[Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's

Tony and Annie Garmey horizonracing at msn.com
Fri Dec 6 19:41:24 MST 2013 

Couple of things to remember about Moss motors. They have a done a Phenomenal
job supplying the old STREET car market with parts. You can't beat there
customer service or there inventory, but having said that, I also understand
that 'most' (not all) the parts  made by the lowest bidder. So choose your
parts carefully.

I have used and will again,  the alloy/steel dampener that is supplied from
Racetorations (spl?) in the UK. One of 'my' engines did in fact break a crank
this year. It was a moldex :( A very sad day...however, It was a std-std crank
that had been in "service" in a race car for 12 years !

Tony

> From: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be
> To: tr4racing at googlemail.com
> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 01:14:17 +0100
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's
>
> I'm an experienced crankshaft breaker. When I started racing, I fitted the
> narrow V-belt conversion together with the MGB crankshaft pulley/dampener.
> This is the dampener sold by Moss Europe and also by Rimmer Bros UK,
neither
> of these companies are giving any explanation about the rpm range. Dampers
> have their own natural oscillation, but it seems no one can tell what this
> rpm is for this pulley.(Maybe this rpm is getting lower with the aging and
> deteriorating of the bonding material). After some 10 races with this MGB
> dampenenr, my standard, balanced but not nitrided, crankshaft broke at the
> usual spot : the rearmost web near the 4th big end journal ( John Hasty has
> sent a photo to Chris Marx, showing a crank broken at this spot). Then I
> bought a billet steel crankshaft and raced it with the same MGB dampener :
> this crankshaft broke after 5 race week ends (about 7 race hours) at the
> same spot. I bought this steel crank from TR Enterprises, but the original
> dealer is a german race parts supplier, who is trying to keep prices low,
> sometimes this policy goes wrong : I know of 3 other failures of this same
> make of steel cranks, one on an engine of Jo Willems, fitted with a
damper.I
> don't know if the 2 other broken cranks were raced with or without a
damper.
> In the meantime, TR Enterprises was aware of the bad quality of these
> cranks, and I got free parts from them as a partial compensation, after the
> german supplier had to agree that the crank was faulty. I appreciate a lot
> what TR Enterprises(UK) has done.
> Since 2007, I have a billet steel crank with dummy mains and 8 counter
> weights in order to have the 4 cranks balanced on their own. After about
100
> races, the crank is in best shape, notwithstanding the use of the MGB
> dampener. A Mr Nuyts of Antwerp, Belgium, has made this crank for 1675
Euro,
> a little more than half of the price of the german steel crank.
> After reading all the comments, and the experience of Kas Kastner who did
> not fit damper pulleys on his countless engines, without bad consequences,
> I'll remove the MGB damper on my race engine and will fit the small
> aluminium Gilmer pulleys, saving at least 4 lbs.
> Marcel, Belgium
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Namens
> MadMarx
> Verzonden: vrijdag 6 december 2013 22:04
> Aan: fot at autox.team.net
> Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's
>
> You are right with your statement but let me add this.
>
> With nitrate hardening you insert nitrate to the surface to make it harder.
>
> As you notice your bearings grow from that.
>
> I cant explain it properly:
>
> You get an pushing pressure along the surface. If the crank bends  the
> pulling pressure on the surface is delayed by the pushing pressure caused
by
> the hardening. You use the same affect with shot peening.
>
> That makes the crank more resistant against cracks.
>
> Simple, isnt it?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Tony and Annie Garmey [mailto:horizonracing at msn.com]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 6. Dezember 2013 21:56
> An: Chuck Gee; MadMarx
> Cc: fot at autox.team.net
> Betreff: RE: [Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's
>
>
>
> I may be incorrect here, but isn't nitriding a surface harding? It helps
> with wear on the Bearing surfaces. The best precaution I have found
> regardless if its a stock crank or billet,  is making sure the radius at
the
> bearing Journals are as big a radi as you can. Even if you have to chamfer
> the bearings. Shot penning a stock crank will also help smooth the edges.
> Not Always, but a crack will start at a Corner or sharp edge.
>
> Tony G.
>
>
> > From:  <mailto:chasgee at aol.com> chasgee at aol.com
> > Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 11:59:23 -0600
> > To:  <mailto:tr4racing at googlemail.com> tr4racing at googlemail.com
> > CC:  <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> fot at autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's
> >
> > And nitride it to try and keep the crack from starting in the first
place.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > On Dec 6, 2013, at 11:39 AM, "MadMarx" <
> <mailto:tr4racing at googlemail.com> tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Unusual spot to break because the torque rises from front to rear.
> > > So
> the
> > > first spot to break is the rear end with the highest load.
> > >
> > > I'm a civil engineer, so I have a small clue about forces.
> > > If the crank has no flywheel and not pulleys, just the crank with
> > > rods
> and
> > > pistons it can freely bend on high load like a two field beam.
> > > A flywheel stops bending because the flywheel don't like to wobble,
> > > it
> > likes
> > > to run straight so the cranks rear end is forced to run straight,
> > > while
> the
> > > parts between the mains swing. That induce forces into the last
> > > counter weight and maybe lead to a crack.
> > > The same with a damper on front. It reduces the swing in the middle
> between
> > > main 1 and 2 but it rises the force on the counter weight.
> > >
> > > As a civil engineer I would say, let it swing and make the flywheel
> > > and clutch as light as possible and you get the most out of the crank.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]
> > > Im Auftrag von John Hasty
> > > Gesendet: Freitag, 6. Dezember 2013 15:54
> > > An: 'Michael Porter'; 'Randall'
> > > Cc:  <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> fot at autox.team.net
> > > Betreff: Re: [Fot] aftermarket crank dampeners and pullies for TR4's
> > >
> > > For what it is worth, we got 10 race weekends on our last rebuild
> running a
> > > damper from BFE. The crank broke between # 1 rod and front main on
> > > last race, last lap, last turn while running 1st. in EP. I regularly
> > > turned
> > 6500
> > > in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6200 in OD. The motor always ran smooth with no
> > > vibration I could feel even with the front engine plate bolted
> > > directly
> to
> > > the frame
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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