other than that, I'd say they are ready to go and would sure fit in a few vintage organizations, VARA being one of them, without much effort.   Although they are with lots of race patina, they are rust free and the frames are apparently in great condition. 
The Spit has GT6 brakes and front suspension and GT6 gearbox, special rear axles and 4 link with the standard leaf spring arrangement.  The TR6 has Jag brakes on the front, close ratio TR6 box.  The TR6 has both crank fire and distributor in place and can be switched to distributor for cold starting.  Both have welded diffs.  
The TR6 has a set of earlier rounded flared fenders.  Two new spare crank shafts and a bunch of other good spares.  Spit has spare body panels, blocks, heads, pistons...all kinds of stuff.  All spares are well organized, neatly boxed and clearly marked. 
Don has placed an add for the cars in next month's SCCA The Wheel magazine.   
Dave H.


>     On 11/07/2021 11:52 AM LEE FOLLANSBEE <65356sc at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Wow those look like bargains.
> 
>     Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
>     To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:50:04 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave Hogye)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:50:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 and Spitfire photos
Message-ID: <7319F901-3D99-4E55-A371-ECBE5EDFA361@comcast.net>



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Sent from my iPhone

From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 16:51:18 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <5B8DC37F-2764-41F9-AECA-7A696BDF0A5C@icloud.com>

Also, the O-rings for the operating lever seem to be slightly too small to do a good job sealing the side cover. Has anyone found a good source of these O-rings that fit properly?  Same question for the selector rod o-rings on the top cover. Those always seem too small and sit too far in their respective bores to seal against the cover. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 5:07 PM, Dean <tr3a58dean at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.
> Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.
>  
> Dean T.
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Greg Blake via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: Fot
> Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
>  
> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>  
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>  
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>  
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum.
>  
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>  
> Greg
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>  
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr3a58dean at gmail.com
>  
>  
>  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:11:34 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:11:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cold start video
Message-ID: <1188296385.1379437.1636330294753@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy Spitfire race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEDCCCg0aBg
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:27:32 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 race car cold start video
Message-ID: <1788459547.1379959.1636331252207@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy TR6 race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mecCy9yTLVg
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From tr4 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov  7 18:07:22 2021
From: tr4 at wi.rr.com (Steve Yott)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 19:07:22 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1636333647.2539.fot@autox.team.net>

I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.Steve Yott
-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21  5:08 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.?Dean T.??Sent from Mail for Windows?From: Greg Blake via FotSent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PMTo: FotSubject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks?I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. ?To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. ?When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again??I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. ?Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. ?Greg?Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr3a58dean at gmail.com???
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From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Sun Nov  7 20:55:36 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:55:36 +1000
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0S_Eo1gnMX47d6DT=OVpZ+QkTgkj4LiNN=rmTFu_p4LA@mail.gmail.com>

the adapter plate was indeed wired ex factory for older models, eg TR2, TR3.

By the time TR6 came along, there was a version of "loctite"

Ive rebuilt hundeds and never had this happen

Suggest you check the tapped holes in the back of the case

terry



On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:51 AM Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was
> removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely
> attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed
> backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover.
> Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of
> these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every
> seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work
> to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.
> Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded
> into aluminum.
>
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>
> Greg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au
>
>
>
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From vintagenick42 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 21:00:30 2021
From: vintagenick42 at yahoo.com (Nick Black)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 04:00:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
 <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <535329805.544532.1636344030948@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Greg etal,Remove the bolts holding the plate to the trans and deposit them in the nearest trashcan!The torque figure on those bolts is something like 20 or 25 pounds and at 26 pounds they stretch. You will find the bolts neatly wired and loose as the forces of the od engaging stretches them, and then the leaking starts.I use internal socket head bolts (to get the small head) and drill them for safety wire. The bolts are much higher strength and do not stretch...no more leaks.
clean floors in norcalnick    On Sunday, November 7, 2021, 05:12:33 PM PST, Steve Yott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.
The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.


Steve Yott

-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.

Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.

?

Dean T.

?

?

Sent from Mail for Windows

?

From: Greg Blake via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
To: Fot
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

?

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

?

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

?

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

?

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

?

Greg

?

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________

fot at autox.team.net

?

http://www.fot-racing.com

?

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html

Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr3a58dean at gmail.com

?

?

?
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Mon Nov  8 07:57:33 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 14:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>

 I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 09:32:23 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:32:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw:  Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1922608350.1475065.1636389143104@mail.yahoo.com>

 I have rebuilt dozens of these, both for my race car and a number of street cars.? For the race car, I found a machinist (ex TR-3 racer) who could drill and tap 2 additional 1/4" holes in the adapter plate & gearbox housing, to the inside of the 2 bottom bolts that are about 6" apart.? These bolts are as close to the gearbox housing as he could get, and still fit them in.? I think we used a short (3/4" long?) 1/4" grade 8 bolt with Locktite.? This seemed to reduce the leakage considerably.
If Bryan Brazelton has one of my old overdrive gearboxes around, perhaps he could check the exact location of the 2 additional bolts and let the FOT know.? I know I sold at least one close ratio overdrive gearbox with the car and a straight close ration 4 speed.? Don't know exactly what is with the car today.
Cheers.
Jack Wheeler

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021, 10:01:27 AM ESTSubject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
  I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov  8 15:57:10 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 23:57:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1127186637.37294184.1636412230667.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>

Very good idea not to use gaskets that can compress! (like "gasket makers"). 
Marcel 


Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 8 november 2021 15:57:33 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use. 
I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite. 
Done deal... 

Glen Efinger 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm 
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again? 

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the. Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg 

Sent from my iPhone 
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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 18:26:58 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Dellorto dhle45
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB451479CCCBF96BC62DA197B7BA929@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Is anybody running a Dellorto dhle 45 on their Spitfire?  I purchased one locally because it was there and want to give it a try after I rebuild it over the winter. I'm hoping somebody is running one (or possible a Webber 45 dcoe) that might be able to give me some tips on their setup to shorten my learning curve.

Thanks,
Marty
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From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:04:59 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:04:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>

Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:19:32 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:19:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.? I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.? This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.? It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.
After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.? They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.? In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.
The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.? I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.? Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.
Good luck.
Jack Wheeler? 

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 07:25:49 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 09:25:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
and they're on the way.
NFI, just passing this on

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
> keep it all in one piece.
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
> pistons floating around on the net.
>
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
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>
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From ac at camoletti.ch  Tue Nov  9 09:44:38 2021
From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:44:38 +0100
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons
 and liners
Message-ID: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>

Gents, 

I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference).

 

De : Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy? : mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
? : Erik Jacobsen
Cc : FOT Triumph
Objet : Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.

NFI, just passing this on

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

 

mike h

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 10:13:26 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 12:13:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>

I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?

The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
Phil G

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
> 
> mike h
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Tue Nov  9 10:24:01 2021
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04 at tr4racer.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).

From paulricco at att.net  Tue Nov  9 10:57:09 2021
From: paulricco at att.net (Paul Ricco)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <E00A5FCC-257F-48B6-A035-232C9DD7F1AE@att.net>

As a very good industrial trainer once told me while I was being certified to work with products that his company manufactures, 

?There has been millions of dollars in research spent to develop the products that we engineer and sell.  They all work perfectly if you follow the directions provided with them.  However, most people do not follow the directions and they get less than ideal results?

So in short I have learned that there are a lot of good approaches, if they are executed properly and the owner is happy with the path chosen.

Paul Ricco

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
>> Gents,
>> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
>> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
>> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
>> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
>> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
>> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
>> which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net
> 
> 


From dmar823 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:20:54 2021
From: dmar823 at gmail.com (Don Marshall)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> >
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 14:53:20 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] FW:  TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <001a01d7d5b4$3652bae0$a2f830a0$@comcast.net>

 

Jack,

I use the Wiseco pop ups for the same reason. I have a big investment in my head and so I didn?t want to mill it so far as to sacrifice reliability.

My last one cracked at a water jacket.

I use BFE supplied liners  ( LA Sleeve ).

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Jack Wheeler via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Erik Jacobsen <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com <mailto:kekjacobsen at yahoo.com> >
Cc: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.  I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.  This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.  It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.

 

After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.  They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.  In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.

 

The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.  I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.  Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.

 

Good luck.

 

Jack Wheeler  

 

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 15:03:59 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
 <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 15:06:56 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.
> jg
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
> Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
> To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
> Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners
>  
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> > 
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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> 
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 16:59:02 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
 <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01f701d7d5c5$c5aecd80$510c6880$@comcast.net>

Yeah I don?t think that?s gonna buff out.

 

From: Philip Gott <vfracing at aol.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:07 PM
To: Jim Gray <toodamnfunky at comcast.net>
Cc: Don Marshall <dmar823 at gmail.com>; yellow04 at tr4racer.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 



Sent from my iPhone





On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

?

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com <mailto:yellow04 at tr4racer.com> 
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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_______________________________________________
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Tue Nov  9 19:55:57 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 21:55:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <74343089-471D-4286-B063-85F3D6B3DBFE@icloud.com>

I?ve been running a TR3 with the same Wiseco flattop 87mm pistons since 2009. I?ve rebuilt the motor twice since the initial build in 2009. Both times it was a broken crank, but the pistons survived. 

The latest version, I built in 2010, has 13:1 compression. 

This setup has proven to be extremely reliable. Last time I had the head off was in 2012. The car is pretty competitive as well.  Lately I seem to be out driving the brakes and transmission, but that?s another topic.  

I think someone else made the point already, but pick a path and be methodical in preparation and execution and you will be happy. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:05 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
> 
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3 at icloud.com
> 
> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Wed Nov 10 07:27:04 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <449850039.284964.1636554424886@mail.yahoo.com>

 The lump on the piston sure will disrupt flame travel & swirl, and that can lead to detonation.You'll be able to see it on the chamber/piston top; it'll be perfectly clean where there hasn't been any burn.A .050ish lump works well if the edges are all chamfered so that the mixture isn't trapped anywhere, but the pistons with a real "dome" that don't require much head milling are worthless in a race engine.
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Camoletti via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: 'Mike Harmuth' <ofracer at gmail.com>; 'Erik Jacobsen' <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com>
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2021 11:44 am
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

<!--#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 p.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 li.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv4466933430 a:link, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 a:visited, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Garamond", "serif";color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv4466933430 .yiv4466933430MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430WordSection1 {}-->Gents, I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference). ?De?: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy??: mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
??: Erik Jacobsen
Cc?: FOT Triumph
Objet?: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners ?I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original?owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.NFI, just passing this on ?https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5 ?mike h ?On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.?? ?Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 09:08:59 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:08:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
References: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B7207FA9-30B1-4227-9091-73F928D363AD@yahoo.com>

Years ago I had a local speed shop order me a couple of sets of hardened steel lightweight wrist pins for my 87 mm pistons.  Worked great.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 12:14 PM, Philip Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?
> 
> The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
> Phil G
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
>> NFI, just passing this on
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>> 
>> mike h
>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> Good morning FoT!
>>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
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From hankgiffin at cox.net  Thu Nov 11 00:35:33 2021
From: hankgiffin at cox.net (Henry Giffin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 02:35:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 ENGINE PARTS FOR SALE
Message-ID: <000c01d7d6ce$b71654a0$2542fde0$@cox.net>

FoT - I am again selling these TR3/4 engine parts I purchased for a project
no longer in the works.  The attachment lists the parts as I bought them,
plus comments. A very experienced machinist went through them and
unfortunately there were problems with some of them the seller was not aware
of.  The machinist's appraisal and comments are below.

   I do not see a time when I will need these parts.  The seller does not
need them back.  I paid $5K and the seller said he had over $7700 in them.
But the head is probably not usable for racing, the cam is not usable, the
rods need reconditioning, and the Moldex crank needs a regrind and hardening
if you want to use a .030 crank.  There is still a lot of good stuff here.
I will accept a reasonable offer.  

   I also have 3 parts at the bottom of this email not included in the
engine parts (Flywheel, Clutch, Detroit Locker)

   I can bring everything to the Turkey Bowl if desired.  Thanks, Hank

 

MACHINIST'S COMMENTS :

"New parts appear OK to include-

Tappets 8X

Roller rocker assy

EC510 lower gasket set

Steel head gasket

Bronze v/guides 8X 

Clevite .010 pair bearings rod 8X.

Set King main bearings .020.

Set copper figure-8

Set CPK868 040 liners

Set Wiseco 87mm custom pistons w/Grant ring set

Rolon timing chain

 

Used OK-

ARP head stud set 

Adj cam gear (some wear)

Rear seal housing

 

 

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.  (Hank - this
head is probably usable on a street car but not for racing)

 

Crank, it'll take $500-600 to get this crank liquid mag crack check, ground
to spec, and balanced.

Then it's a .030 regrind, and I would be concerned about how deep the
hardness is.

This may warrant a call to Moldex. ( Hank- Moldex says to regrind and
reharden would be $450)

Core value if not cracked, maybe 1k?

You have to consider that at .030, its life is about over, and a new one
would be a much better investment.  (Hank - yes, but this is a lot less
expensive.  So a trade off)

Crankshaft is undated used & reground Moldex, dimensions as follows-

Mains (std spec 2.4790-2.4795)

1- 2.4587

2- 2.4584

3- 2.4591

This indicates a regrind to .020 and a variation of .0007 would preclude
setting oil clearances to spec. The mains will require regrinding to .030
spec.

 

Rod journals (std spec 2.0866-2.0866)

1- 2.0659

2- 2.0756

3- 2.0752

4- 2.0756

The #1 journal has been reground to .020. the others .010.  (Hank - not
understandable why this was done)

#1 journal also has several areas with original surface unground, indicating
prior damage to journal which necessitated a .020 regrind.

There is a .0004 variation between the other 3 journals and they are ground
outside the limit for regrind, so it's unlikely that they would fall within
the specs for required oil clearance anyway.

The rod journals will require grinding to .030 to exact spec.

 

The rear seal journal is 2.4994 and in good condition.

 

Connecting rods-

Small-end bushes appear to be new.

Big-end housing bore surface as removed from engine, not cleaned.

Heavy blackening/deposits on housing bores indicates poor bearing back
surface contact with housing bore prior to what was likely catastrophic
bearing failure.

Also some isolated burnished areas where bearing shells were starting to
'shuffle" after bearings started to deform & parting lines closed up.

Mic #1 rod housing bore, in spec, approx .0005 "cap shift".

Will require reconditioning to some degree as required.

(note these rods best done by manufacturer vs local machine shop.

 

Cylinder head-

Small port big-valve 4A head w/port work.

Thickness is 3.170 and nearly all inlet shrouding has been removed

Center water port crack present and multiple drillings/pins crack
repair/stop drilled.

Crack-check surface center, see photos (I can provide if interested - Hank).

All valves/seats are too deep.

Did not check further, will require teardown, full crack-check & inspection
to determine suitability for use but will require valve seats to restore
valve height, at a minimum.

The cracks may not preclude using it but better used original cores & new
are available as alternatives.

Valves, retainers, springs all appear as new.

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.

 

 

Block- Did NOT check housing bore, deck for square etc.

It's apparent that the liner seats have been machined, new cam bearings
fitted & ?

Will require detailed cleaning and inspection to determine condition.  (Hank
- the block appears to be very usable)

 

Oil pump-

Used/recon?

Housing is brass-bushed.

Disassemble, oil ports have been opened up & rotors appear to be OK but it
has excessive shaft clearance/wobble, and way too much end clearance & end
plate wear.

The pump would be marginally serviceable but have a short service life.

 

Used parts including hardware, sealing block, crank gear, dist shaft & gear,
oil sump, crank snout, stock pulley etc included but not inspected.

Some are routine replacement items, some usable as cores, some junk, not a
lot of real value in these parts in any case."

 

OTHER PARTS NOT INCLUDED WITH ENGINE PARTS:

Fidanza flywheel #172441 T4 new in box (cost $369) - $200

Tilton Clutch 7 ? #908Q/7261 new in box - $150

Detroit Locker used excellent (Summit sells new for $469) - $100

 

Thanks, Hank

 

Hank Giffin

757-375-1491

hankgiffin at cox.net

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From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Nov 11 14:39:27 2021
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [TR] TR4 race car
In-Reply-To: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
References: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
Message-ID: <6c108bf5-74aa-56de-32b8-ea92ee5678c0@bradakis.com>

That paint scheme looks vaguely familiar.? Anyone know this car?



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[TR] TR4 race car
Date: 	Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:06:04 -0500
From: 	auprichard at uprichard.net
To: 	'Triumph Mailing List' <triumphs at autox.team.net>



Listers:? I have come across a TR4 race car which is basically a body on 
a frame:? no engine, transmission or interior.? Also no title or vin plate.

I have had the car in the air and the frame appears really solid.? 
Likewise the body is remarkably rust-free.? The fenders are metal, but 
they have been flared to accommodate wider wheels.

I have many more pics if anyone is interested in knowing more.

The car is located in Jackson, Michigan. I?d like to get $1200 for it, 
but I am open to offers.

Andrew Uprichard
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** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 21:51:26 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
Message-ID: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello FOT,

If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.

Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa

The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.

Curt Johnston
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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 23:28:05 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 22:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
In-Reply-To: <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
References: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>
 <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1280077004.350212.1636698485916@connect.xfinity.com>

Chris,

You're absolutely correct on the trans gearing.  Down the straight I was at 7000+ RPM in 5th, and only doing about 115.  It is a BL 5 speed from the Huffaker TR8 and this track showed how wrong it is.  

The original trans for the car is a Spitfire 4 speed, but it was built without a reverse (the reverse gear pin would sheer off all the time).  Over the winter, Joe Carr (the original Huffaker mechanic for the car) has committed to engineer the trans to get a working reverse.  The 4 speed gearing should work better with the rear end.  You may have noticed, that I didn't drop into second gear when needed as well.  Shifting down to second was nearly impossible about half the time.  We just can't get parts to make things right.  Of course a dog box would solve the problems, but I'm trying to keep the car original.  Cheers.

Curt Johnston

>     On 11/11/2021 9:57 PM tr4racing at googlemail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Hi Curt,
> 
> 
>     nice ride. Good line.
> 
>     Odd gearing?.the jump 3rd to 4th is too short, and also from 4th to 5th you?re running out of revs all the time and the engine seem not linking to rev too high.
> 
> 
>     The TR6 at the beginning in front of you has an interesting damping?.almost no damping.
> 
>     Walzing Mathilda back end J
> 
> 
>     Cheers
> 
>     Chris
> 
> 
> 
>     Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Curt Johnston via Fot
>     Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2021 05:51
>     An: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Betreff: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT,
> 
>      
> 
>     If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.
> 
>      
> 
>     Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa
> 
>      
> 
>     The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.
> 
>      
> 
>     Curt Johnston
> 
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 10:48:35 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 12:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVa5aEXz-zpF8hdB=F=LJxkFhHnO33d2JeoX8x6hV4gWNA@mail.gmail.com>

Just an update on the pistons I ordered from Paeco. I received them
yesterday and they were not Venolia, as advertised, but Ross. They were the
specs advertised but not the brand, I asked for a refund and received a
prepaid return label this morning.

Buyer beware

thanks
mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:25 AM Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
> new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
> gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
> they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
> good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
> and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>
> mike h
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
>> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
>> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
>> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
>> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
>> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
>> keep it all in one piece.
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
>> pistons floating around on the net.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov 14 17:36:24 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:36:24 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
Message-ID: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>

I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 

Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 

Sent from my iPhone

From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 18:23:58 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> 
> 

From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Mon Nov 15 04:10:05 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:10:05 +1000
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun
gear , annulus and 3-gear set

Terry


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal
> to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear
> appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way
> to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems
> good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue
> color.
> >
> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different
> gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just
> skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying
> around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a
> shot.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > fot at autox.team.net
> >
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
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>
>
>
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov 15 05:22:08 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 13:22:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <612967081.55726738.1636978928532.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>



I don't think the blue color does mean a thing. Some Fot members, like Chuck Gee, will know for sure. 
The standard overdrive ratio's of the Triumph cars (TR, saloons and Stag) are not very different. The ratio is often marked in the casing : something like 25 or 22, but none of the standard ratio's will improve the 3 O/D use that much : the power loss through the overdrive will not be compensated by the better overall gearing, but it can come in handy sometimes to engage 3rd O/D for just a couple of seconds and then again go to 3rd 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "Bob Kramer" <rkramer56 at gmail.com> 
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 15 november 2021 12:10:05 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild 

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set 
Terry 


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 


JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread. 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 
> 
> I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> _______________________________________________ 
> [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 
> 
> [ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 
> 
> Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
> Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com ] 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
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_______________________________________________ 
fot at autox.team.net 

http://www.fot-racing.com 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
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From rjl6n at cstone.net  Mon Nov 15 06:47:17 2021
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (R. John Lye)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:47:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>

JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rjl6n at cstone.net


?

From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 08:37:42 2021
From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:37:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>

 The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 09:31:28 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:31:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
 <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1017086544.844007.1636993888194@mail.yahoo.com>

 When I raced at a long track with some tight turns, like Road Atlanta or Road America, I used a 4.3 rear end gear with the Dolomite close ratio gears and an A-Type overdrive.? This combination gave me a good second gear for the tight turns (e.g. turn 7 at Road Atlanta), and the overdrive gave me a good top end for the long straights at both tracks.
Turns 5 and 6 at Road America is a good example of where you might use 2nd gear direct for turn 5, an upshift into 2nd overdrive on the hill up to turn 6, then back down to 2nd direct for turn 6.
I hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jack

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 10:38:14 AM EST, Robert Lang via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From cartravel at pobox.com  Mon Nov 15 09:42:43 2021
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:42:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fa9362b-aad3-1ead-6910-9e3650681207@pobox.com>

Greg, you did not mention what ratios you have. During my short racing 
career I tried numerous gear combinations. 20% jumps seem to be about 
right for the upper gears in our cars, which is what a standard A-type 
overdrive gives (22% or 0.82). The standard gearbox ratios give about a 
30% jump between 3rd and 4th, while the close ratio gears are closer to 
20%, so standard gears give a 3rd overdrive which is 10% lower than 4th, 
while with a close ratio box they are essentially the same. The 
advantage of the overdrive is to give a useable gear between 2nd and 
3rd. I don't see how you can improve on the combination of an OD and 
close ratio box with a 4.55 rear. I found it useful to have two ways to 
get the same gear because sometimes it is easier/quicker to shift the OD 
rather than the transmission. Everyone say overdrives are temperamental 
and add weight. I never found mine to be a problem and a small 
improvement in gearing can easily make up for the extra weight.

The alternative OD ratios I've seen are larger than 20%. You'd have to 
go to a very large OD ratio to get a useable 3rd-OD which is between 3rd 
and 4th. Some of the alternate OD ratios are probably better for highway 
cruising.

On 11/15/2021 5:10 AM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot wrote:
> there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the 
> sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set
>
> Terry
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot 
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with
>     the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>     > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot
>     <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>     >
>     > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car.
>     Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color
>     now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by
>     over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective,
>     just concerned about the slight blue color.
>     >
>     > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of
>     different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and
>     4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I
>     have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a
>     combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>     >
>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > fot at autox.team.net
>     >
>     > http://www.fot-racing.com
>     >
>     > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>     >
>     >
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>     http://www.fot-racing.com
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From alfetta95 at optonline.net  Mon Nov 15 12:50:35 2021
From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (Alfetta95)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:50:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
Message-ID: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?   Should I just toss it and buy new?   

Todd

From vfracing at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 13:12:55 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 20:12:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
References: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>

when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? 

Todd
_______________________________________________
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From steve at artwithcars.com  Mon Nov 15 13:16:07 2021
From: steve at artwithcars.com (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 12:16:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>

Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve


> On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> when in doubt, throw it out!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
> Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
> 
> Friends
> 
> I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?  Should I just toss it and buy new?  
> 
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
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From rek46 at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 14:14:43 2021
From: rek46 at aol.com (rek46)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:14:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
Message-ID: <1415254763.2007961.1637010883911@mail.yahoo.com>

USE ONLY DISTILLED WATER....ALL? DRUG STORES HAVE IT.
?
In a message dated 11/15/2021 3:36:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, fot at autox.team.net writes:?
Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve?

On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends?I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? ?Todd_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com??_______________________________________________
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Mon Nov 15 14:38:29 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:38:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again. 

Great stuff. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This is one of those emails to save.  Great info, especially the part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
> 
> I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.  The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
> 
> I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft is set up for RHD. 
> 
> 
> Bob Kramer
> 
> 
>> OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best! The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is. 
>> 
>> To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
>> 
>> Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
>> 
>> As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top. We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear. What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate! 
>> 
>> The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings! 
>> 
>> The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
>> 
>> I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
>> 
>> Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
>> 
>> Henry Frye
>> 
>> From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
>> Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>  
>> Henry,
>> 
>> Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?  I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair. 
>> 
>> That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces. 
>> 
>> Here is a screen shot from the Moss description. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> ?
>>> I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
>>> 
>>> I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing. 
>>> 
>>> Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
>>> 
>>> I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
>>> 
>>> That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD. 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> Sent from phone
>>> From: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
>>> Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>>  
>>> Henry 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!   Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.  The endurance TR6 has the close ratio set.  It is easiest to start with a 73 or later TR6 box. 
>>>  
>>> Bob Kramer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hey Bob,
>>> 
>>> I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!
>>> 
>>> Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.
>>> 
>>> https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
>>> To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>> 
>>> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
>>> > 
>>> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
>>> > 
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > fot at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> > 
>>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>>> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Tue Nov 16 07:43:43 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:43:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1703120853.2265488.1637073824079@mail.yahoo.com>

 Very good write-up Henry!How I long for the days of the blue & white box marked TKC454...

Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again.?
Great stuff.?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:



?This is one of those emails?to save.? Great info, especially the?part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.? The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft?is set up for RHD.?


Bob Kramer


OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best!?The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is.?
To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top.?We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear.?What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate!?
The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings!?
The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
Henry Frye
From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry,
Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?? I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair.?
That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces.?
Here is a screen shot from the Moss description.?


Sent from my iPhone




?I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing.?
Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD.?
Henry FryeSent from phoneFrom: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry?
Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!? ?Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.? The endurance TR6 has the close?ratio set.? It is easiest to start with a 73 or later?TR6 box.??
Bob Kramer


Hey Bob,

I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!

Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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_______________________________________________
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 08:17:14 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the
spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the
smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem
revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has
successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast
on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars,
a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke
and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides")
I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than
once)?

thanks
mike h
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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 09:42:23 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:42:23 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45146C71E8B0B033CA4CB65EBA9A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker is the 1500 magic man. ?

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 10:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:19:34 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:19:34 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:24:21 2021
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:24:21 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?
Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From vfracing at aol.com  Wed Nov 17 15:28:47 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:28:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
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 <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <1933981738.1164154.1637188127182@mail.yahoo.com>

FADING AWAY NOT TOO QUICKLY I HOPE!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Barr, Scott <sbarr at mccarty-law.com>
Cc: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2021 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?
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Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.? It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.? Cross-drilled, etc.? I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).? I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.? Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.?
 
 ?
 
And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
 
 ?
 
Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.? Some day.? After I retire. ?Probably.
 
 ?
 
Scott (B.)
 
 ?
 
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf OfMike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
 
 ?
 
Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
 
 ?
 
I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
 
 ?
 
Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
 
 ?
 
thanks
 
mike h
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Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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From lunkercars at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 16:30:55 2021
From: lunkercars at yahoo.com (Greg Hilyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:30:55 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
References: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <78051C64-183F-49C8-A0DC-081945257CF4@yahoo.com>

I thought the saying was 
?Old lawyers never retire - they just loose their appeal?.
I?ll show myself out now??
Greg ?Lunker? Hilyer
Albuquerque NM


> On Nov 17, 2021, at 3:24 PM, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ? Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances. 
>>  
>> And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
>>  
>> Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.
>>  
>> Scott (B.)
>>  
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
>> To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
>>  
>> Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
>>  
>> I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
>>  
>> Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
>>  
>> thanks
>> mike h
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>> Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --===============2670542546735504675==--
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/lunkercars at yahoo.com
> 
> 
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From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:09:11 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 15:09:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
Message-ID: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to
the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already
rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run
TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer
springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit
the original configuration?

Bob Kramer
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Thu Nov 18 14:46:08 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 14:46:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007301d7dcc5$b24e6870$16eb3950$@comcast.net>

Bob,

I gave up on Triumph springs a long time ago. I adapted some adjustable spring perches for the rear and now use 

Eibach 2.5 x 8? x #550 springs in the rear. I use double adjustable QA-1 shocks front & rear.

There is a really great variety of springs if you can get away from ? Triumph ? springs.

The great thing is they are a fraction of the cost of factory springs and I can accurately corner weight the car which 

made a big difference in handling and my lap times. The car is really neutral. The fronts I have Swift brand 70MM ID x 6? @ #560.

3? frame clearance static. Yes, I have real coil overs on the front but I?ve been accused of worse.

This is TR4 but I don?t believe there is any difference in the suspension.

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:09 PM
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car

 

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit the original configuration?  




Bob Kramer

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From gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au  Tue Nov 23 03:48:10 2021
From: gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:48:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mk1 8 port head
Message-ID: <1CE815A6-DD4E-4FCF-945A-932E3B2007BB@optusnet.com.au>

Does anyone know of a 8 port head for sale to fit the early motor 
Thanks 
Geoff Byrne

Sent from my iPad

From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 21:40:04 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 22:40:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 06:13:56 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:13:56 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sjanzen at me.com  Thu Nov 25 06:54:56 2021
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:54:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
> 
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
> 
> Scott (B.)
> 
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>  
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
> 
> 
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From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 08:33:12 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:33:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?


On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 25 10:33:36 2021
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <F12534DE-800C-4B00-9E35-A19C9C1F1790@yahoo.com>

On my TR3, which has a T5 trans, I cut the front of the tunnel and made a removable section.  The T5 weighs 95#, so it?s best done as a 2 person job or using a hoist.  Joe B.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>> 
>> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
>> 
>> Scott (B.)
>> 
>> Scott Barr
>> McCarty Law LLP
>> (920) 257-2233
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
>> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>>  
>> Hi group.
>>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>>                           Thanks.  P.J.
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at yahoo.com
> 
> 
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 11:28:11 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:28:11 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com<mailto:sjanzen at me.com>> wrote:
Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

?
Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From bschirano1 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 19:09:08 2021
From: bschirano1 at gmail.com (Brian Schirano)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 21:09:08 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)
>
>
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
> *To:* Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
> *Cc:* Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
> it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or
> necessary.
>                          Thanks for the input.  P.J.
>   Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
>
> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bschirano1 at gmail.com
>
>
>

-- 
Brian Schirano
585-305-0349
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From igofaster at att.net  Fri Nov 26 08:26:45 2021
From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:26:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1721385523.5659096.1637940405336@mail.yahoo.com>

 when the whole front bonnet is so easy to remove, pull the whole unit.. I have spares from my T50 gearbox if anybody is interested.. not sure what is good but there's two of most everything.. message me if someone wants them..? Bobby Whitehead

    On Thursday, November 25, 2021, 08:09:53 PM CST, Brian Schirano via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.? But that was 20-ish years ago? :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.? Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or? necessary.??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Thanks for the input.? P.J.? Bye the way,? Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?? ? ? ??
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.? Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.? With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.? That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.? It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)
Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?Hi group.? I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.? TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?? I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thanks.? P.J._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com




_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bschirano1 at gmail.com





-- 
Brian Schirano585-305-0349_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 07:09:29 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello FOT!So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
What say you, FOT?
Cheers all!Jake & Karen Jacobsen
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From tr4abrad at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 07:25:06 2021
From: tr4abrad at gmail.com (Brad Eells)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 06:25:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ACE7E1CD-034E-408D-9F0C-CDA683351CAC@gmail.com>

I have Spitfire cams stamped ?Kastner?.

I suppose it?s all within the realm of possibility.

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2021, at 6:10 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello FOT!
> So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
> What say you, FOT?
> 
> Cheers all!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> <1031211343.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 08:43:49 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1063473759.1462725.1635777829616@connect.xfinity.com>

I would think Kas stamped it himself.  What is the engine number on the block?  Might it be a TR4 engine?  Just curious.
Neat find.
Dave H. 


>     On 11/01/2021 6:09 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT!
>     So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
>     What say you, FOT?
> 
>     Cheers all!
>     Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From terrysopher at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:22:53 2021
From: terrysopher at gmail.com (Terry Sopher)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 14:22:53 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat
Message-ID: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.   

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry

From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:29:00 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 18:29:00 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Put-In-Bay race
In-Reply-To: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
References: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45144A93789B45AF83289956BA8A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Yes, I had low expectations going to this event but to my surprise we had a really good time.  We will be back next year if they have it again.

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Terry Sopher via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 2:22 PM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fot-racing.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C6c16c9b23e2e4de8af1d08d99d64ac41%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637713877978508916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=dadDwDP60W1Wci%2ButGvaEjfLIUdhk0%2B0t5fxjRTcbMA%3D&amp;reserved=0

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From don at dcphotos.com  Tue Nov  2 12:06:47 2021
From: don at dcphotos.com (don at dcphotos.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 13:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat (and steel synchros)
Message-ID: <CCB984B8-CF26-4651-ACC3-2C46A43E9DDC@dcphotos.com>

Terry, 
I have a seat from a MK1, MK2 or I should say seat frame in VERY rough shape. 
I can send you pics of it.

Also, I am in the process of testing Rick Parent?s steel synchros with carbon fiber linings that fir the Spitfire/GT6 larger synchro gears.
I should be able to report on them in a couple weeks. So far they really look the business.

Don

DON COUCH PHOTOGRAPHY
www.dcphotos.com
(512)-680-3540

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From bownes at seiri.com  Fri Nov  5 09:58:41 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:58:41 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Street TR4 up for auction
Message-ID: <CAJ1+nOQ4O2RHb1n0nhB=kJojYbKdtJtMvFirOPb+TfJXgUNL_w@mail.gmail.com>

Found this in a local auction listing amongst ~150 Packards and 40's/50's
Cadillacs. Looks like a decent restoration project for anyone interested.

No financial interest...

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?auctionId=727&page=info&lotId=217&startLotId=189&direction=next&categoryId=&filter=&showThumbNails=true#maincontent

Safe Travels!
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From sherryjimmy6116 at att.net  Fri Nov  5 11:59:10 2021
From: sherryjimmy6116 at att.net (sherry robyn)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:59:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR6 part and other race related pieces for sale
In-Reply-To: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1501272552.1639426.1636135150725@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Hi All,

I shut down? a TR6 race car a bit ago and have these pieces for sale.? If interested, I will? send photos.
TR6 oil cooler with spin on filter adapter and hoses - $175
Light weight alternator - $40
Longacre Tire/Brake Pyrometer with probe - $75
Jegs type canister gas filter with fittings - $20

All prices are plus shipping.? Thanks for looking.
Jim  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 18:05:43 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
Message-ID: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From 4msonset at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 18:32:17 2021
From: 4msonset at gmail.com (J Wagner)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 1964 TRIUMPH TR4, NO RUST, AMAZING BODY,
 FOR RESTORATION - cars &...
Message-ID: <0D23D8A8-06A5-4C57-8FA7-A0497F05C65E@gmail.com>

I have no connection, but thought it might interest someone.


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/la-habra-1964-triumph-tr4-no-rust/7404112421.html

From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 20:04:06 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <211814413.1359345.1636250646254@connect.xfinity.com>

Don's email address is, mccoydp at sbcglobal.net mailto:mccoydp at sbcglobal.net . 
Dave H. 

>     On 11/06/2021 5:05 PM DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From 65356sc at msn.com  Sun Nov  7 12:52:33 2021
From: 65356sc at msn.com (LEE FOLLANSBEE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 19:52:33 +0000
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Wow those look like bargains.

Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 15:50:13 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:50:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
Message-ID: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

From bownes at seiri.com  Sun Nov  7 16:01:53 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:01:53 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A059E9DC-015C-426F-A3B2-1016DBE7E821@seiri.com>

I?m very glad they are on the other side of the country!!!

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 14:52, LEE FOLLANSBEE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Wow those look like bargains.
> 
> Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
> To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
>  
> Hello Friends, 
> I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
> I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
> Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
> The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
> Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
> I have cold start video of both cars.
> For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
> Best,
> Dave Hogye
> 831-234-4928
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com
> 
> 
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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 16:07:24 2021
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:07:24 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>

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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:35:57 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
 <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <599707673.1378300.1636328157144@connect.xfinity.com>

I agree.  If I had the time and energy, I'd snatch these cars up.  Too many cars and too little time.  I've known of these cars for a few months, but didn't want to share them widely until I had a chance to see them myself.  I think they good cars and the engines sound great with the handling setup fully sorted.  They started instantly and ran crisp and clean, revved easy and set to idle perfectly.  They need tires and new seat belts.  Other than that, I'd say they are ready to go and would sure fit in a few vintage organizations, VARA being one of them, without much effort.   Although they are with lots of race patina, they are rust free and the frames are apparently in great condition. 
The Spit has GT6 brakes and front suspension and GT6 gearbox, special rear axles and 4 link with the standard leaf spring arrangement.  The TR6 has Jag brakes on the front, close ratio TR6 box.  The TR6 has both crank fire and distributor in place and can be switched to distributor for cold starting.  Both have welded diffs.  
The TR6 has a set of earlier rounded flared fenders.  Two new spare crank shafts and a bunch of other good spares.  Spit has spare body panels, blocks, heads, pistons...all kinds of stuff.  All spares are well organized, neatly boxed and clearly marked. 
Don has placed an add for the cars in next month's SCCA The Wheel magazine.   
Dave H.


>     On 11/07/2021 11:52 AM LEE FOLLANSBEE <65356sc at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Wow those look like bargains.
> 
>     Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
>     To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:50:04 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave Hogye)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:50:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 and Spitfire photos
Message-ID: <7319F901-3D99-4E55-A371-ECBE5EDFA361@comcast.net>



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Sent from my iPhone

From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 16:51:18 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <5B8DC37F-2764-41F9-AECA-7A696BDF0A5C@icloud.com>

Also, the O-rings for the operating lever seem to be slightly too small to do a good job sealing the side cover. Has anyone found a good source of these O-rings that fit properly?  Same question for the selector rod o-rings on the top cover. Those always seem too small and sit too far in their respective bores to seal against the cover. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 5:07 PM, Dean <tr3a58dean at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.
> Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.
>  
> Dean T.
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Greg Blake via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: Fot
> Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
>  
> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>  
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>  
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>  
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum.
>  
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>  
> Greg
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>  
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>  
>  
>  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:11:34 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:11:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cold start video
Message-ID: <1188296385.1379437.1636330294753@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy Spitfire race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEDCCCg0aBg
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:27:32 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 race car cold start video
Message-ID: <1788459547.1379959.1636331252207@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy TR6 race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mecCy9yTLVg
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From tr4 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov  7 18:07:22 2021
From: tr4 at wi.rr.com (Steve Yott)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 19:07:22 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <mailman.619.1638251802.12548.fot@autox.team.net>

I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.Steve Yott
-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21  5:08 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.?Dean T.??Sent from Mail for Windows?From: Greg Blake via FotSent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PMTo: FotSubject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks?I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. ?To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. ?When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again??I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. ?Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. ?Greg?Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr3a58dean at gmail.com???
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From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Sun Nov  7 20:55:36 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:55:36 +1000
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0S_Eo1gnMX47d6DT=OVpZ+QkTgkj4LiNN=rmTFu_p4LA@mail.gmail.com>

the adapter plate was indeed wired ex factory for older models, eg TR2, TR3.

By the time TR6 came along, there was a version of "loctite"

Ive rebuilt hundeds and never had this happen

Suggest you check the tapped holes in the back of the case

terry



On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:51 AM Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was
> removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely
> attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed
> backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover.
> Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of
> these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every
> seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work
> to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.
> Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded
> into aluminum.
>
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>
> Greg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au
>
>
>
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From vintagenick42 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 21:00:30 2021
From: vintagenick42 at yahoo.com (Nick Black)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 04:00:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
 <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <535329805.544532.1636344030948@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Greg etal,Remove the bolts holding the plate to the trans and deposit them in the nearest trashcan!The torque figure on those bolts is something like 20 or 25 pounds and at 26 pounds they stretch. You will find the bolts neatly wired and loose as the forces of the od engaging stretches them, and then the leaking starts.I use internal socket head bolts (to get the small head) and drill them for safety wire. The bolts are much higher strength and do not stretch...no more leaks.
clean floors in norcalnick    On Sunday, November 7, 2021, 05:12:33 PM PST, Steve Yott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.
The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.


Steve Yott

-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.

Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.

?

Dean T.

?

?

Sent from Mail for Windows

?

From: Greg Blake via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
To: Fot
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

?

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

?

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

?

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

?

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

?

Greg

?

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________

fot at autox.team.net

?

http://www.fot-racing.com

?

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?
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Mon Nov  8 07:57:33 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 14:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>

 I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 09:32:23 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:32:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw:  Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1922608350.1475065.1636389143104@mail.yahoo.com>

 I have rebuilt dozens of these, both for my race car and a number of street cars.? For the race car, I found a machinist (ex TR-3 racer) who could drill and tap 2 additional 1/4" holes in the adapter plate & gearbox housing, to the inside of the 2 bottom bolts that are about 6" apart.? These bolts are as close to the gearbox housing as he could get, and still fit them in.? I think we used a short (3/4" long?) 1/4" grade 8 bolt with Locktite.? This seemed to reduce the leakage considerably.
If Bryan Brazelton has one of my old overdrive gearboxes around, perhaps he could check the exact location of the 2 additional bolts and let the FOT know.? I know I sold at least one close ratio overdrive gearbox with the car and a straight close ration 4 speed.? Don't know exactly what is with the car today.
Cheers.
Jack Wheeler

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021, 10:01:27 AM ESTSubject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
  I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov  8 15:57:10 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 23:57:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1127186637.37294184.1636412230667.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>

Very good idea not to use gaskets that can compress! (like "gasket makers"). 
Marcel 


Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 8 november 2021 15:57:33 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use. 
I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite. 
Done deal... 

Glen Efinger 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm 
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again? 

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the. Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg 

Sent from my iPhone 
_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 18:26:58 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Dellorto dhle45
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB451479CCCBF96BC62DA197B7BA929@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Is anybody running a Dellorto dhle 45 on their Spitfire?  I purchased one locally because it was there and want to give it a try after I rebuild it over the winter. I'm hoping somebody is running one (or possible a Webber 45 dcoe) that might be able to give me some tips on their setup to shorten my learning curve.

Thanks,
Marty
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From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:04:59 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:04:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>

Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:19:32 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:19:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.? I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.? This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.? It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.
After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.? They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.? In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.
The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.? I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.? Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.
Good luck.
Jack Wheeler? 

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 07:25:49 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 09:25:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
and they're on the way.
NFI, just passing this on

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
> keep it all in one piece.
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
> pistons floating around on the net.
>
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From ac at camoletti.ch  Tue Nov  9 09:44:38 2021
From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:44:38 +0100
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons
 and liners
Message-ID: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>

Gents, 

I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference).

 

De : Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy? : mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
? : Erik Jacobsen
Cc : FOT Triumph
Objet : Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.

NFI, just passing this on

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

 

mike h

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage> 
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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 10:13:26 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 12:13:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>

I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?

The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
Phil G

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
> 
> mike h
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
> 
> 
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From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Tue Nov  9 10:24:01 2021
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04 at tr4racer.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).


From paulricco at att.net  Tue Nov  9 10:57:09 2021
From: paulricco at att.net (Paul Ricco)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <E00A5FCC-257F-48B6-A035-232C9DD7F1AE@att.net>

As a very good industrial trainer once told me while I was being certified to work with products that his company manufactures, 

?There has been millions of dollars in research spent to develop the products that we engineer and sell.  They all work perfectly if you follow the directions provided with them.  However, most people do not follow the directions and they get less than ideal results?

So in short I have learned that there are a lot of good approaches, if they are executed properly and the owner is happy with the path chosen.

Paul Ricco

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
>> Gents,
>> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
>> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
>> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
>> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
>> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
>> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
>> which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net
> 
> 



From dmar823 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:20:54 2021
From: dmar823 at gmail.com (Don Marshall)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> >
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 14:53:20 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] FW:  TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <001a01d7d5b4$3652bae0$a2f830a0$@comcast.net>

 

Jack,

I use the Wiseco pop ups for the same reason. I have a big investment in my head and so I didn?t want to mill it so far as to sacrifice reliability.

My last one cracked at a water jacket.

I use BFE supplied liners  ( LA Sleeve ).

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Jack Wheeler via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Erik Jacobsen <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com <mailto:kekjacobsen at yahoo.com> >
Cc: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.  I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.  This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.  It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.

 

After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.  They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.  In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.

 

The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.  I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.  Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.

 

Good luck.

 

Jack Wheeler  

 

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive  <http://autox.team.net/archive%20> http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 15:03:59 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
 <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage> 
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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 15:06:56 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.
> jg
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
> Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
> To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
> Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners
>  
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> > 
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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> 
> 
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 16:59:02 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
 <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01f701d7d5c5$c5aecd80$510c6880$@comcast.net>

Yeah I don?t think that?s gonna buff out.

 

From: Philip Gott <vfracing at aol.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:07 PM
To: Jim Gray <toodamnfunky at comcast.net>
Cc: Don Marshall <dmar823 at gmail.com>; yellow04 at tr4racer.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 



Sent from my iPhone





On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

?

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com <mailto:yellow04 at tr4racer.com> 
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

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_______________________________________________
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Tue Nov  9 19:55:57 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 21:55:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <74343089-471D-4286-B063-85F3D6B3DBFE@icloud.com>

I?ve been running a TR3 with the same Wiseco flattop 87mm pistons since 2009. I?ve rebuilt the motor twice since the initial build in 2009. Both times it was a broken crank, but the pistons survived. 

The latest version, I built in 2010, has 13:1 compression. 

This setup has proven to be extremely reliable. Last time I had the head off was in 2012. The car is pretty competitive as well.  Lately I seem to be out driving the brakes and transmission, but that?s another topic.  

I think someone else made the point already, but pick a path and be methodical in preparation and execution and you will be happy. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:05 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
> 
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gblake58tr3 at icloud.com
> 
> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Wed Nov 10 07:27:04 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <449850039.284964.1636554424886@mail.yahoo.com>

 The lump on the piston sure will disrupt flame travel & swirl, and that can lead to detonation.You'll be able to see it on the chamber/piston top; it'll be perfectly clean where there hasn't been any burn.A .050ish lump works well if the edges are all chamfered so that the mixture isn't trapped anywhere, but the pistons with a real "dome" that don't require much head milling are worthless in a race engine.
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Camoletti via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: 'Mike Harmuth' <ofracer at gmail.com>; 'Erik Jacobsen' <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com>
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2021 11:44 am
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

<!--#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 p.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 li.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv4466933430 a:link, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 a:visited, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Garamond", "serif";color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv4466933430 .yiv4466933430MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430WordSection1 {}-->Gents, I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference). ?De?: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy??: mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
??: Erik Jacobsen
Cc?: FOT Triumph
Objet?: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners ?I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original?owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.NFI, just passing this on ?https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5 ?mike h ?On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.?? ?Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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_______________________________________________
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 09:08:59 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:08:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
References: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B7207FA9-30B1-4227-9091-73F928D363AD@yahoo.com>

Years ago I had a local speed shop order me a couple of sets of hardened steel lightweight wrist pins for my 87 mm pistons.  Worked great.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 12:14 PM, Philip Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?
> 
> The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
> Phil G
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
>> NFI, just passing this on
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>> 
>> mike h
>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> Good morning FoT!
>>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From hankgiffin at cox.net  Thu Nov 11 00:35:33 2021
From: hankgiffin at cox.net (Henry Giffin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 02:35:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 ENGINE PARTS FOR SALE
Message-ID: <000c01d7d6ce$b71654a0$2542fde0$@cox.net>

FoT - I am again selling these TR3/4 engine parts I purchased for a project
no longer in the works.  The attachment lists the parts as I bought them,
plus comments. A very experienced machinist went through them and
unfortunately there were problems with some of them the seller was not aware
of.  The machinist's appraisal and comments are below.

   I do not see a time when I will need these parts.  The seller does not
need them back.  I paid $5K and the seller said he had over $7700 in them.
But the head is probably not usable for racing, the cam is not usable, the
rods need reconditioning, and the Moldex crank needs a regrind and hardening
if you want to use a .030 crank.  There is still a lot of good stuff here.
I will accept a reasonable offer.  

   I also have 3 parts at the bottom of this email not included in the
engine parts (Flywheel, Clutch, Detroit Locker)

   I can bring everything to the Turkey Bowl if desired.  Thanks, Hank

 

MACHINIST'S COMMENTS :

"New parts appear OK to include-

Tappets 8X

Roller rocker assy

EC510 lower gasket set

Steel head gasket

Bronze v/guides 8X 

Clevite .010 pair bearings rod 8X.

Set King main bearings .020.

Set copper figure-8

Set CPK868 040 liners

Set Wiseco 87mm custom pistons w/Grant ring set

Rolon timing chain

 

Used OK-

ARP head stud set 

Adj cam gear (some wear)

Rear seal housing

 

 

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.  (Hank - this
head is probably usable on a street car but not for racing)

 

Crank, it'll take $500-600 to get this crank liquid mag crack check, ground
to spec, and balanced.

Then it's a .030 regrind, and I would be concerned about how deep the
hardness is.

This may warrant a call to Moldex. ( Hank- Moldex says to regrind and
reharden would be $450)

Core value if not cracked, maybe 1k?

You have to consider that at .030, its life is about over, and a new one
would be a much better investment.  (Hank - yes, but this is a lot less
expensive.  So a trade off)

Crankshaft is undated used & reground Moldex, dimensions as follows-

Mains (std spec 2.4790-2.4795)

1- 2.4587

2- 2.4584

3- 2.4591

This indicates a regrind to .020 and a variation of .0007 would preclude
setting oil clearances to spec. The mains will require regrinding to .030
spec.

 

Rod journals (std spec 2.0866-2.0866)

1- 2.0659

2- 2.0756

3- 2.0752

4- 2.0756

The #1 journal has been reground to .020. the others .010.  (Hank - not
understandable why this was done)

#1 journal also has several areas with original surface unground, indicating
prior damage to journal which necessitated a .020 regrind.

There is a .0004 variation between the other 3 journals and they are ground
outside the limit for regrind, so it's unlikely that they would fall within
the specs for required oil clearance anyway.

The rod journals will require grinding to .030 to exact spec.

 

The rear seal journal is 2.4994 and in good condition.

 

Connecting rods-

Small-end bushes appear to be new.

Big-end housing bore surface as removed from engine, not cleaned.

Heavy blackening/deposits on housing bores indicates poor bearing back
surface contact with housing bore prior to what was likely catastrophic
bearing failure.

Also some isolated burnished areas where bearing shells were starting to
'shuffle" after bearings started to deform & parting lines closed up.

Mic #1 rod housing bore, in spec, approx .0005 "cap shift".

Will require reconditioning to some degree as required.

(note these rods best done by manufacturer vs local machine shop.

 

Cylinder head-

Small port big-valve 4A head w/port work.

Thickness is 3.170 and nearly all inlet shrouding has been removed

Center water port crack present and multiple drillings/pins crack
repair/stop drilled.

Crack-check surface center, see photos (I can provide if interested - Hank).

All valves/seats are too deep.

Did not check further, will require teardown, full crack-check & inspection
to determine suitability for use but will require valve seats to restore
valve height, at a minimum.

The cracks may not preclude using it but better used original cores & new
are available as alternatives.

Valves, retainers, springs all appear as new.

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.

 

 

Block- Did NOT check housing bore, deck for square etc.

It's apparent that the liner seats have been machined, new cam bearings
fitted & ?

Will require detailed cleaning and inspection to determine condition.  (Hank
- the block appears to be very usable)

 

Oil pump-

Used/recon?

Housing is brass-bushed.

Disassemble, oil ports have been opened up & rotors appear to be OK but it
has excessive shaft clearance/wobble, and way too much end clearance & end
plate wear.

The pump would be marginally serviceable but have a short service life.

 

Used parts including hardware, sealing block, crank gear, dist shaft & gear,
oil sump, crank snout, stock pulley etc included but not inspected.

Some are routine replacement items, some usable as cores, some junk, not a
lot of real value in these parts in any case."

 

OTHER PARTS NOT INCLUDED WITH ENGINE PARTS:

Fidanza flywheel #172441 T4 new in box (cost $369) - $200

Tilton Clutch 7 ? #908Q/7261 new in box - $150

Detroit Locker used excellent (Summit sells new for $469) - $100

 

Thanks, Hank

 

Hank Giffin

757-375-1491

hankgiffin at cox.net

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From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Nov 11 14:39:27 2021
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [TR] TR4 race car
In-Reply-To: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
References: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
Message-ID: <6c108bf5-74aa-56de-32b8-ea92ee5678c0@bradakis.com>

That paint scheme looks vaguely familiar.? Anyone know this car?



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[TR] TR4 race car
Date: 	Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:06:04 -0500
From: 	auprichard at uprichard.net
To: 	'Triumph Mailing List' <triumphs at autox.team.net>



Listers:? I have come across a TR4 race car which is basically a body on 
a frame:? no engine, transmission or interior.? Also no title or vin plate.

I have had the car in the air and the frame appears really solid.? 
Likewise the body is remarkably rust-free.? The fenders are metal, but 
they have been flared to accommodate wider wheels.

I have many more pics if anyone is interested in knowing more.

The car is located in Jackson, Michigan. I?d like to get $1200 for it, 
but I am open to offers.

Andrew Uprichard
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** triumphs at autox.team.net **

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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 21:51:26 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
Message-ID: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello FOT,

If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.

Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa

The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.

Curt Johnston
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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 23:28:05 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 22:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
In-Reply-To: <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
References: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>
 <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1280077004.350212.1636698485916@connect.xfinity.com>

Chris,

You're absolutely correct on the trans gearing.  Down the straight I was at 7000+ RPM in 5th, and only doing about 115.  It is a BL 5 speed from the Huffaker TR8 and this track showed how wrong it is.  

The original trans for the car is a Spitfire 4 speed, but it was built without a reverse (the reverse gear pin would sheer off all the time).  Over the winter, Joe Carr (the original Huffaker mechanic for the car) has committed to engineer the trans to get a working reverse.  The 4 speed gearing should work better with the rear end.  You may have noticed, that I didn't drop into second gear when needed as well.  Shifting down to second was nearly impossible about half the time.  We just can't get parts to make things right.  Of course a dog box would solve the problems, but I'm trying to keep the car original.  Cheers.

Curt Johnston

>     On 11/11/2021 9:57 PM tr4racing at googlemail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Hi Curt,
> 
> 
>     nice ride. Good line.
> 
>     Odd gearing?.the jump 3rd to 4th is too short, and also from 4th to 5th you?re running out of revs all the time and the engine seem not linking to rev too high.
> 
> 
>     The TR6 at the beginning in front of you has an interesting damping?.almost no damping.
> 
>     Walzing Mathilda back end J
> 
> 
>     Cheers
> 
>     Chris
> 
> 
> 
>     Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Curt Johnston via Fot
>     Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2021 05:51
>     An: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Betreff: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT,
> 
>      
> 
>     If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.
> 
>      
> 
>     Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa
> 
>      
> 
>     The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.
> 
>      
> 
>     Curt Johnston
> 
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 10:48:35 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 12:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVa5aEXz-zpF8hdB=F=LJxkFhHnO33d2JeoX8x6hV4gWNA@mail.gmail.com>

Just an update on the pistons I ordered from Paeco. I received them
yesterday and they were not Venolia, as advertised, but Ross. They were the
specs advertised but not the brand, I asked for a refund and received a
prepaid return label this morning.

Buyer beware

thanks
mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:25 AM Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
> new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
> gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
> they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
> good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
> and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>
> mike h
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
>> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
>> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
>> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
>> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
>> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
>> keep it all in one piece.
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
>> pistons floating around on the net.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov 14 17:36:24 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:36:24 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
Message-ID: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>

I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 

Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 

Sent from my iPhone

From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 18:23:58 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> 
> 


From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Mon Nov 15 04:10:05 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:10:05 +1000
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun
gear , annulus and 3-gear set

Terry


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal
> to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear
> appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way
> to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems
> good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue
> color.
> >
> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different
> gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just
> skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying
> around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a
> shot.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > fot at autox.team.net
> >
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov 15 05:22:08 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 13:22:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <612967081.55726738.1636978928532.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>



I don't think the blue color does mean a thing. Some Fot members, like Chuck Gee, will know for sure. 
The standard overdrive ratio's of the Triumph cars (TR, saloons and Stag) are not very different. The ratio is often marked in the casing : something like 25 or 22, but none of the standard ratio's will improve the 3 O/D use that much : the power loss through the overdrive will not be compensated by the better overall gearing, but it can come in handy sometimes to engage 3rd O/D for just a couple of seconds and then again go to 3rd 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "Bob Kramer" <rkramer56 at gmail.com> 
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 15 november 2021 12:10:05 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild 

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set 
Terry 


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 


JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread. 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 
> 
> I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> _______________________________________________ 
> [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 
> 
> [ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 
> 
> Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
> Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com ] 
> 
> 
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_______________________________________________ 
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From rjl6n at cstone.net  Mon Nov 15 06:47:17 2021
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (R. John Lye)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:47:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>

JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
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?


From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 08:37:42 2021
From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:37:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>

 The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 09:31:28 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:31:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
 <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1017086544.844007.1636993888194@mail.yahoo.com>

 When I raced at a long track with some tight turns, like Road Atlanta or Road America, I used a 4.3 rear end gear with the Dolomite close ratio gears and an A-Type overdrive.? This combination gave me a good second gear for the tight turns (e.g. turn 7 at Road Atlanta), and the overdrive gave me a good top end for the long straights at both tracks.
Turns 5 and 6 at Road America is a good example of where you might use 2nd gear direct for turn 5, an upshift into 2nd overdrive on the hill up to turn 6, then back down to 2nd direct for turn 6.
I hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jack

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 10:38:14 AM EST, Robert Lang via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From cartravel at pobox.com  Mon Nov 15 09:42:43 2021
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:42:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fa9362b-aad3-1ead-6910-9e3650681207@pobox.com>

Greg, you did not mention what ratios you have. During my short racing 
career I tried numerous gear combinations. 20% jumps seem to be about 
right for the upper gears in our cars, which is what a standard A-type 
overdrive gives (22% or 0.82). The standard gearbox ratios give about a 
30% jump between 3rd and 4th, while the close ratio gears are closer to 
20%, so standard gears give a 3rd overdrive which is 10% lower than 4th, 
while with a close ratio box they are essentially the same. The 
advantage of the overdrive is to give a useable gear between 2nd and 
3rd. I don't see how you can improve on the combination of an OD and 
close ratio box with a 4.55 rear. I found it useful to have two ways to 
get the same gear because sometimes it is easier/quicker to shift the OD 
rather than the transmission. Everyone say overdrives are temperamental 
and add weight. I never found mine to be a problem and a small 
improvement in gearing can easily make up for the extra weight.

The alternative OD ratios I've seen are larger than 20%. You'd have to 
go to a very large OD ratio to get a useable 3rd-OD which is between 3rd 
and 4th. Some of the alternate OD ratios are probably better for highway 
cruising.

On 11/15/2021 5:10 AM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot wrote:
> there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the 
> sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set
>
> Terry
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot 
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with
>     the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>     > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot
>     <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>     >
>     > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car.
>     Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color
>     now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by
>     over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective,
>     just concerned about the slight blue color.
>     >
>     > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of
>     different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and
>     4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I
>     have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a
>     combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>     >
>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > fot at autox.team.net
>     >
>     > http://www.fot-racing.com
>     >
>     > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive
>     http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     > Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
>
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive
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>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
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From alfetta95 at optonline.net  Mon Nov 15 12:50:35 2021
From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (Alfetta95)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:50:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
Message-ID: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?   Should I just toss it and buy new?   

Todd


From vfracing at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 13:12:55 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 20:12:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
References: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>

when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? 

Todd
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From steve at artwithcars.com  Mon Nov 15 13:16:07 2021
From: steve at artwithcars.com (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 12:16:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>

Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve


> On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> when in doubt, throw it out!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
> Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
> 
> Friends
> 
> I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?  Should I just toss it and buy new?  
> 
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve at artwithcars.com
> 
> 
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From rek46 at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 14:14:43 2021
From: rek46 at aol.com (rek46)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:14:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
Message-ID: <1415254763.2007961.1637010883911@mail.yahoo.com>

USE ONLY DISTILLED WATER....ALL? DRUG STORES HAVE IT.
?
In a message dated 11/15/2021 3:36:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, fot at autox.team.net writes:?
Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve?

On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends?I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? ?Todd_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com??_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve at artwithcars.com



_______________________________________________
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http://www.fot-racing.com

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Mon Nov 15 14:38:29 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:38:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again. 

Great stuff. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This is one of those emails to save.  Great info, especially the part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
> 
> I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.  The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
> 
> I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft is set up for RHD. 
> 
> 
> Bob Kramer
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:27 PM Henry Frye wrote:
>> OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best! The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is. 
>> 
>> To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
>> 
>> Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
>> 
>> As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top. We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear. What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate! 
>> 
>> The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings! 
>> 
>> The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
>> 
>> I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
>> 
>> Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
>> 
>> Henry Frye
>> 
>> From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
>> Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>  
>> Henry,
>> 
>> Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?  I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair. 
>> 
>> That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces. 
>> 
>> Here is a screen shot from the Moss description. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:42 AM, Henry Frye wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
>>> 
>>> I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing. 
>>> 
>>> Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
>>> 
>>> I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
>>> 
>>> That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD. 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> Sent from phone
>>> From: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
>>> Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>>  
>>> Henry 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!   Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.  The endurance TR6 has the close ratio set.  It is easiest to start with a 73 or later TR6 box. 
>>>  
>>> Bob Kramer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:27 AM Henry Frye wrote:
>>> Hey Bob,
>>> 
>>> I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!
>>> 
>>> Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.
>>> 
>>> https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
>>> To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>> 
>>> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
>>> > 
>>> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
>>> > 
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > fot at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> > 
>>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>>> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Tue Nov 16 07:43:43 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:43:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1703120853.2265488.1637073824079@mail.yahoo.com>

 Very good write-up Henry!How I long for the days of the blue & white box marked TKC454...

Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again.?
Great stuff.?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:



?This is one of those emails?to save.? Great info, especially the?part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.? The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft?is set up for RHD.?


Bob Kramer

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:27 PM Henry Frye wrote:

OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best!?The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is.?
To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top.?We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear.?What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate!?
The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings!?
The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
Henry Frye
From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
To: Henry Frye
Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry,
Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?? I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair.?
That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces.?
Here is a screen shot from the Moss description.?


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:42 AM, Henry Frye wrote:



?I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing.?
Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD.?
Henry FryeSent from phoneFrom: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
To: Henry Frye
Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry?
Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!? ?Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.? The endurance TR6 has the close?ratio set.? It is easiest to start with a 73 or later?TR6 box.??
Bob Kramer

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:27 AM Henry Frye wrote:

Hey Bob,

I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!

Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088

Henry Frye

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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_______________________________________________
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 08:17:14 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the
spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the
smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem
revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has
successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast
on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars,
a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke
and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides")
I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than
once)?

thanks
mike h
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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 09:42:23 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:42:23 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45146C71E8B0B033CA4CB65EBA9A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker is the 1500 magic man. ?

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 10:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:19:34 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:19:34 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:24:21 2021
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:24:21 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?
Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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From vfracing at aol.com  Wed Nov 17 15:28:47 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:28:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
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 <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <1933981738.1164154.1637188127182@mail.yahoo.com>

FADING AWAY NOT TOO QUICKLY I HOPE!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Barr, Scott <sbarr at mccarty-law.com>
Cc: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2021 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?
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Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.? It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.? Cross-drilled, etc.? I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).? I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.? Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.?
 
 ?
 
And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
 
 ?
 
Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.? Some day.? After I retire. ?Probably.
 
 ?
 
Scott (B.)
 
 ?
 
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf OfMike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
 
 ?
 
Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
 
 ?
 
I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
 
 ?
 
Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
 
 ?
 
thanks
 
mike h
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To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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From lunkercars at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 16:30:55 2021
From: lunkercars at yahoo.com (Greg Hilyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:30:55 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
References: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <78051C64-183F-49C8-A0DC-081945257CF4@yahoo.com>

I thought the saying was 
?Old lawyers never retire - they just loose their appeal?.
I?ll show myself out now??
Greg ?Lunker? Hilyer
Albuquerque NM


> On Nov 17, 2021, at 3:24 PM, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ? Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances. 
>>  
>> And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
>>  
>> Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.
>>  
>> Scott (B.)
>>  
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
>> To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
>>  
>> Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
>>  
>> I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
>>  
>> Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
>>  
>> thanks
>> mike h
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>> Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --===============2670542546735504675==--
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/lunkercars at yahoo.com
> 
> 
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From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:09:11 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 15:09:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
Message-ID: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to
the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already
rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run
TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer
springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit
the original configuration?

Bob Kramer
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Thu Nov 18 14:46:08 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 14:46:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007301d7dcc5$b24e6870$16eb3950$@comcast.net>

Bob,

I gave up on Triumph springs a long time ago. I adapted some adjustable spring perches for the rear and now use 

Eibach 2.5 x 8? x #550 springs in the rear. I use double adjustable QA-1 shocks front & rear.

There is a really great variety of springs if you can get away from ? Triumph ? springs.

The great thing is they are a fraction of the cost of factory springs and I can accurately corner weight the car which 

made a big difference in handling and my lap times. The car is really neutral. The fronts I have Swift brand 70MM ID x 6? @ #560.

3? frame clearance static. Yes, I have real coil overs on the front but I?ve been accused of worse.

This is TR4 but I don?t believe there is any difference in the suspension.

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:09 PM
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car

 

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit the original configuration?  




Bob Kramer

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From gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au  Tue Nov 23 03:48:10 2021
From: gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:48:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mk1 8 port head
Message-ID: <1CE815A6-DD4E-4FCF-945A-932E3B2007BB@optusnet.com.au>

Does anyone know of a 8 port head for sale to fit the early motor 
Thanks 
Geoff Byrne

Sent from my iPad


From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 21:40:04 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 22:40:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 06:13:56 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:13:56 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sjanzen at me.com  Thu Nov 25 06:54:56 2021
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:54:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
> 
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
> 
> Scott (B.)
> 
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>  
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
> 
> 
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From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 08:33:12 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:33:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?


On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>
>
>
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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 25 10:33:36 2021
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <F12534DE-800C-4B00-9E35-A19C9C1F1790@yahoo.com>

On my TR3, which has a T5 trans, I cut the front of the tunnel and made a removable section.  The T5 weighs 95#, so it?s best done as a 2 person job or using a hoist.  Joe B.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>> 
>> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
>> 
>> Scott (B.)
>> 
>> Scott Barr
>> McCarty Law LLP
>> (920) 257-2233
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
>> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>>  
>> Hi group.
>>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>>                           Thanks.  P.J.
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 11:28:11 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:28:11 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com<mailto:sjanzen at me.com>> wrote:
Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

?
Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From bschirano1 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 19:09:08 2021
From: bschirano1 at gmail.com (Brian Schirano)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 21:09:08 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)
>
>
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
> *To:* Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
> *Cc:* Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
> it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or
> necessary.
>                          Thanks for the input.  P.J.
>   Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
>
> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bschirano1 at gmail.com
>
>
>

-- 
Brian Schirano
585-305-0349
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From igofaster at att.net  Fri Nov 26 08:26:45 2021
From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:26:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1721385523.5659096.1637940405336@mail.yahoo.com>

 when the whole front bonnet is so easy to remove, pull the whole unit.. I have spares from my T50 gearbox if anybody is interested.. not sure what is good but there's two of most everything.. message me if someone wants them..? Bobby Whitehead

    On Thursday, November 25, 2021, 08:09:53 PM CST, Brian Schirano via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.? But that was 20-ish years ago? :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.? Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or? necessary.??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Thanks for the input.? P.J.? Bye the way,? Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?? ? ? ??
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.? Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.? With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.? That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.? It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)
Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?Hi group.? I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.? TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?? I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thanks.? P.J._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com




_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bschirano1 at gmail.com





-- 
Brian Schirano585-305-0349_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  1 07:09:29 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello FOT!So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
What say you, FOT?
Cheers all!Jake & Karen Jacobsen
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From tr4abrad at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 07:25:06 2021
From: tr4abrad at gmail.com (Brad Eells)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 06:25:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ACE7E1CD-034E-408D-9F0C-CDA683351CAC@gmail.com>

I have Spitfire cams stamped ?Kastner?.

I suppose it?s all within the realm of possibility.

Brad Eells
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2021, at 6:10 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello FOT!
> So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
> What say you, FOT?
> 
> Cheers all!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> <1031211343.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4abrad at gmail.com
> 
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 08:43:49 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 front sealing block
In-Reply-To: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1363837072.1538002.1635772170213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1063473759.1462725.1635777829616@connect.xfinity.com>

I would think Kas stamped it himself.  What is the engine number on the block?  Might it be a TR4 engine?  Just curious.
Neat find.
Dave H. 


>     On 11/01/2021 6:09 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT!
>     So, while disassembling our TR3 race car engine we came upon the pictured front sealing block, in aluminum, with KAS stamped into it. It made us wonder if this was some relation to Mr. Kastner? Or, perhaps all the sealing blocks have this. It appears to be a pretty high-end period race build, so I suppose it would be possible that he'd been involved in it...
> 
>     What say you, FOT?
> 
>     Cheers all!
>     Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From terrysopher at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:22:53 2021
From: terrysopher at gmail.com (Terry Sopher)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 14:22:53 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat
Message-ID: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.   

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry

From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  1 12:29:00 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 18:29:00 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Put-In-Bay race
In-Reply-To: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
References: <F30CE153-234B-49F7-9358-19AF810B4DFD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45144A93789B45AF83289956BA8A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Yes, I had low expectations going to this event but to my surprise we had a really good time.  We will be back next year if they have it again.

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Terry Sopher via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 2:22 PM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat

FOT - The PIB Road Race Reunion in Put In Bay, OH (21-25 September 2021) was a really excellent multi-day Sportscar Show, Recreation of the Original Race through town; Race and Exhibition event.  Reconnecting with friends from Kastner Cup 2020 (Marty & Evelyn Sukey, Jason & Kalie Sukey, Sam & Carol Halkias) and meeting new friends in a really cool island local was so nice!  Everyone had fun, despite the rain & winds from the tropical storm, made it that much better?shared perseverance in adverse conditions!  The racing was pretty good and a big shout out to Sam and his TR6 for winning the PIB Cup and to Jason who placed 2nd in his GT6 in Group 2!  Two TR6s, five Spitfires and a GT6 made for a good showing of Triumphs!  I lost 3rd gear synchro on freshly rebuilt Spit Gearbox the last lap of the first Race on Thursday?

SWSTS (She Who Supports This Stuff), got her first ride in the ?64 Spitfire Race Car in the recreation of the original PIB race course and loved it!  The temporary seat rigged for the event has been removed and I am continuing the search for a Spitfire MK1 or MK2 seat for Cathy.

If you have a spare early seat you can part with plz let me know!

Best, Terry
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

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From don at dcphotos.com  Tue Nov  2 12:06:47 2021
From: don at dcphotos.com (don at dcphotos.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 13:06:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire MK1 or MK2 Seat (and steel synchros)
Message-ID: <CCB984B8-CF26-4651-ACC3-2C46A43E9DDC@dcphotos.com>

Terry, 
I have a seat from a MK1, MK2 or I should say seat frame in VERY rough shape. 
I can send you pics of it.

Also, I am in the process of testing Rick Parent?s steel synchros with carbon fiber linings that fir the Spitfire/GT6 larger synchro gears.
I should be able to report on them in a couple weeks. So far they really look the business.

Don

DON COUCH PHOTOGRAPHY
www.dcphotos.com
(512)-680-3540

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From bownes at seiri.com  Fri Nov  5 09:58:41 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:58:41 -0400
Subject: [Fot] Street TR4 up for auction
Message-ID: <CAJ1+nOQ4O2RHb1n0nhB=kJojYbKdtJtMvFirOPb+TfJXgUNL_w@mail.gmail.com>

Found this in a local auction listing amongst ~150 Packards and 40's/50's
Cadillacs. Looks like a decent restoration project for anyone interested.

No financial interest...

https://www.collarcityauctionsonline.com/servlet/List.do?auctionId=727&page=info&lotId=217&startLotId=189&direction=next&categoryId=&filter=&showThumbNails=true#maincontent

Safe Travels!
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From sherryjimmy6116 at att.net  Fri Nov  5 11:59:10 2021
From: sherryjimmy6116 at att.net (sherry robyn)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:59:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw: TR6 part and other race related pieces for sale
In-Reply-To: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1773362753.5400.1634767565246.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1773362753.5400.1634767565246@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1501272552.1639426.1636135150725@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Hi All,

I shut down? a TR6 race car a bit ago and have these pieces for sale.? If interested, I will? send photos.
TR6 oil cooler with spin on filter adapter and hoses - $175
Light weight alternator - $40
Longacre Tire/Brake Pyrometer with probe - $75
Jegs type canister gas filter with fittings - $20

All prices are plus shipping.? Thanks for looking.
Jim  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 18:05:43 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
Message-ID: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From 4msonset at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 18:32:17 2021
From: 4msonset at gmail.com (J Wagner)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 17:32:17 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 1964 TRIUMPH TR4, NO RUST, AMAZING BODY,
 FOR RESTORATION - cars &...
Message-ID: <0D23D8A8-06A5-4C57-8FA7-A0497F05C65E@gmail.com>

I have no connection, but thought it might interest someone.


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/la-habra-1964-triumph-tr4-no-rust/7404112421.html

From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sat Nov  6 20:04:06 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <211814413.1359345.1636250646254@connect.xfinity.com>

Don's email address is, mccoydp at sbcglobal.net mailto:mccoydp at sbcglobal.net . 
Dave H. 

>     On 11/06/2021 5:05 PM DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
> 
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dlhogye at comcast.net
> 
> 
> 
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From 65356sc at msn.com  Sun Nov  7 12:52:33 2021
From: 65356sc at msn.com (LEE FOLLANSBEE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 19:52:33 +0000
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Wow those look like bargains.

Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale

Hello Friends,
I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.
I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.
Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.
The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.
Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.
I have cold start video of both cars.
For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
Best,
Dave Hogye
831-234-4928
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 15:50:13 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:50:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
Message-ID: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

From bownes at seiri.com  Sun Nov  7 16:01:53 2021
From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:01:53 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A059E9DC-015C-426F-A3B2-1016DBE7E821@seiri.com>

I?m very glad they are on the other side of the country!!!

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 14:52, LEE FOLLANSBEE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Wow those look like bargains.
> 
> Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
> To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
>  
> Hello Friends, 
> I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
> I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
> Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
> The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
> Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
> I have cold start video of both cars.
> For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
> Best,
> Dave Hogye
> 831-234-4928
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com
> 
> 
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From tr3a58dean at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 16:07:24 2021
From: tr3a58dean at gmail.com (Dean)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 18:07:24 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>

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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:35:57 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <407268440.1357052.1636243543141@connect.xfinity.com>
 <SJ0PR03MB6373767AA528148CEEA74383E6909@SJ0PR03MB6373.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <599707673.1378300.1636328157144@connect.xfinity.com>

I agree.  If I had the time and energy, I'd snatch these cars up.  Too many cars and too little time.  I've known of these cars for a few months, but didn't want to share them widely until I had a chance to see them myself.  I think they good cars and the engines sound great with the handling setup fully sorted.  They started instantly and ran crisp and clean, revved easy and set to idle perfectly.  They need tires and new seat belts.  Other than that, I'd say they are ready to go and would sure fit in a few vintage organizations, VARA being one of them, without much effort.   Although they are with lots of race patina, they are rust free and the frames are apparently in great condition. 
The Spit has GT6 brakes and front suspension and GT6 gearbox, special rear axles and 4 link with the standard leaf spring arrangement.  The TR6 has Jag brakes on the front, close ratio TR6 box.  The TR6 has both crank fire and distributor in place and can be switched to distributor for cold starting.  Both have welded diffs.  
The TR6 has a set of earlier rounded flared fenders.  Two new spare crank shafts and a bunch of other good spares.  Spit has spare body panels, blocks, heads, pistons...all kinds of stuff.  All spares are well organized, neatly boxed and clearly marked. 
Don has placed an add for the cars in next month's SCCA The Wheel magazine.   
Dave H.


>     On 11/07/2021 11:52 AM LEE FOLLANSBEE <65356sc at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Wow those look like bargains.
> 
>     Someone buy these and go racing with VARA!
> 
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 5:05 PM
>     To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: [Fot] SCCA TR6 and Spitfire for sale
> 
>     Hello Friends,
>     I've been connected with a retired racer that is selling his cars.  That racer is Don McCoy.  The cars are in Half Moon Bay, California.  
>     I went to see the cars today and I told Don I'd share them with you all.  I think the cars are terrific.  They are work horse racers with lots of patina, but they are well developed and put together with excellent components and are basically ready to race.  
>     Don completely went through the drivetrains and brakes to refresh them for sale.  They haven't been raced since around 2001.  Both cars were cold started and I was impressed.  They both fired immediately and sounded great.  No fuss or smoke.  
>     The TR6 originally came out of Pennsylvania and Lanky Forshee helped set up the front suspension.  Don ran the car competitively against Lee Muller here on the west coast.  
>     Don is asking $15K for the TR6 and $5K for the Spitfire.  Spares included.  Body panels, drivetrain components, wheels and misc.  Also, radio communications for both cars.  His asking price seems very reasonable to me.  I have no financial interest.  
>     I have cold start video of both cars.
>     For more information, Don's number is 415-297-5194
>     Best,
>     Dave Hogye
>     831-234-4928
> 
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 16:50:04 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (Dave Hogye)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:50:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 and Spitfire photos
Message-ID: <7319F901-3D99-4E55-A371-ECBE5EDFA361@comcast.net>



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Sent from my iPhone

From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov  7 16:51:18 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <5B8DC37F-2764-41F9-AECA-7A696BDF0A5C@icloud.com>

Also, the O-rings for the operating lever seem to be slightly too small to do a good job sealing the side cover. Has anyone found a good source of these O-rings that fit properly?  Same question for the selector rod o-rings on the top cover. Those always seem too small and sit too far in their respective bores to seal against the cover. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2021, at 5:07 PM, Dean <tr3a58dean at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.
> Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.
>  
> Dean T.
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Greg Blake via Fot
> Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: Fot
> Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
>  
> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>  
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>  
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>  
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.  Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum.
>  
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>  
> Greg
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>  
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>  
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:11:34 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:11:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cold start video
Message-ID: <1188296385.1379437.1636330294753@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy Spitfire race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEDCCCg0aBg
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From dlhogye at comcast.net  Sun Nov  7 17:27:32 2021
From: dlhogye at comcast.net (DAVE HOGYE)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:27:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 race car cold start video
Message-ID: <1788459547.1379959.1636331252207@connect.xfinity.com>

Don McCoy TR6 race car for sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mecCy9yTLVg
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From tr4 at wi.rr.com  Sun Nov  7 18:07:22 2021
From: tr4 at wi.rr.com (Steve Yott)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 19:07:22 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
Message-ID: <mailman.619.1638252740.13061.fot@autox.team.net>

I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.Steve Yott
-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21  5:08 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.?Dean T.??Sent from Mail for Windows?From: Greg Blake via FotSent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PMTo: FotSubject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks?I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. ?To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. ?When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again??I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. ?Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. ?Greg?Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr3a58dean at gmail.com???
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From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Sun Nov  7 20:55:36 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:55:36 +1000
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0S_Eo1gnMX47d6DT=OVpZ+QkTgkj4LiNN=rmTFu_p4LA@mail.gmail.com>

the adapter plate was indeed wired ex factory for older models, eg TR2, TR3.

By the time TR6 came along, there was a version of "loctite"

Ive rebuilt hundeds and never had this happen

Suggest you check the tapped holes in the back of the case

terry



On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:51 AM Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was
> removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly.
>
> To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely
> attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed
> backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover.
> Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose.
>
> When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of
> these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every
> seen these bolts back out like this before?  Any suggestions on repair work
> to make sure this doesn?t happen again?
>
> I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.
> Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded
> into aluminum.
>
> Appreciate all thoughts on the mater.
>
> Greg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au
>
>
>
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From vintagenick42 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  7 21:00:30 2021
From: vintagenick42 at yahoo.com (Nick Black)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 04:00:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
References: <A0B156C6-CEF8-47F7-A06C-0D2AABCFA77B@hxcore.ol>
 <20211108011232.CB5E3A0FF9@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <535329805.544532.1636344030948@mail.yahoo.com>

 
Greg etal,Remove the bolts holding the plate to the trans and deposit them in the nearest trashcan!The torque figure on those bolts is something like 20 or 25 pounds and at 26 pounds they stretch. You will find the bolts neatly wired and loose as the forces of the od engaging stretches them, and then the leaking starts.I use internal socket head bolts (to get the small head) and drill them for safety wire. The bolts are much higher strength and do not stretch...no more leaks.
clean floors in norcalnick    On Sunday, November 7, 2021, 05:12:33 PM PST, Steve Yott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I always use new Lockwell screws sold only by Rimmer Bros.? These have the small 7/16" head a built in flat washer and pre-applied thread locker.? Never had these back out.
The adapter plates are a normal source of leaking especially on the bottom with only two? bolts spaced 6" apart which is too far.? The Healey adaptors have a third bolt in the middle and much easier to keep dry.


Steve Yott

-------- Original message --------From: Dean via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Date: 11/7/21 5:08 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>, Fot <fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

The early one?s always had the bolts for the adapter plate safety wired. I always safety wired all the bolts on transmissions I rebuilt.

Make sure they are wired in the correct direction. There is a right and wrong way to run them.

?

Dean T.

?

?

Sent from Mail for Windows

?

From: Greg Blake via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 7, 2021 5:50 PM
To: Fot
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

?

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

?

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

?

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

?

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

?

Greg

?

Sent from my iPhone

_______________________________________________

fot at autox.team.net

?

http://www.fot-racing.com

?

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?
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Mon Nov  8 07:57:33 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 14:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>

 I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 09:32:23 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 16:32:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Fw:  Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1922608350.1475065.1636389143104@mail.yahoo.com>

 I have rebuilt dozens of these, both for my race car and a number of street cars.? For the race car, I found a machinist (ex TR-3 racer) who could drill and tap 2 additional 1/4" holes in the adapter plate & gearbox housing, to the inside of the 2 bottom bolts that are about 6" apart.? These bolts are as close to the gearbox housing as he could get, and still fit them in.? I think we used a short (3/4" long?) 1/4" grade 8 bolt with Locktite.? This seemed to reduce the leakage considerably.
If Bryan Brazelton has one of my old overdrive gearboxes around, perhaps he could check the exact location of the 2 additional bolts and let the FOT know.? I know I sold at least one close ratio overdrive gearbox with the car and a straight close ration 4 speed.? Don't know exactly what is with the car today.
Cheers.
Jack Wheeler

   ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: fubog1 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>To: fot at autox.team.net <fot at autox.team.net>Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021, 10:01:27 AM ESTSubject: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
  I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use.I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite.Done deal...
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before?? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again?

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the.? Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov  8 15:57:10 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 23:57:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks
In-Reply-To: <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E7B84764-76B0-403F-A276-EFB33EFAA109@icloud.com>
 <1492650913.2297162.1636383453529@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1127186637.37294184.1636412230667.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>

Very good idea not to use gaskets that can compress! (like "gasket makers"). 
Marcel 


Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 8 november 2021 15:57:33 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I don't use the gasket because it can compress slightly when things get loaded in use. 
I go metal on metal, chamfer/deburr/dress the mating faces, clean, Permatex "right stuff", good grade 8 bolts & red loctite. 
Done deal... 

Glen Efinger 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2021 5:50 pm 
Subject: [Fot] Type A OD leaks 

I removed my TR6 type A OD box out of the TR3 race car today. It was removed because the last time on track, it was leaking badly. 

To my surprise, I found that the OD adapter plate was very loosely attached to the rear of the transmission, in fact two bolts had completed backed out and I found them when I removed the accumulator piston cover. Upon further disassembly I found that all of the adapter bolts were loose. 

When I built this transmission 2 years ago, I used red locktite on all of these bolts. I also had use the thin gasket with hylomar. Has anyone every seen these bolts back out like this before? Any suggestions on repair work to make sure this doesn?t happen again? 

I?m thinking of drilling all bolt heads and safety wiring all of the. Have also thought of using helicoil on all of these since they are threaded into aluminum. 

Appreciate all thoughts on the mater. 

Greg 

Sent from my iPhone 
_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  8 18:26:58 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Dellorto dhle45
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB451479CCCBF96BC62DA197B7BA929@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Is anybody running a Dellorto dhle 45 on their Spitfire?  I purchased one locally because it was there and want to give it a try after I rebuild it over the winter. I'm hoping somebody is running one (or possible a Webber 45 dcoe) that might be able to give me some tips on their setup to shorten my learning curve.

Thanks,
Marty
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From kekjacobsen at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:04:59 2021
From: kekjacobsen at yahoo.com (Erik Jacobsen)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:04:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>

Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  9 07:19:32 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:19:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.? I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.? This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.? It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.
After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.? They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.? In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.
The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.? I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.? Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.
Good luck.
Jack Wheeler? 

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.??
Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From ofracer at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 07:25:49 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 09:25:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
and they're on the way.
NFI, just passing this on

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
> keep it all in one piece.
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
> pistons floating around on the net.
>
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From ac at camoletti.ch  Tue Nov  9 09:44:38 2021
From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:44:38 +0100
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons
 and liners
Message-ID: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>

Gents, 

I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference).

 

De : Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy? : mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
? : Erik Jacobsen
Cc : FOT Triumph
Objet : Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.

NFI, just passing this on

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5

 

mike h

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage> 
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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 10:13:26 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 12:13:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>

I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?

The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
Phil G

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
> 
> mike h
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
> 
> 
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From yellow04 at tr4racer.com  Tue Nov  9 10:24:01 2021
From: yellow04 at tr4racer.com (yellow04 at tr4racer.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 12:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).


From paulricco at att.net  Tue Nov  9 10:57:09 2021
From: paulricco at att.net (Paul Ricco)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:57:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <E00A5FCC-257F-48B6-A035-232C9DD7F1AE@att.net>

As a very good industrial trainer once told me while I was being certified to work with products that his company manufactures, 

?There has been millions of dollars in research spent to develop the products that we engineer and sell.  They all work perfectly if you follow the directions provided with them.  However, most people do not follow the directions and they get less than ideal results?

So in short I have learned that there are a lot of good approaches, if they are executed properly and the owner is happy with the path chosen.

Paul Ricco

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
>> Gents,
>> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
>> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
>> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
>> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
>> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
>> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
>> which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/paulricco at att.net
> 
> 



From dmar823 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  9 13:20:54 2021
From: dmar823 at gmail.com (Don Marshall)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
Message-ID: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> >
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 14:53:20 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] FW:  TR3 Race pistons and liners
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1080416808.1778147.1636467572325@mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <001a01d7d5b4$3652bae0$a2f830a0$@comcast.net>

 

Jack,

I use the Wiseco pop ups for the same reason. I have a big investment in my head and so I didn?t want to mill it so far as to sacrifice reliability.

My last one cracked at a water jacket.

I use BFE supplied liners  ( LA Sleeve ).

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Jack Wheeler via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Erik Jacobsen <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com <mailto:kekjacobsen at yahoo.com> >
Cc: FOT Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

Thirty + years ago I modified a set of pop-up pistons made for a Chevy.  I shaped the pop-up portion to fit into the combustion chamber of the TR cylinder head.  This gave me higher compression without having to mill the head so much.  It was a long time ago, but I think I was running 13.5:1 compression with .150" milled off the head.

 

After I won The Runoffs in 1990, Cosworth contacted me and wanted to know what pistons I was using.  They asked if they could borrow one of my pistons to use as a template for a pop-up piston for the TR engine.  In return, they gave me a set of new Cosworth pop-up pistons ready to install, without modification.

 

The advantage of the pop-up design is that you don't have to mill as much off the head, thus extending cylinder head life.  I suspect these Cosworth pistons may still be available through a Cosworth dealer.  Perhaps someone on the FOT knows if these are still available.

 

Good luck.

 

Jack Wheeler  

 

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021, 09:05:33 AM EST, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote: 

 

 

Good morning FoT!

Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 

There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  

 

Thanks!

Jake & Karen Jacobsen 

_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive  <http://autox.team.net/archive%20> http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com

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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 15:03:59 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 15:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
 <174fb255d67d57acb66fb58301a66315@tr4racer.com>
 <CALsVEtA1aL+wgB3K4yXv7JTKN42qzoDRW0KqWqDy_rUW-KXGeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage> 
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com



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From vfracing at aol.com  Tue Nov  9 15:06:56 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (Philip Gott)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 17:06:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.
> jg
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
> Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
> To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com
> Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners
>  
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
> pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> > Gents,
> > 
> > I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> > that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> > shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> > detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> > was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> > remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> > which can make quite an additional difference).
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/dmar823 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
> 
> 
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Tue Nov  9 16:59:02 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 16:59:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
References: <003601d7d5b5$b3391b20$19ab5160$@comcast.net>
 <26DD4E4B-373A-4F51-BCBB-27A58FCA6689@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01f701d7d5c5$c5aecd80$510c6880$@comcast.net>

Yeah I don?t think that?s gonna buff out.

 

From: Philip Gott <vfracing at aol.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 3:07 PM
To: Jim Gray <toodamnfunky at comcast.net>
Cc: Don Marshall <dmar823 at gmail.com>; yellow04 at tr4racer.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 



Sent from my iPhone





On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Jim Gray via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

?

Either a catastrophic, nonlinear mechanical exasperation or a sudden un scheduled disassembly.

jg

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> > On Behalf Of Don Marshall via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 1:21 PM
To: yellow04 at tr4racer.com <mailto:yellow04 at tr4racer.com> 
Cc: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> >
Subject: Re: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

 

 

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

A heck of a lot of races have been won by wet-liner TR's running pop-up 
pistons. And I'll bet none of them ever had a head collapse.

Just sayin'...

On 2021-11-09 11:44, Alexandre Camoletti via Fot wrote:
> Gents,
> 
> I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books
> that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific
> shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was
> detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this
> was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to
> remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket,
> which can make quite an additional difference).
_______________________________________________
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Tue Nov  9 19:55:57 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 21:55:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <74343089-471D-4286-B063-85F3D6B3DBFE@icloud.com>

I?ve been running a TR3 with the same Wiseco flattop 87mm pistons since 2009. I?ve rebuilt the motor twice since the initial build in 2009. Both times it was a broken crank, but the pistons survived. 

The latest version, I built in 2010, has 13:1 compression. 

This setup has proven to be extremely reliable. Last time I had the head off was in 2012. The car is pretty competitive as well.  Lately I seem to be out driving the brakes and transmission, but that?s another topic.  

I think someone else made the point already, but pick a path and be methodical in preparation and execution and you will be happy. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:05 AM, Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Good morning FoT!
> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
> 
> Thanks!
> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Wed Nov 10 07:27:04 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race
 pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
References: <007201d7d589$15ff7ce0$41fe76a0$@camoletti.ch>
Message-ID: <449850039.284964.1636554424886@mail.yahoo.com>

 The lump on the piston sure will disrupt flame travel & swirl, and that can lead to detonation.You'll be able to see it on the chamber/piston top; it'll be perfectly clean where there hasn't been any burn.A .050ish lump works well if the edges are all chamfered so that the mixture isn't trapped anywhere, but the pistons with a real "dome" that don't require much head milling are worthless in a race engine.
Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Camoletti via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: 'Mike Harmuth' <ofracer at gmail.com>; 'Erik Jacobsen' <kekjacobsen at yahoo.com>
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2021 11:44 am
Subject: [Fot] pop up pistons for the TR2-4 engine ? RE: TR3 Race pistons and liners

<!--#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 p.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 li.yiv4466933430MsoNormal, #yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv4466933430 a:link, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 a:visited, #yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4466933430 span.yiv4466933430EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Garamond", "serif";color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;}#yiv4466933430 .yiv4466933430MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv4466933430 filtered {}#yiv4466933430 div.yiv4466933430WordSection1 {}-->Gents, I recall, but I may be mistaken, that Kas wrote in one of his books that he had experimented pop up pistons but because of the specific shape of the TR2-4 combustion chambers the pop up design was detrimental to the propagation of the flame front and actually this was offsetting the compression gain, so he abandoned this route to remain on the traditional milling one (with thin steel headgasket, which can make quite an additional difference). ?De?: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Mike Harmuth via Fot
Envoy??: mardi 9 novembre 2021 15:26
??: Erik Jacobsen
Cc?: FOT Triumph
Objet?: Re: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners ?I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original?owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.NFI, just passing this on ?https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5 ?mike h ?On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
Good morning FoT!Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece.?There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.?? ?Thanks!Jake & Karen Jacobsen?_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 10 09:08:59 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 11:08:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
References: <5ECBF761-00D2-491B-96F9-A4B5AAA23826@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B7207FA9-30B1-4227-9091-73F928D363AD@yahoo.com>

Years ago I had a local speed shop order me a couple of sets of hardened steel lightweight wrist pins for my 87 mm pistons.  Worked great.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 12:14 PM, Philip Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I looked into those Venolia pistons. They come without wrist pins. Sourcing wrist pins alone is an issue, and they need to be matched to the piston. Just a heads up?
> 
> The way you propose to use the car, the flat top County Pistons and matched liners available from most suppliers will do fine. You will need to shave the head just to maintain your stock effective compression ratio due to the late closing of the intake valve with that cam. Take .100 off the head, clean up the combustion chambers and enjoy.
> Phil G
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday and they're on the way.
>> NFI, just passing this on
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>> 
>> mike h
>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> Good morning FoT!
>>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi) streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to keep it all in one piece. 
>>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race pistons floating around on the net.  
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From hankgiffin at cox.net  Thu Nov 11 00:35:33 2021
From: hankgiffin at cox.net (Henry Giffin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 02:35:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 ENGINE PARTS FOR SALE
Message-ID: <000c01d7d6ce$b71654a0$2542fde0$@cox.net>

FoT - I am again selling these TR3/4 engine parts I purchased for a project
no longer in the works.  The attachment lists the parts as I bought them,
plus comments. A very experienced machinist went through them and
unfortunately there were problems with some of them the seller was not aware
of.  The machinist's appraisal and comments are below.

   I do not see a time when I will need these parts.  The seller does not
need them back.  I paid $5K and the seller said he had over $7700 in them.
But the head is probably not usable for racing, the cam is not usable, the
rods need reconditioning, and the Moldex crank needs a regrind and hardening
if you want to use a .030 crank.  There is still a lot of good stuff here.
I will accept a reasonable offer.  

   I also have 3 parts at the bottom of this email not included in the
engine parts (Flywheel, Clutch, Detroit Locker)

   I can bring everything to the Turkey Bowl if desired.  Thanks, Hank

 

MACHINIST'S COMMENTS :

"New parts appear OK to include-

Tappets 8X

Roller rocker assy

EC510 lower gasket set

Steel head gasket

Bronze v/guides 8X 

Clevite .010 pair bearings rod 8X.

Set King main bearings .020.

Set copper figure-8

Set CPK868 040 liners

Set Wiseco 87mm custom pistons w/Grant ring set

Rolon timing chain

 

Used OK-

ARP head stud set 

Adj cam gear (some wear)

Rear seal housing

 

 

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.  (Hank - this
head is probably usable on a street car but not for racing)

 

Crank, it'll take $500-600 to get this crank liquid mag crack check, ground
to spec, and balanced.

Then it's a .030 regrind, and I would be concerned about how deep the
hardness is.

This may warrant a call to Moldex. ( Hank- Moldex says to regrind and
reharden would be $450)

Core value if not cracked, maybe 1k?

You have to consider that at .030, its life is about over, and a new one
would be a much better investment.  (Hank - yes, but this is a lot less
expensive.  So a trade off)

Crankshaft is undated used & reground Moldex, dimensions as follows-

Mains (std spec 2.4790-2.4795)

1- 2.4587

2- 2.4584

3- 2.4591

This indicates a regrind to .020 and a variation of .0007 would preclude
setting oil clearances to spec. The mains will require regrinding to .030
spec.

 

Rod journals (std spec 2.0866-2.0866)

1- 2.0659

2- 2.0756

3- 2.0752

4- 2.0756

The #1 journal has been reground to .020. the others .010.  (Hank - not
understandable why this was done)

#1 journal also has several areas with original surface unground, indicating
prior damage to journal which necessitated a .020 regrind.

There is a .0004 variation between the other 3 journals and they are ground
outside the limit for regrind, so it's unlikely that they would fall within
the specs for required oil clearance anyway.

The rod journals will require grinding to .030 to exact spec.

 

The rear seal journal is 2.4994 and in good condition.

 

Connecting rods-

Small-end bushes appear to be new.

Big-end housing bore surface as removed from engine, not cleaned.

Heavy blackening/deposits on housing bores indicates poor bearing back
surface contact with housing bore prior to what was likely catastrophic
bearing failure.

Also some isolated burnished areas where bearing shells were starting to
'shuffle" after bearings started to deform & parting lines closed up.

Mic #1 rod housing bore, in spec, approx .0005 "cap shift".

Will require reconditioning to some degree as required.

(note these rods best done by manufacturer vs local machine shop.

 

Cylinder head-

Small port big-valve 4A head w/port work.

Thickness is 3.170 and nearly all inlet shrouding has been removed

Center water port crack present and multiple drillings/pins crack
repair/stop drilled.

Crack-check surface center, see photos (I can provide if interested - Hank).

All valves/seats are too deep.

Did not check further, will require teardown, full crack-check & inspection
to determine suitability for use but will require valve seats to restore
valve height, at a minimum.

The cracks may not preclude using it but better used original cores & new
are available as alternatives.

Valves, retainers, springs all appear as new.

Head, can't tell how far the cracks may radiate inside.

The pins are all above a water jacket but could travel towards chamber,
impossible to tell how far they go.

The head may be perfectly usable but I would be a little nervous about it
and would not be inclined to take any chance with it.

Besides that, the seats have to be replaced and ports reworked to suit, they
are WAY too deep, especially on a performance application, this is very
basic stuff.

In any case it has parts value, ie valves, springs, hardware.

 

 

Block- Did NOT check housing bore, deck for square etc.

It's apparent that the liner seats have been machined, new cam bearings
fitted & ?

Will require detailed cleaning and inspection to determine condition.  (Hank
- the block appears to be very usable)

 

Oil pump-

Used/recon?

Housing is brass-bushed.

Disassemble, oil ports have been opened up & rotors appear to be OK but it
has excessive shaft clearance/wobble, and way too much end clearance & end
plate wear.

The pump would be marginally serviceable but have a short service life.

 

Used parts including hardware, sealing block, crank gear, dist shaft & gear,
oil sump, crank snout, stock pulley etc included but not inspected.

Some are routine replacement items, some usable as cores, some junk, not a
lot of real value in these parts in any case."

 

OTHER PARTS NOT INCLUDED WITH ENGINE PARTS:

Fidanza flywheel #172441 T4 new in box (cost $369) - $200

Tilton Clutch 7 ? #908Q/7261 new in box - $150

Detroit Locker used excellent (Summit sells new for $469) - $100

 

Thanks, Hank

 

Hank Giffin

757-375-1491

hankgiffin at cox.net

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From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Nov 11 14:39:27 2021
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [TR] TR4 race car
In-Reply-To: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
References: <001d01d7d73f$f12feb80$d38fc280$@uprichard.net>
Message-ID: <6c108bf5-74aa-56de-32b8-ea92ee5678c0@bradakis.com>

That paint scheme looks vaguely familiar.? Anyone know this car?



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[TR] TR4 race car
Date: 	Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:06:04 -0500
From: 	auprichard at uprichard.net
To: 	'Triumph Mailing List' <triumphs at autox.team.net>



Listers:? I have come across a TR4 race car which is basically a body on 
a frame:? no engine, transmission or interior.? Also no title or vin plate.

I have had the car in the air and the frame appears really solid.? 
Likewise the body is remarkably rust-free.? The fenders are metal, but 
they have been flared to accommodate wider wheels.

I have many more pics if anyone is interested in knowing more.

The car is located in Jackson, Michigan. I?d like to get $1200 for it, 
but I am open to offers.

Andrew Uprichard
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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 21:51:26 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 20:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
Message-ID: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>

Hello FOT,

If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.

Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa

The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.

Curt Johnston
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From curt.johnston at comcast.net  Thu Nov 11 23:28:05 2021
From: curt.johnston at comcast.net (Curt Johnston)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 22:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
In-Reply-To: <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
References: <993963088.349040.1636692686399@connect.xfinity.com>
 <000701d7d78a$3886b550$a9941ff0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1280077004.350212.1636698485916@connect.xfinity.com>

Chris,

You're absolutely correct on the trans gearing.  Down the straight I was at 7000+ RPM in 5th, and only doing about 115.  It is a BL 5 speed from the Huffaker TR8 and this track showed how wrong it is.  

The original trans for the car is a Spitfire 4 speed, but it was built without a reverse (the reverse gear pin would sheer off all the time).  Over the winter, Joe Carr (the original Huffaker mechanic for the car) has committed to engineer the trans to get a working reverse.  The 4 speed gearing should work better with the rear end.  You may have noticed, that I didn't drop into second gear when needed as well.  Shifting down to second was nearly impossible about half the time.  We just can't get parts to make things right.  Of course a dog box would solve the problems, but I'm trying to keep the car original.  Cheers.

Curt Johnston

>     On 11/11/2021 9:57 PM tr4racing at googlemail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Hi Curt,
> 
> 
>     nice ride. Good line.
> 
>     Odd gearing?.the jump 3rd to 4th is too short, and also from 4th to 5th you?re running out of revs all the time and the engine seem not linking to rev too high.
> 
> 
>     The TR6 at the beginning in front of you has an interesting damping?.almost no damping.
> 
>     Walzing Mathilda back end J
> 
> 
>     Cheers
> 
>     Chris
> 
> 
> 
>     Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Curt Johnston via Fot
>     Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2021 05:51
>     An: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>     Betreff: [Fot] COTA Race Weekend
> 
> 
>     Hello FOT,
> 
>      
> 
>     If you haven't raced at Circuit Of The Americas (COTA), you've got to put it on your list.  While I'm only a handful of race weekends into my vintage racing, this track is my new favorite.  Sure would be special to hold a Kastner Cup there some day.
> 
>      
> 
>     Here's a couple laps from this past weekend in my TR7: https://gopro.com/v/Rogg1kNJ6nnJa
> 
>      
> 
>     The TR7 is underpowered on the long straights, but handles the curves really well.  The video quality from GoPro is really good.  Much better than YouTube.
> 
>      
> 
>     Curt Johnston
> 
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 13 10:48:35 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 12:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR3 Race pistons and liners
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <801245880.1258573.1636466699327.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <801245880.1258573.1636466699327@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAO0FjVZ+qD0XKT2A1ZsZRfa--a6cTOnFXsS9RbMSH4+oHOUeuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVa5aEXz-zpF8hdB=F=LJxkFhHnO33d2JeoX8x6hV4gWNA@mail.gmail.com>

Just an update on the pistons I ordered from Paeco. I received them
yesterday and they were not Venolia, as advertised, but Ross. They were the
specs advertised but not the brand, I asked for a refund and received a
prepaid return label this morning.

Buyer beware

thanks
mike h

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:25 AM Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know what size jugs you have on the engine but I came across these
> new Venolia TR pistons on E-Bay the other day. The shop selling them has
> gotten some bad press since the original owner moved on but it looks like
> they're in the process of selling off old inventory and these seem like a
> good price. I bought a set of Venolia Spitfire pistons from them yesterday
> and they're on the way.
> NFI, just passing this on
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/384398239541?hash=item597feba735:g:fxIAAOSwUYVheVG5
>
> mike h
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 9:05 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Good morning FoT!
>> Karen and I are working on the TR3 race car, and are looking for your
>> advice on pistons and liners for it. We are attempting to build a (semi)
>> streetable race motor for our 3. It has a Crane 244-310-8 cam, and the head
>> has been ported and is running big valves, so we are figuring the
>> compression should be in the 10.5-11.5:1 range. It has H-beam rods and a
>> worked crank, but we will still keep the revs under 6500 in an attempt to
>> keep it all in one piece.
>> There seems to be very little info on what people are running for race
>> pistons floating around on the net.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jake & Karen Jacobsen
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>>
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Sun Nov 14 17:36:24 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:36:24 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
Message-ID: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>

I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 

Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 

Sent from my iPhone

From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 14 18:23:58 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> 
> 


From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au  Mon Nov 15 04:10:05 2021
From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:10:05 +1000
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun
gear , annulus and 3-gear set

Terry


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal
> to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear
> appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way
> to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems
> good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue
> color.
> >
> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different
> gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just
> skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying
> around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a
> shot.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > fot at autox.team.net
> >
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be  Mon Nov 15 05:22:08 2021
From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be (van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 13:22:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <612967081.55726738.1636978928532.JavaMail.zimbra@telenet.be>



I don't think the blue color does mean a thing. Some Fot members, like Chuck Gee, will know for sure. 
The standard overdrive ratio's of the Triumph cars (TR, saloons and Stag) are not very different. The ratio is often marked in the casing : something like 25 or 22, but none of the standard ratio's will improve the 3 O/D use that much : the power loss through the overdrive will not be compensated by the better overall gearing, but it can come in handy sometimes to engage 3rd O/D for just a couple of seconds and then again go to 3rd 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "Bob Kramer" <rkramer56 at gmail.com> 
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Maandag 15 november 2021 12:10:05 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild 

there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set 
Terry 


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 


JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread. 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 
> 
> I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> _______________________________________________ 
> [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 
> 
> [ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 
> 
> Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
> Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com ] 
> 
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_______________________________________________ 
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http://www.fot-racing.com 

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From rjl6n at cstone.net  Mon Nov 15 06:47:17 2021
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (R. John Lye)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:47:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>

JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
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?


From robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 08:37:42 2021
From: robertlangtr6 at yahoo.com (Robert Lang)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:37:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
Message-ID: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>

 The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>
>
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From jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 15 09:31:28 2021
From: jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com (Jack Wheeler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:31:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <1636984037.03x80k9xcw8kkg00@webmail.lumos.net>
 <151887051.1874616.1636990662042@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1017086544.844007.1636993888194@mail.yahoo.com>

 When I raced at a long track with some tight turns, like Road Atlanta or Road America, I used a 4.3 rear end gear with the Dolomite close ratio gears and an A-Type overdrive.? This combination gave me a good second gear for the tight turns (e.g. turn 7 at Road Atlanta), and the overdrive gave me a good top end for the long straights at both tracks.
Turns 5 and 6 at Road America is a good example of where you might use 2nd gear direct for turn 5, an upshift into 2nd overdrive on the hill up to turn 6, then back down to 2nd direct for turn 6.
I hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jack

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 10:38:14 AM EST, Robert Lang via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
  The set that JK used was the late layshaft cluster and then the dolomite sprint 3rd / 4th set. When mixed with the overdrive, you get the most useful gear combos.
O/D 3rd is more for not doing a 3rd to 4th shift on both A and J-types, as is 2nd O/D for the A type. In both cases, while you get the extra gears, you don't really get any advantage rowing through them as opposed to grabbing a gear in a quick burst.
FWIW, 2nd o/d is awesome for an autocrosser.? ;-)
c ya,Bob Lang

    On Monday, November 15, 2021, 08:47:36 AM EST, R. John Lye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 JK also had a set that he used for O/D gearboxes to make the splits more even.
I am not sure what they were, but they worked well.

John






On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:23:58 -0600, Bob Kramer via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
>
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color.
>
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
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From cartravel at pobox.com  Mon Nov 15 09:42:43 2021
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:42:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31E8725B-6B7E-4D77-849C-3DC3FF3ED35E@icloud.com>
 <41018C46-3083-4170-84E4-609A2424661E@gmail.com>
 <CA+UW8b0UmpZY4gv5m1o53HsZRP5sJBsLRArvN_-qU+iNOO8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fa9362b-aad3-1ead-6910-9e3650681207@pobox.com>

Greg, you did not mention what ratios you have. During my short racing 
career I tried numerous gear combinations. 20% jumps seem to be about 
right for the upper gears in our cars, which is what a standard A-type 
overdrive gives (22% or 0.82). The standard gearbox ratios give about a 
30% jump between 3rd and 4th, while the close ratio gears are closer to 
20%, so standard gears give a 3rd overdrive which is 10% lower than 4th, 
while with a close ratio box they are essentially the same. The 
advantage of the overdrive is to give a useable gear between 2nd and 
3rd. I don't see how you can improve on the combination of an OD and 
close ratio box with a 4.55 rear. I found it useful to have two ways to 
get the same gear because sometimes it is easier/quicker to shift the OD 
rather than the transmission. Everyone say overdrives are temperamental 
and add weight. I never found mine to be a problem and a small 
improvement in gearing can easily make up for the extra weight.

The alternative OD ratios I've seen are larger than 20%. You'd have to 
go to a very large OD ratio to get a useable 3rd-OD which is between 3rd 
and 4th. Some of the alternate OD ratios are probably better for highway 
cruising.

On 11/15/2021 5:10 AM, Enquiries Road & Track via Fot wrote:
> there are several different overdrive ratios, you need to change the 
> sun gear , annulus and 3-gear set
>
> Terry
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 11:24 AM Bob Kramer via Fot 
> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with
>     the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>     > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot
>     <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>     >
>     > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car.
>     Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color
>     now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by
>     over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective,
>     just concerned about the slight blue color.
>     >
>     > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of
>     different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and
>     4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I
>     have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a
>     combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot.
>     >
>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > fot at autox.team.net
>     >
>     > http://www.fot-racing.com
>     >
>     > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive
>     http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>     > Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>     >
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     fot at autox.team.net
>
>     http://www.fot-racing.com
>
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive
>     http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>     <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:http://autox.team.net/archive  http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
>
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From alfetta95 at optonline.net  Mon Nov 15 12:50:35 2021
From: alfetta95 at optonline.net (Alfetta95)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:50:35 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
Message-ID: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?   Should I just toss it and buy new?   

Todd


From vfracing at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 13:12:55 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 20:12:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
References: <5742A461-D2C7-4E92-91B0-BF80657B7D92@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>

when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends

I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? 

Todd
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From steve at artwithcars.com  Mon Nov 15 13:16:07 2021
From: steve at artwithcars.com (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 12:16:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>

Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve


> On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> when in doubt, throw it out!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
> Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
> 
> Friends
> 
> I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.  Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?  Should I just toss it and buy new?  
> 
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve at artwithcars.com
> 
> 
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From rek46 at aol.com  Mon Nov 15 14:14:43 2021
From: rek46 at aol.com (rek46)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:14:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter
In-Reply-To: <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
References: <1770252767.652665.1637007175025@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2A8F4CE7-C6A3-4D1B-98BF-252148236035@artwithcars.com>
Message-ID: <1415254763.2007961.1637010883911@mail.yahoo.com>

USE ONLY DISTILLED WATER....ALL? DRUG STORES HAVE IT.
?
In a message dated 11/15/2021 3:36:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, fot at autox.team.net writes:?
Dispose of it responsibly and use plain water instead

~Steve?

On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:13 PM, Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



when in doubt, throw it out!


-----Original Message-----
From: Alfetta95 via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Water Wetter

Friends?I have an opened bottle of Red Line Water Wetter that I used several years ago.? Any idea how long it will last in the the original bottle?? Should I just toss it and buy new?? ?Todd_______________________________________________fot at autox.team.net?http://www.fot-racing.com?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vfracing at aol.com??_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

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Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve at artwithcars.com



_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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From gblake58tr3 at icloud.com  Mon Nov 15 14:38:29 2021
From: gblake58tr3 at icloud.com (Greg Blake)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:38:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again. 

Great stuff. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This is one of those emails to save.  Great info, especially the part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
> 
> I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.  The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
> 
> I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft is set up for RHD. 
> 
> 
> Bob Kramer
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:27 PM Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:
>> OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best! The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is. 
>> 
>> To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
>> 
>> Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
>> 
>> As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top. We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear. What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate! 
>> 
>> The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings! 
>> 
>> The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
>> 
>> I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
>> 
>> Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
>> 
>> Henry Frye
>> Triumph Technology Consultants
>> 860.508.3118 - mobile
>> 
>> From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
>> To: Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com>
>> Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>  
>> Henry,
>> 
>> Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?  I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair. 
>> 
>> That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces. 
>> 
>> Here is a screen shot from the Moss description. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:42 AM, Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
>>> 
>>> I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing. 
>>> 
>>> Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
>>> 
>>> I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
>>> 
>>> That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD. 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> Sent from phone
>>> From: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
>>> To: Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com>
>>> Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>>  
>>> Henry 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!   Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.  The endurance TR6 has the close ratio set.  It is easiest to start with a 73 or later TR6 box. 
>>>  
>>> Bob Kramer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:27 AM Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Bob,
>>> 
>>> I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!
>>> 
>>> Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.
>>> 
>>> https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088 
>>> 
>>> Henry Frye
>>> Triumph Technology Consultants
>>> 860.508.3118 (c)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
>>> To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
>>> Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
>>> 
>>> JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?  Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
>>> > 
>>> > Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?  Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
>>> > 
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > fot at autox.team.net
>>> > 
>>> > http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> > 
>>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer56 at gmail.com
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>> 
>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/yellow04 at tr4racer.com
>>> 
>>> 
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From fubog1 at aol.com  Tue Nov 16 07:43:43 2021
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:43:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild
In-Reply-To: <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
References: <CABFvdWv_F_5gcLyr=rkpXLQZDbN1THb_HcBUQzs=KbOH=W_Gzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <B257F6DC-7BED-4B00-9A2E-9EC2638F3B4C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1703120853.2265488.1637073824079@mail.yahoo.com>

 Very good write-up Henry!How I long for the days of the blue & white box marked TKC454...

Glen Efinger
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>; Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2021 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

Agreed. Forwarding to FOT so it makes the archives. That way when I ask this question again in 2 years, someone will remind me to search the archives, again.?
Great stuff.?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com> wrote:



?This is one of those emails?to save.? Great info, especially the?part that makes it sound like my brain still works. I remember now that I bought a 2nd gear on eBay for a later cluster gear because I didn't have a good later one even though I did have the cluster. Pretty sure Marcel has that gearbox, probably sitting and replaced with a dog box.
I have built 3 CR gear boxes and I did a lot of studying each time, and was confused along the way.? The TRF Blue TR6 catalog is a tremendous resource in that area.
I have a Stag Overdrive gearbox sitting and a CR set new in the box for the next time I need one. It has the longer pilot snout and if I recall (here we go again) the clutch shaft?is set up for RHD.?


Bob Kramer

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:27 PM Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:

OK, my bad. I replied without looking at the diagram, and just like Bob, relying on the memory these days is sketchy at best!?The close ratio gearset consists of 4 pieces, the new input shaft, which is 4th gear, and the corresponding layshaft gear, plus the two gears that make third. Since the input shaft set drives the layshaft, and it is a different ratio from stock, that's why the first and second gear ratios change. That funky steel bush that is shown is needed so the set will run with either of the mainshafts, you might need it, you might not depending on what size the end of the mainshaft is.?
To build the ultimate box, you DO want to start with gearset from a late TR6, because that will get you a TKC454, the second gear that uses the steel top hat bush. We like the TKC454 instead of the one that used the bronze top hat bush that bronze bush always breaks! However, the replacement bush you get these days for second gear on the mainshaft is a steel two-piece affair, and I have built several boxes with that steel bush assembly with good results. I would put that into a race box without hesitation if I could not get my hands on a TKC454.
Like 15 - 20 years ago I could find an NOS TKC454 every now and again, and somebody even made them for a while, but I never thought those repro gears were all that much to write home about. I don't think the snycros grabbed the cone all that well.
As far as what you get, forth gear is 1:1, just like stock, so your top end calculations do not change. C/r second gear is pretty close to stock third gear, and c/r third is an even split between c/r second and top.?We really don't care all that much about the first gear ratio, it's a paddock only gear.?What many guys have found is if you run a 4:10 rear and have a billet bottom end and have a cam that will make power to 7K, you do not need an overdrive for the tracks we run. If you run one of those tracks like the old TWS where you actually get to maximum velocity and just run at that speed, well, you might need an overdrive! I used OD in my TR250 because I do not run a billet crank in that car, and shift at 6000. That setup has worked VERY well for me, the car has taken a handful of firsts, and countless second place finishes. You want the 22% overdrive from an early car, not the 25 or 28%, you will find you are losing too many revs to be able to accelerate!?
The c/r gearset works great in a Stag case, the reason they are saying not suitable for Stag (and Sprint) is the input shaft length is different. The Stag case has the same bellhousing specs, it's just the inside of the gear case that is machined differently to accept the improved layshaft design, the roller bearings replacing thrust washers and 3 bearing on the countershaft instead of 2. Yeah, I know the new trick thing to do is to bore out the old layshafts for to accept the third countershaft bearing, that's all well and good, but the layshaft will still be banging on thrust washers instead of roller bearings!?
The 1X23 spline is a standard item, if you are running a Tilton or Quartermaster they will be able to supply your friction disks with that spline. I run stock TR4A-6 pressure plates, so I get my clutches made at California Clutch. Simply order whatever the diameter is (sorry, no notes handy), and tell him the 1X23 spline, whether or not you want springs (I never get springs, just the solid disc) and what friction material. I go 6 paddles, full metallic. Every couple seasons you put a new pressure plate on, it's a wear item. The setup will take a little sliding with no ill effects, just keep all clutch sliding to a minimum and you will be fine.
I always reuse good OEM syncros on my race boxes, if the donor box has OEM syncros I keep them matched up so they go back on the same gear. Obviously, they need to measure a good, sloppy 30 thou to be good. I am waiting to see of Rick Parent makes these new 21st century syncros for the big TR boxes, that could be a game changer!
Probably way more that you were asking for, but I was on a roll. Hope this helps!
Henry FryeTriumph Technology Consultants860.508.3118 - mobile
From: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:30 AM
To: Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com>
Cc: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry,
Do you get a new 2 gear pair with the close ratio set?? I thought you got a new input gear, 3rd gear pair, and 4th gear pair.?
That?s what I read in the Moss Europe catalog, not saying that is accurate though. I?ve always been curious as to what all the close ratio set includes and the different gear ratios it produces.?
Here is a screen shot from the Moss description.?


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2021, at 8:42 AM, Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:



?I am not sure what starting with late TR6 box gets you if you are going to use a close ratio gearset. The big difference is the improved second gear, TKC454 if memory serves, but you get a new second gear with the close ratio kit. You want to convert all the bushes on the mainshaft to steel, so that is easy and cheap.
I believe the ultimate TR race gearbox gets built off a Stag core with its layshaft bearings vs thrust washers. The close ratio kit drops right in, with the correct mainshaft you can run either an A-type or J-type OD. I ran my TR250 racer with an A-type for several seasons, it took an amazing amount of abuse and the OD has never needed a thing.?
Per JK, all clearances set at the bottom of the range so the gears have minimal wiggle room on the mainshaft.
I run Brad Penn 80w90 gear oil, after every race weekend I pull the gearbox drainplug and let a cup or so drain. I inspect and clean the magnetic drain plug, replace the plug, then remove the big OD drain plug to check the screen for debris. Reinstall letting as little fluid drain as possible. The top the oil back up, usually a bit more than half a quart. This keeps an eye on the condition of the internal bits, if you find anything scary address it now!
That's about it, but I must admit I put a T5 in the 250 this spring. Not sold on it lowering lap times, but it sure shifts fast! The TR3 still runs a Stag box, close ratio gears without OD.?
Henry FryeSent from phoneFrom: Bob Kramer <rkramer56 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 7:41:19 AM
To: Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com>
Cc: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild?Henry?
Thanks for the additional info. My memory never was that great!? ?Greg, I didn't realize that you were still running stock gears in the TR3.? The endurance TR6 has the close?ratio set.? It is easiest to start with a 73 or later?TR6 box.??
Bob Kramer

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 5:27 AM Henry Frye <henry at henryfrye.com> wrote:

Hey Bob,

I believe JK's magic box was with an OD, and gave you proper gearsplits between 2, 2OD, 3, 3OD and 4. I was not aware that he came up with anything that didn't use the OD, because that is what we use the close ratio gearset for!

Greg, are you still using stock TR gearsets, not the close ratio gearset? The close ratio is what everybody up here races with, Ken Gillanders used to say that one change is worth a couple seconds at any track. He was right. It eliminates the huge RPM drop between 3 and 4.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID600088

Henry Frye
Triumph Technology Consultants
860.508.3118 (c)

-----Original Message-----
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:24 PM
To: Greg Blake <gblake58tr3 at icloud.com>
Cc: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR6 gearbox rebuild

JK Jackson had that all figured out for a non overdrive box with the goal to get a better 2-3 spread.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Greg Blake via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve been inspecting the gears I took out of my race car. Second gear appears to have the slightest blue tinge to its color now. Is there a way to check if there is some damage caused by over heating?? Everything seems good from a tolerance perspective, just concerned about the slight blue color. 
> 
> Related note. Is there a combination of gears I can use out of different gearboxes to give a better split between 3, 3OD, and 4th?? Right now I just skip 3OD because it is very close to 4th. I have a ton of gearboxes laying around, so if there is a combination I should try I?d love to give it a shot. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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_______________________________________________
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From ofracer at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 08:17:14 2021
From: ofracer at gmail.com (Mike Harmuth)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
Message-ID: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the
spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the
smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem
revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has
successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast
on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars,
a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke
and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides")
I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than
once)?

thanks
mike h
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From trmarty at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 17 09:42:23 2021
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:42:23 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BL0PR02MB45146C71E8B0B033CA4CB65EBA9A9@BL0PR02MB4514.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker is the 1500 magic man. ?

Marty

________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Mike Harmuth via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 10:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:19:34 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:19:34 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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From jhasty at mhc-law.com  Wed Nov 17 15:24:21 2021
From: jhasty at mhc-law.com (John H. Hasty)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:24:21 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAO0FjVYF0_m9VLSL4RfJ1C0bBo5be+JHgBKdiHocaez9swXe9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45525730FCADC90645492669E19A9@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

?
Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.

And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.

Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.

Scott (B.)

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.

I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.

Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?

thanks
mike h
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To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:19:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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From vfracing at aol.com  Wed Nov 17 15:28:47 2021
From: vfracing at aol.com (vfracing at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:28:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
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 <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <1933981738.1164154.1637188127182@mail.yahoo.com>

FADING AWAY NOT TOO QUICKLY I HOPE!!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Barr, Scott <sbarr at mccarty-law.com>
Cc: Amici Triumphi <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2021 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine

Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?
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Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.? It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.? Cross-drilled, etc.? I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).? I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.? Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances.?
 
 ?
 
And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
 
 ?
 
Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.? Some day.? After I retire. ?Probably.
 
 ?
 
Scott (B.)
 
 ?
 
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf OfMike Harmuth via Fot
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
 
 ?
 
Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
 
 ?
 
I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
 
 ?
 
Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
 
 ?
 
thanks
 
mike h
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To: Mike Harmuth <ofracer at gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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Subject: Re: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
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From lunkercars at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 17 16:30:55 2021
From: lunkercars at yahoo.com (Greg Hilyer)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:30:55 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
In-Reply-To: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
References: <82AF93E8-2E8B-4322-AA16-9466EC9146B9@mhc-law.com>
Message-ID: <78051C64-183F-49C8-A0DC-081945257CF4@yahoo.com>

I thought the saying was 
?Old lawyers never retire - they just loose their appeal?.
I?ll show myself out now??
Greg ?Lunker? Hilyer
Albuquerque NM


> On Nov 17, 2021, at 3:24 PM, John H. Hasty via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ? Heck Scott, we old lawyers don?t retire, like old soldiers we just fade away!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2021, at 5:19 PM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Jerry Barker also did a nice 1500 crank for me, based on a stock unit.  It?s done with all the mods described in the Kas manual article on the topic.  Cross-drilled, etc.  I paired it some Carrillo rods and JE pistons for a nice solid bottom end that lasted well (but I still changed the rod bearings every 3 race weekends and rods and mains every 6 race weekends out of an abundance of caution).  I regularly spun it to at least 6,500.  Probably a bit more than that under Emergency War Power circumstances. 
>>  
>> And Jerry later did a nice head for me to go with that bottom end.
>>  
>> Both are sitting in my storage unit awaiting the day I decide to put the old Spit Racer back on the street.  Some day.  After I retire.  Probably.
>>  
>> Scott (B.)
>>  
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Mike Harmuth via Fot
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:17 AM
>> To: FoTTriumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] Billet crank and 1500 spitfire engine
>>  
>> Hi FOTers, I'm toying with the idea of building a 1500 race engine for the spit. I have the Moldex billet crank in my 1296 race engines and like the smoothness created by the "ghost main" style. I know 1500's have a problem revving (and staying together) so I was wondering if anyone has successfully built a 1500 racing engine with one.
>>  
>> I'm looking because a couple of groups run vintage races in the northeast on very hilly tracks and I'd like more torque. The way they classify cars, a 1300 and a 1500 both compete in the same class. If I can get more stroke and not give up too much top end (like a different diff ratio "provides") I'd be willing to give it a try.
>>  
>> Has anyone found a solution to keeping a 1500 together to 7K (more than once)?
>>  
>> thanks
>> mike h
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>> --===============2670542546735504675==
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty at mhc-law.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --===============2670542546735504675==--
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/lunkercars at yahoo.com
> 
> 
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From rkramer56 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 18 14:09:11 2021
From: rkramer56 at gmail.com (Bob Kramer)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 15:09:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
Message-ID: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to
the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already
rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run
TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer
springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit
the original configuration?

Bob Kramer
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From toodamnfunky at comcast.net  Thu Nov 18 14:46:08 2021
From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 14:46:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car
In-Reply-To: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABFvdWs2-Re_R8pc7ZXkUruNg1dbsf0Z9jhp2fjQuyMaQUc_OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007301d7dcc5$b24e6870$16eb3950$@comcast.net>

Bob,

I gave up on Triumph springs a long time ago. I adapted some adjustable spring perches for the rear and now use 

Eibach 2.5 x 8? x #550 springs in the rear. I use double adjustable QA-1 shocks front & rear.

There is a really great variety of springs if you can get away from ? Triumph ? springs.

The great thing is they are a fraction of the cost of factory springs and I can accurately corner weight the car which 

made a big difference in handling and my lap times. The car is really neutral. The fronts I have Swift brand 70MM ID x 6? @ #560.

3? frame clearance static. Yes, I have real coil overs on the front but I?ve been accused of worse.

This is TR4 but I don?t believe there is any difference in the suspension.

jim g

 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Kramer via Fot
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 2:09 PM
To: Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] rear springs for the TR6 endurance race car

 

In order to reduce the number of pit stops we've added a 16 gallon tank to the back of the endurance TR6 we campaign here in Texas. The car already rode low but now we have to do something about it. I used to run TriumphTune 550 LB rear springs in my TR4A and even then I wanted stiffer springs.  Does anyone know of a source for 700 or 800 lb springs that fit the original configuration?  




Bob Kramer

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From gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au  Tue Nov 23 03:48:10 2021
From: gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 21:48:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire mk1 8 port head
Message-ID: <1CE815A6-DD4E-4FCF-945A-932E3B2007BB@optusnet.com.au>

Does anyone know of a 8 port head for sale to fit the early motor 
Thanks 
Geoff Byrne

Sent from my iPad


From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 21:40:04 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 22:40:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 06:13:56 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 13:13:56 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAGAaPWh3D3=os9V8UOKW5JuFoVL2a-808wUSMfvkMVgTfgSqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
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From sjanzen at me.com  Thu Nov 25 06:54:56 2021
From: sjanzen at me.com (Scott Janzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:54:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
> 
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
> 
> Scott (B.)
> 
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>  
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
> 
> 
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From mckearn2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 08:33:12 2021
From: mckearn2 at gmail.com (McKearn McKearn)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 09:33:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?


On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>
>
>
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From jaboruch at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 25 10:33:36 2021
From: jaboruch at yahoo.com (Joe)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 12:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
References: <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <F12534DE-800C-4B00-9E35-A19C9C1F1790@yahoo.com>

On my TR3, which has a T5 trans, I cut the front of the tunnel and made a removable section.  The T5 weighs 95#, so it?s best done as a 2 person job or using a hoist.  Joe B.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Scott Janzen via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>> 
>> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.
>> 
>> Scott (B.)
>> 
>> Scott Barr
>> McCarty Law LLP
>> (920) 257-2233
>> From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
>> To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>>  
>> Hi group.
>>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>>                           Thanks.  P.J.
>> _______________________________________________
>> fot at autox.team.net
>> 
>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
> 
> http://www.fot-racing.com
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at yahoo.com
> 
> 
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From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Nov 25 11:28:11 2021
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 18:28:11 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or  necessary.
                         Thanks for the input.  P.J.
  Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com<mailto:sjanzen at me.com>> wrote:
Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

?
Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)

Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233
________________________________
From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal

Hi group.
  I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
                          Thanks.  P.J.
_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From bschirano1 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 25 19:09:08 2021
From: bschirano1 at gmail.com (Brian Schirano)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2021 21:09:08 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>

I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much

On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.  But that was 20-ish years ago  :-)
>
>
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
> *To:* Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
> *Cc:* Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.  Maybe I'll give
> it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or
> necessary.
>                          Thanks for the input.  P.J.
>   Bye the way,  Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
>
> Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel?
> If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable
> section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.
> It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i
> usually just pull the engine.
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and
> out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the
> engine.  Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.  With the small
> boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't
> last.  That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.
>
> IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so
> I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the
> cockpit.  It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it
> could be done with enough willing hands.
>
> Scott (B.)
>
> Scott Barr
> McCarty Law LLP
> (920) 257-2233
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via
> Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
> *To:* FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
>
> Hi group.
>   I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.  TR6 engine with
> Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the
> car or do I need to pull the engine?  I have never done it before without
> pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..
>                           Thanks.  P.J.
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bschirano1 at gmail.com
>
>
>

-- 
Brian Schirano
585-305-0349
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From igofaster at att.net  Fri Nov 26 08:26:45 2021
From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:26:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal
In-Reply-To: <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SJ0PR15MB4552878A071C4C595CE54A49E1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0542A4D-2BF2-47BD-ADC3-795680D092F2@me.com>
 <CAAGAaPU=hp0KOKjSF_jrfW_zQpJ96vfMSzL7sPxLrBANgc+W9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <SJ0PR15MB45520C286A1F80237FD6722FE1629@SJ0PR15MB4552.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAG9YvYOffFiKkPk2vwWteTF1ZURuqSCzYcwOHLDpWFdfOJ2_Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1721385523.5659096.1637940405336@mail.yahoo.com>

 when the whole front bonnet is so easy to remove, pull the whole unit.. I have spares from my T50 gearbox if anybody is interested.. not sure what is good but there's two of most everything.. message me if someone wants them..? Bobby Whitehead

    On Thursday, November 25, 2021, 08:09:53 PM CST, Brian Schirano via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  
 
 I've run that 275-6 cam in my GT6. liked it very much
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

If memory serves, it's Ted's TSI-275-6.? But that was 20-ish years ago? :-)



Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: McKearn McKearn <mckearn2 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2021 9:33:12 AM
To: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Barr, Scott <sbarr at McCarty-Law.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?I did cut the tunnel back to clear the back of the trani.? Maybe I'll give it a try from cockpit side before giving in to whats smart. Or? necessary.??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Thanks for the input.? P.J.? Bye the way,? Scott do you recall what cam you put in Col. Mustard?? ? ? ??
On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 7:54 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:

Is it longer, so the tail of the trans is under the transmission tunnel? If so, can?t do it. Or, did the tunnel get cut back - i made a removable section for my TR6 trans in my GT6.It?s such a pain to pull from inside, realign the clutch disc, etc, that i usually just pull the engine.Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2021, at 8:15 AM, Barr, Scott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:



?Before I put that trans in Col. Mustard, I had stock transmissions in and out of the car like popcorn, mostly, if not always, without pulling the engine.? Both 4-speeds and at least one with a D-type OD.? With the small boost in power over stock, and the heavy track day use, they just didn't last.? That's why I finally put the Toyota trans in.

IIRC, I put the Toyota trans in when I rebuilt the engine around 2001, so I don't have any experience taking the Toyota trans out through the cockpit.? It's a heavy sumbitch, compared to the stock trans, but I bet it could be done with enough willing hands.

Scott (B.)
Scott Barr
McCarty Law LLP
(920) 257-2233From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of McKearn McKearn via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 10:40:04 PM
To: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 Trani removal?Hi group.? I had what I suspect is a clutch failure in my GT6.? TR6 engine with Toyota T50 trans. My question is can I remove the trans, from inside the car or do I need to pull the engine?? I have never done it before without pulling the engine but I would like to this time..This is a street car ..? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thanks.? P.J._______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/sjanzen at me.com




_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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-- 
Brian Schirano585-305-0349_______________________________________________
fot at autox.team.net

http://www.fot-racing.com

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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