[Fot] squaring pads

Thu Jul 25 06:16:05 MDT 2019

I am probably not alone in having been at the track with a spare set of
pads in the parts box when I have run across these fitment problems on a
Saturday night getting ready for the next day.

Bob Kramer

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 12:24 AM Brad Eells via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Fun part is that Porterfield sends you the metric Datsun 240Z pad for the
> 16P caliper that you then have to machine to fit the pin locations.
>
> Went round and round with them...they weren’t listening...
>
> Brad Eells
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 9:19 PM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> I tried Porterfeild for the first time after I discovered problems with
> Carbotech and was further disappointed in what they sent me.  The friction
> pad surface was hanging "at least" 1/8" over the outer edge of the rotor.
> I could not believe it.  I sent them back.  I took photos and video to
> document my discoveries with all these pads and I would happily share
> them.  When I locate the Porterfield photo, I will share it.  Of course
> Porterfield would correct this if I send them details of my findings,
> but...  I cannot believe the total BS learning experience I have been faced
> with.  I simply cannot believe that these companies ship these inferior
> products.  Hawk has been the only company that has sent me the exact same
> product that fits every time.
>
> TOTAL BS.
>
> Dave H.
>
> On July 24, 2019 at 2:41 PM Phil Gott <vfracing at aol.com> wrote:
>
> I’ve been using Porterfield R4 with good results. Easy to modulate, work
> reasonably well when cold (safe pace lap) and last about 5-6 events with
> squaring every two races.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 24, 2019, at 4:22 PM, < timmmurphh at gmail.com> <
> timmmurphh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe that explains the high wear rate that we are seeing lately on the
> Carbotech CT2-XP10 brake pads we are using.  We used to get almost 4 or 5
> race weekends out of a set of pads.  Now it’s like one and half race
> weekends.  What is the wear rate for others that are using this pad?
>
>
>
> Maybe I will have to go back to the Hawk HB-169E.560 Blue/9012 compound
> brake pads that we were using.  Anyone have other suggestions?  We like the
> stopping power, fast warm up and feel of the Carbotech pads but the wear is
> getting a little pricey at about $200 a set.
>
>
>
> Tim and Ryan Murphy
>
> #317 TR4 BRG
>
>
>
> *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:11 PM
> *To:* Phil Gott <vfracing at aol.com>; Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>;
> ralph hansen <quikrx at yahoo.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] squaring pads
>
>
>
> The more clearance between the slot in the caliper and the pad backing
> plate the quicker this becomes a problem.   I've measured .010-.012" total
> clearance on an NOS street pad and as much as .070" on a set of Carbotech
> pads.  The edges of the Carbotech backing plates looked to have been, (were
> definitely), ground off on and belt sander or grinder from the factory,
> right down to the edge of the friction pad and they were out of square by
> .035".  The side of the pad was making contact with the caliper slot.  This
> immediately caused problems with the caliper pistons cocking severely.  The
> pistons even left a witness mark in the bore of the calipers.  Not good.
> The Carbotech pads had .070" wear diagonally across the friction surface in
> a couple of weekends of racing.  Unfortunately, Carbotech made many excuses
> and denials when I brought this to their attention.
>
> If the pad backing plate is held close in the slot, the piston cannot get
> cocked as severely under hard braking.  Squaring of pad surface may still
> be desirable at some point, but pay close attention between of the width of
> the backing plate and the caliper slot.
>
> I have found Hawk pads to be made with as close a clearance as factory
> pads and the same dimension on every order.  No variations.  The Hawk pads
> also have the same shape as factory pads, more like a pie cut.  Wider at
> the outer edge.  This helps compensates for rotor surface speed and reduces
> uneven wear.
>
> I do like the feel of the Carbotechs, but I cannot rely on their quality
> control.
>
> As you apply the brakes, the piston extends.  If the pad can move greatly
> within the caliper slot, the piston with take the side load, not the
> backing plate of the pad as it should.  If the backing plate is not square,
> the pad will also rotate a little.  Definitely not good.
>
> Beware,
>
> Dave H.
>
>
>
> On July 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Phil Gott via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> The pads wear unevenly both radially and a bit circumferentially due to
> different surface speeds and friction forces. As the pads wear unevenly
> they “cock” in the caliper and bind up. The more wear, the greater the
> binding.
>
> Using some sort of a device (surface grinder, drill press etc with a good
> dust collector and mask for the operator) to make the face of the friction
> material parallel to the backing plate solves this issue.
>
> Yes, this does change the surface of the pad presented to the rotor. I do
> not change rotors as they are in good shape. Any small to microscopic
> irregularities between the two quickly get dealt with during the first
> session out after squaring the pads. This would be the same as putting new
> pads on the car with the old rotors. Just treat the first few laps as if
> you are bedding in new brakes, which to some extent you are (except for
> temperature effects).
>
> Different from a street machine where rust and grit take their toll in the
> rotor surface.
>
> Phil Gott
>
> 114 TR4A
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 10:33 AM, ralph hansen via Fot < fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> not to rain on the parade but, are you turning the rotors each time to
> make sure they are square also? if not, you now have unmatched surfaces -
> in the old days with good metal rotors I could see a slight advantage,
> these days with the good pads we get, and soft rotors they wear together,
> you might actually get a very slight increase in surface contact due to the
> angles and dangles - and, as you machine the rotors you lose mass, the all
> important heat sink that makes brakes work....
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, 07:19:46 PM CDT, Mathieu W. Huovinen via Fot <
> fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Squaring up the pads? Please tell me more, I'm still learning. Thanks!
>
> -Marhieu
>
>
>
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