[Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

Sun Aug 11 10:45:45 MDT 2019

 Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!
Barry
    On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:  

 Yes exactly right.By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.So far I have not. Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing. I would be interested in giving it a try.Glenn  

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com> wrote:

 Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove anyway.In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above by the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.I share your pain...Glen

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Franco <brakey6666 at gmail.com>
To: fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com>
Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo at gmail.com>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transmissions.Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I have been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enough.The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case. When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its almost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.Glenn with 2 n's

On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com> wrote:

 That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.
Glen with 1 "n".

-----Original Message-----
From: John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Glenn Franco <brakey6666 at gmail.com>
Cc: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.

Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?  Thanks

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:

Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is sent to scrap.Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it out. Didn't end well however.I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense than the original design.Please adviseThanks in advanceGlennTR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored_______________________________________________
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