[Fot] TR4 axle shafts

Tue Jan 21 16:39:31 MST 2014

I imagine that wider, modern, sticky tires might be part of the problem with axle issues. If they allow improved stiction, axle upgrades should be allowed too. What's the matter with these people. They might need their heads examined for....stiction? 

Dave 

----- Original Message -----
From: "MadMarx" <tr4racing at googlemail.com> 
To: fot at autox.team.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:24:24 PM 
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 axle shafts 

FIA people are a really hard headed bunch of folks. 

-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- 
Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Januar 2014 00:20 
An: 'fubog1'; tr4racing at googlemail.com; fot at autox.team.net 
Betreff: RE: [Fot] TR4 axle shafts 

<< one of the main objectives of the rules makers and sanctioning bodies is 
to allow us to race safely >> 

Evidently, the German sanctioning bodies are not so open minded as that. 
Chris pointed out that their position is that modifying the car so that the 
wheel will not fly off, resulting in an upside down excursion into the 
gravel trap, will allow the driver to go faster (perhaps by installing 
stickier tires or using more curb) and gain an advantage over a driver whose 
car is maintained in the original less safe condition. 

It appears that the only thing we can do to help Chris in this one is to 
increase U.S. exports of personal injury attorneys to Germany. (Or help him 
find X19NiCrMo4 stock at a reasonable cost.) 

Scott B. 

-----Original Message----- 
From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On 
Behalf Of fubog1 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 5:10 PM 
To: tr4racing at googlemail.com; fot at autox.team.net 
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 axle shafts 

Just a few thoughts on the TR raxdiscussion, based on my observations over 
the years... 
Obviously the problems are largely dueto the nature of the design, a live 
axle, not really ideal forracing, and the components, again, not made for 
racing stresses.Since we have to keep the original design, going by the 
rules, thatcan't be changed. 
The axle shaft, taper & key issueshave been discussed. 
The other failure mode is that of thewheel hub, which can crack 
circumferentially at the inside corner ofthe wheel flange face and the drum 
locating boss, down at about a 45degree angle through to the inside corner 
of the seal journal andinside of the hub. These inside corners don't have 
good radii and arepretty rough, and the little weep hole is another stress 
raiser, andthe cross-section isn't that impressive to begin with. The 
flange/hubobviously has a lot of lateral load on it from cornering forces 
butalso the heavy load that is applied when the hub is removed 
forinspection. 
I suspect that these cracks are sometimes initiallycaused during the hub 
removal, since the factory tool pulls on theflange and puts all of that load 
through it to the center of the hub.A good crack check will show it but it 
just adds to the potential forfailure of the stock components. 
The bSouthwickb conversion retainsthe original (poor) design, live vs 
floating axles, and eliminatesall of the known failure points. It offers no 
performance advantageat all. Since one of the main objectives of the rules 
makers andsanctioning bodies is to allow us to race safely, I would think 
thatthey would encourage the conversion... 
Glen 

-----Original Message----- 
From: MadMarx <tr4racing at googlemail.com> 
To: fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2014 5:12 pm 
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 axle shafts 

Ken, 

I had this talk with the tech people of the ASN. 
Answer: 
"A axle upgrade in this way is an advantage in performance and not allowed. 
You can run harder on curbs than the car without upgrade and might gain 
speed from it. Not granted." 
Then I came up with safety issues. 
Answer: 
"You choose your race car. If your car is not suitable for racing, it's your 
problem. Where should it end? One car has small brakes, other ones have soft 
wishbones and so on. You have to run it as it is." 

So the only thing I can do is to change the shaft. 

Cheers 
Chris 
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