[Fot] Re TR4 camshafts

Thu Oct 26 15:21:53 MDT 2017

The definition of cam lobe center line *is* the point of maximum lift.  

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:19 PM, riverside--- via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> to further complicate,   the lobe center may not be at the
> point of maximum lift.
>
> art de armond
>
> *From:* patrickmannion1--- via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:25 PM
> *To:* duncan.charlton54 at gmail.com
> *Cc:* fot at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
>
> Hi Duncan, John and all,
> I sent the proper information to Newmans in June and again this week but
> haven't had any response.I was wrong when I posted the lift figure, on
> Monday. When I didn't get a response from Newman in June with accurate
> timing events I through my notes in a box and misread them the other night,
> the lift was actually .015" less than specified in lift at cam which would
> be .022" less lift at the valve.
> The total lift, rise figure at TDC, and the figure at which max rise
> should occur did not match what their website specified. The two sentence
> response from them was like a politician saying "trust me", it only stated
>
> "The best way to set the camshaft is that you have maximum valve lift on the
> inlet 110° after top dead centre" with no other information to second verify events
>
> In the past when we've ever had a figure on a timing card that didn't
> match our cam grinder would get back and be able to say, check timing
> events at this lift and verify by checking lobe centers and he would give
> you ways to verify that all was correct. His cams always worked great.
> I have three different types of cams, I'm going to plot and graph them
> later in the week but will just use a camshaft from now on from a source I
> trust.
> thanks for you responses
> Pat Mannion, Santa Cruz
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Duncan Charlton <duncan.charlton54 at gmail.com>
> To: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc: patrickmannion1 at netzero.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:50:56 -0500
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> You didn’t say whether you determined how many degrees of advance/retard
> you’re putting in by setting max lift at 110˚ ATDC.  Confirming that figure
> ought to give you some confidence that what they’re telling you is in the
> ballpark.  2 to 4 degrees advance seems appropriate for a street engine.
>
> Since you've been in the business for a while (I’ve heard your name in
> Morgan circles for many years) I assume you already have the tools and
> knowledge to do this, so I won’t go into a long-winded description of the
> process, but for those reading this who haven’t done this before:  put a
> degree wheel on the crank, zero it at true TDC and measure lift at the cam
> or at the valve using a dial indicator, starting a few degrees before max
> lift and ending a few degrees after max lift to be sure you’ve found mean
> maximum lift.  Do this for both intake and exhaust and calculate the
> midpoint between those two mean maximum lift points.  That gives you the
> cam's “zero” point.  Decide whether to advance or retard a few degrees from
> zero.  Advancing moves torque lower down on the rpm scale (but also
> decreases intake valve to piston clearance).  I find I have to plot this on
> paper so I can make sense of it and to make sure I don’t move the the wrong
> direction in altering the valve timing.
>
> Newman overstated lift by 34%.  Wow.
>
> Duncan
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2017, at 2:48 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Follow the instructions for setting the cam and you will be fine.  An
> adjustable cam sprocket will make the job easier.
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:54 AM, riverside--- via Fot <fot at autox.team.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Yikes!   I  have always had great success with Dema's cams.
>> I hope his shop survived the fires.
>>
>> art de armond
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: patrickmannion1--- via Fot
>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:11 PM
>> To: fot at autox.team.net
>> Subject: [Fot] Re TR4 camshafts
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I have always nearly always built Triumph TR4 engines with cams from Dema
>> Elgin Superlobes in Santa Rosa. Occasionally I had installed other cams
>> supplied by customers that had a valid timing card supplied. I decided with
>> the English pound being low vs the Dollar I would try the PH1 Cam from
>> Newman Cams in England. I had heard good things about their PH1 cam as
>> being a great street cam.
>>
>> When installing the cam. Information on there website stated peak cam
>> lift was .295" (it is only .220") resulting in a lift at the valve being
>> .120" less than stated. Starting off with" incorrect lift figure all valve
>> event figures on the website are wrong. After several emails I got a two
>> sentence email saying ,set Intake for max lift at 110 degrees ATDC and the
>> cam will work,
>>
>> After doing lots of engine modifications I would like a more scientific
>> answer than the cam will work. Has anyone used this cam or a Newman cam
>> before, or found that the information supplied by Newman was incorrect. I
>> hate to eat the cost of the camshafts I bought or incur the cost of sending
>> them back to England, but I would have no confidence in using a camshaft
>> without having a correct timing card for the camshaft. -
>> thanks
>> Pat Mannion
>> Santa Cruz California
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