[Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?

Bill Bill at ponostyle.com
Fri Mar 9 12:54:27 MST 2018 

Peyote has genuine Girling calipers that look pretty much like the lead boat anchors, but they are cast aluminum. As I recall they came from some GP car and are rare as hen’s teeth, more than  a bit fragile, and bend enough to taper the bejesus out of the pads if you get enthusiastic, and have a very loose grip on any threads cut into them. I’d rather use Wilwoods, and I could probably get away with them most places. I have a set that came from my ridiculous NASCAR TR3, but nah. 

Cheater is a relative term in vintage racing. If you’re doing something egregious to push yourself to the front of the pack, then yeah, you’re a cheater. If you’re just tired of replacing the part that breaks every time you miss a shift or hit a hard bump, then maybe not so much. I’d rather the guy trying to outbrake me coming into the chicane have calipers that work than something “legal”. But that’s me. Peyote is an easy car to cheat with. Who knows what it originally had. I’ve resisted the temptation more or less, because it already works really well. I like to run tires that grip predictably—call me crazy—but I’m willing to skate around on Dunlops when the organizers insist. I’m just not gonna buy any new ones. My Dunlops will never wear out, they’ve aged into about the same durometer rating as rollerblade wheels. 

Honestly, at this point, how much does it matter? Too many of the real race cars that used to make vintage races so special are collection queens and will never be seriously driven again—certainly not among us hoi polloi at our ratty little local events. Authentic and legal race bits for the assortment of production cars turned into race cars that make up the usual grid often can’t be sourced, and if they can, they’re crap. Have fun, don’t break, don’t crash. 

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 6:16 AM, Bill Dentinger via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> Ahhhh,   That was "Tough Love",  Kas.
> 
> I was a vintage racer for over thirty years, and it was my experience that while the Vintage Sanctioning Bodies all seemed to have good intentions maintaining 'legal' race cars, they really did not have the horse power, nor where with-all to police such matters effectively.  At one point the VSCDA came up with an idea to get the individual Race Groups heavily involved in policing.  There were group Captains.  Things improved for a while.  Cheaters were exposed.  But eventually it went away.  Too much bickering.  The GAIN did not exceed the PAIN.  No one wanted to be Captain.  The idea went away.
> 
> Bill Dentinger
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kas Kastner <kaskastner at gmail.com>
> To: BillDentin at aol.com <billdentin at aol.com>
> Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo at gmail.com>; fot at autox. team. net <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 9:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
> 
> In the 50's to early 70's days of the California Sports Car Club, if you were caught, and many were, with parts or items that were not allowed you were given a chance to defend yourself at the Contest Board meeting (once a month) and if they found proof you were guilty as charged, you lost your license for a YEAR. That's it, you did not race for a year in any class. 
> 
> I ran the Rules Enforcement group and was on the Contest Board which consisted of current drivers in several classes. It was found most of the cheating took place from about 6th  place back to about 10th place. Nothing much before that position or after the 10th place. Some entrants never understood that other drivers REALLY were FAST and thus they thought the leaders were the cheaters and that just was not true at all. Interesting. No one wanted to have the name "cheater" attached to their name. Several cars were checked each race by lottery for cubic capacity, weight, gears ratios, body panels and other major parts. It was pretty pure racing.
> 
> Never be beaten by equipment.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Bill Dentinger via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> Good for SVRA. If I were the Vintage Grand Poo Pah, I would take a note of tire cheaters on the False Grid, and then bring em in with a Meat Ball Flag after one lap in the Feature Race. 
> 
> Bill Dentinger
> 
> PS Three sets of tires needed.  One for qualifying...one for the feature race...and a special set for Tech. That latter set can be experienced, but must have a minimum tread depth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:08 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
> The only item that SVRA regularly checks is tires from my experience.  And they do that at each gridding.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ricco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> We have not had issues with stock calipers.  We run Hawk or Carbotech brake pads and good brake fluid.  We do bleed the brakes regularly and all seems to be working good.
> 
> It would be nice to get the benefit of less unsprung weight on the front suspension by switching to aluminum.  However, I do not know of any vintage organization that really allows it by their rules.  We all know that that do not get enforced on a regular basis.  However, I do think SVRA has made a great effort to get people to use a stock type caliper at their events. 
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
> I’m still using the original brakes the car came with.
> I’ve put in some nice brake pads and that is working well for me.
>  
> Cheers
> Chris
>  
> Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> Im Auftrag von DAVE HOGYE via Fot
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. März 2018 17:28
> An: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com <mailto:sjanzen at me.com>>
> Cc: Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
> Betreff: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>  
> Good call, Scott.  The Wilwood calipers are aluminum, but otherwise look very similar to the the P or PB calipers.
>  
> DH
> On March 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com <mailto:sjanzen at me.com>> wrote:
> 
> good to check your club rules first though, if enforced.  VRG says you need to use the original equipment, and SVRA says 
> Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material, design and number of pistons as the original component. There must be no increase in the frictional surface of the pads or shoes. 
>  
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:09 AM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>  
> The quality of the new calipers is somewhat suspect, but seem to work as needed.
> The first pair that I bought from BPNW had a yellow (anodized ?) finish with numbers in the castings.  The second pair from BPNW 4 years later have a silver finish and no numbers in the casting which made me wonder about the quality.  
> My first set has been on my car from 2013.  13 race weekends a total of 3,800 miles.
> Wilwood makes beautiful replacements now.  They are anodized black.  I far as I can tell, they will fit our Triumphs, but haven't made a complete comparison.  Of course the price is higher, but more equivalent to the importance of good brakes. 
> 
> DH
> 
> On March 8, 2018 at 2:54 AM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have seen these available for a while now, but fear they are made 
> somewhere we don't want to know from materials I don't want to think 
> about. I'm not brave enough to put one of these on a street car, let 
> alone my race car.
> 
> Has anybody tried these calipers yet? Any feedback???
> 
> As long as good cores are available for 16P's, I'm rebuilding OEM 
> calipers.
> 
> Henry
> 
> On 2018-03-07 23:24, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
> 
> 
> BTW, the PB calipers are available new for around $100 each new.
> That's pretty inexpensive for such an important part.  I purchased
> another set when I thought I might be having a problem, but ended up
> just changing pads.  I'm glad to have a new pair standing by.  Then I
> can rebuild at my leisure.
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