[Fot] TR3/4 Rear Main Seal

Mon Jan 23 12:15:13 MST 2017

Hi Neil.  Since I retired from racing, I have built a couple of Triumph engines, and am now working on an MGB engine.  On the first Triumph engine I did, I used used the stock Triumph head gasket, with Gaskacinch sealant, which I had used in the race car for 20 years or so.  Gaskacinca is an old regional gasket cement found in the Midwest USA.  I had trouble getting it to seal, and ended up with a combustion leak.  My machine shop guy recommended Cometic for the head gasket, and Hylomar sealant.  So I tried that combination, and it worked great.
I'm getting ready to use a Cometic head gasket on the MGB I am rebuilding, and thought I would use Hylomar sealant.  Are you familiar with Cometic head gaskets?  If so, what sealant would you recommend?  I have some Hylomar left over from previous builds, but if you have something that is better, I'd like to use that.  Do you ship to the US?  If so, how would I go about ordering your Wellseal product?
Thanks for your help.
Jack Wheeler

      From: Neil Revington <neil at revingtontr.com>
 To: Paul Ricco <paulricco at att.net>; Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Tony Drews <tony at tonydrews.com>; Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>; "fot at autox.team.net" <fot at autox.team.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 12:34 PM
 Subject: RE: [Fot] TR3/4 Rear Main Seal

 <!--#yiv7859448161 _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:Wingdings;panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:Mistral;panose-1:3 9 7 2 3 4 7 2 4 3;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:"Arial Narrow";panose-1:2 11 6 6 2 2 2 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {font-family:"Helvetica Neue";}#yiv7859448161 #yiv7859448161 p.yiv7859448161MsoNormal, #yiv7859448161 li.yiv7859448161MsoNormal, #yiv7859448161 div.yiv7859448161MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv7859448161 a:link, #yiv7859448161 span.yiv7859448161MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7859448161 a:visited, #yiv7859448161 span.yiv7859448161MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7859448161 span.yiv7859448161EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv7859448161 .yiv7859448161MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7859448161 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv7859448161 div.yiv7859448161WordSection1 {}-->Hi Paul, Thanks for copying me in on this. My only comment would be that Hylamar is not ideal as it can ‘ball off’ and when that happens rubbery bits of goo end up in oil ways. You should use the original product Wellseal  http://www.revingtontr.com/product/600569a/name/wellseal-jointing-compound-100ml or the superior sealant Heldite http://www.revingtontr.com/product/tdc5001-125/name/heldite-125ml-tin-with-applicator or of course any other similar product. Anything by silicone sealant.    Cheers    Neil Revington
Revington TR Ltd 
Thorngrove Barns,
Middlezoy, 
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
( +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
-neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com Every part you need for your TR, new or second hand, standard or improved. Connect with Revington TR:         Suppliers of Standard and uprated parts to TR enthusiasts    From: Paul Ricco [mailto:paulricco at att.net]
Sent: 21 January 2017 18:29
To: Jack Wheeler <jwheeler1947 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Tony Drews <tony at tonydrews.com>; Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Rear Main Seal    We have some experience with rear main seal issues on our TR4 race motor.  When we purchased our car, all of the cranks that were included had already been machined and the scroll removed.  We have been able seal the engines successfully with careful preparation using these cranks and we have been happy with the results.  Here is what we learned:    1.  The Revington Seal Kit does work very well when it is installed properly.  It is good product.      2.  There are a lot of cranks floating around that had the scroll removed, but they were not machined to the correct size for the seal kit.  We have found some that have been machined too small and one that was too large.  Too large was just as big a problem, because the seal could not close all the way around the crank causing a leak with the oil pressures that we run.    3.  The aluminum seal housings are often not installed and sealed correctly.  The problem is further compounded by the felt seal not being completely sealed when the rear main bearing cap is installed.  We use 1 inch pieces of the felt soaked in Permatex Aviation Sealer and pack them in tight.  It is messy,  but seams to work well.    4.  Measure your crank seal surface very carefully.  If it is too small or too large, the seal will not work correctly.  Both issues can be corrected.  Have a good machine shop read the instructions and help you get the crank prepped per the instructions that come with the seal kit.    5.  Make sure that the machine shop leaves the correct radius corner when they machine the scroll off.    6.  Follow the instructions that Revington includes in his kit to the letter, and the seal will work great in racing applications.    7.  I will only use replacement seals for our housings that are purchased directly from Revington TR.  I have been told that another vendor tried to have some produced and they may not be the correct size and specification for the Revington housing.  Going to Revington TR for the replacements solves that issue.    8.  Choose the sealant that you use for the housing very carefully.  We have had very good success with Hylomar.  There may be other good choices but that has worked for us.    Hope some of this helps and best of luck getting the motor sealed up.    Paul Ricco TR4 Blue #4    

Sent from my iPad 
On Jan 21, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Jack Wheeler via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote: 
Before the Viton seal became available, I used a couple of different approaches to keeping the crankcase sealed at 7,000 RPM's, both involved machining off the scrolling from the rear of the crankshaft.  The first was to use a rope seal, like the E-Type Jaguar.  I took the dimension off the Jag crank, then machined the Triumph crank to the same OD.  I used the stock Triumph aluminum seal to hold the rope seal in place. 

 My next attempt was a big block Chevy, 2 part neoprene seal.  Again, I machined the Triumph crank surface where the seal rides to the same OD as the Big Block Chevy Crank.  Then I machined a two part aluminum retainer, similar to the stock Triumph rear seal, but with the inside machined to hold the Chevy seal in place.  I think there was a kit available at one time, were you could buy the seal, and the adapter that holds it in place (Moss (?) or someone like that had made up the same aluminum adapter that I had, and were selling it as a kit).  Anyway, this worked pretty well as long as you got the Chevy seal well centered around the crankshaft. 

 You might go to a junk yard (or speed shop) and find out what the dimension of the big block Chevy crank is, at the point where the rear seal rides against the crank.  If your cranks can be machined to this diameter, then see if you can find one of the old Moss conversion kits.  When I sold my race car to Don Marshall (#11 EP TR-4A - Runoffs winner 1990), there were 2 or 3 of these seal adapters that went with it.  If you can track it down, see if one of these seal adapters is available (out of an engine), and could be used as a sample to have one machined.  Or, you could do like I did.  Buy the big block Chevy seal, and use it as a template, along with a stock Triumph rear seal, to figure the dimensions needed to machine a two part adapter.  This may seem like a lot of work, but if your cranks are good, it might be cheaper than getting a new crank, especially if you have good machining capability available. 

 Good luck, and let me know what you decide. 

 Jack

    From: Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
To: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>;fot at autox.team.net 
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Rear Main Seal 
I did get the message but don't have any alternate suggestions for 
rear seal if the crank is machined for the earlier seal kits.

- Tony Drews

At 06:57 PM 1/20/2017, Joe Boruch via Fot wrote:
>Not sure if this went thru before, since I did not receive it in my 
>inbox and did not receive any replies.  Sorry for the duplication, 
>if it went out previously.
>
>The recent discussion of the valve cover gasket reminded me to ask 
>about TR3/4 rear main seals.  I know that the new improved Viton 
>seals are make to fit cranks that the scroll surface has not been 
>machined.  All my cranks have been machined to fit the earlier seal 
>kits.  Is there an upgraded seal kit to fit machined cranks or would 
>there even be any advantage to using the new seal?  Joe(B)
>
>
>fot at autox.team.net
>
>http://www.fot-racing.com
>
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