From grandwazoo at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 18:14:50 2010 From: grandwazoo at earthlink.net (Mike Jackson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:14:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Need help looking at "Car in a barn" in Ohio Message-ID: <11224903.1285978490254.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Oct 2 10:07:38 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:07:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Brew Swap Reminder Message-ID: VTR 2010 BREW SWAP 2 A second gathering of suds lovers will take place at this years national convention at Jekyll Island. It will be an informal gathering of friends to share your favorite home brew or that special microbrew that you like so well. The Brew Swap will take place on Monday October 18th in the Hospitality Suite at the host hotel. It will be a prelude to the welcome reception, from 4:30 to 6:30 ish. We will provide the room, tables and some glasses. Bring a six pack of your favorite cold special beverage and possibly some snacks that would go good with beer. Game plan is to mingle and sample others favorite beers. This will give us an opportunity to sample some home brews made by fellow Triumph enthusiast and possibly some micro brews from different parts of the country that you normally would not get to try. We did a brew swap 1 at the 2008 convention and all had a blast. This years brew swap will include a home brew competition so all you hops cookers out there get you best recipe fermenting and see how you do against your fellow brewers. Cheers, Marty Sukey From adcronin at ameritech.net Sat Oct 2 10:23:56 2010 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (Dan Cronin) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:23:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Change of email address Message-ID: <967A3E1B-484C-44E0-BFE8-0F2033DDB3C0@ameritech.net> 10/2 Marty Could not find a location using the info at the bottom of the list email (received) that would allow me to advise you of a change in email address. Looks like I somehow was sucecsfull in changing the TR list an that is now coming to my new address, but FOT---not! At any rate please help by eliminating old address: adcronin at ameritech.net to the new one: adcronin at mi.rr.com (we ditched DSL and went to cable. Thanks, Dan Cronin PS: can't seem to find password...... From walt at hot-tr6.com Sat Oct 2 11:34:50 2010 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:34:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far enough into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. Thanks Walt Hollowell Abq., NM _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 2 15:27:20 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:27:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] This TR3 doesn't look too bad Message-ID: <11A551AA-7E65-4147-9BD0-E7B6D5D828E3@earthlink.net> NFI, Just spotted it on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-1960-TRIUMPH-TR3-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f59a6363QQitemZ300473279331QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks ~Steve From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 1 02:38:23 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:38:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 In-Reply-To: <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> References: <000601cb5595$142cf5d0$3c86e170$@camoletti.ch> <8CD23B673068650-1B84-E366@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> Message-ID: <001701cb6144$02a68910$07f39b30$@camoletti.ch> Dear Friends of Triumph! It is a great pleasure and an honour to become part of your fellowship! I had read about it in Mr Kastner's book and wondered how to be part of it. Thank you to Joe for introducing me and to all of you for welcoming me aboard. May I briefly introduce myself: just turned 38 (15 Sep), business lawyer in Geneva (www.rrlegal.ch), Switzerland, old Europe. Aside that I restore classic cars and spend 20 hours /week in the workshop. Started with the TR3A my uncle gave me for my 20th birthday in 1992, which he bought in 63 and laid up in 71. Then you know the story, the quick recommissioning turned into a 11 years 4000 hours concours restoration. In the meantime I also restored a rare dry sump Lotus turbo esprit (1981-2). Last Winter I recommissioned a Bristol 400 1948 for a friend's son who got it for his 20th birthday too (but 17 years later). In 2007 the TR3 seized a valve (Engine rebuilt in UK, not by me, insufficient play at the guides). I took this opportunity to take the engine out and start the period competition preparation I long intended to do. This means that I upgrade the car to period mods only, so that it remains concours. I would not use parts or accessories that would not have existed at the time. I try to use original NOS or SH original parts (for instance for spot lights, additional switches, screen heater, cig lighter, vacuum gauge). Engine is built for long distance events. It is quite a long and painstaking work involving lots of research, to make sure I get and fit the right bits. For instance I got a Derrington wheel made by Moto-Lita (Moto Lita made them for Derrington in the 50s) with the original woods of the 50s they found under a pile in their shed, with the right number of rivets (the modern repro Derrington steering wheel of Moto Lita have more rivets and different woods). As another couple of examples, I fit a front sway bar, but an exact reproduction of the Stanpart factory option, including the exact brackets and hardware. I made a fake bar in copper tube, and made a drawing for production by a specialised company. Like this I have the exact sway bar and fittings the competition dept used. The modern bars are all different. Front competition springs are also made according to factory specs, as new uprated springs (while available in a variety of choices) are all RH helix and certainly more often than not are not shot peened, given the price they are sold) while the factory competition ones were LH helix and shot peened (the stock ones had a RH helix, to differentiate them from the comp ones). I also make the oil cooler fittings myself, exactly as the SAH option came at the time (no adapter plate, fittings welded/brazed directly on the oil canister aluminium head). The factory used the SAH oil cooler option and never produced one in fact. I enclose a short pdf with pixs of the car in its present state and the current work. The books of Mr Kastner prove invaluable in that matter, first because they provide me with the guidance for these cars on what to do or not to make them work fast and well, and how to do it, plus they inform very specifically on what was done at the time on the competition cars, which is the point in my work. I will also retrim the car with a red interior, as I found brand new original Stanpart leather seats (incl. rear seat) in storage in UK since the 70s. The red trim is correct for the BRG paint of the car (being a Jan 59 car, TS42673 LO). When the car will be ready I will certainly build up a website and write a book, as I realised that I am gathering info over my years of research that was lost or no longer known to people (even concours judges), for details such as trim screws, carpet binding material (fi Rexine ref RX17 the original binding material is available again via the book binder business they remade it for), trimming materials (the specific Connolly leather finish which no longer exists on modern leathers but can be made to order), wire colour codes for accessories,....But for now I concentrate all free time in the shop to make the car(s) work (Esprit is waiting a g/box rebuild and a retrim and new exhaust line and turbo and AP Racing brakes). Please accept my apologies for introducing myself 2 weeks after being in the list, work was too much these last weeks! But I read all your posts (and watch the videos as well, at least a bit). I will certainly soon build a proper race car and go racing on the track, when my concours comp TR3 is finally done (but I hope it will be a damn fast road car, competitive on road rallies as well). With my very best regards, Alexandre Camoletti -----Message d'origine----- De : Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] Envoyi : jeudi 16 septembre 2010 17:50 @ : n197tr4 at cs.com Cc : ac at camoletti.ch; fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 Sounds like a great addition. On Sep 16, 2010, at 6:01 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote: [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of PixTR3AlexCamolettiOcto2010.pdf] From pcdelux at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 06:28:33 2010 From: pcdelux at verizon.net (William Dewar) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 08:28:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Walt and list, In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but they were for factory aluminum rims. Bill Dewar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 3 08:03:27 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 09:03:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Message-ID: <319064613AC04E08B896EA2FF133CD95@latitudefb1e41> The knurl diameter on the TR's is .500". I've never found any aftermarket ones in that diameter but these ones listed in the Pegasus catalog should work if you can find the right lug nuts for your wheels. Wheel Studs - Late Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, Short (5-pk) Heat-treated 8740 chrome moly studs have a tensile strength of 190,000 psi to handle the shock loads and lateral forces in racing applications. Pack of 5 studs. Lug nuts are sold separately. a.. Knurl Diameter: 0.509" b.. Knurl Length: 0.315" c.. Nose (unthreaded) Length: none d.. Shank Length: 2.500" e.. Thread Size: M12x1.5 Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dewar" To: "Walter Hollowell" ; Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > Walt and list, > > In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. > I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts > and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric > size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the > hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but > they were for factory aluminum rims. > > Bill Dewar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > >> On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 >> Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far >> enough >> into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of >> longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. >> Thanks >> Walt Hollowell >> Abq., NM >> >> _____ >> >> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > >> . >> SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. >> >> Do you have a slow PC? > >> Try free scan! >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 3 08:50:58 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:50:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 3 09:00:45 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:00:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:14:58 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:14:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001201cb6316$20b738e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi, I'm using studs gotten from Jegs; Summit and most other places sell basically the same thing. They're about 2 3/4 inches long. The hubs need to have the holes enlarged and the studs pressed in. Easy job. I have the reamers if you need to borrow them. My machinest says ream, don't drill. If you don't have a press, use the BFH. I use my Panasport lug nuts that at one time were acorn style (closed end). I chucked them up in my lathe, drilled clear through, them tapped the newly drilled section so they will screw onto the longer studs. All this is pretty easy with the hubs disassembled. Hope this helps. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:18:45 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric crap on my car!!!! It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to carry around. Bill---- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From triosan at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 11:08:10 2010 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:08:10 +0100 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: Best place I have found for lug nuts is at : http://www.ezaccessory.com/Default.asp On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, WILLIAM TOBIN wrote: > Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric > crap on my car!!!! > It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to > carry around. > Bill---- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > > > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far > > enough > > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > > Thanks > > Walt Hollowell > > Abq., NM > > > > _____ > > > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > > > . > > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > > > Do you have a slow PC? > > > Try free scan! > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triosan at gmail.com > > > -- Chuck Arnold and Kathleen Kelley From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 3 15:24:22 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 07:24:22 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: can any of the folk who suggested alternative studs confirm they have taper seats on end of the the stud where it presses into the hub?? (eg TR6). I've never seen a non-british car with this arrangement, and only a few BMC ones had it as far as I know. terry o'beirne, Australia R From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 3 17:09:29 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> References: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD316729CE150B-1EB0-212B0@webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com> With the TR4 neither Sean nor I notice any wheel spin with the Quaife since making some suspension changes a few years ago. It may work even better with GT6 and Spitfire. -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Quaife question I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From fasttrs at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 19:54:05 2010 From: fasttrs at yahoo.com (Mike Munson) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 3.45 gear set Message-ID: <497807.42516.qm@web46111.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am in need of a 3.45 ring and pinion. Anybody out there have one or know where I can get one? Thanks guys. Mike From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 06:04:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 06:04:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Marty, I use a Quaife in my tr4/IRS and it works great. I have been told they can still spin the inside wheel on a live axle car. With IRS you shouldn't have that problem. Jim G. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of marty sukey Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:51 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 4 07:49:52 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> References: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Hi, I've been running a Quaife in my autox-only TR6 for 10 years. I have fairly stiff springs, and a rear bar. To get the car to rotate effectively, you need to run the rear bar at pretty much the stiffest settings. With the Quaife, it is somewhat easy to spin the inside wheel. This is frustrating to me as a driver as I tend to be a little more agressive with my inputs with the predictable reward of wheel spin. Listen to the engine note in any of the vidZ I've posted to U-tooob, you can hear the motor unload. In fact, I get queries on a monthly basis from other autocrossers asking if my cluth is slipping. Nope - it's the Quaife. That said, my input to your question is "put the thing in and drive it." At the very least you'll wind up with a data point on mods for the future. For autocross, pretty much anything is better than an open diff. unless you are smoother than glass with your driving style. But the Quaife is good for a limited slip and much better than an open diff on the one hand an much better than a locker in the other hand. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 09:02:13 2010 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (vintage.racer at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 15:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <898332169.199787.1286204221531.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello: My 1962 TR4 racecar is for sale. Car was on the cover of The Vintage Triumph magazine in August 2007 which also included a feature article. The car is fully race ready and available immediately. Some highlights - less than two hours on rebuilt engine/transmission; Nitride hardened crank; Carrillo Rods; Wiseco pistons; RATCO frame ; Quaffe limited slip diff; Alexander steel flywheel, front axle upgrade; aluminum radiator; rear axle modification; and the list goes on. For photos, full list of car features and list of extensive spares, contact me offline. Thanks. Gary Horstkorta From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:23:08 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:23:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Message-ID: Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 4 11:34:30 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:34:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From andre at gt6.ca Mon Oct 4 11:36:19 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:36:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:40:11 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver References: Message-ID: <0CA5C8D3CCCD4EBB8C345767BC0543C4@Bud> Terrific!!..You guys are Cool! RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com > or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From igofaster at att.net Mon Oct 4 11:53:20 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <573342.29237.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> been listing my 1965 Spitfire raver ?? on eBay the last couple of weeks, it's still available if interested... Bobby ________________________________ From: Joe Curry To: RACER BUD ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:34:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/igofaster at att.net From adcronin at mi.rr.com Mon Oct 4 12:02:08 2010 From: adcronin at mi.rr.com (Dan Cronin) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 14:02:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Listers Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? Thanks, Dan C. From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 18:54:04 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] torque 5/16th bolt Message-ID: <533924.91050.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Friends: Had to split the calipers on the TR7 and now I'm ready to put them back together. The bolts are 5/16th. Information on line indicates the torque should be 14 ft/lbs. Anyone have any other thoughts? Thanks, Ernie From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 21:40:33 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 20:40:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spare rocker shaft needed for Spitfire Message-ID: <67EB842D164445F3B4D90509AC39DCF3@Bud> Hi Gang....I broke my rocker shaft on my Spitfire Sunday at Infineon...I installed my spare today....I now need a spare...I need the type with the end braces...stock is fine.....must be cheap! thanks..Racer Bud.... From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 4 23:55:21 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:55:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my >TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip >milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and >instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most >think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is >71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the >journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other >options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll >with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 5 01:01:59 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:01:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> I have to admit I am getting lost here. My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the lip seal and it will then groove the crank. Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly 2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them is 63.5. But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your experience with this dimension? Thank you ! Cheers Alexandre -----Message d'origine----- De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Tony Drews Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 @ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ac at camoletti.ch From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 08:57:52 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I took a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. I managed to have my local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group 44" oval white sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. I'm going to offer 1 or 2 for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the USA and I can get it to you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality but heck... at 110 mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and given a few away to some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... So if there are no objections, send me your name and mailing address. If all goes well I will start sending them out next week. We're going to Austin Texas this weekend (my second hometown) for the Austin City Music Festival... not sure I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd of 75000 for three days in a row, but the median age should be around 30 or so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer is the Freakin' Eagles are the headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? How many 30 year olds wanna see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being propped up to do their millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. although balding I don't have one of those little rat tail ponytails either... Bobby Whitehead CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ 1971 TR6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Tue Oct 5 09:09:04 2010 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:09:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The stickers are a nice idea but I'm not sure Bob Tullius will appreciate it. Back in the day, those stickers were applied only to cars that the Group felt were worthy of approval. I got one on my FP Spitfire but they put it on the inside of the trunk lid because it was a Kastner-built car! By the way, I saw the Eagles in concert two years ago and they put on a hell of a show. They've still got it. Mike Cook Bald, no pony tail > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 > From: igofaster at att.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > CC: GRMTim at aol.com > Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. > > As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with > Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I > took > a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. > > I managed to have my > local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group > 44" oval white > sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. > > I'm going to offer 1 or 2 > for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the > USA and I can get it to > you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality > but heck... at 110 > mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and > given a few away to > some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... > > So if there are no objections, send me > your name and mailing address. If all > goes well I will start sending them out > next week. We're going to Austin Texas > this weekend (my second hometown) for > the Austin City Music Festival... not sure > I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd > of 75000 for three days in a row, but the > median age should be around 30 or > so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer > is the Freakin' Eagles are the > headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? > How many 30 year olds wanna > see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being > propped up to do their > millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." > > Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. > although balding I don't have one of those little > rat tail ponytails > either... > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mlcooknj at msn.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 5 09:44:14 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:44:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <20101005154345.05E3A18763F@autox.team.net> The instructions that come with the seal call for the crank to be ground to 2.500". In many engine builds using this dimension, Jack and I fought leaking rear seals. Jack eventually discovered that if he had the crank turned to 2.525" rather than 2.500" that he had much better luck in getting the rear seal to work properly. He also shortened the spring supplied with the kit to 8". Prior to using the larger crank diameter, his fix was to cut a little off of one edge of the seal. This is a very inexact fix, and the larger crank diameter worked much better for us. Since my crank is ground to the smaller diameter, I don't have much recent experience with the 2.525" diameter. We never had a problem with the seal "grooving" the crank. I've had one rebuild out of probably 4 where I got the rear main to seal properly. I hope for the best every year. Jack wrote up a series of engine building tips, and I've made it available to everyone here: http://www.tonydrews.com/uncle_jacks_engine_building_tips.htm The larger crank diameter is one of the tips. - Tony Drews At 02:01 AM 10/5/2010, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: >I have to admit I am getting lost here. >My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be >ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the >lip seal and it will then groove the crank. >Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly >2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. >Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them >is 63.5. >But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. >Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your >experience with this dimension? >Thank you ! >Cheers >Alexandre > >-----Message d'origine----- >De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la >part de Tony Drews >Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 >@ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph >Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll > >For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, >and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction >to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal >instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it >seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the >seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the >spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the >seal. > >The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander >is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. > >- Tony Drews > >At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: > >Listers > >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank > >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had > >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective > >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil > >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that > >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is > >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by > >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you > >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip >seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > >Thanks, Dan C. > >_ From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Oct 5 10:03:31 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K Message-ID: Hi All, some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which helped but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and not much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put TR3 steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. If you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite to get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc etc but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one piece, 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground flat on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the wheel broke :) Cheers Tony From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 5 14:55:02 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:55:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Eagles are still amazing. From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Oct 5 15:21:27 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:21:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indeed they are. Perhaps the best American band. Now, if we just had some modern Triumphs to watch race... And to buy... Terry Stetler. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: michael cook Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. The Eagles are still amazing. From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Oct 5 17:03:52 2010 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K References: Message-ID: Results are obvious Really enjoyed the Watkins Glen show a few years back. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K > Hi All, > some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can > power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which > helped > but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set > up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and > not > much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put > TR3 > steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. > If > you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off > most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite > to > get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc > etc > but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one > piece, > 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground > flat > on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the > wheel broke :) > > Cheers > Tony From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 17:32:18 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers Message-ID: <67148.26976.qm@web180808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> wow... those went quick... most were doubles and a few asked for more than two... if you've asked by now, you will have your requests mailed tomorrow... if you haven't asked by now.... too late! they're gone! thanks for the interest! cheers! Bobby From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:35:34 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:35:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? Message-ID: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:15 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] studs for tr3 and tr4 and tr6 Message-ID: <8CD32FD6045B6CF-1CFC-3CD3@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> forgot to mention model From jhassall at blacksburg.net Tue Oct 5 18:09:11 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:09:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 5 18:33:20 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? In-Reply-To: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <716868.33648.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I used the Moroso wheel stud # 46160 on my TR3, TR4, and the TVR - front and rear. ...they are 7/16"/20 x 2 7/8" long .560" dia knurl - a 9/16" drill did the trick Dennis Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/yellow-green at sbcglobal.net From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 5 18:41:29 2010 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:41:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F2C42BB-BF64-43E8-9113-399256CFDE79@earthlink.net> > "one of those little rat tail ponytails" > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 Hummm... Do I resemble that remark? No, I guess not - mine is more like what you'd find on the back of an ass. Oops! I meant donkey. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Oct 5 20:16:47 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:16:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 20:45:24 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> We are also processing a new tool to go with Chris' Viton Seal. It is called MURPHY'S TOOL, courtesy of Tim. Prototypes are being made and they will aid in compacting the felt seal in the rear bearing block. Add this to the new Centering Tool with corrected dimension and maybe we have a better chance to seal nothing should be left to chance. and dont forget engine block ventilation. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gray To: 'J.C. Hassall' ; 'Dan Cronin' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph Triumph' Sent: Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:16 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 05:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris From rfdeanes at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 06:06:25 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:06:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Good show..TRs can still do it ! As one person has said " THE SHAPE OF THINGS STILL HERE"! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 08:22:15 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:22:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting Message-ID: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Oct 6 08:28:12 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA Message-ID: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Oct 6 08:55:56 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. jim g ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pendergrass" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM Subject: [Fot] block venting Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B Mark Pendy B TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 6 08:56:08 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101006145533.4F18F18767D@autox.team.net> You have the big crankcase vent in the left hand side of the block run to your catch tank too? Having that plugged or too small (maybe a small fitting in the fuel pump cover plate) has been a source of pressure build up in my experience. Pulling the plug in the hole for the big vent so it can be re-installed with the engine in the car is a major PITA. - Tony Drews At 09:22 AM 10/6/2010, Mark Pendergrass wrote: >Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of >pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the >rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum >cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on >cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark >Pendy TR4#65 >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:06:23 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:07 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting ros On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:36 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: er connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:07 AM, robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting ros > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > >> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 >> lines. >> >> >> >> jim g >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Pendergrass" >> To: "friends of triumph" >> Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM >> Subject: [Fot] block venting >> >> Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot >> of >> pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around >> the >> rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned >> aluminum >> cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung >> on >> cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >> venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance >> B >> Mark >> Pendy B TR4#65 >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 6 09:17:10 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:17:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3318FA89-F477-4324-A085-60D41ED47F98@earthlink.net> I've been told by Kas that you can't have too much ventilation on the TR3/4 engine. I run a 1" hose from the old sump vent (Modified as in the old black book) and a 1" hose coming off the valve cover into a nice big catch tank next to the battery. Steve B On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:22 AM, Mark Pendergrass wrote: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/colordog.1 at earthlink.net From jason at multivintage.com Wed Oct 6 09:19:33 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Wow, Nice Drive...Colin Chapman must be rolling over in his grave. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From gt6steve at aol.com Wed Oct 6 10:35:36 2010 From: gt6steve at aol.com (gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:35:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA In-Reply-To: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD338BA3A0AEB6-1990-16DD@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> I still have a nice yellow GT6 racer for sale cheap! Steve in Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: n197tr4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 7:28 am Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com = From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 11:33:06 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:33:06 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <000d01cb657c$8abec7e0$a03c57a0$@com> Close to Ramstein airbase. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Alexandre Camoletti [mailto:ac at camoletti.ch] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2010 15:29 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge Well done ! Where are you based? Alex (Geneva) From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:26:48 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (mark eginton) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:26:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <000001cb65b6$54c8cc50$6401a8c0@HP> Well, if you decide to run without it I can tell you; keep a hand on the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake in corners where you get a lot of wheel spin. Back in the late 50s my dad and his friends used the ebrake in gymkanas when the wheel would spin - before he put limited slip in. Works great in a TR3 since you have to push the button to get it the ebrake to stay pulled. I have tried it in an autocross (unfortunately, I threw out the limited slip thinking all rear ends had them in my brainless youth!) but it does work better than nothing. Not nearly as good as limited slip but it does make a difference. Have fun, M From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:30:03 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (Mark Eginton) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:30:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <4CAD148B.1040400@twcny.rr.com> If you choose not to install the Quaif, you can always revert to the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake. My dad used it in gymkanas back in the day and I have tried it in autocrosses. Its easier in a TR3 as you have to push the button to keep the brake on so its like driving an old 1900s car with a hand brake. Once you identify the corners with wheel slip, use the ebrake and it does actually help - not a good as limited slip but it does work. Unfortunately, I unknowingly threw out a broken diff with limited slip so I don't have it now... M From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 18:51:15 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 18:51:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting rod! > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 19:26:42 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:26:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD21D2.1000302@bradakis.com> Sometimes it sucks being poor. Rob Deanes recently sent me a pic of his TR4 at full chat, and I have been wishing I still had the Rust Rocket, or The White Car, or my 250... I'll give you $100 down and $100 a month for the rest of my life. mjb. From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 20:30:18 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:30:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <30014A77468C472F828A89737F8621C6@Pendys> No thanks, i'll stick with the rubber hoses....MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] block venting > robert bownes wrote: >> Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a >> connecting rod! >> > > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mpendy at dishmail.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 7 04:41:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:41:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> And race 3 http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 08:35:56 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> Message-ID: What Happened? On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 5:41 AM, MadMarx wrote: > And race 3 > > > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < > > tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: > > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From riverside at southslope.net Thu Oct 7 10:05:15 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 14:23:53 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 13:23:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] springs for TR4AIrs Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I recently bought a race car project - and I am going through the suspension first. This is a 4A irs car, and I am looking for suggestions on where to buy race springs for a 4a, and what spring rate should I look for? I am not planning on modifying the suspension geometry, so I assume this means that I should get stiffer springs? Thanks in advance, Mark From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:13:52 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: Don't know about the heads, but for the cam, I'd suggest the Kastner A-6. TSI lists it and says it's marginal for the street, but I had a friend that ran one back in the '70's on the street and it worked fine. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 19:44:44 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 20:44:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 Message-ID: Check out the lasted Classic Motorsports Rag. Our very own Scott Barr, my now famous driving instructor, has his car featured in the "only guy crazy enough to drive a GT6 to work" section of the magazine. He even quotes his pride for FOT adding even more mystique and allure to our group. Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From budscars at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:45:01 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:45:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG..INFINEON....Next....THUNDERHILL Message-ID: <9767547A0780410F82F994407CD53758@Bud> Hi Gang...It was terrific hooking up with some of you guys at Infineon..Now .I'm entered for Thunderhill...It's a nice..friendly track...lot's of runoff..designed to be like the old days..and ..we help the town of Willows...It's also our annual banquet(at the track)..Free for 2 with entry..and.Free.Friday afternoon testing ...sponsored/paid for by Gordon Walton...Honda Racer... Racer bud From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 8 05:33:37 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:33:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Badge update 10-8-2010 Message-ID: Amici, Nothing new to report as of yet. I am waiting to get the sample and when I do I'll take more pictures and a video of it. Deadline is November 1,2010 58 badges are paid for. Price is only $30. Payment can be PayPay (SeaCubeCo at aol.com). Or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) Thank you From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 06:11:29 2010 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:11:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. Irv Korey From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 07:32:13 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:32:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Oct 8 08:07:40 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:07:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 08:46:02 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:46:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 8 09:01:25 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:01:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE Message-ID: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! It has rather surprised me how many GT6's have been developed in recent years. There was a time when I was the only TRIUMPH in VARA. Then Paul Smock came along and winning has gotten progressively harder since....;-)) In a message dated 10/8/2010 7:31:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n197tr4 at cs.com writes: Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From list at mackenzie.aero Fri Oct 8 09:01:40 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:01:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb66f9$b707e970$2517bc50$@aero> Art: If I am not mistaken, the dished pistons were used to lower the CR for the US spec cars. The thickness of the head casting remained the same. Flat-top pistons are a must if you want to get anything above 9:1 CR. Here are a couple of good links with useful information: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm#Port_and _Polish_and_Flow_the_Head http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spitheads.htm Use this xl spreadsheet to calculate how much you want/need to take off. (if anybody else need a copy send me an e-mail and I will shoot you a copy) I recently built a 1500 for street/autocross use. It worked out so well I am building it again, but that is another story... On my head I took off .125 to with an early 1500 block using stock flat top pistons for a just under 9:1 CR I also had John at Costa Mesa R&D install modified TR7 valves and beehive springs to the max allowable diameters as per the SCCA Solo GP specs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlY0sTYYBY (I think John can put these springs on any other TR engine as well - shameless plug for a good friend) As for cams; on my auto-X motor I used Ted S's 275-4 cam and it is great. (Another shameless plug) Let me know if I can help you in any way. Robert MacKenzie President, Hill Country Triumph Club Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) -------------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 From: "riverside" Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads To: Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0 at your55e5f9e3d2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/vnd] From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:29:19 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:29:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s > seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be > a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. >> He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very >> occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 09:39:28 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> References: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Message-ID: Your Right, I could use two.... but I'm afraid I'd have to take the red one! :) Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:48:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:48:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Two good projects up for sale in Colorado Message-ID: <1635925597.9466.1286552938142.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Just a couple good project car packages for sale. N.F.I. on my part. This is a pair of TR-3's with many new parts. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1995092432.html Our own Tyler Thompson # 413 TR4 has a Bug Eye for sale to help fund two TR-4's for his sons. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1972998457.html Jim G From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 8 10:43:50 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 09:43:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Fitting into a GT6 is more than just overall height. I am only 5-10 but have a difficult time fitting. It is because I have relatively short legs and a long torso. It's the torso that is the problem. My head hits the roof unless I scrunch down. At the same time, If I ride a horse, I sit high in the saddle (If I can ever reach the stirrup to get up there in the first place). Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Janzen Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:29 AM Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 8 12:07:20 2010 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:07:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: ============= Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 12:11:28 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Cough after shedding 40 lbs to go racing I reject that BIG title. hehe Let me know when its out Kas. Would make a nice XMAS stocking stuffer. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100925__1997.jpg A. On 8 October 2010 14:07, Kas Kastner wrote: > My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. > ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: > > ============= > Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. > > I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the > machine or for that matter safety exiting. > > http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html > > I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. > > I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and > even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it > almost impossible to do cleanly. > With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering > wheel. > > http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg > > So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. > http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg > > BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and > entering the car. > He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in > its like a big go cart. > > A. > > On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: >> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to > be >> gaining in popularity. >> >> NFI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jason Ostrowski >> To: Irv Korey >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 >> >> >> I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good >> Student and give my teacher HELL. >> ANY GT6 is a winner to me >> Cheers.. >> Jason >> FGR >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>>> >>> >>> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >>> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >>> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >>> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >>> >>> Irv Korey >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca >> >> >> > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net > > > > -- > Never be beaten by equipment > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From trmarty at hotmail.com Fri Oct 8 12:18:51 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:18:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias Message-ID: Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of years ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. Sleeve on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of each m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at the top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. Hmmmm, did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and noticed there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back and forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods are fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking there are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop I thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like this. Marty From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 8 13:01:06 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:01:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions Message-ID: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> It's been a long time since I've worked on a TR3 bound for the street. I'm building what I'd describe as a hot rod street TR3 for myself, from a failed resto I bought a few years ago. Putting a lot of unused racing parts I've accumulated on the car where appropriate. I have some questions. Front brakes--I've trial-fitted the Wilwood superlight calipers I have laying around (no one will let me get away with them on Peyote) and discovered the outer edge of the pads sit about an inch outside the disk. I thought I might have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? I'm pretty sure I didn't have such a bad fit on the old Cheater. They look like they need to be about 1" further in. The inner edge of the pad is equally miss-fit. There's about an inch of wear pattern on the rotor in from the inner edge of the pad. Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter driveshaft. Yes/No? I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. From tjwakeman at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 13:43:59 2010 From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:43:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 13:54:27 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F64EBB22C444E33B31BD99765A47DD3@INSPIRON> I don't think you need to do that On my tilt on set there is some play back and forth. This system changes the bias to front and rear buy the moving of the cylinder(in the sleeve) closer to or further away from the master rod Go to the Tilton web site and look at there install info There some good pictures and explanation on the theory Use real caution the next time on the track (if you make changes)until you are sure the brakes are balanced. To much rear brake and you will spin before you know it rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net From goodparts at verizon.net Fri Oct 8 14:38:41 2010 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:38:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9907B482534D48A7B5A72B0E7A72D991@AdminPC> Marty, Brake bias is not changed when the rod and yoke assembly slides side to side in the tube because the ball and socket that is on the threaded rod inside the tube is also sliding. The ball is what transfers the force from the tube to the threaded rod so it is the location of the ball on the threaded rod in relation to the two yokes that determines the bias. Generally, the yokes on each end of the threaded rod should be threaded fairly close to the big tube in the pedal arm leaving just enough clearance so as to not bind when the threaded rod operates at maximum angle. If the yokes want to be further apart so the rods to the MC's are straight you can use washers or spacers between. Richard Good ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ From jibjib at att.net Fri Oct 8 15:41:48 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:41:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <180A535151DF44DB855548EF5D4B94BF@EntCent> TerriAnn nailed it all except the brakes, which seems really weird to me. Do you have a stock caliper to compare the Wilwoods to? I can't think of anything that would put the caliper out an inch from the C/L of the wheel. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TeriAnn J. Wakeman Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:44 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Stocker questions On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 8 17:34:39 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:34:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: > I thought I might > have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". That's the size of the later TR4-TR6 rotors; original TR3 rotors were 11". The TR4-6 mounts also move the caliper closer to the axle, but I'm not sure by how much. The calipers changed at the same time, so may not be strictly comparable. > Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? Not from the factory, although the later mounts will fit on the TR3 vertical links. > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a > mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? As TeriAnn said, the 4-synchro box is a bit longer than the original 3-synchro, so slot the mounting holes in the rear crossmember. ISTR I also rolled down the lip on the crossmember a bit, but that may not always be required. Depending on which gearbox, you may also need to fiddle with the clutch linkage. I used a late TR6 box with the thicker flange, which moved the clutch slave back by 1/4" or so. I had to trim the pushrod to match, and make a bracket for the return spring. Also longer studs & bolts for mounting, but that's trivial. Randall From jhassall at blacksburg.net Fri Oct 8 20:16:42 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:16:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <4CAFD08A.40406@blacksburg.net> On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the > additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? > > They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve > pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. > > See drawing > > Alex > Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 9 02:19:27 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 03:19:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 References: Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C740190A884@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Cripes - a guy goes on vacation and look what happens! Just checked my e-mail for the first time since arriving. It was really cool to see The Colonel featured in my favorite magazine (thanks, Tim!). That car has been a ton of fun, on-track and off (and got close to FTD at VTR in my first autocross attempt :-) Clearly the car and not me). Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net on behalf of Jason Ostrowski Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 8:32 AM To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 9 08:03:53 2010 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) Message-ID: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg From tlizzard at msn.com Sat Oct 9 08:09:21 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:09:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: So far the only fix is to carry a lot of spares, and hope the new ones are good. I wish someone with the engineering and production know how would come up with some made from modern materials, I.E. a single piece of plastic stuff, whatever it might be. The Chinese have no clue how to make these things. Terry Stetler From list at mackenzie.aero Sat Oct 9 09:40:47 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:40:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Wanted: Spit 1500 Crank Pulley Message-ID: <000b01cb67c8$58260d40$087227c0$@aero> I am in need of a crank pulley for a Spitfire 1500 engine. If anybody has a spare they can part with, please let me know. Robert MacKenzie Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 19:04:17 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:04:17 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 trunnions Message-ID: does anyone know of a vendor with a NOS left lower trunnion?. I've bought 2 reproduction ones so far, and both are sloppier than my 40year old STANPART one. thanks, terry o'beirne From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sat Oct 9 19:16:20 2010 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 20:16:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6818$c073a7e0$415af7a0$@com> There is a solution. A fella by the name of Harold Baker made some floats of the proper dimensions and weight out of aluminum with an o-ring seal at the top for Bill Dentinger and Bob Wismer. They were painstakingly made by Harold. Bill and Bob have graciously lent me some of the prototypes so I can get the dimensions from them. My plan is to talk to a friend of mine who has a machine shop with CNC milling machines and see if I can't make the programs and fixtures to "mass produce" this type of float from aluminum bar stock. You have now given me some motivation to get off of my butt and get going on this "winter" project. I will post occasional updates on my progress, or lack thereof. Tim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 9:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmurph at fastbytes.com From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 23:19:19 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:19:19 +1000 Subject: [Fot] chasing Nardi steering wheel boss Message-ID: would anyone have a Nardi steering wheel boss to suit a TR5/TR6 . dont care if there is no horn button. thanks, terry O'Beirne From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Oct 10 20:12:37 2010 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:12:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 From robertten1 at aol.com Sun Oct 10 21:18:19 2010 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> References: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD370A1348215E-1DF0-23204@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> I guess I should hold onto my sticker and not use it on my car as I got mine back in the early seventies from a BL dealer and the Group 44 were the cars to beat. Cheers, Bob T -----Original Message----- From: GRMTim at aol.com To: igofaster at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Cc: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertten1 at aol.com From horizonracing at msn.com Mon Oct 11 07:12:57 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:12:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire Message-ID: List.... I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. Who or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? Thank you Tony From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 11 09:01:50 2010 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:01:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire References: Message-ID: Tony, have you tried British Parts NW? http://www.bpnorthwest.com/.sc/ms/dd/Spitfire-GT6--Performance%20Parts/7406/A-Arm%20Bushing%20Set%20Poly%20Spitfire-GT6 Charly Mitchel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire > List.... > I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. > Who > or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? > Thank you > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly at mitchelplumbing.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 11 16:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Seasons Final at the Nurburgring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501cb6994$10be62e0$323b28a0$@com> Race two from last weekend.... http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5526918229788066034 Cheers Chris From whitedog72 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 11 18:28:33 2010 From: whitedog72 at hotmail.com (f s) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:28:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Oct 11 18:34:37 2010 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (jaxonracing at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:34:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: I wud love a copy of that as well if they are available. Jay creel ------Original Message------ From: f s Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumph friends Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Sent: Oct 11, 2010 8:28 PM Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaxonracing at yahoo.com From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 11 22:51:34 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:51:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/5/6 Aluminum hubs Commercial message Message-ID: <20101012045102.52BB5187658@autox.team.net> uncle jack's racing Aluminum front hubs are going back into production for a limited quantity run. These are a revised design that I've been testing all season. We are using a different set of inner bearings than the prior aluminum hubs used, but they have the same high load rating and are about half of the cost. These hubs eliminate a significant weakness in the stock hubs between the inner and outer flange. They incorporate very high load rating, larger than stock Timken bearings which eliminates the bearing failure issues that are present with stock bearings when using sticky tires. I have been running set with bearings of this load rating from 2003 through 2009 (before running the prototypes this year) and can detect no wear in the bearings. I drive them HARD, and am not afraid to use the curbs. I'm taking pre-orders at this time - no deposits yet. But, please don't pre-order a set if you don't really intend to buy them. This is a very significant investment for me, and I need to gauge the level of interest. Here's how the pricing shakes out (US dollars): A) Bare hubs: $175.00 each / $350.00 per pair B) Hubs with Timken races and ARP studs installed: $280.00 each / $560.00 per pair C) Hubs with all bearings, seals, dust caps and ARP studs installed: $370.00 each / $740.00 per pair For folks who order these hubs, if you already have the heavy duty axle kit, I'll supply a pair of bearing spacers that will work with these hubs for $40 per pair. If you don't already have a set of the Heavy Duty front axles, I'll supply the axle kit along with the hubs for $150 per pair. These are the lowest prices for the axle kits that have been offered. Shipping is a flat $20 in the continental US, $35 to Canada, and other international shipping is probably $50 - at least to Germany or to Australia. The hubs are designed to accept ARP 1/2" x 3" studs, but ARP 7/16" x 3.2" studs can be specified. 7/16" is the stock diameter. If you're interested, please send an e-mail to tony at tonydrews.com with the following info: * Which set you're interested in (A, B or C) * How many hubs are desired (2 would be assumed) * Stud diameter desired * Are spacers needed? Thanks for your interest, Tony Drews tony at tonydrews.com uncle jack's racing From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 12 00:38:01 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:38:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <002e01cb69d8$06328e20$1297aa60$@camoletti.ch> Hi Jim ! Called yesterday this seal specialised company in Geneva, but split lip seals are not used in the industry sot hey could not help. But they provided an interesting info: lip compression on the shaft must be max 10 to 12 10th of mm (1.0 to 1.2 mm). Depending on the manufacturer, but all are within this range the engineer explained. This means that for a shaft at 63.5, seal with the uncompressed lip must be 62.5 max ID (range 62.3-62.5). If with this seal of 62.5 free ID the shaft is bigger than 63.5 or 63.7 OD max, then the lip will not seat on the shaft as designed and the oil film in between will not work and make the seal. Leaks. Yesterday I measured the Moss seal lip when assembled and it measures exactly at 62.5. So this is correct for a 63.5 axle. But we have to be aware that lip seals are designed to withstand a pressure of 0.5 bar usually. Not much. So important to relieve oil pressure on the seal by drilling the recommended holes. Maybe fit an oil splash control washer if possible? So I will go for the 63.6 journal grind (this is the up tolerance leaflet mentions) and drill the two 10mm additional holes. Maybe shorten the spring slightly. Cheers! Alexandre De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : mardi 12 octobre 2010 02:45 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/11/2010 3:26 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Thank you Jim ! Keep us posted ! We have a specialised company here in Geneva for industry lip seals and bearings, interesting to see what they advise. I will certainly replace the seal provided with the kit, as it looks dubious quality (no markings, no brand), with one from a reputable company, possibly made from Viton or some modern material, and with double lip. Will keep the FOT posted on my findings. Cheers! Alex Good luck Alex, and by all means please keep us posted. If there's a better seal out there, your discovery will be welcome by all of us who got burned. thanks, jim De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : samedi 9 octobre 2010 04:17 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Cc : fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. See drawing Alex Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of image001.png] From igofaster at att.net Wed Oct 13 07:56:11 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. Bobby Whitehead CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP Happy Motoring! From andre at gt6.ca Wed Oct 13 09:39:01 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 13 10:39:40 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Message-ID: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 13 11:00:12 2010 From: Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com (Spitfire Racing) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:00:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> References: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501cb6af8$19e828f0$4db87ad0$@rr.com> That's called a Spitfire! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Kramer Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:40 PM To: Andre Rousseau; Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 13 11:23:19 2010 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:23:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper head gasket source? Message-ID: <247c4.4fef2a2d.39e74507@aol.com> Need source for all-copper head gasket and solid graphite intake/exhaust gaskets Dave Spiwak spiwakd at aol.com From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:49:05 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:49:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= Message-ID: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:51:55 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:51:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Message-ID: Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Oct 13 16:56:24 2010 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:56:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a grand I hope it comes with a loose gold coins in the floorboards. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Office 512-657-8526 Cell Dream big dreams, but never forget that realistic short-term goals are the keys to your success. ~Mac Anderson -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:52 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer at rdoequipment.com From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 13 16:58:42 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= In-Reply-To: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Message-ID: <20101013225830.XQEK3042.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It could not be a GT6+ and a 74 model. The GT6+ model was made up until 1970. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph GT6 Plus 74b?T Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Oct 13 17:17:58 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:17:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB63E26.5000609@blacksburg.net> On 10/13/2010 6:51 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Another amazing find! > RB > "Recent" frame restoration?? Would that be "recent" in geologic terms? But it does include a Bushing, what a deal! > > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From list at mackenzie.aero Thu Oct 14 10:46:24 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:46:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 40 DOCE for a 1147 Spit Message-ID: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> I recently was given a weber DOCE 151 carb on a "LYNX SPIT" manifold that I intend to install on the 1147 engine in my '62 Spitfire racecar. The carb is in good condition but is lacking the linkage. My car still has the original bellcrank throttle linkage controlling the SUs Does anybody in FOT world run this carb on an 1147 powered early Spitfire? If so can you please send me some photos of your throttle linkages? Also; any recommendations on jetting would be appreciated as well. Robert MacKenzie NASS # 511 Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 13:19:23 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:19:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> Message-ID: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 14 14:04:37 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 14 14:13:59 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:13:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From tylerpthompson at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 14:31:24 2010 From: tylerpthompson at yahoo.com (tylerpthompson at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:31:24 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com><1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Count me in for two sets as well. Ty Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 To: MadMarx Cc: Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tylerpthompson at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 14:35:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:35:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <002701cb6bdf$4e300500$ea900f00$@com> Hi Tony, I run EBC yellow brake pads and I use ATE blue racing fluid. I have not measured the brake temps as my gauge ends at 200 degree centigrade. I used the available sealing rings you can buy but I always wondered about that they feel like that a Chinese worker does cut old bicycle tires into sealing rings. The available rings are very soft and look a little sloppy made. The seals I used came from Bastuck, Limora and Moss/Europe. The current ring I use I got as a sample for testing from the manufacturer, custom made for me. If you have them in your hands, you really feel the reliability compared with the Chinese worker made ones. I also think you could reuse them twice or more. The finest rubber for this use they are made from. But expensive..240 is a huge number of rings. Will make a hole in my pocket ;-) Cheers Chris Von: Tony and Annie Garmey [mailto:horizonracing at msn.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Oktober 2010 22:14 An: toodamnfunky at comcast.net; tr4racing at googlemail.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: RE: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 15 01:49:27 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:49:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racer in my area (Geneva, Switzerland) Message-ID: <001e01cb6c3d$7f01a450$7d04ecf0$@camoletti.ch> Dear FOT! When you invited my to the group (thank you again!) one of you kindly replied to welcome and indicate there was a Triumph racer in Switzerland or nearby the Geneva area. However I accidentally deleted the email while doing an inbox clean up. I cannot remember the member's name who sent it to me. If you could resend it this will be greatly appreciated! Thank you ! Cheers Alex From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Oct 15 03:16:59 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:16:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101cb6c49$ba171b40$2e4551c0$@com> I would like to add a photo of the outside ring that would replace the dust cover. That ring is just there for closing the gap between caliper and piston. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_T17qmiZWUoA/TLXlpyetmYI/AAAAAAAAAig/1z9BsWlptkI/s800/D SC01167.JPG Cheers Chris From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 15 15:02:31 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:02:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge Update 10-14-2010 Message-ID: Amici, There are 64 badges paid for so far. I am hoping that by the next update there will be an actual sample badge in all its glory in my hand. I will take pictures and video of it when I get it. I might even mount it on a few grills that I have laying around. Cost is still $30 each DEADLINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Payment is either by PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) If you have sent payment and I haven't responded to you then please let me know. I love getting my mail and there is an envelope from someone I have never met sending me money. It is like Christmas all over again. thanks Chris From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 18 16:53:53 2010 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:53:53 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 18:18:27 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:18:27 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 18:29:28 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3358DA9D01FB4B2E83221AF53E591F1D@Bud> what's up?...there's no message... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimdonick" To: "friendsoftriumph" Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Help! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 18:45:38 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero><000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <8CD3D3E15859633-14A4-E6CB@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Chris, based on our history and the history of others, it seems like there may be a larger market than the racing community. count us in for a set of seals. we HAVE had a few leakers over the years. people are getting very tired of sub standard materials. thanks Chris. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Byrne To: MadMarx ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:53 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 19:05:12 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <9C733059D506495BBD6A9E6F1867FA45@INSPIRON> for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 18 19:42:51 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:42:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <20101018.214251.25227.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Rob, after washing them and letting them thoroughly dry, let the air out, seal them up in a black plastic bag and store them in a cool place in the basement. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Rob" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbcf7d547f1335e7f2st01duc From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 19:48:21 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:48:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 20:04:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:04:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Help! In-Reply-To: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time -----Original Message----- From: jimdonick To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Oct 18 22:44:32 2010 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home PC) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:44:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Madisonville, Kentucky. (on US 41, just south of town) Sorry I do not seem to have his exact address or number handy. kg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? > > TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jimdonick > To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph > > Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > > > not sure what happened. > Here's the original message > jimdonick > Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its > annual > Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) > Anyway. > I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an > original > hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever > the > heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such > items > might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre > hardtop > that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in > highschool > my > only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of > Northwestern > Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the > SALT > but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a > motor > in > for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete > top > would be greatly appreciated. > kind regards to all, > jimdonick > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: RACER BUD >>Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >>To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph > >>Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! >> >>what's up?...there's no message... >>Racer Bud >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "jimdonick" >>To: "friendsoftriumph" >>Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >>Subject: [Fot] Help! >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> fot at autox.team.net >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphs at consolidated.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3205 - Release Date: 10/18/10 13:34:00 From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 19 06:31:48 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4A IRS Frame Message-ID: <679419.54322.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI - Anyone going near Arlington Texas? I need a frame moved anywhere closer to the Midwest. Joe Alexander says that he might be able to pick it up in Oklahoma City. Thanks Dennis From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 19 07:24:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: It's an old record, but I show: Paul Oglesby 270/821-6351 Fax 825-8305 Bill Dentinger From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 07:29:59 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Oct 19 08:50:04 2010 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] John Wiley Message-ID: <005c01cb6f9c$eac87c60$c0597520$@org> Trying to get hold of John Wiley, last known in Toledo, Ohio. Races a TR4 on occasion. John, you out there? Anyone else have contact into. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 09:34:43 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:34:43 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Hi at all the rings material is EPDM 85. A set of 4 rings for one caliper will cost about 65-75$. If only the inner rings are needed then half the price, as then there are only two rings. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert M. Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 15:30 An: Geoff Byrne Cc: MadMarx; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From riverside at southslope.net Tue Oct 19 09:39:17 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1500 heads Message-ID: <000b01cb6fa3$d3d587d0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Thanks so much to all of you who responded. I have a plateful of food for thought! art de arnond From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 09:41:25 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, MadMarx wrote: > Hi at all > > the rings material is EPDM 85. Ah - I see specs for the temp range of -70 to +275F You source these from any o-ring supplier? Sorry, just being a nitwit today. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 10:24:34 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 10:30:10 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:30:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb6faa$e73429b0$b59c7d10$@com> The Bastuck company supply 4.1; 4.3; 4.55. I run a 4.1 for about 6 years now and I have a 4.3 on the shelf for tight tracks. Bastuck is about 30 km way from me. If I can be of any help. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Robert M. Lang Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 18:25 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 19 10:43:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: <4F.A9.12606.C8ACDBC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> I have a 4.875 set I don't need if anyone is interested. I'd like to get FMV -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Lang Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:24 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 11:34:18 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 12:13:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDDFCE.9030803@pobox.com> I purchased a 4.55 gearset from Revington TR. They currently list 3.45, 4.1, 4.3, 4.55, 5.25, 6.67. I'm not sure what you would want some of these for. I tried almost every combination in my TR3 and consider a 4.55 to be the ideal gearset with an OD, giving 3.73 in 4th OD. Isn't this what Kas used in the Sebring cars? On that note, I have the following for sale: TR3 rear axle, 4.55 ratio, Southwick axles, Salisbury LSD Overdrive transmission coupled to close ratio gearbox If interested, contact me off list. -Larry From harmug at us.ibm.com Tue Oct 19 12:40:34 2010 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 19 12:57:23 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101019185716.KBQ3990.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I run dual Isky valve springs on my modified 1296 engine. My rationale has always been that dual springs offer much greater spring tension to prevent valve float in the higher RPM range. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Harmuth Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 13:54:25 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDF771.6020204@pobox.com> This is a bit technical, but I will try to explain. The tension of a valve spring fluctuates at its natural frequency. This often called "Spring Surge". Generally the two springs will have different natural frequencies, which helps to smooth out the magnitude of these fluctuations. If you use a single spring with the same overall tension as the two springs there is probably not much of a weight difference. The other advantage of two springs is that you can get a stronger spring force in a smaller space. On 10/19/2010 1:40 PM, George Harmuth wrote: > I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double > springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but > I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to > doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a > particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev > over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I > use single springs and if so any suggestions? > > thanks > mike > > 63 Spitfire From EDENMA at aol.com Tue Oct 19 14:06:04 2010 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:06:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again Message-ID: <1a69ff.3b98ede1.39ef542c@aol.com> Mike: We (my son was driving the car at drivers school) spun my #2 rod bearing exactly the same way in our first outing this year. Car was running well Friday and Saturday, Sunday morning as I was preparing the car for the first session I noticed a very slight oil sheen in the top of the radiator while checking fluid levels. Checked the dipstick, capture tank, and popped the valve cover off to check for any evidence of water. Finding none, I sent him out with the idea I would re-torque the head as a precaution when he returned. Needless to say the car didn't finish the session. It appears, in our case, that the #2 bearing spun, allowing the piston to slightly tap the head causing it to break the seal on the steel shim head gasket. On the next down stroke it sucked a slug of water and on the upstroke compressed the water and blew out the side of the liner What I don't know is whether the bearing spun (1) due water contamination in the oil, (2) lack of lubrication to the # 2 rod bearing for some reason, or (3) faulty bearing(s). I too, was running a non-hardened stock crank, Carrillo rods, and Tri-metal bearings which I had purchased from BPNW. Same engine block with different crank suffered the same #2 rod bearing failure by previous owner. Same rod from previous failure had been reconditioned by Carrillo, pronounced good and reused. Block had been line bored and cleaned prior to reassembly. On tear down remaining bearings (Main and rod) showed either no damage or slight evidence on galling (probably due to water contamination of oil after the failure). #2 rod bearing was completely wiped out. Surprisingly little (but enough) damage was done to the crank journal. Cam bearings looked perfect. No other damage was noted. There was no blueing of the crank or any other indication that the bearing/journal was running hot. I am about to begin building two new engines this winter. I'm curious to know what bearings you used in your engine, and more importantly, anything else you may have noticed during both teardowns regardless of whether you think it was a factor in the failure or not. Cheers! Mark A. Eden 62 DP TR4 #357 64 HP Spitfire #42 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 14:59:49 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:59:49 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Oct 19 19:14:45 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:14:45 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ $13/Month Car Insurance? Insurance deal just passed now allows you to get car insurance for $13 http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbe42c6bf61d37d0edst02duc From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 19:27:51 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <803584.40062.qm@web46116.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Joe; thanks for the note. I should have clarified Oil temp was 210 water never went above 180. No oil in the water (that happened with the first motor). I am running around 10.5 to 1 compression so clearance is not really a problem. The engine looks really good except for the #2 connecting rod bearing. Weird Thanks!!! Mike ________________________________ From: Joe Boruch To: mike.mehl at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. SeeCollegeDegrees.com From mark at bradakis.com Tue Oct 19 22:10:34 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:10:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBE6BBA.3@bradakis.com> One slight advantage of double springs is that one can be wound left-handed, the other right. A minor detail, but it can help moderate the resonate frequencies and spring surge Larry mentioned. mjb. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:27:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:27:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine failure part 2 Message-ID: We install a bright red light high up on the dash in the driver's line >> of sight that turns on anytime the oil pressure in the main oil galley >> drops below 25 or 30 psi. The pressure switch should not be mounted >> directly on the engine where heat and vibration can cause them to fail, >> but should be on the firewall bulkhead where the flex hose joins the >> solid metal pipe that goes to the oil pressure gauge. >> We set the oil pressure as per the factory manual to 70 psi at 2000 >> rpm with the engine oil at least 160 degree F. With a good oil pump and >> the clearances mentioned above, you should see 90 psi at 6,000 rpm with >> oil up to 200 - 210 degrees with 20w/50 oil. If the oil temp gets to 230 >> it might drop to 80 psi but should never be any less it over 4,000 rpm. >> With all of these mods, there are some corners on some tracks where we >> have seen the low oil pressure light come on for a second or so. These >> have always been high "g" left hand corners that come after hard braking >> zones, ie turn 5 at Laguna Seca, turn 5 at Thunderhill Raceway where you >> brake very hard from about 70 mph while going up a steep hill ,down to >> about 25 mph, then turn left over a severe crest &then go steeply >> downhill while accelerating and turning to the right. The light comes on >> just at the as the car crests the hill. So there is something going on >> in the pan when performing this maneuver with a left turn that does not >> happen then you brake and then turn right! I have yet to understand >> exactly what is going on but the condition certainly exists. With good >> Penn Grade 1 race oil, I have left my foot in it while the red light has >> been on for the second or so and no seen any signs of failure on the >> bearings afterwards. There is still probably 20 psi of oil pressure in >> the main galley and the high quality oil is still able to maintain film >> strength. I have not used an acusump or any other form of supplemental >> oil supply. >> In four or five race weekends with lots of track time and engine RPM >> from ,4,000 to 7,000 , the bearings should NO WEAR that you can measure. >> The surface of the bearing turns darker in color than they were when new, >> but we generally see NO surface "pulling" or damage to the bearing >> surface. >> >> Greg Solow > The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:25:33 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:25:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Engine failure agian part 1 Message-ID: Over the years, it has been our experience that if a TR-4 type engine >>> experiences oil starvation for any reason, number 2 rod bearing will be >>> the first to fail. Exactly why number 2 should fail and not number 3 rod >>> bearing, I cannot say, but none the less that is what happens. >>> To help prevent this what we do is use great oil. We like PennGrade 1 >>> racing 20/50 best. We have also successfully used Torco and Chevron Delo >>> oils. >>> We set the main bearing clearance at .0025 to .00275". The crank will >>> flex at high RPM and high power outputs. By giving it more clearance, it >>> can flex without rubbing on the bearing surfaces. On one high output >>> engine, increasing the main bearing clearance from .00175 to .0025 >>> lowered the engine oil temperature when running on an engine dyno over 50 >>> degrees F. In fact, we had to shut off the oil cooler blowers and put and >>> insulating shroud around the allow oil pan to get the engine oil >>> temperature up over 180 degrees F while running on the dyno! >>> We set the rod bearing clearances at .003" when using "carrillo" style >>> machined steel rods. We have used more with race prepared stock rods >>> which do not stay as round as the aftermarket rods do. We prefer to use >>> Vandervell VP-2 rod bearings for racing. They are the best. >>> Unfortunately, for the most part there are not many left around and they >>> have been out of production for many years. We did have ACL make up 100 >>> sets of trimetal .010" undersize rod bearing a number of years ago. We >>> still have some left. They do not have the load carrying capacity of the >>> Vandervells, but they are the next best thing, and they are available. >>> We drill out the oil holes in the two center main bearing shells so >>> that they are the same size as the holes in the block that feed them. >>> We modify the oil intake hole in the main bearing journal by grinding >>> a "leading" scoop the same width as the oil groove in the main bearing. >>> When looking at the crank from the front, with the oil hole in the main >>> bearing journal facing up, all of the grinding should be to the right >>> side of the oil hole. As the crank rotates, you want it to scoop oil out >>> of the reservoir of oil that is in the groove in the bearing and force it >>> down the drillings toward the rod bearings. ( Volkswagen 1600 air cooled >>> engine cranks were manufactured this way, it wasn't my idea!) >>> We modify the oil pickup so that it's opening faces down against the >>> bottom of the oil pan, with about 3/16" clearance between the bottom of >>> the pan and the screen on the bottom of the pickup. >>> We measure the oil pressure in the main oil galley running down the >>> side of the block, not at the original location at the oil filter head. >>> This is very important. The original measuring point is right at the >>> output from the oil pump. You want to measure the pressure just before >>> the feed to the bearings so if there were a blockage anywhere in the >>> system before the bearings, you would see it. The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 20 02:41:33 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:41:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01cb7032$9aa01810$cfe04830$@com> I run 0.0027 for the mains because of crank flexing. The good thing with the smaller rod bearing clearance is that you don't need much oil to lube them. I found that with the stock suggested clearance the rod bearings started to get thirsty at revs beyond 4000. I found the oil pressure dropped from 90 to 70 PSI at 6000 rpm. With that small clearance the pressure remained at 90-95 even at hot days. And after a race I have 50-60 PSI at idle speed (1300 rpm). Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jim Gray [mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 02:52 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Chris, What kind of clearance do you use at the main bearings ? Thanks, Jim Gray # 102 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:00 PM To: 'Triumph Friends of' Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 08:42:24 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:42:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. Thanks, Jim G From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 21 08:55:36 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:55:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Greg Solow Message-ID: THank you Greg for your input on # 2 rod bearing failures......That is what the FOT is about !! From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 21 08:57:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:07 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F7A16156-760-15CB@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:11 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 11:08:49 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 11:16:59 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: In an admittedly shameless self plug - DashWare which can be downloaded at www.chasecam.com allows comparing data from any logger. So you can compare your traqmate data to AiM etc. -Mark On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, wrote: > FoT > > Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to > compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > > Thanks, > > > > Jim G > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/markvaden at gmail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 21 11:17:58 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:17:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 race car and parts for sale Message-ID: <4CC075C6.1070503@pobox.com> I have the following for sale: - TR3 vintage race car - close ratio gearbox mated to A type overdrive set up for racing - complete rearend, 4.55 ratio, Salisbury LSD, Southwick axles For more information see www.tildentechnologies.com/TR3 or contact me off list. I have had this car for sale for a while, but until now I haven't made much effort to sell it. If the rearend and overdrive/transmission don't sell as is, I will be parting them out. -Larry From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 15:35:31 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:35:31 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <001001cb7167$e4309370$ac91ba50$@com> Hmmm....looks like stoneage equipment to me. I use a stock fuel gauge for measuring. I don't even have to move out of the car to know how many (or much) fuel I have. Chris :-) -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von toodamnfunky at comcast.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Oktober 2010 19:09 An: jhouathome at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Data logging OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 17:26:50 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:26:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Message-ID: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:31:44 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:31:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Here it is !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101021233147.A393B187647@autox.team.net> Now that's funny, thanks for the laugh bill. That reminds me, I need to pull my turbo encapulator this winter. I noticed a little immodial interaction with the panacoptic marzel vanes in Topeka. Hopefully it's just the reciprocating dingle arm rubbing on the phase detractor. Jim G _____ From: BillDentin at aol.com [mailto:BillDentin at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:01 PM To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: JHOUATHOME at aol.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net Subject: Fwd: Fw: Here it is !!! Of course, I'm just pullin your chain, but if you like things technical, take a gander at this video the rabid dentist sent me. Bill or is it, rapid dentist. It's one of the two. From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:57:42 2010 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > >> FoT >> >> <<> to >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >> >>> >> >> > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > running > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > Bill (Damdinger) > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Oct 21 20:53:14 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Lee Gaskin Morgan Plus 4 Message-ID: A club member is considering pruchasing a TR4 engined Morgan owned and raced by a Lee Gaskins out of SC. He asked if I have heard of him and I have not. Does anyone from the southest know of him and /or the car. The buyer is curious, and tempted but needs a litttle push before he jumps into vintage racing. If he hears good things about the car I think he'll bite. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 21:17:40 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:17:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 22:22:01 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:22:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 22:45:34 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:45:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Message-ID: <285161.82438.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Chris, Thanks for sharing your experience. Your steel work reminds me of the angle iron holding my tranny lip, where the clutch solenoid attaches. Whoever had this tranny before me did something wrong and broke that section of lip off, the part where the solenoid attaches. A bit of small angle resolved the issue for the past 10+ years. Jack -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx [mailto:tr4racing at googlemail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:22 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; 'Jack Brooks' Subject: AW: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 21 23:46:45 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 00:46:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 22 03:49:16 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:49:16 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Gentlemen, Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly drew up on my request. Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as it is 1.7 meg. If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the members of the FOT? I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. Cheers! Alex [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 22 06:14:20 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:14:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401A80646@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> We're looking forward to it. Fingers crossed - brand new motor. We're hoping it all works as planned! Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri Oct 22 00:46:45 2010 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From BillDentin at aol.com Fri Oct 22 08:55:08 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:55:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <1ef17.567768d5.39f2ffcc@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2010 12:47:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jason at multivintage.com writes: > This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" > for > Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars > entered > in the race. This will be a good one to watch. > Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing > me > (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in > a > sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to > any > FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr > attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of > racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! > Amici... Jason's choice of the word 'craziness' is almost less than descriptive. Horsepower, Performance, and Talent disparity in vintage race groups is not uncommon, but forty-five particularly eclectic cars in the Vintage/Historic race group on Blackhawk Farms' two mile circuit tomorrow strikes me as a potential CLUSTER F*CK, and caused me to pull my originally entered Tornado Talisman in favor of my trusty old TR3. The Talisman is enclosed, slow, and lacks necessary rear view options. At least in my TR3 I'll be able to see who hits me. The V/H group is full of 911s and far more modern iron than I am used to. Scott Barr's 'real race' group is full of Miatas (we all know how nice they play). His race will clock 100 miles. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, is racing his Lola T-598 S2 in another 100 miler. The weather report adds another degree of difficulty to the mix: Saturday Cool and Rain; Sunday Cool and Showers. But let's face it, it could be worse. This track lies on the boarder between Illinois and Wisconsin. I remember LOOOONG RACE events were we had SNOW. This is the 40th LOOOONG RACE event, and I have probably run 75% of them (since they started adding 'vintage' sessions. This is a GREAT family event, with Trick or Treating for the kids (around the track to the corners) on Saturday, and the infamous Big Wheel races out on the front straight on Sunday. After watching the adults race all week end, it is a joy to behold the kids race their bikes, trikes, and big wheels out on the track on Sunday. This event is a great way to end the season here in the Midwest. And, of course, Wine and Cheese Lite in the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team garages on Saturday night. Bill Dentinger From cofrog at q.com Fri Oct 22 10:29:02 2010 From: cofrog at q.com (Dan Forgey) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:29:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: All of you guys put your sticks away and behave...... > From: stutzmans at comcast.net > To: BillDentin at aol.com; toodamnfunky at comcast.net; fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > > > > >> FoT > >> > >> << >> to > >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > >> >>> > >> > >> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > > running > > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > > > Bill (Damdinger) > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cofrog at q.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:40:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: <1165269D-B86E-4B55-A8B4-F46661AA3FF2@bnj.com> I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Oct 22 10:41:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:41:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC1BEBE.2050605@pobox.com> The J type overdrive alone is not expensive, because they were used in Volvo's up into the 90's. I see them on ebay for as little as $100. However, in order to mate it to a TR transmission, you need the output shaft, adapter and a few other parts. I believe someone is casting the adapter, check Quantum Mechanics. On 10/21/2010 10:17 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:43:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:43:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! Message-ID: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? I just sent this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. My driving seems to have deteriorated a bit this year. I think I'm not getting enough track time. I might look for an SCCA ride. Maybe pick up an old Radical and beat the crap out of myself. I tried a Miata two years ago and enjoyed the group--what a bunch of bastards. Right up my alley. and the end result was this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:44:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark part deux Message-ID: Obviously doesn't happen all the time, but the reformatting is funky too. From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:47:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:47:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Hi Alexandre, I'd like a copy of the .pdf -- and yes, the list server will zap the attachment. You can embed a link to it instead, if you send me a copy I'll set that up for you. Bill On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > Gentlemen, > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly > drew up on my request. > Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our > standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer > horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while > having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) > Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as > it is 1.7 meg. > If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the > members of the FOT? > I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. > Cheers! > Alex > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 22 17:54:39 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge update 10-22-2010 Message-ID: <7928218F-1826-4FEC-9840-DA9D54EAEB7C@aol.com> Amici, Nothing new. Just a few more badges sold. Total is now 65. Price is still $30 Payment is either PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) DEAD LINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Thats only 10 days away. thanks 'Chris From jerrybarr at charter.net Sat Oct 23 19:33:51 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Short race Message-ID: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 23 19:34:16 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:34:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: can someone help me identify the differences with various steeering arms used on TR4-6 (this is the part that bolts onto the vertical link and the rod end taper fits into) accoording to the parts books, these arms differ on every model TR4-6. they all bolt up to the same upright and all have the same tapered hole for the rod end, so what are the differences ?? not having several to put side by side, I suspect they may be different offsets/heights to change bump steer characteristics. thanks, Terry O'Beirne, Australia Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, 4305 Queensland, AUSTRALIA ph 07-32018866 fax 07-32017079 www.roadandtrack.net.au From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sat Oct 23 19:43:46 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:43:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> References: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> Message-ID: Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ > seacubeco at aol.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 24 12:14:59 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:14:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] James Gray Payment for Badge Message-ID: <164265C3-7899-45B5-83EF-D253AE2B316A@aol.com> James, I received your payment. Thanks From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 24 15:57:53 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:57:53 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: thanks to the various people who emailed me privately about this i have confirmed the steering link arms, top wishbone, and steering rack ends all changed dimensions when they moved to 3 degree caster. The factory TR4A book gives dimensioned drawings of the parts, early & late, so I can now identify them what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, and the repair manuals make no mention of this the steering arms for zero & 3 degree caster are quite different to look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the improvements Terry O'Beirne From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 16:15:56 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:15:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 17:28:46 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Message-ID: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > tutorial on how to > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block The document can be downloaded from: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c Merci, Alexandre! Randall From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 24 17:41:58 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:41:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <424c8.4f23fdde.39f61e46@aol.com> Thanx for posting that. It's precisely what I wanted to do on the GT6 for years but never got around to it. I'd heartily recommend a similar mod for the GT6 racers out there...Steve In a message dated 10/24/2010 4:29:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, TR3driver at ca.rr.com writes: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 24 19:07:28 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 18:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <489098.84937.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Jerry and his son Scott were sharing Scott's Spitfire Saturdaay at the Midwest Council's Lonnng Race. Jerry went out for the first session and came in at the end saying he couldn't shift. Issue was diagnosed as three broken new ARP flywheel bolts where at least on of the bolt heads was jammed between the disk and pressure plate. Short race weekend. Still it was nice hanging out at the last race of the year, at least around here. Weather was rainy at times but mostly nice. --- On Sat, 10/23/10, christopher bock wrote: From: christopher bock Subject: Re: [Fot] Short race To: "Jerry Barr" Cc: ".Triumph List" Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 8:43 PM Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/seacubeco at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ehusmann53 at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 25 00:30:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:30:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000b01cb740e$2a356e60$7ea04b20$@com> I like the short early TR4 arms most. They give a very crisp steering - like a gokart. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Randall Gesendet: Montag, 25. Oktober 2010 00:16 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 25 09:13:05 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:13:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. -Larry On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to > look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the > improvements > > Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:22:47 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:22:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Message-ID: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Not really, bump steer is a kind of random thing. The only way to eliminate it completely is to have the suspension and the steering arms moving in exactly the same way as the suspension bumps. If the steering arms were parallel to the upright and in the plane of the wheel then changing their length would have no effect on bump steer, but they aren't, so changing them varies both the angle of the tie rod and the outer pivot point. It's almost a cut and try approach, it's hard to figure out which way to go without a simulation since so many parameters change. Having other arms available is a godsend. I had to make arms for Peyote to get it close. I have a pretty good collection of stock arms. You can also reverse the arms side to side. Offers lots of combinations. With a drag link type of steering it is difficult to change other parameters. You can bend the link arms, and with a lot of work you can move the steering box and drag ling up or down. With a rack it's a little easier--you can shim the rack up and down. TR4 racks are too wide, the pivot points for the tie rods are outside the plane of the upper and lower suspension pivot points. Not an easy fix, I haven't found any rack that really narrow enough for these cars. Peyote has a rack from an old Isuzu station wagon that comes pretty close. The good news is that you can minimize bump steer within the range of suspension travel, but with a steering system so far from optimal you can't really eliminate it. You also have to watch camber gain at the same time, but that only comes from the relationship of the upper and lower suspension arms. Shortened upper arms can give a lot of camber gain. On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:13 AM, Larry Young wrote: > Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. > -Larry > > On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >> the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to >> look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the >> improvements >> >> Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:38:56 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:38:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Message-ID: Oh, and I forgot to mention that changing the spacers on the steering arms is a nice, easy, small increment way to adjust for less bump. It moves the outer pivot point in or out by a small amount and so changes the bump steer. I've said this before, but for completeness: You want the pivot points of the upper and lower arms and the steering link to line up in the same plane, for both outer and inner pivots, and you want an imaginary line drawn through all three arms (upper and lower suspension and steering link) to intersect the same point. But since the only real way to achieve that is to start with a clean sheet of paper, varying any of those parameters--the inner and outer pivot points and the angle of the arms--will change bump steer. Since you're fiddling with an existing system the best you can do is play with those parameter you can change and see if you can minimize bump steer within the limits of suspension travel. From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Mon Oct 25 16:24:35 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:24:35 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: Steering rack length...... thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front suspension component differences there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in various kit cars. I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in changing bump steer in any triumph http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html Terry O'Beirne From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 25 17:24:32 2010 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (William Collins) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:24:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Koni adjustment on '72 Spit Message-ID: Just got my Series 80-1389 Konis back from True Choice after rebuilding and adding 30%. They are going on my '72 spit racer with GT6 suspension. We think the front springs are at least the 330's, but Ed Barnard suspects they're a little heavier. The rear is the latest version for the 1500 that Ed desprung and bushed for racing loads. The diff is welded. Wondering how many turns off full hard to set these things to start. Anybody got a thought? Bill Collins From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 17:35:10 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:35:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <034467AF-B159-4BD4-923A-6B512981F2FB@charter.net> From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 18:02:01 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice article, very useful. On a TR3 the width of the upper pivots is about 432mm and the lower pivot is 585mm, so you can see the challenge of fitting a Triumph rack when the narrowest is 650mm. For the street car I'm building I did indeed use a TR4 rack--at least I assume it is, I bought the kit from Moss. I roughly measured it, it looks to be 650 mm wide and is 2.5 turns lock to lock. I anticipate doing a bunch of fiddling to minimize bump steer. I considered shortening the rack, but I figured I'd play with it a while before I take that step. I don't recall the width of Peyote's rack, but it's quite a bit narrower than the TR4. At the height I have it installed in Peyote (roughly midpoint between the upper and lower arms) it's pretty close to being in line with a line drawn through the upper and lower inner pivots. Pat Starr installed it initially, but I changed the mounting height and had it narrowed a little further in my efforts to eliminate bump steer. As I recall I had an inch taken off both ends. I didn't dare go much further. I also had flat steering arms made. As it turns out it has some positive ackerman though I wasn't paying much attention to that when I was fiddling. On Oct 25, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 18:38:09 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:38:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Scott says try plain text so here we go. From billdentin at aol.com Mon Oct 25 20:03:36 2010 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:03:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers In-Reply-To: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> References: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Message-ID: <8CD42C922937106-758-66D1@webmail-d036.sysops.aol.com> <<< Scott says try plain text so here we go. >>> ______________________________________________ Jerry... Yeah! I think Scott's on to something. So far...that part's perfect. Bill (Damdinger) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:18:59 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <20101026061827.7D7F018765D@autox.team.net> Randall, thanks for the link! The bit at the end about checking clearance with clay cannot be emphasized enough. Don't ask me how I know. :( - Tony Drews At 06:28 PM 10/24/2010, Randall wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > > tutorial on how to > > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block > >The document can be downloaded from: >http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c > >Merci, Alexandre! >Randall >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:41:44 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:41:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101026064112.4E84718765B@autox.team.net> Wow. Another great article. We've really had some stellar technical content in the last couple of month on this list. I'm really pleased with that! Tony Drews At 05:24 PM 10/25/2010, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >Steering rack length...... >thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front >suspension component differences >there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 >family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by >machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in >various kit cars. >I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted >on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in >changing bump steer in any triumph >http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > >Terry O'Beirne >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 08:10:49 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:10:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD432EBA1D9576-F40-9520@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Mid-Ohio in 2002 THE VINTAGE TRIUMPH #83 SUMMER ISSUE SIX PAGES OF COVERAGE PLUS THE COVER....PHOTO OF CARS AND FOT. EIGHT CARS FROM BRITAIN. 45 entries.......results, etc, etc. (This event spawned the Kastner Cup series following a conversation with Kas) I found a number of copies of this historic FOT event. $10 by check or PAYPAL will get you a copy. Check in with me first to insure I have any left. First come...... Joe Alexander 645 1st ST Jesup, IA 50648 PayPal n197tr4 at cs.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 08:55:51 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:55:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 09:20:52 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:20:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE In-Reply-To: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> References: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD433880F6BA0D-1B04-42B15@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> yup....40th 50th now looking at 60th. MID-OHIO 1992 was the first big event we ran..Sean drove. That year was a milestone for the Alexanders......and all influenced by Wismer, Dentinger, Brick, et. al. MID-OHIO 2002 caused me to invite Kas, although I had never met him. Then the following year Kas & I initiated the Kastner Cup. Magical Stuff. Of course this all led to Kas writing 3 books with a 4th Book just days away from printing...in Iowa, BTW. Mid-Ohio 2002 in the VTR magazine is timely reading as it sets the stage for 2012. Not that far away....maybe 18 months or so. Planning is well advanced on the 60th Anniversary of the Sports Triumph. 50 Triumphs at this event will not be an unreasonable expectation and it will be very international. But wait....could Laguna Seca be in our future first? This has been announced for June of 2011, but details are still being worked on. Joe Alexander -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: n197tr4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 10:48:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:48:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250 HOOD AND TRUNK BADGES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD4344CB5CC847-598-357@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> I'd say these BADGES are exceptional and they are on eBay. Thought I'd better let the FOT know just in case. From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 10:59:01 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Racer Premiums @ The Loooong Race Message-ID: <4eb28.6fde8d5e.39f862d5@aol.com> Amici... Chicagoland Sports Car Club (Midwestern Council) gave out a bunch of racer premiums at the Loooong Race at Blackhawk Farms Raceway this past weekend. These included a large event poster, a thermal beer can holder, some Halloween hand out candy, and even a pocket comb. The poster is particular nice because it pictures a fine TRIUMPH TR4 race car at speed and getting ready to lap an MGA. Very nice! I don't have enough hair left to make the pocket comb worth keeping, so I'll probably put it on eBay. Bill (Damdinger) From rfdeanes at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 15:18:34 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is good stuff, nice article. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track < enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au> wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:56:00 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:56:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR national convention at Jekyll Island Marty From budscars at comcast.net Tue Oct 26 18:14:56 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video References: Message-ID: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in 1969...Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w > > > Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR > national convention at Jekyll Island > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From bownes at seiri.com Tue Oct 26 18:20:47 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> References: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Message-ID: Awesome. Nice to see the old girl still has it in her. Surprised the front roll hoop got removed. That car is great fun. Bob On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:14 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in > 1969...Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" > To: "FOT" > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w >> >> >> Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR >> national convention at Jekyll Island >> >> Marty >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net >> > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Tue Oct 26 20:46:29 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] John Frifirici Badge payment Message-ID: John, Your payment has been received. Thank you Chris From jmwagner at greenheart.com Wed Oct 27 11:59:53 2010 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:59:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1960 MGA Roadster Racer - $11500 (Mt Morris) Message-ID: <4CC86899.1040705@greenheart.com> Just thought this might be of interest... found while surfing... http://buffalo.craigslist.org/cto/2027408160.html From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 27 23:58:30 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:58:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! In-Reply-To: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> References: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CC91106.6000502@bradakis.com> First off, let me apologize for the delay. I've gotten WAY behind in a number of things, many related to Triumphs, both real and virtual. Sorry folks, but I will be working on getting caught up on things. Bill Babcock wrote: > Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? > Most likely it is the demime filter that each Team.Net message passes through before getting sent to the list. The filter I am using currently seems to have some other issues. One of these days I plan to try out using the demime filters built into Mailman. For those who don't know, the filters turn HTML formatted mail into plain text, strip attachments and such. I feel that is needed on all the email lists, it isn't an issue with forum posts. But at the moment I have other priorities demanding my time, so it might be a while. Maybe the FOT list will be a good testing ground when I do get to it. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 28 00:37:08 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:37:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC91A14.4020409@bradakis.com> Nice. You know, since I couldn't make it to Heartland Park in August I should have reset my sights on the VTR meet. I haven't been to one since Breckenridge. The 2011 convention will be quite a bit closer, perhaps I'll have a driveable Triumph by then. The glacial pace at which I've been progressing lately on various projects, though, might preclude having a decent car by then. I would love to have Killer back on the road (and track) again for next summer, though. Too much time at the computer, not enough time in the garage! mjb. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 07:56:04 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:56:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT, Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. Jim G. From igofaster at att.net Thu Oct 28 08:32:32 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <385051.78802.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 11:38:44 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:38:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. Same head and carbs. Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 13:12:59 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:12:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Jim, Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the pants dyno ? I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. I do plan to buy his valves though. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: "fot" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:38:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > B B Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. B In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. B At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. B I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. B Same head and carbs. B Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". B At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. B The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. B Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > B B -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 13:33:36 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:33:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9D010.6020600@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 3:12 PM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > > Jim, > > Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't > mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the > pants dyno ? > > I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. > > I do plan to buy his valves though. > > Jim G. > Sorry Jim, the only dyno w/i 5 hours of here closed just before I could get there. With this setup, and the carbs still pig-rich, I can light the tires in second gear. Couldn't to that before. I haven't been in a drag race with my Saturn SL2 but I'm sure the TR would leave it in the dust. jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 28 17:11:24 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc From jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com Thu Oct 28 18:43:05 2010 From: jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com (john preston) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:43:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Bobby, I have always used Rotella to break in an engine...high compression full race and regular street engines. Rotella has a higher Zinc and Magnesium content that helps to bed in bearing surfaces gradually during the initial warm up....how and why I do not know..gnomes I guess. I ran each engine at idle or slightly elevated until warm then ran it up the tach midway...NO RELINE. Then swapped it our for Valvoline or Mobile full race. Then run very easy on the first few laps, and push it, but not red line on the last. Then go great guns on the next session. It has worked so far. There is a dyno shop about 5 mins from my house and they will NOT run a new engine on the dyno without Rotella. Good luck, John P > From: jaboruch at netzero.net > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 +0000 > To: igofaster at att.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in > > Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle > (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change > the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that > for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as > what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track > session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that > the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it > would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it > to speed, but so far have not had a problem. > > The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do > about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the > temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than > running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: FoT Triumph > Subject: [Fot] engine break-in > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) > > After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I > finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm > registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs > break > in oil. > So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? > run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should > I > run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home > after > (optimistically) I run through the weekend. > Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth > for > 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 > minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... > > All the best, > Bobby Whitehead > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hate Carrying Pet Food? > Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 19:10:11 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:10:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by then. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:11 PM To: igofaster at att.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Oct 28 23:04:21 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:04:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home Message-ID: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Anyone got a use for a TR3 engine block? I've got several of them that need to find new homes soon ... if no one wants them they'll go to the scrap yard. I've got kind of a storage crisis, caused by the loft in my garage collapsing. (No, the blocks weren't in the loft, but I need to clear out the space below so I can replace the rafters.) Not sure of condition, or even how they came to be in my possession (they've been laying around for at least 20 years), but there is nothing obviously wrong with the one I have out now except some surface rust and maybe a broken stud or two. Main caps & liners (83mm, might be original) are included, pretty everything else that can be removed has been. I would prefer local pickup, but we can probably work something out if you want to pay for shipping. Randall From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:07:43 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emery ville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101029060716.AB8C2187645@autox.team.net> My head has stock diameter valves and was a comptune flow, but uncle jack got even more out of it. Wish I had asked him what he did. I do not have the flow numbers, but all work was verified on a flow bench. With the 87 mm liners, I have as good a flow as we got with the oversized valves. What happens is that the valve is so close to the edge of the liner that it shrouds the outside of the valve and effectively reduces its diameter. If you are running 89 mm or larger liners you'll have a better chance of gaining an advantage with the oversized valves. I agree they are works of art. The stuff that seems to OBVIOUSLY improve flow does not actually improve flow. There are certain key areas in the port that really matter, unfortunately I don't know exactly where they are. - Tony At 08:56 AM 10/28/2010, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: >FoT, > >Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to >the big valves > >so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > > > > >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > >"optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > >"this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size >of the inlet valves does > >NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > >I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > >I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > >Jim G. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:30:06 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:30:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> Message-ID: <20101029062931.9E217187669@autox.team.net> Oops - too long, forgot to . The 20 to 25 minutes at 2000 to 2500 (with high zddp oil) is key to the cam and lifters. I do that with every rebuild in the garage. That's usually a great time to have a beer to celebrate and to let me neighbors know that I still have the race car. - Tony Drews At 08:10 PM 10/28/2010, Norlin Engineering wrote: >>My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as >>I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 >>rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin >>oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his >>recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and >>they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by >>then. >> >>Jim From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 29 00:36:43 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:36:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home In-Reply-To: References: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <049801cb7733$a6efc540$0301a8c0@randall> > Randall, where are you located? My apologies, should have included that. I (and the blocks) are located near the Long Beach, CA airport, about 20 miles south of Los Angeles. Randall From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Fri Oct 29 00:52:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: Message-ID: If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 29 06:27:05 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grill badge update 10-29-2010 Message-ID: <2D303FA5-EE1B-4174-BB4E-C19FC235F3C6@aol.com> Amici, Today is Friday and I have news! There is only the weekend to decide if you want one or not! But that isn't all the news I have. I will be getting the first sample badge this weekend. I will have actual pictures and I will be posting a video on YouTube of it Monday night. There are 74 badges sold do far. I am pushing the deadline to Wednesday at 9am! That should give everyone time to see the video and ask for pictures. I don't have a place to host the pics so just ask for them if you want them. Payment is paypal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia ave, Vineland, NJ 08361). If mailing please let me know so i can have an accurate count. Thanks From gasket.works at gte.net Fri Oct 29 07:42:47 2010 From: gasket.works at gte.net (gasket.works at gte.net) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:42:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 29 08:03:24 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:03:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire engine with clean oil through it. A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared to start-up bearing wear. On Oct 29, 2010, at 9:42 AM, gasket.works at gte.net wrote: Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 29 09:40:48 2010 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> References: , <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>, <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: > An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill > the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an > air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire > engine with clean oil through it. > A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared > to start-up bearing wear. Doesn't have to be expensive. We made one from one of those pump-up pesticide sprayers and appropriate hose and fittings. John H. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:09:06 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:09:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:28:14 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bearing lubrication Message-ID: Just a clarification about bearing lubrication. The actual oil film that keeps the crankshaft and camshaft from touching the main, rod or cam bearings is not the oil pressure generated by the oil pump. The oil pump supplies oil to keep the space between the crankshaft and the bearings full. As the crankshaft rotates, it does not remain in the center of the bearing clearance space, but it is constantly being pushed around in that space as it rotates by the loads that are applied to it. As it moves around, it pushes a "wedge" of oil just in front of the spot where the maximum load is applied at that moment. The crankshaft "rides up" as it were, on that wedge oil. That wedge of oil is what keeps the crank separated from the bearings. If the supply of oil is interrupted, for even and instant, the wedge or oil is lost. Then all that is separating the metal parts is the "film strength" of the oil in question.. The film strength is determined by the type of base stock of the oil, and the additive package. The viscosity of the oil plays a part in this to a certain extent also. Thicker oil is harder to force out from between the moving parts than thinner oil is, but the viscosity is probably more related to the clearances between the parts. With tighter clearances, you can run thinner oil, but tighter clearances require more rigid and stiffer parts that will not flex or bend. After market steel rods are not only much stronger than the originals, but are much stiffer, and hold a rounder hole for the rod bearings. But due to the 3 main bearing crank, the lack of journal overlap & the stroke of the engine, the crank is not very rigid, no mater who made it. Under the loads of high horsepower & high revs, it moves and bends all over the place. A friend who used to work on AA Fuel drag Chrysler Hemi engine told me they had terrible problems wiping out the main bearings because of crank and block flex until they gave the main bearings .010" or so clearance and used 70 SAE weight oil to keep the pressure up. This let the crank and block move around without actually touching one another. Greg Solow The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:38:55 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:38:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: <001801cb7741$02ae7b80$080b7280$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <1CCE8B51FCC348C6B307A4FB3E29607C@your89d26e0447> You may be able to contact Shell Oil technical services in Europe..They could tell you the Zinc and Phosphorus content of the Shell Rotella oils available in Europe. I would bet they are the same as here. The "automotive Diesel" grade oils that are sold here, were formulated for European Diesel engine cars to meet the car manufacturer's specs. You are looking for over 1600 parts per million of Zink and 1300 parts per million of Phosphorus. Greg Solow From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Oct 30 02:17:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:17:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system In-Reply-To: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Message-ID: <001201cb780a$dc60f960$9522ec20$@com> To pressurize the oil after engine assembly I have a dummy oil pump drive which I rotate with a drill. When the oil pressure gauge shows 50 PSI then everything in my opinion is ready to fire up. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Greg Solow Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 08:09 An: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Betreff: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 30 06:46:18 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 07:46:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and lifter combination are run together? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Sat Oct 30 01:09:06 2010 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 30 08:21:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube Message-ID: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> We should let Greg answer, but when I reassemble an engine using existing cam and lifters I use a thin coating of cam lube and pump oil all over it. I've used the stuff in the little yellow tub that Ken G. sends out with his camshafts and also bought the CompCam cam oil for this purpose. Then I just worry about oil pressure prior to startup, then seating the rings. Greg noted how he does not use Moly paste on bearings. I think this is a worthy thread on it's own. I have the Redline white assembly lube, the moly paste, and a couple of brands of the sticky red goo that I use differently depending on the situation. I think I have been using them incorrectly and I'd like to learn what is correct. Fot example, I use the red goo for bearings on new engines but when I replace bearing in situ I have been using the moly paste because it doesn't run all over the place. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barr, Scott" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system > > >> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period >> each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and >> lifter combination are run together? >> >> Scott From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 15:02:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <5B6FEE5698B54CE3B1A238D9A1AC9B30@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <1464572A20A140A98E7CFB76533082A6@your89d26e0447> Most of the cam grinders supply assembly lube paste with their cams. We can supply tubes of Moly paste for under 10.00 a tube made by "Lubromolly" a German company. "HRL" used to supply it. There are a lot of different suppliers. they are probably all ok as long as the contain Molybdenum di Sulfide as the primary extreme pressure additive. We try to use this past on all iron to iron (cam & lifters) or steel to steel (rocker arm tip to the end of the valve stem, that are subjected to very high contact pressures and rubbing contact any time the engine has been freshly assembled, but especially when the parts are new and have never run together. For the rest of the engine, crank, rod bearings, piston to pin, rings, piston skirts, rod bush to pin, rocker shaft to rocker arms, oil pump, timing chain and tensioner, cam bearings and journals, front and rear seals, & so on, we think it is appropriate to use oil. Good 50 weight racing oil fortified with a liquid Moly supplement is what we use. We make it up by mixing a 50/50 mix of the engine oil with a good liquid engine oil supplement that contains a high amount of Moly. I do not have an exhaustive list of suppliers, but "Mr Moly" & "Slip", are two that I have used over the years with good success. It may be that in this application, the Moly may not make any difference, but that what is important is the liberal application of high quality 50 weight Racing oil. The 50 SAE oil will not drain away in storage, (unless it is for a very long time). It may be that the Moly just makes me feel good by its' presents! Using assembly lube paste where there are bearings (ie. actual bearing material like on a typical rod bearing) can destroy the bearing upon startup. The paste can be thick enough do to this. "Don't ask me how I know this!" A lot of "production engine rebuilders" use thin, lightweight bearing assembly grease on bearings in engines that might be "on the self" for a long time before they are used. "Lubriplate" makes an assembly lube grease that is lightweight and white in color for this purpose. It has a good reputation. I have never used it for this purpose. All the engines we do are usually put in service within a short time after they are assembled. The purpose of the Lubriplate assembly grease is to insure that the there is lubrication on all of the bearing surfaces if the engine has been in storage for over months or a year after it was assembled. Greg Solow PS Moly as an anti-friction, extreme pressure additive really works. Years ago we did a valve job on an air cooler VW. Just after putting the engine back into the car I drove it over Highway 17 past San Jose to Hayward.The first 30 miles I took it easy, below 55 mph. Then I speeded up to 65 mph on the flat in San Jose, 2 or 3 minutes at that speed and the #1 Exhaust valve would stick in the guide & the pushrod would fall out of position in the rocker arm. Probably excess heat. times I freed up the valve and put the pushrod back in position, each time 3 or minutes at 65 mph, the same thing happened. In Hayward I put in a bottle of "slip" Moly engine oil additive. 75 mph all the way back to Santa Cruz. The valve never stuck again. This was a permanent fix. The Moly really does "plate on" to the surface of the metals and creates a sacrificial sliding surface of molecules that prevents metal to metal contact. From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 31 07:00:40 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:00:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty From cwnfot at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 07:02:11 2010 From: cwnfot at gmail.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SEMA/AAPEX Las Vegas this week In-Reply-To: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> References: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <00cc01cb7904$374f11f0$a5ed35d0$@com> Anyone attending SEMA show in Las Vegas this Tuesday-Friday? I'll be there looking around Wednesday-Thursday (AAPEX on Tuesday), mostly the Central hall. I remember speaking with the Shell Answer Man a couple of years ago about the oils and our cams, way over my head! www.semashow.com Clark Clark W. Nicholls 1972 Stag (LE7931E), 1974 Spitfire (FM14571U) and 1 rusty GT6 needing new owner "Reality, it's not what you think." From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 07:54:17 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:54:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cb790b$7f1ae020$7d50a060$@com> I have no idea what is needed in USA but are forced to use overalls with 3 layer Nomex III. One piece overalls are very comfortable ande if you buy a black one you can work on the car if you have to. Take in account your presumable body weight as these suits don't expand and you have to buy a new one. A really hard job to force myself to stay with 74-76 kg. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von marty sukey Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 15:01 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 08:07:30 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Message-ID: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 08:14:12 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:14:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701cb790e$48344800$d89cd800$@com> For my part I do the re-torquing HOT. After the initial run of about 10-20 min and water at 185F I torque to the desired value. At hot my experience is that you can turn each nut about a quarter turn without loosen them before. And the good thing is that the torque at temperature is more even then. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von EDWARD BARNARD Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 16:08 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 31 08:58:47 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:58:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <076101cb7914$80d09050$0301a8c0@randall> > This > phenomenon probably has > a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. We called it "stiction", a contraction of "static friction". > In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set > the torque > wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the > bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? Definitely loosen and retorque, always. You should also endeavor to meet the torque spec with the nut/bolt still turning. If you let it stop just slightly short of the torque target, stiction will stop the fastener from turning to it's correct final position. I was taught that, if that happens, you must back off and torque again. This isn't so much an issue with the 'clicker' type torque wrenches (which BTW should be recalibrated often, especially if you are having problems), but could be with the beam (or dial) type torque wrenches where it is sometimes hard to watch the pointer while also pulling on the wrench. Randall From LimeyV8 at aol.com Sun Oct 31 08:59:38 2010 From: LimeyV8 at aol.com (LimeyV8 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: <107f9.43b3cd5d.39feec6a@aol.com> In a message dated 10/31/2010 10:22:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. I've only used a 1 piece 3-layer suit. I like it. With a 3-layer suit and no nomex undies, i think its a lot easier to get comfortable out of the car - wear gym shorts and a T-shirt under a 3-layer suit and you can get out of it pretty quick without having to go somewhere else and change. I suppose a 2-piece suit offers a similar advantage (take off the top only) but I'd rather get out of the whole thing. Note: so far, I've only raced in The Sunny South - in a northern climate YMMV I must add this: I think the Cool Shirt is the greatest invention since the wheel - in August at Roebling Road, the heat index was 107 degrees - the most comfortable place to be was in the car in a 3 piece suit, balaclava, and full face helmet - with ice water running thru the Cool Shirt. Cheers, Jack Mc From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 09:34:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:34:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> I prefer the three layer, as much because I have such a lousy memory as anything else. One thing to wash, one thing to remember. I have a lot of balaclavas and socks, mostly because I've forgotten them and needed to buy more at the track. I think if I had underwear I'd be going onto the track without it if I left it at home. Yes, I know tech inspection checks that and its my responsibility to comply. And your point is? On Oct 31, 2010, at 7:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 09:44:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:44:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67550585-DC87-4607-A4EC-F921FD28E586@bnj.com> for any fastener that has critical torque, the standard is to lubricate the threads initially and re-torque by loosening and then retightening, ensuring the fastener is moving when the torque spec is reached. The benefit of all this is to reduce the variables that might leave fasteners with varied actual clamping force. Make certain that you use a washer of proper hardness and lubricate the faces of the washer. Also understand that a fifty year old stud that didn't snap last time might never have been torqued with lubricated threads. You WILL reach a higher degree of stretch with lubricated threads. The prudent first step might be a full set of ARP studs. On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:07 AM, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Lister's: > I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. From igofaster at att.net Sun Oct 31 10:01:49 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659465.92486.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hey Edward and others... timely questions on head torque... Many thanks to Kas and all the others on information relating to 'break-in' of a fresh build... I have to go with Kas as he "has done it this way for 40 years" which was run the engine without blipping up to 2000 rpm for 15 minutes, stop, check everything, if all checks out, re-start run up to 2500 rpm for 5 minutes. Drain break-in oil, change filter, add oil and go racing.... pretty straight forward. Thank FoT and Kas for the treasured information and advice. Now... re-torquing head and adjusting the valves before we go racing. I'm running 10.5 : 1 compression with ARP head bolts and nuts. The service manual calls for head torque @ 65-70 lbs. Shouldn't I be torquing the head more with added compression and ARP hardware? All the best.... Sunday garage time. Beer. Football. Wrenching.... Bobby Whitehead ________________________________ From bownes at seiri.com Sun Oct 31 10:27:08 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 13:27:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some sanctioning bodies don't allow 2 piece suits. IMHO, 3 layer is the only way to fly. Quicker to get into, easier to deal with. Bob On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 31 12:58:41 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:58:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD474D2688B310-1DC4-118DD@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> perhaps the term you are looking for is BREAK AWAY TORQUE. -----Original Message----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:07 am Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 14:47:25 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Help with Mayflower parts Message-ID: <381049.67523.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: Hopefully you have stopped laughing at the subject line. Yes...I wrote Mayflower. Could Andy Mace and/or any other Mayflower owners on the list please email me? I am looking for good stateside sources for Mayflower parts. No, not lightened flywheels, billet rods or roller rockers. Rockers, what was I thinking? All joking aside, I have a Mayflower in the shop I need to order parts for. Thx -Ed- From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sun Oct 31 18:13:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:13:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: First make sure the head and block surfaces are clean and flat and that all of the threaded holes in the block have good clean threads. With studs, screw in the studs hand tight only. Do not tighten studs into a block unless you are sure that the bottom of the stud can hit the bottom of the hole. On a TR4 type engine, the studs do not have as long a bottom as the hole is deep, the stud will thread into the block stop where the threads on the stud end. If you continue to torque the stud into the block, the threads will try to pull the stud down into the hole and the stud will act like a wedge. It will cause the block to crack from the stud hole to whatever the nearest open area is. This is the reason most "tractor" blocks have cracks at the left rear stud hole going to the water jacket. There are improvements to be made here, but that is another storey. So just tighten the studs hand tight. We have found Permetex "Anti-Seize" when used as a lubricant on the head bolt thread, washers and nuts, does not change the torque that is applied, but does help prevent the "sticktion" mentioned in the earlier posts, so that it becomes less necessary to loosen the nuts first during retorquing. So on a TR-4, we apply the anti- seize to the fine threads on the top of the stud, to the top surface of the washer and to the inside of the nut and its' bottom surface. Tighten the nuts using a normal torquing sequence to about 30 lbs. ft., then 50, then 70, then we go to 85 or 90. We use this as a maximum torque. WE no longer torque heads to 105 lbs. ft. as we have not found it necessary, and it only leads to broken and stripped studs and head nuts. Run the engine to get it fully up to operating temperature, then retorque the head hot, to the same torque figure as the initial torque. With a solid steel head gasket, you can try again, but we have found nothing will tighten any more. With a composite (copper/asbestos) or other "non solid sheet" gasket, we hold retorque the head again after a couple of heat cycles. If you wish to loosen each nut before retorqing, there is certainly no harm in doing so. It is good to mark each nut with a scribed line before you loosen it up, so you can tell if it tightened to a position that is tighter than it was in the begining. If I try to tighten a nut or stud, and it will not move, then it is definitely good practice to loosen and then retorque. These general instructions ( except for the torque figures quoted) will hold true for any cast iron block and head combination. Using ARP moly based assembly lube paste on the head nuts and studs will require a reduction in torque of over 30% because it is so slippery. We have tried using the ARP lube and one time actually crushed the raised boss on a TR-4 head above the intake ports. The Anti-Seize works very well. On modern engines the manufacturers no longer (generally) use torque figures for head tightening. The engineers have calculated how much "stretch" on the head bolts they need to get the clamping pressure on the head gasket that they want, & the procedure is to torque to 20 lbs, ft.or less, then use a protractor and tighten the bolt a certain number of degrees from that point, the desired preload is calculated by the pitch of the threads of the bolt. This procedure avoids the variables caused by the friction of the bolt or nut on the threads or the washer and achieves a more consistent clamping force on the gasket. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 31 18:57:51 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics Message-ID: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Amici, I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till tonight. Here is a video link of it. Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT facebook page. The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight to this thing. I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had available at this time. The price is still ONLY $30. The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good count. I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep them coming! total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. Thank you for all who want this. Chris. From invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com Sun Oct 31 19:45:36 2010 From: invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com (James E Roelofs) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:45:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Check out my photos on Facebook Message-ID: <8bb78e0a42c860b20990ff8c7367caab@www.facebook.com> Hi Friends, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, James To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000090934512&k=Z6E3Y5WRUW4CZCFJPB63QUVZR3B 1X33NUWHYFD3BQT&r Already have an account? Add this email address to your account: http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=fot%40autox.team.net&c=e1d8b2 c84ed5c4bb2237931fde46d39f ======================================= fot at autox.team.net was invited to join Facebook by James E Roelofs. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please follow the link below to unsubscribe. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=74f522&u=100001791913713&mid=33826fdG5af37b48 aef1G0G8 Facebook, Inc. P.O. Box 10005, Palo Alto, CA 94303 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 19:53:49 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: Agree on the one piece three layer. I started with the two piece with undies - lots of bits and it all moves around. Went to a two layer one piece with undies - much better, but the new three piece is much better - and in my opinion actually cooler. I still carry the two piece with undies in addition to the three piece for really long weekends. Jim From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 21:16:32 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 00:16:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics In-Reply-To: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> References: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Message-ID: Very nice thanks for all the work please don't let mine touch the mg grill ----- Original Message ----- From: "christopher bock" To: "FoTTriumph" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics > Amici, > I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till > tonight. > > Here is a video link of it. > > Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut > and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" > > Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT > facebook page. > > The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two > studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to > length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired > length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together > or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight > to this thing. > > I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had > available at this time. > > > The price is still ONLY $30. > > The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will > be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. > If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good > count. > > I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep > them coming! > > total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. > > Thank you for all who want this. > > Chris. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net From grandwazoo at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 18:14:50 2010 From: grandwazoo at earthlink.net (Mike Jackson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:14:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Need help looking at "Car in a barn" in Ohio Message-ID: <11224903.1285978490254.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Oct 2 10:07:38 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:07:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Brew Swap Reminder Message-ID: VTR 2010 BREW SWAP 2 A second gathering of suds lovers will take place at this years national convention at Jekyll Island. It will be an informal gathering of friends to share your favorite home brew or that special microbrew that you like so well. The Brew Swap will take place on Monday October 18th in the Hospitality Suite at the host hotel. It will be a prelude to the welcome reception, from 4:30 to 6:30 ish. We will provide the room, tables and some glasses. Bring a six pack of your favorite cold special beverage and possibly some snacks that would go good with beer. Game plan is to mingle and sample others favorite beers. This will give us an opportunity to sample some home brews made by fellow Triumph enthusiast and possibly some micro brews from different parts of the country that you normally would not get to try. We did a brew swap 1 at the 2008 convention and all had a blast. This years brew swap will include a home brew competition so all you hops cookers out there get you best recipe fermenting and see how you do against your fellow brewers. Cheers, Marty Sukey From adcronin at ameritech.net Sat Oct 2 10:23:56 2010 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (Dan Cronin) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:23:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Change of email address Message-ID: <967A3E1B-484C-44E0-BFE8-0F2033DDB3C0@ameritech.net> 10/2 Marty Could not find a location using the info at the bottom of the list email (received) that would allow me to advise you of a change in email address. Looks like I somehow was sucecsfull in changing the TR list an that is now coming to my new address, but FOT---not! At any rate please help by eliminating old address: adcronin at ameritech.net to the new one: adcronin at mi.rr.com (we ditched DSL and went to cable. Thanks, Dan Cronin PS: can't seem to find password...... From walt at hot-tr6.com Sat Oct 2 11:34:50 2010 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:34:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far enough into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. Thanks Walt Hollowell Abq., NM _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 2 15:27:20 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:27:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] This TR3 doesn't look too bad Message-ID: <11A551AA-7E65-4147-9BD0-E7B6D5D828E3@earthlink.net> NFI, Just spotted it on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-1960-TRIUMPH-TR3-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f59a6363QQitemZ300473279331QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks ~Steve From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 1 02:38:23 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:38:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 In-Reply-To: <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> References: <000601cb5595$142cf5d0$3c86e170$@camoletti.ch> <8CD23B673068650-1B84-E366@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> Message-ID: <001701cb6144$02a68910$07f39b30$@camoletti.ch> Dear Friends of Triumph! It is a great pleasure and an honour to become part of your fellowship! I had read about it in Mr Kastner's book and wondered how to be part of it. Thank you to Joe for introducing me and to all of you for welcoming me aboard. May I briefly introduce myself: just turned 38 (15 Sep), business lawyer in Geneva (www.rrlegal.ch), Switzerland, old Europe. Aside that I restore classic cars and spend 20 hours /week in the workshop. Started with the TR3A my uncle gave me for my 20th birthday in 1992, which he bought in 63 and laid up in 71. Then you know the story, the quick recommissioning turned into a 11 years 4000 hours concours restoration. In the meantime I also restored a rare dry sump Lotus turbo esprit (1981-2). Last Winter I recommissioned a Bristol 400 1948 for a friend's son who got it for his 20th birthday too (but 17 years later). In 2007 the TR3 seized a valve (Engine rebuilt in UK, not by me, insufficient play at the guides). I took this opportunity to take the engine out and start the period competition preparation I long intended to do. This means that I upgrade the car to period mods only, so that it remains concours. I would not use parts or accessories that would not have existed at the time. I try to use original NOS or SH original parts (for instance for spot lights, additional switches, screen heater, cig lighter, vacuum gauge). Engine is built for long distance events. It is quite a long and painstaking work involving lots of research, to make sure I get and fit the right bits. For instance I got a Derrington wheel made by Moto-Lita (Moto Lita made them for Derrington in the 50s) with the original woods of the 50s they found under a pile in their shed, with the right number of rivets (the modern repro Derrington steering wheel of Moto Lita have more rivets and different woods). As another couple of examples, I fit a front sway bar, but an exact reproduction of the Stanpart factory option, including the exact brackets and hardware. I made a fake bar in copper tube, and made a drawing for production by a specialised company. Like this I have the exact sway bar and fittings the competition dept used. The modern bars are all different. Front competition springs are also made according to factory specs, as new uprated springs (while available in a variety of choices) are all RH helix and certainly more often than not are not shot peened, given the price they are sold) while the factory competition ones were LH helix and shot peened (the stock ones had a RH helix, to differentiate them from the comp ones). I also make the oil cooler fittings myself, exactly as the SAH option came at the time (no adapter plate, fittings welded/brazed directly on the oil canister aluminium head). The factory used the SAH oil cooler option and never produced one in fact. I enclose a short pdf with pixs of the car in its present state and the current work. The books of Mr Kastner prove invaluable in that matter, first because they provide me with the guidance for these cars on what to do or not to make them work fast and well, and how to do it, plus they inform very specifically on what was done at the time on the competition cars, which is the point in my work. I will also retrim the car with a red interior, as I found brand new original Stanpart leather seats (incl. rear seat) in storage in UK since the 70s. The red trim is correct for the BRG paint of the car (being a Jan 59 car, TS42673 LO). When the car will be ready I will certainly build up a website and write a book, as I realised that I am gathering info over my years of research that was lost or no longer known to people (even concours judges), for details such as trim screws, carpet binding material (fi Rexine ref RX17 the original binding material is available again via the book binder business they remade it for), trimming materials (the specific Connolly leather finish which no longer exists on modern leathers but can be made to order), wire colour codes for accessories,....But for now I concentrate all free time in the shop to make the car(s) work (Esprit is waiting a g/box rebuild and a retrim and new exhaust line and turbo and AP Racing brakes). Please accept my apologies for introducing myself 2 weeks after being in the list, work was too much these last weeks! But I read all your posts (and watch the videos as well, at least a bit). I will certainly soon build a proper race car and go racing on the track, when my concours comp TR3 is finally done (but I hope it will be a damn fast road car, competitive on road rallies as well). With my very best regards, Alexandre Camoletti -----Message d'origine----- De : Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] Envoyi : jeudi 16 septembre 2010 17:50 @ : n197tr4 at cs.com Cc : ac at camoletti.ch; fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 Sounds like a great addition. On Sep 16, 2010, at 6:01 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote: [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of PixTR3AlexCamolettiOcto2010.pdf] From pcdelux at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 06:28:33 2010 From: pcdelux at verizon.net (William Dewar) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 08:28:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Walt and list, In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but they were for factory aluminum rims. Bill Dewar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 3 08:03:27 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 09:03:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Message-ID: <319064613AC04E08B896EA2FF133CD95@latitudefb1e41> The knurl diameter on the TR's is .500". I've never found any aftermarket ones in that diameter but these ones listed in the Pegasus catalog should work if you can find the right lug nuts for your wheels. Wheel Studs - Late Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, Short (5-pk) Heat-treated 8740 chrome moly studs have a tensile strength of 190,000 psi to handle the shock loads and lateral forces in racing applications. Pack of 5 studs. Lug nuts are sold separately. a.. Knurl Diameter: 0.509" b.. Knurl Length: 0.315" c.. Nose (unthreaded) Length: none d.. Shank Length: 2.500" e.. Thread Size: M12x1.5 Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dewar" To: "Walter Hollowell" ; Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > Walt and list, > > In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. > I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts > and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric > size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the > hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but > they were for factory aluminum rims. > > Bill Dewar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > >> On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 >> Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far >> enough >> into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of >> longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. >> Thanks >> Walt Hollowell >> Abq., NM >> >> _____ >> >> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > >> . >> SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. >> >> Do you have a slow PC? > >> Try free scan! >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 3 08:50:58 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:50:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 3 09:00:45 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:00:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:14:58 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:14:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001201cb6316$20b738e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi, I'm using studs gotten from Jegs; Summit and most other places sell basically the same thing. They're about 2 3/4 inches long. The hubs need to have the holes enlarged and the studs pressed in. Easy job. I have the reamers if you need to borrow them. My machinest says ream, don't drill. If you don't have a press, use the BFH. I use my Panasport lug nuts that at one time were acorn style (closed end). I chucked them up in my lathe, drilled clear through, them tapped the newly drilled section so they will screw onto the longer studs. All this is pretty easy with the hubs disassembled. Hope this helps. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:18:45 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric crap on my car!!!! It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to carry around. Bill---- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From triosan at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 11:08:10 2010 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:08:10 +0100 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: Best place I have found for lug nuts is at : http://www.ezaccessory.com/Default.asp On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, WILLIAM TOBIN wrote: > Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric > crap on my car!!!! > It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to > carry around. > Bill---- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > > > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far > > enough > > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > > Thanks > > Walt Hollowell > > Abq., NM > > > > _____ > > > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > > > . > > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > > > Do you have a slow PC? > > > Try free scan! > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triosan at gmail.com > > > -- Chuck Arnold and Kathleen Kelley From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 3 15:24:22 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 07:24:22 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: can any of the folk who suggested alternative studs confirm they have taper seats on end of the the stud where it presses into the hub?? (eg TR6). I've never seen a non-british car with this arrangement, and only a few BMC ones had it as far as I know. terry o'beirne, Australia R From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 3 17:09:29 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> References: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD316729CE150B-1EB0-212B0@webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com> With the TR4 neither Sean nor I notice any wheel spin with the Quaife since making some suspension changes a few years ago. It may work even better with GT6 and Spitfire. -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Quaife question I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From fasttrs at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 19:54:05 2010 From: fasttrs at yahoo.com (Mike Munson) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 3.45 gear set Message-ID: <497807.42516.qm@web46111.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am in need of a 3.45 ring and pinion. Anybody out there have one or know where I can get one? Thanks guys. Mike From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 06:04:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 06:04:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Marty, I use a Quaife in my tr4/IRS and it works great. I have been told they can still spin the inside wheel on a live axle car. With IRS you shouldn't have that problem. Jim G. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of marty sukey Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:51 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 4 07:49:52 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> References: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Hi, I've been running a Quaife in my autox-only TR6 for 10 years. I have fairly stiff springs, and a rear bar. To get the car to rotate effectively, you need to run the rear bar at pretty much the stiffest settings. With the Quaife, it is somewhat easy to spin the inside wheel. This is frustrating to me as a driver as I tend to be a little more agressive with my inputs with the predictable reward of wheel spin. Listen to the engine note in any of the vidZ I've posted to U-tooob, you can hear the motor unload. In fact, I get queries on a monthly basis from other autocrossers asking if my cluth is slipping. Nope - it's the Quaife. That said, my input to your question is "put the thing in and drive it." At the very least you'll wind up with a data point on mods for the future. For autocross, pretty much anything is better than an open diff. unless you are smoother than glass with your driving style. But the Quaife is good for a limited slip and much better than an open diff on the one hand an much better than a locker in the other hand. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 09:02:13 2010 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (vintage.racer at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 15:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <898332169.199787.1286204221531.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello: My 1962 TR4 racecar is for sale. Car was on the cover of The Vintage Triumph magazine in August 2007 which also included a feature article. The car is fully race ready and available immediately. Some highlights - less than two hours on rebuilt engine/transmission; Nitride hardened crank; Carrillo Rods; Wiseco pistons; RATCO frame ; Quaffe limited slip diff; Alexander steel flywheel, front axle upgrade; aluminum radiator; rear axle modification; and the list goes on. For photos, full list of car features and list of extensive spares, contact me offline. Thanks. Gary Horstkorta From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:23:08 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:23:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Message-ID: Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 4 11:34:30 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:34:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From andre at gt6.ca Mon Oct 4 11:36:19 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:36:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:40:11 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver References: Message-ID: <0CA5C8D3CCCD4EBB8C345767BC0543C4@Bud> Terrific!!..You guys are Cool! RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com > or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From igofaster at att.net Mon Oct 4 11:53:20 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <573342.29237.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> been listing my 1965 Spitfire raver ?? on eBay the last couple of weeks, it's still available if interested... Bobby ________________________________ From: Joe Curry To: RACER BUD ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:34:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/igofaster at att.net From adcronin at mi.rr.com Mon Oct 4 12:02:08 2010 From: adcronin at mi.rr.com (Dan Cronin) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 14:02:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Listers Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? Thanks, Dan C. From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 18:54:04 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] torque 5/16th bolt Message-ID: <533924.91050.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Friends: Had to split the calipers on the TR7 and now I'm ready to put them back together. The bolts are 5/16th. Information on line indicates the torque should be 14 ft/lbs. Anyone have any other thoughts? Thanks, Ernie From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 21:40:33 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 20:40:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spare rocker shaft needed for Spitfire Message-ID: <67EB842D164445F3B4D90509AC39DCF3@Bud> Hi Gang....I broke my rocker shaft on my Spitfire Sunday at Infineon...I installed my spare today....I now need a spare...I need the type with the end braces...stock is fine.....must be cheap! thanks..Racer Bud.... From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 4 23:55:21 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:55:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my >TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip >milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and >instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most >think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is >71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the >journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other >options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll >with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 5 01:01:59 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:01:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> I have to admit I am getting lost here. My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the lip seal and it will then groove the crank. Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly 2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them is 63.5. But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your experience with this dimension? Thank you ! Cheers Alexandre -----Message d'origine----- De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Tony Drews Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 @ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ac at camoletti.ch From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 08:57:52 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I took a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. I managed to have my local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group 44" oval white sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. I'm going to offer 1 or 2 for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the USA and I can get it to you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality but heck... at 110 mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and given a few away to some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... So if there are no objections, send me your name and mailing address. If all goes well I will start sending them out next week. We're going to Austin Texas this weekend (my second hometown) for the Austin City Music Festival... not sure I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd of 75000 for three days in a row, but the median age should be around 30 or so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer is the Freakin' Eagles are the headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? How many 30 year olds wanna see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being propped up to do their millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. although balding I don't have one of those little rat tail ponytails either... Bobby Whitehead CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ 1971 TR6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Tue Oct 5 09:09:04 2010 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:09:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The stickers are a nice idea but I'm not sure Bob Tullius will appreciate it. Back in the day, those stickers were applied only to cars that the Group felt were worthy of approval. I got one on my FP Spitfire but they put it on the inside of the trunk lid because it was a Kastner-built car! By the way, I saw the Eagles in concert two years ago and they put on a hell of a show. They've still got it. Mike Cook Bald, no pony tail > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 > From: igofaster at att.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > CC: GRMTim at aol.com > Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. > > As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with > Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I > took > a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. > > I managed to have my > local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group > 44" oval white > sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. > > I'm going to offer 1 or 2 > for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the > USA and I can get it to > you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality > but heck... at 110 > mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and > given a few away to > some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... > > So if there are no objections, send me > your name and mailing address. If all > goes well I will start sending them out > next week. We're going to Austin Texas > this weekend (my second hometown) for > the Austin City Music Festival... not sure > I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd > of 75000 for three days in a row, but the > median age should be around 30 or > so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer > is the Freakin' Eagles are the > headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? > How many 30 year olds wanna > see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being > propped up to do their > millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." > > Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. > although balding I don't have one of those little > rat tail ponytails > either... > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mlcooknj at msn.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 5 09:44:14 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:44:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <20101005154345.05E3A18763F@autox.team.net> The instructions that come with the seal call for the crank to be ground to 2.500". In many engine builds using this dimension, Jack and I fought leaking rear seals. Jack eventually discovered that if he had the crank turned to 2.525" rather than 2.500" that he had much better luck in getting the rear seal to work properly. He also shortened the spring supplied with the kit to 8". Prior to using the larger crank diameter, his fix was to cut a little off of one edge of the seal. This is a very inexact fix, and the larger crank diameter worked much better for us. Since my crank is ground to the smaller diameter, I don't have much recent experience with the 2.525" diameter. We never had a problem with the seal "grooving" the crank. I've had one rebuild out of probably 4 where I got the rear main to seal properly. I hope for the best every year. Jack wrote up a series of engine building tips, and I've made it available to everyone here: http://www.tonydrews.com/uncle_jacks_engine_building_tips.htm The larger crank diameter is one of the tips. - Tony Drews At 02:01 AM 10/5/2010, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: >I have to admit I am getting lost here. >My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be >ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the >lip seal and it will then groove the crank. >Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly >2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. >Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them >is 63.5. >But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. >Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your >experience with this dimension? >Thank you ! >Cheers >Alexandre > >-----Message d'origine----- >De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la >part de Tony Drews >Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 >@ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph >Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll > >For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, >and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction >to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal >instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it >seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the >seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the >spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the >seal. > >The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander >is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. > >- Tony Drews > >At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: > >Listers > >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank > >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had > >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective > >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil > >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that > >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is > >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by > >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you > >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip >seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > >Thanks, Dan C. > >_ From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Oct 5 10:03:31 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K Message-ID: Hi All, some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which helped but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and not much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put TR3 steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. If you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite to get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc etc but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one piece, 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground flat on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the wheel broke :) Cheers Tony From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 5 14:55:02 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:55:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Eagles are still amazing. From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Oct 5 15:21:27 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:21:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indeed they are. Perhaps the best American band. Now, if we just had some modern Triumphs to watch race... And to buy... Terry Stetler. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: michael cook Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. The Eagles are still amazing. From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Oct 5 17:03:52 2010 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K References: Message-ID: Results are obvious Really enjoyed the Watkins Glen show a few years back. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K > Hi All, > some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can > power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which > helped > but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set > up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and > not > much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put > TR3 > steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. > If > you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off > most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite > to > get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc > etc > but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one > piece, > 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground > flat > on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the > wheel broke :) > > Cheers > Tony From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 17:32:18 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers Message-ID: <67148.26976.qm@web180808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> wow... those went quick... most were doubles and a few asked for more than two... if you've asked by now, you will have your requests mailed tomorrow... if you haven't asked by now.... too late! they're gone! thanks for the interest! cheers! Bobby From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:35:34 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:35:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? Message-ID: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:15 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] studs for tr3 and tr4 and tr6 Message-ID: <8CD32FD6045B6CF-1CFC-3CD3@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> forgot to mention model From jhassall at blacksburg.net Tue Oct 5 18:09:11 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:09:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 5 18:33:20 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? In-Reply-To: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <716868.33648.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I used the Moroso wheel stud # 46160 on my TR3, TR4, and the TVR - front and rear. ...they are 7/16"/20 x 2 7/8" long .560" dia knurl - a 9/16" drill did the trick Dennis Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/yellow-green at sbcglobal.net From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 5 18:41:29 2010 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:41:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F2C42BB-BF64-43E8-9113-399256CFDE79@earthlink.net> > "one of those little rat tail ponytails" > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 Hummm... Do I resemble that remark? No, I guess not - mine is more like what you'd find on the back of an ass. Oops! I meant donkey. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Oct 5 20:16:47 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:16:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 20:45:24 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> We are also processing a new tool to go with Chris' Viton Seal. It is called MURPHY'S TOOL, courtesy of Tim. Prototypes are being made and they will aid in compacting the felt seal in the rear bearing block. Add this to the new Centering Tool with corrected dimension and maybe we have a better chance to seal nothing should be left to chance. and dont forget engine block ventilation. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gray To: 'J.C. Hassall' ; 'Dan Cronin' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph Triumph' Sent: Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:16 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 05:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris From rfdeanes at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 06:06:25 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:06:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Good show..TRs can still do it ! As one person has said " THE SHAPE OF THINGS STILL HERE"! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 08:22:15 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:22:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting Message-ID: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Oct 6 08:28:12 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA Message-ID: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Oct 6 08:55:56 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. jim g ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pendergrass" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM Subject: [Fot] block venting Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B Mark Pendy B TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 6 08:56:08 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101006145533.4F18F18767D@autox.team.net> You have the big crankcase vent in the left hand side of the block run to your catch tank too? Having that plugged or too small (maybe a small fitting in the fuel pump cover plate) has been a source of pressure build up in my experience. Pulling the plug in the hole for the big vent so it can be re-installed with the engine in the car is a major PITA. - Tony Drews At 09:22 AM 10/6/2010, Mark Pendergrass wrote: >Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of >pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the >rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum >cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on >cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark >Pendy TR4#65 >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:06:23 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:07 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting ros On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:36 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: er connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:07 AM, robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting ros > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > >> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 >> lines. >> >> >> >> jim g >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Pendergrass" >> To: "friends of triumph" >> Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM >> Subject: [Fot] block venting >> >> Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot >> of >> pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around >> the >> rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned >> aluminum >> cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung >> on >> cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >> venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance >> B >> Mark >> Pendy B TR4#65 >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 6 09:17:10 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:17:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3318FA89-F477-4324-A085-60D41ED47F98@earthlink.net> I've been told by Kas that you can't have too much ventilation on the TR3/4 engine. I run a 1" hose from the old sump vent (Modified as in the old black book) and a 1" hose coming off the valve cover into a nice big catch tank next to the battery. Steve B On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:22 AM, Mark Pendergrass wrote: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/colordog.1 at earthlink.net From jason at multivintage.com Wed Oct 6 09:19:33 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Wow, Nice Drive...Colin Chapman must be rolling over in his grave. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From gt6steve at aol.com Wed Oct 6 10:35:36 2010 From: gt6steve at aol.com (gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:35:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA In-Reply-To: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD338BA3A0AEB6-1990-16DD@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> I still have a nice yellow GT6 racer for sale cheap! Steve in Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: n197tr4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 7:28 am Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com = From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 11:33:06 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:33:06 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <000d01cb657c$8abec7e0$a03c57a0$@com> Close to Ramstein airbase. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Alexandre Camoletti [mailto:ac at camoletti.ch] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2010 15:29 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge Well done ! Where are you based? Alex (Geneva) From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:26:48 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (mark eginton) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:26:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <000001cb65b6$54c8cc50$6401a8c0@HP> Well, if you decide to run without it I can tell you; keep a hand on the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake in corners where you get a lot of wheel spin. Back in the late 50s my dad and his friends used the ebrake in gymkanas when the wheel would spin - before he put limited slip in. Works great in a TR3 since you have to push the button to get it the ebrake to stay pulled. I have tried it in an autocross (unfortunately, I threw out the limited slip thinking all rear ends had them in my brainless youth!) but it does work better than nothing. Not nearly as good as limited slip but it does make a difference. Have fun, M From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:30:03 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (Mark Eginton) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:30:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <4CAD148B.1040400@twcny.rr.com> If you choose not to install the Quaif, you can always revert to the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake. My dad used it in gymkanas back in the day and I have tried it in autocrosses. Its easier in a TR3 as you have to push the button to keep the brake on so its like driving an old 1900s car with a hand brake. Once you identify the corners with wheel slip, use the ebrake and it does actually help - not a good as limited slip but it does work. Unfortunately, I unknowingly threw out a broken diff with limited slip so I don't have it now... M From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 18:51:15 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 18:51:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting rod! > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 19:26:42 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:26:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD21D2.1000302@bradakis.com> Sometimes it sucks being poor. Rob Deanes recently sent me a pic of his TR4 at full chat, and I have been wishing I still had the Rust Rocket, or The White Car, or my 250... I'll give you $100 down and $100 a month for the rest of my life. mjb. From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 20:30:18 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:30:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <30014A77468C472F828A89737F8621C6@Pendys> No thanks, i'll stick with the rubber hoses....MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] block venting > robert bownes wrote: >> Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a >> connecting rod! >> > > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mpendy at dishmail.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 7 04:41:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:41:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> And race 3 http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 08:35:56 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> Message-ID: What Happened? On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 5:41 AM, MadMarx wrote: > And race 3 > > > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < > > tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: > > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From riverside at southslope.net Thu Oct 7 10:05:15 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 14:23:53 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 13:23:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] springs for TR4AIrs Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I recently bought a race car project - and I am going through the suspension first. This is a 4A irs car, and I am looking for suggestions on where to buy race springs for a 4a, and what spring rate should I look for? I am not planning on modifying the suspension geometry, so I assume this means that I should get stiffer springs? Thanks in advance, Mark From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:13:52 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: Don't know about the heads, but for the cam, I'd suggest the Kastner A-6. TSI lists it and says it's marginal for the street, but I had a friend that ran one back in the '70's on the street and it worked fine. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 19:44:44 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 20:44:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 Message-ID: Check out the lasted Classic Motorsports Rag. Our very own Scott Barr, my now famous driving instructor, has his car featured in the "only guy crazy enough to drive a GT6 to work" section of the magazine. He even quotes his pride for FOT adding even more mystique and allure to our group. Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From budscars at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:45:01 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:45:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG..INFINEON....Next....THUNDERHILL Message-ID: <9767547A0780410F82F994407CD53758@Bud> Hi Gang...It was terrific hooking up with some of you guys at Infineon..Now .I'm entered for Thunderhill...It's a nice..friendly track...lot's of runoff..designed to be like the old days..and ..we help the town of Willows...It's also our annual banquet(at the track)..Free for 2 with entry..and.Free.Friday afternoon testing ...sponsored/paid for by Gordon Walton...Honda Racer... Racer bud From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 8 05:33:37 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:33:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Badge update 10-8-2010 Message-ID: Amici, Nothing new to report as of yet. I am waiting to get the sample and when I do I'll take more pictures and a video of it. Deadline is November 1,2010 58 badges are paid for. Price is only $30. Payment can be PayPay (SeaCubeCo at aol.com). Or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) Thank you From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 06:11:29 2010 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:11:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. Irv Korey From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 07:32:13 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:32:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Oct 8 08:07:40 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:07:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 08:46:02 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:46:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 8 09:01:25 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:01:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE Message-ID: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! It has rather surprised me how many GT6's have been developed in recent years. There was a time when I was the only TRIUMPH in VARA. Then Paul Smock came along and winning has gotten progressively harder since....;-)) In a message dated 10/8/2010 7:31:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n197tr4 at cs.com writes: Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From list at mackenzie.aero Fri Oct 8 09:01:40 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:01:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb66f9$b707e970$2517bc50$@aero> Art: If I am not mistaken, the dished pistons were used to lower the CR for the US spec cars. The thickness of the head casting remained the same. Flat-top pistons are a must if you want to get anything above 9:1 CR. Here are a couple of good links with useful information: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm#Port_and _Polish_and_Flow_the_Head http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spitheads.htm Use this xl spreadsheet to calculate how much you want/need to take off. (if anybody else need a copy send me an e-mail and I will shoot you a copy) I recently built a 1500 for street/autocross use. It worked out so well I am building it again, but that is another story... On my head I took off .125 to with an early 1500 block using stock flat top pistons for a just under 9:1 CR I also had John at Costa Mesa R&D install modified TR7 valves and beehive springs to the max allowable diameters as per the SCCA Solo GP specs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlY0sTYYBY (I think John can put these springs on any other TR engine as well - shameless plug for a good friend) As for cams; on my auto-X motor I used Ted S's 275-4 cam and it is great. (Another shameless plug) Let me know if I can help you in any way. Robert MacKenzie President, Hill Country Triumph Club Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) -------------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 From: "riverside" Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads To: Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0 at your55e5f9e3d2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/vnd] From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:29:19 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:29:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s > seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be > a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. >> He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very >> occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 09:39:28 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> References: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Message-ID: Your Right, I could use two.... but I'm afraid I'd have to take the red one! :) Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:48:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:48:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Two good projects up for sale in Colorado Message-ID: <1635925597.9466.1286552938142.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Just a couple good project car packages for sale. N.F.I. on my part. This is a pair of TR-3's with many new parts. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1995092432.html Our own Tyler Thompson # 413 TR4 has a Bug Eye for sale to help fund two TR-4's for his sons. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1972998457.html Jim G From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 8 10:43:50 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 09:43:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Fitting into a GT6 is more than just overall height. I am only 5-10 but have a difficult time fitting. It is because I have relatively short legs and a long torso. It's the torso that is the problem. My head hits the roof unless I scrunch down. At the same time, If I ride a horse, I sit high in the saddle (If I can ever reach the stirrup to get up there in the first place). Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Janzen Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:29 AM Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 8 12:07:20 2010 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:07:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: ============= Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 12:11:28 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Cough after shedding 40 lbs to go racing I reject that BIG title. hehe Let me know when its out Kas. Would make a nice XMAS stocking stuffer. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100925__1997.jpg A. On 8 October 2010 14:07, Kas Kastner wrote: > My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. > ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: > > ============= > Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. > > I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the > machine or for that matter safety exiting. > > http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html > > I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. > > I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and > even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it > almost impossible to do cleanly. > With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering > wheel. > > http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg > > So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. > http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg > > BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and > entering the car. > He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in > its like a big go cart. > > A. > > On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: >> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to > be >> gaining in popularity. >> >> NFI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jason Ostrowski >> To: Irv Korey >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 >> >> >> I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good >> Student and give my teacher HELL. >> ANY GT6 is a winner to me >> Cheers.. >> Jason >> FGR >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>>> >>> >>> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >>> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >>> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >>> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >>> >>> Irv Korey >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca >> >> >> > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net > > > > -- > Never be beaten by equipment > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From trmarty at hotmail.com Fri Oct 8 12:18:51 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:18:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias Message-ID: Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of years ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. Sleeve on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of each m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at the top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. Hmmmm, did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and noticed there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back and forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods are fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking there are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop I thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like this. Marty From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 8 13:01:06 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:01:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions Message-ID: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> It's been a long time since I've worked on a TR3 bound for the street. I'm building what I'd describe as a hot rod street TR3 for myself, from a failed resto I bought a few years ago. Putting a lot of unused racing parts I've accumulated on the car where appropriate. I have some questions. Front brakes--I've trial-fitted the Wilwood superlight calipers I have laying around (no one will let me get away with them on Peyote) and discovered the outer edge of the pads sit about an inch outside the disk. I thought I might have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? I'm pretty sure I didn't have such a bad fit on the old Cheater. They look like they need to be about 1" further in. The inner edge of the pad is equally miss-fit. There's about an inch of wear pattern on the rotor in from the inner edge of the pad. Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter driveshaft. Yes/No? I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. From tjwakeman at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 13:43:59 2010 From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:43:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 13:54:27 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F64EBB22C444E33B31BD99765A47DD3@INSPIRON> I don't think you need to do that On my tilt on set there is some play back and forth. This system changes the bias to front and rear buy the moving of the cylinder(in the sleeve) closer to or further away from the master rod Go to the Tilton web site and look at there install info There some good pictures and explanation on the theory Use real caution the next time on the track (if you make changes)until you are sure the brakes are balanced. To much rear brake and you will spin before you know it rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net From goodparts at verizon.net Fri Oct 8 14:38:41 2010 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:38:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9907B482534D48A7B5A72B0E7A72D991@AdminPC> Marty, Brake bias is not changed when the rod and yoke assembly slides side to side in the tube because the ball and socket that is on the threaded rod inside the tube is also sliding. The ball is what transfers the force from the tube to the threaded rod so it is the location of the ball on the threaded rod in relation to the two yokes that determines the bias. Generally, the yokes on each end of the threaded rod should be threaded fairly close to the big tube in the pedal arm leaving just enough clearance so as to not bind when the threaded rod operates at maximum angle. If the yokes want to be further apart so the rods to the MC's are straight you can use washers or spacers between. Richard Good ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ From jibjib at att.net Fri Oct 8 15:41:48 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:41:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <180A535151DF44DB855548EF5D4B94BF@EntCent> TerriAnn nailed it all except the brakes, which seems really weird to me. Do you have a stock caliper to compare the Wilwoods to? I can't think of anything that would put the caliper out an inch from the C/L of the wheel. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TeriAnn J. Wakeman Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:44 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Stocker questions On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 8 17:34:39 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:34:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: > I thought I might > have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". That's the size of the later TR4-TR6 rotors; original TR3 rotors were 11". The TR4-6 mounts also move the caliper closer to the axle, but I'm not sure by how much. The calipers changed at the same time, so may not be strictly comparable. > Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? Not from the factory, although the later mounts will fit on the TR3 vertical links. > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a > mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? As TeriAnn said, the 4-synchro box is a bit longer than the original 3-synchro, so slot the mounting holes in the rear crossmember. ISTR I also rolled down the lip on the crossmember a bit, but that may not always be required. Depending on which gearbox, you may also need to fiddle with the clutch linkage. I used a late TR6 box with the thicker flange, which moved the clutch slave back by 1/4" or so. I had to trim the pushrod to match, and make a bracket for the return spring. Also longer studs & bolts for mounting, but that's trivial. Randall From jhassall at blacksburg.net Fri Oct 8 20:16:42 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:16:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <4CAFD08A.40406@blacksburg.net> On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the > additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? > > They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve > pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. > > See drawing > > Alex > Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 9 02:19:27 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 03:19:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 References: Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C740190A884@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Cripes - a guy goes on vacation and look what happens! Just checked my e-mail for the first time since arriving. It was really cool to see The Colonel featured in my favorite magazine (thanks, Tim!). That car has been a ton of fun, on-track and off (and got close to FTD at VTR in my first autocross attempt :-) Clearly the car and not me). Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net on behalf of Jason Ostrowski Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 8:32 AM To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 9 08:03:53 2010 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) Message-ID: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg From tlizzard at msn.com Sat Oct 9 08:09:21 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:09:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: So far the only fix is to carry a lot of spares, and hope the new ones are good. I wish someone with the engineering and production know how would come up with some made from modern materials, I.E. a single piece of plastic stuff, whatever it might be. The Chinese have no clue how to make these things. Terry Stetler From list at mackenzie.aero Sat Oct 9 09:40:47 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:40:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Wanted: Spit 1500 Crank Pulley Message-ID: <000b01cb67c8$58260d40$087227c0$@aero> I am in need of a crank pulley for a Spitfire 1500 engine. If anybody has a spare they can part with, please let me know. Robert MacKenzie Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 19:04:17 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:04:17 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 trunnions Message-ID: does anyone know of a vendor with a NOS left lower trunnion?. I've bought 2 reproduction ones so far, and both are sloppier than my 40year old STANPART one. thanks, terry o'beirne From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sat Oct 9 19:16:20 2010 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 20:16:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6818$c073a7e0$415af7a0$@com> There is a solution. A fella by the name of Harold Baker made some floats of the proper dimensions and weight out of aluminum with an o-ring seal at the top for Bill Dentinger and Bob Wismer. They were painstakingly made by Harold. Bill and Bob have graciously lent me some of the prototypes so I can get the dimensions from them. My plan is to talk to a friend of mine who has a machine shop with CNC milling machines and see if I can't make the programs and fixtures to "mass produce" this type of float from aluminum bar stock. You have now given me some motivation to get off of my butt and get going on this "winter" project. I will post occasional updates on my progress, or lack thereof. Tim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 9:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmurph at fastbytes.com From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 23:19:19 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:19:19 +1000 Subject: [Fot] chasing Nardi steering wheel boss Message-ID: would anyone have a Nardi steering wheel boss to suit a TR5/TR6 . dont care if there is no horn button. thanks, terry O'Beirne From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Oct 10 20:12:37 2010 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:12:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 From robertten1 at aol.com Sun Oct 10 21:18:19 2010 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> References: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD370A1348215E-1DF0-23204@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> I guess I should hold onto my sticker and not use it on my car as I got mine back in the early seventies from a BL dealer and the Group 44 were the cars to beat. Cheers, Bob T -----Original Message----- From: GRMTim at aol.com To: igofaster at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Cc: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertten1 at aol.com From horizonracing at msn.com Mon Oct 11 07:12:57 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:12:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire Message-ID: List.... I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. Who or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? Thank you Tony From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 11 09:01:50 2010 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:01:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire References: Message-ID: Tony, have you tried British Parts NW? http://www.bpnorthwest.com/.sc/ms/dd/Spitfire-GT6--Performance%20Parts/7406/A-Arm%20Bushing%20Set%20Poly%20Spitfire-GT6 Charly Mitchel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire > List.... > I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. > Who > or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? > Thank you > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly at mitchelplumbing.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 11 16:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Seasons Final at the Nurburgring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501cb6994$10be62e0$323b28a0$@com> Race two from last weekend.... http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5526918229788066034 Cheers Chris From whitedog72 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 11 18:28:33 2010 From: whitedog72 at hotmail.com (f s) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:28:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Oct 11 18:34:37 2010 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (jaxonracing at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:34:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: I wud love a copy of that as well if they are available. Jay creel ------Original Message------ From: f s Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumph friends Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Sent: Oct 11, 2010 8:28 PM Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaxonracing at yahoo.com From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 11 22:51:34 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:51:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/5/6 Aluminum hubs Commercial message Message-ID: <20101012045102.52BB5187658@autox.team.net> uncle jack's racing Aluminum front hubs are going back into production for a limited quantity run. These are a revised design that I've been testing all season. We are using a different set of inner bearings than the prior aluminum hubs used, but they have the same high load rating and are about half of the cost. These hubs eliminate a significant weakness in the stock hubs between the inner and outer flange. They incorporate very high load rating, larger than stock Timken bearings which eliminates the bearing failure issues that are present with stock bearings when using sticky tires. I have been running set with bearings of this load rating from 2003 through 2009 (before running the prototypes this year) and can detect no wear in the bearings. I drive them HARD, and am not afraid to use the curbs. I'm taking pre-orders at this time - no deposits yet. But, please don't pre-order a set if you don't really intend to buy them. This is a very significant investment for me, and I need to gauge the level of interest. Here's how the pricing shakes out (US dollars): A) Bare hubs: $175.00 each / $350.00 per pair B) Hubs with Timken races and ARP studs installed: $280.00 each / $560.00 per pair C) Hubs with all bearings, seals, dust caps and ARP studs installed: $370.00 each / $740.00 per pair For folks who order these hubs, if you already have the heavy duty axle kit, I'll supply a pair of bearing spacers that will work with these hubs for $40 per pair. If you don't already have a set of the Heavy Duty front axles, I'll supply the axle kit along with the hubs for $150 per pair. These are the lowest prices for the axle kits that have been offered. Shipping is a flat $20 in the continental US, $35 to Canada, and other international shipping is probably $50 - at least to Germany or to Australia. The hubs are designed to accept ARP 1/2" x 3" studs, but ARP 7/16" x 3.2" studs can be specified. 7/16" is the stock diameter. If you're interested, please send an e-mail to tony at tonydrews.com with the following info: * Which set you're interested in (A, B or C) * How many hubs are desired (2 would be assumed) * Stud diameter desired * Are spacers needed? Thanks for your interest, Tony Drews tony at tonydrews.com uncle jack's racing From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 12 00:38:01 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:38:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <002e01cb69d8$06328e20$1297aa60$@camoletti.ch> Hi Jim ! Called yesterday this seal specialised company in Geneva, but split lip seals are not used in the industry sot hey could not help. But they provided an interesting info: lip compression on the shaft must be max 10 to 12 10th of mm (1.0 to 1.2 mm). Depending on the manufacturer, but all are within this range the engineer explained. This means that for a shaft at 63.5, seal with the uncompressed lip must be 62.5 max ID (range 62.3-62.5). If with this seal of 62.5 free ID the shaft is bigger than 63.5 or 63.7 OD max, then the lip will not seat on the shaft as designed and the oil film in between will not work and make the seal. Leaks. Yesterday I measured the Moss seal lip when assembled and it measures exactly at 62.5. So this is correct for a 63.5 axle. But we have to be aware that lip seals are designed to withstand a pressure of 0.5 bar usually. Not much. So important to relieve oil pressure on the seal by drilling the recommended holes. Maybe fit an oil splash control washer if possible? So I will go for the 63.6 journal grind (this is the up tolerance leaflet mentions) and drill the two 10mm additional holes. Maybe shorten the spring slightly. Cheers! Alexandre De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : mardi 12 octobre 2010 02:45 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/11/2010 3:26 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Thank you Jim ! Keep us posted ! We have a specialised company here in Geneva for industry lip seals and bearings, interesting to see what they advise. I will certainly replace the seal provided with the kit, as it looks dubious quality (no markings, no brand), with one from a reputable company, possibly made from Viton or some modern material, and with double lip. Will keep the FOT posted on my findings. Cheers! Alex Good luck Alex, and by all means please keep us posted. If there's a better seal out there, your discovery will be welcome by all of us who got burned. thanks, jim De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : samedi 9 octobre 2010 04:17 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Cc : fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. See drawing Alex Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of image001.png] From igofaster at att.net Wed Oct 13 07:56:11 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. Bobby Whitehead CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP Happy Motoring! From andre at gt6.ca Wed Oct 13 09:39:01 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 13 10:39:40 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Message-ID: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 13 11:00:12 2010 From: Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com (Spitfire Racing) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:00:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> References: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501cb6af8$19e828f0$4db87ad0$@rr.com> That's called a Spitfire! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Kramer Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:40 PM To: Andre Rousseau; Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 13 11:23:19 2010 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:23:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper head gasket source? Message-ID: <247c4.4fef2a2d.39e74507@aol.com> Need source for all-copper head gasket and solid graphite intake/exhaust gaskets Dave Spiwak spiwakd at aol.com From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:49:05 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:49:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= Message-ID: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:51:55 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:51:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Message-ID: Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Oct 13 16:56:24 2010 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:56:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a grand I hope it comes with a loose gold coins in the floorboards. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Office 512-657-8526 Cell Dream big dreams, but never forget that realistic short-term goals are the keys to your success. ~Mac Anderson -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:52 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer at rdoequipment.com From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 13 16:58:42 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= In-Reply-To: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Message-ID: <20101013225830.XQEK3042.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It could not be a GT6+ and a 74 model. The GT6+ model was made up until 1970. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph GT6 Plus 74b?T Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Oct 13 17:17:58 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:17:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB63E26.5000609@blacksburg.net> On 10/13/2010 6:51 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Another amazing find! > RB > "Recent" frame restoration?? Would that be "recent" in geologic terms? But it does include a Bushing, what a deal! > > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From list at mackenzie.aero Thu Oct 14 10:46:24 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:46:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 40 DOCE for a 1147 Spit Message-ID: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> I recently was given a weber DOCE 151 carb on a "LYNX SPIT" manifold that I intend to install on the 1147 engine in my '62 Spitfire racecar. The carb is in good condition but is lacking the linkage. My car still has the original bellcrank throttle linkage controlling the SUs Does anybody in FOT world run this carb on an 1147 powered early Spitfire? If so can you please send me some photos of your throttle linkages? Also; any recommendations on jetting would be appreciated as well. Robert MacKenzie NASS # 511 Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 13:19:23 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:19:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> Message-ID: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 14 14:04:37 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 14 14:13:59 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:13:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From tylerpthompson at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 14:31:24 2010 From: tylerpthompson at yahoo.com (tylerpthompson at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:31:24 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com><1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Count me in for two sets as well. Ty Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 To: MadMarx Cc: Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tylerpthompson at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 14:35:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:35:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <002701cb6bdf$4e300500$ea900f00$@com> Hi Tony, I run EBC yellow brake pads and I use ATE blue racing fluid. I have not measured the brake temps as my gauge ends at 200 degree centigrade. I used the available sealing rings you can buy but I always wondered about that they feel like that a Chinese worker does cut old bicycle tires into sealing rings. The available rings are very soft and look a little sloppy made. The seals I used came from Bastuck, Limora and Moss/Europe. The current ring I use I got as a sample for testing from the manufacturer, custom made for me. If you have them in your hands, you really feel the reliability compared with the Chinese worker made ones. I also think you could reuse them twice or more. The finest rubber for this use they are made from. But expensive..240 is a huge number of rings. Will make a hole in my pocket ;-) Cheers Chris Von: Tony and Annie Garmey [mailto:horizonracing at msn.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Oktober 2010 22:14 An: toodamnfunky at comcast.net; tr4racing at googlemail.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: RE: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 15 01:49:27 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:49:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racer in my area (Geneva, Switzerland) Message-ID: <001e01cb6c3d$7f01a450$7d04ecf0$@camoletti.ch> Dear FOT! When you invited my to the group (thank you again!) one of you kindly replied to welcome and indicate there was a Triumph racer in Switzerland or nearby the Geneva area. However I accidentally deleted the email while doing an inbox clean up. I cannot remember the member's name who sent it to me. If you could resend it this will be greatly appreciated! Thank you ! Cheers Alex From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Oct 15 03:16:59 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:16:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101cb6c49$ba171b40$2e4551c0$@com> I would like to add a photo of the outside ring that would replace the dust cover. That ring is just there for closing the gap between caliper and piston. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_T17qmiZWUoA/TLXlpyetmYI/AAAAAAAAAig/1z9BsWlptkI/s800/D SC01167.JPG Cheers Chris From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 15 15:02:31 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:02:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge Update 10-14-2010 Message-ID: Amici, There are 64 badges paid for so far. I am hoping that by the next update there will be an actual sample badge in all its glory in my hand. I will take pictures and video of it when I get it. I might even mount it on a few grills that I have laying around. Cost is still $30 each DEADLINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Payment is either by PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) If you have sent payment and I haven't responded to you then please let me know. I love getting my mail and there is an envelope from someone I have never met sending me money. It is like Christmas all over again. thanks Chris From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 18 16:53:53 2010 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:53:53 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 18:18:27 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:18:27 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 18:29:28 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3358DA9D01FB4B2E83221AF53E591F1D@Bud> what's up?...there's no message... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimdonick" To: "friendsoftriumph" Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Help! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 18:45:38 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero><000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <8CD3D3E15859633-14A4-E6CB@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Chris, based on our history and the history of others, it seems like there may be a larger market than the racing community. count us in for a set of seals. we HAVE had a few leakers over the years. people are getting very tired of sub standard materials. thanks Chris. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Byrne To: MadMarx ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:53 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 19:05:12 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <9C733059D506495BBD6A9E6F1867FA45@INSPIRON> for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 18 19:42:51 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:42:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <20101018.214251.25227.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Rob, after washing them and letting them thoroughly dry, let the air out, seal them up in a black plastic bag and store them in a cool place in the basement. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Rob" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbcf7d547f1335e7f2st01duc From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 19:48:21 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:48:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 20:04:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:04:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Help! In-Reply-To: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time -----Original Message----- From: jimdonick To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Oct 18 22:44:32 2010 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home PC) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:44:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Madisonville, Kentucky. (on US 41, just south of town) Sorry I do not seem to have his exact address or number handy. kg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? > > TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jimdonick > To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph > > Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > > > not sure what happened. > Here's the original message > jimdonick > Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its > annual > Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) > Anyway. > I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an > original > hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever > the > heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such > items > might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre > hardtop > that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in > highschool > my > only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of > Northwestern > Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the > SALT > but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a > motor > in > for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete > top > would be greatly appreciated. > kind regards to all, > jimdonick > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: RACER BUD >>Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >>To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph > >>Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! >> >>what's up?...there's no message... >>Racer Bud >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "jimdonick" >>To: "friendsoftriumph" >>Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >>Subject: [Fot] Help! >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> fot at autox.team.net >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphs at consolidated.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3205 - Release Date: 10/18/10 13:34:00 From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 19 06:31:48 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4A IRS Frame Message-ID: <679419.54322.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI - Anyone going near Arlington Texas? I need a frame moved anywhere closer to the Midwest. Joe Alexander says that he might be able to pick it up in Oklahoma City. Thanks Dennis From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 19 07:24:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: It's an old record, but I show: Paul Oglesby 270/821-6351 Fax 825-8305 Bill Dentinger From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 07:29:59 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Oct 19 08:50:04 2010 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] John Wiley Message-ID: <005c01cb6f9c$eac87c60$c0597520$@org> Trying to get hold of John Wiley, last known in Toledo, Ohio. Races a TR4 on occasion. John, you out there? Anyone else have contact into. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 09:34:43 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:34:43 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Hi at all the rings material is EPDM 85. A set of 4 rings for one caliper will cost about 65-75$. If only the inner rings are needed then half the price, as then there are only two rings. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert M. Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 15:30 An: Geoff Byrne Cc: MadMarx; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From riverside at southslope.net Tue Oct 19 09:39:17 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1500 heads Message-ID: <000b01cb6fa3$d3d587d0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Thanks so much to all of you who responded. I have a plateful of food for thought! art de arnond From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 09:41:25 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, MadMarx wrote: > Hi at all > > the rings material is EPDM 85. Ah - I see specs for the temp range of -70 to +275F You source these from any o-ring supplier? Sorry, just being a nitwit today. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 10:24:34 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 10:30:10 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:30:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb6faa$e73429b0$b59c7d10$@com> The Bastuck company supply 4.1; 4.3; 4.55. I run a 4.1 for about 6 years now and I have a 4.3 on the shelf for tight tracks. Bastuck is about 30 km way from me. If I can be of any help. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Robert M. Lang Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 18:25 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 19 10:43:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: <4F.A9.12606.C8ACDBC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> I have a 4.875 set I don't need if anyone is interested. I'd like to get FMV -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Lang Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:24 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 11:34:18 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 12:13:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDDFCE.9030803@pobox.com> I purchased a 4.55 gearset from Revington TR. They currently list 3.45, 4.1, 4.3, 4.55, 5.25, 6.67. I'm not sure what you would want some of these for. I tried almost every combination in my TR3 and consider a 4.55 to be the ideal gearset with an OD, giving 3.73 in 4th OD. Isn't this what Kas used in the Sebring cars? On that note, I have the following for sale: TR3 rear axle, 4.55 ratio, Southwick axles, Salisbury LSD Overdrive transmission coupled to close ratio gearbox If interested, contact me off list. -Larry From harmug at us.ibm.com Tue Oct 19 12:40:34 2010 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 19 12:57:23 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101019185716.KBQ3990.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I run dual Isky valve springs on my modified 1296 engine. My rationale has always been that dual springs offer much greater spring tension to prevent valve float in the higher RPM range. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Harmuth Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 13:54:25 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDF771.6020204@pobox.com> This is a bit technical, but I will try to explain. The tension of a valve spring fluctuates at its natural frequency. This often called "Spring Surge". Generally the two springs will have different natural frequencies, which helps to smooth out the magnitude of these fluctuations. If you use a single spring with the same overall tension as the two springs there is probably not much of a weight difference. The other advantage of two springs is that you can get a stronger spring force in a smaller space. On 10/19/2010 1:40 PM, George Harmuth wrote: > I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double > springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but > I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to > doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a > particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev > over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I > use single springs and if so any suggestions? > > thanks > mike > > 63 Spitfire From EDENMA at aol.com Tue Oct 19 14:06:04 2010 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:06:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again Message-ID: <1a69ff.3b98ede1.39ef542c@aol.com> Mike: We (my son was driving the car at drivers school) spun my #2 rod bearing exactly the same way in our first outing this year. Car was running well Friday and Saturday, Sunday morning as I was preparing the car for the first session I noticed a very slight oil sheen in the top of the radiator while checking fluid levels. Checked the dipstick, capture tank, and popped the valve cover off to check for any evidence of water. Finding none, I sent him out with the idea I would re-torque the head as a precaution when he returned. Needless to say the car didn't finish the session. It appears, in our case, that the #2 bearing spun, allowing the piston to slightly tap the head causing it to break the seal on the steel shim head gasket. On the next down stroke it sucked a slug of water and on the upstroke compressed the water and blew out the side of the liner What I don't know is whether the bearing spun (1) due water contamination in the oil, (2) lack of lubrication to the # 2 rod bearing for some reason, or (3) faulty bearing(s). I too, was running a non-hardened stock crank, Carrillo rods, and Tri-metal bearings which I had purchased from BPNW. Same engine block with different crank suffered the same #2 rod bearing failure by previous owner. Same rod from previous failure had been reconditioned by Carrillo, pronounced good and reused. Block had been line bored and cleaned prior to reassembly. On tear down remaining bearings (Main and rod) showed either no damage or slight evidence on galling (probably due to water contamination of oil after the failure). #2 rod bearing was completely wiped out. Surprisingly little (but enough) damage was done to the crank journal. Cam bearings looked perfect. No other damage was noted. There was no blueing of the crank or any other indication that the bearing/journal was running hot. I am about to begin building two new engines this winter. I'm curious to know what bearings you used in your engine, and more importantly, anything else you may have noticed during both teardowns regardless of whether you think it was a factor in the failure or not. Cheers! Mark A. Eden 62 DP TR4 #357 64 HP Spitfire #42 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 14:59:49 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:59:49 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Oct 19 19:14:45 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:14:45 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ $13/Month Car Insurance? Insurance deal just passed now allows you to get car insurance for $13 http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbe42c6bf61d37d0edst02duc From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 19:27:51 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <803584.40062.qm@web46116.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Joe; thanks for the note. I should have clarified Oil temp was 210 water never went above 180. No oil in the water (that happened with the first motor). I am running around 10.5 to 1 compression so clearance is not really a problem. The engine looks really good except for the #2 connecting rod bearing. Weird Thanks!!! Mike ________________________________ From: Joe Boruch To: mike.mehl at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. SeeCollegeDegrees.com From mark at bradakis.com Tue Oct 19 22:10:34 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:10:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBE6BBA.3@bradakis.com> One slight advantage of double springs is that one can be wound left-handed, the other right. A minor detail, but it can help moderate the resonate frequencies and spring surge Larry mentioned. mjb. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:27:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:27:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine failure part 2 Message-ID: We install a bright red light high up on the dash in the driver's line >> of sight that turns on anytime the oil pressure in the main oil galley >> drops below 25 or 30 psi. The pressure switch should not be mounted >> directly on the engine where heat and vibration can cause them to fail, >> but should be on the firewall bulkhead where the flex hose joins the >> solid metal pipe that goes to the oil pressure gauge. >> We set the oil pressure as per the factory manual to 70 psi at 2000 >> rpm with the engine oil at least 160 degree F. With a good oil pump and >> the clearances mentioned above, you should see 90 psi at 6,000 rpm with >> oil up to 200 - 210 degrees with 20w/50 oil. If the oil temp gets to 230 >> it might drop to 80 psi but should never be any less it over 4,000 rpm. >> With all of these mods, there are some corners on some tracks where we >> have seen the low oil pressure light come on for a second or so. These >> have always been high "g" left hand corners that come after hard braking >> zones, ie turn 5 at Laguna Seca, turn 5 at Thunderhill Raceway where you >> brake very hard from about 70 mph while going up a steep hill ,down to >> about 25 mph, then turn left over a severe crest &then go steeply >> downhill while accelerating and turning to the right. The light comes on >> just at the as the car crests the hill. So there is something going on >> in the pan when performing this maneuver with a left turn that does not >> happen then you brake and then turn right! I have yet to understand >> exactly what is going on but the condition certainly exists. With good >> Penn Grade 1 race oil, I have left my foot in it while the red light has >> been on for the second or so and no seen any signs of failure on the >> bearings afterwards. There is still probably 20 psi of oil pressure in >> the main galley and the high quality oil is still able to maintain film >> strength. I have not used an acusump or any other form of supplemental >> oil supply. >> In four or five race weekends with lots of track time and engine RPM >> from ,4,000 to 7,000 , the bearings should NO WEAR that you can measure. >> The surface of the bearing turns darker in color than they were when new, >> but we generally see NO surface "pulling" or damage to the bearing >> surface. >> >> Greg Solow > The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:25:33 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:25:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Engine failure agian part 1 Message-ID: Over the years, it has been our experience that if a TR-4 type engine >>> experiences oil starvation for any reason, number 2 rod bearing will be >>> the first to fail. Exactly why number 2 should fail and not number 3 rod >>> bearing, I cannot say, but none the less that is what happens. >>> To help prevent this what we do is use great oil. We like PennGrade 1 >>> racing 20/50 best. We have also successfully used Torco and Chevron Delo >>> oils. >>> We set the main bearing clearance at .0025 to .00275". The crank will >>> flex at high RPM and high power outputs. By giving it more clearance, it >>> can flex without rubbing on the bearing surfaces. On one high output >>> engine, increasing the main bearing clearance from .00175 to .0025 >>> lowered the engine oil temperature when running on an engine dyno over 50 >>> degrees F. In fact, we had to shut off the oil cooler blowers and put and >>> insulating shroud around the allow oil pan to get the engine oil >>> temperature up over 180 degrees F while running on the dyno! >>> We set the rod bearing clearances at .003" when using "carrillo" style >>> machined steel rods. We have used more with race prepared stock rods >>> which do not stay as round as the aftermarket rods do. We prefer to use >>> Vandervell VP-2 rod bearings for racing. They are the best. >>> Unfortunately, for the most part there are not many left around and they >>> have been out of production for many years. We did have ACL make up 100 >>> sets of trimetal .010" undersize rod bearing a number of years ago. We >>> still have some left. They do not have the load carrying capacity of the >>> Vandervells, but they are the next best thing, and they are available. >>> We drill out the oil holes in the two center main bearing shells so >>> that they are the same size as the holes in the block that feed them. >>> We modify the oil intake hole in the main bearing journal by grinding >>> a "leading" scoop the same width as the oil groove in the main bearing. >>> When looking at the crank from the front, with the oil hole in the main >>> bearing journal facing up, all of the grinding should be to the right >>> side of the oil hole. As the crank rotates, you want it to scoop oil out >>> of the reservoir of oil that is in the groove in the bearing and force it >>> down the drillings toward the rod bearings. ( Volkswagen 1600 air cooled >>> engine cranks were manufactured this way, it wasn't my idea!) >>> We modify the oil pickup so that it's opening faces down against the >>> bottom of the oil pan, with about 3/16" clearance between the bottom of >>> the pan and the screen on the bottom of the pickup. >>> We measure the oil pressure in the main oil galley running down the >>> side of the block, not at the original location at the oil filter head. >>> This is very important. The original measuring point is right at the >>> output from the oil pump. You want to measure the pressure just before >>> the feed to the bearings so if there were a blockage anywhere in the >>> system before the bearings, you would see it. The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 20 02:41:33 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:41:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01cb7032$9aa01810$cfe04830$@com> I run 0.0027 for the mains because of crank flexing. The good thing with the smaller rod bearing clearance is that you don't need much oil to lube them. I found that with the stock suggested clearance the rod bearings started to get thirsty at revs beyond 4000. I found the oil pressure dropped from 90 to 70 PSI at 6000 rpm. With that small clearance the pressure remained at 90-95 even at hot days. And after a race I have 50-60 PSI at idle speed (1300 rpm). Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jim Gray [mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 02:52 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Chris, What kind of clearance do you use at the main bearings ? Thanks, Jim Gray # 102 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:00 PM To: 'Triumph Friends of' Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 08:42:24 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:42:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. Thanks, Jim G From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 21 08:55:36 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:55:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Greg Solow Message-ID: THank you Greg for your input on # 2 rod bearing failures......That is what the FOT is about !! From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 21 08:57:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:07 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F7A16156-760-15CB@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:11 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 11:08:49 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 11:16:59 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: In an admittedly shameless self plug - DashWare which can be downloaded at www.chasecam.com allows comparing data from any logger. So you can compare your traqmate data to AiM etc. -Mark On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, wrote: > FoT > > Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to > compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > > Thanks, > > > > Jim G > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/markvaden at gmail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 21 11:17:58 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:17:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 race car and parts for sale Message-ID: <4CC075C6.1070503@pobox.com> I have the following for sale: - TR3 vintage race car - close ratio gearbox mated to A type overdrive set up for racing - complete rearend, 4.55 ratio, Salisbury LSD, Southwick axles For more information see www.tildentechnologies.com/TR3 or contact me off list. I have had this car for sale for a while, but until now I haven't made much effort to sell it. If the rearend and overdrive/transmission don't sell as is, I will be parting them out. -Larry From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 15:35:31 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:35:31 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <001001cb7167$e4309370$ac91ba50$@com> Hmmm....looks like stoneage equipment to me. I use a stock fuel gauge for measuring. I don't even have to move out of the car to know how many (or much) fuel I have. Chris :-) -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von toodamnfunky at comcast.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Oktober 2010 19:09 An: jhouathome at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Data logging OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 17:26:50 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:26:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Message-ID: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:31:44 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:31:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Here it is !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101021233147.A393B187647@autox.team.net> Now that's funny, thanks for the laugh bill. That reminds me, I need to pull my turbo encapulator this winter. I noticed a little immodial interaction with the panacoptic marzel vanes in Topeka. Hopefully it's just the reciprocating dingle arm rubbing on the phase detractor. Jim G _____ From: BillDentin at aol.com [mailto:BillDentin at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:01 PM To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: JHOUATHOME at aol.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net Subject: Fwd: Fw: Here it is !!! Of course, I'm just pullin your chain, but if you like things technical, take a gander at this video the rabid dentist sent me. Bill or is it, rapid dentist. It's one of the two. From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:57:42 2010 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > >> FoT >> >> <<> to >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >> >>> >> >> > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > running > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > Bill (Damdinger) > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Oct 21 20:53:14 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Lee Gaskin Morgan Plus 4 Message-ID: A club member is considering pruchasing a TR4 engined Morgan owned and raced by a Lee Gaskins out of SC. He asked if I have heard of him and I have not. Does anyone from the southest know of him and /or the car. The buyer is curious, and tempted but needs a litttle push before he jumps into vintage racing. If he hears good things about the car I think he'll bite. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 21:17:40 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:17:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 22:22:01 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:22:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 22:45:34 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:45:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Message-ID: <285161.82438.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Chris, Thanks for sharing your experience. Your steel work reminds me of the angle iron holding my tranny lip, where the clutch solenoid attaches. Whoever had this tranny before me did something wrong and broke that section of lip off, the part where the solenoid attaches. A bit of small angle resolved the issue for the past 10+ years. Jack -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx [mailto:tr4racing at googlemail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:22 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; 'Jack Brooks' Subject: AW: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 21 23:46:45 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 00:46:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 22 03:49:16 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:49:16 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Gentlemen, Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly drew up on my request. Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as it is 1.7 meg. If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the members of the FOT? I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. Cheers! Alex [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 22 06:14:20 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:14:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401A80646@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> We're looking forward to it. Fingers crossed - brand new motor. We're hoping it all works as planned! Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri Oct 22 00:46:45 2010 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From BillDentin at aol.com Fri Oct 22 08:55:08 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:55:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <1ef17.567768d5.39f2ffcc@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2010 12:47:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jason at multivintage.com writes: > This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" > for > Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars > entered > in the race. This will be a good one to watch. > Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing > me > (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in > a > sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to > any > FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr > attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of > racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! > Amici... Jason's choice of the word 'craziness' is almost less than descriptive. Horsepower, Performance, and Talent disparity in vintage race groups is not uncommon, but forty-five particularly eclectic cars in the Vintage/Historic race group on Blackhawk Farms' two mile circuit tomorrow strikes me as a potential CLUSTER F*CK, and caused me to pull my originally entered Tornado Talisman in favor of my trusty old TR3. The Talisman is enclosed, slow, and lacks necessary rear view options. At least in my TR3 I'll be able to see who hits me. The V/H group is full of 911s and far more modern iron than I am used to. Scott Barr's 'real race' group is full of Miatas (we all know how nice they play). His race will clock 100 miles. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, is racing his Lola T-598 S2 in another 100 miler. The weather report adds another degree of difficulty to the mix: Saturday Cool and Rain; Sunday Cool and Showers. But let's face it, it could be worse. This track lies on the boarder between Illinois and Wisconsin. I remember LOOOONG RACE events were we had SNOW. This is the 40th LOOOONG RACE event, and I have probably run 75% of them (since they started adding 'vintage' sessions. This is a GREAT family event, with Trick or Treating for the kids (around the track to the corners) on Saturday, and the infamous Big Wheel races out on the front straight on Sunday. After watching the adults race all week end, it is a joy to behold the kids race their bikes, trikes, and big wheels out on the track on Sunday. This event is a great way to end the season here in the Midwest. And, of course, Wine and Cheese Lite in the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team garages on Saturday night. Bill Dentinger From cofrog at q.com Fri Oct 22 10:29:02 2010 From: cofrog at q.com (Dan Forgey) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:29:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: All of you guys put your sticks away and behave...... > From: stutzmans at comcast.net > To: BillDentin at aol.com; toodamnfunky at comcast.net; fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > > > > >> FoT > >> > >> << >> to > >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > >> >>> > >> > >> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > > running > > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > > > Bill (Damdinger) > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cofrog at q.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:40:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: <1165269D-B86E-4B55-A8B4-F46661AA3FF2@bnj.com> I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Oct 22 10:41:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:41:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC1BEBE.2050605@pobox.com> The J type overdrive alone is not expensive, because they were used in Volvo's up into the 90's. I see them on ebay for as little as $100. However, in order to mate it to a TR transmission, you need the output shaft, adapter and a few other parts. I believe someone is casting the adapter, check Quantum Mechanics. On 10/21/2010 10:17 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:43:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:43:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! Message-ID: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? I just sent this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. My driving seems to have deteriorated a bit this year. I think I'm not getting enough track time. I might look for an SCCA ride. Maybe pick up an old Radical and beat the crap out of myself. I tried a Miata two years ago and enjoyed the group--what a bunch of bastards. Right up my alley. and the end result was this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:44:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark part deux Message-ID: Obviously doesn't happen all the time, but the reformatting is funky too. From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:47:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:47:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Hi Alexandre, I'd like a copy of the .pdf -- and yes, the list server will zap the attachment. You can embed a link to it instead, if you send me a copy I'll set that up for you. Bill On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > Gentlemen, > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly > drew up on my request. > Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our > standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer > horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while > having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) > Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as > it is 1.7 meg. > If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the > members of the FOT? > I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. > Cheers! > Alex > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 22 17:54:39 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge update 10-22-2010 Message-ID: <7928218F-1826-4FEC-9840-DA9D54EAEB7C@aol.com> Amici, Nothing new. Just a few more badges sold. Total is now 65. Price is still $30 Payment is either PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) DEAD LINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Thats only 10 days away. thanks 'Chris From jerrybarr at charter.net Sat Oct 23 19:33:51 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Short race Message-ID: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 23 19:34:16 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:34:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: can someone help me identify the differences with various steeering arms used on TR4-6 (this is the part that bolts onto the vertical link and the rod end taper fits into) accoording to the parts books, these arms differ on every model TR4-6. they all bolt up to the same upright and all have the same tapered hole for the rod end, so what are the differences ?? not having several to put side by side, I suspect they may be different offsets/heights to change bump steer characteristics. thanks, Terry O'Beirne, Australia Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, 4305 Queensland, AUSTRALIA ph 07-32018866 fax 07-32017079 www.roadandtrack.net.au From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sat Oct 23 19:43:46 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:43:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> References: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> Message-ID: Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ > seacubeco at aol.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 24 12:14:59 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:14:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] James Gray Payment for Badge Message-ID: <164265C3-7899-45B5-83EF-D253AE2B316A@aol.com> James, I received your payment. Thanks From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 24 15:57:53 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:57:53 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: thanks to the various people who emailed me privately about this i have confirmed the steering link arms, top wishbone, and steering rack ends all changed dimensions when they moved to 3 degree caster. The factory TR4A book gives dimensioned drawings of the parts, early & late, so I can now identify them what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, and the repair manuals make no mention of this the steering arms for zero & 3 degree caster are quite different to look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the improvements Terry O'Beirne From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 16:15:56 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:15:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 17:28:46 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Message-ID: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > tutorial on how to > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block The document can be downloaded from: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c Merci, Alexandre! Randall From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 24 17:41:58 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:41:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <424c8.4f23fdde.39f61e46@aol.com> Thanx for posting that. It's precisely what I wanted to do on the GT6 for years but never got around to it. I'd heartily recommend a similar mod for the GT6 racers out there...Steve In a message dated 10/24/2010 4:29:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, TR3driver at ca.rr.com writes: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 24 19:07:28 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 18:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <489098.84937.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Jerry and his son Scott were sharing Scott's Spitfire Saturdaay at the Midwest Council's Lonnng Race. Jerry went out for the first session and came in at the end saying he couldn't shift. Issue was diagnosed as three broken new ARP flywheel bolts where at least on of the bolt heads was jammed between the disk and pressure plate. Short race weekend. Still it was nice hanging out at the last race of the year, at least around here. Weather was rainy at times but mostly nice. --- On Sat, 10/23/10, christopher bock wrote: From: christopher bock Subject: Re: [Fot] Short race To: "Jerry Barr" Cc: ".Triumph List" Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 8:43 PM Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/seacubeco at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ehusmann53 at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 25 00:30:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:30:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000b01cb740e$2a356e60$7ea04b20$@com> I like the short early TR4 arms most. They give a very crisp steering - like a gokart. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Randall Gesendet: Montag, 25. Oktober 2010 00:16 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 25 09:13:05 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:13:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. -Larry On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to > look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the > improvements > > Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:22:47 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:22:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Message-ID: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Not really, bump steer is a kind of random thing. The only way to eliminate it completely is to have the suspension and the steering arms moving in exactly the same way as the suspension bumps. If the steering arms were parallel to the upright and in the plane of the wheel then changing their length would have no effect on bump steer, but they aren't, so changing them varies both the angle of the tie rod and the outer pivot point. It's almost a cut and try approach, it's hard to figure out which way to go without a simulation since so many parameters change. Having other arms available is a godsend. I had to make arms for Peyote to get it close. I have a pretty good collection of stock arms. You can also reverse the arms side to side. Offers lots of combinations. With a drag link type of steering it is difficult to change other parameters. You can bend the link arms, and with a lot of work you can move the steering box and drag ling up or down. With a rack it's a little easier--you can shim the rack up and down. TR4 racks are too wide, the pivot points for the tie rods are outside the plane of the upper and lower suspension pivot points. Not an easy fix, I haven't found any rack that really narrow enough for these cars. Peyote has a rack from an old Isuzu station wagon that comes pretty close. The good news is that you can minimize bump steer within the range of suspension travel, but with a steering system so far from optimal you can't really eliminate it. You also have to watch camber gain at the same time, but that only comes from the relationship of the upper and lower suspension arms. Shortened upper arms can give a lot of camber gain. On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:13 AM, Larry Young wrote: > Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. > -Larry > > On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >> the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to >> look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the >> improvements >> >> Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:38:56 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:38:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Message-ID: Oh, and I forgot to mention that changing the spacers on the steering arms is a nice, easy, small increment way to adjust for less bump. It moves the outer pivot point in or out by a small amount and so changes the bump steer. I've said this before, but for completeness: You want the pivot points of the upper and lower arms and the steering link to line up in the same plane, for both outer and inner pivots, and you want an imaginary line drawn through all three arms (upper and lower suspension and steering link) to intersect the same point. But since the only real way to achieve that is to start with a clean sheet of paper, varying any of those parameters--the inner and outer pivot points and the angle of the arms--will change bump steer. Since you're fiddling with an existing system the best you can do is play with those parameter you can change and see if you can minimize bump steer within the limits of suspension travel. From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Mon Oct 25 16:24:35 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:24:35 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: Steering rack length...... thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front suspension component differences there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in various kit cars. I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in changing bump steer in any triumph http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html Terry O'Beirne From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 25 17:24:32 2010 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (William Collins) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:24:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Koni adjustment on '72 Spit Message-ID: Just got my Series 80-1389 Konis back from True Choice after rebuilding and adding 30%. They are going on my '72 spit racer with GT6 suspension. We think the front springs are at least the 330's, but Ed Barnard suspects they're a little heavier. The rear is the latest version for the 1500 that Ed desprung and bushed for racing loads. The diff is welded. Wondering how many turns off full hard to set these things to start. Anybody got a thought? Bill Collins From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 17:35:10 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:35:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <034467AF-B159-4BD4-923A-6B512981F2FB@charter.net> From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 18:02:01 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice article, very useful. On a TR3 the width of the upper pivots is about 432mm and the lower pivot is 585mm, so you can see the challenge of fitting a Triumph rack when the narrowest is 650mm. For the street car I'm building I did indeed use a TR4 rack--at least I assume it is, I bought the kit from Moss. I roughly measured it, it looks to be 650 mm wide and is 2.5 turns lock to lock. I anticipate doing a bunch of fiddling to minimize bump steer. I considered shortening the rack, but I figured I'd play with it a while before I take that step. I don't recall the width of Peyote's rack, but it's quite a bit narrower than the TR4. At the height I have it installed in Peyote (roughly midpoint between the upper and lower arms) it's pretty close to being in line with a line drawn through the upper and lower inner pivots. Pat Starr installed it initially, but I changed the mounting height and had it narrowed a little further in my efforts to eliminate bump steer. As I recall I had an inch taken off both ends. I didn't dare go much further. I also had flat steering arms made. As it turns out it has some positive ackerman though I wasn't paying much attention to that when I was fiddling. On Oct 25, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 18:38:09 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:38:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Scott says try plain text so here we go. From billdentin at aol.com Mon Oct 25 20:03:36 2010 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:03:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers In-Reply-To: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> References: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Message-ID: <8CD42C922937106-758-66D1@webmail-d036.sysops.aol.com> <<< Scott says try plain text so here we go. >>> ______________________________________________ Jerry... Yeah! I think Scott's on to something. So far...that part's perfect. Bill (Damdinger) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:18:59 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <20101026061827.7D7F018765D@autox.team.net> Randall, thanks for the link! The bit at the end about checking clearance with clay cannot be emphasized enough. Don't ask me how I know. :( - Tony Drews At 06:28 PM 10/24/2010, Randall wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > > tutorial on how to > > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block > >The document can be downloaded from: >http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c > >Merci, Alexandre! >Randall >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:41:44 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:41:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101026064112.4E84718765B@autox.team.net> Wow. Another great article. We've really had some stellar technical content in the last couple of month on this list. I'm really pleased with that! Tony Drews At 05:24 PM 10/25/2010, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >Steering rack length...... >thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front >suspension component differences >there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 >family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by >machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in >various kit cars. >I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted >on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in >changing bump steer in any triumph >http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > >Terry O'Beirne >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 08:10:49 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:10:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD432EBA1D9576-F40-9520@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Mid-Ohio in 2002 THE VINTAGE TRIUMPH #83 SUMMER ISSUE SIX PAGES OF COVERAGE PLUS THE COVER....PHOTO OF CARS AND FOT. EIGHT CARS FROM BRITAIN. 45 entries.......results, etc, etc. (This event spawned the Kastner Cup series following a conversation with Kas) I found a number of copies of this historic FOT event. $10 by check or PAYPAL will get you a copy. Check in with me first to insure I have any left. First come...... Joe Alexander 645 1st ST Jesup, IA 50648 PayPal n197tr4 at cs.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 08:55:51 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:55:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 09:20:52 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:20:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE In-Reply-To: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> References: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD433880F6BA0D-1B04-42B15@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> yup....40th 50th now looking at 60th. MID-OHIO 1992 was the first big event we ran..Sean drove. That year was a milestone for the Alexanders......and all influenced by Wismer, Dentinger, Brick, et. al. MID-OHIO 2002 caused me to invite Kas, although I had never met him. Then the following year Kas & I initiated the Kastner Cup. Magical Stuff. Of course this all led to Kas writing 3 books with a 4th Book just days away from printing...in Iowa, BTW. Mid-Ohio 2002 in the VTR magazine is timely reading as it sets the stage for 2012. Not that far away....maybe 18 months or so. Planning is well advanced on the 60th Anniversary of the Sports Triumph. 50 Triumphs at this event will not be an unreasonable expectation and it will be very international. But wait....could Laguna Seca be in our future first? This has been announced for June of 2011, but details are still being worked on. Joe Alexander -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: n197tr4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 10:48:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:48:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250 HOOD AND TRUNK BADGES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD4344CB5CC847-598-357@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> I'd say these BADGES are exceptional and they are on eBay. Thought I'd better let the FOT know just in case. From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 10:59:01 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Racer Premiums @ The Loooong Race Message-ID: <4eb28.6fde8d5e.39f862d5@aol.com> Amici... Chicagoland Sports Car Club (Midwestern Council) gave out a bunch of racer premiums at the Loooong Race at Blackhawk Farms Raceway this past weekend. These included a large event poster, a thermal beer can holder, some Halloween hand out candy, and even a pocket comb. The poster is particular nice because it pictures a fine TRIUMPH TR4 race car at speed and getting ready to lap an MGA. Very nice! I don't have enough hair left to make the pocket comb worth keeping, so I'll probably put it on eBay. Bill (Damdinger) From rfdeanes at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 15:18:34 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is good stuff, nice article. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track < enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au> wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:56:00 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:56:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR national convention at Jekyll Island Marty From budscars at comcast.net Tue Oct 26 18:14:56 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video References: Message-ID: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in 1969...Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w > > > Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR > national convention at Jekyll Island > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From bownes at seiri.com Tue Oct 26 18:20:47 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> References: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Message-ID: Awesome. Nice to see the old girl still has it in her. Surprised the front roll hoop got removed. That car is great fun. Bob On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:14 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in > 1969...Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" > To: "FOT" > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w >> >> >> Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR >> national convention at Jekyll Island >> >> Marty >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net >> > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Tue Oct 26 20:46:29 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] John Frifirici Badge payment Message-ID: John, Your payment has been received. Thank you Chris From jmwagner at greenheart.com Wed Oct 27 11:59:53 2010 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:59:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1960 MGA Roadster Racer - $11500 (Mt Morris) Message-ID: <4CC86899.1040705@greenheart.com> Just thought this might be of interest... found while surfing... http://buffalo.craigslist.org/cto/2027408160.html From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 27 23:58:30 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:58:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! In-Reply-To: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> References: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CC91106.6000502@bradakis.com> First off, let me apologize for the delay. I've gotten WAY behind in a number of things, many related to Triumphs, both real and virtual. Sorry folks, but I will be working on getting caught up on things. Bill Babcock wrote: > Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? > Most likely it is the demime filter that each Team.Net message passes through before getting sent to the list. The filter I am using currently seems to have some other issues. One of these days I plan to try out using the demime filters built into Mailman. For those who don't know, the filters turn HTML formatted mail into plain text, strip attachments and such. I feel that is needed on all the email lists, it isn't an issue with forum posts. But at the moment I have other priorities demanding my time, so it might be a while. Maybe the FOT list will be a good testing ground when I do get to it. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 28 00:37:08 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:37:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC91A14.4020409@bradakis.com> Nice. You know, since I couldn't make it to Heartland Park in August I should have reset my sights on the VTR meet. I haven't been to one since Breckenridge. The 2011 convention will be quite a bit closer, perhaps I'll have a driveable Triumph by then. The glacial pace at which I've been progressing lately on various projects, though, might preclude having a decent car by then. I would love to have Killer back on the road (and track) again for next summer, though. Too much time at the computer, not enough time in the garage! mjb. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 07:56:04 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:56:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT, Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. Jim G. From igofaster at att.net Thu Oct 28 08:32:32 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <385051.78802.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 11:38:44 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:38:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. Same head and carbs. Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 13:12:59 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:12:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Jim, Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the pants dyno ? I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. I do plan to buy his valves though. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: "fot" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:38:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > B B Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. B In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. B At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. B I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. B Same head and carbs. B Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". B At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. B The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. B Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > B B -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 13:33:36 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:33:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9D010.6020600@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 3:12 PM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > > Jim, > > Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't > mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the > pants dyno ? > > I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. > > I do plan to buy his valves though. > > Jim G. > Sorry Jim, the only dyno w/i 5 hours of here closed just before I could get there. With this setup, and the carbs still pig-rich, I can light the tires in second gear. Couldn't to that before. I haven't been in a drag race with my Saturn SL2 but I'm sure the TR would leave it in the dust. jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 28 17:11:24 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc From jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com Thu Oct 28 18:43:05 2010 From: jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com (john preston) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:43:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Bobby, I have always used Rotella to break in an engine...high compression full race and regular street engines. Rotella has a higher Zinc and Magnesium content that helps to bed in bearing surfaces gradually during the initial warm up....how and why I do not know..gnomes I guess. I ran each engine at idle or slightly elevated until warm then ran it up the tach midway...NO RELINE. Then swapped it our for Valvoline or Mobile full race. Then run very easy on the first few laps, and push it, but not red line on the last. Then go great guns on the next session. It has worked so far. There is a dyno shop about 5 mins from my house and they will NOT run a new engine on the dyno without Rotella. Good luck, John P > From: jaboruch at netzero.net > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 +0000 > To: igofaster at att.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in > > Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle > (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change > the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that > for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as > what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track > session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that > the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it > would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it > to speed, but so far have not had a problem. > > The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do > about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the > temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than > running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: FoT Triumph > Subject: [Fot] engine break-in > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) > > After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I > finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm > registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs > break > in oil. > So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? > run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should > I > run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home > after > (optimistically) I run through the weekend. > Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth > for > 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 > minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... > > All the best, > Bobby Whitehead > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hate Carrying Pet Food? > Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 19:10:11 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:10:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by then. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:11 PM To: igofaster at att.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Oct 28 23:04:21 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:04:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home Message-ID: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Anyone got a use for a TR3 engine block? I've got several of them that need to find new homes soon ... if no one wants them they'll go to the scrap yard. I've got kind of a storage crisis, caused by the loft in my garage collapsing. (No, the blocks weren't in the loft, but I need to clear out the space below so I can replace the rafters.) Not sure of condition, or even how they came to be in my possession (they've been laying around for at least 20 years), but there is nothing obviously wrong with the one I have out now except some surface rust and maybe a broken stud or two. Main caps & liners (83mm, might be original) are included, pretty everything else that can be removed has been. I would prefer local pickup, but we can probably work something out if you want to pay for shipping. Randall From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:07:43 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emery ville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101029060716.AB8C2187645@autox.team.net> My head has stock diameter valves and was a comptune flow, but uncle jack got even more out of it. Wish I had asked him what he did. I do not have the flow numbers, but all work was verified on a flow bench. With the 87 mm liners, I have as good a flow as we got with the oversized valves. What happens is that the valve is so close to the edge of the liner that it shrouds the outside of the valve and effectively reduces its diameter. If you are running 89 mm or larger liners you'll have a better chance of gaining an advantage with the oversized valves. I agree they are works of art. The stuff that seems to OBVIOUSLY improve flow does not actually improve flow. There are certain key areas in the port that really matter, unfortunately I don't know exactly where they are. - Tony At 08:56 AM 10/28/2010, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: >FoT, > >Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to >the big valves > >so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > > > > >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > >"optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > >"this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size >of the inlet valves does > >NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > >I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > >I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > >Jim G. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:30:06 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:30:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> Message-ID: <20101029062931.9E217187669@autox.team.net> Oops - too long, forgot to . The 20 to 25 minutes at 2000 to 2500 (with high zddp oil) is key to the cam and lifters. I do that with every rebuild in the garage. That's usually a great time to have a beer to celebrate and to let me neighbors know that I still have the race car. - Tony Drews At 08:10 PM 10/28/2010, Norlin Engineering wrote: >>My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as >>I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 >>rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin >>oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his >>recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and >>they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by >>then. >> >>Jim From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 29 00:36:43 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:36:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home In-Reply-To: References: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <049801cb7733$a6efc540$0301a8c0@randall> > Randall, where are you located? My apologies, should have included that. I (and the blocks) are located near the Long Beach, CA airport, about 20 miles south of Los Angeles. Randall From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Fri Oct 29 00:52:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: Message-ID: If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 29 06:27:05 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grill badge update 10-29-2010 Message-ID: <2D303FA5-EE1B-4174-BB4E-C19FC235F3C6@aol.com> Amici, Today is Friday and I have news! There is only the weekend to decide if you want one or not! But that isn't all the news I have. I will be getting the first sample badge this weekend. I will have actual pictures and I will be posting a video on YouTube of it Monday night. There are 74 badges sold do far. I am pushing the deadline to Wednesday at 9am! That should give everyone time to see the video and ask for pictures. I don't have a place to host the pics so just ask for them if you want them. Payment is paypal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia ave, Vineland, NJ 08361). If mailing please let me know so i can have an accurate count. Thanks From gasket.works at gte.net Fri Oct 29 07:42:47 2010 From: gasket.works at gte.net (gasket.works at gte.net) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:42:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 29 08:03:24 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:03:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire engine with clean oil through it. A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared to start-up bearing wear. On Oct 29, 2010, at 9:42 AM, gasket.works at gte.net wrote: Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 29 09:40:48 2010 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> References: , <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>, <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: > An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill > the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an > air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire > engine with clean oil through it. > A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared > to start-up bearing wear. Doesn't have to be expensive. We made one from one of those pump-up pesticide sprayers and appropriate hose and fittings. John H. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:09:06 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:09:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:28:14 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bearing lubrication Message-ID: Just a clarification about bearing lubrication. The actual oil film that keeps the crankshaft and camshaft from touching the main, rod or cam bearings is not the oil pressure generated by the oil pump. The oil pump supplies oil to keep the space between the crankshaft and the bearings full. As the crankshaft rotates, it does not remain in the center of the bearing clearance space, but it is constantly being pushed around in that space as it rotates by the loads that are applied to it. As it moves around, it pushes a "wedge" of oil just in front of the spot where the maximum load is applied at that moment. The crankshaft "rides up" as it were, on that wedge oil. That wedge of oil is what keeps the crank separated from the bearings. If the supply of oil is interrupted, for even and instant, the wedge or oil is lost. Then all that is separating the metal parts is the "film strength" of the oil in question.. The film strength is determined by the type of base stock of the oil, and the additive package. The viscosity of the oil plays a part in this to a certain extent also. Thicker oil is harder to force out from between the moving parts than thinner oil is, but the viscosity is probably more related to the clearances between the parts. With tighter clearances, you can run thinner oil, but tighter clearances require more rigid and stiffer parts that will not flex or bend. After market steel rods are not only much stronger than the originals, but are much stiffer, and hold a rounder hole for the rod bearings. But due to the 3 main bearing crank, the lack of journal overlap & the stroke of the engine, the crank is not very rigid, no mater who made it. Under the loads of high horsepower & high revs, it moves and bends all over the place. A friend who used to work on AA Fuel drag Chrysler Hemi engine told me they had terrible problems wiping out the main bearings because of crank and block flex until they gave the main bearings .010" or so clearance and used 70 SAE weight oil to keep the pressure up. This let the crank and block move around without actually touching one another. Greg Solow The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:38:55 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:38:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: <001801cb7741$02ae7b80$080b7280$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <1CCE8B51FCC348C6B307A4FB3E29607C@your89d26e0447> You may be able to contact Shell Oil technical services in Europe..They could tell you the Zinc and Phosphorus content of the Shell Rotella oils available in Europe. I would bet they are the same as here. The "automotive Diesel" grade oils that are sold here, were formulated for European Diesel engine cars to meet the car manufacturer's specs. You are looking for over 1600 parts per million of Zink and 1300 parts per million of Phosphorus. Greg Solow From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Oct 30 02:17:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:17:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system In-Reply-To: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Message-ID: <001201cb780a$dc60f960$9522ec20$@com> To pressurize the oil after engine assembly I have a dummy oil pump drive which I rotate with a drill. When the oil pressure gauge shows 50 PSI then everything in my opinion is ready to fire up. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Greg Solow Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 08:09 An: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Betreff: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 30 06:46:18 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 07:46:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and lifter combination are run together? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Sat Oct 30 01:09:06 2010 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 30 08:21:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube Message-ID: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> We should let Greg answer, but when I reassemble an engine using existing cam and lifters I use a thin coating of cam lube and pump oil all over it. I've used the stuff in the little yellow tub that Ken G. sends out with his camshafts and also bought the CompCam cam oil for this purpose. Then I just worry about oil pressure prior to startup, then seating the rings. Greg noted how he does not use Moly paste on bearings. I think this is a worthy thread on it's own. I have the Redline white assembly lube, the moly paste, and a couple of brands of the sticky red goo that I use differently depending on the situation. I think I have been using them incorrectly and I'd like to learn what is correct. Fot example, I use the red goo for bearings on new engines but when I replace bearing in situ I have been using the moly paste because it doesn't run all over the place. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barr, Scott" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system > > >> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period >> each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and >> lifter combination are run together? >> >> Scott From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 15:02:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <5B6FEE5698B54CE3B1A238D9A1AC9B30@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <1464572A20A140A98E7CFB76533082A6@your89d26e0447> Most of the cam grinders supply assembly lube paste with their cams. We can supply tubes of Moly paste for under 10.00 a tube made by "Lubromolly" a German company. "HRL" used to supply it. There are a lot of different suppliers. they are probably all ok as long as the contain Molybdenum di Sulfide as the primary extreme pressure additive. We try to use this past on all iron to iron (cam & lifters) or steel to steel (rocker arm tip to the end of the valve stem, that are subjected to very high contact pressures and rubbing contact any time the engine has been freshly assembled, but especially when the parts are new and have never run together. For the rest of the engine, crank, rod bearings, piston to pin, rings, piston skirts, rod bush to pin, rocker shaft to rocker arms, oil pump, timing chain and tensioner, cam bearings and journals, front and rear seals, & so on, we think it is appropriate to use oil. Good 50 weight racing oil fortified with a liquid Moly supplement is what we use. We make it up by mixing a 50/50 mix of the engine oil with a good liquid engine oil supplement that contains a high amount of Moly. I do not have an exhaustive list of suppliers, but "Mr Moly" & "Slip", are two that I have used over the years with good success. It may be that in this application, the Moly may not make any difference, but that what is important is the liberal application of high quality 50 weight Racing oil. The 50 SAE oil will not drain away in storage, (unless it is for a very long time). It may be that the Moly just makes me feel good by its' presents! Using assembly lube paste where there are bearings (ie. actual bearing material like on a typical rod bearing) can destroy the bearing upon startup. The paste can be thick enough do to this. "Don't ask me how I know this!" A lot of "production engine rebuilders" use thin, lightweight bearing assembly grease on bearings in engines that might be "on the self" for a long time before they are used. "Lubriplate" makes an assembly lube grease that is lightweight and white in color for this purpose. It has a good reputation. I have never used it for this purpose. All the engines we do are usually put in service within a short time after they are assembled. The purpose of the Lubriplate assembly grease is to insure that the there is lubrication on all of the bearing surfaces if the engine has been in storage for over months or a year after it was assembled. Greg Solow PS Moly as an anti-friction, extreme pressure additive really works. Years ago we did a valve job on an air cooler VW. Just after putting the engine back into the car I drove it over Highway 17 past San Jose to Hayward.The first 30 miles I took it easy, below 55 mph. Then I speeded up to 65 mph on the flat in San Jose, 2 or 3 minutes at that speed and the #1 Exhaust valve would stick in the guide & the pushrod would fall out of position in the rocker arm. Probably excess heat. times I freed up the valve and put the pushrod back in position, each time 3 or minutes at 65 mph, the same thing happened. In Hayward I put in a bottle of "slip" Moly engine oil additive. 75 mph all the way back to Santa Cruz. The valve never stuck again. This was a permanent fix. The Moly really does "plate on" to the surface of the metals and creates a sacrificial sliding surface of molecules that prevents metal to metal contact. From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 31 08:00:40 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:00:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty From cwnfot at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 08:02:11 2010 From: cwnfot at gmail.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SEMA/AAPEX Las Vegas this week In-Reply-To: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> References: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <00cc01cb7904$374f11f0$a5ed35d0$@com> Anyone attending SEMA show in Las Vegas this Tuesday-Friday? I'll be there looking around Wednesday-Thursday (AAPEX on Tuesday), mostly the Central hall. I remember speaking with the Shell Answer Man a couple of years ago about the oils and our cams, way over my head! www.semashow.com Clark Clark W. Nicholls 1972 Stag (LE7931E), 1974 Spitfire (FM14571U) and 1 rusty GT6 needing new owner "Reality, it's not what you think." From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 08:54:17 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:54:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cb790b$7f1ae020$7d50a060$@com> I have no idea what is needed in USA but are forced to use overalls with 3 layer Nomex III. One piece overalls are very comfortable ande if you buy a black one you can work on the car if you have to. Take in account your presumable body weight as these suits don't expand and you have to buy a new one. A really hard job to force myself to stay with 74-76 kg. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von marty sukey Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 15:01 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 09:07:30 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Message-ID: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 09:14:12 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:14:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701cb790e$48344800$d89cd800$@com> For my part I do the re-torquing HOT. After the initial run of about 10-20 min and water at 185F I torque to the desired value. At hot my experience is that you can turn each nut about a quarter turn without loosen them before. And the good thing is that the torque at temperature is more even then. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von EDWARD BARNARD Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 16:08 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 31 09:58:47 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:58:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <076101cb7914$80d09050$0301a8c0@randall> > This > phenomenon probably has > a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. We called it "stiction", a contraction of "static friction". > In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set > the torque > wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the > bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? Definitely loosen and retorque, always. You should also endeavor to meet the torque spec with the nut/bolt still turning. If you let it stop just slightly short of the torque target, stiction will stop the fastener from turning to it's correct final position. I was taught that, if that happens, you must back off and torque again. This isn't so much an issue with the 'clicker' type torque wrenches (which BTW should be recalibrated often, especially if you are having problems), but could be with the beam (or dial) type torque wrenches where it is sometimes hard to watch the pointer while also pulling on the wrench. Randall From LimeyV8 at aol.com Sun Oct 31 09:59:38 2010 From: LimeyV8 at aol.com (LimeyV8 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: <107f9.43b3cd5d.39feec6a@aol.com> In a message dated 10/31/2010 10:22:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. I've only used a 1 piece 3-layer suit. I like it. With a 3-layer suit and no nomex undies, i think its a lot easier to get comfortable out of the car - wear gym shorts and a T-shirt under a 3-layer suit and you can get out of it pretty quick without having to go somewhere else and change. I suppose a 2-piece suit offers a similar advantage (take off the top only) but I'd rather get out of the whole thing. Note: so far, I've only raced in The Sunny South - in a northern climate YMMV I must add this: I think the Cool Shirt is the greatest invention since the wheel - in August at Roebling Road, the heat index was 107 degrees - the most comfortable place to be was in the car in a 3 piece suit, balaclava, and full face helmet - with ice water running thru the Cool Shirt. Cheers, Jack Mc From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 10:34:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:34:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> I prefer the three layer, as much because I have such a lousy memory as anything else. One thing to wash, one thing to remember. I have a lot of balaclavas and socks, mostly because I've forgotten them and needed to buy more at the track. I think if I had underwear I'd be going onto the track without it if I left it at home. Yes, I know tech inspection checks that and its my responsibility to comply. And your point is? On Oct 31, 2010, at 7:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 10:44:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:44:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67550585-DC87-4607-A4EC-F921FD28E586@bnj.com> for any fastener that has critical torque, the standard is to lubricate the threads initially and re-torque by loosening and then retightening, ensuring the fastener is moving when the torque spec is reached. The benefit of all this is to reduce the variables that might leave fasteners with varied actual clamping force. Make certain that you use a washer of proper hardness and lubricate the faces of the washer. Also understand that a fifty year old stud that didn't snap last time might never have been torqued with lubricated threads. You WILL reach a higher degree of stretch with lubricated threads. The prudent first step might be a full set of ARP studs. On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:07 AM, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Lister's: > I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. From igofaster at att.net Sun Oct 31 11:01:49 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659465.92486.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hey Edward and others... timely questions on head torque... Many thanks to Kas and all the others on information relating to 'break-in' of a fresh build... I have to go with Kas as he "has done it this way for 40 years" which was run the engine without blipping up to 2000 rpm for 15 minutes, stop, check everything, if all checks out, re-start run up to 2500 rpm for 5 minutes. Drain break-in oil, change filter, add oil and go racing.... pretty straight forward. Thank FoT and Kas for the treasured information and advice. Now... re-torquing head and adjusting the valves before we go racing. I'm running 10.5 : 1 compression with ARP head bolts and nuts. The service manual calls for head torque @ 65-70 lbs. Shouldn't I be torquing the head more with added compression and ARP hardware? All the best.... Sunday garage time. Beer. Football. Wrenching.... Bobby Whitehead ________________________________ From bownes at seiri.com Sun Oct 31 11:27:08 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 13:27:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some sanctioning bodies don't allow 2 piece suits. IMHO, 3 layer is the only way to fly. Quicker to get into, easier to deal with. Bob On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 31 13:58:41 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:58:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD474D2688B310-1DC4-118DD@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> perhaps the term you are looking for is BREAK AWAY TORQUE. -----Original Message----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:07 am Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 15:47:25 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Help with Mayflower parts Message-ID: <381049.67523.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: Hopefully you have stopped laughing at the subject line. Yes...I wrote Mayflower. Could Andy Mace and/or any other Mayflower owners on the list please email me? I am looking for good stateside sources for Mayflower parts. No, not lightened flywheels, billet rods or roller rockers. Rockers, what was I thinking? All joking aside, I have a Mayflower in the shop I need to order parts for. Thx -Ed- From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sun Oct 31 19:13:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:13:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: First make sure the head and block surfaces are clean and flat and that all of the threaded holes in the block have good clean threads. With studs, screw in the studs hand tight only. Do not tighten studs into a block unless you are sure that the bottom of the stud can hit the bottom of the hole. On a TR4 type engine, the studs do not have as long a bottom as the hole is deep, the stud will thread into the block stop where the threads on the stud end. If you continue to torque the stud into the block, the threads will try to pull the stud down into the hole and the stud will act like a wedge. It will cause the block to crack from the stud hole to whatever the nearest open area is. This is the reason most "tractor" blocks have cracks at the left rear stud hole going to the water jacket. There are improvements to be made here, but that is another storey. So just tighten the studs hand tight. We have found Permetex "Anti-Seize" when used as a lubricant on the head bolt thread, washers and nuts, does not change the torque that is applied, but does help prevent the "sticktion" mentioned in the earlier posts, so that it becomes less necessary to loosen the nuts first during retorquing. So on a TR-4, we apply the anti- seize to the fine threads on the top of the stud, to the top surface of the washer and to the inside of the nut and its' bottom surface. Tighten the nuts using a normal torquing sequence to about 30 lbs. ft., then 50, then 70, then we go to 85 or 90. We use this as a maximum torque. WE no longer torque heads to 105 lbs. ft. as we have not found it necessary, and it only leads to broken and stripped studs and head nuts. Run the engine to get it fully up to operating temperature, then retorque the head hot, to the same torque figure as the initial torque. With a solid steel head gasket, you can try again, but we have found nothing will tighten any more. With a composite (copper/asbestos) or other "non solid sheet" gasket, we hold retorque the head again after a couple of heat cycles. If you wish to loosen each nut before retorqing, there is certainly no harm in doing so. It is good to mark each nut with a scribed line before you loosen it up, so you can tell if it tightened to a position that is tighter than it was in the begining. If I try to tighten a nut or stud, and it will not move, then it is definitely good practice to loosen and then retorque. These general instructions ( except for the torque figures quoted) will hold true for any cast iron block and head combination. Using ARP moly based assembly lube paste on the head nuts and studs will require a reduction in torque of over 30% because it is so slippery. We have tried using the ARP lube and one time actually crushed the raised boss on a TR-4 head above the intake ports. The Anti-Seize works very well. On modern engines the manufacturers no longer (generally) use torque figures for head tightening. The engineers have calculated how much "stretch" on the head bolts they need to get the clamping pressure on the head gasket that they want, & the procedure is to torque to 20 lbs, ft.or less, then use a protractor and tighten the bolt a certain number of degrees from that point, the desired preload is calculated by the pitch of the threads of the bolt. This procedure avoids the variables caused by the friction of the bolt or nut on the threads or the washer and achieves a more consistent clamping force on the gasket. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 31 19:57:51 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics Message-ID: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Amici, I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till tonight. Here is a video link of it. Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT facebook page. The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight to this thing. I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had available at this time. The price is still ONLY $30. The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good count. I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep them coming! total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. Thank you for all who want this. Chris. From invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com Sun Oct 31 20:45:36 2010 From: invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com (James E Roelofs) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:45:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Check out my photos on Facebook Message-ID: <8bb78e0a42c860b20990ff8c7367caab@www.facebook.com> Hi Friends, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, James To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000090934512&k=Z6E3Y5WRUW4CZCFJPB63QUVZR3B 1X33NUWHYFD3BQT&r Already have an account? Add this email address to your account: http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=fot%40autox.team.net&c=e1d8b2 c84ed5c4bb2237931fde46d39f ======================================= fot at autox.team.net was invited to join Facebook by James E Roelofs. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please follow the link below to unsubscribe. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=74f522&u=100001791913713&mid=33826fdG5af37b48 aef1G0G8 Facebook, Inc. P.O. Box 10005, Palo Alto, CA 94303 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 20:53:49 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: Agree on the one piece three layer. I started with the two piece with undies - lots of bits and it all moves around. Went to a two layer one piece with undies - much better, but the new three piece is much better - and in my opinion actually cooler. I still carry the two piece with undies in addition to the three piece for really long weekends. Jim From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 22:16:32 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 00:16:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics In-Reply-To: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> References: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Message-ID: Very nice thanks for all the work please don't let mine touch the mg grill ----- Original Message ----- From: "christopher bock" To: "FoTTriumph" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics > Amici, > I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till > tonight. > > Here is a video link of it. > > Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut > and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" > > Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT > facebook page. > > The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two > studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to > length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired > length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together > or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight > to this thing. > > I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had > available at this time. > > > The price is still ONLY $30. > > The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will > be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. > If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good > count. > > I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep > them coming! > > total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. > > Thank you for all who want this. > > Chris. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net From grandwazoo at earthlink.net Fri Oct 1 18:14:50 2010 From: grandwazoo at earthlink.net (Mike Jackson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 20:14:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Need help looking at "Car in a barn" in Ohio Message-ID: <11224903.1285978490254.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Oct 2 10:07:38 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:07:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Brew Swap Reminder Message-ID: VTR 2010 BREW SWAP 2 A second gathering of suds lovers will take place at this years national convention at Jekyll Island. It will be an informal gathering of friends to share your favorite home brew or that special microbrew that you like so well. The Brew Swap will take place on Monday October 18th in the Hospitality Suite at the host hotel. It will be a prelude to the welcome reception, from 4:30 to 6:30 ish. We will provide the room, tables and some glasses. Bring a six pack of your favorite cold special beverage and possibly some snacks that would go good with beer. Game plan is to mingle and sample others favorite beers. This will give us an opportunity to sample some home brews made by fellow Triumph enthusiast and possibly some micro brews from different parts of the country that you normally would not get to try. We did a brew swap 1 at the 2008 convention and all had a blast. This years brew swap will include a home brew competition so all you hops cookers out there get you best recipe fermenting and see how you do against your fellow brewers. Cheers, Marty Sukey From adcronin at ameritech.net Sat Oct 2 10:23:56 2010 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (Dan Cronin) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:23:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Change of email address Message-ID: <967A3E1B-484C-44E0-BFE8-0F2033DDB3C0@ameritech.net> 10/2 Marty Could not find a location using the info at the bottom of the list email (received) that would allow me to advise you of a change in email address. Looks like I somehow was sucecsfull in changing the TR list an that is now coming to my new address, but FOT---not! At any rate please help by eliminating old address: adcronin at ameritech.net to the new one: adcronin at mi.rr.com (we ditched DSL and went to cable. Thanks, Dan Cronin PS: can't seem to find password...... From walt at hot-tr6.com Sat Oct 2 11:34:50 2010 From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:34:50 -0600 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far enough into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. Thanks Walt Hollowell Abq., NM _____ I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter . SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Sat Oct 2 15:27:20 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:27:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] This TR3 doesn't look too bad Message-ID: <11A551AA-7E65-4147-9BD0-E7B6D5D828E3@earthlink.net> NFI, Just spotted it on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-1960-TRIUMPH-TR3-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f59a6363QQitemZ300473279331QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks ~Steve From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 1 02:38:23 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:38:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 In-Reply-To: <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> References: <000601cb5595$142cf5d0$3c86e170$@camoletti.ch> <8CD23B673068650-1B84-E366@webmail-d068.sysops.aol.com> <6DDB788D-0192-4B9A-8E1E-B82259B18966@bnj.com> Message-ID: <001701cb6144$02a68910$07f39b30$@camoletti.ch> Dear Friends of Triumph! It is a great pleasure and an honour to become part of your fellowship! I had read about it in Mr Kastner's book and wondered how to be part of it. Thank you to Joe for introducing me and to all of you for welcoming me aboard. May I briefly introduce myself: just turned 38 (15 Sep), business lawyer in Geneva (www.rrlegal.ch), Switzerland, old Europe. Aside that I restore classic cars and spend 20 hours /week in the workshop. Started with the TR3A my uncle gave me for my 20th birthday in 1992, which he bought in 63 and laid up in 71. Then you know the story, the quick recommissioning turned into a 11 years 4000 hours concours restoration. In the meantime I also restored a rare dry sump Lotus turbo esprit (1981-2). Last Winter I recommissioned a Bristol 400 1948 for a friend's son who got it for his 20th birthday too (but 17 years later). In 2007 the TR3 seized a valve (Engine rebuilt in UK, not by me, insufficient play at the guides). I took this opportunity to take the engine out and start the period competition preparation I long intended to do. This means that I upgrade the car to period mods only, so that it remains concours. I would not use parts or accessories that would not have existed at the time. I try to use original NOS or SH original parts (for instance for spot lights, additional switches, screen heater, cig lighter, vacuum gauge). Engine is built for long distance events. It is quite a long and painstaking work involving lots of research, to make sure I get and fit the right bits. For instance I got a Derrington wheel made by Moto-Lita (Moto Lita made them for Derrington in the 50s) with the original woods of the 50s they found under a pile in their shed, with the right number of rivets (the modern repro Derrington steering wheel of Moto Lita have more rivets and different woods). As another couple of examples, I fit a front sway bar, but an exact reproduction of the Stanpart factory option, including the exact brackets and hardware. I made a fake bar in copper tube, and made a drawing for production by a specialised company. Like this I have the exact sway bar and fittings the competition dept used. The modern bars are all different. Front competition springs are also made according to factory specs, as new uprated springs (while available in a variety of choices) are all RH helix and certainly more often than not are not shot peened, given the price they are sold) while the factory competition ones were LH helix and shot peened (the stock ones had a RH helix, to differentiate them from the comp ones). I also make the oil cooler fittings myself, exactly as the SAH option came at the time (no adapter plate, fittings welded/brazed directly on the oil canister aluminium head). The factory used the SAH oil cooler option and never produced one in fact. I enclose a short pdf with pixs of the car in its present state and the current work. The books of Mr Kastner prove invaluable in that matter, first because they provide me with the guidance for these cars on what to do or not to make them work fast and well, and how to do it, plus they inform very specifically on what was done at the time on the competition cars, which is the point in my work. I will also retrim the car with a red interior, as I found brand new original Stanpart leather seats (incl. rear seat) in storage in UK since the 70s. The red trim is correct for the BRG paint of the car (being a Jan 59 car, TS42673 LO). When the car will be ready I will certainly build up a website and write a book, as I realised that I am gathering info over my years of research that was lost or no longer known to people (even concours judges), for details such as trim screws, carpet binding material (fi Rexine ref RX17 the original binding material is available again via the book binder business they remade it for), trimming materials (the specific Connolly leather finish which no longer exists on modern leathers but can be made to order), wire colour codes for accessories,....But for now I concentrate all free time in the shop to make the car(s) work (Esprit is waiting a g/box rebuild and a retrim and new exhaust line and turbo and AP Racing brakes). Please accept my apologies for introducing myself 2 weeks after being in the list, work was too much these last weeks! But I read all your posts (and watch the videos as well, at least a bit). I will certainly soon build a proper race car and go racing on the track, when my concours comp TR3 is finally done (but I hope it will be a damn fast road car, competitive on road rallies as well). With my very best regards, Alexandre Camoletti -----Message d'origine----- De : Bill Babcock [mailto:billb at bnj.com] Envoyi : jeudi 16 septembre 2010 17:50 @ : n197tr4 at cs.com Cc : ac at camoletti.ch; fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] FOT SPONSORSHIP ALEXANDRE CAMOLETTI of GENEVA, SWITZERLAND TR3 Sounds like a great addition. On Sep 16, 2010, at 6:01 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote: [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of PixTR3AlexCamolettiOcto2010.pdf] From pcdelux at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 06:28:33 2010 From: pcdelux at verizon.net (William Dewar) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 08:28:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Walt and list, In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but they were for factory aluminum rims. Bill Dewar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Oct 3 08:03:27 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 09:03:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: <001d01cb62f8$ce27aff0$2101a8c0@userka8n276cqy> Message-ID: <319064613AC04E08B896EA2FF133CD95@latitudefb1e41> The knurl diameter on the TR's is .500". I've never found any aftermarket ones in that diameter but these ones listed in the Pegasus catalog should work if you can find the right lug nuts for your wheels. Wheel Studs - Late Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, Short (5-pk) Heat-treated 8740 chrome moly studs have a tensile strength of 190,000 psi to handle the shock loads and lateral forces in racing applications. Pack of 5 studs. Lug nuts are sold separately. a.. Knurl Diameter: 0.509" b.. Knurl Length: 0.315" c.. Nose (unthreaded) Length: none d.. Shank Length: 2.500" e.. Thread Size: M12x1.5 Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dewar" To: "Walter Hollowell" ; Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > Walt and list, > > In the mid-ninties I had a street TR4A with wheel spacers on the front. > I had access to a local parts place back room to sort through lug nuts > and studs. I settled on a Ford Taurus wheel stud and nut in a metric > size. They were longer but more important the knurled part that fit the > hub was sized correct. I don't remember what year Taurus exactly but > they were for factory aluminum rims. > > Bill Dewar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > >> On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 >> Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far >> enough >> into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of >> longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. >> Thanks >> Walt Hollowell >> Abq., NM >> >> _____ >> >> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > >> . >> SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. >> >> Do you have a slow PC? > >> Try free scan! >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/pcdelux at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 3 08:50:58 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 10:50:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 3 09:00:45 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:00:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:14:58 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:14:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001201cb6316$20b738e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi, I'm using studs gotten from Jegs; Summit and most other places sell basically the same thing. They're about 2 3/4 inches long. The hubs need to have the holes enlarged and the studs pressed in. Easy job. I have the reamers if you need to borrow them. My machinest says ream, don't drill. If you don't have a press, use the BFH. I use my Panasport lug nuts that at one time were acorn style (closed end). I chucked them up in my lathe, drilled clear through, them tapped the newly drilled section so they will screw onto the longer studs. All this is pretty easy with the hubs disassembled. Hope this helps. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Sun Oct 3 10:18:45 2010 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 12:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 References: Message-ID: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric crap on my car!!!! It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to carry around. Bill---- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Hollowell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach far > enough > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > Thanks > Walt Hollowell > Abq., NM > > _____ > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > . > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try free scan! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net From triosan at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 11:08:10 2010 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:08:10 +0100 Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <001b01cb6316$a7c44800$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: Best place I have found for lug nuts is at : http://www.ezaccessory.com/Default.asp On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:18 PM, WILLIAM TOBIN wrote: > Almost forgot: I'm still using 7/16 lugs/nuts. None of that furrin metric > crap on my car!!!! > It's just easier to stay standard threads; only one set of taps/dies to > carry around. > Bill---- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Hollowell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:34 PM > Subject: [Fot] wheel studs TR6 > > > > On my TR6 racecar I am using 6mm wheel spacers on the front with 15X6 > > Panasport wheels. I am concerned that the stock wheel studs don't reach > far > > enough > > into the wheel nuts. Do any FOT members have any ideas about a source of > > longer studs and optional wheel nuts for this application. > > Thanks > > Walt Hollowell > > Abq., NM > > > > _____ > > > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter > > > . > > SPAMfighter has removed 112498 of my spam emails to date. > > > > Do you have a slow PC? > > > Try free scan! > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/william.tobin3 at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triosan at gmail.com > > > -- Chuck Arnold and Kathleen Kelley From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 3 15:24:22 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 07:24:22 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re wheel studs TR6 Message-ID: can any of the folk who suggested alternative studs confirm they have taper seats on end of the the stud where it presses into the hub?? (eg TR6). I've never seen a non-british car with this arrangement, and only a few BMC ones had it as far as I know. terry o'beirne, Australia R From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 3 17:09:29 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> References: <50c55.fb74ea.39d9f49d@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD316729CE150B-1EB0-212B0@webmail-m071.sysops.aol.com> With the TR4 neither Sean nor I notice any wheel spin with the Quaife since making some suspension changes a few years ago. It may work even better with GT6 and Spitfire. -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, Oct 3, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Quaife question I put a Quaife in the GT6 back in the day and noticed an immediate improvement on some of the corners at Phoenix International. A big improvement over the open diff. That said, many will remind you that this is a Torque biasing diff and not a locker. If a wheel is in the air it will behave just as an open diff. Still, I think you'll like it a lot with no major surprises.... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From fasttrs at yahoo.com Sun Oct 3 19:54:05 2010 From: fasttrs at yahoo.com (Mike Munson) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] 3.45 gear set Message-ID: <497807.42516.qm@web46111.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am in need of a 3.45 ring and pinion. Anybody out there have one or know where I can get one? Thanks guys. Mike From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 06:04:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 06:04:58 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Marty, I use a Quaife in my tr4/IRS and it works great. I have been told they can still spin the inside wheel on a live axle car. With IRS you shouldn't have that problem. Jim G. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of marty sukey Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:51 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Quaife question I'm running an open diff in the Spitfire. The VTR autox is coming up and I have an opportunity to borrow a quaife for the weekend. I know I cannot keep up with the big dogs with the open diff (among other things) but I am thinking the limited slip might get me closer. I have never driven with a quaife, Nissan diff in the 6 but no quaife. Since I will not have an oportunity to actually drive the car with the quaife until I pull up for my first run my question is, will I be in for any big surprises ? I guess a second question is will it be worth my time and effort? For autox will I be wasting my time? With the open diff I am very traction limited at the start and trying to power out of corners. Your thoughts? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Oct 4 07:49:52 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quaife question In-Reply-To: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> References: <20101004120439.5EBCA187882@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Hi, I've been running a Quaife in my autox-only TR6 for 10 years. I have fairly stiff springs, and a rear bar. To get the car to rotate effectively, you need to run the rear bar at pretty much the stiffest settings. With the Quaife, it is somewhat easy to spin the inside wheel. This is frustrating to me as a driver as I tend to be a little more agressive with my inputs with the predictable reward of wheel spin. Listen to the engine note in any of the vidZ I've posted to U-tooob, you can hear the motor unload. In fact, I get queries on a monthly basis from other autocrossers asking if my cluth is slipping. Nope - it's the Quaife. That said, my input to your question is "put the thing in and drive it." At the very least you'll wind up with a data point on mods for the future. For autocross, pretty much anything is better than an open diff. unless you are smoother than glass with your driving style. But the Quaife is good for a limited slip and much better than an open diff on the one hand an much better than a locker in the other hand. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 09:02:13 2010 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (vintage.racer at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 15:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <898332169.199787.1286204221531.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello: My 1962 TR4 racecar is for sale. Car was on the cover of The Vintage Triumph magazine in August 2007 which also included a feature article. The car is fully race ready and available immediately. Some highlights - less than two hours on rebuilt engine/transmission; Nitride hardened crank; Carrillo Rods; Wiseco pistons; RATCO frame ; Quaffe limited slip diff; Alexander steel flywheel, front axle upgrade; aluminum radiator; rear axle modification; and the list goes on. For photos, full list of car features and list of extensive spares, contact me offline. Thanks. Gary Horstkorta From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:23:08 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:23:08 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Message-ID: Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 From spitlist at cox.net Mon Oct 4 11:34:30 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:34:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From andre at gt6.ca Mon Oct 4 11:36:19 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 13:36:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 11:40:11 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:40:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver References: Message-ID: <0CA5C8D3CCCD4EBB8C345767BC0543C4@Bud> Terrific!!..You guys are Cool! RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "RACER BUD" Cc: Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Vintage raver. I'd be leery of hip issues. :) On 4 October 2010 13:23, RACER BUD wrote: > Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage > racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com > or > 707 766 9405 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From igofaster at att.net Mon Oct 4 11:53:20 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver In-Reply-To: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <20101004173404.NWJ4042.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <573342.29237.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> been listing my 1965 Spitfire raver ?? on eBay the last couple of weeks, it's still available if interested... Bobby ________________________________ From: Joe Curry To: RACER BUD ; fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:34:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Bud, I think he will have much greater success in a search for a Spitfire "Racer" than a Spitfire "Raver". Although I hear that those are all the current rave (or maybe rage). Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: MIKE THE MOLDER GIANANDREA Subject: [Fot] Shopping for spitfire vintage raver Hi gang...Mike Gianandrea in Petaluma ca. is shopping for a vintage racer...Proably a Spitfire...contact mike at sales at mvgmoldedproducts.com or 707 766 9405 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/igofaster at att.net From adcronin at mi.rr.com Mon Oct 4 12:02:08 2010 From: adcronin at mi.rr.com (Dan Cronin) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 14:02:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Listers Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? Thanks, Dan C. From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 4 18:54:04 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] torque 5/16th bolt Message-ID: <533924.91050.qm@web57606.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Friends: Had to split the calipers on the TR7 and now I'm ready to put them back together. The bolts are 5/16th. Information on line indicates the torque should be 14 ft/lbs. Anyone have any other thoughts? Thanks, Ernie From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 4 21:40:33 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 20:40:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spare rocker shaft needed for Spitfire Message-ID: <67EB842D164445F3B4D90509AC39DCF3@Bud> Hi Gang....I broke my rocker shaft on my Spitfire Sunday at Infineon...I installed my spare today....I now need a spare...I need the type with the end braces...stock is fine.....must be cheap! thanks..Racer Bud.... From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 4 23:55:21 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:55:21 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my >TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip >milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and >instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most >think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is >71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the >journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other >options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll >with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 5 01:01:59 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:01:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> I have to admit I am getting lost here. My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the lip seal and it will then groove the crank. Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly 2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them is 63.5. But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your experience with this dimension? Thank you ! Cheers Alexandre -----Message d'origine----- De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la part de Tony Drews Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 @ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the seal. The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. - Tony Drews At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: >Listers >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? >Thanks, Dan C. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ac at camoletti.ch From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 08:57:52 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I took a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. I managed to have my local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group 44" oval white sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. I'm going to offer 1 or 2 for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the USA and I can get it to you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality but heck... at 110 mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and given a few away to some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... So if there are no objections, send me your name and mailing address. If all goes well I will start sending them out next week. We're going to Austin Texas this weekend (my second hometown) for the Austin City Music Festival... not sure I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd of 75000 for three days in a row, but the median age should be around 30 or so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer is the Freakin' Eagles are the headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? How many 30 year olds wanna see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being propped up to do their millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. although balding I don't have one of those little rat tail ponytails either... Bobby Whitehead CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ 1971 TR6 From mlcooknj at msn.com Tue Oct 5 09:09:04 2010 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:09:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The stickers are a nice idea but I'm not sure Bob Tullius will appreciate it. Back in the day, those stickers were applied only to cars that the Group felt were worthy of approval. I got one on my FP Spitfire but they put it on the inside of the trunk lid because it was a Kastner-built car! By the way, I saw the Eagles in concert two years ago and they put on a hell of a show. They've still got it. Mike Cook Bald, no pony tail > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 07:57:52 -0700 > From: igofaster at att.net > To: fot at autox.team.net > CC: GRMTim at aol.com > Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. > > As long as Tim Suddard @ Grassroots Motor Sports and anybody affiliated with > Group 44 wouldn't mind... At the Group 44 40th annual meeting last year, I > took > a ton of pictures of Tim's GT6+ Group 44 car. > > I managed to have my > local print shop use my photos of the "Approved by Group > 44" oval white > sticker duplicated into a couple dozen stickers. > > I'm going to offer 1 or 2 > for free to anyone that asks as long as you're in the > USA and I can get it to > you regular mail. Now, they are not first class quality > but heck... at 110 > mph on a race car who cares... I've got one on my GT6 and > given a few away to > some of my Triumph guys with CVAR... > > So if there are no objections, send me > your name and mailing address. If all > goes well I will start sending them out > next week. We're going to Austin Texas > this weekend (my second hometown) for > the Austin City Music Festival... not sure > I'll be the oldest guy in a crowd > of 75000 for three days in a row, but the > median age should be around 30 or > so... it's our 4th year to go... only bummer > is the Freakin' Eagles are the > headliner Sunday night.... REALLY? The Eagles? > How many 30 year olds wanna > see a couple of old long hair hippie geezers being > propped up to do their > millionth version of "Take it to the limit..." > > Oldest Hippie in the crowd.. > although balding I don't have one of those little > rat tail ponytails > either... > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mlcooknj at msn.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 5 09:44:14 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:44:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> <20101005055445.1FB95187660@autox.team.net> <000f01cb645b$3557a910$a006fb30$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <20101005154345.05E3A18763F@autox.team.net> The instructions that come with the seal call for the crank to be ground to 2.500". In many engine builds using this dimension, Jack and I fought leaking rear seals. Jack eventually discovered that if he had the crank turned to 2.525" rather than 2.500" that he had much better luck in getting the rear seal to work properly. He also shortened the spring supplied with the kit to 8". Prior to using the larger crank diameter, his fix was to cut a little off of one edge of the seal. This is a very inexact fix, and the larger crank diameter worked much better for us. Since my crank is ground to the smaller diameter, I don't have much recent experience with the 2.525" diameter. We never had a problem with the seal "grooving" the crank. I've had one rebuild out of probably 4 where I got the rear main to seal properly. I hope for the best every year. Jack wrote up a series of engine building tips, and I've made it available to everyone here: http://www.tonydrews.com/uncle_jacks_engine_building_tips.htm The larger crank diameter is one of the tips. - Tony Drews At 02:01 AM 10/5/2010, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: >I have to admit I am getting lost here. >My supplier (Simon, from TR Enterprises) in the UK, says crank must be >ground down to 2.5'', ie 63.5mm, anything more puts too much pressure on the >lip seal and it will then groove the crank. >Simon told me it is originally a Land Rover seal and the size is exactly >2.5'', which is logical as it was originally an English fitment. >Moss' leaflet gives a tolerance of +0.1mm, - 0.0 mm. So the minimum for them >is 63.5. >But to go from 63.5 or 63.6 to 64.135 (2.525'') seems a lot more. >Tony, you mean it leaks if crank is ground to 63.5mm? What is your >experience with this dimension? >Thank you ! >Cheers >Alexandre > >-----Message d'origine----- >De : fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] De la >part de Tony Drews >Envoyi : mardi 5 octobre 2010 07:55 >@ : Dan Cronin; Friends of Triumph Triumph >Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll > >For the aftermarket lip seal like is sold by Moss, British Parts Northwest, >and BFE, the correct crank diameter is 2.525". Despite explicit instruction >to use that dimension, my Crower crank was turned to 2.500", as the seal >instructions indicate it should be (incorrectly). I've managed to make it >seal by using a very sharp knife to cut a little bit off of the edge of the >seal. Some rebuilds that works better than others. I also shorten the >spring to a bit under 8" so there's a fair amount of spring pressure on the >seal. > >The seal the Christian Marx developed, marketed in the USA by Joe Alexander >is for stock cranks that have the scroll seal. > >- Tony Drews > >At 01:02 PM 10/4/2010, Dan Cronin wrote: > >Listers > >Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank > >for my TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had > >the rear lip milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective > >thought (manual and instructions for the improved rear main lip oil > >seal) and now find that most think this was in error! Am I right that > >now the proper size for the seal is 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is > >one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the journal be built up by > >hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other options can you > >think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll with the lip >seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > >Thanks, Dan C. > >_ From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Oct 5 10:03:31 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K Message-ID: Hi All, some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which helped but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and not much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put TR3 steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. If you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite to get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc etc but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one piece, 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground flat on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the wheel broke :) Cheers Tony From billb at bnj.com Tue Oct 5 14:55:02 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:55:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Eagles are still amazing. From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Oct 5 15:21:27 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:21:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Indeed they are. Perhaps the best American band. Now, if we just had some modern Triumphs to watch race... And to buy... Terry Stetler. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: michael cook Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. The Eagles are still amazing. From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Oct 5 17:03:52 2010 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 19:03:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K References: Message-ID: Results are obvious Really enjoyed the Watkins Glen show a few years back. JVV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:03 PM Subject: [Fot] quaife in the TR250K > Hi All, > some notes about the quaife.....I,ve got one in the prototype and you can > power through it. I have increased the pre load of the gear stack which > helped > but the the biggest deal is in the set up and driving style. On the set > up....rear bar (.625?) full soft, lots of compression in the shocks and > not > much rebound. The car in general is fairly soft in spring rates. I've put > TR3 > steering arms to quicken up the steering cause i prefer a 'pointy" car. > If > you try this......be careful !! In driving the car....I have to square off > most corners (almost like a double apex) and use the traction/forward bite > to > get down the straight away. yes, I can go to stiffer springs /bars etc > etc > but There is a self imposed responsibility to keep this car in a/ one > piece, > 2/ to keep it as original as possible. The rear bar still has the ground > flat > on the underside were it contacted the pavement at Sebring 1968 after the > wheel broke :) > > Cheers > Tony From igofaster at att.net Tue Oct 5 17:32:18 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 16:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers Message-ID: <67148.26976.qm@web180808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> wow... those went quick... most were doubles and a few asked for more than two... if you've asked by now, you will have your requests mailed tomorrow... if you haven't asked by now.... too late! they're gone! thanks for the interest! cheers! Bobby From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:35:34 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:35:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? Message-ID: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:15 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] studs for tr3 and tr4 and tr6 Message-ID: <8CD32FD6045B6CF-1CFC-3CD3@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> forgot to mention model From jhassall at blacksburg.net Tue Oct 5 18:09:11 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 20:09:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> References: <99921F2D-1DB5-4AAC-B378-F8B4AD80ECA5@mi.rr.com> Message-ID: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 5 18:33:20 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] STUD SPECIFICATIONS AND OR P/Ns ??? In-Reply-To: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD32FD23EF6316-1CFC-3C60@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <716868.33648.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I used the Moroso wheel stud # 46160 on my TR3, TR4, and the TVR - front and rear. ...they are 7/16"/20 x 2 7/8" long .560" dia knurl - a 9/16" drill did the trick Dennis Has anyone a record of their replacement studs?.... 7/16ths front and rear. INFORMATION I SHOULD MAKE A RECORD OF. Thanks... _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/yellow-green at sbcglobal.net From Lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Oct 5 18:41:29 2010 From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 18:41:29 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <590625.9602.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F2C42BB-BF64-43E8-9113-399256CFDE79@earthlink.net> > "one of those little rat tail ponytails" > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR #39 1970 Triumph GT6+ > 1971 TR6 Hummm... Do I resemble that remark? No, I guess not - mine is more like what you'd find on the back of an ass. Oops! I meant donkey. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Tue Oct 5 20:16:47 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:16:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll In-Reply-To: <4CABBE27.4040207@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 5 20:45:24 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> We are also processing a new tool to go with Chris' Viton Seal. It is called MURPHY'S TOOL, courtesy of Tim. Prototypes are being made and they will aid in compacting the felt seal in the rear bearing block. Add this to the new Centering Tool with corrected dimension and maybe we have a better chance to seal nothing should be left to chance. and dont forget engine block ventilation. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gray To: 'J.C. Hassall' ; 'Dan Cronin' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph Triumph' Sent: Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:16 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll I cut the crank and shortened the spring per Jack's instruction plus trimmed the ends to get just the right lip compression on the crank and it still leaked. I'm done with em and going with Cris' seal. Jim G -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of J.C. Hassall Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:09 PM To: Dan Cronin Cc: Friends of Triumph Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll On 10/4/2010 2:02 PM, Dan Cronin wrote: > Listers > Some time back in mid 07 I purchased a Crower E4340 Billet Steel Crank for my > TR motor build which I am just now getting around to......had the rear lip > milled to the 63.5mm (2.5") that was the collective thought (manual and > instructions for the improved rear main lip oil seal) and now find that most > think this was in error! Am I right that now the proper size for the seal is > 71.57mm (2.8"), and if so what is one to do if he has the "old" dim.? Can the > journal be built up by hard chroming and them re-milled to size? What other > options can you think of that would permit successful use of the 2.5" scroll > with the lip seal? What have others done to surmount this problem? > Thanks, Dan C. > > Dan, on one of the rare occasions when I actually read instructions, I had my crank cut to 2.500". Before I reassembled the engine I learned about the leaking seal problem, so shortened the spring (per Jack's guidance) to 8.25". I didn't trim the seal split ends, but will this winter when the engine comes out again. Damn damn damn. This time I'll shorten the spring to 8.0 and trim the split per Tony's guidance. hth jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 05:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 13:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris From rfdeanes at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 06:06:25 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:06:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Good show..TRs can still do it ! As one person has said " THE SHAPE OF THINGS STILL HERE"! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 08:22:15 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 07:22:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting Message-ID: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Oct 6 08:28:12 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA Message-ID: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Wed Oct 6 08:55:56 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 14:55:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. jim g ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pendergrass" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM Subject: [Fot] block venting Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B Mark Pendy B TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Oct 6 08:56:08 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:56:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101006145533.4F18F18767D@autox.team.net> You have the big crankcase vent in the left hand side of the block run to your catch tank too? Having that plugged or too small (maybe a small fitting in the fuel pump cover plate) has been a source of pressure build up in my experience. Pulling the plug in the hole for the big vent so it can be re-installed with the engine in the car is a major PITA. - Tony Drews At 09:22 AM 10/6/2010, Mark Pendergrass wrote: >Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of >pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the >rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum >cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on >cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark >Pendy TR4#65 >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:06:23 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:06:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:07 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a connecting ros On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 lines. > > > > jim g > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Pendergrass" > To: "friends of triumph" > Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM > Subject: [Fot] block venting > > Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot > of > pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around > the > rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum > cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on > cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual > venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance B > Mark > Pendy B TR4#65 > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From bownes at seiri.com Wed Oct 6 09:07:36 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 11:07:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: er connecting rod! On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:07 AM, robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting ros > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > >> I vent from the fuel pump blanking plate and the valve cover with -8 >> lines. >> >> >> >> jim g >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Pendergrass" >> To: "friends of triumph" >> Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2010 8:22:15 AM >> Subject: [Fot] block venting >> >> Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot >> of >> pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around >> the >> rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned >> aluminum >> cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung >> on >> cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual >> venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! B B Thanks in advance >> B >> Mark >> Pendy B TR4#65 >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 6 09:17:10 2010 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:17:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3318FA89-F477-4324-A085-60D41ED47F98@earthlink.net> I've been told by Kas that you can't have too much ventilation on the TR3/4 engine. I run a 1" hose from the old sump vent (Modified as in the old black book) and a 1" hose coming off the valve cover into a nice big catch tank next to the battery. Steve B On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:22 AM, Mark Pendergrass wrote: Family, earlier post made mention of venting the block. Seem to have alot of pressure build-up even to the point of haveing to wrap a shop towel around the rocker cover filler cap prior to getting on track. i have a finned aluminum cover with a pretty small vent hose. Would it help to weld a larger bung on cover to accept a bigger vent hose....this is driving me nuts!!! The usual venting stuff we do has been done.........i think! Thanks in advance Mark Pendy TR4#65 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/colordog.1 at earthlink.net From jason at multivintage.com Wed Oct 6 09:19:33 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: Wow, Nice Drive...Colin Chapman must be rolling over in his grave. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx wrote: > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From gt6steve at aol.com Wed Oct 6 10:35:36 2010 From: gt6steve at aol.com (gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:35:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA In-Reply-To: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD3379D73A8417-1DE0-732@webmail-m034.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD338BA3A0AEB6-1990-16DD@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> I still have a nice yellow GT6 racer for sale cheap! Steve in Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: n197tr4 at cs.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 7:28 am Subject: [Fot] EMPTY TRAILER LA TO IOWA I still have empty enclosed trailer from SOCAL to MIDWEST. Likely later in OCTOBER. Or maybe somebody has something very cool for sale. ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com = From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 6 11:33:06 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:33:06 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <000e01cb655a$7bb01370$73103a50$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <000d01cb657c$8abec7e0$a03c57a0$@com> Close to Ramstein airbase. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Alexandre Camoletti [mailto:ac at camoletti.ch] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2010 15:29 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge Well done ! Where are you based? Alex (Geneva) From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:26:48 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (mark eginton) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:26:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <000001cb65b6$54c8cc50$6401a8c0@HP> Well, if you decide to run without it I can tell you; keep a hand on the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake in corners where you get a lot of wheel spin. Back in the late 50s my dad and his friends used the ebrake in gymkanas when the wheel would spin - before he put limited slip in. Works great in a TR3 since you have to push the button to get it the ebrake to stay pulled. I have tried it in an autocross (unfortunately, I threw out the limited slip thinking all rear ends had them in my brainless youth!) but it does work better than nothing. Not nearly as good as limited slip but it does make a difference. Have fun, M From markconsultation at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 6 18:30:03 2010 From: markconsultation at twcny.rr.com (Mark Eginton) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 20:30:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Quaife question Message-ID: <4CAD148B.1040400@twcny.rr.com> If you choose not to install the Quaif, you can always revert to the first generation limited slip - the old ebrake. My dad used it in gymkanas back in the day and I have tried it in autocrosses. Its easier in a TR3 as you have to push the button to keep the brake on so its like driving an old 1900s car with a hand brake. Once you identify the corners with wheel slip, use the ebrake and it does actually help - not a good as limited slip but it does work. Unfortunately, I unknowingly threw out a broken diff with limited slip so I don't have it now... M From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 18:51:15 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 18:51:15 -0600 Subject: [Fot] block venting In-Reply-To: References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> robert bownes wrote: > Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a > connecting rod! > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 6 19:26:42 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:26:42 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 For Sale In-Reply-To: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1592637558.200151.1286204533122.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CAD21D2.1000302@bradakis.com> Sometimes it sucks being poor. Rob Deanes recently sent me a pic of his TR4 at full chat, and I have been wishing I still had the Rust Rocket, or The White Car, or my 250... I'll give you $100 down and $100 a month for the rest of my life. mjb. From mpendy at dishmail.net Wed Oct 6 20:30:18 2010 From: mpendy at dishmail.net (Mark Pendergrass) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 19:30:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] block venting References: <1930735174.1355250.1286376956579.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4CAD1983.4040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <30014A77468C472F828A89737F8621C6@Pendys> No thanks, i'll stick with the rubber hoses....MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: "friends of triumph" Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] block venting > robert bownes wrote: >> Wow. You guys are very scientific. I usually vent my crankcases with a >> connecting rod! >> > > No doubt at high rpm when least expected. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mpendy at dishmail.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 7 04:41:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 12:41:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> Message-ID: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> And race 3 http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out quite successful. 3rd overall in race 1. http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 08:35:56 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 09:35:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dijon race - a real challenge In-Reply-To: <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <005301cb654a$09e5c6f0$1db154d0$@com> <003001cb660c$3f72f410$be58dc30$@com> Message-ID: What Happened? On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 5:41 AM, MadMarx wrote: > And race 3 > > > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5525248728967374418 > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:31 AM, MadMarx < > > tr4racing at googlemail.com> wrote: > > My first appearance at Dijon, a historic F1 track in France, turned out > quite successful. > 3rd overall in race 1. > > http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5524885186093538722 > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason at multivintage.com From riverside at southslope.net Thu Oct 7 10:05:15 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 14:23:53 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 13:23:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] springs for TR4AIrs Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I recently bought a race car project - and I am going through the suspension first. This is a 4A irs car, and I am looking for suggestions on where to buy race springs for a 4a, and what spring rate should I look for? I am not planning on modifying the suspension geometry, so I assume this means that I should get stiffer springs? Thanks in advance, Mark From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:13:52 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: Don't know about the heads, but for the cam, I'd suggest the Kastner A-6. TSI lists it and says it's marginal for the street, but I had a friend that ran one back in the '70's on the street and it worked fine. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of riverside Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:05 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 7 19:44:44 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 20:44:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 Message-ID: Check out the lasted Classic Motorsports Rag. Our very own Scott Barr, my now famous driving instructor, has his car featured in the "only guy crazy enough to drive a GT6 to work" section of the magazine. He even quotes his pride for FOT adding even more mystique and allure to our group. Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From budscars at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:45:01 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 18:45:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CSRG..INFINEON....Next....THUNDERHILL Message-ID: <9767547A0780410F82F994407CD53758@Bud> Hi Gang...It was terrific hooking up with some of you guys at Infineon..Now .I'm entered for Thunderhill...It's a nice..friendly track...lot's of runoff..designed to be like the old days..and ..we help the town of Willows...It's also our annual banquet(at the track)..Free for 2 with entry..and.Free.Friday afternoon testing ...sponsored/paid for by Gordon Walton...Honda Racer... Racer bud From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 8 05:33:37 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:33:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Badge update 10-8-2010 Message-ID: Amici, Nothing new to report as of yet. I am waiting to get the sample and when I do I'll take more pictures and a video of it. Deadline is November 1,2010 58 badges are paid for. Price is only $30. Payment can be PayPay (SeaCubeCo at aol.com). Or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) Thank you From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 06:11:29 2010 From: emanteno at comcast.net (Irv Korey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 07:11:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. Irv Korey From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 07:32:13 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:32:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Oct 8 08:07:40 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 10:07:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 08:46:02 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:46:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Gt6steve at aol.com Fri Oct 8 09:01:25 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:01:25 EDT Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE Message-ID: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! It has rather surprised me how many GT6's have been developed in recent years. There was a time when I was the only TRIUMPH in VARA. Then Paul Smock came along and winning has gotten progressively harder since....;-)) In a message dated 10/8/2010 7:31:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n197tr4 at cs.com writes: Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be gaining in popularity. NFI -----Original Message----- From: Jason Ostrowski To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From list at mackenzie.aero Fri Oct 8 09:01:40 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:01:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb66f9$b707e970$2517bc50$@aero> Art: If I am not mistaken, the dished pistons were used to lower the CR for the US spec cars. The thickness of the head casting remained the same. Flat-top pistons are a must if you want to get anything above 9:1 CR. Here are a couple of good links with useful information: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm#Port_and _Polish_and_Flow_the_Head http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spitheads.htm Use this xl spreadsheet to calculate how much you want/need to take off. (if anybody else need a copy send me an e-mail and I will shoot you a copy) I recently built a 1500 for street/autocross use. It worked out so well I am building it again, but that is another story... On my head I took off .125 to with an early 1500 block using stock flat top pistons for a just under 9:1 CR I also had John at Costa Mesa R&D install modified TR7 valves and beehive springs to the max allowable diameters as per the SCCA Solo GP specs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLlY0sTYYBY (I think John can put these springs on any other TR engine as well - shameless plug for a good friend) As for cams; on my auto-X motor I used Ted S's 275-4 cam and it is great. (Another shameless plug) Let me know if I can help you in any way. Robert MacKenzie President, Hill Country Triumph Club Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) -------------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 11:05:15 -0500 From: "riverside" Subject: [Fot] spit 1500 heads To: Message-ID: <005401cb6639$6ea1d620$0301a8c0 at your55e5f9e3d2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am working on warming up a Spit auto X motor and am trying to get the compression up to about 9:1 from the current 7.5:1 with my TKC3239 head on my '75. I understand the head thickness on the US market 9:1 head (TKC2748) is 3.05" vs. 3.10" on the 7.5:1 head. Was there also a change from dished pistons to flat tops to get the increase? Was the thinner head just that? thinner but otherwise identical? I there a factory prescribed maximum amount that can be milled froom either head. anybody have a favorite cam for a 9:1 autocross spit 1500 they can recommend Thanks! art de armond [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/vnd] From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:29:19 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:29:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: References: <8CD35094DBFABCD-CDC-4935@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s > seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be > a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey > wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. >> He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very >> occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jason at multivintage.com Fri Oct 8 09:39:28 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 10:39:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> References: <16eaa.6cbd1fdd.39e08c45@aol.com> Message-ID: Your Right, I could use two.... but I'm afraid I'd have to take the red one! :) Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > Jason has a GT6 already but it's always good to have two! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 09:48:58 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:48:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Two good projects up for sale in Colorado Message-ID: <1635925597.9466.1286552938142.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Just a couple good project car packages for sale. N.F.I. on my part. This is a pair of TR-3's with many new parts. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1995092432.html Our own Tyler Thompson # 413 TR4 has a Bug Eye for sale to help fund two TR-4's for his sons. http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1972998457.html Jim G From spitlist at cox.net Fri Oct 8 10:43:50 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 09:43:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <74C59E3A-BD50-440A-B457-4ACF943935D7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Fitting into a GT6 is more than just overall height. I am only 5-10 but have a difficult time fitting. It is because I have relatively short legs and a long torso. It's the torso that is the problem. My head hits the roof unless I scrunch down. At the same time, If I ride a horse, I sit high in the saddle (If I can ever reach the stirrup to get up there in the first place). Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Janzen Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 8:29 AM Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 I'm 6-1" (that's 1.83 meters) and race a GT6. I initially walked away from buying the car over the fit, but wanted to buy it enough that I thought about how it could be modified. The side bars in the roll cage had to be relocated to give me enough room move my knee to work the clutch. The seat is a Kirkey aluminum shell, almost no padding, up against the rear bulkhead. I had the floor pan dropped about 1-1/2" under the seat to provide enough headroom. The floor pan in this area is now about 3/4" below the bottom edge of the rocker panel. I'd say anyone bigger than me should rule out a GT6. I suspect as I get older and less nimble, I'll have to get a car that is easier to get in and out of - I jackknife myself in over the door bars, and getting out is a bear. On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. From kaskas at cox.net Fri Oct 8 12:07:20 2010 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 11:07:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: ============= Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the machine or for that matter safety exiting. http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it almost impossible to do cleanly. With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering wheel. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and entering the car. He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in its like a big go cart. A. On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: > Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to be > gaining in popularity. > > NFI > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Ostrowski > To: Irv Korey > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 > > > I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good > Student and give my teacher HELL. > ANY GT6 is a winner to me > Cheers.. > Jason > FGR > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski > wrote: >> >> >>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>> >> >> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >> >> Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Fri Oct 8 12:11:28 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:11:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr now GT6 FOR SALE In-Reply-To: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20101008140720.PSSNN.1214033.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Cough after shedding 40 lbs to go racing I reject that BIG title. hehe Let me know when its out Kas. Would make a nice XMAS stocking stuffer. http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100925__1997.jpg A. On 8 October 2010 14:07, Kas Kastner wrote: > My new book which will be out at the end of the month (probably) has a section on how to fit a tall BIG guy into the GT-6. > ---- Andre Rousseau wrote: > > ============= > Someone get Steve's GT6 racing. > > I so wanted the car, but my tallness excludes me from getting into the > machine or for that matter safety exiting. > > http://www.gt6.ca/09/0418/index.html > > I had a hard look back in 2009 when I visited him in Vegas. > > I tried sitting in my friends GT6 last month at Mont Tremblant and > even without the roll cage (Roll bar only) the race seat makes it > almost impossible to do cleanly. > With the forward seating position my knees where up around the steering > wheel. > > http://andrerousseau.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/20100926__2036.jpg > > So GT6's are good street cars for me.Specially with a tiny steering wheel. > http://temp.justdrive.ca/soloII/event04/slides/GT6_MK1-3.jpg > > BTW I've been asked before by a cop to demonstrate me exiting and > entering the car. > He did not believe I could operate the car safety. I said once I'm in > its like a big go cart. > > A. > > On 8 October 2010 10:07, wrote: >> Steve Smith has a GT6 for sale in Las Vegas.....Spitfires and GT6s seem to > be >> gaining in popularity. >> >> NFI >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jason Ostrowski >> To: Irv Korey >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Fri, Oct 8, 2010 8:32 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 >> >> >> I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good >> Student and give my teacher HELL. >> ANY GT6 is a winner to me >> Cheers.. >> Jason >> FGR >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >>>> >>> >>> Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's >>> got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them >>> effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional >>> these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. >>> >>> Irv Korey >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca >> >> >> > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskas at cox.net > > > > -- > Never be beaten by equipment > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From trmarty at hotmail.com Fri Oct 8 12:18:51 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:18:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias Message-ID: Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of years ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. Sleeve on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of each m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at the top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. Hmmmm, did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and noticed there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back and forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods are fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking there are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop I thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like this. Marty From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 8 13:01:06 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 12:01:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions Message-ID: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> It's been a long time since I've worked on a TR3 bound for the street. I'm building what I'd describe as a hot rod street TR3 for myself, from a failed resto I bought a few years ago. Putting a lot of unused racing parts I've accumulated on the car where appropriate. I have some questions. Front brakes--I've trial-fitted the Wilwood superlight calipers I have laying around (no one will let me get away with them on Peyote) and discovered the outer edge of the pads sit about an inch outside the disk. I thought I might have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? I'm pretty sure I didn't have such a bad fit on the old Cheater. They look like they need to be about 1" further in. The inner edge of the pad is equally miss-fit. There's about an inch of wear pattern on the rotor in from the inner edge of the pad. Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter driveshaft. Yes/No? I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. From tjwakeman at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 13:43:59 2010 From: tjwakeman at gmail.com (TeriAnn J. Wakeman) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 12:43:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Fri Oct 8 13:54:27 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 15:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F64EBB22C444E33B31BD99765A47DD3@INSPIRON> I don't think you need to do that On my tilt on set there is some play back and forth. This system changes the bias to front and rear buy the moving of the cylinder(in the sleeve) closer to or further away from the master rod Go to the Tilton web site and look at there install info There some good pictures and explanation on the theory Use real caution the next time on the track (if you make changes)until you are sure the brakes are balanced. To much rear brake and you will spin before you know it rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net From goodparts at verizon.net Fri Oct 8 14:38:41 2010 From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:38:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9907B482534D48A7B5A72B0E7A72D991@AdminPC> Marty, Brake bias is not changed when the rod and yoke assembly slides side to side in the tube because the ball and socket that is on the threaded rod inside the tube is also sliding. The ball is what transfers the force from the tube to the threaded rod so it is the location of the ball on the threaded rod in relation to the two yokes that determines the bias. Generally, the yokes on each end of the threaded rod should be threaded fairly close to the big tube in the pedal arm leaving just enough clearance so as to not bind when the threaded rod operates at maximum angle. If the yokes want to be further apart so the rods to the MC's are straight you can use washers or spacers between. Richard Good ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake Bias > Dumb brake bias question for you all. On the Spitfire I got a couple of > years > ago there is a dual master cylinder with an adjustable brake bias rod. > Sleeve > on the pedal arm with rod going through the sleeve attached to the rod of > each > m-cylinder. Might be partially home built. I happen to be looking down at > the > top of it yesterday and noticed it was all the way over to one side. > Hmmmm, > did not recall seeing this before. I reached down and grabbed it and > noticed > there is a good inch of travel where you can push the adjustment rod back > and > forth through the sleeve on the end of the brake pedal. The cylinder rods > are > fixed to the cross rod but the whole sub-assembly can be moved cross car > thought the sleeve. Hope this description makes some sense. I'm thinking > there > are some spacers missing. Before I make something up t take out this slop > I > thought I would ask the experts if there is any reason it should be like > this. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ From jibjib at att.net Fri Oct 8 15:41:48 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 14:41:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> <4CAF747F.4050101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <180A535151DF44DB855548EF5D4B94BF@EntCent> TerriAnn nailed it all except the brakes, which seems really weird to me. Do you have a stock caliper to compare the Wilwoods to? I can't think of anything that would put the caliper out an inch from the C/L of the wheel. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of TeriAnn J. Wakeman Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 12:44 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Stocker questions On 10/8/10 12:01 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? > Hi Bill, you didn't mention which bellhousing and which gearbox you have, so I'll go worst case of a TR4 gearbox into a TR3 frame & bellhousing: The TR4 Transmission will bolt up to a TR3 bell housing . You will need the next length longer bolts at the bottom of the bell housing because the lip on the TR4 transmission is wider then on the TR3 transmission. This will also require you to readjust the clutch slave cylinder rod. The transmission mounting holes will be slightly to the rear of the cross member mounting holes. This can be corrected by elongating the mounting holes on the bracket where it mounts to the transmission and where the bracket mounts to the frame. You can use a TR3 drive shaft without modifications. By the way, the transmission goes in easier if the drive shaft is completely removed. Otherwise it gets in the way of lining up the transmission for installation. Since the TR4 shift lever is different, use the TR3 shift lever. It is a direct fit. > I'm using the Moss rack conversion. Seems like the geometry is pretty good. I > decided not to cobble together something (NO, I'm not using a TR3 worm and > pin--yuck). Anyone have any experience with this? So far, so good. > My TR3 got that exact conversion last July. I love it!!!! Steers a lot better with a lot less effort. I would never go back. Teriann _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 8 17:34:39 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:34:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Stocker questions In-Reply-To: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> References: <62D36142-CA81-428B-8D5B-178D3C2248A8@bnj.com> Message-ID: > I thought I might > have small disks, but the slotted disks I have are 10- 3/4". That's the size of the later TR4-TR6 rotors; original TR3 rotors were 11". The TR4-6 mounts also move the caliper closer to the axle, but I'm not sure by how much. The calipers changed at the same time, so may not be strictly comparable. > Are there different caliper mounts for TR3? Not from the factory, although the later mounts will fit on the TR3 vertical links. > Trans mounts--I'm using the OD trans from the Ambro. Looks like the > transmission mount is a little aft of normal, though I haven't stuck a > mount > in there yet to check. Anything special needed? I assume I need a shorter > driveshaft. Yes/No? As TeriAnn said, the 4-synchro box is a bit longer than the original 3-synchro, so slot the mounting holes in the rear crossmember. ISTR I also rolled down the lip on the crossmember a bit, but that may not always be required. Depending on which gearbox, you may also need to fiddle with the clutch linkage. I used a late TR6 box with the thicker flange, which moved the clutch slave back by 1/4" or so. I had to trim the pushrod to match, and make a bracket for the return spring. Also longer studs & bolts for mounting, but that's trivial. Randall From jhassall at blacksburg.net Fri Oct 8 20:16:42 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 22:16:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL In-Reply-To: <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> References: <20101006021630.7CC5F1878AD@autox.team.net> <8CD3317A92009F6-C44-5EE8@webmail-d001.sysops.aol.com> <000301cb651e$17166900$45433b00$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <4CAFD08A.40406@blacksburg.net> On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the > additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? > > They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve > pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. > > See drawing > > Alex > Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 9 02:19:27 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 03:19:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 References: Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C740190A884@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Cripes - a guy goes on vacation and look what happens! Just checked my e-mail for the first time since arriving. It was really cool to see The Colonel featured in my favorite magazine (thanks, Tim!). That car has been a ton of fun, on-track and off (and got close to FTD at VTR in my first autocross attempt :-) Clearly the car and not me). Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net on behalf of Jason Ostrowski Sent: Fri 10/8/2010 8:32 AM To: Irv Korey Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The now Famous Scott Barr and Colonel Mustard Gt6 I Know Irv...you're right. But, Regardless of the facts I try to be a good Student and give my teacher HELL. ANY GT6 is a winner to me Cheers.. Jason FGR On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Irv Korey wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ostrowski wrote: > > >> Way to go Colonel Mustard! Too bad you're a wimpy street car. >> > > Oh Jason, that's where you are wrong. Colonel Mustard is NOT wimpy. He's > got triple Webers on there, and all of the internal bits to make them > effective. Street car yes. Autocross car, yes. Occasional (very occasional > these days) track day car, yes. Wimpy, not hardly. > > Irv Korey _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 9 08:03:53 2010 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 09:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) Message-ID: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg From tlizzard at msn.com Sat Oct 9 08:09:21 2010 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:09:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: So far the only fix is to carry a lot of spares, and hope the new ones are good. I wish someone with the engineering and production know how would come up with some made from modern materials, I.E. a single piece of plastic stuff, whatever it might be. The Chinese have no clue how to make these things. Terry Stetler From list at mackenzie.aero Sat Oct 9 09:40:47 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:40:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Wanted: Spit 1500 Crank Pulley Message-ID: <000b01cb67c8$58260d40$087227c0$@aero> I am in need of a crank pulley for a Spitfire 1500 engine. If anybody has a spare they can part with, please let me know. Robert MacKenzie Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 19:04:17 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:04:17 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 trunnions Message-ID: does anyone know of a vendor with a NOS left lower trunnion?. I've bought 2 reproduction ones so far, and both are sloppier than my 40year old STANPART one. thanks, terry o'beirne From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sat Oct 9 19:16:20 2010 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 20:16:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In-Reply-To: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> References: <000301cb67ba$ce9faca0$6bdf05e0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6818$c073a7e0$415af7a0$@com> There is a solution. A fella by the name of Harold Baker made some floats of the proper dimensions and weight out of aluminum with an o-ring seal at the top for Bill Dentinger and Bob Wismer. They were painstakingly made by Harold. Bill and Bob have graciously lent me some of the prototypes so I can get the dimensions from them. My plan is to talk to a friend of mine who has a machine shop with CNC milling machines and see if I can't make the programs and fixtures to "mass produce" this type of float from aluminum bar stock. You have now given me some motivation to get off of my butt and get going on this "winter" project. I will post occasional updates on my progress, or lack thereof. Tim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 9:04 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] H6 flosts (again) In know there has been a bunch of discussion in the past on this topic (over a thousand hits on a team.net search), but did any one every come up with a solution to the sinking float issue? It seems dad's TR4 is going through a float per race. Thanks in advance, Greg _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/timmurph at fastbytes.com From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 9 23:19:19 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:19:19 +1000 Subject: [Fot] chasing Nardi steering wheel boss Message-ID: would anyone have a Nardi steering wheel boss to suit a TR5/TR6 . dont care if there is no horn button. thanks, terry O'Beirne From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Oct 10 20:12:37 2010 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:12:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. Message-ID: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 From robertten1 at aol.com Sun Oct 10 21:18:19 2010 From: robertten1 at aol.com (robertten1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 23:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. In-Reply-To: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> References: <5e760.46583b27.39e3cc95@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD370A1348215E-1DF0-23204@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com> I guess I should hold onto my sticker and not use it on my car as I got mine back in the early seventies from a BL dealer and the Group 44 were the cars to beat. Cheers, Bob T -----Original Message----- From: GRMTim at aol.com To: igofaster at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Cc: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Sun, Oct 10, 2010 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Group 44 stickers. I don't object, as long as no one uses them to say they have something they do not. That said, most of the Group 44 cars are accounted for. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 239-0523 Fax: (386) 239-0723 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertten1 at aol.com From horizonracing at msn.com Mon Oct 11 07:12:57 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:12:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire Message-ID: List.... I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. Who or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? Thank you Tony From charly at mitchelplumbing.com Mon Oct 11 09:01:50 2010 From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:01:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire References: Message-ID: Tony, have you tried British Parts NW? http://www.bpnorthwest.com/.sc/ms/dd/Spitfire-GT6--Performance%20Parts/7406/A-Arm%20Bushing%20Set%20Poly%20Spitfire-GT6 Charly Mitchel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony and Annie Garmey" To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 6:12 AM Subject: [Fot] susp. bushings/spitfire > List.... > I'm rebuilding another Evla which this one uses spitfire front suspension. > Who > or where could I get poly or delrin (spl?) bushings?? > Thank you > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly at mitchelplumbing.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 11 16:31:34 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Seasons Final at the Nurburgring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501cb6994$10be62e0$323b28a0$@com> Race two from last weekend.... http://picasaweb.google.de/tr4racing/TR4Racing#5526918229788066034 Cheers Chris From whitedog72 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 11 18:28:33 2010 From: whitedog72 at hotmail.com (f s) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:28:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Oct 11 18:34:37 2010 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (jaxonracing at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:34:37 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Message-ID: I wud love a copy of that as well if they are available. Jay creel ------Original Message------ From: f s Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: triumph friends Subject: [Fot] Group 44 Video. The White Wave Sent: Oct 11, 2010 8:28 PM Does anyone have a copy of the Group 44 video Called the White Wave?? I think that was the name. It followed Group 44 through a season. It was sponsored by British Leyland. I have a VHS copy of it but it has crapped out. Wonder if anyone has a copy and if anyone has a copy on DVD? Also, is there any videos of the Kastner Cars? Thanks Andy _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaxonracing at yahoo.com From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Oct 11 22:51:34 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 23:51:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR-3/4/5/6 Aluminum hubs Commercial message Message-ID: <20101012045102.52BB5187658@autox.team.net> uncle jack's racing Aluminum front hubs are going back into production for a limited quantity run. These are a revised design that I've been testing all season. We are using a different set of inner bearings than the prior aluminum hubs used, but they have the same high load rating and are about half of the cost. These hubs eliminate a significant weakness in the stock hubs between the inner and outer flange. They incorporate very high load rating, larger than stock Timken bearings which eliminates the bearing failure issues that are present with stock bearings when using sticky tires. I have been running set with bearings of this load rating from 2003 through 2009 (before running the prototypes this year) and can detect no wear in the bearings. I drive them HARD, and am not afraid to use the curbs. I'm taking pre-orders at this time - no deposits yet. But, please don't pre-order a set if you don't really intend to buy them. This is a very significant investment for me, and I need to gauge the level of interest. Here's how the pricing shakes out (US dollars): A) Bare hubs: $175.00 each / $350.00 per pair B) Hubs with Timken races and ARP studs installed: $280.00 each / $560.00 per pair C) Hubs with all bearings, seals, dust caps and ARP studs installed: $370.00 each / $740.00 per pair For folks who order these hubs, if you already have the heavy duty axle kit, I'll supply a pair of bearing spacers that will work with these hubs for $40 per pair. If you don't already have a set of the Heavy Duty front axles, I'll supply the axle kit along with the hubs for $150 per pair. These are the lowest prices for the axle kits that have been offered. Shipping is a flat $20 in the continental US, $35 to Canada, and other international shipping is probably $50 - at least to Germany or to Australia. The hubs are designed to accept ARP 1/2" x 3" studs, but ARP 7/16" x 3.2" studs can be specified. 7/16" is the stock diameter. If you're interested, please send an e-mail to tony at tonydrews.com with the following info: * Which set you're interested in (A, B or C) * How many hubs are desired (2 would be assumed) * Stud diameter desired * Are spacers needed? Thanks for your interest, Tony Drews tony at tonydrews.com uncle jack's racing From ac at camoletti.ch Tue Oct 12 00:38:01 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 08:38:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll Message-ID: <002e01cb69d8$06328e20$1297aa60$@camoletti.ch> Hi Jim ! Called yesterday this seal specialised company in Geneva, but split lip seals are not used in the industry sot hey could not help. But they provided an interesting info: lip compression on the shaft must be max 10 to 12 10th of mm (1.0 to 1.2 mm). Depending on the manufacturer, but all are within this range the engineer explained. This means that for a shaft at 63.5, seal with the uncompressed lip must be 62.5 max ID (range 62.3-62.5). If with this seal of 62.5 free ID the shaft is bigger than 63.5 or 63.7 OD max, then the lip will not seat on the shaft as designed and the oil film in between will not work and make the seal. Leaks. Yesterday I measured the Moss seal lip when assembled and it measures exactly at 62.5. So this is correct for a 63.5 axle. But we have to be aware that lip seals are designed to withstand a pressure of 0.5 bar usually. Not much. So important to relieve oil pressure on the seal by drilling the recommended holes. Maybe fit an oil splash control washer if possible? So I will go for the 63.6 journal grind (this is the up tolerance leaflet mentions) and drill the two 10mm additional holes. Maybe shorten the spring slightly. Cheers! Alexandre De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : mardi 12 octobre 2010 02:45 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/11/2010 3:26 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Thank you Jim ! Keep us posted ! We have a specialised company here in Geneva for industry lip seals and bearings, interesting to see what they advise. I will certainly replace the seal provided with the kit, as it looks dubious quality (no markings, no brand), with one from a reputable company, possibly made from Viton or some modern material, and with double lip. Will keep the FOT posted on my findings. Cheers! Alex Good luck Alex, and by all means please keep us posted. If there's a better seal out there, your discovery will be welcome by all of us who got burned. thanks, jim De : J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall at blacksburg.net] Envoyi : samedi 9 octobre 2010 04:17 @ : Alexandre Camoletti Cc : fot at autox.team.net Objet : Re: [Fot] Crank--Rear Main / Scroll now MURPHY'S TOOL On 10/6/2010 2:17 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: Question: All of you who got leaks with the 2.5'' grind drilled the additional holes as per Moss'/Bastuck's damn instructions? They propose/suggest to drill 2 additional holes 3/8'' to relieve pressure, each side of the original hole in the main cap. See drawing Alex Yup, I had mine drilled the same way. And I have a reasonably good block vent system, although I may go to an extractor system like Joe A recommends if this go-around with the seal doesn't fix it. If I were smart I'd trash the crank and start over, but.... jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of image001.png] From igofaster at att.net Wed Oct 13 07:56:11 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. Bobby Whitehead CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP Happy Motoring! From andre at gt6.ca Wed Oct 13 09:39:01 2010 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20101008164307.KIBO23088.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8946.37588.qm@web180813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Wed Oct 13 10:39:40 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Message-ID: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com Wed Oct 13 11:00:12 2010 From: Spitfire_Racing at twcny.rr.com (Spitfire Racing) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:00:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 In-Reply-To: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> References: <27.28.23284.AB0E5BC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501cb6af8$19e828f0$4db87ad0$@rr.com> That's called a Spitfire! -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Kramer Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 12:40 PM To: Andre Rousseau; Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Install some 80's vintage Firebird Trans Am T-tops......remove for racing :) -----Original Message----- From: Andre Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 10:39 AM To: Bobby Whitehead Cc: FoT Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Fitting in a GT6 Yeah I did the nascar door bars on my racer too. I can tell you this. There is no way I'd be able to load a GT6 onto my trailer :) With the FIAT I drive up onto the trailer and then jump straight out over top of the roll cage. Just a little too tall to make the dream come true. Drat. Never the less I made the vintage racing dream come true :) One advantage of an open top car. http://www.124racer.com/gallery/10/0214_Tig_Cage/slides/IMG_2418.JPG A. On 13 October 2010 09:56, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > Having owned nearly 20 GT6's and now owning a racer. I too can confirm the small > space to get into the car. This year I added the full roll cage and was > concerned on being able to get into and out of the car. I was lucky enough to > find Jason down in Cresson Texas at the MSR track. I can get his contact if > interested. He built a cage specifically where the side bars (2) are shaped into > the inner space of the doors. We were able modify the inside door skins by > cutting them out to fit. I admit, it's a bear to get into. But, when exiting, > once my butt is on the top bar of the I'm literally out of the car by then. > However, once inside, I'm very cozy at 5'9" and STILL 199 pounds. > > Bobby Whitehead > CVAR GT6+ Group 7 DP > > Happy Motoring! > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/andre at gt6.ca > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca http://twitter.com/andrerousseau - http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/ '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ #515 FIAT 124 Spider - http://www.124racer.com/ Ottawa, ON, Canada _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitfire_racing at twcny.rr.com From SpiwakD at aol.com Wed Oct 13 11:23:19 2010 From: SpiwakD at aol.com (SpiwakD at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:23:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] Copper head gasket source? Message-ID: <247c4.4fef2a2d.39e74507@aol.com> Need source for all-copper head gasket and solid graphite intake/exhaust gaskets Dave Spiwak spiwakd at aol.com From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:49:05 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:49:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= Message-ID: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html From budscars at comcast.net Wed Oct 13 16:51:55 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:51:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Message-ID: Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Oct 13 16:56:24 2010 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:56:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a grand I hope it comes with a loose gold coins in the floorboards. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 Office 512-657-8526 Cell Dream big dreams, but never forget that realistic short-term goals are the keys to your success. ~Mac Anderson -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:52 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 Another amazing find! RB http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer at rdoequipment.com From spitlist at cox.net Wed Oct 13 16:58:42 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 15:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Triumph_GT6_Plus_74=E2=3FT?= In-Reply-To: <3A038E53A882472A875CB880559B0F69@Bud> Message-ID: <20101013225830.XQEK3042.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> It could not be a GT6+ and a 74 model. The GT6+ model was made up until 1970. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of RACER BUD Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 3:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph GT6 Plus 74b?T Hi Gang...I just couldn't resist sending this Craigs list link.. Racer Bud http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003049824.html _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From jhassall at blacksburg.net Wed Oct 13 17:17:58 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:17:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Triumph TR4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CB63E26.5000609@blacksburg.net> On 10/13/2010 6:51 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Another amazing find! > RB > "Recent" frame restoration?? Would that be "recent" in geologic terms? But it does include a Bushing, what a deal! > > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2003045816.html > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From list at mackenzie.aero Thu Oct 14 10:46:24 2010 From: list at mackenzie.aero (Robert MacKenzie) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:46:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 40 DOCE for a 1147 Spit Message-ID: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> I recently was given a weber DOCE 151 carb on a "LYNX SPIT" manifold that I intend to install on the 1147 engine in my '62 Spitfire racecar. The carb is in good condition but is lacking the linkage. My car still has the original bellcrank throttle linkage controlling the SUs Does anybody in FOT world run this carb on an 1147 powered early Spitfire? If so can you please send me some photos of your throttle linkages? Also; any recommendations on jetting would be appreciated as well. Robert MacKenzie NASS # 511 Austin Texas '79 1500 (street) '66 GT6 Mk1 (project) '62 Spitfire 4 (race) From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 13:19:23 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 21:19:23 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> Message-ID: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 14 14:04:37 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 14 14:13:59 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:13:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From tylerpthompson at yahoo.com Thu Oct 14 14:31:24 2010 From: tylerpthompson at yahoo.com (tylerpthompson at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:31:24 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com><1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Count me in for two sets as well. Ty Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 To: MadMarx Cc: Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Count me in for 2 sets Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Hi FOT, after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat resistance. They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against pad pushback. I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a rock brake pedal. As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the manufacturer to get an acceptable price. If there is interest on your side I would like to know. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tylerpthompson at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 14 14:35:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:35:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com>, <1184250628.245969.1287086677671.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <002701cb6bdf$4e300500$ea900f00$@com> Hi Tony, I run EBC yellow brake pads and I use ATE blue racing fluid. I have not measured the brake temps as my gauge ends at 200 degree centigrade. I used the available sealing rings you can buy but I always wondered about that they feel like that a Chinese worker does cut old bicycle tires into sealing rings. The available rings are very soft and look a little sloppy made. The seals I used came from Bastuck, Limora and Moss/Europe. The current ring I use I got as a sample for testing from the manufacturer, custom made for me. If you have them in your hands, you really feel the reliability compared with the Chinese worker made ones. I also think you could reuse them twice or more. The finest rubber for this use they are made from. But expensive..240 is a huge number of rings. Will make a hole in my pocket ;-) Cheers Chris Von: Tony and Annie Garmey [mailto:horizonracing at msn.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Oktober 2010 22:14 An: toodamnfunky at comcast.net; tr4racing at googlemail.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: RE: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Chris, Can you pls give me the Brake temps you are running and fluid brand/type. Who's seals were you using? I have not seen a cailper seal failure in any of my TR's for a long time. BPR seals with AP 551 brake fluid. thx Tony > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 20:04:37 +0000 > From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net > To: tr4racing at googlemail.com > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Count me in for 2 sets > > > > Jim G. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:19:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing at msn.com From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 15 01:49:27 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:49:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Racer in my area (Geneva, Switzerland) Message-ID: <001e01cb6c3d$7f01a450$7d04ecf0$@camoletti.ch> Dear FOT! When you invited my to the group (thank you again!) one of you kindly replied to welcome and indicate there was a Triumph racer in Switzerland or nearby the Geneva area. However I accidentally deleted the email while doing an inbox clean up. I cannot remember the member's name who sent it to me. If you could resend it this will be greatly appreciated! Thank you ! Cheers Alex From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Oct 15 03:16:59 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:16:59 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <4CB7ABEC.9070002@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001101cb6c49$ba171b40$2e4551c0$@com> I would like to add a photo of the outside ring that would replace the dust cover. That ring is just there for closing the gap between caliper and piston. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_T17qmiZWUoA/TLXlpyetmYI/AAAAAAAAAig/1z9BsWlptkI/s800/D SC01167.JPG Cheers Chris From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 15 15:02:31 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:02:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge Update 10-14-2010 Message-ID: Amici, There are 64 badges paid for so far. I am hoping that by the next update there will be an actual sample badge in all its glory in my hand. I will take pictures and video of it when I get it. I might even mount it on a few grills that I have laying around. Cost is still $30 each DEADLINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Payment is either by PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) If you have sent payment and I haven't responded to you then please let me know. I love getting my mail and there is an envelope from someone I have never met sending me money. It is like Christmas all over again. thanks Chris From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au Mon Oct 18 16:53:53 2010 From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:53:53 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 18:18:27 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:18:27 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From budscars at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 18:29:28 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <2734687.1287447507811.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3358DA9D01FB4B2E83221AF53E591F1D@Bud> what's up?...there's no message... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimdonick" To: "friendsoftriumph" Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: [Fot] Help! > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 18:45:38 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero><000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <8CD3D3E15859633-14A4-E6CB@Webmail-d113.sysops.aol.com> Chris, based on our history and the history of others, it seems like there may be a larger market than the racing community. count us in for a set of seals. we HAVE had a few leakers over the years. people are getting very tired of sub standard materials. thanks Chris. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Byrne To: MadMarx ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 5:53 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings Max On my race TR6 I do not run the dust covers as they go to toast first race . never had a problem with leaks but i always clean pistons with brake clean and air before pushing back to insert new pads . i have found varying quality in the seals and am very particular which seals i use. Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Geoff Byrne TR6 Racer Down Under ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings > Hi FOT, > > after I got bothered over years by leaking brake seals I started to > develop > rings out of special DOT 3;4;5.1 resistant rubber with extended heat > resistance. > > They are made for racing purpose and surprisingly they also do help > against > pad pushback. > I have run the sealing rings the whole season and had no leaks and hard as > a > rock brake pedal. > As the dust cover do get toasted during racing I replaced the dust cover > by > a slotted ring to prevent the enter of dirt into the caliper. > > These rings are expensive because of the material they are made from. > > I didn't order a run of rings as I have to take the minimum of 240 from > the > manufacturer to get an acceptable price. > > If there is interest on your side I would like to know. > > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne at optushome.com.au _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Oct 18 19:05:12 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <9C733059D506495BBD6A9E6F1867FA45@INSPIRON> for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Oct 18 19:42:51 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:42:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Message-ID: <20101018.214251.25227.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Rob, after washing them and letting them thoroughly dry, let the air out, seal them up in a black plastic bag and store them in a cool place in the basement. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Rob" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] OK its Winter Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:05:12 -0400 for me anyway cant complain didn't crash and got a little faster (mostly)How should i store my tires. thanks rob _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbcf7d547f1335e7f2st01duc From whimsey1 at earthlink.net Mon Oct 18 19:48:21 2010 From: whimsey1 at earthlink.net (jimdonick) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:48:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From n197tr4 at cs.com Mon Oct 18 20:04:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:04:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Help! In-Reply-To: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time -----Original Message----- From: jimdonick To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! not sure what happened. Here's the original message jimdonick Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its annual Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) Anyway. I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an original hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever the heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such items might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre hardtop that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in highschool my only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of Northwestern Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the SALT but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a motor in for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete top would be greatly appreciated. kind regards to all, jimdonick -----Original Message----- >From: RACER BUD >Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph >Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > >what's up?...there's no message... >Racer Bud >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jimdonick" >To: "friendsoftriumph" >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >Subject: [Fot] Help! > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From triumphs at consolidated.net Mon Oct 18 22:44:32 2010 From: triumphs at consolidated.net (Ken Gano, home PC) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:44:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Help! References: <11293360.1287452901626.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8CD3D4924441330-1550-3800D@Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Madisonville, Kentucky. (on US 41, just south of town) Sorry I do not seem to have his exact address or number handy. kg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > paul oglesby had plexiglass the time i was there.....kentucky/tennessee? > > TRF had mounting hardware listed at one time > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jimdonick > To: RACER BUD ; friendsoftriumph > > Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! > > > not sure what happened. > Here's the original message > jimdonick > Amici: It's not exactly a race but . . . the VSCCA will be holding its > annual > Autumn Rally this year as a WINTER Rally. (I'm rally master as well) > Anyway. > I'll be driving the TR-3 and may have an offer of the remains of an > original > hardtop. It will need everything, including rear plex or glass or whatever > the > heck they had and mounting hardware. Does anybody know: A) Where such > items > might be sourced or B.) Where I might find an original or a glassfibre > hardtop > that would be usable or made usable by early January? As a kid in > highschool > my > only car was a TR-3 and that was in the wilds (and winters) of > Northwestern > Pennsylvania so I think taking the old girl out in the snow (and YES, the > SALT > but she's a car for goodness' sake and God and the Chief Engineer put a > motor > in > for a reason) is appropriate. Anyway, any leads on parts or on a complete > top > would be greatly appreciated. > kind regards to all, > jimdonick > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: RACER BUD >>Sent: Oct 18, 2010 8:29 PM >>To: jimdonick , friendsoftriumph > >>Subject: Re: [Fot] Help! >> >>what's up?...there's no message... >>Racer Bud >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "jimdonick" >>To: "friendsoftriumph" >>Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:18 PM >>Subject: [Fot] Help! >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> fot at autox.team.net >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphs at consolidated.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3205 - Release Date: 10/18/10 13:34:00 From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 19 06:31:48 2010 From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4A IRS Frame Message-ID: <679419.54322.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AMICI - Anyone going near Arlington Texas? I need a frame moved anywhere closer to the Midwest. Joe Alexander says that he might be able to pick it up in Oklahoma City. Thanks Dennis From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 19 07:24:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:24:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Help! Message-ID: It's an old record, but I show: Paul Oglesby 270/821-6351 Fax 825-8305 Bill Dentinger From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 07:29:59 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jsnook at wcnet.org Tue Oct 19 08:50:04 2010 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] John Wiley Message-ID: <005c01cb6f9c$eac87c60$c0597520$@org> Trying to get hold of John Wiley, last known in Toledo, Ohio. Races a TR4 on occasion. John, you out there? Anyone else have contact into. Thanks, Jeff Snook http://www.snooksdreamcars.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 09:34:43 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:34:43 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> Message-ID: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Hi at all the rings material is EPDM 85. A set of 4 rings for one caliper will cost about 65-75$. If only the inner rings are needed then half the price, as then there are only two rings. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert M. Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 15:30 An: Geoff Byrne Cc: MadMarx; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, Geoff Byrne wrote: > Max [stuff deleted] > Can you give more details of the rings eg material and likely cost Do tell... this is def. of general interest to the list. > Geoff Byrne > TR6 Racer Down Under regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From riverside at southslope.net Tue Oct 19 09:39:17 2010 From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:39:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] 1500 heads Message-ID: <000b01cb6fa3$d3d587d0$0301a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Thanks so much to all of you who responded. I have a plateful of food for thought! art de arnond From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 09:41:25 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Brake caliper sealing rings In-Reply-To: <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> References: <001b01cb6bbf$5759f570$060de050$@aero> <000301cb6bd4$b6dd5b30$24981190$@com> <000c01cb6fa3$28487260$78d95720$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010, MadMarx wrote: > Hi at all > > the rings material is EPDM 85. Ah - I see specs for the temp range of -70 to +275F You source these from any o-ring supplier? Sorry, just being a nitwit today. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Oct 19 10:24:34 2010 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert M. Lang) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 10:30:10 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:30:10 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01cb6faa$e73429b0$b59c7d10$@com> The Bastuck company supply 4.1; 4.3; 4.55. I run a 4.1 for about 6 years now and I have a 4.3 on the shelf for tight tracks. Bastuck is about 30 km way from me. If I can be of any help. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Robert M. Lang Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 18:25 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 19 10:43:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Message-ID: <4F.A9.12606.C8ACDBC4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com> I have a 4.875 set I don't need if anyone is interested. I'd like to get FMV -----Original Message----- From: Robert M. Lang Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:24 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets Hi, This topic has come up a few times in the last 6 months or so... About 10 years ago, there was an FOT lister in Germany named Carsten Conrads, I think that had commissioned sets of alternate gears. I know this because I bought two brand-new 4.33 gearsets from him. I've seen a couple of folks posting for sets other than the normal 3.70 and 4.10 sets that are available new, but wonder if there's any demand for sets like 3.45 and the hillclimber-special 4.33, 4.55 and 4.875 that used to be available. At any rate, is Carsten still on this list. If not, has anyone looked into these alternate sets lately? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent 2010 NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rkramer3 at austin.rr.com From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 11:34:18 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 12:13:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Big Tr Alternate Gear Sets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDDFCE.9030803@pobox.com> I purchased a 4.55 gearset from Revington TR. They currently list 3.45, 4.1, 4.3, 4.55, 5.25, 6.67. I'm not sure what you would want some of these for. I tried almost every combination in my TR3 and consider a 4.55 to be the ideal gearset with an OD, giving 3.73 in 4th OD. Isn't this what Kas used in the Sebring cars? On that note, I have the following for sale: TR3 rear axle, 4.55 ratio, Southwick axles, Salisbury LSD Overdrive transmission coupled to close ratio gearbox If interested, contact me off list. -Larry From harmug at us.ibm.com Tue Oct 19 12:40:34 2010 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:40:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire From spitlist at cox.net Tue Oct 19 12:57:23 2010 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 11:57:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101019185716.KBQ3990.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I run dual Isky valve springs on my modified 1296 engine. My rationale has always been that dual springs offer much greater spring tension to prevent valve float in the higher RPM range. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Harmuth Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I use single springs and if so any suggestions? thanks mike 63 Spitfire _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitlist at cox.net From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Oct 19 13:54:25 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBDF771.6020204@pobox.com> This is a bit technical, but I will try to explain. The tension of a valve spring fluctuates at its natural frequency. This often called "Spring Surge". Generally the two springs will have different natural frequencies, which helps to smooth out the magnitude of these fluctuations. If you use a single spring with the same overall tension as the two springs there is probably not much of a weight difference. The other advantage of two springs is that you can get a stronger spring force in a smaller space. On 10/19/2010 1:40 PM, George Harmuth wrote: > I've been wondering what's the best approach. I've always run double > springs as an insurance policy against a broken spring dropping a valve but > I have to say I've never broken a spring. Are there any other advantages to > doubles, enough to offset the mass penalty? Neither engine has a > particularly radical cam, .450 and .470, zero lash, and I don't like to rev > over 7200. I know springs are made of sterner stuff these days, should I > use single springs and if so any suggestions? > > thanks > mike > > 63 Spitfire From EDENMA at aol.com Tue Oct 19 14:06:04 2010 From: EDENMA at aol.com (EDENMA at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:06:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again Message-ID: <1a69ff.3b98ede1.39ef542c@aol.com> Mike: We (my son was driving the car at drivers school) spun my #2 rod bearing exactly the same way in our first outing this year. Car was running well Friday and Saturday, Sunday morning as I was preparing the car for the first session I noticed a very slight oil sheen in the top of the radiator while checking fluid levels. Checked the dipstick, capture tank, and popped the valve cover off to check for any evidence of water. Finding none, I sent him out with the idea I would re-torque the head as a precaution when he returned. Needless to say the car didn't finish the session. It appears, in our case, that the #2 bearing spun, allowing the piston to slightly tap the head causing it to break the seal on the steel shim head gasket. On the next down stroke it sucked a slug of water and on the upstroke compressed the water and blew out the side of the liner What I don't know is whether the bearing spun (1) due water contamination in the oil, (2) lack of lubrication to the # 2 rod bearing for some reason, or (3) faulty bearing(s). I too, was running a non-hardened stock crank, Carrillo rods, and Tri-metal bearings which I had purchased from BPNW. Same engine block with different crank suffered the same #2 rod bearing failure by previous owner. Same rod from previous failure had been reconditioned by Carrillo, pronounced good and reused. Block had been line bored and cleaned prior to reassembly. On tear down remaining bearings (Main and rod) showed either no damage or slight evidence on galling (probably due to water contamination of oil after the failure). #2 rod bearing was completely wiped out. Surprisingly little (but enough) damage was done to the crank journal. Cam bearings looked perfect. No other damage was noted. There was no blueing of the crank or any other indication that the bearing/journal was running hot. I am about to begin building two new engines this winter. I'm curious to know what bearings you used in your engine, and more importantly, anything else you may have noticed during both teardowns regardless of whether you think it was a factor in the failure or not. Cheers! Mark A. Eden 62 DP TR4 #357 64 HP Spitfire #42 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Oct 19 14:59:49 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:59:49 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <200635.36227.qm@web46114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Oct 19 19:14:45 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:14:45 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Message-ID: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ $13/Month Car Insurance? Insurance deal just passed now allows you to get car insurance for $13 http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cbe42c6bf61d37d0edst02duc From mike.mehl at yahoo.com Tue Oct 19 19:27:51 2010 From: mike.mehl at yahoo.com (Mike Mehl) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20101019.211445.27676.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <803584.40062.qm@web46116.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Joe; thanks for the note. I should have clarified Oil temp was 210 water never went above 180. No oil in the water (that happened with the first motor). I am running around 10.5 to 1 compression so clearance is not really a problem. The engine looks really good except for the #2 connecting rod bearing. Weird Thanks!!! Mike ________________________________ From: Joe Boruch To: mike.mehl at yahoo.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:14:45 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Mike, I would suspect that your head gasket is leaking at the #2, causing high combustion pressures, which are beating up the bearings, leading to the failures. The steel shim head gasket is difficult to get to seal. What are you doing to seal it? Copper coat or aluminum paint are not enough. I put copper wire o-rings in the fire rings and thinner copper wire around the lifter valleys. Before I started doing that I was often having head gasket problems and once bent the # 2 rod. 210 deg water temp seems very high to me. My TR3 runs 195 deg even on hot (northeast summer) days (with 13.5 compression and a 7300 rpm rev limiter). Perhaps the spike was the gasket letting go before all hell broke loose? Was there much water in the oil? How much clearance do you run between the pistons and the head? With a stock crank you need at least 0.030 inch. The crank does lots of flexing. Any cylinder wall scoring? What pistons and clearances are you running? That's my 2 cents. Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Mehl To: Triumph Friends of Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. SeeCollegeDegrees.com From mark at bradakis.com Tue Oct 19 22:10:34 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:10:34 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire race motor 1296, Dual or single valve springs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CBE6BBA.3@bradakis.com> One slight advantage of double springs is that one can be wound left-handed, the other right. A minor detail, but it can help moderate the resonate frequencies and spring surge Larry mentioned. mjb. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:27:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:27:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine failure part 2 Message-ID: We install a bright red light high up on the dash in the driver's line >> of sight that turns on anytime the oil pressure in the main oil galley >> drops below 25 or 30 psi. The pressure switch should not be mounted >> directly on the engine where heat and vibration can cause them to fail, >> but should be on the firewall bulkhead where the flex hose joins the >> solid metal pipe that goes to the oil pressure gauge. >> We set the oil pressure as per the factory manual to 70 psi at 2000 >> rpm with the engine oil at least 160 degree F. With a good oil pump and >> the clearances mentioned above, you should see 90 psi at 6,000 rpm with >> oil up to 200 - 210 degrees with 20w/50 oil. If the oil temp gets to 230 >> it might drop to 80 psi but should never be any less it over 4,000 rpm. >> With all of these mods, there are some corners on some tracks where we >> have seen the low oil pressure light come on for a second or so. These >> have always been high "g" left hand corners that come after hard braking >> zones, ie turn 5 at Laguna Seca, turn 5 at Thunderhill Raceway where you >> brake very hard from about 70 mph while going up a steep hill ,down to >> about 25 mph, then turn left over a severe crest &then go steeply >> downhill while accelerating and turning to the right. The light comes on >> just at the as the car crests the hill. So there is something going on >> in the pan when performing this maneuver with a left turn that does not >> happen then you brake and then turn right! I have yet to understand >> exactly what is going on but the condition certainly exists. With good >> Penn Grade 1 race oil, I have left my foot in it while the red light has >> been on for the second or so and no seen any signs of failure on the >> bearings afterwards. There is still probably 20 psi of oil pressure in >> the main galley and the high quality oil is still able to maintain film >> strength. I have not used an acusump or any other form of supplemental >> oil supply. >> In four or five race weekends with lots of track time and engine RPM >> from ,4,000 to 7,000 , the bearings should NO WEAR that you can measure. >> The surface of the bearing turns darker in color than they were when new, >> but we generally see NO surface "pulling" or damage to the bearing >> surface. >> >> Greg Solow > The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Wed Oct 20 02:25:33 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 01:25:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Engine failure agian part 1 Message-ID: Over the years, it has been our experience that if a TR-4 type engine >>> experiences oil starvation for any reason, number 2 rod bearing will be >>> the first to fail. Exactly why number 2 should fail and not number 3 rod >>> bearing, I cannot say, but none the less that is what happens. >>> To help prevent this what we do is use great oil. We like PennGrade 1 >>> racing 20/50 best. We have also successfully used Torco and Chevron Delo >>> oils. >>> We set the main bearing clearance at .0025 to .00275". The crank will >>> flex at high RPM and high power outputs. By giving it more clearance, it >>> can flex without rubbing on the bearing surfaces. On one high output >>> engine, increasing the main bearing clearance from .00175 to .0025 >>> lowered the engine oil temperature when running on an engine dyno over 50 >>> degrees F. In fact, we had to shut off the oil cooler blowers and put and >>> insulating shroud around the allow oil pan to get the engine oil >>> temperature up over 180 degrees F while running on the dyno! >>> We set the rod bearing clearances at .003" when using "carrillo" style >>> machined steel rods. We have used more with race prepared stock rods >>> which do not stay as round as the aftermarket rods do. We prefer to use >>> Vandervell VP-2 rod bearings for racing. They are the best. >>> Unfortunately, for the most part there are not many left around and they >>> have been out of production for many years. We did have ACL make up 100 >>> sets of trimetal .010" undersize rod bearing a number of years ago. We >>> still have some left. They do not have the load carrying capacity of the >>> Vandervells, but they are the next best thing, and they are available. >>> We drill out the oil holes in the two center main bearing shells so >>> that they are the same size as the holes in the block that feed them. >>> We modify the oil intake hole in the main bearing journal by grinding >>> a "leading" scoop the same width as the oil groove in the main bearing. >>> When looking at the crank from the front, with the oil hole in the main >>> bearing journal facing up, all of the grinding should be to the right >>> side of the oil hole. As the crank rotates, you want it to scoop oil out >>> of the reservoir of oil that is in the groove in the bearing and force it >>> down the drillings toward the rod bearings. ( Volkswagen 1600 air cooled >>> engine cranks were manufactured this way, it wasn't my idea!) >>> We modify the oil pickup so that it's opening faces down against the >>> bottom of the oil pan, with about 3/16" clearance between the bottom of >>> the pan and the screen on the bottom of the pickup. >>> We measure the oil pressure in the main oil galley running down the >>> side of the block, not at the original location at the oil filter head. >>> This is very important. The original measuring point is right at the >>> output from the oil pump. You want to measure the pressure just before >>> the feed to the bearings so if there were a blockage anywhere in the >>> system before the bearings, you would see it. The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From tr4racing at googlemail.com Wed Oct 20 02:41:33 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:41:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed In-Reply-To: <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <000301cb6fd0$958fa190$c0aee4b0$@com> <4cbe3d63.8712ec0a.2754.093aSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01cb7032$9aa01810$cfe04830$@com> I run 0.0027 for the mains because of crank flexing. The good thing with the smaller rod bearing clearance is that you don't need much oil to lube them. I found that with the stock suggested clearance the rod bearings started to get thirsty at revs beyond 4000. I found the oil pressure dropped from 90 to 70 PSI at 6000 rpm. With that small clearance the pressure remained at 90-95 even at hot days. And after a race I have 50-60 PSI at idle speed (1300 rpm). Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jim Gray [mailto:toodamnfunky at comcast.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Oktober 2010 02:52 An: 'MadMarx' Betreff: RE: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Chris, What kind of clearance do you use at the main bearings ? Thanks, Jim Gray # 102 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:00 PM To: 'Triumph Friends of' Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed What bearing clearance do you run? I went down with the clearance a lot and found the rod bearings much more happy with it. Over the year I ran 0.00275 as clearance but found wear on the bearings. This year I ran 0.00118 and I had a huge oil pressure and almost no bearing wear. I kept the old bearings for good as they are looking as new. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mike Mehl Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 2010 19:34 An: Triumph Friends of Betreff: [Fot] TR4 continued race motor problems spun # 2 rod bearing again - input thoughts needed Well -several of you are up to speed on my engine saga. First it was the head (May), then the # 2 rod bearing (July 4th Pacific Northwest Historic's) and then new engine #2 and then # 2 rod bearing again (Columbia Classic in Portland). My understanding that bottom end problems are not normally this bad. So what changed. - #2 engine had a different engine builder do the engine. He is very experienced and does at least one other FOT member engine. He had 15 engines in the SCCA runoffs. They know what they are doing. - The #2 engine had a new crank and all new forged rods. The engine was running warm around 210F pretty consistently through all 4 sessions the engine ran an spiked up to 270 in a big hurry and that was it. - The engine is equipped with an Accusump. - The engine is apart and there is nothing obvious that is wrong with the block. Is there something weird they need to look for? - The crank was not Nitrited (would that have made a difference this quickly) Is there something we are missing? I ran the engine between 5000 and 6000 RPM. It had a 455 rear end gear so I was painfully slow down the straights at PIR. Could stroking the engine at those RPMs have hammered the bearings? Would it happen after a total of 90 minutes of run time? In the mean time I have crank #3 on the way. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Mike Mehl 62 Triumph TR4 - Vancouver Washington _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/toodamnfunky at comcast.net From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 08:42:24 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:42:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. Thanks, Jim G From horizonracing at msn.com Thu Oct 21 08:55:36 2010 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:55:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Greg Solow Message-ID: THank you Greg for your input on # 2 rod bearing failures......That is what the FOT is about !! From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Oct 21 08:57:56 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:57:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Data logging Message-ID: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:07 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F7A16156-760-15CB@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From jhouathome at aol.com Thu Oct 21 11:03:11 2010 From: jhouathome at aol.com (jhouathome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up. TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, oodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: FoT <<>> o! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas auge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running t Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) ______________________________________________ ot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html rchive: http://www.team.net/archive orums: http://www.team.net/forums nsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 11:08:49 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:08:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com From markvaden at gmail.com Thu Oct 21 11:16:59 2010 From: markvaden at gmail.com (Mark Vaden) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1307039992.102367.1287672144560.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: In an admittedly shameless self plug - DashWare which can be downloaded at www.chasecam.com allows comparing data from any logger. So you can compare your traqmate data to AiM etc. -Mark On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, wrote: > FoT > > Are there any TR4 drivers using the Taqmate data logger? I just want to > compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > > Thanks, > > > > Jim G > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/markvaden at gmail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Oct 21 11:17:58 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:17:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR3 race car and parts for sale Message-ID: <4CC075C6.1070503@pobox.com> I have the following for sale: - TR3 vintage race car - close ratio gearbox mated to A type overdrive set up for racing - complete rearend, 4.55 ratio, Salisbury LSD, Southwick axles For more information see www.tildentechnologies.com/TR3 or contact me off list. I have had this car for sale for a while, but until now I haven't made much effort to sell it. If the rearend and overdrive/transmission don't sell as is, I will be parting them out. -Larry From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 15:35:31 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:35:31 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <8CD3F58F9E633B2-760-15CF@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> <268826931.109823.1287680929367.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <001001cb7167$e4309370$ac91ba50$@com> Hmmm....looks like stoneage equipment to me. I use a stock fuel gauge for measuring. I don't even have to move out of the car to know how many (or much) fuel I have. Chris :-) -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von toodamnfunky at comcast.net Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. Oktober 2010 19:09 An: jhouathome at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] Data logging OK, If your gonna make fun of me I'm going to upgrade my pine wood paint-stir stick gas gauge to Teak and then I'm going to drill it to reduce the weight. I'll show ya how complicated I can make things, I'm just getting started. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: jhouathome at aol.com To: BillDentin at aol.com, toodamnfunky at comcast.net, fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:03:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging Hi Bill, Hey, I've seen your gas gauge stick for the TR3, and it is far less sophisticated than my TR4 stick which has a leather loop on the end to hang it up.B TR4's really do require far more complex support equipment. John -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin To: toodamnfunky ; fot Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 10:33 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > FoT > > << compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >>> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be running at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. Bill (Damdinger) _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhouathome at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 17:26:50 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:26:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Message-ID: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:31:44 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:31:44 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Here it is !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20101021233147.A393B187647@autox.team.net> Now that's funny, thanks for the laugh bill. That reminds me, I need to pull my turbo encapulator this winter. I noticed a little immodial interaction with the panacoptic marzel vanes in Topeka. Hopefully it's just the reciprocating dingle arm rubbing on the phase detractor. Jim G _____ From: BillDentin at aol.com [mailto:BillDentin at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:01 PM To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: JHOUATHOME at aol.com; colordog.1 at earthlink.net Subject: Fwd: Fw: Here it is !!! Of course, I'm just pullin your chain, but if you like things technical, take a gander at this video the rabid dentist sent me. Bill or is it, rapid dentist. It's one of the two. From stutzmans at comcast.net Thu Oct 21 17:57:42 2010 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > >> FoT >> >> <<> to >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. >> >>> >> >> > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > running > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > Bill (Damdinger) > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Oct 21 20:53:14 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Lee Gaskin Morgan Plus 4 Message-ID: A club member is considering pruchasing a TR4 engined Morgan owned and raced by a Lee Gaskins out of SC. He asked if I have heard of him and I have not. Does anyone from the southest know of him and /or the car. The buyer is curious, and tempted but needs a litttle push before he jumps into vintage racing. If he hears good things about the car I think he'll bite. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 21:17:40 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:17:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net From tr4racing at googlemail.com Thu Oct 21 22:22:01 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:22:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <830837.63592.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jibjib at att.net Thu Oct 21 22:45:34 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:45:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <000b01cb71a0$ad7122d0$08536870$@com> Message-ID: <285161.82438.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Chris, Thanks for sharing your experience. Your steel work reminds me of the angle iron holding my tranny lip, where the clutch solenoid attaches. Whoever had this tranny before me did something wrong and broke that section of lip off, the part where the solenoid attaches. A bit of small angle resolved the issue for the past 10+ years. Jack -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx [mailto:tr4racing at googlemail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:22 PM To: fot at autox.team.net; 'Jack Brooks' Subject: AW: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Hi, I swapped OD from A to J during the season. It was really not much trouble. I made a little frame for the J-OD. The mainshaft was no problem either. http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10237.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10240.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10246.jpg http://www.tr-freun.de/images/tr-galerie_loaded/128-10247.jpg But, the A OD seems to be the more quick shifting one. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jack Brooks Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Oktober 2010 05:18 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Thanks for the great responses guys. I have an OD in my street/AutoX TR3 and I have several TR4 non-OD trannies. I'd really like a fully syncro OD in my TR3, but it seems like the J-type is not the (easy) way to go. For some reason, I thought it was a near bolt-on and that I would be swapping out a mainshaft. So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? I've committed to buying an inexpensive J-type that was ordered from Rimmers about 10 years ago and is still wrapped in plastic in the crate. Jack -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:27 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's Gents, I believe a J-type OD be swapped onto a TR3 or TR4 in place of an A-type. If I am correct, is it simple or a lot of work? Thanks in advance, Jack _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From jason at multivintage.com Thu Oct 21 23:46:45 2010 From: jason at multivintage.com (Jason Ostrowski) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 00:46:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 From ac at camoletti.ch Fri Oct 22 03:49:16 2010 From: ac at camoletti.ch (Alexandre Camoletti) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:49:16 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Gentlemen, Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly drew up on my request. Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as it is 1.7 meg. If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the members of the FOT? I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. Cheers! Alex [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Oct 22 06:14:20 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 07:14:20 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401A80646@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> We're looking forward to it. Fingers crossed - brand new motor. We're hoping it all works as planned! Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri Oct 22 00:46:45 2010 Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" for Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars entered in the race. This will be a good one to watch. Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing me (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in a sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to any FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! Jason Ostrowski Friendly Ghost Racing GT6 _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From BillDentin at aol.com Fri Oct 22 08:55:08 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 10:55:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Craziness at blackhawk farms Message-ID: <1ef17.567768d5.39f2ffcc@aol.com> In a message dated 10/22/2010 12:47:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jason at multivintage.com writes: > This Saturday marks the end of the racing season with "The Looong Race" > for > Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms. The vintage event has 45 cars > entered > in the race. This will be a good one to watch. > Spectating and Crew are FREE for this event. Anyone interested in seeing > me > (in my GT6), Bill D. (in his TR3) and the Barr family Spitfire drowning in > a > sea of Datsuns and Porches... Please come out. My cooler will be open to > any > FOT'ers wanting to witness Triumph history as Scott Barr and Jerry Barr > attempt to run their car in two groups in one day. That's 160 minutes of > racing plus practice and qualifying. This will be a good FREE show! > Amici... Jason's choice of the word 'craziness' is almost less than descriptive. Horsepower, Performance, and Talent disparity in vintage race groups is not uncommon, but forty-five particularly eclectic cars in the Vintage/Historic race group on Blackhawk Farms' two mile circuit tomorrow strikes me as a potential CLUSTER F*CK, and caused me to pull my originally entered Tornado Talisman in favor of my trusty old TR3. The Talisman is enclosed, slow, and lacks necessary rear view options. At least in my TR3 I'll be able to see who hits me. The V/H group is full of 911s and far more modern iron than I am used to. Scott Barr's 'real race' group is full of Miatas (we all know how nice they play). His race will clock 100 miles. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, is racing his Lola T-598 S2 in another 100 miler. The weather report adds another degree of difficulty to the mix: Saturday Cool and Rain; Sunday Cool and Showers. But let's face it, it could be worse. This track lies on the boarder between Illinois and Wisconsin. I remember LOOOONG RACE events were we had SNOW. This is the 40th LOOOONG RACE event, and I have probably run 75% of them (since they started adding 'vintage' sessions. This is a GREAT family event, with Trick or Treating for the kids (around the track to the corners) on Saturday, and the infamous Big Wheel races out on the front straight on Sunday. After watching the adults race all week end, it is a joy to behold the kids race their bikes, trikes, and big wheels out on the track on Sunday. This event is a great way to end the season here in the Midwest. And, of course, Wine and Cheese Lite in the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team garages on Saturday night. Bill Dentinger From cofrog at q.com Fri Oct 22 10:29:02 2010 From: cofrog at q.com (Dan Forgey) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:29:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: All of you guys put your sticks away and behave...... > From: stutzmans at comcast.net > To: BillDentin at aol.com; toodamnfunky at comcast.net; fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:57:42 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > I've seen your stick guage; it's very sophiscated. > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Data logging > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2010 9:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > > toodamnfunky at comcast.net writes: > > > > > >> FoT > >> > >> << >> to > >> compare some turning and braking G force measurements with other cars. > >> >>> > >> > >> > > No! It's not really a log or logger, but I have a stick I use as a gas > > gauge for my TR3. The TR3 is not as sophisticated as the TR4. I'll be > > running > > at Blackhawk Farms this week end if you want to see it. > > > > Bill (Damdinger) > > _______________________________________________ > > fot at autox.team.net > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cofrog at q.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:40:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Data logging In-Reply-To: References: <6206b.7d5ac304.39f1aef4@aol.com>, <086293F3524B47CA877C377E270DD6C6@ComputerPC> Message-ID: <1165269D-B86E-4B55-A8B4-F46661AA3FF2@bnj.com> I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Oct 22 10:41:34 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:41:34 -0500 Subject: [Fot] J-type vs. A-type OD's In-Reply-To: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <141605.26749.qm@smtp104.sbc.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC1BEBE.2050605@pobox.com> The J type overdrive alone is not expensive, because they were used in Volvo's up into the 90's. I see them on ebay for as little as $100. However, in order to mate it to a TR transmission, you need the output shaft, adapter and a few other parts. I believe someone is casting the adapter, check Quantum Mechanics. On 10/21/2010 10:17 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > So, just for grins, what is the ball park street value for a J-type OD? From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:43:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:43:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! Message-ID: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? I just sent this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. My driving seems to have deteriorated a bit this year. I think I'm not getting enough track time. I might look for an SCCA ride. Maybe pick up an old Radical and beat the crap out of myself. I tried a Miata two years ago and enjoyed the group--what a bunch of bastards. Right up my alley. and the end result was this: I have a traqmate, but it's sitting in the box. Used it on the long trip (www.allaluminumtour.com) to help learn new tracks. If I was doing serious development on my driving I'd be using it still, but I'm not. I found it was best for analyzing corners and trying new approaches to them. I could try five or six braking points on three or four corners in a single practice lap and see which one was working best. _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:44:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:44:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark part deux Message-ID: Obviously doesn't happen all the time, but the reformatting is funky too. From billb at bnj.com Fri Oct 22 10:47:40 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:47:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Hi Alexandre, I'd like a copy of the .pdf -- and yes, the list server will zap the attachment. You can embed a link to it instead, if you send me a copy I'll set that up for you. Bill On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > Gentlemen, > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful tutorial on how to > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block which Kevin very kindly > drew up on my request. > Idea is to take the head of the Chevy stock item and solder it on our > standard oil pick up in order to get a vertical pick up and no longer > horizontal, and therefore improving notably the G rating of the sump, while > having a reliable mesh (the standard one gets holed very often) > Here it is in pdf. I do not know if the pdf file will go through though, as > it is 1.7 meg. > If not, can someone tell me how to proceed to make the file viewable to the > members of the FOT? > I will do the mod on the engine I am currently building. > Cheers! > Alex > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of OilPickUpImprovementColor.pdf] > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 22 17:54:39 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 19:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Badge update 10-22-2010 Message-ID: <7928218F-1826-4FEC-9840-DA9D54EAEB7C@aol.com> Amici, Nothing new. Just a few more badges sold. Total is now 65. Price is still $30 Payment is either PayPal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia Ave, Vineland, NJ 08361) DEAD LINE IS NOVEMBER 1st. Thats only 10 days away. thanks 'Chris From jerrybarr at charter.net Sat Oct 23 19:33:51 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Short race Message-ID: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sat Oct 23 19:34:16 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 11:34:16 +1000 Subject: [Fot] TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: can someone help me identify the differences with various steeering arms used on TR4-6 (this is the part that bolts onto the vertical link and the rod end taper fits into) accoording to the parts books, these arms differ on every model TR4-6. they all bolt up to the same upright and all have the same tapered hole for the rod end, so what are the differences ?? not having several to put side by side, I suspect they may be different offsets/heights to change bump steer characteristics. thanks, Terry O'Beirne, Australia Road & Track 66 Pine Mountain Road North Ipswich, 4305 Queensland, AUSTRALIA ph 07-32018866 fax 07-32017079 www.roadandtrack.net.au From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sat Oct 23 19:43:46 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:43:46 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> References: <5AD10A31-9152-4943-B260-CC4EF2447AE7@charter.net> Message-ID: Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ > seacubeco at aol.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 24 12:14:59 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:14:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] James Gray Payment for Badge Message-ID: <164265C3-7899-45B5-83EF-D253AE2B316A@aol.com> James, I received your payment. Thanks From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Sun Oct 24 15:57:53 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 07:57:53 +1000 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: thanks to the various people who emailed me privately about this i have confirmed the steering link arms, top wishbone, and steering rack ends all changed dimensions when they moved to 3 degree caster. The factory TR4A book gives dimensioned drawings of the parts, early & late, so I can now identify them what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, and the repair manuals make no mention of this the steering arms for zero & 3 degree caster are quite different to look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the improvements Terry O'Beirne From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 16:15:56 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 15:15:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 24 17:28:46 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:28:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> Message-ID: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > tutorial on how to > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block The document can be downloaded from: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c Merci, Alexandre! Randall From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Oct 24 17:41:58 2010 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:41:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial Message-ID: <424c8.4f23fdde.39f61e46@aol.com> Thanx for posting that. It's precisely what I wanted to do on the GT6 for years but never got around to it. I'd heartily recommend a similar mod for the GT6 racers out there...Steve In a message dated 10/24/2010 4:29:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, TR3driver at ca.rr.com writes: http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 24 19:07:28 2010 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 18:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Short race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <489098.84937.qm@web57613.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Jerry and his son Scott were sharing Scott's Spitfire Saturdaay at the Midwest Council's Lonnng Race. Jerry went out for the first session and came in at the end saying he couldn't shift. Issue was diagnosed as three broken new ARP flywheel bolts where at least on of the bolt heads was jammed between the disk and pressure plate. Short race weekend. Still it was nice hanging out at the last race of the year, at least around here. Weather was rainy at times but mostly nice. --- On Sat, 10/23/10, christopher bock wrote: From: christopher bock Subject: Re: [Fot] Short race To: "Jerry Barr" Cc: ".Triumph List" Date: Saturday, October 23, 2010, 8:43 PM Must of been a really short race. No description of the race. On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Jerry Barr wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/seacubeco at aol.com _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ehusmann53 at yahoo.com From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Oct 25 00:30:47 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:30:47 +0200 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <0a3a01cb73c9$07ec79b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000b01cb740e$2a356e60$7ea04b20$@com> I like the short early TR4 arms most. They give a very crisp steering - like a gokart. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Randall Gesendet: Montag, 25. Oktober 2010 00:16 An: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences > what I still cant figure out however, is why there is a change between > wire & steel wheeled cars as suggested by parts books, I believe that it is only trying to indicate different change points for wire wheels vs disc wheels. IOW, there were some disc wheel cars with later commission numbers, but with the earlier suspension setup. The change points only differ by 50 numbers or so though, so not too many "cross over" cars. There are actually quite a few other examples where the change points were not "clean" in terms of commission number; many of them are not documented anywhere except in the cars themselves. At least part of the problem appears to be that cars were not finished in commission number order, and the change points happened when previous stocks were exhausted. Also, as I'm sure you have noticed, the change in caster only explains one of the steering arm changes, while there were quite a few different arms used. Randall _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Oct 25 09:13:05 2010 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 10:13:05 -0500 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. -Larry On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to > look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the > improvements > > Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:22:47 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:22:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> Message-ID: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Not really, bump steer is a kind of random thing. The only way to eliminate it completely is to have the suspension and the steering arms moving in exactly the same way as the suspension bumps. If the steering arms were parallel to the upright and in the plane of the wheel then changing their length would have no effect on bump steer, but they aren't, so changing them varies both the angle of the tie rod and the outer pivot point. It's almost a cut and try approach, it's hard to figure out which way to go without a simulation since so many parameters change. Having other arms available is a godsend. I had to make arms for Peyote to get it close. I have a pretty good collection of stock arms. You can also reverse the arms side to side. Offers lots of combinations. With a drag link type of steering it is difficult to change other parameters. You can bend the link arms, and with a lot of work you can move the steering box and drag ling up or down. With a rack it's a little easier--you can shim the rack up and down. TR4 racks are too wide, the pivot points for the tie rods are outside the plane of the upper and lower suspension pivot points. Not an easy fix, I haven't found any rack that really narrow enough for these cars. Peyote has a rack from an old Isuzu station wagon that comes pretty close. The good news is that you can minimize bump steer within the range of suspension travel, but with a steering system so far from optimal you can't really eliminate it. You also have to watch camber gain at the same time, but that only comes from the relationship of the upper and lower suspension arms. Shortened upper arms can give a lot of camber gain. On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:13 AM, Larry Young wrote: > Interesting that you should mention bump steer. My TR3A originally had the stock 0 degree caster A arms. I measured some very bad bump steer with the original suspension. I then rebuilt the suspension and installed shortened 3 degree A arms. I measured very little bump steer with the final setup, so I didn't change the steering arms. I suppose this data point just confuses the issue. > -Larry > > On 10/24/2010 4:57 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >> the steering arms for zero& 3 degree caster are quite different to >> look at , but i dont have any bump steer data as yet to work out the >> improvements >> >> Terry O'Beirne From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 10:38:56 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:38:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> References: <4CC59E81.7090903@pobox.com> <106B61A6-D5C5-41B8-8CCC-5F0467408A81@bnj.com> Message-ID: Oh, and I forgot to mention that changing the spacers on the steering arms is a nice, easy, small increment way to adjust for less bump. It moves the outer pivot point in or out by a small amount and so changes the bump steer. I've said this before, but for completeness: You want the pivot points of the upper and lower arms and the steering link to line up in the same plane, for both outer and inner pivots, and you want an imaginary line drawn through all three arms (upper and lower suspension and steering link) to intersect the same point. But since the only real way to achieve that is to start with a clean sheet of paper, varying any of those parameters--the inner and outer pivot points and the angle of the arms--will change bump steer. Since you're fiddling with an existing system the best you can do is play with those parameter you can change and see if you can minimize bump steer within the limits of suspension travel. From enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au Mon Oct 25 16:24:35 2010 From: enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au (Enquiries Road & Track) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:24:35 +1000 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences Message-ID: Steering rack length...... thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front suspension component differences there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in various kit cars. I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in changing bump steer in any triumph http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html Terry O'Beirne From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 25 17:24:32 2010 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (William Collins) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:24:32 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Koni adjustment on '72 Spit Message-ID: Just got my Series 80-1389 Konis back from True Choice after rebuilding and adding 30%. They are going on my '72 spit racer with GT6 suspension. We think the front springs are at least the 330's, but Ed Barnard suspects they're a little heavier. The rear is the latest version for the 1500 that Ed desprung and bushed for racing loads. The diff is welded. Wondering how many turns off full hard to set these things to start. Anybody got a thought? Bill Collins From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 17:35:10 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 18:35:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <034467AF-B159-4BD4-923A-6B512981F2FB@charter.net> From billb at bnj.com Mon Oct 25 18:02:01 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:02:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice article, very useful. On a TR3 the width of the upper pivots is about 432mm and the lower pivot is 585mm, so you can see the challenge of fitting a Triumph rack when the narrowest is 650mm. For the street car I'm building I did indeed use a TR4 rack--at least I assume it is, I bought the kit from Moss. I roughly measured it, it looks to be 650 mm wide and is 2.5 turns lock to lock. I anticipate doing a bunch of fiddling to minimize bump steer. I considered shortening the rack, but I figured I'd play with it a while before I take that step. I don't recall the width of Peyote's rack, but it's quite a bit narrower than the TR4. At the height I have it installed in Peyote (roughly midpoint between the upper and lower arms) it's pretty close to being in line with a line drawn through the upper and lower inner pivots. Pat Starr installed it initially, but I changed the mounting height and had it narrowed a little further in my efforts to eliminate bump steer. As I recall I had an inch taken off both ends. I didn't dare go much further. I also had flat steering arms made. As it turns out it has some positive ackerman though I wasn't paying much attention to that when I was fiddling. On Oct 25, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From jerrybarr at charter.net Mon Oct 25 18:38:09 2010 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:38:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers Message-ID: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Scott says try plain text so here we go. From billdentin at aol.com Mon Oct 25 20:03:36 2010 From: billdentin at aol.com (billdentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:03:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire cylinder head numbers In-Reply-To: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> References: <21214207-7D83-4006-B12B-F8D24E56303B@charter.net> Message-ID: <8CD42C922937106-758-66D1@webmail-d036.sysops.aol.com> <<< Scott says try plain text so here we go. >>> ______________________________________________ Jerry... Yeah! I think Scott's on to something. So far...that part's perfect. Bill (Damdinger) From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:18:59 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR2-3 improved oil pick up tutorial In-Reply-To: <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <003301cb71ce$64b97af0$2e2c70d0$@camoletti.ch> <39D5A09D-0BA9-4A1B-8E9C-F261F41C9979@bnj.com> <0a5901cb73d3$34900ae0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <20101026061827.7D7F018765D@autox.team.net> Randall, thanks for the link! The bit at the end about checking clearance with clay cannot be emphasized enough. Don't ask me how I know. :( - Tony Drews At 06:28 PM 10/24/2010, Randall wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Alexandre Camoletti wrote: > > > > > Just got from Kevin Johnson (Ishihara Johnson Crank scrapers > > > www.crank-scrapers.com ) an interesting and very useful > > tutorial on how to > > > use an oil pick up from the Dodge/Chevy 2.5 block > >The document can be downloaded from: >http://tinyurl.com/2wqmj8c > >Merci, Alexandre! >Randall >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Tue Oct 26 00:41:44 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:41:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101026064112.4E84718765B@autox.team.net> Wow. Another great article. We've really had some stellar technical content in the last couple of month on this list. I'm really pleased with that! Tony Drews At 05:24 PM 10/25/2010, Enquiries Road & Track wrote: >Steering rack length...... >thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front >suspension component differences >there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 >family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by >machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in >various kit cars. >I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted >on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in >changing bump steer in any triumph >http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > >Terry O'Beirne >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 08:10:49 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:10:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD432EBA1D9576-F40-9520@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Mid-Ohio in 2002 THE VINTAGE TRIUMPH #83 SUMMER ISSUE SIX PAGES OF COVERAGE PLUS THE COVER....PHOTO OF CARS AND FOT. EIGHT CARS FROM BRITAIN. 45 entries.......results, etc, etc. (This event spawned the Kastner Cup series following a conversation with Kas) I found a number of copies of this historic FOT event. $10 by check or PAYPAL will get you a copy. Check in with me first to insure I have any left. First come...... Joe Alexander 645 1st ST Jesup, IA 50648 PayPal n197tr4 at cs.com From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 08:55:51 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:55:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 09:20:52 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:20:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE In-Reply-To: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> References: <3d20f.3ca62877.39f845f7@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CD433880F6BA0D-1B04-42B15@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> yup....40th 50th now looking at 60th. MID-OHIO 1992 was the first big event we ran..Sean drove. That year was a milestone for the Alexanders......and all influenced by Wismer, Dentinger, Brick, et. al. MID-OHIO 2002 caused me to invite Kas, although I had never met him. Then the following year Kas & I initiated the Kastner Cup. Magical Stuff. Of course this all led to Kas writing 3 books with a 4th Book just days away from printing...in Iowa, BTW. Mid-Ohio 2002 in the VTR magazine is timely reading as it sets the stage for 2012. Not that far away....maybe 18 months or so. Planning is well advanced on the 60th Anniversary of the Sports Triumph. 50 Triumphs at this event will not be an unreasonable expectation and it will be very international. But wait....could Laguna Seca be in our future first? This has been announced for June of 2011, but details are still being worked on. Joe Alexander -----Original Message----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: n197tr4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 9:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] 50th ANNIVERSARY OF TRIUMPH MAGAZINES AVAILABLE Joe.... I'm a VTR member back to the late 1970s, and ''I've saved that issue. A great event that will always be near the top of my list is the 1992 Mid-Ohio event, when there was that incredible turnout of street Triumphs. They were given an all-Triumph tour of the track and I remember they were bumper to bumper, often two abreast, all the way around the circuit. I don't know how many were there, but it seemed like millions. Another neat collector item important to Triumph folk was a subsequent issue of Road & Track that included Peter Egan's article that started out, "I guess I knew that there were that many TRIUMPHS, but who'd have thought they'd all show up..." And they DID! Seems like the ALL showed up. Kas missed that event. If I remember correctly, he was killing Porsche race cars up at Limerock that week end. Later that year I took my panorama photograph of all of the vintage race cars from the event up to Road America for him to autograph. It was an IMSA practice day, and Kas and I sat at a table in his paddock and he told me stories about all of the models. A quirk to the story was that the only other person in the paddock at the time was super hot shoe, Geoff Brabham, who was sitting over in the corner by himself. I remember a quizzical look on his face that seemed to say, "What the hell's that all about." Bill Dentinger From n197tr4 at cs.com Tue Oct 26 10:48:47 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:48:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250 HOOD AND TRUNK BADGES AVAILABLE Message-ID: <8CD4344CB5CC847-598-357@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> I'd say these BADGES are exceptional and they are on eBay. Thought I'd better let the FOT know just in case. From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Oct 26 10:59:01 2010 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:59:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Racer Premiums @ The Loooong Race Message-ID: <4eb28.6fde8d5e.39f862d5@aol.com> Amici... Chicagoland Sports Car Club (Midwestern Council) gave out a bunch of racer premiums at the Loooong Race at Blackhawk Farms Raceway this past weekend. These included a large event poster, a thermal beer can holder, some Halloween hand out candy, and even a pocket comb. The poster is particular nice because it pictures a fine TRIUMPH TR4 race car at speed and getting ready to lap an MGA. Very nice! I don't have enough hair left to make the pocket comb worth keeping, so I'll probably put it on eBay. Bill (Damdinger) From rfdeanes at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 15:18:34 2010 From: rfdeanes at gmail.com (Robert Deanes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Re TR4-6 steering arm differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is good stuff, nice article. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Enquiries Road & Track < enquiries at roadandtrack.net.au> wrote: > Steering rack length...... > thanks again to the various people who have help with info re TR front > suspension component differences > there are numerous rack & rack end lengths in the TR/Spitfire/GT6 > family. also, it is quite easy to make small changes to the rack by > machining.At my work, we routinely cut down triumph racks to use in > various kit cars. > I wrote an article on triumph racks years ago and it is still posted > on my local TSOA. This might be worth reading for those interested in > changing bump steer in any triumph > http://www.tsoaq.org.au/technical-information/22.html > > Terry O'Beirne > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rfdeanes at gmail.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Oct 26 17:56:00 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:56:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR national convention at Jekyll Island Marty From budscars at comcast.net Tue Oct 26 18:14:56 2010 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video References: Message-ID: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in 1969...Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" To: "FOT" Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w > > > Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR > national convention at Jekyll Island > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net From bownes at seiri.com Tue Oct 26 18:20:47 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> References: <2217D646E1064559ADD10E7FBC4EB2AA@Bud> Message-ID: Awesome. Nice to see the old girl still has it in her. Surprised the front roll hoop got removed. That car is great fun. Bob On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:14 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Cool...that looks like a fast course....I was last on Jekyll Island in > 1969...Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty sukey" > To: "FOT" > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:56 PM > Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS7DT2C-w >> >> >> Above is a link to an in-car video of one of my autocross runs at the VTR >> national convention at Jekyll Island >> >> Marty >> _______________________________________________ >> fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/budscars at comcast.net >> > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Tue Oct 26 20:46:29 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [FOT] John Frifirici Badge payment Message-ID: John, Your payment has been received. Thank you Chris From jmwagner at greenheart.com Wed Oct 27 11:59:53 2010 From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:59:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] 1960 MGA Roadster Racer - $11500 (Mt Morris) Message-ID: <4CC86899.1040705@greenheart.com> Just thought this might be of interest... found while surfing... http://buffalo.craigslist.org/cto/2027408160.html From mark at bradakis.com Wed Oct 27 23:58:30 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:58:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Hey Mark!! In-Reply-To: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> References: <346DEF64-1216-4387-AA4E-43D3F5CB1075@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4CC91106.6000502@bradakis.com> First off, let me apologize for the delay. I've gotten WAY behind in a number of things, many related to Triumphs, both real and virtual. Sorry folks, but I will be working on getting caught up on things. Bill Babcock wrote: > Why do I keep getting messages truncated after the first paragraph? > Most likely it is the demime filter that each Team.Net message passes through before getting sent to the list. The filter I am using currently seems to have some other issues. One of these days I plan to try out using the demime filters built into Mailman. For those who don't know, the filters turn HTML formatted mail into plain text, strip attachments and such. I feel that is needed on all the email lists, it isn't an issue with forum posts. But at the moment I have other priorities demanding my time, so it might be a while. Maybe the FOT list will be a good testing ground when I do get to it. mjb. From mark at bradakis.com Thu Oct 28 00:37:08 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:37:08 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR Autocross in-car video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CC91A14.4020409@bradakis.com> Nice. You know, since I couldn't make it to Heartland Park in August I should have reset my sights on the VTR meet. I haven't been to one since Breckenridge. The 2011 convention will be quite a bit closer, perhaps I'll have a driveable Triumph by then. The glacial pace at which I've been progressing lately on various projects, though, might preclude having a decent car by then. I would love to have Killer back on the road (and track) again for next summer, though. Too much time at the computer, not enough time in the garage! mjb. From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 07:56:04 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:56:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FoT, Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. Jim G. From igofaster at att.net Thu Oct 28 08:32:32 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <385051.78802.qm@web180815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 11:38:44 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:38:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. Same head and carbs. Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 13:12:59 2010 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (toodamnfunky at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:12:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <4CC9B524.6070807@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Jim, Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the pants dyno ? I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. I do plan to buy his valves though. Jim G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: toodamnfunky at comcast.net Cc: "fot" Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:38:44 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates On 10/28/2010 9:56 AM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > FoT, > > Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to the big valves > > so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > B B Jim, unfortunately I have no way to measure CFM, but here is some anecdotal data. B In my TR4's previous build I had an Isky 777 cam, ported head (1.5" intake all the way to the seat), polished exhausts, standard valves and dual 40 DCOEs. B At 1000 idle I could easily hold my hand right at the tail pipe. B I had Isky reduce the duration on the 777 to come on the cam at 3K instead of 3.5K (I think the grind is GM-72, can find that if you need it) and I used BFE's oversize valves (which are gas-flowed, and a work of art - I hated to get them dirty) on intake and exhaust. B Same head and carbs. B Now I can't hold my hand closer than about 8-10". B At idle (1K) the exhaust will vigorously flap my jeans leg from 3' away. This is clearly not scientific but I'm very impressed w/Ken's valves. B The engine pumps a *lot* more air than with the standard valves. B Ken may have flow data, I didn't think to ask him at the time. hth jim > > > > From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > > "optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > > "this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size of the inlet valves does > > NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > > I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > > I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > > Jim G. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhassall at blacksburg.net > > > > B B -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jhassall at blacksburg.net Thu Oct 28 13:33:36 2010 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 15:33:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <822486737.411028.1288293179437.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CC9D010.6020600@blacksburg.net> On 10/28/2010 3:12 PM, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: > > Jim, > > Yes, not too scientific but a noticable difference. Since you didn't > mention it I assume you didn't have it dyno'd. How about seat of the > pants dyno ? > > I did correspond with Ken and he doesn't have any flow data either. > > I do plan to buy his valves though. > > Jim G. > Sorry Jim, the only dyno w/i 5 hours of here closed just before I could get there. With this setup, and the carbs still pig-rich, I can light the tires in second gear. Couldn't to that before. I haven't been in a drag race with my Saturn SL2 but I'm sure the TR would leave it in the dust. jim -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From jaboruch at netzero.net Thu Oct 28 17:11:24 2010 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 GMT Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Message-ID: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc From jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com Thu Oct 28 18:43:05 2010 From: jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com (john preston) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 20:43:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Bobby, I have always used Rotella to break in an engine...high compression full race and regular street engines. Rotella has a higher Zinc and Magnesium content that helps to bed in bearing surfaces gradually during the initial warm up....how and why I do not know..gnomes I guess. I ran each engine at idle or slightly elevated until warm then ran it up the tach midway...NO RELINE. Then swapped it our for Valvoline or Mobile full race. Then run very easy on the first few laps, and push it, but not red line on the last. Then go great guns on the next session. It has worked so far. There is a dyno shop about 5 mins from my house and they will NOT run a new engine on the dyno without Rotella. Good luck, John P > From: jaboruch at netzero.net > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:11:24 +0000 > To: igofaster at att.net > CC: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in > > Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle > (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change > the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that > for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as > what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track > session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that > the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it > would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it > to speed, but so far have not had a problem. > > The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do > about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the > temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than > running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Bobby Whitehead > To: FoT Triumph > Subject: [Fot] engine break-in > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) > > After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I > finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm > registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs > break > in oil. > So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? > run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should > I > run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home > after > (optimistically) I run through the weekend. > Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth > for > 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 > minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... > > All the best, > Bobby Whitehead > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hate Carrying Pet Food? > Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jpflyingsquirrel at hotmail.com From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Oct 28 19:10:11 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:10:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by then. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:11 PM To: igofaster at att.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in Bobby, with my TR3, I first run it in, in the garage, at a high idle (2000-2500rpms) with Valvoline racing oil for about 20 minutes. Then I change the oil and filter to a break-in oil like Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn. I run that for the whole weekend, but an SCCA weekend will not have as much track time as what you described. I will slowly build up the RPMs during my first track session up to my usual redline by the end of the session. I am confident that the parts are all going to play nicely together and if there was a problem it would manifest itself quickly. Some have been surprised at how fast I run it to speed, but so far have not had a problem. The times I have watched my machine shop run new engines on the dyno they do about the same. They warm it up on the dyno, do some mild pulls to get the temps up then they do WOT pulls to the redline. How is that any better than running it in on the track in the first session? Joe(B) ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Bobby Whitehead To: FoT Triumph Subject: [Fot] engine break-in Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:32:32 -0700 (PDT) After working out a vacuum leak in my intake manifold or carb's or both, I finally got the GT6 to fire on all cylinders although a little rough. I'm registered for TWS with CVAR for next weekend. The engine oil is Joe Gibbs break in oil. So... brand new rebuild. What should be my break in plan for the weekend? run 4000 rpm for friday and gradually get to 5000 ... 6000 by sunday? should I run the break in oil through the weekend and change when we get back home after (optimistically) I run through the weekend. Friday is test and tune, open wheel cars and close wheel cars back and forth for 15 minute sessions, usually 4-5 times out on the track... Saturday, three 15 minute sessions. Sunday 1 15 minute session, two 20 minute sessions... All the best, Bobby Whitehead _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jaboruch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ Hate Carrying Pet Food? Join the PetFlow auto-delivery service and save 25% It's free to join! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3231/4cca0363450794b963dst05duc _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/norlinengineering at comcast.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Oct 28 23:04:21 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:04:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home Message-ID: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Anyone got a use for a TR3 engine block? I've got several of them that need to find new homes soon ... if no one wants them they'll go to the scrap yard. I've got kind of a storage crisis, caused by the loft in my garage collapsing. (No, the blocks weren't in the loft, but I need to clear out the space below so I can replace the rafters.) Not sure of condition, or even how they came to be in my possession (they've been laying around for at least 20 years), but there is nothing obviously wrong with the one I have out now except some surface rust and maybe a broken stud or two. Main caps & liners (83mm, might be original) are included, pretty everything else that can be removed has been. I would prefer local pickup, but we can probably work something out if you want to pay for shipping. Randall From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:07:43 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:07:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 head flow rates In-Reply-To: <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emery ville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <192281455.394297.1288273628294.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <326040664.394709.1288274164104.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20101029060716.AB8C2187645@autox.team.net> My head has stock diameter valves and was a comptune flow, but uncle jack got even more out of it. Wish I had asked him what he did. I do not have the flow numbers, but all work was verified on a flow bench. With the 87 mm liners, I have as good a flow as we got with the oversized valves. What happens is that the valve is so close to the edge of the liner that it shrouds the outside of the valve and effectively reduces its diameter. If you are running 89 mm or larger liners you'll have a better chance of gaining an advantage with the oversized valves. I agree they are works of art. The stuff that seems to OBVIOUSLY improve flow does not actually improve flow. There are certain key areas in the port that really matter, unfortunately I don't know exactly where they are. - Tony At 08:56 AM 10/28/2010, toodamnfunky at comcast.net wrote: >FoT, > >Does anyone have any TR-4 head flow data. I'm thinking of going to >the big valves > >so I decided it's time to get smart on the subject. > > > > >From TeriAnn's website discussing webers. > >"optimum gas speed" for best flow was 325 fps. > > > >"this might explain a little why lots of times increasing the size >of the inlet valves does > >NOTHING for the power and may even be a deterrent." > > > >I use the mikuni hsr45 smooth bores which flow at 237 CFM. > >I'm just trying to put things into some perspective. > > > >Jim G. >_______________________________________________ >fot at autox.team.net > >http://www.fot-racing.com > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony at tonydrews.com From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Oct 29 00:30:06 2010 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:30:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> References: <20101028.191124.14831.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> <7.1.0.9.0.20101029011527.049f4e90@tonydrews.com> Message-ID: <20101029062931.9E217187669@autox.team.net> Oops - too long, forgot to . The 20 to 25 minutes at 2000 to 2500 (with high zddp oil) is key to the cam and lifters. I do that with every rebuild in the garage. That's usually a great time to have a beer to celebrate and to let me neighbors know that I still have the race car. - Tony Drews At 08:10 PM 10/28/2010, Norlin Engineering wrote: >>My engine builder has me do much the same. The most critical part as far as >>I can tell from talking with him is the initial 20-30 minutes at 2000-2500 >>rpm. Do not let it idle during this time. He uses the Joe Gibbs breakin >>oil for the first weekend. I'm then switching out to Redline 40 wt at his >>recommendation. We checked the bearings before going to the runoffs and >>they looked like new. The engine had at least a dozen weekends on it by >>then. >> >>Jim From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 29 00:36:43 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:36:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 engine block free to a good home In-Reply-To: References: <049301cb7726$c028e800$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <049801cb7733$a6efc540$0301a8c0@randall> > Randall, where are you located? My apologies, should have included that. I (and the blocks) are located near the Long Beach, CA airport, about 20 miles south of Los Angeles. Randall From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Fri Oct 29 00:52:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: Message-ID: If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Fri Oct 29 06:27:05 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (Christopher Bock) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grill badge update 10-29-2010 Message-ID: <2D303FA5-EE1B-4174-BB4E-C19FC235F3C6@aol.com> Amici, Today is Friday and I have news! There is only the weekend to decide if you want one or not! But that isn't all the news I have. I will be getting the first sample badge this weekend. I will have actual pictures and I will be posting a video on YouTube of it Monday night. There are 74 badges sold do far. I am pushing the deadline to Wednesday at 9am! That should give everyone time to see the video and ask for pictures. I don't have a place to host the pics so just ask for them if you want them. Payment is paypal (SeaCubeCo at aol.com) or mail (Chris Bock, 3630 Italia ave, Vineland, NJ 08361). If mailing please let me know so i can have an accurate count. Thanks From gasket.works at gte.net Fri Oct 29 07:42:47 2010 From: gasket.works at gte.net (gasket.works at gte.net) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:42:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Oct 29 08:03:24 2010 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:03:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire engine with clean oil through it. A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared to start-up bearing wear. On Oct 29, 2010, at 9:42 AM, gasket.works at gte.net wrote: Greg; Best explanation I've heard. M Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Greg Solow" Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:52:10 To: Friends of Triumph Reply-to: Greg Solow Subject: Re: [Fot] engine break-in If everything in an engine is in good shape & there are no problems with fit, finish and lubrication, then the critical areas during breaking are the iron to iron or steel to steel surfaces that are lubricated by the oil film and not by Hydrostatic lubrication. The main, rod, & cam bearings are never really supposed to touch the cam or crank as there is a separating film of oil that is captured and forced into the space by the oil pump. The cam and lifters, the valve stem tips to the rocker arms, the rings against the cylinder walls, the Timing chain, sprockets and tensioner are the critical areas in a TR-4 type engine. The cam wants the engine to go fast enough to keep oil splashing on it and to keep the surface speed of the lifter on the cam high enough, but not to high, during the first 15 to 20 minutes of operation, especially. The rings want enough gas pressure above the top ring to keep the ring pressed against the cylinder wall so it will "wear in" both the wall and the ring face. Again it wants enough oil to keep it lubricated and cool, but not to much speed until the surfaces have begun to "mate" with one another. We always break in with Chevron Delo, Brad Penn, or Torco, which we continue to race with. We run at about 2200 rpm for the first 15 to 20 minutes, then shut down, retorque the head, adjust the valves, look for plenty of oil on the top of the head. If we are at the track, we then run 2 or 3 laps at up the 4,000 rpm using about 2/3 of WOT, then go up 500 rpm every two laps or so to 6,000 at WOT after about 20 to 25 minutes of running. What is most important is that the oil and water temperatures remain stable. It is also good to decelerate from 4,000 down to 3,000 with the throttle completely closed to create high vacuum in the cylinders during the first couple of laps (make sure there is no one behind you when you do this!), to draw oil up into the ring belt and cool off the rings during their initial breakin under load. By the end of the 2nd session, everything should be well broken in. Adjust the valves hot, right off of the track so clearances are as close as possible to the 'running" condition and temperature. Sometime in the middle of the 2'nd session, it is good to do a "clean cut" and coast into the pits to look at the spark plugs and make sure there are no signs of detonation. These usually manifest themselves as tiny black speckles like black pepper on the clean white ceramic of the spark plug insulator. If you see any of this, retard the timing & or richen the mixture. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gasket.works at gte.net _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/s.janzen at comcast.net From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 29 09:40:48 2010 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in In-Reply-To: <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> References: , <598014509-1288359765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>, <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: > An oil pre-lube tank connected to the galley is a great way to fill > the system after a re-build. The system sees full pressure from an > air supply. Works just like an accusump but you can fill the entire > engine with clean oil through it. > A little expensive to have for occasional use, but worth it compared > to start-up bearing wear. Doesn't have to be expensive. We made one from one of those pump-up pesticide sprayers and appropriate hose and fittings. John H. From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:09:06 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:09:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> Message-ID: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:28:14 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bearing lubrication Message-ID: Just a clarification about bearing lubrication. The actual oil film that keeps the crankshaft and camshaft from touching the main, rod or cam bearings is not the oil pressure generated by the oil pump. The oil pump supplies oil to keep the space between the crankshaft and the bearings full. As the crankshaft rotates, it does not remain in the center of the bearing clearance space, but it is constantly being pushed around in that space as it rotates by the loads that are applied to it. As it moves around, it pushes a "wedge" of oil just in front of the spot where the maximum load is applied at that moment. The crankshaft "rides up" as it were, on that wedge oil. That wedge of oil is what keeps the crank separated from the bearings. If the supply of oil is interrupted, for even and instant, the wedge or oil is lost. Then all that is separating the metal parts is the "film strength" of the oil in question.. The film strength is determined by the type of base stock of the oil, and the additive package. The viscosity of the oil plays a part in this to a certain extent also. Thicker oil is harder to force out from between the moving parts than thinner oil is, but the viscosity is probably more related to the clearances between the parts. With tighter clearances, you can run thinner oil, but tighter clearances require more rigid and stiffer parts that will not flex or bend. After market steel rods are not only much stronger than the originals, but are much stiffer, and hold a rounder hole for the rod bearings. But due to the 3 main bearing crank, the lack of journal overlap & the stroke of the engine, the crank is not very rigid, no mater who made it. Under the loads of high horsepower & high revs, it moves and bends all over the place. A friend who used to work on AA Fuel drag Chrysler Hemi engine told me they had terrible problems wiping out the main bearings because of crank and block flex until they gave the main bearings .010" or so clearance and used 70 SAE weight oil to keep the pressure up. This let the crank and block move around without actually touching one another. Greg Solow The Engine Room Morgan & Sports Car Specialists Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 831 429-1800 From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 00:38:55 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:38:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] engine break-in References: <001801cb7741$02ae7b80$080b7280$@camoletti.ch> Message-ID: <1CCE8B51FCC348C6B307A4FB3E29607C@your89d26e0447> You may be able to contact Shell Oil technical services in Europe..They could tell you the Zinc and Phosphorus content of the Shell Rotella oils available in Europe. I would bet they are the same as here. The "automotive Diesel" grade oils that are sold here, were formulated for European Diesel engine cars to meet the car manufacturer's specs. You are looking for over 1600 parts per million of Zink and 1300 parts per million of Phosphorus. Greg Solow From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Oct 30 02:17:11 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:17:11 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system In-Reply-To: <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> References: <598014509-128835976 5-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1689080991-@bda2226.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <51001C85-D9F4-48E1-934D-67F668DCD739@comcast.net> <278AD24108654D4FB375F876F3FF7576@your89d26e0447> Message-ID: <001201cb780a$dc60f960$9522ec20$@com> To pressurize the oil after engine assembly I have a dummy oil pump drive which I rotate with a drill. When the oil pressure gauge shows 50 PSI then everything in my opinion is ready to fire up. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Greg Solow Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 08:09 An: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Betreff: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Sat Oct 30 06:46:18 2010 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 07:46:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and lifter combination are run together? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: Friends of Triumph Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Sat Oct 30 01:09:06 2010 Subject: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system Using a tank to fill the oil passages before starting a fresh engine is always a good thing. What we do is, 1. During assembly of the engine, as each rod is installed, the rod with its bearing half is pulled up against the crank, then using a pump oil can with an engine assembly mixture of 40 or 50 sae racing oil and Molybdenum di Sulfide oil additive (like Mr. Moly) we pump the oil passages in the crankshaft full of oil, then install the bearing cap and torque into place. Fill the oil filter canister or oil filter with oil before installing it on the engine. leave the spark plugs out. Fill the engine sump to the full mark, then crank the engine until you see 40 or 50 psi of oil pressure on the gauge. In our experience, this should take about one or two minutes of cranking. You will hear the engine slow down slightly when all of the passageways fill and oil pressure is generated on the gauge. Then install the spark plugs, make sure the valves are properly adjusted and the timing is set correctly. If everything is right, with fuel and spark, the engine should fire right up. Immediately bring the idle up the 2,000 to 2,200 rpm and keep it there for 15 to 20 minutes. DO NOT REV OR "BLIP" THE ENGINE UP ABOVE 2,500 RPM DURING THIS INITIAL CAM BREAK IN PERIOD. raising the surface speed of the lifters on the cam during this initial break in period can cause terminal damage to the cam and lifters. Using this procedure, we have never had any oil starvation damage to any engines we have ever done. Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure, with the spark plugs removed, and the oil passages of the crankshaft previously filled with oil puts no stress on any of the bearings. There is heavy rubbing of the lifters on the cam and the rocker assembly (which should also have been pumped full of oil during engine assembly) and the valve stem tips to the rocker arms. But that is what assembly lube paste is for..We use Moly (grey colored) assembly lube paste. Redline also makes a good assembly lube paste. As far as I am concerned, this is only for steel or iron to steel or iron surfaces, never to be used where there are "bearings" involved. Greg Solow _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/scott.barr at mccarty-law.com From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Oct 30 08:21:09 2010 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (Bob Kramer) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube Message-ID: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> We should let Greg answer, but when I reassemble an engine using existing cam and lifters I use a thin coating of cam lube and pump oil all over it. I've used the stuff in the little yellow tub that Ken G. sends out with his camshafts and also bought the CompCam cam oil for this purpose. Then I just worry about oil pressure prior to startup, then seating the rings. Greg noted how he does not use Moly paste on bearings. I think this is a worthy thread on it's own. I have the Redline white assembly lube, the moly paste, and a couple of brands of the sticky red goo that I use differently depending on the situation. I think I have been using them incorrectly and I'd like to learn what is correct. Fot example, I use the red goo for bearings on new engines but when I replace bearing in situ I have been using the moly paste because it doesn't run all over the place. Bob Kramer Volente, TX Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. Vince Lombardi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barr, Scott" > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Pressurizing the oilins system > > >> Is it necessary to do the 20-minute run for initial cam break-in period >> each time you reassemble an engine, or only the first time a new cam and >> lifter combination are run together? >> >> Scott From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sat Oct 30 15:02:22 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:02:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] assembly lube References: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7401E7282E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <5B6FEE5698B54CE3B1A238D9A1AC9B30@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <1464572A20A140A98E7CFB76533082A6@your89d26e0447> Most of the cam grinders supply assembly lube paste with their cams. We can supply tubes of Moly paste for under 10.00 a tube made by "Lubromolly" a German company. "HRL" used to supply it. There are a lot of different suppliers. they are probably all ok as long as the contain Molybdenum di Sulfide as the primary extreme pressure additive. We try to use this past on all iron to iron (cam & lifters) or steel to steel (rocker arm tip to the end of the valve stem, that are subjected to very high contact pressures and rubbing contact any time the engine has been freshly assembled, but especially when the parts are new and have never run together. For the rest of the engine, crank, rod bearings, piston to pin, rings, piston skirts, rod bush to pin, rocker shaft to rocker arms, oil pump, timing chain and tensioner, cam bearings and journals, front and rear seals, & so on, we think it is appropriate to use oil. Good 50 weight racing oil fortified with a liquid Moly supplement is what we use. We make it up by mixing a 50/50 mix of the engine oil with a good liquid engine oil supplement that contains a high amount of Moly. I do not have an exhaustive list of suppliers, but "Mr Moly" & "Slip", are two that I have used over the years with good success. It may be that in this application, the Moly may not make any difference, but that what is important is the liberal application of high quality 50 weight Racing oil. The 50 SAE oil will not drain away in storage, (unless it is for a very long time). It may be that the Moly just makes me feel good by its' presents! Using assembly lube paste where there are bearings (ie. actual bearing material like on a typical rod bearing) can destroy the bearing upon startup. The paste can be thick enough do to this. "Don't ask me how I know this!" A lot of "production engine rebuilders" use thin, lightweight bearing assembly grease on bearings in engines that might be "on the self" for a long time before they are used. "Lubriplate" makes an assembly lube grease that is lightweight and white in color for this purpose. It has a good reputation. I have never used it for this purpose. All the engines we do are usually put in service within a short time after they are assembled. The purpose of the Lubriplate assembly grease is to insure that the there is lubrication on all of the bearing surfaces if the engine has been in storage for over months or a year after it was assembled. Greg Solow PS Moly as an anti-friction, extreme pressure additive really works. Years ago we did a valve job on an air cooler VW. Just after putting the engine back into the car I drove it over Highway 17 past San Jose to Hayward.The first 30 miles I took it easy, below 55 mph. Then I speeded up to 65 mph on the flat in San Jose, 2 or 3 minutes at that speed and the #1 Exhaust valve would stick in the guide & the pushrod would fall out of position in the rocker arm. Probably excess heat. times I freed up the valve and put the pushrod back in position, each time 3 or minutes at 65 mph, the same thing happened. In Hayward I put in a bottle of "slip" Moly engine oil additive. 75 mph all the way back to Santa Cruz. The valve never stuck again. This was a permanent fix. The Moly really does "plate on" to the surface of the metals and creates a sacrificial sliding surface of molecules that prevents metal to metal contact. From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Oct 31 08:00:40 2010 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:00:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty From cwnfot at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 08:02:11 2010 From: cwnfot at gmail.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:02:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] SEMA/AAPEX Las Vegas this week In-Reply-To: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> References: <3B32A74CE5D047E690CD57E5985B53F2@latitudefb1e41> Message-ID: <00cc01cb7904$374f11f0$a5ed35d0$@com> Anyone attending SEMA show in Las Vegas this Tuesday-Friday? I'll be there looking around Wednesday-Thursday (AAPEX on Tuesday), mostly the Central hall. I remember speaking with the Shell Answer Man a couple of years ago about the oils and our cams, way over my head! www.semashow.com Clark Clark W. Nicholls 1972 Stag (LE7931E), 1974 Spitfire (FM14571U) and 1 rusty GT6 needing new owner "Reality, it's not what you think." From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 08:54:17 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:54:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cb790b$7f1ae020$7d50a060$@com> I have no idea what is needed in USA but are forced to use overalls with 3 layer Nomex III. One piece overalls are very comfortable ande if you buy a black one you can work on the car if you have to. Take in account your presumable body weight as these suits don't expand and you have to buy a new one. A really hard job to force myself to stay with 74-76 kg. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von marty sukey Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 15:01 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. Recommendations? Marty _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 09:07:30 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Message-ID: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Oct 31 09:14:12 2010 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 16:14:12 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701cb790e$48344800$d89cd800$@com> For my part I do the re-torquing HOT. After the initial run of about 10-20 min and water at 185F I torque to the desired value. At hot my experience is that you can turn each nut about a quarter turn without loosen them before. And the good thing is that the torque at temperature is more even then. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von EDWARD BARNARD Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Oktober 2010 16:08 An: FOT Betreff: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing at googlemail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Oct 31 09:58:47 2010 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:58:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <076101cb7914$80d09050$0301a8c0@randall> > This > phenomenon probably has > a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. We called it "stiction", a contraction of "static friction". > In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set > the torque > wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the > bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? Definitely loosen and retorque, always. You should also endeavor to meet the torque spec with the nut/bolt still turning. If you let it stop just slightly short of the torque target, stiction will stop the fastener from turning to it's correct final position. I was taught that, if that happens, you must back off and torque again. This isn't so much an issue with the 'clicker' type torque wrenches (which BTW should be recalibrated often, especially if you are having problems), but could be with the beam (or dial) type torque wrenches where it is sometimes hard to watch the pointer while also pulling on the wrench. Randall From LimeyV8 at aol.com Sun Oct 31 09:59:38 2010 From: LimeyV8 at aol.com (LimeyV8 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:59:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions Message-ID: <107f9.43b3cd5d.39feec6a@aol.com> In a message dated 10/31/2010 10:22:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. I've only used a 1 piece 3-layer suit. I like it. With a 3-layer suit and no nomex undies, i think its a lot easier to get comfortable out of the car - wear gym shorts and a T-shirt under a 3-layer suit and you can get out of it pretty quick without having to go somewhere else and change. I suppose a 2-piece suit offers a similar advantage (take off the top only) but I'd rather get out of the whole thing. Note: so far, I've only raced in The Sunny South - in a northern climate YMMV I must add this: I think the Cool Shirt is the greatest invention since the wheel - in August at Roebling Road, the heat index was 107 degrees - the most comfortable place to be was in the car in a 3 piece suit, balaclava, and full face helmet - with ice water running thru the Cool Shirt. Cheers, Jack Mc From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 10:34:20 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:34:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> I prefer the three layer, as much because I have such a lousy memory as anything else. One thing to wash, one thing to remember. I have a lot of balaclavas and socks, mostly because I've forgotten them and needed to buy more at the track. I think if I had underwear I'd be going onto the track without it if I left it at home. Yes, I know tech inspection checks that and its my responsibility to comply. And your point is? On Oct 31, 2010, at 7:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/billb at bnj.com From billb at bnj.com Sun Oct 31 10:44:37 2010 From: billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:44:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67550585-DC87-4607-A4EC-F921FD28E586@bnj.com> for any fastener that has critical torque, the standard is to lubricate the threads initially and re-torque by loosening and then retightening, ensuring the fastener is moving when the torque spec is reached. The benefit of all this is to reduce the variables that might leave fasteners with varied actual clamping force. Make certain that you use a washer of proper hardness and lubricate the faces of the washer. Also understand that a fifty year old stud that didn't snap last time might never have been torqued with lubricated threads. You WILL reach a higher degree of stretch with lubricated threads. The prudent first step might be a full set of ARP studs. On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:07 AM, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Lister's: > I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. From igofaster at att.net Sun Oct 31 11:01:49 2010 From: igofaster at att.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <659465.92486.qm@web180820.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hey Edward and others... timely questions on head torque... Many thanks to Kas and all the others on information relating to 'break-in' of a fresh build... I have to go with Kas as he "has done it this way for 40 years" which was run the engine without blipping up to 2000 rpm for 15 minutes, stop, check everything, if all checks out, re-start run up to 2500 rpm for 5 minutes. Drain break-in oil, change filter, add oil and go racing.... pretty straight forward. Thank FoT and Kas for the treasured information and advice. Now... re-torquing head and adjusting the valves before we go racing. I'm running 10.5 : 1 compression with ARP head bolts and nuts. The service manual calls for head torque @ 65-70 lbs. Shouldn't I be torquing the head more with added compression and ARP hardware? All the best.... Sunday garage time. Beer. Football. Wrenching.... Bobby Whitehead ________________________________ From bownes at seiri.com Sun Oct 31 11:27:08 2010 From: bownes at seiri.com (Bob Bownes -Seiri) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 13:27:08 -0400 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some sanctioning bodies don't allow 2 piece suits. IMHO, 3 layer is the only way to fly. Quicker to get into, easier to deal with. Bob On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:00 AM, marty sukey wrote: > Soliciting opinions, positives/negatives. One piece versus two piece? Two > layer with flame retardant undies versus three layer with out. > Recommendations? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/bownes at web9.com From n197tr4 at cs.com Sun Oct 31 13:58:41 2010 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:58:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing In-Reply-To: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CD474D2688B310-1DC4-118DD@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com> perhaps the term you are looking for is BREAK AWAY TORQUE. -----Original Message----- From: EDWARD BARNARD To: FOT Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 10:07 am Subject: [Fot] Head torquing Lister's: I have a question to pose to the list concerning re-torquing head bolts/studs. Please post your answers on the list for the other members to absorb. We continue to have blown and leaking head gaskets on Bill Collin's 1300 Spitty. I don't want to muddy the water on the head gasket media to use...just the "proper" way to re-torque a head. "We" know that it takes more torque to initially turn a bolt or nut. Once it is turning the required torque to turn it drops. This phenomenon probably has a name which has escaped me in the thirty years since college. In light of this, when re-torquing a head should you just set the torque wrench to the desired torque and have at it, or should you loosen the bolts/nuts and re-torque to spec? I have wondered this every time I re-torque a head, and the torque wrench "clicks" as soon as I start to turn the nut. Is the torque correct? Am I under torque? Triumph even had 4 or 5 technical bulletins to address blown head gaskets on the TR7; one of which stated you should loosen the bolts and re-torque to spec. I look forward to the answer we receive from the list of knowledge. Thanks in advance. -Ed- _______________________________________________ fot at autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/n197tr4 at cs.com From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Oct 31 15:47:25 2010 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Help with Mayflower parts Message-ID: <381049.67523.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: Hopefully you have stopped laughing at the subject line. Yes...I wrote Mayflower. Could Andy Mace and/or any other Mayflower owners on the list please email me? I am looking for good stateside sources for Mayflower parts. No, not lightened flywheels, billet rods or roller rockers. Rockers, what was I thinking? All joking aside, I have a Mayflower in the shop I need to order parts for. Thx -Ed- From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Sun Oct 31 19:13:10 2010 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:13:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Head torquing References: <927583.87700.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: First make sure the head and block surfaces are clean and flat and that all of the threaded holes in the block have good clean threads. With studs, screw in the studs hand tight only. Do not tighten studs into a block unless you are sure that the bottom of the stud can hit the bottom of the hole. On a TR4 type engine, the studs do not have as long a bottom as the hole is deep, the stud will thread into the block stop where the threads on the stud end. If you continue to torque the stud into the block, the threads will try to pull the stud down into the hole and the stud will act like a wedge. It will cause the block to crack from the stud hole to whatever the nearest open area is. This is the reason most "tractor" blocks have cracks at the left rear stud hole going to the water jacket. There are improvements to be made here, but that is another storey. So just tighten the studs hand tight. We have found Permetex "Anti-Seize" when used as a lubricant on the head bolt thread, washers and nuts, does not change the torque that is applied, but does help prevent the "sticktion" mentioned in the earlier posts, so that it becomes less necessary to loosen the nuts first during retorquing. So on a TR-4, we apply the anti- seize to the fine threads on the top of the stud, to the top surface of the washer and to the inside of the nut and its' bottom surface. Tighten the nuts using a normal torquing sequence to about 30 lbs. ft., then 50, then 70, then we go to 85 or 90. We use this as a maximum torque. WE no longer torque heads to 105 lbs. ft. as we have not found it necessary, and it only leads to broken and stripped studs and head nuts. Run the engine to get it fully up to operating temperature, then retorque the head hot, to the same torque figure as the initial torque. With a solid steel head gasket, you can try again, but we have found nothing will tighten any more. With a composite (copper/asbestos) or other "non solid sheet" gasket, we hold retorque the head again after a couple of heat cycles. If you wish to loosen each nut before retorqing, there is certainly no harm in doing so. It is good to mark each nut with a scribed line before you loosen it up, so you can tell if it tightened to a position that is tighter than it was in the begining. If I try to tighten a nut or stud, and it will not move, then it is definitely good practice to loosen and then retorque. These general instructions ( except for the torque figures quoted) will hold true for any cast iron block and head combination. Using ARP moly based assembly lube paste on the head nuts and studs will require a reduction in torque of over 30% because it is so slippery. We have tried using the ARP lube and one time actually crushed the raised boss on a TR-4 head above the intake ports. The Anti-Seize works very well. On modern engines the manufacturers no longer (generally) use torque figures for head tightening. The engineers have calculated how much "stretch" on the head bolts they need to get the clamping pressure on the head gasket that they want, & the procedure is to torque to 20 lbs, ft.or less, then use a protractor and tighten the bolt a certain number of degrees from that point, the desired preload is calculated by the pitch of the threads of the bolt. This procedure avoids the variables caused by the friction of the bolt or nut on the threads or the washer and achieves a more consistent clamping force on the gasket. Greg Solow From SeaCubeCo at aol.com Sun Oct 31 19:57:51 2010 From: SeaCubeCo at aol.com (christopher bock) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics Message-ID: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Amici, I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till tonight. Here is a video link of it. Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT facebook page. The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight to this thing. I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had available at this time. The price is still ONLY $30. The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good count. I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep them coming! total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. Thank you for all who want this. Chris. From invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com Sun Oct 31 20:45:36 2010 From: invite+zrdovceolhze at facebookmail.com (James E Roelofs) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:45:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Check out my photos on Facebook Message-ID: <8bb78e0a42c860b20990ff8c7367caab@www.facebook.com> Hi Friends, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, James To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000090934512&k=Z6E3Y5WRUW4CZCFJPB63QUVZR3B 1X33NUWHYFD3BQT&r Already have an account? Add this email address to your account: http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=fot%40autox.team.net&c=e1d8b2 c84ed5c4bb2237931fde46d39f ======================================= fot at autox.team.net was invited to join Facebook by James E Roelofs. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please follow the link below to unsubscribe. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=74f522&u=100001791913713&mid=33826fdG5af37b48 aef1G0G8 Facebook, Inc. P.O. Box 10005, Palo Alto, CA 94303 From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 20:53:49 2010 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] drivers suit opinions In-Reply-To: <0C2712E4-319A-43D8-8AE5-8099594BB5DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: Agree on the one piece three layer. I started with the two piece with undies - lots of bits and it all moves around. Went to a two layer one piece with undies - much better, but the new three piece is much better - and in my opinion actually cooler. I still carry the two piece with undies in addition to the three piece for really long weekends. Jim From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sun Oct 31 22:16:32 2010 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 00:16:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics In-Reply-To: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> References: <77586090-F2F5-4664-A96A-935018DC9546@aol.com> Message-ID: Very nice thanks for all the work please don't let mine touch the mg grill ----- Original Message ----- From: "christopher bock" To: "FoTTriumph" Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: [Fot] Grille Badge video and Pics > Amici, > I received the sample badge saturday but I was out of state till > tonight. > > Here is a video link of it. > > Youtube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7ImFM3JaQ (cut > and paste) or go to youtube and search for "fot grille badge" > > Pictures can be emailed at your request. They are also posted on the FOT > facebook page. > > The badge is 2 1/2 inches high and 3 inches wide. It mounts with two > studs. The supplied threaded rod is long and will need to be cut to > length. I would test mount it first. Cut the threaded rod to desired > length, then threadlock it into the badge. Either use two nuts together > or get a locking nut. The badge isn't flimsy material. There is weight > to this thing. > > I am sorry for mounting it on a MG Midget grill but that is what I had > available at this time. > > > The price is still ONLY $30. > > The deadline has been pushed to November 3rd at 9am. At that time I will > be placing the order. I will be checking my email right before I do call. > If your going to send a check email me and let me know so I get a good > count. > > I just love getting the mail and receiving a check from someone. Keep > them coming! > > total as of 10 pm eastern is 77 badges. > > Thank you for all who want this. > > Chris. > _______________________________________________ > fot at autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/19to1tr6 at comcast.net