[Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update

Thu Jul 12 07:56:26 MDT 2018

I was wondering about exactly this.  The 6 rotor is 10.5” and the 3 rotor is 11”

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John H. Hasty
Attorney at Law
Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.
301 S. York St.,
P.O. Box 488
Gastonia, NC 28053
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From: Ashley Page [mailto:apage at prosystembrakes.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:35 PM
To: John H. Hasty <jhasty at mhc-law.com>
Cc: timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update

As far as braking effect it’s simple math. Assuming the master cylinder, pad compound and rotors  are not changed then the calipers with the largest dia pistons will, for a given pedal effort, generate more clamping force. If you care to to go to extremes then you would also factor in the distance from the axle center to the CG of the pad friction which is the “friction radius” - but that’s picking the fly poop out of the pepper for what you are doing.
Other considerations:

Assuming the TR6 caliper will bolt up to the TR3 knuckle, you would need to make sure the rotor path through the caliper would accept the bigger rotor- likely would but should be checked. At some point a rotor with larger dia than the caliper is designed for will touch the rotor path at the ends of the caliper (to small of rotor will touch in the path next to the pad opening). In both those extremes the pads typically won’t fit either.

Another issue to check is rotor thickness. If the TR3 rotor is thinner then make sure as the pads wear that a caliper piston can’t come out of the caliper.

Also check the pad to make sure it’s annulus is not larger than the TR3 rotor. You don’t want overhang or under hang of friction material. Also you want the friction to cover the rotor with very little unused swept area of rotor ID or OD. To much unused iron can be a problem also.

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On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:23 PM -0400, "John H. Hasty" <jhasty at mhc-law.com<mailto:jhasty at mhc-law.com>> wrote:
What is the effect of using TR6 calipers designed for use on 10.75 rotors on TR3 11” rotors ?
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Ashley Page via Fot <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
As Glenn pointed out ID to OD taper happens with some pads.
Can also be a sign of loose wheel bearings.

But probably as he describes due to higher rubbing speed on OD.

You can easily taper cut the pads with a 4” diamond masonry blade from just about any hardware or Lowe’s. You can do it with any number of ways even a hacksaw but anything but diamond will wear quickly
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On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM -0400, "timmmurphh--- via Fot" <fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:

From: timmmurphh at gmail.com<mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com> <timmmurphh at gmail.com<mailto:timmmurphh at gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:36 AM
To: 'DAVE HOGYE' <dlhogye at comcast.net<mailto:dlhogye at comcast.net>>
Subject: RE: [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update

Thanks for this report.  We have had some issues with the Carbotech pads on our TR4 at Blackhawk and the Kcup.  We use the CT2-XP10 compound.  I will check our pad to caliper slot clearance.  Does anyone know offhand of the slot on the 16P calipers on our TR4 is the same as the TR3 at 3.095”?

Tim Murphy
#317 TR4

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of DAVE HOGYE via Fot
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 3:22 PM
To: Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>>
Subject: [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update

Hello Friends,

I have been finding out quite a bit about the unusual and developing front brake pad, rotor and caliper issues that I have discovered on my TR3.

What I found was that the Carbotech CT-57 pads were causing the problem.

The supporting or backing plates of the pads had been ground down at Carbotech, far under the normal plate width that I measured in 4 other production pads that I have on hand.  Besides that, they were not ground down squarely.

This allowed the piston to take tremendous side load under braking causing the uneven and diagonal wear pattern in the pads.  This also caused the rotor to contact the caliper as the pads took on heavy uneven wear.

The slot in the TR6 caliper is 3.095" and the four non-Carbotech pads sets have a plate width of no less than 3.082".  The Carbotech plates have an out of square measurement of 3.030-3.050".  That's as much as .065" clearance in the caliper slot.

The plates have too much clearance.  I found that a maximum of .010" backing plate to caliper slot clearance is more normal.  One set of pads have only .005" clearance.

Furthermore, the corners of the Carbotech plates and pads were ground down far enough that the lower end of the pads hardly made contact with the caliper slot allowing more stress on the caliper piston.

I have been going back and forth with Carbotech on this matter and I will be sending back the badly worn set along with a brand set that have the same production issues.  I bought the two sets at the same time last August.

What I found is that any backing plates that show evidence of sanding or grinding marks should be measured for proper clearance, but that really, there should be no sanding or grinding marks...ever.

All of the other pads I have show no evidence of sanding or grinding marks.  The previously shaped friction pads are cleanly attached to the backing plates and the backing plate is revealed around the friction material.  Only the backing plate makes contact with the caliper slot.

It looks like I have to find another race pad supplier.

Thoughts?

Dave H.

831-234-4928

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