From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 00:14:06 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:14:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27><041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Also, Don't forget the Sunbeam Tiger. And you could probably also point to all the British cars that use a variation of the Buick aluminum V8 (Rover, TR8, etc) Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:24 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections American car with British engine - Nash Healey British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra Which one do *you* want? mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 06:19:18 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:19:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/6dbebab0/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 06:38:26 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> ...and the TVR cars -----Original Message----- From: greenman62 at hotmail.com To: Mark J Bradakis ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 8:19 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg?Petrolati?Champaign,?Illinois??????? That's?not?a?leak...?My?car's?just?marking?its?territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gwizracing at cfu.net Mon Sep 1 07:27:36 2008 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:27:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen Message-ID: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) Gary Wiezorek, Remembering # 59 From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Sep 1 07:38:27 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48BBF053.1050504@pobox.com> And with regard to the Allard, Carol Shelby once said, "Where do you think I got the idea (for the Cobra)". Allard is the grandfather of all the British cars with American V8s, and since Zora Duntov worked for Allard and drove them a Lemans, it probably had a big influence on the Corvette as well. Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Sep 1 09:17:30 2008 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:17:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. Teriann fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ...and the TVR cars > > -----Original Message----- > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > Range Rover > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:31:32 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:31:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: one other American car with a British designed engine.... Ford Pinto On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/f33b84ae/attachment-0001.htm From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:34:19 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: and one cannot, of course, forget the sale to Saab by triumph of the 4cyl engine that was to go into the 99. On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/19914c01/attachment.htm From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 09:51:15 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:51:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Standard connections Message-ID: Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? ==AM== I dunno, maybe one of Reid Railton's cars...with Hudson power (1930s)? ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/1abca50f/attachment.htm From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Sep 1 09:54:10 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BC1022.9070000@141.com> German car with Triumph Herald engine - Amphicar :-D Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 1 11:01:35 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:01:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Special TR4 For Sale Message-ID: <000001c90c54$6511a090$2f34e1b0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello: I am posting this for a friend who has decided to sell his historic, race ready 1962 triumph TR 4. This car was raced by D production Regional (San Francisco) and National Champion Steve Froines who won the later title at Daytona in 1965. Specs include: 196 hp engine built by Rebello, engine dyno sheets to confirm; four speed transmission with push button overdrive; three races on engine and trans rebuild. 4.5 rear end with Detroit Locker; spare engine parts and close ratio Dolaimate Sprint transmisson; plus other miscellaneous spares; American racing Mini-Lite wheels and extra set of 5.5 wheels with Yokohama AO48 tires. Raced with CSRG, HMSA and the Monterey Historics four times, most recently at last month's event. Car is period correct, fast and a proven front-runner. $35,000/o.b.o. Contact Tide Ebding at 925-360-2350 tidetr3 at yahoo.com. Note: period and current pictures are available to interested individuals however, I will be traveling to the US Vintage GP at Watkins Glen and will not return until Sept. 17 at which time I can send them out. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/71521787/attachment.htm From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 1 15:37:39 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/e7e4461a/attachment-0001.htm From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 16:27:18 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... _____ From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/c9964b43/attachment-0001.htm From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:36:35 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 23:36:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. An I thought dust bunnies were bad!!! Ick! Greg Petrolati Chamfayette, Illiregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: spitlist at cox.net To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; greenman62 at hotmail.com; jibjib at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Joe C. From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080901/f780a470/attachment.htm From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 22:44:00 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:44:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: I was going to write about all the things the movers have packed on my numerous moves. You win. EEEEEWWWWWW! Bob 2008/9/1 Joe Curry > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. > > > > Joe C. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *Doug Mitchell > *Sent:* Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM > *To:* greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > > > When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told > the movers > > to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The > next time > > they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They > also packed the > > garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. > > > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]*On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM > *To:* Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck > driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it > was my TR3 and TR8 too. > > When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late > 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... > > >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. > > Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > ------------------------------ > > From: jibjib at att.net > To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 > > Greg, > > > > We look forward to your presence in the PNW. > > > > > > > > > > Jack > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM > *To:* fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; > don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com > *Subject:* [Fot] Fading fast... > > The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to > Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in > my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years > is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a > pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly > a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I > originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... > To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. > > I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties > can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have > it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations > until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, > I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette > sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. > > If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: > > Greg Petrolati > 929 Jackson St. > Lafayette, OR 97127 > > Of course my email address won't change > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080902/1aee981e/attachment-0001.htm From tedtsimx at bright.net Tue Sep 2 07:30:24 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:30:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paging Ernie Huesman Message-ID: <48BD3FF0.9040606@bright.net> Ernie, please give me a call when you have a chance. Thanks, Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 2 08:32:48 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:32:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen References: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> Message-ID: <01f501c90d08$c5b0d650$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wiezorek" To: "Joe Alexander" ; "Tony Drews" ; "FOT" ; "Irv Kory" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen > To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing > and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. > > Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny > side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) > > Gary Wiezorek, > Remembering # 59 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 09:11:29 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi, On the quick rack... DO IT. I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't believe that I waited this long. When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly set up Formula Fords - but I digress. Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 1 18:26:08 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:26:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "jim hearn" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 > Hi, > > On the quick rack... DO IT. > > I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't > believe that I waited this long. > > When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to > get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" > because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a > wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners > should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). > > I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year > (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much > steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly > set up Formula Fords - but I digress. > > Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is > twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too > much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and > the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. > > rml > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 10:43:54 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and > predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- > road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, > modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just > fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 > mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker > steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, > mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not > more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Hmm, different strokes for different folks. I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns _really quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars and all that. The thing with the quicker rack is that you don't approach corners "all arms and elbows". You just urge the car with the wheel and "it turns". I can rotate the car easily, if it steps out, a TINY correction gets the back where it belongs and I rarely "get behind" and spin. It is extremely drivable. With the old stock rack, turning into tight stuff (like pin turns - remember I'm an autocrosser) used to require shuffling the wheel, now I can do almost everything within the about 90 degrees either way from straight up - I never have to put tonnes of steering lock in. So, one setup may be fine for road racing and one may be fine for autocross. I'm pretty sure that my setup would be awesome for road racing, but then again, it'll be some time (if ever) before I could prove that. > Steve P. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 2 13:48:41 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:48:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: First, these guys are talking about TR4/6 which have a rack and pinion steering system, and second, you have to be pretty forgiving to consider a worm and peg system to be predictable and quick. Vague and touchy is more like it. The worm gear gets worn and notchy, the ratio is not great at the center and goes the wrong way as the wheel is turned, it's miserable to try to eliminate bump steer, and there's a lot of slop in the system. That's why no one used them after 1962 (that I can remember--not even golf carts). Your Triumph feels good to you because it's lashed down like a go- cart. Honestly, if you drove a modern race car you'd be amazed that you can get around a track safely with a TR3. All the same, lots of folks in this very organization do it, and do it well. A triumph of effort over engineering. But don't mistake that for an adequate steering system. It would be okay for an oxcart, but that's about it. On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Robert Lang wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds >> quickly and >> predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in >> fast- >> road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered >> springs, >> modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also >> tracks just >> fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between >> 55 and 65 >> mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much >> quicker >> steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require >> a firm, >> mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much >> if not >> more effect on turn in and grip as steering. > > Hmm, different strokes for different folks. > > I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns > _really > quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars > and > all that. From bswope959 at msn.com Tue Sep 2 14:08:01 2008 From: bswope959 at msn.com (Bill Swope) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:08:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Email Hold Message-ID: I will be gone for 30 days hold my Email lst Wm. (Bill) Swope dba C ME GO Racing 1030 Green Valley Rd. NW Los Ranchos, N M 87107 bswope959 at msn.com (505) 345-6235; fax (505) 345-1180 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080902/b422f002/attachment.htm From rjl6n at cstone.net Tue Sep 2 15:17:55 2008 From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: <3e3c77ba8789aaa3cc31e73465079a62.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net> > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. I used to know a someone who worked for a moving company - they lived for moments like that (ie. that was no accident!). John From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 2 17:45:47 2008 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:45:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Room available Message-ID: <006501c90d56$066ff980$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5> Lists, I just cancelled my room at the Hampton Inn Corning for Thursday 9-5 thru Sunday 9-8. So there is a room available for the asking. I do not know if they have a waiting list and if the room is automatically taken. I will be at the Glen I just do not need this room as I have made other plans. Phone for the Hampton is 607-936-3344. Stop by and visit with us at the WPTA Hospitality Tent in the Triumph Paddock. Jerry Van Vlack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080902/2f510128/attachment.htm From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Thu Sep 4 04:11:56 2008 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 03:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR250 Distributor Message-ID: <174566.28323.qm@web51808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, ???? Does any one have a??TR250 Distributor that?they might want to sell? ?Regards Jim Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080904/2a5dc98b/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 4 05:58:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:58:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Launch Time Message-ID: <4362ae390809040458q2f328f1dy678d01ab88194199@mail.gmail.com> T-Minus 1 hour till the GT6 launches for the Glen. I can't wait. She's loaded down with all my kit, boy I need to buy some smaller stuff. :) See everyone on site late today. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080904/29822f91/attachment.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 4 21:20:27 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:20:27 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NW FOT again Message-ID: <090520080320.26795.48C0A57A00097975000068AB2200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> To those NW FOT who are currently email enabled: My potential buyer, T A Moser, has advised that he will be partners with a guy named Tim Trolia in the purchase of my TR4. Has anyone heard of this guy? I did receive a deposit today from him, so maybe this is going to happen. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080905/7917398d/attachment.htm From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fri Sep 5 08:42:12 2008 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:42:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen Message-ID: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 08:55:44 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:55:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere > on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle > cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken > cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If > anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, > please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph > paddock. > > Thanks, > Jason Sukey > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 5 08:48:33 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:48:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74D5D164@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Have him stop at any good bicycle shop along the way and take his broken cable (and ends) in with him. Make sure it's the sort of place where they have a bike tech on site who actually fixes the bikes. They can make up a cable which will get him where he's going - it'll cost something like $10. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:42 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From zoboherald at aol.com Fri Sep 5 08:59:32 2008 From: zoboherald at aol.com (Andrew Mace) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:59:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen ==AM== I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 10:44:54 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu><006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <008401c90f76$ba05f540$0300a8c0@Desktop> You never know what Ted may have with him Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Mace" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig > > Jason > send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen > > ==AM== > I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > You are subscribed as wensley_tr at comcast.net > > http://www.team.net/archive From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 5 16:54:08 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] WG Friday times Message-ID: Here are some times from Today's qualifying and practice at The Glen. Sam Halkias TR6 2:14.643 Tom Kreger TR6 2;18.429 Bill Warner TR8 2:18.549 Joe Boruch TR3 2:22.885 Jim Stouffer TR6 2:24.550 Tony Garmey TR250K 2:24.989 Bill Warner TR6 2:25.877 Jack Madison TR6 2:31.977 Henry Frye TR4 2:28.781 Jeff Snook TR3 2:28.349 Tony Drews TR4 2:31.553 There are a lot of others that I left out but for a complete listing of all of our guys racing you can go to the SVRA website. I wish I was there but I don't get my motor back from the machine shop until Monday; just a touch too late! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080905/1d2e42d4/attachment.htm From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 6 02:52:59 2008 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:52:59 +1000 Subject: [Fot] LIST SERVER TEST Message-ID: List Server Test. Do not Respond. Simply delete. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 WORKS _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/cc8a6a24/attachment.htm From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 13:31:35 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/5fecb968/attachment.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Sep 6 14:06:01 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:06:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/49b95e99/attachment.htm From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:01:34 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:01:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Cool Can you add any more color rob ----- Original Message ----- From: fasttrs To: fot at autox.team.net ; 'Sam Halkias' Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/c8ddcee7/attachment.htm From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:54:40 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:54:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Message-ID: Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/33fe72ce/attachment.htm From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 6 17:08:34 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:08:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 17:20:46 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:20:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification Message-ID: <2C30CCA7C64B472A8303DBD01206844B@hal9000> I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/0a7dfdfb/attachment.htm From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 17:43:51 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Steve, You can go to the SVRA website, in the event info pull down menu, click on the US vintage Grand Prix. In yellow you will find the "Live" link. They also have a link to the timed sessions. I hope your year is going better than mine. I have spent tons of money on broken motors. Mike _____ From: Gt6steve at aol.com [mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:06 PM To: fasttrs at mindspring.com; fot at autox.team.net; atr6racer at hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/ef37b1c4/attachment-0001.htm From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 6 18:02:41 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:02:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <40AD3853C1EF41F89CABDE4567D6CAE5@richardiipc> Fellow FoT, I could not make Watkins's Glen this weekend. It's 8:00 Saturday night and I can feel my fellow Friends of Triumph toasting Uncle Jack. I, too, toast a friend, silently and respectfully in my own way. Jack did an excellent job with the life he was given. Those few who may do as well with their lives will also have won that First Overall; a trophy the rest of us can only dream about. Richard Taylor Atlanta From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:24:03 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5292298A-FAAD-4158-8548-B84F8B25AB14@bnj.com> Yup. tony was picking daisies on the last couple of laps so I caught up to him, but catching tony and passing tony are two very, very different things. Pretty cool getting a 2222 in Peyote, #222 On Sep 6, 2008, at 2:31 PM, fasttrs wrote: > I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote > ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > Mike Munson > Bowling Green, KY > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/615b6041/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:35:48 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing and Uncle Jack. Peyote is running in typically unbelievable form, pissing off people with much nicer cars as usual. Tony and I ran away from all the other cars in group four pretty convincingly. I couldn't see anyone in my mirrors for the last three laps. Lot of grumpy loti, listers, corvettes, etc. tonight. What fun. I had to open the hood and show some of the racers that it's just a TR3. On Sep 6, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... > I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? > I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the > man. > I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how > I do it. > > All the best to you, all of you! > Bobby Whitehead > #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > > Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/6bcae381/attachment.htm From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 19:41:39 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 19:41:39 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg advance up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080906/a306fdf1/attachment.htm From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 20:47:31 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:47:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C340C3.9080003@bradakis.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice > cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice > drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing > and Uncle Jack. I had meant to stop and get some single malt on the way home, didn't happen. I did, however, go out to the garage and raise a vodka martini to the memory of Uncle Jack and all things Triumph. I really wish I was there and not here. mjb. From emanteno at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 21:24:56 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:24:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <090720080324.28618.48C349880008FAD400006FCA2200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "fasttrs" > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away > from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. Irv From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 21:45:05 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:45:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> References: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Message-ID: <48C34E41.4070207@bradakis.com> rob wrote: > Cool Can you add any more color rob Peyote is silver. The 250K is blue. Sorry, couldn't resist! mjb. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:26:09 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:26:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/5dddb04d/attachment.htm From igofaster at charter.net Sun Sep 7 13:35:28 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:39:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:39:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:21 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:46:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios Message-ID: I keep a 3.65 for the long tracks and a 3.89 for the short ones. At Cal Speedway or Willow I too run out of revs (7800) hence the gearing. I can't imagine you'll ever require a 3.27. In a message dated 9/7/2008 12:36:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, igofaster at charter.net writes: Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/c364def4/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:47 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:46:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oops, correction... In-Reply-To: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CADF39994C547C-1520-8C0@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Group 3 race coming up, I have TRs on my mind... Glen -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: Gt6steve at aol.com; FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at att.net Sun Sep 7 13:54:54 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:54:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Message-ID: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/180dd7f6/attachment.htm From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 14:58:23 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll probably talk to him today or tomorrow and ask him if he wants to. Mike _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/85c04f0b/attachment-0001.htm From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 18:36:06 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:36:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: I guess by now most of you know Smokin' Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/22ad635d/attachment.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 18:43:44 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:43:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: Well, Mike has my second so I should put it out to the entire list. I will happily second Sam for the list and look forward to his inputs...Steve In a message dated 9/7/2008 5:37:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/f72a45a4/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 7 19:37:28 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:37:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Message-ID: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080907/c2939808/attachment.htm From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Sep 7 22:50:04 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: Just got home after racing at Portland this weekend. It was my wife Patty's turn to drive the Spitfire, and she finished third out of seven in class. Saturday evening, we were sitting with old friends and talking racing and racing people. It was later than 8PM Eastern, as we were still racing that early, but we did talk about and toast Uncle Jack. I only knew him through the FOT, but sure came to admire and appreciate his character, dedication to the sport and his helping others. Thanks Uncle Jack and thanks to all of you!! What a great group. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bobby Whitehead Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:09 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: fot-request at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 00:45:17 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:45:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/4947f29e/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 693 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/4947f29e/attachment.eml From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 04:22:18 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:22:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080322j20dd3711h360c60e54a376157@mail.gmail.com> I will put all the photos up this morning in raw format, can sort later. Video. I will use youtube, but will try and find a way to to get some downloads out. More to follow. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/4200e9af/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 8 04:54:31 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:54:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <4543665B.2ECA33E0.00159EE9@cs.com> was that cool, or what! watkins glen rocks! on the road to newfoundland Joe A > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: "fasttrs" >> I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. >> >> It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away >> from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. >> >> Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > >Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. > >Irv >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 8 05:02:30 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 4:02:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias In-Reply-To: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080908070230.7NUU3.174262.imail@fed1rmwml41> Fast car, fast driver and nice man, glad to second this nomination. ---- fpspitfire at comcast.net wrote: ============= I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:35:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/67e2696c/attachment-0001.htm From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:37:27 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> BTW, NIKON was my little point and shoot camera which I used on the run. Fri-Sun was shot with the Canon DSLR camera. If you want to download the full res, use the down arrow at the bottom on the page. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/e5a02939/attachment.htm From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 09:52:28 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:52:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809080852l7856b25fvcb2d5c0745b8c4de@mail.gmail.com> That seems appropriate -- Tony just rebuilt Peypte's engine if I undestood Bil correctly. Glad both cars made it there and performed well. 2008/9/6 fasttrs > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran > away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > > > Mike Munson > > Bowling Green, KY > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/9b53d0e5/attachment.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 12:12:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:12:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: <090820081812.23339.48C56B030001690600005B2B2207020653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Just got home from The Glen. Awesome weekend. There were some mechanical issues in the all TRiumph race, but no skimishes that I am aware of. I think Dick Stockton (TR4) may have lost an engine, and the white #7 TR6 from the northwest (sorry, don't know the name, just the car) dumped all of his coolant, most of which was dropped at pit in and the pit lane. Sam Halkias was as fast as I expected. Tony Garmey was amazing in the TR250. Did I say it was an awesome weekend? Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/8e23c04b/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 14:10:28 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> Message-ID: <6573.69373.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim: Are the advance numbers you are speaking of in addition to the static advance you already have in the motor? If so, the two will add up, and that 33 degree number would scare me. If your static timing is 12 degrees BTDC and you add 33 degrees you are in a land few ever venture with TR motors. I don't like more then 30-32 degrees total advance in any TRactor motor. MG's can handle more, but not TR's. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Jim Gray wrote: From: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification To: "'rob'" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> Cc: "Friends of triumph" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 8:41 PM I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm? it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg? advance? up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try? try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/7bdeef5b/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 15:08:22 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out of Florida last January and missed our February driving school because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from Bill about himself. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/89c2dfbf/attachment.htm From pcdelux at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:03 2008 From: pcdelux at worldnet.att.net (Bill DeWar) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:41:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <004601c911fb$9bdfd1d0$c7544c0c@user90890nvpgh> Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebrities in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and running awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtown celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsports tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event. Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superb until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but he kept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWar Triumph Rescue -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/6a24f264/attachment.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:15 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:41:15 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820082141.3784.48C59BFB0006232E00000EC82200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Second. Welcome, Sam, and thanks for the show on Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/f2e8d8c6/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 690 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/f2e8d8c6/attachment.eml From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 16:04:08 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:04:08 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebritiesin attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and runningawesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtowncelebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsportstents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic MotorsportsPub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event.Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superbuntil #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy WilliamsGeorge Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure,Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but hekept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWarTriumph Rescue ____________________________________________________________ Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijlzUCSFkZzRegbTBXIJJv3WcNcx57KqUIFrQTHbFd9HLjSfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/ddc9b31c/attachment-0001.htm From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 16:22:58 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:22:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com><01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank You A. a grate fix for the non atendies. Just one ?? Were and when is next years Party rob ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos Craig Hope you had fun ---- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/22bfa564/attachment.htm From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Mon Sep 8 16:34:52 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:34:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1659 - Release Date: 9/8/2008 7:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/6734ef7e/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 17:40:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:40:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> What a hoot! I had a great time. Peyote stayed together, didn't get hit by anyone and didn't hit anyone. As usual a fine collection of great FOT people, though I missed all the folks that didn't make it. SVRA put me in group four, which made for a bit of trepidation--I really wasn't interested in getting run over by a Corvette again--or a Lister or something else massive. My times didn't seem all that hot, I felt like I was leaving a second or so in too many corners. I think my driving kind of sucked. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought I was turning something less than 2:20 last time I was here, but we all know what my memory is like. Still, Peyote ran flawlessly all week, even though it's driver might have let it down a little. I enjoyed the re-enactment ride as usual, especially with all the triumphs in town. the organizers decided Peyote wasn't a Triumph and didn't let me run with them, but no matter--a fun ride. Only problem was ground clearance. I left one of my swaybar rod mounts somewhere-- probably on the railroad tracks. We had to cobble one up at the track. Garmey didn't leave me with much hope for a win in group four. He disappeared in the qualifying race while I was trying to get by a couple of corvettes and a Lotus 15. I missed a shift on the start and wound up in tenth or so at the first corner. Managed to get up to fourth pretty quickly, and finally there was only one corvette in front of me but no TR250K to be seen. I got past the 'vette and started putting in some clean laps and finally spotted Garmey, who was picking daisies or writing his autobiography--cruising around saving the car. When I got close enough to be in his mirrors he started spooling up again, and I got some bad breaks in traffic, but I was reasonably close at the end. The timesheets showed the real story though--he had nearly a second on my best lap. If he wasn't snoozing I never would have seen him. Sunday's race I got a good start and chased tony hard for a little while, but he steadily pulled away and I finally lost contact. i decided to save the car and cruised until I saw cars in my mirrors, then I picked it back up and finished second. The track is fun, but I would have liked having someone to dice with. Unfortunately the closest car was a vette and I don't have a great history with those at Watkins Glen, so I decided not to wait for him. Finished second. The Triumph race was right after Group 4, so Tony and I pulled into the entry for the hot pits and Darrell refueled us. I got to my spot (about sixth or seventh I think) at the three minute mark. I got a decent start but the pack going into turn one was five across, mostly snarling TR6's with Dick Stockton's TR4 and Garmey in the TR250K in the mix. I held back a little but got a good run up to the bus stop and stayed in position despite a lot of TR4's and 3's on my ass. Going into the boot I saw Dick's TR4 going back through the pack and looked forward to dicing with him. I moved up behind him just as his engine went BANG and oiled my front wheels nicely. I swung out past him and almost spun, then nearly lost it again in the turn after the boot, tip- toed around for a lap with Henry Frye, George Wright and Randy Williams all threatening to pass. Then I finally got the front end working again and pulled out some daylight. By this time I had lost contact with the TR6 group, and couldn't see much possibility of catching them, so I backed off a little bit and concentrated on driving all the turns cleanly. A lap or so later there was a loud bang from the rear end when I touched the brakes entering turn two and the car lurched a bit. It seemed okay, though it seemed a bit loose. I thought the tires might be going away, so I pressed on. I could see some yellow TR4's behind me when I got to the end of the straights, but there were only two laps to go, so I didn't press too hard. Good thing. It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. Had a great time. Thanks to everyone, great seeing you all. Thanks to SVRA for a great event, kudos to Tim Suddard both for Grassroots' participation in the FOT shenanigans and for getting his TR3 cranking so well. He beat Jeff Snook, and we all know that ain't easy. Congrats to Tony for winning the Kastner Cup, and to Larry Young for winning the Bill Ames Memorial Trophy. And Congrats to all of us for belonging to an organization so chock full of great people. Paraphrasing Groucho, I generally wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me, but FOT is the exception. Disappointing not to get to play with Joe Boruch or Dick Stockton. I think we would have had fun. Joe's TR3 is very reminiscent of my NASCAR TR3, except it's prettier and probably a lot more legal. Joe was turning 2:24's the first qualifying session, I suspect he would have had a lot to show Peyote. The On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Joe Boruch wrote: > I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to > SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have > participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we > decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent > hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending > sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who > offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like > this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and > most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on > repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: > Listers, > > Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all > other TR celebrities > in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and > sounding and running > awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam > packed downtown > celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA > gang and Classic Motorsports > tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer. > (Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports > Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) > They worked hard all event. > Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick > Stockton's TR4 running superb > until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running > great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams > George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. > The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine > failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, > Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil > leaks all weekend but he > kept at it. > Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle > Jack . > > Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! > > Bill DeWar > Triumph Rescue Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/ed96a2b0/attachment-0001.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:21:33 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:21:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Wedges In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just got home this evening. I got lots of pictures of the Group 44 TR8 and Peter Bukowski's TR8 as well as Bill Emery's TR7. Got some video of the 44 car running on Friday when it was in the pits. Unfortunately the engine seized while qualifying, ending the weekend. Too bad because Brian Redman was supposed to drive it in the TRiumph feature. Bob Tullius was supposed to come, but was unable to fly in due to all the hurricanes coming and going. Peter's car worked great all weekend and he was pleased with it's performance. The new engine was just being broken in and Peter didn't want to push it too much. I also got a lot of video including the entire Triumph feature from turn 1. Will try to get it together somehow to show. It is on tape right now so have to burn it to disk first. A terrific weekend with many thanks to Joe and Jan Alexander for all the work they put into the weekend as well as to any who worked on the great T-shirts including Ted handling all the logistics....had a lot of comments from many asking about the t-shirts. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/5cda64fd/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> Message-ID: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/84d0ee25/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 19:40:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 20:40:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower > eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in > single shear because it was binding. > > We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a > coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race > and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have > had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool > considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, > four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to > give Sam any trouble. > > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > Paul > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/c0b4ea55/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:52:13 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:52:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/d19dc3c1/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/bmp Size: 2359350 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/d19dc3c1/attachment-0001.bin From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Sep 8 20:15:06 2008 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Was Sam driving his SCCA car? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Babcock To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit.? As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up.?http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 ? On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: ?It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding.?? ? We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube).? I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble.? ? What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't? go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then?when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. ? ? Paul ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/a547dfc3/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 20:49:50 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/8c34a404/attachment.htm From ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com Thu Sep 4 17:20:02 2008 From: ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com (Ralph Steinberg) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 19:20:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VRG Historics at Thunderbolt! Message-ID: <002301c90ee4$c2652270$472f6750$@com> Ok, The Glen is pretty much in the bag by now and you either survived it or you didn't but either way I have a race for you. 3 days of track time, so plenty of time to sort out whatever you broke at the Glen or to just have fun. A brand new track, easy to get to from anywhere and an event run by a club and event chair that know how to put on a race! Mark Palmer and the VRG, yes the same people that put on the races at New Hampshire, PVGPA BeaveRun, Turkey Bowl, the Glen in October. are running an event at the new track in Millville NJ. September 19,20, 21 We will be having vintage racing on the Lightning course, a car show, a vintage war birds fly in, and for those who still feel the need to do something else SCCA will be running on the Thunderbolt track. A great party is planned at the air museum and Mark probably has other things up his sleeve. Come out and join us we will accept any approved racing Triumph, regardless of year, so in other words TR2 through TR8 plus Spitfire, and GT6. Obviously your car must meet the VRG safety standards but we have room and classes for cars that may not normally meet all VRG eligibility rules. (note I said normal eligibility rules not safety) for more info please contact Mark Palmer his contact info and more info on the event is available at www.vrgonline.org Ralph Steinberg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080904/ca3ca285/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 21:51:41 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:51:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080909035159.CA4BD1878D3@autox.team.net> I'll second! The Texas (and Oklahoma) bunch is a great group of people, good to add one. - Tony At 04:08 PM 9/8/2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our >loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out >of Florida last January and missed our February driving school >because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished >the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his >required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. >May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from >Bill about himself. >Thanks - Ed - >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:05:07 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:05:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Message-ID: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D At 02:35 PM 9/7/2008, Bobby Whitehead wrote: >Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was >test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned >my lesson by now... >With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was >shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well >into turn 1A... lots of top end... >Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm >redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my >foot out of it. >Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I >should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of >horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... >If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked >diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in >place or should I remove them? >Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an >overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? > >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:10:45 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:10:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041049.8839F18798B@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/4de3f3b1/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:18:43 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:18:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/618e6ad9/attachment.htm From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 23:25:47 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:25:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Any thoughts on coating a metal gas tank? Message-ID: <000201c9123c$8e799440$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know what is best to coat a metal gas tank with the new blends of gasoline especially in California? Thanks for any thoughts. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3068 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080908/fe39c625/attachment.bin From malaboge at aol.com Tue Sep 9 00:26:40 2008 From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:26:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: GT6 carb issues In-Reply-To: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE05C26B0CC47-EEC-26BA@webmail-ne02.sysops.aol.com> Gas guzzlin?friends, One of the big issues on many cars that I have found is a fuel system that just doesn't deliver when really needed.? A fuel pressure gauge that reads as close to the carbs as possible will quickly tell the story.? Too many motors are running lean at sustained RPM's.? Every motor that I've dynoed has been overjetted with the RB needles. I'm here at sea level,?and the RB's have way too high a F/A ratio on my motors.? When in doubt (better rich than lean) I've used them until I could actually tune the motor and then it always put out more poop with leaner needles (currently running in the 190 HP range). You say that the float level is at 3/16.? If that is a static measured distance ala factory style measured settings, my limited experience has been that NO static float level is relevant to real world float levels.? In situ inspection of float levels in the jet is the only relevant setting.Basically run the fuel level as high in the jet as is possible without "slosh" out of the jets in corners.? This will take some tuning on your part, but is easy to do?to make both fuel levels the same in each carb.? The other issue is foaming of the fuel and once again leaning out.? Use a 45 DCOE soft mount to mount the SU's to help alleviate this. HS-6's are great carbs and can deliver way more than your 2 liter motor should require Feelin fuelish here ... ????????????????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/ddadcf6b/attachment.htm From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:46:04 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:46:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> References: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I run 35 total advance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:19 PM, "Tony Drews" wrote: > As I recall, I've got about 12 degrees at "idle" (a bit over 1000 > rpm), straight line "curve" to 32 degrees at 3000, then slightly > increasing advance as the RPM's increase from there. I think it's > 34 degrees at 6k. Not that far off of your settings. > > - Tony D > > At 05:54 PM 9/6/2008, Jim Gray wrote: >> Greetings all, >> I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 >> distributors out of the Nederlands. >> It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. >> The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 >> degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 >> there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the >> throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to >> 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of >> Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed >> the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I >> know I still have some jetting to get through >> but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the >> distributor went in. >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> Jim Gray >> RMVR # 102 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/6db2fb89/attachment.htm From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:48:35 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:48:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I assume it was--pretty fast Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 7:15 PM, "Jay Creel" wrote: > Was Sam driving his SCCA car? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Paul MacDonald > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next > lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back > after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. > > As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they > waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was > second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be > talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). >> >> I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 >> race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would >> have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty >> cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for >> fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN >> seconds to give Sam any trouble. >> >> What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He >> didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of >> the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the >> results noticed that one car was missing. >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/d537e85e/attachment-0001.htm From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 9 08:01:04 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 08:06:44 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I meant "on the podium" and in the winner's circle awards cerimony. It looked like the number 3 finisher, Jim Stouffer wasn't recognized as such and the three top cars instead included the 44 car of Bill Warner which finished fourth. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: September 9, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Bill Babcock; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:22:15 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:22:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I could get used to this in a hurry! Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his area as well. He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and wheels around quite well. We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at the races. Do I hear a second? Henry Frye #04 TR4 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:31:57 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:31:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <003a01c91291$32448900$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From dtalbott at archrepro.com Tue Sep 9 09:31:19 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:31:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <000901c91291$1c000110$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Hey, he's an old ski racer to boot. I'll gladly second. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:38:21 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:38:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:54:08 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:54:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <090920081554.5592.48C69C200003BB9C000015D82207021553970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Henry Frye" > Do I hear a second? Second. Tim's a good guy, and belongs here. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/16ad6e3b/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 09:55:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:55:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some > more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for > the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily > newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice > after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ > finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track > got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a > brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, > no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the > weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has > not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to > take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big > contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do > that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us > Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/4baaf7d7/attachment-0001.htm From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 11:18:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:18:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just for Bill Tobin! Message-ID: <4362ae390809091018w281f6eaawc5c75d98b5c7acff@mail.gmail.com> Hey Bill, http://temp.justdrive.ca/P1010334.jpg :) A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/2db9c21a/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 9 12:47:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:47:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Glen Cup presentation Message-ID: <20080909144745.0LTPV.189291.imail@fed1rmwml40> I would appreciate any photos that might be out there on the cup presentation at the Glen last Sunday for use on my web site.. I've got video but no pix. Thanks. -- Never be beaten by equipment From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 9 13:42:57 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:42:57 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ?4-5-6? distributor is only for road cars. Several guys over here did use it in races but they all failed .the last one I know from was the last week end. It was replaced by a lumenition and the car ran again. Better you use a simple Pertronix. Cheers Chris ? who has a broken (crank, piston, block, rod) Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jim Gray Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. September 2008 00:55 An: Friends of triumph Betreff: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/3a2d8744/attachment.htm From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 9 15:16:19 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:16:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Fw: [CTRiumph.com] TR6 for sale Message-ID: <20080909.171619.13349.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> This came across on the Connecticut Triumph list. Joe(B) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- This ad is in the Manchester Reminder Community Newspaper.Sept 9, 2008 Triumph TR6 1970 wire wheels, overdrive, many new parts, $3,000, call for details 860-454-7130 FYI, NFI, FredLooking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar For Current Events Calendar visit the CTRiumph WEBPAGE click here: http://www.CTRiumph.com Shortcut to CTRiumph eGroup Home Page click here: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/CTRIUMPH Continue the Legend......... Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Give BackYahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! ToolbarGet it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! GroupsStart a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijmSpS42ziSEsO7yIsx6lUbMJ7XM7xa6K9WwwUmjTPyQX9LoG/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/fbeb3844/attachment.htm From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 9 16:01:22 2008 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, ? I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group.? I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. ? Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area,?and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history.? Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. ? I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see.? But what a great event!? I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up.? The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park.? All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. ? Thumbs Up. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/7e3886b9/attachment-0001.htm From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 16:04:09 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:04:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > > > > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure > of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe > Alexander. > > > > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared > GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of > your Triumph. > > > > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was > spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But > what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed > up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to > the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I > enjoyed them all. > > > > Thumbs Up. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/077084ab/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 16:06:11 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:06:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Pictures Message-ID: Enjoy......caution heavy Wedge content. http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/Watkins%20Glen%202008/ Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1416 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/1d683aee/attachment.bin From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 9 16:13:43 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:13:43 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 small mouth vintage race car for sale Message-ID: <200809091613274.SM01788@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, I bought this car?eight years ago and have finally reached the conclusion that I'm not going to get the time to finish building it let alone get the time to race it. This car was originally turned into a vintage race car in the early 80's and raced with VARA on the west coast.? The previous owner stopped racing it around 1996 to do some frame modifications to it.? He pulled the body from the frame and never got any farther than that.? Joe Alexander trailered the car from L.A. to Dallas for me in 2000.? When I asked the PO what I needed to do to get the car running he told me to bolt the body back onto the frame, hook up the wires, add oil and gas and go racing.? Taking the advice from members of the FOT they suggested that I at least pull the pan and check out the main and rod bearings.? So I did and that led to me finding that the oil pump shaft had sheared and gauled the crank.? Rather than go racing I ended up tearing everything down for a rebuild. Fast forward to 2008 and my wife and I are moving from Arkansas to Kentucky and?I just don't have the time, room or energy to deal with putting the car back together.? I came to the conclusion I "might" be able to give it some attention around 2017 :( This car was a rust free california car that was turned into a vintage racer.? It wouldn't take that much work to convert it back to a street car if desired.? I have a LOT of parts to go along with the car.? I have most of what it takes to convert it to a street car and I also have most of what it takes to complete it as a vintage race car.? If interested contact me for specifics. Thanks, Brad 870-329-1335 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/80448c57/attachment.htm From westerneagleracing at att.net Tue Sep 9 17:01:09 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:01:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get a chance. Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the engine rebuild is not going well. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" : -------------- A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr Amici, I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. Thumbs Up. Steve _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/4e5218e7/attachment.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 9 17:21:49 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:21:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> What an event! The downtown race re-enactment and the spectacular variety of Triumph cars both in the paddock and in the All Triumph race highlighted the weekend for me. I too had a oily experience but mine was on Thursday. First the oil warning light sender began spraying my leg bringing me in early and then in the Triumph practice I lost an oil cooler line connection (due to a bad choice of hose clamps on my part). The resulting smoke had spectators expecting a blown engine but the accumulator saved the day. Among other things this problem allowed me to meet some of the racing legends like Ed Diehl, Hardy Prentice and Tony Adamowicz. These guys and the rest of the Triumph crews were great to talk to, helpful and just an all around treat to have around the paddock. Henry said it well...... > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this ailment. Oh yeah, the track was fast, fun and challenging. Television does not do it justice. Driving Watkins Glen is awesome. We arrived home a 5 PM central time after an uneventful 26 hour jaunt home. The 4 hours Sunday night, and gaining the central time hour made all the difference. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Sep 9 17:32:47 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:32:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <20080909.173248.3876.8.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I'll support that nomination. Can't have too many GT-6s. Bill 70 GT-6+ ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mDcGeacbWbWKLIotKkhH53eQPBRgm4hEFO3mLSJGb8fdMQS/ From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 17:43:30 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:43:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I'll see what I have when I get home--I'm out paddlig my standup Board right now Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:01 PM, "westerneagleracing at att.net" wrote: > I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from > York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get > a chance. > > Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 > crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the > engine rebuild is not going well. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" > : -------------- > > A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. > > A. > > 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the > pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also > introduced him to Joe Alexander. > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race > prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and > tell us about of your Triumph. > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend > as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely > get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the > Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was > Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All > had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. > Thumbs Up. > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/9a79567c/attachment.htm From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 9 19:35:33 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions.? It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic.? Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well.? I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock.? On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/0fe92f8f/attachment.htm From quicktr4 at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 22:50:31 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080909/804afc7a/attachment-0001.htm From RustyTR4 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 04:48:38 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:48:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: I would also like to Welcome Ed into our ranks, I have know him for a long time now, and he is a past president of the Central Pennsylvania Triumph Club. Matt.. Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/f0b847f3/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 07:58:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:58:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/4c82b69b/attachment.htm From gasket.works at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 08:13:35 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <002301c9134f$6a16e800$1502a8c0@Belkin> I'm in. I'll bring two cars two drivers. m www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/8a2dc718/attachment-0001.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 10 08:17:52 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:17:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: In a message dated 09/10/2008 8:59:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > Yeah...often the same with May and September events at ROAD AMERICA. You should bring mufflers, mittens, babushkas, galoshes and all that stuff...just in case. Could be 80 degrees...could be 30 degrees. We'll be there the week end after next for VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. But as a matter of fact, usually we get gorgeous Indian Summer weather. You all should come. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/4fd04acc/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 08:28:50 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:28:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO Message-ID: <20080910143208.EPRE774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Certainly a testament to the safety of modern race cars! You can see the driver WALKING to the ambulance in the 20th pix down. >http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f68/crash-mid-ohio-scca-t2-nissan-61500/ > From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 08:49:01 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:49:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: Hey! That's in my new back yard! If you need any help in the lobbying effort... let me know! Greg Greg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: quicktr4 at comcast.net To: Billb at bnj.com; henry at henryfrye.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/d17957d8/attachment.htm From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:36:09 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:36:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/d3565383/attachment-0001.htm From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 09:47:16 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:47:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: If we decide on Portland, or any other west coast track for that matter I too will help out as much as I can. I ran in the CRC this year for the first time. My first SOVREN event and I had a great time. HMSA won't let me run, but SOVREN had no problems with my car. Tons of track time, but enough free time to check out the 700+ British cars and the swap meet. The event was very low key and the driving was very clean. They decided to eliminate the night time drags this weekend, so that added a lot more paved pit area. There was plenty of open pit space, so adding 30-40 Triumphs shouldn't be a problem IMHO. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:59 AM To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV . Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/67c0d825/attachment.htm From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:53:31 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100853q26684110ha94548a0f49fa504@mail.gmail.com> I got to examine this car in Seattle at a track day once. Saw it on the track first and did not know what it was. Saw it in the pits and took a look. Was blown away when I saw it was a TR6 engine. What really was impressive is that, as I recall, it has a belly pan giving it good airflow underneath. Now that Tony Garmey has won the Kastner Cup, I hope he will join in some of our FOT discussions. He is a member of FOT is he not? If not that is a nomination needing to be made -- and Bill Hart also. He owns that car and I think he drove a Tr powered Lister in the event. 2008/9/10 Shane Ingate > Henry Frye wrote: > > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > > his chances! > > Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K > and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than > Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own > right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of > god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. > > From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. > I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, > and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame > as does Dave Wingett. > > I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have > seen > does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the > aerodynamics > of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the > steel/plastic of > the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and > track > as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, > and thus > more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the > Kastner-Brophy > TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front > suspension of > the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top > of > the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear > end, > but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better > than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. > > In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: > 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; > 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; > 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. > > Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt > to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. > > Shane Ingate > > ------------------------------ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn > Now > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/5e63c367/attachment-0001.htm From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:57:18 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:57:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close ration gears I got from BFE. Chuck The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/502ebbd8/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 10:03:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:03:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15A98911-1694-427A-ACD7-3CB750264E78@bnj.com> Tony owns Horizon racing in Apple Valley, which is a couple of exits east of Pacific Raceways. I've added him to this email. On Sep 10, 2008, at 8:57 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next > year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am > thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close > ration gears I got from BFE. > > Chuck > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/ce62a498/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 10:21:19 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:21:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Followup on that Z-car crash Message-ID: <20080910162122.XUHS6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Here is the in-car video and the drivers write-up of what happened >More pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffdegrieck/MidOhioSept2008 >In-car video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvdaMMrmkF8 > > >Hey all, here are the pics of my crash at mid-o >this wknd. Data said I was going about 95mph >when I went off the back straight before 7. Some >kind of brake failure. Had brakes for a split >second then nothing. Slowed from 130 down to 95. >Someone said I flipped about 9 times. >Cartwheeled over the gravel trap and catapulted over >the tire barrier and then over/through a 18 foot >fence and ended up in the spectator area. >Officials said they have never seen a car go >that far out or seen a crash like that at >mid-ohio. I?m completely fine though, just a >small bump on head. Can't say the same about the >Z. Thanks to everyone out there that helped me >out especially cat killer, ralphy and ed. > >Yes, i had a hans on. That's what probably gave >me the bruise on my forehead. Hans stopped my >helmet but my head smashed into the inside of my >helmet. I had a racetech seat with wings and >head bolsters. Did not have a net on the right. >Had a 5 point harness (2 groin belts combine >into one buckle). Car never really had a hard >impact. Just kept on doing cartwheels over a >long distance dissipating the energy. Looking at >the in car video looks like instinct took over >and i tried turning at the end of the straight >so i started flipping almost before i left the concrete. Should of >gone off straight into china beach and hopefully >had the gravel slow me down b/f hitting tire >wall. Thing that bothers me the most is not >knowing what happened to the brakes. Childs is >conducting a csi investigation. My data showed a >1.2 G slowdown at the 400 mark just like always >but only for a split second. Pedal felt good. >Then my G's gradually dropped to 0. I remember >lifting and pushing in the pedal again and the >data showed my G's came back up to .7 then >quickly dropped back down to 0 before i turned >the car and flipped. I don't ever remember the pedal just hitting the floor. >Brake fluid reservoir was still filled after the >crash. Looking at the in car video, the car >really shimmied at initial braking, almost >looking like the rear brakes were working but >not the front. Only evidence we have so far is >on the front left wheel, the rotor had a weird >discoloration and was completely scoured and gouged as if >the caliper was stuck. I don't see how this >happend though b/f the crash though b/c the car >was pretty dead on straight, not drifting to the >left as you would expect so maybe it somehow got >scoured after the crash. Car does have ABS but I >don't think it ever activated. Braking was >totally fine going down the keyhole just prior. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 11:06:33 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:06:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave, There should be a recall on that car; the airbags did not deploy. ;) Cheers, Shane _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/f5898035/attachment.htm From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 11:30:41 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation packages. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mqDcMS7NUuCMdn3yJjqrgC8DCyDQdTNirvLbGHR9yxoPFzU/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/a758cb35/attachment.htm From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 12:40:40 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/ff4bc3b3/attachment.htm From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 15:20:56 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:20:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No. It was older than that, mid '80s? Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nKHL1QGUohpd0fF0Xn8K9a9nqIBdCIUEMuMqUWBDdxRAEfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/03f97775/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:46:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine top end. On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? > No. It was older than that, mid '80s? > Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/962539c9/attachment.htm From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:13 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/07114753/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 16:01:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/b662abf2/attachment-0001.htm From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 10 16:45:41 2008 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:45:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors and Wilwood calipers. Allen On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. > First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's > a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 > HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an > aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have > a fine top end. > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >> Bill >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >> packages! >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Jody & Allen Washatko W51 N664 Highland Drive Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/765a50d0/attachment.htm From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 17:04:13 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/  Next Year ? Message-ID: <380-22008931023413643@M2W044.mail2web.com> thanks to all who participated at the GLEN. it would be great, if all who attended and entered, thrEw out a paragraph on their impressions and experiences. i left well pleased with the outcomes on all fronts. except that pesky valve stuck permanentley in the crown of MIKE BELFER'S piston. (sorry, STEVE) now jan & i are on the atlantic ocean and arriving in NEWFOUNDLAND shortly. UNCLE JACK will be running the TARGA NEWFOUNDLAND in spirit with the outright winner of the 2007 TARGA. Yes, the car will have the UNCLE JACK decal on it. 1969 BMW 2002 I think he will be pleased. jan & joe....five hours from St. John, NL Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net, andre at gt6.ca, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 17:47:44 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:47:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C85CA0.8040603@verizon.net> I keep thinking back many moons ago, about 1977. I saw the TR250K for sale at a swap meet at Los Alamitos (horse) Racetrack for something like $7500. Thing is, I actually had that much in the bank. I also remember passing on some early '60s Ferraris in the $4-5K range. Oh well, that's life in the big city. Cheers, Kurt O. Allen Washatko wrote: > Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors > and Wilwood calipers. > > Allen > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. >> First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a >> 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? >> Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero >> standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine >> top end. >> >> On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >>> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >>> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >>> packages! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ >> / >> / >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > *Jody & Allen Washatko* > > W51 N664 Highland Drive > > Cedarburg, WI. 53012 > > USA > > > tel. (262) 375-6888 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:00:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:00:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:14:36 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:14:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910201436.LBLHA.216745.imail@fed1rmwml40> You are wrong in a couple places. The frame is indeed a stock Triumph frame. The suspension parts also so we could try a get the factory to build the car. The body is aluminum not plastic. The track is stock TR-250 / TR-4A. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -- Never be beaten by equipment From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 18:31:08 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:31:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1147 (six-port) cylinder head primer, anyone? Message-ID: Can any of you of the early Spitfire persuasion give me a primer on the "good" and/or "better" cylinder heads? I'm really interested to know about casting numbers AND stamped numbers, what the differences are, why the 303014 (casting number, I think) head was once banned in SCCA Production racing but is now allowed again and what's so special about that particular head...in short, any such details you'd care to share. I know someone once told me that one or more of the 948cc heads was good as well; unfortunately, I lost the details on that in a long-ago computer crash. Thanks for any and all insights! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/2cd6be2d/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:34:49 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:34:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910203449.U1U73.217075.imail@fed1rmwml40> Well again there a little to be corrected. It made just over 200bhp on the engine dyno and had a ton of torque.The windscreen is that shape because we did not have enough money to make our own dsign so we used a glass that Pete had already used in his Samauri Hino special. It fit, okay and looked great. Pete's detail work was always great. I've written tons about this car in all my books. By the way it was on the cover of Competition Press (Aurtoweek) twice twenty years apart. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -- Never be beaten by equipment From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 10 19:23:00 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Message-ID: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video Message-ID: > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/79437d26/attachment.bin From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:53 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=P1010325 .flv Try this one ...better link. Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul MacDonald [mailto:macdonaldp at rogers.com] > Sent: September 10, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Fot > Subject: FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video > > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/0d816d1e/attachment.bin From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:48:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/1066caef/attachment-0001.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 20:39:46 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:39:46 +0000 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions Message-ID: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/f1c28fcd/attachment.htm From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 21:37:01 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:37:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <380-2200894113371175@M2W003.mail2web.com> :-) SECOND! Original Message: ----------------- From: David Talbott dtalbott at archrepro.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 To: kaskas at cox.net, Chasgee at aol.com, Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:39:58 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:39:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: Yes, all are welcome (doesn't have to be a real Group 44 car), but we already have about ten Group 44 cars committed including Bill Warner's TR8. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 6:02:14 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Tim > ? > What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? > ? > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM > To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? > > We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also > have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against > the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! > > Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/be02bc5b/attachment.htm From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:49:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:49:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/f4aaa09c/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 21:56:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. I'll second that. Paul MacDonald -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/9483cfb9/attachment.htm From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:01:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:01:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. > ? > I'll second that. > ? > Paul MacDonald > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Cc: kent at auto-restore.com > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, > owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring > the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 > GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a > lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/a5be28d3/attachment-0001.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 22:09:39 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:09:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091120080409.25205.48C89A0300045BE0000062752200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. I've seen his car, and it IS insanely fast. Second. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/761aa34e/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: GRMTim at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:50:56 +0000 Size: 646 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/761aa34e/attachment.eml From henry at henryfrye.com Wed Sep 10 22:12:18 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The CRC at Portland in 2009 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C91@server.Triumph.local> It looks like you have some real momentum going here Bill, it sounds like a good plan to me. Assuming you get SOVERN's blessing, I'd say run with it. Would anybody from the east be interested in going if we figured out some sort of affordable transport for our cars? From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:16:00 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/2d175ed5/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 22:26:54 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:26:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46CAEDEB-5B6F-4EB6-8A20-FEF448E4534F@bnj.com> I doubt they will have problems. I never have understood what that gutted interior stuff is all about, If your car has 1967 elements then it makes sense to say 1967, but the best guys to ask are John James, Jeff Quick, and Tony Garmey since they have direct knowledge of what SOVREN wants for production cars. On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:39 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/e03f0f19/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:59:31 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:59:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: I sure like the sound of it as there is NO WAY I could make Portland. It would be as tough as The Glen but the Mitty is more in the ball park!! Besides, why reinvent the wheel? A lot of the leg work has already been done and there did seem to be a question or two about SOVREN. Just my 2 cents and not worth that but I have a much better shot at making the Mitty than something way NE or way NW. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/96937c61/attachment.htm From quicktr4 at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 23:43:51 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? References: Message-ID: <003c01c913d1$5f19f8c0$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> the reason the tr250k is so fast is the talent behind the wheel. tony is a remakable driver and can make an also ran car run upfront. not that the tr250k is an also ran.the standing joke in the pits is if you want to take 5 seconds off your lap times just have tony drive it.the tr250k is a very good car very neat to see it run. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080910/8fc4a9b9/attachment-0001.htm From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:05:37 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:05:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/b1055782/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:07:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:07:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT nomination check on Phil Hyer Message-ID: <8CAE215C6B1E03E-9EC-26D9@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Phil lives in South Fla & recently got an early TR-4 that we are getting ready for him to race. He was nominated to FOT a month or two ago, and is apparently not on the email list. Is there any way to check? His email address is- philhyer at gmail.com Thanks, Glen From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:41:31 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:41:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Message-ID: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 06:18:53 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:18:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/439fa157/attachment.htm From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 06:29:32 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:29:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/d2e8ad4c/attachment-0001.htm From tarch at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 11 06:35:58 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:35:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> References: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <963DFD36727F4C349E3A3274D766E6A2@richardiipc> Yes, _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Marshall Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/932a30a6/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:45:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:45:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll give a loud amen on this event. The Group 44 Reunion, the Mitty, the great hospitality of our hosts from Classic Motorsports, the large field of Triumphs in the east and southeast that will attend and, for me at least, being able to hold it to a week away from work makes it a no-brainer. As appealing as the Sovern event sounds, and as much as I would want to be there and race with the left coast TR's, the tow to Portland is a long one and I would have to agree with Gary that I doubt I can make it. I did buy a ticket to the 102 million dollar Tennessee Lottery on the way home from the Glen. Maybe I can fund the trip for everybody. I'd better check those numbers. Bob K. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:06 AM To: GRMTim at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/f24580c8/attachment-0001.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:48:30 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/72520a5f/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 11 07:26:17 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:26:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080911132625.667CF18765E@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/80fcf31d/attachment.htm From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 07:27:07 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:27:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I?m sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence J Bob **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/cd252957/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 07:43:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:43:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand your situation and I hope you don't mind me having fun with it. 12 years ago when I started racing my 3 kids were in band, soccer, football and basketball and finding time to race was a challenge. Now one is married, an in 2 years the other two will be out of college. I'd go back if I could. ________________________________ From: Group44TR7 at aol.com [mailto:Group44TR7 at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:27 AM To: Kramer, Robert Cc: fot at autox.team.net; trrace at jeack.com.au Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/5b4a0310/attachment-0001.htm From henry at henryfrye.com Thu Sep 11 08:23:19 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:23:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Marshall > Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion > > Is the Mitty an HSR event? For those of us with short memories, we did the Mitty as our feature event a few years ago, I think it was 2005. Yes, it was a an HSR event then, I assume it continues to be an HSR event. HSR does things different than what we are used to seeing here in the east. I know it annoyed some folks, but it didn't stop me from having a great time. But, my vote for our feature event will always be to go to a club event, not a festival event. We tend to get more track time and have the opportunity to enjoy each others company, as opposed to being drawn away with other activities. I am not trying to put down the fantastic weekend we just had at the Glen, and all the efforts of Joe Alexander, Jack Woehrle, Tim Suddard, et al. I had a blast. And the fact we had such little attrition is probably due to the fact we didn't get a lot of track time! So maybe there is something to say about that... But for me, I will always vote for an event that is heavy on track time and light on fluff. No matter how much fun the fluff is, I enjoy driving my car more. To restate the obvious, there is no reason we can't support a west coast event AND an east coast event. The CSC sounds like a hoot. I hope some of us out east can figure out how to get cars there. The Group 44 reunion at the Mitty sounds great as well. I'm sure it will be well attended. I don't have a May event on my race schedule yet, I'd consider it. Road Atlanta is a great track. What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:12 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-220089411142712558@M2W026.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:17 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 08:47:39 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:47:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Thu Sep 11 08:53:15 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 08:54:27 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Henry Frye Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion << What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! >> Maybe that needs to be our non-festival east coast target event. It's long on track time, low on cost and just about the best venue anyone could want. It sure was fun last time. Don From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 11 08:55:11 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. A. 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 08:58:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C066B7A-19EE-42C4-8A1C-98DBF887336C@bnj.com> The gene pool of my family is very shallow, but I assume Newfoundland contains many such genetic mud puddles. On Sep 11, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/b7faf4ec/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:13:18 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:13:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:36:01 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Thanks Cary, I am trying. The dates are May 1-3 2009 with an optional test day on the last day of April. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Tim ? ????????Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top?billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar.?If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. ? ? ????????My challenge has been and will likely continue to?be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? ???????????????????????? ? Cary ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/616ba304/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:36:28 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:36:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it into the wall trying to get back on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek I liked Schumi but tell me the difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately >get back in the lead. > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > >Joe C. > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but >this is one that may be worthy... >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:38:02 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:38:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/08 8:30:53 AM, ofbracing at nefcom.net writes: > Is the Mitty an HSR event?? > Yes. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/8e7aa5a7/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:47:01 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> ??? Did you ignore the footage from on-board Lewis that showed Kimi clearly pulling away from him and then Lewis darting up the inside into La Source and outbraking Kimi? Kimi's tires were crap at that point in those conditions. Kimi did not even make an attempt to cover and instead moved way wide while allowed Hamilton to easily take the corner. Kimi may have been hoping his later apex into La Source would give him a better exit and/or see Lewis pushed wide. Neither happened. At 08:40 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I realize that. But it was because Hamilton illegally passed him that put >Kimi in the position to have to force it in order to catch up. > >Joe > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of David W. Riddle >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:36 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >Joe, > >Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish >and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it >into the wall trying to get back on. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 > >I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard >from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek > >I liked Schumi but tell me the difference > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c > > >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off > >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately > >get back in the lead. > > > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi > >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd > >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > > >Joe C. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > >To: fot at autox.Team.Net > >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > >this is one that may be worthy... > >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:48:17 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/0a3f2054/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:50:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:50:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/96ffc8fa/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:53:24 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:53:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <573F95D8-4890-4CAF-B662-A6D658C61EEE@bnj.com> Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Of course I'll cover the shipping cost any way you prefer. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:48 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the > remains?? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/e4f0e8e1/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:57:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:57:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Message-ID: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > >> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of >> all >> the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position >> to >> Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and >> this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. >> I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a >> dozen >> times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry >> tires >> & wet track conditions. >> Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he >> was >> well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he >> would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone >> off course. >> I also understand that there are some who just don't favor >> Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" >> issues of late... >> I respect your opinion >> Thank you! >> Glen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Curry >> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net >> Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while >> Hamilton >> did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not >> back >> off >> enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to >> immediately >> get back in the lead. >> >> In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused >> Kimi >> to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. >> >> I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim >> 3rd >> place. That would have been justice in my opinion. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >> To: fot at autox.Team.Net >> Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably >> didn't >> catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, >> but >> this is one that may be worthy... >> Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. >> There >> are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! >> >> http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/ab4b7dbd/attachment.htm From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:06:55 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:06:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the published results that go to the media. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/c0a57900/attachment-0001.htm From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:39 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:08:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting any "Vettes". Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/a4cb6b70/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3129431A-3777-4304-B397-04FD029888AB@bnj.com> Hmmm. I think you missed a couple. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:06 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. > > Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" > classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the > published results that go to the media. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com > writes: > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/94eb3f32/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:07:46 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race >and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep >back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in >the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain >the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the >Stewards agree with my assessment. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:09:25 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:09:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/4aa6d36c/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:11:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:11:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:08 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting > any "Vettes". > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. > > My address is: > > Bill Babcock > 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. > PMB 377 > Portland, OR 97229 > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/37c7bd47/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:18:26 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:18:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> But then F1 (and other road racing) would be more processional than it already is. The curb delineates the racing surface (but is also part of that surface). Hitting or running over the curb (for any reason) should not be cause to lower the car counts during the race. There are already rules to address this. You go over a curb and gain an advantage you give up the position and try again. This weekend I will be instructing at PIR (the one in Phoenix) and as I tell the students in the classroom sessions. Your fees cover the use of the track. The curbs are part of that surface. Use them. At 09:09 AM 9/11/2008, Joe Curry wrote: >I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those >areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within >the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, >people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if >they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > >Joe > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:19:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:19:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner-- very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake > a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? > > Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The > issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had > not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for > the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. > > Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your > faulty :) memory. > > You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and > Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. > > At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch >> the race >> and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let >> Kimi creep >> back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in >> front in >> the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to >> immediately regain >> the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. >> Clearly the >> Stewards agree with my assessment. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/95bc1453/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:14 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:24:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those > areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within > the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, > people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if > they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > > Joe > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM > To: Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the > track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are > not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in > Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/337c485f/attachment-0001.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:30:22 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:30:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911163132.JWQS8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, that's just silly. Yes, Hamilton was in front of Kimi coming out of the chicane. Hamilton lifted on the front straight. Kimi pulled his entire car in front of Lewis because he was going faster then Lewis so even if Lewis got back on the gas to accelerate he will still be slower than Kimi. Lewis moved to the right to try and go up the inside into La Source. Kimi moved WAY wide to the left allowing Lewis to easily take the corner entry. Lewis was able to hold on to maintain the pass on corner exit and did not get pushed way wide. What's faster in a race to the next street light? A Yugo with a running start or a Vette sitting still? I like Kimi too as a driver and favor Ferrari over McLaren as a team (although I do miss little Minardi) and it was an exciting race. The stewards were wrong and Kimi only has himself to blame for throwing his car off track two times in the same lap with the second time putting it in the wall. At 09:12 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Look at it this way, Kimi went around the chicane scrubbing off speed while >he did. Hamilton straight-lined it and therefore had more speed built up. >He could lift slightly allowing the front of Kimi's car to pull ahead and >then get right back on the throttle and pull around. This is precisely what >he did. > >Joe From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 10:33:00 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <385994.21274.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They could add the big spikes to the wheels and allow the other drivers to hurl chains like in Ben Hur --- On Thu, 9/11/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition To: spitlist at cox.net, Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 11:24 AM Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/128f09f1/attachment.htm From trmarty at hotmail.com Thu Sep 11 10:36:03 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty From: JWoesvra at aol.comDate: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.comCC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack WoehrleSVRA Technical Directorjwoesvra at aol.com803-463-5388FAX 803-794-8747701 Center StreetWest Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/32c84174/attachment-0001.htm From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:41:50 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:41:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves. Far be it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. Joe _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/5a409a59/attachment-0001.htm From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:44:01 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:44:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/4d404f5d/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:45:58 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:53:30 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:53:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: So, lets see if I understand all this. 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you pass a car when doing so. 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the car you passed get back ahead of you. Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight through the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass anyone in the process. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/44f73272/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:35 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> References: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2470AB41F5D-151C-132F@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> "Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable." Yes! We are in complete agreement on that! The point of the matter is that Hamilton did gain an advantage (intentional or otherwise) in cutting the chicane, & he promptly gave up his position. If the stewards didn't agree that what he did was proper, then they should have taken action at the time. Like the man told me once, we pay for the entire racetrack so we should get our moneys worth, and use all of it, and I have to admit that it feels good to put that inside wheel up on the berm when the weight is transferred to the outside... but I seriously doubt that Hamilton intentionally went up on a WET PAINTED berm, thinking that he was gonna pull off a hero move & make it stick. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree on this one, the world would be very boring if we all thought the same... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:41 pm Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. ?Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves.? ? Far be20it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. ? Joe ? From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low ? Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I?think?that?the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in?those areas because?they are supposed?to be?there?to keep?the cars within?the confines of?the?track.? If?they raised?the level of?the kerbs, people would not?be so aggressive in?trying?to pass knowing?that?if?they don?t?pull itA 0off,?they will lose?their suspension. ? Joe ? From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]?On Behalf Of?Bill Babcock Sent:?Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To:?Bill Babcock Cc:?fot at autox.Team.Net;?fubog1 at aol.com Subject:?Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't?think Kimi was wrong?to shove?Hamilton?off?the?track in?the chicane either. In a competition at?that?level you are not?owed racing room, you have?to?take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes?Hamilton?would have lost?his right?front?wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great?race,?torturous ending. I also consider?Hamilton's moves?to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great?driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at?first?and?then pulled out?a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first?lost?the lead and?then hit ?the wall. But?Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't?see how?the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It?was?spectacular?driving, well within?the cut?and?thrust?of competition and in full compliance with?the rules of surrendering?a gain made off?track. I believe?the FIA has added an element?of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness?to?the entire F1 scene. I don't?care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but?his leadership of?the FIA has damaged?the sport?by moving victory from?the driver's seat?to?the steward's fat?ass. For?that?I'd support?giving him?the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:13 AM,?fubog1 at aol.com?wrote: Well certainly?there are?those who hold?that?opinion, not?least?of all? the FIA... but...?the facts remain?that?he DID give up?the position?to? Kimi, I don't?think?there is a specified distance for?the lead, and? this was confirmed with both?the?team & race officials at?the?time. I watched?the race, and?the replay of?the last?3 laps at?least?a dozen? times, and I can't?see how he put?Kimi out. Also20consider?the dry?tires? & wet?track conditions. Personaly I?thought?that?it?was a fine example of driving since he was? well alongside Kimi when he went?off;?the alternative being?that?he? would surely have?taken both of?them out?of?the race, had he not?gone? off course. I also understand?that?there are some who just?don't?favor? Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of?the politics and "soap opera"? issues of late... I respect?your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To:?fubog1 at aol.com;?fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at?Spa online petition I will NOT sign?that?petition. ?The way I saw?the situation, while? Hamilton did back off a bit?and allow Kimi?to get?back in front, he did not?back? off enough?to give up his inertia and maintained it?long enough?to? immediately get?back in?the lead. In my humble opinion,?the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused? Kimi to crash out?and?that?does nothing?to erase?that?outcome. I would have black flagged?Hamilton?and not?even allowed him?to claim? 3rd0D place. ?That?would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of?fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To:?fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition I realize?that?a lot?of you were busy last?Sunday, and probably didn't catch?the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one?that?may be worthy... Last?night?there were approx 15,000,?this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot?of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock 0D Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Edito r Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:06:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is the rule. Everywhere. Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. But that is the rule. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > So, lets see if I understand all this. > > 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons > 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you > pass a car > when doing so. > 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the > car you > passed get back ahead of you. > > > Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight > through > the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass > anyone > in the process. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of David W. Riddle > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner > and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in > front. Lewis did that. > > One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same > chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT > letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. > > A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional > race like Monaco. > > At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from > gaining >> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >> those > kerbs >> (curbs) is what is needed. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/a4809a6e/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:13:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:13:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <8B1BFC87-C5BB-4BFB-B125-610CF723D63C@bnj.com> "Advantaged", by the way, also means lap times, so if someone was blowing the chicane every lap to gain time they would be black flagged or penalized. Also, the rules vary, but in most amateur racing if you run two or four wheels off the racing circuit you might be warned once and black flagged the next time. Blowing the chicane is running off the racing circuit. The pro rules are a little different in wording but identical in intent--it's okay to blow a chicane or run off the racing surface as long as you don't gain advantage from it. On Sep 11, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is > the rule. Everywhere. > > Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that > "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the > yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you > blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you > have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower > to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. > > But that is the rule. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> So, lets see if I understand all this. >> >> 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons >> 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you >> pass a car >> when doing so. >> 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let >> the car you >> passed get back ahead of you. >> >> >> Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight >> through >> the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't >> pass anyone >> in the process. >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of David W. Riddle >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner >> and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in >> front. Lewis did that. >> >> One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same >> chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT >> letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. >> >> A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional >> race like Monaco. >> >> At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >>> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from >> gaining >>> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >>> those >> kerbs >>> (curbs) is what is needed. >>> >>> Joe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/eaed3de3/attachment.htm From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 11 11:36:41 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> We spent Monday in NYC, so just got back to Tulsa last night. We had a wonderful weekend. I had originally planned to fly in and hang out, but at the last minute Tom was available to drive, so we brought our car (#16 yellow TR3). We arrived about 6:00 pm Thursday only to find out we couldn't get into the track due to closed registration. Bob Lang was in a similar predicament. Luckily Jack Woerhle came down to the gate and got us in. Thanks Jack. We missed the Thursday practice, so Tom was already behind the learning curve. On Friday's session, he was not far behind the other SW/FoT, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer. The Friday afternoon reenactment was amazing. We could not believe the number of spectators and the support by the local community. We also had ground clearance issues and the tailpipe got knocked loose behind the header. Saturday morning was wet, but we ran anyway. The car came in with a bad miss. For those who don't want to wade through the details, I'll put the problems and diagnosis down at the bottom. We missed the Saturday afternoon session, so the Triumph feature was only Tom's second time on a dry track. He was doing well at the beginning, and the SW/FoT were running together (Hilyer, Kramer and Young). Tom says we were faster on the straights, but they did better in the turns. Unfortunately, the overdrive went out in the middle of the race. I've now got a 4:55 rear, so the overdrive is essential. Due to the loss of speed on the straights, Tom fell back at that point and was eventually passed by Richard Brown's Spitfire. I think we may have fried the overdrive during the reenactment due to the loose tailpipe. Bill, do you still have those overdrive parts? I may need them. I was watching the race at the toe of the boot. Saw the wonderful three car dice between Frye, Williams and Wright. We saw the spin by Randy Williams and his TR3 sideways in the middle of the track. Then two yellow TR4s went around on each side. It was also great to watch the TR250K - so beautiful and so fast! I was completely overwhelmed during the FoT awards ceremony, when they announced my name for the "Bill Ames, Racing for Life" award. I suppose this has something to do with my being a cancer survivor. I was diagnosed a couple months after our 2006 gathering at Hallett. Fortunately, for multiple myeloma the best treatment center in the world is in Little Rock. After six month long chemo sessions over a one year period the cancer is in complete remission and should remain that way for several years. I would not have made it through this process, if not for the wonderful care by my wife, Sue. Unfortunately, the cancer did a number on my back, so I had to give up driving. Tom has been doing a great job since he took driving duties. He has now gotten married and moved to Albuquerque, making the logistics too difficult, so we are selling our car. I may not be actively racing, but I do plan to stay active with the group, as long as you'll have me. I have never met a better bunch to hang out with. Thank you so much for the award. Larry Young _Saturday Engine Problems:_ First, we discovered a broken rocker pedestal stud. A second one was bent, but the rest of the valve train looked ok. We got that all fixed with the help of spares from Henry Frye and Bob Kramer. Thanks guys. We thought we were home free, but no, the engine was still missing. Discovered no compression on #1. Then, discovered no valve clearance on #1 exhaust (didn't measure the lash, just felt that the rocker was not loose). Reset the lash. Still had a miss. Rocker was still tight, so thought we had no lash. We had about 8 guys hanging around trying to figure out what could be causing this behavior. Is the valve seat going away, causing the valve to recede in the head? Someone noticed that there was very little clearance between the valve retainer and the rocker arm, but we didn't follow up on that. Henry has this really cool bore scope, which seemed to be indicating a problem with the exhaust valve. Tom and I looked at each other, and I was thinking "Oh no. not another Mid-Ohio". We decided to pull the head to check the valve. Couldn't find anything wrong with the valve or valve seat. We were getting a lot of good help and advice from Ed Diehl - how cool is that? Finally, noticed a spot where the rocker had been hitting the spring retainer. Decided that was the smoking gun. A little grinding with the Dremel tool was all that was required. Unfortunately, we went through a lot of work to discover this small problem. We have been chasing a high speed miss (6,000 RPM) for more than a year. We had thought it was fuel, but I believe this clearance issue has been the problem. With all the valve train dynamic calculations I've been doing lately, I should have known there could be enough vibration to cause a problem like this. So, add this to the list of clearances to check. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/ac2e4b35/attachment.htm From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 11 12:55:46 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:55:46 GMT Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas.? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/f7e0c57e/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 12:58:07 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:58:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> References: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Message-ID: You have a 2000 Roadster too? ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas. CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim). (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty. We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster. When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles. What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it. Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck. He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast. Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/6e13963e/attachment.htm From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 13:02:41 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:02:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c91440$fd0908e0$b1191718@computer> On the whole, when there are so many occasions that drivers can get off course and gain advantage, it changes the entire dynamics. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:09 AM To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/d8e3579b/attachment-0001.htm From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 14:34:06 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <317355.46066.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/062b860e/attachment.htm From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Sep 11 14:49:05 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:49:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <380-22008941120495675@M2W038.mail2web.com> Actually, that list can change to "had" one of each Triumph model (plus spares of some!). We have been and are divesting before our impending move to Kentucky! The flaming Isetta is ABSOLUTELY going with us. ;) Susan :) PS -- I met Cim the trucker on this end of the trip and dealt with him in person. He knows old cars and was VERY careful with our baby. When he got here, he had a very rare 195X Dodge with original Indy stickers (???), some sort of huge old special Cadillac, and a Bondurant 'vette in his truck, along with our 2000 roadster. He hauls Ferraris and other exotics and knows a lot of people in the car/racing business. I would trust him with any of our fleet. Original Message: ----------------- From: Ernest Husmann ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net, RKramer at rdoequipment.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 15:36:33 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:36:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/7e64d725/attachment.htm From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 15:44:35 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:44:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301c91457$986cd7b0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> I have an old Newfie joke about a guy learning to drive, but it's too long for this post. Andrea, thanks for your help at the Glen; a good time was had by all. Bill Tobin Erie, PA PS Lunker, your car is in the SVRA website in the Glen photo section.----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] next year > I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... > > With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. > > A. > > 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > > > > Joe Alexander > > Honorary Newfie > > > > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 16:12:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> References: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: <8A75F118-0A28-44B5-825A-733098C7B1B7@bnj.com> I've never seen them get wrapped around the axle about gutted interiors. They don't generally ban a car, they tell you what you need to change and expect to see some progress towards compliance. The exceptions are replicas and cars that are just too far over the line, like my TR3. You shouldn't have a problem--or rather I should say the new owner shouldn't On Sep 11, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's > CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although > like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. > Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively > ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've > also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. > Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be > more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. > > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions > > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/c9faa5b3/attachment-0001.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 16:43:43 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! ?(in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? ? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 ? In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him.? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/dd9355fe/attachment.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 11 16:43:42 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:43:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - I just got home!!! Message-ID: <081301c9145f$d7bd3600$0201a8c0@Bevan> I finally got home today (Thurs) after spending 48 hours in my trailer home trying to work out where I was and the time of day. Flight home to London Heathrow from Boston can best be described as Shake Rattle and Roll. Substantial turbulence most of the way and I had to wait *three hours* to have my in-flight plastic meal as cabin crew had to stay belted as well. Arrival in London in the early hours of Tuesday was just as I expected - dark, overcast and raining - as usual :) But I just want to say one BIG thank you to all you guys and lovely ladies who I met for the first time at The Glen - especially to Joe Alexander (for inviting me there in the first place) and to Bob Lang who took on the practical aspects of actually ensuring I did get there from Boston. Joe, you organised a truly great event, Bob I'm so sorry I fell asleep so soon after leaving the circuit - and stayed asleep for so long! I greatly look forward to seeing as many of you as possible next year when the Charity Drive gets underway and I think I'd quite like to do it in the 250K :) Cheers all, Jonmac Originator of The Triumph Trans-America Charity Drive 2009 www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk An event for full TRIUMPH Enthusiast participation From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 17:04:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:04:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually I believe it was "Hogan's Heroes" Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/f6dfcbdf/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 17:08:23 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:08:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63FACBC3-3B38-4DE3-B88A-D209F7EC192B@bnj.com> You're both right. I was confusing the play/movie Stalag 17 with Hogan's Hero's (which was loosely based on the movie), and Hogan's antics took place in Stalag 13. On Sep 11, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > -Ed- > > --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/ef5f7d48/attachment-0001.htm From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 11 17:09:34 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <091120082309.7003.48C9A52E00068DD000001B5B22230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> -------------- Original message from EDWARD BARNARD : -------------- Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/d6adae3f/attachment.htm From timmurph at fastbytes.com Thu Sep 11 17:15:30 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:15:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <036301c91464$493699d0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/dc59b674/attachment.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:14:01 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:14:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091220080014.27125.48C9B449000CE2B8000069F52200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Murphy" I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! I'll second. We need young guys to keep this thing going. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/e7a9f77a/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Tim Murphy" Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:11:08 +0000 Size: 734 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/e7a9f77a/attachment.eml From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:15:21 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:15:21 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Looking For Road America Crew Pass Message-ID: <091220080015.28979.48C9B49900034D38000071332200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> If you are running the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival and have an available crew pass, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/16b563d8/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:25:05 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911202505.R6KKI.295072.imail@fed1rmwml30> Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From gp89 at charter.net Thu Sep 11 18:47:41 2008 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:47:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay Message-ID: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:53:33 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:53:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay In-Reply-To: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> References: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> Message-ID: That FOT sticker on the boot lid makes it worth at least the $6K buy it now price. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of gp89 at charter.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:48 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 19:38:41 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:38:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: Two things. first, Hamilton is okay, I hate say it as I am a Kimi fan, but he tried and did the right thing. Second, the Southern Cal guys have a 2000 mile tow also to go to Portland, but have given it a thumb up. Don't let any of them win on mileage alone. From: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/25cc7c4b/attachment.htm From koblinger at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 20:06:57 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:06:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48C9CEC1.3000901@verizon.net> Stalag 13 was Hogan's Heroes. Bob Crane, Werner Klemper, Schultz etc, etc. Stalag 17 was William Holden, Otto Preminger and Peter Graves, a real classic. Kurt O. (who watches waaayyyy too much TV) Joe Curry wrote: > > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > *On Behalf Of *EDWARD BARNARD > *Sent:* Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > *To:* JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > *Cc:* fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > > -Ed- > > --- On *Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock //* wrote: > > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com > wrote: > > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Billb at bnj.com writes: > > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, > he pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com > . > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From adcronin at ameritech.net Thu Sep 11 20:34:13 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080911/3e28d927/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:54:41 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:54:41 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> Message-ID: They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. Cheers Chris Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/18bbd279/attachment-0001.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:59:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:59:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: I don't agree with you on that video. Schumi was in front so he didn't gain an advantage of position against De La Rosa. So the positions remain the same as before. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 12 05:55:47 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Portland...and Newfoundland Message-ID: <380-220089512115547590@M2W018.mail2web.com> Looks like Portland is it for 2009. I hope to be in the area. I think that John Macartney will be somewhere near Portland at that time on his last leg of the Charity Run, but will need to check the calendar. Uncle Jack & I checked it out a few years ago. It is a sure success. Full Sized Cutout of Uncle Jack in Leisure Suit is a brilliant thought. I still have many folks to thank for The Glen, but my email is sporadic...will try to catch up later. Today we will check out the Targa entries and meet the organizer, Scott Giannou, through our hosts. We will be there for the start of the event. Newfoundland is quite wonderful...I have not found a cod, nor a puffin attractive enough to kiss, but it is forthcoming. Joe & Jan Original Message: ----------------- From: Kas Kastner kaskas at cox.net Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 To: Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:13:51 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:13:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spa race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2E827414A7E-D60-1101@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> McLaren reportedly has the data to prove that Lewis DID lift, and I doubt that they would present the appeal without being able to prove this fact. The other point is that why did the stewards confirm, not once, but twice, that it was a good move, and then penalize him after the race ended? In any event, it sure will be interesting to see what happens... Glen -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton ?wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. ? Cheers Chris ? ? Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient ofA 0their?fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, ?for that?argument?to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed?Hamilton?off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no?inertia?remaining there) and passes on the other side.? ? There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable.? ? Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. ?How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three20time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. ?I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. ?I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. ?It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. ?Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. ? Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com 0A blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:17:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:17:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 12 06:33:26 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:33:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:41:04 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:41:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 07:17:25 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen References: Message-ID: <006401c914d9$e6d81770$0300a8c0@Desktop> OUCH ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: jwoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: JWoesvra at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400 To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/6a434d03/attachment-0001.htm From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 07:47:29 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:47:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks In-Reply-To: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: > A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and > ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at > power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 > rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over > 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/ae7312c5/attachment.htm From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 07:59:42 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart > disease) There was a Schultz character in both. Stalag 13 was the funny one. Stalag 17 was a bit more scary... Great movie, but not uplifting in any sense, IMHO. If I recall correctly, the Schulz in Stalag 17 was sort of pushover / winpy guy whereas John Banner in Hogan was a pushover, but more of a teddy bear character. > -Ed- regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 08:03:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <707469.37239.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> BFE supplies the correct plugs to replace them. I have gotten them from Ken before after the originals were lost in vatting. - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) To: RKramer at rdoequipment.com, adcronin at ameritech.net, triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 7:41 AM I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/9cbceb0a/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 09:06:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:06:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young To: Greg Solow Cc: FOT Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 09:08:26 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:08:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080912150826.CROD21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 09:24:59 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C "The Book" shows the full oiling system schematic. The TRF parts book shows all the plugs - they're pretty easy to find. That said, there are various plugs in the block. Some are pipe thread little plugs at least two are plugs that are threaded into the block and then peened over (or cut flush) and one (in the back of the block) uses a machine thread - it's pretty much a set screw. But a good machine shop should "know what to do". rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Fri Sep 12 09:32:12 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? Message-ID: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 09:51:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:51:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it. On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Two questions actually... > 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on > the piston? This is not good. > 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a > bad thing. > I'm curious as to how this works in service...? > Glen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Young > To: Greg Solow > Cc: FOT > Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks > > > > > > Greg, > > To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and > then > regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to > reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them > reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a > cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. > Others > on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used > spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that > welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding > requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it > straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the > oven. > > Larry Young > > > > Greg Solow wrote: > > > > > > A good used crank properly race > prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the > journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 > 5 hp as long as > the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the > connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with > steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/5a3a9e4b/attachment-0001.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 10:21:25 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:21:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> References: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30ABD00B0DC-D8-2CA@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> OK I guess that is my question. If the spacers on the pin are locating the rod fore & aft (vs the cheeks), then obviously there are loads going into the piston...? Thanks, Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: fubog1 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it.? On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote:Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young <cartravel at pobox.com> To: Greg Solow <gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com> Cc: FOT <fot at autox.team.net> Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the20crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: ?A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 0?? Greg Solow ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.comblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 12:22:07 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <126040.61209.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And I just got an email from TRF acknowledging they have them in response to my inquiry. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 ----- Original Message ---- From: Randall Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:08:26 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/4fb820ae/attachment.htm From tr5racer at btinternet.com Fri Sep 12 13:31:59 2008 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:31:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] No Subject Message-ID: <92806.915.qm@web87114.mail.ird.yahoo.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/78d91c19/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 14:54:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? In-Reply-To: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <840252.97305.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looks a bit like the Spitfire based Corsa Spyder www.fiorano.co.uk ? Thanks - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: From: Chris Kantarjiev Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 10:32 AM http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/5e02f9f4/attachment.htm From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 12 15:08:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:08:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last Saturday. http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Cheers From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 15:12:41 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:12:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <48CADB49.6020802@141.com> I don't know, if you ask me I think its a gorgeous picture! By the way, is there anything you want besides fenders? How about boot lids and bonnets? Congrats! Brad Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > > Cheers > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/01b31493/attachment.htm From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 15:33:58 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <528D507D69D94E5092A49DF3E776E152@jdnet.deere.com> > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Seems odd too that it's the only photo in the article that doesn't identify owners/drivers. Randall From hakhutch at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 12 15:37:15 2008 From: hakhutch at roadrunner.com (Tim Hutchisen) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <006c01c9151f$b9c16ac0$8af4b24c@UPSTAIRSOFFICE> Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! Hutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 15:55:58 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Face it, Henry... you want us all to buy a copy of the print. :-) > Cheers rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 16:05:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:05:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <091220082205.23614.48CAE79F0000700100005C3E2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Hutchisen" > Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! I agree. The passenger looks especially scary. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/8d7b4ef3/attachment.htm From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 17:47:53 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:47:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:09:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry at henryfrye.com writes: With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. ==AM== ...and yet, there's something about Michelotti's design of the TR4 that just looks so ... purposeful in racing trim. Great shot, and kudos to the photographer for capturing it! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/63b78f2e/attachment-0001.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Sep 12 18:01:13 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:01:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.loca l> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. - Tony D At 04:08 PM 9/12/2008, Henry Frye wrote: >Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture >that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last >Saturday. > >http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C >ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > >With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose >that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > >Cheers From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 18:30:09 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:30:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <48CB0991.7070001@pobox.com> I agree. Henry you were awsome. Don't sell yourself short. They love yellow. Since I've owned my TR3, it's been on the cover of Victory Lane twice and a major photo in Vintage Motorsports. Tony Drews wrote: > When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got > the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. > > - Tony D > > From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 18:27:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Towing cam (kinda OT) Message-ID: <48CB08EB.1050400@141.com> We're in the process of having the 454 in our smaller 20' Motorhome rebuilt. We plan on pulling a 31' race car trailer with this Motorhome and I've been trying to figure out what cam would provide the best overall performance for our application. I would like one that has good low end torque up to about 3000 rpm and still be reasonable on fuel economy (of course!). I've talked with several cam manufacturers and that seems to just muddy the waters even more. The heads have 2.02 intake valves and 1.76 exhaust valves. The exhaust manifold ports on the head small at 1.625" in size. I've read and also been told that the smaller exhaust ports will help provide better low end torque so I'm planning on sticking with the heads that we have. I'm considering using the Edelbrock Performer intake manifold but can't seem to find a good solution for a cam. Anyone have any real world experience with a good RV towing cam for the 454 with turbo 400 transmission? Thanks! Brad From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 12 18:27:12 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Message-ID: <20080912202712.BY7F9.261419.imail@fed1rmwml39> In the beginning I made it quite clear that the idea was to have the cup available for everyone at one time or another. First was Mosport, Northern and middle upper USA, second was Buttonwillow, Southern Cal and mid Cal, third was Atlanta Southern USA and others for the East, then to Hallet Oklahoma for the Mid-west contingent, then to Utah for the upper mid-west and far west, now to Watkins Glen for the upper Eastern, so now I think it right to go for the upper West Coast for those people that would like to particpate and have the opprotunity to join a lot of fine racers that have been awarded the cup. -- Never be beaten by equipment From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 19:18:54 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Message-ID: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole.? Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep.? Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire?width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator.? The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width.? It appears as if the fan is pulling?half its?air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening.? It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location?to install the fan. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/943c3740/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 20:38:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:38:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D8DE33B-0001-4C9D-9AE7-761E57C40461@bnj.com> It doesn't matter too much since the fan is only effective at low speed. It's a very good idea to mount the fan behind the radiator, since installing it in front blocks airflow too much (as I found to my dismay). I wouldn't use the plastic "through the radiator" mounts since they can eventually cause a leak. the plastic can't abrade the metal, but dust that gets between the metal and the plastic can. A lot of the triumphs that exclusively race have no fan, or a small fan to keep the temperature in bounds on the grid. On Sep 12, 2008, at 6:18 PM, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > Listers: > Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 > cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable > speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator > without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" > high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" > and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" > and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock > radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom > 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under > the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" > high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling > half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" > below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of > the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being > forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes > the cooling tasks. > > Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned > at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from > the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think > would be the most desirable location to install the fan. > > Planning & Development Services > A. Daniel Cronin > 248 761-2673 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/64bb194f/attachment.htm From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 12 21:56:36 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:56:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69443D6E9556491F9AB0C726A5D483F3@HPPavilion> Daniel, I have a 1,150 CFM fan behind my radiator and it's located near the top of the radiator. I chose that position because the temperature gradient is greater at the top, due to the hot water entering from the top. With a greater temperature differential, more heat is shed from the radiator with every CFM that passes through the radiator. Mounting - I brazed studs to the outside of the radiator. I also brazed a coupling on the front of the radiator, just above the top of the core, for a modern OEM style fan speed switch to control the fan. I put it on the front of the radiator, so it would not be seen. It's easy to change it through the grill opening. Jack 1960 TR3A _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of A Daniel Cronin Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 6:19 PM To: Friends of Triumph; Triumph List Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location to install the fan. Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080912/0dc96094/attachment-0001.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:35:58 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:35:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumphs in the re-enactment race at Watkins Glen Message-ID: <000f01c915be$cd7e3620$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Shortcut to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080913/ee23e6b1/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: watch.url Type: application/octet-stream Size: 94 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080913/ee23e6b1/attachment.obj From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:47:36 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 1220862277463_f Message-ID: <001501c915c0$6db82aa0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I found this picture on this site: http://www.fotolog.com/digikat/archive Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080913/782537a6/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1220862277463_f.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 50589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080913/782537a6/attachment-0001.jpg From cartravel at pobox.com Sat Sep 13 16:21:50 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival In-Reply-To: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CC3CFE.9060705@pobox.com> See, there we are. I told you they love yellow. BOB KRAMER wrote: > Have you seen this? > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: > http://www.the-leader.com/news/x802007256/Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080913/2cb294d0/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 16:33:18 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:33:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison Message-ID: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 17:18:45 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 18:08:31 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:08:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> Message-ID: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> In this case I think that the Shell people put in the full 10% while the other laces say "up to 10%". Less BTU's in alcohol than in gas by a bunch and also corn apparently is cheaper than oil. Wow, what a discovery. I know this, I like 28 mpg better than 24. ---- "Clark W. Nicholls" wrote: ============= We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 20:24:54 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:24:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Here in Massachusetts it is the law that gasoline must have 10% ethanol as an "oxygenator" or some such word. Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Not just Shell (which I use), all gasoline sold in Massachusetts. I think it is similar in California as our new cars are California spec. I'm not sure if it is statewide in NY or other states, but on the trip to Michigan for the VTR event I believe I always filled up with 10% ethanol. (I think 10% is the limit the fuel system on non-flex-fuel vehicles are supposed to use). http://www.epa.gov/MTBE/ Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 13 21:02:03 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:02:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) From britbits at netzero.com Sat Sep 13 21:08:42 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ From lunkercars at earthlink.net Sun Sep 14 01:06:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:06:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Connie, Barley and I still haven't really processed the whole Glen experience yet... probably 'cuz we're not home yet. Thanks everyone for all the great pics and videos that have been posted. As has been said numerous times of the event, the REALLY special part was putting faces and cars to so many FoT names. The road coarse reenactment was truly surreal... the stuff of boyhood dreams to a guy like me. To have a club, a track and a town honor the cars that I happen to be partial to and fortunate enough to own, is a rare alignment of the stars, planets or some-such. A tough act to follow. Thanks so much to Joe, Jack, Tim and Gary and of-coarse Kas along with all the rest who made the event possible. Glad to hear the destination is Portland for next year. Kind of my old stompin' ground. I've never been on the track there but have spectated enough to know it's got to be a fun one. SIR [Pacific?] in Seattle would be great since it's my home town and a track I actually know, but I understand the cluster of such a large event. If it's the weekend before Kastner Cup/Portland I'll likely combine it with that long haul [New Mexico is a long way from anywhere but within reach of most anywhere - put please don't book us a track in Newfoundland Joe]. I kind of figure that if one is in the general neighborhood of a distant place, one ought make the best of it. That theory is why we are now in Brainard Minnesota. After the race we toured up to Niagara Falls with our friends Reno and Claudia who had come for the race [from France - serious Triumph junkies]. We parted ways Tuesday afternoon and headed home. Didn't make it very far that day - I was finally and totally spent. Weeks of 12-14 hour days to allow for time away and getting the car ready after a major freshening, 1900 miles in about 60 hours Abq NM/Glenn NW, a high adrenaline five days at the track and then trying to entertain friends and I was done. Period. Speaking of adrenaline, then there's the story of my shift knob. Sometime on friday or saturday, I came to the realization that a nice gentle up-shift would cost me about 1.5 car-lengths with you guys so enough of that! Well, in sundays feature, I broke the knob clean off... I don't mean another cheapo knob lost it's set screw or anything, but broke the shank of the shift leaver - don't know how many ft/lbs that might take but I did it. I also had a major/minor problem - I was using 2nd to try to get my open diff to hook up a bit coming up the hill [turn? - never did get the names and numbers right]. with the up-shift to third, the knob went a flyin'... I think it hit the dash, bounced odd my knee and disappeared - until the next time I used the brakes. After that it was a game of approaching a corner, looking around the floor to see which petal it was under this time, kinking it out of the way and repeating the process. This little private game went on for three laps. As long as that front straight is, I found that it goes by pretty quick when one is looking, reaching and kicking everywhere trying to get the damn thing to show itself. Going into 1 the only thing I knew is that it wasn't under the brake petal last time i looked. Third time around I spotted the little guy - right next to my right heal - only way to get it was to lift [painful but necessary] and kick it over to the left foot. It worked for an instant but the right foot got back on it before the left could respond and back under the seat it went. Next lap I got it in my field of vision under the clutch petal, worked it back within reach, grabbed it, and just about hurt myself trying to get it wedged between my legs and under the crotch strap. The rest of the race was actually quite enjoyable. Anyway, wednesday morning we were finally putting miles behind us on the way home. Fun and funny how a bit of windshield time can sooth the spirit and give perspective. Around noon I started thing about Brainard. My friend [and new Foter] Bill Swope had told me about and invited us to join them up in Minnesota. 40th anniversary and grand re-opening of a redesign of a very historic old track. $20 entry fee. New to everyone. Almost, sort of, kind of, on the way home. I had been thinking of it and talking about it since before we headed east - almost in jest. By wednesday afternoon I was thinking seriously enough to say it out loud to Connie [I knew Barley was already in favor]. "If it's really on , and if you're up for it, and IF I can get to the bottom of that high speed vibration, and if we turn right soon, we could make it. 30 minutes later we had a plan - press thru to Indianapolis and get a room. Pull the drive shaft and see if I can get to the root of the problem. An easy fix for the vibration was the determining factor. The next morning, a couple calls lead me to Indianapolis Rack & Axle [great guys, GREAT service]. Pulled the driveshaft in the hotel parking lot, and took it 10 miles up the road for a exam. Sure enough, it was .030+" out. Likely from when Connie parked it on a K barrier last year but undiscovered since the car has never been on any track nearly as fast as Watkins Glen - the vib could only be felt at well over 100mph when it would come in with a vengeance [more on that later]. Straight and true driveshaft in hand in under 45 mins., and we were headed north. Yeah, Indianapolis Indiana is not the shortest route from New York to Minnesota but still in the neighborhood as I like to say. 13 1/2 hours later we were again fried, but in Brainard. Friday had a couple practice sessions that were the first laps ever on the reconfigured track. They've taken the old 9 turn, 3.5 mile, flat-out track and turned it into a 13 turn 2.5 mile circuit with some fun technical stuff. When the Glen planning first started to get momentum last winter, I sent out a message saying I was in if someone would promise rain. Joe replied saying "it always rains in Watkins Glen in September" and I knew I was in. Some say "be careful what you ask for". I'm learning to be very, very specific. When I mentioned my rain wish in the our paddock last weekend, I almost got lynched. And I have to admit that I wasn't being specific enough. We got It, but Saturday practice and the last race Sunday was not what I had in mind and it didn't help anyone. Today was a whole different story. Gloomy, foggy and cold this morning - no point in going out in my view - lots of drivers that had just gotten there this morning who had therefor never been on THIS track and lost of potential for mayhem. The very first race on this new track was our vintage group at 1:30. By 11:00 the foggy mist rolled in. By 12:00 it turned to definite rain. By 12:15 I put on those brand new, 8 year old, borrowed, slightly treaded Kuhmo Victoracers on steel wheels who's only scrubbing was the drive from the track to the village and back last weekend. By 1:00 it way raining buckets and though giddy, I was also getting a bit nervous. Unusual... what if my huff and puff was all bluff? After all, I've never actually raced in the rain [not much opportunity in the desert], I just know that I kind'a like slippin' and sliden' and have always thought of slippery as the great equalizer. Damned if I didn't win the thing!!! In all honesty, only because the GT350 with the bubblegum rain tires broke a few laps from the end, but hey, you gotta finish to win. Getting by the crazy-fast Mini - THE car for the conditions was the part that really blew my mind. Didn't know I had won until I got in. Couldn't figure out how the Mustang got out of my sight, but the visibility was that bad... I had no idea he had come in, only knew he was gone. Pictures of us coming into the new turn 12 [the toughest and tightest turn on the track show a literal bow wake ahead of the cars. WHAT FUN!!! In the second race it dried out unexpectedly fast and the under-inflated, lousy hard tires weren't quite quite up to the task and I was happy to get a third behind the deserving crazy-fast mini and a very well driven 'vette. If tomorrow is dry as forecast, I'll likely get my tractor powered butt handed to me on a plate. Todays dose of adrenaline is nearing it's end, getting low on beer and 8:00 am drivers meeting, so goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 14 06:37:39 2008 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (Bill Collins) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:37:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. Message-ID: In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/ce9835fe/attachment.htm From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 07:20:24 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:20:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: Kas The addition of ethanol compromises vehicle mileage, just as you have experienced. From a consumer point of view, the consumer pays more $/BTU for ethanol gasoline than $/BTU for gasoline without ethanol. From a political point of view, we have happy corn farmers. As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Cary In a message dated 9/13/2008 3:33:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/03b67d21/attachment.htm From mdporter at dfn.com Sun Sep 14 07:27:24 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:27:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 09:38:58 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/5f29a4fb/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:00:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:00:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/50478301/attachment.htm From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:14:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> Message-ID: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > president > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > actually worse for the environment. > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > of > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > cars. > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > emissions at all. > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > so > it does no good at all. > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:25:11 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/a59b24b0/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:23:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <583B9A24-28E0-4FB5-A53B-D0B6A2EBEBE8@bnj.com> Incidentally, with corn futures at $5.60 a bushel and Soybeans at $12.00 farmers that grow any potential fuel crop are pretty delirious these days, as are farmers in general, since using corn for fuel and other factors seem to have driven food up enough to compete with gasoline as an expense. I remember when farmers were politicking like mad to get the government to invest in ethanol production. Now they're being a lot more quiet since the "green" aspect of alternate fuel production is being given the scrutiny it always deserved. As usual, politically motivated "science" sends us down paths that don't deliver real change. Just politics. I can't help but view people who jump on bandwagons as suckers. Assuming climate issues and pollution get worse, I wonder if anyone will remember that the Kyoto accord enabled BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) to capture the lion's share of worldwide manufacturing growth in extremely unregulated environments. Anyone who thinks it was labor costs alone needs to visit a lights out machining facility. Uneconomical and going out of business in the US, but not in China. I wonder why that is? On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/a85d76ef/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:24:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:24:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really > well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in > Congress > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which > lobbying group > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> president >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with >> the MBTE >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst >> equipped >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions >> were >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted >> on the >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Randall >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >>> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, >> it does >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the >> mixture >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, >> which >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures >> that >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only >> takes one >> of >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> cars. >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but >> you'd be >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And >> remember, >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> emissions at all. >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the >> fuel, >> so >> it does no good at all. >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. >> Click >> Here. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/6897004d/attachment.htm From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:25:54 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:25:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol eventually and they cycle continues. Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen content.....fertilizer. Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry comfortable suspension. Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/5ef41ef4/attachment-0001.htm From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:35:28 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:35:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Relative BTU Message-ID: <24349897.12426711221410128226.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> The fuel/oil industry should have a standard that indicates the relative BTU the fuel has. It is not enough to list the octaine. The Ethanol fuel you purchase may fill your tank but, it is a false fill as it empties faster than traditional gasoline. M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Sep 14 10:42:51 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: Mordy... Your dissertation is very interesting. Bill (Damdinger) PS...but in a way reminded me about that old Mexican Cat Skin joke. It's an old Wisconsin ice fishing joke, and takes too long to tell, but the punch line was, "The cats'll eat the rats...the rats'll eat the cats, and we'll get the skins." ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/fb6c21cb/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:53:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:53:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <4902445F-7B14-43C3-A2BB-9F371376FA0A@bnj.com> I love the guy, he actually makes sense and has some facts to back up his position. Great job on your goats and fuel. I looked around here for sources of fryer oil to convert, but being Portland, everyone that uses a can of crisco to make some fries has a biofuels guy waiting at their doorstop. Biodiesel runs about a 50 cent premium here, and people buy pretty much all of it they can get. Weird. A few days ago I was driving behind an older Mercedes Diesel that was fogging for bugs and emitting a smell like rancid french fries. Had biodiesel stickers all over the bumper. I thought, "man, there's a guy doing some great marketing for fuel diversification." My friend Cameron Healy also puts his money where his mouth is, driving a diesel newbug, investing in biofuel companies--and I think it's great. Of course he used to own Kettle Chips, so fryer oil was easy to come by. I think whey is a welcome when you're milking 10 goats, but my friend John Karamanos owns Sunshine Dairy, who make cottage cheese by the ton every day. For them, whey is a problem. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/5562e257/attachment.htm From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Sep 13 19:56:17 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:56:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <007601c9160d$13ddd1e0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/4c4bb350/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 11:07:46 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <517A9C7A-A81B-4793-A9B9-17144B16D03C@bnj.com> Incidentally, if you really want a headache, try to figure out the price of fuel ethanol. What a convoluted mess that is. The feds supply a nice subsidy, but they pay it to the buyer (the oil companies) and theoretically that gets reflected back to the market price, though how that could happen in a competitive market escapes me. Essentially it LOOKS to me like ethanol is cheaper than finished gasoline if it shows up at the refinery for 2.70 or less. The subsidy looks to be about $. 03 per mixed gallon of fuel or roughly $.30 per gallon of ethanol if it's 10 percent, I think. I need to go ask my economist friend to step me though the math and all the wiggle words. Rack fuel ethanol prices are quoted by state, but there aren't any refineries that I know of in Minnesota. Do they mix the fuel in tanks in each state? or do they really ship it to the refinery? Local mixing makes sense, but I stopped expecting things to make sense a long time ago, especially when government regulation and subsidies get added to the mix. Can't help but think the market would have done all this with much greater efficiency. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/70bf6c8f/attachment-0001.htm From rem9 at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 14 11:10:30 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:10:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/e0686c9a/attachment.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:21:17 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Message-ID: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in on the whey cool discussion? Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Moore To: 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/c6434bee/attachment.htm From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Sep 14 11:32:20 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:32:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CD4AA4.5040300@141.com> No Whey! BOB KRAMER wrote: > Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in > on the whey cool discussion? > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Russ Moore > *To:* 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com > > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey > as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep > producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of > tofu that is likewise utilized. > > > > Russ Moore > > Upstate NY > > > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Bill Babcock > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM > *To:* mdporter at dfn.com > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > > > Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that > might be an interesting micro-source. > > > > > > On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > > > > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much > energy > > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > > > > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/e67b6a0f/attachment-0001.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:43:30 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:43:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: <006001c91691$6707c040$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/a56f1516/attachment.htm From LOddTR at aol.com Sun Sep 14 11:45:16 2008 From: LOddTR at aol.com (LOddTR at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:45:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: They said it was the "Zippo" so I expect it's a year old or more. Nice shot of Henry Frye on the historic circuit tour. Leo Oddi In a message dated 9/14/2008 1:44:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer _rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_ (mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/0c99fac6/attachment.htm From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 11:47:40 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/0b170644/attachment.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 14 12:02:04 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ____________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. _See Now_ (http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/) = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/61e42127/attachment.htm From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 14 12:13:45 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:13:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914181345.EHNS21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > So I think this means that one can't always go by the > labeling on the pump. That's what I believe too; glad someone came up with hard evidence to support the theory. As mentioned, there is a Federal mandate for 10% ethanol that took effect early this year. However as I understand it, it only requires an average of 10% in the fuel sold, which likely means that fuel blended near the ethanol refineries will get more, and fuel blended far from an ethanol source will get less. Randall From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 12:18:54 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:18:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Steve, don't really need to get in contact with him. As far as the soaked frame, nope, must have been another article. Marty From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/2eca08a1/attachment.htm From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 11:42:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Tim Murphy Cc: britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/d76a3911/attachment-0001.htm From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 14 13:02:18 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ Message-ID: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open up the intake manifold to match them. Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final smoothing by hand. I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? Thanks, chris From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 14 13:13:56 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ In-Reply-To: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: I did it. http://www.gt6.ca/08/0108/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0223/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0310/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0405/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0614/index.html Questions :) ? A. On 14-Sep-08, at 3:02 PM, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally > getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates > were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open > up the intake manifold to match them. > > Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just > open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners > split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( > My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, > but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this > with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final > smoothing by hand. > > I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these > holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? > > Thanks, > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 15:50:17 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:50:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/91de06e1/attachment.htm From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:09:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:09:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? :-) Cheers, Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/0a12c183/attachment.htm From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 17:13:59 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:13:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/a974f5a2/attachment.htm From Herald948 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 17:16:57 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:16:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/67bad35a/attachment-0001.htm From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:21:46 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:21:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Either way, one would tend to get the "munchies" Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:17 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/930d666c/attachment.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 17:30:16 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:30:16 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <018801c916c1$d865a8d0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Not so much animals - but the exhaust sure smells of fish and french fries when climbing steep hills. Trouble is, I'm trying to work out how I can refine the exhaust aroma to filter out the odours of flaming food wrapping (old newspaper) as well :) John ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'John Macartney' ; 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? J Cheers, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/9656f763/attachment-0001.htm From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 03:39:13 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:39:13 +1100 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) References: Message-ID: <01ce01c9164d$bf7f3e90$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Also appeared in the Central Michigan Maraschino Cherry Producers Fall 1998 newsletter with the caption, " One cherry little sportscar!". Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/26e1cd8e/attachment.htm From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:54:11 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:54:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: whups/ Another try. Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: Yes, the mileage goes down. By about 20% in average driving. Yes the fuel costs less. About a third when I filled up today. The fuel price is a lot less volatile too. It hasn't changed more than about 5 cents in the last month. Net/net it's a gain for me. The downside is I cannot use it while towing. The mileage goes WAY down. like to about 50% of what it is on gas w 10% ethanol. On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:50 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees > with most of you. > > I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run > on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: > > > 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the >> distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had >> something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I >> think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great >> plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners >> and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the >> distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. >> >> Tim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Bill Babcock >> *To:* Tim Murphy >> *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. >> On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: >> >> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal >> mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well >> thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE >> standards >> they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in >> Congress >> to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying >> group >> was pushing that bill? >> >> Tim >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> >> president >> >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE >> >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped >> >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were >> >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the >> >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Jim >> >> Dallas >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Randall >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does >> >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture >> >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which >> >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that >> >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one >> >> of >> >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> >> cars. >> >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be >> >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, >> >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> >> emissions at all. >> >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, >> >> so >> >> it does no good at all. >> >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click >> >> Here. >> >> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* >> * >> * >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/2b75a944/attachment-0001.htm From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:50:26 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:50:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the > distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had > something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I > think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great > plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners > and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the > distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Babcock > *To:* Tim Murphy > *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. > On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress > > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group > > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > > president > > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > > actually worse for the environment. > > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > > Cheers, > > > Jim > > Dallas > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > > Behalf Of Randall > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > > of > > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > > cars. > > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > > emissions at all. > > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > > so > > it does no good at all. > > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > > Here. > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080914/b63d99bd/attachment.htm From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 13:32:19 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:32:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8s at the Glen Video Message-ID: TR8s at the Glen with group 44 Jag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAGy48KW_JQ Paul From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 15:03:56 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:03:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Message-ID: Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! Paul MacDonald (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2B.flv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1752 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/de678639/attachment.bin From vanlake at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 15 15:32:16 2008 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:32:16 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 racers w/overdrive Message-ID: <091520082132.15948.48CED460000CE50700003E4C22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I would like to discuss some model specific (TR6) questions that I have with current TR6 racers. mainly those drivers that are/have used overdrive transmissions either A, or J, types. If you could drop me a line so that I could bounce a few questions off you it would be greatly appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/b5be5d9d/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 15 16:38:13 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: <656FE146.72CDABEF.00159EE9@cs.com> from newfoundland...and the roar of targa actually mark bradakis plunks his magic twanger. wondered why kent has not joined us sooner. joe a >Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What >happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. > >Tim Suddard >Publisher; Classic Motorsports >and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >www.classicmotorsports.net >www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > >In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > > >> Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. >> ?? >> ?I'll second that. >> ?? >> ?Paul MacDonald >> ?-----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On >> Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com >> Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Cc: kent at auto-restore.com >> Subject: [Fot] Nomination >> >> I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, >> owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring >> the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 >> GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a >> lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. >> >> Tim Suddard >> Publisher; Classic Motorsports >> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >> www.classicmotorsports.net >> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 >> >> >> >> ************** >> Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the >> latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >> > > > > > > > > >************** >Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, >plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > >(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 18:56:24 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:56:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:04:41 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:04:41 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000801c9171a$79501610$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Rear axle bearing end play? Axle length may have been changed by freezing or shims gotten mixed up during reassembly. Just thinking what may have changed when you removed and froze the rear axles. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 15 19:19:52 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:19:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Message-ID: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/4b769c1a/attachment.htm From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:20:44 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:20:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: Greg, My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more expensive! Good Luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/4ae3a50d/attachment-0001.htm From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 15 19:23:49 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:23:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4544B734-8728-4C31-BBB2-9EC7B2BB2632@gt6.ca> A friend of mine had an odd vib, on a whim he swapped the drums and yeah it went away. A. On 15-Sep-08, at 9:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been > through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and > balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron > drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The > strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, > the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to > figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more > expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net > writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/3f847c75/attachment.htm From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:50:42 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:50:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Toast to Jack at Road America this weekend Message-ID: Hi everyone, I know that there where many of you who took a moment to raise a glass to Uncle Jack at the Glen last week. I wish I could have been there, but alas it's just too far from Minneapolis for me this year. I am assuming that there are a number of you who could not be at the Glen, but WILL be at Road America this weekend for Fall Festival. For those who will be there I invite you to stop by my paddock on Friday at 5:30 P.M. for a toast, a cigar, and to share a few more good words about Uncle Jack. I'll provide the Single Malt, decent cigars, and Gin for the non-scotch drinkers in the crowd (we do after all race English cars). I also had a 3X5 foot banner made-up that I would like to have people sign, and we will give to Tony for garage-art at the end of the weekend. You can find me parked with the "British Race Group" (please forgive the presence of the MG's) in the grass competition paddock across from the t-shirt shop, near the gas pumps. Look for the white #711 Ginetta G15. ( I know, I know, no Triumph again this week. The Kellison/TR4 is nearing completion!) Hope to see many of you there. Please feel free to bring anyone who knew Jack. Or anyone who wants a free drink, and is willing to SAY that they knew Jack. We'll pour until the Scotch runs out. The trackside dinner starts around 6:00, so we'll start on time at 5:30. Hope to see you all there, John Houlton P.S. I also conduct the track-side devotional time Sunday morning under the VSCDA tent, and will be offering thanks and remembrance for Jack during that time. No cocktails in church, however. Bill Dentinger won't allow it. He's funny that way. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/f2b6bd13/attachment.htm From Catpusher at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:53:31 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:53:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen: Amazing Message-ID: Happy that I could make it to the Glen; a fine event. I was amazed that I missed a number of FOT in the three days that I was there; just like trying to keep up with the posts lately! Hardy **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/db8cfbaa/attachment.htm From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:54:14 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:54:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003301c91721$652eb810$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Thanks. Seems a pretty big tank for such a small vehicle. Guess fill stations were fewer and farther between in the day. BTW, I hate to fill it up, as the fumes more noticable when it is full. Thinking of installing a fume interceptor from a later MGB or TR6, but don't know how they are configured relative to the tank/vent. Any insights? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Gano palm top To: Steven Preiss Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. The manual cites "Imperial" gallons. The conversion is 14.99 U. S. gallons. Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Steven Preiss Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:56 PM To: Tim Murphy Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/2393bff3/attachment-0001.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 20:41:48 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:41:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW - could it be that simple... ? I run modified 240Z finned aluminum drums - same as has been on the car for awhile. I have noticed while adjusting the rear brakes that they are not absolutely true - when adjusted a notch too tight, 180 deg. makes the difference from a bit tight to totally free. They have been that way for the couple years I've run them but never a problem. Curious though that you mention those 3 tracks - 2 that I've been on in the last two weeks and probably the fastest that I've ever seen and don't care to in the current condition. However, I would think that it would be a progressive problem - not one that would come on with such a difference [still not convinced that it is not 4th gear only - been racing, not testing and that is my fault]. I am packing spare cast drums, rear axle, hub and bearings and a diff cut off at the tubes [ not that I could DO anything with the diff. - only in hopes that I could find someone that could set it up should the need come up]. I guess that would be one change I could make for a chassis dyno. Otherwise I don't know that a dyno could help much. A really great stretch of road would be preferable but the 19 cops I've seen in the last couple hundred miles makes that seem unlikely. Wisconsin probably won't help either. There is lots to be said for New Mexico, and some of the "Last Open Roads" is near the top of the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also > been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, > and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old > iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. > The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road > America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was > delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not > something more expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/614cf203/attachment.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 21:43:25 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:43:25 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Message-ID: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 22:59:36 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:59:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/7fc81de8/attachment.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 23:28:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:28:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > Greg... > > Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that > track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn > ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new > track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot > print. > > Bill Dentinger > > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080915/a4d3144f/attachment-0001.htm From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 16 01:54:51 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:54:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, and meaningless on inline engines? mjb. From RustyTR4 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 04:37:19 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:37:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: I will second that and welcome Jack to the ranks. Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/b79d9f2b/attachment.htm From gaf3 at charter.net Tue Sep 16 06:11:17 2008 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:11:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48CFA265.9080402@charter.net> That's correct Mark The odd fire engines are those 90 degree V6 engines modified from V8's with crankpins at 90 degrees. Some of the early GM V6's even used V8 distributor caps with two towers removed from the cap. Later odd fire engines offset the crankpins slightly but they never achieved a 120 degree offset. FYI Glenn Franco Spit racer under construction Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 06:17:04 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:17:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <007301c917f6$21f3a8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Well we need not say any more ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM TOBIN To: rob ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/8b101584/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 06:33:46 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> References: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Greg, I'm too far away to be of any help other than moral support. Only you can judge the severity of your vibration, but once you are sure the engine is balanced, that the trans is not coming apart, the driveshaft is straight you end up at the rear axle. Pulling the cover off and having a look at the teeth may give you some solace. For my part, running at TWS all these years I thought that the 100 mph vibration was pretty normal and I'm encouraged that there may be a solution by looking into the brake drums. Interestingly, I never notice the vibration on the long front straight, just the back 40 6 grand in third. This was true in my old TR4 and remains the same in the 4A, whatever that means. I blew an oil cooler once in a cold weather start-up. They tend to be a little fragile depending on how they are mounted. What I'm saying is that you may be OK, but like I said only you can be the judge. 3 tracks in three weeks, Barley isn't the only dog in your truck. Wish it was me! With all this track time I guess you aren't going to Hallet October 4 and 5th? Bob -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg - Lunker Hilyer Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:43 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 06:52:37 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:52:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <20080916125237.CLGP12447.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@randall> > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? Not necessarily. "Even fire" means that the cylinder firings are evenly spaced around two rotations of the crankshaft (for a 4 cycle engine). The old John Deere inline 2 cylinder tractor motors were odd fire. Instead of having the crank arranged so both pistons came to TDC at the same time (as required for an even fire 4 stroke 2 cylinder), the throws were opposite. Thus the cylinders fired 180 degrees apart, then no firing for 540 degrees. The resulting exhaust note earned them the nickname "Johnny Poppers". But I don't know of any other examples of inline odd fire engines. Randall From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 16 07:12:39 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CBE@server.Triumph.local> Greg, I hope somebody comes up with a weekend saving offer for you! I always wanted to make VSCDA's Fall Festival at Road America, hopefully some day. Having paddocked next to you at the Glen I can happily endorse Barley as the best dog in the paddock. I would not dismiss the brake drums causing the vibration too quickly, especially since you had to have them machined to open up the center hole. That operation could have easily thrown them off balance. My very high speed vibration was caused by the gearbox tailhousing bolts working loose. I have since added snugging up those 6 bolts to my between race weekend checklist and have been fine ever since. The vibration did cause me to retire that gearbox case and rebuild into a new one, but I felt the vibration at every track I ran. Henry Frye #04 TR4 > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer > Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive > Here's the deal [offer].... > The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going > it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my > problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 > hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at > it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but > enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with > good race experience want to make a group effort? > If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the > expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can > get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that > mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude > and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" > need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. > The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same > applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm > packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to > be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be > considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race > tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] > to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] > and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. > I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires > a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the > point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. > From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 16 08:38:27 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <00c501c91804$ab190810$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: If you are having trouble viewing, I would suggest going to my home page on photobucket then go to page two, the videos are all there. They end with 1, 1A, 2A and 2B http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/ Paul -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr at comcast.net] Sent: September 16, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Subject: Re: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Paul I've tried to open any one of the four up and I can't get it to open (help) Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Fot" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:03 PM Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen > > Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' > youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. > > The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. > > As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! > > Paul MacDonald > > (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2B.flv > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 10:19:43 2008 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/fbd2b572/attachment-0001.htm From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 10:51:38 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:51:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience > would be a > problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero emissions (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities refused to allow him to license it for the street. Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to internal combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. Randall From rem9 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 16 10:55:24 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) Thanks Russ Moore Spitfire #49 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/add54882/attachment.htm From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 10:57:41 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/f019ae66/attachment.htm From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 11:07:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:07:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161007n6c659a5clb93a009ecf306c76@mail.gmail.com> try aurorabearing.com. Great catalog. 2008/9/16 Russ Moore > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/1dc59861/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:20:13 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:20:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, boiler inspections are required, it's what killed steam heating, which is much more efficient and requires far less internal space than ducted air. Well, that and the clanging, water hammers and the opportunity to be scalded to death in your own apartment. . You can build a very efficient steam engine, but you still bang up against the carnot cycle. And air-cooled steam engines hit that wall a lot sooner than water cooled. Still, they make a lot of sense for cars, especially in a hybrid approach where warm-up wouldn't be such a problem. Single speed steam engines can be much more efficient than variable speed ones--they make great generators, which is one reason steam turbines are the default generator prime mover. They require complex water removal systems to ensure the steam has no entrained liquid--it eats the blades up like a sandblaster. But that's ancient technology. I've been reading a lot of popular physics books lately (that sounds like an oxymoron) and I'm struck with how many good ideas have been squashed by "fashion" in science. You don't have to be a quack to have your career ended by supporting a discredited theory. Just ask Pons and Fleischman (Cold Fusion). Interesting that all these many years later (15) the department of Energy convened a second review panel (2004) to look at chemically influenced nuclear processes. The area of study has been deeply compromised by the public mania and resultant backlash in the scientific community. Fashion, in other words. It doesn't take a conspiracy to doom promising technologies, all that's necessary is plain old human self-interest and herd mentality. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Randall wrote: > > Flieshman >> The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience >> would be a >> problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. > > Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero > emissions > (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again > according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities > refused to > allow him to license it for the street. > > Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low > pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to > internal > combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. > > Randall > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/bc1eb45e/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:23:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:23:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? > hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and > high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/7c5e712d/attachment-0001.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:24:23 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:24:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:25:36 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:25:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from everywhere these days. On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be > had in a couple days. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > >> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >> >> >> >> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >> Spitfire) >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Russ Moore >> >> Spitfire #49 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/efa114ee/attachment.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:39:56 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:39:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> Message-ID: Including the USA according to the box they come in. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from > everywhere these days. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > >> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be >> had in a couple days. >> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque NM >> On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: >> >>> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >>> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >>> >>> >>> >>> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >>> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >>> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >>> Spitfire) >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Russ Moore >>> >>> Spitfire #49 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/81f72a05/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 11:52:20 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:52:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAE63C1A1CD195-F08-113A@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Unless they have changed, the NAPA are junk... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: Russ Moore Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:09:51 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:09:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161209332.SM02816@[166.70.182.40]> I'll second this nomination!? Another spitfire driver is always a good thing. Brad To: trmarty at hotmail.com CC: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:03:37 +0000 From: brad.kahler at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event > ....MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ....... >? > Marty SukeyWow! So many ways you could take this statement!? See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/4065adc1/attachment.htm From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:14:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161214707.SM02520@[166.70.182.40]> I'l second this nomination, even if Mark does have to use his "twanger" to get the job done! Brad -----Original Message----- From: "marty sukey" Sent 9/16/2008 10:57:41 AM To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was?racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ? Marty Sukey Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/a0bc5fe7/attachment.htm From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:52 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:14:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/565af0f1/attachment.htm From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 12:19:18 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:19:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Greg Hilyer wrote: > Including the USA according to the box they come in. Careful here. I have noted a LOT of products that have "Made in the USA" on the box/wrapping, but the actual bits you need are made in Taiwan/China/Philippines/etc. McMaster-Carr is a good source, but no guarantee of where the stuff is made. McMaster-Carr do make an effort to source stuff made in the USA, but it's no guarantee. Pegasus Racing is a reliable source for hi-po stuff. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/51e06b9c/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 12:50:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:50:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ask Kyle Busch what he thinks about the quality of rods ends Joe Gibbs Racing chose...... ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of REK46 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:15 PM To: rem9 at frontiernet.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/252e641c/attachment.htm From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:19:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161219v36d7f500x5f8a2cc782d9cdab@mail.gmail.com> Aircraft Spruce sells Aurora bearings 2008/9/16 Bill Babcock > Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices > aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/da413ec5/attachment.htm From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 13:23:22 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:23:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: They do sell spacers that will allow smaller ID than the bearing domes with ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/7970a55d/attachment-0001.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 16 15:52:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:52:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Assen race #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a video of the race #1. After practice for race #2 I had to retire caused by a broken crank. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4143349641455918640 Have fun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/bf526c00/attachment.htm From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 17:39:16 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: Thank you all for the help with this. I learned something rob ----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/a98175d0/attachment.htm From Dlhogye at aol.com Tue Sep 16 18:56:22 2008 From: Dlhogye at aol.com (Dlhogye at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:56:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought Message-ID: FOT, I had no real idea of what I was getting myself into when I bought my TR3 last June. I just thought I'd build a great little car to go racing with and meet some cool people along the way. It's going to take me awhile to get my car on the track, hopefully I'll be able to run it next season, but I'm well on my way to meeting some really cool folks. Thanks to Tim Suddard and Gary Hunter at Classic Motorsport for pointing me towards FOT and thanks to Gary Horstkorta and Joe Alexander for my nomination to the club. In a very short amount of time I've been gathering a wealth of information and making great connections that will assist me in building a safe, more reliable and hopefully fast TR. I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. After their run most of the cars went to Lafayette Park and were positioned on the lawn around the pavilion where the Triumph "Legends" were to speak. It was a perfect day in the park. There I was pleased to meet Kas Kasner, and the Master of the FOT, I think I can call him that, Joe Alexander. Oh, and there, I was also surprised to rub elbows with Brian Redman, a Legend indeed. The Legends Speak was a fantastic introduction into the lifestyle of Triumph and racing. The rest of the weekend was spent at the track meeting numerous "Friends" and checking out some really sweet machines up close and going 'round the track. It was also nice to meet Joe Richard's and see his very special car, TS1. All in all, it was a great turnout for the Triumph enthusiast. I'd like to thank everyone for the meeting and for taking the time to share some TR stories and information. I never would have thought owning a Triumph would lead so quickly to this much pleasure and camaraderie. Thanks again, Dave Hogye Santa Cruz,CA. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080916/97992d48/attachment.htm From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 17 08:59:30 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:59:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. John H. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/da27ff79/attachment.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 17 09:17:30 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:17:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Phone # needed Message-ID: <87591BF4-73D3-49C8-92A1-87B02DAF8B3E@earthlink.net> Anyone got a cell &/or daytime phone number for Tony Drews? If so, please send it off list. Thanks, Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From VANDECARR at aol.com Wed Sep 17 17:28:23 2008 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:28:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. Dean VanDeCarr ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/6ee6e841/attachment.htm From bownes at seiri.com Wed Sep 17 17:33:07 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:33:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, but generally they can find what I'm looking for. 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The > sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and > HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. > There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end > of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be > cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/7e8fab01/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 17 18:08:00 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A good bearing supply store is a godsend, especially if they have folks that know their business. We have two good ones here in Portland. They DO have rod ends, and one of them stocks Aurora. Aurora invented the two piece rod end, which is substantially stronger than the typical three piece. On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are > about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, > N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. > > The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I > might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, > but generally they can find what I'm looking for. > > > > 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. > The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress > situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions > that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used > their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have > hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/4a754ec0/attachment.htm From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 17 22:01:43 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/905bee07/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Sep 17 21:02:55 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080917/399086e4/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 05:36:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:36:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> References: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE799EDF00C94-1624-2577@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> Yes you run it into the drilling in the back of the head. -3 is fine but it has an ID of .125, which will allow too much oil & fill up the rocker cover. Depending on what fitting arrangement you wind up using, you may have to use a restrictor, about .075 is about right in most cases. Some AN fittings have a hole not much larger than this so it's not necessary to restrict it. Also make sure the shaft & bushes are to spec. If you are in doubt about how much oil you're getting up top, you can let a piece of plexiglass into the top of an old rocker cover & get a visual on it. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: Tony Drews To: Greg & Alison Blake ; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:02 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head You can see the oil feed attached at both ends clearly in this picture: http://www.tonydrews.com/2007-8Rebuild/DSCN0125.JPG As I understand it, both ends were existing holes plugged with a bolt with washer, so it's really easy to attach. You don't want TOO much oil to the top end, or it fills up the valve cover, as I understand it.? Wear on the #1 rocker would be a classic sign of not enough oil to the rockers. - Tony Drews At 11:01 PM 9/17/2008, Greg & Alison Blake wrote: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has.? Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 06:14:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:14:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] - Who would've thought -now....respect for Triumphs at The Glen.. Message-ID: <08F8F295.308B0492.00159EE9@cs.com> FOT, Back in the USA.....crossed border last night. Based on comments I have received, The Triumph (FOT) is very popular group at the Glen. There was a lot of participation from the FOT on all fronts, as well as VTR & TRA. Good feedback from the Village and The Glen. Expect another invitation in the future. If an objective was to elevate the status of our Triumphs, we did it in a resounding way. SVRA caused it to happen by initiating the idea...likely mostly Jack Woehrle. So many people to thank.... Joe A Start planning for 2012, it will be a big one. The 60th Anniversary of Triumphs in Competition. Joe A > > ?I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. > > >Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! > >They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... > >They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. > >John H.= > From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 18 06:38:40 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:38:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and bearing condition in general. I don't use the oil feed line in my race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/14836188/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 18 07:00:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:00:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> I notice no one has mentioned that there is a oil feed kit available from Moss. It's been a standard "tuning" item for many years. I've put them on all the engines I have, I consider it an automatic requirement, even for a street engine. Feeding from the back is probably adequate, I've never had a wear problem and I see oil coming from all the rocker holes as soon as pressure builds. The oil mist in the rocker box is also critical for lubricating the valve stem and guide. You CAN have too much though. Filling the valve cover is a possibility, as is robbing too much oil from the bottom end either by reducing pressure or running the pan level below the oil pickup. I wouldn't mess with the oil passage size, just make sure it's not obstructed. On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:38 AM, Kramer, Robert wrote: > Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and > bearing condition in general. I don?t use the oil feed line in my > race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you > attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever > tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker > pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the > rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/0dd37496/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 18 07:05:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:05:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080918130532.10E5018764A@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/bc26cd9b/attachment.htm From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 18 07:15:18 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <48D25466.7090104@pobox.com> If you don't have enough oil getting to the rocker assembly, I would look for the cause. The rocker assembly is at the end of the line, if you have worn bearings, the oil will bleed off before it gets there. I'd guess that cam bearings are the most likely culprit. When replacing them, make sure all the holes are oriented correctly. If your motor is health, you should have copious amounts of oil coming out of the little holes in the rockers, even at a brisk idle. I think the outside line is sometimes a band aid for a weak motor. Larry Young Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached > a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried > opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal > interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker > shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/ad19d0b7/attachment-0001.htm From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 07:24:31 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181324.m8IDOV5R016023@moose.dimebank.com> I like these, but it's possible to get too much oil, resulting in oil smoke in "less than perfect" engines. Later versions of these have a special banjo bolt with a more restrictive passage that trims the amount of oil to the head. You used to be able to order those banjos from TriumphTune; not sure if Moss US will supply them separately or not (and no, I don't know the dimensions...) From REK46 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 07:27:57 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:27:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/f504e0e5/attachment.htm From fpspitfire at comcast.net Thu Sep 18 07:48:09 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:48:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take. I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top. Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. aaron -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/e095b554/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: REK46 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:28:22 +0000 Size: 659 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/e095b554/attachment.eml From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:05:28 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:05:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> References: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CAE7AEBC8C861B-98C-2AAB@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> I make them up out of good AN hardware, instead of using the pre-made kits. The ones that I have seen use swaged fittings & I don't trust them. Another benefit to plugging the head/block ports is that eliminates that potential oil leak at the gasket joint at the rear of the engine. Glen ps- you can also use little freeze plugs in lieu of drilling/tapping the ports. -----Original Message----- From: fpspitfire at comcast.net To: REK46 at aol.com; cak at dimebank.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 9:48 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take.? I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. ? You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top.? Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. ? I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. ? aaron ? -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear20head? passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Thu Sep 18 08:27:30 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:27:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3n4ViQqdf7o8aQMKeAwdkFLhACRSCdVQG4CYM09v5ewRHEGO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/6d248106/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:51:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:51:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <8CAE7B53A3AB4BA-1170-2EF@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> Yeah whatever works... but... that's way too big. It sounds like you have some wear issues. You'll also see a drop in oil pressure at low revs if it's bleeding that much oil off to the top. JMHO Glen -----Original Message----- From: wgrosenbach at juno.com To: ablake2 at austin.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:27 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ ? On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. =C 2Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg ? ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies!_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:58:44 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: Amici... In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them. A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race. While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/3b3a5e46/attachment-0001.htm From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 09:08:51 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 09:23:00 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:23:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2008 10:09:50 AM Central Daylight Time, cak at dimebank.com writes: > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > We have a TR3 engine on the shelf that has a 'SAH plate' on it. We've had it for years, and have never used it (nor taken it apart). At this point, we certainly would not expect to see anything extra-ordinary. It came over from England in a LOTUS (of all things), and of course was not a good fit. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/830ea770/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 10:36:40 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:36:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: That is awesome. Way to go Bill!! Cheers and good luck. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO 63 TR 4 # 69 (Old # 96) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/91b7103f/attachment.htm From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 18 12:40:41 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:40:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003801c919be$0e2583b0$6401a8c0@TER2> The oil cooler failure was most likely caused by incorrect routing of the oil flow caused by an oil cooler line adaptor that routes the oil through the oil cooler before it goes past the oil pressure relief valve. It must go past the oil pressure relief valve first so that the valve will open and reduce the pressure when the engine & oil is very cold & thick. When it goes through the cooler first, the cold oil pressure has "surges" that travel through the lines & pressurze the cooler to levels most likely exceeding 200 psi! A number or years ago we blew up 3 coolers in a row in similar circumstances before we figured out what the problem was!. We now have proper oil cooler adaptor blocks available that route the oil correctly so this will not happen. They are tapped for 1/2 pipe threads so adaptors for whatever lines you are using can be fitted. The plates are machines from billets of 7075-T6 aluminum. They sell for $90.00 without fittings. The oil lines exit the block to the top and rear. The cleanest installation is done using one 90 degree hose end and one 120 degree hose end, then running the hoses forward along the oil pan rail on the left side of the engine. Greg Solow The Engine Room Santa Cruz, Ca. 831 429-1800 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: BillDentin at aol.com ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: Greg... Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot print. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1678 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 9:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/c0467497/attachment.htm From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 18 14:06:50 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:06:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplemental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2008 11:00:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Re: Supplimental (sic) oil feed to head > > > Been there, done that. Both without restrictor, and with restrictor (3 different sizes) Generally accepted nowadays as a waste of time and money. Too much oil in the rocker box/valve cover is one result, oil smoke out of the exhaust is another, and a drop in oil pressure, even on a known good low mileage engine is a third. The rocker arms were bushed with oilite phosphor-bronze bushings, at great cost, but they wore out, as did the NOS original Leyland rocker shaft in under 20k miles, even with the oil feed hose - I put it down to poor heat treatment of the shaft. I replaced the rocker arms with Harland-Sharpe Roller Rockers (of mild lift) - this is a road car, and the shaft with a Ted Schumacher supplied tuftrided rocker shaft. After another 20k miles even the tuftrided shaft is just starting to wear, although the roller rockers are fine, and that's without the oil hose! My engine has always sent plenty of oil up to the rocker shaft, even without the oil feed hose. The oil feed hose is where it belongs - in the trash. I have read of similar experiences from many Triumph 6 cylinder owners over a long period of time. L?on YMMV. http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080918/d497515b/attachment.htm From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 18 16:49:57 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080918184957.8LDN8.95310.root@mp14> Hey Joe A. hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... Bobby Whitehead From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 17:52:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:52:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers Message-ID: <2F8E4155.5BDE0C52.00159EE9@cs.com> i remain on the road for several more days...poor planning on my part, but this is jan's retirement trip...but i got away with combining it with the glen. when is hallett? joe a >Hey Joe A. > >hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... > > >I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... > > >Bobby Whitehead >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 18 18:21:35 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:21:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080919/08a42c18/attachment.htm From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 01:02:54 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:02:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <091920080702.4141.48D34E9E000745DE0000102D22007503300E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> No sooner did I return from the Glen then off we went for a week. Here are my belated comments on Watkins Glen 2008. I enjoyed reading other's comments and experiences. 1. Best car people on the planet drive/race Triumphs. Helpful, knowledgeable, fun, courteuos yet competitive drivers. Kas is a superb individual. Had great racing action with Tony Drews, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer in the Triumph event and the final group three race. My good friends were visiting from Geneva, NY and wanted to know why I let the pink car pass me. I explained the car was not pink but a rare TR color called Geranium. 2. The track is outstanding and one I've always wanted to race on since visiting the track with the Bucknell University sports car club for the 1962 thru 64 Gran Prix races. However, I drank far less beer this time. 3. #116 ran well except for a high speed miss over 6000 RPM. Tony Garmey said it had something to do with #116 sharing the trailer from the left coast with the Peyote 4. SVAR is well organized and pleasant to work with. Peter Krause's classroom session on Thursday was very helpful in learning the track 5. The Friday night event through downtown Watkins Glen was fantastic. Really enjoyed the local folks and I had the best navigator--Bill Babcock's much better half. Diane rode with me because the Peyote's passenger seat is taken up by the fuel cell. She was a kick with her leather avaitor hat and goggles. However. I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! DID anyone take an in car video of this greatest of all cruises??? 6. The original owner/driver of my TR4 and his mechanic were out in the countryside Friday evening and thought #116 might have been their car they built and raced in the early 70's as we drove by. Saturday morning they were at the track and were reintroduced to their car. I had them autograph the car and we took lots of photos and I listened to all their stories about racing at Kent, Riverside, Portland, etc. What a treat, except for the part where Rich Kliewer rolled the car at turn six at Pacific Raceways--oh and the engine fire at Portland that sent flames fifteen feet in the air. They have promised me tons of photos and news articles on my TR's early history!! They said seeing the car was like finding a lost son. 7.What a great variety of TR's, 3's, 4's, 6's, 8's, the 250K, Devins, Peyote, Spits, plus the first ever TR production sports car. Did anyone take any vieos of the races and car events? Special thanks to Joe Alexander, Classic Motorsports, Kas, Tony Garmey for keeping #116 in top form, and thanks to Tony for bringing the 250K and Devin and Bill Hart for sharing these two historic TR's with us.Wish Bill could have been with us. Last, thanks to all for honoring Uncle Jack's legacy. John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080919/aa696bed/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 19 05:46:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:46:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Well like everything else, opinions are going to vary... You can hog a lot of material out of the stock wheel, but it won't be as light as the aluminum. The other side is the cost of the alloy vs lightening the stock. The specific application & budget will usually determine which way to go... HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 8:21 pm Subject: [Fot] Flywheels FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened? flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 06:02:27 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:02:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Steel wheels are light too. They weigh in at 3,9kg. Cheers Chris From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 19 06:23:40 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:23:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Hi John, The Reenactment is always a high point of the Watkins Glen weekend, but one of the trickiest pieces of driving you will encounter in your race car. As hard as the organizers try to keep everyone on an even pace, when one sees open road in his race car.. Well, you were there. As we rounded the bend the first time to the Stone Bridge the cars were backed up about 5 deep! I saw all the tire smoke in my mirror. Thanks for not tagging me! And sorry 'bout the tires!!! We spent a few minutes before the run removing the grime off the racer. If only I realized sooner how effective a strategy this was at blinding my opposition... Henry Frye Via wireless handheld device -----Original Message----- From: John James Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 07:40:08 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:40:08 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 10:33:01 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:33:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Tee Shirts, etc Message-ID: We're going to take post event orders for another run of these tee shirts, hats and denim shirts, as we did not have enough for people who saw them at the Glen and wanted one. Also, if you know of any of your non-FOT fellow Triumph owners who wanted one of the Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts, please pass this along to them and have them email me. Choices are: -Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts are in grey, all sizes, with the illustration of all of the Triumph sports cars racing past the checkered flag. Shirts are $15, $16.50 for 2XL, $18 for 3XL. there's a black rectangle with Jack Drews' name and dates on the left sleeve. -Baseball caps in denim or khaki, Kastner Cup and Triumph shield and laurels embroidered on the front and Watkins Glen '08 and Friends of Triumph on the back. $16 -Denim or khaki long sleeve button down shirts, with the Triumph shield/laurels embroidered on the right breast and the words "Kastner Cup" above and "Watkins Glen '08" and "Friends of Triumph" below. $30 all sizes Please email me with orders. If you did not get to see the tee shirts, let me know and we can email you the graphic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080919/85d906ac/attachment.htm From susank at 141.com Fri Sep 19 10:53:40 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From greenman62 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 11:10:49 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:10:49 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish I could be there... I will be in spirit. All the best! Greg PetrolatiGreg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: BillDentin at aol.comDate: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 -0400To: fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIIIAmici...In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them.A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race.While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews.Bill Dentinger**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080919/d0427816/attachment-0001.htm From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 19 12:30:57 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <18704321.1221849057570.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Little Sam would love one of those! I'm sure Mom wouldn't let him though, he might run into her antique furniture and leave tire marks on her walls. Mike -----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kahler >Sent: Sep 19, 2008 12:53 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > >Try this!: >http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > >Susan :) > >-- >** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 12:31:03 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Ron Jacobs asked: > Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? We have discussed this at length. Search the archives. Bottom line: Aluminum is too soft. Lightened iron should only be used with a scatter shield. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080919/7137ba20/attachment.htm From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 13:24:56 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... References: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: <002901c91a8d$66ae4e20$0300a8c0@Desktop> Hey now that looks good for autoX Marty you need to order this ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:41:52 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:41:52 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:43:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:43:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:55:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:55:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: It is the ADAC classic race. 400km cut in two slices.....200km Saturday, 200km Sunday.....and 2 hours practice on Friday.... All in all more than 600km at this weekend. I stay in tent....as clubracers should do ;-) I would like to compete in a modern car race too but that is stretching my budget too far. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Johns [mailto:rjohns at woh.rr.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 17:21 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Boy do you have my attention and curiosity. How did you get located and arraigned to run this 400 km on my old stomping grounds. I have a very good friend that runs the 24 hr. Last drive was in an M3. Usually is Porsche. I broke in on the old course. You should have seen it. My period was 54, 55, & 56. I have been back a couple times and toured in a rental car. What a change, from the old original course. Where are you staying or planning to stay? Think of Daun. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:44:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:44:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: I discussed a lot this numbers with the manufacturer but he said, if it doesn't work he will eat his hat and will send me a new set of pistons. The pistons are custom made from Mahle. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Kramer, Robert [mailto:RKramer at rdoequipment.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:08 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I don't have the numbers here with me but 0.0024 seems like a prescription for scuffed pistons. I think I am running 0.004 and numbers 1 through 3 and 0.005 on number 4. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:42 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:48:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:48:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 22:49 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I think that Germany is very much like Wisconsin, where I live here in the US (or perhaps Wisconsin is like Germany). The longest races I've done here are 100 miles (162km or so). I don't need to stop for a bathroom break during those, but I think I'd need to make a stop in a race two and a half times that long. Or perhaps have a tube out of the bottom of the car. Maybe the fact that Germany and Wisconsin have such similar weather is why so many Germans moved here to Wisconsin over the years.... Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:44 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 19 15:55:18 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 16:30:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:30:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: So if I get you right then Road America is in Wisconsin? Okay THEN I KNOW where Wisconsin is. RA is on my "to race " list. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:55 An: MadMarx Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Fri Sep 19 16:34:10 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:34:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Robert Lang: In answer to MadMarx' comment that: >> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of >> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Bob Lang suggested: > Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. Jim Hill From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 19 18:03:09 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:03:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 01:46:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:46:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 02:05:22 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:05:22 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). What are rolling hills? The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sat Sep 20 07:14:44 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:14:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:30:35 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:30:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Since I need to find them allfor Amelia Island and the Mitty, I guess, by default, I have become the unoffical, offical registrar of Group 44 and Kastner Brody cars. Please let me know if you know where any and all of these cars are, how many were built. Might as well find teh replicas too, so we can at least know what's what. I guess I need to keep track of the MGs and Jags as well. I understand there is a GT6 in the Pittsburgh area. Real? Replica? Who owns it? Also understand the Kastner /Brophy TR6 is in the midwest and being restored. Can't wait to reunite all these factory TR6s and GT6s next year. Thanks for all your help. See you at the Mitty in May. On another note, we got our Group 44 GT6 stripped all the way to a bare shell yesterday and was very pleased to find original white paint underneath the dash. Also managed to get the Group 44 and British Leyland contingency stickers off the car without damaging them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/280e2566/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:34:14 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:34:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 07:39:38 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:39:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/7c7a1ae5/attachment-0001.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 08:55:21 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:55:21 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of the story calls his reputation into review!! Jonmac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > >> >> >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). >> >> What are rolling hills? >> >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. >> >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 09:15:45 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:15:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Message-ID: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/b099c470/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 09:32:29 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:32:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Aircraft Spruce link In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE94D397EED54-14A4-21A6@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> They have everything you need... link- http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/pilotrelief.php The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 20 09:51:42 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:51:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080920155143.CVQX846.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall> > You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? > I never thought that German words would find their way to the > English language. We do have a few, although it might be more accurate to say the "American" language. Local grocery also carries knockwurst and of course sauerkraut to go on top. "Der Weinerschnitzel" is even a popular fast food chain (that AFAIK does not actually serve weiner schnitzel ). Randall From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 20 10:24:35 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? J.R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/0c3c8fcc/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:48:05 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:48:05 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: RA is on my "to race list" but I can't afford to bring my car over. Renting a car might be an solution but will be difficult as my setup is not usual for Triumphs. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 14:06 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Wisconsin has large immigrant populations of German, Polish, Norwegian, and Belgian people. Many words from these immigrants have made it in to the Wisconsin English language. You have to come over and race with us at Elkhart Lake. I would love to race with you. On Sep 20, 2008, at 2:46 AM, Mad-Marx wrote: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:55:15 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:55:15 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I?m afraid of scuffing too but today I got the manufacturer on the phone twice (different people) and they told me, stay with set clearance. I asked them why their pistons don?t expand that much. Answer: Less expanding aluminum, special shaped for well fitting. They are more oval. They are made from Mahle. They do F1 pistons also and DTM cars pistons. I hope they should know. Von: tom strange [mailto:tstrange at sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 16:02 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Good morning, I'm curious who are you getting pistons from? I get mine from JE (I use the regular JE import car piston for the spit, not the fancy JE Pros) They call a clearance something like this for street use, and say you can run up to 4 or .0045 for a race application. I always hone to .0055 to .006 clearance and have never had a piston problem. You do get some scuffing with that much clearance, but it has never been a problem. Running them too tight can be a problem. I have had several engine problems over the years but never related to the pistons. (mostly valve issues due to me insisting on designing my own cam profiles and valve train in hopes of engineering myself to the back of the pack ;>) Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire --- On Fri, 9/19/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 3:41 PM I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/4cf50fdc/attachment.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 18:11:15 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:11:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <03bb01c91b7e$911017b0$0201a8c0@Bevan> > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? Very likely. Of all the pix I've seen of Gatso, I've never seen one of him smiling. Maybe he tried to 'persevere' with the device and it never worked as anticipated? Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/36ced875/attachment.htm From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 18:24:53 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:24:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: I just got my copy in today's mail and found that there is a nice article on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/15489256/attachment.htm From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 20:36:13 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:36:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/2008 12:25:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/0aa12f5d/attachment.htm From rjohns at woh.rr.com Sat Sep 20 20:38:00 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:38:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <003301c91b93$106d22a0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> I'll add my two cents, (Phennig). For what it is worth, the 1957 Sebring Team did not have any accommodation to relieve yourself. I don't know what the 1956 Lemans cars had, I saw them there but did not notice any added equipment for the purpose. The 1957 Factory cars at Sebring, if you are a TR history buff, were the 1956 Alpine Rally cars rebuilt. No significant modifications we introduced that I could observe. The driving shifts were three hours at Sebring and I think most would have not trouble with that length of time. I still drive 4 to 5 hours between stops and that is at age 76. Bob Johns - Original Message ----- From: "John Macartney" To: "'Robert Lang'" ; "MadMarx" ; "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the > story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of > the story calls his reputation into review!! > > Jonmac > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MadMarx" > > To: "'Robert Lang'" > > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > >> > >> > >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > >> > >> What are rolling hills? > >> > >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > >> > >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:15:21 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:15:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for people to fake stuff. By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of all the cars and what happened to them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/80936aec/attachment.htm From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:39:14 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:39:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Kas, That's an interesting perspective, as to me all this stuff is my business. The problem with doing what you love, is it all starts to blend together and then it is difficult to know when to stop. Today I cut the cage out of the GT6. Problem was, that even if it wasn't my job to cut that cage out and get that car done for the Mitty, I still would have done the same thing today! I need to know where all these cars are to invite them to Amelia and the Mitty, but I am also curious and want to know how many were built and where they are. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080920/e77c4e7e/attachment.htm From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 20 21:57:52 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:57:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 22:04:26 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:04:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <9D526A59517C4EA79F4C32F1B081A5AE@newcomputer> Arizona and a Spit! That is good enough for me. Second! Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greg Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:58 PM To: FOT LIST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 21 00:16:43 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:16:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <20080921061858.NBJH6526.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Greg, What's his email address - is it Dotts46 at aol.com (guessing from an email from Gil Jackson with the local Vintage group? I'll send him a welcome email from DCTRA and add him to our list too. At 08:57 PM 9/20/2008, greg wrote: >Group, > I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our >driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles >blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very >well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA >from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and >encouragement. Seconds? >Thanks, >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 21 05:17:30 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:17:30 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race - a *DEFINITIVE REPLY* from (almost) the horse's mouth :) Message-ID: <041401c91bdb$a39e7b30$0201a8c0@Bevan> Friends On the continuing saga of *how long can you last at the wheel?* I received a reply from Paul Richardson on this subject which is clearly exercising the minds of many :) Paul's reply surely generates further questions? 1. How could anyone safely and accurately *aim* into a Mayflower dipstick tube while changing gear and having to steer safely - anywhere on the Mille Miglia? 2. How fast is fast to guarantee 'blow back'? 3. How slow is slow to avoid embarrassment? 4. Anyone care to put these claims to the test and report their findings? Jonmac > Hi John > It's amazing how stories get dressed up. The facts are that the said 'pee > tube' was the idea of my fathers for the Mille Miglia road race of 1954. > The tube was made at the factory prior to the race by experimental engineer > Ray Henderson who adapted a Triumph Mayflower dip stick guide (funnel > shaped) for the business end. It is true that the pee tube had a tendency > to 'blow back' somewhat when the TR was at high speed, so it was only used > on slower sections. I've used a quote from dear old Ray Henderson about the > pee tube in an article I wrote for one of the TR mags or one of Frederic > Reydellet's books. I'll forward it when I find it. > Best wishes to all Paul From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 21 06:17:10 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai r-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 21 06:40:19 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:40:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D640B3.70302@141.com> You would save $58, 135.20! Now THAT'S a deal! ;) Susan :) Doug Mitchell wrote: > If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Susan Kahler > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > > > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai > r-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1682 - Release Date: 9/20/2008 10:24 AM > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Sep 21 07:15:56 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:15:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kas' reply to Tim (sorry, forgot to include this in my letter) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/08 11:25:01 PM, kaskas at cox.net writes: > You are a pretty cool guy to take away from your business and take on these > things.? I laud you for it Tim. (no, it will not be be me) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GRMTim at aol.com > To: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; FOT at autox.team.net > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars > > I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold > to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. > The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping > track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for > people to fake stuff. > > By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and > a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we > call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! > > I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of > all the cars and what happened to them. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > > > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/580b0047/attachment-0001.htm From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 21 07:39:25 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:39:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the trip to the Glen. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/4b427ef5/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:04 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: Yes that is Kit indeed, fascinating guy to talk to, but I don't think he made the run to the Glen. I really should sit him down and do an interview with him this yr. A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/79839f92/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: http://www.ovtc.net/1954alpinerally/index.html A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/167bbb91/attachment-0001.htm From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 21 09:56:39 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:56:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/1835e541/attachment.htm From stutzmans at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 12:42:41 2008 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:42:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: Message-ID: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> accd. to Graham Robson in " The Works Triumphs" The pee tube was in the 1954 Mille Miglia TR2. Gatso left his mark at the check points. Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: herald948 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/dd78aa21/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 13:49:39 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:49:39 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> References: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: It is very interesting that the discussion left the car specific side and went on to driver issues. As I said years earlier: Driver tuning makes you fast ..in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Sorry for my incomplete English. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/16e549d9/attachment.htm From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 21 14:11:00 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D6AA54.10000@dimebank.com> > but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Wait ... you mean Triumph competed in the Mille Miglia? I never realized that they counted as eligible for the Mille Miglia Storica (or whatever they've changed the name to this year)... From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 21 14:53:43 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:53:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 15:54:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:54:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Sep 21 18:07:37 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <842915.78645.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring?over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sun, 9/21/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com, "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:54 PM They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/eb7e5ab4/attachment.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 21 20:17:23 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:17:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A0 2D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I run. I think ARE sells them. - Tony Drews At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: >FOT, >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? >Ron Jacobs >Western Eagle Racing > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 21 20:21:59 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:21:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080921/9c42ab56/attachment-0001.htm From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 23:20:47 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:20:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? Thanks, John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/edc0d0e5/attachment.htm From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Mon Sep 22 00:13:17 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:13:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Message-ID: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI From elkhorn at core.com Mon Sep 22 04:17:16 2008 From: elkhorn at core.com (elkhorn at core.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <5412.198.208.159.17.1222078636.squirrel@newmail.core.com> ?????? I would like more info on ARE. ?????????????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/76cbadf5/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 04:38:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the XXXXing stewards (?) decision... Glen -----Original Message----- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 05:45:07 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:45:07 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220081145.15395.48D78543000A7B4B00003C232207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? How can Tony not already haven been a FOT???? SECOND! Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/3e9df38b/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:21:06 +0000 Size: 646 Url: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/3e9df38b/attachment.eml From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 22 05:47:01 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:47:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0 A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James >#116 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 06:03:02 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:03:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/b34a8d2e/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:50:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:50:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: Joe C That is "FEARFUL" with a strong disclaimer on "LEADER". FEARFUL INSTIGATOR.....may be more appropriate. There are some inaccuracies in the article as I failed to get back to author. Just read the parts you like. Joe A > I just got my copy in today?s mail and found that there is a nice article > on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. > > Joe C. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/107aea4f/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:59:32 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:59:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- I am from Iowa....I know. Pilots used to have a device called H.E.R.E. Human Element Range Extender. Unknow if ever used in racing applications. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/f6af3ce3/attachment-0001.htm From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 22 07:06:27 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:06:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43239629DCE2427B8E6AA17ED1CF596E@richardiipc> I think it's called a chain. The Japanese use it in their temple architecture to direct water flow by capillary attraction instead of gutters and downspouts. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/dab159ea/attachment.htm From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 22 08:11:28 2008 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Big Healy wheels Message-ID: A close friend of mine lost his home/garage recently due to fire. He did however, manage to salvage a set of '3000' disc wheels/hubs. (luckily his FV was outside in the trailer) He is located here in E. Colo., e-mail is rmvr53 at aol.com His name is Bill Fleming. Perhaps someone you know may be in need, or like a set? Sorry to bomb the list here this morning, felt it important we help a fellow vintage racer out. Thank You. Kev Lynch GT6 #6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/431b6251/attachment.htm From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 08:22:38 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Don Elliott wrote: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During > the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the > aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Ya gotta watch those ground effects thingies. They really can blow up in your face. > Back then, they didn't > wear full racing helmets, but goggles. Ya, they were manly men, for sure. >From the video interviwer's manual: when interviewing winners after long races, be sure to hold your breath (or pinch your nose if you're off-camera). :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:01:16 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:01:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> "Tony Garmey" . On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James > >#116 > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/8f79576b/attachment.htm From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 22 09:23:35 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:23:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by equipment"! ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 09:30:52 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:30:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think they'll reverse the decision. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the > XXXXing stewards (?) decision... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_mosley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 22 09:32:28 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:32:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Welcome new FOT member Message-ID: <48D7BA8C.30400@cyberspeedway.net> Dan, Welcome to the Friends of Triumph. The website is www.fot-racing.com We have a lot of info and support that I am sure you will find helpful. Greg Lund From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:44:07 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:44:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220844u2014bd4cte5eb680a3447dbab@mail.gmail.com> I have had good success with the Fidanza aluminum flywheelwith a simple modification. I had the holes enlarged and countersunk to take ARP Insert Washers[200-8563]. These provide a hardened steel support for the bolts and keeps them from enlarging the holes in the flywheel by "walking". You can see a picture of the flywheelwith the inserts and ARPbolts at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/250RebuildShotsFlywheel#5248867166626193810 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others > have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a > lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock > flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a > scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light > custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum > flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I > run. I think ARE sells them. > > - Tony Drews > > At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > >FOT, > >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? > >Ron Jacobs > >Western Eagle Racing > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/d4770f66/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:28:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:28:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: <094BEC18-64C3-4FA2-8B68-773155CF98C9@bnj.com> I suspect so as well, though their timing is monstrous. The hearing is before the Singapore GP, which means Hamilton will have to travel the day before practice if he appears. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think > they'll > reverse the decision. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:30:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:30:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8ABEB138-E501-4FE0-A1FA-B03EE7D8D2DC@bnj.com> Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:23 AM, Don Elliott wrote: > Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by > equipment"! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > They really do? > Learned something today. > > > - From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:36:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > "Tony Garmey" . > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage > Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/48d84b03/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 11:44:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:44:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. Message-ID: Babcock wrote: > Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than > cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. > > When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/318b855e/attachment.htm From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Mon Sep 22 11:57:41 2008 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels References: Message-ID: <02f801c91cdc$b6946090$32620143@your55e5f9e3d2> Gee, Gary, didn't know you knew what i looked like! Art d. ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: tony at tonydrews.com ; westerneagleracing at att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Flywheels Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1684 - Release Date: 9/22/2008 6:39 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/baa0a2d2/attachment.htm From Bill at hartproperties.com Mon Sep 22 12:00:18 2008 From: Bill at hartproperties.com (Bill Hart) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> Message-ID: I second that nomination Bill Hart From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:37 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: fot at autox.team.net; jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: "Tony Garmey" >. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/a6a8b826/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 12:24:14 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:24:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig > Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK > BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling > Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM > *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its > the full 45min. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en > > The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/267da300/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 22 12:29:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <149053.49817.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My neighbor had a Mexican workhand that was faster with a knife than I ever saw on the streets of N.Y. He would sneak up behind the piglet,?grab the hinds, have him flipped over, and the "boys" removed with his folding blade before you could blink. James and I prefered the rubber bands on the larger livestock because we could never get Arthuro to try and grab the bulls by the hind legs. I reckon he'd need a bigger knife. ? Famous quotes: Roy Synder in Jaws; "I think we're gonna need a bigger boat" --- On Mon, 9/22/08, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. To: Billb at bnj.com, 58tr3a at videotron.ca Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:44 PM Babcock wrote: Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than ? cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. ?The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. ?I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/ca76cf17/attachment.htm From harmug at us.ibm.com Mon Sep 22 12:40:40 2008 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ignition type questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I'm new to the FOT list, I was racing at the Glen Vintage event and a member, (thanks Marty Sukey) talked to me and now I've now discovered a great resource. I've been racing a 63 spitfire for 3 years now in the northeast in mostly with the SCCA Historic Racing Group but this year I bought some slicks and ran regional HP events too. I've been going through the car, freshening things up and getting it as reliable as a 45 year old LBC can be but now I'm at the stage of what to do next. The car's been around forever, it's been a race car since day 1. I heard from a previous owner, Dave Belden who raced it for 20+ years, that the importer made it a race car right off the boat to promote the new Triumph model. As far as I can tell, the first time it's been driven on the street was 2 weeks ago at the Glen during the recreation of the old race. You can see it on the video that was posted here, I'm the car still at the curb on the right as the cars are going through town. I broke a 1/2 shaft universal pulling away from the curb but that's another story. I'm looking at the ignition system, the car (1296 motor) came with a Delco distributor and a Crane Fireball electronic ignition box and Crane coil. One of the groups I race with doesn't allow crank fired systems so I'm forced to keep a distributor set up. I'd like to ask the collective wisdom here what would my best option be? The engine is moderately worked over, revs freely to around 7800-8000 RPM but the cam I have works best from 4500-7200 RPM. I've looked at Pertronix systems, going back to points (Single or Dual?) or keeping the Crane. I also bought a Crane CD box, with rev limiter that is going to be a winter install but I'm not sure if it's worth the electrical draw on the system. My main reason for the CD was the built in Rev limiter and easier starting when the engine is hot. I'm not looking for the ultimate engine package, I'll trade power for reliability (to a point) and running with multiple groups, often on the same weekend, limits me to one set up that will be acceptable to all. Any suggestions on how to keep this puppy sparking? thanks mike Old Fart Racing 63 Spitfire #7 G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer Automated Material Handling Equipment Engineering Services -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/d05ca4ac/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 13:13:48 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:13:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Good One!!! **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/61d4367d/attachment-0001.htm From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:14:13 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:14:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp a-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m osley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:37:28 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> Message-ID: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 14:54:37 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:54:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 15:08:19 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web site think that the appeal will not be successful. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 15:20:54 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:20:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the giggling. Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do 3 and only did 2. Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: Craig ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/1f62f427/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 22 16:06:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:06:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: At every drivers briefing they say: Stay between the white lines. Think of if this would have been a race at Monaco where the way is blocked in chicanes - no short cut possible - then Hamilton had to drive through that corner and wouldn't be able to overtake end of the following straight. I still think his move wasn't okay and the punishment is correct. From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 17:29:26 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:29:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Paging Steve Groh Message-ID: <092220082329.2698.48D82A560002BFBF00000A8A2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> Sorry everyone else. Steve, we forgot to exchange email addresses at The Glen. I have some pics of your car. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/ea60dabe/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 18:31:03 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221731i568cc91aj205e3ecd0e44b832@mail.gmail.com> Hey nothing wrong there. I swore a fair bit too ;) A. 2008/9/22 WILLIAM TOBIN > > > There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the > giggling. > Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do > 3 and only did 2. > Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. > Bill----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* Craig ; FOT > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. > I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. > > So it was an outstanding experience. > > As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. > > A. > > 2008/9/22 Craig > >> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK >> BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling >> Craig >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andre Rousseau >> *To:* FOT >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM >> *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video >> >> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but >> its the full 45min. >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en >> >> The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. >> >> A. >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/cca88fec/attachment.htm From susank at 141.com Mon Sep 22 18:44:24 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:44:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 22 19:06:36 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:06:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/af3471af/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 19:30:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:30:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane >> for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. > > > On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. > > I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a > trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) > down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two > seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday > night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and > describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the > rear. Interesting. > > Bill > > PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race > Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control > of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a > stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn > 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken > neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, > courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to > correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been > running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a > really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/dfb68d46/attachment-0001.htm From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 19:47:11 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> Message-ID: <35CBF46BE46848FF95DA688E588F5040@Bud> I am very sorry to hear this news...May God Bless Him... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America > This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: > > ***************************** > > I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America > this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing > community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an > incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell > bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- > right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the > process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run > for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment > point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. > > My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! > > Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a > Hans device let this be a warning. > > Jim Austhof > Red #1 MGB > > ***************************** > > Susan > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 19:48:19 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Eastlake 11 Message-ID: Hi, Sad news indeed about the crash and fatality... Stupid question of the day - what's an Eastlake 11? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjohns at woh.rr.com Mon Sep 22 20:00:33 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:00:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? Message-ID: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/3e9ede62/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tr2phill.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 348970 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/3e9ede62/attachment-0001.jpg From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 20:10:39 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: Message-ID: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visable and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tiedowns. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: susank at 141.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/ea232ae5/attachment.htm From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 20:38:16 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:38:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nominations and such Message-ID: <48D85698.5090901@bradakis.com> Okay, I think I've added everyone and am up to date on recent nominations. But I could be wrong, let me know if you didn't get this message. ( Gee, how many times have I said that over the years? ) For those of who who don't know much about this list and Team.Net in general, I'll give a basic rundown. About 20 years ago a small handful of folks interested in various automotive stuff started sharing their passions using what back then was a fairly new and unknown technology, email. As I was working in the Computer Science department at the University of Utah, the 5th site on the net, I agreed to coordinate some things and run a couple of mailing lists. In the intervening years Team.Net grew and grew, with various lists spawning off as traffic got busier and busier. It used to be run from a machine at the U of U, but traffic got a little too high and I ended up moving to a server of my own at home. Back in December of 1996 this FOT list came to be and has been growing ever since. Currently we have close to 300 addresses on the list. I still maintain things as best I can, but remember it is a volunteer thing, I don't get paid for this. I do, however, once or twice a year solicit donations to cover the out of pocket expenses involved with keeping things running. Check out the donate link below if you feel like rewarding me with a cold one for my efforts. Speaking of links below, I'll add in a pointer to Mordy's fot-racing web pages. Again, I think I've gotten all the newbies signed up. If you've nominated someone and they are not yet on the list, let me know. mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 20:57:02 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:57:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: > Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we > getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low- percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/b73bec06/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 21:26:43 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:26:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is winning, at least to me. It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to love. Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to read or write it. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/425a909f/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:35:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:35:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <091D21E4-FF81-4C68-9D6F-EE9D4563DB9B@bnj.com> It was in turn nine. I didn't see the accident, but from what I've been told his rear end slid out at the entrance to the turn, then hooked up and shot him into the wall. The front of the car is totally flat, as if he had run into an obstruction at 90 degrees, but that couldn't be, both because he's still with us, and because the car wound up down the track about 50 yards on the outside of the track. It was actually a glancing blow, as it has to be in that section of the turn, but taken straight on. The track was drying at the time, the rain had pretty much stopped. By the time group one (my group) went out the track was dry. I started from the back because of some confusion I suspect, and they sent the FV's out first in a split start. They had actually been faster in the rain, but the track was completely dry. I started dead last, was first after two laps, and had a nice run on a very green but predictable surface. Did 1:42 something, about three seconds off usual time, but respectable and Peyote felt wonderful. there just wasn't anyone to play with since Mike Malone wasn't there, Cameron Healy's Pooper had a broken rear spring, and Denny Hatch's Pooper wasn't there. I thought my top speed would be less with the bigger bump in the nose, but I was pushing 7000 RPM at least 200 yards before the turn one kink in the straight, so I had to lift. I think this little bugger will hit 140 with the right rear end, but I'm running a 3.7 now. Anyone know if there's a taller rear gear anywhere? Maybe a 3.5? On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > So sorry to hear about Jeff -- such a great car. What happened? > Wet?? Which wall/turn? > Chuck > > 2008/9/22 Bill Babcock > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/beb76909/attachment-0001.htm From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:38:10 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:38:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said Bill First, my deepest symapathies go out to go out to Dr. Hermons' family and friends. We have lost another of our own regardless of what he drove and how hard he was pushing it. We all have our own measure of " winning " and I can only hope the good doctor was leading in his own way when he went off. By the by, I got my HANS two weeks after we lost Uncle Jack. Jim Gray -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:57 PM To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net; susank at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/8d3356a7/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:39:55 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:39:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:46:25 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:46:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I couldn't agree with you more Gary. Everything you said is true, and everyone drives these cars at the limit they choose. But most of the folks I meet in racing--any racing--are trying to go as fast as they can. That means respecting the cars limits and their own limits. But they are still trying to go as fast as they can. The notion of 8/10 is that you go eight tenths as fast as you can. If you were doing that you wouldn't be trying to improve your lap times and you wouldn't say things like "at least for now". There are some people driving 8/10ths. But treating that as the norm is simply not realistic. Believe me, I don't race for trophies. If I did, I'd pick another venue. I know there are people who get on the track to parade their cars. I don't do that. Sounds like you don't either. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:26 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, > I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I > wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In > my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we > race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? > Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist > of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in > sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed > in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in > the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I > also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best > efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things > break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire > but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what > do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not > always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is > improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making > some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is > winning, at least to me. > > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race > with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. > No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On > the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my > feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very > best friends and doing something I have come to love. > > Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to > read or write it. > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/a731ee06/attachment.htm From quicktr4 at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 22:05:44 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:05:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/59515bae/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:58:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: <30FD7B90-91F1-422E-9B8A-F1229E356512@bnj.com> Good to hear from you buddy. Sorry about your car, glad you're OK. That was a nasty one. Let me know if you need anything. I have a TR4 frame up by my sport court, slowly turning back into iron ore. Yours if you want it. On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:05 PM, quicktr4 wrote: > I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the > hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 > really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very > uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. > when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or > 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i > hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some > device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong > advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent > all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. > Jeff Quick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: BillDentin at aol.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership > > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/5ff4bb2f/attachment.htm From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 22:08:45 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> > > I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at Wendover we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and just wanted a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. Sometimes they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. Touring was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited passing and such. In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking out what they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. What always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, but it didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of them, and they'd go into full chat mode. Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it easy, but when it came down to it they were RACING! mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 22:13:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:13:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> If you're a racer, you race. Some of my most memorable races have been practice sessions. I've never been on a track with Cameron Healy without a full on race taking place. Ever. I suspect we'd have at it with shopping carts if we ran into each other in Safeway. Undisciplined , I know, but that's the way it goes. The real reason I do most of my setup on a skid pad--no one to chase! On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> >> I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you >> race > When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at > Wendover > we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. > Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and > just > wanted > a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. > Sometimes > they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. > Touring > was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited > passing and such. > > In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking > out what > they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. > What > always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, > but it > didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of > them, and they'd go into full chat mode. > > Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it > easy, but > when it came down to it they were RACING! > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/47aa94a8/attachment-0001.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 22:31:02 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:31:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Thanks Bill. Not I don't parade mine and I do push it, for me. I just try to be as alert and aware as possible and in my case, not knowing the tracks that well, etc., that means taking it a bit easier and trying to stay out of the way of drivers like yourself who are much more experienced. I still have a blast regardless of where I finish but I will say that is usually not last. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/c925b2b6/attachment.htm From jibjib at att.net Mon Sep 22 22:46:44 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:46:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear about the crash Jeff, but I'm glad you are doing fine. Jack (Think the TR3 at cruise night in Covington) _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM To: Bill Babcock; BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080922/48c87a23/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:10:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:10:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Message-ID: To comment this. At the European tracks the flags are good visible (okay - except black flag). The corner workers are close to the track and they have lots of flags to show. I only know of one incident of overtaking at yellow since 2004 in our group. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von RACER BUD Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:40 An: Joe Curry; fubog1 at aol.com; kaskas at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:12:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:12:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> Message-ID: I'm happy! If I ever make my way to USA I won't starve because I always can order a Bratwurst. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: David Kettler [mailto:dkettler at powercom.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:43 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I was raised in Sheboygan, Wisconsin which is the Bratwurst capital of the world. It's also not far from Road America. Dave Kettler ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'FOT'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:16:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:16:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> Message-ID: Even driving at 8/10 is no insurance of having a crash. Things can break, other drivers can bring you in trouble. I?m facing to race on the N?rburgring this weekend, the most unforgiving track you can imagine with an average speed of 85-90 mph. Losing control there will hurt, maybe kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/e0a3dfda/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 07:49:53 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:49:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: In a message dated 09/22/2008 10:27:52 PM Central Daylight Time, GSFuqua1 at aol.com writes: > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a > lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a > parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were > to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I > would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to > love. > Good for you Gary. All good points. As a point of reference, let me add some info to my use of 'high speed parade'. It is a variation of a quote from Bob Tullius, who as Honorary Grand Marshall at an early ELVF, was asked what he thought about 'vintage racing'. He stepped on our toes and said something to the effect of...I don't think you should do it, and if you do, it should be more like a 'high speed parade' instead of real racing. Kind of hurt our feelings when he said it, but clearly he was influenced by his background, the risk involved, and safety issues. In the same question and answer period he was asked his favorite circuit after running at so many venues. I was surprised he said, "Brainerd". When asked why, again safety was the issue. He said, "Brainerd, while fast, is safe and forgiving." Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/c002a85a/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 08:40:36 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:40:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 23 08:42:17 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:42:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB277E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is this the FIA equivalent of saying "Well, if you don't know, I'm certainly NOT going to tell you!" ?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 23 08:52:52 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> In essence, they decided not to decide the case. "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the appeal submitted by McLaren." The text of the "opinion" can be found at: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 JR Hill Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > decision had been From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Sep 23 09:36:57 2008 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !!> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500> From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com> To: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied> > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case.> > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren."> > The text of the "opinion" can be found at:> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793> > JR Hill> > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com:> > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday> > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton> > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner.> > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a> > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible.> > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix> > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather> > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards'> > decision had been> > > _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/414c49aa/attachment.htm From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 10:56:19 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:56:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was "this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR's 'debris on the track yellow flag', ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race." Gary 62 TR4 From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/32e57eac/attachment-0001.htm From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 11:12:14 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:12:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Message-ID: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/1c0bcaa8/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 23 11:28:32 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:28:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, well, can't get too wrapped up in the politics and economics of the thing. I just watch the races. It's been a great year for that. On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Gary Horstkorta wrote: > I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well > connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA > penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow > flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the > points race.? > > Gary > 62 TR4 > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM > To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > > > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/b3f2f51c/attachment.htm From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 13:30:28 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:30:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c91db2$d7be0ab0$b1191718@computer> They would be doing their best to make a dollar out of the deal for themselves. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:12 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunda y's Si ngapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/d69fcd00/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 23 14:50:13 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <350468.58985.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is your friend insinuating that NASCAR uses the yellow flag to make races tighter or "fix" races? My GOD! That's blasphemy! At least we still have WWF wrestling; that's real. --- On Tue, 9/23/08, Gary Horstkorta wrote: From: Gary Horstkorta Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied To: "'Tony and Annie Garmey'" , spyderweb at uwalumni.com, fot at autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 11:56 AM I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race.? ? Gary 62 TR4 ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied ? FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/91248e44/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 15:04:50 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:04:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crank Scraper Orders-Manufacturing Status Message-ID: FoT For those you have crank scraper orders: I contacted I-J today and asked for a schedule. We all know that there have been delays. I have not cashed any checks sent to me, nor has I-J billed me beyond some material costs. If you have any urgencies, I will forward your schedule concerns. If you wish to change your order, please advise. Kevin puts a lot of time and thought and detail into these assemblies. (Jack & I decided that we could never follow his act) There is also an issue of a medical surgery that is pending, although it is not being used as an "excuse". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Here is what I received today for scheduling: Daniel C (separate customer from the group buy) has been providing a lot of help with the Crower crank scraper (three exchanges of templates). I have that pattern now so I will be making Bill B's two sets (Crower/Carillo and Moldex) and Dave T's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------- Today I will cut out Leo O's (TR6 2500 scraper) and Kevin L's (2000 GT6). I already have Dean T's cut out and am assembling it. All three will go out today. Note: Kevin L's order was picked up by someone else. I need to address that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Thanks, Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/79233075/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 23 15:57:59 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/6d538b5e/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:20:05 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:20:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Bill... You're absolutely right about tow points. It is difficult with some cars, like our Thunder Bolt and Talisman with their tilting bonnets. The Talisman has other issues in the rear that complicate things. We carry a loose strap with the T-Bolt, and have built a convoluting contraption for towing the Talisman. It works, but takes time to hook up. The Mini involved in the Eastlake incident at ROAD AMERICA last Friday had four tow hookup points. Two in the front and two in the rear. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 9:11:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, william.tobin3 at verizon.net writes: Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visible and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tie downs. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: _BillDentin at aol.com_ (mailto:BillDentin at aol.com) To: _susank at 141.com_ (mailto:susank at 141.com) ; _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? _Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) . ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/cbaac3af/attachment-0001.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:48:40 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:48:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: _Kas Kastner_ (mailto:kaskas at cox.net) To: _for at autox.team.net_ (mailto:for at autox.team.net) Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/c70ca554/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 17:29:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:29:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] "UNCLE JACK" wins at Targa Newfoundland Message-ID: The Driving Team of Hopkins & Hughes won the Targa Newfoundland outright for the second year in a row. (Can they threepeat in 2009?) A 1969 BMW 2002, aka as 'WOODSTOCK', sported an UNCLE JACK decal. This seems appropriate to his memory. He won it all in LIFE. Oh yes, Sunday, the 21st would have been Jack's Birthday, too. JHA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/cc44ef79/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 18:11:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:11:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: FoT, There was a creative collaboration between The Vintage Triumph Register and the Friends of Triumph....largely thanks to Blake Discher, President of VTR. These posters were provided free of charge to Registered VTR members and the FOT who were at the Glen. The poster was a huge hit and many of them were signed. A keeper in any case. It is 12 x 18, a nice size to frame and very Period Looking with a Le Mans TRS. It is devoid of any commercial logos and such, by design. I brought a few back with me. I promised to hold one for a few folks, that were unable to attend, but of course I dont remember who they were. Please contact me if you want one. If you want one, it would be good to send me $10.00. That ought to cover a mailing tube and postage. It might take me awhile to send as I am backlogged with work, but I will do my best. Thanks Blake....I hope we can collaborate more with VTR in the future. Since we dont have a formal organization, perhaps a VTR membership is in order for the FOT. FOT Gary Horstkorta and others have been contributing to the TVT Magazine, edited by our FOT Mike Cook, so there is a fair amount of FoT Content, you might enjoy. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/c3636bf5/attachment.htm From timmurph at fastbytes.com Tue Sep 23 18:49:51 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:49:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/5fa8ab27/attachment.htm From tr3a58 at verizon.net Tue Sep 23 18:58:31 2008 From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: <2147528.552201222217911058.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/3441db52/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 19:22:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:22:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/b9cd6066/attachment.htm From Herald948 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:24:38 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:24:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/514de20b/attachment.htm From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:46:43 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:46:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: Hi Joe, The radiator that I used for years in my TR4 was from ( I think) a 1967 Mustang. It was the "Heavy Duty Desert" radiator, and I am not certain what other years it would fit. The outlet and inlet were good, and I had to make a couple of simple brackets. As I recall it cost me $89.00 from NAPA, and my TR never saw the far side of 190 degrees ever again. Cheap, simple, and very effective, it filled up the space quite well. It cooled so well that I never bothered to build any shrouding around it! Good luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:25:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/ab638c79/attachment-0001.htm From smockracer at charter.net Tue Sep 23 21:26:05 2008 From: smockracer at charter.net (Paul Smock ) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race References: Message-ID: <6AADCFD5D1FB4BE29EA90EF279076D17@fred> I will be there with #190 and Sally with her new knee.GOOD THING. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: kaskas at cox.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/468e06bc/attachment.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 23 19:12:23 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:12:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's References: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <00a201c91de2$9a1e9640$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/8c6c2c19/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Tue Sep 23 22:13:44 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:13:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080923/9f7e807e/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 06:25:57 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:25:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: Jim, Lot's of us are members of the VTR and also our local Triumph clubs which are for the most part Chapters of the VTR. I believe one of the requirements for becoming a chapter is to hold an annual event, which we seem to be doing with the Kastner Cup. Although it wouldn't help the autocrossers and hill-climbers on the list, any additional promotion that would result from an "FOT Chapter" of the VTR putting more Triumphs out to race for the Kastner Cup gets my vote. On the other hand I think there is some provision for a monthly newsletter and as a loosely organized group with no dues, rules etc. I don't think we want that kind of obligation. Speaking of annual events, the Texas All British Car Day, my local club's (Hill Country Triumph Club) annual event is this weekend near Austin Texas. We are in our 18th year and this show was created specifically to meet the VTR requirements. If you are going to be in the area we have a rallye Saturday afternoon and a participant's choice car show Sunday. We had 144 cars last year. Contact me directly for info. As always I'll be bringing my racecar to promote vintage racing. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:14 PM To: Herald948 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/c1313632/attachment-0001.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:16:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:16:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals - Decals in the mail today. Message-ID: FOT, For those that sent requests & SASE for the Uncle Jack Memorial decals, I have them sorted out and ready to send today. Those contributions from the mailings and at Watkins Glen will be bundled together with the original envelopes and sent to Aunt Frances and Tony, shortly. Sorry for the delay.....I am catching up on the loose ends. Thanks to everyone for all of the interest and generosity on behalf of the Drews Family. What a non-group of Friends! Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/09574da6/attachment.htm From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 24 09:35:49 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Jim wrote: > From: Jim > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > To: Herald948 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net, bdischer at blakedischer.com > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:13 AM > Andy, > > To what point? > > When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 > I'd asked a friend > familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. > I was told of > one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on > the side curtain > TRs. > > My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda > confirmed that idea. > > To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post > sidecurtain cars went into > the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the > TR7/TR8s. > > There are members on this list who are die hard VTR > members. There are > folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about > the VTR. At > best. > > So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? > And what are the > requirements, and dues? > > > I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I > won't like what I see > though. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser > and a barn full of projects. > > _____ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM > To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time, > tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: > > > Joe; > You might be surprized as to how many FOT members > are also members of > the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in > the beginning. > Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and > yes, National > Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car > Nut". > > Dean Tetterton > > ==AM== > Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is > 113. ;-) > > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT > members so inclined: > perhaps we could become some sort of "Special > Chapter" or "Affiliate" of > VTR? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's > more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying > Circus (22) > > Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The > Vintage Triumph > Register: http://www.vtr.org > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) > and Triumph Herald > Database: http://triumph-herald.us > > > > > _____ > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> > calculators. > ____________________________________________________________ > Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/_______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:40:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:40:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Thanks to Joe Richards, Family, Friends and Robert Smith - TS1 LO Message-ID: I'd like to take a moment to thank all above....and more below. The weekend at the Village and Watkins Glen International was greatly enhanced due to the participation of the TR2 TS1LO. Thanks to Joe & Dottie for their involvement in perserving this important Triumph Hertage. Special Thanks to Robert Smith who made this happen. Robert made this happen at no small cost and risk. But what a send off to Hawaii! Huge appreciation goes to The Village of the Glen who did an outstanding job of Honoring TS1 LO. Posters, Programs, The Gary Horstkorta Article, and a Commissioned Oil Painting...... Thanks to Classic Motorsports & Moss for the use of their facilities at the track to secure TR2 TS1 LO during the evenings. Thanks to SVRA for their use of TS1 as the Honorary Pace Car driven by Robert & 'Navigated' by Kas Kastner for the Triumph Feature Race. I am sure I am overlooking some folks. Anyway, please feel free to respond with any relevent comments. Regards, Joe Alexander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/0f4eb9e8/attachment.htm From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 09:40:58 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:40:58 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. Steve Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 09:57:05 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Yikes. I know those things are pretty, but they are a leak waiting to happen, I hate brake fluid on stuff. If it was anything but brake fluid I would suggest the standard rusty tank cure--an internal coating. But I'm not sure what coating would be certain to hold brake fluid. You pull the whole thing off, block off the outlet with a fitting and pressurize the tank while it's full of colored water and find your leak, then solder it. An easy way to pressurize the tank is with a pressure bleeder system. If you can't find a cap to fit you could make one with a rubber stopper. You only need a pound or so of pressure to turn a dribble leak into a spurt. Especially if the fluid is thin like water. On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:40 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister > that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the > tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. > > Steve > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/26875d59/attachment.htm From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 24 10:20:22 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 10:28:06 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 10:41:34 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:41:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 10:52:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:52:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1E79BEA1-A0A3-4697-A326-9B9C5C47D4D2@bnj.com> If you are a good fabricator it's a relatively easy thing to build. You can get an adjustable bias pivot from Tilton and do a nice job. Tilton also has nice girling-pattern master cylinders with remote or integrated reservoirs. If you build a bias-adjustable system I suggest you make both cylinders the same size so you can share a spare rebuild kit between them. Some master cylinders have residual pressure valves already installed. Make sure you take that out for the clutch or you'll toast your thrust bearings. Don't ask how I know that. Peyote's box is home-made and has worked well for eons. You can also build one without the adjustable pivot and just make up a selection of bars with varied ratios for front to rear bias. On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:41 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for > 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine > before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake > master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc > setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc > setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus > shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still > extremely safe? > ------Original Message------ > From: Kramer, Robert > Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual > circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall > find. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > > >> and find your leak, then solder it. > > That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's > soldered > together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So > bringing > one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder > joint and > allow it to pull apart, etc. > > I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. > > Randall > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/0094763c/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 11:28:40 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:28:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c91e6a$fd41e2d0$74513542@jrg> Doug, It was VTR. When I talked to the officer about joining they were more than happy to take my membership dues... when I asked about what VTR did all I heard about was the National Convention and Concourses/shows. Maybe I had selective hearing, but I wanted to hear about driving events (rallies, etc). So I joined just a local chapter (affiliated with VTR of course) and derive enough benefits from that membership. I'm also a member of NASS and there was an attempt to get NASS affiliated with VTR. VTR never gave a compelling reason for the association... just seemed to be kind of a "hey, I'm a Triumph club and *you're* a Triumph club, lets get together". The attempt failed as VTR never agreed to pay NASS for the privelage of being allowed to be assocatied with NASS. Or something like that. ;) I look forward to details on what exactly a "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR entails. Cheers, Jim Dallas 76 DM autocrosser and too many other projects. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mitchell [mailto:dmitchel at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:36 AM To: Herald948 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4t16llChFXmXY2kDAO0U8O7cFEuMtXr1uP0OY2tFmj23CgXG/ From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 13:00:31 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:00:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I went with the UK set-up because I was restore a car raced in the 60's and I knew it would look the part. I guess it was Revington's and the exchange rate was a lot better then. My previous car, a TR4 hada TR6 master cylinder and it worked fine. Of course it was not bias adjustable and it required some reinforcing of the sheet metal mounting area. That may be the easiest route. -----Original Message----- From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net [mailto:colordog.1 at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:42 AM To: Kramer, Robert; fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 24 14:06:11 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:06:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <004001c91e80$fde302d0$6501a8c0@LatitudeD530> When I first read the 8/10ths comment, I assumed it related to some kind of vintage rule about slowing by that amount in the proximity of an off-course car, or something similar. It simply never occurred to me that there is an assumption that vintage racing is to be carried out at a such a reduced level. I suppose the fraction refers as much to effort as it does to speed, but using our usual measure of speed, 8/10ths means you are adding around 20 seconds to a typical 90 second lap time. I know that some of us (in our younger days) have been known to be susceptible to the dreaded "red mist," but at the other extreme, if I were driving at anything resembling an 8/10ths pace, I'd be a little concerned that I could potentially overlook something like a yellow flag. I'm a firm believer that for myself, as my speed and adrenaline go up, so does my focus, awareness and attentiveness to the serious task at hand. Obviously there is a point (and this is the red mist territory) where the desire to get past the car in front of you can preclude the ability of one's brain to see much else, but I'm clear that vintage events are not the place for that. Not many racing venues today are for that matter, although there have been a number of drivers (Nigel Mansel comes to mind) who've been richly rewarded for just such behavior. DT ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; susank at 141.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/7416b050/attachment.htm From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 16:16:43 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:16:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service Message-ID: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/0cc34f49/attachment.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Wed Sep 24 13:40:03 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: Message-ID: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/e1c5b758/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 16:43:27 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:43:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/a89508ed/attachment-0001.htm From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 17:00:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:00:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Jonmac, Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? The Internet does have different effects. On the one hand it does make it easier to FIND local clubs. 10 years ago in Dallas we'd have people walk up during a show and be amazed that there is a Dallas club devoted to Triumphs. As you point out, having information "freely given" does make some people feel less urgency to join a club to get answers to the mysteries posed by the elusive "Stan Part". As part of Allexperts I've been advising people on how to fix their Triumphs. My usual advice? Look at the VTR website for vendor information, and look at the VTR website for local chapter information, as a way to hook up with other owners. I also do strongly advocate picking up a Bentley manual for their car, instead of relying on some idiot on the internet. Wish I got a commission from RB. I think the US clubs are starting to hit a balance point. The "original" unmolested cars are either ratty or gone. The "restored" toys are still out there, although not driven anywhere as often at they were when new. Most of the people with restored cars are aware of the different clubs and I suspect that when the cars are sold that information is also passed along. The new owners might not take note.. until something breaks and they're told by the suppliers that it's "NLA" new. Then they'll find the clubs again. Some of the race cars will be "barned".. or put out to rust like the side curtain car in NJ. Some more of the ratty unmolested cars will find their new lives as race cars. As I understand it, the 1997 VTR National in Dallas was the first to have a separate concours class for "prepared" cars. Or was I just sunstroked from running the Autocross that week? I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ Wanna lose weight? Weight Loss Programs that work. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tK0SsK9n6LkTvyKdM7PPU9nkmPDtnTck07Kqvz4xpGXufc0/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/58bb46b7/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 18:10:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:10:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: > Andy Mace wrote: > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so > inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or > "Affiliate" of VTR? > > I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially > summarised as follows: > > 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) > and because of that, there should be room in your local or national > club to accommodate your usage preference. > 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners > are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club > memberships > 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast > custodians and will need to have 'a home' > 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my > perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this > 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base > is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be > viable as heretofore. This begs the question > 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable > eventuality? > 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club > membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already > known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent > > With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates > to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." > Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide > 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the > internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. > > Rant off > > Jonmac > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/e4b48d9d/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 19:10:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:10:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/2b5840cf/attachment-0001.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 19:32:47 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:32:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A > Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've > kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage > Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous > emails...... > The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! > Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's > REALLY the way it is.!..... > > Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way > To Tell..... > Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very > often..DO NOT RACE....... > > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/b3a0479e/attachment.htm From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 24 19:36:15 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:36:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: _Bill Babcock_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) To: _John Macartney_ (mailto:standardtriumph at btinternet.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) ; _bdischer at blakedischer.com_ (mailto:bdischer at blakedischer.com) Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) _http://www.fot-racing.com_ (http://www.fot-racing.com/) Fot mailing list _Fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:Fot at autox.team.net) _http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins _Billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) 503.936.7660 _www.bnj.com_ (http://www.bnj.com/) Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal _Bill at kenalu.com_ (mailto:Bill at kenalu.com) _www.kenalu.com_ (http://www.kenalu.com/) blog: _www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog_ (http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/b552d018/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 24 19:42:10 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:42:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080925014414.XBDT6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> I very much appreciate my wife's understanding. We will all go in our own time. Be it on track, driving to the Super market, watching TV (that happened to an Uncle of her's last month) or asleep in your bed. She had very little concern when our son started racing karts at 9 (he's 16 now) because of the precautions taken and once he demonstrated sufficient skills she had no more concern. Safety gear (suit, helmet, etc...) and the fact that there are the wonderful corner workers and EMT's on site. Nothing like that available to him riding his bike or skateboard in the neighborhood. From dos_gusanos at msn.com Wed Sep 24 20:11:53 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:11:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/ec39233f/attachment.htm From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 24 21:22:53 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:22:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/43481345/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:18:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80aNzGXgpDIvE9AxeUSLkHBoTWezdCTAgnr8LS5ESecs3o/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/0a51e896/attachment-0001.htm From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:30:41 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:30:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <002c01c91eb6$b5a80b60$455d3542@jrg> Ultimately vintage race groups are going to look at grid numbers. If numbers (read $$$) fall then it's time to accept more modern cars. The group I ran with in the mid-90s evidently had trouble filling grid spots. So it was a "run what ya brung" kind of mentality. Once the sport got poplular they could afford to enforce vintage rules.. to the point that they're about the strictest vintage group around. They've starting cutting off the Lotus 7 copies as it was a means of also cutting off all the AC Cobra copies. So, if they're allowing cars without history to race.. there's always another Spitfire or TR6 lurking out there (my barn is full of them ;) ) to keep the '72 and older grid full. On the flip side.. if they enforced a history requirement on vintage racing... how many of us have cars with sufficient history to keep running? So... unless you can convince your local racing group to start accepting Yugo YV1s... keep looking at the pre-73 vintage legal car projects. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:23 PM To: 'Kramer, Robert'; 'John Macartney'; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPNdwsU8sLwd8w4M94LqflMy8jnTaVWm8HVwQQn4GyfSQ/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/f11ea604/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:53:09 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:53:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Message-ID: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/3e42c09d/attachment-0001.htm From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:54:20 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:54:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: David W. Riddle ; fot Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/de611634/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:56:56 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:56:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <106933AE6DA04673A7F47C49BD4E79B9@Bud> Terrific Stuff Steve...We are what we are! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/ce0d8b0d/attachment-0001.htm From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:58:35 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:58:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <58BF5375715D4671B367DADB5FFD1C10@Bud> Wooohoo..YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:32 PM Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/45726d1e/attachment.htm From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 21:00:28 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:00:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> References: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> Message-ID: <48DAFECC.4010909@verizon.net> Most people just don't get it. It ain't how you die that matters, it's how you live. Kurt O. RACER BUD wrote: > YEAH BABY! > Racer Bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* dos_gusanos at msn.com > *To:* David W. Riddle ; fot > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH > > > > My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far > have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know > people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week > I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus > murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate > the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. > Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member > of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered > with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck > me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 > and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was > in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from > '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to > converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine > the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, > in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out > gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every > bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium > large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 24 21:06:00 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:06:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 12:14:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, britbits at netzero.com writes: To what point?... There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. ==AM== I wasn't seriously proposing anything, just kinda tossing out the idea since I understand there's been recent talk about expanding such affiliations in VTR. Blake and other current members of the Board would be the ones to talk more about it. Following "traditional" Chapter guidelines as per VTR's Constitution and Bylaws, it would actually "require" little more than at least 10 members of the group also being current VTR members. What would it gain FoT? Probably very little, particularly since the most formal aspect of FoT is its informality. ;-) But it might gain VTR more; I don't know.... In another post, you wrote: "I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take." That recognition has been there in VTR for quite some time now. As you note, there are "prepared" categories in the Concours at National Conventions as started in 1997. Our own Joe Alexander has served as the "Racing" vehicle consultant for VTR, listed right there in the magazine with all of us other Triumph model-specific "experts"! In recent years, coverage of FoT-related events and cars has been quite good in _The Vintage Triumph_ magazine. Maybe all that's more than enough, rather than make any FoT members uncomfortable by, in any way, formalizing the organization by virtue of a stronger and more official connection with a group such as VTR? Heck, I'm getting to the point where I tend to follow the philosophy of Groucho Marx regarding organizations, in that at best I'm wary of joining most groups that might welcome me as a member! :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/b1c0ef67/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 21:16:59 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Holy sh#t, that was beautiful. With a little editing that could well be my new toast, or maybe I'll save it for my funeral (hopefully quite some time from now). We all know death possible in our game. Nonetheless, we endure. Our loved ones know the possibilities, but they allow us our crazy assed efforts to win, because they know it's part of who we are. So pull on the nomex, pay homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:36 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > Hi Bud, > > I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. > > We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable > possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. > > Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try > not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It > could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives > have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They > still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than > they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... > > Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could > happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. > > So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most > won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll > just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/4a884c30/attachment.htm From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 23:04:56 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:04:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to the pan. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM To: REK46 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 23:23:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:23:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <5211510A-4051-44E3-BD07-063B13287122@bnj.com> Not really. If you have too much flow, for example if you use a big line instead of a restricted one, then the oil won't drain fast enough. So don't do that. A big line will also rob pressure and volume from the bearing, which need the oil a lot more. Supplemental oiling is meant to keep the shaft and rocker arm bushings in good shape. But they are relatively cheap parts that can be easily replaced. On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:04 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that > if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM > To: REK46 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080924/121bd64f/attachment-0001.htm From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Wed Sep 24 23:29:58 2008 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:29:58 GMT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 23:39:26 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Message-ID: <004b01c91ed1$1390e1b0$14523542@jrg> Hey, ain't no death happening here. We drive Triumphs.. by definition we are IMMORTAL! Or some such stuff. I've taken more risks on my daily drives to work than I ever took on a race track. And had more accidents (1) in that daily drive than I ever had at speed on a race track. But again.. if it ain't fun.. why do it? Call it what you will. Making a corner you didn't think the car could make. Beating a lap time that you thought was unbeatable. Getting past (fill in the blank) when you thought a pass was impossible where you tried it. Sure, there's a risk involved. Breathing air risks inhaling toxic crap on a daily basis. But if the reason you took the risk was just to prove you could... well, that's wimpy. If you took the risk because you enjoyed it (and survived)... that's classic. So, puleeeze, do not speak to me of death on a race track. Talk to me instead of risks taken, sucessfully overcome. And occassionally, chances taken that did not work. If you want to obsess about death.. I do not want to be on the same race track as you. I prefer living, thank you. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:53 PM To: britbits at netzero.com; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/83144ac7/attachment.htm From Catpusher at aol.com Thu Sep 25 00:30:36 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:30:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Humor Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 10:24:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Subject: Supplimental oil feed to head After returning from an involuntary trip to Vietnam, I raced Nationals for 25 years; are the above subjects related? lol ps, off the net for a couple of weeks. Hardy **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/4ca73e63/attachment.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 02:53:00 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:53:00 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Message-ID: <020601c91eed$a6797570$0201a8c0@Bevan> Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? I'm advocating that Triumph clubs as a whole should be able to accommodate all Triumph enthusiasts, regardless of how those enthusiasts use their cars. So Yes, I'd be delighted if VTR could find a slot for FoT within its overall structure. But then, I don't know the inner workings of VTR, I live in the UK - and I sure don't want to get involved in what some might say are 'politics' :::))) Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/82e95588/attachment-0001.htm From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 03:03:59 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:03:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/595faac5/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:22:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:22:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head... again In-Reply-To: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> References: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8CAED075AB5F128-162C-94@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Like said in my first reply to the original poster, and has been mentioned by others, you need to restrict the amount of oil so as not to fill the rocker box,. If you are sucking it down the intakes, check stem/guide clearance and/or fit stem seals. Again, it is very simple to let a piece of plexiglass into an old cover so you can actually SEE how much oil is getting to the top end. Another benefit to doing this mod is that it ensures a good supply of oil to run down to the cam & tappets. Many of these engines suffer from lack of oil to the top-end & this results in heavy wear to not only the rocker gear, but the cam & tappets, almost always on the front most cylinders. Having been into one or two of these engines over the last fourty years... I see a real benefit from doing this. Or OTOH it may be a waste of time & $$... JMNSFHO, Glen -----Original Message----- From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net To: Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; cak at dimebank.com Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 1:29 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:33:41 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:33:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Message-ID: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. HTH Glen link to full text, kinda long- http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD To: Bill Babcock ; John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 9:10 pm Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept? kinda'?Quiet about the subject ..Regarding? Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things?as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... ? Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the? word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... ? Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belo ng to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a?truly?great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about?parliamentary?procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic.? I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but ? unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part.? FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought.? On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? ? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: ? 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent ? With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all."?Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. ? Rant off ? Jonmac ? ? ?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 25 04:15:48 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:15:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> John Macartney wrote: > Bill Babcock wrote: > You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. > Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones > that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library > (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment > here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a > claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants > about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to > decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. > > Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to > them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter > Motor Appreciation Society" > > FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--*perish the thought*. > > Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR > isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a > democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I > don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep > foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels > association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as > well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one > of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but > because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America > should copy. > > Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... > > Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/10179eef/attachment-0001.htm From jaboruch at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 07:32:23 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.com (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:32:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <20080925.093223.210.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> I used the mounting kit for Weber's and some longer studs. The kit has the o-rings mounted to an aluminum plate and has the rubbery spacers to hold the carbs snug to the manifold. I just had to elongate a couple of the holes in the o-ring plate and the plate will slide right over 2 diagonally opposing studs. I used a little Hylomar on the o-rings as a little sealant. Joe(B) -- "BOB KRAMER" wrote: All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body.Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PMSubject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Shop now for huge discounts on quality surveillance cameras. Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijltMADfJAQzpYWuALtmTzhPjswvNZrZ4ifex2oCVORq3upkO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/96e30785/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 09:25:27 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <28ACC2EF-2D16-4307-8C85-497176AAA988@bnj.com> That's a really fine piece of work, and it should probably be read on a yearly basis about the same time you get your physical. I don't normally consider myself obsessed with death, but rather with living life well, and that includes a fair amount of risk. I have to rationalize that risk against all the other aspects of my life that I treasure. I believe that I race the way Burt describes. Unfortunately more than just a few friends of mine who are no longer with us also took those risks, and behaved well, as Burt describes. All are gone too soon, some forty years ago, some this year. I lost two good friends this year, who were doing things I love to do in the way I love to do them. I think about them every day. I still do all the things I love, but I miss my friends. On Sep 25, 2008, at 2:33 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. > I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. > HTH > Glen > link to full text, kinda long- > http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html > > -----Original Message----- > F From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 25 10:02:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:02:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Grand Prix Festival-The Legends Speak FoT Message-ID: FOT: More well deserved thanks...to....Kas Kastner, Ed Diehl, Bob Johns, John Macartney: The Legends Speak. The FOT was well represented and they held the audience attention for more than an hour. Brian Redman was there, too, but decided he was unecessary to the success of the program and quickly passed the baton. See note from Committee Chair, Lew Durland, below: > Joe, > Thank you so much for all you did to make The Legends Speak a very > successful event. We had a record turnout for our event, and all the speakers were > great. I greatly enjoyed meeting John Macartney and hearing his humorous > stories from his days at Triumph as well as his very sobering personal tale of > PTSD. Bob Johns spoke fondly of his racing at Sebring in 1957. He and and his > wife were very friendly and I enjoyed speaking with them immensely. Kas > provided a great view from the technical and managerial perspective, and it was > great to see Ed Diehl again and to meet his wife Linda this time. > > Thank you so much for arranging and bringing the speakers for this event. > And thank you for keeping after me. All in all, it was a success. I heard > many compliments and good comments. > > Thanks again for your invitation to stop up at the Triumph paddock. > Unfortunately, I ended up having other commitments to which I had to attend during > the rest of the weekend, so I never got back up to the track. We hope you can > make it back next year. > > Lew > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/97a2bfd6/attachment.htm From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 25 11:01:24 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:01:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race In-Reply-To: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> References: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAED477A30E2C0-11F8-D48@webmail-de16.sysops.aol.com> Yes, Mike and I will be there.? Allen Weins and Jerry Alford as well. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 2:57 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October? 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/6d8f2a3f/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 25 12:49:15 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:49:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/5a219e0c/attachment.htm From jsnook at wcnet.org Thu Sep 25 14:09:19 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:09:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> Message-ID: <9D440054696D4EA7A853440DA0EB12EA@JeffsNotebook> I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: Gt6steve at aol.com ; budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1688 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:29 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/680fbd3c/attachment-0001.htm From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 23:34:20 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:34:20 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <022e01c91ed0$5cc03120$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Looks like a little spoiler on there, doesn't it, Jack W.? ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Johns To: FOT team Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/d2acf0bb/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 15:06:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:06:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 12:05:36 AM Central Daylight Time, jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > Jim... I don't remember the particular fix for that, but it reminded me of Donnie Sopp and his Spitfire. He had an engine leak he'd spent months if not years trying to fix. Unsuccessful, he finally developed a gutter and down spout system to deal with it. True story. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/209e9971/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 16:12:59 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:12:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: > I resemble that remark!! > > Jeff Snook > > Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/ee95e63f/attachment.htm From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 16:34:48 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01c91f5e$ebe85ab0$c3b91010$@racer@comcast.net> Bill: I concur. One of the best races I've had was with a good friend of mine, he in his Alfa GTV and me in my TR4. We raced for a whole session, as fast as we could , nose-to-tail, side-by-side, swapping positions but we did so respecting each other's space, no unsafe maneuvers, just good, clean racing. Of course it helps to know who you're racing with, it makes a world of difference when you have confidence the drivers around you won't try any unsafe moves. One of the practices our club preaches is "get to know the other drivers in your group". The club also puts a letter G for Guest or X for Rookie on the rear of a car which helps experienced drivers ID new cars out on the track. 10/10ths racing can be fun and safe.if you race with your head and not your foot. Gary From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:13 PM To: jsnook at wcnet.org; kaskas at cox.net; Gt6steve at aol.com; budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/2d7d860f/attachment.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Sep 25 17:15:07 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:15:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Message-ID: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/824c3986/attachment-0001.htm From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:21:31 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service In-Reply-To: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> References: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> Message-ID: There is a cell tower on the Lime Rock premises, it is Cingular/ATT which I have. Works great. Perhaps (I don't know) there is a roaming agreement for T-Mobile as they use GSM technology ATT uses also. My friend has Verizon and says service is ok in certain areas of the paddock near big bend, perhaps in other areas also. Verizon uses CDMA technology as does Sprint. He had Sprint previously and it was not good at Lime Rock but that was a few years ago. NASCAR and Grand-Am visit Lime Rock each year and last I knew NEXTEL worked also, at least during their events. Perhaps since NEXTEL and Sprint merged Sprint service is better (Sprint and NEXTEL use different technologies). Are you planning on next weekend VSCCA event? I'll be there somewhere! (what car?) Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:17 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1690 - Release Date: 9/25/2008 7:05 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/f1eefa06/attachment.htm From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:23:32 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:23:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 17:45:58 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message starts getting through to people... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let > them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the > weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper > official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm > also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, > after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm > about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the > weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, > threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard > with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to > sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression > took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning > warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful > of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one > douchebag move and you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:46:29 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/7781fa72/attachment.htm From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:50:48 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:50:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> Message-ID: <43BB6E2B-F9AA-4CCA-B7B8-7BE78218BE80@earthlink.net> I don't know if any corner worker saw it and I didn't report it, or go talk to the guy and say, WTF? I probably should have. Getting to this race was a big personal goal after some tough times. I was elated that the car worked so well and didn't want a confrontation with a jerky driver. BTW, the new Uncle Jack axles were in the car too, for the first time. ~Steve On Sep 25, 2008, at 4:45 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In > fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, > and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message > starts getting through to people... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" > > To: "FOT" > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This >> meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, >> let >> them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the >> weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper >> official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm >> also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, >> after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and >> I'm >> about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the >> weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left >> and >> moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >> threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing >> hard >> with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to >> sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression >> took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning >> warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful >> of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one >> douchebag move and you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From spreiss at verizon.net Thu Sep 25 02:45:47 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:45:47 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c91eeb$1b25a6d0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I find it amazing that Phil Hill could have taken all those marvelous photographs while at the same time competing at the top of the heap. That takes a LOT of depth as a human being, and a huge amount of self confidence. Anyone have the book yet? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark W. Nicholls To: 'FOT team' Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/3580bbde/attachment-0001.htm From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 18:19:51 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:19:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/e910457d/attachment.htm From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 25 18:44:19 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:44:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Porter To: John Macartney Cc: Bill Babcock ; fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT John Macartney wrote: Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. Michael Porter Roswell, NM ----------------------------- As both an FOT and VTR member, I say the current relationship between FOT and VTR is just fine. Each addresses a different set of objectives and goals. I was VTR president for 8 years and I think VTR, as a club, does a great job doing what it does. So does FOT. The trouble with just the concept of a formal affiliation is that it usually ends up looking like one entity is then subservient to the other.....and I don't think FOT or VTR wants that. Just my 2 pence. Cheers, Bill Sohl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/b5976c9b/attachment.htm From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 18:54:30 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/fb927b76/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 19:04:45 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:04:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:16:40 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:16:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <073D6A0404F24F44A57B3D2977B78146@Bud> what's the 'R' word? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: "'Steven Belfer'" ; "'FOT'" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days > of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant > I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool > so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I > needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to > the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to > the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap > time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made > me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to > get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:18:01 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cwn74 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/134d6e06/attachment.htm From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 19:33:28 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/865452c7/attachment.htm From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 20:00:02 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:00:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Video/250K Message-ID: <092620080200.18611.48DC42220005A8C5000048B322007614380E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Was that a perfect downshift by Tony going into turn 10, or was that 11?? Also,some good footage of the Peyote. Out of forty or so TR's, didn't anyone have an in-car video for the feature race? Any other footage out there of races or re-enactment? By the way, if you happen to notice the two lenghty skid marks on the re-enactment video just before the bridge, #116 is the owner. Webmaster, Tony Garmey's e-mail address is horizonracing at msn.com Thanks for all the seconds for Tony's membership. John James TR4 #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/d7a79431/attachment.htm From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 20:17:53 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:17:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: <66C5DB41-6E3E-452D-8CD6-B7B3FF8238E6@earthlink.net> Hello all, Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of the story will follow. I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 25 21:05:21 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best > take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/a7520836/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:16:14 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:16:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: Message-ID: Every Minute Counts! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/ec66b3f6/attachment-0001.htm From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 25 21:16:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:16:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 21:24:56 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:24:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009301c91f87$7430efe0$fc503542@jrg> Leon, Point taken. For me the distinction is... recognizing the dangers vs obsessing about them. When I melted a piston and the car filled with smoke in turn 1 at TWS at 100+ mph.. my immediate thought was "well, I've had a fun life so far, so if this is the end, so be it". That was in immediate crisis mode. The car kept running, the smoke cleared and I drove the car back to the paddock to toss it on the trailer. It's only been time and money that have kept me from getting back on track. Not fear of the grim reaper. I respect the gent and I know I will meet him someday. It doesn't stop me from doing the the things I like. And I hope to raise my son to also enjoy racing, in whatever form is still allowed 20 years from now. Darned carbon footprint radicals! Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:05 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ____________________________________________________________ Reduce your debt up to 40%. Click here for debt consolidation information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1pXCtz9kQtHxKzFXWAd7p8x52sxhO4q3sur3FcnKJMFM/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/e56c9ca6/attachment.htm From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:30:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:30:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3B3EE88659964A7AB2C5FCBDDA3797E9@Bud> Of course not Tony..thanks for your patience Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing > Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? > > - Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:51:20 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:51:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage > events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games > feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw > "Days of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad > idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show > them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them > cool so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was > in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what > I needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved > him to the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close > to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw > some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a > yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his > lap time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and > made me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my > best to get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move > and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future > holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/d51aa0c1/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:53:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:53:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <64CFD007-D2BD-4445-BD80-9491F49110E2@bnj.com> Hey, Racer Bud, how did I get dropped from the newsletter. I thought the only way to unsubscribe was to kick. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:18 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: michael cook > To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party > CSPRRC 1975 > > We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten > years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British > Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got > about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. > Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" > lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only > wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. > > We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was > close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a > certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across > the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have > alcohol on the other side of the rope. > > You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink > in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night > victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten > and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn > Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed > bottles. > > Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original > "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first > one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent > named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we > crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a > female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have > a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. > > I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, > one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called > Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. > > No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could > always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and > donuts the next morning. > > And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington > brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and > a Bell AiroCobra. > > Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? > > Mike Cook > > > > From: cwn74 at aol.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 > Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC > 1975 > > > I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British > Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing > Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. > > Boy were those the glory days! > > David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. > The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we > all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm > still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). > Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, > Triumph, Jaguar) were there. > A grand time was had by all! > If only I took photos! > > Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! > > My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this > event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! > http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html > > > Clark > Clark W. Nicholls > '72 Stag '74 Spitfire > "Reality... It's not what you think. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/abc32e3e/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:05:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/be29c4e7/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:13:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:13:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed-- your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > I understand the intent.... > > When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the > understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to > pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. > > Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? > > One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to > allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session > and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. > > When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini > Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation > was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use > that information in order to make a safe pass. > > I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage > group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule > is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if > you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be > agreed before cars hit the track. > > It all comes down to communication. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > too many toys, not enough $$$ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete > before reading. > > > I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the > "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed > that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was > traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want > to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why > were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to > be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed > and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to > the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place > that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. > > There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you > are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this > guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always > passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally > lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the > line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to > drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the > most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. > I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up > on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower > than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect > for that, lift and wait. > > If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path > through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you > can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd > have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in > any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was > to blame, but you are responsible. > > We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with > picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you > don't belong anywhere near the racing line. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Steven, >> >> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >> events... so >> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >> games feel >> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >> "Days of >> Thunder" once too often ;) >> >> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >> idea to >> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >> them the >> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >> To: FOT >> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >> This meant I >> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them >> cool so >> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was >> in the >> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what >> I needed >> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and >> feeling >> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >> done >> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >> "Warm-up" >> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >> him to the >> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >> close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at >> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw >> some >> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >> yellow >> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >> lap time >> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >> and made me >> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >> best to get >> my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." >> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their >> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move >> and >> you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future >> holds. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet > tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/1ccdda63/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:24:25 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/0c227657/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:25:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:25:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/72fa7949/attachment.htm From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 22:31:08 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:31:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: <965138683-1222403544-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1387949309-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please don't continue with the pee funnel topic either. Steve ------Original Message------ From: Tony Drews Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 22:33:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: 'FOT' Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/06cc3e95/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:37:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:37:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/abc07f7f/attachment-0001.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:38:36 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:38:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c91f91$be87ce60$fc503542@jrg> I won't argue against your points in a race session. But the orginal point was that it happened in an early practice session. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that generally a time for racers to figure if the car is running correctly, and for newcomers to the track to figure the track correctly? So.. doing a full bore racing manuever in that scenario might be a bit... wrong? Yeah, I've only done 2 weekends on track. But somehow even I don't think I should be scaring the chickens that early in the morning. Lemme take control. Assume I'm doing brake checks during a race session. If you blow by me in this scenario.. I won't blame you. I'm doing the dumb*ss thing. But in the first warm up session in the morning? Come on. Think about it, before putting fingers on keyboard. That's the essential reason that accidents happen. People don't think about what they're doing, when they do it. And the people around them don't expect it. But let's separate blatantley stupid driving from possibly normal warmup procedures. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:26 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: britbits at netzero.com; 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ____________________________________________________________ Stop losing your hair. Click to restore your hair. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uQUmK9hKxhJGomxOdWv94q9K1lfcQrS0QzImXxTCCceshca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/29979945/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:44:08 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:44:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00ff01c91f92$84615f70$fc503542@jrg> Actually, I have no issues with being on track with you. As long as we're clear on the rules. If whatever groups says "stay on line".. I'll stay on line and expect you to have a clue on what that means. And if they say "go off line if you're slow" then I'll go off line. Pretty simple, isn't it? And at the end of the day I'll have the playboy bunnies as I'll have been the "nice'" racer. ;) Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:37 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/a8a29643/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:45:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would > be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, > thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year > VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and > Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have > fun with the rest. > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Define "speed". >> >> Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, >> or the normal speed of the run group? >> >> If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced >> speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal >> definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? >> >> What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or >> predicable drivers? What's safer? >> >> Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up >> session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that >> scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? >> >> Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? >> >> Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? >> >> Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate >> sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. >> >> We're just supposed to be out there having fun. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> >> From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was >> talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, >> in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing >> organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on >> the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe >> nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able >> to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I >> bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >>> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted >>> to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >>> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If >>> it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >>> before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >>> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >>> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >>> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at >>> speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are >>> driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is >>> the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >>> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >>> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >>> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >>> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor >>> told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I >>> considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any >>> day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In >>> contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, >>> they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where >>> they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>>> idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>>> done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>>> him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble. >>>> >>>> ~SB >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>>> Future holds. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>> >>> Bill Babcock >>> Babcock & Jenkins >>> Billb at bnj.com >>> 503.936.7660 >>> www.bnj.com >>> >>> Editor >>> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >>> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >>> >>> Bill at kenalu.com >>> www.kenalu.com >>> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >>> diet tips and solutions. >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel >> online. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/4d73ba44/attachment-0001.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:01:38 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:01:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: Amen to that!! Thanks Tony. Gary Fuqua **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/287d8758/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:07:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:07:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I remember them fondly. In fact I think one of Kas' books has a picture of Peyote and I surrounded by a bevy of them. Cute little buggers, lots of pink and white spandex, and friendly too. I wanted to take some home, but I don't think that would have worked out all that well. I was just interested in the shade, honest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:33 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of > the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand > Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the > CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the > pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim > To: 'Bill Babcock' > Cc: 'FOT' > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/041b3c99/attachment-0001.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:09:01 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:09:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg><05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <012101c91f95$fe5c9bc0$fc503542@jrg> Gee thanks. This is making me reconsider my effort to put togther a vintage race Spitire (got a couple potentials in the barn) as I'm not really sure I want to be affiliated with the racing mentaliity I'm seeing tonight. On the vintage racing scene the Mini drivers have seemed to be a more reasonable lot. Maybe that's the tack I'll follow in the future. Thanks for being on the FOT list. Sorry I didn't meet the entrane requirement of being a b*tth*le. Cheers, Jim Dallas Spitfire(s) and other toys. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:45 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. 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Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Orlando Vacations - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uGWEce7IsFzNhi7xTVixlHPtdiIQ3cBkR1WCWkhu72GOf7w/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/d5f00b95/attachment-0001.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:15:57 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:15:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/8b826efe/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:19:37 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:19:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/c9c704c5/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:23:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:23:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c91f97$f4099040$c2523542@jrg> Gary, I'm movin' on. It's been interesting... but the noise to signal level has gotten too great lately. Time to move on. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com [mailto:GSFuqua1 at aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:20 AM To: Billb at bnj.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Love Music? Get a degree in Musical Education. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vGvDJ1b3Ut25IsB2futtu2SOC7Y17bLJvEKP4OWxqLTeFgy/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/c8221823/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:26:01 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/1dada221/attachment.htm From quicktr4 at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 23:44:21 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:44:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/cb0929a9/attachment-0001.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:37:06 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:37:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall safety of the group. After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to our camp/towbeasts? So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my car. Again.. my decision. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWY5idilhSq8QjPaYQfAOFZQGwscO80OlTBrLr13J7sns/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/e2f1ba30/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:48:47 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:48:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9567A579-998A-4BBA-A715-0EC124E86589@bnj.com> It's always a little confusing Gary, and I was really trying to be helpful. If you're at speed--your speed, whatever that is, then stay on the line. It's the overtaking driver's responsibility to pass you safely. If you're fiddling around, or something's wrong, or there is a reason why you're not at speed, stay well away from the line. I've been in this situation many times myself, trying to figure out something about my car, or dealing with an issue. At those times you need to be extremely cognizant that there may be people coming up behind you that are more committed to a line than you are. Unfortunately there really isn't a "right". I've been to tracks where the organizing body makes a big deal about pointing people by. But that can really be a problem--overtaking drivers probably have a plan to get by you. Telling them which side to pass you may be very problematic, especially if you're a relatively new driver. If you point to the left you are probably going to automatically drift right. Which may be where they were headed. That can turn a simple pass into a pretty exciting moment for everyone. Some organizing bodies go the other way and make a big deal about NOT pointing people by IF YOU ARE AT SPEED. I prefer that, but I can deal with either. I'm really not in that much of a hurry, and most vintage racers aren't either, but I understand how people can wind up committed to a line. If you are not creeping around, then don't worry about it, drive your line, race your race. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:15 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told > to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to > pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is > where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't > have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know > what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is > going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold > them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around > the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at > Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple > digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line > was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that > happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. > > I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for > one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just > someone's opinion. > > Thanks for listening. > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/928613db/attachment.htm From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:51:52 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <005c01c91f9b$fb054bb0$c2523542@jrg> I've only raced with CVAR. What is the guideline in other vintage groups? In CVAR the rule (law) is that you drive your line. Anyone making a pass has to respect YOUR line. I've never had it qualified for if you're doing brake tests, engine run in, etc. If you are in front, you run the line. Obviously, if the car is sick and you're just nursing it to the pits, you run off line and let the run group through. Common sense. Unless you're at speed. Whatever "reasonable" speed might be at that point on the track. Then you keep running the "line". So.. good luck in the future. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here for easy weight loss help and diet information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4unVt4TsgIIfTXLJGtoYA9uaoLvwWSTBxFNkusDDIofER7Ai/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/f3cabe2e/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 00:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> References: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Message-ID: You do realize Jim that you've only been talking to me? For myself, I'd say "don't let the door hit you in the ass" but there's 200+ far nicer people in the FOT. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Jim wrote: > Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall > safety of the group. > > After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to > our camp/towbeasts? > > So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like > suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the > essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it > more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. > > If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. > > Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my > car. > > Again.. my decision. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM > To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question > of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and > that of others I race with. > > Cheers, > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film > school near you. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/b293015c/attachment.htm From dtalbott at archrepro.com Fri Sep 26 00:20:01 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:20:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Is you is, or is you ain't on the line? Assuming that you have clearly signaled your intention by waving someone around can be a problem if the overtaking car doesn't see the wave, or if he's is already committed to the line. Without having been there, it's unclear to me what the "red 2002" perceived as he approached the slower car saw in front of him. Moving "a bit to the right" and being "pretty close to the line" may have communicated very mixed signals to others who are halfway through a green flag session - even if it is just a morning warm up to some. Carroll Smith always talked about carrying a spare set of brake pads in his brief case that he had bedded on a test day just so he never had to worry about it on a race weekend. That's not to say that you can't (carefully) bed brakes or heat cycle (and cool)sticker tires during a hot session, but do your best to make your intentions obvious and stay the hell outta the fast line as much as you can. Even that can be tricky when you're transiting through connected left-right corners like esses. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: quicktr4 To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/9d7d00fd/attachment-0001.htm From budscars at comcast.net Fri Sep 26 02:21:18 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: Message-ID: it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/4390f121/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 07:25:18 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:25:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ...and to a lot of us, that defines the 8/10's rule. Racing just as hard as you can, coming up on a slower car approaching the apex and giving up the pass because you know he will be taking the line. You go 8/10's. If you are going to keep up with the guy you are stalking you may have to go more than 10/10's, getting to the edge of the grass and kicking up the gravel or use you're edgy, maybe risky, off line driving skills. In vintage most times we take it safe and slow it up to either go around or take a position in line behind the slower car, knowing that our prey is getting away. That is what we do in vintage, apologies to Bob Tullias. The above has nothing to do with the car that is out there bedding brakes or breaking in the engine. When we are on the track, practice or not the line is for racing. The other drivers won't know what we are doing and as Bill accurately pointed out if someone is going at a vastly slower speed the pointing thing doesn't always work. When in doubt we get in line. So Gary, I don't have a speedo in my car, and I rarely look at the dash at the end of either of those straights. Just how fast are you going at the end of the Hallett straight? Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:16 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/1ab48f0f/attachment.htm From dotts46 at aol.com Fri Sep 26 07:31:24 2008 From: dotts46 at aol.com (dotts46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:31:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New email address Message-ID: <8CAEDF34E76D8E8-1480-2485@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com> Please note new email address for Dan Otts dotts46 at q.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/9cf72d30/attachment.htm From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 26 08:09:48 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:09:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Back at the old Skippy school, the instructors often said, "If you're ahead of , oh say, Henry Morrison, it's your corner. If it's Mario Andretti coming up behind you, it's his corner." It's all a balancing act of knowing your abilities and situational awareness with the ultimate goal of getting your car back to the pits in one piece as close to the front of the pack as possible........................... From: budscars at comcast.netTo: GSFuqua1 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.comDate: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700CC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/911bd160/attachment-0001.htm From jerrybarr at charter.net Fri Sep 26 08:18:11 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:18:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> I would think if you are moving less than your racing speed you should have a hand in the air as a signal that you are slowing. If you are racing at the speed you are capable of then you have the line. Just my 2 cents worth. On Sep 25, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come > away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven > says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven >> was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing >> speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in >> any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed >> to be on the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not >> safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not >> be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't >> say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, >>> the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone >>> wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe >>> pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" >>> to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. >>> If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to >>> delete before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not >>> want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, >>> why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you >>> need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you >>> are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you >>> are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line >>> is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if >>> you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago >>> this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why >>> I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He >>> was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving >>> instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the >>> line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter >>> in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit >>> "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's >>> battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they >>> need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and >>> wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a >>>> bad idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just >>>> about done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I >>>> waved him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/a5cf810d/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 08:38:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:38:11 EDT Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: Outrageous FOT behavior to be encouraged. Three races, starting with the Glen. And one pending. Great personal accounts of the experience. It puts "FOT" in large caps. > Hello all, > Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to > send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was > gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and > 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went > on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy > for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. > Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] > are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of > the story will follow. > I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive > in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! > Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/87aaefb0/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 10:45:06 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:45:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This may not be a vintage race though. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 10:58:04 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:58:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! Message-ID: FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/f34f3c20/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Fri Sep 26 11:07:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:07:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." Patience comes to mind. If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if someone is chasing him, still dumb move. If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. A. 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/fb0155a8/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 11:12:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:12:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468082C8-4001-414C-B2B4-B3AB5CAA587B@bnj.com> From the look of the field that passed him during the spin, I'd say he had a lot on his bumper, and he would have had lousy corner exit speed, so the train may have nailed him. Still, it's hard to win a race when you're plastered on the guard rail. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." > > Patience comes to mind. > > If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if > someone is chasing him, still dumb move. > > If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. > > A. > > > 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/955df3eb/attachment.htm From triosan at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:53:42 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:53:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: *Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers* Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/9d2be2e0/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 12:25:28 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots > might be interested: > > Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers > > > Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. > I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist > and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. > > > I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to > street standards. This special car includes: > > A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The > cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. > > New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker > shaft. > > Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of > 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. > > Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable > ignition timing > > Electronic tach. > > Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with > Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss > great!) > > Hi torque starter motor > > Newly cored stock radiator > > A new paint job -white over previous white. > > A new professionally installed convetable top. > > New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 > rears. > > A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw > out bearing > > A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential > > Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar > > New brakes and stainless brake lines > > Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion > > Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. > > Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar > > 5 Point Sparco seat belts > > OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. > > Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. > > > The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably > 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for > track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an > uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. > There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working > on fixing that problem. > > > Pictures are available at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# > > > I am asking $8000 for it. > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/25b5ce75/attachment.htm From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 26 12:57:42 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:57:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> Message-ID: Without defending my awe-inspiring race car driving, let me just say that I was trying my best, having a blast, 100% focused on being a good driver. So was the other guy, who, by the way was hauling a$$. He passed me in the dirt, how ungentlemanly of him. ~Steve From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fri Sep 26 14:27:29 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal Message-ID: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> 97 520-170 N/A SEAL Purolator Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Mine was toast when disassembled and Moss has it listed as N/A. Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/9ef9cf19/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 13:43:38 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/c71bb635/attachment-0001.htm From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Fri Sep 26 16:18:15 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:18:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! References: Message-ID: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Also Ed's wife Linda, "The Better Diehl!" She was very friendly, encouraging, and helped me get belted in a couple times. As did their friend Tony A to Z, Funny, in 1971 I used to help him (Tony) get belted into Oscar's McLaren! Funny how things are. Anyone going to the VRG race at the Glen in Oct? Take care all, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Kramer, Robert To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/46fe53d0/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 16:27:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: I really enjoyed seeing those guys. It's been more than a year since I last saw Hardy, which is much too long, he's one of my favorite people. A real pleasure meeting Jack Wheeler and Ed Diehl, great fun talking to them. I think they both thought Peyote was a little on the weird side, but then who doesn't? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 26 16:28:30 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal In-Reply-To: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <1E9875A6B21A4C9DB11275DF4E235C45@jdnet.deere.com> > Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Dunno if it's actually in stock, but TRF has them listed. P/N 500328. Randall From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 26 22:27:45 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:27:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Wow, and it's barely around the corner. Hey Bill, we can work this out. I have the space, but not the funds. Sounds like an even split to me. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:25 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: TR list; Triumph; Friends Subject: Re: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine-fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well-probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080926/9902f274/attachment-0001.htm From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 27 06:49:13 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:49:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/6a91aef9/attachment.htm From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 27 08:26:16 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:26:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News Message-ID: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/63f4f082/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 27 08:31:42 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News RIP PLN NTXT In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAEEC4E50E6B48-BC-5933@WEBMAIL-MY28.sysops.aol.com> . From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sat Sep 27 09:38:06 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:38:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRg7UpSxO5g Check this out...pretty cool Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: September 27, 2008 10:26 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More Sad News I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/011c91c6/attachment.htm From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 09:57:53 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:57:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One more on Ed. Last year Evelyn and I were at the Jekyll Island SEVTR event and we met Ed. Spent plenty of time socializing with him and both thought he was just one of the nicest Triumph folks around. In conversation he had just casually mentioned that he had raced a Spitfire in the past, nothing more. We were at the Legends portion at the Glen and they introduced Ed Diehl. I looked at Evelyn, holy crap.... had no idea we were hanging out with somebody famous last year. Hope to rub elbows again some time. Marty From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com To: N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I?m sure some of the other ?legends? whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our ?issues?. It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/6924fe5b/attachment.htm From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 27 10:24:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:24:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/57a6230c/attachment-0001.htm From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 12:26:20 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:26:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More sad news Message-ID: Amici, A good YouTube video of 2 cars that Newman drove (TR6 and 240Z). A few gaffes, but a great vid anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bv4y7o6BFs Shane Ingate, saddened in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/38d7512c/attachment.htm From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 27 13:32:50 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:32:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I was right about the film. A British Leyland news release about the film says: "Phil Hill and David Hobbs will be pace car drivers and Grand Marshalls at the SCCA run-offs at Road Atlanta, Oct. 31-Nov. 2." Mike From: mlcooknj at msn.comTo: cwn74 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/8a1e5099/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Sep 27 13:44:44 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:44:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] ARE Steel Flywheels-One Left - TR3 TR4 Flywheels Produce TR6??? Message-ID: FOT, I did a production run of 20 Steel Flywheels this year. I have one left at the old price.. $399.00 plus shipping of $15.00. Unless I get another group order, I dont currently plan to produce more. The engineeing is done for the TR6 flywheel, but I will not launch this production without some advance orders. Because of commonality of manufacturing operations between the TR4 and the TR6, I can combine production of the two products, and get a some break on cost. I have the great fortune of having the CNC equipment about four blocks away from me, and a son who can do the engineering. Otherwise it just wouldnt happen at all. Contact me off list if there is interest. Thanks, Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/42e29727/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 27 16:28:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <51C8F960-45FC-4BD5-868F-5D9BEC268064@bnj.com> Sounds expensive for an old trailer. You can have my four year old Pace for that, On Sep 27, 2008, at 5:49 AM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080927/67cd1bed/attachment.htm From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 28 13:07:01 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:07:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Hi everyone, I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run vintage with a VMC license. Thanks for any help you can give! Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From tr6nut at verizon.net Sun Sep 28 13:50:41 2008 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:50:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? In-Reply-To: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> References: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Message-ID: <48DFE011.1000508@verizon.net> Susan, Don't know what constitutes "a day's drive" for you, but here's three Fall events: October 16/17, SVRA Season Final, Road Atlanta November 23-25, VRG Turkey Bowl, Summit Point, WV December 12-14, VDCA, Roebling Road (Savannah, GA) Also, if memory serves me, VDCA usually runs a February event at Carolina Motorsports Park. Susan Kahler wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able > to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to > cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family > instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able > to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around > Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within > a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before > April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run > vintage with a VMC license. > > Thanks for any help you can give! > > Susan :) > > From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:02:39 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:02:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: Susan, I so sorry to hear your news. I have been there with my folks as well. I certainly hope things go well for your grandfather and family. Your priorities are certainly in order. Hopefully you can make the Road Atlanta event. I would love to run there and have the Mitty on my schedule for next year in May. Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you or Brad. Cheers & God Bless, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/e1b2b985/attachment.htm From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:56:28 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:56:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals for Hallett Message-ID: Just a note to let everyone know I have received a packet of Uncle Jack Decals which I will have with me at Hallett. Thanks Joe A. !! Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/c177560a/attachment.htm From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 28 16:00:06 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:00:06 GMT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijndXC4XQJF1JR0oE4MZWZvr54hlq3gPflqO9jCRokouzjzRo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/0acf0f62/attachment.htm From cwn74 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 16:40:22 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: do a search on YouTube Paul Newman Walters lime rock for video of Paul and Barbara at Lime Rock last year. Shot by my fellow pit marshal /videographer John Godfrey Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/f5312945/attachment.htm From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 28 17:41:51 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:41:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <20080928235020.POEW8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryb1lDSbSzY From s.janzen at comcast.net Sun Sep 28 19:10:18 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:10:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of because it would just sit on their lot all winter. A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted tires and rusty frame to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/0173e867/attachment-0001.htm From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 28 19:57:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:57:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. There's lots of really good trailers around selling for next to nothing. On Sep 28, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a > 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the > factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last > time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various > assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found > it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to > buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of > because it would just sit on their lot all winter. > A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed > trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the > landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. > a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted > tires and rusty frame to me. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM > Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice > > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/6391f645/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:01:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:01:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2 TS1 LO Sailing for Hawaii Next Week. Message-ID: FOT, Reports are that TS1 has been secured in a warehouse in San Diego and will sail about Tuesday. Hawaii 5-0 is standing by to dust the entire car down for fingerprints. There was some late night suspicious activity regarding TS1 while it was under the Classic Motorsports Big Top at The Glen. The car may have been molested in some way, but like sheep and llamas, cars make unlikely witnesses in a court of law. I dont think anything will come of it. I asked Robert if it had a few more miles on the odometer, Sunday Morning. He said, "NO, that was the first thing I checked". Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/1e40c273/attachment.htm From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 28 20:18:43 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:18:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. At the US Grand Prix in Phoenix in 1990, I was working a station behind the TransAm paddock. Another worker across the street was trying to signal me that someone behind me wanted to ask me a question. As there were only about 3 F1 cars on course, when they passed by, he yelled at me to turn around. It was raining and these two guys wanted to know if I thought if the track was going to dry up before the TA session. One of the guys had his hat pulled low over his face, but he turned his face up to me to ask the question. I immediately knew it was PLN. I told him that the track might dry up if it stopped raining, but we had a large puddle on the line that passed for a lake in Phoenix. He and the other guy (Bob Sharp) both started laughing. I realized that there were scores of women looking for him but he wasn't going to let them know where he was. I saw him again at Detroit a couple of years later, and he was always very cordial to marshals. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:00 PM To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com; enichol at bellsouth.net; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net; leetheviolinist at gmail.com; rltaylor3 at gmail.com; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/51d8fb94/attachment-0001.htm From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sun Sep 28 20:20:49 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:20:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/1a9badfe/attachment.htm From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 28 20:31:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:31:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: I have a TR race, but need to edit it. Kinda behind, busy rebuilding my server so I can get the websites back up and running. A. On 28-Sep-08, at 10:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/0559ecb0/attachment.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:32:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit Message-ID: This brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... > My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to > another location on the > corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very > apologetic for being > in my way. I then realized who it was. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/57c93043/attachment.htm From dos_gusanos at msn.com Sun Sep 28 20:54:01 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:54:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I still have a great photo of Paul Newman on the Detroit grid with Davy Jone's Super Vee team in 1985. I was just getting a snap of the cars when he stepped into the frame. From: N197TR4 at cs.comDate: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 -0400To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Paul Newman at DetroitThis brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/e3ab7d48/attachment.htm From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 28 16:20:35 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:20:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch > I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years > ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very > aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started > up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He > replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower > watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA > last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that > he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an > SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with > Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. > > > -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of > that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International > Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted > sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I > go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser > and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and > the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." > > > > The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He > says, "No, who are you?" > > > > I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" > > > > The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." > > > > Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he > takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which > they all laugh their collective asses off. > > > > Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it > never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. > > > > If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind > Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. > > > > Richard > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Fashion Design Education - Click Here! > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/6f691cf6/attachment-0001.htm From CWNicholls at aol.com Thu Sep 25 19:23:10 2008 From: CWNicholls at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:23:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] First lap downtown reenactment... Message-ID: Video from 1951 MGTD #928 the first lap of honor from which the Triumphs were forgotten... They can be seen lining the street on the return to town for the following laps. Again, Henry's car stands out! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1421181976941140816 &hl=en Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080925/9e0c32cf/attachment.htm From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 06:55:29 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Message-ID: Brakes re-done properly and new bearings,etc. will cost you about $1500 possibly....plus prob tires....electics maybe..plus you may need a brake controller installed ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/d4086462/attachment.htm From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Sep 29 07:22:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:22:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailer education 101 Message-ID: As always the FoT List was a font of knowledge and helped prevent me from making a bad purchase decision. Being from Texas I was blinded by the perceived value of an A/C unit. To all that responded I thank you. Hopefully the discussion helped others as well. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/c19186cd/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 08:13:07 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:13:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/7f63ad74/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 08:35:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:35:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... In-Reply-To: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty.? On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From:?BOB KRAMERTo:?FOT ListSent:?Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject:?[Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU#?Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Sep 29 08:45:15 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C0A82F040B44FEB83D03F3EC2AA264E@JeffsNotebook> Hi Glen, If you remember a number of years ago, you and I looked this car over pretty thoroughly at (I believe) Summit Point during a vintage race there. I do remember taking a bunch of photos. He wanted to sell it and I was considering the purchase. I passed on the purchase at the time for some reason I don't remember now. If I recall correctly his son took possession of it upon Bill's death, took it to Colorado, and restored it, painting it the current blue color. He then sold it to Bob Stadel, who has it now and was running at the Glen with us. Vroom, vroom, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From: BOB KRAMERTo: FOT ListSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1696 - Release Date: 9/28/2008 1:30 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/39650d4b/attachment-0001.htm From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 08:58:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Message-ID: Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander > So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of > Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it > was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over > the weekend. > Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. > Just curious > Thanks > Glen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/a7dd6111/attachment.htm From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 29 09:03:25 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:03:25 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had a death at the 400 km race at the Nurburgring also ..a Mustang driver crashed at Wehrseifen and was killed on the track. It is supposed that he was way too fast for that corner. You can see skid marks from his braking. Most drivers wanted to continue the race ? incl. me. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/015c59ef/attachment.htm From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 09:12:01 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... THANKS! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAF05CDBFB46AE-94C-B9F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for the info guys! Glen -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58 am Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill ?willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. ? The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we=2 0had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 10:24:20 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:24:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Steel Flywheels by A.R.E. for FOT Some choices in production. Message-ID: If not interested in Flywheels, please delete. If I do another production run of TR3/TR4 Flywheels, I may be able to combine with a first production run of TR6 (later crank). There are some common manufacturing operations that may allow some cost benefits of combining these production runs. Furthermore, I get requests for the drilled and tapped holes associated with aftermarket clutches. Chuck Arnold asks if flywheels can be manufactured without the drilled and tapped holes. This could be a brilliant idea if folks have the capabilities of doing their own mounting holes. (Proof of concept needs to be checked) This would eliminate the transport of the Flywheels to a different Machine Center and reduce the cost of production. My experience with deducts is that it would not be generous. This project may proceed, but likely very slowly. It wont be a high priority, unless the numbers start to look very good. Excel Spread Sheet Time...who is interested if we can do 'blanks' for mounting aftermarket clutches. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/a5efced4/attachment.htm From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 29 13:28:03 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: Message-ID: <117D43C32FAB46749D85830195E525AA@Elliott> There are several photos of this Ambro when it was still green and yellow and Bill Ames too, at Mont Tremblant, one of his last appearances. Look for the photos in the historical section of the FOT site. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/8401e441/attachment.htm From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 17:29:27 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:29:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <1869AE378BE34161854EDC8835A951FF@S1099895562> I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/0f23dec4/attachment.htm From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 18:48:15 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:48:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment machine I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of the others were not working or spotty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/f90ba16e/attachment.htm From tedtsimx at bright.net Mon Sep 29 18:59:20 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:59:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel Message-ID: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 19:48:14 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:48:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel In-Reply-To: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> References: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> Message-ID: <004701c9229e$9b7ac020$d2704060$@racer@comcast.net> I bought several of the items offered prior to Watkins Glen and after receiving the shirts and hat, I am very pleased with both their fit and quality. I'm looking forward to wearing the regalia at our next race in a couple of weeks. Thanks Ted and Scott for all your work in making these "cool" items available. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lfritz82 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:56:40 2008 From: lfritz82 at hotmail.com (Lorne Fritz) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/db4b6698/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:03:30 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LUK update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83FA0CBF-6DAA-46A7-AD61-2CE289E9C5C1@bnj.com> I have two words for you--linear bearings. As in Saab clutch actuators. I'm not sure what i'd use on a street car, but my guess is that I'd still go for a quartermaster clutch. Bulletproof. On Sep 29, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Lorne Fritz wrote: > After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I > pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. > The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the > last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and > I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage > and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru > the trouble I have lately. Lorne > See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or > on the go. See Now _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/792c1e55/attachment.htm From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:07:35 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: The best way to understand bump steer is to play with some software that simulates roll/bump. Other than that, just do some google searches and read online stuff. Most of the books I've read don't do a good job--no idea why. The most important thing to understand is that you have zero bump steer when the upper and lower inner suspension pivots line up with the inner steering pivot, the upper and lower outer suspension pivots line up with the outer steering pivot, and the instant centers of the upper, lower, and steering arms all intersect at the same point. Instant center is an imaginary line drawn through the center of each link. They usually intersect about twenty feet from the car. what you want is for all of them to come together. If you think about it, it's clear why this recipe would deliver zero bump steer. The only way to achieve that is to design the suspension that way, but you can get in the ballpark by moving the rack up and down--at least you can reduce bump steer within the limited stroke of your suspension system. On Sep 29, 2008, at 5:48 PM, rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its > time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had > the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating > bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps > thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good > but most of the others were not working or spotty > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/1c7d9427/attachment.htm From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 22:44:55 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:44:55 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Mr. Paul Newman Message-ID: <093020080444.18306.48E1AEC7000E85040000478222058861720E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Great to hear all the testimonials about Paul Newman. I used to watch him race at Portland International in the early 80's When he was not racing, he was selling his salad oil in the pits by the gallon to all the ladies. When I was telling my wife about all of your recollections, she reminded me of the fact that PN used to sunbath on the deck on his NYC apartment. Her nursing school, the NY Foundling Hospital, was across the street and she and her friends used to fight over the binoculars. I guess he made a better impression than the Pennsylvania college boy at 5 ft 10 inches and 135 wirey pounds driving the Robin Egg blue TR3A looking for a parking space on the street below!! John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/e0aa26f7/attachment.htm From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 01:47:21 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:47:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: <81E5743A11D24620B9ADD721FF61AA18@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I've been on the road for a few days (took in Oregon State knocking off USC in football and then a bit of celebrating) and I just spent the better part of the evening catching up on e-mails. After pondering the aggressive driving vs 80%, etc I felt I needed to toss in a couple of other thoughts. First off, on "the line" topic. I drive a Spitfire and my "fast line" is significantly different than the line of my Spridget friends. I can easily go inside on many corners while they have the inside front wheel in the air. Then you've got the whole subject of the qualifying line, the defensive line and the passing line. The only true line is the one you are taking. The point is that when being passed, hold your line because the overtaking driver expects you to do so. However, don't be surprised if they don't go where you point and don't be surprised if they pass closer and faster than you expect. This is racing, not a parade. In the SCCA vintage group that I normally race in, I'm on the track with all kinds of vehicles, from the Fiat that can barely get out of it's own way to Lola T70's. With cars that close on me at as much as 60 MPH, I've got to use my mirrors a lot. I most often wave them by and give them whatever track they need! (meaning I'm not on my racing line - watch out for marbles) On the flip side, when passing cars, I use a lot of caution until I've raced (and talked) with the driver quite a bit. Back on the "line" topic, we've got at least one driver that never takes the same line twice in a row. Since he hasn't injured anybody yet, the stewards still allow him on the track. I'll pull into the pits and rest for 30 seconds rather than race close to this....... I've found that there's a lot of difference in driver skills and experience as noted above. This seems to be more pronounced in Vintage racing than in other venues. From my perspective there is a threshold that a driver needs to cross to be "racing" rather than "driving". I started driving Formula Fords in the early 1970's. I drove the cars, but did not really race them until I was getting lapped at a National race in my second year of racing. I'll never forget the sight of about 5 cars that just passed me going into turn 1 at Portland with the cars about 30% sideways and the front wheels moving side to side to balance the drift. I remember telling myself that if these guys could do that, so could I. The next lap I dropped 1 1/2 seconds off my lap time and never looked back. If I get told I can't drive like that on the track (cut back to 80%), I'll buy a boat or something. However, I won't drive that hard if I'm near an expensive car (I race my against cars that are worth more than my house by far) or a driver that I'm not familiar with. I give the expensive cars a wide berth and limit my close racing to my Spridget friends (need more Spitfires in the PNW). Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being safe and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to learn. From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 30 02:07:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:07:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> Message-ID: http://www.ring-fokus.de/videos.php?vid=43 Some imressions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/42748c97/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 07:44:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:44:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: In a message dated 09/30/2008 2:52:04 AM Central Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: > <<< Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being > safe > and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the > novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to > learn. >>> > > Succinctly put, Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/9cc3a708/attachment.htm From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 10:06:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Message-ID: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/542e173e/attachment.htm From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 10:11:00 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <891541.40264.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Ed: ? >From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum --- On Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:06 AM Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/b85be756/attachment.htm From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 30 10:52:49 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> This site explains it all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/6f2652b6/attachment-0001.htm From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 30 11:19:56 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:19:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: <20080930.131956.16447.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> A while back when this subject was active someone suggested it was better to have old used clutches rebuilt, rather than buying new ones. I just pulled a Borg & Beck clutch off a TR4A engine that I bought. It has a diaphram type pressure plate. If any one wants it for rebuilding (aside from surface corrosion on the fingers and cobwebs it looks decent), let me know and you can have it for the cost of shipping it to you. Otherwise it will go in my scrap pile to be recycled. Joe(B) After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne ____________________________________________________________ All is not lost! Click now for professional data recovery. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijm33uV3Gze1vp0NkY6mj2So0nJ5CukMH3YFPsxCoFn7XYO8a/ From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 11:41:54 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> Message-ID: <483242.40483.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Joe: The reason I'm not trusting all the available sources is because the STP site says Petty is still a spokesperson, while Wiki says that ended when Clorox bought out the company. Wiki does mention however the Studebaker link in the name which is perhaps how the misnomer was started. These sources are saying Scientifically Treated Petroleum. Thanks - Ed - --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Joe Curry wrote: From: Joe Curry Subject: RE: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net, "'FOT'" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:52 AM This si t e explains i t all. ? ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) ? Joe C. From: fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t [mail t o:fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t ] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sen t : Tuesday, Sep t ember 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subjec t : [Fo t ] Non-LBC group ques t ion ? Lis t er's: I'm wri t ing a magazine ar t icle abou t Indy roads t ers (Kur t is', Novi ', e t c) and am examining t he S t udebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 S t udebaker purchased from t hree gen t lemen a li t t le known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil addi t ive produc t t hey were selling from t he t runks of t heir cars. S t udebaker gave Andy Grana t elli, t hen head engineer and chief t es t ?driver for S t udebaker t he posi t ion of CEO of t he newly acquired company which he t hen?renamed STP. Now my ques t ion...does anyone know for cer t ain t he meaning of STP? I am ge t t ing mixed answers from?The Racing His t ory Group. Mos t say i t s t ands for Specially Trea t ed Pe t roleum, while a few are saying i t s t ands for S t udebaker Tes t Produc t s. Do any of t he FOTers know t he " t rue" side of t he s t ory? BTW, la t er I will rela t e? t his pas t Sa t urday spen t wi t h t hree grea t guys, Johnny Ru t herford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElrea t h, a t a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/4fd938a3/attachment.htm From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 12:18:47 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:18:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Message-ID: Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/27307f5c/attachment.htm From wredinger at oppd.com Tue Sep 30 12:54:36 2008 From: wredinger at oppd.com (REDINGER, WILLIAM E) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:54:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill Years ago when Ethanol was first used in gasoline in the Midwest, I saw a large number of lead soldered brass floats (carb and fuel sender) sink due to the acid from the ethanol eating the flux that was used and thus leaving a weak spot in the joint that the fuel could eventually migrate through. Now that ethanol is in everything ( pump signs may not say it but more than likely it is in all gasoline from 5 to 15 % or E 85%) due to it's cheap octane boosting capacity it may come back to attack these old brass floats. I have successfully used a fuel resistant epoxy to do the sealing like Bob Wismer, since most of my old stash has been consumed by this. Bill Redinger ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:19 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/352aac4a/attachment.htm From tarch at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 30 13:14:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <5B1E39BAD1B544A8821A52B9207D7C6B@richardiipc> British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. I first met Jan years ago at a race. She was sitting quietly in their Nomad knitting, sewing, crocheting or something equally domestic. I squeezed in the cabin and she and I got into a wonderful conversation about something we had each read recently. With the grace and patience of nobility she let me go through whatever rant was on my mind. Her contributions were gentle, tolerant and thoughtful. You know, the kind of stuff that all guys fall for. Well, needles to say, I fell for it. I fell for it until she reached out to pick up her iced tea. There on her fore arm was a glorious tattoo, bright and bold. And here was I, caught with the incarnate image of Shirley Jones with a PhD, discussing loftier thoughts than often found in the paddock, and totally charmed by what's his name's wife! Of course we all have varying prejudices about tattoos; pro, con or indifferent. I think I have trained myself to be fairly indifferent, but this one caught me totally off guard. My thoughts were racing, trying to re-create the mood and circumstance which precipitated this adornment. I just couldn't make it fit. In my mind Jan's calm, call it serenity, simply belied the need for personal signature art. So I figured that probably she just stayed stoned all the time and one day she ran out of dope and in a fit of frenzy strolled into a tattoo parlor. That wasn't exactly what I thought, but that was the nature of my quandary. Tattoo or not, however, I was still smitten; still am, in fact. Especially after some 6 months later when I cautiously broached the subject to Joe. He laughed heartily and told me that Jan was just having fun with wash-off tattoos. How perfect! As Kathleen's article points out, Joe's a pretty Boss guy. But as many of you'll know, there is a reason for it. Richard TR-4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/c83d2310/attachment.htm From spitfiresuz at 141.com Tue Sep 30 13:36:44 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:36:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <380-220089230193644116@M2W018.mail2web.com> She's not my RaceMom for no reason! Jan is absolutely AWESOME. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Richard Taylor tarch at bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 14:24:36 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:24:36 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net May I have a second? Thanks, Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/327f92cb/attachment.htm From jerrybarr at charter.net Tue Sep 30 14:38:23 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6E0CA716-85A7-4986-808D-31D4D0E69A6F@charter.net> I will second that!! On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:24 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for > membership. > > He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington > yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car > run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. > > His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net > > May I have a second? > > Thanks, > > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/298158c5/attachment-0001.htm From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 14:39:17 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <345664.65124.qm@web57615.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Of course.? Now that TA Moser has a race car maybe he can get in on any government bailout as he is about to?generate bunches of unbacked debt. --- On Tue, 9/30/08, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: From: emanteno at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:24 PM Friends, ? I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. ? He is?the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington?yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope?to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. ? His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net ? May I have a second? ? Thanks, ? Irv Korey_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/15a146d1/attachment.htm From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 30 15:04:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Sure, I'll second the nomination. The guy with Irv's car probably could use our collective wisdom. But, if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got through after being away for 8 days, he's not going to stick around for long. I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol days when the FOT email list was all about making Triumphs go fast... > -----Original Message----- > From: Irv > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington > for membership. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 30 15:22:26 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:22:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080930162226.ky8iny5hgk8gkk4c@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Henry Frye: > ...if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks > is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got > through after being away for 8 days, he's not > going to stick around for long. > > I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol > days when the FOT email list > was all about making Triumphs go fast... You'll have to forgive your fellow FOTs for the recent avalanche of messages -- we were busy learning that the way to make Triumphs go fast is to drive them at somewhere between 9 and 10/10ths :-( Jim Hill From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 30 15:46:53 2008 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:46:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill are you using the POR gas tank sealer or the POR 15 black rust fixer/cover up goo? Terry Stetler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/42d0562a/attachment.htm From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:14:49 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:14:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: <48E2A4D9.9010604@pobox.com> I found the book, "How to Make Your Car Handle" to be very useful. rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time > to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and > had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear > and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for > the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of > the others were not working or spotty > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/de8d38ba/attachment.htm From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 16:27:45 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:27:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/37c0dced/attachment.htm From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:39:01 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a > lot of his photos were Spits brakes > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/0f0cf073/attachment.htm From bownes at seiri.com Tue Sep 30 18:06:15 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young > Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose > built race cars. > > REK46 at aol.com wrote: > > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot > of his photos were Spits brakes > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/2487d12d/attachment.htm From cwn74 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 18:43:15 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:43:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman motorsports trubute site In-Reply-To: References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <805678C9DCA24E18ABB32C5F00C9F935@semperon3400> I invite everyone to submit their PLN moment to this excellent website. (and read others) Tribute to Paul Newman Continues Altogether, there are 15 different articles currently up there, expressing a wide range of views. If you've got one you'd like to share, see our CONTACT Section and send it along ... http://www.speedstylemagazine.com/ Note link to PLN Tribute on left of homepage. Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/7bb09b8f/attachment-0001.htm From budscars at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 19:07:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:07:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <001646FB58B74CC491C3453D58C1C630@Bud> Something tells me i'm gettin' a 'Bum Steer' about this ! Racer bud ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Larry Young Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080930/8b4c2734/attachment.htm From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 28 23:09:33 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:09:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <757312126609454DA27D70642554FE3B@KasPC> I've still got a snap shot of Paul giving me a birthday cake at Limerock that he just took from the trunk of his car on a Trans-Am weekend when I was with Nissan. Neat guy, fast driver and just a wonderful guy to hang with. I might add that Jan Alexander repeated this action with a birthday cake for me at Watkins Glen, and she is pretty cute too. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Joe Boruch Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080928/1d6cb6bf/attachment-0001.htm From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 16:10:47 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://autox.team.net/archive/attachments/20080929/766906cc/attachment-0001.htm From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 00:14:06 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:14:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27><041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Also, Don't forget the Sunbeam Tiger. And you could probably also point to all the British cars that use a variation of the Buick aluminum V8 (Rover, TR8, etc) Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:24 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections American car with British engine - Nash Healey British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra Which one do *you* want? mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 06:19:18 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:19:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 06:38:26 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> ...and the TVR cars -----Original Message----- From: greenman62 at hotmail.com To: Mark J Bradakis ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 8:19 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg?Petrolati?Champaign,?Illinois??????? That's?not?a?leak...?My?car's?just?marking?its?territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gwizracing at cfu.net Mon Sep 1 07:27:36 2008 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:27:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen Message-ID: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) Gary Wiezorek, Remembering # 59 From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Sep 1 07:38:27 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48BBF053.1050504@pobox.com> And with regard to the Allard, Carol Shelby once said, "Where do you think I got the idea (for the Cobra)". Allard is the grandfather of all the British cars with American V8s, and since Zora Duntov worked for Allard and drove them a Lemans, it probably had a big influence on the Corvette as well. Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Sep 1 09:17:30 2008 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:17:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. Teriann fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ...and the TVR cars > > -----Original Message----- > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > Range Rover > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:31:32 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:31:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: one other American car with a British designed engine.... Ford Pinto On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:34:19 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: and one cannot, of course, forget the sale to Saab by triumph of the 4cyl engine that was to go into the 99. On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 09:51:15 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:51:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Standard connections Message-ID: Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? ==AM== I dunno, maybe one of Reid Railton's cars...with Hudson power (1930s)? ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. 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URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Sep 1 09:54:10 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BC1022.9070000@141.com> German car with Triumph Herald engine - Amphicar :-D Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 1 11:01:35 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:01:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Special TR4 For Sale Message-ID: <000001c90c54$6511a090$2f34e1b0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello: I am posting this for a friend who has decided to sell his historic, race ready 1962 triumph TR 4. This car was raced by D production Regional (San Francisco) and National Champion Steve Froines who won the later title at Daytona in 1965. Specs include: 196 hp engine built by Rebello, engine dyno sheets to confirm; four speed transmission with push button overdrive; three races on engine and trans rebuild. 4.5 rear end with Detroit Locker; spare engine parts and close ratio Dolaimate Sprint transmisson; plus other miscellaneous spares; American racing Mini-Lite wheels and extra set of 5.5 wheels with Yokohama AO48 tires. Raced with CSRG, HMSA and the Monterey Historics four times, most recently at last month's event. Car is period correct, fast and a proven front-runner. $35,000/o.b.o. Contact Tide Ebding at 925-360-2350 tidetr3 at yahoo.com. Note: period and current pictures are available to interested individuals however, I will be traveling to the US Vintage GP at Watkins Glen and will not return until Sept. 17 at which time I can send them out. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 1 15:37:39 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 16:27:18 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... _____ From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:36:35 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 23:36:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. An I thought dust bunnies were bad!!! Ick! Greg Petrolati Chamfayette, Illiregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: spitlist at cox.net To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; greenman62 at hotmail.com; jibjib at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Joe C. From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 22:44:00 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:44:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: I was going to write about all the things the movers have packed on my numerous moves. You win. EEEEEWWWWWW! Bob 2008/9/1 Joe Curry > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. > > > > Joe C. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *Doug Mitchell > *Sent:* Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM > *To:* greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > > > When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told > the movers > > to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The > next time > > they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They > also packed the > > garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. > > > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]*On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM > *To:* Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck > driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it > was my TR3 and TR8 too. > > When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late > 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... > > >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. > > Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > ------------------------------ > > From: jibjib at att.net > To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 > > Greg, > > > > We look forward to your presence in the PNW. > > > > > > > > > > Jack > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM > *To:* fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; > don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com > *Subject:* [Fot] Fading fast... > > The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to > Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in > my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years > is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a > pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly > a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I > originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... > To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. > > I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties > can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have > it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations > until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, > I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette > sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. > > If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: > > Greg Petrolati > 929 Jackson St. > Lafayette, OR 97127 > > Of course my email address won't change > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tedtsimx at bright.net Tue Sep 2 07:30:24 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:30:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paging Ernie Huesman Message-ID: <48BD3FF0.9040606@bright.net> Ernie, please give me a call when you have a chance. Thanks, Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 2 08:32:48 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:32:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen References: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> Message-ID: <01f501c90d08$c5b0d650$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wiezorek" To: "Joe Alexander" ; "Tony Drews" ; "FOT" ; "Irv Kory" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen > To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing > and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. > > Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny > side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) > > Gary Wiezorek, > Remembering # 59 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 09:11:29 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi, On the quick rack... DO IT. I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't believe that I waited this long. When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly set up Formula Fords - but I digress. Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 1 18:26:08 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:26:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "jim hearn" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 > Hi, > > On the quick rack... DO IT. > > I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't > believe that I waited this long. > > When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to > get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" > because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a > wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners > should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). > > I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year > (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much > steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly > set up Formula Fords - but I digress. > > Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is > twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too > much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and > the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. > > rml > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 10:43:54 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and > predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- > road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, > modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just > fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 > mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker > steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, > mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not > more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Hmm, different strokes for different folks. I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns _really quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars and all that. The thing with the quicker rack is that you don't approach corners "all arms and elbows". You just urge the car with the wheel and "it turns". I can rotate the car easily, if it steps out, a TINY correction gets the back where it belongs and I rarely "get behind" and spin. It is extremely drivable. With the old stock rack, turning into tight stuff (like pin turns - remember I'm an autocrosser) used to require shuffling the wheel, now I can do almost everything within the about 90 degrees either way from straight up - I never have to put tonnes of steering lock in. So, one setup may be fine for road racing and one may be fine for autocross. I'm pretty sure that my setup would be awesome for road racing, but then again, it'll be some time (if ever) before I could prove that. > Steve P. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 2 13:48:41 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:48:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: First, these guys are talking about TR4/6 which have a rack and pinion steering system, and second, you have to be pretty forgiving to consider a worm and peg system to be predictable and quick. Vague and touchy is more like it. The worm gear gets worn and notchy, the ratio is not great at the center and goes the wrong way as the wheel is turned, it's miserable to try to eliminate bump steer, and there's a lot of slop in the system. That's why no one used them after 1962 (that I can remember--not even golf carts). Your Triumph feels good to you because it's lashed down like a go- cart. Honestly, if you drove a modern race car you'd be amazed that you can get around a track safely with a TR3. All the same, lots of folks in this very organization do it, and do it well. A triumph of effort over engineering. But don't mistake that for an adequate steering system. It would be okay for an oxcart, but that's about it. On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Robert Lang wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds >> quickly and >> predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in >> fast- >> road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered >> springs, >> modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also >> tracks just >> fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between >> 55 and 65 >> mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much >> quicker >> steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require >> a firm, >> mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much >> if not >> more effect on turn in and grip as steering. > > Hmm, different strokes for different folks. > > I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns > _really > quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars > and > all that. From bswope959 at msn.com Tue Sep 2 14:08:01 2008 From: bswope959 at msn.com (Bill Swope) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:08:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Email Hold Message-ID: I will be gone for 30 days hold my Email lst Wm. (Bill) Swope dba C ME GO Racing 1030 Green Valley Rd. NW Los Ranchos, N M 87107 bswope959 at msn.com (505) 345-6235; fax (505) 345-1180 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjl6n at cstone.net Tue Sep 2 15:17:55 2008 From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: <3e3c77ba8789aaa3cc31e73465079a62.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net> > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. I used to know a someone who worked for a moving company - they lived for moments like that (ie. that was no accident!). John From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 2 17:45:47 2008 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:45:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Room available Message-ID: <006501c90d56$066ff980$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5> Lists, I just cancelled my room at the Hampton Inn Corning for Thursday 9-5 thru Sunday 9-8. So there is a room available for the asking. I do not know if they have a waiting list and if the room is automatically taken. I will be at the Glen I just do not need this room as I have made other plans. Phone for the Hampton is 607-936-3344. Stop by and visit with us at the WPTA Hospitality Tent in the Triumph Paddock. Jerry Van Vlack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Thu Sep 4 04:11:56 2008 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 03:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR250 Distributor Message-ID: <174566.28323.qm@web51808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, ???? Does any one have a??TR250 Distributor that?they might want to sell? ?Regards Jim Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 4 05:58:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:58:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Launch Time Message-ID: <4362ae390809040458q2f328f1dy678d01ab88194199@mail.gmail.com> T-Minus 1 hour till the GT6 launches for the Glen. I can't wait. She's loaded down with all my kit, boy I need to buy some smaller stuff. :) See everyone on site late today. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 4 21:20:27 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:20:27 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NW FOT again Message-ID: <090520080320.26795.48C0A57A00097975000068AB2200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> To those NW FOT who are currently email enabled: My potential buyer, T A Moser, has advised that he will be partners with a guy named Tim Trolia in the purchase of my TR4. Has anyone heard of this guy? I did receive a deposit today from him, so maybe this is going to happen. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fri Sep 5 08:42:12 2008 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:42:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen Message-ID: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 08:55:44 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:55:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere > on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle > cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken > cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If > anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, > please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph > paddock. > > Thanks, > Jason Sukey > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 5 08:48:33 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:48:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74D5D164@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Have him stop at any good bicycle shop along the way and take his broken cable (and ends) in with him. Make sure it's the sort of place where they have a bike tech on site who actually fixes the bikes. They can make up a cable which will get him where he's going - it'll cost something like $10. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:42 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From zoboherald at aol.com Fri Sep 5 08:59:32 2008 From: zoboherald at aol.com (Andrew Mace) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:59:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen ==AM== I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 10:44:54 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu><006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <008401c90f76$ba05f540$0300a8c0@Desktop> You never know what Ted may have with him Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Mace" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig > > Jason > send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen > > ==AM== > I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > You are subscribed as wensley_tr at comcast.net > > http://www.team.net/archive From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 5 16:54:08 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] WG Friday times Message-ID: Here are some times from Today's qualifying and practice at The Glen. Sam Halkias TR6 2:14.643 Tom Kreger TR6 2;18.429 Bill Warner TR8 2:18.549 Joe Boruch TR3 2:22.885 Jim Stouffer TR6 2:24.550 Tony Garmey TR250K 2:24.989 Bill Warner TR6 2:25.877 Jack Madison TR6 2:31.977 Henry Frye TR4 2:28.781 Jeff Snook TR3 2:28.349 Tony Drews TR4 2:31.553 There are a lot of others that I left out but for a complete listing of all of our guys racing you can go to the SVRA website. I wish I was there but I don't get my motor back from the machine shop until Monday; just a touch too late! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 6 02:52:59 2008 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:52:59 +1000 Subject: [Fot] LIST SERVER TEST Message-ID: List Server Test. Do not Respond. Simply delete. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 WORKS _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 13:31:35 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Sep 6 14:06:01 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:06:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:01:34 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:01:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Cool Can you add any more color rob ----- Original Message ----- From: fasttrs To: fot at autox.team.net ; 'Sam Halkias' Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:54:40 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:54:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Message-ID: Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 6 17:08:34 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:08:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 17:20:46 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:20:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification Message-ID: <2C30CCA7C64B472A8303DBD01206844B@hal9000> I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 17:43:51 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Steve, You can go to the SVRA website, in the event info pull down menu, click on the US vintage Grand Prix. In yellow you will find the "Live" link. They also have a link to the timed sessions. I hope your year is going better than mine. I have spent tons of money on broken motors. Mike _____ From: Gt6steve at aol.com [mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:06 PM To: fasttrs at mindspring.com; fot at autox.team.net; atr6racer at hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 6 18:02:41 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:02:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <40AD3853C1EF41F89CABDE4567D6CAE5@richardiipc> Fellow FoT, I could not make Watkins's Glen this weekend. It's 8:00 Saturday night and I can feel my fellow Friends of Triumph toasting Uncle Jack. I, too, toast a friend, silently and respectfully in my own way. Jack did an excellent job with the life he was given. Those few who may do as well with their lives will also have won that First Overall; a trophy the rest of us can only dream about. Richard Taylor Atlanta From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:24:03 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5292298A-FAAD-4158-8548-B84F8B25AB14@bnj.com> Yup. tony was picking daisies on the last couple of laps so I caught up to him, but catching tony and passing tony are two very, very different things. Pretty cool getting a 2222 in Peyote, #222 On Sep 6, 2008, at 2:31 PM, fasttrs wrote: > I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote > ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > Mike Munson > Bowling Green, KY > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:35:48 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing and Uncle Jack. Peyote is running in typically unbelievable form, pissing off people with much nicer cars as usual. Tony and I ran away from all the other cars in group four pretty convincingly. I couldn't see anyone in my mirrors for the last three laps. Lot of grumpy loti, listers, corvettes, etc. tonight. What fun. I had to open the hood and show some of the racers that it's just a TR3. On Sep 6, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... > I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? > I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the > man. > I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how > I do it. > > All the best to you, all of you! > Bobby Whitehead > #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > > Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 19:41:39 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 19:41:39 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg advance up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 20:47:31 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:47:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C340C3.9080003@bradakis.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice > cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice > drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing > and Uncle Jack. I had meant to stop and get some single malt on the way home, didn't happen. I did, however, go out to the garage and raise a vodka martini to the memory of Uncle Jack and all things Triumph. I really wish I was there and not here. mjb. From emanteno at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 21:24:56 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:24:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <090720080324.28618.48C349880008FAD400006FCA2200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "fasttrs" > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away > from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. Irv From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 21:45:05 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:45:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> References: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Message-ID: <48C34E41.4070207@bradakis.com> rob wrote: > Cool Can you add any more color rob Peyote is silver. The 250K is blue. Sorry, couldn't resist! mjb. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:26:09 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:26:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Sun Sep 7 13:35:28 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:39:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:39:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:21 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:46:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios Message-ID: I keep a 3.65 for the long tracks and a 3.89 for the short ones. At Cal Speedway or Willow I too run out of revs (7800) hence the gearing. I can't imagine you'll ever require a 3.27. In a message dated 9/7/2008 12:36:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, igofaster at charter.net writes: Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:47 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:46:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oops, correction... In-Reply-To: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CADF39994C547C-1520-8C0@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Group 3 race coming up, I have TRs on my mind... Glen -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: Gt6steve at aol.com; FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at att.net Sun Sep 7 13:54:54 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:54:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Message-ID: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 14:58:23 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll probably talk to him today or tomorrow and ask him if he wants to. Mike _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 18:36:06 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:36:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: I guess by now most of you know Smokin' Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 18:43:44 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:43:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: Well, Mike has my second so I should put it out to the entire list. I will happily second Sam for the list and look forward to his inputs...Steve In a message dated 9/7/2008 5:37:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 7 19:37:28 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:37:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Message-ID: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Sep 7 22:50:04 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: Just got home after racing at Portland this weekend. It was my wife Patty's turn to drive the Spitfire, and she finished third out of seven in class. Saturday evening, we were sitting with old friends and talking racing and racing people. It was later than 8PM Eastern, as we were still racing that early, but we did talk about and toast Uncle Jack. I only knew him through the FOT, but sure came to admire and appreciate his character, dedication to the sport and his helping others. Thanks Uncle Jack and thanks to all of you!! What a great group. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bobby Whitehead Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:09 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: fot-request at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 00:45:17 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:45:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 693 URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 04:22:18 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:22:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080322j20dd3711h360c60e54a376157@mail.gmail.com> I will put all the photos up this morning in raw format, can sort later. Video. I will use youtube, but will try and find a way to to get some downloads out. More to follow. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 8 04:54:31 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:54:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <4543665B.2ECA33E0.00159EE9@cs.com> was that cool, or what! watkins glen rocks! on the road to newfoundland Joe A > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: "fasttrs" >> I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. >> >> It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away >> from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. >> >> Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > >Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. > >Irv >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 8 05:02:30 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 4:02:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias In-Reply-To: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080908070230.7NUU3.174262.imail@fed1rmwml41> Fast car, fast driver and nice man, glad to second this nomination. ---- fpspitfire at comcast.net wrote: ============= I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:35:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:37:27 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> BTW, NIKON was my little point and shoot camera which I used on the run. Fri-Sun was shot with the Canon DSLR camera. If you want to download the full res, use the down arrow at the bottom on the page. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 09:52:28 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:52:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809080852l7856b25fvcb2d5c0745b8c4de@mail.gmail.com> That seems appropriate -- Tony just rebuilt Peypte's engine if I undestood Bil correctly. Glad both cars made it there and performed well. 2008/9/6 fasttrs > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran > away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > > > Mike Munson > > Bowling Green, KY > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 12:12:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:12:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: <090820081812.23339.48C56B030001690600005B2B2207020653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Just got home from The Glen. Awesome weekend. There were some mechanical issues in the all TRiumph race, but no skimishes that I am aware of. I think Dick Stockton (TR4) may have lost an engine, and the white #7 TR6 from the northwest (sorry, don't know the name, just the car) dumped all of his coolant, most of which was dropped at pit in and the pit lane. Sam Halkias was as fast as I expected. Tony Garmey was amazing in the TR250. Did I say it was an awesome weekend? Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 14:10:28 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> Message-ID: <6573.69373.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim: Are the advance numbers you are speaking of in addition to the static advance you already have in the motor? If so, the two will add up, and that 33 degree number would scare me. If your static timing is 12 degrees BTDC and you add 33 degrees you are in a land few ever venture with TR motors. I don't like more then 30-32 degrees total advance in any TRactor motor. MG's can handle more, but not TR's. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Jim Gray wrote: From: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification To: "'rob'" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> Cc: "Friends of triumph" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 8:41 PM I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm? it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg? advance? up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try? try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 15:08:22 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out of Florida last January and missed our February driving school because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from Bill about himself. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcdelux at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:03 2008 From: pcdelux at worldnet.att.net (Bill DeWar) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:41:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <004601c911fb$9bdfd1d0$c7544c0c@user90890nvpgh> Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebrities in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and running awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtown celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsports tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event. Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superb until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but he kept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWar Triumph Rescue -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:15 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:41:15 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820082141.3784.48C59BFB0006232E00000EC82200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Second. Welcome, Sam, and thanks for the show on Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 690 URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 16:04:08 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:04:08 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebritiesin attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and runningawesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtowncelebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsportstents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic MotorsportsPub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event.Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superbuntil #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy WilliamsGeorge Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure,Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but hekept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWarTriumph Rescue ____________________________________________________________ Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijlzUCSFkZzRegbTBXIJJv3WcNcx57KqUIFrQTHbFd9HLjSfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 16:22:58 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:22:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com><01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank You A. a grate fix for the non atendies. Just one ?? Were and when is next years Party rob ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos Craig Hope you had fun ---- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Mon Sep 8 16:34:52 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:34:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1659 - Release Date: 9/8/2008 7:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 17:40:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:40:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> What a hoot! I had a great time. Peyote stayed together, didn't get hit by anyone and didn't hit anyone. As usual a fine collection of great FOT people, though I missed all the folks that didn't make it. SVRA put me in group four, which made for a bit of trepidation--I really wasn't interested in getting run over by a Corvette again--or a Lister or something else massive. My times didn't seem all that hot, I felt like I was leaving a second or so in too many corners. I think my driving kind of sucked. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought I was turning something less than 2:20 last time I was here, but we all know what my memory is like. Still, Peyote ran flawlessly all week, even though it's driver might have let it down a little. I enjoyed the re-enactment ride as usual, especially with all the triumphs in town. the organizers decided Peyote wasn't a Triumph and didn't let me run with them, but no matter--a fun ride. Only problem was ground clearance. I left one of my swaybar rod mounts somewhere-- probably on the railroad tracks. We had to cobble one up at the track. Garmey didn't leave me with much hope for a win in group four. He disappeared in the qualifying race while I was trying to get by a couple of corvettes and a Lotus 15. I missed a shift on the start and wound up in tenth or so at the first corner. Managed to get up to fourth pretty quickly, and finally there was only one corvette in front of me but no TR250K to be seen. I got past the 'vette and started putting in some clean laps and finally spotted Garmey, who was picking daisies or writing his autobiography--cruising around saving the car. When I got close enough to be in his mirrors he started spooling up again, and I got some bad breaks in traffic, but I was reasonably close at the end. The timesheets showed the real story though--he had nearly a second on my best lap. If he wasn't snoozing I never would have seen him. Sunday's race I got a good start and chased tony hard for a little while, but he steadily pulled away and I finally lost contact. i decided to save the car and cruised until I saw cars in my mirrors, then I picked it back up and finished second. The track is fun, but I would have liked having someone to dice with. Unfortunately the closest car was a vette and I don't have a great history with those at Watkins Glen, so I decided not to wait for him. Finished second. The Triumph race was right after Group 4, so Tony and I pulled into the entry for the hot pits and Darrell refueled us. I got to my spot (about sixth or seventh I think) at the three minute mark. I got a decent start but the pack going into turn one was five across, mostly snarling TR6's with Dick Stockton's TR4 and Garmey in the TR250K in the mix. I held back a little but got a good run up to the bus stop and stayed in position despite a lot of TR4's and 3's on my ass. Going into the boot I saw Dick's TR4 going back through the pack and looked forward to dicing with him. I moved up behind him just as his engine went BANG and oiled my front wheels nicely. I swung out past him and almost spun, then nearly lost it again in the turn after the boot, tip- toed around for a lap with Henry Frye, George Wright and Randy Williams all threatening to pass. Then I finally got the front end working again and pulled out some daylight. By this time I had lost contact with the TR6 group, and couldn't see much possibility of catching them, so I backed off a little bit and concentrated on driving all the turns cleanly. A lap or so later there was a loud bang from the rear end when I touched the brakes entering turn two and the car lurched a bit. It seemed okay, though it seemed a bit loose. I thought the tires might be going away, so I pressed on. I could see some yellow TR4's behind me when I got to the end of the straights, but there were only two laps to go, so I didn't press too hard. Good thing. It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. Had a great time. Thanks to everyone, great seeing you all. Thanks to SVRA for a great event, kudos to Tim Suddard both for Grassroots' participation in the FOT shenanigans and for getting his TR3 cranking so well. He beat Jeff Snook, and we all know that ain't easy. Congrats to Tony for winning the Kastner Cup, and to Larry Young for winning the Bill Ames Memorial Trophy. And Congrats to all of us for belonging to an organization so chock full of great people. Paraphrasing Groucho, I generally wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me, but FOT is the exception. Disappointing not to get to play with Joe Boruch or Dick Stockton. I think we would have had fun. Joe's TR3 is very reminiscent of my NASCAR TR3, except it's prettier and probably a lot more legal. Joe was turning 2:24's the first qualifying session, I suspect he would have had a lot to show Peyote. The On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Joe Boruch wrote: > I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to > SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have > participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we > decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent > hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending > sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who > offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like > this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and > most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on > repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: > Listers, > > Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all > other TR celebrities > in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and > sounding and running > awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam > packed downtown > celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA > gang and Classic Motorsports > tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer. > (Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports > Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) > They worked hard all event. > Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick > Stockton's TR4 running superb > until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running > great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams > George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. > The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine > failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, > Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil > leaks all weekend but he > kept at it. > Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle > Jack . > > Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! > > Bill DeWar > Triumph Rescue Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:21:33 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:21:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Wedges In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just got home this evening. I got lots of pictures of the Group 44 TR8 and Peter Bukowski's TR8 as well as Bill Emery's TR7. Got some video of the 44 car running on Friday when it was in the pits. Unfortunately the engine seized while qualifying, ending the weekend. Too bad because Brian Redman was supposed to drive it in the TRiumph feature. Bob Tullius was supposed to come, but was unable to fly in due to all the hurricanes coming and going. Peter's car worked great all weekend and he was pleased with it's performance. The new engine was just being broken in and Peter didn't want to push it too much. I also got a lot of video including the entire Triumph feature from turn 1. Will try to get it together somehow to show. It is on tape right now so have to burn it to disk first. A terrific weekend with many thanks to Joe and Jan Alexander for all the work they put into the weekend as well as to any who worked on the great T-shirts including Ted handling all the logistics....had a lot of comments from many asking about the t-shirts. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> Message-ID: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 19:40:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 20:40:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower > eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in > single shear because it was binding. > > We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a > coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race > and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have > had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool > considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, > four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to > give Sam any trouble. > > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > Paul > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:52:13 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:52:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 2359350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Sep 8 20:15:06 2008 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Was Sam driving his SCCA car? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Babcock To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit.? As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up.?http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 ? On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: ?It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding.?? ? We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube).? I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble.? ? What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't? go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then?when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. ? ? Paul ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 20:49:50 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com Thu Sep 4 17:20:02 2008 From: ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com (Ralph Steinberg) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 19:20:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VRG Historics at Thunderbolt! Message-ID: <002301c90ee4$c2652270$472f6750$@com> Ok, The Glen is pretty much in the bag by now and you either survived it or you didn't but either way I have a race for you. 3 days of track time, so plenty of time to sort out whatever you broke at the Glen or to just have fun. A brand new track, easy to get to from anywhere and an event run by a club and event chair that know how to put on a race! Mark Palmer and the VRG, yes the same people that put on the races at New Hampshire, PVGPA BeaveRun, Turkey Bowl, the Glen in October. are running an event at the new track in Millville NJ. September 19,20, 21 We will be having vintage racing on the Lightning course, a car show, a vintage war birds fly in, and for those who still feel the need to do something else SCCA will be running on the Thunderbolt track. A great party is planned at the air museum and Mark probably has other things up his sleeve. Come out and join us we will accept any approved racing Triumph, regardless of year, so in other words TR2 through TR8 plus Spitfire, and GT6. Obviously your car must meet the VRG safety standards but we have room and classes for cars that may not normally meet all VRG eligibility rules. (note I said normal eligibility rules not safety) for more info please contact Mark Palmer his contact info and more info on the event is available at www.vrgonline.org Ralph Steinberg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 21:51:41 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:51:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080909035159.CA4BD1878D3@autox.team.net> I'll second! The Texas (and Oklahoma) bunch is a great group of people, good to add one. - Tony At 04:08 PM 9/8/2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our >loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out >of Florida last January and missed our February driving school >because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished >the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his >required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. >May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from >Bill about himself. >Thanks - Ed - >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:05:07 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:05:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Message-ID: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D At 02:35 PM 9/7/2008, Bobby Whitehead wrote: >Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was >test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned >my lesson by now... >With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was >shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well >into turn 1A... lots of top end... >Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm >redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my >foot out of it. >Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I >should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of >horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... >If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked >diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in >place or should I remove them? >Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an >overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? > >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:10:45 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:10:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041049.8839F18798B@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:18:43 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:18:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 23:25:47 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:25:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Any thoughts on coating a metal gas tank? Message-ID: <000201c9123c$8e799440$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know what is best to coat a metal gas tank with the new blends of gasoline especially in California? Thanks for any thoughts. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3068 bytes Desc: not available URL: From malaboge at aol.com Tue Sep 9 00:26:40 2008 From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:26:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: GT6 carb issues In-Reply-To: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE05C26B0CC47-EEC-26BA@webmail-ne02.sysops.aol.com> Gas guzzlin?friends, One of the big issues on many cars that I have found is a fuel system that just doesn't deliver when really needed.? A fuel pressure gauge that reads as close to the carbs as possible will quickly tell the story.? Too many motors are running lean at sustained RPM's.? Every motor that I've dynoed has been overjetted with the RB needles. I'm here at sea level,?and the RB's have way too high a F/A ratio on my motors.? When in doubt (better rich than lean) I've used them until I could actually tune the motor and then it always put out more poop with leaner needles (currently running in the 190 HP range). You say that the float level is at 3/16.? If that is a static measured distance ala factory style measured settings, my limited experience has been that NO static float level is relevant to real world float levels.? In situ inspection of float levels in the jet is the only relevant setting.Basically run the fuel level as high in the jet as is possible without "slosh" out of the jets in corners.? This will take some tuning on your part, but is easy to do?to make both fuel levels the same in each carb.? The other issue is foaming of the fuel and once again leaning out.? Use a 45 DCOE soft mount to mount the SU's to help alleviate this. HS-6's are great carbs and can deliver way more than your 2 liter motor should require Feelin fuelish here ... ????????????????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:46:04 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:46:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> References: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I run 35 total advance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:19 PM, "Tony Drews" wrote: > As I recall, I've got about 12 degrees at "idle" (a bit over 1000 > rpm), straight line "curve" to 32 degrees at 3000, then slightly > increasing advance as the RPM's increase from there. I think it's > 34 degrees at 6k. Not that far off of your settings. > > - Tony D > > At 05:54 PM 9/6/2008, Jim Gray wrote: >> Greetings all, >> I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 >> distributors out of the Nederlands. >> It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. >> The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 >> degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 >> there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the >> throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to >> 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of >> Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed >> the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I >> know I still have some jetting to get through >> but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the >> distributor went in. >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> Jim Gray >> RMVR # 102 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:48:35 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:48:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I assume it was--pretty fast Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 7:15 PM, "Jay Creel" wrote: > Was Sam driving his SCCA car? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Paul MacDonald > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next > lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back > after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. > > As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they > waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was > second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be > talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). >> >> I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 >> race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would >> have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty >> cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for >> fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN >> seconds to give Sam any trouble. >> >> What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He >> didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of >> the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the >> results noticed that one car was missing. >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 9 08:01:04 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 08:06:44 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I meant "on the podium" and in the winner's circle awards cerimony. It looked like the number 3 finisher, Jim Stouffer wasn't recognized as such and the three top cars instead included the 44 car of Bill Warner which finished fourth. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: September 9, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Bill Babcock; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:22:15 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:22:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I could get used to this in a hurry! Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his area as well. He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and wheels around quite well. We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at the races. Do I hear a second? Henry Frye #04 TR4 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:31:57 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:31:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <003a01c91291$32448900$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From dtalbott at archrepro.com Tue Sep 9 09:31:19 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:31:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <000901c91291$1c000110$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Hey, he's an old ski racer to boot. I'll gladly second. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:38:21 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:38:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:54:08 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:54:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <090920081554.5592.48C69C200003BB9C000015D82207021553970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Henry Frye" > Do I hear a second? Second. Tim's a good guy, and belongs here. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 09:55:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:55:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some > more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for > the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily > newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice > after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ > finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track > got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a > brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, > no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the > weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has > not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to > take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big > contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do > that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us > Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 11:18:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:18:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just for Bill Tobin! Message-ID: <4362ae390809091018w281f6eaawc5c75d98b5c7acff@mail.gmail.com> Hey Bill, http://temp.justdrive.ca/P1010334.jpg :) A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 9 12:47:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:47:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Glen Cup presentation Message-ID: <20080909144745.0LTPV.189291.imail@fed1rmwml40> I would appreciate any photos that might be out there on the cup presentation at the Glen last Sunday for use on my web site.. I've got video but no pix. Thanks. -- Never be beaten by equipment From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 9 13:42:57 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:42:57 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ?4-5-6? distributor is only for road cars. Several guys over here did use it in races but they all failed .the last one I know from was the last week end. It was replaced by a lumenition and the car ran again. Better you use a simple Pertronix. Cheers Chris ? who has a broken (crank, piston, block, rod) Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jim Gray Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. September 2008 00:55 An: Friends of triumph Betreff: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 9 15:16:19 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:16:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Fw: [CTRiumph.com] TR6 for sale Message-ID: <20080909.171619.13349.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> This came across on the Connecticut Triumph list. Joe(B) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- This ad is in the Manchester Reminder Community Newspaper.Sept 9, 2008 Triumph TR6 1970 wire wheels, overdrive, many new parts, $3,000, call for details 860-454-7130 FYI, NFI, FredLooking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar For Current Events Calendar visit the CTRiumph WEBPAGE click here: http://www.CTRiumph.com Shortcut to CTRiumph eGroup Home Page click here: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/CTRIUMPH Continue the Legend......... Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Give BackYahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! ToolbarGet it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! GroupsStart a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijmSpS42ziSEsO7yIsx6lUbMJ7XM7xa6K9WwwUmjTPyQX9LoG/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 9 16:01:22 2008 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, ? I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group.? I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. ? Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area,?and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history.? Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. ? I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see.? But what a great event!? I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up.? The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park.? All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. ? Thumbs Up. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 16:04:09 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:04:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > > > > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure > of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe > Alexander. > > > > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared > GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of > your Triumph. > > > > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was > spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But > what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed > up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to > the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I > enjoyed them all. > > > > Thumbs Up. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 16:06:11 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:06:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Pictures Message-ID: Enjoy......caution heavy Wedge content. http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/Watkins%20Glen%202008/ Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1416 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 9 16:13:43 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:13:43 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 small mouth vintage race car for sale Message-ID: <200809091613274.SM01788@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, I bought this car?eight years ago and have finally reached the conclusion that I'm not going to get the time to finish building it let alone get the time to race it. This car was originally turned into a vintage race car in the early 80's and raced with VARA on the west coast.? The previous owner stopped racing it around 1996 to do some frame modifications to it.? He pulled the body from the frame and never got any farther than that.? Joe Alexander trailered the car from L.A. to Dallas for me in 2000.? When I asked the PO what I needed to do to get the car running he told me to bolt the body back onto the frame, hook up the wires, add oil and gas and go racing.? Taking the advice from members of the FOT they suggested that I at least pull the pan and check out the main and rod bearings.? So I did and that led to me finding that the oil pump shaft had sheared and gauled the crank.? Rather than go racing I ended up tearing everything down for a rebuild. Fast forward to 2008 and my wife and I are moving from Arkansas to Kentucky and?I just don't have the time, room or energy to deal with putting the car back together.? I came to the conclusion I "might" be able to give it some attention around 2017 :( This car was a rust free california car that was turned into a vintage racer.? It wouldn't take that much work to convert it back to a street car if desired.? I have a LOT of parts to go along with the car.? I have most of what it takes to convert it to a street car and I also have most of what it takes to complete it as a vintage race car.? If interested contact me for specifics. Thanks, Brad 870-329-1335 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westerneagleracing at att.net Tue Sep 9 17:01:09 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:01:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get a chance. Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the engine rebuild is not going well. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" : -------------- A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr Amici, I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. Thumbs Up. Steve _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 9 17:21:49 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:21:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> What an event! The downtown race re-enactment and the spectacular variety of Triumph cars both in the paddock and in the All Triumph race highlighted the weekend for me. I too had a oily experience but mine was on Thursday. First the oil warning light sender began spraying my leg bringing me in early and then in the Triumph practice I lost an oil cooler line connection (due to a bad choice of hose clamps on my part). The resulting smoke had spectators expecting a blown engine but the accumulator saved the day. Among other things this problem allowed me to meet some of the racing legends like Ed Diehl, Hardy Prentice and Tony Adamowicz. These guys and the rest of the Triumph crews were great to talk to, helpful and just an all around treat to have around the paddock. Henry said it well...... > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this ailment. Oh yeah, the track was fast, fun and challenging. Television does not do it justice. Driving Watkins Glen is awesome. We arrived home a 5 PM central time after an uneventful 26 hour jaunt home. The 4 hours Sunday night, and gaining the central time hour made all the difference. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Sep 9 17:32:47 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:32:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <20080909.173248.3876.8.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I'll support that nomination. Can't have too many GT-6s. Bill 70 GT-6+ ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mDcGeacbWbWKLIotKkhH53eQPBRgm4hEFO3mLSJGb8fdMQS/ From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 17:43:30 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:43:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I'll see what I have when I get home--I'm out paddlig my standup Board right now Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:01 PM, "westerneagleracing at att.net" wrote: > I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from > York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get > a chance. > > Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 > crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the > engine rebuild is not going well. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" > : -------------- > > A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. > > A. > > 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the > pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also > introduced him to Joe Alexander. > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race > prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and > tell us about of your Triumph. > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend > as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely > get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the > Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was > Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All > had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. > Thumbs Up. > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 9 19:35:33 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions.? It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic.? Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well.? I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock.? On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 22:50:31 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RustyTR4 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 04:48:38 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:48:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: I would also like to Welcome Ed into our ranks, I have know him for a long time now, and he is a past president of the Central Pennsylvania Triumph Club. Matt.. Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 07:58:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:58:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 08:13:35 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <002301c9134f$6a16e800$1502a8c0@Belkin> I'm in. I'll bring two cars two drivers. m www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 10 08:17:52 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:17:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: In a message dated 09/10/2008 8:59:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > Yeah...often the same with May and September events at ROAD AMERICA. You should bring mufflers, mittens, babushkas, galoshes and all that stuff...just in case. Could be 80 degrees...could be 30 degrees. We'll be there the week end after next for VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. But as a matter of fact, usually we get gorgeous Indian Summer weather. You all should come. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 08:28:50 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:28:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO Message-ID: <20080910143208.EPRE774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Certainly a testament to the safety of modern race cars! You can see the driver WALKING to the ambulance in the 20th pix down. >http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f68/crash-mid-ohio-scca-t2-nissan-61500/ > From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 08:49:01 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:49:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: Hey! That's in my new back yard! If you need any help in the lobbying effort... let me know! Greg Greg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: quicktr4 at comcast.net To: Billb at bnj.com; henry at henryfrye.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:36:09 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:36:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 09:47:16 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:47:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: If we decide on Portland, or any other west coast track for that matter I too will help out as much as I can. I ran in the CRC this year for the first time. My first SOVREN event and I had a great time. HMSA won't let me run, but SOVREN had no problems with my car. Tons of track time, but enough free time to check out the 700+ British cars and the swap meet. The event was very low key and the driving was very clean. They decided to eliminate the night time drags this weekend, so that added a lot more paved pit area. There was plenty of open pit space, so adding 30-40 Triumphs shouldn't be a problem IMHO. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:59 AM To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV . Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:53:31 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100853q26684110ha94548a0f49fa504@mail.gmail.com> I got to examine this car in Seattle at a track day once. Saw it on the track first and did not know what it was. Saw it in the pits and took a look. Was blown away when I saw it was a TR6 engine. What really was impressive is that, as I recall, it has a belly pan giving it good airflow underneath. Now that Tony Garmey has won the Kastner Cup, I hope he will join in some of our FOT discussions. He is a member of FOT is he not? If not that is a nomination needing to be made -- and Bill Hart also. He owns that car and I think he drove a Tr powered Lister in the event. 2008/9/10 Shane Ingate > Henry Frye wrote: > > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > > his chances! > > Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K > and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than > Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own > right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of > god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. > > From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. > I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, > and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame > as does Dave Wingett. > > I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have > seen > does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the > aerodynamics > of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the > steel/plastic of > the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and > track > as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, > and thus > more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the > Kastner-Brophy > TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front > suspension of > the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top > of > the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear > end, > but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better > than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. > > In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: > 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; > 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; > 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. > > Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt > to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. > > Shane Ingate > > ------------------------------ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn > Now > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:57:18 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:57:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close ration gears I got from BFE. Chuck The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 10:03:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:03:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15A98911-1694-427A-ACD7-3CB750264E78@bnj.com> Tony owns Horizon racing in Apple Valley, which is a couple of exits east of Pacific Raceways. I've added him to this email. On Sep 10, 2008, at 8:57 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next > year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am > thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close > ration gears I got from BFE. > > Chuck > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 10:21:19 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:21:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Followup on that Z-car crash Message-ID: <20080910162122.XUHS6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Here is the in-car video and the drivers write-up of what happened >More pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffdegrieck/MidOhioSept2008 >In-car video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvdaMMrmkF8 > > >Hey all, here are the pics of my crash at mid-o >this wknd. Data said I was going about 95mph >when I went off the back straight before 7. Some >kind of brake failure. Had brakes for a split >second then nothing. Slowed from 130 down to 95. >Someone said I flipped about 9 times. >Cartwheeled over the gravel trap and catapulted over >the tire barrier and then over/through a 18 foot >fence and ended up in the spectator area. >Officials said they have never seen a car go >that far out or seen a crash like that at >mid-ohio. I?m completely fine though, just a >small bump on head. Can't say the same about the >Z. Thanks to everyone out there that helped me >out especially cat killer, ralphy and ed. > >Yes, i had a hans on. That's what probably gave >me the bruise on my forehead. Hans stopped my >helmet but my head smashed into the inside of my >helmet. I had a racetech seat with wings and >head bolsters. Did not have a net on the right. >Had a 5 point harness (2 groin belts combine >into one buckle). Car never really had a hard >impact. Just kept on doing cartwheels over a >long distance dissipating the energy. Looking at >the in car video looks like instinct took over >and i tried turning at the end of the straight >so i started flipping almost before i left the concrete. Should of >gone off straight into china beach and hopefully >had the gravel slow me down b/f hitting tire >wall. Thing that bothers me the most is not >knowing what happened to the brakes. Childs is >conducting a csi investigation. My data showed a >1.2 G slowdown at the 400 mark just like always >but only for a split second. Pedal felt good. >Then my G's gradually dropped to 0. I remember >lifting and pushing in the pedal again and the >data showed my G's came back up to .7 then >quickly dropped back down to 0 before i turned >the car and flipped. I don't ever remember the pedal just hitting the floor. >Brake fluid reservoir was still filled after the >crash. Looking at the in car video, the car >really shimmied at initial braking, almost >looking like the rear brakes were working but >not the front. Only evidence we have so far is >on the front left wheel, the rotor had a weird >discoloration and was completely scoured and gouged as if >the caliper was stuck. I don't see how this >happend though b/f the crash though b/c the car >was pretty dead on straight, not drifting to the >left as you would expect so maybe it somehow got >scoured after the crash. Car does have ABS but I >don't think it ever activated. Braking was >totally fine going down the keyhole just prior. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 11:06:33 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:06:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave, There should be a recall on that car; the airbags did not deploy. ;) Cheers, Shane _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 11:30:41 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation packages. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mqDcMS7NUuCMdn3yJjqrgC8DCyDQdTNirvLbGHR9yxoPFzU/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 12:40:40 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 15:20:56 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:20:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No. It was older than that, mid '80s? Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nKHL1QGUohpd0fF0Xn8K9a9nqIBdCIUEMuMqUWBDdxRAEfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:46:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine top end. On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? > No. It was older than that, mid '80s? > Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:13 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 16:01:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 10 16:45:41 2008 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:45:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors and Wilwood calipers. Allen On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. > First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's > a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 > HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an > aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have > a fine top end. > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >> Bill >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >> packages! >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Jody & Allen Washatko W51 N664 Highland Drive Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 17:04:13 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/  Next Year ? Message-ID: <380-22008931023413643@M2W044.mail2web.com> thanks to all who participated at the GLEN. it would be great, if all who attended and entered, thrEw out a paragraph on their impressions and experiences. i left well pleased with the outcomes on all fronts. except that pesky valve stuck permanentley in the crown of MIKE BELFER'S piston. (sorry, STEVE) now jan & i are on the atlantic ocean and arriving in NEWFOUNDLAND shortly. UNCLE JACK will be running the TARGA NEWFOUNDLAND in spirit with the outright winner of the 2007 TARGA. Yes, the car will have the UNCLE JACK decal on it. 1969 BMW 2002 I think he will be pleased. jan & joe....five hours from St. John, NL Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net, andre at gt6.ca, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 17:47:44 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:47:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C85CA0.8040603@verizon.net> I keep thinking back many moons ago, about 1977. I saw the TR250K for sale at a swap meet at Los Alamitos (horse) Racetrack for something like $7500. Thing is, I actually had that much in the bank. I also remember passing on some early '60s Ferraris in the $4-5K range. Oh well, that's life in the big city. Cheers, Kurt O. Allen Washatko wrote: > Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors > and Wilwood calipers. > > Allen > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. >> First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a >> 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? >> Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero >> standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine >> top end. >> >> On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >>> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >>> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >>> packages! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ >> / >> / >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > *Jody & Allen Washatko* > > W51 N664 Highland Drive > > Cedarburg, WI. 53012 > > USA > > > tel. (262) 375-6888 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:00:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:00:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:14:36 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:14:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910201436.LBLHA.216745.imail@fed1rmwml40> You are wrong in a couple places. The frame is indeed a stock Triumph frame. The suspension parts also so we could try a get the factory to build the car. The body is aluminum not plastic. The track is stock TR-250 / TR-4A. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -- Never be beaten by equipment From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 18:31:08 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:31:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1147 (six-port) cylinder head primer, anyone? Message-ID: Can any of you of the early Spitfire persuasion give me a primer on the "good" and/or "better" cylinder heads? I'm really interested to know about casting numbers AND stamped numbers, what the differences are, why the 303014 (casting number, I think) head was once banned in SCCA Production racing but is now allowed again and what's so special about that particular head...in short, any such details you'd care to share. I know someone once told me that one or more of the 948cc heads was good as well; unfortunately, I lost the details on that in a long-ago computer crash. Thanks for any and all insights! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:34:49 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:34:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910203449.U1U73.217075.imail@fed1rmwml40> Well again there a little to be corrected. It made just over 200bhp on the engine dyno and had a ton of torque.The windscreen is that shape because we did not have enough money to make our own dsign so we used a glass that Pete had already used in his Samauri Hino special. It fit, okay and looked great. Pete's detail work was always great. I've written tons about this car in all my books. By the way it was on the cover of Competition Press (Aurtoweek) twice twenty years apart. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -- Never be beaten by equipment From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 10 19:23:00 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Message-ID: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video Message-ID: > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:53 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=P1010325 .flv Try this one ...better link. Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul MacDonald [mailto:macdonaldp at rogers.com] > Sent: September 10, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Fot > Subject: FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video > > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:48:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 20:39:46 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:39:46 +0000 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions Message-ID: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 21:37:01 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:37:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <380-2200894113371175@M2W003.mail2web.com> :-) SECOND! Original Message: ----------------- From: David Talbott dtalbott at archrepro.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 To: kaskas at cox.net, Chasgee at aol.com, Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:39:58 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:39:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: Yes, all are welcome (doesn't have to be a real Group 44 car), but we already have about ten Group 44 cars committed including Bill Warner's TR8. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 6:02:14 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Tim > ? > What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? > ? > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM > To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? > > We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also > have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against > the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! > > Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:49:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:49:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 21:56:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. I'll second that. Paul MacDonald -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:01:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:01:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. > ? > I'll second that. > ? > Paul MacDonald > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Cc: kent at auto-restore.com > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, > owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring > the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 > GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a > lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 22:09:39 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:09:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091120080409.25205.48C89A0300045BE0000062752200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. I've seen his car, and it IS insanely fast. Second. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: GRMTim at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:50:56 +0000 Size: 646 URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Wed Sep 10 22:12:18 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The CRC at Portland in 2009 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C91@server.Triumph.local> It looks like you have some real momentum going here Bill, it sounds like a good plan to me. Assuming you get SOVERN's blessing, I'd say run with it. Would anybody from the east be interested in going if we figured out some sort of affordable transport for our cars? From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:16:00 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 22:26:54 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:26:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46CAEDEB-5B6F-4EB6-8A20-FEF448E4534F@bnj.com> I doubt they will have problems. I never have understood what that gutted interior stuff is all about, If your car has 1967 elements then it makes sense to say 1967, but the best guys to ask are John James, Jeff Quick, and Tony Garmey since they have direct knowledge of what SOVREN wants for production cars. On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:39 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:59:31 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:59:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: I sure like the sound of it as there is NO WAY I could make Portland. It would be as tough as The Glen but the Mitty is more in the ball park!! Besides, why reinvent the wheel? A lot of the leg work has already been done and there did seem to be a question or two about SOVREN. Just my 2 cents and not worth that but I have a much better shot at making the Mitty than something way NE or way NW. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 23:43:51 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? References: Message-ID: <003c01c913d1$5f19f8c0$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> the reason the tr250k is so fast is the talent behind the wheel. tony is a remakable driver and can make an also ran car run upfront. not that the tr250k is an also ran.the standing joke in the pits is if you want to take 5 seconds off your lap times just have tony drive it.the tr250k is a very good car very neat to see it run. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:05:37 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:05:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:07:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:07:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT nomination check on Phil Hyer Message-ID: <8CAE215C6B1E03E-9EC-26D9@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Phil lives in South Fla & recently got an early TR-4 that we are getting ready for him to race. He was nominated to FOT a month or two ago, and is apparently not on the email list. Is there any way to check? His email address is- philhyer at gmail.com Thanks, Glen From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:41:31 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:41:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Message-ID: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 06:18:53 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:18:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 06:29:32 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:29:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 11 06:35:58 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:35:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> References: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <963DFD36727F4C349E3A3274D766E6A2@richardiipc> Yes, _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Marshall Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:45:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:45:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll give a loud amen on this event. The Group 44 Reunion, the Mitty, the great hospitality of our hosts from Classic Motorsports, the large field of Triumphs in the east and southeast that will attend and, for me at least, being able to hold it to a week away from work makes it a no-brainer. As appealing as the Sovern event sounds, and as much as I would want to be there and race with the left coast TR's, the tow to Portland is a long one and I would have to agree with Gary that I doubt I can make it. I did buy a ticket to the 102 million dollar Tennessee Lottery on the way home from the Glen. Maybe I can fund the trip for everybody. I'd better check those numbers. Bob K. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:06 AM To: GRMTim at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:48:30 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 11 07:26:17 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:26:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080911132625.667CF18765E@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 07:27:07 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:27:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I?m sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence J Bob **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 07:43:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:43:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand your situation and I hope you don't mind me having fun with it. 12 years ago when I started racing my 3 kids were in band, soccer, football and basketball and finding time to race was a challenge. Now one is married, an in 2 years the other two will be out of college. I'd go back if I could. ________________________________ From: Group44TR7 at aol.com [mailto:Group44TR7 at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:27 AM To: Kramer, Robert Cc: fot at autox.team.net; trrace at jeack.com.au Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Thu Sep 11 08:23:19 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:23:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Marshall > Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion > > Is the Mitty an HSR event? For those of us with short memories, we did the Mitty as our feature event a few years ago, I think it was 2005. Yes, it was a an HSR event then, I assume it continues to be an HSR event. HSR does things different than what we are used to seeing here in the east. I know it annoyed some folks, but it didn't stop me from having a great time. But, my vote for our feature event will always be to go to a club event, not a festival event. We tend to get more track time and have the opportunity to enjoy each others company, as opposed to being drawn away with other activities. I am not trying to put down the fantastic weekend we just had at the Glen, and all the efforts of Joe Alexander, Jack Woehrle, Tim Suddard, et al. I had a blast. And the fact we had such little attrition is probably due to the fact we didn't get a lot of track time! So maybe there is something to say about that... But for me, I will always vote for an event that is heavy on track time and light on fluff. No matter how much fun the fluff is, I enjoy driving my car more. To restate the obvious, there is no reason we can't support a west coast event AND an east coast event. The CSC sounds like a hoot. I hope some of us out east can figure out how to get cars there. The Group 44 reunion at the Mitty sounds great as well. I'm sure it will be well attended. I don't have a May event on my race schedule yet, I'd consider it. Road Atlanta is a great track. What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:12 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-220089411142712558@M2W026.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:17 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 08:47:39 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:47:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Thu Sep 11 08:53:15 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 08:54:27 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Henry Frye Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion << What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! >> Maybe that needs to be our non-festival east coast target event. It's long on track time, low on cost and just about the best venue anyone could want. It sure was fun last time. Don From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 11 08:55:11 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. A. 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 08:58:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C066B7A-19EE-42C4-8A1C-98DBF887336C@bnj.com> The gene pool of my family is very shallow, but I assume Newfoundland contains many such genetic mud puddles. On Sep 11, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:13:18 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:13:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:36:01 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Thanks Cary, I am trying. The dates are May 1-3 2009 with an optional test day on the last day of April. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Tim ? ????????Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top?billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar.?If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. ? ? ????????My challenge has been and will likely continue to?be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? ???????????????????????? ? Cary ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:36:28 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:36:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it into the wall trying to get back on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek I liked Schumi but tell me the difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately >get back in the lead. > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > >Joe C. > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but >this is one that may be worthy... >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:38:02 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:38:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/08 8:30:53 AM, ofbracing at nefcom.net writes: > Is the Mitty an HSR event?? > Yes. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:47:01 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> ??? Did you ignore the footage from on-board Lewis that showed Kimi clearly pulling away from him and then Lewis darting up the inside into La Source and outbraking Kimi? Kimi's tires were crap at that point in those conditions. Kimi did not even make an attempt to cover and instead moved way wide while allowed Hamilton to easily take the corner. Kimi may have been hoping his later apex into La Source would give him a better exit and/or see Lewis pushed wide. Neither happened. At 08:40 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I realize that. But it was because Hamilton illegally passed him that put >Kimi in the position to have to force it in order to catch up. > >Joe > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of David W. Riddle >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:36 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >Joe, > >Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish >and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it >into the wall trying to get back on. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 > >I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard >from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek > >I liked Schumi but tell me the difference > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c > > >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off > >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately > >get back in the lead. > > > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi > >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd > >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > > >Joe C. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > >To: fot at autox.Team.Net > >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > >this is one that may be worthy... > >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:48:17 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:50:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:50:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:53:24 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:53:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <573F95D8-4890-4CAF-B662-A6D658C61EEE@bnj.com> Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Of course I'll cover the shipping cost any way you prefer. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:48 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the > remains?? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:57:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:57:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Message-ID: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > >> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of >> all >> the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position >> to >> Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and >> this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. >> I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a >> dozen >> times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry >> tires >> & wet track conditions. >> Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he >> was >> well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he >> would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone >> off course. >> I also understand that there are some who just don't favor >> Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" >> issues of late... >> I respect your opinion >> Thank you! >> Glen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Curry >> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net >> Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while >> Hamilton >> did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not >> back >> off >> enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to >> immediately >> get back in the lead. >> >> In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused >> Kimi >> to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. >> >> I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim >> 3rd >> place. That would have been justice in my opinion. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >> To: fot at autox.Team.Net >> Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably >> didn't >> catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, >> but >> this is one that may be worthy... >> Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. >> There >> are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! >> >> http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:06:55 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:06:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the published results that go to the media. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:39 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:08:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting any "Vettes". Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3129431A-3777-4304-B397-04FD029888AB@bnj.com> Hmmm. I think you missed a couple. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:06 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. > > Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" > classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the > published results that go to the media. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com > writes: > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:07:46 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race >and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep >back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in >the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain >the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the >Stewards agree with my assessment. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:09:25 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:09:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:11:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:11:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:08 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting > any "Vettes". > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. > > My address is: > > Bill Babcock > 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. > PMB 377 > Portland, OR 97229 > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:18:26 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:18:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> But then F1 (and other road racing) would be more processional than it already is. The curb delineates the racing surface (but is also part of that surface). Hitting or running over the curb (for any reason) should not be cause to lower the car counts during the race. There are already rules to address this. You go over a curb and gain an advantage you give up the position and try again. This weekend I will be instructing at PIR (the one in Phoenix) and as I tell the students in the classroom sessions. Your fees cover the use of the track. The curbs are part of that surface. Use them. At 09:09 AM 9/11/2008, Joe Curry wrote: >I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those >areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within >the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, >people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if >they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > >Joe > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:19:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:19:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner-- very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake > a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? > > Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The > issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had > not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for > the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. > > Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your > faulty :) memory. > > You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and > Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. > > At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch >> the race >> and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let >> Kimi creep >> back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in >> front in >> the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to >> immediately regain >> the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. >> Clearly the >> Stewards agree with my assessment. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:14 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:24:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those > areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within > the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, > people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if > they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > > Joe > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM > To: Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the > track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are > not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in > Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:30:22 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:30:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911163132.JWQS8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, that's just silly. Yes, Hamilton was in front of Kimi coming out of the chicane. Hamilton lifted on the front straight. Kimi pulled his entire car in front of Lewis because he was going faster then Lewis so even if Lewis got back on the gas to accelerate he will still be slower than Kimi. Lewis moved to the right to try and go up the inside into La Source. Kimi moved WAY wide to the left allowing Lewis to easily take the corner entry. Lewis was able to hold on to maintain the pass on corner exit and did not get pushed way wide. What's faster in a race to the next street light? A Yugo with a running start or a Vette sitting still? I like Kimi too as a driver and favor Ferrari over McLaren as a team (although I do miss little Minardi) and it was an exciting race. The stewards were wrong and Kimi only has himself to blame for throwing his car off track two times in the same lap with the second time putting it in the wall. At 09:12 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Look at it this way, Kimi went around the chicane scrubbing off speed while >he did. Hamilton straight-lined it and therefore had more speed built up. >He could lift slightly allowing the front of Kimi's car to pull ahead and >then get right back on the throttle and pull around. This is precisely what >he did. > >Joe From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 10:33:00 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <385994.21274.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They could add the big spikes to the wheels and allow the other drivers to hurl chains like in Ben Hur --- On Thu, 9/11/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition To: spitlist at cox.net, Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 11:24 AM Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Thu Sep 11 10:36:03 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty From: JWoesvra at aol.comDate: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.comCC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack WoehrleSVRA Technical Directorjwoesvra at aol.com803-463-5388FAX 803-794-8747701 Center StreetWest Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:41:50 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:41:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves. Far be it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. Joe _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:44:01 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:44:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:45:58 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:53:30 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:53:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: So, lets see if I understand all this. 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you pass a car when doing so. 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the car you passed get back ahead of you. Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight through the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass anyone in the process. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:35 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> References: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2470AB41F5D-151C-132F@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> "Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable." Yes! We are in complete agreement on that! The point of the matter is that Hamilton did gain an advantage (intentional or otherwise) in cutting the chicane, & he promptly gave up his position. If the stewards didn't agree that what he did was proper, then they should have taken action at the time. Like the man told me once, we pay for the entire racetrack so we should get our moneys worth, and use all of it, and I have to admit that it feels good to put that inside wheel up on the berm when the weight is transferred to the outside... but I seriously doubt that Hamilton intentionally went up on a WET PAINTED berm, thinking that he was gonna pull off a hero move & make it stick. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree on this one, the world would be very boring if we all thought the same... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:41 pm Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. ?Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves.? ? Far be20it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. ? Joe ? From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low ? Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I?think?that?the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in?those areas because?they are supposed?to be?there?to keep?the cars within?the confines of?the?track.? If?they raised?the level of?the kerbs, people would not?be so aggressive in?trying?to pass knowing?that?if?they don?t?pull itA 0off,?they will lose?their suspension. ? Joe ? From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]?On Behalf Of?Bill Babcock Sent:?Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To:?Bill Babcock Cc:?fot at autox.Team.Net;?fubog1 at aol.com Subject:?Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't?think Kimi was wrong?to shove?Hamilton?off?the?track in?the chicane either. In a competition at?that?level you are not?owed racing room, you have?to?take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes?Hamilton?would have lost?his right?front?wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great?race,?torturous ending. I also consider?Hamilton's moves?to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great?driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at?first?and?then pulled out?a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first?lost?the lead and?then hit ?the wall. But?Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't?see how?the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It?was?spectacular?driving, well within?the cut?and?thrust?of competition and in full compliance with?the rules of surrendering?a gain made off?track. I believe?the FIA has added an element?of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness?to?the entire F1 scene. I don't?care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but?his leadership of?the FIA has damaged?the sport?by moving victory from?the driver's seat?to?the steward's fat?ass. For?that?I'd support?giving him?the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:13 AM,?fubog1 at aol.com?wrote: Well certainly?there are?those who hold?that?opinion, not?least?of all? the FIA... but...?the facts remain?that?he DID give up?the position?to? Kimi, I don't?think?there is a specified distance for?the lead, and? this was confirmed with both?the?team & race officials at?the?time. I watched?the race, and?the replay of?the last?3 laps at?least?a dozen? times, and I can't?see how he put?Kimi out. Also20consider?the dry?tires? & wet?track conditions. Personaly I?thought?that?it?was a fine example of driving since he was? well alongside Kimi when he went?off;?the alternative being?that?he? would surely have?taken both of?them out?of?the race, had he not?gone? off course. I also understand?that?there are some who just?don't?favor? Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of?the politics and "soap opera"? issues of late... I respect?your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To:?fubog1 at aol.com;?fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at?Spa online petition I will NOT sign?that?petition. ?The way I saw?the situation, while? Hamilton did back off a bit?and allow Kimi?to get?back in front, he did not?back? off enough?to give up his inertia and maintained it?long enough?to? immediately get?back in?the lead. In my humble opinion,?the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused? Kimi to crash out?and?that?does nothing?to erase?that?outcome. I would have black flagged?Hamilton?and not?even allowed him?to claim? 3rd0D place. ?That?would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of?fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To:?fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition I realize?that?a lot?of you were busy last?Sunday, and probably didn't catch?the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one?that?may be worthy... Last?night?there were approx 15,000,?this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot?of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock 0D Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Edito r Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:06:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is the rule. Everywhere. Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. But that is the rule. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > So, lets see if I understand all this. > > 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons > 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you > pass a car > when doing so. > 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the > car you > passed get back ahead of you. > > > Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight > through > the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass > anyone > in the process. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of David W. Riddle > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner > and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in > front. Lewis did that. > > One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same > chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT > letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. > > A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional > race like Monaco. > > At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from > gaining >> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >> those > kerbs >> (curbs) is what is needed. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:13:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:13:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <8B1BFC87-C5BB-4BFB-B125-610CF723D63C@bnj.com> "Advantaged", by the way, also means lap times, so if someone was blowing the chicane every lap to gain time they would be black flagged or penalized. Also, the rules vary, but in most amateur racing if you run two or four wheels off the racing circuit you might be warned once and black flagged the next time. Blowing the chicane is running off the racing circuit. The pro rules are a little different in wording but identical in intent--it's okay to blow a chicane or run off the racing surface as long as you don't gain advantage from it. On Sep 11, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is > the rule. Everywhere. > > Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that > "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the > yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you > blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you > have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower > to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. > > But that is the rule. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> So, lets see if I understand all this. >> >> 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons >> 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you >> pass a car >> when doing so. >> 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let >> the car you >> passed get back ahead of you. >> >> >> Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight >> through >> the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't >> pass anyone >> in the process. >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of David W. Riddle >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner >> and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in >> front. Lewis did that. >> >> One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same >> chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT >> letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. >> >> A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional >> race like Monaco. >> >> At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >>> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from >> gaining >>> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >>> those >> kerbs >>> (curbs) is what is needed. >>> >>> Joe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 11 11:36:41 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> We spent Monday in NYC, so just got back to Tulsa last night. We had a wonderful weekend. I had originally planned to fly in and hang out, but at the last minute Tom was available to drive, so we brought our car (#16 yellow TR3). We arrived about 6:00 pm Thursday only to find out we couldn't get into the track due to closed registration. Bob Lang was in a similar predicament. Luckily Jack Woerhle came down to the gate and got us in. Thanks Jack. We missed the Thursday practice, so Tom was already behind the learning curve. On Friday's session, he was not far behind the other SW/FoT, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer. The Friday afternoon reenactment was amazing. We could not believe the number of spectators and the support by the local community. We also had ground clearance issues and the tailpipe got knocked loose behind the header. Saturday morning was wet, but we ran anyway. The car came in with a bad miss. For those who don't want to wade through the details, I'll put the problems and diagnosis down at the bottom. We missed the Saturday afternoon session, so the Triumph feature was only Tom's second time on a dry track. He was doing well at the beginning, and the SW/FoT were running together (Hilyer, Kramer and Young). Tom says we were faster on the straights, but they did better in the turns. Unfortunately, the overdrive went out in the middle of the race. I've now got a 4:55 rear, so the overdrive is essential. Due to the loss of speed on the straights, Tom fell back at that point and was eventually passed by Richard Brown's Spitfire. I think we may have fried the overdrive during the reenactment due to the loose tailpipe. Bill, do you still have those overdrive parts? I may need them. I was watching the race at the toe of the boot. Saw the wonderful three car dice between Frye, Williams and Wright. We saw the spin by Randy Williams and his TR3 sideways in the middle of the track. Then two yellow TR4s went around on each side. It was also great to watch the TR250K - so beautiful and so fast! I was completely overwhelmed during the FoT awards ceremony, when they announced my name for the "Bill Ames, Racing for Life" award. I suppose this has something to do with my being a cancer survivor. I was diagnosed a couple months after our 2006 gathering at Hallett. Fortunately, for multiple myeloma the best treatment center in the world is in Little Rock. After six month long chemo sessions over a one year period the cancer is in complete remission and should remain that way for several years. I would not have made it through this process, if not for the wonderful care by my wife, Sue. Unfortunately, the cancer did a number on my back, so I had to give up driving. Tom has been doing a great job since he took driving duties. He has now gotten married and moved to Albuquerque, making the logistics too difficult, so we are selling our car. I may not be actively racing, but I do plan to stay active with the group, as long as you'll have me. I have never met a better bunch to hang out with. Thank you so much for the award. Larry Young _Saturday Engine Problems:_ First, we discovered a broken rocker pedestal stud. A second one was bent, but the rest of the valve train looked ok. We got that all fixed with the help of spares from Henry Frye and Bob Kramer. Thanks guys. We thought we were home free, but no, the engine was still missing. Discovered no compression on #1. Then, discovered no valve clearance on #1 exhaust (didn't measure the lash, just felt that the rocker was not loose). Reset the lash. Still had a miss. Rocker was still tight, so thought we had no lash. We had about 8 guys hanging around trying to figure out what could be causing this behavior. Is the valve seat going away, causing the valve to recede in the head? Someone noticed that there was very little clearance between the valve retainer and the rocker arm, but we didn't follow up on that. Henry has this really cool bore scope, which seemed to be indicating a problem with the exhaust valve. Tom and I looked at each other, and I was thinking "Oh no. not another Mid-Ohio". We decided to pull the head to check the valve. Couldn't find anything wrong with the valve or valve seat. We were getting a lot of good help and advice from Ed Diehl - how cool is that? Finally, noticed a spot where the rocker had been hitting the spring retainer. Decided that was the smoking gun. A little grinding with the Dremel tool was all that was required. Unfortunately, we went through a lot of work to discover this small problem. We have been chasing a high speed miss (6,000 RPM) for more than a year. We had thought it was fuel, but I believe this clearance issue has been the problem. With all the valve train dynamic calculations I've been doing lately, I should have known there could be enough vibration to cause a problem like this. So, add this to the list of clearances to check. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 11 12:55:46 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:55:46 GMT Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas.? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 12:58:07 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:58:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> References: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Message-ID: You have a 2000 Roadster too? ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas. CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim). (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty. We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster. When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles. What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it. Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck. He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast. Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 13:02:41 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:02:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c91440$fd0908e0$b1191718@computer> On the whole, when there are so many occasions that drivers can get off course and gain advantage, it changes the entire dynamics. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:09 AM To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 14:34:06 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <317355.46066.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Sep 11 14:49:05 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:49:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <380-22008941120495675@M2W038.mail2web.com> Actually, that list can change to "had" one of each Triumph model (plus spares of some!). We have been and are divesting before our impending move to Kentucky! The flaming Isetta is ABSOLUTELY going with us. ;) Susan :) PS -- I met Cim the trucker on this end of the trip and dealt with him in person. He knows old cars and was VERY careful with our baby. When he got here, he had a very rare 195X Dodge with original Indy stickers (???), some sort of huge old special Cadillac, and a Bondurant 'vette in his truck, along with our 2000 roadster. He hauls Ferraris and other exotics and knows a lot of people in the car/racing business. I would trust him with any of our fleet. Original Message: ----------------- From: Ernest Husmann ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net, RKramer at rdoequipment.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 15:36:33 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:36:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 15:44:35 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:44:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301c91457$986cd7b0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> I have an old Newfie joke about a guy learning to drive, but it's too long for this post. Andrea, thanks for your help at the Glen; a good time was had by all. Bill Tobin Erie, PA PS Lunker, your car is in the SVRA website in the Glen photo section.----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] next year > I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... > > With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. > > A. > > 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > > > > Joe Alexander > > Honorary Newfie > > > > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 16:12:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> References: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: <8A75F118-0A28-44B5-825A-733098C7B1B7@bnj.com> I've never seen them get wrapped around the axle about gutted interiors. They don't generally ban a car, they tell you what you need to change and expect to see some progress towards compliance. The exceptions are replicas and cars that are just too far over the line, like my TR3. You shouldn't have a problem--or rather I should say the new owner shouldn't On Sep 11, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's > CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although > like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. > Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively > ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've > also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. > Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be > more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. > > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions > > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 16:43:43 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! ?(in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? ? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 ? In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him.? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 11 16:43:42 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:43:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - I just got home!!! Message-ID: <081301c9145f$d7bd3600$0201a8c0@Bevan> I finally got home today (Thurs) after spending 48 hours in my trailer home trying to work out where I was and the time of day. Flight home to London Heathrow from Boston can best be described as Shake Rattle and Roll. Substantial turbulence most of the way and I had to wait *three hours* to have my in-flight plastic meal as cabin crew had to stay belted as well. Arrival in London in the early hours of Tuesday was just as I expected - dark, overcast and raining - as usual :) But I just want to say one BIG thank you to all you guys and lovely ladies who I met for the first time at The Glen - especially to Joe Alexander (for inviting me there in the first place) and to Bob Lang who took on the practical aspects of actually ensuring I did get there from Boston. Joe, you organised a truly great event, Bob I'm so sorry I fell asleep so soon after leaving the circuit - and stayed asleep for so long! I greatly look forward to seeing as many of you as possible next year when the Charity Drive gets underway and I think I'd quite like to do it in the 250K :) Cheers all, Jonmac Originator of The Triumph Trans-America Charity Drive 2009 www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk An event for full TRIUMPH Enthusiast participation From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 17:04:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:04:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually I believe it was "Hogan's Heroes" Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 17:08:23 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:08:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63FACBC3-3B38-4DE3-B88A-D209F7EC192B@bnj.com> You're both right. I was confusing the play/movie Stalag 17 with Hogan's Hero's (which was loosely based on the movie), and Hogan's antics took place in Stalag 13. On Sep 11, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > -Ed- > > --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 11 17:09:34 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <091120082309.7003.48C9A52E00068DD000001B5B22230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> -------------- Original message from EDWARD BARNARD : -------------- Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Thu Sep 11 17:15:30 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:15:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <036301c91464$493699d0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:14:01 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:14:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091220080014.27125.48C9B449000CE2B8000069F52200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Murphy" I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! I'll second. We need young guys to keep this thing going. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Tim Murphy" Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:11:08 +0000 Size: 734 URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:15:21 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:15:21 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Looking For Road America Crew Pass Message-ID: <091220080015.28979.48C9B49900034D38000071332200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> If you are running the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival and have an available crew pass, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:25:05 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911202505.R6KKI.295072.imail@fed1rmwml30> Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From gp89 at charter.net Thu Sep 11 18:47:41 2008 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:47:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay Message-ID: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:53:33 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:53:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay In-Reply-To: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> References: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> Message-ID: That FOT sticker on the boot lid makes it worth at least the $6K buy it now price. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of gp89 at charter.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:48 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 19:38:41 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:38:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: Two things. first, Hamilton is okay, I hate say it as I am a Kimi fan, but he tried and did the right thing. Second, the Southern Cal guys have a 2000 mile tow also to go to Portland, but have given it a thumb up. Don't let any of them win on mileage alone. From: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koblinger at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 20:06:57 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:06:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48C9CEC1.3000901@verizon.net> Stalag 13 was Hogan's Heroes. Bob Crane, Werner Klemper, Schultz etc, etc. Stalag 17 was William Holden, Otto Preminger and Peter Graves, a real classic. Kurt O. (who watches waaayyyy too much TV) Joe Curry wrote: > > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > *On Behalf Of *EDWARD BARNARD > *Sent:* Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > *To:* JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > *Cc:* fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > > -Ed- > > --- On *Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock //* wrote: > > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com > wrote: > > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Billb at bnj.com writes: > > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, > he pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com > . > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From adcronin at ameritech.net Thu Sep 11 20:34:13 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:54:41 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:54:41 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> Message-ID: They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. Cheers Chris Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:59:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:59:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: I don't agree with you on that video. Schumi was in front so he didn't gain an advantage of position against De La Rosa. So the positions remain the same as before. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 12 05:55:47 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Portland...and Newfoundland Message-ID: <380-220089512115547590@M2W018.mail2web.com> Looks like Portland is it for 2009. I hope to be in the area. I think that John Macartney will be somewhere near Portland at that time on his last leg of the Charity Run, but will need to check the calendar. Uncle Jack & I checked it out a few years ago. It is a sure success. Full Sized Cutout of Uncle Jack in Leisure Suit is a brilliant thought. I still have many folks to thank for The Glen, but my email is sporadic...will try to catch up later. Today we will check out the Targa entries and meet the organizer, Scott Giannou, through our hosts. We will be there for the start of the event. Newfoundland is quite wonderful...I have not found a cod, nor a puffin attractive enough to kiss, but it is forthcoming. Joe & Jan Original Message: ----------------- From: Kas Kastner kaskas at cox.net Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 To: Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:13:51 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:13:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spa race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2E827414A7E-D60-1101@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> McLaren reportedly has the data to prove that Lewis DID lift, and I doubt that they would present the appeal without being able to prove this fact. The other point is that why did the stewards confirm, not once, but twice, that it was a good move, and then penalize him after the race ended? In any event, it sure will be interesting to see what happens... Glen -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton ?wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. ? Cheers Chris ? ? Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient ofA 0their?fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, ?for that?argument?to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed?Hamilton?off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no?inertia?remaining there) and passes on the other side.? ? There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable.? ? Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. ?How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three20time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. ?I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. ?I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. ?It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. ?Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. ? Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com 0A blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:17:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:17:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 12 06:33:26 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:33:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:41:04 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:41:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 07:17:25 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen References: Message-ID: <006401c914d9$e6d81770$0300a8c0@Desktop> OUCH ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: jwoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: JWoesvra at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400 To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 07:47:29 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:47:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks In-Reply-To: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: > A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and > ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at > power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 > rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over > 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 07:59:42 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart > disease) There was a Schultz character in both. Stalag 13 was the funny one. Stalag 17 was a bit more scary... Great movie, but not uplifting in any sense, IMHO. If I recall correctly, the Schulz in Stalag 17 was sort of pushover / winpy guy whereas John Banner in Hogan was a pushover, but more of a teddy bear character. > -Ed- regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 08:03:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <707469.37239.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> BFE supplies the correct plugs to replace them. I have gotten them from Ken before after the originals were lost in vatting. - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) To: RKramer at rdoequipment.com, adcronin at ameritech.net, triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 7:41 AM I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 09:06:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:06:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young To: Greg Solow Cc: FOT Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 09:08:26 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:08:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080912150826.CROD21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 09:24:59 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C "The Book" shows the full oiling system schematic. The TRF parts book shows all the plugs - they're pretty easy to find. That said, there are various plugs in the block. Some are pipe thread little plugs at least two are plugs that are threaded into the block and then peened over (or cut flush) and one (in the back of the block) uses a machine thread - it's pretty much a set screw. But a good machine shop should "know what to do". rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Fri Sep 12 09:32:12 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? Message-ID: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 09:51:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:51:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it. On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Two questions actually... > 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on > the piston? This is not good. > 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a > bad thing. > I'm curious as to how this works in service...? > Glen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Young > To: Greg Solow > Cc: FOT > Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks > > > > > > Greg, > > To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and > then > regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to > reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them > reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a > cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. > Others > on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used > spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that > welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding > requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it > straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the > oven. > > Larry Young > > > > Greg Solow wrote: > > > > > > A good used crank properly race > prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the > journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 > 5 hp as long as > the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the > connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with > steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 10:21:25 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:21:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> References: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30ABD00B0DC-D8-2CA@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> OK I guess that is my question. If the spacers on the pin are locating the rod fore & aft (vs the cheeks), then obviously there are loads going into the piston...? Thanks, Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: fubog1 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it.? On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote:Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young <cartravel at pobox.com> To: Greg Solow <gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com> Cc: FOT <fot at autox.team.net> Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the20crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: ?A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 0?? Greg Solow ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.comblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 12:22:07 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <126040.61209.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And I just got an email from TRF acknowledging they have them in response to my inquiry. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 ----- Original Message ---- From: Randall Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:08:26 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr5racer at btinternet.com Fri Sep 12 13:31:59 2008 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:31:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] No Subject Message-ID: <92806.915.qm@web87114.mail.ird.yahoo.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 14:54:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? In-Reply-To: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <840252.97305.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looks a bit like the Spitfire based Corsa Spyder www.fiorano.co.uk ? Thanks - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: From: Chris Kantarjiev Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 10:32 AM http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 12 15:08:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:08:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last Saturday. http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Cheers From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 15:12:41 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:12:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <48CADB49.6020802@141.com> I don't know, if you ask me I think its a gorgeous picture! By the way, is there anything you want besides fenders? How about boot lids and bonnets? Congrats! Brad Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > > Cheers > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 15:33:58 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <528D507D69D94E5092A49DF3E776E152@jdnet.deere.com> > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Seems odd too that it's the only photo in the article that doesn't identify owners/drivers. Randall From hakhutch at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 12 15:37:15 2008 From: hakhutch at roadrunner.com (Tim Hutchisen) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <006c01c9151f$b9c16ac0$8af4b24c@UPSTAIRSOFFICE> Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! Hutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 15:55:58 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Face it, Henry... you want us all to buy a copy of the print. :-) > Cheers rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 16:05:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:05:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <091220082205.23614.48CAE79F0000700100005C3E2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Hutchisen" > Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! I agree. The passenger looks especially scary. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 17:47:53 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:47:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:09:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry at henryfrye.com writes: With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. ==AM== ...and yet, there's something about Michelotti's design of the TR4 that just looks so ... purposeful in racing trim. Great shot, and kudos to the photographer for capturing it! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Sep 12 18:01:13 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:01:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.loca l> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. - Tony D At 04:08 PM 9/12/2008, Henry Frye wrote: >Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture >that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last >Saturday. > >http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C >ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > >With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose >that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > >Cheers From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 18:30:09 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:30:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <48CB0991.7070001@pobox.com> I agree. Henry you were awsome. Don't sell yourself short. They love yellow. Since I've owned my TR3, it's been on the cover of Victory Lane twice and a major photo in Vintage Motorsports. Tony Drews wrote: > When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got > the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. > > - Tony D > > From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 18:27:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Towing cam (kinda OT) Message-ID: <48CB08EB.1050400@141.com> We're in the process of having the 454 in our smaller 20' Motorhome rebuilt. We plan on pulling a 31' race car trailer with this Motorhome and I've been trying to figure out what cam would provide the best overall performance for our application. I would like one that has good low end torque up to about 3000 rpm and still be reasonable on fuel economy (of course!). I've talked with several cam manufacturers and that seems to just muddy the waters even more. The heads have 2.02 intake valves and 1.76 exhaust valves. The exhaust manifold ports on the head small at 1.625" in size. I've read and also been told that the smaller exhaust ports will help provide better low end torque so I'm planning on sticking with the heads that we have. I'm considering using the Edelbrock Performer intake manifold but can't seem to find a good solution for a cam. Anyone have any real world experience with a good RV towing cam for the 454 with turbo 400 transmission? Thanks! Brad From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 12 18:27:12 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Message-ID: <20080912202712.BY7F9.261419.imail@fed1rmwml39> In the beginning I made it quite clear that the idea was to have the cup available for everyone at one time or another. First was Mosport, Northern and middle upper USA, second was Buttonwillow, Southern Cal and mid Cal, third was Atlanta Southern USA and others for the East, then to Hallet Oklahoma for the Mid-west contingent, then to Utah for the upper mid-west and far west, now to Watkins Glen for the upper Eastern, so now I think it right to go for the upper West Coast for those people that would like to particpate and have the opprotunity to join a lot of fine racers that have been awarded the cup. -- Never be beaten by equipment From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 19:18:54 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Message-ID: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole.? Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep.? Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire?width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator.? The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width.? It appears as if the fan is pulling?half its?air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening.? It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location?to install the fan. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 20:38:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:38:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D8DE33B-0001-4C9D-9AE7-761E57C40461@bnj.com> It doesn't matter too much since the fan is only effective at low speed. It's a very good idea to mount the fan behind the radiator, since installing it in front blocks airflow too much (as I found to my dismay). I wouldn't use the plastic "through the radiator" mounts since they can eventually cause a leak. the plastic can't abrade the metal, but dust that gets between the metal and the plastic can. A lot of the triumphs that exclusively race have no fan, or a small fan to keep the temperature in bounds on the grid. On Sep 12, 2008, at 6:18 PM, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > Listers: > Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 > cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable > speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator > without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" > high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" > and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" > and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock > radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom > 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under > the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" > high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling > half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" > below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of > the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being > forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes > the cooling tasks. > > Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned > at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from > the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think > would be the most desirable location to install the fan. > > Planning & Development Services > A. Daniel Cronin > 248 761-2673 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 12 21:56:36 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:56:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69443D6E9556491F9AB0C726A5D483F3@HPPavilion> Daniel, I have a 1,150 CFM fan behind my radiator and it's located near the top of the radiator. I chose that position because the temperature gradient is greater at the top, due to the hot water entering from the top. With a greater temperature differential, more heat is shed from the radiator with every CFM that passes through the radiator. Mounting - I brazed studs to the outside of the radiator. I also brazed a coupling on the front of the radiator, just above the top of the core, for a modern OEM style fan speed switch to control the fan. I put it on the front of the radiator, so it would not be seen. It's easy to change it through the grill opening. Jack 1960 TR3A _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of A Daniel Cronin Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 6:19 PM To: Friends of Triumph; Triumph List Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location to install the fan. Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:35:58 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:35:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumphs in the re-enactment race at Watkins Glen Message-ID: <000f01c915be$cd7e3620$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Shortcut to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: watch.url Type: application/octet-stream Size: 94 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:47:36 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 1220862277463_f Message-ID: <001501c915c0$6db82aa0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I found this picture on this site: http://www.fotolog.com/digikat/archive Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1220862277463_f.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 50589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Sat Sep 13 16:21:50 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival In-Reply-To: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CC3CFE.9060705@pobox.com> See, there we are. I told you they love yellow. BOB KRAMER wrote: > Have you seen this? > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: > http://www.the-leader.com/news/x802007256/Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 16:33:18 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:33:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison Message-ID: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 17:18:45 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 18:08:31 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:08:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> Message-ID: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> In this case I think that the Shell people put in the full 10% while the other laces say "up to 10%". Less BTU's in alcohol than in gas by a bunch and also corn apparently is cheaper than oil. Wow, what a discovery. I know this, I like 28 mpg better than 24. ---- "Clark W. Nicholls" wrote: ============= We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 20:24:54 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:24:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Here in Massachusetts it is the law that gasoline must have 10% ethanol as an "oxygenator" or some such word. Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Not just Shell (which I use), all gasoline sold in Massachusetts. I think it is similar in California as our new cars are California spec. I'm not sure if it is statewide in NY or other states, but on the trip to Michigan for the VTR event I believe I always filled up with 10% ethanol. (I think 10% is the limit the fuel system on non-flex-fuel vehicles are supposed to use). http://www.epa.gov/MTBE/ Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 13 21:02:03 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:02:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) From britbits at netzero.com Sat Sep 13 21:08:42 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ From lunkercars at earthlink.net Sun Sep 14 01:06:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:06:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Connie, Barley and I still haven't really processed the whole Glen experience yet... probably 'cuz we're not home yet. Thanks everyone for all the great pics and videos that have been posted. As has been said numerous times of the event, the REALLY special part was putting faces and cars to so many FoT names. The road coarse reenactment was truly surreal... the stuff of boyhood dreams to a guy like me. To have a club, a track and a town honor the cars that I happen to be partial to and fortunate enough to own, is a rare alignment of the stars, planets or some-such. A tough act to follow. Thanks so much to Joe, Jack, Tim and Gary and of-coarse Kas along with all the rest who made the event possible. Glad to hear the destination is Portland for next year. Kind of my old stompin' ground. I've never been on the track there but have spectated enough to know it's got to be a fun one. SIR [Pacific?] in Seattle would be great since it's my home town and a track I actually know, but I understand the cluster of such a large event. If it's the weekend before Kastner Cup/Portland I'll likely combine it with that long haul [New Mexico is a long way from anywhere but within reach of most anywhere - put please don't book us a track in Newfoundland Joe]. I kind of figure that if one is in the general neighborhood of a distant place, one ought make the best of it. That theory is why we are now in Brainard Minnesota. After the race we toured up to Niagara Falls with our friends Reno and Claudia who had come for the race [from France - serious Triumph junkies]. We parted ways Tuesday afternoon and headed home. Didn't make it very far that day - I was finally and totally spent. Weeks of 12-14 hour days to allow for time away and getting the car ready after a major freshening, 1900 miles in about 60 hours Abq NM/Glenn NW, a high adrenaline five days at the track and then trying to entertain friends and I was done. Period. Speaking of adrenaline, then there's the story of my shift knob. Sometime on friday or saturday, I came to the realization that a nice gentle up-shift would cost me about 1.5 car-lengths with you guys so enough of that! Well, in sundays feature, I broke the knob clean off... I don't mean another cheapo knob lost it's set screw or anything, but broke the shank of the shift leaver - don't know how many ft/lbs that might take but I did it. I also had a major/minor problem - I was using 2nd to try to get my open diff to hook up a bit coming up the hill [turn? - never did get the names and numbers right]. with the up-shift to third, the knob went a flyin'... I think it hit the dash, bounced odd my knee and disappeared - until the next time I used the brakes. After that it was a game of approaching a corner, looking around the floor to see which petal it was under this time, kinking it out of the way and repeating the process. This little private game went on for three laps. As long as that front straight is, I found that it goes by pretty quick when one is looking, reaching and kicking everywhere trying to get the damn thing to show itself. Going into 1 the only thing I knew is that it wasn't under the brake petal last time i looked. Third time around I spotted the little guy - right next to my right heal - only way to get it was to lift [painful but necessary] and kick it over to the left foot. It worked for an instant but the right foot got back on it before the left could respond and back under the seat it went. Next lap I got it in my field of vision under the clutch petal, worked it back within reach, grabbed it, and just about hurt myself trying to get it wedged between my legs and under the crotch strap. The rest of the race was actually quite enjoyable. Anyway, wednesday morning we were finally putting miles behind us on the way home. Fun and funny how a bit of windshield time can sooth the spirit and give perspective. Around noon I started thing about Brainard. My friend [and new Foter] Bill Swope had told me about and invited us to join them up in Minnesota. 40th anniversary and grand re-opening of a redesign of a very historic old track. $20 entry fee. New to everyone. Almost, sort of, kind of, on the way home. I had been thinking of it and talking about it since before we headed east - almost in jest. By wednesday afternoon I was thinking seriously enough to say it out loud to Connie [I knew Barley was already in favor]. "If it's really on , and if you're up for it, and IF I can get to the bottom of that high speed vibration, and if we turn right soon, we could make it. 30 minutes later we had a plan - press thru to Indianapolis and get a room. Pull the drive shaft and see if I can get to the root of the problem. An easy fix for the vibration was the determining factor. The next morning, a couple calls lead me to Indianapolis Rack & Axle [great guys, GREAT service]. Pulled the driveshaft in the hotel parking lot, and took it 10 miles up the road for a exam. Sure enough, it was .030+" out. Likely from when Connie parked it on a K barrier last year but undiscovered since the car has never been on any track nearly as fast as Watkins Glen - the vib could only be felt at well over 100mph when it would come in with a vengeance [more on that later]. Straight and true driveshaft in hand in under 45 mins., and we were headed north. Yeah, Indianapolis Indiana is not the shortest route from New York to Minnesota but still in the neighborhood as I like to say. 13 1/2 hours later we were again fried, but in Brainard. Friday had a couple practice sessions that were the first laps ever on the reconfigured track. They've taken the old 9 turn, 3.5 mile, flat-out track and turned it into a 13 turn 2.5 mile circuit with some fun technical stuff. When the Glen planning first started to get momentum last winter, I sent out a message saying I was in if someone would promise rain. Joe replied saying "it always rains in Watkins Glen in September" and I knew I was in. Some say "be careful what you ask for". I'm learning to be very, very specific. When I mentioned my rain wish in the our paddock last weekend, I almost got lynched. And I have to admit that I wasn't being specific enough. We got It, but Saturday practice and the last race Sunday was not what I had in mind and it didn't help anyone. Today was a whole different story. Gloomy, foggy and cold this morning - no point in going out in my view - lots of drivers that had just gotten there this morning who had therefor never been on THIS track and lost of potential for mayhem. The very first race on this new track was our vintage group at 1:30. By 11:00 the foggy mist rolled in. By 12:00 it turned to definite rain. By 12:15 I put on those brand new, 8 year old, borrowed, slightly treaded Kuhmo Victoracers on steel wheels who's only scrubbing was the drive from the track to the village and back last weekend. By 1:00 it way raining buckets and though giddy, I was also getting a bit nervous. Unusual... what if my huff and puff was all bluff? After all, I've never actually raced in the rain [not much opportunity in the desert], I just know that I kind'a like slippin' and sliden' and have always thought of slippery as the great equalizer. Damned if I didn't win the thing!!! In all honesty, only because the GT350 with the bubblegum rain tires broke a few laps from the end, but hey, you gotta finish to win. Getting by the crazy-fast Mini - THE car for the conditions was the part that really blew my mind. Didn't know I had won until I got in. Couldn't figure out how the Mustang got out of my sight, but the visibility was that bad... I had no idea he had come in, only knew he was gone. Pictures of us coming into the new turn 12 [the toughest and tightest turn on the track show a literal bow wake ahead of the cars. WHAT FUN!!! In the second race it dried out unexpectedly fast and the under-inflated, lousy hard tires weren't quite quite up to the task and I was happy to get a third behind the deserving crazy-fast mini and a very well driven 'vette. If tomorrow is dry as forecast, I'll likely get my tractor powered butt handed to me on a plate. Todays dose of adrenaline is nearing it's end, getting low on beer and 8:00 am drivers meeting, so goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 14 06:37:39 2008 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (Bill Collins) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:37:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. Message-ID: In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 07:20:24 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:20:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: Kas The addition of ethanol compromises vehicle mileage, just as you have experienced. From a consumer point of view, the consumer pays more $/BTU for ethanol gasoline than $/BTU for gasoline without ethanol. From a political point of view, we have happy corn farmers. As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Cary In a message dated 9/13/2008 3:33:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdporter at dfn.com Sun Sep 14 07:27:24 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:27:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 09:38:58 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:00:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:00:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:14:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> Message-ID: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > president > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > actually worse for the environment. > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > of > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > cars. > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > emissions at all. > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > so > it does no good at all. > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:25:11 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:23:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <583B9A24-28E0-4FB5-A53B-D0B6A2EBEBE8@bnj.com> Incidentally, with corn futures at $5.60 a bushel and Soybeans at $12.00 farmers that grow any potential fuel crop are pretty delirious these days, as are farmers in general, since using corn for fuel and other factors seem to have driven food up enough to compete with gasoline as an expense. I remember when farmers were politicking like mad to get the government to invest in ethanol production. Now they're being a lot more quiet since the "green" aspect of alternate fuel production is being given the scrutiny it always deserved. As usual, politically motivated "science" sends us down paths that don't deliver real change. Just politics. I can't help but view people who jump on bandwagons as suckers. Assuming climate issues and pollution get worse, I wonder if anyone will remember that the Kyoto accord enabled BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) to capture the lion's share of worldwide manufacturing growth in extremely unregulated environments. Anyone who thinks it was labor costs alone needs to visit a lights out machining facility. Uneconomical and going out of business in the US, but not in China. I wonder why that is? On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:24:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:24:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really > well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in > Congress > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which > lobbying group > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> president >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with >> the MBTE >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst >> equipped >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions >> were >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted >> on the >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Randall >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >>> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, >> it does >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the >> mixture >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, >> which >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures >> that >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only >> takes one >> of >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> cars. >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but >> you'd be >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And >> remember, >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> emissions at all. >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the >> fuel, >> so >> it does no good at all. >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. >> Click >> Here. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:25:54 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:25:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol eventually and they cycle continues. Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen content.....fertilizer. Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry comfortable suspension. Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:35:28 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:35:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Relative BTU Message-ID: <24349897.12426711221410128226.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> The fuel/oil industry should have a standard that indicates the relative BTU the fuel has. It is not enough to list the octaine. The Ethanol fuel you purchase may fill your tank but, it is a false fill as it empties faster than traditional gasoline. M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Sep 14 10:42:51 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: Mordy... Your dissertation is very interesting. Bill (Damdinger) PS...but in a way reminded me about that old Mexican Cat Skin joke. It's an old Wisconsin ice fishing joke, and takes too long to tell, but the punch line was, "The cats'll eat the rats...the rats'll eat the cats, and we'll get the skins." ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:53:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:53:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <4902445F-7B14-43C3-A2BB-9F371376FA0A@bnj.com> I love the guy, he actually makes sense and has some facts to back up his position. Great job on your goats and fuel. I looked around here for sources of fryer oil to convert, but being Portland, everyone that uses a can of crisco to make some fries has a biofuels guy waiting at their doorstop. Biodiesel runs about a 50 cent premium here, and people buy pretty much all of it they can get. Weird. A few days ago I was driving behind an older Mercedes Diesel that was fogging for bugs and emitting a smell like rancid french fries. Had biodiesel stickers all over the bumper. I thought, "man, there's a guy doing some great marketing for fuel diversification." My friend Cameron Healy also puts his money where his mouth is, driving a diesel newbug, investing in biofuel companies--and I think it's great. Of course he used to own Kettle Chips, so fryer oil was easy to come by. I think whey is a welcome when you're milking 10 goats, but my friend John Karamanos owns Sunshine Dairy, who make cottage cheese by the ton every day. For them, whey is a problem. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Sep 13 19:56:17 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:56:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <007601c9160d$13ddd1e0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 11:07:46 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <517A9C7A-A81B-4793-A9B9-17144B16D03C@bnj.com> Incidentally, if you really want a headache, try to figure out the price of fuel ethanol. What a convoluted mess that is. The feds supply a nice subsidy, but they pay it to the buyer (the oil companies) and theoretically that gets reflected back to the market price, though how that could happen in a competitive market escapes me. Essentially it LOOKS to me like ethanol is cheaper than finished gasoline if it shows up at the refinery for 2.70 or less. The subsidy looks to be about $. 03 per mixed gallon of fuel or roughly $.30 per gallon of ethanol if it's 10 percent, I think. I need to go ask my economist friend to step me though the math and all the wiggle words. Rack fuel ethanol prices are quoted by state, but there aren't any refineries that I know of in Minnesota. Do they mix the fuel in tanks in each state? or do they really ship it to the refinery? Local mixing makes sense, but I stopped expecting things to make sense a long time ago, especially when government regulation and subsidies get added to the mix. Can't help but think the market would have done all this with much greater efficiency. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rem9 at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 14 11:10:30 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:10:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:21:17 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Message-ID: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in on the whey cool discussion? Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Moore To: 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Sep 14 11:32:20 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:32:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CD4AA4.5040300@141.com> No Whey! BOB KRAMER wrote: > Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in > on the whey cool discussion? > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Russ Moore > *To:* 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com > > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey > as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep > producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of > tofu that is likewise utilized. > > > > Russ Moore > > Upstate NY > > > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Bill Babcock > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM > *To:* mdporter at dfn.com > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > > > Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that > might be an interesting micro-source. > > > > > > On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > > > > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much > energy > > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > > > > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:43:30 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:43:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: <006001c91691$6707c040$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LOddTR at aol.com Sun Sep 14 11:45:16 2008 From: LOddTR at aol.com (LOddTR at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:45:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: They said it was the "Zippo" so I expect it's a year old or more. Nice shot of Henry Frye on the historic circuit tour. Leo Oddi In a message dated 9/14/2008 1:44:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer _rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_ (mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 11:47:40 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 14 12:02:04 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ____________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. _See Now_ (http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/) = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 14 12:13:45 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:13:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914181345.EHNS21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > So I think this means that one can't always go by the > labeling on the pump. That's what I believe too; glad someone came up with hard evidence to support the theory. As mentioned, there is a Federal mandate for 10% ethanol that took effect early this year. However as I understand it, it only requires an average of 10% in the fuel sold, which likely means that fuel blended near the ethanol refineries will get more, and fuel blended far from an ethanol source will get less. Randall From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 12:18:54 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:18:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Steve, don't really need to get in contact with him. As far as the soaked frame, nope, must have been another article. Marty From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 11:42:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Tim Murphy Cc: britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 14 13:02:18 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ Message-ID: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open up the intake manifold to match them. Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final smoothing by hand. I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? Thanks, chris From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 14 13:13:56 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ In-Reply-To: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: I did it. http://www.gt6.ca/08/0108/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0223/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0310/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0405/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0614/index.html Questions :) ? A. On 14-Sep-08, at 3:02 PM, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally > getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates > were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open > up the intake manifold to match them. > > Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just > open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners > split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( > My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, > but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this > with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final > smoothing by hand. > > I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these > holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? > > Thanks, > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 15:50:17 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:50:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:09:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:09:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? :-) Cheers, Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 17:13:59 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:13:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 17:16:57 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:16:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:21:46 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:21:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Either way, one would tend to get the "munchies" Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:17 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 17:30:16 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:30:16 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <018801c916c1$d865a8d0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Not so much animals - but the exhaust sure smells of fish and french fries when climbing steep hills. Trouble is, I'm trying to work out how I can refine the exhaust aroma to filter out the odours of flaming food wrapping (old newspaper) as well :) John ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'John Macartney' ; 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? J Cheers, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 03:39:13 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:39:13 +1100 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) References: Message-ID: <01ce01c9164d$bf7f3e90$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Also appeared in the Central Michigan Maraschino Cherry Producers Fall 1998 newsletter with the caption, " One cherry little sportscar!". Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:54:11 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:54:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: whups/ Another try. Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: Yes, the mileage goes down. By about 20% in average driving. Yes the fuel costs less. About a third when I filled up today. The fuel price is a lot less volatile too. It hasn't changed more than about 5 cents in the last month. Net/net it's a gain for me. The downside is I cannot use it while towing. The mileage goes WAY down. like to about 50% of what it is on gas w 10% ethanol. On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:50 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees > with most of you. > > I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run > on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: > > > 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the >> distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had >> something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I >> think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great >> plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners >> and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the >> distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. >> >> Tim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Bill Babcock >> *To:* Tim Murphy >> *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. >> On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: >> >> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal >> mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well >> thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE >> standards >> they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in >> Congress >> to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying >> group >> was pushing that bill? >> >> Tim >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> >> president >> >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE >> >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped >> >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were >> >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the >> >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Jim >> >> Dallas >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Randall >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does >> >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture >> >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which >> >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that >> >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one >> >> of >> >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> >> cars. >> >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be >> >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, >> >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> >> emissions at all. >> >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, >> >> so >> >> it does no good at all. >> >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click >> >> Here. >> >> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* >> * >> * >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:50:26 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:50:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the > distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had > something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I > think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great > plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners > and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the > distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Babcock > *To:* Tim Murphy > *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. > On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress > > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group > > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > > president > > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > > actually worse for the environment. > > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > > Cheers, > > > Jim > > Dallas > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > > Behalf Of Randall > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > > of > > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > > cars. > > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > > emissions at all. > > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > > so > > it does no good at all. > > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > > Here. > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 13:32:19 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:32:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8s at the Glen Video Message-ID: TR8s at the Glen with group 44 Jag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAGy48KW_JQ Paul From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 15:03:56 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:03:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Message-ID: Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! Paul MacDonald (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2B.flv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vanlake at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 15 15:32:16 2008 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:32:16 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 racers w/overdrive Message-ID: <091520082132.15948.48CED460000CE50700003E4C22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I would like to discuss some model specific (TR6) questions that I have with current TR6 racers. mainly those drivers that are/have used overdrive transmissions either A, or J, types. If you could drop me a line so that I could bounce a few questions off you it would be greatly appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 15 16:38:13 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: <656FE146.72CDABEF.00159EE9@cs.com> from newfoundland...and the roar of targa actually mark bradakis plunks his magic twanger. wondered why kent has not joined us sooner. joe a >Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What >happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. > >Tim Suddard >Publisher; Classic Motorsports >and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >www.classicmotorsports.net >www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > >In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > > >> Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. >> ?? >> ?I'll second that. >> ?? >> ?Paul MacDonald >> ?-----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On >> Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com >> Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Cc: kent at auto-restore.com >> Subject: [Fot] Nomination >> >> I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, >> owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring >> the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 >> GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a >> lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. >> >> Tim Suddard >> Publisher; Classic Motorsports >> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >> www.classicmotorsports.net >> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 >> >> >> >> ************** >> Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the >> latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >> > > > > > > > > >************** >Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, >plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > >(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 18:56:24 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:56:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:04:41 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:04:41 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000801c9171a$79501610$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Rear axle bearing end play? Axle length may have been changed by freezing or shims gotten mixed up during reassembly. Just thinking what may have changed when you removed and froze the rear axles. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 15 19:19:52 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:19:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Message-ID: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:20:44 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:20:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: Greg, My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more expensive! Good Luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 15 19:23:49 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:23:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4544B734-8728-4C31-BBB2-9EC7B2BB2632@gt6.ca> A friend of mine had an odd vib, on a whim he swapped the drums and yeah it went away. A. On 15-Sep-08, at 9:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been > through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and > balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron > drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The > strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, > the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to > figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more > expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net > writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:50:42 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:50:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Toast to Jack at Road America this weekend Message-ID: Hi everyone, I know that there where many of you who took a moment to raise a glass to Uncle Jack at the Glen last week. I wish I could have been there, but alas it's just too far from Minneapolis for me this year. I am assuming that there are a number of you who could not be at the Glen, but WILL be at Road America this weekend for Fall Festival. For those who will be there I invite you to stop by my paddock on Friday at 5:30 P.M. for a toast, a cigar, and to share a few more good words about Uncle Jack. I'll provide the Single Malt, decent cigars, and Gin for the non-scotch drinkers in the crowd (we do after all race English cars). I also had a 3X5 foot banner made-up that I would like to have people sign, and we will give to Tony for garage-art at the end of the weekend. You can find me parked with the "British Race Group" (please forgive the presence of the MG's) in the grass competition paddock across from the t-shirt shop, near the gas pumps. Look for the white #711 Ginetta G15. ( I know, I know, no Triumph again this week. The Kellison/TR4 is nearing completion!) Hope to see many of you there. Please feel free to bring anyone who knew Jack. Or anyone who wants a free drink, and is willing to SAY that they knew Jack. We'll pour until the Scotch runs out. The trackside dinner starts around 6:00, so we'll start on time at 5:30. Hope to see you all there, John Houlton P.S. I also conduct the track-side devotional time Sunday morning under the VSCDA tent, and will be offering thanks and remembrance for Jack during that time. No cocktails in church, however. Bill Dentinger won't allow it. He's funny that way. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Catpusher at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:53:31 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:53:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen: Amazing Message-ID: Happy that I could make it to the Glen; a fine event. I was amazed that I missed a number of FOT in the three days that I was there; just like trying to keep up with the posts lately! Hardy **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:54:14 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:54:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003301c91721$652eb810$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Thanks. Seems a pretty big tank for such a small vehicle. Guess fill stations were fewer and farther between in the day. BTW, I hate to fill it up, as the fumes more noticable when it is full. Thinking of installing a fume interceptor from a later MGB or TR6, but don't know how they are configured relative to the tank/vent. Any insights? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Gano palm top To: Steven Preiss Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. The manual cites "Imperial" gallons. The conversion is 14.99 U. S. gallons. Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Steven Preiss Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:56 PM To: Tim Murphy Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 20:41:48 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:41:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW - could it be that simple... ? I run modified 240Z finned aluminum drums - same as has been on the car for awhile. I have noticed while adjusting the rear brakes that they are not absolutely true - when adjusted a notch too tight, 180 deg. makes the difference from a bit tight to totally free. They have been that way for the couple years I've run them but never a problem. Curious though that you mention those 3 tracks - 2 that I've been on in the last two weeks and probably the fastest that I've ever seen and don't care to in the current condition. However, I would think that it would be a progressive problem - not one that would come on with such a difference [still not convinced that it is not 4th gear only - been racing, not testing and that is my fault]. I am packing spare cast drums, rear axle, hub and bearings and a diff cut off at the tubes [ not that I could DO anything with the diff. - only in hopes that I could find someone that could set it up should the need come up]. I guess that would be one change I could make for a chassis dyno. Otherwise I don't know that a dyno could help much. A really great stretch of road would be preferable but the 19 cops I've seen in the last couple hundred miles makes that seem unlikely. Wisconsin probably won't help either. There is lots to be said for New Mexico, and some of the "Last Open Roads" is near the top of the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also > been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, > and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old > iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. > The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road > America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was > delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not > something more expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 21:43:25 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:43:25 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Message-ID: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 22:59:36 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:59:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 23:28:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:28:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > Greg... > > Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that > track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn > ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new > track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot > print. > > Bill Dentinger > > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 16 01:54:51 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:54:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, and meaningless on inline engines? mjb. From RustyTR4 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 04:37:19 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:37:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: I will second that and welcome Jack to the ranks. Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaf3 at charter.net Tue Sep 16 06:11:17 2008 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:11:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48CFA265.9080402@charter.net> That's correct Mark The odd fire engines are those 90 degree V6 engines modified from V8's with crankpins at 90 degrees. Some of the early GM V6's even used V8 distributor caps with two towers removed from the cap. Later odd fire engines offset the crankpins slightly but they never achieved a 120 degree offset. FYI Glenn Franco Spit racer under construction Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 06:17:04 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:17:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <007301c917f6$21f3a8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Well we need not say any more ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM TOBIN To: rob ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 06:33:46 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> References: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Greg, I'm too far away to be of any help other than moral support. Only you can judge the severity of your vibration, but once you are sure the engine is balanced, that the trans is not coming apart, the driveshaft is straight you end up at the rear axle. Pulling the cover off and having a look at the teeth may give you some solace. For my part, running at TWS all these years I thought that the 100 mph vibration was pretty normal and I'm encouraged that there may be a solution by looking into the brake drums. Interestingly, I never notice the vibration on the long front straight, just the back 40 6 grand in third. This was true in my old TR4 and remains the same in the 4A, whatever that means. I blew an oil cooler once in a cold weather start-up. They tend to be a little fragile depending on how they are mounted. What I'm saying is that you may be OK, but like I said only you can be the judge. 3 tracks in three weeks, Barley isn't the only dog in your truck. Wish it was me! With all this track time I guess you aren't going to Hallet October 4 and 5th? Bob -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg - Lunker Hilyer Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:43 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 06:52:37 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:52:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <20080916125237.CLGP12447.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@randall> > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? Not necessarily. "Even fire" means that the cylinder firings are evenly spaced around two rotations of the crankshaft (for a 4 cycle engine). The old John Deere inline 2 cylinder tractor motors were odd fire. Instead of having the crank arranged so both pistons came to TDC at the same time (as required for an even fire 4 stroke 2 cylinder), the throws were opposite. Thus the cylinders fired 180 degrees apart, then no firing for 540 degrees. The resulting exhaust note earned them the nickname "Johnny Poppers". But I don't know of any other examples of inline odd fire engines. Randall From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 16 07:12:39 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CBE@server.Triumph.local> Greg, I hope somebody comes up with a weekend saving offer for you! I always wanted to make VSCDA's Fall Festival at Road America, hopefully some day. Having paddocked next to you at the Glen I can happily endorse Barley as the best dog in the paddock. I would not dismiss the brake drums causing the vibration too quickly, especially since you had to have them machined to open up the center hole. That operation could have easily thrown them off balance. My very high speed vibration was caused by the gearbox tailhousing bolts working loose. I have since added snugging up those 6 bolts to my between race weekend checklist and have been fine ever since. The vibration did cause me to retire that gearbox case and rebuild into a new one, but I felt the vibration at every track I ran. Henry Frye #04 TR4 > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer > Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive > Here's the deal [offer].... > The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going > it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my > problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 > hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at > it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but > enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with > good race experience want to make a group effort? > If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the > expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can > get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that > mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude > and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" > need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. > The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same > applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm > packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to > be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be > considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race > tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] > to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] > and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. > I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires > a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the > point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. > From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 16 08:38:27 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <00c501c91804$ab190810$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: If you are having trouble viewing, I would suggest going to my home page on photobucket then go to page two, the videos are all there. They end with 1, 1A, 2A and 2B http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/ Paul -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr at comcast.net] Sent: September 16, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Subject: Re: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Paul I've tried to open any one of the four up and I can't get it to open (help) Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Fot" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:03 PM Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen > > Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' > youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. > > The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. > > As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! > > Paul MacDonald > > (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2B.flv > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 10:19:43 2008 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 10:51:38 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:51:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience > would be a > problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero emissions (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities refused to allow him to license it for the street. Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to internal combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. Randall From rem9 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 16 10:55:24 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) Thanks Russ Moore Spitfire #49 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 10:57:41 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 11:07:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:07:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161007n6c659a5clb93a009ecf306c76@mail.gmail.com> try aurorabearing.com. Great catalog. 2008/9/16 Russ Moore > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:20:13 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:20:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, boiler inspections are required, it's what killed steam heating, which is much more efficient and requires far less internal space than ducted air. Well, that and the clanging, water hammers and the opportunity to be scalded to death in your own apartment. . You can build a very efficient steam engine, but you still bang up against the carnot cycle. And air-cooled steam engines hit that wall a lot sooner than water cooled. Still, they make a lot of sense for cars, especially in a hybrid approach where warm-up wouldn't be such a problem. Single speed steam engines can be much more efficient than variable speed ones--they make great generators, which is one reason steam turbines are the default generator prime mover. They require complex water removal systems to ensure the steam has no entrained liquid--it eats the blades up like a sandblaster. But that's ancient technology. I've been reading a lot of popular physics books lately (that sounds like an oxymoron) and I'm struck with how many good ideas have been squashed by "fashion" in science. You don't have to be a quack to have your career ended by supporting a discredited theory. Just ask Pons and Fleischman (Cold Fusion). Interesting that all these many years later (15) the department of Energy convened a second review panel (2004) to look at chemically influenced nuclear processes. The area of study has been deeply compromised by the public mania and resultant backlash in the scientific community. Fashion, in other words. It doesn't take a conspiracy to doom promising technologies, all that's necessary is plain old human self-interest and herd mentality. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Randall wrote: > > Flieshman >> The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience >> would be a >> problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. > > Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero > emissions > (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again > according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities > refused to > allow him to license it for the street. > > Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low > pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to > internal > combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. > > Randall > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:23:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:23:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? > hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and > high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:24:23 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:24:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:25:36 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:25:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from everywhere these days. On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be > had in a couple days. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > >> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >> >> >> >> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >> Spitfire) >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Russ Moore >> >> Spitfire #49 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:39:56 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:39:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> Message-ID: Including the USA according to the box they come in. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from > everywhere these days. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > >> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be >> had in a couple days. >> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque NM >> On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: >> >>> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >>> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >>> >>> >>> >>> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >>> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >>> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >>> Spitfire) >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Russ Moore >>> >>> Spitfire #49 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 11:52:20 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:52:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAE63C1A1CD195-F08-113A@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Unless they have changed, the NAPA are junk... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: Russ Moore Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:09:51 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:09:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161209332.SM02816@[166.70.182.40]> I'll second this nomination!? Another spitfire driver is always a good thing. Brad To: trmarty at hotmail.com CC: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:03:37 +0000 From: brad.kahler at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event > ....MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ....... >? > Marty SukeyWow! So many ways you could take this statement!? See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:14:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161214707.SM02520@[166.70.182.40]> I'l second this nomination, even if Mark does have to use his "twanger" to get the job done! Brad -----Original Message----- From: "marty sukey" Sent 9/16/2008 10:57:41 AM To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was?racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ? Marty Sukey Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:52 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:14:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 12:19:18 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:19:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Greg Hilyer wrote: > Including the USA according to the box they come in. Careful here. I have noted a LOT of products that have "Made in the USA" on the box/wrapping, but the actual bits you need are made in Taiwan/China/Philippines/etc. McMaster-Carr is a good source, but no guarantee of where the stuff is made. McMaster-Carr do make an effort to source stuff made in the USA, but it's no guarantee. Pegasus Racing is a reliable source for hi-po stuff. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 12:50:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:50:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ask Kyle Busch what he thinks about the quality of rods ends Joe Gibbs Racing chose...... ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of REK46 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:15 PM To: rem9 at frontiernet.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:19:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161219v36d7f500x5f8a2cc782d9cdab@mail.gmail.com> Aircraft Spruce sells Aurora bearings 2008/9/16 Bill Babcock > Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices > aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 13:23:22 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:23:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: They do sell spacers that will allow smaller ID than the bearing domes with ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 16 15:52:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:52:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Assen race #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a video of the race #1. After practice for race #2 I had to retire caused by a broken crank. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4143349641455918640 Have fun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 17:39:16 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: Thank you all for the help with this. I learned something rob ----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dlhogye at aol.com Tue Sep 16 18:56:22 2008 From: Dlhogye at aol.com (Dlhogye at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:56:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought Message-ID: FOT, I had no real idea of what I was getting myself into when I bought my TR3 last June. I just thought I'd build a great little car to go racing with and meet some cool people along the way. It's going to take me awhile to get my car on the track, hopefully I'll be able to run it next season, but I'm well on my way to meeting some really cool folks. Thanks to Tim Suddard and Gary Hunter at Classic Motorsport for pointing me towards FOT and thanks to Gary Horstkorta and Joe Alexander for my nomination to the club. In a very short amount of time I've been gathering a wealth of information and making great connections that will assist me in building a safe, more reliable and hopefully fast TR. I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. After their run most of the cars went to Lafayette Park and were positioned on the lawn around the pavilion where the Triumph "Legends" were to speak. It was a perfect day in the park. There I was pleased to meet Kas Kasner, and the Master of the FOT, I think I can call him that, Joe Alexander. Oh, and there, I was also surprised to rub elbows with Brian Redman, a Legend indeed. The Legends Speak was a fantastic introduction into the lifestyle of Triumph and racing. The rest of the weekend was spent at the track meeting numerous "Friends" and checking out some really sweet machines up close and going 'round the track. It was also nice to meet Joe Richard's and see his very special car, TS1. All in all, it was a great turnout for the Triumph enthusiast. I'd like to thank everyone for the meeting and for taking the time to share some TR stories and information. I never would have thought owning a Triumph would lead so quickly to this much pleasure and camaraderie. Thanks again, Dave Hogye Santa Cruz,CA. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 17 08:59:30 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:59:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. John H. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 17 09:17:30 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:17:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Phone # needed Message-ID: <87591BF4-73D3-49C8-92A1-87B02DAF8B3E@earthlink.net> Anyone got a cell &/or daytime phone number for Tony Drews? If so, please send it off list. Thanks, Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From VANDECARR at aol.com Wed Sep 17 17:28:23 2008 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:28:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. Dean VanDeCarr ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Wed Sep 17 17:33:07 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:33:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, but generally they can find what I'm looking for. 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The > sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and > HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. > There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end > of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be > cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 17 18:08:00 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A good bearing supply store is a godsend, especially if they have folks that know their business. We have two good ones here in Portland. They DO have rod ends, and one of them stocks Aurora. Aurora invented the two piece rod end, which is substantially stronger than the typical three piece. On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are > about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, > N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. > > The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I > might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, > but generally they can find what I'm looking for. > > > > 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. > The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress > situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions > that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used > their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have > hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 17 22:01:43 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Sep 17 21:02:55 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 05:36:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:36:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> References: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE799EDF00C94-1624-2577@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> Yes you run it into the drilling in the back of the head. -3 is fine but it has an ID of .125, which will allow too much oil & fill up the rocker cover. Depending on what fitting arrangement you wind up using, you may have to use a restrictor, about .075 is about right in most cases. Some AN fittings have a hole not much larger than this so it's not necessary to restrict it. Also make sure the shaft & bushes are to spec. If you are in doubt about how much oil you're getting up top, you can let a piece of plexiglass into the top of an old rocker cover & get a visual on it. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: Tony Drews To: Greg & Alison Blake ; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:02 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head You can see the oil feed attached at both ends clearly in this picture: http://www.tonydrews.com/2007-8Rebuild/DSCN0125.JPG As I understand it, both ends were existing holes plugged with a bolt with washer, so it's really easy to attach. You don't want TOO much oil to the top end, or it fills up the valve cover, as I understand it.? Wear on the #1 rocker would be a classic sign of not enough oil to the rockers. - Tony Drews At 11:01 PM 9/17/2008, Greg & Alison Blake wrote: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has.? Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 06:14:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:14:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] - Who would've thought -now....respect for Triumphs at The Glen.. Message-ID: <08F8F295.308B0492.00159EE9@cs.com> FOT, Back in the USA.....crossed border last night. Based on comments I have received, The Triumph (FOT) is very popular group at the Glen. There was a lot of participation from the FOT on all fronts, as well as VTR & TRA. Good feedback from the Village and The Glen. Expect another invitation in the future. If an objective was to elevate the status of our Triumphs, we did it in a resounding way. SVRA caused it to happen by initiating the idea...likely mostly Jack Woehrle. So many people to thank.... Joe A Start planning for 2012, it will be a big one. The 60th Anniversary of Triumphs in Competition. Joe A > > ?I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. > > >Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! > >They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... > >They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. > >John H.= > From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 18 06:38:40 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:38:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and bearing condition in general. I don't use the oil feed line in my race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 18 07:00:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:00:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> I notice no one has mentioned that there is a oil feed kit available from Moss. It's been a standard "tuning" item for many years. I've put them on all the engines I have, I consider it an automatic requirement, even for a street engine. Feeding from the back is probably adequate, I've never had a wear problem and I see oil coming from all the rocker holes as soon as pressure builds. The oil mist in the rocker box is also critical for lubricating the valve stem and guide. You CAN have too much though. Filling the valve cover is a possibility, as is robbing too much oil from the bottom end either by reducing pressure or running the pan level below the oil pickup. I wouldn't mess with the oil passage size, just make sure it's not obstructed. On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:38 AM, Kramer, Robert wrote: > Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and > bearing condition in general. I don?t use the oil feed line in my > race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you > attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever > tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker > pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the > rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 18 07:05:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:05:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080918130532.10E5018764A@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 18 07:15:18 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <48D25466.7090104@pobox.com> If you don't have enough oil getting to the rocker assembly, I would look for the cause. The rocker assembly is at the end of the line, if you have worn bearings, the oil will bleed off before it gets there. I'd guess that cam bearings are the most likely culprit. When replacing them, make sure all the holes are oriented correctly. If your motor is health, you should have copious amounts of oil coming out of the little holes in the rockers, even at a brisk idle. I think the outside line is sometimes a band aid for a weak motor. Larry Young Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached > a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried > opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal > interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker > shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 07:24:31 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181324.m8IDOV5R016023@moose.dimebank.com> I like these, but it's possible to get too much oil, resulting in oil smoke in "less than perfect" engines. Later versions of these have a special banjo bolt with a more restrictive passage that trims the amount of oil to the head. You used to be able to order those banjos from TriumphTune; not sure if Moss US will supply them separately or not (and no, I don't know the dimensions...) From REK46 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 07:27:57 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:27:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fpspitfire at comcast.net Thu Sep 18 07:48:09 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:48:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take. I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top. Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. aaron -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: REK46 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:28:22 +0000 Size: 659 URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:05:28 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:05:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> References: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CAE7AEBC8C861B-98C-2AAB@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> I make them up out of good AN hardware, instead of using the pre-made kits. The ones that I have seen use swaged fittings & I don't trust them. Another benefit to plugging the head/block ports is that eliminates that potential oil leak at the gasket joint at the rear of the engine. Glen ps- you can also use little freeze plugs in lieu of drilling/tapping the ports. -----Original Message----- From: fpspitfire at comcast.net To: REK46 at aol.com; cak at dimebank.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 9:48 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take.? I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. ? You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top.? Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. ? I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. ? aaron ? -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear20head? passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Thu Sep 18 08:27:30 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:27:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3n4ViQqdf7o8aQMKeAwdkFLhACRSCdVQG4CYM09v5ewRHEGO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:51:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:51:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <8CAE7B53A3AB4BA-1170-2EF@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> Yeah whatever works... but... that's way too big. It sounds like you have some wear issues. You'll also see a drop in oil pressure at low revs if it's bleeding that much oil off to the top. JMHO Glen -----Original Message----- From: wgrosenbach at juno.com To: ablake2 at austin.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:27 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ ? On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. =C 2Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg ? ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies!_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:58:44 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: Amici... In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them. A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race. While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 09:08:51 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 09:23:00 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:23:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2008 10:09:50 AM Central Daylight Time, cak at dimebank.com writes: > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > We have a TR3 engine on the shelf that has a 'SAH plate' on it. We've had it for years, and have never used it (nor taken it apart). At this point, we certainly would not expect to see anything extra-ordinary. It came over from England in a LOTUS (of all things), and of course was not a good fit. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 10:36:40 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:36:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: That is awesome. Way to go Bill!! Cheers and good luck. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO 63 TR 4 # 69 (Old # 96) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 18 12:40:41 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:40:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003801c919be$0e2583b0$6401a8c0@TER2> The oil cooler failure was most likely caused by incorrect routing of the oil flow caused by an oil cooler line adaptor that routes the oil through the oil cooler before it goes past the oil pressure relief valve. It must go past the oil pressure relief valve first so that the valve will open and reduce the pressure when the engine & oil is very cold & thick. When it goes through the cooler first, the cold oil pressure has "surges" that travel through the lines & pressurze the cooler to levels most likely exceeding 200 psi! A number or years ago we blew up 3 coolers in a row in similar circumstances before we figured out what the problem was!. We now have proper oil cooler adaptor blocks available that route the oil correctly so this will not happen. They are tapped for 1/2 pipe threads so adaptors for whatever lines you are using can be fitted. The plates are machines from billets of 7075-T6 aluminum. They sell for $90.00 without fittings. The oil lines exit the block to the top and rear. The cleanest installation is done using one 90 degree hose end and one 120 degree hose end, then running the hoses forward along the oil pan rail on the left side of the engine. Greg Solow The Engine Room Santa Cruz, Ca. 831 429-1800 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: BillDentin at aol.com ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: Greg... Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot print. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1678 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 9:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 18 14:06:50 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:06:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplemental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2008 11:00:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Re: Supplimental (sic) oil feed to head > > > Been there, done that. Both without restrictor, and with restrictor (3 different sizes) Generally accepted nowadays as a waste of time and money. Too much oil in the rocker box/valve cover is one result, oil smoke out of the exhaust is another, and a drop in oil pressure, even on a known good low mileage engine is a third. The rocker arms were bushed with oilite phosphor-bronze bushings, at great cost, but they wore out, as did the NOS original Leyland rocker shaft in under 20k miles, even with the oil feed hose - I put it down to poor heat treatment of the shaft. I replaced the rocker arms with Harland-Sharpe Roller Rockers (of mild lift) - this is a road car, and the shaft with a Ted Schumacher supplied tuftrided rocker shaft. After another 20k miles even the tuftrided shaft is just starting to wear, although the roller rockers are fine, and that's without the oil hose! My engine has always sent plenty of oil up to the rocker shaft, even without the oil feed hose. The oil feed hose is where it belongs - in the trash. I have read of similar experiences from many Triumph 6 cylinder owners over a long period of time. L?on YMMV. http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 18 16:49:57 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080918184957.8LDN8.95310.root@mp14> Hey Joe A. hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... Bobby Whitehead From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 17:52:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:52:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers Message-ID: <2F8E4155.5BDE0C52.00159EE9@cs.com> i remain on the road for several more days...poor planning on my part, but this is jan's retirement trip...but i got away with combining it with the glen. when is hallett? joe a >Hey Joe A. > >hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... > > >I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... > > >Bobby Whitehead >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 18 18:21:35 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:21:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 01:02:54 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:02:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <091920080702.4141.48D34E9E000745DE0000102D22007503300E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> No sooner did I return from the Glen then off we went for a week. Here are my belated comments on Watkins Glen 2008. I enjoyed reading other's comments and experiences. 1. Best car people on the planet drive/race Triumphs. Helpful, knowledgeable, fun, courteuos yet competitive drivers. Kas is a superb individual. Had great racing action with Tony Drews, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer in the Triumph event and the final group three race. My good friends were visiting from Geneva, NY and wanted to know why I let the pink car pass me. I explained the car was not pink but a rare TR color called Geranium. 2. The track is outstanding and one I've always wanted to race on since visiting the track with the Bucknell University sports car club for the 1962 thru 64 Gran Prix races. However, I drank far less beer this time. 3. #116 ran well except for a high speed miss over 6000 RPM. Tony Garmey said it had something to do with #116 sharing the trailer from the left coast with the Peyote 4. SVAR is well organized and pleasant to work with. Peter Krause's classroom session on Thursday was very helpful in learning the track 5. The Friday night event through downtown Watkins Glen was fantastic. Really enjoyed the local folks and I had the best navigator--Bill Babcock's much better half. Diane rode with me because the Peyote's passenger seat is taken up by the fuel cell. She was a kick with her leather avaitor hat and goggles. However. I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! DID anyone take an in car video of this greatest of all cruises??? 6. The original owner/driver of my TR4 and his mechanic were out in the countryside Friday evening and thought #116 might have been their car they built and raced in the early 70's as we drove by. Saturday morning they were at the track and were reintroduced to their car. I had them autograph the car and we took lots of photos and I listened to all their stories about racing at Kent, Riverside, Portland, etc. What a treat, except for the part where Rich Kliewer rolled the car at turn six at Pacific Raceways--oh and the engine fire at Portland that sent flames fifteen feet in the air. They have promised me tons of photos and news articles on my TR's early history!! They said seeing the car was like finding a lost son. 7.What a great variety of TR's, 3's, 4's, 6's, 8's, the 250K, Devins, Peyote, Spits, plus the first ever TR production sports car. Did anyone take any vieos of the races and car events? Special thanks to Joe Alexander, Classic Motorsports, Kas, Tony Garmey for keeping #116 in top form, and thanks to Tony for bringing the 250K and Devin and Bill Hart for sharing these two historic TR's with us.Wish Bill could have been with us. Last, thanks to all for honoring Uncle Jack's legacy. John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 19 05:46:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:46:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Well like everything else, opinions are going to vary... You can hog a lot of material out of the stock wheel, but it won't be as light as the aluminum. The other side is the cost of the alloy vs lightening the stock. The specific application & budget will usually determine which way to go... HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 8:21 pm Subject: [Fot] Flywheels FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened? flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 06:02:27 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:02:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Steel wheels are light too. They weigh in at 3,9kg. Cheers Chris From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 19 06:23:40 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:23:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Hi John, The Reenactment is always a high point of the Watkins Glen weekend, but one of the trickiest pieces of driving you will encounter in your race car. As hard as the organizers try to keep everyone on an even pace, when one sees open road in his race car.. Well, you were there. As we rounded the bend the first time to the Stone Bridge the cars were backed up about 5 deep! I saw all the tire smoke in my mirror. Thanks for not tagging me! And sorry 'bout the tires!!! We spent a few minutes before the run removing the grime off the racer. If only I realized sooner how effective a strategy this was at blinding my opposition... Henry Frye Via wireless handheld device -----Original Message----- From: John James Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 07:40:08 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:40:08 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 10:33:01 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:33:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Tee Shirts, etc Message-ID: We're going to take post event orders for another run of these tee shirts, hats and denim shirts, as we did not have enough for people who saw them at the Glen and wanted one. Also, if you know of any of your non-FOT fellow Triumph owners who wanted one of the Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts, please pass this along to them and have them email me. Choices are: -Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts are in grey, all sizes, with the illustration of all of the Triumph sports cars racing past the checkered flag. Shirts are $15, $16.50 for 2XL, $18 for 3XL. there's a black rectangle with Jack Drews' name and dates on the left sleeve. -Baseball caps in denim or khaki, Kastner Cup and Triumph shield and laurels embroidered on the front and Watkins Glen '08 and Friends of Triumph on the back. $16 -Denim or khaki long sleeve button down shirts, with the Triumph shield/laurels embroidered on the right breast and the words "Kastner Cup" above and "Watkins Glen '08" and "Friends of Triumph" below. $30 all sizes Please email me with orders. If you did not get to see the tee shirts, let me know and we can email you the graphic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Fri Sep 19 10:53:40 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From greenman62 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 11:10:49 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:10:49 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish I could be there... I will be in spirit. All the best! Greg PetrolatiGreg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: BillDentin at aol.comDate: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 -0400To: fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIIIAmici...In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them.A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race.While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews.Bill Dentinger**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 19 12:30:57 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <18704321.1221849057570.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Little Sam would love one of those! I'm sure Mom wouldn't let him though, he might run into her antique furniture and leave tire marks on her walls. Mike -----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kahler >Sent: Sep 19, 2008 12:53 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > >Try this!: >http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > >Susan :) > >-- >** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 12:31:03 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Ron Jacobs asked: > Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? We have discussed this at length. Search the archives. Bottom line: Aluminum is too soft. Lightened iron should only be used with a scatter shield. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 13:24:56 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... References: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: <002901c91a8d$66ae4e20$0300a8c0@Desktop> Hey now that looks good for autoX Marty you need to order this ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:41:52 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:41:52 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:43:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:43:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:55:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:55:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: It is the ADAC classic race. 400km cut in two slices.....200km Saturday, 200km Sunday.....and 2 hours practice on Friday.... All in all more than 600km at this weekend. I stay in tent....as clubracers should do ;-) I would like to compete in a modern car race too but that is stretching my budget too far. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Johns [mailto:rjohns at woh.rr.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 17:21 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Boy do you have my attention and curiosity. How did you get located and arraigned to run this 400 km on my old stomping grounds. I have a very good friend that runs the 24 hr. Last drive was in an M3. Usually is Porsche. I broke in on the old course. You should have seen it. My period was 54, 55, & 56. I have been back a couple times and toured in a rental car. What a change, from the old original course. Where are you staying or planning to stay? Think of Daun. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:44:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:44:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: I discussed a lot this numbers with the manufacturer but he said, if it doesn't work he will eat his hat and will send me a new set of pistons. The pistons are custom made from Mahle. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Kramer, Robert [mailto:RKramer at rdoequipment.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:08 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I don't have the numbers here with me but 0.0024 seems like a prescription for scuffed pistons. I think I am running 0.004 and numbers 1 through 3 and 0.005 on number 4. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:42 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:48:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:48:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 22:49 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I think that Germany is very much like Wisconsin, where I live here in the US (or perhaps Wisconsin is like Germany). The longest races I've done here are 100 miles (162km or so). I don't need to stop for a bathroom break during those, but I think I'd need to make a stop in a race two and a half times that long. Or perhaps have a tube out of the bottom of the car. Maybe the fact that Germany and Wisconsin have such similar weather is why so many Germans moved here to Wisconsin over the years.... Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:44 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 19 15:55:18 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 16:30:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:30:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: So if I get you right then Road America is in Wisconsin? Okay THEN I KNOW where Wisconsin is. RA is on my "to race " list. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:55 An: MadMarx Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Fri Sep 19 16:34:10 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:34:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Robert Lang: In answer to MadMarx' comment that: >> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of >> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Bob Lang suggested: > Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. Jim Hill From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 19 18:03:09 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:03:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 01:46:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:46:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 02:05:22 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:05:22 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). What are rolling hills? The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sat Sep 20 07:14:44 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:14:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:30:35 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:30:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Since I need to find them allfor Amelia Island and the Mitty, I guess, by default, I have become the unoffical, offical registrar of Group 44 and Kastner Brody cars. Please let me know if you know where any and all of these cars are, how many were built. Might as well find teh replicas too, so we can at least know what's what. I guess I need to keep track of the MGs and Jags as well. I understand there is a GT6 in the Pittsburgh area. Real? Replica? Who owns it? Also understand the Kastner /Brophy TR6 is in the midwest and being restored. Can't wait to reunite all these factory TR6s and GT6s next year. Thanks for all your help. See you at the Mitty in May. On another note, we got our Group 44 GT6 stripped all the way to a bare shell yesterday and was very pleased to find original white paint underneath the dash. Also managed to get the Group 44 and British Leyland contingency stickers off the car without damaging them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:34:14 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:34:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 07:39:38 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:39:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 08:55:21 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:55:21 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of the story calls his reputation into review!! Jonmac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > >> >> >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). >> >> What are rolling hills? >> >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. >> >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 09:15:45 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:15:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Message-ID: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 09:32:29 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:32:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Aircraft Spruce link In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE94D397EED54-14A4-21A6@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> They have everything you need... link- http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/pilotrelief.php The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 20 09:51:42 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:51:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080920155143.CVQX846.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall> > You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? > I never thought that German words would find their way to the > English language. We do have a few, although it might be more accurate to say the "American" language. Local grocery also carries knockwurst and of course sauerkraut to go on top. "Der Weinerschnitzel" is even a popular fast food chain (that AFAIK does not actually serve weiner schnitzel ). Randall From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 20 10:24:35 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? J.R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:48:05 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:48:05 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: RA is on my "to race list" but I can't afford to bring my car over. Renting a car might be an solution but will be difficult as my setup is not usual for Triumphs. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 14:06 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Wisconsin has large immigrant populations of German, Polish, Norwegian, and Belgian people. Many words from these immigrants have made it in to the Wisconsin English language. You have to come over and race with us at Elkhart Lake. I would love to race with you. On Sep 20, 2008, at 2:46 AM, Mad-Marx wrote: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:55:15 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:55:15 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I?m afraid of scuffing too but today I got the manufacturer on the phone twice (different people) and they told me, stay with set clearance. I asked them why their pistons don?t expand that much. Answer: Less expanding aluminum, special shaped for well fitting. They are more oval. They are made from Mahle. They do F1 pistons also and DTM cars pistons. I hope they should know. Von: tom strange [mailto:tstrange at sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 16:02 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Good morning, I'm curious who are you getting pistons from? I get mine from JE (I use the regular JE import car piston for the spit, not the fancy JE Pros) They call a clearance something like this for street use, and say you can run up to 4 or .0045 for a race application. I always hone to .0055 to .006 clearance and have never had a piston problem. You do get some scuffing with that much clearance, but it has never been a problem. Running them too tight can be a problem. I have had several engine problems over the years but never related to the pistons. (mostly valve issues due to me insisting on designing my own cam profiles and valve train in hopes of engineering myself to the back of the pack ;>) Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire --- On Fri, 9/19/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 3:41 PM I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 18:11:15 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:11:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <03bb01c91b7e$911017b0$0201a8c0@Bevan> > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? Very likely. Of all the pix I've seen of Gatso, I've never seen one of him smiling. Maybe he tried to 'persevere' with the device and it never worked as anticipated? Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 18:24:53 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:24:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: I just got my copy in today's mail and found that there is a nice article on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 20:36:13 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:36:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/2008 12:25:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjohns at woh.rr.com Sat Sep 20 20:38:00 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:38:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <003301c91b93$106d22a0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> I'll add my two cents, (Phennig). For what it is worth, the 1957 Sebring Team did not have any accommodation to relieve yourself. I don't know what the 1956 Lemans cars had, I saw them there but did not notice any added equipment for the purpose. The 1957 Factory cars at Sebring, if you are a TR history buff, were the 1956 Alpine Rally cars rebuilt. No significant modifications we introduced that I could observe. The driving shifts were three hours at Sebring and I think most would have not trouble with that length of time. I still drive 4 to 5 hours between stops and that is at age 76. Bob Johns - Original Message ----- From: "John Macartney" To: "'Robert Lang'" ; "MadMarx" ; "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the > story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of > the story calls his reputation into review!! > > Jonmac > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MadMarx" > > To: "'Robert Lang'" > > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > >> > >> > >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > >> > >> What are rolling hills? > >> > >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > >> > >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:15:21 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:15:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for people to fake stuff. By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of all the cars and what happened to them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:39:14 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:39:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Kas, That's an interesting perspective, as to me all this stuff is my business. The problem with doing what you love, is it all starts to blend together and then it is difficult to know when to stop. Today I cut the cage out of the GT6. Problem was, that even if it wasn't my job to cut that cage out and get that car done for the Mitty, I still would have done the same thing today! I need to know where all these cars are to invite them to Amelia and the Mitty, but I am also curious and want to know how many were built and where they are. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 20 21:57:52 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:57:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 22:04:26 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:04:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <9D526A59517C4EA79F4C32F1B081A5AE@newcomputer> Arizona and a Spit! That is good enough for me. Second! Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greg Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:58 PM To: FOT LIST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 21 00:16:43 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:16:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <20080921061858.NBJH6526.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Greg, What's his email address - is it Dotts46 at aol.com (guessing from an email from Gil Jackson with the local Vintage group? I'll send him a welcome email from DCTRA and add him to our list too. At 08:57 PM 9/20/2008, greg wrote: >Group, > I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our >driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles >blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very >well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA >from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and >encouragement. Seconds? >Thanks, >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 21 05:17:30 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:17:30 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race - a *DEFINITIVE REPLY* from (almost) the horse's mouth :) Message-ID: <041401c91bdb$a39e7b30$0201a8c0@Bevan> Friends On the continuing saga of *how long can you last at the wheel?* I received a reply from Paul Richardson on this subject which is clearly exercising the minds of many :) Paul's reply surely generates further questions? 1. How could anyone safely and accurately *aim* into a Mayflower dipstick tube while changing gear and having to steer safely - anywhere on the Mille Miglia? 2. How fast is fast to guarantee 'blow back'? 3. How slow is slow to avoid embarrassment? 4. Anyone care to put these claims to the test and report their findings? Jonmac > Hi John > It's amazing how stories get dressed up. The facts are that the said 'pee > tube' was the idea of my fathers for the Mille Miglia road race of 1954. > The tube was made at the factory prior to the race by experimental engineer > Ray Henderson who adapted a Triumph Mayflower dip stick guide (funnel > shaped) for the business end. It is true that the pee tube had a tendency > to 'blow back' somewhat when the TR was at high speed, so it was only used > on slower sections. I've used a quote from dear old Ray Henderson about the > pee tube in an article I wrote for one of the TR mags or one of Frederic > Reydellet's books. I'll forward it when I find it. > Best wishes to all Paul From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 21 06:17:10 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai r-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 21 06:40:19 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:40:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D640B3.70302@141.com> You would save $58, 135.20! Now THAT'S a deal! ;) Susan :) Doug Mitchell wrote: > If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Susan Kahler > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > > > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai > r-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1682 - Release Date: 9/20/2008 10:24 AM > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Sep 21 07:15:56 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:15:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kas' reply to Tim (sorry, forgot to include this in my letter) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/08 11:25:01 PM, kaskas at cox.net writes: > You are a pretty cool guy to take away from your business and take on these > things.? I laud you for it Tim. (no, it will not be be me) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GRMTim at aol.com > To: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; FOT at autox.team.net > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars > > I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold > to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. > The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping > track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for > people to fake stuff. > > By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and > a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we > call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! > > I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of > all the cars and what happened to them. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > > > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 21 07:39:25 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:39:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the trip to the Glen. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:04 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: Yes that is Kit indeed, fascinating guy to talk to, but I don't think he made the run to the Glen. I really should sit him down and do an interview with him this yr. A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: http://www.ovtc.net/1954alpinerally/index.html A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 21 09:56:39 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:56:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stutzmans at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 12:42:41 2008 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:42:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: Message-ID: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> accd. to Graham Robson in " The Works Triumphs" The pee tube was in the 1954 Mille Miglia TR2. Gatso left his mark at the check points. Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: herald948 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 13:49:39 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:49:39 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> References: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: It is very interesting that the discussion left the car specific side and went on to driver issues. As I said years earlier: Driver tuning makes you fast ..in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Sorry for my incomplete English. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 21 14:11:00 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D6AA54.10000@dimebank.com> > but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Wait ... you mean Triumph competed in the Mille Miglia? I never realized that they counted as eligible for the Mille Miglia Storica (or whatever they've changed the name to this year)... From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 21 14:53:43 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:53:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 15:54:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:54:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Sep 21 18:07:37 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <842915.78645.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring?over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sun, 9/21/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com, "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:54 PM They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 21 20:17:23 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:17:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A0 2D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I run. I think ARE sells them. - Tony Drews At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: >FOT, >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? >Ron Jacobs >Western Eagle Racing > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 21 20:21:59 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:21:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 23:20:47 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:20:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? Thanks, John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Mon Sep 22 00:13:17 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:13:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Message-ID: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI From elkhorn at core.com Mon Sep 22 04:17:16 2008 From: elkhorn at core.com (elkhorn at core.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <5412.198.208.159.17.1222078636.squirrel@newmail.core.com> ?????? I would like more info on ARE. ?????????????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 04:38:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the XXXXing stewards (?) decision... Glen -----Original Message----- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 05:45:07 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:45:07 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220081145.15395.48D78543000A7B4B00003C232207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? How can Tony not already haven been a FOT???? SECOND! Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:21:06 +0000 Size: 646 URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 22 05:47:01 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:47:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0 A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James >#116 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 06:03:02 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:03:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:50:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:50:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: Joe C That is "FEARFUL" with a strong disclaimer on "LEADER". FEARFUL INSTIGATOR.....may be more appropriate. There are some inaccuracies in the article as I failed to get back to author. Just read the parts you like. Joe A > I just got my copy in today?s mail and found that there is a nice article > on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. > > Joe C. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:59:32 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:59:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- I am from Iowa....I know. Pilots used to have a device called H.E.R.E. Human Element Range Extender. Unknow if ever used in racing applications. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 22 07:06:27 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:06:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43239629DCE2427B8E6AA17ED1CF596E@richardiipc> I think it's called a chain. The Japanese use it in their temple architecture to direct water flow by capillary attraction instead of gutters and downspouts. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 22 08:11:28 2008 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Big Healy wheels Message-ID: A close friend of mine lost his home/garage recently due to fire. He did however, manage to salvage a set of '3000' disc wheels/hubs. (luckily his FV was outside in the trailer) He is located here in E. Colo., e-mail is rmvr53 at aol.com His name is Bill Fleming. Perhaps someone you know may be in need, or like a set? Sorry to bomb the list here this morning, felt it important we help a fellow vintage racer out. Thank You. Kev Lynch GT6 #6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 08:22:38 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Don Elliott wrote: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During > the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the > aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Ya gotta watch those ground effects thingies. They really can blow up in your face. > Back then, they didn't > wear full racing helmets, but goggles. Ya, they were manly men, for sure. >From the video interviwer's manual: when interviewing winners after long races, be sure to hold your breath (or pinch your nose if you're off-camera). :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:01:16 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:01:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> "Tony Garmey" . On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James > >#116 > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 22 09:23:35 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:23:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by equipment"! ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 09:30:52 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:30:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think they'll reverse the decision. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the > XXXXing stewards (?) decision... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_mosley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 22 09:32:28 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:32:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Welcome new FOT member Message-ID: <48D7BA8C.30400@cyberspeedway.net> Dan, Welcome to the Friends of Triumph. The website is www.fot-racing.com We have a lot of info and support that I am sure you will find helpful. Greg Lund From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:44:07 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:44:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220844u2014bd4cte5eb680a3447dbab@mail.gmail.com> I have had good success with the Fidanza aluminum flywheelwith a simple modification. I had the holes enlarged and countersunk to take ARP Insert Washers[200-8563]. These provide a hardened steel support for the bolts and keeps them from enlarging the holes in the flywheel by "walking". You can see a picture of the flywheelwith the inserts and ARPbolts at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/250RebuildShotsFlywheel#5248867166626193810 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others > have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a > lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock > flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a > scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light > custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum > flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I > run. I think ARE sells them. > > - Tony Drews > > At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > >FOT, > >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? > >Ron Jacobs > >Western Eagle Racing > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:28:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:28:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: <094BEC18-64C3-4FA2-8B68-773155CF98C9@bnj.com> I suspect so as well, though their timing is monstrous. The hearing is before the Singapore GP, which means Hamilton will have to travel the day before practice if he appears. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think > they'll > reverse the decision. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:30:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:30:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8ABEB138-E501-4FE0-A1FA-B03EE7D8D2DC@bnj.com> Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:23 AM, Don Elliott wrote: > Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by > equipment"! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > They really do? > Learned something today. > > > - From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:36:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > "Tony Garmey" . > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage > Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 11:44:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:44:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. Message-ID: Babcock wrote: > Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than > cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. > > When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Mon Sep 22 11:57:41 2008 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels References: Message-ID: <02f801c91cdc$b6946090$32620143@your55e5f9e3d2> Gee, Gary, didn't know you knew what i looked like! Art d. ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: tony at tonydrews.com ; westerneagleracing at att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Flywheels Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1684 - Release Date: 9/22/2008 6:39 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bill at hartproperties.com Mon Sep 22 12:00:18 2008 From: Bill at hartproperties.com (Bill Hart) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> Message-ID: I second that nomination Bill Hart From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:37 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: fot at autox.team.net; jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: "Tony Garmey" >. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 12:24:14 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:24:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig > Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK > BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling > Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM > *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its > the full 45min. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en > > The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 22 12:29:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <149053.49817.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My neighbor had a Mexican workhand that was faster with a knife than I ever saw on the streets of N.Y. He would sneak up behind the piglet,?grab the hinds, have him flipped over, and the "boys" removed with his folding blade before you could blink. James and I prefered the rubber bands on the larger livestock because we could never get Arthuro to try and grab the bulls by the hind legs. I reckon he'd need a bigger knife. ? Famous quotes: Roy Synder in Jaws; "I think we're gonna need a bigger boat" --- On Mon, 9/22/08, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. To: Billb at bnj.com, 58tr3a at videotron.ca Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:44 PM Babcock wrote: Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than ? cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. ?The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. ?I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harmug at us.ibm.com Mon Sep 22 12:40:40 2008 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ignition type questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I'm new to the FOT list, I was racing at the Glen Vintage event and a member, (thanks Marty Sukey) talked to me and now I've now discovered a great resource. I've been racing a 63 spitfire for 3 years now in the northeast in mostly with the SCCA Historic Racing Group but this year I bought some slicks and ran regional HP events too. I've been going through the car, freshening things up and getting it as reliable as a 45 year old LBC can be but now I'm at the stage of what to do next. The car's been around forever, it's been a race car since day 1. I heard from a previous owner, Dave Belden who raced it for 20+ years, that the importer made it a race car right off the boat to promote the new Triumph model. As far as I can tell, the first time it's been driven on the street was 2 weeks ago at the Glen during the recreation of the old race. You can see it on the video that was posted here, I'm the car still at the curb on the right as the cars are going through town. I broke a 1/2 shaft universal pulling away from the curb but that's another story. I'm looking at the ignition system, the car (1296 motor) came with a Delco distributor and a Crane Fireball electronic ignition box and Crane coil. One of the groups I race with doesn't allow crank fired systems so I'm forced to keep a distributor set up. I'd like to ask the collective wisdom here what would my best option be? The engine is moderately worked over, revs freely to around 7800-8000 RPM but the cam I have works best from 4500-7200 RPM. I've looked at Pertronix systems, going back to points (Single or Dual?) or keeping the Crane. I also bought a Crane CD box, with rev limiter that is going to be a winter install but I'm not sure if it's worth the electrical draw on the system. My main reason for the CD was the built in Rev limiter and easier starting when the engine is hot. I'm not looking for the ultimate engine package, I'll trade power for reliability (to a point) and running with multiple groups, often on the same weekend, limits me to one set up that will be acceptable to all. Any suggestions on how to keep this puppy sparking? thanks mike Old Fart Racing 63 Spitfire #7 G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer Automated Material Handling Equipment Engineering Services -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 13:13:48 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:13:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Good One!!! **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:14:13 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:14:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp a-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m osley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:37:28 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> Message-ID: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 14:54:37 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:54:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 15:08:19 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web site think that the appeal will not be successful. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 15:20:54 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:20:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the giggling. Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do 3 and only did 2. Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: Craig ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 22 16:06:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:06:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: At every drivers briefing they say: Stay between the white lines. Think of if this would have been a race at Monaco where the way is blocked in chicanes - no short cut possible - then Hamilton had to drive through that corner and wouldn't be able to overtake end of the following straight. I still think his move wasn't okay and the punishment is correct. From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 17:29:26 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:29:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Paging Steve Groh Message-ID: <092220082329.2698.48D82A560002BFBF00000A8A2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> Sorry everyone else. Steve, we forgot to exchange email addresses at The Glen. I have some pics of your car. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 18:31:03 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221731i568cc91aj205e3ecd0e44b832@mail.gmail.com> Hey nothing wrong there. I swore a fair bit too ;) A. 2008/9/22 WILLIAM TOBIN > > > There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the > giggling. > Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do > 3 and only did 2. > Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. > Bill----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* Craig ; FOT > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. > I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. > > So it was an outstanding experience. > > As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. > > A. > > 2008/9/22 Craig > >> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK >> BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling >> Craig >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andre Rousseau >> *To:* FOT >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM >> *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video >> >> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but >> its the full 45min. >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en >> >> The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. >> >> A. >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Mon Sep 22 18:44:24 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:44:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 22 19:06:36 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:06:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 19:30:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:30:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane >> for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. > > > On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. > > I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a > trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) > down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two > seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday > night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and > describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the > rear. Interesting. > > Bill > > PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race > Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control > of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a > stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn > 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken > neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, > courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to > correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been > running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a > really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 19:47:11 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> Message-ID: <35CBF46BE46848FF95DA688E588F5040@Bud> I am very sorry to hear this news...May God Bless Him... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America > This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: > > ***************************** > > I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America > this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing > community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an > incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell > bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- > right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the > process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run > for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment > point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. > > My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! > > Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a > Hans device let this be a warning. > > Jim Austhof > Red #1 MGB > > ***************************** > > Susan > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 19:48:19 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Eastlake 11 Message-ID: Hi, Sad news indeed about the crash and fatality... Stupid question of the day - what's an Eastlake 11? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjohns at woh.rr.com Mon Sep 22 20:00:33 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:00:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? Message-ID: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tr2phill.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 348970 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 20:10:39 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: Message-ID: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visable and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tiedowns. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: susank at 141.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 20:38:16 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:38:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nominations and such Message-ID: <48D85698.5090901@bradakis.com> Okay, I think I've added everyone and am up to date on recent nominations. But I could be wrong, let me know if you didn't get this message. ( Gee, how many times have I said that over the years? ) For those of who who don't know much about this list and Team.Net in general, I'll give a basic rundown. About 20 years ago a small handful of folks interested in various automotive stuff started sharing their passions using what back then was a fairly new and unknown technology, email. As I was working in the Computer Science department at the University of Utah, the 5th site on the net, I agreed to coordinate some things and run a couple of mailing lists. In the intervening years Team.Net grew and grew, with various lists spawning off as traffic got busier and busier. It used to be run from a machine at the U of U, but traffic got a little too high and I ended up moving to a server of my own at home. Back in December of 1996 this FOT list came to be and has been growing ever since. Currently we have close to 300 addresses on the list. I still maintain things as best I can, but remember it is a volunteer thing, I don't get paid for this. I do, however, once or twice a year solicit donations to cover the out of pocket expenses involved with keeping things running. Check out the donate link below if you feel like rewarding me with a cold one for my efforts. Speaking of links below, I'll add in a pointer to Mordy's fot-racing web pages. Again, I think I've gotten all the newbies signed up. If you've nominated someone and they are not yet on the list, let me know. mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 20:57:02 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:57:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: > Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we > getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low- percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 21:26:43 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:26:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is winning, at least to me. It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to love. Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to read or write it. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:35:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:35:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <091D21E4-FF81-4C68-9D6F-EE9D4563DB9B@bnj.com> It was in turn nine. I didn't see the accident, but from what I've been told his rear end slid out at the entrance to the turn, then hooked up and shot him into the wall. The front of the car is totally flat, as if he had run into an obstruction at 90 degrees, but that couldn't be, both because he's still with us, and because the car wound up down the track about 50 yards on the outside of the track. It was actually a glancing blow, as it has to be in that section of the turn, but taken straight on. The track was drying at the time, the rain had pretty much stopped. By the time group one (my group) went out the track was dry. I started from the back because of some confusion I suspect, and they sent the FV's out first in a split start. They had actually been faster in the rain, but the track was completely dry. I started dead last, was first after two laps, and had a nice run on a very green but predictable surface. Did 1:42 something, about three seconds off usual time, but respectable and Peyote felt wonderful. there just wasn't anyone to play with since Mike Malone wasn't there, Cameron Healy's Pooper had a broken rear spring, and Denny Hatch's Pooper wasn't there. I thought my top speed would be less with the bigger bump in the nose, but I was pushing 7000 RPM at least 200 yards before the turn one kink in the straight, so I had to lift. I think this little bugger will hit 140 with the right rear end, but I'm running a 3.7 now. Anyone know if there's a taller rear gear anywhere? Maybe a 3.5? On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > So sorry to hear about Jeff -- such a great car. What happened? > Wet?? Which wall/turn? > Chuck > > 2008/9/22 Bill Babcock > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:38:10 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:38:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said Bill First, my deepest symapathies go out to go out to Dr. Hermons' family and friends. We have lost another of our own regardless of what he drove and how hard he was pushing it. We all have our own measure of " winning " and I can only hope the good doctor was leading in his own way when he went off. By the by, I got my HANS two weeks after we lost Uncle Jack. Jim Gray -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:57 PM To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net; susank at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:39:55 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:39:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:46:25 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:46:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I couldn't agree with you more Gary. Everything you said is true, and everyone drives these cars at the limit they choose. But most of the folks I meet in racing--any racing--are trying to go as fast as they can. That means respecting the cars limits and their own limits. But they are still trying to go as fast as they can. The notion of 8/10 is that you go eight tenths as fast as you can. If you were doing that you wouldn't be trying to improve your lap times and you wouldn't say things like "at least for now". There are some people driving 8/10ths. But treating that as the norm is simply not realistic. Believe me, I don't race for trophies. If I did, I'd pick another venue. I know there are people who get on the track to parade their cars. I don't do that. Sounds like you don't either. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:26 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, > I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I > wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In > my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we > race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? > Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist > of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in > sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed > in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in > the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I > also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best > efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things > break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire > but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what > do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not > always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is > improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making > some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is > winning, at least to me. > > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race > with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. > No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On > the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my > feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very > best friends and doing something I have come to love. > > Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to > read or write it. > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 22:05:44 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:05:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:58:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: <30FD7B90-91F1-422E-9B8A-F1229E356512@bnj.com> Good to hear from you buddy. Sorry about your car, glad you're OK. That was a nasty one. Let me know if you need anything. I have a TR4 frame up by my sport court, slowly turning back into iron ore. Yours if you want it. On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:05 PM, quicktr4 wrote: > I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the > hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 > really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very > uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. > when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or > 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i > hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some > device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong > advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent > all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. > Jeff Quick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: BillDentin at aol.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership > > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 22:08:45 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> > > I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at Wendover we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and just wanted a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. Sometimes they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. Touring was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited passing and such. In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking out what they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. What always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, but it didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of them, and they'd go into full chat mode. Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it easy, but when it came down to it they were RACING! mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 22:13:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:13:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> If you're a racer, you race. Some of my most memorable races have been practice sessions. I've never been on a track with Cameron Healy without a full on race taking place. Ever. I suspect we'd have at it with shopping carts if we ran into each other in Safeway. Undisciplined , I know, but that's the way it goes. The real reason I do most of my setup on a skid pad--no one to chase! On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> >> I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you >> race > When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at > Wendover > we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. > Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and > just > wanted > a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. > Sometimes > they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. > Touring > was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited > passing and such. > > In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking > out what > they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. > What > always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, > but it > didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of > them, and they'd go into full chat mode. > > Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it > easy, but > when it came down to it they were RACING! > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 22:31:02 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:31:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Thanks Bill. Not I don't parade mine and I do push it, for me. I just try to be as alert and aware as possible and in my case, not knowing the tracks that well, etc., that means taking it a bit easier and trying to stay out of the way of drivers like yourself who are much more experienced. I still have a blast regardless of where I finish but I will say that is usually not last. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jibjib at att.net Mon Sep 22 22:46:44 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:46:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear about the crash Jeff, but I'm glad you are doing fine. Jack (Think the TR3 at cruise night in Covington) _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM To: Bill Babcock; BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:10:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:10:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Message-ID: To comment this. At the European tracks the flags are good visible (okay - except black flag). The corner workers are close to the track and they have lots of flags to show. I only know of one incident of overtaking at yellow since 2004 in our group. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von RACER BUD Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:40 An: Joe Curry; fubog1 at aol.com; kaskas at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:12:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:12:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> Message-ID: I'm happy! If I ever make my way to USA I won't starve because I always can order a Bratwurst. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: David Kettler [mailto:dkettler at powercom.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:43 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I was raised in Sheboygan, Wisconsin which is the Bratwurst capital of the world. It's also not far from Road America. Dave Kettler ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'FOT'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:16:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:16:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> Message-ID: Even driving at 8/10 is no insurance of having a crash. Things can break, other drivers can bring you in trouble. I?m facing to race on the N?rburgring this weekend, the most unforgiving track you can imagine with an average speed of 85-90 mph. Losing control there will hurt, maybe kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 07:49:53 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:49:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: In a message dated 09/22/2008 10:27:52 PM Central Daylight Time, GSFuqua1 at aol.com writes: > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a > lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a > parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were > to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I > would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to > love. > Good for you Gary. All good points. As a point of reference, let me add some info to my use of 'high speed parade'. It is a variation of a quote from Bob Tullius, who as Honorary Grand Marshall at an early ELVF, was asked what he thought about 'vintage racing'. He stepped on our toes and said something to the effect of...I don't think you should do it, and if you do, it should be more like a 'high speed parade' instead of real racing. Kind of hurt our feelings when he said it, but clearly he was influenced by his background, the risk involved, and safety issues. In the same question and answer period he was asked his favorite circuit after running at so many venues. I was surprised he said, "Brainerd". When asked why, again safety was the issue. He said, "Brainerd, while fast, is safe and forgiving." Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 08:40:36 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:40:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 23 08:42:17 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:42:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB277E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is this the FIA equivalent of saying "Well, if you don't know, I'm certainly NOT going to tell you!" ?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 23 08:52:52 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> In essence, they decided not to decide the case. "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the appeal submitted by McLaren." The text of the "opinion" can be found at: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 JR Hill Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > decision had been From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Sep 23 09:36:57 2008 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !!> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500> From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com> To: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied> > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case.> > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren."> > The text of the "opinion" can be found at:> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793> > JR Hill> > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com:> > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday> > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton> > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner.> > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a> > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible.> > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix> > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather> > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards'> > decision had been> > > _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 10:56:19 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:56:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was "this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR's 'debris on the track yellow flag', ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race." Gary 62 TR4 From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 11:12:14 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:12:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Message-ID: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 23 11:28:32 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:28:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, well, can't get too wrapped up in the politics and economics of the thing. I just watch the races. It's been a great year for that. On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Gary Horstkorta wrote: > I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well > connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA > penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow > flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the > points race.? > > Gary > 62 TR4 > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM > To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > > > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 13:30:28 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:30:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c91db2$d7be0ab0$b1191718@computer> They would be doing their best to make a dollar out of the deal for themselves. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:12 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunda y's Si ngapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 23 14:50:13 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <350468.58985.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is your friend insinuating that NASCAR uses the yellow flag to make races tighter or "fix" races? My GOD! That's blasphemy! At least we still have WWF wrestling; that's real. --- On Tue, 9/23/08, Gary Horstkorta wrote: From: Gary Horstkorta Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied To: "'Tony and Annie Garmey'" , spyderweb at uwalumni.com, fot at autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 11:56 AM I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race.? ? Gary 62 TR4 ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied ? FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 15:04:50 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:04:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crank Scraper Orders-Manufacturing Status Message-ID: FoT For those you have crank scraper orders: I contacted I-J today and asked for a schedule. We all know that there have been delays. I have not cashed any checks sent to me, nor has I-J billed me beyond some material costs. If you have any urgencies, I will forward your schedule concerns. If you wish to change your order, please advise. Kevin puts a lot of time and thought and detail into these assemblies. (Jack & I decided that we could never follow his act) There is also an issue of a medical surgery that is pending, although it is not being used as an "excuse". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Here is what I received today for scheduling: Daniel C (separate customer from the group buy) has been providing a lot of help with the Crower crank scraper (three exchanges of templates). I have that pattern now so I will be making Bill B's two sets (Crower/Carillo and Moldex) and Dave T's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------- Today I will cut out Leo O's (TR6 2500 scraper) and Kevin L's (2000 GT6). I already have Dean T's cut out and am assembling it. All three will go out today. Note: Kevin L's order was picked up by someone else. I need to address that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Thanks, Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 23 15:57:59 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:20:05 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:20:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Bill... You're absolutely right about tow points. It is difficult with some cars, like our Thunder Bolt and Talisman with their tilting bonnets. The Talisman has other issues in the rear that complicate things. We carry a loose strap with the T-Bolt, and have built a convoluting contraption for towing the Talisman. It works, but takes time to hook up. The Mini involved in the Eastlake incident at ROAD AMERICA last Friday had four tow hookup points. Two in the front and two in the rear. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 9:11:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, william.tobin3 at verizon.net writes: Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visible and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tie downs. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: _BillDentin at aol.com_ (mailto:BillDentin at aol.com) To: _susank at 141.com_ (mailto:susank at 141.com) ; _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? _Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) . ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:48:40 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:48:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: _Kas Kastner_ (mailto:kaskas at cox.net) To: _for at autox.team.net_ (mailto:for at autox.team.net) Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 17:29:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:29:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] "UNCLE JACK" wins at Targa Newfoundland Message-ID: The Driving Team of Hopkins & Hughes won the Targa Newfoundland outright for the second year in a row. (Can they threepeat in 2009?) A 1969 BMW 2002, aka as 'WOODSTOCK', sported an UNCLE JACK decal. This seems appropriate to his memory. He won it all in LIFE. Oh yes, Sunday, the 21st would have been Jack's Birthday, too. JHA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 18:11:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:11:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: FoT, There was a creative collaboration between The Vintage Triumph Register and the Friends of Triumph....largely thanks to Blake Discher, President of VTR. These posters were provided free of charge to Registered VTR members and the FOT who were at the Glen. The poster was a huge hit and many of them were signed. A keeper in any case. It is 12 x 18, a nice size to frame and very Period Looking with a Le Mans TRS. It is devoid of any commercial logos and such, by design. I brought a few back with me. I promised to hold one for a few folks, that were unable to attend, but of course I dont remember who they were. Please contact me if you want one. If you want one, it would be good to send me $10.00. That ought to cover a mailing tube and postage. It might take me awhile to send as I am backlogged with work, but I will do my best. Thanks Blake....I hope we can collaborate more with VTR in the future. Since we dont have a formal organization, perhaps a VTR membership is in order for the FOT. FOT Gary Horstkorta and others have been contributing to the TVT Magazine, edited by our FOT Mike Cook, so there is a fair amount of FoT Content, you might enjoy. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Tue Sep 23 18:49:51 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:49:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3a58 at verizon.net Tue Sep 23 18:58:31 2008 From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: <2147528.552201222217911058.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 19:22:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:22:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:24:38 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:24:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:46:43 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:46:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: Hi Joe, The radiator that I used for years in my TR4 was from ( I think) a 1967 Mustang. It was the "Heavy Duty Desert" radiator, and I am not certain what other years it would fit. The outlet and inlet were good, and I had to make a couple of simple brackets. As I recall it cost me $89.00 from NAPA, and my TR never saw the far side of 190 degrees ever again. Cheap, simple, and very effective, it filled up the space quite well. It cooled so well that I never bothered to build any shrouding around it! Good luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:25:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smockracer at charter.net Tue Sep 23 21:26:05 2008 From: smockracer at charter.net (Paul Smock ) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race References: Message-ID: <6AADCFD5D1FB4BE29EA90EF279076D17@fred> I will be there with #190 and Sally with her new knee.GOOD THING. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: kaskas at cox.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 23 19:12:23 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:12:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's References: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <00a201c91de2$9a1e9640$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Tue Sep 23 22:13:44 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:13:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 06:25:57 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:25:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: Jim, Lot's of us are members of the VTR and also our local Triumph clubs which are for the most part Chapters of the VTR. I believe one of the requirements for becoming a chapter is to hold an annual event, which we seem to be doing with the Kastner Cup. Although it wouldn't help the autocrossers and hill-climbers on the list, any additional promotion that would result from an "FOT Chapter" of the VTR putting more Triumphs out to race for the Kastner Cup gets my vote. On the other hand I think there is some provision for a monthly newsletter and as a loosely organized group with no dues, rules etc. I don't think we want that kind of obligation. Speaking of annual events, the Texas All British Car Day, my local club's (Hill Country Triumph Club) annual event is this weekend near Austin Texas. We are in our 18th year and this show was created specifically to meet the VTR requirements. If you are going to be in the area we have a rallye Saturday afternoon and a participant's choice car show Sunday. We had 144 cars last year. Contact me directly for info. As always I'll be bringing my racecar to promote vintage racing. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:14 PM To: Herald948 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:16:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:16:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals - Decals in the mail today. Message-ID: FOT, For those that sent requests & SASE for the Uncle Jack Memorial decals, I have them sorted out and ready to send today. Those contributions from the mailings and at Watkins Glen will be bundled together with the original envelopes and sent to Aunt Frances and Tony, shortly. Sorry for the delay.....I am catching up on the loose ends. Thanks to everyone for all of the interest and generosity on behalf of the Drews Family. What a non-group of Friends! Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 24 09:35:49 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Jim wrote: > From: Jim > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > To: Herald948 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net, bdischer at blakedischer.com > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:13 AM > Andy, > > To what point? > > When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 > I'd asked a friend > familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. > I was told of > one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on > the side curtain > TRs. > > My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda > confirmed that idea. > > To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post > sidecurtain cars went into > the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the > TR7/TR8s. > > There are members on this list who are die hard VTR > members. There are > folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about > the VTR. At > best. > > So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? > And what are the > requirements, and dues? > > > I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I > won't like what I see > though. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser > and a barn full of projects. > > _____ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM > To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time, > tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: > > > Joe; > You might be surprized as to how many FOT members > are also members of > the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in > the beginning. > Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and > yes, National > Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car > Nut". > > Dean Tetterton > > ==AM== > Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is > 113. ;-) > > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT > members so inclined: > perhaps we could become some sort of "Special > Chapter" or "Affiliate" of > VTR? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's > more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying > Circus (22) > > Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The > Vintage Triumph > Register: http://www.vtr.org > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) > and Triumph Herald > Database: http://triumph-herald.us > > > > > _____ > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> > calculators. > ____________________________________________________________ > Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/_______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:40:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:40:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Thanks to Joe Richards, Family, Friends and Robert Smith - TS1 LO Message-ID: I'd like to take a moment to thank all above....and more below. The weekend at the Village and Watkins Glen International was greatly enhanced due to the participation of the TR2 TS1LO. Thanks to Joe & Dottie for their involvement in perserving this important Triumph Hertage. Special Thanks to Robert Smith who made this happen. Robert made this happen at no small cost and risk. But what a send off to Hawaii! Huge appreciation goes to The Village of the Glen who did an outstanding job of Honoring TS1 LO. Posters, Programs, The Gary Horstkorta Article, and a Commissioned Oil Painting...... Thanks to Classic Motorsports & Moss for the use of their facilities at the track to secure TR2 TS1 LO during the evenings. Thanks to SVRA for their use of TS1 as the Honorary Pace Car driven by Robert & 'Navigated' by Kas Kastner for the Triumph Feature Race. I am sure I am overlooking some folks. Anyway, please feel free to respond with any relevent comments. Regards, Joe Alexander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 09:40:58 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:40:58 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. Steve Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 09:57:05 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Yikes. I know those things are pretty, but they are a leak waiting to happen, I hate brake fluid on stuff. If it was anything but brake fluid I would suggest the standard rusty tank cure--an internal coating. But I'm not sure what coating would be certain to hold brake fluid. You pull the whole thing off, block off the outlet with a fitting and pressurize the tank while it's full of colored water and find your leak, then solder it. An easy way to pressurize the tank is with a pressure bleeder system. If you can't find a cap to fit you could make one with a rubber stopper. You only need a pound or so of pressure to turn a dribble leak into a spurt. Especially if the fluid is thin like water. On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:40 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister > that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the > tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. > > Steve > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 24 10:20:22 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 10:28:06 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 10:41:34 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:41:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 10:52:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:52:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1E79BEA1-A0A3-4697-A326-9B9C5C47D4D2@bnj.com> If you are a good fabricator it's a relatively easy thing to build. You can get an adjustable bias pivot from Tilton and do a nice job. Tilton also has nice girling-pattern master cylinders with remote or integrated reservoirs. If you build a bias-adjustable system I suggest you make both cylinders the same size so you can share a spare rebuild kit between them. Some master cylinders have residual pressure valves already installed. Make sure you take that out for the clutch or you'll toast your thrust bearings. Don't ask how I know that. Peyote's box is home-made and has worked well for eons. You can also build one without the adjustable pivot and just make up a selection of bars with varied ratios for front to rear bias. On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:41 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for > 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine > before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake > master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc > setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc > setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus > shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still > extremely safe? > ------Original Message------ > From: Kramer, Robert > Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual > circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall > find. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > > >> and find your leak, then solder it. > > That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's > soldered > together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So > bringing > one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder > joint and > allow it to pull apart, etc. > > I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. > > Randall > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 11:28:40 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:28:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c91e6a$fd41e2d0$74513542@jrg> Doug, It was VTR. When I talked to the officer about joining they were more than happy to take my membership dues... when I asked about what VTR did all I heard about was the National Convention and Concourses/shows. Maybe I had selective hearing, but I wanted to hear about driving events (rallies, etc). So I joined just a local chapter (affiliated with VTR of course) and derive enough benefits from that membership. I'm also a member of NASS and there was an attempt to get NASS affiliated with VTR. VTR never gave a compelling reason for the association... just seemed to be kind of a "hey, I'm a Triumph club and *you're* a Triumph club, lets get together". The attempt failed as VTR never agreed to pay NASS for the privelage of being allowed to be assocatied with NASS. Or something like that. ;) I look forward to details on what exactly a "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR entails. Cheers, Jim Dallas 76 DM autocrosser and too many other projects. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mitchell [mailto:dmitchel at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:36 AM To: Herald948 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4t16llChFXmXY2kDAO0U8O7cFEuMtXr1uP0OY2tFmj23CgXG/ From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 13:00:31 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:00:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I went with the UK set-up because I was restore a car raced in the 60's and I knew it would look the part. I guess it was Revington's and the exchange rate was a lot better then. My previous car, a TR4 hada TR6 master cylinder and it worked fine. Of course it was not bias adjustable and it required some reinforcing of the sheet metal mounting area. That may be the easiest route. -----Original Message----- From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net [mailto:colordog.1 at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:42 AM To: Kramer, Robert; fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 24 14:06:11 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:06:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <004001c91e80$fde302d0$6501a8c0@LatitudeD530> When I first read the 8/10ths comment, I assumed it related to some kind of vintage rule about slowing by that amount in the proximity of an off-course car, or something similar. It simply never occurred to me that there is an assumption that vintage racing is to be carried out at a such a reduced level. I suppose the fraction refers as much to effort as it does to speed, but using our usual measure of speed, 8/10ths means you are adding around 20 seconds to a typical 90 second lap time. I know that some of us (in our younger days) have been known to be susceptible to the dreaded "red mist," but at the other extreme, if I were driving at anything resembling an 8/10ths pace, I'd be a little concerned that I could potentially overlook something like a yellow flag. I'm a firm believer that for myself, as my speed and adrenaline go up, so does my focus, awareness and attentiveness to the serious task at hand. Obviously there is a point (and this is the red mist territory) where the desire to get past the car in front of you can preclude the ability of one's brain to see much else, but I'm clear that vintage events are not the place for that. Not many racing venues today are for that matter, although there have been a number of drivers (Nigel Mansel comes to mind) who've been richly rewarded for just such behavior. DT ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; susank at 141.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 16:16:43 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:16:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service Message-ID: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Wed Sep 24 13:40:03 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: Message-ID: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 16:43:27 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:43:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 17:00:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:00:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Jonmac, Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? The Internet does have different effects. On the one hand it does make it easier to FIND local clubs. 10 years ago in Dallas we'd have people walk up during a show and be amazed that there is a Dallas club devoted to Triumphs. As you point out, having information "freely given" does make some people feel less urgency to join a club to get answers to the mysteries posed by the elusive "Stan Part". As part of Allexperts I've been advising people on how to fix their Triumphs. My usual advice? Look at the VTR website for vendor information, and look at the VTR website for local chapter information, as a way to hook up with other owners. I also do strongly advocate picking up a Bentley manual for their car, instead of relying on some idiot on the internet. Wish I got a commission from RB. I think the US clubs are starting to hit a balance point. The "original" unmolested cars are either ratty or gone. The "restored" toys are still out there, although not driven anywhere as often at they were when new. Most of the people with restored cars are aware of the different clubs and I suspect that when the cars are sold that information is also passed along. The new owners might not take note.. until something breaks and they're told by the suppliers that it's "NLA" new. Then they'll find the clubs again. Some of the race cars will be "barned".. or put out to rust like the side curtain car in NJ. Some more of the ratty unmolested cars will find their new lives as race cars. As I understand it, the 1997 VTR National in Dallas was the first to have a separate concours class for "prepared" cars. Or was I just sunstroked from running the Autocross that week? I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ Wanna lose weight? Weight Loss Programs that work. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tK0SsK9n6LkTvyKdM7PPU9nkmPDtnTck07Kqvz4xpGXufc0/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 18:10:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:10:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: > Andy Mace wrote: > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so > inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or > "Affiliate" of VTR? > > I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially > summarised as follows: > > 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) > and because of that, there should be room in your local or national > club to accommodate your usage preference. > 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners > are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club > memberships > 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast > custodians and will need to have 'a home' > 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my > perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this > 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base > is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be > viable as heretofore. This begs the question > 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable > eventuality? > 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club > membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already > known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent > > With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates > to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." > Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide > 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the > internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. > > Rant off > > Jonmac > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 19:10:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:10:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 19:32:47 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:32:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A > Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've > kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage > Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous > emails...... > The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! > Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's > REALLY the way it is.!..... > > Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way > To Tell..... > Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very > often..DO NOT RACE....... > > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 24 19:36:15 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:36:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: _Bill Babcock_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) To: _John Macartney_ (mailto:standardtriumph at btinternet.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) ; _bdischer at blakedischer.com_ (mailto:bdischer at blakedischer.com) Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) _http://www.fot-racing.com_ (http://www.fot-racing.com/) Fot mailing list _Fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:Fot at autox.team.net) _http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins _Billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) 503.936.7660 _www.bnj.com_ (http://www.bnj.com/) Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal _Bill at kenalu.com_ (mailto:Bill at kenalu.com) _www.kenalu.com_ (http://www.kenalu.com/) blog: _www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog_ (http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 24 19:42:10 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:42:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080925014414.XBDT6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> I very much appreciate my wife's understanding. We will all go in our own time. Be it on track, driving to the Super market, watching TV (that happened to an Uncle of her's last month) or asleep in your bed. She had very little concern when our son started racing karts at 9 (he's 16 now) because of the precautions taken and once he demonstrated sufficient skills she had no more concern. Safety gear (suit, helmet, etc...) and the fact that there are the wonderful corner workers and EMT's on site. Nothing like that available to him riding his bike or skateboard in the neighborhood. From dos_gusanos at msn.com Wed Sep 24 20:11:53 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:11:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 24 21:22:53 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:22:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:18:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80aNzGXgpDIvE9AxeUSLkHBoTWezdCTAgnr8LS5ESecs3o/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:30:41 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:30:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <002c01c91eb6$b5a80b60$455d3542@jrg> Ultimately vintage race groups are going to look at grid numbers. If numbers (read $$$) fall then it's time to accept more modern cars. The group I ran with in the mid-90s evidently had trouble filling grid spots. So it was a "run what ya brung" kind of mentality. Once the sport got poplular they could afford to enforce vintage rules.. to the point that they're about the strictest vintage group around. They've starting cutting off the Lotus 7 copies as it was a means of also cutting off all the AC Cobra copies. So, if they're allowing cars without history to race.. there's always another Spitfire or TR6 lurking out there (my barn is full of them ;) ) to keep the '72 and older grid full. On the flip side.. if they enforced a history requirement on vintage racing... how many of us have cars with sufficient history to keep running? So... unless you can convince your local racing group to start accepting Yugo YV1s... keep looking at the pre-73 vintage legal car projects. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:23 PM To: 'Kramer, Robert'; 'John Macartney'; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPNdwsU8sLwd8w4M94LqflMy8jnTaVWm8HVwQQn4GyfSQ/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:53:09 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:53:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Message-ID: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:54:20 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:54:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: David W. Riddle ; fot Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:56:56 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:56:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <106933AE6DA04673A7F47C49BD4E79B9@Bud> Terrific Stuff Steve...We are what we are! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:58:35 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:58:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <58BF5375715D4671B367DADB5FFD1C10@Bud> Wooohoo..YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:32 PM Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 21:00:28 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:00:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> References: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> Message-ID: <48DAFECC.4010909@verizon.net> Most people just don't get it. It ain't how you die that matters, it's how you live. Kurt O. RACER BUD wrote: > YEAH BABY! > Racer Bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* dos_gusanos at msn.com > *To:* David W. Riddle ; fot > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH > > > > My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far > have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know > people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week > I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus > murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate > the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. > Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member > of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered > with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck > me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 > and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was > in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from > '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to > converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine > the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, > in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out > gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every > bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium > large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 24 21:06:00 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:06:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 12:14:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, britbits at netzero.com writes: To what point?... There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. ==AM== I wasn't seriously proposing anything, just kinda tossing out the idea since I understand there's been recent talk about expanding such affiliations in VTR. Blake and other current members of the Board would be the ones to talk more about it. Following "traditional" Chapter guidelines as per VTR's Constitution and Bylaws, it would actually "require" little more than at least 10 members of the group also being current VTR members. What would it gain FoT? Probably very little, particularly since the most formal aspect of FoT is its informality. ;-) But it might gain VTR more; I don't know.... In another post, you wrote: "I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take." That recognition has been there in VTR for quite some time now. As you note, there are "prepared" categories in the Concours at National Conventions as started in 1997. Our own Joe Alexander has served as the "Racing" vehicle consultant for VTR, listed right there in the magazine with all of us other Triumph model-specific "experts"! In recent years, coverage of FoT-related events and cars has been quite good in _The Vintage Triumph_ magazine. Maybe all that's more than enough, rather than make any FoT members uncomfortable by, in any way, formalizing the organization by virtue of a stronger and more official connection with a group such as VTR? Heck, I'm getting to the point where I tend to follow the philosophy of Groucho Marx regarding organizations, in that at best I'm wary of joining most groups that might welcome me as a member! :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 21:16:59 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Holy sh#t, that was beautiful. With a little editing that could well be my new toast, or maybe I'll save it for my funeral (hopefully quite some time from now). We all know death possible in our game. Nonetheless, we endure. Our loved ones know the possibilities, but they allow us our crazy assed efforts to win, because they know it's part of who we are. So pull on the nomex, pay homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:36 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > Hi Bud, > > I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. > > We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable > possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. > > Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try > not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It > could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives > have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They > still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than > they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... > > Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could > happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. > > So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most > won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll > just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 23:04:56 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:04:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to the pan. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM To: REK46 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 23:23:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:23:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <5211510A-4051-44E3-BD07-063B13287122@bnj.com> Not really. If you have too much flow, for example if you use a big line instead of a restricted one, then the oil won't drain fast enough. So don't do that. A big line will also rob pressure and volume from the bearing, which need the oil a lot more. Supplemental oiling is meant to keep the shaft and rocker arm bushings in good shape. But they are relatively cheap parts that can be easily replaced. On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:04 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that > if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM > To: REK46 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Wed Sep 24 23:29:58 2008 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:29:58 GMT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 23:39:26 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Message-ID: <004b01c91ed1$1390e1b0$14523542@jrg> Hey, ain't no death happening here. We drive Triumphs.. by definition we are IMMORTAL! Or some such stuff. I've taken more risks on my daily drives to work than I ever took on a race track. And had more accidents (1) in that daily drive than I ever had at speed on a race track. But again.. if it ain't fun.. why do it? Call it what you will. Making a corner you didn't think the car could make. Beating a lap time that you thought was unbeatable. Getting past (fill in the blank) when you thought a pass was impossible where you tried it. Sure, there's a risk involved. Breathing air risks inhaling toxic crap on a daily basis. But if the reason you took the risk was just to prove you could... well, that's wimpy. If you took the risk because you enjoyed it (and survived)... that's classic. So, puleeeze, do not speak to me of death on a race track. Talk to me instead of risks taken, sucessfully overcome. And occassionally, chances taken that did not work. If you want to obsess about death.. I do not want to be on the same race track as you. I prefer living, thank you. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:53 PM To: britbits at netzero.com; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Catpusher at aol.com Thu Sep 25 00:30:36 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:30:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Humor Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 10:24:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Subject: Supplimental oil feed to head After returning from an involuntary trip to Vietnam, I raced Nationals for 25 years; are the above subjects related? lol ps, off the net for a couple of weeks. Hardy **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 02:53:00 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:53:00 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Message-ID: <020601c91eed$a6797570$0201a8c0@Bevan> Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? I'm advocating that Triumph clubs as a whole should be able to accommodate all Triumph enthusiasts, regardless of how those enthusiasts use their cars. So Yes, I'd be delighted if VTR could find a slot for FoT within its overall structure. But then, I don't know the inner workings of VTR, I live in the UK - and I sure don't want to get involved in what some might say are 'politics' :::))) Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 03:03:59 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:03:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:22:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:22:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head... again In-Reply-To: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> References: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8CAED075AB5F128-162C-94@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Like said in my first reply to the original poster, and has been mentioned by others, you need to restrict the amount of oil so as not to fill the rocker box,. If you are sucking it down the intakes, check stem/guide clearance and/or fit stem seals. Again, it is very simple to let a piece of plexiglass into an old cover so you can actually SEE how much oil is getting to the top end. Another benefit to doing this mod is that it ensures a good supply of oil to run down to the cam & tappets. Many of these engines suffer from lack of oil to the top-end & this results in heavy wear to not only the rocker gear, but the cam & tappets, almost always on the front most cylinders. Having been into one or two of these engines over the last fourty years... I see a real benefit from doing this. Or OTOH it may be a waste of time & $$... JMNSFHO, Glen -----Original Message----- From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net To: Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; cak at dimebank.com Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 1:29 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:33:41 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:33:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Message-ID: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. HTH Glen link to full text, kinda long- http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD To: Bill Babcock ; John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 9:10 pm Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept? kinda'?Quiet about the subject ..Regarding? Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things?as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... ? Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the? word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... ? Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belo ng to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a?truly?great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about?parliamentary?procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic.? I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but ? unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part.? FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought.? On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? ? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: ? 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent ? With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all."?Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. ? Rant off ? Jonmac ? ? ?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 25 04:15:48 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:15:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> John Macartney wrote: > Bill Babcock wrote: > You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. > Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones > that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library > (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment > here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a > claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants > about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to > decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. > > Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to > them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter > Motor Appreciation Society" > > FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--*perish the thought*. > > Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR > isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a > democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I > don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep > foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels > association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as > well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one > of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but > because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America > should copy. > > Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... > > Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 07:32:23 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.com (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:32:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <20080925.093223.210.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> I used the mounting kit for Weber's and some longer studs. The kit has the o-rings mounted to an aluminum plate and has the rubbery spacers to hold the carbs snug to the manifold. I just had to elongate a couple of the holes in the o-ring plate and the plate will slide right over 2 diagonally opposing studs. I used a little Hylomar on the o-rings as a little sealant. Joe(B) -- "BOB KRAMER" wrote: All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body.Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PMSubject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Shop now for huge discounts on quality surveillance cameras. Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijltMADfJAQzpYWuALtmTzhPjswvNZrZ4ifex2oCVORq3upkO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 09:25:27 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <28ACC2EF-2D16-4307-8C85-497176AAA988@bnj.com> That's a really fine piece of work, and it should probably be read on a yearly basis about the same time you get your physical. I don't normally consider myself obsessed with death, but rather with living life well, and that includes a fair amount of risk. I have to rationalize that risk against all the other aspects of my life that I treasure. I believe that I race the way Burt describes. Unfortunately more than just a few friends of mine who are no longer with us also took those risks, and behaved well, as Burt describes. All are gone too soon, some forty years ago, some this year. I lost two good friends this year, who were doing things I love to do in the way I love to do them. I think about them every day. I still do all the things I love, but I miss my friends. On Sep 25, 2008, at 2:33 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. > I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. > HTH > Glen > link to full text, kinda long- > http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html > > -----Original Message----- > F From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 25 10:02:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:02:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Grand Prix Festival-The Legends Speak FoT Message-ID: FOT: More well deserved thanks...to....Kas Kastner, Ed Diehl, Bob Johns, John Macartney: The Legends Speak. The FOT was well represented and they held the audience attention for more than an hour. Brian Redman was there, too, but decided he was unecessary to the success of the program and quickly passed the baton. See note from Committee Chair, Lew Durland, below: > Joe, > Thank you so much for all you did to make The Legends Speak a very > successful event. We had a record turnout for our event, and all the speakers were > great. I greatly enjoyed meeting John Macartney and hearing his humorous > stories from his days at Triumph as well as his very sobering personal tale of > PTSD. Bob Johns spoke fondly of his racing at Sebring in 1957. He and and his > wife were very friendly and I enjoyed speaking with them immensely. Kas > provided a great view from the technical and managerial perspective, and it was > great to see Ed Diehl again and to meet his wife Linda this time. > > Thank you so much for arranging and bringing the speakers for this event. > And thank you for keeping after me. All in all, it was a success. I heard > many compliments and good comments. > > Thanks again for your invitation to stop up at the Triumph paddock. > Unfortunately, I ended up having other commitments to which I had to attend during > the rest of the weekend, so I never got back up to the track. We hope you can > make it back next year. > > Lew > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 25 11:01:24 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:01:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race In-Reply-To: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> References: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAED477A30E2C0-11F8-D48@webmail-de16.sysops.aol.com> Yes, Mike and I will be there.? Allen Weins and Jerry Alford as well. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 2:57 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October? 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 25 12:49:15 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:49:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsnook at wcnet.org Thu Sep 25 14:09:19 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:09:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> Message-ID: <9D440054696D4EA7A853440DA0EB12EA@JeffsNotebook> I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: Gt6steve at aol.com ; budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1688 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:29 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 23:34:20 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:34:20 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <022e01c91ed0$5cc03120$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Looks like a little spoiler on there, doesn't it, Jack W.? ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Johns To: FOT team Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 15:06:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:06:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 12:05:36 AM Central Daylight Time, jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > Jim... I don't remember the particular fix for that, but it reminded me of Donnie Sopp and his Spitfire. He had an engine leak he'd spent months if not years trying to fix. Unsuccessful, he finally developed a gutter and down spout system to deal with it. True story. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 16:12:59 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:12:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: > I resemble that remark!! > > Jeff Snook > > Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 16:34:48 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01c91f5e$ebe85ab0$c3b91010$@racer@comcast.net> Bill: I concur. One of the best races I've had was with a good friend of mine, he in his Alfa GTV and me in my TR4. We raced for a whole session, as fast as we could , nose-to-tail, side-by-side, swapping positions but we did so respecting each other's space, no unsafe maneuvers, just good, clean racing. Of course it helps to know who you're racing with, it makes a world of difference when you have confidence the drivers around you won't try any unsafe moves. One of the practices our club preaches is "get to know the other drivers in your group". The club also puts a letter G for Guest or X for Rookie on the rear of a car which helps experienced drivers ID new cars out on the track. 10/10ths racing can be fun and safe.if you race with your head and not your foot. Gary From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:13 PM To: jsnook at wcnet.org; kaskas at cox.net; Gt6steve at aol.com; budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Sep 25 17:15:07 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:15:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Message-ID: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:21:31 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service In-Reply-To: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> References: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> Message-ID: There is a cell tower on the Lime Rock premises, it is Cingular/ATT which I have. Works great. Perhaps (I don't know) there is a roaming agreement for T-Mobile as they use GSM technology ATT uses also. My friend has Verizon and says service is ok in certain areas of the paddock near big bend, perhaps in other areas also. Verizon uses CDMA technology as does Sprint. He had Sprint previously and it was not good at Lime Rock but that was a few years ago. NASCAR and Grand-Am visit Lime Rock each year and last I knew NEXTEL worked also, at least during their events. Perhaps since NEXTEL and Sprint merged Sprint service is better (Sprint and NEXTEL use different technologies). Are you planning on next weekend VSCCA event? I'll be there somewhere! (what car?) Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:17 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1690 - Release Date: 9/25/2008 7:05 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:23:32 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:23:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 17:45:58 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message starts getting through to people... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let > them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the > weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper > official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm > also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, > after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm > about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the > weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, > threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard > with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to > sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression > took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning > warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful > of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one > douchebag move and you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:46:29 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:50:48 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:50:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> Message-ID: <43BB6E2B-F9AA-4CCA-B7B8-7BE78218BE80@earthlink.net> I don't know if any corner worker saw it and I didn't report it, or go talk to the guy and say, WTF? I probably should have. Getting to this race was a big personal goal after some tough times. I was elated that the car worked so well and didn't want a confrontation with a jerky driver. BTW, the new Uncle Jack axles were in the car too, for the first time. ~Steve On Sep 25, 2008, at 4:45 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In > fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, > and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message > starts getting through to people... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" > > To: "FOT" > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This >> meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, >> let >> them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the >> weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper >> official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm >> also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, >> after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and >> I'm >> about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the >> weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left >> and >> moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >> threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing >> hard >> with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to >> sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression >> took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning >> warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful >> of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one >> douchebag move and you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From spreiss at verizon.net Thu Sep 25 02:45:47 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:45:47 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c91eeb$1b25a6d0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I find it amazing that Phil Hill could have taken all those marvelous photographs while at the same time competing at the top of the heap. That takes a LOT of depth as a human being, and a huge amount of self confidence. Anyone have the book yet? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark W. Nicholls To: 'FOT team' Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 18:19:51 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:19:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 25 18:44:19 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:44:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Porter To: John Macartney Cc: Bill Babcock ; fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT John Macartney wrote: Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. Michael Porter Roswell, NM ----------------------------- As both an FOT and VTR member, I say the current relationship between FOT and VTR is just fine. Each addresses a different set of objectives and goals. I was VTR president for 8 years and I think VTR, as a club, does a great job doing what it does. So does FOT. The trouble with just the concept of a formal affiliation is that it usually ends up looking like one entity is then subservient to the other.....and I don't think FOT or VTR wants that. Just my 2 pence. Cheers, Bill Sohl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 18:54:30 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 19:04:45 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:04:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:16:40 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:16:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <073D6A0404F24F44A57B3D2977B78146@Bud> what's the 'R' word? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: "'Steven Belfer'" ; "'FOT'" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days > of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant > I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool > so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I > needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to > the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to > the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap > time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made > me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to > get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:18:01 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cwn74 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 19:33:28 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 20:00:02 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:00:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Video/250K Message-ID: <092620080200.18611.48DC42220005A8C5000048B322007614380E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Was that a perfect downshift by Tony going into turn 10, or was that 11?? Also,some good footage of the Peyote. Out of forty or so TR's, didn't anyone have an in-car video for the feature race? Any other footage out there of races or re-enactment? By the way, if you happen to notice the two lenghty skid marks on the re-enactment video just before the bridge, #116 is the owner. Webmaster, Tony Garmey's e-mail address is horizonracing at msn.com Thanks for all the seconds for Tony's membership. John James TR4 #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 20:17:53 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:17:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: <66C5DB41-6E3E-452D-8CD6-B7B3FF8238E6@earthlink.net> Hello all, Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of the story will follow. I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 25 21:05:21 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best > take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:16:14 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:16:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: Message-ID: Every Minute Counts! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 25 21:16:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:16:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 21:24:56 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:24:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009301c91f87$7430efe0$fc503542@jrg> Leon, Point taken. For me the distinction is... recognizing the dangers vs obsessing about them. When I melted a piston and the car filled with smoke in turn 1 at TWS at 100+ mph.. my immediate thought was "well, I've had a fun life so far, so if this is the end, so be it". That was in immediate crisis mode. The car kept running, the smoke cleared and I drove the car back to the paddock to toss it on the trailer. It's only been time and money that have kept me from getting back on track. Not fear of the grim reaper. I respect the gent and I know I will meet him someday. It doesn't stop me from doing the the things I like. And I hope to raise my son to also enjoy racing, in whatever form is still allowed 20 years from now. Darned carbon footprint radicals! Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:05 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ____________________________________________________________ Reduce your debt up to 40%. Click here for debt consolidation information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1pXCtz9kQtHxKzFXWAd7p8x52sxhO4q3sur3FcnKJMFM/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:30:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:30:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3B3EE88659964A7AB2C5FCBDDA3797E9@Bud> Of course not Tony..thanks for your patience Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing > Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? > > - Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:51:20 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:51:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage > events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games > feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw > "Days of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad > idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show > them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them > cool so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was > in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what > I needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved > him to the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close > to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw > some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a > yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his > lap time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and > made me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my > best to get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move > and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future > holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:53:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:53:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <64CFD007-D2BD-4445-BD80-9491F49110E2@bnj.com> Hey, Racer Bud, how did I get dropped from the newsletter. I thought the only way to unsubscribe was to kick. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:18 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: michael cook > To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party > CSPRRC 1975 > > We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten > years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British > Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got > about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. > Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" > lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only > wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. > > We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was > close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a > certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across > the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have > alcohol on the other side of the rope. > > You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink > in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night > victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten > and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn > Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed > bottles. > > Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original > "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first > one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent > named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we > crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a > female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have > a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. > > I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, > one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called > Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. > > No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could > always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and > donuts the next morning. > > And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington > brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and > a Bell AiroCobra. > > Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? > > Mike Cook > > > > From: cwn74 at aol.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 > Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC > 1975 > > > I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British > Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing > Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. > > Boy were those the glory days! > > David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. > The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we > all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm > still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). > Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, > Triumph, Jaguar) were there. > A grand time was had by all! > If only I took photos! > > Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! > > My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this > event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! > http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html > > > Clark > Clark W. Nicholls > '72 Stag '74 Spitfire > "Reality... It's not what you think. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:05:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:13:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:13:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed-- your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > I understand the intent.... > > When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the > understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to > pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. > > Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? > > One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to > allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session > and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. > > When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini > Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation > was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use > that information in order to make a safe pass. > > I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage > group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule > is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if > you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be > agreed before cars hit the track. > > It all comes down to communication. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > too many toys, not enough $$$ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete > before reading. > > > I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the > "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed > that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was > traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want > to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why > were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to > be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed > and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to > the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place > that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. > > There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you > are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this > guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always > passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally > lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the > line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to > drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the > most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. > I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up > on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower > than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect > for that, lift and wait. > > If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path > through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you > can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd > have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in > any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was > to blame, but you are responsible. > > We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with > picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you > don't belong anywhere near the racing line. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Steven, >> >> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >> events... so >> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >> games feel >> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >> "Days of >> Thunder" once too often ;) >> >> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >> idea to >> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >> them the >> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >> To: FOT >> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >> This meant I >> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them >> cool so >> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was >> in the >> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what >> I needed >> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and >> feeling >> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >> done >> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >> "Warm-up" >> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >> him to the >> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >> close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at >> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw >> some >> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >> yellow >> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >> lap time >> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >> and made me >> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >> best to get >> my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." >> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their >> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move >> and >> you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future >> holds. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet > tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:24:25 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:25:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:25:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 22:31:08 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:31:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: <965138683-1222403544-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1387949309-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please don't continue with the pee funnel topic either. Steve ------Original Message------ From: Tony Drews Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 22:33:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: 'FOT' Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:37:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:37:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:38:36 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:38:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c91f91$be87ce60$fc503542@jrg> I won't argue against your points in a race session. But the orginal point was that it happened in an early practice session. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that generally a time for racers to figure if the car is running correctly, and for newcomers to the track to figure the track correctly? So.. doing a full bore racing manuever in that scenario might be a bit... wrong? Yeah, I've only done 2 weekends on track. But somehow even I don't think I should be scaring the chickens that early in the morning. Lemme take control. Assume I'm doing brake checks during a race session. If you blow by me in this scenario.. I won't blame you. I'm doing the dumb*ss thing. But in the first warm up session in the morning? Come on. Think about it, before putting fingers on keyboard. That's the essential reason that accidents happen. People don't think about what they're doing, when they do it. And the people around them don't expect it. But let's separate blatantley stupid driving from possibly normal warmup procedures. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:26 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: britbits at netzero.com; 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ____________________________________________________________ Stop losing your hair. Click to restore your hair. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uQUmK9hKxhJGomxOdWv94q9K1lfcQrS0QzImXxTCCceshca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:44:08 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:44:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00ff01c91f92$84615f70$fc503542@jrg> Actually, I have no issues with being on track with you. As long as we're clear on the rules. If whatever groups says "stay on line".. I'll stay on line and expect you to have a clue on what that means. And if they say "go off line if you're slow" then I'll go off line. Pretty simple, isn't it? And at the end of the day I'll have the playboy bunnies as I'll have been the "nice'" racer. ;) Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:37 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:45:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would > be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, > thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year > VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and > Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have > fun with the rest. > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Define "speed". >> >> Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, >> or the normal speed of the run group? >> >> If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced >> speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal >> definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? >> >> What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or >> predicable drivers? What's safer? >> >> Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up >> session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that >> scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? >> >> Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? >> >> Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? >> >> Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate >> sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. >> >> We're just supposed to be out there having fun. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> >> From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was >> talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, >> in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing >> organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on >> the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe >> nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able >> to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I >> bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >>> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted >>> to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >>> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If >>> it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >>> before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >>> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >>> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >>> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at >>> speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are >>> driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is >>> the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >>> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >>> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >>> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >>> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor >>> told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I >>> considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any >>> day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In >>> contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, >>> they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where >>> they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>>> idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>>> done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>>> him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble. >>>> >>>> ~SB >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>>> Future holds. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>> >>> Bill Babcock >>> Babcock & Jenkins >>> Billb at bnj.com >>> 503.936.7660 >>> www.bnj.com >>> >>> Editor >>> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >>> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >>> >>> Bill at kenalu.com >>> www.kenalu.com >>> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >>> diet tips and solutions. >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel >> online. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:01:38 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:01:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: Amen to that!! Thanks Tony. Gary Fuqua **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:07:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:07:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I remember them fondly. In fact I think one of Kas' books has a picture of Peyote and I surrounded by a bevy of them. Cute little buggers, lots of pink and white spandex, and friendly too. I wanted to take some home, but I don't think that would have worked out all that well. I was just interested in the shade, honest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:33 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of > the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand > Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the > CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the > pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim > To: 'Bill Babcock' > Cc: 'FOT' > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:09:01 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:09:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg><05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <012101c91f95$fe5c9bc0$fc503542@jrg> Gee thanks. This is making me reconsider my effort to put togther a vintage race Spitire (got a couple potentials in the barn) as I'm not really sure I want to be affiliated with the racing mentaliity I'm seeing tonight. On the vintage racing scene the Mini drivers have seemed to be a more reasonable lot. Maybe that's the tack I'll follow in the future. Thanks for being on the FOT list. Sorry I didn't meet the entrane requirement of being a b*tth*le. Cheers, Jim Dallas Spitfire(s) and other toys. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:45 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. 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Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Orlando Vacations - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uGWEce7IsFzNhi7xTVixlHPtdiIQ3cBkR1WCWkhu72GOf7w/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:15:57 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:15:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:19:37 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:19:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:23:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:23:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c91f97$f4099040$c2523542@jrg> Gary, I'm movin' on. It's been interesting... but the noise to signal level has gotten too great lately. Time to move on. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com [mailto:GSFuqua1 at aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:20 AM To: Billb at bnj.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Love Music? Get a degree in Musical Education. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vGvDJ1b3Ut25IsB2futtu2SOC7Y17bLJvEKP4OWxqLTeFgy/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:26:01 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 23:44:21 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:44:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:37:06 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:37:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall safety of the group. After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to our camp/towbeasts? So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my car. Again.. my decision. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWY5idilhSq8QjPaYQfAOFZQGwscO80OlTBrLr13J7sns/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:48:47 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:48:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9567A579-998A-4BBA-A715-0EC124E86589@bnj.com> It's always a little confusing Gary, and I was really trying to be helpful. If you're at speed--your speed, whatever that is, then stay on the line. It's the overtaking driver's responsibility to pass you safely. If you're fiddling around, or something's wrong, or there is a reason why you're not at speed, stay well away from the line. I've been in this situation many times myself, trying to figure out something about my car, or dealing with an issue. At those times you need to be extremely cognizant that there may be people coming up behind you that are more committed to a line than you are. Unfortunately there really isn't a "right". I've been to tracks where the organizing body makes a big deal about pointing people by. But that can really be a problem--overtaking drivers probably have a plan to get by you. Telling them which side to pass you may be very problematic, especially if you're a relatively new driver. If you point to the left you are probably going to automatically drift right. Which may be where they were headed. That can turn a simple pass into a pretty exciting moment for everyone. Some organizing bodies go the other way and make a big deal about NOT pointing people by IF YOU ARE AT SPEED. I prefer that, but I can deal with either. I'm really not in that much of a hurry, and most vintage racers aren't either, but I understand how people can wind up committed to a line. If you are not creeping around, then don't worry about it, drive your line, race your race. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:15 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told > to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to > pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is > where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't > have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know > what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is > going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold > them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around > the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at > Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple > digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line > was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that > happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. > > I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for > one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just > someone's opinion. > > Thanks for listening. > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:51:52 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <005c01c91f9b$fb054bb0$c2523542@jrg> I've only raced with CVAR. What is the guideline in other vintage groups? In CVAR the rule (law) is that you drive your line. Anyone making a pass has to respect YOUR line. I've never had it qualified for if you're doing brake tests, engine run in, etc. If you are in front, you run the line. Obviously, if the car is sick and you're just nursing it to the pits, you run off line and let the run group through. Common sense. Unless you're at speed. Whatever "reasonable" speed might be at that point on the track. Then you keep running the "line". So.. good luck in the future. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here for easy weight loss help and diet information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4unVt4TsgIIfTXLJGtoYA9uaoLvwWSTBxFNkusDDIofER7Ai/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 00:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> References: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Message-ID: You do realize Jim that you've only been talking to me? For myself, I'd say "don't let the door hit you in the ass" but there's 200+ far nicer people in the FOT. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Jim wrote: > Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall > safety of the group. > > After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to > our camp/towbeasts? > > So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like > suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the > essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it > more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. > > If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. > > Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my > car. > > Again.. my decision. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM > To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question > of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and > that of others I race with. > > Cheers, > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film > school near you. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtalbott at archrepro.com Fri Sep 26 00:20:01 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:20:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Is you is, or is you ain't on the line? Assuming that you have clearly signaled your intention by waving someone around can be a problem if the overtaking car doesn't see the wave, or if he's is already committed to the line. Without having been there, it's unclear to me what the "red 2002" perceived as he approached the slower car saw in front of him. Moving "a bit to the right" and being "pretty close to the line" may have communicated very mixed signals to others who are halfway through a green flag session - even if it is just a morning warm up to some. Carroll Smith always talked about carrying a spare set of brake pads in his brief case that he had bedded on a test day just so he never had to worry about it on a race weekend. That's not to say that you can't (carefully) bed brakes or heat cycle (and cool)sticker tires during a hot session, but do your best to make your intentions obvious and stay the hell outta the fast line as much as you can. Even that can be tricky when you're transiting through connected left-right corners like esses. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: quicktr4 To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Fri Sep 26 02:21:18 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: Message-ID: it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 07:25:18 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:25:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ...and to a lot of us, that defines the 8/10's rule. Racing just as hard as you can, coming up on a slower car approaching the apex and giving up the pass because you know he will be taking the line. You go 8/10's. If you are going to keep up with the guy you are stalking you may have to go more than 10/10's, getting to the edge of the grass and kicking up the gravel or use you're edgy, maybe risky, off line driving skills. In vintage most times we take it safe and slow it up to either go around or take a position in line behind the slower car, knowing that our prey is getting away. That is what we do in vintage, apologies to Bob Tullias. The above has nothing to do with the car that is out there bedding brakes or breaking in the engine. When we are on the track, practice or not the line is for racing. The other drivers won't know what we are doing and as Bill accurately pointed out if someone is going at a vastly slower speed the pointing thing doesn't always work. When in doubt we get in line. So Gary, I don't have a speedo in my car, and I rarely look at the dash at the end of either of those straights. Just how fast are you going at the end of the Hallett straight? Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:16 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dotts46 at aol.com Fri Sep 26 07:31:24 2008 From: dotts46 at aol.com (dotts46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:31:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New email address Message-ID: <8CAEDF34E76D8E8-1480-2485@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com> Please note new email address for Dan Otts dotts46 at q.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 26 08:09:48 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:09:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Back at the old Skippy school, the instructors often said, "If you're ahead of , oh say, Henry Morrison, it's your corner. If it's Mario Andretti coming up behind you, it's his corner." It's all a balancing act of knowing your abilities and situational awareness with the ultimate goal of getting your car back to the pits in one piece as close to the front of the pack as possible........................... From: budscars at comcast.netTo: GSFuqua1 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.comDate: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700CC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrybarr at charter.net Fri Sep 26 08:18:11 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:18:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> I would think if you are moving less than your racing speed you should have a hand in the air as a signal that you are slowing. If you are racing at the speed you are capable of then you have the line. Just my 2 cents worth. On Sep 25, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come > away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven > says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven >> was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing >> speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in >> any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed >> to be on the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not >> safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not >> be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't >> say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, >>> the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone >>> wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe >>> pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" >>> to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. >>> If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to >>> delete before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not >>> want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, >>> why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you >>> need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you >>> are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you >>> are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line >>> is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if >>> you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago >>> this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why >>> I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He >>> was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving >>> instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the >>> line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter >>> in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit >>> "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's >>> battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they >>> need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and >>> wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a >>>> bad idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just >>>> about done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I >>>> waved him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 08:38:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:38:11 EDT Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: Outrageous FOT behavior to be encouraged. Three races, starting with the Glen. And one pending. Great personal accounts of the experience. It puts "FOT" in large caps. > Hello all, > Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to > send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was > gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and > 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went > on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy > for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. > Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] > are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of > the story will follow. > I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive > in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! > Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 10:45:06 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:45:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This may not be a vintage race though. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 10:58:04 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:58:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! Message-ID: FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Fri Sep 26 11:07:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:07:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." Patience comes to mind. If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if someone is chasing him, still dumb move. If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. A. 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 11:12:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:12:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468082C8-4001-414C-B2B4-B3AB5CAA587B@bnj.com> From the look of the field that passed him during the spin, I'd say he had a lot on his bumper, and he would have had lousy corner exit speed, so the train may have nailed him. Still, it's hard to win a race when you're plastered on the guard rail. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." > > Patience comes to mind. > > If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if > someone is chasing him, still dumb move. > > If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. > > A. > > > 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:53:42 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:53:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: *Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers* Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 12:25:28 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots > might be interested: > > Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers > > > Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. > I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist > and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. > > > I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to > street standards. This special car includes: > > A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The > cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. > > New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker > shaft. > > Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of > 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. > > Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable > ignition timing > > Electronic tach. > > Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with > Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss > great!) > > Hi torque starter motor > > Newly cored stock radiator > > A new paint job -white over previous white. > > A new professionally installed convetable top. > > New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 > rears. > > A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw > out bearing > > A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential > > Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar > > New brakes and stainless brake lines > > Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion > > Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. > > Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar > > 5 Point Sparco seat belts > > OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. > > Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. > > > The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably > 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for > track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an > uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. > There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working > on fixing that problem. > > > Pictures are available at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# > > > I am asking $8000 for it. > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 26 12:57:42 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:57:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> Message-ID: Without defending my awe-inspiring race car driving, let me just say that I was trying my best, having a blast, 100% focused on being a good driver. So was the other guy, who, by the way was hauling a$$. He passed me in the dirt, how ungentlemanly of him. ~Steve From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fri Sep 26 14:27:29 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal Message-ID: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> 97 520-170 N/A SEAL Purolator Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Mine was toast when disassembled and Moss has it listed as N/A. Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 13:43:38 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Fri Sep 26 16:18:15 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:18:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! References: Message-ID: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Also Ed's wife Linda, "The Better Diehl!" She was very friendly, encouraging, and helped me get belted in a couple times. As did their friend Tony A to Z, Funny, in 1971 I used to help him (Tony) get belted into Oscar's McLaren! Funny how things are. Anyone going to the VRG race at the Glen in Oct? Take care all, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Kramer, Robert To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 16:27:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: I really enjoyed seeing those guys. It's been more than a year since I last saw Hardy, which is much too long, he's one of my favorite people. A real pleasure meeting Jack Wheeler and Ed Diehl, great fun talking to them. I think they both thought Peyote was a little on the weird side, but then who doesn't? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 26 16:28:30 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal In-Reply-To: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <1E9875A6B21A4C9DB11275DF4E235C45@jdnet.deere.com> > Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Dunno if it's actually in stock, but TRF has them listed. P/N 500328. Randall From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 26 22:27:45 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:27:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Wow, and it's barely around the corner. Hey Bill, we can work this out. I have the space, but not the funds. Sounds like an even split to me. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:25 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: TR list; Triumph; Friends Subject: Re: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine-fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well-probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 27 06:49:13 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:49:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 27 08:26:16 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:26:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News Message-ID: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 27 08:31:42 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News RIP PLN NTXT In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAEEC4E50E6B48-BC-5933@WEBMAIL-MY28.sysops.aol.com> . From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sat Sep 27 09:38:06 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:38:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRg7UpSxO5g Check this out...pretty cool Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: September 27, 2008 10:26 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More Sad News I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 09:57:53 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:57:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One more on Ed. Last year Evelyn and I were at the Jekyll Island SEVTR event and we met Ed. Spent plenty of time socializing with him and both thought he was just one of the nicest Triumph folks around. In conversation he had just casually mentioned that he had raced a Spitfire in the past, nothing more. We were at the Legends portion at the Glen and they introduced Ed Diehl. I looked at Evelyn, holy crap.... had no idea we were hanging out with somebody famous last year. Hope to rub elbows again some time. Marty From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com To: N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I?m sure some of the other ?legends? whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our ?issues?. It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 27 10:24:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:24:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 12:26:20 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:26:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More sad news Message-ID: Amici, A good YouTube video of 2 cars that Newman drove (TR6 and 240Z). A few gaffes, but a great vid anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bv4y7o6BFs Shane Ingate, saddened in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 27 13:32:50 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:32:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I was right about the film. A British Leyland news release about the film says: "Phil Hill and David Hobbs will be pace car drivers and Grand Marshalls at the SCCA run-offs at Road Atlanta, Oct. 31-Nov. 2." Mike From: mlcooknj at msn.comTo: cwn74 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Sep 27 13:44:44 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:44:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] ARE Steel Flywheels-One Left - TR3 TR4 Flywheels Produce TR6??? Message-ID: FOT, I did a production run of 20 Steel Flywheels this year. I have one left at the old price.. $399.00 plus shipping of $15.00. Unless I get another group order, I dont currently plan to produce more. The engineeing is done for the TR6 flywheel, but I will not launch this production without some advance orders. Because of commonality of manufacturing operations between the TR4 and the TR6, I can combine production of the two products, and get a some break on cost. I have the great fortune of having the CNC equipment about four blocks away from me, and a son who can do the engineering. Otherwise it just wouldnt happen at all. Contact me off list if there is interest. Thanks, Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 27 16:28:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <51C8F960-45FC-4BD5-868F-5D9BEC268064@bnj.com> Sounds expensive for an old trailer. You can have my four year old Pace for that, On Sep 27, 2008, at 5:49 AM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 28 13:07:01 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:07:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Hi everyone, I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run vintage with a VMC license. Thanks for any help you can give! Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From tr6nut at verizon.net Sun Sep 28 13:50:41 2008 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:50:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? In-Reply-To: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> References: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Message-ID: <48DFE011.1000508@verizon.net> Susan, Don't know what constitutes "a day's drive" for you, but here's three Fall events: October 16/17, SVRA Season Final, Road Atlanta November 23-25, VRG Turkey Bowl, Summit Point, WV December 12-14, VDCA, Roebling Road (Savannah, GA) Also, if memory serves me, VDCA usually runs a February event at Carolina Motorsports Park. Susan Kahler wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able > to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to > cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family > instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able > to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around > Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within > a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before > April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run > vintage with a VMC license. > > Thanks for any help you can give! > > Susan :) > > From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:02:39 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:02:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: Susan, I so sorry to hear your news. I have been there with my folks as well. I certainly hope things go well for your grandfather and family. Your priorities are certainly in order. Hopefully you can make the Road Atlanta event. I would love to run there and have the Mitty on my schedule for next year in May. Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you or Brad. Cheers & God Bless, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:56:28 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:56:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals for Hallett Message-ID: Just a note to let everyone know I have received a packet of Uncle Jack Decals which I will have with me at Hallett. Thanks Joe A. !! Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 28 16:00:06 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:00:06 GMT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijndXC4XQJF1JR0oE4MZWZvr54hlq3gPflqO9jCRokouzjzRo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 16:40:22 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: do a search on YouTube Paul Newman Walters lime rock for video of Paul and Barbara at Lime Rock last year. Shot by my fellow pit marshal /videographer John Godfrey Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 28 17:41:51 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:41:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <20080928235020.POEW8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryb1lDSbSzY From s.janzen at comcast.net Sun Sep 28 19:10:18 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:10:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of because it would just sit on their lot all winter. A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted tires and rusty frame to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 28 19:57:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:57:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. There's lots of really good trailers around selling for next to nothing. On Sep 28, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a > 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the > factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last > time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various > assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found > it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to > buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of > because it would just sit on their lot all winter. > A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed > trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the > landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. > a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted > tires and rusty frame to me. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM > Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice > > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:01:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:01:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2 TS1 LO Sailing for Hawaii Next Week. Message-ID: FOT, Reports are that TS1 has been secured in a warehouse in San Diego and will sail about Tuesday. Hawaii 5-0 is standing by to dust the entire car down for fingerprints. There was some late night suspicious activity regarding TS1 while it was under the Classic Motorsports Big Top at The Glen. The car may have been molested in some way, but like sheep and llamas, cars make unlikely witnesses in a court of law. I dont think anything will come of it. I asked Robert if it had a few more miles on the odometer, Sunday Morning. He said, "NO, that was the first thing I checked". Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 28 20:18:43 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:18:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. At the US Grand Prix in Phoenix in 1990, I was working a station behind the TransAm paddock. Another worker across the street was trying to signal me that someone behind me wanted to ask me a question. As there were only about 3 F1 cars on course, when they passed by, he yelled at me to turn around. It was raining and these two guys wanted to know if I thought if the track was going to dry up before the TA session. One of the guys had his hat pulled low over his face, but he turned his face up to me to ask the question. I immediately knew it was PLN. I told him that the track might dry up if it stopped raining, but we had a large puddle on the line that passed for a lake in Phoenix. He and the other guy (Bob Sharp) both started laughing. I realized that there were scores of women looking for him but he wasn't going to let them know where he was. I saw him again at Detroit a couple of years later, and he was always very cordial to marshals. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:00 PM To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com; enichol at bellsouth.net; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net; leetheviolinist at gmail.com; rltaylor3 at gmail.com; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sun Sep 28 20:20:49 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:20:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 28 20:31:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:31:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: I have a TR race, but need to edit it. Kinda behind, busy rebuilding my server so I can get the websites back up and running. A. On 28-Sep-08, at 10:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:32:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit Message-ID: This brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... > My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to > another location on the > corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very > apologetic for being > in my way. I then realized who it was. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dos_gusanos at msn.com Sun Sep 28 20:54:01 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:54:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I still have a great photo of Paul Newman on the Detroit grid with Davy Jone's Super Vee team in 1985. I was just getting a snap of the cars when he stepped into the frame. From: N197TR4 at cs.comDate: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 -0400To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Paul Newman at DetroitThis brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 28 16:20:35 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:20:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch > I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years > ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very > aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started > up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He > replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower > watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA > last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that > he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an > SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with > Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. > > > -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of > that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International > Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted > sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I > go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser > and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and > the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." > > > > The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He > says, "No, who are you?" > > > > I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" > > > > The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." > > > > Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he > takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which > they all laugh their collective asses off. > > > > Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it > never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. > > > > If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind > Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. > > > > Richard > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Fashion Design Education - Click Here! > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CWNicholls at aol.com Thu Sep 25 19:23:10 2008 From: CWNicholls at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:23:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] First lap downtown reenactment... Message-ID: Video from 1951 MGTD #928 the first lap of honor from which the Triumphs were forgotten... They can be seen lining the street on the return to town for the following laps. Again, Henry's car stands out! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1421181976941140816 &hl=en Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 06:55:29 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Message-ID: Brakes re-done properly and new bearings,etc. will cost you about $1500 possibly....plus prob tires....electics maybe..plus you may need a brake controller installed ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Sep 29 07:22:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:22:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailer education 101 Message-ID: As always the FoT List was a font of knowledge and helped prevent me from making a bad purchase decision. Being from Texas I was blinded by the perceived value of an A/C unit. To all that responded I thank you. Hopefully the discussion helped others as well. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 08:13:07 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:13:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 08:35:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:35:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... In-Reply-To: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty.? On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From:?BOB KRAMERTo:?FOT ListSent:?Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject:?[Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU#?Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Sep 29 08:45:15 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C0A82F040B44FEB83D03F3EC2AA264E@JeffsNotebook> Hi Glen, If you remember a number of years ago, you and I looked this car over pretty thoroughly at (I believe) Summit Point during a vintage race there. I do remember taking a bunch of photos. He wanted to sell it and I was considering the purchase. I passed on the purchase at the time for some reason I don't remember now. If I recall correctly his son took possession of it upon Bill's death, took it to Colorado, and restored it, painting it the current blue color. He then sold it to Bob Stadel, who has it now and was running at the Glen with us. Vroom, vroom, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From: BOB KRAMERTo: FOT ListSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1696 - Release Date: 9/28/2008 1:30 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 08:58:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Message-ID: Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander > So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of > Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it > was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over > the weekend. > Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. > Just curious > Thanks > Glen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 29 09:03:25 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:03:25 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had a death at the 400 km race at the Nurburgring also ..a Mustang driver crashed at Wehrseifen and was killed on the track. It is supposed that he was way too fast for that corner. You can see skid marks from his braking. Most drivers wanted to continue the race ? incl. me. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 09:12:01 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... THANKS! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAF05CDBFB46AE-94C-B9F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for the info guys! Glen -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58 am Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill ?willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. ? The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we=2 0had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 10:24:20 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:24:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Steel Flywheels by A.R.E. for FOT Some choices in production. Message-ID: If not interested in Flywheels, please delete. If I do another production run of TR3/TR4 Flywheels, I may be able to combine with a first production run of TR6 (later crank). There are some common manufacturing operations that may allow some cost benefits of combining these production runs. Furthermore, I get requests for the drilled and tapped holes associated with aftermarket clutches. Chuck Arnold asks if flywheels can be manufactured without the drilled and tapped holes. This could be a brilliant idea if folks have the capabilities of doing their own mounting holes. (Proof of concept needs to be checked) This would eliminate the transport of the Flywheels to a different Machine Center and reduce the cost of production. My experience with deducts is that it would not be generous. This project may proceed, but likely very slowly. It wont be a high priority, unless the numbers start to look very good. Excel Spread Sheet Time...who is interested if we can do 'blanks' for mounting aftermarket clutches. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 29 13:28:03 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: Message-ID: <117D43C32FAB46749D85830195E525AA@Elliott> There are several photos of this Ambro when it was still green and yellow and Bill Ames too, at Mont Tremblant, one of his last appearances. Look for the photos in the historical section of the FOT site. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 17:29:27 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:29:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <1869AE378BE34161854EDC8835A951FF@S1099895562> I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 18:48:15 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:48:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment machine I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of the others were not working or spotty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tedtsimx at bright.net Mon Sep 29 18:59:20 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:59:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel Message-ID: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 19:48:14 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:48:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel In-Reply-To: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> References: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> Message-ID: <004701c9229e$9b7ac020$d2704060$@racer@comcast.net> I bought several of the items offered prior to Watkins Glen and after receiving the shirts and hat, I am very pleased with both their fit and quality. I'm looking forward to wearing the regalia at our next race in a couple of weeks. Thanks Ted and Scott for all your work in making these "cool" items available. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lfritz82 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:56:40 2008 From: lfritz82 at hotmail.com (Lorne Fritz) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:03:30 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LUK update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83FA0CBF-6DAA-46A7-AD61-2CE289E9C5C1@bnj.com> I have two words for you--linear bearings. As in Saab clutch actuators. I'm not sure what i'd use on a street car, but my guess is that I'd still go for a quartermaster clutch. Bulletproof. On Sep 29, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Lorne Fritz wrote: > After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I > pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. > The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the > last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and > I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage > and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru > the trouble I have lately. Lorne > See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or > on the go. See Now _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:07:35 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: The best way to understand bump steer is to play with some software that simulates roll/bump. Other than that, just do some google searches and read online stuff. Most of the books I've read don't do a good job--no idea why. The most important thing to understand is that you have zero bump steer when the upper and lower inner suspension pivots line up with the inner steering pivot, the upper and lower outer suspension pivots line up with the outer steering pivot, and the instant centers of the upper, lower, and steering arms all intersect at the same point. Instant center is an imaginary line drawn through the center of each link. They usually intersect about twenty feet from the car. what you want is for all of them to come together. If you think about it, it's clear why this recipe would deliver zero bump steer. The only way to achieve that is to design the suspension that way, but you can get in the ballpark by moving the rack up and down--at least you can reduce bump steer within the limited stroke of your suspension system. On Sep 29, 2008, at 5:48 PM, rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its > time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had > the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating > bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps > thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good > but most of the others were not working or spotty > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 22:44:55 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:44:55 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Mr. Paul Newman Message-ID: <093020080444.18306.48E1AEC7000E85040000478222058861720E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Great to hear all the testimonials about Paul Newman. I used to watch him race at Portland International in the early 80's When he was not racing, he was selling his salad oil in the pits by the gallon to all the ladies. When I was telling my wife about all of your recollections, she reminded me of the fact that PN used to sunbath on the deck on his NYC apartment. Her nursing school, the NY Foundling Hospital, was across the street and she and her friends used to fight over the binoculars. I guess he made a better impression than the Pennsylvania college boy at 5 ft 10 inches and 135 wirey pounds driving the Robin Egg blue TR3A looking for a parking space on the street below!! John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 01:47:21 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:47:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: <81E5743A11D24620B9ADD721FF61AA18@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I've been on the road for a few days (took in Oregon State knocking off USC in football and then a bit of celebrating) and I just spent the better part of the evening catching up on e-mails. After pondering the aggressive driving vs 80%, etc I felt I needed to toss in a couple of other thoughts. First off, on "the line" topic. I drive a Spitfire and my "fast line" is significantly different than the line of my Spridget friends. I can easily go inside on many corners while they have the inside front wheel in the air. Then you've got the whole subject of the qualifying line, the defensive line and the passing line. The only true line is the one you are taking. The point is that when being passed, hold your line because the overtaking driver expects you to do so. However, don't be surprised if they don't go where you point and don't be surprised if they pass closer and faster than you expect. This is racing, not a parade. In the SCCA vintage group that I normally race in, I'm on the track with all kinds of vehicles, from the Fiat that can barely get out of it's own way to Lola T70's. With cars that close on me at as much as 60 MPH, I've got to use my mirrors a lot. I most often wave them by and give them whatever track they need! (meaning I'm not on my racing line - watch out for marbles) On the flip side, when passing cars, I use a lot of caution until I've raced (and talked) with the driver quite a bit. Back on the "line" topic, we've got at least one driver that never takes the same line twice in a row. Since he hasn't injured anybody yet, the stewards still allow him on the track. I'll pull into the pits and rest for 30 seconds rather than race close to this....... I've found that there's a lot of difference in driver skills and experience as noted above. This seems to be more pronounced in Vintage racing than in other venues. From my perspective there is a threshold that a driver needs to cross to be "racing" rather than "driving". I started driving Formula Fords in the early 1970's. I drove the cars, but did not really race them until I was getting lapped at a National race in my second year of racing. I'll never forget the sight of about 5 cars that just passed me going into turn 1 at Portland with the cars about 30% sideways and the front wheels moving side to side to balance the drift. I remember telling myself that if these guys could do that, so could I. The next lap I dropped 1 1/2 seconds off my lap time and never looked back. If I get told I can't drive like that on the track (cut back to 80%), I'll buy a boat or something. However, I won't drive that hard if I'm near an expensive car (I race my against cars that are worth more than my house by far) or a driver that I'm not familiar with. I give the expensive cars a wide berth and limit my close racing to my Spridget friends (need more Spitfires in the PNW). Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being safe and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to learn. From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 30 02:07:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:07:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> Message-ID: http://www.ring-fokus.de/videos.php?vid=43 Some imressions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 07:44:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:44:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: In a message dated 09/30/2008 2:52:04 AM Central Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: > <<< Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being > safe > and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the > novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to > learn. >>> > > Succinctly put, Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 10:06:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Message-ID: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 10:11:00 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <891541.40264.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Ed: ? >From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum --- On Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:06 AM Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 30 10:52:49 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> This site explains it all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 30 11:19:56 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:19:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: <20080930.131956.16447.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> A while back when this subject was active someone suggested it was better to have old used clutches rebuilt, rather than buying new ones. I just pulled a Borg & Beck clutch off a TR4A engine that I bought. It has a diaphram type pressure plate. If any one wants it for rebuilding (aside from surface corrosion on the fingers and cobwebs it looks decent), let me know and you can have it for the cost of shipping it to you. Otherwise it will go in my scrap pile to be recycled. Joe(B) After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne ____________________________________________________________ All is not lost! Click now for professional data recovery. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijm33uV3Gze1vp0NkY6mj2So0nJ5CukMH3YFPsxCoFn7XYO8a/ From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 11:41:54 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> Message-ID: <483242.40483.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Joe: The reason I'm not trusting all the available sources is because the STP site says Petty is still a spokesperson, while Wiki says that ended when Clorox bought out the company. Wiki does mention however the Studebaker link in the name which is perhaps how the misnomer was started. These sources are saying Scientifically Treated Petroleum. Thanks - Ed - --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Joe Curry wrote: From: Joe Curry Subject: RE: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net, "'FOT'" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:52 AM This si t e explains i t all. ? ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) ? Joe C. From: fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t [mail t o:fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t ] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sen t : Tuesday, Sep t ember 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subjec t : [Fo t ] Non-LBC group ques t ion ? Lis t er's: I'm wri t ing a magazine ar t icle abou t Indy roads t ers (Kur t is', Novi ', e t c) and am examining t he S t udebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 S t udebaker purchased from t hree gen t lemen a li t t le known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil addi t ive produc t t hey were selling from t he t runks of t heir cars. S t udebaker gave Andy Grana t elli, t hen head engineer and chief t es t ?driver for S t udebaker t he posi t ion of CEO of t he newly acquired company which he t hen?renamed STP. Now my ques t ion...does anyone know for cer t ain t he meaning of STP? I am ge t t ing mixed answers from?The Racing His t ory Group. Mos t say i t s t ands for Specially Trea t ed Pe t roleum, while a few are saying i t s t ands for S t udebaker Tes t Produc t s. Do any of t he FOTers know t he " t rue" side of t he s t ory? BTW, la t er I will rela t e? t his pas t Sa t urday spen t wi t h t hree grea t guys, Johnny Ru t herford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElrea t h, a t a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 12:18:47 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:18:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Message-ID: Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wredinger at oppd.com Tue Sep 30 12:54:36 2008 From: wredinger at oppd.com (REDINGER, WILLIAM E) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:54:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill Years ago when Ethanol was first used in gasoline in the Midwest, I saw a large number of lead soldered brass floats (carb and fuel sender) sink due to the acid from the ethanol eating the flux that was used and thus leaving a weak spot in the joint that the fuel could eventually migrate through. Now that ethanol is in everything ( pump signs may not say it but more than likely it is in all gasoline from 5 to 15 % or E 85%) due to it's cheap octane boosting capacity it may come back to attack these old brass floats. I have successfully used a fuel resistant epoxy to do the sealing like Bob Wismer, since most of my old stash has been consumed by this. Bill Redinger ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:19 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 30 13:14:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <5B1E39BAD1B544A8821A52B9207D7C6B@richardiipc> British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. I first met Jan years ago at a race. She was sitting quietly in their Nomad knitting, sewing, crocheting or something equally domestic. I squeezed in the cabin and she and I got into a wonderful conversation about something we had each read recently. With the grace and patience of nobility she let me go through whatever rant was on my mind. Her contributions were gentle, tolerant and thoughtful. You know, the kind of stuff that all guys fall for. Well, needles to say, I fell for it. I fell for it until she reached out to pick up her iced tea. There on her fore arm was a glorious tattoo, bright and bold. And here was I, caught with the incarnate image of Shirley Jones with a PhD, discussing loftier thoughts than often found in the paddock, and totally charmed by what's his name's wife! Of course we all have varying prejudices about tattoos; pro, con or indifferent. I think I have trained myself to be fairly indifferent, but this one caught me totally off guard. My thoughts were racing, trying to re-create the mood and circumstance which precipitated this adornment. I just couldn't make it fit. In my mind Jan's calm, call it serenity, simply belied the need for personal signature art. So I figured that probably she just stayed stoned all the time and one day she ran out of dope and in a fit of frenzy strolled into a tattoo parlor. That wasn't exactly what I thought, but that was the nature of my quandary. Tattoo or not, however, I was still smitten; still am, in fact. Especially after some 6 months later when I cautiously broached the subject to Joe. He laughed heartily and told me that Jan was just having fun with wash-off tattoos. How perfect! As Kathleen's article points out, Joe's a pretty Boss guy. But as many of you'll know, there is a reason for it. Richard TR-4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Tue Sep 30 13:36:44 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:36:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <380-220089230193644116@M2W018.mail2web.com> She's not my RaceMom for no reason! Jan is absolutely AWESOME. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Richard Taylor tarch at bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 14:24:36 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:24:36 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net May I have a second? Thanks, Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrybarr at charter.net Tue Sep 30 14:38:23 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6E0CA716-85A7-4986-808D-31D4D0E69A6F@charter.net> I will second that!! On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:24 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for > membership. > > He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington > yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car > run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. > > His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net > > May I have a second? > > Thanks, > > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 14:39:17 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <345664.65124.qm@web57615.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Of course.? Now that TA Moser has a race car maybe he can get in on any government bailout as he is about to?generate bunches of unbacked debt. --- On Tue, 9/30/08, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: From: emanteno at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:24 PM Friends, ? I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. ? He is?the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington?yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope?to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. ? His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net ? May I have a second? ? Thanks, ? Irv Korey_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 30 15:04:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Sure, I'll second the nomination. The guy with Irv's car probably could use our collective wisdom. But, if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got through after being away for 8 days, he's not going to stick around for long. I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol days when the FOT email list was all about making Triumphs go fast... > -----Original Message----- > From: Irv > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington > for membership. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 30 15:22:26 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:22:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080930162226.ky8iny5hgk8gkk4c@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Henry Frye: > ...if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks > is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got > through after being away for 8 days, he's not > going to stick around for long. > > I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol > days when the FOT email list > was all about making Triumphs go fast... You'll have to forgive your fellow FOTs for the recent avalanche of messages -- we were busy learning that the way to make Triumphs go fast is to drive them at somewhere between 9 and 10/10ths :-( Jim Hill From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 30 15:46:53 2008 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:46:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill are you using the POR gas tank sealer or the POR 15 black rust fixer/cover up goo? Terry Stetler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:14:49 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:14:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: <48E2A4D9.9010604@pobox.com> I found the book, "How to Make Your Car Handle" to be very useful. rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time > to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and > had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear > and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for > the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of > the others were not working or spotty > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 16:27:45 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:27:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:39:01 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a > lot of his photos were Spits brakes > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Tue Sep 30 18:06:15 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young > Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose > built race cars. > > REK46 at aol.com wrote: > > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot > of his photos were Spits brakes > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 18:43:15 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:43:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman motorsports trubute site In-Reply-To: References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <805678C9DCA24E18ABB32C5F00C9F935@semperon3400> I invite everyone to submit their PLN moment to this excellent website. (and read others) Tribute to Paul Newman Continues Altogether, there are 15 different articles currently up there, expressing a wide range of views. If you've got one you'd like to share, see our CONTACT Section and send it along ... http://www.speedstylemagazine.com/ Note link to PLN Tribute on left of homepage. Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 19:07:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:07:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <001646FB58B74CC491C3453D58C1C630@Bud> Something tells me i'm gettin' a 'Bum Steer' about this ! Racer bud ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Larry Young Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 28 23:09:33 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:09:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <757312126609454DA27D70642554FE3B@KasPC> I've still got a snap shot of Paul giving me a birthday cake at Limerock that he just took from the trunk of his car on a Trans-Am weekend when I was with Nissan. Neat guy, fast driver and just a wonderful guy to hang with. I might add that Jan Alexander repeated this action with a birthday cake for me at Watkins Glen, and she is pretty cute too. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Joe Boruch Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 16:10:47 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 00:14:06 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:14:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27><041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Also, Don't forget the Sunbeam Tiger. And you could probably also point to all the British cars that use a variation of the Buick aluminum V8 (Rover, TR8, etc) Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:24 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections American car with British engine - Nash Healey British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra Which one do *you* want? mjb. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 06:19:18 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:19:18 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 06:38:26 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> ...and the TVR cars -----Original Message----- From: greenman62 at hotmail.com To: Mark J Bradakis ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 8:19 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or Range Rover Greg?Petrolati?Champaign,?Illinois??????? That's?not?a?leak...?My?car's?just?marking?its?territory... > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:23:33 -0600 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Standard connections > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From gwizracing at cfu.net Mon Sep 1 07:27:36 2008 From: gwizracing at cfu.net (Gary Wiezorek) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:27:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen Message-ID: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) Gary Wiezorek, Remembering # 59 From cartravel at pobox.com Mon Sep 1 07:38:27 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:38:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> References: <008b01c90a66$d7adbfc0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> <041f01c90af4$b09f07c0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48BB7C55.4060803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48BBF053.1050504@pobox.com> And with regard to the Allard, Carol Shelby once said, "Where do you think I got the idea (for the Cobra)". Allard is the grandfather of all the British cars with American V8s, and since Zora Duntov worked for Allard and drove them a Lemans, it probably had a big influence on the Corvette as well. Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > From twakeman at razzolink.com Mon Sep 1 09:17:30 2008 From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:17:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. Teriann fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > ...and the TVR cars > > -----Original Message----- > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > Range Rover > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:31:32 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:31:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: one other American car with a British designed engine.... Ford Pinto On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 09:34:19 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> References: <8CADA46C36A88B4-580-2749@WEBMAIL-DG05.sim.aol.com> <48BC078A.1070000@razzolink.com> Message-ID: and one cannot, of course, forget the sale to Saab by triumph of the 4cyl engine that was to go into the 99. On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > If you re dealing with the Range Rover you are dealing with an engine > evolved from a GM design & tooling. If you include the Buick aluminum > V8 derivatives you have to include scads of vehicles like the TR8, > MGBGT V8 and Morgan +8 > > But one should never forget the Daimler Dart nor the Sunbeam Tiger. > > Teriann > > > fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > ...and the TVR cars > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Don't forget the Griffith Jensen Interceptor and Allard either... or > > Range Rover > > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > > > > > From: mark at bradakis.com > > > > > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Mon Sep 1 09:51:15 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 11:51:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] Standard connections Message-ID: Mark J Bradakis wrote: > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > Which one do *you* want? ==AM== I dunno, maybe one of Reid Railton's cars...with Hudson power (1930s)? ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Mon Sep 1 09:54:10 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Standard connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48BC1022.9070000@141.com> German car with Triumph Herald engine - Amphicar :-D Herald948 at aol.com wrote: > Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > American car with British engine - Nash Healey > > > > British Car with American engine - Shelby Cobra > > > > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 1 11:01:35 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:01:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Special TR4 For Sale Message-ID: <000001c90c54$6511a090$2f34e1b0$@racer@comcast.net> Hello: I am posting this for a friend who has decided to sell his historic, race ready 1962 triumph TR 4. This car was raced by D production Regional (San Francisco) and National Champion Steve Froines who won the later title at Daytona in 1965. Specs include: 196 hp engine built by Rebello, engine dyno sheets to confirm; four speed transmission with push button overdrive; three races on engine and trans rebuild. 4.5 rear end with Detroit Locker; spare engine parts and close ratio Dolaimate Sprint transmisson; plus other miscellaneous spares; American racing Mini-Lite wheels and extra set of 5.5 wheels with Yokohama AO48 tires. Raced with CSRG, HMSA and the Monterey Historics four times, most recently at last month's event. Car is period correct, fast and a proven front-runner. $35,000/o.b.o. Contact Tide Ebding at 925-360-2350 tidetr3 at yahoo.com. Note: period and current pictures are available to interested individuals however, I will be traveling to the US Vintage GP at Watkins Glen and will not return until Sept. 17 at which time I can send them out. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 1 15:37:39 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 1 16:27:18 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... _____ From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greenman62 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:36:35 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 23:36:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. An I thought dust bunnies were bad!!! Ick! Greg Petrolati Chamfayette, Illiregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: spitlist at cox.net To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; greenman62 at hotmail.com; jibjib at att.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:27:18 -0700 Joe C. From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Mitchell Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told the movers to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The next time they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They also packed the garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM To: Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Fading fast... >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it was my TR3 and TR8 too. When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: jibjib at att.net To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 Greg, We look forward to your presence in the PNW. Jack From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greenman62 at hotmail.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: Greg Petrolati 929 Jackson St. Lafayette, OR 97127 Of course my email address won't change Greg Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Mon Sep 1 22:44:00 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 00:44:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: I was going to write about all the things the movers have packed on my numerous moves. You win. EEEEEWWWWWW! Bob 2008/9/1 Joe Curry > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. > > > > Joe C. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *Doug Mitchell > *Sent:* Monday, September 01, 2008 2:38 PM > *To:* greenman62 at hotmail.com; Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > > > When I was in the Air Force in the UK, you had to be careful what you told > the movers > > to pack. One of my co-workers told them to pack the kitchen drawers. The > next time > > they went into the kitchen, all the drawers were packed, literally. They > also packed the > > garbage in the waste basket. Fortunately, there was no food waste in there. > > > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]*On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:18 PM > *To:* Jack Brooks; fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Fading fast... > > >I've had professional moved a few times. It's weird to watch some truck > driver head down the road with nearly everything you own. In my case, it > was my TR3 and TR8 too. > > When my wife and I moved from Philadelphia to El Reno Oklahoma in the late > 70s the movers wrapped and packed the dust bunnies... > > >Hurry up Greg. It starts to rain in a month and a half. > > Oh goody! I'll have plenty of time to build my slot track! > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > ------------------------------ > > From: jibjib at att.net > To: greenman62 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Fot] Fading fast... > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:33:22 -0700 > > Greg, > > > > We look forward to your presence in the PNW. > > > > > > > > > > Jack > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On > Behalf Of *greenman62 at hotmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, August 29, 2008 11:30 AM > *To:* fot at autox.team.net; fred peralta; Scott Paceley; Heather Gillett; > don.clegg at carle.com; renee.potter at carle.com; barry.brehm at carle.com > *Subject:* [Fot] Fading fast... > > The movers showed up this morning to pack everything for the move to > Oregon. I moved my family myself 5 times in the space of 3 years earlier in > my life. Baving professional movers do the work a few times over the years > is eye opening. It's amazing how the detritus your life can devolve into a > pile of boxes in less than a day. To think I've been decrapifying for nearly > a year! Leaving my home and friends here has been painful, more so than I > originally thought it would be. Many of you have been like family to me... > To say I'll miss you all doesn't even come close to covering it. > > I'll be camping out amongst the boxes for the next few days so the kitties > can have daddy around until they fly out to Oregon next Wednesday. They have > it easy... once there, they stay at "Kitty Cat Condos" luxury acommodations > until I get things organized at my new digs in Lafayette. If all goes well, > I'll be on the road sometime before noon on the 4th of Sept... in Lafayette > sometime on the 8th. My furniture will show up between then and the 13th. > > If you haven't gotten my new address yet, here it is: > > Greg Petrolati > 929 Jackson St. > Lafayette, OR 97127 > > Of course my email address won't change > > Greg > > > Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois > That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tedtsimx at bright.net Tue Sep 2 07:30:24 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 09:30:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paging Ernie Huesman Message-ID: <48BD3FF0.9040606@bright.net> Ernie, please give me a call when you have a chance. Thanks, Ted -- Ted Schumacher tedtsimx at bright.net http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com 108 S. Jefferson St. Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877 Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.) Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada) Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 2 08:32:48 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:32:48 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen References: <48BBEDC8.6040203@cfu.net> Message-ID: <01f501c90d08$c5b0d650$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wiezorek" To: "Joe Alexander" ; "Tony Drews" ; "FOT" ; "Irv Kory" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: [Fot] Best wishes for a great and safe time at the glen > To all the FOT headed for Watkins Glen. I know you are already packing > and final tuning for the Glen. I wish that I could join you. > > Have a great time, take pictures to share, drive safely, keep the shiny > side up, and .......... most of all, *have fun*. ;-) > > Gary Wiezorek, > Remembering # 59 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 09:11:29 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: Hi, On the quick rack... DO IT. I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't believe that I waited this long. When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly set up Formula Fords - but I digress. Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 1 18:26:08 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:26:08 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Lang" To: "jim hearn" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 > Hi, > > On the quick rack... DO IT. > > I put this off for a long time with my car and now that I have it I can't > believe that I waited this long. > > When your car is set up properly, you need very little steering input to > get the car to turn. That's a good thing. The car shouldn't be "twitchy" > because of the steering rack. If the car is twitchy, you probably ahve a > wierd alignment issue. To be honest, straight line driving between corners > should be pretty boring (compared to constant transitions in autox). > > I've also had a chance to drive several pretty kool autox cars this year > (while my TR6 was broken), and I learned a TONNE about using too much > steering input! The 100cc karts are awesome for this... so are properly > set up Formula Fords - but I digress. > > Bottom line - get the quickrack, it's a great upgrade. If your car is > twitchy, make sure the car is tracking straight and you don't have too > much toe (front or back) and that you have equal caster on both sides and > the car will drive itself on the straight stuff. > > rml > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent > Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! > Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 2 10:43:54 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds quickly and > predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in fast- > road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered springs, > modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also tracks just > fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between 55 and 65 > mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much quicker > steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require a firm, > mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much if not > more effect on turn in and grip as steering. Hmm, different strokes for different folks. I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns _really quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars and all that. The thing with the quicker rack is that you don't approach corners "all arms and elbows". You just urge the car with the wheel and "it turns". I can rotate the car easily, if it steps out, a TINY correction gets the back where it belongs and I rarely "get behind" and spin. It is extremely drivable. With the old stock rack, turning into tight stuff (like pin turns - remember I'm an autocrosser) used to require shuffling the wheel, now I can do almost everything within the about 90 degrees either way from straight up - I never have to put tonnes of steering lock in. So, one setup may be fine for road racing and one may be fine for autocross. I'm pretty sure that my setup would be awesome for road racing, but then again, it'll be some time (if ever) before I could prove that. > Steve P. regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 2 13:48:41 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:48:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Quick ratio steering box for a TR6 In-Reply-To: References: <016c01c90a53$eb856100$b1191718@computer> <000a01c90c92$7f1b64b0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Message-ID: First, these guys are talking about TR4/6 which have a rack and pinion steering system, and second, you have to be pretty forgiving to consider a worm and peg system to be predictable and quick. Vague and touchy is more like it. The worm gear gets worn and notchy, the ratio is not great at the center and goes the wrong way as the wheel is turned, it's miserable to try to eliminate bump steer, and there's a lot of slop in the system. That's why no one used them after 1962 (that I can remember--not even golf carts). Your Triumph feels good to you because it's lashed down like a go- cart. Honestly, if you drove a modern race car you'd be amazed that you can get around a track safely with a TR3. All the same, lots of folks in this very organization do it, and do it well. A triumph of effort over engineering. But don't mistake that for an adequate steering system. It would be okay for an oxcart, but that's about it. On Sep 2, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Robert Lang wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Steven Preiss wrote: > >> I am somewhat puzzled. My TR3 with worm and pivot box responds >> quickly and >> predictably to minimal inputs from the standard 16+ inch wheel in >> fast- >> road/ track like turns. This using 165R15 radials, slightly lowered >> springs, >> modern gas shocks and a vintage TR4 front anti sway bar. It also >> tracks just >> fine in a stright line. (Though I do experience cowl shake between >> 55 and 65 >> mph, it disappears at 70.) Its hard for me to imagine how a much >> quicker >> steering response would improve handling, as cornering does require >> a firm, >> mindful grip. However I am finding that throttle input has as much >> if not >> more effect on turn in and grip as steering. > > Hmm, different strokes for different folks. > > I run a TR6 with a quick rack and a 13" grant wheel. My car turns > _really > quick_. I also run 10" slicks and the car is lowered with sway bars > and > all that. From bswope959 at msn.com Tue Sep 2 14:08:01 2008 From: bswope959 at msn.com (Bill Swope) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:08:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Email Hold Message-ID: I will be gone for 30 days hold my Email lst Wm. (Bill) Swope dba C ME GO Racing 1030 Green Valley Rd. NW Los Ranchos, N M 87107 bswope959 at msn.com (505) 345-6235; fax (505) 345-1180 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjl6n at cstone.net Tue Sep 2 15:17:55 2008 From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Fading fast... In-Reply-To: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> References: <49F83FADAEAC4031B198F351D7D075E6@newcomputer> Message-ID: <3e3c77ba8789aaa3cc31e73465079a62.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net> > When my brother-in-law moved from Plano, Texas to Scottsdale, AZ a couple > years ago, the movers packed a whole trashcan full of dirty diapers. > Needless to say, they were pretty ripe when they arrived. I used to know a someone who worked for a moving company - they lived for moments like that (ie. that was no accident!). John From jerryvv at roadrunner.com Tue Sep 2 17:45:47 2008 From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:45:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Room available Message-ID: <006501c90d56$066ff980$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5> Lists, I just cancelled my room at the Hampton Inn Corning for Thursday 9-5 thru Sunday 9-8. So there is a room available for the asking. I do not know if they have a waiting list and if the room is automatically taken. I will be at the Glen I just do not need this room as I have made other plans. Phone for the Hampton is 607-936-3344. Stop by and visit with us at the WPTA Hospitality Tent in the Triumph Paddock. Jerry Van Vlack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au Thu Sep 4 04:11:56 2008 From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 03:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] TR250 Distributor Message-ID: <174566.28323.qm@web51808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, ???? Does any one have a??TR250 Distributor that?they might want to sell? ?Regards Jim Win a MacBook Air or iPod touch with Yahoo!7. http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 4 05:58:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:58:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Launch Time Message-ID: <4362ae390809040458q2f328f1dy678d01ab88194199@mail.gmail.com> T-Minus 1 hour till the GT6 launches for the Glen. I can't wait. She's loaded down with all my kit, boy I need to buy some smaller stuff. :) See everyone on site late today. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 4 21:20:27 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 03:20:27 +0000 Subject: [Fot] NW FOT again Message-ID: <090520080320.26795.48C0A57A00097975000068AB2200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> To those NW FOT who are currently email enabled: My potential buyer, T A Moser, has advised that he will be partners with a guy named Tim Trolia in the purchase of my TR4. Has anyone heard of this guy? I did receive a deposit today from him, so maybe this is going to happen. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Fri Sep 5 08:42:12 2008 From: jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu (jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:42:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen Message-ID: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 08:55:44 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:55:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere > on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle > cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken > cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If > anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, > please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph > paddock. > > Thanks, > Jason Sukey > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Fri Sep 5 08:48:33 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:48:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74D5D164@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Have him stop at any good bicycle shop along the way and take his broken cable (and ends) in with him. Make sure it's the sort of place where they have a bike tech on site who actually fixes the bikes. They can make up a cable which will get him where he's going - it'll cost something like $10. Scott B. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of jsukey at eng.utoledo.edu Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:42 AM To: fot at autox.team.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen I'm posting this for my dad (Marty Sukey) who is in New York somewhere on his way to Watkins Glen as I type. He is in need of a throttle cable for his carburated TR8, he is limping along now with a broken cable and doesn't expect the bandaid fix to make it very far. If anyone who is heading that way has a cable they are willing to sell, please contact him at 440.225.0209, or find him around the Triumph paddock. Thanks, Jason Sukey _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From zoboherald at aol.com Fri Sep 5 08:59:32 2008 From: zoboherald at aol.com (Andrew Mace) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:59:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen In-Reply-To: <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu> <006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jason send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen ==AM== I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database at its new URL: From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 5 10:44:54 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [TR] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen References: <20080905104212.63klb4hn28g8wc4g@webmail.eng.utoledo.edu><006001c90f67$7a26c8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <8CADD7F2331CFEC-1308-FFE@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <008401c90f76$ba05f540$0300a8c0@Desktop> You never know what Ted may have with him Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Mace" To: ; ; ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [TR] [Fot] TR8 throttle cable needed at the Glen > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig > > Jason > send an e-mail to TSI have them bring one to the Glen > > ==AM== > I suppose it's worth a try...except that Ted's already there @ the Glen. > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, > Triumph Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph > Herald Database at its new URL: > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register > http://www.vtr.org > > > Triumphs at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs > > You are subscribed as wensley_tr at comcast.net > > http://www.team.net/archive From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 5 16:54:08 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] WG Friday times Message-ID: Here are some times from Today's qualifying and practice at The Glen. Sam Halkias TR6 2:14.643 Tom Kreger TR6 2;18.429 Bill Warner TR8 2:18.549 Joe Boruch TR3 2:22.885 Jim Stouffer TR6 2:24.550 Tony Garmey TR250K 2:24.989 Bill Warner TR6 2:25.877 Jack Madison TR6 2:31.977 Henry Frye TR4 2:28.781 Jeff Snook TR3 2:28.349 Tony Drews TR4 2:31.553 There are a lot of others that I left out but for a complete listing of all of our guys racing you can go to the SVRA website. I wish I was there but I don't get my motor back from the machine shop until Monday; just a touch too late! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pvucinic at netspace.net.au Sat Sep 6 02:52:59 2008 From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:52:59 +1000 Subject: [Fot] LIST SERVER TEST Message-ID: List Server Test. Do not Respond. Simply delete. Kind Regards Peter Vucinic TR-4 WORKS _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 13:31:35 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sat Sep 6 14:06:01 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:06:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:01:34 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:01:34 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Cool Can you add any more color rob ----- Original Message ----- From: fasttrs To: fot at autox.team.net ; 'Sam Halkias' Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 16:54:40 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:54:40 -0600 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Message-ID: Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Sat Sep 6 17:08:34 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:08:34 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 17:20:46 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 17:20:46 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification Message-ID: <2C30CCA7C64B472A8303DBD01206844B@hal9000> I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sat Sep 6 17:43:51 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 18:43:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Steve, You can go to the SVRA website, in the event info pull down menu, click on the US vintage Grand Prix. In yellow you will find the "Live" link. They also have a link to the timed sessions. I hope your year is going better than mine. I have spent tons of money on broken motors. Mike _____ From: Gt6steve at aol.com [mailto:Gt6steve at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 3:06 PM To: fasttrs at mindspring.com; fot at autox.team.net; atr6racer at hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race How do we find that "live timing"? In a message dated 9/6/2008 12:37:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Mike Munson Bowling Green, KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 6 18:02:41 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:02:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <40AD3853C1EF41F89CABDE4567D6CAE5@richardiipc> Fellow FoT, I could not make Watkins's Glen this weekend. It's 8:00 Saturday night and I can feel my fellow Friends of Triumph toasting Uncle Jack. I, too, toast a friend, silently and respectfully in my own way. Jack did an excellent job with the life he was given. Those few who may do as well with their lives will also have won that First Overall; a trophy the rest of us can only dream about. Richard Taylor Atlanta From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:24:03 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:24:03 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5292298A-FAAD-4158-8548-B84F8B25AB14@bnj.com> Yup. tony was picking daisies on the last couple of laps so I caught up to him, but catching tony and passing tony are two very, very different things. Pretty cool getting a 2222 in Peyote, #222 On Sep 6, 2008, at 2:31 PM, fasttrs wrote: > I just ?watched? the Group 4 Race on live timing. > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote > ran away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus?. > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > Mike Munson > Bowling Green, KY > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 6 19:35:48 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 20:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing and Uncle Jack. Peyote is running in typically unbelievable form, pissing off people with much nicer cars as usual. Tony and I ran away from all the other cars in group four pretty convincingly. I couldn't see anyone in my mirrors for the last three laps. Lot of grumpy loti, listers, corvettes, etc. tonight. What fun. I had to open the hood and show some of the racers that it's just a TR3. On Sep 6, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Bobby Whitehead wrote: > In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... > I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? > I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the > man. > I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how > I do it. > > All the best to you, all of you! > Bobby Whitehead > #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ > > Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 19:41:39 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 19:41:39 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg advance up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 20:47:31 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:47:31 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> References: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> <804BBE6C-7A7F-4E45-A4D7-7844AF4C83EA@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C340C3.9080003@bradakis.com> Bill Babcock wrote: > We gathered at the glen this evening, I brought a bunch of nice > cigars, tony drews brought the single malt. Had a good cigar, a nice > drink and a good bullshit session with everyone about the day's racing > and Uncle Jack. I had meant to stop and get some single malt on the way home, didn't happen. I did, however, go out to the garage and raise a vodka martini to the memory of Uncle Jack and all things Triumph. I really wish I was there and not here. mjb. From emanteno at comcast.net Sat Sep 6 21:24:56 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:24:56 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <090720080324.28618.48C349880008FAD400006FCA2200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "fasttrs" > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away > from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. Irv From mark at bradakis.com Sat Sep 6 21:45:05 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:45:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> References: <392BF40B76984E39968F6F1B40B78436@RobPC> Message-ID: <48C34E41.4070207@bradakis.com> rob wrote: > Cool Can you add any more color rob Peyote is silver. The 250K is blue. Sorry, couldn't resist! mjb. From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:26:09 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:26:09 EDT Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Sun Sep 7 13:35:28 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:39:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:39:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:21 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:46:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios Message-ID: I keep a 3.65 for the long tracks and a 3.89 for the short ones. At Cal Speedway or Willow I too run out of revs (7800) hence the gearing. I can't imagine you'll ever require a 3.27. In a message dated 9/7/2008 12:36:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, igofaster at charter.net writes: Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned my lesson by now... With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well into turn 1A... lots of top end... Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my foot out of it. Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in place or should I remove them? Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it will catch up. The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... HS 1 3/4 metering RF Float level 3/16 Idle screw 1 turn In Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out Jet 1oo I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need but don't know for sure... Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! Kindest regards, Bobby Whitehead #53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sun Sep 7 13:46:47 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:46:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] oops, correction... In-Reply-To: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CADF38A449F2E2-1520-876@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CADF39994C547C-1520-8C0@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> Group 3 race coming up, I have TRs on my mind... Glen -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: Gt6steve at aol.com; FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Is that cool or what!!! The TR race is in 20 minutes. I'm gonna go huff some race fuel, add to the effect...! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: FOT at autox.team.net Sent: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3? or 4.? Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. ? Hope it was a minor skirmish.... ? Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com._______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From westerneagleracing at att.net Sun Sep 7 13:54:54 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:54:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Message-ID: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 14:58:23 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll probably talk to him today or tomorrow and ask him if he wants to. Mike _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gt6steve at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: FOT at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Congrats to Sam though, how come he's not on the FOT? _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Sun Sep 7 18:36:06 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (fasttrs) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:36:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: I guess by now most of you know Smokin' Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 7 18:43:44 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:43:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: Well, Mike has my second so I should put it out to the entire list. I will happily second Sam for the list and look forward to his inputs...Steve In a message dated 9/7/2008 5:37:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fasttrs at mindspring.com writes: I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 7 19:37:28 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:37:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Message-ID: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Sun Sep 7 22:50:04 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:50:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In-Reply-To: <20080906190834.6MWI6.867848.root@mp13> Message-ID: Just got home after racing at Portland this weekend. It was my wife Patty's turn to drive the Spitfire, and she finished third out of seven in class. Saturday evening, we were sitting with old friends and talking racing and racing people. It was later than 8PM Eastern, as we were still racing that early, but we did talk about and toast Uncle Jack. I only knew him through the FOT, but sure came to admire and appreciate his character, dedication to the sport and his helping others. Thanks Uncle Jack and thanks to all of you!! What a great group. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bobby Whitehead Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:09 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: fot-request at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Raising a Triumph In the evening of many FoT's raising a toast to Uncle Jack tonight... I'm raising a Triumph... isn't that what brought us all together? I think Uncle Jack would appreciate it, although I've never met the man. I've got a fine Dominican cigar and a shot of Patron... that's how I do it. All the best to you, all of you! Bobby Whitehead #54 CVAR Triumph GT6+ Cheers to you, Uncle Jack! _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fpspitfire at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 00:45:17 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:45:17 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 693 URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 04:22:18 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 06:22:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <121249.3253.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080322j20dd3711h360c60e54a376157@mail.gmail.com> I will put all the photos up this morning in raw format, can sort later. Video. I will use youtube, but will try and find a way to to get some downloads out. More to follow. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 8 04:54:31 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:54:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race Message-ID: <4543665B.2ECA33E0.00159EE9@cs.com> was that cool, or what! watkins glen rocks! on the road to newfoundland Joe A > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: "fasttrs" >> I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. >> >> It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran away >> from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. >> >> Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > >Yes they did. They dominated their race. The Tr250K sounds especially sweet at WOT. > >Irv >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 8 05:02:30 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 4:02:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias In-Reply-To: <090820080645.22518.48C4C9FD00064B46000057F622165548860A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080908070230.7NUU3.174262.imail@fed1rmwml41> Fast car, fast driver and nice man, glad to second this nomination. ---- fpspitfire at comcast.net wrote: ============= I'll Second this one! And I'll also nominate him for the "Best Sounding Car at the RunOffs" for 10 years running! That is one sweet sound. Aaron Johnson #87 HP Spitfire 1500 Southern Illinois Region SCCA -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Mike Munson Bowling Green KY -- Never be beaten by equipment From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:35:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 8 07:37:27 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com> <01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> BTW, NIKON was my little point and shoot camera which I used on the run. Fri-Sun was shot with the Canon DSLR camera. If you want to download the full res, use the down arrow at the bottom on the page. A. 2008/9/8 Craig > Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos > Craig > Hope you had fun > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM > *Subject:* [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen > > Back from the Glen. > According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest > stop and the border crossing. > > Awesome. > > GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. > > I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 09:52:28 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:52:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Saturday grp 4 race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809080852l7856b25fvcb2d5c0745b8c4de@mail.gmail.com> That seems appropriate -- Tony just rebuilt Peypte's engine if I undestood Bil correctly. Glad both cars made it there and performed well. 2008/9/6 fasttrs > I just "watched" the Group 4 Race on live timing. > > It looked like Tony Garmey in the TR250K and Bill Babcock in Peyote ran > away from the field once they got by the Corvettes and Lotus'. > > Best times were 2:21.978 and 2:22.277 respectively. > > > > Mike Munson > > Bowling Green, KY > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 12:12:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:12:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen Message-ID: <090820081812.23339.48C56B030001690600005B2B2207020653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Gt6steve at aol.com Looks like the race was run either under a local yellow after lap 3 or 4. Tom Kreger and Russ Moore stopped scoring laps while Sam Halkias went from a 2:12 lap to a 2:20. Hope it was a minor skirmish.... Just got home from The Glen. Awesome weekend. There were some mechanical issues in the all TRiumph race, but no skimishes that I am aware of. I think Dick Stockton (TR4) may have lost an engine, and the white #7 TR6 from the northwest (sorry, don't know the name, just the car) dumped all of his coolant, most of which was dropped at pit in and the pit lane. Sam Halkias was as fast as I expected. Tony Garmey was amazing in the TR250. Did I say it was an awesome weekend? Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 14:10:28 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification In-Reply-To: <009A486E361248CE9EE40BC7214964A6@hal9000> Message-ID: <6573.69373.qm@web81208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim: Are the advance numbers you are speaking of in addition to the static advance you already have in the motor? If so, the two will add up, and that 33 degree number would scare me. If your static timing is 12 degrees BTDC and you add 33 degrees you are in a land few ever venture with TR motors. I don't like more then 30-32 degrees total advance in any TRactor motor. MG's can handle more, but not TR's. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sat, 9/6/08, Jim Gray wrote: From: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification To: "'rob'" <19to1tr6 at comcast.net> Cc: "Friends of triumph" Date: Saturday, September 6, 2008, 8:41 PM I don't know the advance of the old distributor. I was the only part on the car that was not replaced or rebuilt. I used the Lucas 25D with vacume advance. I replaced it mainly because I thought the advance was questionable. jg -----Original Message----- From: rob [mailto:19to1tr6 at comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 5:50 PM To: Jim Gray Subject: Re: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I don't think my system is the same as yours because it advances 1 deg for each 100 rpm? it ramps up from 19 deg advanced to 30 deg? advance? up to 3000 rpm from there it runs up to 35deg total advance. I would not change the jetting if the only thing you changed is the dist. I would try? try reduceing the 27deg mark to around 22 -23 and let the full advance come in around 2800rpm. Do you know the curve of the old dist? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gray To: Friends of triumph Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [Fot] Timing advice clarification I said in my last email that coming off the throttle, I meant getting in the throttle and that's below 2500 RPM. Throttle response is good from 2500 and up. It just barely runs under 2K. Jim G. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 8 15:08:22 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out of Florida last January and missed our February driving school because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from Bill about himself. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcdelux at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:03 2008 From: pcdelux at worldnet.att.net (Bill DeWar) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:41:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <004601c911fb$9bdfd1d0$c7544c0c@user90890nvpgh> Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebrities in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and running awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtown celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsports tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event. Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superb until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but he kept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWar Triumph Rescue -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 15:41:15 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:41:15 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Message-ID: <090820082141.3784.48C59BFB0006232E00000EC82200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "fasttrs" I guess by now most of you know Smokin? Sam so now would be a good time for me to nominate him to our illustrious group. Any seconds? Second. Welcome, Sam, and thanks for the show on Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "fasttrs" Subject: [Fot] Nomination:Sam Halkias Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:36:41 +0000 Size: 690 URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 16:04:08 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:04:08 GMT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: Listers, Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all other TR celebritiesin attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and sounding and runningawesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam packed downtowncelebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA gang and Classic Motorsportstents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer.(Thanks Tim) Classic MotorsportsPub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) They worked hard all event.Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick Stockton's TR4 running superbuntil #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running great,Henry Frye, Randy WilliamsGeorge Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure,Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil leaks all weekend but hekept at it. Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle Jack . Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! Bill DeWarTriumph Rescue ____________________________________________________________ Stop foreclosure. Click here to stay in your home and rebuild credit. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijlzUCSFkZzRegbTBXIJJv3WcNcx57KqUIFrQTHbFd9HLjSfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 16:22:58 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:22:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> References: <4362ae390809071837x19b16d7am1661c4e4c3fbd28@mail.gmail.com><01a801c911b5$1099afb0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809080635k6eb8bcfeu7a39663c188c64af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank You A. a grate fix for the non atendies. Just one ?? Were and when is next years Party rob ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen You ask you shall receive. Over 700 images, but not edited or filtered, I'll do that later. http://www.gt6.ca/glen/08raw/ Happy now :) Video has been captured, but I'll edited them this afternoon while my son naps. Next to dry out the tent and clean the GT6. Thank god I took today off. Enjoy. A. 2008/9/8 Craig Andre its Monday and I'm waiting for the photos Craig Hope you had fun ---- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen Back from the Glen. According to the GPS, I did 480KM in 4:52min with 35 mins for fuel, rest stop and the border crossing. Awesome. GT6 ran well, I'm burnt, tired, but had so much fun. I'll get those photos and video done on Monday. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Mon Sep 8 16:34:52 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:34:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. Greg Solow ----- Original Message ----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks FOT: Thank to the many of you who gave me good advice on pistions after I discovered that I had burned holes in two of them in my TR-4A at the Wine Country Classic. Now as we are rebuilding it was discovered that the crank is cracked and must also be replaced. I am told the options are a used one reground or a new off the shelf billet crank. Thougths and advice. Hope everyone at the Glen had a good time. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.19/1659 - Release Date: 9/8/2008 7:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 17:40:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 18:40:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20080908.180408.1084.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> What a hoot! I had a great time. Peyote stayed together, didn't get hit by anyone and didn't hit anyone. As usual a fine collection of great FOT people, though I missed all the folks that didn't make it. SVRA put me in group four, which made for a bit of trepidation--I really wasn't interested in getting run over by a Corvette again--or a Lister or something else massive. My times didn't seem all that hot, I felt like I was leaving a second or so in too many corners. I think my driving kind of sucked. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought I was turning something less than 2:20 last time I was here, but we all know what my memory is like. Still, Peyote ran flawlessly all week, even though it's driver might have let it down a little. I enjoyed the re-enactment ride as usual, especially with all the triumphs in town. the organizers decided Peyote wasn't a Triumph and didn't let me run with them, but no matter--a fun ride. Only problem was ground clearance. I left one of my swaybar rod mounts somewhere-- probably on the railroad tracks. We had to cobble one up at the track. Garmey didn't leave me with much hope for a win in group four. He disappeared in the qualifying race while I was trying to get by a couple of corvettes and a Lotus 15. I missed a shift on the start and wound up in tenth or so at the first corner. Managed to get up to fourth pretty quickly, and finally there was only one corvette in front of me but no TR250K to be seen. I got past the 'vette and started putting in some clean laps and finally spotted Garmey, who was picking daisies or writing his autobiography--cruising around saving the car. When I got close enough to be in his mirrors he started spooling up again, and I got some bad breaks in traffic, but I was reasonably close at the end. The timesheets showed the real story though--he had nearly a second on my best lap. If he wasn't snoozing I never would have seen him. Sunday's race I got a good start and chased tony hard for a little while, but he steadily pulled away and I finally lost contact. i decided to save the car and cruised until I saw cars in my mirrors, then I picked it back up and finished second. The track is fun, but I would have liked having someone to dice with. Unfortunately the closest car was a vette and I don't have a great history with those at Watkins Glen, so I decided not to wait for him. Finished second. The Triumph race was right after Group 4, so Tony and I pulled into the entry for the hot pits and Darrell refueled us. I got to my spot (about sixth or seventh I think) at the three minute mark. I got a decent start but the pack going into turn one was five across, mostly snarling TR6's with Dick Stockton's TR4 and Garmey in the TR250K in the mix. I held back a little but got a good run up to the bus stop and stayed in position despite a lot of TR4's and 3's on my ass. Going into the boot I saw Dick's TR4 going back through the pack and looked forward to dicing with him. I moved up behind him just as his engine went BANG and oiled my front wheels nicely. I swung out past him and almost spun, then nearly lost it again in the turn after the boot, tip- toed around for a lap with Henry Frye, George Wright and Randy Williams all threatening to pass. Then I finally got the front end working again and pulled out some daylight. By this time I had lost contact with the TR6 group, and couldn't see much possibility of catching them, so I backed off a little bit and concentrated on driving all the turns cleanly. A lap or so later there was a loud bang from the rear end when I touched the brakes entering turn two and the car lurched a bit. It seemed okay, though it seemed a bit loose. I thought the tires might be going away, so I pressed on. I could see some yellow TR4's behind me when I got to the end of the straights, but there were only two laps to go, so I didn't press too hard. Good thing. It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. Had a great time. Thanks to everyone, great seeing you all. Thanks to SVRA for a great event, kudos to Tim Suddard both for Grassroots' participation in the FOT shenanigans and for getting his TR3 cranking so well. He beat Jeff Snook, and we all know that ain't easy. Congrats to Tony for winning the Kastner Cup, and to Larry Young for winning the Bill Ames Memorial Trophy. And Congrats to all of us for belonging to an organization so chock full of great people. Paraphrasing Groucho, I generally wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me, but FOT is the exception. Disappointing not to get to play with Joe Boruch or Dick Stockton. I think we would have had fun. Joe's TR3 is very reminiscent of my NASCAR TR3, except it's prettier and probably a lot more legal. Joe was turning 2:24's the first qualifying session, I suspect he would have had a lot to show Peyote. The On Sep 8, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Joe Boruch wrote: > I would like to Ditto Bill's thanks to all the organizers and to > SVRA (especially for letting in SCCA cars. Wish I could have > participated Saturday and Sunday, but after evaluating the damage we > decided to cut our losses and pack it in. We could haved spent > hours at the track piecing fiberglass back together and bending > sheet metal, but that would not be fun for me, or anyone else who > offerred to help. Everyone was there to have fun and repairs like > this are work, not fun. Rear fender is pieced back together and > most sheet metal is semi-straight. Spent about 20-hours so far on > repairs. It was fun while it lasted. Joe(B) > > -- "Bill DeWar" wrote: > Listers, > > Great time at the races. Hat's off to Joe Alexander, Kas, and all > other TR celebrities > in attendance. Highlights as I saw it. Tr250 K looking great and > sounding and running > awesome. Peyote resurrected, even faster than before. Absolutely jam > packed downtown > celebration friday evening. Lots of street TR's everywhere. WPTA > gang and Classic Motorsports > tents setup right at last turn. Classic Motorsports free beer. > (Thanks Tim) Classic Motorsports > Pub with bar and dart boards. (BIG Thanks to Gary Hunter and Jim) > They worked hard all event. > Sam Halkias's TR6 harassing Porche's in qualifying race. Dick > Stockton's TR4 running superb > until #3 rod failure in All TR race. All the usual fast TR's running > great,Henry Frye, Randy Williams > George Wright, Jeff Snook, Steve Groh, etc.. > The usual carnage, Joe Boruch TR3 crash, Joe A engine > failure,White #7 TR6 engine failure, > Larry Young, valve issues but made the sunday race. Keith Files, oil > leaks all weekend but he > kept at it. > Last but not least a very nice tribute by Bill Dentinger to Uncle > Jack . > > Joe Alexander THANK YOU!! > > Bill DeWar > Triumph Rescue Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:21:33 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:21:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Wedges In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809080637l7d588b97p61c8c807b91ae4f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just got home this evening. I got lots of pictures of the Group 44 TR8 and Peter Bukowski's TR8 as well as Bill Emery's TR7. Got some video of the 44 car running on Friday when it was in the pits. Unfortunately the engine seized while qualifying, ending the weekend. Too bad because Brian Redman was supposed to drive it in the TRiumph feature. Bob Tullius was supposed to come, but was unable to fly in due to all the hurricanes coming and going. Peter's car worked great all weekend and he was pleased with it's performance. The new engine was just being broken in and Peter didn't want to push it too much. I also got a lot of video including the entire Triumph feature from turn 1. Will try to get it together somehow to show. It is on tape right now so have to burn it to disk first. A terrific weekend with many thanks to Joe and Jan Alexander for all the work they put into the weekend as well as to any who worked on the great T-shirts including Ted handling all the logistics....had a lot of comments from many asking about the t-shirts. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <959C0099-5E17-437E-9D15-C3E61FFC7D53@bnj.com> Message-ID: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 8 19:40:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 20:40:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower > eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in > single shear because it was binding. > > We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a > coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race > and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have > had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool > considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, > four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to > give Sam any trouble. > > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > Paul > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 19:52:13 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:52:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 2359350 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jaxonracing at yahoo.com Mon Sep 8 20:15:06 2008 From: jaxonracing at yahoo.com (Jay Creel) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Was Sam driving his SCCA car? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Babcock To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit.? As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up.?http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 ? On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: ?It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding.?? ? We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube).? I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble.? ? What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't? go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then?when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. ? ? Paul ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 8 20:49:50 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: September 8, 2008 9:41 PM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN seconds to give Sam any trouble. What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. Paul Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com Thu Sep 4 17:20:02 2008 From: ralph at cloverleaf-auto.com (Ralph Steinberg) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 19:20:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VRG Historics at Thunderbolt! Message-ID: <002301c90ee4$c2652270$472f6750$@com> Ok, The Glen is pretty much in the bag by now and you either survived it or you didn't but either way I have a race for you. 3 days of track time, so plenty of time to sort out whatever you broke at the Glen or to just have fun. A brand new track, easy to get to from anywhere and an event run by a club and event chair that know how to put on a race! Mark Palmer and the VRG, yes the same people that put on the races at New Hampshire, PVGPA BeaveRun, Turkey Bowl, the Glen in October. are running an event at the new track in Millville NJ. September 19,20, 21 We will be having vintage racing on the Lightning course, a car show, a vintage war birds fly in, and for those who still feel the need to do something else SCCA will be running on the Thunderbolt track. A great party is planned at the air museum and Mark probably has other things up his sleeve. Come out and join us we will accept any approved racing Triumph, regardless of year, so in other words TR2 through TR8 plus Spitfire, and GT6. Obviously your car must meet the VRG safety standards but we have room and classes for cars that may not normally meet all VRG eligibility rules. (note I said normal eligibility rules not safety) for more info please contact Mark Palmer his contact info and more info on the event is available at www.vrgonline.org Ralph Steinberg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 21:51:41 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:51:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1738.83308.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080909035159.CA4BD1878D3@autox.team.net> I'll second! The Texas (and Oklahoma) bunch is a great group of people, good to add one. - Tony At 04:08 PM 9/8/2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: >Group: I would like to nominate Bill Collins of Euless Texas to our >loose group of TRactor racers. Bill purchased his '64 Spitfire out >of Florida last January and missed our February driving school >because of a bent axle. This weekend, with new axles, he finished >the fall driving school and is on his way towards completing his >required "incident free" weekends towards his VMC license. >May I have a second on the nomination, and perhaps a few words from >Bill about himself. >Thanks - Ed - >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:05:07 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:05:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] GT6 gear ratios In-Reply-To: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> Message-ID: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D At 02:35 PM 9/7/2008, Bobby Whitehead wrote: >Well SHORT weekend at Texas World Speedway with CVAR. Friday was >test and tune day, I'd paid for the weekend... should have learned >my lesson by now... >With the lovely T50 having a 5th gear, on the LONG straight I was >shifting into 5th at the start finish line which carried me well >into turn 1A... lots of top end... >Now with the GT6 4 speed gearbox and my 3.89 locked diff, I'm >redlining (6000 rpm) AT the start finish line and just taking my >foot out of it. >Bob Kramer says build the car for TWS... I'm just wondering if I >should go back to a 3.27 differential. I feel like I have plenty of >horsepower, as I'm running 3rd and 4th gear the whole way around... >If I'm not running terribly hard should I run without a locked >diff? Can the welding of a locked diff be done with the gears in >place or should I remove them? >Or, should I go back to Quantum and go through the expense of an >overdrive GT6 tranny and leave the 3.89? > >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:10:45 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:10:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumph race at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041049.8839F18798B@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 8 22:18:43 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:18:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Mon Sep 8 23:25:47 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 22:25:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Any thoughts on coating a metal gas tank? Message-ID: <000201c9123c$8e799440$b1191718@computer> Does anyone know what is best to coat a metal gas tank with the new blends of gasoline especially in California? Thanks for any thoughts. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3068 bytes Desc: not available URL: From malaboge at aol.com Tue Sep 9 00:26:40 2008 From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:26:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: GT6 carb issues In-Reply-To: <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> References: <20080907153528.CQO86.880538.root@mp13> <20080909040513.0984F1878B1@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE05C26B0CC47-EEC-26BA@webmail-ne02.sysops.aol.com> Gas guzzlin?friends, One of the big issues on many cars that I have found is a fuel system that just doesn't deliver when really needed.? A fuel pressure gauge that reads as close to the carbs as possible will quickly tell the story.? Too many motors are running lean at sustained RPM's.? Every motor that I've dynoed has been overjetted with the RB needles. I'm here at sea level,?and the RB's have way too high a F/A ratio on my motors.? When in doubt (better rich than lean) I've used them until I could actually tune the motor and then it always put out more poop with leaner needles (currently running in the 190 HP range). You say that the float level is at 3/16.? If that is a static measured distance ala factory style measured settings, my limited experience has been that NO static float level is relevant to real world float levels.? In situ inspection of float levels in the jet is the only relevant setting.Basically run the fuel level as high in the jet as is possible without "slosh" out of the jets in corners.? This will take some tuning on your part, but is easy to do?to make both fuel levels the same in each carb.? The other issue is foaming of the fuel and once again leaning out.? Use a 45 DCOE soft mount to mount the SU's to help alleviate this. HS-6's are great carbs and can deliver way more than your 2 liter motor should require Feelin fuelish here ... ????????????????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal On the carb question, in a TR-4 with the HS-6's, we ended up with a .104 jet (drilled out), and RB or RC needles. Those are the richest needles, and we drilled out the jet on top of it. I think in the end we had custom needles that were like the RB at low end and the RC at high end. Dunno how that transfers to the GT-6, tho. - Tony D >One more question.. I have 175 SU's on the GT... at about 4000 rpm >it's leaning out, like hanging there, if I let off the gas a bit it >will catch up. >The carbs were built by Joe Curto with these specs... >HS 1 3/4 >metering RF >Float level 3/16 >Idle screw 1 turn In >Mixture Nut 1 1/2 turns out >Jet 1oo >I emailed Joe once asking if I could purchase some needles that >would let the car run a little richer, I think that is what I need >but don't know for sure... >Probably the wrong weekend for a query, but I know all of us aren't >at the Glen, although I got a really nice tee shirt from the event! > >Kindest regards, >Bobby Whitehead >#53 CVAR Triumph GT6+ >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:46:04 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:46:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> References: <20080909041846.2C9CD1878D8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I run 35 total advance Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 9:19 PM, "Tony Drews" wrote: > As I recall, I've got about 12 degrees at "idle" (a bit over 1000 > rpm), straight line "curve" to 32 degrees at 3000, then slightly > increasing advance as the RPM's increase from there. I think it's > 34 degrees at 6k. Not that far off of your settings. > > - Tony D > > At 05:54 PM 9/6/2008, Jim Gray wrote: >> Greetings all, >> I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 >> distributors out of the Nederlands. >> It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. >> The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 >> degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 >> there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the >> throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to >> 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of >> Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed >> the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I >> know I still have some jetting to get through >> but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the >> distributor went in. >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> Jim Gray >> RMVR # 102 >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 02:48:35 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 01:48:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <613705.93269.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I assume it was--pretty fast Sent from my iPhone On Sep 8, 2008, at 7:15 PM, "Jay Creel" wrote: > Was Sam driving his SCCA car? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Paul MacDonald > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2008 9:40:50 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Yeah, I meant Turn One, not two, and I saw it on the ground the next > lap--thought it was a hose myself. Probably should have gone back > after the races and picked it up, it wasn't an inexpensive bit. > > As I recall there were two TR6's, Tony and the TR250K and me--they > waved me in because I missed the presentation for Group 4.Ttony was > second, Sam was first and Jim stoufer was third. You might be > talking about Tom Kreger--he blew up. http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=951067 > > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). >> >> I finished fifth, turned about a second slower than the group 4 >> race and two seconds slower than the qualifying race, but I would >> have had to pick up two seconds over my best time (2.222--pretty >> cool considering Peyote's number is 222) to be in contention for >> fourth, four seconds to do anything about third or second and TEN >> seconds to give Sam any trouble. >> >> What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He >> didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of >> the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the >> results noticed that one car was missing. >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Tue Sep 9 08:01:04 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 08:06:44 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I meant "on the podium" and in the winner's circle awards cerimony. It looked like the number 3 finisher, Jim Stouffer wasn't recognized as such and the three top cars instead included the 44 car of Bill Warner which finished fourth. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Sent: September 9, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Cc: Bill Babcock; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen On Mon, 8 Sep 2008, Paul MacDonald wrote: > Sam's car was there and the Group 44 car, but Jim Stouffer's TR6 wasn't. I > would have thought it would have been there instead of the 44 car. Sam H. (88) was there as was Jack Madison (33) AND Jim Stouffer (30?). I have pictures of all three on track and in the paddock. > Paul rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:22:15 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:22:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I could get used to this in a hurry! Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his area as well. He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and wheels around quite well. We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at the races. Do I hear a second? Henry Frye #04 TR4 From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:31:57 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:31:57 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <003a01c91291$32448900$0300a8c0@Desktop> I'll second that Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From dtalbott at archrepro.com Tue Sep 9 09:31:19 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:31:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C86@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <000901c91291$1c000110$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Hey, he's an old ski racer to boot. I'll gladly second. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Cc: "Tim Hutchisen" Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: [Fot] Nomination >I would like to nominate Tim Hutchisen for membership to the FOT. Tim > was at Watkins Glen crewing for me this past weekend, many of you met > him. I have never had a dedicated crew person at the track to help me, I > could get used to this in a hurry! > > Tim has been deep into the Triumph scene for years, daily drives a GT6, > last month drove his TR6 1600 miles from Maine to Price Edward Island > and back, and has the required garage full of projects. (last I knew > there is a Spit, a TR3 and a TR7) Tim maintains many of the LBC's in his > area as well. > > He gets his Triumphs on an autocross course whenever possible, and > wheels around quite well. > > We set the hook deep this weekend, we have not seen the last of Tim at > the races. > > Do I hear a second? > > Henry Frye > #04 TR4 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 9 09:38:21 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:38:21 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 09:54:08 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:54:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <090920081554.5592.48C69C200003BB9C000015D82207021553970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Henry Frye" > Do I hear a second? Second. Tim's a good guy, and belongs here. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 09:55:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:55:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some > more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for > the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily > newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice > after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ > finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track > got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a > brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, > no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the > weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has > not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to > take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big > contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do > that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us > Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 11:18:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:18:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Just for Bill Tobin! Message-ID: <4362ae390809091018w281f6eaawc5c75d98b5c7acff@mail.gmail.com> Hey Bill, http://temp.justdrive.ca/P1010334.jpg :) A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 9 12:47:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:47:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Glen Cup presentation Message-ID: <20080909144745.0LTPV.189291.imail@fed1rmwml40> I would appreciate any photos that might be out there on the cup presentation at the Glen last Sunday for use on my web site.. I've got video but no pix. Thanks. -- Never be beaten by equipment From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 9 13:42:57 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:42:57 +0200 Subject: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ?4-5-6? distributor is only for road cars. Several guys over here did use it in races but they all failed .the last one I know from was the last week end. It was replaced by a lumenition and the car ran again. Better you use a simple Pertronix. Cheers Chris ? who has a broken (crank, piston, block, rod) Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Jim Gray Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. September 2008 00:55 An: Friends of triumph Betreff: [Fot] TR4 timing advice needed please Greetings all, I could use a bit advice on timing. I have one of the new 1-2-3 distributors out of the Nederlands. It's an electronic distributor with programmable timing curves. The curve I have at the moment is 10 degrees at 500 - 1000 , 27 degrees at 2000 and 33 degrees at 4500 there are 16 different curve settings available. Coming off the throttle it falls flat on it's face and I have to coax it up to 3000 where it takes off pretty good. I just installed a set of Mikuni HSR 45's and they ran really well before I installed the distributor. I'm not getting any noticable pinging out of it. I know I still have some jetting to get through but as I mentioned, It didn't have this problem before the distributor went in. Any advice would be appreciated. Jim Gray RMVR # 102 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 9 15:16:19 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:16:19 GMT Subject: [Fot] Fw: [CTRiumph.com] TR6 for sale Message-ID: <20080909.171619.13349.0@webmail21.dca.untd.com> This came across on the Connecticut Triumph list. Joe(B) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- This ad is in the Manchester Reminder Community Newspaper.Sept 9, 2008 Triumph TR6 1970 wire wheels, overdrive, many new parts, $3,000, call for details 860-454-7130 FYI, NFI, FredLooking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar For Current Events Calendar visit the CTRiumph WEBPAGE click here: http://www.CTRiumph.com Shortcut to CTRiumph eGroup Home Page click here: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/CTRIUMPH Continue the Legend......... Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Give BackYahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! ToolbarGet it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! GroupsStart a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijmSpS42ziSEsO7yIsx6lUbMJ7XM7xa6K9WwwUmjTPyQX9LoG/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sbracing at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 9 16:01:22 2008 From: sbracing at sbcglobal.net (Steven Benford Jr) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amici, ? I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group.? I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. ? Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area,?and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history.? Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. ? I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see.? But what a great event!? I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up.? The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park.? All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. ? Thumbs Up. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Tue Sep 9 16:04:09 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:04:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > > > > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure > of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe > Alexander. > > > > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared > GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of > your Triumph. > > > > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was > spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But > what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed > up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to > the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I > enjoyed them all. > > > > Thumbs Up. > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 9 16:06:11 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:06:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Pictures Message-ID: Enjoy......caution heavy Wedge content. http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/Watkins%20Glen%202008/ Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1416 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 9 16:13:43 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:13:43 GMT Subject: [Fot] TR3 small mouth vintage race car for sale Message-ID: <200809091613274.SM01788@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, I bought this car?eight years ago and have finally reached the conclusion that I'm not going to get the time to finish building it let alone get the time to race it. This car was originally turned into a vintage race car in the early 80's and raced with VARA on the west coast.? The previous owner stopped racing it around 1996 to do some frame modifications to it.? He pulled the body from the frame and never got any farther than that.? Joe Alexander trailered the car from L.A. to Dallas for me in 2000.? When I asked the PO what I needed to do to get the car running he told me to bolt the body back onto the frame, hook up the wires, add oil and gas and go racing.? Taking the advice from members of the FOT they suggested that I at least pull the pan and check out the main and rod bearings.? So I did and that led to me finding that the oil pump shaft had sheared and gauled the crank.? Rather than go racing I ended up tearing everything down for a rebuild. Fast forward to 2008 and my wife and I are moving from Arkansas to Kentucky and?I just don't have the time, room or energy to deal with putting the car back together.? I came to the conclusion I "might" be able to give it some attention around 2017 :( This car was a rust free california car that was turned into a vintage racer.? It wouldn't take that much work to convert it back to a street car if desired.? I have a LOT of parts to go along with the car.? I have most of what it takes to convert it to a street car and I also have most of what it takes to complete it as a vintage race car.? If interested contact me for specifics. Thanks, Brad 870-329-1335 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westerneagleracing at att.net Tue Sep 9 17:01:09 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:01:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get a chance. Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the engine rebuild is not going well. Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" : -------------- A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. A. 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr Amici, I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also introduced him to Joe Alexander. Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and tell us about of your Triumph. I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. Thumbs Up. Steve _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 9 17:21:49 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:21:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> What an event! The downtown race re-enactment and the spectacular variety of Triumph cars both in the paddock and in the All Triumph race highlighted the weekend for me. I too had a oily experience but mine was on Thursday. First the oil warning light sender began spraying my leg bringing me in early and then in the Triumph practice I lost an oil cooler line connection (due to a bad choice of hose clamps on my part). The resulting smoke had spectators expecting a blown engine but the accumulator saved the day. Among other things this problem allowed me to meet some of the racing legends like Ed Diehl, Hardy Prentice and Tony Adamowicz. These guys and the rest of the Triumph crews were great to talk to, helpful and just an all around treat to have around the paddock. Henry said it well...... > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this ailment. Oh yeah, the track was fast, fun and challenging. Television does not do it justice. Driving Watkins Glen is awesome. We arrived home a 5 PM central time after an uneventful 26 hour jaunt home. The 4 hours Sunday night, and gaining the central time hour made all the difference. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more > than others. > > We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under the tent with the beer. What were > they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I > think. > > We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. > > Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just > knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your > names. Sorry, that's just how it works. > > My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child > for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on > Saturday. > > Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after > the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the > process. > > Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside > line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish > line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA > feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got > a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave > rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no > complaints there. > > There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, > at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends > sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting > wrenches and sockets. > > Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and > getting face time with them was a real treat. > > Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third > time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend > it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! > > Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. > > The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent > of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 > autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine > Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came > out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. > > Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph > folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph > ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. > > So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next > year? > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Tue Sep 9 17:32:47 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:32:47 -0600 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: <20080909.173248.3876.8.wgrosenbach@juno.com> I'll support that nomination. Can't have too many GT-6s. Bill 70 GT-6+ ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mDcGeacbWbWKLIotKkhH53eQPBRgm4hEFO3mLSJGb8fdMQS/ From BillB at bnj.com Tue Sep 9 17:43:30 2008 From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:43:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler In-Reply-To: <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <426946.86296.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4362ae390809091504p1713252bv400b51a7fd862a12@mail.gmail.com> <090920082301.19486.48C70034000CAD7700004C1E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: I'll see what I have when I get home--I'm out paddlig my standup Board right now Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:01 PM, "westerneagleracing at att.net" wrote: > I third, fourth or fifth (what ever we are up to now.) Ed, I am from > York, live in Denver and race in California. E-mail me when you get > a chance. > > Also on another subject does anyone on the west coast have a TR4 > crank. It is getting close to the CSRG Charity Challange and the > engine rebuild is not going well. > Ron Jacobs > Western Eagle Racing > -------------- Original message from "Andre Rousseau" > : -------------- > > A GT6, well that gets my instant vote. > > A. > > 2008/9/9 Steven Benford Jr > Amici, > I would like to nominate Ed Mohler into the FOT Group. I had the > pleasure of meeting Ed at the Glen this weekend, where I also > introduced him to Joe Alexander. > Ed is from the York / Harrisburg Pennsylvania area, and has a race > prepared GT-6 with SCCA history. Ed please introduce yourself and > tell us about of your Triumph. > I didn't get the chance to say hello to everyone this past weekend > as I was spending time with my brother and his family, who I rarely > get to see. But what a great event! I still can't get over all the > Triumphs that showed up. The highlight of the weekend for me was > Friday afternoon listening to the "Legends" speak in the park. All > had great stories to tell and I enjoyed them all. > Thumbs Up. > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chasgee at aol.com Tue Sep 9 19:35:33 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:35:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions.? It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic.? Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well.? I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock.? On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Tue Sep 9 22:50:31 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> Message-ID: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RustyTR4 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 04:48:38 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:48:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - Ed Mohler Message-ID: I would also like to Welcome Ed into our ranks, I have know him for a long time now, and he is a past president of the Central Pennsylvania Triumph Club. Matt.. Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 07:58:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:58:33 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 08:13:35 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <8CAE0FCA71532B9-67C-1356@WEBMAIL-MC12.sysops.aol.com> <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <002301c9134f$6a16e800$1502a8c0@Belkin> I'm in. I'll bring two cars two drivers. m www.headgasket.com Gasket Works USA, LLC 626.358.1616 Voice 626.628.3777 Fax GMT -8 Pacific ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Wed Sep 10 08:17:52 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:17:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: In a message dated 09/10/2008 8:59:58 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > Yeah...often the same with May and September events at ROAD AMERICA. You should bring mufflers, mittens, babushkas, galoshes and all that stuff...just in case. Could be 80 degrees...could be 30 degrees. We'll be there the week end after next for VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. But as a matter of fact, usually we get gorgeous Indian Summer weather. You all should come. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 08:28:50 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:28:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO Message-ID: <20080910143208.EPRE774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Certainly a testament to the safety of modern race cars! You can see the driver WALKING to the ambulance in the 20th pix down. >http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f68/crash-mid-ohio-scca-t2-nissan-61500/ > From greenman62 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 08:49:01 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:49:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <0E595B51-81CE-4954-B876-B3E68C066F02@bnj.com> <003501c91300$c1786370$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: Hey! That's in my new back yard! If you need any help in the lobbying effort... let me know! Greg Greg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: quicktr4 at comcast.net To: Billb at bnj.com; henry at henryfrye.com Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:50:31 -0700 CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen bill the sovren columbia river clasic is labor day not memorial day i know you know that but lets clear it up. the new portland surface is realy nice and would make a greqt venue for next years kas cup. jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:36:09 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:36:09 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 09:47:16 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:47:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: If we decide on Portland, or any other west coast track for that matter I too will help out as much as I can. I ran in the CRC this year for the first time. My first SOVREN event and I had a great time. HMSA won't let me run, but SOVREN had no problems with my car. Tons of track time, but enough free time to check out the 700+ British cars and the swap meet. The event was very low key and the driving was very clean. They decided to eliminate the night time drags this weekend, so that added a lot more paved pit area. There was plenty of open pit space, so adding 30-40 Triumphs shouldn't be a problem IMHO. Jim Norlin -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:59 AM To: Chasgee at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: Bill, Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. Chuck Gee Blacksmith Racing -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Henry Frye Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a lot of Triumph folks attend as well. I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at-track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some more than others. We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I think. We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all your names. Sorry, that's just how it works. My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster child for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily newspaper on Saturday. Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice after the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in the process. Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the inside line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/finish line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the track got a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a brave rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished well, no complaints there. There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the weekend, at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting wrenches and sockets. Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and getting face time with them was a real treat. Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the third time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This weekend it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take his chances! Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big contingent of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his pristine Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that came out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do that. Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us Triumph folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the Triumph ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next year? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _____ Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's ultimate guide to fall TV . Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:53:31 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100853q26684110ha94548a0f49fa504@mail.gmail.com> I got to examine this car in Seattle at a track day once. Saw it on the track first and did not know what it was. Saw it in the pits and took a look. Was blown away when I saw it was a TR6 engine. What really was impressive is that, as I recall, it has a belly pan giving it good airflow underneath. Now that Tony Garmey has won the Kastner Cup, I hope he will join in some of our FOT discussions. He is a member of FOT is he not? If not that is a nomination needing to be made -- and Bill Hart also. He owns that car and I think he drove a Tr powered Lister in the event. 2008/9/10 Shane Ingate > Henry Frye wrote: > > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > > his chances! > > Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K > and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than > Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own > right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of > god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. > > From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. > I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, > and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame > as does Dave Wingett. > > I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have > seen > does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the > aerodynamics > of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the > steel/plastic of > the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and > track > as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, > and thus > more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the > Kastner-Brophy > TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front > suspension of > the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top > of > the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear > end, > but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better > than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. > > In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: > 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; > 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; > 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. > > Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt > to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. > > Shane Ingate > > ------------------------------ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn > Now > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:57:18 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:57:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close ration gears I got from BFE. Chuck The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 10:03:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:03:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> References: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809100857x70643801w68839234f8cb6cf7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <15A98911-1694-427A-ACD7-3CB750264E78@bnj.com> Tony owns Horizon racing in Apple Valley, which is a couple of exits east of Pacific Raceways. I've added him to this email. On Sep 10, 2008, at 8:57 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Bill, I will help any/all I can. I wILL be racing in SOVREN next > year. Where does Tony Garmey/Bill Hart do their work? I am > thinking of having Tony rebuild my A-Type OD/tranny with the close > ration gears I got from BFE. > > Chuck > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 10 10:21:19 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:21:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Followup on that Z-car crash Message-ID: <20080910162122.XUHS6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Here is the in-car video and the drivers write-up of what happened >More pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffdegrieck/MidOhioSept2008 >In-car video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvdaMMrmkF8 > > >Hey all, here are the pics of my crash at mid-o >this wknd. Data said I was going about 95mph >when I went off the back straight before 7. Some >kind of brake failure. Had brakes for a split >second then nothing. Slowed from 130 down to 95. >Someone said I flipped about 9 times. >Cartwheeled over the gravel trap and catapulted over >the tire barrier and then over/through a 18 foot >fence and ended up in the spectator area. >Officials said they have never seen a car go >that far out or seen a crash like that at >mid-ohio. I?m completely fine though, just a >small bump on head. Can't say the same about the >Z. Thanks to everyone out there that helped me >out especially cat killer, ralphy and ed. > >Yes, i had a hans on. That's what probably gave >me the bruise on my forehead. Hans stopped my >helmet but my head smashed into the inside of my >helmet. I had a racetech seat with wings and >head bolsters. Did not have a net on the right. >Had a 5 point harness (2 groin belts combine >into one buckle). Car never really had a hard >impact. Just kept on doing cartwheels over a >long distance dissipating the energy. Looking at >the in car video looks like instinct took over >and i tried turning at the end of the straight >so i started flipping almost before i left the concrete. Should of >gone off straight into china beach and hopefully >had the gravel slow me down b/f hitting tire >wall. Thing that bothers me the most is not >knowing what happened to the brakes. Childs is >conducting a csi investigation. My data showed a >1.2 G slowdown at the 400 mark just like always >but only for a split second. Pedal felt good. >Then my G's gradually dropped to 0. I remember >lifting and pushing in the pedal again and the >data showed my G's came back up to .7 then >quickly dropped back down to 0 before i turned >the car and flipped. I don't ever remember the pedal just hitting the floor. >Brake fluid reservoir was still filled after the >crash. Looking at the in car video, the car >really shimmied at initial braking, almost >looking like the rear brakes were working but >not the front. Only evidence we have so far is >on the front left wheel, the rotor had a weird >discoloration and was completely scoured and gouged as if >the caliper was stuck. I don't see how this >happend though b/f the crash though b/c the car >was pretty dead on straight, not drifting to the >left as you would expect so maybe it somehow got >scoured after the crash. Car does have ABS but I >don't think it ever activated. Braking was >totally fine going down the keyhole just prior. From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 11:06:33 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:06:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [WtW] T2 350Z crash at MO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave, There should be a recall on that car; the airbags did not deploy. ;) Cheers, Shane _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 11:30:41 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Recharge and relax. Click for great vacation packages. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mqDcMS7NUuCMdn3yJjqrgC8DCyDQdTNirvLbGHR9yxoPFzU/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 12:40:40 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.113042.3152.9.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgrosenbach at juno.com Wed Sep 10 15:20:56 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:20:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Message-ID: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No. It was older than that, mid '80s? Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nKHL1QGUohpd0fF0Xn8K9a9nqIBdCIUEMuMqUWBDdxRAEfo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:46:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine top end. On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? > No. It was older than that, mid '80s? > Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation packages! > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 15:46:13 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 16:01:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/ Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From awashatko at wi.rr.com Wed Sep 10 16:45:41 2008 From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:45:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors and Wilwood calipers. Allen On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. > First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's > a 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 > HP? Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an > aero standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have > a fine top end. > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com wrote: > >> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >> Bill >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >> packages! >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Jody & Allen Washatko W51 N664 Highland Drive Cedarburg, WI. 53012 USA tel. (262) 375-6888 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 17:04:13 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/  Next Year ? Message-ID: <380-22008931023413643@M2W044.mail2web.com> thanks to all who participated at the GLEN. it would be great, if all who attended and entered, thrEw out a paragraph on their impressions and experiences. i left well pleased with the outcomes on all fronts. except that pesky valve stuck permanentley in the crown of MIKE BELFER'S piston. (sorry, STEVE) now jan & i are on the atlantic ocean and arriving in NEWFOUNDLAND shortly. UNCLE JACK will be running the TARGA NEWFOUNDLAND in spirit with the outright winner of the 2007 TARGA. Yes, the car will have the UNCLE JACK decal on it. 1969 BMW 2002 I think he will be pleased. jan & joe....five hours from St. John, NL Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:46:13 EDT To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net, andre at gt6.ca, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 10 17:47:44 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:47:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: References: <20080910.152057.3152.11.wgrosenbach@juno.com> <1C7BC1CE-A6D7-4E50-A9B4-659C578F8C23@bnj.com> Message-ID: <48C85CA0.8040603@verizon.net> I keep thinking back many moons ago, about 1977. I saw the TR250K for sale at a swap meet at Los Alamitos (horse) Racetrack for something like $7500. Thing is, I actually had that much in the bank. I also remember passing on some early '60s Ferraris in the $4-5K range. Oh well, that's life in the big city. Cheers, Kurt O. Allen Washatko wrote: > Don't forget the wider track, four wheel disc brakes, slotted rotors > and Wilwood calipers. > > Allen > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> I don't think it's too much of a surprise that the TR250K is fast. >> First, the driver is fast--Tony is an excellent racer. Second, it's a >> 2.5 liter six that's been well massaged. What should that be? 250 HP? >> Then it's frontal area has to be zip, it's a slick car from an aero >> standpoint. Might not optimize downforce, but it ought to have a fine >> top end. >> >> On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:20 PM, wgrosenbach at juno.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>>Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? >>> No. It was older than that, mid '80s? >>> Photos on news pulp leave a bit to be desired, but butter than none. >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Explore all of Europe's beauty! Click now for great vacation >>> packages! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ >> / >> / >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > *Jody & Allen Washatko* > > W51 N664 Highland Drive > > Cedarburg, WI. 53012 > > USA > > > tel. (262) 375-6888 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:00:45 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:00:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <06D21139-39E6-469B-B37C-FDD42A54CA89@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two confused all the time. Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up to the best. SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear yourself and your car out at the CRC. The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. We'd all need sand filters for Willows. The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > Bill, > > Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing > this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. > It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be > fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. > > Chuck Gee > Blacksmith Racing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: Henry Frye > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a > hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland > would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before > this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time > event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races > roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a > lot of Triumph folks attend as well. > > I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I > helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- > track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage > duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Henry Frye wrote: > >> We came, we raced, we marked our territory with our racecars. Some >> more >> than others. >> >> We hung out with TS 1 LO, parked under thI'm thinking it's time for >> the left coast. e tent with the beer. What were >> they thinking. Anything could have happened. Nothing happened... I >> think. >> >> We shared some special moments remembering uncle jack. >> >> Many of us were able to put faces with familiar names. Before I just >> knew the names. Now I have faces in my brain so I will forget all >> your >> names. Sorry, that's just how it works. >> >> My car rose to the occasion. First, somehow it became the poster >> child >> for the event, landing on the front page of the local daily >> newspaper on >> Saturday. >> >> Then it drove into the paddock hemorrhaging oil from every orifice >> after >> the All Triumph Race, but I achieved a few lofty personal goals in >> the >> process. >> >> Then on the start of the Group 3 race my car pulled me down the >> inside >> line to pass a bunch of guys in turn one, then I passed the start/ >> finish >> line in third overall a couple times. Running way up there in a SVRA >> feature race is something I never thought I would do. Then the >> track got >> a little slick from rain and I backed off a bit, I will never be a >> brave >> rain driver. Too much to lose, nothing to gain. Still finished >> well, no >> complaints there. >> >> There was less attrition than I expected over the course of the >> weekend, >> at least until Sunday. It was nice to spend time with our friends >> sitting on chairs with a beer in hand, not under cars requesting >> wrenches and sockets. >> >> Many big names in our sport were there, both past and present, and >> getting face time with them was a real treat. >> >> Congrats to Tony Garmey on winning the Kastner Cup. This was the >> third >> time I have seen the TR250K on track, it was always fast. This >> weekend >> it was amazing. During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has >> not >> seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then >> issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to >> take >> his chances! >> >> Congrats to Larry Young for the Bill Ames Award, well deserved. >> >> The Western PA Triumph gang was there in force, as was a big >> contingent >> of New England Triumph folks. Bob Lang brought Khartu, his TR6 >> autocrosser for the folks to enjoy. Dave Hutchinson drove his >> pristine >> Italia. If I continue to try to mention all the special cars that >> came >> out to support the event I would miss several, I don't want to do >> that. >> >> Many thanks to Jack Woehrle and the rest of SVRA for treating us >> Triumph >> folks better than we deserved. Jack was never too far from the >> Triumph >> ghetto, and made sure we got what we needed. >> >> So, it was a great weekend, sorry if you missed it... Where to next >> year? >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > = > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Looking for spoilers and reviews on the new TV season? Get AOL's > ultimate guide to fall TV. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:14:36 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:14:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910201436.LBLHA.216745.imail@fed1rmwml40> You are wrong in a couple places. The frame is indeed a stock Triumph frame. The suspension parts also so we could try a get the factory to build the car. The body is aluminum not plastic. The track is stock TR-250 / TR-4A. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. >From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -- Never be beaten by equipment From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 18:31:08 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:31:08 EDT Subject: [Fot] Spitfire 1147 (six-port) cylinder head primer, anyone? Message-ID: Can any of you of the early Spitfire persuasion give me a primer on the "good" and/or "better" cylinder heads? I'm really interested to know about casting numbers AND stamped numbers, what the differences are, why the 303014 (casting number, I think) head was once banned in SCCA Production racing but is now allowed again and what's so special about that particular head...in short, any such details you'd care to share. I know someone once told me that one or more of the 948cc heads was good as well; unfortunately, I lost the details on that in a long-ago computer crash. Thanks for any and all insights! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Wed Sep 10 18:34:49 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:34:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080910203449.U1U73.217075.imail@fed1rmwml40> Well again there a little to be corrected. It made just over 200bhp on the engine dyno and had a ton of torque.The windscreen is that shape because we did not have enough money to make our own dsign so we used a glass that Pete had already used in his Samauri Hino special. It fit, okay and looked great. Pete's detail work was always great. I've written tons about this car in all my books. By the way it was on the cover of Competition Press (Aurtoweek) twice twenty years apart. ---- Shane Ingate wrote: ============= Would that have been AutoWeek 10-Feb-03? No photos though. The EscapeRoads article on Pete Brock says: Today, Brock remembers the goals set for building the car began with wanting to prove to the English that he and TR-250K co-creator R.S. ``Kas'' Kastner could design a good-looking, saleable car on the existing Triumph frame and running gear. They also wanted to build a show car to convince the American dealers that such a car was possible (so they could lobby for the design with the Brits). The ultimate goal was to make it a competitive racer in SCCA C production, and finish it in time for Sebring. ``We knew the world's motorsports press would see the car and put further pressure on British Leyland to produce it,'' Brock said. Brock and Kastner traveled from concept to finished design in just six to eight weeks. Getting the nod from Triumph HQ was slow- er, and the boys had only 90 days to build the car for the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1968. Starting with the production Triumph TR-250 components, Brock says, they made a ``direct descendant of the subframe I'd used on the Daytona Cobra'' to mount the 165-hp 2.5-liter six nine and a half inches rearward. Because of the short time, the heat at Sebring, and the complexity of a coupe design, they built a roadster for the race. The design incorporated 1968's knowledge of aerodynamics. The rear-set engine allowed for a low hood, which reduced frontal area. The sweptback windshield would still look fantastic on a modern sports car. The high deck line would provide plenty of space for luggage in the production model and a smoother flow of air. The most intriguing detail, according to Brock: ``The moveable rear spoiler was an attempt to compensate for the lift I knew the body would generate, as the loss of the coupe's upper [body] would increase the aero drag. By making it moveable we could tune the car's downforce for any circuit.'' Climbing into the car today is easy, thanks to the long doors. Your view is dominated by the huge tach showing through the 15-inch steering wheel. The car starts with a loud bark, reminding you this is a race car with not a speck of fat, or sound insulation. The shift lever is perfectly positioned, and the throttle, clutch pedal and steering are all very light, as befits a 2100-pound car. Thanks to the independent rear suspension, traction out of the corners is excellent and the brakes are first-rate. Keep the spoiler fully open, as the rear body can act like a sail and provide some interesting rear-wheel-steer moments at higher speeds. The wheels came off a Chaparral and had to be machined to fit the Triumph hubs. This turned out to be the car's downfall, as Bob Tullius and Jim Dittmore found out on the 49th lap at Sebring when the broken wheel caused a complete suspension failure in the right rear. A lack of spares meant it was finished. The April 1968 cover of Car and Driver trumpeted the TR-250K as the ``American Revolution in Sportscars.'' Inside, Leon Mandel called it ``the salvation of an empire.'' The last Triumph rolled off the assembly line in 1981. This TR-250K exists as a shining example of what could have been." Mmmmm 2100 lbs. Seems a little hefty to me. I reckon that was Brock's psyops on the competition. Shane Ingate in NM To: hottr6 at hotmail.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:30:41 -0600 Subject: Re: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? From: wgrosenbach at juno.com Back when AutoWeek, was a tabloid on news print, they did an Escape Roads on the TR-250K. Had photos of the reworked combustion chambers, and, as I recall, lots of detail. I think my copy is in my basement, somewhere. Probably be some time before I ever get the chance to look for it. Bill ____________________________________________________________ Find precision scales that can weigh anything. Click now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -- Never be beaten by equipment From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 10 19:23:00 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> Message-ID: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:32:23 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:32:23 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video Message-ID: > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:53 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=P1010325 .flv Try this one ...better link. Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul MacDonald [mailto:macdonaldp at rogers.com] > Sent: September 10, 2008 9:32 PM > To: Fot > Subject: FW: Canadian Group 44 Type TR8 Video > > This car was built in 1980s with help and most parts from Group 44 as both > cars were sponsored by BL the GRoup 44 by US BL and the red/white car by > BL Canada. > It was recently restored by the original Canadian owner/driver Peter > Bulkowski. > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view?t=P1010325.flv > 325.flv> > > Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 19:48:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:48:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> References: <20080910200045.HASWZ.216459.imail@fed1rmwml40> <007c01c913ac$ee6a8230$3800000a@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 20:39:46 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:39:46 +0000 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions Message-ID: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n197tr4 at cs.com Wed Sep 10 21:37:01 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:37:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Message-ID: <380-2200894113371175@M2W003.mail2web.com> :-) SECOND! Original Message: ----------------- From: David Talbott dtalbott at archrepro.com Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:23:00 -0700 To: kaskas at cox.net, Chasgee at aol.com, Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for not being there. And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of years ago. So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to lead the charge for PDX 2009? DT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" To: ; "Bill Babcock" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a good time. > ---- Bill Babcock wrote: > > ============= > As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those two > confused all the time. > > Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a > technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was > repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't find > better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. > > PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant > others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with > minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in > the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been > pretty much all over the world and especially all over North America I > assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and > specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or > surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San > Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack up > to the best. > > SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, > but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to > ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty sure I > can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it runs > Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an > inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear > yourself and your car out at the CRC. > > The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue > (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to > the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car shows, > autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that > draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track > autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and > longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. > > I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner > Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities--it's > in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, > which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA > event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. > Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears > (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only > likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. CSRG > is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car > classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to > run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. > We'd all need sand filters for Willows. > > The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. > > It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? > > > On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >> >> Chuck Gee >> Blacksmith Racing >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Babcock >> To: Henry Frye >> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >> >> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >> >> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:39:58 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:39:58 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?Home_from_Watkins_Glen/=A0_Next_Year_=3F?= Message-ID: Yes, all are welcome (doesn't have to be a real Group 44 car), but we already have about ten Group 44 cars committed including Bill Warner's TR8. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 6:02:14 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Tim > ? > What Group 44 cars will be there?.....Any TR8s? > ? > Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 5:46 PM > To: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net; andre at gt6.ca; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Home from Watkins Glen/? Next Year ? > > We are having an east coast party at the Mitty and Group 44 reunion. We also > have the Kastner Brophy GT6 that will face off for the first time against > the Group 44 GT6 since the early seventies! > > Mark your calendars for the first weekend in May. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 21:49:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:49:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Wed Sep 10 21:56:51 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. I'll second that. Paul MacDonald -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:01:54 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:01:54 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. > ? > I'll second that. > ? > Paul MacDonald > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com > Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Cc: kent at auto-restore.com > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, > owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring > the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 > GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a > lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 22:09:39 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 04:09:39 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091120080409.25205.48C89A0300045BE0000062752200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. I've seen his car, and it IS insanely fast. Second. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: GRMTim at aol.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 03:50:56 +0000 Size: 646 URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Wed Sep 10 22:12:18 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:12:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The CRC at Portland in 2009 Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C91@server.Triumph.local> It looks like you have some real momentum going here Bill, it sounds like a good plan to me. Assuming you get SOVERN's blessing, I'd say run with it. Would anybody from the east be interested in going if we figured out some sort of affordable transport for our cars? From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:16:00 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 10 22:26:54 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:26:54 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46CAEDEB-5B6F-4EB6-8A20-FEF448E4534F@bnj.com> I doubt they will have problems. I never have understood what that gutted interior stuff is all about, If your car has 1967 elements then it makes sense to say 1967, but the best guys to ask are John James, Jeff Quick, and Tony Garmey since they have direct knowledge of what SOVREN wants for production cars. On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:39 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Wed Sep 10 22:59:31 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:59:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: I sure like the sound of it as there is NO WAY I could make Portland. It would be as tough as The Glen but the Mitty is more in the ball park!! Besides, why reinvent the wheel? A lot of the leg work has already been done and there did seem to be a question or two about SOVREN. Just my 2 cents and not worth that but I have a much better shot at making the Mitty than something way NE or way NW. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Wed Sep 10 23:43:51 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? References: Message-ID: <003c01c913d1$5f19f8c0$3529e862@quickfure2vk6w> the reason the tr250k is so fast is the talent behind the wheel. tony is a remakable driver and can make an also ran car run upfront. not that the tr250k is an also ran.the standing joke in the pits is if you want to take 5 seconds off your lap times just have tony drive it.the tr250k is a very good car very neat to see it run. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shane Ingate To: Friends of Triumph Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: [Fot] Why is the TR250K so fast? Henry Frye wrote: > During Kas' presentation of the cup, he said he has not > seen the car go as fast since he ran it at Sebring in '68. He then > issued a manufacturers recall notice, but I think Tony is going to take > his chances! Having read all'y'all fun stories about the Glen, the 6-cylindered TR250K and Sam Halkias' car were phenomenally fast, even faster than Bill Warner's and Tom Kreger's cars (which are phenomenal in their own right). I'm going to make the assumption that all the drivers were of god-like ability, and so any differences come down to the cars. From top-secret spy photos, I think I understand why Sam's car is so fast. I suspect that Sam's motor is producing way more HP than anyone else, and I think I have heard that Sam is running a TVR rear tube sub-frame as does Dave Wingett. I don't have as much access to spy photo's of Kas's car, but what I have seen does not explain the success of this car. Yes, I understand that the aerodynamics of the plastic body and weight is a significant advantage over the steel/plastic of the racing TR6s. I assume that the TR250K shares the same wheelbase and track as its production cousin. I am also assuming the TR250K is tube-framed, and thus more rigid. I am presuming that the engine is the same as Kas ran in the Kastner-Brophy TR250/6, so is not offering a HP advantage. Photos show that the front suspension of the TR250K is "stock" TR, except that I cannot find any bracing at the top of the coil tower. I have no idea what sort of voodoo is going on at the rear end, but I suspect that it has unequal-length A-arms. Anything has to be better than the Triumph semi-trailing arms. In summary, I'd say the reasons why the TR250K is so fast is due to: 1) Lightweight aerodynamic body, rigid tube frame; 2) Some unseen voodoo of the "stock" front suspension; 3) Rear suspension voodoo, including rear disk brakes. Of course, what I really need is more spy photos so that I can attempt to copy some of the more esoteric top secret engineering. Shane Ingate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:05:37 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:05:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:07:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:07:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT nomination check on Phil Hyer Message-ID: <8CAE215C6B1E03E-9EC-26D9@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Phil lives in South Fla & recently got an early TR-4 that we are getting ready for him to race. He was nominated to FOT a month or two ago, and is apparently not on the email list. Is there any way to check? His email address is- philhyer at gmail.com Thanks, Glen From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 05:41:31 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:41:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Message-ID: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 06:18:53 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:18:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 06:29:32 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:29:32 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 11 06:35:58 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:35:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> References: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <963DFD36727F4C349E3A3274D766E6A2@richardiipc> Yes, _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Marshall Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:30 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Is the Mitty an HSR event? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:45:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:45:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll give a loud amen on this event. The Group 44 Reunion, the Mitty, the great hospitality of our hosts from Classic Motorsports, the large field of Triumphs in the east and southeast that will attend and, for me at least, being able to hold it to a week away from work makes it a no-brainer. As appealing as the Sovern event sounds, and as much as I would want to be there and race with the left coast TR's, the tow to Portland is a long one and I would have to agree with Gary that I doubt I can make it. I did buy a ticket to the 102 million dollar Tennessee Lottery on the way home from the Glen. Maybe I can fund the trip for everybody. I'd better check those numbers. Bob K. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:06 AM To: GRMTim at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Tim Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? Cary In a message dated 9/10/2008 9:16:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, GRMTim at aol.com writes: Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 06:48:30 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Group44TR7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:19 AM To: lang at isis.mit.edu Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob At the last minute, I did not go to Watkins Glen because of a combination of scheduling business and family medical matters. I am sure Uncle Jack understood me not being there. I hope I have much better luck in fitting this into my business, family, and baseball/softball schedule. At the moment, we have baseball and softball 5 days a week here until late November; then a break until February. If the Group 44 TR7 and I make it to Mitty, it could be the first time ever that Warner's (ex-Kelly) TR7V8 and the other ex-Tullius Group 44 TR8 were ever together at the same event. Not sure of the status of the ex-Tullius Group TR8 which was recently sold. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 4:55:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, lang at isis.mit.edu writes: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > Tim > > Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique > event that truly deserves top billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar. If there > has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of > it. > > My challenge has been and will likely continue to be scheduling. > When is Mitty 2009 ? The First weekend in MAY C ya there! rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 11 07:26:17 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:26:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080911132625.667CF18765E@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 07:27:07 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:27:07 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I?m sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence J Bob **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 07:43:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:43:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand your situation and I hope you don't mind me having fun with it. 12 years ago when I started racing my 3 kids were in band, soccer, football and basketball and finding time to race was a challenge. Now one is married, an in 2 years the other two will be out of college. I'd go back if I could. ________________________________ From: Group44TR7 at aol.com [mailto:Group44TR7 at aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:27 AM To: Kramer, Robert Cc: fot at autox.team.net; trrace at jeack.com.au Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Bob If that be the case, the first in line would be my friend Chris Swingler from Australia who owned the Group 44 TR7 for decades. Of course, when he purchased the car it had been converted over to the all black Playboy TR7 for the race series in Australia. But he was the one who converted it back to the Group 44 TR7 paint, etc. Not sure whether Chris had to return the playboy bunnies that went with the car when he repainted it. Being married with three young kids, the Group 44 paint works better for me than one branishing the playboy logo. I suspect that when my son gets old enough to appreciate such things, he may lobby for it to be repainted back with the bunny logos. Cary In a message dated 9/11/2008 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RKramer at rdoequipment.com writes: Cary, With this broad list I'm sure we can find some body willing to bring the car and race it for you in your absence :) Bob ________________________________ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Thu Sep 11 08:23:19 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:23:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <51083938C4FB4C06B82A9BCA076B8FAD@Dell5100Laptop> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Marshall > Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion > > Is the Mitty an HSR event? For those of us with short memories, we did the Mitty as our feature event a few years ago, I think it was 2005. Yes, it was a an HSR event then, I assume it continues to be an HSR event. HSR does things different than what we are used to seeing here in the east. I know it annoyed some folks, but it didn't stop me from having a great time. But, my vote for our feature event will always be to go to a club event, not a festival event. We tend to get more track time and have the opportunity to enjoy each others company, as opposed to being drawn away with other activities. I am not trying to put down the fantastic weekend we just had at the Glen, and all the efforts of Joe Alexander, Jack Woehrle, Tim Suddard, et al. I had a blast. And the fact we had such little attrition is probably due to the fact we didn't get a lot of track time! So maybe there is something to say about that... But for me, I will always vote for an event that is heavy on track time and light on fluff. No matter how much fun the fluff is, I enjoy driving my car more. To restate the obvious, there is no reason we can't support a west coast event AND an east coast event. The CSC sounds like a hoot. I hope some of us out east can figure out how to get cars there. The Group 44 reunion at the Mitty sounds great as well. I'm sure it will be well attended. I don't have a May event on my race schedule yet, I'd consider it. Road Atlanta is a great track. What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:12 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:12 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-220089411142712558@M2W026.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From n197tr4 at cs.com Thu Sep 11 08:27:17 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:27:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year Message-ID: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> FOT, The Kastner Cup goes West in 2009. The Portland track is an eventuality that has been waiting for the right time. 2009 appears to be the right time. At least to me. It is such a huge country I fail to see why we cant do a great job of more than one FOT event in one year. The Mitty is a candidate, although it doesnt suit everyone. I dont know if i can go, myself, but I would try. The GROUP 44 theme is uniquie and timely, and I would take any opportunity that I can get to see Richard Taylor. Finally, there is also nothing to stop folks from promoting their favorite venue and event. The Glen was huge and and magic and very special, but they dont all have to be that way. Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Original Message: ----------------- From: GRMTim at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:16:00 EDT To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] next year Portland sounds nice and I understand that the event needs to go west some. But Portland is a long, long way from Florida and probably 3/4 of our membership. Please remember, as you discuss next year, that I have formally invited eveyone to the Mitty, am willing to sponsor the event there (or at least an eastcoast version of the event) and have organized a Group 44 Reunion. I have talked to Joe about this as well. I have already gotten commitments from probably ten Group 44 cars, have now added at least one Kastner/Brophy car (and am looking for more) to make the game even more fun and have a beautiful poster in the works. We have invited Bob Tullius to be the grand marshall and Lany has already told us he will come. Several other original Group 44 team members have agreed to come and I will have the Group 44 GT6 there to run for the first time since the early seventies. The beer party is covered, as is the dart tournament. Jack Woerhle was great to us in 05, and we will have our own race again in 08. The date is the first weekend in May. Can I get an amen on this idea? Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 08:47:39 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:47:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From macdonaldp at rogers.com Thu Sep 11 08:53:15 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:53:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Joe Alexander Honorary Newfie Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) From ofbracing at nefcom.net Thu Sep 11 08:54:27 2008 From: ofbracing at nefcom.net (Don Marshall) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C92@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Henry Frye Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:23 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion << What I would like to see is we grow on the big Triumph turnout we had last year at the VDCA event at VIR in April! >> Maybe that needs to be our non-festival east coast target event. It's long on track time, low on cost and just about the best venue anyone could want. It sure was fun last time. Don From andre at gt6.ca Thu Sep 11 08:55:11 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. A. 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 08:58:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:58:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] next year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C066B7A-19EE-42C4-8A1C-98DBF887336C@bnj.com> The gene pool of my family is very shallow, but I assume Newfoundland contains many such genetic mud puddles. On Sep 11, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > > > Joe Alexander > Honorary Newfie > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:13:18 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:13:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:36:01 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:36:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: Thanks Cary, I am trying. The dates are May 1-3 2009 with an optional test day on the last day of April. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 Tim ? ????????Sounds like you have done a lot of work to create a very unique event that truly deserves top?billing in the 2009 Triumph race calendar.?If there has been an organized Group 44 reunion in the last decade, I am not aware of it. ? ? ????????My challenge has been and will likely continue to?be scheduling. When is Mitty 2009 ? ???????????????????????? ? Cary ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:36:28 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:36:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it into the wall trying to get back on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek I liked Schumi but tell me the difference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately >get back in the lead. > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > >Joe C. > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but >this is one that may be worthy... >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:38:02 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:38:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] next year - Group 44 Reunion Message-ID: In a message dated 9/11/08 8:30:53 AM, ofbracing at nefcom.net writes: > Is the Mitty an HSR event?? > Yes. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 09:47:01 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Message-ID: <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> ??? Did you ignore the footage from on-board Lewis that showed Kimi clearly pulling away from him and then Lewis darting up the inside into La Source and outbraking Kimi? Kimi's tires were crap at that point in those conditions. Kimi did not even make an attempt to cover and instead moved way wide while allowed Hamilton to easily take the corner. Kimi may have been hoping his later apex into La Source would give him a better exit and/or see Lewis pushed wide. Neither happened. At 08:40 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I realize that. But it was because Hamilton illegally passed him that put >Kimi in the position to have to force it in order to catch up. > >Joe > >-----Original Message----- >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On >Behalf Of David W. Riddle >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:36 AM >To: fot at autox.Team.Net >Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > >Joe, > >Kimi was accelerating away from Lewis when they crossed start/finish >and Lewis was no where near Kimi when he drove off track and spun it >into the wall trying to get back on. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYe9qexq1v8 > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OpBGoA5ge4 > >I don't know if Kimi hit Lewis going into the chicane but the onboard >from Lewis on the pass into La Source shows a classic outbraking manuver > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHervsQCFek > >I liked Schumi but tell me the difference > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuK9H9wF1c > > >did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off > >enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately > >get back in the lead. > > > >In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi > >to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > > >I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd > >place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > > >Joe C. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > >Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > >To: fot at autox.Team.Net > >Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > > >I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > >catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > >this is one that may be worthy... > >Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > >are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > > >http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 09:48:17 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:50:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:50:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:53:24 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:53:24 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <573F95D8-4890-4CAF-B662-A6D658C61EEE@bnj.com> Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 Of course I'll cover the shipping cost any way you prefer. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:48 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the > remains?? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: > >> It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower >> eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in >> single shear because it was binding. >> >> We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a >> coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 09:57:50 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:57:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> Message-ID: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > >> Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of >> all >> the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position >> to >> Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and >> this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. >> I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a >> dozen >> times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry >> tires >> & wet track conditions. >> Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he >> was >> well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he >> would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone >> off course. >> I also understand that there are some who just don't favor >> Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" >> issues of late... >> I respect your opinion >> Thank you! >> Glen >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Curry >> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net >> Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while >> Hamilton >> did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not >> back >> off >> enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to >> immediately >> get back in the lead. >> >> In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused >> Kimi >> to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. >> >> I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim >> 3rd >> place. That would have been justice in my opinion. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM >> To: fot at autox.Team.Net >> Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably >> didn't >> catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, >> but >> this is one that may be worthy... >> Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. >> There >> are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! >> >> http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:06:55 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:06:55 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the published results that go to the media. Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results noticed that one car was missing. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:39 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:08:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting any "Vettes". Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. My address is: Bill Babcock 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. PMB 377 Portland, OR 97229 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3129431A-3777-4304-B397-04FD029888AB@bnj.com> Hmmm. I think you missed a couple. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:06 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > Just so you all know why some cars weren't in Victory Circle. > > Though we allowed the SCCA cars to participate, they were all in "X" > classes which are NOT FOR TROPHY OR PODIUM and will not show in the > published results that go to the media. > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/8/2008 9:51:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, macdonaldp at rogers.com > writes: > What happened to the other TR6 driver that got third place? He > didn't go to the Victory circle presentation. I took pictures of > the four cars that were there, then when I got a copy of the results > noticed that one car was missing. > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:07:46 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race >and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep >back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in >the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain >the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the >Stewards agree with my assessment. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:09:25 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:09:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:11:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:11:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:08 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > I'll try to get it out this week. No charge. Thanks for not hitting > any "Vettes". > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:54:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > Love to have it, there might be some guts I can use. > > My address is: > > Bill Babcock > 4888 NW Bethany Blvd. > PMB 377 > Portland, OR 97229 > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:18:26 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:18:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> But then F1 (and other road racing) would be more processional than it already is. The curb delineates the racing surface (but is also part of that surface). Hitting or running over the curb (for any reason) should not be cause to lower the car counts during the race. There are already rules to address this. You go over a curb and gain an advantage you give up the position and try again. This weekend I will be instructing at PIR (the one in Phoenix) and as I tell the students in the classroom sessions. Your fees cover the use of the track. The curbs are part of that surface. Use them. At 09:09 AM 9/11/2008, Joe Curry wrote: >I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those >areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within >the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, >people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if >they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > >Joe > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:19:15 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:19:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Message-ID: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner-- very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: > I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake > a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? > > Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The > issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had > not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for > the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. > > Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your > faulty :) memory. > > You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and > Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. > > At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch >> the race >> and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let >> Kimi creep >> back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in >> front in >> the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to >> immediately regain >> the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. >> Clearly the >> Stewards agree with my assessment. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:14 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:24:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those > areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within > the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, > people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if > they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. > > Joe > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM > To: Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the > track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are > not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in > Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > > > Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be > perfectly proper. > > I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he > passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in > agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But > Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could > even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within > the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the > rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has > added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to > the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva > Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged > the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's > fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > > > Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all > the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to > Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and > this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. > I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen > times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry > tires > & wet track conditions. > Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was > well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he > would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone > off course. > I also understand that there are some who just don't favor > Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" > issues of late... > I respect your opinion > Thank you! > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Curry > To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net > Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while > Hamilton > did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not > back > off > enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to > immediately > get back in the lead. > > In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused > Kimi > to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. > > I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim > 3rd > place. That would have been justice in my opinion. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM > To: fot at autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't > catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but > this is one that may be worthy... > Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There > are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! > > http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:24:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:30:22 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:30:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <444B3B83EC7F4BD2BDAB1E56EDC2517A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911163132.JWQS8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Joe, that's just silly. Yes, Hamilton was in front of Kimi coming out of the chicane. Hamilton lifted on the front straight. Kimi pulled his entire car in front of Lewis because he was going faster then Lewis so even if Lewis got back on the gas to accelerate he will still be slower than Kimi. Lewis moved to the right to try and go up the inside into La Source. Kimi moved WAY wide to the left allowing Lewis to easily take the corner entry. Lewis was able to hold on to maintain the pass on corner exit and did not get pushed way wide. What's faster in a race to the next street light? A Yugo with a running start or a Vette sitting still? I like Kimi too as a driver and favor Ferrari over McLaren as a team (although I do miss little Minardi) and it was an exciting race. The stewards were wrong and Kimi only has himself to blame for throwing his car off track two times in the same lap with the second time putting it in the wall. At 09:12 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Look at it this way, Kimi went around the chicane scrubbing off speed while >he did. Hamilton straight-lined it and therefore had more speed built up. >He could lift slightly allowing the front of Kimi's car to pull ahead and >then get right back on the throttle and pull around. This is precisely what >he did. > >Joe From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 10:33:00 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <8CAE2420F7CDE5D-151C-1036@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <385994.21274.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They could add the big spikes to the wheels and allow the other drivers to hurl chains like in Ben Hur --- On Thu, 9/11/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition To: spitlist at cox.net, Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 11:24 AM Heck the curbs (kerbs) are part of the racetrack, albeit lacking some grip (non-existent when wet). If they actually raised them, it's likely gonna tear up a lot more than suspension. Perhaps they should just ban passing in the corners? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:09 pm Subject: RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track.? If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don?t pull it off, they will lose their suspension. ? Joe ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at first and then pulled out a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It was?spectacular?driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering?a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think th ere is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. ?The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and=2 0that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. ?That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Thu Sep 11 10:36:03 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty From: JWoesvra at aol.comDate: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.comCC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack WoehrleSVRA Technical Directorjwoesvra at aol.com803-463-5388FAX 803-794-8747701 Center StreetWest Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:41:50 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:41:50 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> Message-ID: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves. Far be it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. Joe _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWoesvra at aol.com Thu Sep 11 10:44:01 2008 From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:44:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Message-ID: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Thu Sep 11 10:45:58 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com> <93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com> <20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> Message-ID: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 10:53:30 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:53:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: So, lets see if I understand all this. 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you pass a car when doing so. 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the car you passed get back ahead of you. Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight through the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass anyone in the process. Joe -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David W. Riddle Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in front. Lewis did that. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional race like Monaco. At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from gaining >advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind those kerbs >(curbs) is what is needed. > >Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 11 11:00:35 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:00:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> References: <9D4F2871937641B3B9D6953D3DCEC5D7@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAE2470AB41F5D-151C-132F@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> "Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable." Yes! We are in complete agreement on that! The point of the matter is that Hamilton did gain an advantage (intentional or otherwise) in cutting the chicane, & he promptly gave up his position. If the stewards didn't agree that what he did was proper, then they should have taken action at the time. Like the man told me once, we pay for the entire racetrack so we should get our moneys worth, and use all of it, and I have to admit that it feels good to put that inside wheel up on the berm when the weight is transferred to the outside... but I seriously doubt that Hamilton intentionally went up on a WET PAINTED berm, thinking that he was gonna pull off a hero move & make it stick. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree on this one, the world would be very boring if we all thought the same... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:41 pm Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Legal passing is fine, but gaining an advantage by running off the course is what is despicable. ?Yes, I agree that most circuits limit passing in F1 races but that needs to be addressed in the configuration of the circuits themselves.? ? Far be20it for me to determine how to improve the sport but the way I can see it, the stewards got it right in this case. ? Joe ? From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:24 AM To: Joe Curry Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Importance: Low ? Holy smokes, is that ever a lousy idea. F1 has enough trouble having some real racing. Would you really race at a track that penalized your use of the kerbs by ripping off your suspension. Most tracks use FIA kerbing, which is the legitimate name of the alligator bumps. You use them in any turn that benefits from them--even at the club level. Walls, Armco, and overly aggressive curbs eliminate passing opportunities. Racing is passing.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:09 AM, Joe Curry wrote: I?think?that?the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in?those areas because?they are supposed?to be?there?to keep?the cars within?the confines of?the?track.? If?they raised?the level of?the kerbs, people would not?be so aggressive in?trying?to pass knowing?that?if?they don?t?pull itA 0off,?they will lose?their suspension. ? Joe ? From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]?On Behalf Of?Bill Babcock Sent:?Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To:?Bill Babcock Cc:?fot at autox.Team.Net;?fubog1 at aol.com Subject:?Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition ? Incidentally, I don't?think Kimi was wrong?to shove?Hamilton?off?the?track in?the chicane either. In a competition at?that?level you are not?owed racing room, you have?to?take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes?Hamilton?would have lost?his right?front?wheel. ? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great?race,?torturous ending. I also consider?Hamilton's moves?to be perfectly proper. ? I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great?driver, I was cheering him on while he passed?Hamilton?at?first?and?then pulled out?a lead, ?and I was in agony when he first?lost?the lead and?then hit ?the wall. But?Hamilton's pass was?squeaky?clean. I can't?see how?the FIA could even countenance a penalty. ?It?was?spectacular?driving, well within?the cut?and?thrust?of competition and in full compliance with?the rules of surrendering?a gain made off?track. I believe?the FIA has added an element?of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness?to?the entire F1 scene. I don't?care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but?his leadership of?the FIA has damaged?the sport?by moving victory from?the driver's seat?to?the steward's fat?ass. For?that?I'd support?giving him?the boot.? ? On Sep 11, 2008, at?8:13 AM,?fubog1 at aol.com?wrote: Well certainly?there are?those who hold?that?opinion, not?least?of all? the FIA... but...?the facts remain?that?he DID give up?the position?to? Kimi, I don't?think?there is a specified distance for?the lead, and? this was confirmed with both?the?team & race officials at?the?time. I watched?the race, and?the replay of?the last?3 laps at?least?a dozen? times, and I can't?see how he put?Kimi out. Also20consider?the dry?tires? & wet?track conditions. Personaly I?thought?that?it?was a fine example of driving since he was? well alongside Kimi when he went?off;?the alternative being?that?he? would surely have?taken both of?them out?of?the race, had he not?gone? off course. I also understand?that?there are some who just?don't?favor? Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of?the politics and "soap opera"? issues of late... I respect?your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry <spitlist at cox.net> To:?fubog1 at aol.com;?fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- ?F1 at?Spa online petition I will NOT sign?that?petition. ?The way I saw?the situation, while? Hamilton did back off a bit?and allow Kimi?to get?back in front, he did not?back? off enough?to give up his inertia and maintained it?long enough?to? immediately get?back in?the lead. In my humble opinion,?the penalty is just. ?His Rookie actions caused? Kimi to crash out?and?that?does nothing?to erase?that?outcome. I would have black flagged?Hamilton?and not?even allowed him?to claim? 3rd0D place. ?That?would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From:?fot-bounces at autox.team.net?[mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of?fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To:?fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at?Spa online petition I realize?that?a lot?of you were busy last?Sunday, and probably didn't catch?the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one?that?may be worthy... Last?night?there were approx 15,000,?this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot?of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock 0D Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot?mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Edito r Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog:?www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ? From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:06:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:06:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is the rule. Everywhere. Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. But that is the rule. On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > So, lets see if I understand all this. > > 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons > 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you > pass a car > when doing so. > 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let the > car you > passed get back ahead of you. > > > Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight > through > the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't pass > anyone > in the process. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of David W. Riddle > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition > > There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner > and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in > front. Lewis did that. > > One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same > chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT > letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. > > A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional > race like Monaco. > > At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from > gaining >> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >> those > kerbs >> (curbs) is what is needed. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 11:13:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:13:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <8B1BFC87-C5BB-4BFB-B125-610CF723D63C@bnj.com> "Advantaged", by the way, also means lap times, so if someone was blowing the chicane every lap to gain time they would be black flagged or penalized. Also, the rules vary, but in most amateur racing if you run two or four wheels off the racing circuit you might be warned once and black flagged the next time. Blowing the chicane is running off the racing circuit. The pro rules are a little different in wording but identical in intent--it's okay to blow a chicane or run off the racing surface as long as you don't gain advantage from it. On Sep 11, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Yup, that is absolutely true. That is NOT an interpretation. That is > the rule. Everywhere. > > Some chicanes used to have gravel traps in them to eliminate that > "benefit" but most have been replaced with pavement to reduce the > yellow flags caused by cars stuck in a dangerous position. If you > blow the chicane you can't rejoin in an advantaged position, and you > have to make sure you rejoin the race safely. In general it's slower > to comply with all that than it is to remain on the racing circuit. > > But that is the rule. > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Joe Curry wrote: > >> So, lets see if I understand all this. >> >> 1. The chicane is there to slow down the cars for safety reasons >> 2. It is a penalty for shortcutting the chicane, but only if you >> pass a car >> when doing so. >> 3. It is OK to shortcut the chicane if you ease up a bit to let >> the car you >> passed get back ahead of you. >> >> >> Seems to me that under that interpretation you could run straight >> through >> the chicane on every lap without a problem as long as you don't >> pass anyone >> in the process. >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of David W. Riddle >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:46 AM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition >> >> There is. They have a rule that if you short cut a chicane/corner >> and gain an advantage you have to let the other car back in >> front. Lewis did that. >> >> One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same >> chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT >> letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. >> >> A "Tire wall" behind the kerbs would make every race a processional >> race like Monaco. >> >> At 09:35 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: >>> Be that as it is, there needs to be something that keeps people from >> gaining >>> advantage by running off the course. Perhaps a tire wall behind >>> those >> kerbs >>> (curbs) is what is needed. >>> >>> Joe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 11 11:36:41 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> We spent Monday in NYC, so just got back to Tulsa last night. We had a wonderful weekend. I had originally planned to fly in and hang out, but at the last minute Tom was available to drive, so we brought our car (#16 yellow TR3). We arrived about 6:00 pm Thursday only to find out we couldn't get into the track due to closed registration. Bob Lang was in a similar predicament. Luckily Jack Woerhle came down to the gate and got us in. Thanks Jack. We missed the Thursday practice, so Tom was already behind the learning curve. On Friday's session, he was not far behind the other SW/FoT, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer. The Friday afternoon reenactment was amazing. We could not believe the number of spectators and the support by the local community. We also had ground clearance issues and the tailpipe got knocked loose behind the header. Saturday morning was wet, but we ran anyway. The car came in with a bad miss. For those who don't want to wade through the details, I'll put the problems and diagnosis down at the bottom. We missed the Saturday afternoon session, so the Triumph feature was only Tom's second time on a dry track. He was doing well at the beginning, and the SW/FoT were running together (Hilyer, Kramer and Young). Tom says we were faster on the straights, but they did better in the turns. Unfortunately, the overdrive went out in the middle of the race. I've now got a 4:55 rear, so the overdrive is essential. Due to the loss of speed on the straights, Tom fell back at that point and was eventually passed by Richard Brown's Spitfire. I think we may have fried the overdrive during the reenactment due to the loose tailpipe. Bill, do you still have those overdrive parts? I may need them. I was watching the race at the toe of the boot. Saw the wonderful three car dice between Frye, Williams and Wright. We saw the spin by Randy Williams and his TR3 sideways in the middle of the track. Then two yellow TR4s went around on each side. It was also great to watch the TR250K - so beautiful and so fast! I was completely overwhelmed during the FoT awards ceremony, when they announced my name for the "Bill Ames, Racing for Life" award. I suppose this has something to do with my being a cancer survivor. I was diagnosed a couple months after our 2006 gathering at Hallett. Fortunately, for multiple myeloma the best treatment center in the world is in Little Rock. After six month long chemo sessions over a one year period the cancer is in complete remission and should remain that way for several years. I would not have made it through this process, if not for the wonderful care by my wife, Sue. Unfortunately, the cancer did a number on my back, so I had to give up driving. Tom has been doing a great job since he took driving duties. He has now gotten married and moved to Albuquerque, making the logistics too difficult, so we are selling our car. I may not be actively racing, but I do plan to stay active with the group, as long as you'll have me. I have never met a better bunch to hang out with. Thank you so much for the award. Larry Young _Saturday Engine Problems:_ First, we discovered a broken rocker pedestal stud. A second one was bent, but the rest of the valve train looked ok. We got that all fixed with the help of spares from Henry Frye and Bob Kramer. Thanks guys. We thought we were home free, but no, the engine was still missing. Discovered no compression on #1. Then, discovered no valve clearance on #1 exhaust (didn't measure the lash, just felt that the rocker was not loose). Reset the lash. Still had a miss. Rocker was still tight, so thought we had no lash. We had about 8 guys hanging around trying to figure out what could be causing this behavior. Is the valve seat going away, causing the valve to recede in the head? Someone noticed that there was very little clearance between the valve retainer and the rocker arm, but we didn't follow up on that. Henry has this really cool bore scope, which seemed to be indicating a problem with the exhaust valve. Tom and I looked at each other, and I was thinking "Oh no. not another Mid-Ohio". We decided to pull the head to check the valve. Couldn't find anything wrong with the valve or valve seat. We were getting a lot of good help and advice from Ed Diehl - how cool is that? Finally, noticed a spot where the rocker had been hitting the spring retainer. Decided that was the smoking gun. A little grinding with the Dremel tool was all that was required. Unfortunately, we went through a lot of work to discover this small problem. We have been chasing a high speed miss (6,000 RPM) for more than a year. We had thought it was fuel, but I believe this clearance issue has been the problem. With all the valve train dynamic calculations I've been doing lately, I should have known there could be enough vibration to cause a problem like this. So, add this to the list of clearances to check. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu Sep 11 12:55:46 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:55:46 GMT Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas.? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 11 12:58:07 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:58:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> References: <200809111255695.SM02588@[166.70.182.40]> Message-ID: You have a 2000 Roadster too? ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas. CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim). (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty. We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster. When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles. What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it. Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck. He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast. Might be worth looking into. Brad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 13:02:41 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:02:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c91440$fd0908e0$b1191718@computer> On the whole, when there are so many occasions that drivers can get off course and gain advantage, it changes the entire dynamics. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:09 AM To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I think that the kerbs (curbs) should be made more penal in those areas because they are supposed to be there to keep the cars within the confines of the track. If they raised the level of the kerbs, people would not be so aggressive in trying to pass knowing that if they don't pull it off, they will lose their suspension. Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:58 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.Team.Net; fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition Incidentally, I don't think Kimi was wrong to shove Hamilton off the track in the chicane either. In a competition at that level you are not owed racing room, you have to take it. If Alonso had been in Kimi's shoes Hamilton would have lost his right front wheel. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: Great race, torturous ending. I also consider Hamilton's moves to be perfectly proper. I AM a Kimi fan, he's a great driver, I was cheering him on while he passed Hamilton at first and then pulled out a lead, and I was in agony when he first lost the lead and then hit the wall. But Hamilton's pass was squeaky clean. I can't see how the FIA could even countenance a penalty. It was spectacular driving, well within the cut and thrust of competition and in full compliance with the rules of surrendering a gain made off track. I believe the FIA has added an element of over-regulation and fundamental unfairness to the entire F1 scene. I don't care if Max Mosely dresses up like Eva Braun and screws goats, but his leadership of the FIA has damaged the sport by moving victory from the driver's seat to the steward's fat ass. For that I'd support giving him the boot. On Sep 11, 2008, at 8:13 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: Well certainly there are those who hold that opinion, not least of all the FIA... but... the facts remain that he DID give up the position to Kimi, I don't think there is a specified distance for the lead, and this was confirmed with both the team & race officials at the time. I watched the race, and the replay of the last 3 laps at least a dozen times, and I can't see how he put Kimi out. Also consider the dry tires & wet track conditions. Personaly I thought that it was a fine example of driving since he was well alongside Kimi when he went off; the alternative being that he would surely have taken both of them out of the race, had he not gone off course. I also understand that there are some who just don't favor Hamilton/McClaren, evidenced by some of the politics and "soap opera" issues of late... I respect your opinion Thank you! Glen -----Original Message----- From: Joe Curry To: fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.Team.Net Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I will NOT sign that petition. The way I saw the situation, while Hamilton did back off a bit and allow Kimi to get back in front, he did not back off enough to give up his inertia and maintained it long enough to immediately get back in the lead. In my humble opinion, the penalty is just. His Rookie actions caused Kimi to crash out and that does nothing to erase that outcome. I would have black flagged Hamilton and not even allowed him to claim 3rd place. That would have been justice in my opinion. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:42 AM To: fot at autox.Team.Net Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I realize that a lot of you were busy last Sunday, and probably didn't catch the Spa race, and on-line petitions have questionable value, but this is one that may be worthy... Last night there were approx 15,000, this morning nearly 50,000. There are a lot of pissed off F1 fans! http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 14:34:06 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <317355.46066.qm@web57608.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Thu Sep 11 14:49:05 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:49:05 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling Message-ID: <380-22008941120495675@M2W038.mail2web.com> Actually, that list can change to "had" one of each Triumph model (plus spares of some!). We have been and are divesting before our impending move to Kentucky! The flaming Isetta is ABSOLUTELY going with us. ;) Susan :) PS -- I met Cim the trucker on this end of the trip and dealt with him in person. He knows old cars and was VERY careful with our baby. When he got here, he had a very rare 195X Dodge with original Indy stickers (???), some sort of huge old special Cadillac, and a Bondurant 'vette in his truck, along with our 2000 roadster. He hauls Ferraris and other exotics and knows a lot of people in the car/racing business. I would trust him with any of our fleet. Original Message: ----------------- From: Ernest Husmann ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT) To: brad.kahler at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net, RKramer at rdoequipment.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling It is highly likely that Brad and Susan have one of each Triumph model imported into the States.? Not to mention a vintage Dodge truck, Ampicars,?Air Streams, numerous motor bikes, tractors, other motorized vehicles too numerous to mention, and assorted parts that would take too much band width to list.? I assure you, all are well organized. ? But wait, there's more ... An Isetta with flames! ? And this is only what I have seen. ? Ernie --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kramer, Robert wrote: From: Kramer, Robert Subject: Re: [Fot] Cross country car hauling To: "Brad Kahler" , "fot" Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 1:58 PM You have a 2000 Roadster too? ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brad Kahler Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:56 PM To: fot Subject: [Fot] Cross country car hauling ? Amici, For those of you on the east coast who might want to pool your resources to get your cars hauled to the west coast for the FOT event we found a very good and reliable transporter when we had our 2000 Roadster shipped from Pasadena to Arkansas .? CIM Trucking (pronounced Kim).? (602) 803-0032 He has a 6 car enclosed hard sided car hauler with winch capabilty.? We felt very comfortable through the whole process when he moved our Roadster.? When we decided to make the move from Arkansas to Kentucky I asked Cim what he would charge to haul 6 cars for us from Jefferson AR to Richmond KY and ended up with a price of around $1400 for the 6 cars, granted that was only 650 miles.? What it amounted to is he was willing to "rent" his trailer for a weekend and we had exclusive use of it.? Instead of charging us for each car he ended up charging by the mile for the use of his truck.? He was even willing to let us fill up the various spaces in the trailer with other odds and ends. My guess is a group of you might be able to make similar arrangements with him to haul your cars to and from the east coast.? Might be worth looking into. Brad_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From norlinengineering at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 15:36:33 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:36:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <091120080239.24815.48C884F200036AD9000060EF2207021633970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. Jim -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech inspection? Thanks for the help, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 15:44:35 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:44:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] next year References: <380-22008941114271714@M2W007.mail2web.com> <4362ae390809110755g6f577a49j48241ddd32fa987f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301c91457$986cd7b0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> I have an old Newfie joke about a guy learning to drive, but it's too long for this post. Andrea, thanks for your help at the Glen; a good time was had by all. Bill Tobin Erie, PA PS Lunker, your car is in the SVRA website in the Glen photo section.----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Rousseau" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] next year > I've been explaining to Joe what the "NEWFIE" ceremony entails... > > With some luck he'll be racing around my old play ground. > > A. > > 2008/9/11 Paul MacDonald : > > > > > > Joe Alexander > > Honorary Newfie > > > > > > Does that mean you are now related to Bill Babcock!! (Honorarily) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 16:12:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions In-Reply-To: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> References: <872FAD639DC74D46BC4D38BA849B77A2@TOSHIBALAPTOP> Message-ID: <8A75F118-0A28-44B5-825A-733098C7B1B7@bnj.com> I've never seen them get wrapped around the axle about gutted interiors. They don't generally ban a car, they tell you what you need to change and expect to see some progress towards compliance. The exceptions are replicas and cars that are just too far over the line, like my TR3. You shouldn't have a problem--or rather I should say the new owner shouldn't On Sep 11, 2008, at 2:36 PM, Norlin Engineering wrote: > I just went through the process with SOVREN to run in this year's > CRC. Pretty much painless. I picked the most recent GCR although > like your car mine is not prepared to a specific year's rules. > Mine's current where safety and reliability is concerned, relatively > ancient with regards to appearance, suspension and drivetrain. I've > also got a gutted interior and they didn't say anything about it. > Granted, I did not try to join the organization, and they may be > more picky regarding member's cars that are in the points chase. > > Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:40 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] SOVREN questions > > It is starting to look like T A Moser of E. Olympia, WA is a > legitimate buyer for my TR4. This evening, I am filling out a SOVREN > Car Registration Form. The form asks for "the exact year car is > prepared to". I have the 1962 GCR and the 1967 GCR, and it looks > like my car is a mix of both sets of rules. What do I put in that > space? Also, SOVREN makes a point of stating that "gutted" interiors > are not permitted on Production Cars. My car ran in EP in the mid > 80's, and the interior is gutted (the car also had flared fenders, > but I took those off when I converted the car to vintage. The gutted > interior was never an issue with VSCDA or SVRA. > > Will the new owner have problems getting my car through SOVREN tech > inspection? > > Thanks for the help, > > Irv > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Thu Sep 11 16:43:43 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! ?(in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? ? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 ? In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him.? Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 11 16:43:42 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:43:42 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - I just got home!!! Message-ID: <081301c9145f$d7bd3600$0201a8c0@Bevan> I finally got home today (Thurs) after spending 48 hours in my trailer home trying to work out where I was and the time of day. Flight home to London Heathrow from Boston can best be described as Shake Rattle and Roll. Substantial turbulence most of the way and I had to wait *three hours* to have my in-flight plastic meal as cabin crew had to stay belted as well. Arrival in London in the early hours of Tuesday was just as I expected - dark, overcast and raining - as usual :) But I just want to say one BIG thank you to all you guys and lovely ladies who I met for the first time at The Glen - especially to Joe Alexander (for inviting me there in the first place) and to Bob Lang who took on the practical aspects of actually ensuring I did get there from Boston. Joe, you organised a truly great event, Bob I'm so sorry I fell asleep so soon after leaving the circuit - and stayed asleep for so long! I greatly look forward to seeing as many of you as possible next year when the Charity Drive gets underway and I think I'd quite like to do it in the 250K :) Cheers all, Jonmac Originator of The Triumph Trans-America Charity Drive 2009 www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk An event for full TRIUMPH Enthusiast participation From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 17:04:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:04:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually I believe it was "Hogan's Heroes" Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 11 17:08:23 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:08:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] [SPAM] RE: Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63FACBC3-3B38-4DE3-B88A-D209F7EC192B@bnj.com> You're both right. I was confusing the play/movie Stalag 17 with Hogan's Hero's (which was loosely based on the movie), and Hogan's antics took place in Stalag 13. On Sep 11, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Joe Curry wrote: > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > To: JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > -Ed- > > --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he > pulled off before I could back into him. > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 11 17:09:34 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <091120082309.7003.48C9A52E00068DD000001B5B22230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> -------------- Original message from EDWARD BARNARD : -------------- Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart disease) -Ed- --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock wrote: From: Bill Babcock Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen To: JWoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com wrote: We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, he pulled off before I could back into him. Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Thu Sep 11 17:15:30 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:15:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <036301c91464$493699d0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:14:01 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:14:01 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <091220080014.27125.48C9B449000CE2B8000069F52200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Murphy" I'd like to nominate my son and partner on our 1961 TR4 vintage racer, Ryan Murphy. He's been "involved" with Triumphs since he got his drivers license when he was driving my street '66 TR4A and the frame broke! He and I built the race car and had a lot of fun doing it and are now having even more fun together racing it, when it's running, which this summer it was not. He's been doing most of the driving due to my health issues but hopefully next season that will change and I'll get more seat time and he'll get more "wrenching" time. Can I have a second on this? He's finally getting enough time to read the list and I won't have to forward so much stuff of interest to him!!! I'll second. We need young guys to keep this thing going. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Tim Murphy" Subject: [Fot] Nomination Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:11:08 +0000 Size: 734 URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Thu Sep 11 18:15:21 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:15:21 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Looking For Road America Crew Pass Message-ID: <091220080015.28979.48C9B49900034D38000071332200763704970A9D010507@comcast.net> If you are running the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival and have an available crew pass, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:25:05 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <8DCAAF32-BE21-49B9-9A93-ADA8AFE243DF@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080911202505.R6KKI.295072.imail@fed1rmwml30> Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment From gp89 at charter.net Thu Sep 11 18:47:41 2008 From: gp89 at charter.net (gp89 at charter.net) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:47:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay Message-ID: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 From spitlist at cox.net Thu Sep 11 18:53:33 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:53:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay In-Reply-To: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> References: <20080911204741.M3ASN.17654.root@mp20> Message-ID: That FOT sticker on the boot lid makes it worth at least the $6K buy it now price. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of gp89 at charter.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:48 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Spitfire #89 Yellow/black on ebay There's 2 1/2 days left. Lots of lookers bunches of watchers. Someone will have an awfull big pile of stuff to take home. Ebay item 110287245860 for those interested in a full prep Spitfire with enough spares to build a second. It even has a cool F.O.T. sticker on the deck. Jeff Senty gp89 _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 11 19:38:41 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:38:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination References: Message-ID: Two things. first, Hamilton is okay, I hate say it as I am a Kimi fan, but he tried and did the right thing. Second, the Southern Cal guys have a 2000 mile tow also to go to Portland, but have given it a thumb up. Don't let any of them win on mileage alone. From: GRMTim at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:49 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Cc: kent at auto-restore.com Subject: [Fot] Nomination I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koblinger at verizon.net Thu Sep 11 20:06:57 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:06:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48C9CEC1.3000901@verizon.net> Stalag 13 was Hogan's Heroes. Bob Crane, Werner Klemper, Schultz etc, etc. Stalag 17 was William Holden, Otto Preminger and Peter Graves, a real classic. Kurt O. (who watches waaayyyy too much TV) Joe Curry wrote: > > Actually I believe it was ?Hogan?s Heroes? > > Joe C. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > *On Behalf Of *EDWARD BARNARD > *Sent:* Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:44 PM > *To:* JWoesvra at aol.com; Bill Babcock > *Cc:* fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old > fart disease) > > -Ed- > > --- On *Thu, 9/11/08, Bill Babcock //* wrote: > > From: Bill Babcock > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen > To: JWoesvra at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 12:00 PM > > I know NUSSING! (in my best Shultzy accent, for those few old > enough to remember Stalag Seventeen) > > On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:44 AM, JWoesvra at aol.com > wrote: > > > > We also have the remains of a Corvette grille and some bits of > unrecognizable GRP. I guess you don't know anything about them Bill? > > Jack Woehrle > SVRA Technical Director > jwoesvra at aol.com > 803-463-5388 > FAX 803-794-8747 > 701 Center Street > West Columbia, SC 29169 > > In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:12:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Billb at bnj.com writes: > > I was trying to hit that 555 'vette, but just as I passed him, > he pulled off before I could back into him. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com > . > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From adcronin at ameritech.net Thu Sep 11 20:34:13 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:54:41 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:54:41 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> References: <8CAE21A782FC078-9EC-27E7@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer> <20080911153637.HYLM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <20080911154659.IJNV8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> <8D6EE92634DB4B518519F5A86B504D30@newcomputer> <20080911160912.JEUB8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <491DBBA7-6A1B-423E-91FA-585A9205937E@bnj.com> Message-ID: They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. Cheers Chris Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient of their fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, for that argument to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed Hamilton off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no inertia remaining there) and passes on the other side. There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable. Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 12 03:59:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:59:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition In-Reply-To: References: <30B5705DC8494F1D94892AD018997A77@newcomputer><8CAE2380E2DA908-10C0-C57@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com><6CD4F69E-B2B9-40F1-BC46-BF7670FDA614@bnj.com><93A4B538-8B2A-434D-A6E8-93FE667B82A2@bnj.com><20080911161829.JMRM8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net><785EBC1F10754CB1885E35A3552636C2@newcomputer> <20080911164556.NQND774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: I don't agree with you on that video. Schumi was in front so he didn't gain an advantage of position against De La Rosa. So the positions remain the same as before. One of the videos I sent early showed Shumi shortcutting that same chicane in 2006 in a battle with De La Rosa in the McLaren and NOT letting De La Rose in front. No penalty to Shumi. From n197tr4 at cs.com Fri Sep 12 05:55:47 2008 From: n197tr4 at cs.com (n197tr4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Portland...and Newfoundland Message-ID: <380-220089512115547590@M2W018.mail2web.com> Looks like Portland is it for 2009. I hope to be in the area. I think that John Macartney will be somewhere near Portland at that time on his last leg of the Charity Run, but will need to check the calendar. Uncle Jack & I checked it out a few years ago. It is a sure success. Full Sized Cutout of Uncle Jack in Leisure Suit is a brilliant thought. I still have many folks to thank for The Glen, but my email is sporadic...will try to catch up later. Today we will check out the Targa entries and meet the organizer, Scott Giannou, through our hosts. We will be there for the start of the event. Newfoundland is quite wonderful...I have not found a cod, nor a puffin attractive enough to kiss, but it is forthcoming. Joe & Jan Original Message: ----------------- From: Kas Kastner kaskas at cox.net Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:25:05 -0700 To: Billb at bnj.com, fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen Portland is so cool, I can't stand it. ---- Bill Babcock wrote: ============= I am, in fact, quite stupidly willing to take that on if everyone agrees that Portland is the right venue. Stupidly, because having already helped to organize the CRC event I know how much work this can be. Since we are in fact an organization without any rules, I'm puzzled about how this gets decided. I guess we should just ask Joe and Kas. What say you guys? And does anyone have an objection? I think a full-sized cutout of Uncle Jack in his leisure suit is a requirement for the event, and should travel to whatever other venues we subsequently pick for the Kastner Kup. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:23 PM, David Talbott wrote: > I suppose we shouldn't presume Kas's comments to be an official > pronouncement on his part, but it does sound like Portland might > have some potential in a bid to be the host city for the 2009 > Kastner Cup. Since Bill Babcock has an obvious connection with the > local Convention & Visitors Bureau, not to mention that he's > essentially retired, I think nominating him for the position of > Event Chair would make perfect sense to get the ball rolling. This > is a crucial role, especially if one is to believe that Joe > Alexander will be declining such opportunities for a while - or so I > thought I heard Jan to suggest last Sunday at the Glen. > > Of course, I'd be delighted to assist Bill in any way I can; however > I may need all the time I can muster just to make sure I have a car > finished for the event. Given that the track is all of a 7 minute > tow from my shop, I'm thinking I wouldn't have too many excuses for > not being there. > > And unlike the Glen, the prospects for hurricane-induced weather > events are pretty slim in September for this area, in fact it would > be tough to pick a better time of the year to be in the NW. Now > that I think about it, the picture of Uncle Jack in his polyester > leisure suit that someone posted a few weeks back was taken at a > balmy Saturday night party at the September CRC event a couple of > years ago. > > So what say, do I hear a second for my nomination of Billy B. to > lead the charge for PDX 2009? > > DT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kas Kastner" > To: ; "Bill Babcock" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen > > >> Portland is a great city, great track an a neat place to have a >> good time. >> ---- Bill Babcock wrote: >> >> ============= >> As Jeff pointed out, it's Labor Day, not Memorial day. I get those >> two >> confused all the time. >> >> Portland International Raceway is an interesting track from a >> technical standpoint, and the CRC is a good race. The track was >> repaved last year and some corners were changed a bit. You won't >> find >> better pavement anywhere. It's easy to run large-scale races there. >> >> PIR is right on the MAX line (rapid transit trains), so significant >> others are not stuck at the track--they can go into Portland with >> minimal effort, and Portland is one of the most accessible cities in >> the US. Very compact--you can walk anywhere in downtown. Having been >> pretty much all over the world and especially all over North >> America I >> assert that Portland has restaurants, street food, taverns and >> specialty food (like artiisan bread, great bakeries, etc) to rival or >> surpass any city, including places like Paris, New York City and San >> Francisco. You simply can't find better beer, and our Pinot's stack >> up >> to the best. >> >> SOVREN is very strict about racing classifications for it's members, >> but more flexible for outsiders. I'm sure I can work with them to >> ensure that anyone that wants to come can race. I'm also pretty >> sure I >> can get an all-triumph race. The CRC has plenty of track time--it >> runs >> Friday through Monday with Thursday usually available as an >> inexpensive test and tune day through the Lotus Club. You can wear >> yourself and your car out at the CRC. >> >> The All British Field Meet runs the same weekend in the same venue >> (yes, there are sometimes some space problems but we can overflow to >> the Pro Pits which are nicer for camping anyway). They have car >> shows, >> autojumbles, and a big vendor area. It's a well-attended show that >> draws from car clubs all over the coast. There is a short on-track >> autocross that's kind of a PIA, but I'd like to set up a better and >> longer running autocross in the propit area--we've done that before. >> >> I think PIR is kind of ideal as a west coast venue for the Kastner >> Cup. Seattle (Pacific Raceways) is too far from other facilities-- >> it's >> in Kent, Washington--and the major race is the Northwest Historics, >> which is a pretty crowded event. The Portland Historics is an HMSA >> event, and they're hard to work with on car classifications. >> Thunderhill is a wonderful track, but it's east of nowhere. Sears >> (Infinion) is fabulous and wonderful Sonoma is close by, but the only >> likely event is the CSRG Charity Challenge and it's often filled. >> CSRG >> is an excellent organization, but they might be a bit tough on car >> classification. I'm not sure any of the SCCA cars would be allowed to >> run. Laguna is too restricted--they don't have many dates anymore. >> We'd all need sand filters for Willows. >> >> The only limitation at PIR is noise--you'd all need mufflers. >> >> It's not too early to start planning. How do we get this going? >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Chasgee at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Bill, >>> >>> Funny you should mention those two venues, because I was discussing >>> this with some So Cal brethren and we came to the same conclusions. >>> It is the West coast's turn again and I think Portland would be >>> fantastic. Let me know if I can help organize this. >>> >>> Chuck Gee >>> Blacksmith Racing >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Babcock >>> To: Henry Frye >>> Cc: fot at autox.team.net >>> Sent: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen >>> >>> I'm thinking it's time for the left coast. Maybe Thunderhill? It's a >>> hell of a track, though the surrounding facilities suck. Portland >>> would be great, the Columbia River Classic is the weekend before >>> this SVRA race (Memorial day weekend), and it's a high-track time >>> event. Most folks are sick of racing by the time the Monday races >>> roll around. it also encompasses the All British Field Meet which a >>> lot of Triumph folks attend as well. >>> >>> I know I could get SOVREN to roll out the red carpet for FOT since I >>> helped to give this race a boost a few years ago. The Saturday at- >>> track party is legenday, an opportunity to get out your vintage >>> duds, and I can commit to a pretty cool FOT party at Casa Babcock. > > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:13:51 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:13:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Spa race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2E827414A7E-D60-1101@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> McLaren reportedly has the data to prove that Lewis DID lift, and I doubt that they would present the appeal without being able to prove this fact. The other point is that why did the stewards confirm, not once, but twice, that it was a good move, and then penalize him after the race ended? In any event, it sure will be interesting to see what happens... Glen -----Original Message----- From: MadMarx To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 5:54 am Subject: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition They way I saw it: After short cutting a corner you have to actively let the other pass. Hamilton was ON throttle all the time and Raikonen had to active overtake him which took time and way to La Source. >From my point of view the punishment was okay. If Hamilton ?wouldn?t have shortcut and stayed behind Raikonen then the Ferrari would never had give up lead to the next corner. ? Cheers Chris ? ? Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Bill Babcock Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. September 2008 18:19 An: David W. Riddle Cc: fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] OT- F1 at Spa online petition ? I wouldn't be too happy about having FIA stewards on my side, unless I was the recipient ofA 0their?fines. There just isn't enough differential speed between these cars, especially in that corner, ?for that?argument?to hold water. My hero Kimi squeezed?Hamilton?off the corner--very clear in the video. That's OK, nice tactical move. Hamilton lifts, Kimi goes by, then Hamilton crosses behind him (no?inertia?remaining there) and passes on the other side.? ? There isn't a racing organization in existence that would consistently call that an illegal pass--especially the FIA. It's one of those decisions where the stewards insert their authority into the results. Despicable.? ? Not that I'm passionate about F1 or anything... ? On Sep 11, 2008, at 9:07 AM, David W. Riddle wrote: I watched the race too. ?How does someone have "inertia" to overtake a faster vehicle doesn't that defy the laws of physics? Approaching La Source Kimi had more speed and better position. The issue is not one of inertia but rather the argument that if Lewis had not shortcut the chicane would he have been that close to Kimi for the run to La Source to try and outbrake him. Try watching the videos then you won't have to rely on your faulty :) memory. You may agree with the stewards but three20time world champs Lauda and Stewart don't. ?I bet the FIA overturns the stewards. At 08:51 AM 9/11/2008, you wrote: I didn't ignore it, I didn't even watch it. ?I did however watch the race and recall quite clearly that Hamilton lifted only enough to let Kimi creep back in front of him without giving up the inertia that got him in front in the first place. ?It was that inertia that allowed him to immediately regain the lead and that in my opinion was why the move was illegal. ?Clearly the Stewards agree with my assessment. ? Joe _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ? Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com ? Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal ? Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com 0A blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:17:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:17:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 12 06:33:26 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:33:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CAE2E8B2731A90-D60-1147@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 06:41:04 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:41:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 07:17:25 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen References: Message-ID: <006401c914d9$e6d81770$0300a8c0@Desktop> OUCH ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: jwoesvra at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen We were watching and my wife tapped me on the shoulder and mentioned that she thought there were parts coming off that one car. I informed her that it's OK, that's Bill's car and it's one of the Triumphs, parts are expected to fall off those:) Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: JWoesvra at aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:17 -0400 To: Billb at bnj.com; macdonaldp at rogers.com CC: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkin's Glen The broken shock was turned in at tech. I have it. Do you want the remains?? Jack Woehrle SVRA Technical Director jwoesvra at aol.com 803-463-5388 FAX 803-794-8747 701 Center Street West Columbia, SC 29169 In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:06:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:32 PM, Paul MacDonald wrote: It turns out I lost a shock: GONE. All that's left is the lower eye. No idea what happened except we had to remount the shock in single shear because it was binding. We saw the shock drop off the car on corner one, it looked like a coolant hose from where I was in the grandstand (black tube). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 07:47:29 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:47:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks In-Reply-To: <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> References: <090720081954.8663.48C4318E000660CB000021D722230647029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <002d01c91203$1cc600b0$6401a8c0@TER2> Message-ID: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: > A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and > ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at > power outputs of up to 165 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 > rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over > 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 07:59:42 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkin's Glen In-Reply-To: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <578648.59496.qm@web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: > Bill: I believe it was Stalag 13; but I could be mistaken. OFD (old fart > disease) There was a Schultz character in both. Stalag 13 was the funny one. Stalag 17 was a bit more scary... Great movie, but not uplifting in any sense, IMHO. If I recall correctly, the Schulz in Stalag 17 was sort of pushover / winpy guy whereas John Banner in Hogan was a pushover, but more of a teddy bear character. > -Ed- regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 08:03:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8CAE2EBF478BA39-D60-12BC@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <707469.37239.qm@web81205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> BFE supplies the correct plugs to replace them. I have gotten them from Ken before after the originals were lost in vatting. - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: From: fubog1 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) To: RKramer at rdoequipment.com, adcronin at ameritech.net, triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 7:41 AM I wasn't aware of that, could very well be true, thanks for the info! On an engine that's going to be torn down on a regular basis, I would still consider using AN pipe plugs because they are a lot easier to remove & replace ie they don't have to be drilled out, and that reduces the risk of swarf getting trapped in the oil passages. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kramer, Robert To: fubog1 at aol.com ; adcronin at ameritech.net ; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 8:33 am Subject: RE: [Fot] (no subject) So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? They reproduced them for a while. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:18 AM To: adcronin at ameritech.net; triumphs at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) You can just drill & tap the block plugs & fit pipe plugs. The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they have been unavailable for a long time. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: A Daniel Cronin To: Triumph List Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:34 pm Subject: [Fot] (no subject) 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head. I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret! Any help would be appreciated! Dan C_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 09:06:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:06:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young To: Greg Solow Cc: FOT Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Greg Solow _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 09:08:26 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:08:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080912150826.CROD21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 09:24:59 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <141268.87839.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 2008, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > ? 9/11 Listers: Several days back (while on vacation) there were several submissions on the 2 oil galley plugs in each end of the block and the one in the head.? I am undertaking a full rebuild and upgrading of my motor and would like to know how you guys remove these plugs before I do something I might regret!? Any help would be appreciated! Dan C "The Book" shows the full oiling system schematic. The TRF parts book shows all the plugs - they're pretty easy to find. That said, there are various plugs in the block. Some are pipe thread little plugs at least two are plugs that are threaded into the block and then peened over (or cut flush) and one (in the back of the block) uses a machine thread - it's pretty much a set screw. But a good machine shop should "know what to do". rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cak at dimebank.com Fri Sep 12 09:32:12 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? Message-ID: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 09:51:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:51:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <48CA72F1.5060303@pobox.com> <8CAE30045A45D8C-D60-1E69@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it. On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Two questions actually... > 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on > the piston? This is not good. > 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a > bad thing. > I'm curious as to how this works in service...? > Glen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Young > To: Greg Solow > Cc: FOT > Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks > > > > > > Greg, > > To get a larger radius on the crankpins, do you weld the edges and > then > regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to > reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them > reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser. This is a > cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks. > Others > on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used > spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that > welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding > requires stress relieving. The grinder had a hard time getting it > straight. He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the > oven. > > Larry Young > > > > Greg Solow wrote: > > > > > > A good used crank properly race > prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the > journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 > 5 hp as long as > the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the > connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with > steel billet rods. > > Greg Solow > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 10:21:25 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:21:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? In-Reply-To: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> References: <8DD18A08-A92C-4F6C-AEA6-60BB22F8DF29@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAE30ABD00B0DC-D8-2CA@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> OK I guess that is my question. If the spacers on the pin are locating the rod fore & aft (vs the cheeks), then obviously there are loads going into the piston...? Thanks, Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: fubog1 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks- and another question? It doesn't have to, the spacers just need to keep the rods from moving too far. They can be pretty loose, certainly looser than thrust bearing clearance. Still, I think it would work a lot better to put spacers in the pistons where the movement is relatively slow rocking rather than spinning. That's what we came up with for racing two stokes--no reason why it couldn't work here as well. I discussed that with Uncle Jack, but nothing came of it.? On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:06 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote:Two questions actually... 1) the spacers on the pin... does this not induce side thrust loads on the piston? This is not good. 2) if the BE is narrower, there is excessive cheek clearance. Again, a bad thing. I'm curious as to how this works in service...? Glen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young <cartravel at pobox.com> To: Greg Solow <gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com> Cc: FOT <fot at autox.team.net> Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 9:47 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR Racing cranks Greg, To get a larger radius on the20crankpins, do you weld the edges and then regrind? On my current engine, I welded the edges of the crankpins to reduce their width so they would accommodate chevy rods. I them reground with a larger radius to reduce the stress riser.? This is a cheap approach that addresses both weaknesses, rods and cranks.? Others on the list have used chevy or other commodity rods, but have used spacers at the wrist pin to center the rod. The only problem is that welding puts a lot of stresses in the crank and proper nitriding requires stress relieving.? The grinder had a hard time getting it straight.? He said it was out 0.022 the first time it came out of the oven. Larry Young Greg Solow wrote: ?A good used crank properly race prepared, deep case nitrided and ground with the proper radii on the journals, is very reliable at power outputs of up to 16 5 hp as long as the revs are kept below 6800 rpm. The weak link in bottom end is the connecting rod. For use over 6,000 rpm they need to be replaced with steel billet rods. ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? 0?? Greg Solow ?_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.comblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 12:22:07 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] (no subject) Message-ID: <126040.61209.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And I just got an email from TRF acknowledging they have them in response to my inquiry. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 ----- Original Message ---- From: Randall Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 11:08:26 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] (no subject) > > The original plugs came as a "tootsie roll" stick but they > > have been unavailable for a long time. > So the Roadster Factory no longer has them? Tom Boggiano posted to the Triumphs list just a few days ago that TRF does have them, P/N 1404/3. Randall _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr5racer at btinternet.com Fri Sep 12 13:31:59 2008 From: tr5racer at btinternet.com (JOSEPH HUGHES) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:31:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Fot] No Subject Message-ID: <92806.915.qm@web87114.mail.ird.yahoo.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Fri Sep 12 14:54:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? In-Reply-To: <200809121532.m8CFWCl1014270@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <840252.97305.qm@web81202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looks a bit like the Spitfire based Corsa Spyder www.fiorano.co.uk ? Thanks - Ed - --- On Fri, 9/12/08, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: From: Chris Kantarjiev Subject: [Fot] anyone know this Triumph special? To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 10:32 AM http://picasaweb.google.com/Michael.B.Ashby/CaliformiaMeleeXII?authkey=utraTiNylxE#5244982310223797042 I ran across it last weekend. It was pretty easy to recognize that the running gear and drivetrain are TR6. Truly beautiful workmanship - but I didn't get to chat with the owner other than in traffic, where he said a friend of his built it... Best, chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 12 15:08:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:08:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last Saturday. http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Cheers From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 15:12:41 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:12:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <48CADB49.6020802@141.com> I don't know, if you ask me I think its a gorgeous picture! By the way, is there anything you want besides fenders? How about boot lids and bonnets? Congrats! Brad Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > > Cheers > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 12 15:33:58 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <528D507D69D94E5092A49DF3E776E152@jdnet.deere.com> > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Seems odd too that it's the only photo in the article that doesn't identify owners/drivers. Randall From hakhutch at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 12 15:37:15 2008 From: hakhutch at roadrunner.com (Tim Hutchisen) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <006c01c9151f$b9c16ac0$8af4b24c@UPSTAIRSOFFICE> Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! Hutch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Frye" To: Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:08 PM Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 12 15:55:58 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Henry Frye wrote: > Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture > that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last > Saturday. > > http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C > ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > > With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose > that shot... Kinda hard to believe. Face it, Henry... you want us all to buy a copy of the print. :-) > Cheers rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emanteno at comcast.net Fri Sep 12 16:05:19 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:05:19 +0000 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: <091220082205.23614.48CAE79F0000700100005C3E2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Tim Hutchisen" > Especially considering the subjects! I mean suspects! I agree. The passenger looks especially scary. Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Fri Sep 12 17:47:53 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:47:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! Message-ID: In a message dated 9/12/2008 5:09:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, henry at henryfrye.com writes: With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose that shot... Kinda hard to believe. ==AM== ...and yet, there's something about Michelotti's design of the TR4 that just looks so ... purposeful in racing trim. Great shot, and kudos to the photographer for capturing it! --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Fri Sep 12 18:01:13 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:01:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.loca l> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. - Tony D At 04:08 PM 9/12/2008, Henry Frye wrote: >Please excuse the self indulgence, but here is a link to the picture >that was on the front page of the local Watkins Glen paper on last >Saturday. > >http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=BM&Date=20080905&C >ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=905003&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=3 > >With all the other gorgeous cars down there somebody at the paper chose >that shot... Kinda hard to believe. > >Cheers From cartravel at pobox.com Fri Sep 12 18:30:09 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:30:09 -0500 Subject: [Fot] What were they thinking! In-Reply-To: <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C9E@server.Triumph.local> <20080913000122.72484187878@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <48CB0991.7070001@pobox.com> I agree. Henry you were awsome. Don't sell yourself short. They love yellow. Since I've owned my TR3, it's been on the cover of Victory Lane twice and a major photo in Vintage Motorsports. Tony Drews wrote: > When it's your weekend, it's your weekend. You kicked butt, and got > the newspaper pic besides. Congrats. > > - Tony D > > From brad.kahler at 141.com Fri Sep 12 18:27:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:23 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Towing cam (kinda OT) Message-ID: <48CB08EB.1050400@141.com> We're in the process of having the 454 in our smaller 20' Motorhome rebuilt. We plan on pulling a 31' race car trailer with this Motorhome and I've been trying to figure out what cam would provide the best overall performance for our application. I would like one that has good low end torque up to about 3000 rpm and still be reasonable on fuel economy (of course!). I've talked with several cam manufacturers and that seems to just muddy the waters even more. The heads have 2.02 intake valves and 1.76 exhaust valves. The exhaust manifold ports on the head small at 1.625" in size. I've read and also been told that the smaller exhaust ports will help provide better low end torque so I'm planning on sticking with the heads that we have. I'm considering using the Edelbrock Performer intake manifold but can't seem to find a good solution for a cam. Anyone have any real world experience with a good RV towing cam for the 454 with turbo 400 transmission? Thanks! Brad From kaskas at cox.net Fri Sep 12 18:27:12 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Kastner Cup Message-ID: <20080912202712.BY7F9.261419.imail@fed1rmwml39> In the beginning I made it quite clear that the idea was to have the cup available for everyone at one time or another. First was Mosport, Northern and middle upper USA, second was Buttonwillow, Southern Cal and mid Cal, third was Atlanta Southern USA and others for the East, then to Hallet Oklahoma for the Mid-west contingent, then to Utah for the upper mid-west and far west, now to Watkins Glen for the upper Eastern, so now I think it right to go for the upper West Coast for those people that would like to particpate and have the opprotunity to join a lot of fine racers that have been awarded the cup. -- Never be beaten by equipment From adcronin at ameritech.net Fri Sep 12 19:18:54 2008 From: adcronin at ameritech.net (A Daniel Cronin) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Message-ID: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole.? Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep.? Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire?width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator.? The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width.? It appears as if the fan is pulling?half its?air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening.? It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location?to install the fan. ?Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 12 20:38:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:38:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D8DE33B-0001-4C9D-9AE7-761E57C40461@bnj.com> It doesn't matter too much since the fan is only effective at low speed. It's a very good idea to mount the fan behind the radiator, since installing it in front blocks airflow too much (as I found to my dismay). I wouldn't use the plastic "through the radiator" mounts since they can eventually cause a leak. the plastic can't abrade the metal, but dust that gets between the metal and the plastic can. A lot of the triumphs that exclusively race have no fan, or a small fan to keep the temperature in bounds on the grid. On Sep 12, 2008, at 6:18 PM, A Daniel Cronin wrote: > Listers: > Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 > cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable > speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator > without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" > high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" > and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" > and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock > radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom > 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under > the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" > high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling > half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" > below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of > the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being > forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes > the cooling tasks. > > Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned > at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from > the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think > would be the most desirable location to install the fan. > > Planning & Development Services > A. Daniel Cronin > 248 761-2673 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 12 21:56:36 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:56:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location In-Reply-To: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887315.32390.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69443D6E9556491F9AB0C726A5D483F3@HPPavilion> Daniel, I have a 1,150 CFM fan behind my radiator and it's located near the top of the radiator. I chose that position because the temperature gradient is greater at the top, due to the hot water entering from the top. With a greater temperature differential, more heat is shed from the radiator with every CFM that passes through the radiator. Mounting - I brazed studs to the outside of the radiator. I also brazed a coupling on the front of the radiator, just above the top of the core, for a modern OEM style fan speed switch to control the fan. I put it on the front of the radiator, so it would not be seen. It's easy to change it through the grill opening. Jack 1960 TR3A _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of A Daniel Cronin Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 6:19 PM To: Friends of Triumph; Triumph List Subject: [Fot] Electric Fan Location Listers: Am rebuilding a 55 TR2 and will be installing a Flex a Lite 1050 cfm, 9 amp load, 10 blade, 12" diam. electric fan with variable speed control kit and manual on/off switch on an aluminum radiator without crank hole. Radiator effective area is 11 1/2" wide x 18" high x 2 1/2" deep. Stock Tr2-3b radiators were about 17" x12" x3" and the crank hole was up from the bottom of the fins about 6 1/2" and the stock fan appears to span the entire width of the stock radiator, some 13" diameter, so it is pulling air into the bottom 2/3's of the radiator. The grill opening on the 2 starts just under the crank hole and has an opening at the radiator face of about 11" high and averages 13" in width. It appears as if the fan is pulling half its air from under the front apron lower skirt (the 6 1/2" below the crank hole) and the other half from the lower portion of the grill opening. It then seems that the "ram" effect of air being forced thru the upper 70% of the radiator when under way completes the cooling tasks. Given that the fan I will be using is slim enough to be positioned at any height behind the radiator (puller) without interference from the cross brace connecting the spring towers, where would you think would be the most desirable location to install the fan. Planning & Development Services A. Daniel Cronin 248 761-2673 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:35:58 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:35:58 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Triumphs in the re-enactment race at Watkins Glen Message-ID: <000f01c915be$cd7e3620$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Shortcut to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkrJKiayCvk Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: watch.url Type: application/octet-stream Size: 94 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 13 10:47:36 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: 1220862277463_f Message-ID: <001501c915c0$6db82aa0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> I found this picture on this site: http://www.fotolog.com/digikat/archive Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1220862277463_f.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 50589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Sat Sep 13 16:21:50 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Emailing: Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival In-Reply-To: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <000701c915bc$c2b449c0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CC3CFE.9060705@pobox.com> See, there we are. I told you they love yellow. BOB KRAMER wrote: > Have you seen this? > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: > http://www.the-leader.com/news/x802007256/Watkins-Glen-celebrates-classics-at-Grand-Prix-Festival > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 16:33:18 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:33:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison Message-ID: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 17:18:45 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:18:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <20080913183318.NHSDO.265888.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From kaskas at cox.net Sat Sep 13 18:08:31 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:08:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> Message-ID: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> In this case I think that the Shell people put in the full 10% while the other laces say "up to 10%". Less BTU's in alcohol than in gas by a bunch and also corn apparently is cheaper than oil. Wow, what a discovery. I know this, I like 28 mpg better than 24. ---- "Clark W. Nicholls" wrote: ============= We've had 10% ethanol in all our gasoline here in Massachusetts for years now, before that MTBE (so the ground water could be poisoned by government mandate). Years ago I drove my Camaro to Vermont (for the Miller auction of a hoard of Stutz cars) using most of a full tank of gasoline. I'd fill up there and drive home using less of a tank. Vermont at the time was 100% gasoline. I did this 2 days in a row and noticed the same thing, although less difference since I had some VT gasoline still in the tank. I'd hazard a guess there is truth to what you experienced (I recently had a friend from Connecticut tell me some VT stations still have pure gasoline and he is experiencing this in his Honda Fit when he visits his son in Vermont). Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -- Never be beaten by equipment From cwn74 at aol.com Sat Sep 13 20:24:54 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:24:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> References: <235DD5011A54458983FF3521EB3E59AF@semperon3400> <20080913200831.C5E74.266844.imail@fed1rmwml46> Message-ID: Here in Massachusetts it is the law that gasoline must have 10% ethanol as an "oxygenator" or some such word. Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Not just Shell (which I use), all gasoline sold in Massachusetts. I think it is similar in California as our new cars are California spec. I'm not sure if it is statewide in NY or other states, but on the trip to Michigan for the VTR event I believe I always filled up with 10% ethanol. (I think 10% is the limit the fuel system on non-flex-fuel vehicles are supposed to use). http://www.epa.gov/MTBE/ Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 13 21:02:03 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:02:03 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) From britbits at netzero.com Sat Sep 13 21:08:42 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:08:42 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ From lunkercars at earthlink.net Sun Sep 14 01:06:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:06:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Our weekend at the Glen In-Reply-To: <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3C87@server.Triumph.local> <00d701c912d2$d66fc0d0$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <48C95729.2040006@pobox.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Connie, Barley and I still haven't really processed the whole Glen experience yet... probably 'cuz we're not home yet. Thanks everyone for all the great pics and videos that have been posted. As has been said numerous times of the event, the REALLY special part was putting faces and cars to so many FoT names. The road coarse reenactment was truly surreal... the stuff of boyhood dreams to a guy like me. To have a club, a track and a town honor the cars that I happen to be partial to and fortunate enough to own, is a rare alignment of the stars, planets or some-such. A tough act to follow. Thanks so much to Joe, Jack, Tim and Gary and of-coarse Kas along with all the rest who made the event possible. Glad to hear the destination is Portland for next year. Kind of my old stompin' ground. I've never been on the track there but have spectated enough to know it's got to be a fun one. SIR [Pacific?] in Seattle would be great since it's my home town and a track I actually know, but I understand the cluster of such a large event. If it's the weekend before Kastner Cup/Portland I'll likely combine it with that long haul [New Mexico is a long way from anywhere but within reach of most anywhere - put please don't book us a track in Newfoundland Joe]. I kind of figure that if one is in the general neighborhood of a distant place, one ought make the best of it. That theory is why we are now in Brainard Minnesota. After the race we toured up to Niagara Falls with our friends Reno and Claudia who had come for the race [from France - serious Triumph junkies]. We parted ways Tuesday afternoon and headed home. Didn't make it very far that day - I was finally and totally spent. Weeks of 12-14 hour days to allow for time away and getting the car ready after a major freshening, 1900 miles in about 60 hours Abq NM/Glenn NW, a high adrenaline five days at the track and then trying to entertain friends and I was done. Period. Speaking of adrenaline, then there's the story of my shift knob. Sometime on friday or saturday, I came to the realization that a nice gentle up-shift would cost me about 1.5 car-lengths with you guys so enough of that! Well, in sundays feature, I broke the knob clean off... I don't mean another cheapo knob lost it's set screw or anything, but broke the shank of the shift leaver - don't know how many ft/lbs that might take but I did it. I also had a major/minor problem - I was using 2nd to try to get my open diff to hook up a bit coming up the hill [turn? - never did get the names and numbers right]. with the up-shift to third, the knob went a flyin'... I think it hit the dash, bounced odd my knee and disappeared - until the next time I used the brakes. After that it was a game of approaching a corner, looking around the floor to see which petal it was under this time, kinking it out of the way and repeating the process. This little private game went on for three laps. As long as that front straight is, I found that it goes by pretty quick when one is looking, reaching and kicking everywhere trying to get the damn thing to show itself. Going into 1 the only thing I knew is that it wasn't under the brake petal last time i looked. Third time around I spotted the little guy - right next to my right heal - only way to get it was to lift [painful but necessary] and kick it over to the left foot. It worked for an instant but the right foot got back on it before the left could respond and back under the seat it went. Next lap I got it in my field of vision under the clutch petal, worked it back within reach, grabbed it, and just about hurt myself trying to get it wedged between my legs and under the crotch strap. The rest of the race was actually quite enjoyable. Anyway, wednesday morning we were finally putting miles behind us on the way home. Fun and funny how a bit of windshield time can sooth the spirit and give perspective. Around noon I started thing about Brainard. My friend [and new Foter] Bill Swope had told me about and invited us to join them up in Minnesota. 40th anniversary and grand re-opening of a redesign of a very historic old track. $20 entry fee. New to everyone. Almost, sort of, kind of, on the way home. I had been thinking of it and talking about it since before we headed east - almost in jest. By wednesday afternoon I was thinking seriously enough to say it out loud to Connie [I knew Barley was already in favor]. "If it's really on , and if you're up for it, and IF I can get to the bottom of that high speed vibration, and if we turn right soon, we could make it. 30 minutes later we had a plan - press thru to Indianapolis and get a room. Pull the drive shaft and see if I can get to the root of the problem. An easy fix for the vibration was the determining factor. The next morning, a couple calls lead me to Indianapolis Rack & Axle [great guys, GREAT service]. Pulled the driveshaft in the hotel parking lot, and took it 10 miles up the road for a exam. Sure enough, it was .030+" out. Likely from when Connie parked it on a K barrier last year but undiscovered since the car has never been on any track nearly as fast as Watkins Glen - the vib could only be felt at well over 100mph when it would come in with a vengeance [more on that later]. Straight and true driveshaft in hand in under 45 mins., and we were headed north. Yeah, Indianapolis Indiana is not the shortest route from New York to Minnesota but still in the neighborhood as I like to say. 13 1/2 hours later we were again fried, but in Brainard. Friday had a couple practice sessions that were the first laps ever on the reconfigured track. They've taken the old 9 turn, 3.5 mile, flat-out track and turned it into a 13 turn 2.5 mile circuit with some fun technical stuff. When the Glen planning first started to get momentum last winter, I sent out a message saying I was in if someone would promise rain. Joe replied saying "it always rains in Watkins Glen in September" and I knew I was in. Some say "be careful what you ask for". I'm learning to be very, very specific. When I mentioned my rain wish in the our paddock last weekend, I almost got lynched. And I have to admit that I wasn't being specific enough. We got It, but Saturday practice and the last race Sunday was not what I had in mind and it didn't help anyone. Today was a whole different story. Gloomy, foggy and cold this morning - no point in going out in my view - lots of drivers that had just gotten there this morning who had therefor never been on THIS track and lost of potential for mayhem. The very first race on this new track was our vintage group at 1:30. By 11:00 the foggy mist rolled in. By 12:00 it turned to definite rain. By 12:15 I put on those brand new, 8 year old, borrowed, slightly treaded Kuhmo Victoracers on steel wheels who's only scrubbing was the drive from the track to the village and back last weekend. By 1:00 it way raining buckets and though giddy, I was also getting a bit nervous. Unusual... what if my huff and puff was all bluff? After all, I've never actually raced in the rain [not much opportunity in the desert], I just know that I kind'a like slippin' and sliden' and have always thought of slippery as the great equalizer. Damned if I didn't win the thing!!! In all honesty, only because the GT350 with the bubblegum rain tires broke a few laps from the end, but hey, you gotta finish to win. Getting by the crazy-fast Mini - THE car for the conditions was the part that really blew my mind. Didn't know I had won until I got in. Couldn't figure out how the Mustang got out of my sight, but the visibility was that bad... I had no idea he had come in, only knew he was gone. Pictures of us coming into the new turn 12 [the toughest and tightest turn on the track show a literal bow wake ahead of the cars. WHAT FUN!!! In the second race it dried out unexpectedly fast and the under-inflated, lousy hard tires weren't quite quite up to the task and I was happy to get a third behind the deserving crazy-fast mini and a very well driven 'vette. If tomorrow is dry as forecast, I'll likely get my tractor powered butt handed to me on a plate. Todays dose of adrenaline is nearing it's end, getting low on beer and 8:00 am drivers meeting, so goodnight and have a pleasant tomorrow. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From bkolnz at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 14 06:37:39 2008 From: bkolnz at sbcglobal.net (Bill Collins) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:37:39 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. Message-ID: In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Group44TR7 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 07:20:24 2008 From: Group44TR7 at aol.com (Group44TR7 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:20:24 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: Kas The addition of ethanol compromises vehicle mileage, just as you have experienced. From a consumer point of view, the consumer pays more $/BTU for ethanol gasoline than $/BTU for gasoline without ethanol. From a political point of view, we have happy corn farmers. As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Cary In a message dated 9/13/2008 3:33:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: I've driven about 5500 miles so far in the past couple weeks and tried various brands. I noted this: when the alcohol is added from a SHELL station the mileage drops between 2-4 miles per gallon. Other brands of all kinds that say they add the alcohol make almost no difference. Anybody ready to comment of this? -- Never be beaten by equipment _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdporter at dfn.com Sun Sep 14 07:27:24 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:27:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 09:38:58 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:00:29 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:00:29 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:14:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> Message-ID: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > president > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > actually worse for the environment. > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > of > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > cars. > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > emissions at all. > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > so > it does no good at all. > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 09:25:11 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:23:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:23:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> Message-ID: <583B9A24-28E0-4FB5-A53B-D0B6A2EBEBE8@bnj.com> Incidentally, with corn futures at $5.60 a bushel and Soybeans at $12.00 farmers that grow any potential fuel crop are pretty delirious these days, as are farmers in general, since using corn for fuel and other factors seem to have driven food up enough to compete with gasoline as an expense. I remember when farmers were politicking like mad to get the government to invest in ethanol production. Now they're being a lot more quiet since the "green" aspect of alternate fuel production is being given the scrutiny it always deserved. As usual, politically motivated "science" sends us down paths that don't deliver real change. Just politics. I can't help but view people who jump on bandwagons as suckers. Assuming climate issues and pollution get worse, I wonder if anyone will remember that the Kyoto accord enabled BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) to capture the lion's share of worldwide manufacturing growth in extremely unregulated environments. Anyone who thinks it was labor costs alone needs to visit a lights out machining facility. Uneconomical and going out of business in the US, but not in China. I wonder why that is? On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: >> >> As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of >> the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy >> per gallon as gasoline and diesel. >> > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:24:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:24:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really > well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in > Congress > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which > lobbying group > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> president >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with >> the MBTE >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst >> equipped >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions >> were >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted >> on the >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Randall >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >>> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, >> it does >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the >> mixture >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, >> which >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures >> that >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only >> takes one >> of >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> cars. >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but >> you'd be >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And >> remember, >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> emissions at all. >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the >> fuel, >> so >> it does no good at all. >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. >> Click >> Here. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:25:54 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:25:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol eventually and they cycle continues. Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen content.....fertilizer. Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry comfortable suspension. Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gasket.works at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 10:35:28 2008 From: gasket.works at verizon.net (Gasket Works USA) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:35:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Relative BTU Message-ID: <24349897.12426711221410128226.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> The fuel/oil industry should have a standard that indicates the relative BTU the fuel has. It is not enough to list the octaine. The Ethanol fuel you purchase may fill your tank but, it is a false fill as it empties faster than traditional gasoline. M.N.Dunst Gasket Works USA, LLC gmt-8 Pacific time 626.358.1616 voice 626.628.3777 fax From BillDentin at aol.com Sun Sep 14 10:42:51 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:51 EDT Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... Message-ID: Mordy... Your dissertation is very interesting. Bill (Damdinger) PS...but in a way reminded me about that old Mexican Cat Skin joke. It's an old Wisconsin ice fishing joke, and takes too long to tell, but the punch line was, "The cats'll eat the rats...the rats'll eat the cats, and we'll get the skins." ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 10:53:45 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:53:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <4902445F-7B14-43C3-A2BB-9F371376FA0A@bnj.com> I love the guy, he actually makes sense and has some facts to back up his position. Great job on your goats and fuel. I looked around here for sources of fryer oil to convert, but being Portland, everyone that uses a can of crisco to make some fries has a biofuels guy waiting at their doorstop. Biodiesel runs about a 50 cent premium here, and people buy pretty much all of it they can get. Weird. A few days ago I was driving behind an older Mercedes Diesel that was fogging for bugs and emitting a smell like rancid french fries. Had biodiesel stickers all over the bumper. I thought, "man, there's a guy doing some great marketing for fuel diversification." My friend Cameron Healy also puts his money where his mouth is, driving a diesel newbug, investing in biofuel companies--and I think it's great. Of course he used to own Kettle Chips, so fryer oil was easy to come by. I think whey is a welcome when you're milking 10 goats, but my friend John Karamanos owns Sunshine Dairy, who make cottage cheese by the ton every day. For them, whey is a problem. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Sat Sep 13 19:56:17 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:56:17 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: <003b01c9167e$147804b0$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <007601c9160d$13ddd1e0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 14 11:07:46 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:07:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Whey hey and up she rises... In-Reply-To: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <24848651.12419481221409554201.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <517A9C7A-A81B-4793-A9B9-17144B16D03C@bnj.com> Incidentally, if you really want a headache, try to figure out the price of fuel ethanol. What a convoluted mess that is. The feds supply a nice subsidy, but they pay it to the buyer (the oil companies) and theoretically that gets reflected back to the market price, though how that could happen in a competitive market escapes me. Essentially it LOOKS to me like ethanol is cheaper than finished gasoline if it shows up at the refinery for 2.70 or less. The subsidy looks to be about $. 03 per mixed gallon of fuel or roughly $.30 per gallon of ethanol if it's 10 percent, I think. I need to go ask my economist friend to step me though the math and all the wiggle words. Rack fuel ethanol prices are quoted by state, but there aren't any refineries that I know of in Minnesota. Do they mix the fuel in tanks in each state? or do they really ship it to the refinery? Local mixing makes sense, but I stopped expecting things to make sense a long time ago, especially when government regulation and subsidies get added to the mix. Can't help but think the market would have done all this with much greater efficiency. On Sep 14, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Gasket Works USA wrote: > It is intetersting... My wife has made a buisiness plan for a micro > dairy (goat milk). The current trend to develop locally grown food > stuffs is becoming more intriguing for a host of reasons. There are > many articles in the NY times, WSJ and such. Between our neighbor > and us we have about 10 goats milked twice daily. Our good > producers make 8+ lbs of milk a day. Most make 1/2 that. The > assorted milk products include yogurt, Feta and hard cheese > (although these are much harder to make). Many of our friends trade > home grown produce for whole raw milk, or pasturized milk. > > So, sky photons come down and allow the the chloroplasts to > convert some green house Gases (CO2) to sugars and cellulose. the > Goats eat the converted photons and make milk. The milk is then > converted to Feta and the byproduct is fermented to make alcohol > eventually and they cycle continues. > > Oh, The whey protein is not bad stuff it may look greenish but, > tastes good. Organic growers like this stuff for its nitrogen > content.....fertilizer. > > Proud owner of 1979 Peugeot diesel that can run on 100 biodiesel > from Waste Taco VEgie oil. 40mpg easy. > I put on extra large rolling radius tires to keep the Rpms low and > short shift. Slow but, oh so much fun. Oh, and btw.. verrry > comfortable suspension. > > Proud owner of 2008 Honda GX CNG 30-40mpg equiv. ( I wish lived in > UTAh... CNG about .070cents/Gallon Equiv there) > > Pickens maybe biased but, I like him. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rem9 at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 14 11:10:30 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:10:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:21:17 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> Message-ID: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in on the whey cool discussion? Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Moore To: 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of tofu that is likewise utilized. Russ Moore Upstate NY From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that might be an interesting micro-source. On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much energy per gallon as gasoline and diesel. Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of food wastes, such whey from cheese production.... Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Sep 14 11:32:20 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:32:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <007401c9168c$d0830610$71891230$@net> <004d01c9168e$4c959b90$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <48CD4AA4.5040300@141.com> No Whey! BOB KRAMER wrote: > Is anyone else having trouble holding themselves back from wheying in > on the whey cool discussion? > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Russ Moore > *To:* 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com > > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:10 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > Actually, around here there are many farmers who seek out the whey > as a source of protein for their livestock. Especially for sheep > producers. There's also the residue left after the manufacture of > tofu that is likewise utilized. > > > > Russ Moore > > Upstate NY > > > > *From:* fot-bounces at autox.team.net > > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Bill Babcock > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 12:00 PM > *To:* mdporter at dfn.com > *Cc:* Group44TR7 at aol.com ; > fot at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts > > > > Given that most cheese-makers have to pay to dispose of whey, that > might be an interesting micro-source. > > > > > > On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:27 AM, Michael Porter wrote: > > > > Group44TR7 at aol.com wrote: > > > > As energy scientists search for alternative fuels, one of > > the challenges is finding a fuel source that provides as much > energy > > per gallon as gasoline and diesel. > > > > > Butanol. 95% of the fuel value of gasoline. More octane. Capable of > being made with a two-stage fermentation process from all sorts of > food > wastes, such whey from cheese production.... > > > > Cheers. > > -- > > > Michael Porter > Roswell, NM > > > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking > distance.... > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Bill Babcock > > Babcock & Jenkins > > Billb at bnj.com > > 503.936.7660 > > www.bnj.com > > > > Editor > > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > > /Paddlesurfing's Web Journal/ > > > > Bill at kenalu.com > > www.kenalu.com > > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sun Sep 14 11:43:30 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:43:30 -0500 Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: <006001c91691$6707c040$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LOddTR at aol.com Sun Sep 14 11:45:16 2008 From: LOddTR at aol.com (LOddTR at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:45:16 EDT Subject: [Fot] My Classic car Watkins Glen Message-ID: They said it was the "Zippo" so I expect it's a year old or more. Nice shot of Henry Frye on the historic circuit tour. Leo Oddi In a message dated 9/14/2008 1:44:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rkramer3 at austin.rr.com writes: Was My Classic Car at the Vintage Festival? They are on TV right now, but I don't know if it was this year or not, yet Bob Kramer _rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_ (mailto:rkramer3 at austin.rr.com) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 11:47:40 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Sun Sep 14 12:02:04 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ____________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. _See Now_ (http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/) = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Sep 14 12:13:45 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:13:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080914181345.EHNS21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > So I think this means that one can't always go by the > labeling on the pump. That's what I believe too; glad someone came up with hard evidence to support the theory. As mentioned, there is a Federal mandate for 10% ethanol that took effect early this year. However as I understand it, it only requires an average of 10% in the fuel sold, which likely means that fuel blended near the ethanol refineries will get more, and fuel blended far from an ethanol source will get less. Randall From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 12:18:54 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:18:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Steve, don't really need to get in contact with him. As far as the soaked frame, nope, must have been another article. Marty From: Gt6steve at aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:02:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [Fot] FOT in print (old print) To: trmarty at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Ken's racing at Buttonwillow with VARA this weekend but I can easily put you in touch if you're interested. Is that the issue that shows the visqueen lined hole where he soaked the frame? In a message dated 9/14/2008 10:48:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, trmarty at hotmail.com writes: As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now = _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Sun Sep 14 11:42:28 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:42:28 -0500 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Tim Murphy Cc: britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE standards they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group was pushing that bill? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club president did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were actually worse for the environment. Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which does reduce tailpipe emissions. But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one of them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer cars. Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce emissions at all. And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, so it does no good at all. Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 14 13:02:18 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ Message-ID: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open up the intake manifold to match them. Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final smoothing by hand. I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? Thanks, chris From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 14 13:13:56 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] HS6 on GT6+ In-Reply-To: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200809141902.m8EJ2IiE020632@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: I did it. http://www.gt6.ca/08/0108/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0223/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0310/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0405/index.html http://www.gt6.ca/08/0614/index.html Questions :) ? A. On 14-Sep-08, at 3:02 PM, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > After years of pushing the parts around my shop, I'm finally > getting started on this project. The mounting adapter plates > were easy enough. Now I'm to the point where I want to open > up the intake manifold to match them. > > Unfortunately, there isn't enough meat in the manifold to just > open the hole to 1.5" all the way in to where the runners > split off; doing that will come out into the open air :-( > My normal inclination would be to just grind it out by hand, > but it occurs to me that I might be better off doing this > with a boring head on the mill and then doing the final > smoothing by hand. > > I'd be really interested to hear suggestions about how these > holes should be shaped to make the most of the mod... Kas? Anyone? > > Thanks, > chris > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 15:50:17 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:50:17 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com> <46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:09:40 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:09:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? :-) Cheers, Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sun Sep 14 17:13:59 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:13:59 -0400 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) Message-ID: FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Sun Sep 14 17:16:57 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:16:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sun Sep 14 17:21:46 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:21:46 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Either way, one would tend to get the "munchies" Joe _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:17 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, spitlist at cox.net writes: Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? ==AM== Hey, with Willie's tour bus, I'll wager the smell inside the bus is as attractive to some as the exhaust smell outside. ;-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 14 17:30:16 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:30:16 +0100 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts References: <48CD113C.1010900@dfn.com><46921D4F-DDD6-421B-958F-F05406C9260E@bnj.com> <00cb01c916b3$e183fb50$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <018801c916c1$d865a8d0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Not so much animals - but the exhaust sure smells of fish and french fries when climbing steep hills. Trouble is, I'm trying to work out how I can refine the exhaust aroma to filter out the odours of flaming food wrapping (old newspaper) as well :) John ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Curry To: 'John Macartney' ; 'Bill Babcock' ; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: RE: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts John, Willie Nelson asked me to tell you that he is proud of you. Does your car (like his tour bus) attract a lot of animals to the smell of the exhaust? J Cheers, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:50 PM To: Bill Babcock; mdporter at dfn.com Cc: Group44TR7 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Whatever the merits/demerits of ethanol in gasoline, I've been a diesel user in my daily driver for some years. With rocketing fuel prices in the UK - a gallon of diesel costs me US$11.00 - I've just gone down the route of running my car on bio-diesel. As far as I can make out, bio-diesel is a refined and recycled fuel made mostly from cooking oil out of UK fish and chip shops and food processors. For a start it now costs me only US$3.20 a gallon and the performance difference is negligible and the car is more environmentally friendly with lower emissions than with the normal diesel. I have to say my first consideration was not the environment but my wallet ... Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Sun Sep 14 03:39:13 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:39:13 +1100 Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) References: Message-ID: <01ce01c9164d$bf7f3e90$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Also appeared in the Central Michigan Maraschino Cherry Producers Fall 1998 newsletter with the caption, " One cherry little sportscar!". Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: marty sukey To: FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [Fot] FW: FOT in print (old print) FYI, the frame stiffening article was in the Sept/Oct 1998 grassroots motorsports issue. Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: trmarty at hotmail.com To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: FOT in print (old print) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:47:40 -0400 As I sit here contemplating how to resurrect the TR6 I remembered that there was an article in Grassroots Motorsports years ago on stiffening Triumph TR3/4 frames that might apply to the TR6's. I dug out my collection and started paging through. Found it, it was and article by Ken Knight (don't know if he is FOT) with a picture leading on showing either Henry Frye or George Wrights car on track. Anyhow, British Car Feb 1992 talks about Bob Lang winning the Stock TR6 class at an autox in Rhode Island. Grassroots Motorsports Jan/Feb 1996 has a real nice article on Bill Dentinger and his TR3. And the Mar/April 1997 edition of Grassroots Motorsports has a nice article about Peyote when Bill Ames owned it. Probably a bunch more in the stack but I gotta stop and get something done. Kinda neat to look at these old articles and see folks I know. Marty Sukey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. See Now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:54:11 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:54:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: whups/ Another try. Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: Yes, the mileage goes down. By about 20% in average driving. Yes the fuel costs less. About a third when I filled up today. The fuel price is a lot less volatile too. It hasn't changed more than about 5 cents in the last month. Net/net it's a gain for me. The downside is I cannot use it while towing. The mileage goes WAY down. like to about 50% of what it is on gas w 10% ethanol. On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:50 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees > with most of you. > > I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run > on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: > > > 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the >> distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had >> something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I >> think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great >> plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners >> and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the >> distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. >> >> Tim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Bill Babcock >> *To:* Tim Murphy >> *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. >> On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: >> >> As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal >> mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well >> thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE >> standards >> they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in >> Congress >> to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying >> group >> was pushing that bill? >> >> Tim >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club >> >> president >> >> did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE >> >> mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped >> >> cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were >> >> actually worse for the environment. >> >> >> Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the >> >> American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Jim >> >> Dallas >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Randall >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM >> >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> >> Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison >> >> >> >> Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). >> >> >> Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does >> >> absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture >> >> richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. >> >> >> For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which >> >> does reduce tailpipe emissions. >> >> >> But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that >> >> were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one >> >> of >> >> them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more >> >> pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer >> >> cars. >> >> Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be >> >> surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, >> >> these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce >> >> emissions at all. >> >> >> And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, >> >> so >> >> it does no good at all. >> >> >> Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click >> >> Here. >> >> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> >> Fot mailing list >> >> Fot at autox.team.net >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* >> * >> * >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 14 19:50:26 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:50:26 -0400 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison In-Reply-To: <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> References: <20080914030202.YRHW21396.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <004d01c91617$320ad780$36513542@jrg> <000d01c9167c$953abc20$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> <9A49EF81-4952-4765-88D0-C7559721E16C@bnj.com> <006201c91691$42266010$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: Well the view from my side of the tracks is a bit different, yet agrees with most of you. I have a 2006 Chevy truck. It is an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle designed to run on 85% ethanol. The simple facts as I have discovered them: 2008/9/14 Tim Murphy > As I recall from another article, the ethanol is mixed at the > distributors, more or less at the end of the pipeline. I think it had > something to do with the ethanol not being good in the pipeline. Plus, I > think most of the ethanol plants are near the corn (upper midwest and great > plains states) and it wouldn't seem to make sense to ship it to the refiners > and then back north and east. It has been a pretty large expense for the > distributors to store and mix the ethanol as I understand. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Bill Babcock > *To:* Tim Murphy > *Cc:* britbits at netzero.com ; fot at autox.team.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:24 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > And there's an ethanol shortage, that won't go away for a long time. > On Sep 14, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Murphy wrote: > > As of September 1, 2008 all gasoline must have 10% ethanol by Federal > mandate. So I was told by a Mobil distributor. As always, a really well > thought out Federal mandate. At the same time they raise the CAFE > standards > they lower the MPG by mandating ethanol. There was also a bill in Congress > > to increase the mandated percentage of ethanol. Guess which lobbying group > > was pushing that bill? > > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > When MBTE was first proposed as an additive the local Triumph club > > president > > did a bit of investigation.. according to what he'd come up with the MBTE > > mix was designed for catalyst equipped cars... for non-catalyst equipped > > cars (the bulk of the Triumphs) the incompletely burned emissions were > > actually worse for the environment. > > > Just another example of poorly researched "science" being foisted on the > > American public. Don't get me started on the R-12 vs R-134 bs. > > > > Cheers, > > > Jim > > Dallas > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > > Behalf Of Randall > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:02 PM > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] gasoline comparison > > > > Helps the emissions (as the MTBE was supposed to do also!). > > > Don't kid yourself. For anything made in the last 20 years or so, it does > > absolutely nothing for emissions, as the computer just tweaks the mixture > > richer to compensate for the "oxygenated" fuel. > > > For most cars made before 1970 or so, it does make them run leaner, which > > does reduce tailpipe emissions. > > > But that leaves an awful lot of cars in between with fixed mixtures that > > were already tuned lean running on pure gasoline. And it only takes one > > of > > them pushed into lean misfire under cruise conditions, to emit more > > pollution than the oxygenate could reduce in hundreds of pre-computer > > cars. > > Of course eventually they'll burn up the valves and so on, but you'd be > > surprised at the number of them still running around here. And remember, > > these are the only cars where oxygenated fuel is supposed to reduce > > emissions at all. > > > And of course for Triumphs, we just adjust the mixture to suit the fuel, > > so > > it does no good at all. > > > Randall in the PRC (People's Republic of California) > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click > > Here. > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPRaDkneLj4oVQy4KpMlKptmI6g9ohyeOwa52XyPnDT4W/ > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 13:32:19 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:32:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR8s at the Glen Video Message-ID: TR8s at the Glen with group 44 Jag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAGy48KW_JQ Paul From macdonaldp at rogers.com Mon Sep 15 15:03:56 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:03:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Message-ID: Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! Paul MacDonald (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace1A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2A.flv http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR ace2B.flv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vanlake at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 15 15:32:16 2008 From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:32:16 +0000 Subject: [Fot] TR6 racers w/overdrive Message-ID: <091520082132.15948.48CED460000CE50700003E4C22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net> I would like to discuss some model specific (TR6) questions that I have with current TR6 racers. mainly those drivers that are/have used overdrive transmissions either A, or J, types. If you could drop me a line so that I could bounce a few questions off you it would be greatly appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 15 16:38:13 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: <656FE146.72CDABEF.00159EE9@cs.com> from newfoundland...and the roar of targa actually mark bradakis plunks his magic twanger. wondered why kent has not joined us sooner. joe a >Okay, I have never nominted someone before and am no computer geek. What >happens next? Joe, wave you magic wand. > >Tim Suddard >Publisher; Classic Motorsports >and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >www.classicmotorsports.net >www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > >In a message dated 9/10/08 11:57:09 PM, macdonaldp at rogers.com writes: > > >> Sounds like a perfect candidate for the 'group'. >> ?? >> ?I'll second that. >> ?? >> ?Paul MacDonald >> ?-----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On >> Behalf Of GRMTim at aol.com >> Sent: September 10, 2008 11:50 PM >> To: fot at autox.team.net >> Cc: kent at auto-restore.com >> Subject: [Fot] Nomination >> >> I would like to nominate Kent Bain. He owns Vintage Racing Services in CT, >> owns and drives an insanely fast Spitfire and has promised me he would bring >> the Kastner Brophy GT6 to the Mitty next year to face off against the Group 44 >> GT6. He should be in our community, as he knows a lot about Triumphs, has a >> lot of spares and has a lot of Triumph customers. >> >> Tim Suddard >> Publisher; Classic Motorsports >> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines >> www.classicmotorsports.net >> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com >> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 >> >> >> >> ************** >> Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the >> latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >> > > > > > > > > >************** >Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, >plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > >(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 18:56:24 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:56:24 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:04:41 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:04:41 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <36245AE8-CEB4-4999-B78C-568763AAF3A9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000801c9171a$79501610$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Rear axle bearing end play? Axle length may have been changed by freezing or shims gotten mixed up during reassembly. Just thinking what may have changed when you removed and froze the rear axles. Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg - Lunker Hilyer" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 15 19:19:52 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:19:52 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Message-ID: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:20:44 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:20:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Message-ID: Greg, My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more expensive! Good Luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 15 19:23:49 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:23:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4544B734-8728-4C31-BBB2-9EC7B2BB2632@gt6.ca> A friend of mine had an odd vib, on a whim he swapped the drums and yeah it went away. A. On 15-Sep-08, at 9:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also been > through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, and > balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old iron > drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. The > strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road America, > the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was delighted to > figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not something more > expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net > writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:50:42 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:50:42 EDT Subject: [Fot] Toast to Jack at Road America this weekend Message-ID: Hi everyone, I know that there where many of you who took a moment to raise a glass to Uncle Jack at the Glen last week. I wish I could have been there, but alas it's just too far from Minneapolis for me this year. I am assuming that there are a number of you who could not be at the Glen, but WILL be at Road America this weekend for Fall Festival. For those who will be there I invite you to stop by my paddock on Friday at 5:30 P.M. for a toast, a cigar, and to share a few more good words about Uncle Jack. I'll provide the Single Malt, decent cigars, and Gin for the non-scotch drinkers in the crowd (we do after all race English cars). I also had a 3X5 foot banner made-up that I would like to have people sign, and we will give to Tony for garage-art at the end of the weekend. You can find me parked with the "British Race Group" (please forgive the presence of the MG's) in the grass competition paddock across from the t-shirt shop, near the gas pumps. Look for the white #711 Ginetta G15. ( I know, I know, no Triumph again this week. The Kellison/TR4 is nearing completion!) Hope to see many of you there. Please feel free to bring anyone who knew Jack. Or anyone who wants a free drink, and is willing to SAY that they knew Jack. We'll pour until the Scotch runs out. The trackside dinner starts around 6:00, so we'll start on time at 5:30. Hope to see you all there, John Houlton P.S. I also conduct the track-side devotional time Sunday morning under the VSCDA tent, and will be offering thanks and remembrance for Jack during that time. No cocktails in church, however. Bill Dentinger won't allow it. He's funny that way. **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Catpusher at aol.com Mon Sep 15 19:53:31 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:53:31 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen: Amazing Message-ID: Happy that I could make it to the Glen; a fine event. I was amazed that I missed a number of FOT in the three days that I was there; just like trying to keep up with the posts lately! Hardy **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 04:54:14 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:54:14 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. References: Message-ID: <003301c91721$652eb810$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Thanks. Seems a pretty big tank for such a small vehicle. Guess fill stations were fewer and farther between in the day. BTW, I hate to fill it up, as the fumes more noticable when it is full. Thinking of installing a fume interceptor from a later MGB or TR6, but don't know how they are configured relative to the tank/vent. Any insights? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Gano palm top To: Steven Preiss Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: RE: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. The manual cites "Imperial" gallons. The conversion is 14.99 U. S. gallons. Kg -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Steven Preiss Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:56 PM To: Tim Murphy Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I am wondering where the mixing of the fuels (Petrol and Ethanol) is done to allow for all these different percentages by location. Curious also whether the percentage varies by grade. Incidentally the manual states that the TR engines were designed to run on 80 octane. I'm guessing that the grading system has been changed since then. However I had been running 93 octane in my nearly stock TR3 street motor, until I decide to try a tank of 89. The engine seems to like the lower octane better, is running less rich and consuming fuel at a slower rate. Finally, can anyone tell me the capacity (US gals) of an early TR3 fuel tank? The manual states 12.5 gals, but I am putting in 12 gals with what appears to be something like 2 gals still remaining. Are they using Imperial measurement? (understand that 1 US gal equals about 5/6 Imperial gal) Steve P.---- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: John Herrera ; Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. On the way to the Glen bought gas in Indiana, Ohio and New York and never saw an ethanol sticker on a single pump. Here in Wisconsin they are on all the pumps, on all 3 grades. I also saw someplace (can't remember where, CRS disease) that some supplieres are adding more than the required 10%. An economic move I believe the article said. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: Bill Collins ; FOT Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Ethanol in TX gasoline. I spent Tuesday afternnon hanging about in my old friend's hangar. He was finishing an annual on a Piper Colt that has the Autogas STC. He needed gasoline to test the engine so he went to the nearby Sheetz and bought a can of 87 octane rating and a can of 91. Neither pump was labeled as containing ethanol. The STC allows the use of autogas only if it contains NO alcohol, so he tested the gas for alcohol content using a test kit. The kit came from Sporty's or Aircraft Spruce or equivalent. The 87 contained 8% and the 91 contained 5% alcohol. So I think this means that one can't always go by the labeling on the pump. John H. In Texas, soon as one get out of the metropolitan areas of Ft. Worth and Dallas, say 15 miles south of Fort Worth to Motor Sports Ranch, there is NO Ethanol in any of the pump gas. I know this because while doing HPDE's in my M3 I looked for Shell 93 Oct. I noticed that the required "May contain up to 10% Ethanol" sticker required by law to be on every pump containing Ethanol was absent along with any vapor recovery technology. The station owner confirmed... No Ethanol Bill Collins '64 MK1 Spit racer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 20:41:48 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:41:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW - could it be that simple... ? I run modified 240Z finned aluminum drums - same as has been on the car for awhile. I have noticed while adjusting the rear brakes that they are not absolutely true - when adjusted a notch too tight, 180 deg. makes the difference from a bit tight to totally free. They have been that way for the couple years I've run them but never a problem. Curious though that you mention those 3 tracks - 2 that I've been on in the last two weeks and probably the fastest that I've ever seen and don't care to in the current condition. However, I would think that it would be a progressive problem - not one that would come on with such a difference [still not convinced that it is not 4th gear only - been racing, not testing and that is my fault]. I am packing spare cast drums, rear axle, hub and bearings and a diff cut off at the tubes [ not that I could DO anything with the diff. - only in hopes that I could find someone that could set it up should the need come up]. I guess that would be one change I could make for a chassis dyno. Otherwise I don't know that a dyno could help much. A really great stretch of road would be preferable but the 19 cops I've seen in the last couple hundred miles makes that seem unlikely. Wisconsin probably won't help either. There is lots to be said for New Mexico, and some of the "Last Open Roads" is near the top of the list. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:20 PM, JHOUATHOME at aol.com wrote: > Greg, > My TR4 used to have a similar mystery vibration, which in the end, > after much frustrating searching over many events, turned out to be > an out of balance rear brake drum. Stupid, I know. I had also > been through several attempts to balance wheels, replace wheels, > and balance everything else, and simply never thought of those old > iron drums. I swapped them out and never had the problem again. > The strangest thing about it was that the problem seemed to be > intermittent, and would crop-up with no pattern that I could figure > out. In the end, that was it though. Upon more careful > consideration I realized that it was only happening at Road > America, the Glen, and BIR, all pretty fast places. I was > delighted to figure it out. Hope this is your problem, and not > something more expensive! > > Good Luck, > John Houlton > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 21:43:25 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:43:25 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Message-ID: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 15 22:59:36 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:59:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Mon Sep 15 23:28:05 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:28:05 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > Greg... > > Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that > track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn > ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new > track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot > print. > > Bill Dentinger > > > In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: > Hello all, > Beaten by equipment... > My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you > gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to > finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal > conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only > fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - > perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my > 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon > startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the > pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the > next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to > even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind > me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing > that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as > enjoyable as saturday. > Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my > perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have > supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false > economy and bitten me in the butt. > Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us > about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I > ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed > before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my > butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond > 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought > I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard > felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and > not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and > again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only > but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - > i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th > progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it > come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru > the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or > thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't > mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter > [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely > keep me from going to Road America. > Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. > I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not > it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in > the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- > out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from > the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle > bearings seem to be in fine shape. > The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me > [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the > previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 > differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still > can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen > axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank > shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and > half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] > to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being > unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow > in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not > detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at > straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. > Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas > regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm > feeling and have the spot-on answer. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Tue Sep 16 01:54:51 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:54:51 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, and meaningless on inline engines? mjb. From RustyTR4 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 04:37:19 2008 From: RustyTR4 at aol.com (RustyTR4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:37:19 EDT Subject: [Fot] =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0_Nomination?= Message-ID: I will second that and welcome Jack to the ranks. Matt Matt Bakes Triumph Rescue (610) 845 - 8217 _www.TriumphRescue.com_ (http://www.triumphrescue.com/) British Wiring, Inc. 866-461-9050 _www.BritishWiring.com_ (http://www.britishwiring.com/) 617 Walnut St. Bally, PA. 19503 **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaf3 at charter.net Tue Sep 16 06:11:17 2008 From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:11:17 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <48CFA265.9080402@charter.net> That's correct Mark The odd fire engines are those 90 degree V6 engines modified from V8's with crankpins at 90 degrees. Some of the early GM V6's even used V8 distributor caps with two towers removed from the cap. Later odd fire engines offset the crankpins slightly but they never achieved a 120 degree offset. FYI Glenn Franco Spit racer under construction Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 06:17:04 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:17:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> <006b01c917b9$06654ae0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <007301c917f6$21f3a8a0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Well we need not say any more ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM TOBIN To: rob ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Beats me about the engine in my Tr6, but some people say the driver is a little odd! A little late night humor. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 06:33:46 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:33:46 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> References: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Greg, I'm too far away to be of any help other than moral support. Only you can judge the severity of your vibration, but once you are sure the engine is balanced, that the trans is not coming apart, the driveshaft is straight you end up at the rear axle. Pulling the cover off and having a look at the teeth may give you some solace. For my part, running at TWS all these years I thought that the 100 mph vibration was pretty normal and I'm encouraged that there may be a solution by looking into the brake drums. Interestingly, I never notice the vibration on the long front straight, just the back 40 6 grand in third. This was true in my old TR4 and remains the same in the 4A, whatever that means. I blew an oil cooler once in a cold weather start-up. They tend to be a little fragile depending on how they are mounted. What I'm saying is that you may be OK, but like I said only you can be the judge. 3 tracks in three weeks, Barley isn't the only dog in your truck. Wish it was me! With all this track time I guess you aren't going to Hallet October 4 and 5th? Bob -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg - Lunker Hilyer Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:43 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive Still in Minnesota. Dropped Connie off at the Minneapolis airport at 1:00pm today as she needed to be home faster than I could drive. Delighted she could stay long enough for this weekends race, but someone has to get home to make some $$. I cut todays drive a bit short to get on the [this] list and make other contacts. To close to Elkhart Lake to not give a last ditch effort. Current problems of a leaking [spewing] oil cooler, temperamental starter [relatively easy fixes] and the BIG VIBE make Road America unlikely. But I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's the deal [offer].... The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with good race experience want to make a group effort? If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. Greg "Lunker Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 06:52:37 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:52:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <48CF664B.3000803@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <20080916125237.CLGP12447.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@randall> > I may be wrong, but isn't odd/even related to V type engines, > and meaningless on inline engines? Not necessarily. "Even fire" means that the cylinder firings are evenly spaced around two rotations of the crankshaft (for a 4 cycle engine). The old John Deere inline 2 cylinder tractor motors were odd fire. Instead of having the crank arranged so both pistons came to TDC at the same time (as required for an even fire 4 stroke 2 cylinder), the throws were opposite. Thus the cylinders fired 180 degrees apart, then no firing for 540 degrees. The resulting exhaust note earned them the nickname "Johnny Poppers". But I don't know of any other examples of inline odd fire engines. Randall From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 16 07:12:39 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:12:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive In-Reply-To: <8ED99A2E-7561-4FCB-BB64-0094CC1512C7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CBE@server.Triumph.local> Greg, I hope somebody comes up with a weekend saving offer for you! I always wanted to make VSCDA's Fall Festival at Road America, hopefully some day. Having paddocked next to you at the Glen I can happily endorse Barley as the best dog in the paddock. I would not dismiss the brake drums causing the vibration too quickly, especially since you had to have them machined to open up the center hole. That operation could have easily thrown them off balance. My very high speed vibration was caused by the gearbox tailhousing bolts working loose. I have since added snugging up those 6 bolts to my between race weekend checklist and have been fine ever since. The vibration did cause me to retire that gearbox case and rebuild into a new one, but I felt the vibration at every track I ran. Henry Frye #04 TR4 > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer > Subject: [Fot] Road America - Looking for a drive > Here's the deal [offer].... > The entry fee for Road America is going to keep me from going > it alone. If I can get a [well?] educated guess on my > problem, I'm game to give it a try with a co-entrant. The [1 > hour] enduro sounds like fun. My car is not high-power at > it's best, and not complimented by high speed tracks, but > enduros can be different. I don't say quit easy. Anyone with > good race experience want to make a group effort? > If we're going to run my car, I would ask for one half of the > expenses - entry fee, gas, tires, etc. That's assuming we can > get a handle on the vibration issue. Please understand that > mine is a truly low budget car that many might consider crude > and scary - just "where I live" to me. Those over about 5'11" > need not apply - the rest can probably be accommodated. > The [to me] better alternative is to drive YOUR car. Same > applies - I'll cover 1/2 entry fee, gas, tires, etc. I'm > packing a full compliment of tools, spares [doesn't have to > be a TR but I've got lots, including a TR4 that could be > considered a parts car at a moments notice], 3 sets of race > tires, $150 of race fuel and the best pit dog [not pit Bull] > to be had. Spotless race license [plan to keep it that way] > and references upon request for the car, the dog and even myself. > I've got about 14 hrs. to make up my mind before it requires > a U-turn [not that it makes a difference] before I hit the > point of no return [maybe Denver or northern New Mexico]. > From macdonaldp at rogers.com Tue Sep 16 08:38:27 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen In-Reply-To: <00c501c91804$ab190810$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: If you are having trouble viewing, I would suggest going to my home page on photobucket then go to page two, the videos are all there. They end with 1, 1A, 2A and 2B http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/ Paul -----Original Message----- From: Craig [mailto:wensley_Tr at comcast.net] Sent: September 16, 2008 10:01 AM To: Paul MacDonald Subject: Re: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen Paul I've tried to open any one of the four up and I can't get it to open (help) Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul MacDonald" To: "Fot" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 5:03 PM Subject: [Fot] TRiumph Feature Watkins Glen > > Finally figured how to upload this monster...we don't need no stinkin' > youtube. Get some popcorn, it is about 18 minutes all together. > > The race is in four parts, and I am pretty sure that you can download it. > > As they say in NewFoundLand...fill yer boots bye! > > Paul MacDonald > > (usual disclaimer applies...wedge content!) > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace1A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2A.flv > > http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w48/ACN1081/?action=view¤t=TriumphR > ace2B.flv > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From WEmery7451 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 10:19:43 2008 From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Sep 16 10:51:38 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:51:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience > would be a > problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero emissions (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities refused to allow him to license it for the street. Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to internal combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. Randall From rem9 at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 16 10:55:24 2008 From: rem9 at frontiernet.net (Russ Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) Thanks Russ Moore Spitfire #49 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 10:57:41 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com Marty Sukey _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 11:07:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:07:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161007n6c659a5clb93a009ecf306c76@mail.gmail.com> try aurorabearing.com. Great catalog. 2008/9/16 Russ Moore > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:20:13 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:20:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] gasoline comparison - ethanol impacts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, boiler inspections are required, it's what killed steam heating, which is much more efficient and requires far less internal space than ducted air. Well, that and the clanging, water hammers and the opportunity to be scalded to death in your own apartment. . You can build a very efficient steam engine, but you still bang up against the carnot cycle. And air-cooled steam engines hit that wall a lot sooner than water cooled. Still, they make a lot of sense for cars, especially in a hybrid approach where warm-up wouldn't be such a problem. Single speed steam engines can be much more efficient than variable speed ones--they make great generators, which is one reason steam turbines are the default generator prime mover. They require complex water removal systems to ensure the steam has no entrained liquid--it eats the blades up like a sandblaster. But that's ancient technology. I've been reading a lot of popular physics books lately (that sounds like an oxymoron) and I'm struck with how many good ideas have been squashed by "fashion" in science. You don't have to be a quack to have your career ended by supporting a discredited theory. Just ask Pons and Fleischman (Cold Fusion). Interesting that all these many years later (15) the department of Energy convened a second review panel (2004) to look at chemically influenced nuclear processes. The area of study has been deeply compromised by the public mania and resultant backlash in the scientific community. Fashion, in other words. It doesn't take a conspiracy to doom promising technologies, all that's necessary is plain old human self-interest and herd mentality. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Randall wrote: > > Flieshman >> The environmentalist wouldn't like it, and convenience >> would be a >> problem -- starting a fire and heating the water to steam. > > Legend has it that Bill Lear solved those problems. Near-zero > emissions > (not counting CO2) and startup time measured in seconds. But (again > according to legend) he abandoned the project after authorities > refused to > allow him to license it for the street. > > Even today, most places have fairly draconian laws regarding even low > pressure boilers; far more restrictive than those applicable to > internal > combustion engines operating at many times higher pressures. > > Randall > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:23:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:23:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8? > hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and > high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:24:23 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:24:23 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 16 11:25:36 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 10:25:36 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from everywhere these days. On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be > had in a couple days. > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > >> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >> >> >> >> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >> Spitfire) >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Russ Moore >> >> Spitfire #49 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 11:39:56 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:39:56 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> <3BB4A2FA-3AC9-4504-88E5-AC486F30D0CC@bnj.com> Message-ID: Including the USA according to the box they come in. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I would use those on non-critical applications. Napa sources from > everywhere these days. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Greg - Lunker Hilyer wrote: > >> Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be >> had in a couple days. >> >> Greg "Lunker" Hilyer >> TR4 #314 >> Albuquerque NM >> On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: >> >>> I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim >>> joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? >>> >>> >>> >>> I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a >>> 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts >>> and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a >>> Spitfire) >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Russ Moore >>> >>> Spitfire #49 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 11:52:20 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:52:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> References: <516CD433-6C7E-4685-8CFD-A9E5AAF4264B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CAE63C1A1CD195-F08-113A@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Unless they have changed, the NAPA are junk... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: Russ Moore Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Any NAPA store. If not in stock, they are in their catalog and can be had in a couple days. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim > joints. Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > > > I am looking for male joints with a ?? UNF thread (L & R) and a > 3/8? hole in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts > and high base nuts for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a > Spitfire) > > > > Thanks > > Russ Moore > > Spitfire #49 > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:09:51 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:09:51 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161209332.SM02816@[166.70.182.40]> I'll second this nomination!? Another spitfire driver is always a good thing. Brad To: trmarty at hotmail.com CC: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:03:37 +0000 From: brad.kahler at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event > ....MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ....... >? > Marty SukeyWow! So many ways you could take this statement!? See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. See Now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brad.kahler at 141.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:23 2008 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:14:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event Message-ID: <200809161214707.SM02520@[166.70.182.40]> I'l second this nomination, even if Mark does have to use his "twanger" to get the job done! Brad -----Original Message----- From: "marty sukey" Sent 9/16/2008 10:57:41 AM To: "FOT" Subject: [Fot] One more nomination from the Glen event .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I would like to nominate one more fellow Triumph nut that was at the Glen. Mike Harmuth was?racing that nice red 1963 Spitfire. So what do you say, can I get a second while MJB has his twanger out? Mikes email is harmug at us.ibm.com?? ? Marty Sukey Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. Learn Now_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 12:14:52 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:14:52 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 16 12:19:18 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:19:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: Greg Hilyer wrote: > Including the USA according to the box they come in. Careful here. I have noted a LOT of products that have "Made in the USA" on the box/wrapping, but the actual bits you need are made in Taiwan/China/Philippines/etc. McMaster-Carr is a good source, but no guarantee of where the stuff is made. McMaster-Carr do make an effort to source stuff made in the USA, but it's no guarantee. Pegasus Racing is a reliable source for hi-po stuff. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Tue Sep 16 12:50:56 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:50:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ask Kyle Busch what he thinks about the quality of rods ends Joe Gibbs Racing chose...... ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of REK46 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:15 PM To: rem9 at frontiernet.net; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Buy good ones...your life may depend on it....there are many 'grades of these , in the steel used,the ball/socket, and the fact that you are trying to use two mixed sizes ,changes the ratings....best to use one size thread and ball....for a Spit, the 7/16" are fine. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:19:44 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:19:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: <000901c9181d$03440f40$09cc2dc0$@net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809161219v36d7f500x5f8a2cc782d9cdab@mail.gmail.com> Aircraft Spruce sells Aurora bearings 2008/9/16 Bill Babcock > Aurora is one of the biggest rode end manufacturers in the US. Prices > aren't any better than Summit, but the range of products is much wider. > On Sep 16, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Russ Moore wrote: > > I am looking for some left and right hand threaded male type Heim joints. > Any suggestions other than Pegasus or Summit? > > I am looking for male joints with a ?" UNF thread (L & R) and a 3/8" hole > in the swivel portion. I also am going to need jamb nuts and high base nuts > for welding on some tubes. (radius rods for a Spitfire) > > Thanks > Russ Moore > Spitfire #49 > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > *Paddlesurfing's Web Journal* > * > * > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 16 13:23:22 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:23:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: They do sell spacers that will allow smaller ID than the bearing domes with ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 16 15:52:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:52:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Assen race #1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is a video of the race #1. After practice for race #2 I had to retire caused by a broken crank. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4143349641455918640 Have fun -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Tue Sep 16 17:39:16 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even In-Reply-To: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> References: <7C20D7F282104252AD521939C91CD960@RobPC> Message-ID: Thank you all for the help with this. I learned something rob ----- Original Message ----- From: rob To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: [Fot] Tr-6 odd/even Hi folks Is the Tr6 an odd fire or an even fire motor? With a fireing order of 1-5-3-6-2-4 my guess is Odd fire. thanks rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dlhogye at aol.com Tue Sep 16 18:56:22 2008 From: Dlhogye at aol.com (Dlhogye at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:56:22 EDT Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought Message-ID: FOT, I had no real idea of what I was getting myself into when I bought my TR3 last June. I just thought I'd build a great little car to go racing with and meet some cool people along the way. It's going to take me awhile to get my car on the track, hopefully I'll be able to run it next season, but I'm well on my way to meeting some really cool folks. Thanks to Tim Suddard and Gary Hunter at Classic Motorsport for pointing me towards FOT and thanks to Gary Horstkorta and Joe Alexander for my nomination to the club. In a very short amount of time I've been gathering a wealth of information and making great connections that will assist me in building a safe, more reliable and hopefully fast TR. I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. After their run most of the cars went to Lafayette Park and were positioned on the lawn around the pavilion where the Triumph "Legends" were to speak. It was a perfect day in the park. There I was pleased to meet Kas Kasner, and the Master of the FOT, I think I can call him that, Joe Alexander. Oh, and there, I was also surprised to rub elbows with Brian Redman, a Legend indeed. The Legends Speak was a fantastic introduction into the lifestyle of Triumph and racing. The rest of the weekend was spent at the track meeting numerous "Friends" and checking out some really sweet machines up close and going 'round the track. It was also nice to meet Joe Richard's and see his very special car, TS1. All in all, it was a great turnout for the Triumph enthusiast. I'd like to thank everyone for the meeting and for taking the time to share some TR stories and information. I never would have thought owning a Triumph would lead so quickly to this much pleasure and camaraderie. Thanks again, Dave Hogye Santa Cruz,CA. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 17 08:59:30 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:59:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Who would've thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. John H. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Wed Sep 17 09:17:30 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:17:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Phone # needed Message-ID: <87591BF4-73D3-49C8-92A1-87B02DAF8B3E@earthlink.net> Anyone got a cell &/or daytime phone number for Tony Drews? If so, please send it off list. Thanks, Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From VANDECARR at aol.com Wed Sep 17 17:28:23 2008 From: VANDECARR at aol.com (VANDECARR at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:28:23 EDT Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) Message-ID: I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. Dean VanDeCarr ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Wed Sep 17 17:33:07 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:33:07 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, but generally they can find what I'm looking for. 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. The > sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress situations and > HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions that take a beating. > There web site is www.behrents.com. Used their rod ends on the front end > of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have hda no problems. Prices seem to be > cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the > latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 17 18:08:00 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Rod ends source (Heim Joints) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A good bearing supply store is a godsend, especially if they have folks that know their business. We have two good ones here in Portland. They DO have rod ends, and one of them stocks Aurora. Aurora invented the two piece rod end, which is substantially stronger than the typical three piece. On Sep 17, 2008, at 4:33 PM, robert bownes wrote: > > I just go down to the local bearing supply store. Really...They are > about 3 doors down from the UPS depot. If there is one in Albany, > N.Y. I'm sure you can find one in any decent sized city. > > The alternate place I've found them: The tractor/ag supply store. I > might have to get the parts guy to hunt through a few parts bins, > but generally they can find what I'm looking for. > > > > 2008/9/17 > I have bought rod ends and misc pieces from Behrents in Florida NY. > The sell the cheap ones that are used for shifters and non stress > situations and HD ones that are used on dirt modified suspensions > that take a beating. There web site is www.behrents.com. Used > their rod ends on the front end of my EM TR 6 for 5 years and have > hda no problems. Prices seem to be cheaper that Pegasus. > > Dean VanDeCarr > > > ************** > Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus > the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 17 22:01:43 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Wed Sep 17 21:02:55 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:02:55 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 05:36:30 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:36:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> References: <20080918030301.6EFC5187681@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8CAE799EDF00C94-1624-2577@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> Yes you run it into the drilling in the back of the head. -3 is fine but it has an ID of .125, which will allow too much oil & fill up the rocker cover. Depending on what fitting arrangement you wind up using, you may have to use a restrictor, about .075 is about right in most cases. Some AN fittings have a hole not much larger than this so it's not necessary to restrict it. Also make sure the shaft & bushes are to spec. If you are in doubt about how much oil you're getting up top, you can let a piece of plexiglass into the top of an old rocker cover & get a visual on it. HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: Tony Drews To: Greg & Alison Blake ; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:02 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head You can see the oil feed attached at both ends clearly in this picture: http://www.tonydrews.com/2007-8Rebuild/DSCN0125.JPG As I understand it, both ends were existing holes plugged with a bolt with washer, so it's really easy to attach. You don't want TOO much oil to the top end, or it fills up the valve cover, as I understand it.? Wear on the #1 rocker would be a classic sign of not enough oil to the rockers. - Tony Drews At 11:01 PM 9/17/2008, Greg & Alison Blake wrote: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has.? Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 06:14:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:14:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] - Who would've thought -now....respect for Triumphs at The Glen.. Message-ID: <08F8F295.308B0492.00159EE9@cs.com> FOT, Back in the USA.....crossed border last night. Based on comments I have received, The Triumph (FOT) is very popular group at the Glen. There was a lot of participation from the FOT on all fronts, as well as VTR & TRA. Good feedback from the Village and The Glen. Expect another invitation in the future. If an objective was to elevate the status of our Triumphs, we did it in a resounding way. SVRA caused it to happen by initiating the idea...likely mostly Jack Woehrle. So many people to thank.... Joe A Start planning for 2012, it will be a big one. The 60th Anniversary of Triumphs in Competition. Joe A > > ?I made the trip to Watkins Glen to meet people I've been writing to and reading about, and to check out some racecars up close too. I spent Friday in town and watched the different groups of cars begin their laps of the original course on Franklin St. The first group started around 1:00, it was an all Triumph group. There was at least eighty street cars in the group. > > >Actually, 115 Triumphs participated in the Tour de Marque! > >They said that it was the second highest number of cars in the history of the event. They didn't say which marque had the most, but last year Corvette was featured, so my money is on them. Or maybe MG... > >They were supposed to cut registration off at 100 cars, but I guess they couldn't bring themselves to turn away such wonderful cars. > >John H.= > From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Thu Sep 18 06:38:40 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:38:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and bearing condition in general. I don't use the oil feed line in my race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 18 07:00:57 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:00:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> I notice no one has mentioned that there is a oil feed kit available from Moss. It's been a standard "tuning" item for many years. I've put them on all the engines I have, I consider it an automatic requirement, even for a street engine. Feeding from the back is probably adequate, I've never had a wear problem and I see oil coming from all the rocker holes as soon as pressure builds. The oil mist in the rocker box is also critical for lubricating the valve stem and guide. You CAN have too much though. Filling the valve cover is a possibility, as is robbing too much oil from the bottom end either by reducing pressure or running the pan level below the oil pickup. I wouldn't mess with the oil passage size, just make sure it's not obstructed. On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:38 AM, Kramer, Robert wrote: > Also consider the condition of the rocker bushings in line and > bearing condition in general. I don?t use the oil feed line in my > race car, but we have plenty of oil pressure at full tilt. > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:02 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you > attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever > tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker > pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the > rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > Thanks, > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 18 07:05:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:05:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> <8932F249-C7B7-46A4-B287-A2C9EF663489@bnj.com> Message-ID: <20080918130532.10E5018764A@autox.team.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Thu Sep 18 07:15:18 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000001c91943$464ec380$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <48D25466.7090104@pobox.com> If you don't have enough oil getting to the rocker assembly, I would look for the cause. The rocker assembly is at the end of the line, if you have worn bearings, the oil will bleed off before it gets there. I'd guess that cam bearings are the most likely culprit. When replacing them, make sure all the holes are oriented correctly. If your motor is health, you should have copious amounts of oil coming out of the little holes in the rockers, even at a brisk idle. I think the outside line is sometimes a band aid for a weak motor. Larry Young Greg & Alison Blake wrote: > > I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil > supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16" deep after > 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached > a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried > opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal > interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker > shaft and connecting an oil line directly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 07:24:31 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 06:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181324.m8IDOV5R016023@moose.dimebank.com> I like these, but it's possible to get too much oil, resulting in oil smoke in "less than perfect" engines. Later versions of these have a special banjo bolt with a more restrictive passage that trims the amount of oil to the head. You used to be able to order those banjos from TriumphTune; not sure if Moss US will supply them separately or not (and no, I don't know the dimensions...) From REK46 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 07:27:57 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:27:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fpspitfire at comcast.net Thu Sep 18 07:48:09 2008 From: fpspitfire at comcast.net (fpspitfire at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:48:09 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take. I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top. Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. aaron -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear head passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: REK46 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:28:22 +0000 Size: 659 URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:05:28 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:05:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> References: <091820081348.22013.48D25C18000E3018000055FD22147564020A9D07009B079F9C9F00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CAE7AEBC8C861B-98C-2AAB@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> I make them up out of good AN hardware, instead of using the pre-made kits. The ones that I have seen use swaged fittings & I don't trust them. Another benefit to plugging the head/block ports is that eliminates that potential oil leak at the gasket joint at the rear of the engine. Glen ps- you can also use little freeze plugs in lieu of drilling/tapping the ports. -----Original Message----- From: fpspitfire at comcast.net To: REK46 at aol.com; cak at dimebank.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 9:48 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head While I have never fitted one of these to any of my engines as I've never found the need they are simple enough to make and you can do a far nicer looking job that the one from Moss of VB that uses the oil sender location for the off take.? I have one of these somewhere if someone wants it. ? You can get two AN-3 fittings, and make a nice proper length AN-3 oil hose to go between the rear most oil passage and the bolt fixing on the top.? Probably for a 1/3 the price the Moss kit is. ? I believe the standard practise if you fit one of these is to block off the oil passage that goes through the head by drilling and tapping a plug at the block. ? aaron ? -------------- Original message -------------- From: REK46 at aol.com Didn't VicBrit sell these also?....comes out of oil pres. gauge hole-up to the rear20head? passage bolt....ready to bolt on, -3 aroquip. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wgrosenbach at juno.com Thu Sep 18 08:27:30 2008 From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (wgrosenbach at juno.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:27:30 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply. The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles. Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? Thanks, Greg ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3n4ViQqdf7o8aQMKeAwdkFLhACRSCdVQG4CYM09v5ewRHEGO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:51:55 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:51:55 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> References: <20080918.082730.2988.3.wgrosenbach@juno.com> Message-ID: <8CAE7B53A3AB4BA-1170-2EF@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> Yeah whatever works... but... that's way too big. It sounds like you have some wear issues. You'll also see a drop in oil pressure at low revs if it's bleeding that much oil off to the top. JMHO Glen -----Original Message----- From: wgrosenbach at juno.com To: ablake2 at austin.rr.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:27 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head When I discovered the external oil port on the left rear of the TR/GT-6 heads that feed into the rocker assembly, I gathered about $2.00 worth of pieces from the hardware store and connected that opening to the oil galley with 1/4" copper tube. It provided the rear half of the rocker shaft with more oil than it needed, the front half with less than I wanted to see, but more than it had been getting. I considered trying to feed both ends of the shaft to balance that, but never got that far. Bill 70 GT-6+ ? On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:01:43 -0500 "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> writes: I have very good evidence that my head is lacking sufficient oil supply.? The shaft on #1 rocker has gouges about 1/16? deep after 35,000 miles.? Can one of you email me a picture of where you attached a supplemental oil feed line to your head?? Has anyone ever tried opening up that pathetic oil passage that the head/rocker pedestal interface has. =C 2Has anyone tried tapping the end cap of the rocker shaft and connecting an oil line directly? ? Thanks, ? Greg ? ____________________________________________________________ Click here to choose from a huge selection of shipping supplies!_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 08:58:44 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: Amici... In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them. A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race. While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Thu Sep 18 09:08:51 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 18 09:23:00 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:23:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/18/2008 10:09:50 AM Central Daylight Time, cak at dimebank.com writes: > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > We have a TR3 engine on the shelf that has a 'SAH plate' on it. We've had it for years, and have never used it (nor taken it apart). At this point, we certainly would not expect to see anything extra-ordinary. It came over from England in a LOTUS (of all things), and of course was not a good fit. Bill Dentinger ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 18 10:36:40 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:36:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII Message-ID: That is awesome. Way to go Bill!! Cheers and good luck. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO 63 TR 4 # 69 (Old # 96) **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com Thu Sep 18 12:40:41 2008 From: gregmogdoc at surfnetusa.com (Greg Solow) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:40:41 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Beaten by equipment References: <940555DA-AAA3-49E6-BCCC-DA6A25C6DD45@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003801c919be$0e2583b0$6401a8c0@TER2> The oil cooler failure was most likely caused by incorrect routing of the oil flow caused by an oil cooler line adaptor that routes the oil through the oil cooler before it goes past the oil pressure relief valve. It must go past the oil pressure relief valve first so that the valve will open and reduce the pressure when the engine & oil is very cold & thick. When it goes through the cooler first, the cold oil pressure has "surges" that travel through the lines & pressurze the cooler to levels most likely exceeding 200 psi! A number or years ago we blew up 3 coolers in a row in similar circumstances before we figured out what the problem was!. We now have proper oil cooler adaptor blocks available that route the oil correctly so this will not happen. They are tapped for 1/2 pipe threads so adaptors for whatever lines you are using can be fitted. The plates are machines from billets of 7075-T6 aluminum. They sell for $90.00 without fittings. The oil lines exit the block to the top and rear. The cleanest installation is done using one 90 degree hose end and one 120 degree hose end, then running the hoses forward along the oil pan rail on the left side of the engine. Greg Solow The Engine Room Santa Cruz, Ca. 831 429-1800 ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg - Lunker Hilyer To: BillDentin at aol.com ; Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Beaten by equipment Oddly, turn 1 is the same as before [so I've ben told - never been there before] as is 2- 7 I think. Logical place to call turn one is currently called turn 12. It was more than a bit confusing as they gave the green at 1 and the checkered before 12 of 13. And on different sides of the track, apparently depending on if the person with the flag was right or left handed I guess. Still flat-out thru 1-3 if I ignored the vibration. Turn 7 [I think] is a 300 degree right that looks great on paper but is actually a bit of a bore. Still a very fast track but not particularly challenging in my opinion - 2 sessions and I knew it as well as the first 2 years on my home track of Sandia. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM On Sep 15, 2008, at 7:27 PM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: Greg... Had you ever raced BRAINERD before? They just re-configured that track, and (in my opinion) lost their signature corner (old Turn ONE, advertised as wide open in ANY car). I've not raced the new track yet, and I am interested in comments concerning the new foot print. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/15/2008 7:57:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lunkercars at earthlink.net writes: Hello all, Beaten by equipment... My previous posting from Brainard quoted the common wisdom "you gotta' finish to win". Well, I was reminded that you gotta' start to finish. Sunday at Brainard shaped up to be what I would call "ideal conditions"... cold, wet and basically miserable enough that only fools/idiots/& the die-hards like me [3 in 1] would dare go out - perfect. Not sure if excessive oil pressure from the 40ish temp on my 20W50 caused it [doubtful] or if it was just it's time, but upon startup for the sunday race the oil cooler chose to rupture in the pits and that was the end of that. Could have by-passed it for the next race but it was canceled due to conditions too perfect for me to even imagine. Oh well - finding out that the top 4 finishers behind me on saturday are all ice racers boosted my ego enough and knowing that they were all gunning for me might not have made sunday quite as enjoyable as saturday. Interesting to note that that although I do buy better that 50% of my perts from Moss, 100% of my failures have been from parts they have supplied. Once again, my cheepo nature has proven to be false economy and bitten me in the butt. Now on to good vibrations and bad vibrations. The Beach Boys told us about the good ones but some aren't and never will be. First time I ever felt the bad one was at Watkins Glen. It may well have existed before but my car has never been on a track that fast. So far as my butt and brain can tell, it doesn't come on until somewhere beyond 100mph. After getting the driveshaft straightened last week I thought I had surely got to the problem. First couple sessions at Brainard felt good but that proved to be a combination of wishful thinking and not going fast enough. It's still there. For a time at The Glen and again at Brainard I almost convinced myself that it was 4th gear only but I am now pretty sure that it is only dependent on road speed - i.e., it's felt near redline in 3rd and only gets worse as 4th progresses. Scared the speed right out of me the first time I felt it come on, but after many teeth grinding laps with nothing coming thru the block [convinced it's not engine related], the trans. case, or thru the floor, I've lived with it thru the last two races. Doesn't mean I like it and that combined with a bum oil cooler, moody starter [thanks again Moss Motors] and exorbitant entry fees, will likely keep me from going to Road America. Any Ideas? The drive-shaft straightening didn't seem to do anything. I've run it on 3 different sets of tires and wheels, so that's not it. U-joints are fine [by all appearances], can't find any slop in the trans. output shaft or the diff, input [pinion] shaft nor any run- out on the input shaft flange or axles. Defiantly not coming from the front as it is not transmitted thru the steering wheel. Rear axle bearings seem to be in fine shape. The engine is fresh and in good balance. The trans. is new to me [close ratio in a TR6 case] but no recognized problems from the previous FoT owner. I have given the original, stock, open. 3.70 differential a hard life since it's early retirement but I still can't see how that would figure in. The only unknown is my frozen axle shafts... As part of my recent "freshening", I sent the crank shaft [more on that later], stub axles, front hubs, rear hubs and half shafts to Controlled Thermal Processing [http://metal-wear.com] to be cryogenically frozen [-300f/+300f in a 68 hour process]. Being unknown voodoo, I'm creating a scenario where the axle[s] have a bow in it [them] causing a imbalance, causing the vibration but not detectable from the flange end - not very likely but I'm grasping at straws here [oh yea, I'm still in the mid-west so it must be corn]. Please believe me, at this point I am willing to consider any ideas regardless how far fetched. And maybe one [some] of you know what I'm feeling and have the spot-on answer. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1678 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 9:01 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 18 14:06:50 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:06:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplemental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/2008 11:00:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > Re: Supplimental (sic) oil feed to head > > > Been there, done that. Both without restrictor, and with restrictor (3 different sizes) Generally accepted nowadays as a waste of time and money. Too much oil in the rocker box/valve cover is one result, oil smoke out of the exhaust is another, and a drop in oil pressure, even on a known good low mileage engine is a third. The rocker arms were bushed with oilite phosphor-bronze bushings, at great cost, but they wore out, as did the NOS original Leyland rocker shaft in under 20k miles, even with the oil feed hose - I put it down to poor heat treatment of the shaft. I replaced the rocker arms with Harland-Sharpe Roller Rockers (of mild lift) - this is a road car, and the shaft with a Ted Schumacher supplied tuftrided rocker shaft. After another 20k miles even the tuftrided shaft is just starting to wear, although the roller rockers are fine, and that's without the oil hose! My engine has always sent plenty of oil up to the rocker shaft, even without the oil feed hose. The oil feed hose is where it belongs - in the trash. I have read of similar experiences from many Triumph 6 cylinder owners over a long period of time. L?on YMMV. http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From igofaster at charter.net Thu Sep 18 16:49:57 2008 From: igofaster at charter.net (Bobby Whitehead) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:49:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080918184957.8LDN8.95310.root@mp14> Hey Joe A. hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... Bobby Whitehead From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 18 17:52:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:52:11 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack stickers Message-ID: <2F8E4155.5BDE0C52.00159EE9@cs.com> i remain on the road for several more days...poor planning on my part, but this is jan's retirement trip...but i got away with combining it with the glen. when is hallett? joe a >Hey Joe A. > >hoping I can get a few stickers for Hallet... > > >I know Gary Faqua (sp) was looking for some too.... > > >Bobby Whitehead >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From westerneagleracing at att.net Thu Sep 18 18:21:35 2008 From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 00:21:35 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 01:02:54 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:02:54 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <091920080702.4141.48D34E9E000745DE0000102D22007503300E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> No sooner did I return from the Glen then off we went for a week. Here are my belated comments on Watkins Glen 2008. I enjoyed reading other's comments and experiences. 1. Best car people on the planet drive/race Triumphs. Helpful, knowledgeable, fun, courteuos yet competitive drivers. Kas is a superb individual. Had great racing action with Tony Drews, Bob Kramer and Greg Hilyer in the Triumph event and the final group three race. My good friends were visiting from Geneva, NY and wanted to know why I let the pink car pass me. I explained the car was not pink but a rare TR color called Geranium. 2. The track is outstanding and one I've always wanted to race on since visiting the track with the Bucknell University sports car club for the 1962 thru 64 Gran Prix races. However, I drank far less beer this time. 3. #116 ran well except for a high speed miss over 6000 RPM. Tony Garmey said it had something to do with #116 sharing the trailer from the left coast with the Peyote 4. SVAR is well organized and pleasant to work with. Peter Krause's classroom session on Thursday was very helpful in learning the track 5. The Friday night event through downtown Watkins Glen was fantastic. Really enjoyed the local folks and I had the best navigator--Bill Babcock's much better half. Diane rode with me because the Peyote's passenger seat is taken up by the fuel cell. She was a kick with her leather avaitor hat and goggles. However. I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! DID anyone take an in car video of this greatest of all cruises??? 6. The original owner/driver of my TR4 and his mechanic were out in the countryside Friday evening and thought #116 might have been their car they built and raced in the early 70's as we drove by. Saturday morning they were at the track and were reintroduced to their car. I had them autograph the car and we took lots of photos and I listened to all their stories about racing at Kent, Riverside, Portland, etc. What a treat, except for the part where Rich Kliewer rolled the car at turn six at Pacific Raceways--oh and the engine fire at Portland that sent flames fifteen feet in the air. They have promised me tons of photos and news articles on my TR's early history!! They said seeing the car was like finding a lost son. 7.What a great variety of TR's, 3's, 4's, 6's, 8's, the 250K, Devins, Peyote, Spits, plus the first ever TR production sports car. Did anyone take any vieos of the races and car events? Special thanks to Joe Alexander, Classic Motorsports, Kas, Tony Garmey for keeping #116 in top form, and thanks to Tony for bringing the 250K and Devin and Bill Hart for sharing these two historic TR's with us.Wish Bill could have been with us. Last, thanks to all for honoring Uncle Jack's legacy. John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Fri Sep 19 05:46:56 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:46:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Well like everything else, opinions are going to vary... You can hog a lot of material out of the stock wheel, but it won't be as light as the aluminum. The other side is the cost of the alloy vs lightening the stock. The specific application & budget will usually determine which way to go... HTH Glen -----Original Message----- From: westerneagleracing at att.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 8:21 pm Subject: [Fot] Flywheels FOT, Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened? flywheels on a TR4? Ron Jacobs Western Eagle Racing_______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 06:02:27 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:02:27 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <8CAE8648C8608E8-13F8-5D1@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Steel wheels are light too. They weigh in at 3,9kg. Cheers Chris From henry at henryfrye.com Fri Sep 19 06:23:40 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:23:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! Message-ID: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Hi John, The Reenactment is always a high point of the Watkins Glen weekend, but one of the trickiest pieces of driving you will encounter in your race car. As hard as the organizers try to keep everyone on an even pace, when one sees open road in his race car.. Well, you were there. As we rounded the bend the first time to the Stone Bridge the cars were backed up about 5 deep! I saw all the tire smoke in my mirror. Thanks for not tagging me! And sorry 'bout the tires!!! We spent a few minutes before the run removing the grime off the racer. If only I realized sooner how effective a strategy this was at blinding my opposition... Henry Frye Via wireless handheld device -----Original Message----- From: John James Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen!! I almost rear ended Henry Frye just before the stone bridge when he quickly slowed down. Must have been waiving to the crowd or blinded by the yellow paint job. Flat spotted my front tires!! From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 07:40:08 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:40:08 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris From s.janzen at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 10:33:01 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:33:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Tee Shirts, etc Message-ID: We're going to take post event orders for another run of these tee shirts, hats and denim shirts, as we did not have enough for people who saw them at the Glen and wanted one. Also, if you know of any of your non-FOT fellow Triumph owners who wanted one of the Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts, please pass this along to them and have them email me. Choices are: -Triumphs at the Glen tee shirts are in grey, all sizes, with the illustration of all of the Triumph sports cars racing past the checkered flag. Shirts are $15, $16.50 for 2XL, $18 for 3XL. there's a black rectangle with Jack Drews' name and dates on the left sleeve. -Baseball caps in denim or khaki, Kastner Cup and Triumph shield and laurels embroidered on the front and Watkins Glen '08 and Friends of Triumph on the back. $16 -Denim or khaki long sleeve button down shirts, with the Triumph shield/laurels embroidered on the right breast and the words "Kastner Cup" above and "Watkins Glen '08" and "Friends of Triumph" below. $30 all sizes Please email me with orders. If you did not get to see the tee shirts, let me know and we can email you the graphic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Fri Sep 19 10:53:40 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:53:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From greenman62 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 11:10:49 2008 From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:10:49 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIII In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish I could be there... I will be in spirit. All the best! Greg PetrolatiGreg Petrolati Lafayette, Oregon That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory... From: BillDentin at aol.comDate: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:58:44 -0400To: fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival XXIIIAmici...In about an hour, the Beady Eye VINTAGE TRIUMPH Racing Team (in all its glory) leaves for Road America and the XXIII version of VSCDA's Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival. We've been at all of them.A second Pace Lap has been added to the Race Group 2 Feature Race on Sunday morning. The first Pace Lap will be run as a Tribute and Memorial to Uncle Jack Drews. It will be our version of a 'Missing Man' lap. On the first lap, the Pace Car will slow coming out of Canada Corner to collect the field. The #3 post position (and all others behind in that row) will drop back one row, leaving the #3 post position (driver's right, second row) vacant. The Pace Car will maintain a 50 mph (+/-) pace up the front straight and past the flag bridge with that #3 post position spot vacant. When the field gets to Turn ONE, they will spread out again and complete a traditional Pace Lap and the start of the race.While we (the FOT) would probably lobby to hold the #1 position vacant to honor Uncle Jack (he certainly deserves that), a majority felt holding the #3 position open will be more visually effective. Regardless, I hope it goes well and we'll do it to honor Jack Drews.Bill Dentinger**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fasttrs at mindspring.com Fri Sep 19 12:30:57 2008 From: fasttrs at mindspring.com (Mike Munson) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Message-ID: <18704321.1221849057570.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Little Sam would love one of those! I'm sure Mom wouldn't let him though, he might run into her antique furniture and leave tire marks on her walls. Mike -----Original Message----- >From: Susan Kahler >Sent: Sep 19, 2008 12:53 PM >To: Friends of Triumph >Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > >Try this!: >http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > >Susan :) > >-- >** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From hottr6 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 12:31:03 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Ron Jacobs asked: > Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? We have discussed this at length. Search the archives. Bottom line: Aluminum is too soft. Lightened iron should only be used with a scatter shield. Shane Ingate in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Fri Sep 19 13:24:56 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... References: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: <002901c91a8d$66ae4e20$0300a8c0@Desktop> Hey now that looks good for autoX Marty you need to order this ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchair-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:41:52 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:41:52 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:43:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:43:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 14:55:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:55:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <002d01c91a6b$498beea0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: It is the ADAC classic race. 400km cut in two slices.....200km Saturday, 200km Sunday.....and 2 hours practice on Friday.... All in all more than 600km at this weekend. I stay in tent....as clubracers should do ;-) I would like to compete in a modern car race too but that is stretching my budget too far. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Johns [mailto:rjohns at woh.rr.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 17:21 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Boy do you have my attention and curiosity. How did you get located and arraigned to run this 400 km on my old stomping grounds. I have a very good friend that runs the 24 hr. Last drive was in an M3. Usually is Porsche. I broke in on the old course. You should have seen it. My period was 54, 55, & 56. I have been back a couple times and toured in a rental car. What a change, from the old original course. Where are you staying or planning to stay? Think of Daun. Bob Johns ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:40 AM Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:44:01 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:44:01 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> Message-ID: I discussed a lot this numbers with the manufacturer but he said, if it doesn't work he will eat his hat and will send me a new set of pistons. The pistons are custom made from Mahle. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Kramer, Robert [mailto:RKramer at rdoequipment.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:08 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I don't have the numbers here with me but 0.0024 seems like a prescription for scuffed pistons. I think I am running 0.004 and numbers 1 through 3 and 0.005 on number 4. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:42 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You are not alone in thinking: How I ever build an engine. When I first did an engine I had nearly no knowledge about engines but they last then. Now, trying to build the engine very precise I have more and more trouble. The next troublesome thing that could arise is scuffed pistons. I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. I hope that will work but he said I could run the pistons with half the clearance if I would like. His words in Gods ears. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 16:42 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race This has been a bad year for us too, we have discovered new and interesting ways to destroy Spitfire engines. We blew up 3 engines. 1. seized gudgeon pin after several races 2. over heated number four cylinder resulting in a broken valve destroying a head and block 3. center main was wiped out with no apparent reason. It has been a tough year and I am beginning to think I don't know how to build an engine after almost 50 years of hot rodding cars. On Sep 19, 2008, at 8:40 AM, MadMarx wrote: > After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last > time this > season to prepare my car. > Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the > engine > will last the 400 km race. > New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. > On the old parts side: > Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some > other things > that can prevent me from racing. > > I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track > could be > jumping around all the time. > > Cheers > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 15:48:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:48:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 22:49 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I think that Germany is very much like Wisconsin, where I live here in the US (or perhaps Wisconsin is like Germany). The longest races I've done here are 100 miles (162km or so). I don't need to stop for a bathroom break during those, but I think I'd need to make a stop in a race two and a half times that long. Or perhaps have a tube out of the bottom of the car. Maybe the fact that Germany and Wisconsin have such similar weather is why so many Germans moved here to Wisconsin over the years.... Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 3:44 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The race is in Germany.....a cold wet country. Not even the Romans liked it here. So I don't think I need a bathroom.....maybe a hot shower to warm up after. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 15:50 An: MadMarx Betreff: RE: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race 400km!! Do you get a bathroom break?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MadMarx Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 8:40 AM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race After killing my engine 4 times this year I try for the very last time this season to prepare my car. Most of the engine internals are never raced parts. Hopefully the engine will last the 400 km race. New valves, new pistons, new rods, new crank, new block. On the old parts side: Camshaft, pushrods, rockers and shaft, tappets, chain, and some other things that can prevent me from racing. I'm really excited to enter competition on this difficult track could be jumping around all the time. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lang at isis.mit.edu Fri Sep 19 15:55:18 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tr4racing at googlemail.com Fri Sep 19 16:30:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:30:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: So if I get you right then Road America is in Wisconsin? Okay THEN I KNOW where Wisconsin is. RA is on my "to race " list. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert Lang [mailto:lang at isis.mit.edu] Gesendet: Freitag, 19. September 2008 23:55 An: MadMarx Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, MadMarx wrote: > It is the first time I'm in a long race. We have chance to fill up fuel. > On the other hand....if I'm in need for a toilet, maybe it boost speed? > > I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of > some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). It's real pretty there. I can almost taste the bratwurst just thinking about it. Road America is one of the best road race circuits in the US in terms of length and terrain, IMHO. It's not the 'Ring, but it's pretty kool in it's own right. Wisconsin is pretty much the northern middle of the country (bordered by Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota). The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Fri Sep 19 16:34:10 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:34:10 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Robert Lang: In answer to MadMarx' comment that: >> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the location of >> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. Bob Lang suggested: > Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. Jim Hill From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 19 18:03:09 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:03:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 01:46:02 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:46:02 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 02:05:22 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:05:22 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). What are rolling hills? The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sat Sep 20 07:14:44 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:14:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:30:35 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:30:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Since I need to find them allfor Amelia Island and the Mitty, I guess, by default, I have become the unoffical, offical registrar of Group 44 and Kastner Brody cars. Please let me know if you know where any and all of these cars are, how many were built. Might as well find teh replicas too, so we can at least know what's what. I guess I need to keep track of the MGs and Jags as well. I understand there is a GT6 in the Pittsburgh area. Real? Replica? Who owns it? Also understand the Kastner /Brophy TR6 is in the midwest and being restored. Can't wait to reunite all these factory TR6s and GT6s next year. Thanks for all your help. See you at the Mitty in May. On another note, we got our Group 44 GT6 stripped all the way to a bare shell yesterday and was very pleased to find original white paint underneath the dash. Also managed to get the Group 44 and British Leyland contingency stickers off the car without damaging them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 07:34:14 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:34:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 07:39:38 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:39:38 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 08:55:21 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:55:21 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of the story calls his reputation into review!! Jonmac ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > >> >> >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). >> >> What are rolling hills? >> >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. >> >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From andre at gt6.ca Sat Sep 20 09:15:45 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:15:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Message-ID: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 09:32:29 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:32:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Aircraft Spruce link In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAE94D397EED54-14A4-21A6@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> They have everything you need... link- http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/pilotrelief.php The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Sep 20 09:51:42 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:51:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080920155143.CVQX846.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall> > You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? > I never thought that German words would find their way to the > English language. We do have a few, although it might be more accurate to say the "American" language. Local grocery also carries knockwurst and of course sauerkraut to go on top. "Der Weinerschnitzel" is even a popular fast food chain (that AFAIK does not actually serve weiner schnitzel ). Randall From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 20 10:24:35 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:24:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? J.R. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:48:05 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:48:05 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com> <1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> Message-ID: RA is on my "to race list" but I can't afford to bring my car over. Renting a car might be an solution but will be difficult as my setup is not usual for Triumphs. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jerry Barr [mailto:jerrybarr at charter.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 14:06 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Wisconsin has large immigrant populations of German, Polish, Norwegian, and Belgian people. Many words from these immigrants have made it in to the Wisconsin English language. You have to come over and race with us at Elkhart Lake. I would love to race with you. On Sep 20, 2008, at 2:46 AM, Mad-Marx wrote: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sat Sep 20 16:55:15 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:55:15 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <887142.54299.qm@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I?m afraid of scuffing too but today I got the manufacturer on the phone twice (different people) and they told me, stay with set clearance. I asked them why their pistons don?t expand that much. Answer: Less expanding aluminum, special shaped for well fitting. They are more oval. They are made from Mahle. They do F1 pistons also and DTM cars pistons. I hope they should know. Von: tom strange [mailto:tstrange at sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 16:02 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Good morning, I'm curious who are you getting pistons from? I get mine from JE (I use the regular JE import car piston for the spit, not the fancy JE Pros) They call a clearance something like this for street use, and say you can run up to 4 or .0045 for a race application. I always hone to .0055 to .006 clearance and have never had a piston problem. You do get some scuffing with that much clearance, but it has never been a problem. Running them too tight can be a problem. I have had several engine problems over the years but never related to the pistons. (mostly valve issues due to me insisting on designing my own cam profiles and valve train in hopes of engineering myself to the back of the pack ;>) Tom http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm #4 white spitfire --- On Fri, 9/19/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 3:41 PM I have ordered new forged pistons and the manufacturer insists on 0.0024 piston to wall clearance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sat Sep 20 18:11:15 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:11:15 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: <03bb01c91b7e$911017b0$0201a8c0@Bevan> > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? Very likely. Of all the pix I've seen of Gatso, I've never seen one of him smiling. Maybe he tried to 'persevere' with the device and it never worked as anticipated? Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 18:24:53 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:24:53 -0700 Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: I just got my copy in today's mail and found that there is a nice article on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Sat Sep 20 20:36:13 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:36:13 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/2008 12:25:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrherrera90 at hotmail.com writes: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team Was it Gastonides? ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjohns at woh.rr.com Sat Sep 20 20:38:00 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:38:00 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <037501c91b30$e8662c00$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <003301c91b93$106d22a0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> I'll add my two cents, (Phennig). For what it is worth, the 1957 Sebring Team did not have any accommodation to relieve yourself. I don't know what the 1956 Lemans cars had, I saw them there but did not notice any added equipment for the purpose. The 1957 Factory cars at Sebring, if you are a TR history buff, were the 1956 Alpine Rally cars rebuilt. No significant modifications we introduced that I could observe. The driving shifts were three hours at Sebring and I think most would have not trouble with that length of time. I still drive 4 to 5 hours between stops and that is at age 76. Bob Johns - Original Message ----- From: "John Macartney" To: "'Robert Lang'" ; "MadMarx" ; "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > I've forwarded this to Paul Richardson, Ken's son. No doubt Paul will be able to confirm or deny the > story. He has a raft of like anecdotes - most of which he declines to publish in case the nature of > the story calls his reputation into review!! > > Jonmac > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Elliott" <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: "MadMarx" ; "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was > > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, > > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MadMarx" > > To: "'Robert Lang'" > > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > >> > >> > >> Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > >> > >> What are rolling hills? > >> > >> The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > >> for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > >> > >> In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > >> if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> Fot mailing list > >> Fot at autox.team.net > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:15:21 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:15:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for people to fake stuff. By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of all the cars and what happened to them. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GRMTim at aol.com Sat Sep 20 21:39:14 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:39:14 EDT Subject: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars Message-ID: Kas, That's an interesting perspective, as to me all this stuff is my business. The problem with doing what you love, is it all starts to blend together and then it is difficult to know when to stop. Today I cut the cage out of the GT6. Problem was, that even if it wasn't my job to cut that cage out and get that car done for the Mitty, I still would have done the same thing today! I need to know where all these cars are to invite them to Amelia and the Mitty, but I am also curious and want to know how many were built and where they are. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Sat Sep 20 21:57:52 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:57:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 20 22:04:26 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:04:26 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <9D526A59517C4EA79F4C32F1B081A5AE@newcomputer> Arizona and a Spit! That is good enough for me. Second! Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of greg Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:58 PM To: FOT LIST Subject: [Fot] Nomination Group, I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and encouragement. Seconds? Thanks, Greg Lund _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 21 00:16:43 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:16:43 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> References: <48D5C640.6040602@cyberspeedway.net> Message-ID: <20080921061858.NBJH6526.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> Greg, What's his email address - is it Dotts46 at aol.com (guessing from an email from Gil Jackson with the local Vintage group? I'll send him a welcome email from DCTRA and add him to our list too. At 08:57 PM 9/20/2008, greg wrote: >Group, > I would like to nominate Dan Otts from Sedona, AZ. Dan was at our >driver's school today with a really nice '65 Spitfire 1147 painted arles >blue (Rover color). He expects to run vintage groups. The car is very >well prepped and apparenty ran in the Southern Pacific Division SCCA >from Las Vegas. Dan is a great guy who could use all your advice and >encouragement. Seconds? >Thanks, >Greg Lund >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Sun Sep 21 05:17:30 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:17:30 +0100 Subject: [Fot] Fw: Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race - a *DEFINITIVE REPLY* from (almost) the horse's mouth :) Message-ID: <041401c91bdb$a39e7b30$0201a8c0@Bevan> Friends On the continuing saga of *how long can you last at the wheel?* I received a reply from Paul Richardson on this subject which is clearly exercising the minds of many :) Paul's reply surely generates further questions? 1. How could anyone safely and accurately *aim* into a Mayflower dipstick tube while changing gear and having to steer safely - anywhere on the Mille Miglia? 2. How fast is fast to guarantee 'blow back'? 3. How slow is slow to avoid embarrassment? 4. Anyone care to put these claims to the test and report their findings? Jonmac > Hi John > It's amazing how stories get dressed up. The facts are that the said 'pee > tube' was the idea of my fathers for the Mille Miglia road race of 1954. > The tube was made at the factory prior to the race by experimental engineer > Ray Henderson who adapted a Triumph Mayflower dip stick guide (funnel > shaped) for the business end. It is true that the pee tube had a tendency > to 'blow back' somewhat when the TR was at high speed, so it was only used > on slower sections. I've used a quote from dear old Ray Henderson about the > pee tube in an article I wrote for one of the TR mags or one of Frederic > Reydellet's books. I'll forward it when I find it. > Best wishes to all Paul From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 21 06:17:10 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: <48D3D914.607@141.com> Message-ID: If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Susan Kahler Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... Try this!: http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai r-p557073.html Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 21 06:40:19 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:40:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D640B3.70302@141.com> You would save $58, 135.20! Now THAT'S a deal! ;) Susan :) Doug Mitchell wrote: > If I use the code, can I get the 15% discount? > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On > Behalf Of Susan Kahler > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 12:54 PM > To: Friends of Triumph > Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC: When you feel you are too old for racecars... > > > Try this!: > http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchairs-c540/jet-powered-concept-wheelchai > r-p557073.html > > Susan :) > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1682 - Release Date: 9/20/2008 10:24 AM > -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From GRMTim at aol.com Sun Sep 21 07:15:56 2008 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:15:56 EDT Subject: [Fot] Kas' reply to Tim (sorry, forgot to include this in my letter) Message-ID: In a message dated 9/20/08 11:25:01 PM, kaskas at cox.net writes: > You are a pretty cool guy to take away from your business and take on these > things.? I laud you for it Tim. (no, it will not be be me) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GRMTim at aol.com > To: Group44TR7 at aol.com ; FOT at autox.team.net > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Calling all Group 44 and Kastner/Brody cars > > I think finding them all is a good idea, the team cars, the cars they sold > to privateers and all the fakes, tribute cars and cars made up of other cars. > The more we know, the better. The Sheby club has done a great job of keeping > track of tehir cars and it helps the values and really makes it hard for > people to fake stuff. > > By the way, if anybody else (that doesn't have two cars magazines to run and > a GT6 to completely restore in six months) wants to take on this, shall we > call it factory race car registry project, step right up, please! > > I wasn't hungry for something else to do, just wanted to get a real list of > all the cars and what happened to them. > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 > > > In a message dated 9/20/08 1:11:59 PM, Group44TR7 writes: > > > Tim > ????As you probably already know, there was only one Group 44 TR7. > ? > ????Are you going to seek out the Group 44 constructed racecars ? > ? > Cary > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billsohl at optonline.net Sun Sep 21 07:39:25 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:39:25 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the trip to the Glen. Bill Sohl ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ ;) A. 2008/9/20 ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? -----Original Message----- From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back then, they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'Robert Lang'" Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > What are rolling hills? > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier legs > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my seat, and > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:04 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:04 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: Yes that is Kit indeed, fascinating guy to talk to, but I don't think he made the run to the Glen. I really should sit him down and do an interview with him this yr. A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 21 07:46:33 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:46:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> References: <8CAE93CB4D94285-14A4-1D5F@webmail-md07.sysops.aol.com> <4362ae390809200639u45aaba3n9dd17640da4dc7c3@mail.gmail.com> <0BED7856A6FF46818F1A19F18FF41F50@SohlPC> Message-ID: http://www.ovtc.net/1954alpinerally/index.html A. On 21-Sep-08, at 9:39 AM, Bill Sohl wrote: > Might it be Kit Heathcote? He lives in Canada and perhaps made the > trip to the Glen. > > Bill Sohl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Rousseau > To: FOT > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > Speaking of TR2 legends, anyone recognize this fine gentlemen... > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/slides/DSCN3628.JPG > > http://www.ovtc.net/08/0527/ > > ;) > > A. > > > 2008/9/20 > ... sounds like the pilots "piss tube" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> > To: MadMarx ; 'Robert Lang' > > Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 9:14 am > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works > TR2 > team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the > race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". > During the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel > was > full, the aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Back > then, > they didn't wear full racing helmets, but goggles. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: "'Robert Lang'" > Cc: "'Friends of Triumph'" > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > > > > > > Rolling hills (drumlins and kettle morraine). > > > > What are rolling hills? > > > > The long distance off road guys have bags that they strap to thier > legs > > for the long races. Great idea if you're over 50. > > > > In emergency case.....I have, a soaky overall, drain holes in my > seat, and > > if I flood my car I pull out the plug of the jack stand. :-) > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Fot mailing list > > Fot at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 21 09:56:39 2008 From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 11:56:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stutzmans at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 12:42:41 2008 From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:42:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: Message-ID: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> accd. to Graham Robson in " The Works Triumphs" The pee tube was in the 1954 Mille Miglia TR2. Gatso left his mark at the check points. Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: John Herrera To: herald948 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race ==AM== ...or possibly Kit Heathcote? I've heard the same story, but I don't remember where. However, having met and listened to both Ken Richardson and Kit Heathcote at past VTR Conventions, it might well have been directly from one of them? --Andy Mace I think I heard it from Bill Piggott who was the ahfta dinnah speakah at a TRA National Meet banquet. He heard it from Ken Richardson. Don Elliott was there too, maybe at my table. After the cash bar and too much banquet food my recollection may be a bit imprecise, but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Johnher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 13:49:39 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:49:39 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> References: <007201c91c19$d4a34600$c80aa8c0@D9DGQM31> Message-ID: It is very interesting that the discussion left the car specific side and went on to driver issues. As I said years earlier: Driver tuning makes you fast ..in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Sorry for my incomplete English. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cak at dimebank.com Sun Sep 21 14:11:00 2008 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:11:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D6AA54.10000@dimebank.com> > but seem to remember now that the episode took place during the Mille Miglia as Johnmac forwarded. Wait ... you mean Triumph competed in the Mille Miglia? I never realized that they counted as eligible for the Mille Miglia Storica (or whatever they've changed the name to this year)... From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sun Sep 21 14:53:43 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:53:43 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill From tr4racing at googlemail.com Sun Sep 21 15:54:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:54:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Sun Sep 21 18:07:37 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <842915.78645.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring?over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - --- On Sun, 9/21/08, MadMarx wrote: From: MadMarx Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com, "'Friends of Triumph'" Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 4:54 PM They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Sun Sep 21 20:17:23 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:17:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A0 2D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> Message-ID: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I run. I think ARE sells them. - Tony Drews At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: >FOT, >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? >Ron Jacobs >Western Eagle Racing > >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 21 20:21:59 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:21:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Sun Sep 21 23:20:47 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:20:47 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? Thanks, John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Mon Sep 22 00:13:17 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:13:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Message-ID: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI From elkhorn at core.com Mon Sep 22 04:17:16 2008 From: elkhorn at core.com (elkhorn at core.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: <5412.198.208.159.17.1222078636.squirrel@newmail.core.com> ?????? I would like more info on ARE. ?????????????????????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 04:38:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the XXXXing stewards (?) decision... Glen -----Original Message----- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com To: 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_mosley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 05:45:07 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:45:07 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Message-ID: <092220081145.15395.48D78543000A7B4B00003C232207021573970A9D010507@comcast.net> -------------- Original message -------------- From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. Do I have a second?? How can Tony not already haven been a FOT???? SECOND! Irv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:21:06 +0000 Size: 646 URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Mon Sep 22 05:47:01 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:47:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0 A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James >#116 >_______________________________________________ >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Fot mailing list >Fot at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From wensley_Tr at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 06:03:02 2008 From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:03:02 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:50:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:50:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] British Motoring Magazine (from Moss) Message-ID: Joe C That is "FEARFUL" with a strong disclaimer on "LEADER". FEARFUL INSTIGATOR.....may be more appropriate. There are some inaccuracies in the article as I failed to get back to author. Just read the parts you like. Joe A > I just got my copy in today?s mail and found that there is a nice article > on Our fearless leader Joe Alexander. > > Joe C. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 06:59:32 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:59:32 EDT Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race Message-ID: And certain other parts from assorted livestock. They even make a special tool to stretch the rubber ring over said organs. Please don't ask how I know these things. Thanks - Ed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- I am from Iowa....I know. Pilots used to have a device called H.E.R.E. Human Element Range Extender. Unknow if ever used in racing applications. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 22 07:06:27 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:06:27 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43239629DCE2427B8E6AA17ED1CF596E@richardiipc> I think it's called a chain. The Japanese use it in their temple architecture to direct water flow by capillary attraction instead of gutters and downspouts. Sidebar: Jan tells me that there is a new device on the market for women so they dont have to squat in the weeds. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klynch_6 at msn.com Mon Sep 22 08:11:28 2008 From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Big Healy wheels Message-ID: A close friend of mine lost his home/garage recently due to fire. He did however, manage to salvage a set of '3000' disc wheels/hubs. (luckily his FV was outside in the trailer) He is located here in E. Colo., e-mail is rmvr53 at aol.com His name is Bill Fleming. Perhaps someone you know may be in need, or like a set? Sorry to bomb the list here this morning, felt it important we help a fellow vintage racer out. Thank You. Kev Lynch GT6 #6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 08:22:38 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Sep 2008, Don Elliott wrote: > The story goes that Ken Richardson or a member of his Triumph Works TR2 team > back in 1953 or '54 pulled out the floor plug for the jack before the race > and set up a funnel and a long hose so he could "use the facilities". During > the race, he tried it (for the first time) and once the funnel was full, the > aerodynamic force blew it all back up into his face. Ya gotta watch those ground effects thingies. They really can blow up in your face. > Back then, they didn't > wear full racing helmets, but goggles. Ya, they were manly men, for sure. >From the video interviwer's manual: when interviewing winners after long races, be sure to hold your breath (or pinch your nose if you're off-camera). :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:01:16 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:01:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> "Tony Garmey" . On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James > >#116 > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 22 09:23:35 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:23:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by equipment"! ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race They really do? Learned something today. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von spyderweb at uwalumni.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. September 2008 22:54 An: 'Friends of Triumph' Betreff: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race MadMarx wrote: > ...in case of endurance race a little special tool might help: > A little rubber ring, mounted at the right place at the driver > prevent him from peeing as long the rubber ring stays there. Be careful with those little rubber rings -- that's what they use to make sheep's tails fall off. Jim Hill _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 09:30:52 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:30:52 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think they'll reverse the decision. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No wager... but I'll be (very) pleasantly suprised if they overturn the > XXXXing stewards (?) decision... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 2:13 am > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -spa-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_mosley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net Mon Sep 22 09:32:28 2008 From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:32:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Welcome new FOT member Message-ID: <48D7BA8C.30400@cyberspeedway.net> Dan, Welcome to the Friends of Triumph. The website is www.fot-racing.com We have a lot of info and support that I am sure you will find helpful. Greg Lund From triosan at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 09:44:07 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:44:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels In-Reply-To: <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> References: <091920080021.13545.48D2F08F0002BD68000034E922243651029B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net> <20080922021736.9DA9318767E@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809220844u2014bd4cte5eb680a3447dbab@mail.gmail.com> I have had good success with the Fidanza aluminum flywheelwith a simple modification. I had the holes enlarged and countersunk to take ARP Insert Washers[200-8563]. These provide a hardened steel support for the bolts and keeps them from enlarging the holes in the flywheel by "walking". You can see a picture of the flywheelwith the inserts and ARPbolts at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/250RebuildShotsFlywheel#5248867166626193810 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Tony Drews wrote: > A number of folks are successful with an aluminum flywheel. Others > have had them work loose, which is bad. They are lighter than a > lightened stock flywheel, and as mentioned, an lightened stock > flywheel requires a scatter shield. Honestly, racing a TR requires a > scatter shield anyway. There are a couple of sources for light > custom made steel flywheels that are as light as the aluminum > flywheel, and none of them have come off so far. That's what I > run. I think ARE sells them. > > - Tony Drews > > At 07:21 PM 9/18/2008, westerneagleracing at att.net wrote: > >FOT, > >Thoughts on aliuminum versus lightened flywheels on a TR4? > >Ron Jacobs > >Western Eagle Racing > > > >_______________________________________________ > >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > >Fot mailing list > >Fot at autox.team.net > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:28:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:28:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: <094BEC18-64C3-4FA2-8B68-773155CF98C9@bnj.com> I suspect so as well, though their timing is monstrous. The hearing is before the Singapore GP, which means Hamilton will have to travel the day before practice if he appears. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Kas Kastner wrote: > Perhaps a bit optimistic because the FIA is what it is, but I think > they'll > reverse the decision. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:38 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:30:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:30:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: References: <20080921155343.rwaorh704kcwk88k@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <8ABEB138-E501-4FE0-A1FA-B03EE7D8D2DC@bnj.com> Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:23 AM, Don Elliott wrote: > Get the ring and hose correct. As Kaz says, "Don't get beat by > equipment"! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MadMarx" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race > > > They really do? > Learned something today. > > > - From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 10:36:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > "Tony Garmey" . > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: > I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for > MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. > > - Tony > > At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: > >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, > >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew > >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very > >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage > Racing. > > > >Do I have a second?? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 22 11:44:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:44:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. Message-ID: Babcock wrote: > Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than > cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. > > When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From riverside at cedar-rapids.net Mon Sep 22 11:57:41 2008 From: riverside at cedar-rapids.net (riverside) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:57:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Flywheels References: Message-ID: <02f801c91cdc$b6946090$32620143@your55e5f9e3d2> Gee, Gary, didn't know you knew what i looked like! Art d. ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: tony at tonydrews.com ; westerneagleracing at att.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Flywheels Tony, that is what I run and you are right ARE sells them. They are almost too pretty to install. Looks more like Art than a car part. Cheers, Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1684 - Release Date: 9/22/2008 6:39 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bill at hartproperties.com Mon Sep 22 12:00:18 2008 From: Bill at hartproperties.com (Bill Hart) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> References: <092220080520.16683.48D72B2F0005B8690000412B22068246930E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> <20080922114715.03C19187652@autox.team.net> <8cbd782d0809220801h53912a9k6c648205de0934ac@mail.gmail.com> <7322F6BC-0B97-47A7-8B34-724ED4D598E6@bnj.com> Message-ID: I second that nomination Bill Hart From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:37 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: fot at autox.team.net; jcjcarrera at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: "Tony Garmey" >. On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Tony Drews > wrote: I definitely second! You'll need to include his e-mail address for MJB to pluck the magic thwanger, tho. - Tony At 12:20 AM 9/22/2008, jcjcarrera at comcast.net wrote: >I'd like to nominate our most recent recipient of the Kastner Cup, >Tony Garmey, to our membership. A gifted mechanic, fabricator, crew >chief, and as displayed at Watkins Glen a few weeks back, very >skilled driver. Tony is a valuable asset to our hobby of Vintage Racing. > >Do I have a second?? > >Thanks, > >John James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 12:24:14 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:24:14 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig > Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK > BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling > Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* FOT > *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM > *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its > the full 45min. > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en > > The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. > > A. > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Mon Sep 22 12:29:34 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <149053.49817.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My neighbor had a Mexican workhand that was faster with a knife than I ever saw on the streets of N.Y. He would sneak up behind the piglet,?grab the hinds, have him flipped over, and the "boys" removed with his folding blade before you could blink. James and I prefered the rubber bands on the larger livestock because we could never get Arthuro to try and grab the bulls by the hind legs. I reckon he'd need a bigger knife. ? Famous quotes: Roy Synder in Jaws; "I think we're gonna need a bigger boat" --- On Mon, 9/22/08, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote: From: N197TR4 at cs.com Subject: [Fot] Was Nurburgring....Now Rubberring....goats and other nonsense. To: Billb at bnj.com, 58tr3a at videotron.ca Cc: fot at autox.team.net Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 12:44 PM Babcock wrote: Nuts too. Considered more humane and less prone to infection than ? cutting, or the more traditional biting. Yes, biting. Ask any Basque. When my pet goat failed to drop his, and became infected, I resorted to a carpet knife. ?The thought of using my teeth never occurred to me. ?I am sure the the goat was happier about this, too. _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harmug at us.ibm.com Mon Sep 22 12:40:40 2008 From: harmug at us.ibm.com (George Harmuth) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Ignition type questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I'm new to the FOT list, I was racing at the Glen Vintage event and a member, (thanks Marty Sukey) talked to me and now I've now discovered a great resource. I've been racing a 63 spitfire for 3 years now in the northeast in mostly with the SCCA Historic Racing Group but this year I bought some slicks and ran regional HP events too. I've been going through the car, freshening things up and getting it as reliable as a 45 year old LBC can be but now I'm at the stage of what to do next. The car's been around forever, it's been a race car since day 1. I heard from a previous owner, Dave Belden who raced it for 20+ years, that the importer made it a race car right off the boat to promote the new Triumph model. As far as I can tell, the first time it's been driven on the street was 2 weeks ago at the Glen during the recreation of the old race. You can see it on the video that was posted here, I'm the car still at the curb on the right as the cars are going through town. I broke a 1/2 shaft universal pulling away from the curb but that's another story. I'm looking at the ignition system, the car (1296 motor) came with a Delco distributor and a Crane Fireball electronic ignition box and Crane coil. One of the groups I race with doesn't allow crank fired systems so I'm forced to keep a distributor set up. I'd like to ask the collective wisdom here what would my best option be? The engine is moderately worked over, revs freely to around 7800-8000 RPM but the cam I have works best from 4500-7200 RPM. I've looked at Pertronix systems, going back to points (Single or Dual?) or keeping the Crane. I also bought a Crane CD box, with rev limiter that is going to be a winter install but I'm not sure if it's worth the electrical draw on the system. My main reason for the CD was the built in Rev limiter and easier starting when the engine is hot. I'm not looking for the ultimate engine package, I'll trade power for reliability (to a point) and running with multiple groups, often on the same weekend, limits me to one set up that will be acceptable to all. Any suggestions on how to keep this puppy sparking? thanks mike Old Fart Racing 63 Spitfire #7 G. Michael Harmuth Software Engineer Automated Material Handling Equipment Engineering Services -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 13:13:48 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:13:48 EDT Subject: [Fot] Flywheels Message-ID: Good One!!! **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:14:13 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:14:13 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM To: 'Friends of Triumph' Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. Time to get your bets down on the outcome. A few hints for the sophisticated punter: ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin term "ex post facto"? ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp a-treatment-115875-20747707/] ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m osley.html] ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. ____________________________________ Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer :-) Jim Hill Madison WI _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From kaskas at cox.net Mon Sep 22 14:37:28 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <4BCC1BA7D09647318C964DBBFD9B90CD@newcomputer> Message-ID: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis-sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_by_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 14:54:37 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:54:37 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spitlist at cox.net Mon Sep 22 15:08:19 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC> <8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web site think that the appeal will not be successful. Joe C. -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way to Singapore. We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of people look stupid... Glen -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of Triumph' Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good guy) in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM > To: 'Friends of Triumph' > Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > > > Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal > hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. > > Time to get your bets down on the outcome. > > A few hints for the sophisticated punter: > > ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. > has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: > "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go > ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin > term "ex post facto"? > > ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the > decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", > made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis -sp > a-treatment-115875-20747707/] > > ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA > president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] > is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b y_m > osley.html] > > ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice > advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that > Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. > ____________________________________ > > Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come > out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules > (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the > most casual observer :-) > > Jim Hill > Madison WI > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 15:20:54 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:20:54 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the giggling. Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do 3 and only did 2. Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: Craig ; FOT Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. So it was an outstanding experience. As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. A. 2008/9/22 Craig Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Rousseau To: FOT Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but its the full 45min. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. A. -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 22 16:06:34 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:06:34 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> References: <20080922011317.21fg3ngc0s8w0css@secure.uwalumni.com> <8CAEAB6796FF605-1798-2C0@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> <133D60FB26314B19BDFFE37D580A4E9D@KasPC> Message-ID: At every drivers briefing they say: Stay between the white lines. Think of if this would have been a race at Monaco where the way is blocked in chicanes - no short cut possible - then Hamilton had to drive through that corner and wouldn't be able to overtake end of the following straight. I still think his move wasn't okay and the punishment is correct. From emanteno at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 17:29:26 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:29:26 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Paging Steve Groh Message-ID: <092220082329.2698.48D82A560002BFBF00000A8A2213539653970A9D010507@comcast.net> Sorry everyone else. Steve, we forgot to exchange email addresses at The Glen. I have some pics of your car. Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Mon Sep 22 18:31:03 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:31:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] The Reenactment Video In-Reply-To: <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <4362ae390809200815r12c67793w2d4ea99135d65ed4@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c91cab$2a7c14d0$0300a8c0@Desktop> <4362ae390809221124o283136fdrbd987ec3a561e3a0@mail.gmail.com> <031c01c91cf9$1c1962f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <4362ae390809221731i568cc91aj205e3ecd0e44b832@mail.gmail.com> Hey nothing wrong there. I swore a fair bit too ;) A. 2008/9/22 WILLIAM TOBIN > > > There were a couple Yee-Haws thrown in for good measure besides the > giggling. > Good time was had by all, even though we were shorted a lap; supposed to do > 3 and only did 2. > Hope everyone at RA had fun over the weekend. > Bill----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andre Rousseau > *To:* Craig ; FOT > *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 2:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] The Reenactment Video > > I'm not sure who was having more fun, Bill or I. > I can tell you I had goose bumps just from the run down from the track. > > So it was an outstanding experience. > > As for the length, not my fault the pace car was slow. > > A. > > 2008/9/22 Craig > >> Andre nice video its a bit long and that's OK >> BUT my question is who is doing al the giggling >> Craig >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andre Rousseau >> *To:* FOT >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 11:15 AM >> *Subject:* [Fot] The Reenactment Video >> >> Well here it is, I'm not happy with the quality from Google video, but >> its the full 45min. >> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646665451812001078&hl=en >> >> The video is from Bill Tobin's TR6 #6. >> >> A. >> >> -- >> Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca >> '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ >> Ottawa, ON, Canada >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Mon Sep 22 18:44:24 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:44:24 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From BillDentin at aol.com Mon Sep 22 19:06:36 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:06:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 19:30:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:30:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com > writes: > > >> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane >> for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. > > > On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. > > I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a > trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) > down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two > seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday > night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and > describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the > rear. Interesting. > > Bill > > PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race > Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control > of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a > stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn > 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken > neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, > courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to > correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been > running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a > really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. > > > ************** > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 19:47:11 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:47:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <48D83BE8.3080205@141.com> Message-ID: <35CBF46BE46848FF95DA688E588F5040@Bud> I am very sorry to hear this news...May God Bless Him... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Kahler" To: "Friends of Triumph" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America > This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: > > ***************************** > > I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America > this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing > community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an > incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell > bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- > right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the > process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run > for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment > point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. > > My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! > > Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a > Hans device let this be a warning. > > Jim Austhof > Red #1 MGB > > ***************************** > > Susan > > -- > ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From lang at isis.mit.edu Mon Sep 22 19:48:19 2008 From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fot] Eastlake 11 Message-ID: Hi, Sad news indeed about the crash and fatality... Stupid question of the day - what's an Eastlake 11? regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang NER/SCCA | This space for rent Solo Chair 2008 TR6 40 F Prepared | Triumph! Voice:781-438-2568 FAX: 617-258-9535 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjohns at woh.rr.com Mon Sep 22 20:00:33 2008 From: rjohns at woh.rr.com (Robert Johns) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:00:33 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? Message-ID: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tr2phill.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 348970 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 20:10:39 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: Message-ID: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visable and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tiedowns. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: BillDentin at aol.com To: susank at 141.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 20:38:16 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:38:16 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Nominations and such Message-ID: <48D85698.5090901@bradakis.com> Okay, I think I've added everyone and am up to date on recent nominations. But I could be wrong, let me know if you didn't get this message. ( Gee, how many times have I said that over the years? ) For those of who who don't know much about this list and Team.Net in general, I'll give a basic rundown. About 20 years ago a small handful of folks interested in various automotive stuff started sharing their passions using what back then was a fairly new and unknown technology, email. As I was working in the Computer Science department at the University of Utah, the 5th site on the net, I agreed to coordinate some things and run a couple of mailing lists. In the intervening years Team.Net grew and grew, with various lists spawning off as traffic got busier and busier. It used to be run from a machine at the U of U, but traffic got a little too high and I ended up moving to a server of my own at home. Back in December of 1996 this FOT list came to be and has been growing ever since. Currently we have close to 300 addresses on the list. I still maintain things as best I can, but remember it is a volunteer thing, I don't get paid for this. I do, however, once or twice a year solicit donations to cover the out of pocket expenses involved with keeping things running. Check out the donate link below if you feel like rewarding me with a cold one for my efforts. Speaking of links below, I'll add in a pointer to Mordy's fot-racing web pages. Again, I think I've gotten all the newbies signed up. If you've nominated someone and they are not yet on the list, let me know. mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 20:57:02 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:57:02 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: > Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we > getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low- percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 21:26:43 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:26:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is winning, at least to me. It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to love. Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to read or write it. Gary Fuqua Classic Sports Cars Branson, MO **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:35:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:35:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> <8cbd782d0809222013j3c7ac687hdfcc163ebfff746c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <091D21E4-FF81-4C68-9D6F-EE9D4563DB9B@bnj.com> It was in turn nine. I didn't see the accident, but from what I've been told his rear end slid out at the entrance to the turn, then hooked up and shot him into the wall. The front of the car is totally flat, as if he had run into an obstruction at 90 degrees, but that couldn't be, both because he's still with us, and because the car wound up down the track about 50 yards on the outside of the track. It was actually a glancing blow, as it has to be in that section of the turn, but taken straight on. The track was drying at the time, the rain had pretty much stopped. By the time group one (my group) went out the track was dry. I started from the back because of some confusion I suspect, and they sent the FV's out first in a split start. They had actually been faster in the rain, but the track was completely dry. I started dead last, was first after two laps, and had a nice run on a very green but predictable surface. Did 1:42 something, about three seconds off usual time, but respectable and Peyote felt wonderful. there just wasn't anyone to play with since Mike Malone wasn't there, Cameron Healy's Pooper had a broken rear spring, and Denny Hatch's Pooper wasn't there. I thought my top speed would be less with the bigger bump in the nose, but I was pushing 7000 RPM at least 200 yards before the turn one kink in the straight, so I had to lift. I think this little bugger will hit 140 with the right rear end, but I'm running a 3.7 now. Anyone know if there's a taller rear gear anywhere? Maybe a 3.5? On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > So sorry to hear about Jeff -- such a great car. What happened? > Wet?? Which wall/turn? > Chuck > > 2008/9/22 Bill Babcock > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toodamnfunky at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:38:10 2008 From: toodamnfunky at comcast.net (Jim Gray) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:38:10 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well said Bill First, my deepest symapathies go out to go out to Dr. Hermons' family and friends. We have lost another of our own regardless of what he drove and how hard he was pushing it. We all have our own measure of " winning " and I can only hope the good doctor was leading in his own way when he went off. By the by, I got my HANS two weeks after we lost Uncle Jack. Jim Gray -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 8:57 PM To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net; susank at 141.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 21:39:55 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:39:55 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:46:25 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:46:25 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I couldn't agree with you more Gary. Everything you said is true, and everyone drives these cars at the limit they choose. But most of the folks I meet in racing--any racing--are trying to go as fast as they can. That means respecting the cars limits and their own limits. But they are still trying to go as fast as they can. The notion of 8/10 is that you go eight tenths as fast as you can. If you were doing that you wouldn't be trying to improve your lap times and you wouldn't say things like "at least for now". There are some people driving 8/10ths. But treating that as the norm is simply not realistic. Believe me, I don't race for trophies. If I did, I'd pick another venue. I know there are people who get on the track to parade their cars. I don't do that. Sounds like you don't either. On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:26 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > As a newbie in the Vintage Racing Arena I'll offer a comment. Yeah, > I get lapped occasionally, never have been several times but I > wouldn't care if I were. Who are we really racing and for what? In > my opinion we race ourselves individually, we race the track and we > race our own personally prepared equipment. Would I like to win? > Sure but I also know my limits and try my best to avoid the red mist > of competition. Been there and done that but many years ago and in > sports that you usually don't have much of a chance to get killed > in. I race to improve my own skills and do my best not to get in > the way of others that I know are much better. At least for now. I > also remind myself that I'm racing equipment that despite my best > efforts to maintain and keep safe is pushing 50 years old. Things > break..... unexpectedly. I like going Mach III with my hair on fire > but not if I'm going to be endangering others. When you win, what > do you get? Points or some $10. Plaque? To me winning is not > always finishing first. First it is finishing, second it is > improving my own lap times, lines in an out of corners and making > some of the best friends I've ever made in my entire life. THAT is > winning, at least to me. > > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race > with a lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. > No, it isn't a parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On > the other hand if I were to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my > feelings one little bit. At least I would be with some of my very > best friends and doing something I have come to love. > > Again just my opinion and probably not worth the time it took to > read or write it. > > Gary Fuqua > Classic Sports Cars > Branson, MO > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Mon Sep 22 22:05:44 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:05:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 21:58:38 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:58:38 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: <30FD7B90-91F1-422E-9B8A-F1229E356512@bnj.com> Good to hear from you buddy. Sorry about your car, glad you're OK. That was a nasty one. Let me know if you need anything. I have a TR4 frame up by my sport court, slowly turning back into iron ore. Yours if you want it. On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:05 PM, quicktr4 wrote: > I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the > hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 > really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very > uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. > when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or > 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i > hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some > device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong > advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent > all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. > Jeff Quick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Babcock > To: BillDentin at aol.com > Cc: Friends of Triumph > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership > > Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game > here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this > weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They > took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The > car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. > Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's > OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty > much wrote off a very nice Alpha. > > We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely > equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who > expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they > basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built > them, what do you think has changed". > > What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of > mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration > date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a > Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. > great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes > your chances. > > Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next > year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, > peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer > cars for fifty years" > > I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, > however, is a tad lumpy. > > On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com >> writes: >> >> >>> I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him >>> long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and >>> anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a >>> little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart >>> Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life >>> this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the >>> winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of >>> walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English >>> Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like >>> Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. >> >> >> On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. >> >> I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a >> trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) >> down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two >> seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday >> night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and >> describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in >> the rear. Interesting. >> >> Bill >> >> PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race >> Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control >> of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a >> stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn >> 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken >> neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, >> courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to >> correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has >> been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a >> really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. >> >> >> ************** >> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >> information, tips and calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Mon Sep 22 22:08:45 2008 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> > > I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at Wendover we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and just wanted a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. Sometimes they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. Touring was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited passing and such. In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking out what they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. What always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, but it didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of them, and they'd go into full chat mode. Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it easy, but when it came down to it they were RACING! mjb. From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 22 22:13:39 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:13:39 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> If you're a racer, you race. Some of my most memorable races have been practice sessions. I've never been on a track with Cameron Healy without a full on race taking place. Ever. I suspect we'd have at it with shopping carts if we ran into each other in Safeway. Undisciplined , I know, but that's the way it goes. The real reason I do most of my setup on a skid pad--no one to chase! On Sep 22, 2008, at 9:08 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> >> I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you >> race > When I was doing the Intermountain Vintage Racing events out at > Wendover > we'd occasionally get some of the serious Utah SCCA racers showing up. > Usually it was because they had done some changes to their car and > just > wanted > a chance to do some tuning, get a feel for the change, whatever. > Sometimes > they'd run in the wheel to wheel group, sometimes the 'Touring' group. > Touring > was just 2 - 3 cars on the course at a time, safely spaced, limited > passing and such. > > In most cases these hot shoes would go out and zip around, checking > out what > they needed to check out like sway bar settings, camber, and so on. > What > always amused me was that that the first lap or two was uneventful, > but it > didn't take long for these guys to see another car a ways ahead of > them, and they'd go into full chat mode. > > Sure, they pulled onto the track with the intention of taking it > easy, but > when it came down to it they were RACING! > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 22:31:02 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:31:02 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Thanks Bill. Not I don't parade mine and I do push it, for me. I just try to be as alert and aware as possible and in my case, not knowing the tracks that well, etc., that means taking it a bit easier and trying to stay out of the way of drivers like yourself who are much more experienced. I still have a blast regardless of where I finish but I will say that is usually not last. Cheers & Motor On!! Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jibjib at att.net Mon Sep 22 22:46:44 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:46:44 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership In-Reply-To: References: <60E046F6-C3F8-4FB8-BBDE-849AC3C90552@bnj.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear about the crash Jeff, but I'm glad you are doing fine. Jack (Think the TR3 at cruise night in Covington) _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM To: Bill Babcock; BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership I had a bad one last weekend including an ambulance ride to the hospital to check me out. in alittle bit wet conditions my tr4 really stepped out on turn in to turn nine at seattle. very uncharicteristic of my car. natural reaction is to catcth the slide. when it did hook up it sent me strait into the wall at about 60 or 70 mph it was a big hit. all the safety gear did its job and yes i hade a hans on. after this our club is concidering making some device manditory. i dont even have a stiff neck. I am now a strong advicator. The car didnt fair so well both front frame rails bent all the way into the oil pan. you can just imagine the rest. Jeff Quick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: BillDentin at aol.com Cc: Friends of Triumph Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nomination for FoT membership Sorry to hear about the fatality. We really are playing a rough game here. We had two bad accidents at the SOVREN Fall Finale this weekend. FOTer Jeff Quick hit the wall straight on in his TR4. They took him off in the ambulance on a back board, but he's okay. The car is completely flat across the nose and about a foot shorter. Hard impact, straight in. Could have been a bad one, I'm glad he's OK. I'm pretty sure Jeff wears a HANS device. Another driver pretty much wrote off a very nice Alpha. We get away with a lot because of all the retrofitted safely equipment, but I've met more than a few old time drivers who expressed amazement that we don't have more fatalities. they basically say "those cars were damned dangerous back when we built them, what do you think has changed". What has changed is the safety gear, and I believe in keeping all of mine as up to date as possible. Fresh belts before the expiration date or when they show any damage or have been "exercised" as with a Corvette shoving one self around a bit, Hans device. Good helmet. great roll cage. Other than that, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Pat's a great guy, it was a pleasure to meet him last year. Next year is Peyote's fiftieth birthday. Big doings planned. T shirts, peyote buttons, and a new motto: "Pissing off drivers with nicer cars for fifty years" I agree, Diane has a fine rear end, in fact a stellar one. Peyote's, however, is a tad lumpy. On Sep 22, 2008, at 11:32 AM, BillDentin at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/22/2008 11:37:23 AM Central Daylight Time, Billb at bnj.com writes: I thought Tony was already a member or I would have nominated him long ago. Not only does he drive the wheels off the TR250K (and anything else he sits in, except his truck which he drives like a little old lady), but he also maintains it, and the Bill Hart Devin, AND John James's TR4, and he brought Peyote back to life this year, and will finish making it far too pretty over the winter. Yes, he's going to replace the "Aluminum foil sack of walnuts" rear end that I carefully fabricated on my $200 English Wheel. Some people have no respect for amateur bodywork. Like Diane for example, who is paying Tony to replace the rear end. On the Peyote? Diane's rear end is fine. I saw Pat Starr at ROAD AMERICA over the week end. He borrowed a trailer and hauled his Morgan (same car he's raced since the 1960s) down to ELVF. He is still a great driver (2:51.892), less than two seconds short of his best lap ever. At the cocktail party Saturday night (Peter Egan spoke) Pat was talking about the Peyote and describing clear plastic spoilers they used to run on the car in the rear. Interesting. Bill PS...Sad to say...there was another fatality in the second Race Group 2 practice session on Friday. Dr. Surjit Hermon lost control of his 1957 Eastgate (LOTUS XI continuation or replica) and hit a stationary Mini Cooper S parked off course near the apex to Turn 13. High speed (80 mph +/-) impact (sideways). Suspected broken neck. I had raced with this guy many times. He was competent, courteous, never aggressive. He apparently lost control, tried to correct, and went sliding sidways into the Mini. The VSCDA has been running vintage racing events for thirty years and never had a really serious accident, much less a fatality. Now two in a month. ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _____ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:10:45 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:10:45 +0200 Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case In-Reply-To: <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> References: <78E092D3DD65456F95727487FAEF3F7A@KasPC><8CAEB0C8F4395D0-12BC-121A@Webmail-mg11.sim.aol.com> <46DC7BCFF7F8472AA7F1D99CBC23B9B1@Bud> Message-ID: To comment this. At the European tracks the flags are good visible (okay - except black flag). The corner workers are close to the track and they have lots of flags to show. I only know of one incident of overtaking at yellow since 2004 in our group. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von RACER BUD Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:40 An: Joe Curry; fubog1 at aol.com; kaskas at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case Hello Gang...I tried to send this message directly but it bounced back a couple of times.... In Vintage Racing...In Essence...1. There are Waaay too many incidents of passing/not seeing the yellow flag..... 2. There are Way too many Vintage race drivers who appear to be very much out of condition physically... How do they get their license/medical card?..... We have argued for many years that We(Race Drivers) are Athletes..we Are Athletes!...We need to be FIT Athletes.....or....Not Race! Racer Bud ..Racing since 1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Curry" To: ; ; ; Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > For What it's worth, over 2/3 of the peopled polled on the Official F1 Web > site think that the appeal will not be successful. > > Joe C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fubog1 at aol.com [mailto:fubog1 at aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:55 PM > To: kaskas at cox.net; spitlist at cox.net; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; > fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > Well they spent over 5 hours in the kangaroo court today, on their way > to Singapore. > We'll know tomorrow. If it stands, it's sure going to make a lot of > people look stupid... > Glen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kas Kastner > To: Joe Curry ; spyderweb at uwalumni.com; 'Friends of > Triumph' > Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 4:37 pm > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > If the decision stands it will certainly put Charlie Whiting ( a good > guy) > in a very bad light having already okayed the pass. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Curry" > To: ; "'Friends of Triumph'" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] The Hamilton Case > > >> No money on it, but I predict that the decision will stand. >> >> Joe C. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On >> Behalf Of spyderweb at uwalumni.com >> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:13 PM >> To: 'Friends of Triumph' >> Subject: [Fot] The Hamilton Case >> >> >> >> Well Ladies and Gents, today is the day of the Hamilton/McLaren appeal >> hearing, with the decision to be announced on Tuesday. >> >> Time to get your bets down on the outcome. >> >> A few hints for the sophisticated punter: >> >> ~ Since the initial decision and the following uproar, the F.I.A. >> has issued a "clarification" of the rules, to the effect that: >> "Drivers have to wait until the next corner to overtake if they go >> ahead over a chicane." Does everyone remember the meaning of the Latin >> term "ex post facto"? >> >> ~ Sir Stirling has issued a statement to the effect that the >> decision to penalize Hamilton was "disgraceful" and "a load of crap", >> made by "clueless" stewards who "know they are wrong". >> > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-sport/2008/09/22/stirling-slams-lewis > -sp >> a-treatment-115875-20747707/] >> >> ~ Asked for comment on the dispute and the upcoming hearing, FIA >> president Max Mosley said, "My immediate reaction was this [situation] >> is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time." >> > [http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/168911-0/bias_claims_rubbished_b > y_m >> osley.html] >> >> ~ And don't forget that (allegedly) the race director twice >> advised McLaren by radio immediately after the incident that >> Hamilton's actions were proper and sufficient. >> ____________________________________ >> >> Wagers anyone? Keep in mind that the issue is how the APPEAL will come >> out -- NOT whether Hamilton's actions were proper under the rules >> (since the answer to that question is intuitively obvious to even the >> most casual observer :-) >> >> Jim Hill >> Madison WI >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:12:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:12:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> Message-ID: I'm happy! If I ever make my way to USA I won't starve because I always can order a Bratwurst. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: David Kettler [mailto:dkettler at powercom.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. September 2008 05:43 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race I was raised in Sheboygan, Wisconsin which is the Bratwurst capital of the world. It's also not far from Road America. Dave Kettler ----- Original Message ----- From: "MadMarx" To: "'FOT'" Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race You call Bratwurst Bratwurst in USA? I never thought that German words would find their way to the English language. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Steven Belfer Gesendet: Samstag, 20. September 2008 02:03 An: FOT Betreff: Re: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In addition to delicious Bratwurst, Road America also has both apple and blueberry pie baked by actual grandmas. I never got into the strawberry rhubarb pie but it's there too. ~Steve. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:34 PM, spyderweb at uwalumni.com wrote: > > > Quoth Robert Lang: > > In answer to MadMarx' comment that: > >>> I must confess, I don't even know where Wisconsin is. I know the >>> location of >>> some of the more known states but Wisconsin is not on my brain. > > Bob Lang suggested: > >> Think CORN, CHEESE, COWS and Sausage. > > Yeah, we've got all that...But if you're coming from Europe, it might > be easier to just drive to Chicago and hang a right. Ya can't miss it. > > Jim Hill > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 23 01:16:33 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:16:33 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America In-Reply-To: <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> <48D86BCD.7020704@bradakis.com> <3B04A03A-A816-47D1-B358-25A19CBE0B5D@bnj.com> Message-ID: Even driving at 8/10 is no insurance of having a crash. Things can break, other drivers can bring you in trouble. I?m facing to race on the N?rburgring this weekend, the most unforgiving track you can imagine with an average speed of 85-90 mph. Losing control there will hurt, maybe kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 07:49:53 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:49:53 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: In a message dated 09/22/2008 10:27:52 PM Central Daylight Time, GSFuqua1 at aol.com writes: > It is NOT my intention to be contentious or argumentative but I race with a > lot of people too and many of them feel the same as I do. No, it isn't a > parade but is sure isn't worth dying for either. On the other hand if I were > to go out that way it wouldn't hurt my feelings one little bit. At least I > would be with some of my very best friends and doing something I have come to > love. > Good for you Gary. All good points. As a point of reference, let me add some info to my use of 'high speed parade'. It is a variation of a quote from Bob Tullius, who as Honorary Grand Marshall at an early ELVF, was asked what he thought about 'vintage racing'. He stepped on our toes and said something to the effect of...I don't think you should do it, and if you do, it should be more like a 'high speed parade' instead of real racing. Kind of hurt our feelings when he said it, but clearly he was influenced by his background, the risk involved, and safety issues. In the same question and answer period he was asked his favorite circuit after running at so many venues. I was surprised he said, "Brainerd". When asked why, again safety was the issue. He said, "Brainerd, while fast, is safe and forgiving." Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 08:40:36 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:40:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com Tue Sep 23 08:42:17 2008 From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:42:17 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB277E@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> Is this the FIA equivalent of saying "Well, if you don't know, I'm certainly NOT going to tell you!" ?? Scott -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of fubog1 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:41 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' decision had been _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 23 08:52:52 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> In essence, they decided not to decide the case. "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the appeal submitted by McLaren." The text of the "opinion" can be found at: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 JR Hill Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > decision had been From horizonracing at msn.com Tue Sep 23 09:36:57 2008 From: horizonracing at msn.com (Tony and Annie Garmey) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !!> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500> From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com> To: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied> > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case.> > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren."> > The text of the "opinion" can be found at:> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793> > JR Hill> > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com:> > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday> > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton> > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner.> > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a> > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible.> > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix> > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather> > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards'> > decision had been> > > _______________________________________________> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html> > http://www.fot-racing.com> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vintage.racer at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 10:56:19 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:56:19 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> Message-ID: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was "this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR's 'debris on the track yellow flag', ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race." Gary 62 TR4 From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 11:12:14 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:12:14 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Message-ID: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Tue Sep 23 11:28:32 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:28:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> References: <8CAEBA17984BB5C-558-69A@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> <20080923095252.k43qo5p7kkko88k4@secure.uwalumni.com> <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: Ah, well, can't get too wrapped up in the politics and economics of the thing. I just watch the races. It's been a great year for that. On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Gary Horstkorta wrote: > I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well > connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA > penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow > flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the > points race.? > > Gary > 62 TR4 > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM > To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > > > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > To: fot at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 13:30:28 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:30:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <092320081712.3463.48D9236E00094E4800000D872200758942970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c91db2$d7be0ab0$b1191718@computer> They would be doing their best to make a dollar out of the deal for themselves. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of emanteno at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:12 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied Wonder what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be saying right now if Hamilton was a Yank? ;-) -------------- Original message -------------- From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunda y's Si ngapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 23 14:50:13 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied In-Reply-To: <002701c91d9d$4f01f890$ed05e9b0$@racer@comcast.net> Message-ID: <350468.58985.qm@web81203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is your friend insinuating that NASCAR uses the yellow flag to make races tighter or "fix" races? My GOD! That's blasphemy! At least we still have WWF wrestling; that's real. --- On Tue, 9/23/08, Gary Horstkorta wrote: From: Gary Horstkorta Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied To: "'Tony and Annie Garmey'" , spyderweb at uwalumni.com, fot at autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008, 11:56 AM I have a friend who was a former factory F1 driver and is still well connected within the F1 community and his comment was ?this FIA penalty is the equivalent of NASCAR?s ?debris on the track yellow flag?, ie, keeping the competition close to maintain interest in the points race.? ? Gary 62 TR4 ? From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:37 AM To: spyderweb at uwalumni.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied ? FIA = Ferrari international automoblie !! > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:52:52 -0500 > From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Hamilton appeal denied > > > > In essence, they decided not to decide the case. > > "it follows that there is no need to examine the substance of the > appeal submitted by McLaren." > > The text of the "opinion" can be found at: > http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70793 > > JR Hill > > Quoth fubog1 at aol.com: > > > LONDON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - A Formula One appeal court on Tuesday > > rejected McLaren's bid to have championship leader Lewis Hamilton > > reinstated as Belgian Grand Prix winner. > > The governing International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a > > statement the judges had deemed the appeal inadmissible. > > The decision meant Hamilton will start Sunday's Singapore Grand Prix > > with a one-point lead over Ferrari's Brazilian Felipe Massa, rather > > than the seven points he would have had if the Belgian stewards' > > decision had been > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 15:04:50 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:04:50 EDT Subject: [Fot] Crank Scraper Orders-Manufacturing Status Message-ID: FoT For those you have crank scraper orders: I contacted I-J today and asked for a schedule. We all know that there have been delays. I have not cashed any checks sent to me, nor has I-J billed me beyond some material costs. If you have any urgencies, I will forward your schedule concerns. If you wish to change your order, please advise. Kevin puts a lot of time and thought and detail into these assemblies. (Jack & I decided that we could never follow his act) There is also an issue of a medical surgery that is pending, although it is not being used as an "excuse". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ Here is what I received today for scheduling: Daniel C (separate customer from the group buy) has been providing a lot of help with the Crower crank scraper (three exchanges of templates). I have that pattern now so I will be making Bill B's two sets (Crower/Carillo and Moldex) and Dave T's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------- Today I will cut out Leo O's (TR6 2500 scraper) and Kevin L's (2000 GT6). I already have Dean T's cut out and am assembling it. All three will go out today. Note: Kevin L's order was picked up by someone else. I need to address that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- Thanks, Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Tue Sep 23 15:57:59 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:20:05 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:20:05 EDT Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Message-ID: Bill... You're absolutely right about tow points. It is difficult with some cars, like our Thunder Bolt and Talisman with their tilting bonnets. The Talisman has other issues in the rear that complicate things. We carry a loose strap with the T-Bolt, and have built a convoluting contraption for towing the Talisman. It works, but takes time to hook up. The Mini involved in the Eastlake incident at ROAD AMERICA last Friday had four tow hookup points. Two in the front and two in the rear. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 9:11:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, william.tobin3 at verizon.net writes: Hi all, a couple things come to mind here. First, most vintage groups require towing eyes on the cars, front and rear. They should be clearly visible and marked; Pegasus and others sell "Tow" decals. Paint the tow eyes a contrasting color for easy ID. Make the holes 2" in diameter for easy hookup. Put two front and two rear and use them for tie downs. Jack Woehrle of SVRA put out a couple of rants, justifiably so, a couple years ago on their web site about tow eyes. Make it quicker and easier for the safety crews to hook up and go; may save another incident like this one. Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Vintage is supposed to be about having fun; losing our fellow drivers doesn't fit that description. Drive your cars hard but remember that those other guys are probably your friends. And the HANS is a great investment. Hope I didn't offend anyone; not the point. Take care, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: _BillDentin at aol.com_ (mailto:BillDentin at aol.com) To: _susank at 141.com_ (mailto:susank at 141.com) ; _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Jim Austhof's is sure getting a Baptism of Fire. His description, of course, is accurate, as is his counsel concerning the Hans devise. Not sure it would have been quite as effective in this case because of the 'side impact', but there certainly would have been increased stability. Vintage racing is not a high speed parade. Its risks are serious. The biggest thing I was reminded of is the fact that when we race we make a lot of split second decisions. And we don't get to do them over. Serious stuff! I had raced many laps with Dr. Surjit Hermon. In my opinion, he was very conservative, raced at 8/10ths, and was particularly courteous to other racers. I was in that Friday practice session as well, and have to assume he may have missed a waving yellow and standing white at the Thunder Valley worker station. You can't see the apex to 13 coming up that hill, and I suspect he was surprised by the commotion and lost control of his car. So sad these things should happen. As such, we choose not to do the 'missing man' pace lap in honor of Jack Drews on Sunday morning. Bill Dentinger In a message dated 9/22/2008 7:44:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, susank at 141.com writes: This was on the MGVR Yahoo list: ***************************** I have sad news to report from the Vintage Fall Festival at Road America this past weekend. We have had another fatality in the vintage racing community. We lost driver Surjit Hermon on Friday afternoon in an incident near turn 12 (under the now non existent Billy Mitchell bridge). Surjit lost control of his Eastlake 11, skidded right-left- right and impacted a Mini Cooper which was well off course and in the process of being hooked up for a flat tow. The safety workers had to run for their lives when they looked up from trying to find a attachment point for the flat tow and saw a skidding car coming at them. My second weekend as a Driver Committee Chairman - second fatality! Watch your flags, remember the 80% rule, and if you were contemplating a Hans device let this be a warning. Jim Austhof Red #1 MGB ***************************** Susan -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? _Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators_ (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) . ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Tue Sep 23 16:48:40 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:48:40 EDT Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Message-ID: Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: _Kas Kastner_ (mailto:kaskas at cox.net) To: _for at autox.team.net_ (mailto:for at autox.team.net) Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 17:29:35 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:29:35 EDT Subject: [Fot] "UNCLE JACK" wins at Targa Newfoundland Message-ID: The Driving Team of Hopkins & Hughes won the Targa Newfoundland outright for the second year in a row. (Can they threepeat in 2009?) A 1969 BMW 2002, aka as 'WOODSTOCK', sported an UNCLE JACK decal. This seems appropriate to his memory. He won it all in LIFE. Oh yes, Sunday, the 21st would have been Jack's Birthday, too. JHA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 18:11:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:11:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: FoT, There was a creative collaboration between The Vintage Triumph Register and the Friends of Triumph....largely thanks to Blake Discher, President of VTR. These posters were provided free of charge to Registered VTR members and the FOT who were at the Glen. The poster was a huge hit and many of them were signed. A keeper in any case. It is 12 x 18, a nice size to frame and very Period Looking with a Le Mans TRS. It is devoid of any commercial logos and such, by design. I brought a few back with me. I promised to hold one for a few folks, that were unable to attend, but of course I dont remember who they were. Please contact me if you want one. If you want one, it would be good to send me $10.00. That ought to cover a mailing tube and postage. It might take me awhile to send as I am backlogged with work, but I will do my best. Thanks Blake....I hope we can collaborate more with VTR in the future. Since we dont have a formal organization, perhaps a VTR membership is in order for the FOT. FOT Gary Horstkorta and others have been contributing to the TVT Magazine, edited by our FOT Mike Cook, so there is a fair amount of FoT Content, you might enjoy. Joe Alexander 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timmurph at fastbytes.com Tue Sep 23 18:49:51 2008 From: timmurph at fastbytes.com (Tim Murphy) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:49:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3a58 at verizon.net Tue Sep 23 18:58:31 2008 From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:58:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: <2147528.552201222217911058.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Tue Sep 23 19:22:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:22:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Herald948 at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:24:38 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:24:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JHOUATHOME at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:46:43 2008 From: JHOUATHOME at aol.com (JHOUATHOME at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:46:43 EDT Subject: [Fot] Radiator for #197-Help! Message-ID: Hi Joe, The radiator that I used for years in my TR4 was from ( I think) a 1967 Mustang. It was the "Heavy Duty Desert" radiator, and I am not certain what other years it would fit. The outlet and inlet were good, and I had to make a couple of simple brackets. As I recall it cost me $89.00 from NAPA, and my TR never saw the far side of 190 degrees ever again. Cheap, simple, and very effective, it filled up the space quite well. It cooled so well that I never bothered to build any shrouding around it! Good luck, John Houlton In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:25:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, N197TR4 at cs.com writes: FOT List, I have always used a stock TR3/TR4 radiator with great success. However, #197 came off of the jack at the Glen and smushed the bottom tank. (Yes, I have done this before, as several folks pointed out in the paddock) I wonder if anyone has ever found a domestic or offshore modern radiator that fit? Fabicating brackets and bending tubes is not a big deal for me. Moving around inlets and outlets is not desirable. I dont care about aluminum and stuff like that. Low cost is an objective. At Mid-Ohio, I think a Mustang radiator found it's way into one of the Brit's TR6 (Chris Peche?) It required a hole in the bonnet however. Thanks! Joe _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smockracer at charter.net Tue Sep 23 21:26:05 2008 From: smockracer at charter.net (Paul Smock ) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race References: Message-ID: <6AADCFD5D1FB4BE29EA90EF279076D17@fred> I will be there with #190 and Sally with her new knee.GOOD THING. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: kaskas at cox.net ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race Steve Smith expects to be there. I believe Chuck and Mike as well... In a message dated 9/23/2008 2:59:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kaskas at cox.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Tue Sep 23 19:12:23 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:12:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's References: <000d01c91ddf$74332070$6f02a8c0@TimsMilwPC> Message-ID: <00a201c91de2$9a1e9640$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PM Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Tue Sep 23 22:13:44 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:13:44 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 06:25:57 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:25:57 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: Jim, Lot's of us are members of the VTR and also our local Triumph clubs which are for the most part Chapters of the VTR. I believe one of the requirements for becoming a chapter is to hold an annual event, which we seem to be doing with the Kastner Cup. Although it wouldn't help the autocrossers and hill-climbers on the list, any additional promotion that would result from an "FOT Chapter" of the VTR putting more Triumphs out to race for the Kastner Cup gets my vote. On the other hand I think there is some provision for a monthly newsletter and as a loosely organized group with no dues, rules etc. I don't think we want that kind of obligation. Speaking of annual events, the Texas All British Car Day, my local club's (Hill Country Triumph Club) annual event is this weekend near Austin Texas. We are in our 18th year and this show was created specifically to meet the VTR requirements. If you are going to be in the area we have a rallye Saturday afternoon and a participant's choice car show Sunday. We had 144 cars last year. Contact me directly for info. As always I'll be bringing my racecar to promote vintage racing. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:14 PM To: Herald948 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Andy, To what point? When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 I'd asked a friend familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. I was told of one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on the side curtain TRs. My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda confirmed that idea. To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post sidecurtain cars went into the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the TR7/TR8s. There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. Cheers, Jim Dallas '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser and a barn full of projects. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: Joe; You might be surprized as to how many FOT members are also members of the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in the beginning. Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and yes, National Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car Nut". Dean Tetterton ==AM== Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is 113. ;-) This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: http://www.vtr.org Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: http://triumph-herald.us ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:16:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:16:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals - Decals in the mail today. Message-ID: FOT, For those that sent requests & SASE for the Uncle Jack Memorial decals, I have them sorted out and ready to send today. Those contributions from the mailings and at Watkins Glen will be bundled together with the original envelopes and sent to Aunt Frances and Tony, shortly. Sorry for the delay.....I am catching up on the loose ends. Thanks to everyone for all of the interest and generosity on behalf of the Drews Family. What a non-group of Friends! Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 24 09:35:49 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> Message-ID: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Jim wrote: > From: Jim > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > To: Herald948 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net, bdischer at blakedischer.com > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 12:13 AM > Andy, > > To what point? > > When I purchased my first Spitfire ('73 1500) in 1989 > I'd asked a friend > familiar with the scene if there were any clubs to look at. > I was told of > one national club ( VTR) but told they were only focused on > the side curtain > TRs. > > My first call to a VTR officer in central NJ kinda > confirmed that idea. > > To my knowledge most of the factory efforts post > sidecurtain cars went into > the Spitfires.. not forgetting the Group 44 TR6s and the > TR7/TR8s. > > There are members on this list who are die hard VTR > members. There are > folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about > the VTR. At > best. > > So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? > And what are the > requirements, and dues? > > > I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I > won't like what I see > though. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > '76 DM Spitfire autocrossser > and a barn full of projects. > > _____ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Herald948 at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:25 PM > To: tr3a58 at verizon.net; N197TR4 at cs.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com > Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT > > > In a message dated 9/23/2008 8:59:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time, > tr3a58 at verizon.net writes: > > > Joe; > You might be surprized as to how many FOT members > are also members of > the VTR. I for one am VTR member #599. Joined way back in > the beginning. > Also a member of TRA, TR Register/UK, SVRA, VDCA, SCCA, and > yes, National > Street Rod Association. A tried and true "Car > Nut". > > Dean Tetterton > > ==AM== > Gee, Dean, you're just a kid. My VTR member number is > 113. ;-) > > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT > members so inclined: > perhaps we could become some sort of "Special > Chapter" or "Affiliate" of > VTR? > > --Andy Mace > > *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? > *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's > more your, er, Triumph > Herald engine with wings. > -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying > Circus (22) > > Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The > Vintage Triumph > Register: http://www.vtr.org > > Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) > and Triumph Herald > Database: http://triumph-herald.us > > > > > _____ > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check > out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001> > calculators. > ____________________________________________________________ > Free quote and debt consolidation information. Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1kY55Rie8unfck4mG73rLBJvPS3BEaCEm1Ub4FE03jGw/_______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 09:40:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:40:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] Thanks to Joe Richards, Family, Friends and Robert Smith - TS1 LO Message-ID: I'd like to take a moment to thank all above....and more below. The weekend at the Village and Watkins Glen International was greatly enhanced due to the participation of the TR2 TS1LO. Thanks to Joe & Dottie for their involvement in perserving this important Triumph Hertage. Special Thanks to Robert Smith who made this happen. Robert made this happen at no small cost and risk. But what a send off to Hawaii! Huge appreciation goes to The Village of the Glen who did an outstanding job of Honoring TS1 LO. Posters, Programs, The Gary Horstkorta Article, and a Commissioned Oil Painting...... Thanks to Classic Motorsports & Moss for the use of their facilities at the track to secure TR2 TS1 LO during the evenings. Thanks to SVRA for their use of TS1 as the Honorary Pace Car driven by Robert & 'Navigated' by Kas Kastner for the Triumph Feature Race. I am sure I am overlooking some folks. Anyway, please feel free to respond with any relevent comments. Regards, Joe Alexander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 09:40:58 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:40:58 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. Steve Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 09:57:05 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Yikes. I know those things are pretty, but they are a leak waiting to happen, I hate brake fluid on stuff. If it was anything but brake fluid I would suggest the standard rusty tank cure--an internal coating. But I'm not sure what coating would be certain to hold brake fluid. You pull the whole thing off, block off the outlet with a fitting and pressurize the tank while it's full of colored water and find your leak, then solder it. An easy way to pressurize the tank is with a pressure bleeder system. If you can't find a cap to fit you could make one with a rubber stopper. You only need a pound or so of pressure to turn a dribble leak into a spurt. Especially if the fluid is thin like water. On Sep 24, 2008, at 8:40 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Has anyone tested for leaks or repaired the stock metal canister > that holds the brake fluid on a TR3? I suspect a tiny leak in the > tin or perhaps at the fittings at the bottom. > > Steve > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Sep 24 10:20:22 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 10:28:06 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> References: <749896398-1222270935-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068737657-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <9E76124BE4114BDAB6BD53AC2F922188@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 24 10:41:34 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:41:34 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Message-ID: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 10:52:33 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:52:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1E79BEA1-A0A3-4697-A326-9B9C5C47D4D2@bnj.com> If you are a good fabricator it's a relatively easy thing to build. You can get an adjustable bias pivot from Tilton and do a nice job. Tilton also has nice girling-pattern master cylinders with remote or integrated reservoirs. If you build a bias-adjustable system I suggest you make both cylinders the same size so you can share a spare rebuild kit between them. Some master cylinders have residual pressure valves already installed. Make sure you take that out for the clutch or you'll toast your thrust bearings. Don't ask how I know that. Peyote's box is home-made and has worked well for eons. You can also build one without the adjustable pivot and just make up a selection of bars with varied ratios for front to rear bias. On Sep 24, 2008, at 9:41 AM, colordog.1 at earthlink.net wrote: > Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for > 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine > before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake > master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc > setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc > setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus > shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still > extremely safe? > ------Original Message------ > From: Kramer, Robert > Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual > circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall > find. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > > > >> and find your leak, then solder it. > > That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's > soldered > together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So > bringing > one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder > joint and > allow it to pull apart, etc. > > I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. > > Randall > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 11:28:40 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:28:40 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001201c91dfb$f0e7f520$ec503542@jrg> <843678.48356.qm@web83106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c91e6a$fd41e2d0$74513542@jrg> Doug, It was VTR. When I talked to the officer about joining they were more than happy to take my membership dues... when I asked about what VTR did all I heard about was the National Convention and Concourses/shows. Maybe I had selective hearing, but I wanted to hear about driving events (rallies, etc). So I joined just a local chapter (affiliated with VTR of course) and derive enough benefits from that membership. I'm also a member of NASS and there was an attempt to get NASS affiliated with VTR. VTR never gave a compelling reason for the association... just seemed to be kind of a "hey, I'm a Triumph club and *you're* a Triumph club, lets get together". The attempt failed as VTR never agreed to pay NASS for the privelage of being allowed to be assocatied with NASS. Or something like that. ;) I look forward to details on what exactly a "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR entails. Cheers, Jim Dallas 76 DM autocrosser and too many other projects. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mitchell [mailto:dmitchel at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:36 AM To: Herald948 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Jim, Are you sure it was the VTR and not the TRA? VTR opened their doors to all Triumphs (and Standards) in 1982. I joined in 1986, and also belong to the Detroit Club and SCCA. When I first returned to the States with my Spit in 1977, I inquired about the VTR, but at that time it was only for cars over 10 years old. Joined Detroit Triumphs and have been a member ever since. TRA has always been for side curtain cars and only relatively recently condescended to allowing TR4s. I don't think that even now they recognize anything newer. ;) Doug ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4t16llChFXmXY2kDAO0U8O7cFEuMtXr1uP0OY2tFmj23CgXG/ From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 13:00:31 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:00:31 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. In-Reply-To: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1871921470-1222274570-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1151547534-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I went with the UK set-up because I was restore a car raced in the 60's and I knew it would look the part. I guess it was Revington's and the exchange rate was a lot better then. My previous car, a TR4 hada TR6 master cylinder and it worked fine. Of course it was not bias adjustable and it required some reinforcing of the sheet metal mounting area. That may be the easiest route. -----Original Message----- From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net [mailto:colordog.1 at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:42 AM To: Kramer, Robert; fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. Moss sells the can for 80 bucks, revington tr sells an alum can for 84?. And a Stainless steel can for 152?. I want to leak test mine before placing an order. Since I have both the clutch and brake master cyls out, now would be a good time to switch to a dual mc setup for the brakes. I've read all the posts about the dual mc setups. Revington's ready-made setup is about 1500 bucks plus shipping. What is the least expensive way to go that is still extremely safe? ------Original Message------ From: Kramer, Robert Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 24, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. These cans may be available new from the UK. When I bought my dual circuit brake setup it came with a brand new can. Seek and ye shall find. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:20 AM Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Brake/clutch fluid res. > and find your leak, then solder it. That in itself is tricky with the original TR3 reservoir. It's soldered together (with low temperature 'soft' solder) to begin with. So bringing one spot to soldering temperature will soften the adjacent solder joint and allow it to pull apart, etc. I gave up and found another one that didn't leak. Randall _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From dtalbott at archrepro.com Wed Sep 24 14:06:11 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:06:11 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Sad news from Road America References: <03b601c91d21$94c3dc80$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: <004001c91e80$fde302d0$6501a8c0@LatitudeD530> When I first read the 8/10ths comment, I assumed it related to some kind of vintage rule about slowing by that amount in the proximity of an off-course car, or something similar. It simply never occurred to me that there is an assumption that vintage racing is to be carried out at a such a reduced level. I suppose the fraction refers as much to effort as it does to speed, but using our usual measure of speed, 8/10ths means you are adding around 20 seconds to a typical 90 second lap time. I know that some of us (in our younger days) have been known to be susceptible to the dreaded "red mist," but at the other extreme, if I were driving at anything resembling an 8/10ths pace, I'd be a little concerned that I could potentially overlook something like a yellow flag. I'm a firm believer that for myself, as my speed and adrenaline go up, so does my focus, awareness and attentiveness to the serious task at hand. Obviously there is a point (and this is the red mist territory) where the desire to get past the car in front of you can preclude the ability of one's brain to see much else, but I'm clear that vintage events are not the place for that. Not many racing venues today are for that matter, although there have been a number of drivers (Nigel Mansel comes to mind) who've been richly rewarded for just such behavior. DT ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: WILLIAM TOBIN Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; susank at 141.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Sad news from Road America Nextly, as far as I know, nobody has gone from vintage to F1. Are we getting too serioius about winning? Just a thought. Geez, so my planned career path is probably a bust? I know it doesn't make sense, but when you get behind a wheel you race. End of story. I honestly never have really understood this eight tenths stuff. Sure, we don't jam our cars into a chicane five across and get all chesty, and we back off rather than make that low-percentage pass that would be just part of the game even in your basic SCCA regional race, but we still all push it, and try to pick up a little more mid corner speed in that long sweeper, event though the car is bucking a little and the back end is stepping out. I'm KNOW there's some people out there that don't think of winning, they think about their car's history, and they just enjoy being on the track. I know because I usually lap them, sometimes several times. It's not a parade. I don't drive it that way, and neither do the vast majority of the people I know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 16:16:43 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (Rob) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:16:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service Message-ID: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Wed Sep 24 13:40:03 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: Message-ID: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Wed Sep 24 16:43:27 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:43:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 17:00:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:00:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Jonmac, Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? The Internet does have different effects. On the one hand it does make it easier to FIND local clubs. 10 years ago in Dallas we'd have people walk up during a show and be amazed that there is a Dallas club devoted to Triumphs. As you point out, having information "freely given" does make some people feel less urgency to join a club to get answers to the mysteries posed by the elusive "Stan Part". As part of Allexperts I've been advising people on how to fix their Triumphs. My usual advice? Look at the VTR website for vendor information, and look at the VTR website for local chapter information, as a way to hook up with other owners. I also do strongly advocate picking up a Bentley manual for their car, instead of relying on some idiot on the internet. Wish I got a commission from RB. I think the US clubs are starting to hit a balance point. The "original" unmolested cars are either ratty or gone. The "restored" toys are still out there, although not driven anywhere as often at they were when new. Most of the people with restored cars are aware of the different clubs and I suspect that when the cars are sold that information is also passed along. The new owners might not take note.. until something breaks and they're told by the suppliers that it's "NLA" new. Then they'll find the clubs again. Some of the race cars will be "barned".. or put out to rust like the side curtain car in NJ. Some more of the ratty unmolested cars will find their new lives as race cars. As I understand it, the 1997 VTR National in Dallas was the first to have a separate concours class for "prepared" cars. Or was I just sunstroked from running the Autocross that week? I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ Wanna lose weight? Weight Loss Programs that work. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tK0SsK9n6LkTvyKdM7PPU9nkmPDtnTck07Kqvz4xpGXufc0/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 18:10:10 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:10:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: > Andy Mace wrote: > This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so > inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or > "Affiliate" of VTR? > > I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially > summarised as follows: > > 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) > and because of that, there should be room in your local or national > club to accommodate your usage preference. > 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners > are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club > memberships > 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast > custodians and will need to have 'a home' > 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my > perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this > 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base > is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be > viable as heretofore. This begs the question > 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable > eventuality? > 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club > membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already > known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent > > With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates > to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." > Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide > 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the > internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. > > Rant off > > Jonmac > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 19:10:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:10:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Wed Sep 24 19:32:47 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:32:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A > Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've > kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage > Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous > emails...... > The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! > Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's > REALLY the way it is.!..... > > Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way > To Tell..... > Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very > often..DO NOT RACE....... > > Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gt6steve at aol.com Wed Sep 24 19:36:15 2008 From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:36:15 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: _Bill Babcock_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) To: _John Macartney_ (mailto:standardtriumph at btinternet.com) Cc: _fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot at autox.team.net) ; _bdischer at blakedischer.com_ (mailto:bdischer at blakedischer.com) Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net _http://www.team.net/donate.html_ (http://www.team.net/donate.html) _http://www.fot-racing.com_ (http://www.fot-racing.com/) Fot mailing list _Fot at autox.team.net_ (mailto:Fot at autox.team.net) _http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_ (http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot) Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins _Billb at bnj.com_ (mailto:Billb at bnj.com) 503.936.7660 _www.bnj.com_ (http://www.bnj.com/) Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal _Bill at kenalu.com_ (mailto:Bill at kenalu.com) _www.kenalu.com_ (http://www.kenalu.com/) blog: _www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog_ (http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Wed Sep 24 19:42:10 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:42:10 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080925014414.XBDT6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> I very much appreciate my wife's understanding. We will all go in our own time. Be it on track, driving to the Super market, watching TV (that happened to an Uncle of her's last month) or asleep in your bed. She had very little concern when our son started racing karts at 9 (he's 16 now) because of the precautions taken and once he demonstrated sufficient skills she had no more concern. Safety gear (suit, helmet, etc...) and the fact that there are the wonderful corner workers and EMT's on site. Nothing like that available to him riding his bike or skateboard in the neighborhood. From dos_gusanos at msn.com Wed Sep 24 20:11:53 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:11:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Wed Sep 24 21:22:53 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:22:53 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:18:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:18:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s80aNzGXgpDIvE9AxeUSLkHBoTWezdCTAgnr8LS5ESecs3o/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 20:30:41 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:30:41 -0500 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <000101c91ebd$ff815cd0$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <002c01c91eb6$b5a80b60$455d3542@jrg> Ultimately vintage race groups are going to look at grid numbers. If numbers (read $$$) fall then it's time to accept more modern cars. The group I ran with in the mid-90s evidently had trouble filling grid spots. So it was a "run what ya brung" kind of mentality. Once the sport got poplular they could afford to enforce vintage rules.. to the point that they're about the strictest vintage group around. They've starting cutting off the Lotus 7 copies as it was a means of also cutting off all the AC Cobra copies. So, if they're allowing cars without history to race.. there's always another Spitfire or TR6 lurking out there (my barn is full of them ;) ) to keep the '72 and older grid full. On the flip side.. if they enforced a history requirement on vintage racing... how many of us have cars with sufficient history to keep running? So... unless you can convince your local racing group to start accepting Yugo YV1s... keep looking at the pre-73 vintage legal car projects. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg & Alison Blake Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:23 PM To: 'Kramer, Robert'; 'John Macartney'; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Hey. There are a few of us out here still in our 30's, at least for a couple more years. The challenge for me seems to be completing my car before I turn 40. I know this was battered about some time ago, but I agree with Bob that locking in a hard cut off date for "Vintage" is designed obsolescence. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Kramer, Robert Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:43 PM To: John Macartney; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT I was born in 1956. My interest in Triumphs starts with the TR6 model I saw as a teen and led to my exposure to the earlier cars, eventually racing a TR3, 4 and 4A. The local clubs are the not so secret solution to our future. We need to support the TR7/TR8 late Spitfire contingents in our local clubs and we can still grow the marque. This is one of the problems we have with vintage racing. By cutting off in 1967 or even 1972 we cut off the younger generation, you know the 40 year olds. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Macartney Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:40 PM To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac ____________________________________________________________ See the Internet how it was meant to be seen with Cable Internet. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s8kPNdwsU8sLwd8w4M94LqflMy8jnTaVWm8HVwQQn4GyfSQ/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:53:09 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:53:09 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> Message-ID: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:54:20 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:54:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: dos_gusanos at msn.com To: David W. Riddle ; fot Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:56:56 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:56:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <106933AE6DA04673A7F47C49BD4E79B9@Bud> Terrific Stuff Steve...We are what we are! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 20:58:35 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:58:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: Message-ID: <58BF5375715D4671B367DADB5FFD1C10@Bud> Wooohoo..YEAH BABY! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:32 PM Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koblinger at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 21:00:28 2008 From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:00:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> References: <8555D3AFFCAD4B33847405CDC652875D@Bud> Message-ID: <48DAFECC.4010909@verizon.net> Most people just don't get it. It ain't how you die that matters, it's how you live. Kurt O. RACER BUD wrote: > YEAH BABY! > Racer Bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* dos_gusanos at msn.com > *To:* David W. Riddle ; fot > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:11 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH > > > > My most serious accidents have happened on the street. I so far > have been lucky, really lucky, and am still around. I know > people who bought the farm on the way to vintage races. Last week > I went to a restaurant in Juarez, Mexico the site of 800 plus > murders so far this year, not the restaurant, but the city. I ate > the Tripitas and Sirloin Tacos, and likewise am still kicking. > Not the point. The owner of the restaurant was a racer and member > of the Juarez sports hall of fame. The restaurant was plastered > with photos of his circle track career and one photo that struck > me was of him and his buddies standing around after a race in 1954 > and their safety equipment were leather football helmets. He was > in the restaurant and still had his dashing moustache he had from > '54 and a twinkle in his eye at 81 years old. I did my best to > converse with him in my broken spanish and I could only imagine > the racing adventures he had survived. I don't wanna die in bed, > in a crash, or eating Tripitas. But if I do, I'd rather go out > gritting my teeth, foot to the floor, and relishing every > bite...................................Henry Morrison, One medium > large glass of rather cheap Chilean Cab/Merlot mix > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > From Herald948 at aol.com Wed Sep 24 21:06:00 2008 From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:06:00 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Poster VTR & FoT Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 12:14:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, britbits at netzero.com writes: To what point?... There are members on this list who are die hard VTR members. There are folks on this list who maybe are a bit... ambivalent about the VTR. At best. So... as a former VTR president.. what are you proposing? And what are the requirements, and dues? I rule nothing out before looking at it.. Maybe I won't like what I see though. ==AM== I wasn't seriously proposing anything, just kinda tossing out the idea since I understand there's been recent talk about expanding such affiliations in VTR. Blake and other current members of the Board would be the ones to talk more about it. Following "traditional" Chapter guidelines as per VTR's Constitution and Bylaws, it would actually "require" little more than at least 10 members of the group also being current VTR members. What would it gain FoT? Probably very little, particularly since the most formal aspect of FoT is its informality. ;-) But it might gain VTR more; I don't know.... In another post, you wrote: "I think it's in the VTR interest to recognize the racing community, as it's one way to keep the cars in front of the general public. I'm just waiting to see what form that recognition will take." That recognition has been there in VTR for quite some time now. As you note, there are "prepared" categories in the Concours at National Conventions as started in 1997. Our own Joe Alexander has served as the "Racing" vehicle consultant for VTR, listed right there in the magazine with all of us other Triumph model-specific "experts"! In recent years, coverage of FoT-related events and cars has been quite good in _The Vintage Triumph_ magazine. Maybe all that's more than enough, rather than make any FoT members uncomfortable by, in any way, formalizing the organization by virtue of a stronger and more official connection with a group such as VTR? Heck, I'm getting to the point where I tend to follow the philosophy of Groucho Marx regarding organizations, in that at best I'm wary of joining most groups that might welcome me as a member! :-) --Andy Mace *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet? *Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings. -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22) Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph Register: _http://www.vtr.org_ (http://www.vtr.org/) Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 21:16:59 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:16:59 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Holy sh#t, that was beautiful. With a little editing that could well be my new toast, or maybe I'll save it for my funeral (hopefully quite some time from now). We all know death possible in our game. Nonetheless, we endure. Our loved ones know the possibilities, but they allow us our crazy assed efforts to win, because they know it's part of who we are. So pull on the nomex, pay homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:36 PM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote: > > Hi Bud, > > I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. > > We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable > possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. > > Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try > not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It > could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives > have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They > still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than > they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... > > Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could > happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. > > So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most > won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll > just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimhearn1 at comcast.net Wed Sep 24 23:04:56 2008 From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:04:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <200809181508.m8IF8pde023387@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to the pan. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM To: REK46 at aol.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with TriumphTune (or SAH before them). _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From Billb at bnj.com Wed Sep 24 23:23:42 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:23:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head In-Reply-To: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> References: <000001c91ecc$418385f0$b1191718@computer> Message-ID: <5211510A-4051-44E3-BD07-063B13287122@bnj.com> Not really. If you have too much flow, for example if you use a big line instead of a restricted one, then the oil won't drain fast enough. So don't do that. A big line will also rob pressure and volume from the bearing, which need the oil a lot more. Supplemental oiling is meant to keep the shaft and rocker arm bushings in good shape. But they are relatively cheap parts that can be easily replaced. On Sep 24, 2008, at 10:04 PM, jim hearn wrote: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that > if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Chris Kantarjiev > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:09 AM > To: REK46 at aol.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head > > Yeah, I think lots of people sold them; they originated with > TriumphTune (or SAH before them). > _______________________________________________ > http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrickmannion1 at netzero.net Wed Sep 24 23:29:58 2008 From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net (patrickmannion1 at netzero.net) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:29:58 GMT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ From britbits at netzero.com Wed Sep 24 23:39:26 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> References: <001b01c91eb4$f652d520$455d3542@jrg> <14CE501C36DF4BA380FF5BB1D909BD21@Bud> Message-ID: <004b01c91ed1$1390e1b0$14523542@jrg> Hey, ain't no death happening here. We drive Triumphs.. by definition we are IMMORTAL! Or some such stuff. I've taken more risks on my daily drives to work than I ever took on a race track. And had more accidents (1) in that daily drive than I ever had at speed on a race track. But again.. if it ain't fun.. why do it? Call it what you will. Making a corner you didn't think the car could make. Beating a lap time that you thought was unbeatable. Getting past (fill in the blank) when you thought a pass was impossible where you tried it. Sure, there's a risk involved. Breathing air risks inhaling toxic crap on a daily basis. But if the reason you took the risk was just to prove you could... well, that's wimpy. If you took the risk because you enjoyed it (and survived)... that's classic. So, puleeeze, do not speak to me of death on a race track. Talk to me instead of risks taken, sucessfully overcome. And occassionally, chances taken that did not work. If you want to obsess about death.. I do not want to be on the same race track as you. I prefer living, thank you. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: RACER BUD [mailto:budscars at comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:53 PM To: britbits at netzero.com; N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hello RACER Friend....It will not Change...If Motor racing becomes Safe...Then...Motor Racing, rather than drivers, will Die Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: N197TR4 at cs.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Well, this opens the essential question: Is vintage racing about history (historic cars and what not) or about racing? Having only a little experience in open track racing (was there, looked over the edge.. melted a piston, found a job, new girlfriend, prepped autocross car, lost girlfriend, lost job, found wife) I don't have decades of experience in vintage racing. My understanding when I started is that ultimately, it's supposed to be fun. Yes, the grim reaper lurks about, and engine meltdowns and mechanical failures are never fun. But... we're not doing it for money. Not for the cheap chunks of pressboard that some racing groups call trophies. We're doing it for FUN. To test ones self on climbing a summit that's never been climbed before. Be it running a lap under xx time at yy track in a Spitfire. Or whatever you drive. Kind of like riding a time trial in cycling. Beat the clock.. hope the Mac truck doesn't run you over in the process. But if it's not fun.. why do it? There were comments about what Vintage is supposed to be (8/10s, etc). In reality... it's supposed to be like the real racing was. Good judgement means you drive your car to your (and it's) limits and not beyond, as to not put others at risk. Things happen on track and we hope they don't... and if we're smart we have contingency plans in the back of the head for when they do. At the same time... it's like being a doctor. Do no harm. So I was never worried about the risk on track. Just worried about what the goal of the other drivers was. If they're also there for fun.. then usually things work out ok. If they think they need to beat you at any cost... maybe it's time for another sport. My .02 Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:33 PM To: budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Yup, Do not jump out of airplanes... Do not solo ultralight aircraft (when the builder's name is Harold Flatland) Do not ski AJAX...or even Copper Mountain after a 20 year hiatus. Do not climb mountains that require pitons..... Do not ride a motorcycle in downtown London during rush hour.... Do not ride Motocross Competition after age 70....(unless your number is 196) Do not play golf with OJ Stay home and look good at your funeral.... I enjoy cottonmouth and shots of adrenaline. I also enjoy the people I associate with. Joe A Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Catpusher at aol.com Thu Sep 25 00:30:36 2008 From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:30:36 EDT Subject: [Fot] FOT Humor Message-ID: In a message dated 9/24/2008 10:24:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: Subject: CAR RACING & DEATH Subject: Supplimental oil feed to head After returning from an involuntary trip to Vietnam, I raced Nationals for 25 years; are the above subjects related? lol ps, off the net for a couple of weeks. Hardy **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 02:53:00 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:53:00 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <001801c91e99$63b7cfb0$4d513542@jrg> Message-ID: <020601c91eed$a6797570$0201a8c0@Bevan> Interesting points. Maybe I missed the overall point (I *am* in Texas afterall ;) but are you advocating for or against inclusion of FOT into the VTR? I'm advocating that Triumph clubs as a whole should be able to accommodate all Triumph enthusiasts, regardless of how those enthusiasts use their cars. So Yes, I'd be delighted if VTR could find a slot for FoT within its overall structure. But then, I don't know the inner workings of VTR, I live in the UK - and I sure don't want to get involved in what some might say are 'politics' :::))) Jonmac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From standardtriumph at btinternet.com Thu Sep 25 03:03:59 2008 From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:03:59 +0100 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:22:24 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:22:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head... again In-Reply-To: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> References: <20080924.222958.492.0@webmail15.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <8CAED075AB5F128-162C-94@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Like said in my first reply to the original poster, and has been mentioned by others, you need to restrict the amount of oil so as not to fill the rocker box,. If you are sucking it down the intakes, check stem/guide clearance and/or fit stem seals. Again, it is very simple to let a piece of plexiglass into an old cover so you can actually SEE how much oil is getting to the top end. Another benefit to doing this mod is that it ensures a good supply of oil to run down to the cam & tappets. Many of these engines suffer from lack of oil to the top-end & this results in heavy wear to not only the rocker gear, but the cam & tappets, almost always on the front most cylinders. Having been into one or two of these engines over the last fourty years... I see a real benefit from doing this. Or OTOH it may be a waste of time & $$... JMNSFHO, Glen -----Original Message----- From: patrickmannion1 at netzero.net To: Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; cak at dimebank.com Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 1:29 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Hello, On street cars, any time I have seen these "supplemental oil feed lines" used on TR3/4/6, Morgans ect... the excess oil sent to the cylinder head tends to end up in the combustion chamber via the intake valve guides. Valve guide seals on the intake help. Modifying the back journal of the camshaft to meter oil flow to the head seems better than sending full and constant oil galley pressure to the cylinder head. Using a chromed rocker shaft, good rocker arm bushings, good oil, and not using excessive valve spring pressure, should maintain the integrity of the valve gear. Pat Mannion Santa Cruz, CA ____________________________________________________________ Free Fashion Design Education Information. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vDzH0dhwKduBFXah4iYz4SyGrZ2NesVD8n3S7ZWELxEhntQ/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From fubog1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 03:33:41 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:33:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> Message-ID: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. HTH Glen link to full text, kinda long- http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html -----Original Message----- From: RACER BUD To: Bill Babcock ; John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 9:10 pm Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept? kinda'?Quiet about the subject ..Regarding? Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things?as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... ? Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the? word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... ? Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belo ng to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a?truly?great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about?parliamentary?procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic.? I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but ? unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part.? FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought.? On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? ? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: ? 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent ? With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all."?Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. ? Rant off ? Jonmac ? ? ?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From mdporter at dfn.com Thu Sep 25 04:15:48 2008 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:15:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> Message-ID: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> John Macartney wrote: > Bill Babcock wrote: > You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. > Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones > that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library > (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment > here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a > claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants > about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to > decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. > > Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to > them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter > Motor Appreciation Society" > > FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--*perish the thought*. > > Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR > isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a > democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I > don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep > foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels > association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as > well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one > of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but > because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America > should copy. > > Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... > > Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 07:32:23 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.com (Joe Boruch) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:32:23 GMT Subject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's Message-ID: <20080925.093223.210.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> I used the mounting kit for Weber's and some longer studs. The kit has the o-rings mounted to an aluminum plate and has the rubbery spacers to hold the carbs snug to the manifold. I just had to elongate a couple of the holes in the o-ring plate and the plate will slide right over 2 diagonally opposing studs. I used a little Hylomar on the o-rings as a little sealant. Joe(B) -- "BOB KRAMER" wrote: All I did when I went this route was to use some 2" o-rings I had lying around. I added some slightly longer carb studs and cut a minor recess into the stock phenolic block. Worked perfectly but I suppose I should have created something to fill the gap between the block and the carb body.Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Murphy To: 'FOT' Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:49 PMSubject: [Fot] Soft mounts for H6 SU's We had a problem with the front H6 SU going rich at the end of the front straight and in the carousel at Elkhart Lake last weekend so I want to make some soft mounts for the carbs. I'll get the material and O-rings from McMaster-Carr so I have a lot of choices. I was thinking of using a phenolic called Garolite or an acetal. The O-ring material I was thinking of was Viton. Any suggestions? And does the hardness of the O-rings make much diference? There were some threads on this back about 7 and 8 years ago that I looked up in the archives but no specifics on materials. Tim _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Shop now for huge discounts on quality surveillance cameras. Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijltMADfJAQzpYWuALtmTzhPjswvNZrZ4ifex2oCVORq3upkO/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 09:25:27 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH, VINTAGE RACING, DRIVERS, 8/10s- LINK In-Reply-To: <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> References: <53C07E689C0F46A48D0FD12DAC6B7988@Bud> <8CAED08EE32CEE3-162C-B3@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <28ACC2EF-2D16-4307-8C85-497176AAA988@bnj.com> That's a really fine piece of work, and it should probably be read on a yearly basis about the same time you get your physical. I don't normally consider myself obsessed with death, but rather with living life well, and that includes a fair amount of risk. I have to rationalize that risk against all the other aspects of my life that I treasure. I believe that I race the way Burt describes. Unfortunately more than just a few friends of mine who are no longer with us also took those risks, and behaved well, as Burt describes. All are gone too soon, some forty years ago, some this year. I lost two good friends this year, who were doing things I love to do in the way I love to do them. I think about them every day. I still do all the things I love, but I miss my friends. On Sep 25, 2008, at 2:33 AM, fubog1 at aol.com wrote: > Here is a link to an old article by Burt Levy on this very subject. > I've posted it before, maybe it's time to re-visit it. > HTH > Glen > link to full text, kinda long- > http://www.englishautosports.com/PureBS.html > > -----Original Message----- > F From N197TR4 at cs.com Thu Sep 25 10:02:26 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:02:26 EDT Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Grand Prix Festival-The Legends Speak FoT Message-ID: FOT: More well deserved thanks...to....Kas Kastner, Ed Diehl, Bob Johns, John Macartney: The Legends Speak. The FOT was well represented and they held the audience attention for more than an hour. Brian Redman was there, too, but decided he was unecessary to the success of the program and quickly passed the baton. See note from Committee Chair, Lew Durland, below: > Joe, > Thank you so much for all you did to make The Legends Speak a very > successful event. We had a record turnout for our event, and all the speakers were > great. I greatly enjoyed meeting John Macartney and hearing his humorous > stories from his days at Triumph as well as his very sobering personal tale of > PTSD. Bob Johns spoke fondly of his racing at Sebring in 1957. He and and his > wife were very friendly and I enjoyed speaking with them immensely. Kas > provided a great view from the technical and managerial perspective, and it was > great to see Ed Diehl again and to meet his wife Linda this time. > > Thank you so much for arranging and bringing the speakers for this event. > And thank you for keeping after me. All in all, it was a success. I heard > many compliments and good comments. > > Thanks again for your invitation to stop up at the Triumph paddock. > Unfortunately, I ended up having other commitments to which I had to attend during > the rest of the weekend, so I never got back up to the track. We hope you can > make it back next year. > > Lew > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chasgee at aol.com Thu Sep 25 11:01:24 2008 From: chasgee at aol.com (chasgee at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:01:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Las Vegas Race In-Reply-To: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> References: <1242436DCC7C4562B562EA66AB969D33@KasPC> Message-ID: <8CAED477A30E2C0-11F8-D48@webmail-de16.sysops.aol.com> Yes, Mike and I will be there.? Allen Weins and Jerry Alford as well. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Kas Kastner To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 2:57 pm Subject: Re: [Fot] Las Vegas Race ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: for at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Las Vegas Race October? 18th & 19th, Who is going to this event?, Chuck, Paul, Mordy, Steve Smith and others of the Left Coast ????? I've only driven 6500 miles this month so need a chance to exercise my chariot. But if no TR's then it's just more golf. _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Thu Sep 25 12:49:15 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:49:15 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsnook at wcnet.org Thu Sep 25 14:09:19 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:09:19 -0500 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH References: <3B66161135D846F08BE9ECCF4086BDAD@KasPC> Message-ID: <9D440054696D4EA7A853440DA0EB12EA@JeffsNotebook> I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kas Kastner To: Gt6steve at aol.com ; budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gt6steve at aol.com To: budscars at comcast.net ; Billb at bnj.com ; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Hi Bud, I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response. We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO. Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at rationalizing... Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to us while our wives know full well what is at stake. So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, budscars at comcast.net writes: Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails...... The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win! Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!..... Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way To Tell..... Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... Racer Bud..Spitfire #21 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: John Macartney Cc: fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking part. FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote: Andy Mace wrote: This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR? I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially summarised as follows: 1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to accommodate your usage preference. 2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships 3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home' 4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this 5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question 6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable eventuality? 7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size. Rant off Jonmac _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1688 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:29 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spreiss at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 23:34:20 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:34:20 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <022e01c91ed0$5cc03120$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> Looks like a little spoiler on there, doesn't it, Jack W.? ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Johns To: FOT team Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: [Fot] Question? Did Phill Hill race a TR 2 on the West coast? This attached photo should put to bed any question about Phil Hill racing a TR 2 early in his career. The car appears to be the Cal Sales car of Dorothy Deen's from the color scheme. This photo was supplied by a friend of ours in the Triumph Register group. Bob Johns ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ http://www.team.net/donate.html Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 15:06:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:06:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] Supplimental oil feed to head Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 12:05:36 AM Central Daylight Time, jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: > It seems like in a previous post on this subject, it was said that if a > supplemental oil feed to the head is employed, then something (I can't > remember what) must be used to get excess oil from the valve cover to > the pan. > Jim... I don't remember the particular fix for that, but it reminded me of Donnie Sopp and his Spitfire. He had an engine leak he'd spent months if not years trying to fix. Unsuccessful, he finally developed a gutter and down spout system to deal with it. True story. Bill (Damdinger) ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Thu Sep 25 16:12:59 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:12:59 EDT Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH Message-ID: In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: > I resemble that remark!! > > Jeff Snook > > Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vintage.racer at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 16:34:48 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01c91f5e$ebe85ab0$c3b91010$@racer@comcast.net> Bill: I concur. One of the best races I've had was with a good friend of mine, he in his Alfa GTV and me in my TR4. We raced for a whole session, as fast as we could , nose-to-tail, side-by-side, swapping positions but we did so respecting each other's space, no unsafe maneuvers, just good, clean racing. Of course it helps to know who you're racing with, it makes a world of difference when you have confidence the drivers around you won't try any unsafe moves. One of the practices our club preaches is "get to know the other drivers in your group". The club also puts a letter G for Guest or X for Rookie on the rear of a car which helps experienced drivers ID new cars out on the track. 10/10ths racing can be fun and safe.if you race with your head and not your foot. Gary From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:13 PM To: jsnook at wcnet.org; kaskas at cox.net; Gt6steve at aol.com; budscars at comcast.net; Billb at bnj.com; standardtriumph at btinternet.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net; bdischer at blakedischer.com Subject: Re: [Fot] CAR RACING & DEATH In a message dated 09/25/2008 3:11:12 PM Central Daylight Time, jsnook at wcnet.org writes: I resemble that remark!! Jeff Snook Snook! Snooker! That's funny. I don't think it hurts at all for racers (all of them) to consider how and why they're racing, and the fact that death (or worse) is a possibility. I think it is wise to consider it and foolish to ignore it. I just returned from two days in Sterling, Illinois at Doctor Surjit Hermon's wake and funeral. Less than a month after spending two days in Geneseo, Illinois at Jack Drew's wake and funeral. And the two little Illinois towns are less than 50 miles apart. It's hard for me not to spend some time thinking about death and racing. On the bright side, as sad as these wakes and funeral services were, at no time did I sense any ill feelings towards vintage racing. In each case, the families, both of whom were crushed with the loss, seemed to understand the racer died doing something they loved to do. I guess that's good, and like sugar, helps get the medicine to go down. These discussions we have that use rulers like 8/10ths to describe 'safe vintage racing' are pretty academic. After all, 8/10th is just a number, often used in Vintage Drivers' Meetings to describe racing safely and not on or over the edge. There are vintage racers I race with who race at 9/10ths and even 10/10ths, and they do so safely. They are a joy to behold, and I have a super seat to see it. I love it. But I am also aware of some vintage racers who race at 10/10ths and even 11/10ths, who do not do it safely. I don't think they belong in vintage racing. Because last pays the same as first. Because these are old and often tired cars. Because we are called upon to make split second decisions, and get them right the first time...it just seems to me like saving a 1/10th or so will add a safety cushion to the mix. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Thu Sep 25 17:15:07 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:15:07 -0500 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Message-ID: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:21:31 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service In-Reply-To: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> References: <001001c91e93$3a21cfd0$6701a8c0@DFN4YV61> Message-ID: There is a cell tower on the Lime Rock premises, it is Cingular/ATT which I have. Works great. Perhaps (I don't know) there is a roaming agreement for T-Mobile as they use GSM technology ATT uses also. My friend has Verizon and says service is ok in certain areas of the paddock near big bend, perhaps in other areas also. Verizon uses CDMA technology as does Sprint. He had Sprint previously and it was not good at Lime Rock but that was a few years ago. NASCAR and Grand-Am visit Lime Rock each year and last I knew NEXTEL worked also, at least during their events. Perhaps since NEXTEL and Sprint merged Sprint service is better (Sprint and NEXTEL use different technologies). Are you planning on next weekend VSCCA event? I'll be there somewhere! (what car?) Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:17 PM To: Friends of Triumph Subject: [Fot] LRp//// phone service I am in Lrp this week end and need a phone that works my Verizon service did not do sowell last time. Can anyone tell me for certain which carrier (Cingular T- Moble etc) works well at the park thanks rob No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1690 - Release Date: 9/25/2008 7:05 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:23:32 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:23:32 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 17:45:58 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:45:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message starts getting through to people... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" To: "FOT" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let > them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the > weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper > official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm > also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, > after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm > about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the > weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, > threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard > with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to > sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression > took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning > warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful > of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one > douchebag move and you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 17:46:29 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 17:50:48 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:50:48 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <219F2F06084D438299D3CA40481A1542@Bud> Message-ID: <43BB6E2B-F9AA-4CCA-B7B8-7BE78218BE80@earthlink.net> I don't know if any corner worker saw it and I didn't report it, or go talk to the guy and say, WTF? I probably should have. Getting to this race was a big personal goal after some tough times. I was elated that the car worked so well and didn't want a confrontation with a jerky driver. BTW, the new Uncle Jack axles were in the car too, for the first time. ~Steve On Sep 25, 2008, at 4:45 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > That guy should have been black flagged and sent home...In > fact..CSRG would more than likely have put his car on the trailer, > and put him At Least on probation for 13 months...then the message > starts getting through to people... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Belfer" > > To: "FOT" > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:23 PM > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This >> meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, >> let >> them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the >> weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper >> official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm >> also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, >> after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and >> I'm >> about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the >> weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left >> and >> moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >> threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing >> hard >> with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to >> sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression >> took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning >> warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful >> of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one >> douchebag move and you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From spreiss at verizon.net Thu Sep 25 02:45:47 2008 From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:45:47 +1100 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <002b01c91eeb$1b25a6d0$2f01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27> I find it amazing that Phil Hill could have taken all those marvelous photographs while at the same time competing at the top of the heap. That takes a LOT of depth as a human being, and a huge amount of self confidence. Anyone have the book yet? Steve P. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark W. Nicholls To: 'FOT team' Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:46 AM Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 18:19:51 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:19:51 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billsohl at optonline.net Thu Sep 25 18:44:19 2008 From: billsohl at optonline.net (Bill Sohl) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:44:19 -0400 Subject: [Fot] VTR & FoT In-Reply-To: <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> References: <016901c91e7d$5926f380$0201a8c0@Bevan> <020701c91eed$a716edf0$0201a8c0@Bevan> <48DB64D4.6010101@dfn.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Porter To: John Macartney Cc: Bill Babcock ; fot at autox.team.net ; bdischer at blakedischer.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT John Macartney wrote: Bill Babcock wrote: You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. Hey, Bill - we've got twinkies like that in the UK too! I refer to them as paid up members of "The Chipping Sodbury Dynamo and Starter Motor Appreciation Society" FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought. Well, it's come to my notice over the years via this list that the VTR isn't always the most popular with certain individuals, and in a democracy everyone should be able to speak their mind. However as I don't want to get involved in the whys or wherefores, I'll try to keep foot out of mouth. If FoT is happy on its own then fine, if FoT feels association with a national or local club is desirable, that's fine as well. In the UK, the Triumph racing fraternity usually belong to one of two national clubs (Triumph Sports Six and/or TR Register) but because that's the way we do it here, doesn't mean North America should copy. Perhaps its time for me to go into the fallout shelter....... Jonmac Ultimately, the question is one of value added or lost by such an association. FoT is, by nature, very _ad hoc_, while the VTR is dominated by rules and a governing body. That alone will grate on some. Right now, one can be a member of one or the other, or both, without either group interfering with the other, and any cooperation between the two is entirely voluntary. That seems to me to be the ideal set of circumstances. Cheers. Michael Porter Roswell, NM ----------------------------- As both an FOT and VTR member, I say the current relationship between FOT and VTR is just fine. Each addresses a different set of objectives and goals. I was VTR president for 8 years and I think VTR, as a club, does a great job doing what it does. So does FOT. The trouble with just the concept of a formal affiliation is that it usually ends up looking like one entity is then subservient to the other.....and I don't think FOT or VTR wants that. Just my 2 pence. Cheers, Bill Sohl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 18:54:30 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 19:04:45 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:04:45 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:16:40 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:16:40 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <073D6A0404F24F44A57B3D2977B78146@Bud> what's the 'R' word? Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" To: "'Steven Belfer'" ; "'FOT'" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days > of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant > I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool > so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I > needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to > the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to > the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap > time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made > me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to > get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 19:18:01 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: michael cook To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have alcohol on the other side of the rope. You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed bottles. Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and donuts the next morning. And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and a Bell AiroCobra. Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? Mike Cook ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: cwn74 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. Boy were those the glory days! David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, Triumph, Jaguar) were there. A grand time was had by all! If only I took photos! Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Thu Sep 25 19:33:28 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 20:00:02 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:00:02 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen Video/250K Message-ID: <092620080200.18611.48DC42220005A8C5000048B322007614380E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Was that a perfect downshift by Tony going into turn 10, or was that 11?? Also,some good footage of the Peyote. Out of forty or so TR's, didn't anyone have an in-car video for the feature race? Any other footage out there of races or re-enactment? By the way, if you happen to notice the two lenghty skid marks on the re-enactment video just before the bridge, #116 is the owner. Webmaster, Tony Garmey's e-mail address is horizonracing at msn.com Thanks for all the seconds for Tony's membership. John James TR4 #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lunkercars at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 20:17:53 2008 From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:17:53 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: <66C5DB41-6E3E-452D-8CD6-B7B3FF8238E6@earthlink.net> Hello all, Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of the story will follow. I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? Greg "Lunker" Hilyer TR4 #314 Albuquerque NM From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Thu Sep 25 21:05:21 2008 From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:21 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: > > If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best > take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:16:14 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:16:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: Message-ID: Every Minute Counts! Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at tonydrews.com Thu Sep 25 21:16:26 2008 From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:16:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 21:24:56 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:24:56 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009301c91f87$7430efe0$fc503542@jrg> Leon, Point taken. For me the distinction is... recognizing the dangers vs obsessing about them. When I melted a piston and the car filled with smoke in turn 1 at TWS at 100+ mph.. my immediate thought was "well, I've had a fun life so far, so if this is the end, so be it". That was in immediate crisis mode. The car kept running, the smoke cleared and I drove the car back to the paddock to toss it on the trailer. It's only been time and money that have kept me from getting back on track. Not fear of the grim reaper. I respect the gent and I know I will meet him someday. It doesn't stop me from doing the the things I like. And I hope to raise my son to also enjoy racing, in whatever form is still allowed 20 years from now. Darned carbon footprint radicals! Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Guyots3 at wmconnect.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:05 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing In a message dated 9/25/2008 1:11:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fot-request at autox.team.net writes: If you start thinking about death and racing at the same time you had best take up another sport like snooker. My dear old Father, God rest his soul, spent his autumn years on the bowling green involved with the terribly dangerous English sport of lawn bowling. I well recall his telling me about the match he was having with poor old 'Bob' who was well into his 90s, my dad took his shot and turned round to ask Bob when he was going to take his turn, only to find him lying stone dead on the grass. That sport was a true killer, it took them all one after another. But the point is, they died doing what they loved, and that surely beats dying n your sleep in a care home with Alzheimer's! L http://community.webshots.com/user/vitesse1963 ____________________________________________________________ Reduce your debt up to 40%. Click here for debt consolidation information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4txv1pXCtz9kQtHxKzFXWAd7p8x52sxhO4q3sur3FcnKJMFM/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 21:30:00 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:30:00 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing References: <20080926031637.9757218788A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <3B3EE88659964A7AB2C5FCBDDA3797E9@Bud> Of course not Tony..thanks for your patience Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing > Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? > > - Tony Drews > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:51:20 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:51:20 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > Steven, > > Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage > events... so > some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games > feel > they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw > "Days of > Thunder" once too often ;) > > Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad > idea to > install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show > them the > video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On > Behalf Of Steven Belfer > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM > To: FOT > Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at > Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This > meant I > needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them > cool so > I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was > in the > first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what > I needed > to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and > feeling > that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done > bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first > "Warm-up" > session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved > him to the > left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close > to the > line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE > DIRT at > full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw > some > rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a > yellow > P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his > lap time > when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and > made me > angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my > best to get > my job done safely and get off > the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's > dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize > money." > I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their > machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move > and > you're in big trouble. > > ~SB > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future > holds. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 21:53:16 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:53:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <64CFD007-D2BD-4445-BD80-9491F49110E2@bnj.com> Hey, Racer Bud, how did I get dropped from the newsletter. I thought the only way to unsubscribe was to kick. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:18 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > Wonderful stuff I'm gonna forward it to my newsletter Gang > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: michael cook > To: Clark W. Nicholls ; fot at autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party > CSPRRC 1975 > > We had that party at every Road Atlanta Run-Offs for about ten > years. Theoretically it was only for drivers and crews of British > Leyland cars but when we expected maybe 300 people we always got > about 500. In 1971 or 72 we had the Playmate of the Year as a guest. > Another year, Paul Newman brought in a rather large "professional" > lady from Atlanta and had her go after Bob Tullius. She was only > wearing something like a toga which didn't cover much. > > We had to be careful at one end of the party room because it was > close to a church and it was illegal to drink liquor within a > certain distance from a church. So there was a rope stretched across > the hall about 20 feet from the end wall and you could not have > alcohol on the other side of the rope. > > You had to have a private party in those early days to get a drink > in Gainesville. We all had to imbibe freely before the Sunday night > victory banquet because on Sunday even private parties were veboten > and there were security guards stationed outside the Holiday Inn > Hall, checking the guests for suspicious packages or concealed > bottles. > > Actually, the British Leyland cocktail party began at the original > "experimental" Run-Offs at Riverside and Daytona. I think the first > one was at Riverside in 1968 and the host was a west coast PR agent > named Ian Dunne who did the publicity for Kas's team. At Daytona we > crammed ourselves into a room at the Daytona Plaza and honored a > female driver ... Eloise Norris from Texas who raced a Mini. I have > a picture of a cake we had made in the shape of a Mini. > > I don't have many photos - too busy being a good host and besides, > one hand was occupied by a glass of JD. Or somethi9ng called > Lightning Creek - memory of that is a bit hazy. > > No special diets, no vitamin drinks, no early to bed. Drivers could > always come to the BL motor home in the paddock for black coffee and > donuts the next morning. > > And there was great racing while the drug-running Whittington > brothers who owned the track flew low over the circuit in a P-51 and > a Bell AiroCobra. > > Since Clark asked, do you have anythiong to add Ted? > > Mike Cook > > > > From: cwn74 at aol.com > To: fot at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:46:29 -0400 > Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC > 1975 > > > I remember meeting and chatting with Phil Hill at the 1975 British > Leyland party at the SCCA CSPRRC (Champion Spark Plug Road Racing > Classic at Road Atlanta) at the Gainesville Holiday Inn. > > Boy were those the glory days! > > David Hobbs was there as were the BL team. > The 3 Mikes: Mike Dale (drove a bug-eye at the time), Mike Cook (we > all know Mike!) and Mike Barratt (east coast competition guru, I'm > still driving his carb rebuild on my Spitfire). > Group 44, Huffaker, all the drivers and crew of BL products (MG, AH, > Triumph, Jaguar) were there. > A grand time was had by all! > If only I took photos! > > Perhaps Mike Cook and Ted Schumacher can expand on this gala event! > > My claim to fame was suggesting they have Watneys Red Barrel at this > event (the bar had only 'merican brews). The next year we had Watneys! > http://www.retrowow.co.uk/retro_britain/keg_bitter/watneys_red_barrel.html > > > Clark > Clark W. Nicholls > '72 Stag '74 Spitfire > "Reality... It's not what you think. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:05:48 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:05:48 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:13:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:13:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed-- your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > I understand the intent.... > > When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the > understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to > pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. > > Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? > > One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to > allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session > and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. > > When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini > Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation > was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use > that information in order to make a safe pass. > > I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage > group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule > is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if > you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be > agreed before cars hit the track. > > It all comes down to communication. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > too many toys, not enough $$$ > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of Bill Babcock > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete > before reading. > > > I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the > "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed > that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was > traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want > to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why > were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to > be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed > and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to > the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place > that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. > > There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you > are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this > guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always > passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally > lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the > line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to > drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the > most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. > I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up > on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower > than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect > for that, lift and wait. > > If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path > through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you > can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd > have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in > any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was > to blame, but you are responsible. > > We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with > picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you > don't belong anywhere near the racing line. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Steven, >> >> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >> events... so >> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >> games feel >> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >> "Days of >> Thunder" once too often ;) >> >> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >> idea to >> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >> them the >> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >> To: FOT >> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced >> at >> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >> This meant I >> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them >> cool so >> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was >> in the >> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what >> I needed >> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and >> feeling >> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >> done >> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >> "Warm-up" >> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >> him to the >> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >> close to the >> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >> DIRT at >> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw >> some >> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >> yellow >> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >> lap time >> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >> and made me >> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >> best to get >> my job done safely and get off >> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's >> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >> money." >> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their >> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move >> and >> you're in big trouble. >> >> ~SB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future >> holds. >> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> http://www.fot-racing.com >> >> Fot mailing list >> Fot at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >> > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet > tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:24:25 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:24:25 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:25:37 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:25:37 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Thu Sep 25 22:31:08 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (colordog.1 at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:31:08 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: <965138683-1222403544-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1387949309-@bxe005.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please don't continue with the pee funnel topic either. Steve ------Original Message------ From: Tony Drews Sender: fot-bounces at autox.team.net To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sep 25, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Death & racing Hey, ya'll wouldn't mind changing the subject, would you? - Tony Drews _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From budscars at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 22:33:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... Racer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: 'Bill Babcock' Cc: 'FOT' Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:37:22 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:37:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:38:36 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:38:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00eb01c91f91$be87ce60$fc503542@jrg> I won't argue against your points in a race session. But the orginal point was that it happened in an early practice session. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that generally a time for racers to figure if the car is running correctly, and for newcomers to the track to figure the track correctly? So.. doing a full bore racing manuever in that scenario might be a bit... wrong? Yeah, I've only done 2 weekends on track. But somehow even I don't think I should be scaring the chickens that early in the morning. Lemme take control. Assume I'm doing brake checks during a race session. If you blow by me in this scenario.. I won't blame you. I'm doing the dumb*ss thing. But in the first warm up session in the morning? Come on. Think about it, before putting fingers on keyboard. That's the essential reason that accidents happen. People don't think about what they're doing, when they do it. And the people around them don't expect it. But let's separate blatantley stupid driving from possibly normal warmup procedures. Cheers, Jim Dallas Too many toys, not enough time _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:26 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: britbits at netzero.com; 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ____________________________________________________________ Stop losing your hair. Click to restore your hair. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uQUmK9hKxhJGomxOdWv94q9K1lfcQrS0QzImXxTCCceshca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 22:44:08 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:44:08 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <00ff01c91f92$84615f70$fc503542@jrg> Actually, I have no issues with being on track with you. As long as we're clear on the rules. If whatever groups says "stay on line".. I'll stay on line and expect you to have a clue on what that means. And if they say "go off line if you're slow" then I'll go off line. Pretty simple, isn't it? And at the end of the day I'll have the playboy bunnies as I'll have been the "nice'" racer. ;) Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:37 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 22:45:18 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> <05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> Message-ID: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would > be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, > thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year > VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and > Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have > fun with the rest. > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: > >> Define "speed". >> >> Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, >> or the normal speed of the run group? >> >> If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced >> speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal >> definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? >> >> What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or >> predicable drivers? What's safer? >> >> Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up >> session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that >> scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? >> >> Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? >> >> Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? >> >> Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate >> sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. >> >> We're just supposed to be out there having fun. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> >> >> >> From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was >> talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, >> in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing >> organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on >> the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe >> nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able >> to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I >> bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >>> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted >>> to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >>> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If >>> it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >>> before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >>> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >>> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >>> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at >>> speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are >>> driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is >>> the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >>> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >>> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >>> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >>> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor >>> told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I >>> considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any >>> day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In >>> contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, >>> they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where >>> they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>>> idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>>> done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>>> him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble. >>>> >>>> ~SB >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>>> Future holds. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>>> >>>> Fot mailing list >>>> Fot at autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>>> >>> >>> Bill Babcock >>> Babcock & Jenkins >>> Billb at bnj.com >>> 503.936.7660 >>> www.bnj.com >>> >>> Editor >>> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >>> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >>> >>> Bill at kenalu.com >>> www.kenalu.com >>> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >>> diet tips and solutions. >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel >> online. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:01:38 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:01:38 EDT Subject: [Fot] Death & racing Message-ID: Amen to that!! Thanks Tony. Gary Fuqua **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:07:12 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:07:12 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg> Message-ID: I remember them fondly. In fact I think one of Kas' books has a picture of Peyote and I surrounded by a bevy of them. Cute little buggers, lots of pink and white spandex, and friendly too. I wanted to take some home, but I don't think that would have worked out all that well. I was just interested in the shade, honest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:33 PM, RACER BUD wrote: > I like Playboy Bunnies...A Lot...They ARE fun...and...That's part of > the whole Motor Racing Glamour...Old Movies like Grand > Prix...LeMans...A Man and a Woman.....we had Umbrella Girls at the > CSRG Charity Challenge 3 years ago...Wooohoo!..We laugh a lot in the > pits during our CSRG Races...Our Gang has a Great Time... > Racer Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim > To: 'Bill Babcock' > Cc: 'FOT' > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Define "speed". > > Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, > or the normal speed of the run group? > > If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced > speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal > definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? > > What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or > predicable drivers? What's safer? > > Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up > session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that > scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? > > Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? > > Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? > > Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate > sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. > > We're just supposed to be out there having fun. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > > > From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM > To: britbits at netzero.com > Cc: 'FOT' > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing > speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move > off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. > The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is > responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was > talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, > in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing > organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the > line then. > > Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe > nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able > to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I > bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. > > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: > >> I understand the intent.... >> >> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the >> understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to >> pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. >> >> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >> >> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to >> allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >> >> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car >> should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >> >> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage >> group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the >> rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's >> "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to >> be agreed before cars hit the track. >> >> It all comes down to communication. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim >> Dallas >> too many toys, not enough $$$ >> >> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >> To: britbits at netzero.com >> Cc: 'FOT' >> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >> >> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete >> before reading. >> >> >> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want >> to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why >> were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to >> be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed >> and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to >> the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place >> that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. >> >> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you >> are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this >> guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I >> always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was >> driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told >> him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him >> the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the >> track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you >> come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH >> slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but >> respect for that, lift and wait. >> >> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind >> you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner-- >> they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's >> dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the >> other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >> >> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> Steven, >>> >>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>> events... so >>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>> games feel >>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw >>> "Days of >>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>> >>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad >>> idea to >>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>> them the >>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>> To: FOT >>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>> raced at >>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>> This meant I >>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>> them cool so >>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>> was in the >>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>> what I needed >>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>> and feeling >>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about >>> done >>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first >>> "Warm-up" >>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved >>> him to the >>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>> close to the >>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE >>> DIRT at >>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>> threw some >>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a >>> yellow >>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his >>> lap time >>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>> and made me >>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>> best to get >>> my job done safely and get off >>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>> it's >>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize >>> money." >>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>> their >>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>> move and >>> you're in big trouble. >>> >>> ~SB >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your >>> Future holds. >>> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> http://www.fot-racing.com >>> >>> Fot mailing list >>> Fot at autox.team.net >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot >>> >> >> Bill Babcock >> Babcock & Jenkins >> Billb at bnj.com >> 503.936.7660 >> www.bnj.com >> >> Editor >> Ke Nalu e-Magazine >> Paddlesurfing's Web Journal >> >> Bill at kenalu.com >> www.kenalu.com >> blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for >> diet tips and solutions. > > Bill Babcock > Babcock & Jenkins > Billb at bnj.com > 503.936.7660 > www.bnj.com > > Editor > Ke Nalu e-Magazine > Paddlesurfing's Web Journal > > Bill at kenalu.com > www.kenalu.com > blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:09:01 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:09:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><00c801c91f8f$c320a250$fc503542@jrg><05F3D20C-36FF-4245-A84E-5E8F6E7C9A55@bnj.com> <27C707D1-31D2-4DB1-9A36-431BCF8BE76C@bnj.com> Message-ID: <012101c91f95$fe5c9bc0$fc503542@jrg> Gee thanks. This is making me reconsider my effort to put togther a vintage race Spitire (got a couple potentials in the barn) as I'm not really sure I want to be affiliated with the racing mentaliity I'm seeing tonight. On the vintage racing scene the Mini drivers have seemed to be a more reasonable lot. Maybe that's the tack I'll follow in the future. Thanks for being on the FOT list. Sorry I didn't meet the entrane requirement of being a b*tth*le. Cheers, Jim Dallas Spitfire(s) and other toys. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:45 PM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Oops, I forgot, Pittsburg Grand Prix, Watkins Glen, and Beaverrun (last year) On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:37 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: And if you're intent on staying off the tracks I race on, that would be most of the west cost (PIR, Seattle Raceways, Mission, thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Willow Springs) plus last year VIR, Brainerd, Grattan, Road America, Road Atlanta, Limerock, and Mosport. I expect to do Miller, and Barbur next year as well. Have fun with the rest. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Jim wrote: Define "speed". Is it the speed your car is capable of... your personal preference, or the normal speed of the run group? If Steve was running around the track at some really reduced speed... yeah, he should move off line. But what's the legal definition? 10mph slower? 20? 30? Who defines that? What's more important on a race course? A clear line? Or predicable drivers? What's safer? Keeping in mind that the scenario is also an early morning warm up session. Do you pull full rev full bore racing moves in that scenario? Where do you race? So I can avoid those tracks? Or did you read the original post at all? Going by too fast to read? Or should I slow down my questions so you can understand? Anyway... what's the ultimate goal of this mess? Corporate sponsorship and playboy bunnies? That was 30+ year ago. We're just supposed to be out there having fun. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: Bill Babcock [mailto:Billb at bnj.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:14 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble. ~SB _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find answers for Love, Problems, and what your Future holds. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4sufAJOayzbWQtj71HjwvM2 L2ShWzEzSvnDvza8yJPMIlDpj/ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog ____________________________________________________________ Orlando Vacations - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uGWEce7IsFzNhi7xTVixlHPtdiIQ3cBkR1WCWkhu72GOf7w/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:15:57 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:15:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:19:37 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:19:37 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:23:02 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:23:02 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c91f97$f4099040$c2523542@jrg> Gary, I'm movin' on. It's been interesting... but the noise to signal level has gotten too great lately. Time to move on. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com [mailto:GSFuqua1 at aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:20 AM To: Billb at bnj.com; britbits at netzero.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving OK boys, time to quit pissing on each others legs. Points made & taken. Can we move on to something else? Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Love Music? Get a degree in Musical Education. Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vGvDJ1b3Ut25IsB2futtu2SOC7Y17bLJvEKP4OWxqLTeFgy/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Thu Sep 25 23:26:01 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:26:01 EDT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Message-ID: My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From quicktr4 at comcast.net Thu Sep 25 23:44:21 2008 From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:44:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:37:06 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:37:06 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall safety of the group. After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to our camp/towbeasts? So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my car. Again.. my decision. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and that of others I race with. Cheers, Gary _____ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ____________________________________________________________ Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film school near you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWY5idilhSq8QjPaYQfAOFZQGwscO80OlTBrLr13J7sns/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Thu Sep 25 23:48:47 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:48:47 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9567A579-998A-4BBA-A715-0EC124E86589@bnj.com> It's always a little confusing Gary, and I was really trying to be helpful. If you're at speed--your speed, whatever that is, then stay on the line. It's the overtaking driver's responsibility to pass you safely. If you're fiddling around, or something's wrong, or there is a reason why you're not at speed, stay well away from the line. I've been in this situation many times myself, trying to figure out something about my car, or dealing with an issue. At those times you need to be extremely cognizant that there may be people coming up behind you that are more committed to a line than you are. Unfortunately there really isn't a "right". I've been to tracks where the organizing body makes a big deal about pointing people by. But that can really be a problem--overtaking drivers probably have a plan to get by you. Telling them which side to pass you may be very problematic, especially if you're a relatively new driver. If you point to the left you are probably going to automatically drift right. Which may be where they were headed. That can turn a simple pass into a pretty exciting moment for everyone. Some organizing bodies go the other way and make a big deal about NOT pointing people by IF YOU ARE AT SPEED. I prefer that, but I can deal with either. I'm really not in that much of a hurry, and most vintage racers aren't either, but I understand how people can wind up committed to a line. If you are not creeping around, then don't worry about it, drive your line, race your race. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:15 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote: > Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told > to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to > pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is > where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't > have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know > what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is > going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold > them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around > the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at > Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple > digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line > was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that > happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. > > I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for > one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just > someone's opinion. > > Thanks for listening. > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britbits at netzero.com Thu Sep 25 23:51:52 2008 From: britbits at netzero.com (Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <005c01c91f9b$fb054bb0$c2523542@jrg> I've only raced with CVAR. What is the guideline in other vintage groups? In CVAR the rule (law) is that you drive your line. Anyone making a pass has to respect YOUR line. I've never had it qualified for if you're doing brake tests, engine run in, etc. If you are in front, you run the line. Obviously, if the car is sick and you're just nursing it to the pits, you run off line and let the run group through. Common sense. Unless you're at speed. Whatever "reasonable" speed might be at that point on the track. Then you keep running the "line". So.. good luck in the future. Cheers, Jim Dallas _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of quicktr4 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:44 AM To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT'; britbits at netzero.com Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble _____ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ____________________________________________________________ Click here for easy weight loss help and diet information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4unVt4TsgIIfTXLJGtoYA9uaoLvwWSTBxFNkusDDIofER7Ai/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 00:08:56 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:08:56 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> References: <004001c91f99$eae540c0$c2523542@jrg> Message-ID: You do realize Jim that you've only been talking to me? For myself, I'd say "don't let the door hit you in the ass" but there's 200+ far nicer people in the FOT. On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:37 PM, Jim wrote: > Perfectly reasonable question to ask. It applies to the overall > safety of the group. > > After all.. when the day is done.. don't we ALL want to walk back to > our camp/towbeasts? > > So if I've seemed to be at odds with the group... I don't like > suggestions that put safety at risk. Life/death should not be the > essential question when you go racing.. but mentality that puts it > more at risk really makes me wonder if I want to go back on track. > > If I don't go, so be it. It's my decision. > > Based on tonight I dont't have a warm fuzzy about putting FOT on my > car. > > Again.. my decision. > > > Cheers, > > Jim > Dallas > > From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:26 AM > To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com > Cc: fot at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving > > My thanks but next weekend at Hallett I will be asking this question > of he head instructor again....Just to clarify for my own safety and > that of others I race with. > > Cheers, > > Gary > > > > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Turn your passion into a profession. Click here to find a film > school near you. Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtalbott at archrepro.com Fri Sep 26 00:20:01 2008 From: dtalbott at archrepro.com (David Talbott) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:20:01 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> Message-ID: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Is you is, or is you ain't on the line? Assuming that you have clearly signaled your intention by waving someone around can be a problem if the overtaking car doesn't see the wave, or if he's is already committed to the line. Without having been there, it's unclear to me what the "red 2002" perceived as he approached the slower car saw in front of him. Moving "a bit to the right" and being "pretty close to the line" may have communicated very mixed signals to others who are halfway through a green flag session - even if it is just a morning warm up to some. Carroll Smith always talked about carrying a spare set of brake pads in his brief case that he had bedded on a test day just so he never had to worry about it on a race weekend. That's not to say that you can't (carefully) bed brakes or heat cycle (and cool)sticker tires during a hot session, but do your best to make your intentions obvious and stay the hell outta the fast line as much as you can. Even that can be tricky when you're transiting through connected left-right corners like esses. Dave Talbott ----- Original Message ----- From: quicktr4 To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving a point around is mearly an idication the driver is aware of your presence and leaving the pass to you. of course he is going to drive the line. yo have to pass in a safe maner. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Babcock To: Bill Babcock Cc: 'FOT' ; britbits at netzero.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed to be on the line then. Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: I understand the intent.... When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe pass. Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. It all comes down to communication. Cheers, Jim Dallas too many toys, not enough $$$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM To: britbits at netzero.com Cc: 'FOT' Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to delete before reading. I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, then you do. There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and wait. If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: Steven, Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage events... so some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC games feel they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they saw "Days of Thunder" once too often ;) Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a bad idea to install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show them the video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. Cheers, Jim Dallas -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Belfer Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I raced at Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. This meant I needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let them cool so I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I was in the first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys what I needed to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine and feeling that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just about done bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the first "Warm-up" session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON THE DIRT at full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, threw some rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with a yellow P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice his lap time when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise and made me angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my best to get my job done safely and get off the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if it's dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no prize money." I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of their machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag move and you're in big trouble ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Fri Sep 26 02:21:18 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving References: Message-ID: it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 07:25:18 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:25:18 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ...and to a lot of us, that defines the 8/10's rule. Racing just as hard as you can, coming up on a slower car approaching the apex and giving up the pass because you know he will be taking the line. You go 8/10's. If you are going to keep up with the guy you are stalking you may have to go more than 10/10's, getting to the edge of the grass and kicking up the gravel or use you're edgy, maybe risky, off line driving skills. In vintage most times we take it safe and slow it up to either go around or take a position in line behind the slower car, knowing that our prey is getting away. That is what we do in vintage, apologies to Bob Tullias. The above has nothing to do with the car that is out there bedding brakes or breaking in the engine. When we are on the track, practice or not the line is for racing. The other drivers won't know what we are doing and as Bill accurately pointed out if someone is going at a vastly slower speed the pointing thing doesn't always work. When in doubt we get in line. So Gary, I don't have a speedo in my car, and I rarely look at the dash at the end of either of those straights. Just how fast are you going at the end of the Hallett straight? Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:16 AM To: britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary ________________________________ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dotts46 at aol.com Fri Sep 26 07:31:24 2008 From: dotts46 at aol.com (dotts46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:31:24 -0400 Subject: [Fot] New email address Message-ID: <8CAEDF34E76D8E8-1480-2485@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com> Please note new email address for Dan Otts dotts46 at q.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dos_gusanos at msn.com Fri Sep 26 08:09:48 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:09:48 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Back at the old Skippy school, the instructors often said, "If you're ahead of , oh say, Henry Morrison, it's your corner. If it's Mario Andretti coming up behind you, it's his corner." It's all a balancing act of knowing your abilities and situational awareness with the ultimate goal of getting your car back to the pits in one piece as close to the front of the pack as possible........................... From: budscars at comcast.netTo: GSFuqua1 at aol.com; britbits at netzero.com; Billb at bnj.comDate: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:21:18 -0700CC: fot at autox.team.netSubject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving it's really best to hold your line, for the exact reason you have said....Although it is often quite a teeth gritting experience raccer Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com To: britbits at netzero.com ; Billb at bnj.com Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving Having just finished a driving school I can safely say we were told to hold the line and be aware there was a car coming up on us to pass. We were told repeatedly NOT to leave the line because that is where the over taking driver expected us to be. Personally I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other. I just know what I was told. I try very hard to be aware of everything that is going on, including cars coming up on me. I do my best not to hold them up by moving over when it is safe but I'm not creeping around the track either. I hit the end of the straight in triple digits at Hallett and TWS. Someone coming up on me may indeed be doing triple digit plus but I was told if I got to the corner first then the line was mine and they had to wait to pass. Again I try not to let that happen in corners but sometimes that can't be avoided. I guess my point here is there seems to be some confusion and I for one would really like to know what is "Right" and what is just someone's opinion. Thanks for listening. Gary Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. _______________________________________________Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.htmlhttp://www.fot-racing.comFot mailing listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrybarr at charter.net Fri Sep 26 08:18:11 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:18:11 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> Message-ID: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> I would think if you are moving less than your racing speed you should have a hand in the air as a signal that you are slowing. If you are racing at the speed you are capable of then you have the line. Just my 2 cents worth. On Sep 25, 2008, at 11:25 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > I reread everything to see If I'm just being a jerk, and I come > away convinced that while I might be a jerk, I'm right. Steven > says " A red 2002 is approaching me and I waved him to the left and > moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty close to the > line." OK, that sounds really, really, really bad to me. > > On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Bill Babcock wrote: > >> Actually, it all comes down to whether or not you are at racing >> speed--your racing speed. You are not required or expected to move >> off the line if you are at speed. In fact it's a really bad idea. >> The overtaking drivers expect you to hold to your line, and he is >> responsible for managing the pass in a safe manner. What Steven >> was talking about is being on the line when he was NOT at racing >> speed, in other words, when he did not need to be there. And in >> any racing organization--vintage, SCCA or F1, you are NOT supposed >> to be on the line then. >> >> Bedding your brakes and breaking your engine in on line is not >> safe nor is it wise driving. People coming up behind you may not >> be able to go where you point them. I wasn't there so I couldn't >> say, but I bet that guy didn't go into the dirt because he wanted to. >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Jim wrote: >> >>> I understand the intent.... >>> >>> When I went through my drivers school in a vintage race group, >>> the understanding was that you "drove the line". If someone >>> wanted to pass you, it was their RESPONSIBILITY to make a safe >>> pass. >>> >>> Or is responsibility not a word to mention in this forum? >>> >>> One of the other racers shared an anecdote of "moving off line" >>> to allow easier passing.. and having a racer come in after that >>> session and give him a new oriface for violating the basic rule. >>> >>> When I was active in Vintage I was in a close cockpit car (Mini >>> Cooper S) so giving hand signals was difficult. But my >>> expectation was that if I was signalling right.. the overtaking >>> car should use that information in order to make a safe pass. >>> >>> I guess it's something that needs to be discussed with each >>> vintage group and a consensus formed before racers go on track. >>> If the rule is "stay on the line" then one set of rule apply. >>> If it's "if you're not at speed pick a different line" that also >>> needs to be agreed before cars hit the track. >>> >>> It all comes down to communication. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim >>> Dallas >>> too many toys, not enough $$$ >>> >>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock >>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:51 PM >>> To: britbits at netzero.com >>> Cc: 'FOT' >>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>> >>> You may not like this answer, so here's your opportunity to >>> delete before reading. >>> >>> >>> I, and I'll bet many other people in the FOT, have been in the >>> "douchebag's position before, when some guy traveling at a speed >>> that did NOT NEED to be at the line, pointed me by while I was >>> traveling at full chat--and pointed me into a place I did not >>> want to go. So my question is, if you were traveling that slowly, >>> why were you "pretty close to the line"? The line is where you >>> need to be when you need to be there, in other words, when you >>> are at speed and it's the only safe way through a corner. If you >>> are driving to the line, you don't need to be there. If the line >>> is the only place that the laws of physics permit your car to be, >>> then you do. >>> >>> There's a reason why they say in any good driver's meeting "if >>> you are not at racing speed, get off the line". Several years ago >>> this guy who drove a car at what I considered 3/10s asked me why >>> I always passed him so closely. I, and the entire race group, >>> generally lapped him at least twice, sometimes three times. He >>> was driving the line, precisely. Just where his driving >>> instructor told him to drive. And he never deviated from the >>> line. I considered him the most dangerous thing I would encounter >>> in any day on the the track. I was thrilled when he quit >>> "racing". In contrast, when you come up on a gaggle of FV's >>> battling it out, they might be 20 MPH slower than you, but they >>> need to be where they are. Nothing but respect for that, lift and >>> wait. >>> >>> If you aren't at the limit, then you are blocking the only safe >>> path through the course at speed. the guys who are coming up >>> behind you can't tuck in behind and wait for you to finish a >>> corner--they'd have to stand on their brakes to do that, and >>> that's dangerous in any racing condition. As Burt Levy might say, >>> the other driver was to blame, but you are responsible. >>> >>> We really DO call this racing. Vintage events are car shows with >>> picnics. Vintage races are races. If you are not at racing speed >>> you don't belong anywhere near the racing line. >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Jim wrote: >>> >>>> Steven, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately they use the "r" word when describing vintage >>>> events... so >>>> some of the "kids" who loved Pole Position or the different PC >>>> games feel >>>> they need to drive like a jerk to be a "racer". Or maybe they >>>> saw "Days of >>>> Thunder" once too often ;) >>>> >>>> Aside from keeping an eye on the mirrors, it's probably not a >>>> bad idea to >>>> install an in car camera. Next time.. grab an official and show >>>> them the >>>> video. It's kind of hard to argue against a video. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> Dallas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot- >>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steven Belfer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:24 PM >>>> To: FOT >>>> Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving >>>> >>>> Speaking of dangerous driving situations, two weekends ago I >>>> raced at >>>> Buttonwillow in my TR3. I had new brakes that needed bedding. >>>> This meant I >>>> needed to heat up my brakes in the first practice session, let >>>> them cool so >>>> I could have good braking power for the rest of the weekend. I >>>> was in the >>>> first group so at 8:30am, I told the proper official-type guys >>>> what I needed >>>> to do and started in the back. I'm also running a fresh engine >>>> and feeling >>>> that out as well. Anyway, after about 3 or 4 laps I'm just >>>> about done >>>> bedding the brakes and I'm about to get lapped. This is the >>>> first "Warm-up" >>>> session of the weekend. A red 2002 is approaching me and I >>>> waved him to the >>>> left and moved to the right a little bit, while staying pretty >>>> close to the >>>> line. Next thing I know the guy is passing me on the right ON >>>> THE DIRT at >>>> full speed. He re-entered the track, got a little squirrelly, >>>> threw some >>>> rocks onto my car and kept going. This guy was racing hard with >>>> a yellow >>>> P1800 and not letting up one bit. He didn't want to sacrifice >>>> his lap time >>>> when overtaking me. The level of aggression took me by surprise >>>> and made me >>>> angry. It was, after all the morning warm-up and I truly did my >>>> best to get >>>> my job done safely and get off >>>> the race track. I tell my friends and family, when they ask if >>>> it's >>>> dangerous, "You see, it's a gentlemen's sport and there's no >>>> prize money." >>>> I would say that most of the drivers are safe and respectful of >>>> their >>>> machines and their abilities but all it takes is one douchebag >>>> move and >>>> you're in big trouble > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 08:38:11 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:38:11 EDT Subject: [Fot] Home at last Message-ID: Outrageous FOT behavior to be encouraged. Three races, starting with the Glen. And one pending. Great personal accounts of the experience. It puts "FOT" in large caps. > Hello all, > Got home Tues. night and had the last chapter in our saga ready to > send this morning. One wrong click of the wrong button and it was > gone. As I recall, the opening sentence was "3 races, 24 days and > 6849 miles later and Barley the Plum Pi and I are finally home". Went > on to profusely thank Tony Drews for the borrowed ride, Tim Murphy > for the borrowed house and everyone else for the borrowed fun. > Have to cut this short as Barley, I and a BMW 2002 [turn-coat I know] > are headed for the Pueblo [Colorado] Enduro tomorrow am. The rest of > the story will follow. > I do have to put out my greatest thanks to Tony Drews for the drive > in last weekends enduro at Road America What A Guy! What A Car! > Hey Tony, did I remember to say THANKS!!? > > Greg "Lunker" Hilyer > TR4 #314 > Albuquerque NM > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 10:45:06 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:45:06 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg><8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com><00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg><6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> Message-ID: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This may not be a vintage race though. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en From N197TR4 at cs.com Fri Sep 26 10:58:04 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:58:04 EDT Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! Message-ID: FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Fri Sep 26 11:07:53 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:07:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> Message-ID: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." Patience comes to mind. If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if someone is chasing him, still dumb move. If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. A. 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 11:12:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:12:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Interesting Watkins Glen Video In-Reply-To: <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net> <005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <5DF8674E35574D87A73853B2C05A9AF6@quickfure2vk6w> <00f201c91f9f$e8c8baa0$6601a8c0@LatitudeD530> <0DF890C1-8258-4358-B618-439635A80F36@bnj.com> <4362ae390809261007g4abb6a07n7d6b0d6c98d5b7f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468082C8-4001-414C-B2B4-B3AB5CAA587B@bnj.com> From the look of the field that passed him during the spin, I'd say he had a lot on his bumper, and he would have had lousy corner exit speed, so the train may have nailed him. Still, it's hard to win a race when you're plastered on the guard rail. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Andre Rousseau wrote: > I like the video quote, "driver gets stuck in the wrong place." > > Patience comes to mind. > > If he had waited a whole few seconds more, but you don't know if > someone is chasing him, still dumb move. > > If I was the guy in the Miata I'd be a bit mad. > > A. > > > 2008/9/26 Bill Babcock > Sure glad that isn't me. Nasty spot to get yourself into. This is > where 8/10s comes in I guess. I'm pretty sure I would have lifted and > waited for the straight--but that's mostly because this set of turns > going over the bridge scares the sh*t out of me to begin with. This > may not be a vintage race though. > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7958267554041595094&hl=en > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > > > -- > Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca > '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ > Ottawa, ON, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From triosan at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 11:53:42 2008 From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:53:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale Message-ID: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: *Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers* Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 12:25:28 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: > Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots > might be interested: > > Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers > > > Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. > I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist > and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. > > > I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to > street standards. This special car includes: > > A new engine?fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The > cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. > > New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker > shaft. > > Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of > 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. > > Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable > ignition timing > > Electronic tach. > > Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with > Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss > great!) > > Hi torque starter motor > > Newly cored stock radiator > > A new paint job -white over previous white. > > A new professionally installed convetable top. > > New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 > rears. > > A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw > out bearing > > A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential > > Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar > > New brakes and stainless brake lines > > Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion > > Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. > > Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar > > 5 Point Sparco seat belts > > OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. > > Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. > > > The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well?probably > 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for > track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an > uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. > There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working > on fixing that problem. > > > Pictures are available at: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# > > > I am asking $8000 for it. > > > > -- > Chuck Arnold > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colordog.1 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 26 12:57:42 2008 From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:57:42 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Bedding Brakes, dangerous driving In-Reply-To: <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> References: <518E5A0F-1855-4A41-BE1A-B830B6C72996@earthlink.net><005801c91f73$de447be0$fc503542@jrg> <8E44729B-5E67-4D91-961C-3B0995151A64@bnj.com> <00b401c91f8d$295313d0$fc503542@jrg> <6ACDB712-BF60-4ED9-8EAD-A1A3E6DB6C34@bnj.com> <3C02E6AB-436A-407B-A72F-BC3EAB1F128D@charter.net> Message-ID: Without defending my awe-inspiring race car driving, let me just say that I was trying my best, having a blast, 100% focused on being a good driver. So was the other guy, who, by the way was hauling a$$. He passed me in the dirt, how ungentlemanly of him. ~Steve From ablake2 at austin.rr.com Fri Sep 26 14:27:29 2008 From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:29 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal Message-ID: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> 97 520-170 N/A SEAL Purolator Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Mine was toast when disassembled and Moss has it listed as N/A. Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Fri Sep 26 13:43:38 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.tobin3 at verizon.net Fri Sep 26 16:18:15 2008 From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:18:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! References: Message-ID: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Also Ed's wife Linda, "The Better Diehl!" She was very friendly, encouraging, and helped me get belted in a couple times. As did their friend Tony A to Z, Funny, in 1971 I used to help him (Tony) get belted into Oscar's McLaren! Funny how things are. Anyone going to the VRG race at the Glen in Oct? Take care all, Bill----- Original Message ----- From: Kramer, Robert To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I'm sure some of the other "legends" whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our "issues". It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of N197TR4 at cs.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:58 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! FOT List, Perhaps you noticed............................................................................. Two of our favorite Triumph folks graced us with their presence at the Glen. Hardy Prentice and Jack Wheeler. Both SCCA Champions in Triumphs, TR3 and TR4A, respectively. No formal introductions were arranged and I didnt get out Name Tags as I planned, but I think they managed to get out and about on their own pretty well. They came on their own dime and were there because they truly wanted to be. It's part of the magic of The Glen, but I am sure they wanted to be with us, too. They might have been part of The Legends Speak, but were perhaps too young to be Legends yet. Joe A ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Fri Sep 26 16:27:49 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> References: <06fb01c92025$c939ffb0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae> Message-ID: I really enjoyed seeing those guys. It's been more than a year since I last saw Hardy, which is much too long, he's one of my favorite people. A real pleasure meeting Jack Wheeler and Ed Diehl, great fun talking to them. I think they both thought Peyote was a little on the weird side, but then who doesn't? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Sep 26 16:28:30 2008 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Purolator filter head seal In-Reply-To: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> References: <00c801c92016$4c3a5370$6401a8c0@blake1> Message-ID: <1E9875A6B21A4C9DB11275DF4E235C45@jdnet.deere.com> > Does anyone have a source for this seal or dimensions? Dunno if it's actually in stock, but TRF has them listed. P/N 500328. Randall From jibjib at att.net Fri Sep 26 22:27:45 2008 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:27:45 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale In-Reply-To: <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com> <57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> Message-ID: <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Wow, and it's barely around the corner. Hey Bill, we can work this out. I have the space, but not the funds. Sounds like an even split to me. Jack _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Babcock Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:25 AM To: Chuck Arnold Cc: TR list; Triumph; Friends Subject: Re: [Fot] Hot,Special 74 TR6 for sale sounds like a great deal chuck, I'd be all over it if I had the space. On Sep 26, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Arnold wrote: Sorry to bomb the lists, but thought someone of my list compatriots might be interested: Special Hot '74 TR6 for sale: Toyota Trans, Nissan Diff, Webers Time to sell my beloved "Triosan" as the race car gods must be fed. I am posting it on the Triumph lists prior to going to Craigslist and e-Bay. Car is in Seattle. I have spent over $6000 just to get my former track day car back to street standards. This special car includes: A new engine-fresh rods,crank prep, rods, pistons and bearings. The cam is a 292 degree with 4/10" lift at the valve. New valves, some head porting,10:1 compression, new hardened rocker shaft. Triple DCOE 40 Weber carbs with 34 mm chokes. Will include a set of 30 mm chokes and at least $300 of main, air and idle jets. Electromotive crank fired ignition with electronically adjustable ignition timing Electronic tach. Jet coated Pacesetter header into a single 2.5" exhaust with Flowmaster 50 muffler (a little noisy for street usebut soundss great!) Hi torque starter motor Newly cored stock radiator A new paint job -white over previous white. A new professionally installed convetable top. New high performace EuroTA 195x50 front tire with Kuhmo Ecsta 205x60 rears. A Herman Van Den Akker Toyota 5 speed conversion with linear throw out bearing A Goodparts 4.08:1 limited slip Nisssan differential Dual Tilton master cylinders with balance bar New brakes and stainless brake lines Spax adjustable front shocks, KYB rear shock conversion Nylatron bushings all around. New stiffer front and rear spings. Autopower roll bar with additional vertical and diagonal bar 5 Point Sparco seat belts OMP racing seats with sliders. Original seats available. Fuel cell with electric fuel pump and battery in trunk. The car is not perfect, but it is hot and runs very well-probably 150 HP at the wheels and it handles well. It does not have, but for track or autocross use probably needs a rear sway bar. Does have an uprated front bar. The horn is not connected but I have the parts. There is no fuel guage. Only one blinker functions but I am working on fixing that problem. Pictures are available at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Triosan/HotSpecialTR6ForSale# I am asking $8000 for it. -- Chuck Arnold _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rkramer3 at austin.rr.com Sat Sep 27 06:49:13 2008 From: rkramer3 at austin.rr.com (BOB KRAMER) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:49:13 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Sat Sep 27 08:26:16 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:26:16 -0700 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News Message-ID: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Sat Sep 27 08:31:42 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:31:42 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News RIP PLN NTXT In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: <8CAEEC4E50E6B48-BC-5933@WEBMAIL-MY28.sysops.aol.com> . From macdonaldp at rogers.com Sat Sep 27 09:38:06 2008 From: macdonaldp at rogers.com (Paul MacDonald) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:38:06 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More Sad News In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRg7UpSxO5g Check this out...pretty cool Paul -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Curry Sent: September 27, 2008 10:26 AM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] More Sad News I just learned that Paul Newman lost his final race today (Against Cancer) This seems to be a very sad year for racing drivers. Joe C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trmarty at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 09:57:53 2008 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 11:57:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One more on Ed. Last year Evelyn and I were at the Jekyll Island SEVTR event and we met Ed. Spent plenty of time socializing with him and both thought he was just one of the nicest Triumph folks around. In conversation he had just casually mentioned that he had raced a Spitfire in the past, nothing more. We were at the Legends portion at the Glen and they introduced Ed Diehl. I looked at Evelyn, holy crap.... had no idea we were hanging out with somebody famous last year. Hope to rub elbows again some time. Marty From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com To: N197TR4 at cs.com; fot at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [Fot] Prentice & Wheeler Thanks! I had a few opportunities to talk with Hardy and I was quite impressed with the man. Hardy had a great smile on his face that I describe as the one he must have earned with that SCCA Championship. I?m sure some of the other ?legends? whether young or older spent time in other areas of the paddock but Ed Diehl should get some kind of award. He jumped in and helped a couple of us with our ?issues?. It just proves that Triumph guys, Then, now and probably forever have a special bond. Only we know how much we need and appreciate each other. Bob Kramer _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 27 10:24:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:24:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> References: <35154002F2454E50A2E3AF7299B7209A@newcomputer> Message-ID: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hottr6 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 27 12:26:20 2008 From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:26:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] More sad news Message-ID: Amici, A good YouTube video of 2 cars that Newman drove (TR6 and 240Z). A few gaffes, but a great vid anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bv4y7o6BFs Shane Ingate, saddened in NM _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlcooknj at msn.com Sat Sep 27 13:32:50 2008 From: mlcooknj at msn.com (michael cook) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:32:50 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c91d20$2ad91ac0$92a81e62@woh.rr.com> <4F4900EC259D4F00AE7952DD6411CF6C@semperon3400> Message-ID: I was right about the film. A British Leyland news release about the film says: "Phil Hill and David Hobbs will be pace car drivers and Grand Marshalls at the SCCA run-offs at Road Atlanta, Oct. 31-Nov. 2." Mike From: mlcooknj at msn.comTo: cwn74 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:33:28 -0400Subject: Re: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975 I'll dig around and see if I can find something definite. Phil had been involved with the press introduction of the XJS which came out in fall, 1975 as a 1976 model. Phil owned one of the first ones delivered. It might also have had to do with the British Leyland film "America's Only Champion" made to honor Phil's winning the F1 Championship. Mike From: cwn74 at aol.comTo: mlcooknj at msn.com; fot at autox.team.netSubject: RE: [Fot] Phill Hill - Triumph - British Leyland party CSPRRC 1975Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:54:30 -0400 Mike, Any insight into the attendance at the party by Phil Hill? How did he happen to be there? Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sat Sep 27 13:44:44 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:44:44 EDT Subject: [Fot] ARE Steel Flywheels-One Left - TR3 TR4 Flywheels Produce TR6??? Message-ID: FOT, I did a production run of 20 Steel Flywheels this year. I have one left at the old price.. $399.00 plus shipping of $15.00. Unless I get another group order, I dont currently plan to produce more. The engineeing is done for the TR6 flywheel, but I will not launch this production without some advance orders. Because of commonality of manufacturing operations between the TR4 and the TR6, I can combine production of the two products, and get a some break on cost. I have the great fortune of having the CNC equipment about four blocks away from me, and a son who can do the engineering. Otherwise it just wouldnt happen at all. Contact me off list if there is interest. Thanks, Joe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sat Sep 27 16:28:04 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com> <13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <51C8F960-45FC-4BD5-868F-5D9BEC268064@bnj.com> Sounds expensive for an old trailer. You can have my four year old Pace for that, On Sep 27, 2008, at 5:49 AM, BOB KRAMER wrote: > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susank at 141.com Sun Sep 28 13:07:01 2008 From: susank at 141.com (Susan Kahler) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:07:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Hi everyone, I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run vintage with a VMC license. Thanks for any help you can give! Susan :) -- ** Oh, I would just KILL for a Nobel Peace Prize! ** From tr6nut at verizon.net Sun Sep 28 13:50:41 2008 From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:50:41 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? In-Reply-To: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> References: <48DFD5D5.1000409@141.com> Message-ID: <48DFE011.1000508@verizon.net> Susan, Don't know what constitutes "a day's drive" for you, but here's three Fall events: October 16/17, SVRA Season Final, Road Atlanta November 23-25, VRG Turkey Bowl, Summit Point, WV December 12-14, VDCA, Roebling Road (Savannah, GA) Also, if memory serves me, VDCA usually runs a February event at Carolina Motorsports Park. Susan Kahler wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I had been planning on going to Hallett next weekend to race to be able > to renew my license. My grandfather had a stroke Friday and I had to > cancel my race plans and will be going over to be with him and my family > instead. I will be moving to Kentucky on October 10th and won't be able > to get to the last CVAR race this fall. Is there a race weekend around > Kentucky sometime after the 10th that I could reasonably get to (within > a day's drive of Richmond) to be able to run either this fall or before > April 20, 2009 (my license expiration)? I am prepared for and run > vintage with a VMC license. > > Thanks for any help you can give! > > Susan :) > > From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:02:39 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:02:39 EDT Subject: [Fot] Race weekend near Kentucky? Message-ID: Susan, I so sorry to hear your news. I have been there with my folks as well. I certainly hope things go well for your grandfather and family. Your priorities are certainly in order. Hopefully you can make the Road Atlanta event. I would love to run there and have the Mitty on my schedule for next year in May. Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you or Brad. Cheers & God Bless, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GSFuqua1 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 14:56:28 2008 From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:56:28 EDT Subject: [Fot] Uncle Jack Decals for Hallett Message-ID: Just a note to let everyone know I have received a packet of Uncle Jack Decals which I will have with me at Hallett. Thanks Joe A. !! Cheers, Gary **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Sun Sep 28 16:00:06 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:00:06 GMT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijndXC4XQJF1JR0oE4MZWZvr54hlq3gPflqO9jCRokouzjzRo/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 16:40:22 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: do a search on YouTube Paul Newman Walters lime rock for video of Paul and Barbara at Lime Rock last year. Shot by my fellow pit marshal /videographer John Godfrey Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at microworks.net Sun Sep 28 17:41:51 2008 From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:41:51 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Lime Rock In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <20080928235020.POEW8615.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> Here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryb1lDSbSzY From s.janzen at comcast.net Sun Sep 28 19:10:18 2008 From: s.janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:10:18 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of because it would just sit on their lot all winter. A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted tires and rusty frame to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect condensation from the A/C unit. I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is mandatory. At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Sun Sep 28 19:57:58 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:57:58 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice In-Reply-To: <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> References: <8cbd782d0809261053j5c7263aay3ae34eb014557235@mail.gmail.com><57821A1B-F059-47B5-8FCF-464E658267DD@bnj.com><13D65EFE5F864B67AB89F3DFFA3AFC88@HPPavilion> <001301c9209f$7217a190$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <2F753DE09A81457FBB2A7765A090155E@vefadvisors.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. There's lots of really good trailers around selling for next to nothing. On Sep 28, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Scott Janzen wrote: > I am always amazed at the prices used trailers bring. I bought a > 20' dual axle Haulmark several years ago around this time at the > factory for about $4600. They are still about the same price, last > time I looked. BTW, Haulmark, and maybe others, has various > assembly plants around the country, so find one near you. I found > it on eBay, where a wholesaler listed trailers they contracted to > buy with a buy it now price, but didn't want to take delivery of > because it would just sit on their lot all winter. > A dealer told me late fall is a great time to buy an enclosed > trailer, as there is left-over stock (esp this year, I bet) and the > landscapers, etc are not buying at this time of year. > a ten year old trailer sounds like failing electrics, dry rotted > tires and rusty frame to me. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:49 AM > Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice > > Anyone out the knowledgeable on trailer construction? > > I have always enjoyed taking my car to the track on an open trailer. > You get a lot a waves and thumbs up but on this last trip I got a > dent. It is time or me to get an enclosed trailer. I found a used > one locally it has been used as a construction trailer for the last > 5 years after having carried around a quarter midget team. > > I can buy this 10 year old 24 foot CargoMate trailer for around 4 > grand. They added an A/C unit (uncertain if it works) and the roof > is dented from climbing around up there, probably to service the A/ > C. The inside was interior grade paneled over the 3/8 plywood and > some of the plywood has warped pushing the paneling out. I suspect > condensation from the A/C unit. > > I understand that the lighter trailers use a strong box frame and a > thin wood skin for wall construction and the others like this one > use a lighter metal channel that needs plywood walls for strength. > What I don't know is if you can easily replace damaged sections of > plywood, or is it even necessary. Judging condition of the torsion > axles, brakes etc is another variable. I'm also worried about the > weight behind my 3/4 ton pick-up. I suppose a load leveling hitch is > mandatory. > > At this point I'm leaning away from buying it. Any advice appreciated. > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:01:10 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:01:10 EDT Subject: [Fot] TR2 TS1 LO Sailing for Hawaii Next Week. Message-ID: FOT, Reports are that TS1 has been secured in a warehouse in San Diego and will sail about Tuesday. Hawaii 5-0 is standing by to dust the entire car down for fingerprints. There was some late night suspicious activity regarding TS1 while it was under the Classic Motorsports Big Top at The Glen. The car may have been molested in some way, but like sheep and llamas, cars make unlikely witnesses in a court of law. I dont think anything will come of it. I asked Robert if it had a few more miles on the odometer, Sunday Morning. He said, "NO, that was the first thing I checked". Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 28 20:18:43 2008 From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:18:43 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. At the US Grand Prix in Phoenix in 1990, I was working a station behind the TransAm paddock. Another worker across the street was trying to signal me that someone behind me wanted to ask me a question. As there were only about 3 F1 cars on course, when they passed by, he yelled at me to turn around. It was raining and these two guys wanted to know if I thought if the track was going to dry up before the TA session. One of the guys had his hat pulled low over his face, but he turned his face up to me to ask the question. I immediately knew it was PLN. I told him that the track might dry up if it stopped raining, but we had a large puddle on the line that passed for a lake in Phoenix. He and the other guy (Bob Sharp) both started laughing. I realized that there were scores of women looking for him but he wasn't going to let them know where he was. I saw him again at Detroit a couple of years later, and he was always very cordial to marshals. Doug -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Joe Boruch Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 6:00 PM To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com; enichol at bellsouth.net; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net; leetheviolinist at gmail.com; rltaylor3 at gmail.com; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Sun Sep 28 20:20:49 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:20:49 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> Message-ID: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? ----- Original Message ----- From: BOB KRAMER To: FOT List Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre at gt6.ca Sun Sep 28 20:31:40 2008 From: andre at gt6.ca (Andre Rousseau) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:31:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: I have a TR race, but need to edit it. Kinda behind, busy rebuilding my server so I can get the websites back up and running. A. On 28-Sep-08, at 10:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -- Andre Rousseau - andre at gt6.ca '68 Triumph GT6 MK1 - http://www.gt6.ca/ Ottawa, ON, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Sun Sep 28 20:32:12 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 EDT Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit Message-ID: This brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... > My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to > another location on the > corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very > apologetic for being > in my way. I then realized who it was. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dos_gusanos at msn.com Sun Sep 28 20:54:01 2008 From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:54:01 -0600 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman at Detroit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I still have a great photo of Paul Newman on the Detroit grid with Davy Jone's Super Vee team in 1985. I was just getting a snap of the cars when he stepped into the frame. From: N197TR4 at cs.comDate: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:32:12 -0400To: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net; fot at autox.team.netSubject: [Fot] Paul Newman at DetroitThis brings back a few memories: I was the last Detroit F-1 Grand Prix as a guest of Ferrari. (It's a long story) My son & I left the Hospitality Center at the RenCen and went to the pit area. Newman was by himself on a scooter. Got a great picture, but didnt talk to him. As part of the weekend, I got a private viewing of the new Ferrari being prepared for US Emmission in Farmington Hills. Son Mark also got a great photograph of one of the F-1 drivers. I believe it was Senna. Mark was doing commercial grade photography at the time. Mark also had a great photo op of Miss Detroit at the Hospitality Suite, but chose to act like she wasnt there.... My first run in with Paul was at Detroit in 1986. I was trying to get to another location on the corner and had to get around him. I asked him to move and he was very apologetic for being in my way. I then realized who it was. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Sun Sep 28 16:20:35 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:20:35 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch > I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years > ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very > aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started > up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He > replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower > watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA > last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that > he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an > SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with > Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. > > > -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: > > Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of > that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International > Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted > sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I > go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser > and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and > the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." > > > > The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He > says, "No, who are you?" > > > > I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" > > > > The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." > > > > Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he > takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which > they all laugh their collective asses off. > > > > Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it > never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. > > > > If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind > Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. > > > > Richard > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Fashion Design Education - Click Here! > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CWNicholls at aol.com Thu Sep 25 19:23:10 2008 From: CWNicholls at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:23:10 -0400 Subject: [Fot] First lap downtown reenactment... Message-ID: Video from 1951 MGTD #928 the first lap of honor from which the Triumphs were forgotten... They can be seen lining the street on the return to town for the following laps. Again, Henry's car stands out! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1421181976941140816 &hl=en Clark Clark W. Nicholls "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 06:55:29 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:55:29 EDT Subject: [Fot] Enclosed trailer advice Message-ID: Brakes re-done properly and new bearings,etc. will cost you about $1500 possibly....plus prob tires....electics maybe..plus you may need a brake controller installed ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RKramer at rdoequipment.com Mon Sep 29 07:22:51 2008 From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:22:51 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Trailer education 101 Message-ID: As always the FoT List was a font of knowledge and helped prevent me from making a bad purchase decision. Being from Texas I was blinded by the perceived value of an A/C unit. To all that responded I thank you. Hopefully the discussion helped others as well. Bob Kramer Sales Manager RDO Equipment Company 16415 N. IH 35 Pflugerville, TX 78660 512-272-4141 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 08:13:07 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:13:07 -0700 Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video In-Reply-To: <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> References: <004e01c91f64$8cde4f60$0264a8c0@DadsComputer> <272D966BF4724C4C906817C40039E421@Elliott> Message-ID: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote: > Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BOB KRAMER > To: FOT List > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PM > Subject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# > > Bob Kramer > rkramer3 at austin.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 08:35:45 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:35:45 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... In-Reply-To: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> Message-ID: <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty.? On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From:?BOB KRAMERTo:?FOT ListSent:?Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject:?[Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU#?Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net?http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From jsnook at wcnet.org Mon Sep 29 08:45:15 2008 From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:45:15 -0500 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: <3E075A24-F0BA-4DB8-9533-72D478FA9C16@bnj.com> <8CAF057CAAD6D22-94C-89F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C0A82F040B44FEB83D03F3EC2AA264E@JeffsNotebook> Hi Glen, If you remember a number of years ago, you and I looked this car over pretty thoroughly at (I believe) Summit Point during a vintage race there. I do remember taking a bunch of photos. He wanted to sell it and I was considering the purchase. I passed on the purchase at the time for some reason I don't remember now. If I recall correctly his son took possession of it upon Bill's death, took it to Colorado, and restored it, painting it the current blue color. He then sold it to Bob Stadel, who has it now and was running at the Glen with us. Vroom, vroom, Jeff Snook www.snooksdreamcars.com ----- Original Message ----- From: fubog1 at aol.com To: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen -----Original Message----- From: Bill Babcock To: Don Elliott <58tr3a at videotron.ca> Cc: FOT List Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:13 am Subject: Re: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video Yup, Peyote, then Ambro. The Ambro sure is pretty. On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Don Elliott wrote:Just a few seconds before the end, is that not an AMBRO we see ?----- Original Message -----From: BOB KRAMERTo: FOT ListSent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:15 PMSubject: [Fot] TR250K, Peyote included in this Glen video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSz9H-1VmRU# Bob Kramer rkramer3 at austin.rr.com_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot Bill BabcockBabcock & JenkinsBillb at bnj.com503.936.7660www.bnj.comEditorKe Nalu e-MagazinePaddlesurfing's Web JournalBill at kenalu.comwww.kenalu.c omblog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog =_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1696 - Release Date: 9/28/2008 1:30 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 08:58:57 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58:57 EDT Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Message-ID: Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander > So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of > Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it > was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over > the weekend. > Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. > Just curious > Thanks > Glen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr4racing at googlemail.com Mon Sep 29 09:03:25 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:03:25 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Death & racing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had a death at the 400 km race at the Nurburgring also ..a Mustang driver crashed at Wehrseifen and was killed on the track. It is supposed that he was way too fast for that corner. You can see skid marks from his braking. Most drivers wanted to continue the race ? incl. me. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fubog1 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 09:12:01 2008 From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:12:01 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... THANKS! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAF05CDBFB46AE-94C-B9F@WEBMAIL-MZ14.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for the info guys! Glen -----Original Message----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:58 am Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill ?willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. ? The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we=2 0had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From N197TR4 at cs.com Mon Sep 29 10:24:20 2008 From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:24:20 EDT Subject: [Fot] Steel Flywheels by A.R.E. for FOT Some choices in production. Message-ID: If not interested in Flywheels, please delete. If I do another production run of TR3/TR4 Flywheels, I may be able to combine with a first production run of TR6 (later crank). There are some common manufacturing operations that may allow some cost benefits of combining these production runs. Furthermore, I get requests for the drilled and tapped holes associated with aftermarket clutches. Chuck Arnold asks if flywheels can be manufactured without the drilled and tapped holes. This could be a brilliant idea if folks have the capabilities of doing their own mounting holes. (Proof of concept needs to be checked) This would eliminate the transport of the Flywheels to a different Machine Center and reduce the cost of production. My experience with deducts is that it would not be generous. This project may proceed, but likely very slowly. It wont be a high priority, unless the numbers start to look very good. Excel Spread Sheet Time...who is interested if we can do 'blanks' for mounting aftermarket clutches. Joe A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 58tr3a at videotron.ca Mon Sep 29 13:28:03 2008 From: 58tr3a at videotron.ca (Don Elliott) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... References: Message-ID: <117D43C32FAB46749D85830195E525AA@Elliott> There are several photos of this Ambro when it was still green and yellow and Bill Ames too, at Mont Tremblant, one of his last appearances. Look for the photos in the historical section of the FOT site. ----- Original Message ----- From: N197TR4 at cs.com To: Fubog1 at aol.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: [Fot] on the subject of Ambros... Glen, It was the last AMBRO he built, while also restoring a historical home in Elizabethtown, NY, into a B & B. He initial drove it on the street, but was encouraged by Rosemary Remington to return to racing. The body was, indeed, an early body and unbuilt when he found it on a tour of the US in an MGB, with Rosemary in the late 80s Bill willed the car to his son, Robert, in Steamboat Springs, CO. Robert ran the Ambro for a few years, sometimes with the support of Jack & Joe. Robert painted the car Blue. The AMBRO is now owned by Robert Stadel in eastern PA (?) and is supported by Rich Rock and Bill Dewar (Triumph Rescue. Robert Ames nows runs a Porsche. Rosemary still runs the B & B in Elizabethtown. Mr. Stadel, ran the AMBRO at the Glen. Which reminds me, I think that I have a Third Place Award for Mr. Stadel in Triumph Specials. Joe Alexander So I'm looking at this photo that I took a few years ago at Mid-O, of Mr Ames & #57 green with white stripe. He was paddocked next to us, it was very nice to meet him & we had some interestion conversations over the weekend. Question- who owns this car now? It was an early one. Just curious Thanks Glen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 17:29:27 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:29:27 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman Message-ID: <1869AE378BE34161854EDC8835A951FF@S1099895562> I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 19to1tr6 at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 18:48:15 2008 From: 19to1tr6 at comcast.net (rob) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:48:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment machine I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of the others were not working or spotty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tedtsimx at bright.net Mon Sep 29 18:59:20 2008 From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:59:20 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel Message-ID: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted From vintage.racer at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 19:48:14 2008 From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:48:14 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel In-Reply-To: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> References: <48E179E8.70201@bright.net> Message-ID: <004701c9229e$9b7ac020$d2704060$@racer@comcast.net> I bought several of the items offered prior to Watkins Glen and after receiving the shirts and hat, I am very pleased with both their fit and quality. I'm looking forward to wearing the regalia at our next race in a couple of weeks. Thanks Ted and Scott for all your work in making these "cool" items available. Gary 62 TR4 69 TR6 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ted Schumacher Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:59 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen apparel FOT members. During the event at Watkins Glen, we had requests for FOT t.shirts, hats and denim shirts. Everything we had at the event was either pre-sold or the few extras we had sold out quickly. Members of FOT, Western Pennsylvania Triumph, VTR members and spectators all inquired about buying these items. We decided to do one more run. Scott Janzen put out an initial announcement about a week ago. Here is the second request. If you want any of these items, please order now. Tell your friends, club members or interested bystanders. Prices will remain as they were for the Glen event. A chance to own a piece of history. You can contact Scott janzen or myself. Thanks for your time. Ted _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot From lfritz82 at hotmail.com Mon Sep 29 19:56:40 2008 From: lfritz82 at hotmail.com (Lorne Fritz) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:03:30 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Fot] LUK update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83FA0CBF-6DAA-46A7-AD61-2CE289E9C5C1@bnj.com> I have two words for you--linear bearings. As in Saab clutch actuators. I'm not sure what i'd use on a street car, but my guess is that I'd still go for a quartermaster clutch. Bulletproof. On Sep 29, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Lorne Fritz wrote: > After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I > pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. > The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the > last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and > I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage > and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru > the trouble I have lately. Lorne > See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or > on the go. See Now _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Billb at bnj.com Mon Sep 29 21:07:35 2008 From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:07:35 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: The best way to understand bump steer is to play with some software that simulates roll/bump. Other than that, just do some google searches and read online stuff. Most of the books I've read don't do a good job--no idea why. The most important thing to understand is that you have zero bump steer when the upper and lower inner suspension pivots line up with the inner steering pivot, the upper and lower outer suspension pivots line up with the outer steering pivot, and the instant centers of the upper, lower, and steering arms all intersect at the same point. Instant center is an imaginary line drawn through the center of each link. They usually intersect about twenty feet from the car. what you want is for all of them to come together. If you think about it, it's clear why this recipe would deliver zero bump steer. The only way to achieve that is to design the suspension that way, but you can get in the ballpark by moving the rack up and down--at least you can reduce bump steer within the limited stroke of your suspension system. On Sep 29, 2008, at 5:48 PM, rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its > time to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and had > the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating > bumpstear and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps > thanks for the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good > but most of the others were not working or spotty > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > Bill Babcock Babcock & Jenkins Billb at bnj.com 503.936.7660 www.bnj.com Editor Ke Nalu e-Magazine Paddlesurfing's Web Journal Bill at kenalu.com www.kenalu.com blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcjcarrera at comcast.net Mon Sep 29 22:44:55 2008 From: jcjcarrera at comcast.net (jcjcarrera at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:44:55 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Mr. Paul Newman Message-ID: <093020080444.18306.48E1AEC7000E85040000478222058861720E9D0A9D9D0E0C060C06@comcast.net> Great to hear all the testimonials about Paul Newman. I used to watch him race at Portland International in the early 80's When he was not racing, he was selling his salad oil in the pits by the gallon to all the ladies. When I was telling my wife about all of your recollections, she reminded me of the fact that PN used to sunbath on the deck on his NYC apartment. Her nursing school, the NY Foundling Hospital, was across the street and she and her friends used to fight over the binoculars. I guess he made a better impression than the Pennsylvania college boy at 5 ft 10 inches and 135 wirey pounds driving the Robin Egg blue TR3A looking for a parking space on the street below!! John James #116 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norlinengineering at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 01:47:21 2008 From: norlinengineering at comcast.net (Norlin Engineering) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:47:21 -0700 Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: <81E5743A11D24620B9ADD721FF61AA18@TOSHIBALAPTOP> I've been on the road for a few days (took in Oregon State knocking off USC in football and then a bit of celebrating) and I just spent the better part of the evening catching up on e-mails. After pondering the aggressive driving vs 80%, etc I felt I needed to toss in a couple of other thoughts. First off, on "the line" topic. I drive a Spitfire and my "fast line" is significantly different than the line of my Spridget friends. I can easily go inside on many corners while they have the inside front wheel in the air. Then you've got the whole subject of the qualifying line, the defensive line and the passing line. The only true line is the one you are taking. The point is that when being passed, hold your line because the overtaking driver expects you to do so. However, don't be surprised if they don't go where you point and don't be surprised if they pass closer and faster than you expect. This is racing, not a parade. In the SCCA vintage group that I normally race in, I'm on the track with all kinds of vehicles, from the Fiat that can barely get out of it's own way to Lola T70's. With cars that close on me at as much as 60 MPH, I've got to use my mirrors a lot. I most often wave them by and give them whatever track they need! (meaning I'm not on my racing line - watch out for marbles) On the flip side, when passing cars, I use a lot of caution until I've raced (and talked) with the driver quite a bit. Back on the "line" topic, we've got at least one driver that never takes the same line twice in a row. Since he hasn't injured anybody yet, the stewards still allow him on the track. I'll pull into the pits and rest for 30 seconds rather than race close to this....... I've found that there's a lot of difference in driver skills and experience as noted above. This seems to be more pronounced in Vintage racing than in other venues. From my perspective there is a threshold that a driver needs to cross to be "racing" rather than "driving". I started driving Formula Fords in the early 1970's. I drove the cars, but did not really race them until I was getting lapped at a National race in my second year of racing. I'll never forget the sight of about 5 cars that just passed me going into turn 1 at Portland with the cars about 30% sideways and the front wheels moving side to side to balance the drift. I remember telling myself that if these guys could do that, so could I. The next lap I dropped 1 1/2 seconds off my lap time and never looked back. If I get told I can't drive like that on the track (cut back to 80%), I'll buy a boat or something. However, I won't drive that hard if I'm near an expensive car (I race my against cars that are worth more than my house by far) or a driver that I'm not familiar with. I give the expensive cars a wide berth and limit my close racing to my Spridget friends (need more Spitfires in the PNW). Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being safe and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to learn. From tr4racing at googlemail.com Tue Sep 30 02:07:46 2008 From: tr4racing at googlemail.com (MadMarx) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:07:46 +0200 Subject: [Fot] Nuerburgring Nordschleife 400 km race In-Reply-To: <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> References: <001601c91a52$894ead53$0210a8c0@Triumph.local><3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB24ED@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74DB259C@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com> <20080919173410.soisa4tpxcs0w448@secure.uwalumni.com><1207788E-96F9-437F-8D68-36398530A9FE@earthlink.net> <037701c91d30$64dcafb0$431172d8@David> <73C2310C-DA0F-4533-9905-FF81131C8A0A@bnj.com> Message-ID: http://www.ring-fokus.de/videos.php?vid=43 Some imressions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 07:44:06 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:44:06 EDT Subject: [Fot] The Racing Line Message-ID: In a message dated 09/30/2008 2:52:04 AM Central Daylight Time, norlinengineering at comcast.net writes: > <<< Vintage racing is real racing. However, since the whole idea is being > safe > and having fun, the experienced drivers need to back pedal a bit and the > novices need to pay attention because they've got a lot of opportunities to > learn. >>> > > Succinctly put, Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 10:06:07 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Message-ID: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 10:11:00 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <891541.40264.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Ed: ? >From STP's web page: STP = Scientifically Treated Petroleum --- On Tue, 9/30/08, EDWARD BARNARD wrote: From: EDWARD BARNARD Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:06 AM Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test?driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then?renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from?The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate?this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -?_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitlist at cox.net Tue Sep 30 10:52:49 2008 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:52:49 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <786148.56872.qm@web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> This site explains it all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) Joe C. _____ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question Lister's: I'm writing a magazine article about Indy roadsters (Kurtis', Novi', etc) and am examining the Studebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 Studebaker purchased from three gentlemen a little known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil additive product they were selling from the trunks of their cars. Studebaker gave Andy Granatelli, then head engineer and chief test driver for Studebaker the position of CEO of the newly acquired company which he then renamed STP. Now my question...does anyone know for certain the meaning of STP? I am getting mixed answers from The Racing History Group. Most say it stands for Specially Treated Petroleum, while a few are saying it stands for Studebaker Test Products. Do any of the FOTers know the "true" side of the story? BTW, later I will relate this past Saturday spent with three great guys, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, and Jim McElreath, at a car show we had. Thanks - Ed - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaboruch at netzero.net Tue Sep 30 11:19:56 2008 From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:19:56 GMT Subject: [Fot] LUK update Message-ID: <20080930.131956.16447.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> A while back when this subject was active someone suggested it was better to have old used clutches rebuilt, rather than buying new ones. I just pulled a Borg & Beck clutch off a TR4A engine that I bought. It has a diaphram type pressure plate. If any one wants it for rebuilding (aside from surface corrosion on the fingers and cobwebs it looks decent), let me know and you can have it for the cost of shipping it to you. Otherwise it will go in my scrap pile to be recycled. Joe(B) After trying every trick in the book to get more hydraulic travel, I pulled the trans. and replaced the new unit with a AP clutch kit. The AP unit works. Out of the 5 LUK TR4A/6 kits I installed in the last year, 2 worked, 2 broke throw out forks, two were replaced and I expect one to come back when the customer gets it out of storage and starts driving it. This is just to keep anyone from going thru the trouble I have lately. Lorne ____________________________________________________________ All is not lost! Click now for professional data recovery. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/Ioyw6ijm33uV3Gze1vp0NkY6mj2So0nJ5CukMH3YFPsxCoFn7XYO8a/ From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net Tue Sep 30 11:41:54 2008 From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Non-LBC group question In-Reply-To: <297771E4EDD7490495446ED3D8A389B3@newcomputer> Message-ID: <483242.40483.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Joe: The reason I'm not trusting all the available sources is because the STP site says Petty is still a spokesperson, while Wiki says that ended when Clorox bought out the company. Wiki does mention however the Studebaker link in the name which is perhaps how the misnomer was started. These sources are saying Scientifically Treated Petroleum. Thanks - Ed - --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Joe Curry wrote: From: Joe Curry Subject: RE: [Fot] Non-LBC group question To: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net, "'FOT'" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 11:52 AM This si t e explains i t all. ? ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STP_(motor_oil_company) ? Joe C. From: fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t [mail t o:fo t -bounces at au t ox. t eam.ne t ] On Behalf Of EDWARD BARNARD Sen t : Tuesday, Sep t ember 30, 2008 9:06 AM To: FOT Subjec t : [Fo t ] Non-LBC group ques t ion ? Lis t er's: I'm wri t ing a magazine ar t icle abou t Indy roads t ers (Kur t is', Novi ', e t c) and am examining t he S t udebaker/Packard powered cars. In 1963 S t udebaker purchased from t hree gen t lemen a li t t le known company named Chemical Compounds, which had an oil addi t ive produc t t hey were selling from t he t runks of t heir cars. S t udebaker gave Andy Grana t elli, t hen head engineer and chief t es t ?driver for S t udebaker t he posi t ion of CEO of t he newly acquired company which he t hen?renamed STP. Now my ques t ion...does anyone know for cer t ain t he meaning of STP? I am ge t t ing mixed answers from?The Racing His t ory Group. Mos t say i t s t ands for Specially Trea t ed Pe t roleum, while a few are saying i t s t ands for S t udebaker Tes t Produc t s. Do any of t he FOTers know t he " t rue" side of t he s t ory? BTW, la t er I will rela t e? t his pas t Sa t urday spen t wi t h t hree grea t guys, Johnny Ru t herford, Lloyd Ruby,? and Jim McElrea t h, a t a car show we had. Thanks - Ed -? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BillDentin at aol.com Tue Sep 30 12:18:47 2008 From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:18:47 EDT Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Message-ID: Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wredinger at oppd.com Tue Sep 30 12:54:36 2008 From: wredinger at oppd.com (REDINGER, WILLIAM E) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:54:36 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill Years ago when Ethanol was first used in gasoline in the Midwest, I saw a large number of lead soldered brass floats (carb and fuel sender) sink due to the acid from the ethanol eating the flux that was used and thus leaving a weak spot in the joint that the fuel could eventually migrate through. Now that ethanol is in everything ( pump signs may not say it but more than likely it is in all gasoline from 5 to 15 % or E 85%) due to it's cheap octane boosting capacity it may come back to attack these old brass floats. I have successfully used a fuel resistant epoxy to do the sealing like Bob Wismer, since most of my old stash has been consumed by this. Bill Redinger ________________________________ From: fot-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of BillDentin at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:19 PM To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... Amici... Periodic update on leaky SU floats perceived to be the result of additives used currently in racing gas. My racing partner, Bob Wismer, has treated several repaired SU floats with POR-15, the rust preventative product often used to repair, restore, and seal fuel tanks. The treatment was no more sophisticated than dipping each end of the float in the product. While this does not seal the center seam, it does appear to seal both tube ends, where the leaks in our floats have occurred. We've since been through two events, without a failure. We are very encouraged by this, and pass it along for what it is worth. Bill Dentinger ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tarch at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 30 13:14:13 2008 From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <5B1E39BAD1B544A8821A52B9207D7C6B@richardiipc> British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. I first met Jan years ago at a race. She was sitting quietly in their Nomad knitting, sewing, crocheting or something equally domestic. I squeezed in the cabin and she and I got into a wonderful conversation about something we had each read recently. With the grace and patience of nobility she let me go through whatever rant was on my mind. Her contributions were gentle, tolerant and thoughtful. You know, the kind of stuff that all guys fall for. Well, needles to say, I fell for it. I fell for it until she reached out to pick up her iced tea. There on her fore arm was a glorious tattoo, bright and bold. And here was I, caught with the incarnate image of Shirley Jones with a PhD, discussing loftier thoughts than often found in the paddock, and totally charmed by what's his name's wife! Of course we all have varying prejudices about tattoos; pro, con or indifferent. I think I have trained myself to be fairly indifferent, but this one caught me totally off guard. My thoughts were racing, trying to re-create the mood and circumstance which precipitated this adornment. I just couldn't make it fit. In my mind Jan's calm, call it serenity, simply belied the need for personal signature art. So I figured that probably she just stayed stoned all the time and one day she ran out of dope and in a fit of frenzy strolled into a tattoo parlor. That wasn't exactly what I thought, but that was the nature of my quandary. Tattoo or not, however, I was still smitten; still am, in fact. Especially after some 6 months later when I cautiously broached the subject to Joe. He laughed heartily and told me that Jan was just having fun with wash-off tattoos. How perfect! As Kathleen's article points out, Joe's a pretty Boss guy. But as many of you'll know, there is a reason for it. Richard TR-4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spitfiresuz at 141.com Tue Sep 30 13:36:44 2008 From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:36:44 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander Message-ID: <380-220089230193644116@M2W018.mail2web.com> She's not my RaceMom for no reason! Jan is absolutely AWESOME. :) Susan :) Original Message: ----------------- From: Richard Taylor tarch at bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:14:13 -0400 To: fot at autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Jan Alexander British Motoring, Fall '08, Editor's Choice, Triumph Friend, Joe Alexander, by Kathleen M. Mangan This is a nice article about our buddy. But study carefully the photo of Jan with Joe and his TR-3 in the background. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From emanteno at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 14:24:36 2008 From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:24:36 +0000 Subject: [Fot] Nomination Message-ID: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Friends, I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net May I have a second? Thanks, Irv Korey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrybarr at charter.net Tue Sep 30 14:38:23 2008 From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> References: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6E0CA716-85A7-4986-808D-31D4D0E69A6F@charter.net> I will second that!! On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:24 PM, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for > membership. > > He is the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington > yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope to see the car > run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. > > His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net > > May I have a second? > > Thanks, > > Irv Korey > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehusmann53 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 30 14:39:17 2008 From: ehusmann53 at yahoo.com (Ernest Husmann) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <345664.65124.qm@web57615.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Of course.? Now that TA Moser has a race car maybe he can get in on any government bailout as he is about to?generate bunches of unbacked debt. --- On Tue, 9/30/08, emanteno at comcast.net wrote: From: emanteno at comcast.net Subject: [Fot] Nomination To: "FOT" Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 3:24 PM Friends, ? I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington for membership. ? He is?the new owner of my TR4, and the car arrived in Washington?yesterday. He plans to race with SOVREN, and I hope?to see the car run next year in Portland at the Kastner Cup event. ? His email is mrtommmmm at netscape.net ? May I have a second? ? Thanks, ? Irv Korey_______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry at henryfrye.com Tue Sep 30 15:04:36 2008 From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:04:36 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <093020082024.10412.48E28B0400008B6D000028AC2200748184970A9D010507@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Sure, I'll second the nomination. The guy with Irv's car probably could use our collective wisdom. But, if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got through after being away for 8 days, he's not going to stick around for long. I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol days when the FOT email list was all about making Triumphs go fast... > -----Original Message----- > From: Irv > Subject: [Fot] Nomination > > Friends, > > I'd like to nominate T A Moser of East Olympia, Washington > for membership. From spyderweb at uwalumni.com Tue Sep 30 15:22:26 2008 From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (spyderweb at uwalumni.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:22:26 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Nomination In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD40A3CE9@server.Triumph.local> Message-ID: <20080930162226.ky8iny5hgk8gkk4c@secure.uwalumni.com> Quoth Henry Frye: > ...if Mr. Moser's first week amongst our ranks > is anything like the 233 FOT emails I just got > through after being away for 8 days, he's not > going to stick around for long. > > I guess I am just yearning for the good 'ol > days when the FOT email list > was all about making Triumphs go fast... You'll have to forgive your fellow FOTs for the recent avalanche of messages -- we were busy learning that the way to make Triumphs go fast is to drive them at somewhere between 9 and 10/10ths :-( Jim Hill From tlizzard at msn.com Tue Sep 30 15:46:53 2008 From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:46:53 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Leaky SU floats... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bill are you using the POR gas tank sealer or the POR 15 black rust fixer/cover up goo? Terry Stetler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:14:49 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:14:49 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> References: <168B40486419450294F4FF7860C6941A@RobPC> Message-ID: <48E2A4D9.9010604@pobox.com> I found the book, "How to Make Your Car Handle" to be very useful. rob wrote: > had a little trouble under bracking this weekend and decided its time > to try and understand and messure its presant bumpstear. This > weekends issue was caused buy unequal caster. > > I have had good results with setting camber,toe and caster and > had the set ups varified on a local laser machine.Funny a level floor > some string and a plumbob can compete with an exspensive alignment > machine > > I would like to get a list of books for info on calculating bumpstear > and figureing rollcenter. thanks rob Ps thanks for > the feed back re: phones at lime rock. Seems ATT was good but most of > the others were not working or spotty > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From REK46 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 16:27:45 2008 From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:27:45 EDT Subject: [Fot] bumpstear Message-ID: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes ************** Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cartravel at pobox.com Tue Sep 30 16:39:01 2008 From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a > lot of his photos were Spits brakes > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bownes at seiri.com Tue Sep 30 18:06:15 2008 From: bownes at seiri.com (robert bownes) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear In-Reply-To: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young > Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose > built race cars. > > REK46 at aol.com wrote: > > Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot > of his photos were Spits brakes > > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Fot mailing list > Fot at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwn74 at aol.com Tue Sep 30 18:43:15 2008 From: cwn74 at aol.com (Clark W. Nicholls) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:43:15 -0400 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman motorsports trubute site In-Reply-To: References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <805678C9DCA24E18ABB32C5F00C9F935@semperon3400> I invite everyone to submit their PLN moment to this excellent website. (and read others) Tribute to Paul Newman Continues Altogether, there are 15 different articles currently up there, expressing a wide range of views. If you've got one you'd like to share, see our CONTACT Section and send it along ... http://www.speedstylemagazine.com/ Note link to PLN Tribute on left of homepage. Clark Clark W. Nicholls '72 Stag '74 Spitfire "Reality... It's not what you think." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From budscars at comcast.net Tue Sep 30 19:07:22 2008 From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:07:22 -0700 Subject: [Fot] bumpstear References: <48E2AA85.3070805@pobox.com> Message-ID: <001646FB58B74CC491C3453D58C1C630@Bud> Something tells me i'm gettin' a 'Bum Steer' about this ! Racer bud ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Larry Young Cc: fot at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] bumpstear Yup. Belongs on your race bookshelf somewhere between the Carrol Smith books and 'The Unfair Advantage" iii 2008/9/30 Larry Young Yes, that's the one. It's about handling for normal cars, not purpose built race cars. REK46 at aol.com wrote: Is that the one by Fred Puhn?....he also had one about"Braking",and a lot of his photos were Spits brakes _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaskas at cox.net Sun Sep 28 23:09:33 2008 From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:09:33 -0700 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman In-Reply-To: References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <757312126609454DA27D70642554FE3B@KasPC> I've still got a snap shot of Paul giving me a birthday cake at Limerock that he just took from the trunk of his car on a Trans-Am weekend when I was with Nissan. Neat guy, fast driver and just a wonderful guy to hang with. I might add that Jan Alexander repeated this action with a birthday cake for me at Watkins Glen, and she is pretty cute too. ----- Original Message ----- From: robert bownes To: Joe Boruch Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met PL at a driver's meeting @ LRP too. He was there in 99 or so at a National. Showed up at the driver's meeting just like the rest of us. Mostly listened to the Stewards say the same old stuff with about the same amount of attention. Making the same small race talk with everyone around him. Amazing guy. Later I was up in the tower watching a race (FF's I think) and he wandered up. We made a few comments about a few great pass attempts and successes going on. A racer just like the rest of us. Just with a different day job. 2008/9/28 Joe Boruch I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, "That's okay Mr. Newman, it's on the house." The bartender then looks at me. So I say "Well, do you know who I am?" He says, "No, who are you?" I tell him, "I'm Richard Taylor from Atlanta" The bartender thinks a second then says, "That's great. That'll be $3.50." Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rocky at spitfire4.com Mon Sep 29 16:10:47 2008 From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Fot] Paul Newman References: <20080928.180006.17790.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: I met Paul Newman at the 1977 SCCA National Convention in St. Louis where he was re-presented the President's Cup he'd won at the 1976 Runoffs. Learned a new word from his speech too, "encomium." I was doing a motorsports column for the newspaper I worked for then, so after the dinner when he was sitting surrounded by friends I introduced myself. He shook my hand very cordially, and when I broached the idea of an interview he declined with equal cordiality (Knowing of his aversion to such things anyway, I rather expected to be declined). Later that evening the then-common post-convention high-jinks ensued in the hotel basement not far from the ballroom. Tricycle races ("Formula T") around the free-standing elevator column. Really small kiddie tricycles. And there was PLN, matched up against Bob Tullius. "Ya want me to show ya how it's done?" Tullius asked. "Nah, Joanne's been trying to show me for years," Newman replied, lying with his stomach on the trike seat and pedaling with his hands while Tullius tried it the regular way. I forget who "won." The merriment lasted until someone not associated with SCCA and the convention spotted Newman and bulled in to demand an autograph, at which point PLN disappeared like smoke in the breeze. Just standing back, watching the proceedings and how much he was enjoying the company of his fellow SCCA racers -- not a star, not a big shot, just another racer having fun bench racing with people of similar passion -- I had my column anyway. Didn't need the interview to do a portrait of the man. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Boruch To: tarch at bellsouth.net Cc: lcouperin at hotmail.com ; enichol at bellsouth.net ; taylorrichardl at bellsouth.net ; leetheviolinist at gmail.com ; rltaylor3 at gmail.com ; nancy_mitchco at hotmail.com ; ruthie.taylor at gmail.com ; fot at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] Paul Newman I met Paul at a driver's meeting at an SCCA race at Lime Rock some years ago. That's when he agreed to be an honerable FOT member. He was very aproachable at the track as long as the subject was racing. My wife started up a conversation with him later that day and called him Mr. Newman. He replied "Call me Paul". His wife and daughter were often up in the tower watching his race and were also very approachable. He was still racing SCCA last year, but was doing regional races instead of the National races that he did in previous years. He was still winning, too. It was at an SCCA regional race in 2007 that Barbara Walters went for a track ride with Paul around Lime Rock. She was doing a story about living a long life. -- "Richard Taylor" wrote: Ten years or so ago, I was sitting with a group of racers in the lobby of that Holiday Inn-type hotel at the northeast corner of Daytona International Speedway. In comes Newman and plops down on a sofa in a friendly-exhausted sort of way and starts bench racing right there. In a few minutes he and I go over to the temporary bar set up for cocktail hour. He orders a Budweiser and I order a Heinekens. Newman digs into his pocket to pay for his beer and the bartender says, ?That?s okay Mr. Newman, it?s on the house.? The bartender then looks at me. So I say ?Well, do you know who I am?? He says, ?No, who are you?? I tell him, ?I?m Richard Taylor from Atlanta? The bartender thinks a second then says, ?That?s great. That?ll be $3.50.? Newman, still standing there, chuckles. While I am waiting for my change he takes his free beer over to our group and tells them the story; to which they all laugh their collective asses off. Of course there was no escaping the aura of his celebrity, but somehow it never eclipsed the camaraderie of our spontaneous little group of racers. If one can make a judgment of a man by an antidotal moment, in my mind Newman exhibited class in its noblest unrefined form. Richard ____________________________________________________________ Fashion Design Education - Click Here! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html http://www.fot-racing.com Fot mailing list Fot at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: