[Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
Jerry Barr
jerrybarr at charter.net
Fri Sep 26 08:18:11 MDT 2008
I would think if you are moving less than your racing speed you
should have a hand in the air as a signal that you are slowing. If
you are racing at the speed you are capable of then you have the
line. Just my 2 cents worth.
On Sep 25, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
> I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come
> away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven
> says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and
> moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the
> line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me.
>
> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
>
>> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing
>> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move
>> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea.
>> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is
>> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven
>> was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing
>> speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in
>> any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed
>> to be on the line then.
>>
>> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not
>> safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not
>> be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't
>> say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote:
>>
>>> I understand the intent....
>>>
>>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group,
>>> the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone
>>> wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe
>>> pass.
>>>
>>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum?
>>>
>>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line"
>>> to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that
>>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule.
>>>
>>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini
>>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my
>>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking
>>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass.
>>>
>>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each
>>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track.
>>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply.
>>> If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also
>>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track.
>>>
>>> It all comes down to communication.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> Dallas
>>> too many toys, not enough $$$
>>>
>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-
>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM
>>> To: britbits at netzero.com
>>> Cc: 'FOT'
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
>>>
>>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to
>>> delete before reading.
>>>
>>>
>>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the
>>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed
>>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was
>>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not
>>> want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly,
>>> why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you
>>> need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you
>>> are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you
>>> are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line
>>> is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be,
>>> then you do.
>>>
>>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if
>>> you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago
>>> this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why
>>> I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group,
>>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He
>>> was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving
>>> instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the
>>> line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter
>>> in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit
>>> "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's
>>> battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they
>>> need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and
>>> wait.
>>>
>>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe
>>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up
>>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a
>>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and
>>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say,
>>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible.
>>>
>>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with
>>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed
>>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steven,
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage
>>>> events... so
>>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC
>>>> games feel
>>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they
>>>> saw "Days of
>>>> Thunder" once too often ;)
>>>>
>>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a
>>>> bad idea to
>>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show
>>>> them the
>>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> Dallas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-
>>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On
>>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM
>>>> To: FOT
>>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I
>>>> raced at
>>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding.
>>>> This meant I
>>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let
>>>> them cool so
>>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I
>>>> was in the
>>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys
>>>> what I needed
>>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine
>>>> and feeling
>>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just
>>>> about done
>>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the
>>>> first "Warm-up"
>>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I
>>>> waved him to the
>>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty
>>>> close to the
>>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON
>>>> THE DIRT at
>>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly,
>>>> threw some
>>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with
>>>> a yellow
>>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice
>>>> his lap time
>>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise
>>>> and made me
>>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my
>>>> best to get
>>>> my job done safely and get off
>>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if
>>>> it's
>>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no
>>>> prize money."
>>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of
>>>> their
>>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag
>>>> move and
>>>> you're in big trouble
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot/attachments/20080926/a5cf810d/attachment-0003.htm>
More information about the Fot
mailing list