[Fot] FW: Racing rod design

rkramer3 at austin.rr.com rkramer3 at austin.rr.com
Thu Jul 23 07:15:54 MDT 2015 

Chris,

No worries. Others have been running the Pauters very hard with good results. I suspect that both the H-Beam and I-Beam designs, as well as the Pauter "cross-beam (an inside-out H beam)" are by design more than strong enough for our engines but like any product we buy there are going to be some random quality control problems, and rod bolt breakage. That said, I would be scared of putting those rods that are made in China in my engines.

This has been a healthy discussion and I have learned something. I got my first set of Carillo's with the engine that came in the car Marcel's now has. When I bought that hulk for restoration it had a mixed set of Carillos inside with one rod replaced with a slightly different, newer Carillo. I concluded that the set would be unreliable and I replaced them with new ones. They might be fine with new, rod bolts.

Bob Kramer
rkramer3 at austin.rr.com

---- MadMarx <tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> I'm sorry to worry you, that wasn't my intention.
> But maths doesn't lie. Must be a reason why high volume car producer make all rods of the same pattern. It would be a lot cheaper to make them a square type or Carrillo H-beam typ then the I-beam version you find in all cars. I-beam is the best pattern to handle the forces in an piston engine.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von rkramer3 at austin.rr.com
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Juli 2015 00:32
> An: Marcel Van Mulders
> Cc: fot at autox.team.net
> Betreff: Re: [Fot] FW: Racing rod design
> 
> Marcel.
> 
> I had a spectacular blow up at Mosport one year, in front of Kas and the whole FOT gang. Those were the last stock rods I ever used. LAter I went to the Moldex and other than a crack in a journal on a crank on a Moldex after running it too hard and hitting 8 grand a  few times, I have avoided breakage. I prefer it that way and now I am concerned about those Pauters I bought. Thanks Chris!
> 
> Bob Kramer
> rkramer3 at austin.rr.com
> 
> ---- Marcel Van Mulders <van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be> wrote: 
> >  Bob,
> > That makes things clear.
> > I still use the Carrillo's that I bought when I startet racing my TR3A 
> > in 2002. About everything broke once or more, except those Carrillo's. 
> > The original Triumph conrods can fail, but probably Carrillo and also 
> > Pauter rods have an easy time in our racecars?
> > Marcel
> > 
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com [mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com]
> > Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 22:32
> > Aan: Marcel Van Mulders; 'MadMarx'
> > CC: fot at autox.team.net
> > Onderwerp: Re: FW: [Fot] Racing rod design
> > 
> > Marcel,
> > 
> > Those are Carillo's on a TR spec Moldex crank spinning Wieseco pistons.  
> > 
> > I did buy some Pauters but they are in another engine and haven't been 
> > tested as hard as the Carillos. I still have a TR4 race car that my 
> > son drives and the Pauters are in that engine. It has a camshaft of 
> > unknown origin that builds power between 2500- 5500.
> > 
> > Bob Kramer
> > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com
> > 
> > ---- Marcel Van Mulders <van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be> wrote: 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > > Van: Marcel Van Mulders [mailto:van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be]
> > > Verzonden: woensdag 22 juli 2015 19:29
> > > Aan: 'MadMarx'
> > > Onderwerp: RE: [Fot] Racing rod design
> > > 
> > > Hi Chris and Bob,
> > > As you know, I bought Bob's TR4A and I did have a look at the rods : 
> > > Pauter may call these rods X-beam but they actually are H-beam rods, 
> > > much the same design as the H-beam rods of Carrillo. (b.t.w.
> > > Carrillo's I beam rods are less expensive than their H-beam one's).
> > > Marcel
> > > 
> > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > > Van: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens MadMarx
> > > Verzonden: dinsdag 21 juli 2015 21:39
> > > Aan: 'FOT'
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design
> > > 
> > > Hi Bob,
> > > 
> > > from engineer basis x-beam are the worst you can get. I'll never get 
> > > a clue how someone could imagine this design.
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com [mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com]
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2015 21:31
> > > An: 'FOT'; MadMarx
> > > Betreff: Re: [Fot] Racing rod design
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Chris,http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBO
> > > XD
> > > ELIM68
> > > 586&replyAll=on&referrer=msg#
> > > 
> > > Look at Pauter Rods. they advertise their design as an x-beam. I 
> > > can't say that they are any better based on long term use but a lot 
> > > of us switched over due to the increase cost of Carillo's over time.
> > > 
> > > http://pauter.com/parts/rods/
> > > 
> > > It just occured to me that you are probably running a custom crank, 
> > > Chevy rods with custom pistons to match. They may make comparable 
> > > models to fit that too since I believe that setup was designed 
> > > around the
> > rods.
> > > 
> > > http://webmail.roadrunner.com/do/mail/message/reply?msgId=INBOXDELIM
> > > 68
> > > 586&re
> > > plyAll=on&referrer=msg#
> > > Bob Kramer
> > > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com
> > > 
> > > ---- MadMarx <tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: 
> > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > After my engine blow at the last race and a rod in two pieces I
> > > investigated about rod design.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > In US forums I found an interesting opinion:
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > H-beam rods are for low rev high torque engine (turbo, compressor)
> > > > 
> > > > I-beam are for medium torque engines with high revs
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > As engineer I agree with this statement. On high revs the rod 
> > > > shaft gets
> > > bended back and forth by the inertia caused by the rotation.
> > > > 
> > > > I could imagine that the sharp sides of the H-beam rod will create 
> > > > a crack
> > > after a while because the stiffness for bending along the rotation 
> > > axis smaller than with an I-beam rod.
> > > > 
> > > > That means to me that the fatigue resistance is smaller on an 
> > > > H-beam rod
> > > at high revs.
> > > > 
> > > > With high revs on a long stroke engine I mean 6000+.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > The manufacturer of the broken H-beam rod was Scat.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > I think next time I order an I-beam rod from Scat.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > What do you think?
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > 
> > > > Chris
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > fot at autox.team.net
> > > 
> > > http://www.fot-racing.com
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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