[Fot] Small Bore Racers

Mon Jul 14 18:32:43 MDT 2014

I rarely weigh in, but this is one of those times I feel the need to.
Warning, this will be lengthy.

First, let's deal with SCCA track racing. Simply put, our cars aren't that
competitive anymore. They can be pretty good, but the limits of the
technology they are based on, well, has limits. A Spitfire can be fast, but
as said before, how durable is the engine? Now throw in the Miata. Those
aren't any cheaper. A good front running Miata will cost you about 40-48k
to build plus the cost of the donor car. If you want an NA or NB donor,
those are drying up fast for cheap ones. They've already been snapped up
for SM, all the SCCA classes, etc. I happen to know the owner and one of
the mechanics at one of the best MX-5/Miata shops in the nation, and when
they say that, I tend to believe it. Also, most of those race prepped
engines get about half a season from them, then you're in for another or a
rebuild, either way minimum buy in is another 7-15k.

As to the SCCA being concerned with making money and not being a club
anymore, well, reality check: on the East coast it was that way in the late
50's already. Also, the SCCA has dwindling numbers overall due to
ineptitude and also the expense, thus the sprouting up of NASA, Chump,
LeMons, et al. But that's not the issue for this list, it's why are there
fewer of our cars outside of vintage racing? Some of our cars are too
valuable to risk in SCCA racing, either emotionally or financially. A big
part is the rules allowances for our cars haven't been updated in years.
This leads me to another SCCA issue: Autocross.

As you are aware, GP is going away in autocross. I say good. There are many
reasons for this. The top running cars can be competitive in other classes.
Maybe not winners, but definitely will get on stage. Also, as fewer and
fewer of cars of our vintage were campaigned, there weren't enough results
and data to recalculate PAX, as well as address the rules. A great example
is the Spitfire 1500. It would be required to run with a single ZS carb or
take a weight hit. Yet in FSP I can run whatever carbs I want, and I have
no minimum weight. So why go to the trouble of building a GP car when I can
do FSP so much easier?

Furthermore, GP did nothing to help itself over the last few years. 2011
having the class winners break parc ferme rules and cheat put the
crosshairs squarely on the class from the SEB. Then the entire boycott in
protest this past year was the nail in the coffin. Per a good friend who is
on the SEB "when you get mad and throw a 3rd grade temper tantrum and don't
show up, resulting in sparse attendance for the class, you're asking for
the axe. Especially when if they had shown up, we could have used the delta
in the performance data to address changing the class rules. Good thinking
on their part." Now, for some of the interesting parts.

I run a 1978 Spitfire 1500 in FSP in my club. I won the class last year.
One thing I found was that my entry and apex speeds were higher than a
national caliber 99 MX-5/driver combo. I lost ALL my time from the exit to
the entry of the next turn, and the next, etc. One thing bandied about has
been to give GP cars big weight reductions and allow them to run in DP. My
friend on the SEB asked me what kind of weight and induction allowances
they should make. I advised on setting very low weight limits for a 1500
and allowing any carbs the owner wanted. The rest of the rules allow for us
to build a suspension that is legal and competitive imo. Also, the issue of
wheel and tire size arose.

Is the lack of our cars being in more mainstream racing due to the above,
or due to lack of interest as stated elsewhere in this thread? I doubt
there is a lack of interest. I can't go anywhere in my Spitfire without
someone saying they had one, had a friend or relative with one, or they had
a Fiat, or MG, or who knows what other 2 seat Euro car. I think that many
people not only don't know how to get involved with racing, but how to even
find one of our cars for sale that is race ready. Unless you're in the
racing community, there is no way to really get that info. I think outreach
might be a good idea.

These are my observations. But what do I know? I'm just a 42 year old guy
who had worked on and been around these cars his entire life, as well as
various facets of racing. Oddly enough, I seem to be asked regularly about
where to get these cars and how to get started racing them. Go figure.

Mike

On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Edward Dunn <edunn at qualityfueltrailers.com>
wrote:

> As has already been said, folks tend to like cars that were cool when they
> were at that coming of age time, teen years. At 56, I'm considered a fairly
> young MG TD owner. In my case, that sweet spot for cars is right around
> 1970.
> How many younger folks do you see interested in Model A's, Packards, etc.
> Not
> many.
>
> I think the future for racing any MG, Triumph, Morgan, etc. is in vintage.
> Even then, I see the huge Huffaker transporters (and similar) and their
> very
> expensive to keep MGB, corvette's, etc,. Far out of the league of the
> typical
> MG/Triumph vintage racer. Considering what is needed to run competitively
> in
> SCCA, I just don't think it's a viable proposition for our vintage cars.
>
> Owning several vintage British cars, including a handful of race cars,
> without
> a doubt a Miata or similar is better for most racers. We just happen to dig
> the vintage scene, and have no interest in SCCA type racing.
>
> I would expect to see continued decrease of vintage British cars involved
> in
> SCCA racing. Encourage those folks to come vintage race, where it could be
> argued that's where they really belong, as none are newer than 1980.
>
> We'll pass along a fine vintage sports car to each of our kids, and
> grandkids.
> I'll provide any of them with a car & support to go vintage racing.  I
> think
> that's the way to keep it going forward, along with being open and
> friendly to
> all who show an interest at the track, in our neighborhood, etc.
>
> Last little point; take one of your vintage race cars to local car shows.
> You'll stand among the sea of 55-57 Chevy's, Corvette's & Porsche's. Invite
> those interested to actually touch and sit in your car. Fire it up maybe.
> Give
> out business cards, and have them call you if they have any interest in
> getting involved. You'll create quite a stir, compared to the bozos with
> the
> "Don't Touch" signs all over their cars.
>
> Ed Dunn
>
> West Coast Vintage Racing
> Penngrove CA 94951
>
> 760-492-3814
> www.vintageracing.us
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of marty
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 6:14 AM
> To: FOT
> Subject: [Fot] Small Bore Racers
>
> Just thinkinb&  back in the 90b s in my neck of the woods  there use to be
> full grids of Sprites and Midgets racing.  I cannot remember the last time
> I
> saw a Bugeye on track. Seemed like they were coming out of the woodwork. I
> hardly ever see them any more. At Mid-Ohio last weekend there were two
> midgets, that was it.  Where the heck did they all disappear to?
>
>
> Marty
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/edunn@qualityfueltrailers.com
> _______________________________________________
> fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mikeragtopeditor@gmail.com