From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 03:14:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:14:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>

Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
    who.


    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 07:38:27 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:38:27 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <F65CD6DF9F874E4997146A4B2C8788A4@Mobil>

I tried to answer the people who asked me about the AE chains but I'm blocked
as spam.

So it's not my unpoliteness it is a technical issue that I cannot answer
directly.

comcast.net does block me and some others too.

Chris

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Tue Jan  1 08:12:44 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:12:44 GMT
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>

That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed (as
had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

-- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
   who.


   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click to compare life insurance rates.  Great rates, quick and easy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNsDeQxlyGUzgoGN7li7Cc2
m1USDiHRovLIlGgmdrgHZBFD/

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:03:06 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:03:06 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <B00ACF5993534B71888516E287AC2529@Mobil>

The AE chain is very tight fit. I hardly can install the cam wheel.
After running the chain a little while installing is getting a little easier.
We have a very good quality chain manufacturer here in Germany but their
chains are a little longer. When installed they hang through like a worn out
chain. Very sad that I cannot use that wonderful chain.
But the AE chain is good enough for racing purpose. I replace them after 2-3
years of racing.


Chris

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joe Boruch
  To: chris at tr4-racing.de
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


  That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed
(as had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

  -- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
  Maybe you chain is too long?
  I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

  Never had a broken tensioner.

  Cheers
  Chris
     Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
  timing
     chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
  with
     this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
  was
     used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
  from
     the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
  from
     who.


     Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
  am
     doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru,
but
     rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
  designed
     tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


  _____________________________________________________________
  Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.

From kenandtweety at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  1 09:08:53 2008
From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting
In-Reply-To: <4779737A.6000100@charter.net>
Message-ID: <394579.4465.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Glenn,

I was a tech in the trenches of a dealership. I should
have made that distinction. I am still employed as a
service quality tech. Which means I get to test drive
when the need arises, anything from an Omni to a
Viper. 
As an introduction of myself to the group, which I
don't believe has been done, I am the keeper of the
flame in the Don Brick TR4. My son Jonathan owns the
car. It is in the process of freshening up. 
I have been quietly gathering tips on preparation of
TRs from the vast experience and minds of FOTers since
being nominated to the list.
I purchased my first sports car in 1958. A '56 TR3. I
joined the TSOA and still have a few copies of the
newsletter. I ran my first race in '59 on an airport
course in Vishi, Mo. The racing virus has been in my
blood ever since. It did lay dormant from '64 to '90.
My current street use sports car is a '57 TR3A. My
racing wheels however since completition of a total
vintage race preparation, has been one of those pesky
Morris Minis. A '61 Mini Minor prepared to Cooper S
specs.
Our plans are to get the TR4 back on the track and
possibly to Watkins Glen with me as driver if Jonathan
can't swing it.
By the way my dad bought a new Ferguson TO20 tractor
that I began driving when I was ten. So consider me
one of the first British tractor engine drivers in the
group. Ha!

Ken Suhre

--- Glenn Franco <gaf3 at charter.net> wrote:

> Right on Ken
> Where were you a tech for Chrysler in Detroit or in
> a dealership.
> I retired a year ago from Jeep Truck Engineering in
> Detroit.
> Glenn Franco
> Spit racer and several TR's
> 
> Ken Suhre wrote:
> > Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38
> years, I
> > have a pretty good understanding of emission
> systems
> > on automobiles.
> >
> > The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is
> what
> > controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the
> > intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve
> that
> > only allows flow when vacum is applied as the
> engine
> > is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a
> > filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually
> > through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a
> vee
> > type engine.
> >
> > The charcoal canister is there only to recover
> fuel
> > vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one.
> > When the engine is running above an idle these
> vapors
> > are purged from the charcoal by the intake
> manifold
> > vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control
> the
> > amount of flow.
> >
> > Probably boring information to most vintage
> racers.
> > But I just had to try to clear up the confusion.
> >
> > Ken Suhre
> > <I believe that when a closed
> >  system
> > was required by emmission control regulations, the
> > pop-off valve was
> > employed to direct venting to the intake manifold
> when
> > the vehicle is
> > stationary, and to the carbon canister when the
> > vehicle is in motion.
> >  Please
> > correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the
> > carbon canister a
> >  part of
> > scheduled maintenance?)
> >
> > Steve P>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:33:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:33:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>

I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get them.
'Maybe Moss has them in USA?

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


> Happy New Year Chris!
> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in my  
> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
> Thanks
> Jerry Barr
> 
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
> 
>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>
>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
>> timing
>>    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not  
>> all
>> with
>>    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while  
>> this one
>> was
>>    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These  
>> have been
>> from
>>    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which  
>> one was
>> from
>>    who.
>>
>>
>>    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or  
>> what I
>> am
>>    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing  
>> thru, but
>>    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>> designed
>>    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 10:04:10 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:04:10 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
	<94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>
	<D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
Message-ID: <EC52C91FEBA24A12A65B0D4DE68F2379@Mobil>

I explain a little further.

I have a dealer in Germany as sponsor for my racing.
Deal is that I get some parts for free and has to return a report about the 
quality.
>From this reports and their own testing they choose which parts they sell.
They are always searching for good quality parts.
They are not the cheapest on the market but I like their attitude as a 
dealer.
http://www.british-car-parts.de/

If you can't get good parts in USA maybe I can help you out?

Cheers
Chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


>I haven't tried Moss but I got a chain for my GT6 from Victoria  British 
>and it was some strange third world thing that looked like it  was made 
>with a hammer and chisel.
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>
>> I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get  them.
>> 'Maybe Moss has them in USA?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Barr"  <jerrybarr at charter.net>
>> To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
>>
>>
>>> Happy New Year Chris!
>>> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in  my 
>>> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
>>> Thanks
>>> Jerry Barr
>>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>>>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>>>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>>>
>>>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Chris
>>>>   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another  broken
>>>> timing
>>>>   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken  (not 
>>>> all
>>>> with
>>>>   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while   this 
>>>> one
>>>> was
>>>>   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These   have 
>>>> been
>>>> from
>>>>   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which   one 
>>>> was
>>>> from
>>>>   who.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others,  or 
>>>> what I
>>>> am
>>>>   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing 
>>>> thru, but
>>>>   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>>>> designed
>>>>   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 10:33:25 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:33:25 EST
Subject: [Fot] WATKINS GLEN HOTELS
Message-ID: <cb7.1edc11be.34abd365@cs.com>

FoT,

I expect to talk to Andrea Stowe of the Hampton Inn about a second hotel, 
that is one of their properties. Will have more to report in a few days.  

I had no idea, when I started this, that entries and attendance would be so 
huge. 

In the meantime, this offering comes from Joe B  (Joe is going to run his TR3 
with us).  read below. It is new hotel opening in 2008.

Joe, I stopped by the village of Watkins Glen yesterday and there is a new 
hotel at the north end of downtown on the lake that is to be completed early in 
2008.  It is partly closed to the weather already, thus looks to be ahead of 
schedule.  It may be worth looking into, and is in a much better location than 
the Hampton Inn.  Their website is <A HREF="http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/">http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/</A>.  
There is an online form to complete for an RFP.  Not sure how many rooms we need 
or what dates you specified, or I would have submitted it.  
Joe(B)
   </HTML>

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 11:37:06 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:37:06 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>

Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere in 
the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring my 
friends here.

CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on to 
a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity to 
smoke a little Peyote, too.

The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none of 
them inhale. 

And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great Howard 
Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of stuff 
happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)

So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting.  These 
guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The real 
truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from Chicago or 
Milwaukee. 

During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming to 
hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far more 
entertaining.

Joe A


   </HTML>

From budscars at msn.com  Tue Jan  1 12:34:14 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:34:14 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
References: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP14C7C1185A03E5D6A592B2C6510@CEZ.ICE>

AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <N197TR4 at cs.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths


> Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere 
> in
> the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring 
> my
> friends here.
>
> CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on 
> to
> a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity 
> to
> smoke a little Peyote, too.
>
> The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none 
> of
> them inhale.
>
> And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great 
> Howard
> Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of 
> stuff
> happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)
>
> So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting. 
> These
> guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The 
> real
> truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from 
> Chicago or
> Milwaukee.
>
> During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming 
> to
> hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far 
> more
> entertaining.
>
> Joe A
>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 12:45:01 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:45:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <c3d.28f7871d.34abf23d@cs.com>

it took me a moment, Racer Bud....but finally an image of Howard Dean emerged.

Good one!


> AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
> WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
> CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
> Racer Bud
> 

   </HTML>

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Tue Jan  1 15:08:53 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:08:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve cover venting
Message-ID: <200801012209.m01M8x2K222793@ns3.geneseo.net>

The major hot rod suppliers sell a kit for this. It includes a pair 
of pipes to weld into your exhaust headers, two one-way valves to 
prevent backfires from blowing off your valve cover, and some misc 
parts. Real cheap at something like $50..

I did this early on in my vintage career and when I mentioned it on 
the net I got royally flamed. It's against the SCCA rules. I could 
never understand the objection - after all, if you blow an engine, 
you put the oil directly on the track. I never saw oil coming out of 
my tailpipe. I took mine off - Joe left his on and continues to leak 
less oil with the kit than without.

More substantive info, however, comes from my local speed shop. They 
run a NHRA national championship engine and do a lot of dyno work. 
They recently tested two systems that do this. One system uses a GM 
air pump and pulls a negative pressure -- on their engine it added 20 
hp to a 500 hp engine. That kit is commercially available for about 
$500. They also tried the exhaust-sucked system and found it added no hp.

I still like it, though. Data be damned.

uncle jack 

From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Tue Jan  1 22:17:07 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:17:07 +1000
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
this thread. 
Owing an engine shop means I have a bit of a chance to experiment. We have
made various mods on a single 2500 head (casting # 219021) and flow tested
each one of them. At the simplest end, it was dead stock, followed by
various versions of most folk call a "port & polish". The final end of the
head was fully downdrafted, with the head chopped away and a 35mm pipe
pressed in  from the top corner of the head downwards at about 60 degrees. A
bit of port putty and some die grinder work, made quite a nice job of the
merge.
In all cases we had the stock valves and factory width seats. The guides
were progressively shortened as the porting got more radical.
The stock head kept flowing to 0.500" and rapidly flattened
The port work increased the flow by about 20% up to 0.300" lift where the
results started to come together.  At 0.450" lift, the fully downdrafted
port flowed EXACTLY the same as the stock port. 
This tells me the stock valves/seats/chamber etc are the limiting factor in
max flow, not the ports or lift. 
I now have some Titanium race valves with 7mm stems to trial. I'll reduce
the seat width and further modify the chamber and see if I can get any
better results.
There have been a few comments in this thread about roller rockers and cam
lift. Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then the
only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this. The biggest influences are the
diameter of the cam follower and the mass being moved.  The stock lifter can
be enlarged (considerable cost as machining is time consuming) and very
small changes make a lot of difference. Because of this, just reading
published cam data is often a waste of time. Any reputable cam grinder will
advise how fast the cam acceleration ramp can be for any given lifter
diameter. Anything that can be done to lighten the valve train is a good
thing.
In relation to the prior comments about dyno results being used to
prove/disprove the worth of roller rockers, I have to cast some doubts over
making definitive statement on measurements of 1-2%. Only the very best
temperature and humidity controlled dyno cells can achieve such
repeatability. We operate both engine and chassis dynos, and generally
ignore results unless they show more than 3% change, once corrections are
made for ambient temperature and humidity. For example, when testing a 2500
race engine, a change in engine water or oil temperature of about 10degress,
can make a 3-5% difference in max power. Some other engines . like the well
known 4AG Toyota, will show much larger swings from temperature changes.
Because of this, comparisons have to be made under as near to identical
circumstances as possible. Peak power readings can rarely achieve what you
need to know, so you have to run acceleration tests and load cycles to make
valid comparisons.
I'd be happy to swap real results with anyone else who might have the same.
I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
experimented with larger valves and lifters.

Terry O'Beirne

From kaskas at cox.net  Tue Jan  1 23:04:31 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Fot] '63 Sebring Race Video ...
References: <018001c84cee$2785b2a0$0202a8c0@DDRC6B81>
Message-ID: <043e01c84d05$577ffd00$d214c548@RW>

There are a couple of shot of my team cars at the Webster turn. White TR-4
coupes


  Two (2) minutes of amateur 16mm film footage shot at the '63 Sebring Race.
1st location is the bleachers at the MG bridge. 2nd location is from the
bleachers at the Webster turn(s).

  http://www.corvette-videos.com/watch/?vid=7778

From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 03:42:04 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:42:04 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA73C@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:30:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:30:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>

Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger
 


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan  2 08:40:48 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002301c84d55$d9174940$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Bill,
Best Buy has one TomTom model on sale for $150 that has the features that
you are interested in.  Unfortunately, They are out of stock for online
sales and are only available in selected stores.  My local store is not one
of them.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From Gt6steve at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:45:46 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:45:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all 
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 08:50:59 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:50:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
Message-ID: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that it works better than the Megellan that I also have. 
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>> 
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes 
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:48:18 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:48:18 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

wow, great data. I don't have a dyno yet, and my flow bench is still just a
set of plans. But when I do, we'll certainly talk.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry and Cindy
Sent: Tue 1/1/2008 9:17 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 08:55:05 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c84d57$d82f4850$0301000a@Chowdown>

One of them uses the voice of "MR-T" to give directions. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10038326/



~S


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and 
> traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much 
> this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards 
> a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest 
> to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:55:23 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
References: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets very
well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our attention to
it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Wed Jan  2 09:09:04 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Terry,
Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this.
Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
as further?
Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
difference.
Thanks,
Bill

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 09:16:03 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:16:03 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA781@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Ok, I already did privately.

I bought a Garmin Nuvi in Wisconsin on the first leg of the All Aluminum Tour
when I got lost trying to find Elkhart Lake. I figured it would pay for itself
in diesel saved. It's done better than that. I got the cheapest one because I
also didn't need MP3, cupholder or massage unit. My wife has a super-expensive
GPS system in her Bentley with five or six CDs of supporting data. It sucks by
comparison to the Nuvi. Better directions, better features, etc., etc. And you
can stick it in your pocket and take it from vehicle to vehicle and even on
your bicycle (though an iPhone with google maps is way better for finding
stuff when you're on a bicycle or walking).


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Gt6steve at aol.com
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 7:45 AM
To: spitlist at cox.net; BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:46:32 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>

Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and 
the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box 
and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.

In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
the internet for downloading.

and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local 
police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in 
the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the 
thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the 
windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break 
in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a street light.

uncle jack 

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 09:53:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:53:09 EST
Subject: [Fot]  GPS Products
Message-ID: <c17.2972bba8.34ad1b75@cs.com>

I got a cheapie off of eBay....

I wouldnt leave home without one, now that I have it. Then they offered 
specials this Christmas for $150 on a couple of brands.

There is an enormous amount of information contained in that little plastic 
box.

It is not a total replacement for a good Atlas, but almost.

Joe A




> Amici...
> 
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not 
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for 
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit 
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like 
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to 
> me.
> 
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
> 
> Bill Dentinger
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>

From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 09:58:23 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.

From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <14312380.3573791199293196304.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net>

Jack;
     I have a Megellan 360 and it can be updated thru there web site via a UBS cable.

Dean T.



>From: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 10:46:32 CST
>To: fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution

>Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
>great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
>guys). >
>In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
>the internet for downloading.

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with 
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved 
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4 
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much 
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of 
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve 
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that 
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results 
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From jerrybarr at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:06:53 2008
From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:06:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>

One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 10:32:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>

Bill Dentin asked:

> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.

Shane Ingate in NM

PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
saving for the enclosed trailer.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007

From benchmarkmap at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:33:07 2008
From: benchmarkmap at charter.net (Fred & Carolyn Easton)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:33:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c84d65$8a238b40$6401a8c0@INTERNET>

As a another word of caution, we purchased a Garmin Nuvi 700 series from 
Best Buy only to find out you cannot navigate to a programmed destination 
and view your speed at the same time.  You can view speed if you don't 
navigate.  With our TR6 having different tires, OD transmission, and 
infinity diff, our Speedo is, to say the least, inaccurate.  We were 
planning on the mph aspect of the gps unit being a help.

We decided to take this back to Best Buy and were informed of the 15% 
restock fee.  This amounted to $105!!!!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
Cc: "Friends of Triumph" <FOT at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


> One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road
> or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in
> Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
> On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
>> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
>> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
>> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
>> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
>> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>>
>> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
>> the internet for downloading.
>>
>> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
>> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
>> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
>> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
>> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
>> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a
>> street light.
>>
>> uncle jack
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From greenman62 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 11:05:59 2008
From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:05:59 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU129-W15881697F5E49478408D95D2520@phx.gbl>

> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Yeah... and then not askc the locals for directions...

...not that it would help. I once asked a beat cop in NYC where I could find
the Illustrators Club and gave him the street address... He had no idea. We
were just one block away.

Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois

That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory...



> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com
> To: billdentin at aol.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> Bill Dentin asked:
>
> > I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
> > Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.
>
> Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
> This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
> Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
> off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
> My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.
>
> Shane Ingate in NM
>
> PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
> saving for the enclosed trailer.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:24:10 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:24:10 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <bef.1d6be314.34ad30ca@cs.com>

Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander   </HTML>

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:31:19 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:31:19 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander    
_______________________________________________


Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
 
We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test  
day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but that  
hasn't been decided.
 
2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:36:53 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:36:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - John McCue
Message-ID: <bd6.240a8d49.34ad33c5@cs.com>

JOHN McCUE              slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net     

Please second John McCue.

He is preparing a GT6 for combat in the ranks of SVRA....about a year away, 
so he can use our help and encouragment.

Presently he campaigns a Midget, so I figure he is moving up.

Thanks,

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>

From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:58:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:58:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d0e.1b9c3a92.34ad38d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/02/2008 12:25:10 PM Central Standard Time, 
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:


> Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.
> 
> I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
> 
> not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day
> 
> Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?
> 
> If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion, if any.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.
> 

Joe...

Last year (2007) I seem to recall there were 'extra-cost' practice/test 
sessions run on Wednesday.  The regular group sessions began on Thursday and are 
included in the entry fee.  The TR3 & TR4s (for instance) ran in Group THREE, 
which had two sessions on Thursday, one on Friday, two sessions on Saturday, and 
one on Sunday.  There was also a one hour (extra cost) enduro on Friday.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From goodparts at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 14:44:27 2008
From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:44:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>

Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.

Richard Good
Good Parts

William G Rosenbach wrote:

>Terry,
>Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>therebye
>having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>arrangement has little to do with this.
>Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>as further?
>Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>difference.
>Thanks,
>Bill
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Wed Jan  2 14:35:34 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:35:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread that stops when fully
threaded into the float bowl. I know this now because I determined that
the bolt broke because I had added a lock washer to the mix and the bolt
was not fully threaded into the bowl, leaving some thread unsupported by
a slightly loose float bowl. I didn't have a spare so I tried a simple
1/4" bolt but without the stop I had to tighten it a little tighter than
I wanted resulting in the dreaded foamy fuel syndrome. I was lucky to
find a proper bolt that evening but my backup plan was to use some brass
tubing bushes I found at Lowes over the bolt and fill the cavity with
silicone sealant. In my hunting for a proper shouldered bolt I learned
that some models of HS carburetors have rubber angle adapters where the
TR4A version is a solid piece of aluminum. I am now thinking of
following through on my homemade solution because he silicone would aid
in eliminating vibration radiating through to the float bowl. My
question to the group is that I'm wondering if others have had this
problem?.

BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365

From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:39:00 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
In-Reply-To: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEIEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

The only thing to be careful of when using a laptop
in the car is if you use a power inverter, unplug it
before restarting your car. I killed my Compaq last
fall when I restarted the car and a surge over-powered
the power supply.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
tr3a58 at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:51 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: GPS Products]


>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map
people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of
the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out
www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that
it works better than the Megellan that I also have.
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear
fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and
broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>>
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:42:56 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:42:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Or if you have a problem like me. Once when using my Garmin
on the way back from Alabama, I followed the instructions
and it wanted to send me on a 'shortcut' to bypass an
interchange in Louisville. If I had followed the instructions,
I would have driven from Louisville to Lexington on side
roads before the next opportunity to get on the x-way.

I have also had problems when, after removing the batteries
for an extended period of non-use, I forgot to reset the mode,
and it wanted me to follow footpaths and trails instead of the
x-way.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
Jerry Barr
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:07 PM
To: Jack W. Drews
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From niteseeker at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 16:22:23 2008
From: niteseeker at aol.com (dick ross)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:22:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] gps
Message-ID: <B24E724F-0423-47B6-B468-77D9591E8558@aol.com>

Here are a couple that were in my mail box this evening.

NAVGTOUR NT-147 GPS  $119

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205810212&adid=17653&dcaid=17653


GARMIN street Pilot c330 GPS  $154

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?EDP=40155795&Source=EWB010208EML

From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 16:54:25 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:25 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
In-Reply-To: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAF@server.Triumph.local>

Gee, excuse me for assuming we would have the same schedule as last
year...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JWoesvra at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions
>
> Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
>
> We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an
> extra cost test day open to everyone. We may have one session
> for TR's late in the day but that hasn't been decided.
>
> 2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Wed Jan  2 17:41:22 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:41:22 GMT
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>

Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

-- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:
Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling,
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to
me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click now to choose from thousands of designs for your checks!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmR6zGFeHhRlGIooqSuaH9EB
tRR7rTO75T2eBqCakd5zGKlO/

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:39:20 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that I
loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to use it. I
went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone to play
with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about what I
had paid for it, and never looked back.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:44:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net><20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
	<200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA786@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Years ago  a sharp machinist in Long Beach, CA did what he called a spherical
seat on the intake of my Matchless G80CS desert sled (single cylinder 500cc
motorcycle) Gave it a noticeable power boost with no apparent change in the
power band. I always figure an improvement you can feel with the seat of your
pants is at least 10%. The "spherical seat" was just a curved seat--no
angles--that was lapped by hand to seat the valve.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Jack W. Drews
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:59 AM
To: Terry and Cindy; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 18:56:46 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:56:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com
  >
References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>
Message-ID: <200801030156.m031uqdx341824@ns3.geneseo.net>

I had the same problem, and then found that others had this problem 
as well. I solved mine by drilling out the carb body and float bowl 
and putting in a larger bolt, hoping for a longer duration between failures.

At 03:35 PM 1/2/2008, Kramer, Robert wrote:
>I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
>special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread .........

.........

>BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
>with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

The worst part is it screws up the mixture and you can't drive fast 
enough to get away from the fire.


>Bob Kramer
>Sales Manager
>RDO Equipment Co.
>16415 North IH 35
>Pflugerville, TX 78660
>512-272-4141
>Fx 512-272-9365
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

uncle jack 

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 19:45:07 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:45:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that 
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to 
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone 
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about 
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the 
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down 
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get 
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my 
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 19:59:07 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:59:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080103025807.0B8BE187A1A@autox.team.net>

He has - had an Apple laptop of some sort with him on the All Aluminum Tour...

- Tony

At 08:45 PM 1/2/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Bill,
>
>You should try their computers.
>
>Allen
>
>On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
>
> > The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> > smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> > I
> > loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> > use it. I
> > went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> > to play
> > with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> > pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> > what I
> > had paid for it, and never looked back.

From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 19:54:19 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA788@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I switched from a PC to a Mac about a year ago. Impossible for a diehard
windows geek to do, I thought. But I wouldn't touch a PC now, except to run
the few programs I really need that aren't available on a Mac. I bought a
Macbook Pro because I liked the case and the overall design--like nothing you
get for Windows. I expected to boot Windows all the time, but found myself
using it less and less. Now when I use any PC, especially one with Vista, I
wonder what the hell I was thinking.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference is simple. Macs work for you, PC's
work for Microsoft.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 6:45 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Wed Jan  2 20:13:10 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:13:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

I stand correcting......... for any given camshaft, the average valve velocity will change with a rocker ratio change. For example, if changing the rocker ratio increases valve lift to say 16mm instead of 13mm, then the average velocity increase is 16/13 or 12%.  this is because the lift occurs in the same time (cam/crank moves the same amount).
What I really should have said originally, is, the biggest useful influence over the rate of valve opening, is the camshaft, because flow testing suggests you need a big increase in rate of lift early in the cycle, not just averaged. 
I will take some measurements of cam rates on various Triumph cams and report back.
To the various folk who emailed me about lifters, I understand various sized lifters can be fitted---its just a case of boring out the 12 lifter bores (tedious job).  Cam grinders will specify the minimum cam follower diameter their cam will successfuly work on. The faster the acceleration rate of the cam, the larger the lifter diameter required. If you dont get the lifter diamter correct, the cam will edge ride. This means the lower edge of the lifter will try to dig into the cam, rather than ride up and over it.
I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data, or even what is the most agreeive cam people have found to work on stock lifters.
Terry O'Beirne

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 20:23:38 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:23:38 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Computers
Message-ID: <9a6f72dc820c4db3e3ac8736ae5273ae@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

Absolutely!
I own a 30 person architectural practice and we have been using Mac's 
since 1988. When we get a new machine, we just plug it in and start 
using it. They are very intuitive as you know which is exactly why we 
chose to go the Apple direction.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 20:34:49 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:34:49 EST
Subject: [Fot] Back on the Freinds of Triumph Mailing list for Bill Redinger
Message-ID: <d67.1fb62bc9.34adb1d9@cs.com>

Mark Bradakis,   Please pop Bill back on the FoT list.   He was accidently 
dropped.


 Bill Redinger          wredinger at oppd.com

For you that know Bill....he a Tireless Supporter of Triumph (which makes 
them hard to drive)....please welcome him back to the list.

Bill Redinger will be joining us at Watkins Glen in September, driving in 
from Nebraska.  

Tom Strange....you can add Bill to the list of attendees, too.

Thanks!       Joe A   </HTML>

From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 20:49:29 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:49:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS
Message-ID: <20080103034822.0AD9C1879E3@autox.team.net>

Original bounced - I was at 4345 bytes.

I don't have either of those units.  But, I know how to find 
reviews...  Go to www.amazon.com and search for the GPS unit(s) 
you're interested in.  There are many reviews there.  Both units had 
reviews comparing the two (interesting that they chose both of those 
units on both reviews).  Overall, people seem pleased with both, but 
report occasional directional glitches.  The TomTom is purported to 
have more complete maps, but sometimes try to send you on a wild 
goose chase.  The TomTom will not tell you to turn around on a 2 lane 
road if you miss a turn.  It seems to be up to you to figure that out.

I, like Jack and Joe, have the Magellan Roadmate 2000.  From what I 
read, Magellan is rated lower than Garmin or TomTom.  While my unit 
has a USB port and the ability to update firmware, no new maps have 
been released for it by Magellan.  The new interchange on 894 (?) 
through Milwaukee confuses it a bit, although it provides good enough 
directions that it all worked out OK.

The TomTom will give you spoken street names (sometimes garbled if it 
can't figure out how to pronounce them).  To me that's not a big 
deal.  I turn right when my Magellan tells me to turn right and all 
is generally well.  I find that it occasionally misses telling me to 
turn when I'm staying on the same "route" but the "route" bears right 
or left.  For interstate use it's flawless.

While I don't need the bells and whistles (MP3 player, slideshow, 
bluetooth, etc.), having a well stocked Points Of Interest (POI) 
database can be a valuable thing, especially once you've arrived at 
the race or are looking for a hotel midway there to spend the 
night.  Mine found the grocery store in Independence, Iowa.  But, it 
had no clue where the nearest Best Buy was in Seattle.

For trips to Mosport, having Canada maps would be nice.

So, in summary, the features I'd be looking for if I wanted to 
upgrade my Magellan:
updateable maps with a vendor who actually provides these updates
larger POI database
Potentially, Canada maps

I will say that after using my Magellan for a week, I wondered how 
I'd ever gotten along without it.  It TOTALLY took the stress out of 
driving around in Seattle.  I was in the HOV lane, and it had a weird 
exit between the regular lane and the HOV lane that I inadvertently 
took.  Normally that's an Oh SH*T moment, but it calmly told me to 
turn right and left until we were back on the highway.  Took less 
than 5 min and we were back in the HOV lane flying.

Also, the "shortest time" routes work well.  "Shortest distance" is 
probably questionable in any GPS unit.  "Least use of freeways" is 
the way to go when driving a convertible in the summertime.  My drive 
from Joe's wedding back home was glorious because of that unit.

One thing to note: <snip>

- Tony

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 21:17:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:17:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
Message-ID: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>

FoT,

Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world 
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to our 
world? 

John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com

John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored 
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a 
TV series.
Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the 
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.  
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

Joe Alexander    </HTML>

From jibjib at att.net  Wed Jan  2 22:44:16 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:44:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
	<2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <02fa01c84dcb$ae241800$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Henry,

We have a Volvo XC90 with a nav screen that rises up out of the top of the
dash into an awesome position; very well thought our and effective.  The
steering wheel has controls and a remote control works too.  Unfortunately,
the rest of the system, while not a bad system, is not up to the same level
of sophistication as are the better aftermarket units.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Henry Frye
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has the
built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto the
dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are, also
food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory nav
systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it presented
it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily the
fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until it gets
a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from perfect. Helen
tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's bearings, but did
eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be interested
to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in traffic
nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone has shown
much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to include
traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where you
are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 09:08:02 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:08:02 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1104189@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Our website is very old in website terms and is getting a revamp in
2008.
watch this space


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com <outbind://137/www.revingtontr.com>





________________________________

From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com]
Sent: 02 January 2008 15:55
To: Neil Revington; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications



Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets
very well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our
attention to it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From jsnook at wcnet.org  Thu Jan  3 07:47:27 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:47:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
References: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c84e17$8fd27d50$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?  Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan and worked well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to attend!!

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: JWoesvra at aol.com
  To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions


  In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
  N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

  Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

  I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It
is
  not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

  Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

  If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

  Sorry for the confusion, if any.

  Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

  Joe Alexander
  _______________________________________________


  Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?

  We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test
  day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but
that
  hasn't been decided.

  2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.

  Jack Woehrle



  **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
  (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:02:16 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:02:16 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d66.1fc0e6d8.34ae52f8@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 9:48:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jsnook at wcnet.org writes:

Hey  Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?   Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan  and worked 
well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could  not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the  featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to  attend!!


That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so  
can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and I've 
 only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan  3 08:18:20 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:18:20 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <cc1.263a6ca1.34ae56bc@cs.com>

Thanks Jeff!  

People were quite excited about having that option at Road America. It gets 
folks organized quickly in the paddock and the adrenaline pumping. A lot of 
grinning from gear to gear, as Kent Howard would say. We are also planning an 
informal gathering in the paddock, that evening.

Jack, I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this some thought.

Regards,

Joe A



> That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so 
> can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and 
> I've only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
>  
> jw
> 

   </HTML>

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:25:53 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:25:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <d01.20af7492.34ae5881@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 10:18:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Jack,  I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your  Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this  duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this  some thought.

Regards,

Joe A


We can do that. We can weed out the "cheaters" right there in front of  
everyone!
 
You said you had a tent. Can we use several stalls for tech and run them  
through tent? That would be better for us than trying to go to everyone's  
trailer.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 09:18:04 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:18:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:

> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!

> -- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:

rml

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
GIVE them the camera - then SELL 'EM A LOT OF FILM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan  3 09:34:25 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <003601c84e26$81132b20$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I have found that it is very difficult to determine beforehand the cost of
upgrading the maps for most of these units.  I think that is intentional
because it becomes a deterrant to anyone buying one of these things.

Joe C.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Lang" <lang at isis.mit.edu>
To: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products


> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
> > Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can
also
> > store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever
and
> > usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing
I have
> > been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.
Spend all
> > that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,
restaurants,
> > points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the
price of
> > the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!

From dave at microworks.net  Thu Jan  3 12:02:16 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:02:16 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <20080103190658.DEPW2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
aware of another car also wanting to pass.

This video starts on the approach to Turn 9 (uphill hairpin) where I 
checked my mirrors and I let a Porsche Cup Car pass my TR3 by staying 
deeper into the corner to let him stay on the line on exit.

The video them continues down the back straight and into the Oval 
where I am passed by two more Porsche Cup Cars on either side of me!

It is the top video on our TR Club website Gallery

http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22

From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 12:26:01 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:26:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <c32.222ff945.34ae90c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/03/2008 1:07:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
dave at microworks.net writes:


> I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
> and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
> weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
> the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
> track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
> aware of another car also wanting to pass.
> 

AMEN to that.  This is a particular issue with new racers.  There is a 
subconscious urge for new racers to 'get out of the way.'  Big mistake.  Critical to 
stay on the traditional line.  If you see a faster car coming, point to where 
you would prefer to be passed, but also stay on the line and be aware you 
might not see everyone who is coming.  

Another thing I like to tell new racers is, while it is important to watch 
your mirrors, it is even more important to be deciding where you should be going 
next.  I recommend quick periodic glances to the mirrors, then back to 'where 
am I going next.  New racers often are preoccupied with their mirrors (which 
can scare them to death), causing them to stray off the line.

Bill Dentinger
  


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From jfrymark at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 13:23:21 2008
From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:23:21 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <92A5491A-53FE-4CCE-B07D-440910051015@aol.com>

It's called "Schick-ing it to 'em".  Getting an aluminum radiator  
from TRF for Christmas. Any special issues mounting an electric fan?

John Frymark

On Jan 3, 2008, at 11:00 AM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
>> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It  
>> can also
>> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or  
>> whatever and
>> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only  
>> thing I have
>> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map  
>> update.  Spend all
>> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,  
>> restaurants,
>> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of  
>> the price of
>> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!

From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan  3 13:33:17 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>

Richard Good wrote:
> Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
>
> Richard Good
> Good Parts
>
> William G Rosenbach wrote:
>
>   
>> Terry,
>> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>> therebye
>> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>> arrangement has little to do with this.
>> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>> as further?
>> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>> difference.
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
overbore the lifter bores.  Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  3 14:22:24 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:22:24 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
Message-ID: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Hi, Everyone

And thanks to you Joe for arranging my re-admission. For those who have been
FOTers for some time and may remember me from years back, my world has changed
quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

In 2004 I re-married and for this august event two Triumphs played an active
part. My (then) 1974 2000 sedan took Liz from our home to the Register Office
for our ceremony and then my fuel injected sedan took us both to the party
afterwards - and then off on our honeymoon.

In 2005, I had a stroke but this wasn't anything to do with events the
previous year!

Since then, I've retired from paid work and now do more unpaid work than I
ever thought possible. The leisure times (some of them) are spent writing
stories with a Standard-Triumph flavour for the largest Triumph Club in the
UK. It has about 10,000 members in the UK and is very active on many different
fronts. When I'm not doing that, Liz and I spend as much time as we can in our
caravan (trailer) which comfortably sleeps four people and we go off at
weekends to somewhere different but never all that far from home. When we're
not living in our larger caravan, I'm working on another smaller one which
later this year will be used by people who can't afford a vacation but want to
get away somewhere. This is part of the charity (non-profit) I've established
that raises money for other charities and is an event organiser in its own
right. We do classic car road runs and fundraising events. Two of note in 2008
are getting blind people to drive a car on a private road and the other is a
one day road run in which more blind people will act as navigators for cars in
which they are passengers. We've done both events before and they not only
raise a lot of money but are great fun as well.

And then, as Joe commented, I'm busy planning the Triumph Trans-AmeriCan
Charity Drive in 2009 that will last about 9000 miles and finish at Triumphest
and coincide with the North American Triumph Challenge at the same venue. I'll
be doing that in a Stag. You'll find details at www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk
and there's a "Keep Informed" facility where you can receive email updates
from me as the planning gets closer and closer to reality.

'S good to be back

Cheers, Jonmac
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: N197TR4 at cs.com
  To: standardtriumph at btinternet.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:17 AM
  Subject: Please Welcome Back John Macartney (AKA JonMac)


  FoT,

  Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to
our world?


  John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com



  John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a
TV series.
  Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

  John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

  Joe Alexander

From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 14:52:38 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>

On our current race motor for the TR6 we bored the lifter holes for ford
lifters...Ted is correct...the lifter bores are not perpendicular to the
block face....What we did is used a CNC machine and wrote a program to do
the job...the blocks are between 1 and 2 thousands from one to another
using the locating tabs on the pan flange surface...aside from calculating
the degree of offset, each hole center was found, and lastly the lifter
directly in front of the cam drive needs to be moved forward about 25 thou
when using the 875 lifters...it is also important to do aprox. a .900 or so
cut initially in the very top of the bore to remove the webbing curve to
give a flat face to start the boring process and get a clean cut and not
destroy your bit...Chip


> [Original Message]
> From: Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>
> To: Richard Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> Date: 1/3/2008 3:58:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> Richard Good wrote:
> > Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> > times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> > installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> > cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> > 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> > 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
> >
> > Richard Good
> > Good Parts
> >
> > William G Rosenbach wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Terry,
> >> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
> >> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
> >> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
> >> therebye
> >> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
> >> arrangement has little to do with this.
> >> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as
well
> >> as further?
> >> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
> >> difference.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >>
> >> Fot mailing list
> >> Fot at autox.team.net
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >>     
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
> on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
> overbore the lifter bores.  Ted
>
> -- 
> Ted Schumacher
> tedtsimx at bright.net
> http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
> 108 S. Jefferson St.
> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
> Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
> Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
> Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM

From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan  3 14:49:07 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FW: Night Before Christmas?
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOFDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Just got this today, but thought this group wiuld enjoy it.

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the paddock,
Not a motor was stirring, not even an impact;
The stockings were hung by the pit fence with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;

The drivers were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of championships danced in their heads;
And mamma in her checkered flag, and I in my Bell,
Had just settled down for a long winter's spell,

When out on the grid there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
To the back of the trailer I flew like a shift,
Unlocked the rampdoor, and let down the lift.

The moon on the crest of the new-paved front straight,
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects so late,
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a formula car, screaming by in top gear.

Such a noise caused the chief steward to immediately arise,
And by the look on his face he had words for this guy,
He shouted aloud in his most gruff voice,
"It's quiet time now, GET OFF OF THE COURSE"!

Then sound control had been stirred from its slumber,
And yelled to the chief steward, "I've never seen such a DB number!"
The chief of tech said, upon seeing this fellow,
"I've never seen that car, and I know it has no annual".

The chief steward demanded to know this driver's intent,
To which registration replied, "Maybe he's a late registrant."
Suddenly timing and scoring appeared from yonder,
And chimed in "That car on course has no transponder."

Though I couldn't see the driver, he went by so quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than Schuey his crew they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, JACKMAN! now, TIRE CHANGER! now, CREWCHIEF and FUELMAN!
On, ENGINEER! on FABRICATOR! on, MANAGER and TIREMAN!
Beyond the tech shed! to base of the pit wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

As valves that before the busted cam fly,
When they meet with a piston, mount to the sky,
So to the base of the timing tower the crewman they flew,
With a hauler full of "go fast" bits, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a flash, I heard on the grid
The roaring and thunder that each piston did.
As I drew on my pitboard, and was turning about,
into Victory Lane, St. Nicholas had arrived, without doubt.

He was dressed all in Simpson, from his head to his boots,
And his suit was all tarnished with oil and soot;
A bundle of speed parts he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a vendor just opening his pack.

His face shield -- how it twinkled! his helmet decals shone!
His patches were like a mural, his name scripted like a pro!
His neck restraint was the best design we'd seen yet,
And his gloves and his boots were a perfectly matched set;

His tools spoke volumes, he used all that they had,
A mouse, a keyboard, a computer, and CAD;
This just confirmed what we already knew,
More than a great driver, he is a great designer too.

The parcels for the stockings that he brought along,
Dripped of technology that helped engines make song;
A look at the sides of his car showed there had been no rubbing here,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to fear;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to pacing,
And filled all the stockings; with parts for racing,
Then flipping the master power switch, and laying his finger on the starter,
And into first gear, back down pit road, but no farther;

He sprang from his car, to his team gave a holler,
And immediately they loaded the car back in the hauler.
But I heard him exclaim, as they tore out from the line,
"HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND SHIFT IN TURN 9!"

From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 14:57:25 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:57:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Jan  3 15:08:34 2008
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:08:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Ford lifters
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74957856@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>

And does anyone know where to get lighter Ford lifters?  Those larger
lifters must also be quite a lot heavier.

Scott B.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Robert Lang
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:57 PM
To: U K MOTORSPORTS
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From cartravel at pobox.com  Thu Jan  3 15:54:49 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:54:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
References: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
Message-ID: <477D67B9.3070500@pobox.com>

A couple years ago I had a stock cam and 5 high performance TR4 cams run 
on a Cam Doctor.  This is a very accurate machine to measure the cam 
lift curve.  Of course, you can measure the curve with a degree wheel 
and dial indicator and you can get pretty good numbers for the lift and 
velocity (first derivative), but you won't have enough accuracy to get 
acceleration.  Here are a few results I observed:
1. the maximum flank acceleration on a stock cam is twice as high as 4 
of the 5 performance cams.
2. the maximum velocity on all but one cam was low enough to allow use 
of small block chevy lifters.
3. the recommended valve lash on 3 of the performance cams was so large 
that first contacted occurred on the flank at high velocity.
Needless to say, this data completely changed my opinions about cams and 
cam grinders/designers.

Someone mentioned using greater acceleration rates with high rocker 
ratios.  You should keep in mind that the valve spring rates and valve 
weight scale with the square of the rocker ratio, i.e 21% greater for 
1.65 vs 1.5.  If everything else is equal, you'd have to tone down the 
acceleration rates on the cam to maintain similar forces on the cam and 
tappet.
Larry Young

roadandtrack at bigpond.com wrote:
> I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data .....
> Terry O'Beirne
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Thu Jan  3 16:48:54 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:48:54 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <17253697.1199404134872.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

chip, 
thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???

can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully running with these bigger lifters.

thanks, Terry . 

From trhouse at greenapple.com  Thu Jan  3 17:20:13 2008
From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Minneapolis  Fot help needed
In-Reply-To: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <C3A2E5ED.31F5%trhouse@greenapple.com>

Anyone out there near Minneapolis
Please contact me off list

Thanks 

tom Householder

From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 19:23:08 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:23:08 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net> <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
Message-ID: <20080104022204.23E6C187A4A@autox.team.net>

Is that true for the TR-4 as well as the GT-6?

- Tony

At 02:33 PM 1/3/2008, Ted Schumacher wrote:
>Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are
>on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and
>overbore the lifter bores.  Ted

From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 19:32:51 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>

If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter installed
in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is inboard
somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info together
on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the first
of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on to
get  this done...Chip 


> [Original Message]
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard
Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> chip, 
> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the
non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never
done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I
had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses
a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>
> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully
running with these bigger lifters.
>
> thanks, Terry . 
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:11:28 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:11:28 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>

Chip,

This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification 
to my TR6.
The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.

Allen

On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:32 PM, U K MOTORSPORTS wrote:

> If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter 
> installed
> in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is 
> inboard
> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info 
> together
> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the 
> first
> of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on 
> to
> get  this done...Chip
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
>> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; 
>> Richard
> Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
>> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>>
>> chip,
>> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if 
>> the
> non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have 
> never
> done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  
> I
> had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford 
> uses
> a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>>
>> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are 
>> sucessfully
> running with these bigger lifters.
>>
>> thanks, Terry .
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
	<d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080104032231.8422E187A0B@autox.team.net>

Here's some solid lifters at Comp cams: 
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html
(pictures show hydaulic lifters, though)

- Tony

At 09:11 PM 1/3/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Chip,
>
>This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification
>to my TR6.
>The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.
>
>Allen

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lifters
Message-ID: <d705c69357d050460bc92b71c34d1bef@wi.rr.com>

Oops. That should have read: new Ford GT lifter (as in GT 40).

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Thu Jan  3 22:05:39 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] oversize lifters
Message-ID: <477DBEA3.3070104@cyberspeedway.net>

      The use of oversize (Ford size) lifters is one of the things that 
allowed Chevrolet to catch Ford in NASCAR in the late 80's. After Bill 
Elliot and the Ford camp got competitive in the mid 80's, Chevrolet 
whined until they were allowed bigger lifters. That was the start of the 
  homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have 
no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were 
dimensionally equal to the production piece.
      Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with 
oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.
      The lifter application to ask for is the 427 FE Ford High 
Performance. These are the bucket style and light weight. Another 
application is the 2TC and 3TC Toyota. I bought mine from Norris Cams 10 
years ago for my street TR6. They were cheaper and better than any 
Triumph lifter I have ever seen. Check that the push rod radius matches 
the seat radius in the lifter-almost cost me a lot of money-D'OH. Use 
bluing if your unsure.
Greg Lund

From markjwea at msn.com  Fri Jan  4 05:19:11 2008
From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:19:11 +0100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W23C703C59FF399285485B8C94C0@phx.gbl>

I seem to remember having to move the  centerline of the bore next to the
distributor gear over by .010 for clearance when I put .875 lifters in my TR6,
might want to check this.

Mark Weathers> From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net> To: roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re:
[Fot] roller rockers and head flow> > If you look at the TR6 block from the
front with a stock lifter installed> in #1 with out the cam installed you will
see that the cam bore is inboard> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it.
I will get some info together> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting
with my machinist the first> of the week and will get some figures on the
program that we worked on to> get this done...Chip > > > > [Original Message]>
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>> > To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>> > Cc:
<fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard> Good
<goodparts at verizon.net>> > Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM> > Subject: Re: [Fot]
roller rockers and head flow> >> > chip, > > thanks for the info about the
lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the> non-verticality is a factory
machining error or deliberate. I have never> done this on TR blocks, so I've
never had cause to look that closely. I> had located some very light 22mm
Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses> a nice light solid lifter of
0.875"???> >> > can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are
sucessfully> running with these bigger lifters.> >> > thanks, Terry . > >> >>
> -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free
Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release
Date:> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM> _______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 06:51:51 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
Message-ID: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a 
specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set 
valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at 
these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the end of 
the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking 
the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the 
rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  4 08:32:50 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:32:50 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
In-Reply-To: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a  
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.  
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was  
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the  
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash  
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even  
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running . 
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young  
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing  
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as  
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the  
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6

From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan  3 17:10:46 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:10:46 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <003301c84e66$419120c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

.............That was the start of the
>   homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
> no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
> dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>       Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
> oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street cars?

Steve P.

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 09:22:36 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:22:36 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 
 
It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
 
Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:33:41 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:33:41 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the initial
valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the seat) so the
sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases will start evacuating
through a large hole rather than a small crack. The cam has a ramp to it, even
if not by design, then by geometry, and letting the lash and slack in the
lifting system take up the ramp allows the cam to get into the meat of it's
opening cycle before the valve begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often on
bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the power and
torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would increase until you
added too much, then it would go down again. It's a small amount so II never
could really separate the effect from the variation inherent in repeated dyno
runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of runs knows what I mean by this) but I
still "knew" it was there, so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam
builder's spec.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg - Lunker
Hilyer
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 7:32 AM
To: Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running .
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From triosan at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 09:48:59 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>

At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products and
also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
"public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are two
different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.  The
super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
[described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive, powerful
deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are neither
flow rates not sound descriptions given.
http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html

To the FOT racing community:
With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
good scavaging and acceptable DB?

On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:

> Vance:
>
> At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing any
> of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment of
> creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these recommended
> mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael
> '76 Tahiti blue
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> 6pack at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> You are subscribed as triosan at gmail.com
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold

From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:52:08 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:52:08 -0800
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA790@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

IMHO, yes and no. I think we all struggle with making our cars reliable and
reasonably fast. When you put a hot cam in a tractor motor (absolutely in
accordance with vintage spirit) you compromise the lifters. With the limited
selection of good lifters available and the problems everyone is having with
oil, a reasonable choice is to fit something that will last because it's made
of good stuff and is not sized for a tractor's gentle ramps. Vintage racing is
expensive enough without having your cams get toasted on a regular
basis--along with the often spectacular failure that oils the track (to Jack's
dismay).

The question is, are you upgrading your lifters so you can push the outside
edge of cam design (as NASCAR guys did) or are you trying to hold your stuff
together using Cam design knowledge that has been around since the fifties. I
think we'd be kidding ourselves to think we're acting like NASCAR engine
designers--we ain't that motivated (I was going to say SMART but some of you
guys are).

The choice of using a computer to do the boring has nothing to do with vintage
spirit. Any good machinist can do it with a hundred year old bridgeport. It
will just take forever to set it up and cost a fortune. Using a CAM mill to do
it is just a lot easier. The factory did it without CAM.

All this said, I haven't done any of this yet. But if I can't find more
Unobtanium ceramic lifters, I probably will. And I'll be using the same cams I
always do. they just won't break the motor.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of JWoesvra at aol.com
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:22 AM
To: spreiss at verizon.net; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] steroid use

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and
computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
Vintage Community.

It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:05:29 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:05:29 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bf9.2c2f7015.34afc159@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/04/2008 10:24:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
JWoesvra at aol.com writes:


> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the 
>  
> Vintage Community. 
> 
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
> 

Jack...

I agree with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.

Hammered Lifter Syndrome!  I suspect, working with Ken Gillanders/BFG, we may 
have been among the first to use those FORD lifters in one of our engines.  I 
think I recall our mechanic, Kevin Potter, also stumbled on the 'freeze em 
first' way to make them fit.  But for sure our decision to use them was because 
we could no longer get good NOS lifters.  The crap we were getting from China 
and India (etc) was worthless.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:21:55 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:21:55 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <cf1.264fef72.34afc533@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:05:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, BillDentin  
writes:


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of  enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 

It is also way  beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage   Racing".



Jack...

I agree  with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.



I do too.
 
Y'all know that I am always for improvements that solve reliability and  
availability issues.
 
That is always a good thing. It just scares me a little when guys take that  
newfound reliability and use it to up the performance, thereby negating the  
reliability gain.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan  4 10:35:28 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
	<8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.  It
is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound limit.  I
believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html and I know
they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little louder.  My
car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my PI
setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out during a
race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue

From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 10:36:11 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:36:11 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7495791A@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA791@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

No science, no assumptions of better power, I just can't stand the noise.


-----Original Message-----
From: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:59 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: RE: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

<<so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.>>

Did you mean loose side?  Or is there an assumption, inherent in your
choice, that cam designers set their lash spec looser than it really
needs to be and, therefor, starting on the tight side of their spec gets
you back into the part of the curve where you're getting additional
power?

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:34 AM
To: Greg - Lunker Hilyer; Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the
initial valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the
seat) so the sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases
will start evacuating through a large hole rather than a small crack.
The cam has a ramp to it, even if not by design, then by geometry, and
letting the lash and slack in the lifting system take up the ramp allows
the cam to get into the meat of it's opening cycle before the valve
begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often
on bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the
power and torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would
increase until you added too much, then it would go down again. It's a
small amount so II never could really separate the effect from the
variation inherent in repeated dyno runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of
runs knows what I mean by this) but I still "knew" it was there, so I
always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.

--

From spyderweb at uwalumni.com  Fri Jan  4 11:15:23 2008
From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
	<037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <01a401c84efd$c6ccc4a0$3bea2a4b@gcllawyers.local>

John Macartney wrote:

> For those who have been FOTers for some time and
> may remember me from years back, my world has changed
> quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

Welcome back John! I'll not soon forget Mr. Macartney's hospitality during 
my visit to the Heritage Motor Centre at Gaydon while I was in Merrie Olde 
to see the Goodwood races in '01.

Congratulations on you marriage, your retirement and your continued 
contribution to all things Triumphant.

Jim Hill
Madison WI

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Fri Jan  4 11:20:25 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:20:25 GMT
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
Message-ID: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Fri Jan  4 12:23:34 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:23:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] lifters
Message-ID: <200801041923.m04JNenU266128@ns3.geneseo.net>

First the good news:

I've been trying to find the best lifter deal and may be making some 
progress. BPNW lists heavy duty lifters in their catalog and on their 
website. They sell them to some of the other domestic suppliers. They 
say that all the lifters are over 54 Rockwell C. Of course, like any 
manufactured product, not every piece is checked. I am purchasing 16 
of these and will have each one of them tested (costs me $5 apiece 
but I need good lifters) and will report the findings to the FOT list 
(with BPNW's approval). BPNW is nice to work with.

Now the bad news:

The leading manufacturer of ceramic lifters, Schubeck, no longer has 
an active phone number, and other websites that discuss these lifters 
say that they are no longer available.

uncle jack 

From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Fri Jan  4 12:28:46 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:28:46 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers 
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago. 
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current 
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the 
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket 
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1" 
x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have 
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive 
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
> 
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From lang at isis.mit.edu  Fri Jan  4 13:09:23 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:09:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
In-Reply-To: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801041444120.30851@ankh.mit.edu>

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 JWoesvra at aol.com wrote:

> Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
> boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Hi -

At the risk of offending and so forth, not everyone on FOT is a 
died-in-the-wool vintage racer. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact.

In fact, some of us are current racers with SCCA and other groups.

But a general point in that regard is that in order to keep the cars 
running some ingenuity is needed. Solving problems like worn out cams is 
one such instance.

> Steve P.
>
>
> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
> Vintage Community.
>
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

I agree 100% with this statement. Which is one reason why I don't run 
vintage right now. My car isn't a real race car from back in the day, and 
owning a "real race car" is pretty much not in my future because of a lot 
of factors.

Interestingly, I run in current SCCA (solo) in a car that (except for the 
current flared fenders and the roll cage) is pretty much a 1972 GCR legal 
car. Yes, I'm not competitive at the national level, but I have a car that 
is way kool and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Well, if someone gave me 
a GT1 car, I might let go - but there would be some wimpering...

But the point of my message is that FOT is actually a pretty diverse group 
with a common interest - TRIUMPHS. How we use our Triumphs is actually one 
aspect of the group where divergence occurs.

As a point of information, had I fully understood the cam follower thing 
when I had my last cam done, I might have done things a bit differently so 
that my $600+ cam job would last more than a couple of seasons. C'est la 
vie!

> Jack Woehrle
> SVRA Technical Director

regards,
rml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 13:24:54 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:24:54 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a set of
the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be a fuzzy
area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except they are
aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan  4 15:13:42 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:13:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Speaking of GPS
Message-ID: <3880.81718.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just got this in a newsletter today...

* GPS devices: Road tested and reviewed
http://cwflyris.computerworld.com/t/2594280/36312132/93229/2/

Gary Schneider

From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 15:32:39 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:32:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] Global Positioning Systems
Message-ID: <cea.25eff8d0.34b00e07@aol.com>

Amici...

In case I missed someone, thanks to all who responded with comments on 
portable global positioning systems.

I believe I am going to purchase a GARMIN-nuvi 350 GPS.

I am just waiting for Shirley to fall asleep so I can get into her purse.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 16:51:37 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:51:37 -0600
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a  
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be  
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except  
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?   
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.   
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part  
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if  
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.   
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum  
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to  
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on  
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of  
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how  
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy  
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/ 
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Fri Jan  4 17:51:54 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, you might try Richard Good (610 777-4457). He uses 300ZX diffs with some
of his hub/axle setups. He may have a source(s) for the calipers or info on
where to get them.
Good luck,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers


> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I
can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I
have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM5
3
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  4 20:34:32 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Alloy sump for Herald/Spit on eBay
Message-ID: <BLU127-W12E3A057B42E41DA5F2A898C4D0@phx.gbl>

Item 150200754411.  Its in the UK.

Usual disclaimers here.

Shane Ingate, picking up my contribution to global warming (6.6L Duramax)
tomorrow, in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008

From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 22:52:30 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:52:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA797@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Not Girling style, they are AP, a little bigger than girlings I think, but not
much. I've been able to get performance friction, ferodo, and several other
pads for them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 3:51 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:19:10 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:19:10 -0000
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A71@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Hi Charley
If you wont an original one we have stock
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Charly Mitchel
Sent: 04 January 2008 17:35
To: Chuck Arnold; samuelsma at aol.com
Cc: 6pack at autox.team.net; vance.navarrette at intel.com; Friends
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.
It is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound
limit.  I believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html
and I know they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little
louder.  My car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my
PI setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out
during a race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a
little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there
products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There
are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the
Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410
cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a
straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that
provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually
hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the
disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:42:33 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:42:33 -0000
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A73@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Should aftermarket calipers be allowed in the future, we have developed
serious kits in conjunction with Hi Spec.
Have a look at RTR4461PK as an example
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4461PK

This kit has plain 280mm (11" in old money) discs (rotors) which we can
supply hardened for FIA applications where solid discs must be used.

Then we have RTR4458K which could be made 280mm if required

http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4458K

This is the same kit as RTR4461PK but with  vented discs. These kits use
Billet 4 calipers which are good for road, track day, sprint, mild race.
For long race, endureo etc, the R114/4 caliper is best, as used on our
TR7 kits RTR4481K and RTR4482K which use a vented disc

This kit can easily be morphed into TR2-6

We also do a Herald, spitfire, GT6 kit but don't advertise it!

I hope this helps

Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
greg
Sent: 04 January 2008 19:29
To: Joe Boruch; FOT LIST
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago.
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1"

x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990)
> 300ZX.  This are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.
> They are part #'s 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am
> looking to see if I can adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get
> the SCCA to allow them.  I have already gotten a verbal approval that
> SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from a production vehicle.  We
> (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA to allow any
> caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers, but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and

> see how close they are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to
> fit then I can buy some.  The 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit
> that I have found by researching dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn27
> 3SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From srcypher at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 05:28:06 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:28:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cheap(er)Triumph TR6 Parts Alert
In-Reply-To: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <E067BA5D-C2FA-4437-9DF7-FF28F083EED6@mac.com>

Found these on Craigs list in the PA area, if any of you are interested

tr6 motor and 4spd trans: $200
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/529050179.html

1969 car with spares for restoration $1500
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/car/526347387.html

From tlizzard at msn.com  Sat Jan  5 08:22:44 2008
From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:22:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <BAY116-DAV9355E929C2D7456EA29A3C34D0@phx.gbl>

I do believe that there is a Toyota 4 pot caliper as used on the 4WD small
pickups that is a direct bolt on for the early TR serices cars.
I know I've seen some cars with that caliper installed.

I'd like info on that setup myself for my street car.

Terry Stetler

From cartravel at pobox.com  Sat Jan  5 10:42:47 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:42:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration
In-Reply-To: <477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>

Oops, too long the first time.
> Ok, this is probably more about this subject than you really want to know.
>
> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.  You can measure the 
> lift curve with a degree wheel and dial indicator.  It just won't be 
> this accurate. The velocity is the slope of the lift curve, which 
> could be calculated in a spreadsheet. The acceleration is the slope of 
> the velocity or the curvature of the lift curve.
>
> You will notice there is a constant velocity ramp at the opening and 
> closing ends of the lift curve.  The purpose of the ramp is to avoid 
> smacking the cam too hard.  You want the valve to start opening at the 
> point I have indicated.  If you want to know what valve clearance to 
> use and you do not have a cam card (or maybe even if you do) you have 
> to consider both the rocker ratio and the flexibility of the linkage.  
> Once the cam contacts the lifter, there will be 0.002 to 0.004 in of 
> cam lift taken up by compression of the linkage (pushrod, etc.) before 
> the valve starts to open.  If you look at the graph, the point I've 
> indicated for valve opening occurs at about 0.010 cam lift.  Using 
> 0.003 for compression, the valve clearance should be set at (0.010 - 
> 0.003)*1.5 = 0.0105.  You would not want to use less valve clearance, 
> because the valve would be just cracked open for several degrees.  The 
> cam designer can make the ramp end at any lift, but I don't know why 
> you would ever design a cam for more than 0.015 valve clearance. 
>
> As Bill and others have mentioned.  Once the valve starts to open, you 
> want to open it as quickly as possible.  Upward curvature of the lift 
> curve is acceleration.  Unfortunately, high acceleration means high 
> force (remember mass times acceleration).   High acceleration also 
> triggers high amplitude vibrations in the valve train, which can lead 
> to valve float, etc.  The graph shows a maximum acceleration of about 
> 0.0006 in/deg/deg which is typical for a high performance pushrod 
> engine with solid lifters.  The increased stiffness of an OHC permits 
> cams with about twice as much acceleration, i.e. much quicker 
> opening.  This is the biggest advantage of an OHC.  Stiffness is more 
> important than weight.
>
> As I mentioned in my previous post, 3 cams specified a valve clearance 
> which caused opening on the flank, and the TR-666 was one them.  It's 
> ramp ends at about 0.01 lift also.  At a valve clearance of 0.028 you 
> are up on the flank at high velocity.  My conclusion from all this is 
> that most of these cams were never designed for use in a Triumph.  
> They are probably recycled from some other application. 
> Larry

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan  5 12:04:42 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:04:42 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
Message-ID: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of  
a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside 
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt 
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 12:22:57 2008
From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:22:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
References: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY109-W24F9F2850B1436B3557549A54D0@phx.gbl>

> FoT,> > Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width
of > a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside >
face of the the rotor surface)?

Not less than 1.475" as per Service Information Bulletin Sports/16/R, May
1958.

John H.

From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan  5 14:32:17 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:17 -0600
Subject: [Fot] AE Cam chains - TR-3/4
Message-ID: <20080105213124.9283F1879D7@autox.team.net>

British Parts Northwest shows AE cam chain for the TR-3/4 on their 
website.  There was some discussion earlier about where to get them...

- Tony

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sat Jan  5 15:56:58 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:56:58 +1100
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
design at the time.

Steve P.

From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 08:19:32 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>

I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter 
size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006 
in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of 
the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for 
chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get 
the maximum performance.

Larry Young wrote:
>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
>> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.

From BillDentin at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:34:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
spreiss at verizon.net writes:


> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" 
> for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
> 
> 

Steve...

I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production 
based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.  
I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the 
'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I remember early 
ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats, 
AND disc brakes.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 08:45:01 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:45:01 -0700
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV578AC8E59A86C8D504419B74E0@phx.gbl>

(Found while Googling) The Citrokn DS of 1955, with powered inboard front disc
brakes, and the 1956 Triumph TR3 were the first European production cars to
feature modern disc brakes.
      Kevin

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BillDentin at aol.com<mailto:BillDentin at aol.com>
  To: spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net>
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


  In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
  spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net> writes:


  > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car
in
  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can
anyone
  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"
  > for
  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern
automotive
  > design at the time.
  >
  >

  Steve...

  I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production
  based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs'
cars.
  I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
  'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I
remember early
  ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,
  AND disc brakes.

  Bill Dentinger



  **************
  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489<http:
//body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/fot>

From fubog1 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:48:21 2008
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:48:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
In-Reply-To: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CA1E92B2FF0C36-1350-5632@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

here's a link to wikipedia, it's a good summary


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake


BTW they were originally advertised as "spot" brakes (aircraft term).


Glen










-----Original Message-----

From: BillDentin at aol.com

To: spreiss at verizon.net

Cc: fot at autox.team.net

Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34 am

Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design





In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,   spreiss at verizon.net writes:      > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"   > for  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive  > design at the time.  >   >     Steve...    I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production   based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.    I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the   'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I   remember early   ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,   AND disc brakes.    Bill Dentinger        **************  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.         http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489  _______________________________________________  http://www.team.net/donate.html    Fot mailing list  Fot at autox.team.net  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot  


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan  6 10:58:53 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001401c8508d$ccd74550$d214c548@RW>

The Crosley Supersports had spot disc brakes in about 1952. I had one and 
traded it in on my first MG.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <spreiss at verizon.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


> In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
> spreiss at verizon.net writes:
>
>
>> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car 
>> in
>> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can 
>> anyone
>> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so 
>> "un-Standard"
>> for
>> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern 
>> automotive
>> design at the time.
>>
>>
>
> Steve...
>
> I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other 
> production
> based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' 
> cars.
> I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
> 'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I 
> remember early
> ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket 
> seats,
> AND disc brakes.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:21:14 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:21:14 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>

I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.

My understanding of the cam / lifter geometry is that if the lobe is 
designed to never run off the edge of the lifter, then that's the 
condition that will always exist, whether or not we float the valves. 
Is this correct?I guess my question would be -- with the cam we're 
using, what is the diameter needed to avoid running off the edge -- 
which gets at how close to the edge of the lifter will the lifter 
contact the cam, under any circumstance?

I had my head work done several months ago and forgot to mention to 
you guys a problem that I had. It may not have anything at all to do 
with this discussion, or it may. All my valve stems were peened over 
a little bit on the ends. The machine shop expert's first opinion was 
that I had floated the valves a lot. When I told him that I kept the 
revs to levels that I wouldn't expect that (6000), we theorized that 
because of the diameter of the stud holes in the rocker stands, 
perhaps the centerline of the shaft had moved back far enough to let 
the rocker tips run off the edge of the stems.

That puzzled me too, because there was evidence of something fishy 
going on all the way across the ends of the stems. I purchased new valves.

Later when he was starting assembly he determined that the springs 
had lost some of their tension so we put new valve springs in. I 
don't know how old the springs were. Our conclusion ended up being 
that the weaker springs had allowed valve float.

I have them set the seat pressure between 90 and 100 on all these 
heads. That's really quite conservative compared with what the V8's run.

We also decided that the radius on the valve tips looked too shallow 
(too large a radius), so he refaced that tips to have a sharper 
radius to reduce the possibility of them running off the edge.

I'm also considering replacing my old rocker stands with new ones. 
The new ones are much nicer. I've had the old ones milled and shimmed 
numerous times over the years - they are ten years old.

I have a hard time thinking that any of this is related to camshaft 
design, since as I understand it, the acceleration and velocity we're 
using is not significantly higher than used on the stock camshaft -- 
do I understand this correctly?

Anyway, all this may or may not have some relation to what we're 
seeing in the valve train..

At 09:19 AM 1/6/2008, Larry Young wrote:
>I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter
>size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006
>in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of
>the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for
>chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get
>the maximum performance.
>
>Larry Young wrote:
> >> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam -
> >> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 11:47:03 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:47:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch

From jsnook at wcnet.org  Sun Jan  6 11:58:59 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: KEVIN LYNCH
  To: FOT
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
  Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Good morning group ..

  RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
  companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
  I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
  thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
  service provider.

  Kev Lynch
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 12:16:49 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
	<005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV107583B587C4DF7E0D9428B74E0@phx.gbl>

Jeff, who are they using?  Thanks for the reply.

Kev
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeff Snook<mailto:jsnook at wcnet.org>
  To: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ; FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

  Jeff Snook
  http://www.snooksdreamcars.com<http://www.snooksdreamcars.com/>
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com>
    To: FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
    Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
    Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


    Good morning group ..

    RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
    companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability
etc..
    I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
    thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with
their
    service provider.

    Kev Lynch
    _______________________________________________
    http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

    Fot mailing list
    Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/fot>

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:48:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] message on cams, etc
Message-ID: <200801061917.m06JGxdI301509@ns3.geneseo.net>

If you received a message from me about lifters and cam stuff, and 
the message was totally incomprehensible, it's because of a side 
discussion I was having with Larry and I accidentally sent it to the 
whole list. Sorry.

At least that's my story and I'm stickin to it.

uncle jack 

From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 12:40:07 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:40:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA79D@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

My company is getting ready to release an on line self-serve registration
system, something we've done for our clients for many years. It will be very
inexpensive and very high quality. I know that sounds odd, but you are not the
target, we're aiming at companies that usually do this for themselves, but who
would use an external tool if it had superior architecture, function,
reporting, hosting and was very easy to use. Not sure when it's going to be
available (I'm not involved in the day-to-day biz anymore) but I'll let you
know as soon as I do--should be pretty soon, if the clients would just stop
demanding so much of the company's time. Oh, wait, that would be bad.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 10:47 AM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  6 12:45:40 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <426553.20017.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Midwestern Council has been using MyAutoEvents.com for all our W-W races, autocrosses and HPDEs the past few years. MAE was put together by an SCCA racer maybe 6 or 8 years ago so it's pretty polished and stable. It keeps a database so once you enter your info you can enter any subsequent events with a few clicks. The registrars get information they can actually read compared to illegible faxes and mail-ins. We kept our entry form template as close as possible to SCCA's so crossover guests can easily enter too. You get a few variable fields you can use for your own purposes. Because each race is a different club and registrar I was a bit concerned going in about the modest level of computer literacy required. But it was a non-issue, everyone just picked it up and ran with it.

MAE has provision for reserving car numbers but we don't use that due to the complications of several classes running in the same race group.

Last year they started charging $35 per event for the service if you don't run the payments through them, which in a $30K-60K weekend is infinitesimal. (MC doesn't require prepayment so nearly everyone pays at the track.)

Do remember there are a lot of people without broadband, extensive PC savvy, or without a PC at all. There will still be a need for paper entry forms and mail-ins, but at a guess we get about 2/3 on line these days.

I wrote an MAE user's brief for the MC registrars and participants, available at http://www.mcscc.org/files.htm. Click on "MyAutoEvents Support Files."

Regards,
Gary Schneider
Madison WI


----- Original Message ----
From: KEVIN LYNCH <klynch_6 at msn.com>
To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:47:03 PM
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From KENMUN at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 13:17:02 2008
From: KENMUN at aol.com (KENMUN at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:17:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] tr3/4 competition cam
Message-ID: <bb8.1c0d8b87.34b2913e@aol.com>

fot, anyone have a good used tr "f" or isky 777 cam they would like to sell? 
thanks, ken m. tr3 vintage racer



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  6 14:42:36 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:42:36 -0000
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <083201c850ad$0e26d790$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Steve,
As others have commented, the TR wasn't the first car ever to have front disc brakes, though it was 
certainly the first British sports car in the more budget price sector to have them. In that regard, 
it was a bit of one-upmanship against the likes of Austin Healey, MG and Sunbeam Talbot.

I'm surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the extensive records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with drum brakes on the European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? Although it wasn't a 
TR, my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes (through fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't being driven nearly as fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was a good alternative to an effective laxative!

Don't construe this response to indicate that drum brakes per se are ineffective. Rolls Royce and 
Bentley used excellent four shoe front drum brakes for years and I think up to the end of the 
1960's. An uncle had a RR Phantom which I drove on occasions. I recall that stopping about three 
tons of the best English drawing-room from around 80mph in a somewhat urgent situation was both 
impressive and very effective.

Cheers, Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: [Fot] automotive design


>I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
>
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 01:22:53 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:22:53 +1100
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
Message-ID: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much better.

S. Preiss

From Herald948 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 17:42:31 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:42:31 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <d20.1dc7b042.34b2cf77@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:42:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
standardtriumph at btinternet.com writes:

I'm  surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the 
extensive  records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with  drum brakes on the 
European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to  serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? 
Although it wasn't a 
TR,  my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes 
(through  fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't  being driven nearly as 
fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was  a good alternative to an effective laxative!


==AM==
Wonderfully phrased as always, John! :-)
 
I don't have any of my Triumph books handy at the moment, but I do recall  
accounts of various disc brake setups (Dunlop and Lockheed, as well as Girling)  
being tried out on the Le Mans cars, circa 1955.
 
And yes, Triumph definitely was NOT the first to use disc brakes; to be  
painfully correct, I think TR3s were the first volume, series-production  British 
car to use them, and possibly the first volume, series-production car in  the 
world to introduce and stay with front disc brakes. (I recall reading  
somewhere that there were experimental front brakes on some Chrysler Imperials  or 
some such car around 1951, but that very, very few cars were so  equipped, 
possibly due to problems with the brakes.)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 18:54:43 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:54:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <47818663.4090406@pobox.com>

> Yeah, I know, you don't have to tell me.  I've tried teaching several 
> times during my life and failed miserably every time.
>
> Actually,  if you think of the cam as a lever attached to a shaft 
> (draw yourself a picture), the longer the lever or further out the 
> contact point, the faster the lifter will rise for each degree of 
> rotation.  The only difference between this and a real cam is that the 
> length of the lever is continuously changing as the cam rotates.
>
> With regard to the rest of your comments/suggestions - I don't know.  
> There are so many variables and so many ways we can go wrong in this 
> stuff.  That's why we love it, isn't it?
> Wouldn't it me fun to put one of our valve trains on a Spintron 
> machine - http://www.spintron.com/?  Does anyone have access to one of 
> these?
Jack W. Drews wrote:
>> I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
>> must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.

From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 20:46:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:46:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
References: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A0@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I've raced at events with Tivvy several times, very nice guy and an excellent
driver. Actually I think the only time I was actually on track with him was
the event prior to the Pittsburg VGP--ReaverRun. I Started from the back in
the big bore group (had to switch classes because of an event conflict) and
managed to pass my way up to about 4th or 5th as I recall. Tivvy was one of
the cars I passed. I know he was kind of shocked, but Peyote always does
that--it's a lot better car than it looks to be.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 12:22 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche
would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying
his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before
emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration
of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much
better.

S. Preiss
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From neil at revingtontr.com  Mon Jan  7 02:02:32 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:02:32 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A8D@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Allen
Its all the same as TR6 but slightly larger diameter.
Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Allen Washatko
Sent: 05 January 2008 19:05
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of a
TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au  Mon Jan  7 04:02:32 2008
From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:02:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cam Followers
Message-ID: <7A4C980A5E674BFFB1141797CEEFBB32@GEOFFPC>

 FOT
Anyone have experience with the mushroom type followers. This would seem to be
the answer to bigger follower without the need to bore the block

Geoff Byrne
TR6 racer down under

From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Mon Jan  7 09:19:15 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:19:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
Simon.

From vanlake at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan  7 12:52:58 2008
From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:52:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] LIFTER BORE TILT
Message-ID: <010720081952.22802.47828319000CB8740000591222216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net>

As discussed earlier, the Triumph (TR6) lifter bores are in fact tilted. with this known, how does a Cam builder compensate for this, or do they in fact? Is there an accepted error in our lifter to lobe angle from cylinder to cylinder? 

 Has anyone experimented with drilling or using a laser to punch a small hole in the face of the lifter to better lube the cam. Also, if  anyone is interested in purchasing the Ford GT (40) lifters, I have two sets for sale. Mark 

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 20:49:32 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:49:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
Message-ID: <004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillB at bnj.com  Mon Jan  7 13:03:38 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:03:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
	<004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A7@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Yes and no. I innovated my TR3 right out of vintage racing.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 7:49 PM
To: Simon Rasmussen
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Disc brakes.

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 15:08:36 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:08:36 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>

Many thanks for all the info Larry. Great stuff and obviously lots of  
work. I think it's beginning to sink into my [thick] head.
All the best to you and yours for the new year. Say hi to Tom for me.
Greg "Lunker " Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Larry Young wrote:

> I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and  
> lifter size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity  
> is 0.006 in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get  
> the radius of the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add  
> a safety factor for chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use  
> the entire lifter to get the maximum performance.
>
> Larry Young wrote:
>>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4  
>>> cam - http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.

From jerryvv at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan  7 20:30:50 2008
From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fw: [TR] Old racing photos
Message-ID: <005f01c851a6$ddbd70a0$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5>

I thought many of you would enjoy these photos too. They came from John Wise 
who is on the Triumph list only.

Jerry Van Vlack




> An old colleague of mine who actually photographed the old Northern
> California sports car races for R&T sent me this link to some pictures
> from 1953.  Just thought some of you might be interested!
>
> http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/GH000Homepage.html
>
> John A. Wise
> Glendale, AZ

From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Mon Jan  7 21:55:35 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:55:35 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
Message-ID: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
> Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0 at SIMON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.

The targa top, before Porsche.

Leon
   </HTML>

From herald948 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 08:03:56 2008
From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection 
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear 
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), 
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the 
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on 
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and 
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of 
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some 
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, 
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph 
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com

From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Tue Jan  8 08:16:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:16:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
	<8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BFD1730@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

Maybe it's because I drove my TR6 to work today in the rain, but I am
reminded of a couple of unintentional innovations such as randomnly
intermittant wipers and self bleeding clutch slave cylinders.


Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of herald948 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:04 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald),
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com _______________________________________________
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From tarch at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 08:44:03 2008
From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net><477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
	<477FC197.40005@pobox.com><4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001801c8520d$4c4434d0$7201a8c0@richardiipc>

Group,

As an outsider in this groovy thread of cams, curves, velocity and
acceleration of lifters and valves and such, I'm left with some chance
thoughts.

The first is to thank you for taking the time to explain to many of us the
kind of thinking that goes into this component of an engine. It reminds me,
a little, of taking calculus in college. Like many, I bumbled through. But
once out of school it all went immediately into the lost-art department. The
important left-overs in both this thread of cam design and the old calculus
courses is the knowledge that there is a wonderfully tight and bright system
of comprehension that someone much more dedicated than most of us engages
in. 

And just as importantly, you have patiently brought this knowledge well
within the engineering limits of those of us who have to adjust their valves
three times just to feel confident that they will neither rattle nor
silently not close at all. 

Consequently, other than the intellectual stimulation that many of us
enjoyed from all this conversation, I am left with two thoughts.

First, I would like to express my (Fot) appreciation to our brain trust for
the thought-provoking lessons.  And, secondly, since Uncle Jack adjusts his
valves on the tight side, so will I. That's all I need to know (thank you
Keats)and more than I got out of my calculus classes.

Thanks again,

Richard
TR-4 #196

From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 13:13:36 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:13:36 -0800
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>

Hello:

 

A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has been
investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local race fuel
supply dealer.  

 

 

https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm

 

 

Gary

 

PS - no financial interest, info only.

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Tue Jan  8 16:05:32 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the city
with the details.

Kevin

From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 16:28:05 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:28:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003901c8524e$1fb08d10$5f11a730$@racer@comcast.net>

Kevin:

Don't hold your breath.  There have been three parties involved in this
project since the idea was first broached with the City of SF in 2005.  An
individual, familiar with the beginnings of the Pittsburg GP, approached the
city with the idea and supposedly succeeded in gaining approval from the
Parks & Recreation Dept, but not the Board of Supervisors.  Once that
individual realized the enormity of the project, not to mention the
liability, he dropped out.  Another organization was asked to become
involved and presented a proper plan. For various reasons this situation was
terminated and the so called sponsors contacted the SCCA who declined, they
then turned to HMSA.  From what I understand, HMSA agreed to conduct (for a
fee) a feasibility study and that is the last I've heard.  I suspect the
logistics and liability are hurdles to large to overcome, not to mention
having to convince the board of supervisors, the environmentalists and other
civic groups in SF.  Nope, don't think it will ever happen.

Gary        

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:06 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the
city
with the details.

Kevin
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:13:30 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:13:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>

Gary,

You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

Allen

On Jan 8, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Gary Horstkorta wrote:

> Hello:
>
>
>
> A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has 
> been
> investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local 
> race fuel
> supply dealer.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> PS - no financial interest, info only.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:21:47 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:21:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
Message-ID: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>

Joe,

For a good overview, check out the article noted below as  
www.inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>
> Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal  
> group of
> Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,  
> but some
> is new to me at least.
>
> Jim Norlin
>
>
>
> Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is Shell
> Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make  
> sure that
> whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.   
> JEG"S has
> it at about $8.00 a pint.
>
> The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds on
> immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get  
> reduced.
>
> the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing  
> engines
> likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of  
> the new
> oil formulations.
>
> CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am  
> attaching
> it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> Here is a link:
> <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? 
> ListHistoryID=
> 1821071676>
>
> anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me  
> direct
> and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you  
> directly.
> It is very interesting.
>
> Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>
> Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward this  
> to
> that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by  
> their
> monitor.
>
> Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet  
> break in,
> even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for maximum  
> life
> in a racing engine.
>
> Larry Dent
> _______________________________________________
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 22:26:02 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:26:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <be5.21ebb343.34b5b4ea@aol.com>

News Flash...I was told months ago that GM has discontinued the manufacture 
of E.O.S.  If you have some or know where some is I suggest you hang on to it 
or buy it.
 
There have been many threads on the ZDDP issue on the 6-Pack, Healey list, MG 
list, etc.  As a rebuilder/restorer/racer I strongly recommend you look into 
the Amsoil or Redline brands as some of their products have NOT reduced the 
content of ZDDP.  They have altered some but have kept certain products 
specifically for flat tappet engines.  There is significant test data available on the 
Amsoil website.  Specifically you want to stay with the SL type 20w-50.  NOT 
the SM type.  If you want or need more info I'm happy to help.
 
Cheers,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From mdporter at dfn.com  Tue Jan  8 22:35:04 2008
From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:35:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47845D08.8040007@dfn.com>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> Gary,
>
> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
> against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
> lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
> The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
> this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
> so good. Got this from Tony Drew.
>
>   

Umm, "cramshaft."  These are available from J.C. Whitney in high-lift, 
long-duration models, yes?  :)


Cheers.

-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  9 07:32:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:32:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200801091432.m09EWbxM401536@ns3.geneseo.net>

My local Chevy dealer told me last week that General Motors' EOS is 
now  a discontinued product. I bought the last two bottles he had. He 
also told me the inventory at all the Chevy dealers in the area and 
I'm going to buy some more. Thanks to the folks who have identified 
other magic elixirs on the market.

.At 11:13 PM 1/8/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Gary,
>
>You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership
>for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection
>against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft
>lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
>The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of
>this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far,
>so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

uncle jack 

From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 08:37:44 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:37:44 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
Message-ID: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>

Greetings from Finland,

I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google 
Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last 
year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350 
and other big ones... If it's wet enough...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783

Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall 
in the end.

Regards
Jari
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/

From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan  9 08:57:59 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:57:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?

At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>Greetings from Finland,
>
>I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>
>Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>in the end.
>
>Regards
>Jari
>http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From GRMTim at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:48:59 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:48:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
	magazine
Message-ID: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>

Guys,

With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it into 
our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you know 
of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or 
website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, please let my 
guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy and 
paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to running 
the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 GT6, 
and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

For release: Immediately
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup

The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race fans, 
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at 
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by Kas 
Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph racer 
who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas 
Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the 
marque.
Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including the 
famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, TS01, a 
1952 Triumph TR2.
Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event, 
which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western Pennsylvania 
Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph 
enthusiasts.
As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the downtown 
merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers are 
allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has 
also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will 
want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim Baxter 
at xxx.
###






**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:57:00 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:57:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <c95.2242f0f7.34b656dc@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:49:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
GRMTim at aol.com writes:

The  Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
fans,  
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at  
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this  September 4-7 2008.



Attention everyone concerned.
 
This event is no longer sponsored by ZIPPO so it is not the Zippo Grand  Prix 
anymore.
 
It should be referred to as: SVRA ~ U.S. Vintage  Grand Prix
 
When and if a major sponsor is signed, we will let everyone know.
 
Thanks, Jack Woehrle ~ SVRA



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 10:06:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:06:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <d45.1ca0d125.34b658fd@cs.com>

We have a couple more corrections pending, regarding the press release, but 
they should be cleared out by the end of the day.

Joe A   </HTML>

From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 10:32:26 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:32:26 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
	<20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>

No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound 
is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb. 
Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn 
there...

David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>
> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>   
>> Greetings from Finland,
>>
>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>
>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>> in the end.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jari
>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Jan  9 10:41:25 2008
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <200801091741.m09HfPWR016129@moose.dimebank.com>

> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz.

Not last time I checked - they've stopped selling it.

Not even mail order.

From d.hesse at charter.net  Wed Jan  9 11:39:53 2008
From: d.hesse at charter.net (d.hesse at charter.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:39:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] VARA at Buttonwillow May 3-4
Message-ID: <20080109133953.U5E5V.776687.root@fepweb04>

I was wondering who from the group will be racing at Buttonwillow on May 3-4? My wife and I are coming out to stay in Newport Beach and are thinking of taking the 3hr drive north to catch a day of the races. Any other car related events happening in the LA area that weekend that anyone would recommend?
Thanks.
Dave Hesse
Portage WI

From triosan at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 12:05:04 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:05:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top screws and bolts
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801091105l1e917fb2j3001b1ccc53f92ed@mail.gmail.com>

I removed the top 3 garges ago.  Now no longer have the 6 screws that bolt
the frame to the body or the 6[?] bolts that attach the frame piece to the
rear deck.

I would like to get the required parts locally, so I need to know the sizes
of these two items.  The screws are fit into the counter sunk holes on the
frame.  I would guess they are 1/4-28 by 1/2 or 3/4 [though they could be
5/16 24].  The bolts are probably 1/4 or 5/15 and also about 1/2 or 3/4.

Would really appreciate it if anybody knows [I did not yet check in my
Repair Manual].

-- 
Chuck Arnold

From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Wed Jan  9 14:17:42 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:17:42 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <380-22008139211742277@M2W035.mail2web.com>

Hey everyone,

I just came across an auction company having a large collector-car live
auction on eBay.  It includes several Bugeyes, 1920's and 30's Fords, a
couple Minis (one Moke!), some MGs (incl. MGAs and a TD), and micro-cars
(Isettas, NSU, Honda, etc.), among others.  It also includes two Judson
Superchargers in boxes, some Hit and Miss motors, and a Honda Dream
motorcycle.

These cars are not for the faint of heart.  They are barn finds and look
it.  I think there were just a few out of all of them that may be driveable
(maybe an MG TD, a '76 Mercedes, a Ford Taurus...).  But if you would like
a decent collector-car project, you may find it here.  Apparently the
auction is in PA (at least the auction company is).

Here is the link to their auctions on eBay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalderferauction

Just FYI, since I know some of you out there are as insane as we are!

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web

From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 14:24:52 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:24:52 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cfa.2686b2a3.34b695a4@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 3:18:15 PM Central Standard Time, 
spitfiresuz at 141.com writes:


> It also includes two Judson
> Superchargers in boxes,

My experience suggests if you are a successful bidder on one of the Judson 
Supercharges, and your engine is 'prepped' in any way, you paint the Judson gold 
and display it on a shelf, rather than put it on the car.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From rocky at spitfire4.com  Wed Jan  9 15:02:36 2008
From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:02:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>

Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.

Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but apparently 
that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice drive in the wet.

--Rocky Entriken
#4 Spitfire (also 1147)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys


> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
> there...
>
> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>
>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>
>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>>> in the end.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jari
>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 16:56:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:56:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
From: BillDentin at aol.com
Full-name: BillDentin
Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
To: kaskas at cox.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
writes:

I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
a bush.

My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
better on the MGA than the TRs.
 
Bill Dentinger
 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 17:18:36 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:18:36 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!

~Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
>To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
>Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Full-name: BillDentin
>Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
>Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>To: kaskas at cox.net
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
>
>In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
>writes:
>
>I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
>at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
>on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
>remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
>a bush.
>
>My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
>1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
>Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
>limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
>instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
>better on the MGA than the TRs.
> 
>Bill Dentinger
> 
>
>
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From stutzmans at comcast.net  Wed Jan  9 17:28:44 2008
From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:28:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic
 Motorsportsmagazine
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c8531f$c1f85c70$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31>

TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
Bruce
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
Motorsportsmagazine


> Guys,
>
> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
> into
> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
> know
> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
> please let my
> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
> and
> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
> running
> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
> GT6,
> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>
> Tim Suddard
> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
> www.classicmotorsports.net
> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
> For release: Immediately
> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>
> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
> fans,
> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
> Kas
> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
> racer
> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
> marque.
> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
> the
> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
> TS01, a
> 1952 Triumph TR2.
> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
> Pennsylvania
> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
> enthusiasts.
> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
> downtown
> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
> are
> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
> but lives
> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
> For
> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
> Baxter
> at xxx.
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Wed Jan  9 18:05:30 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:05:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
References: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF5F88@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC

You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 18:10:38 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:10:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <c0a.27f32938.34b6ca8e@aol.com>

I rest my case.
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 19:08:29 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from
 ClassicMotorsportsmagazine
Message-ID: <7BCE119A.7DC3B7B3.00159EE9@cs.com>

good point Bruce.  this should be mentioned in appreciation of TRFs efforts.  thanks 

>TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
>Bruce
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
>To: <fot at autox.team.net>
>Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
>Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
>Motorsportsmagazine
>
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
>> into
>> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
>> know
>> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
>> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
>> please let my
>> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
>> and
>> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
>> running
>> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
>> GT6,
>> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> For release: Immediately
>> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>>
>> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
>> fans,
>> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
>> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
>> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
>> Kas
>> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
>> racer
>> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
>> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
>> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
>> marque.
>> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
>> the
>> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
>> TS01, a
>> 1952 Triumph TR2.
>> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
>> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
>> Pennsylvania
>> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
>> enthusiasts.
>> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
>> downtown
>> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
>> are
>> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
>> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
>> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
>> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
>> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
>> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
>> but lives
>> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
>> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
>> For
>> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
>> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
>> Baxter
>> at xxx.
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Jan  9 19:58:02 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
In-Reply-To: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478589BA.7030705@bradakis.com>

>The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group
>  
>
You misspelled 'international'

mjb.

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Thu Jan 10 01:42:30 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:42:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200801100843.m0A8h4Uu362457@ns3.geneseo.net>

Thereis a name for this class of cars. It is "Rare and Undesirable".

At 06:18 PM 1/9/2008, steve wrote:
>Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!
>
>~Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
> >To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
> >Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Full-name: BillDentin
> >Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
> >Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
> >Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >To: kaskas at cox.net
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
> >
> >In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, 
> kaskas at cox.net
> >writes:
> >
> >I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales
> >at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests
> >on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then
> >remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant 
> flowers or even
> >a bush.
> >
> >My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in 
> the early
> >1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in
> >Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better 
> have a rev
> >limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, 
> but came with
> >instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told 
> me they worked
> >better on the MGA than the TRs.
> >
> >Bill Dentinger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >_______________________________________________
> >http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> >Fot mailing list
> >Fot at autox.team.net
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan 10 07:31:24 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:31:24 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <be5.22174695.34b7863c@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 7:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
RYoung at navcomtech.com writes:


> You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?
> 

Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either.  It saved me a lot of 
embarrassment.  I'm not that good at autocrossing.  And I got the event's 
'hard luck' trophy.  

I wish I'd have gotten a buck for each picture taken of my engine bay at that 
event.  Lots of people there had never seen a Judson supercharger.

Bill (Damdinger)


Bill
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 05:42:16 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:42:16 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>

Jack,

Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:      
www.Inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen
On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
>
> At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
>> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
>> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
>> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
>> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
>> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>> >
>> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
>> > group of
>> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
>> > but some
>> > is new to me at least.
>> >
>> > Jim Norlin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is 
>> Shell
>> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
>> > sure that
>> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
>> > JEG"S has
>> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
>> >
>> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds 
>> on
>> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
>> > reduced.
>> >
>> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
>> > engines
>> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
>> > the new
>> > oil formulations.
>> >
>> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
>> > attaching
>> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
>> > Here is a link:
>> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? > 
>> ListHistoryID=
>> > 1821071676>
>> >
>> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
>> > direct
>> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
>> > directly.
>> > It is very interesting.
>> >
>> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
>> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>> >
>> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward 
>> this
>> > to
>> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
>> > their
>> > monitor.
>> >
>> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
>> > break in,
>> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for 
>> maximum
>> > life
>> > in a racing engine.
>> >
>> > Larry Dent
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Fot mailing list
>> > Fot at autox.team.net
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> >
>> >
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> uncle jack
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 10 06:31:23 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:31:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 front suspension pieces
Message-ID: <399064.15381.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Does anyone on the list have spare GT6 vertical links w/stub axles, hubs, and calipers that they are willing to sell. I have a Spitfire in the shop that is coming to life as a racer which needs these pieces. I also need the GT6 rear brake backing plates as I sold/gave away all I had when we were making the Summers Bro's axles.
  Any help finding these bits is appreciated 
  Thanks - Ed

From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Thu Jan 10 13:14:33 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:14:33 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
	<001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
Message-ID: <47867CA9.1000203@pp.inet.fi>

Yes, the mechanical tacho is not in operation. I have an electrical one 
on the steering column. The old one would go round anyway, as I use to 
change at 8000rpm and have the absolute mental limit at 8500.

Yes, on the last lap I made a a bit longer trip... I braked a bit too 
late and didn't want to risk anything, so I used the safety road. Most 
embarrassing would have been be stucking on the gravel trap between the 
track and safety road.

Regards
Jari

Rocky Entriken kirjoitti:
> Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.
>
> Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but 
> apparently that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice 
> drive in the wet.
>
> --Rocky Entriken
> #4 Spitfire (also 1147)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
> To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
>
>
>> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
>> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
>> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
>> there...
>>
>> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>>
>>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>>
>>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>>
>>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th 
>>>> overall
>>>> in the end.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Jari
>>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From emanteno at comcast.net  Thu Jan 10 14:03:07 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:03:07 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <011020082103.25315.4786880B000BD156000062E32200734364970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: BillDentin at aol.com 

> Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either. It saved me a lot of 
> embarrassment. I'm not that good at autocrossing. And I got the event's 
> 'hard luck' trophy. 

Yeah, as I recall, he was puttering around in the lot to let the engine warm up and then it just broke. I also remember that Bill labelled one of his other vehicles as a "TR_" whatever for the rest of the Convention.

Irv Korey

From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Thu Jan 10 14:37:47 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:37:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire vs. big boys.
Message-ID: <02b501c853d1$0b303c80$3464a8c0@SIMON>

I seem to remember someone embarassing himself by getting stuck in a gravel
trap recently....at a rather crucial point of a rather important race.....chap
with a name like Hamilton or something similar?
Simon.

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 17:16:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] EOS is Back
Message-ID: <7b246ee4cb318a0f78467358766ff347@wi.rr.com>

Good news! EOS is back. The story I was given is that the supplier for 
GM ceased production for whatever reason. A new supplier surfaced and 
the product is now back on the shelf. However, the price has doubled to 
$20 a bottle (16 oz.). I just bought a bottle today.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 05:17:13 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:17:13 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steering
Message-ID: <000d01c85382$bc0335c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956) TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net

From malaboge at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 00:15:30 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:15:30 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Steering
Message-ID: <8CA2238E1DDC1B4-9F8-3753@webmail-de10.sysops.aol.com>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956)
TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to
be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with
the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a
previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a
swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a
combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net
Steve-
Never mind the lock to lock criteria...Note the angles formed by the idler arm
and the steering drop arm (the one from the steering box), they should be the
same when the steering is straight ahead. B I can't recall if the arms are
actually pointed straight forward, or at an angle. BUT they should be parallel
or have the same angle off of straight ahead (although they will be degrees
left and right). B Does this make sense? B In Ascii this should look like /__\
B or |__|. B Set your steering up so that the arms are as above and use that
as the starting point. B Even up the toe while the arms are even and then deal
with the steering wheel. B The tie rods should be equal at this point. B You
may indeed have the steering drop arm on the box incorrectly, but that needs
to be checked with all the linkage disconnected from the drop arm, then you
can check the lock to lock issue.

2.5 degrees of negative camber is too much for most bias ply tires, they
usually don't work well with more than about 1 to 1.5 degrees negative camber.
B Which bushing style are you using, TR3? B If so, the metal bushings are
designed to be reamed to fit.

Off at an angle myself...
B B B B B B B B B B Nick in Nor Cal


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

From tony at tonydrews.com  Fri Jan 11 07:25:46 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:25:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080111142352.8F0311879BA@autox.team.net>

Try this link - it's actually an L .
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

- Tony

At 06:42 AM 1/10/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Jack,
>
>Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:
>www.Inengineering.com/oil.html
>
>Allen
>On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
> > I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
> >
> > At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
> >> Joe,
> >>
> >> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
> >> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
> >>
> >> Allen
> >>
> >>
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> >> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> >> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> >> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> >> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
> >> >
> >> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
> >> > group of
> >> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
> >> > but some
> >> > is new to me at least.
> >> >
> >> > Jim Norlin
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is
> >> Shell
> >> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
> >> > sure that
> >> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
> >> > JEG"S has
> >> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
> >> >
> >> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds
> >> on
> >> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
> >> > reduced.
> >> >
> >> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
> >> > engines
> >> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
> >> > the new
> >> > oil formulations.
> >> >
> >> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
> >> > attaching
> >> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> >> > Here is a link:
> >> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? >
> >> ListHistoryID=
> >> > 1821071676>
> >> >
> >> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
> >> > direct
> >> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
> >> > directly.
> >> > It is very interesting.
> >> >
> >> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> >> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
> >> >
> >> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward
> >> this
> >> > to
> >> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
> >> > their
> >> > monitor.
> >> >
> >> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
> >> > break in,
> >> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for
> >> maximum
> >> > life
> >> > in a racing engine.

From DSPGTi at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 09:40:18 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:40:18 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>

There is a chance that a few of us might be attending the auction live. If  
there is anyone wanting a first hand description, let me know. I'll see if we  
can coordinate something.
 
Dave Y



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 12:22:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: feedback at ashland.com
> Date: January 11, 2008 9:55:46 AM CST
> To: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> Absolutely, the online product information sheets found at
> Valvoline.com, are currently the latest sheets available and the
> latest numbers for ZDDP.  The Valvoline VR1 is still the best oil.
>
>
>
> To:        VWEBMAIL at Ashland
> cc:        
>
> Subject:        Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> The following person submitted a question or comment via the Contact
> us form of type Ask Racing
>  First Name:  Allen
>  Last Name:  Washatko
>  Address1:  N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>  Address2:
>  City:  Cedarburg
>  State:  WI
>  Zip Code:  53012
>  Phone:  2623756888
>
> Email Address:  awashatko at wi.rr.com
>
> Comments:
>
> Are your oil product spec sheets current regarding the percentage of
> ZDDP?
>  I race a 1971 Triumph TR6 with flat tappets and it is critical to
> have the correct oil to protect my engine. I have been using Valvoline
> VR-1 and would like to confirm that the oil still has the proper ZDDP
> content.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
>  Timely maintenance of your vehicle is the best way to avoid costly
> repairs down the road and to keep your car running longer. Valvoline
> has introduced 'Vehicle Manager' to help you maintain and track your
> car maintenance.
>
>  Vehicle Manager:
>  -  - Provides car manufacturer (OEM) specifications and maintenance
> schedule
>  -  - Helps you manage and track services for multiple vehicles
>  -  - Keeps information readily available in a single, private
> environment
>  -  - Provides email reminders for services due
>
>  Visit www.vehiclemanager.com and take a test drive or register for
> this FREE service.
>
>  This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
> privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable
> law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying
> of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone
> at 1-800-TEAM-VAL. Thank you.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This electronic mail may contain information that is privileged,
> proprietary and confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. This transmission is intended solely for the
> individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, you should understand that any distribution, copying, or
> use of the information contained in this transmission by anyone other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately
> notify the sender and destroy all copies which you may have of this
> communication.
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 13:41:21 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:41:21 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>

Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
 
eBay item # 150204793158
 
Worth checking out! :-)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan 11 14:31:48 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <02a201c85499$5fc42a40$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Interesting car.  I spoke to a fellow last year that was going to chop up
one to make into a drag car and he said the wheel base was too short for
drag car spec.  I guess it needs to be a certain length.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Herald948 at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?


> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph
Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 15:01:26 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:01:26 EST
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
Message-ID: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the dash I 
am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various  switches, 
cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old one but it is in 
very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
 
Thanks,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 17:07:01 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:07:01 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brad Penn Oil Response
Message-ID: <e2c8348d8fb1df4bdee7855759704668@wi.rr.com>

Response to my request for specs on the oil.

Allen


Dear Allen,
Thank you for your inquiry about Penn Grade 1 racing oil. It seems that
the buzz of the industry today is the amount of ZDDP. Our racing oil,
The Green Oil, is being heavily requested by all racing segments
including historic, vintage and restoration/muscle cars; especially
engines using flat tappet cams.  We have been contacted by numerous
Triumph and Porsche Clubs concerning issues with some of todays motor
oils. With our racing oils, we did not reduce the level of ZDDP (zinc
anti-wear additive); in addition, we obtain a unique cut from our tower
that causes our racing oil to tenaciously cling to engine parts,
especially to flat tappet and roller cams minimizing wear in the
engine. Its just not the zinc but the proper additive balance that
separates our oil from the rest. With Cam manufactures such as ISKY,
CRANE, HOWARDS, CAM MOTION to name a few that our recommending our oil
we meet the test.  I have also copied by this e mail a BRAD PENN
distributor who can assist you with you lubricant needs. I have
attached a recent article that will give you some additional insight.
Thank you
 
Stone Lake  Oil
Keane Laakson
715-865-3443
 
Sincerely
Nick Dixon
 
BRAD PENN Lubricants
American Refining Group Inc.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils
The Green Oil.

 The term 100% Pure Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil has long carried
with it an industry connotation for being one of the best sources of
high quality lubricant base stocks in the world.  Our BRAD PENN.
refinery, the oldest continuously operating lube oil refinery in the
United States, still refines 100% Pennsylvania grade crude oil.  PA
grade crude oil is a very thermally stable paraffinic crude oil which
contains no asphaltic constituents.  This makes it an ideal choice from
which to refine premium quality base oils.  Because we use only one
crude stock, our refined products are of consistently high quality and
performance. 

BRAD PENN. brand products are truly MADE IN THE U.S.A.  American
Refining Groups Bradford, PA refinery is the home of The Green Oil.
that racers, engine builders and enthusiasts alike have all come to
know and love!  The unique green color and outstanding performance of
our Penn Grade 1 Racing oils set them apart from the competition.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils are formulated using a unique base
oil cut from our tower, which gives our PG 1 racing oils exceptional
film strength and unsurpassed metal wetting abilities.  This unique
base oil causes our PG 1 racing oil to cling tenaciously to engine
parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods
of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during
competition.  This same oil cling helps prevent dry-start
conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle
for extended periods.
BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils also contain highly effective
detergent and dispersant additives to guarantee exceptional engine
cleanliness as well as oxidation and foam inhibitors that offer
protection against thermal degradation and air entrainment.

In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of
zinc (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding
anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either flat
tappet or roller cams.  BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils have been
evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with
tremendous success. Many are now recommending our PG 1 racing oils to
provide outstanding protection for their flat tappet or roller cams.

The American Refining Group, Inc. offers a comprehensive line of BRAD
PENN. lubricants such as gear oil, grease and other items to meet the
majority of racing needs.  We also offer a complete line of lubricants
for todays passenger car, fleet, commercial and industrial
applications.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils:

Penn Grade 1. Break-In Oil
SAE 30 mono-grade oil formulated specifically to meet the critical
lubrication needs of new engines during break-in while allowing proper
seating of rings and component run-in.  Enhanced levels of zinc
(zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) and superior oil film
strength from Penn Grade base oils offer complete anti-wear,
anti-scuffing protection for even the most demanding of applications
such as those presented by break-in of engines with flat tappet cams.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 0W-30
A high-performance, lighter viscosity racing oil specifically designed
to maximize horsepower while protecting critical engine parts.  Penn
Grade base oils provide superior film strength while synthetic stocks
enhance performance throughout a wide range of operating temperatures
and conditions


Page 2



Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 10W-30
A truly versatile racing oil suitable for engines used both on the
street and/or the track.
The multi-viscosity grade and synthetic components facilitate cold
starting and quicker engine warm-up while insuring adequate engine
protection during competition.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 20W-50
Designed to offer higher performance racing engines the cold
temperature operational benefits of an SAE 20W engine oil while
providing the desired film strength; sealing abilities; bearing,
crankshaft, piston ring and valvetrain component anti-wear protection
of an SAE 50 weight oil at normal engine operating temperatures.

Penn Grade 1. SAE 50
Heavy viscosity, straight-grade motor oil designed to provide superior
lubrication to high-performance competition engines fueled by gasoline,
methanol or nitromethane.
Superior alcohol separation assures continual lubricant protection to
the engine.

Penn Grade 1. Nitro 70
High viscosity, high-performance motor oil engineered for use in
nitromethane or methanol fueled competition engines.  The heavy
viscosity and exceptional film strength provided by the Penn Grade
base oils helps protect against cylinder wash down and oil thinning
from fuel dilution typically encountered in these applications.

Penn Grade 1. Full Synthetic Hypoid Gear/Blower Racing Lubricant
A specially formulated 100% synthetic SAE 75W-90 oil designed for use
with self-contained systems where a SAE 75W, SAE 80W-90 or SAE 90 gear
oil is recommended.  Suitable for use in Roots and Lysholm screw-type
superchargers. May also be used in manual transmissions and hypoid
differentials.







 
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 21:56:47 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:56:47 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
Message-ID: <d6a.18595bfb.34b6ff8f@aol.com>

Thought this might be of interest given the recent discussion on oil.   
Enjoy!!  Gary



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:28:51 -0600
Subject: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
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Received some interesting information today.  Marc Haibeck of Addison, Ill. is
one of 4 technicians that work on the 1990-1995 ZR-1 Corvette engines and is
the only person in the world that works on them full time.  These are 32 valve
flat tappet engines.  Only a little over 5,000 of them were made.  Haibeck
became interested in AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil
(AMO) when he learned it is specifically designed to meet the needs of car
engines with flat tappets, such as those in the ZR-1.  He said " API
specifications do not meet the requirements of the ZR-1 engines.  The removal
of the EP additives makes the oil incompatible with the LT5 engines.  AMO
conforms to the SG specifications and I made a big discovery that as the oil
evolves it doesn't necessarily get better; it's simply changing."  He
recommends AMSOIL AMO for all flat tappet engines as "it is blended specially
to address this technical requirement.  AMSOIL solves the problem".  He
further stated, "Many of my customers were using Mobil 1 and I expected people
to resist the AMSOIL, but I have not had a single person question my
recommendation yet.
Guess the above sort of explains why I have mentioned the AMSOIL AMO as
something those of us with flat tappet engines ought to be considering.
API-SL rated oil is great for flat tappets but DO NOT use API-SM rated oils as
they do not have enough ZDDP.  I might also mention that Boyd Coddington has
now standardized all of his vehicles on AMSOIL products.

Bill
brinke at cebridge.net

From rjl6n at cstone.net  Fri Jan 11 15:42:03 2008
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:42:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
In-Reply-To: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3991.128.143.61.67.1200091323.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net>

> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)

Hmmmm, when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even funnier!

John

From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Jan 11 18:19:34 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
References: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478815A6.9090208@bradakis.com>

I assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little hamlet out in the country.

mjb.

From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:28:00 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <d21.1d5fbcfa.34b971a0@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:42:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rjl6n at cstone.net writes:

Hmmmm,  when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross  rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one  (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even  funnier!



==AM==
My first reaction was that the drag world apparently has long since run out  
of old Anglias, Thames Panel Vans and Fiat Topolinos, all of which used to 
make  great dragsters back in the '60s!  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:34:38 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:34:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mark at bradakis.com writes:

I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.


==AM==
Every "twelfth night" or so?
 
I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
 
I'll stop now.
 
--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From Billbab at mac.com  Fri Jan 11 23:10:07 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:10:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
References: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B59DE6A6-54C6-4944-BBBA-F5323F4D6DCF@mac.com>

Oh dear, someone let the punsters out.

On Jan 11, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Herald948 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark at bradakis.com writes:
>
> I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
> discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.
>
>
> ==AM==
> Every "twelfth night" or so?
>
> I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
>
> I'll stop now.
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,  
> Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and   
> Triumph Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660

From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Sat Jan 12 01:16:33 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:16:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:

> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
> From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156 at wi.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> FoT,
> 
> I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> 
> Allen

I am not in the least surprised by their response.

I suggest that you write back and tell them that since they are not prepared 
to grace your enquiry with an honest reply, you will have no alternative than 
to buy Amsoil, and advise all your racinng friends to do the same as they 
obviously have something to hide!

Leon

(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)

 
   </HTML>

From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sat Jan 12 07:01:39 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:01:39 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
In-Reply-To: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
References: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <200801121402.m0CE2EwH107282@ns3.geneseo.net>

About a year ago I went 'round and 'round with Castrol. Same deal. 
They gave me three answers in a row that said everything was 
"adequate" or "exceeds", yada yada. Then I got through to a personal 
friend who works for a distributor, we found their actual spec sheet, 
and sure enough, not enough ZDDP for us.

Since then he has sent me their news release about a special Syntec 
for racing -- but no news on where to get it.

At 02:16 AM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
>In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:
>
> > FoT,
> >
> > I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> > for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> >
> > Allen
>
>
>(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>uncle jack

From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 11:16:33 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>

Hello carb enthusiasts,  I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the
Renault Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project.  The stock Gordini Solex wont fit due
to the positioning of the head faring and the engine.  My best solution is to
fit a SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my own
construction.  The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because
it fits so nicely?  Important details:  The engine is an 850cc Renault that
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia.  the diameter of the stock carb throat
is 1.259",  the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125".  Am I making a big
mistake going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi downdraft?
Thanks in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of
this list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their
desparaging and denegrading remarks concerning
Renaults....................Cheers Henry Morrison, Cedar Crest,  New Mexico
Check out the Bunce Buck at
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars

From jerrypoole at arkansas.net  Sat Jan 12 11:27:33 2008
From: jerrypoole at arkansas.net (jerrypoole at arkansas.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:27:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
Message-ID: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>

Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items? 
Thanks, Jerry

From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan 12 11:43:57 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:43:57 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
In-Reply-To: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
References: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
Message-ID: <20080112184221.32190187A44@autox.team.net>

Here's Comp Cam's solid lifters page from their catalog:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html

- Tony

At 12:27 PM 1/12/2008, jerrypoole at arkansas.net wrote:
>Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
>0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items?
>Thanks, Jerry

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sat Jan 12 11:50:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:50:09 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Press Release by Classic Motorsports-Watkins Glen
	2008
Message-ID: <ca2.231a4fd0.34ba65e1@cs.com>

Well! Here is the first press release by our sponsor, Classic Motorsports.

A nice version with a picture of Joe Richards TR2 TS 1 LO can be found at:
ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup

(The FoT will be honoring Joe Richards and his family, along with his very 
historical TR2.  Likewise, the Village of Watkins Glen has found a place of 
honor in their weekend program)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
For release: Immediately 
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup Vintage Race

It's like a planetary alignment for Triumph fans, only way cooler, since you 
can actually see it: Hundreds of historic Triumphs from around the globe are 
converging on Watkins Glen September 3-7 for the Kastner Cup Vintage Race, 
presented by Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors. 

Among the luminaries will be the famed Group 44 factory race cars, the first 
production Triumph sports car, and - of course - Kas Kastner, the legendary 
Triumph tuner, racer and head of the North American Triumph Competition 
Department.

It's all part of the Sportscar Vintage Racing Association's U.S. Vintage 
Grand Prix, the Grand Prix the largest vintage race weekend in the east. Kastner 
will present the Kastner Cup to the racer who best embodies the spirit of the 
marque and the event for the award. He'll also be on hand to assist racers and 
talk to fans of the marque.

TS01, a 1953 TR2 that holds the distinction of being the first production 
Triumph sports car off the line, will also be there. Joe Richards, who 
painstakingly restored TSO1 to its historic original specs, will be honored by Friends 
of Triumph, the North America-based group of Triumph racers and race fans.

Triumph enthusiasts and racers will also be welcomed into the Friends of 
Triumph Hospitality Tent and into the town of Watkins Glen, where the local 
Chamber of Commerce organizes the yearly Grand Prix Festival on Friday. 

Triumph enthusiasts have an opportunity to enter in a Triumph-only road 
rally, and selected SVRA race cars will make a trip down from the track, park on 
display, and then take parade laps of the original 6.6 mile street circuit. 

For more information on this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing 
go to ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup or contact Tim Baxter at 
baxter at classicmotorsports.net.


Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site,  classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292. 
   </HTML>

From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 12:10:49 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:10:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little guys
will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I think
it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> Subject:
RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:54:57 -0700>
> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 1.25">
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> for
attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> engine.
I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> >
Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello carb
enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to the
positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> fit a
SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because>
it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the>
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> throat>
is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> mistake
going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> Thanks
in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> desparaging
and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers Henry
Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>

From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 12:16:23 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail 
happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
 http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.


> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little 
> guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I 
> think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> 
> Subject:
> RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 
> 11:54:57 -0700>
>> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 
>> 1.25">
> (HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> 
> for
> attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> 
> engine.
> I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> 
>  >
> Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
> fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
> dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
> fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello 
> carb
> enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
> Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to 
> the
> positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> 
> fit a
> SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
> construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job 
> because>
> it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
> doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, 
> the>
> stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> 
> throat>
> is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> 
> mistake
> going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> 
> Thanks
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> 
> desparaging
> and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers 
> Henry
> Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
> http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
> _______________________________________________>
> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 13:19:08 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W297BB335564DEC4A50508490440@phx.gbl>

Who knows how it's gonna drive, rest assured the first time out I'll go in
full battle dress..............Cheers Henry > From: S.Janzen at comcast.net> To:
dos_gusanos at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU
enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500> > The Bunce Buck is an
interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail > happy. The gallery is
fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars> ----- Original Message
----- > From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>> To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>;
<fot at autox.team.net>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM> Subject: Re:
[Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > > > Thanks for the offer, but as I look
at it, I think two of these little > > guys> > will fit. Based on the
performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I > > think> > it's the way to
go. Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side> > draft.........Henry> From:
spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> > > Subject:> > RE: [Fot] question
for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 > > 11:54:57 -0700>> >> I don't
know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a > >> 1.25">> >
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> > >
for> > attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit>
> > engine.> > I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI>
manifold.> > > >> > Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original
Message-----> From:> > fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>> >
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>> >
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:> >
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello > >
carb> > enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the>
Renault> > Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit>
due> to > > the> > positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best
solution is> to> > > fit a> > SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either)
on a manifold of my> own>> > construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8"
side draft do the job > > because>> > it fits so nicely? Important details:
The engine is an 850cc Renault that>> > doesn't like to go much over 4700
rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, > > the>> > stock manifold runners are
1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> > > throat>> > is 1.259", the
diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> > > mistake> > going
with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> > > Thanks>
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this>
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> > >
desparaging> > and denegrading remarks concerning>
Renaults....................Cheers > > Henry> > Morrison, Cedar Crest, New
Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>> >
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>> >
_______________________________________________>> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>> >
_______________________________________________> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > > >

From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:36:45 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BB6E9DA1-EF42-4F96-8209-05A1C2C8D499@earthlink.net>

I just happen to have what you need Henry - a pair of 1 1/8s I could  
bring them by your office next week if you like.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM

On Jan 12, 2008, at 12:10 PM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these  
> little guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two  
> carbs, I think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........

From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sat Jan 12 15:43:32 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <20080112.154332.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Henry,
That's a very cool project!
The SU sounds like an excellent place to start.
Bill 

From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:59:20 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:59:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Part needed - others available.
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
References: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <739D9999-01AB-43AF-994E-C64B6B363D34@earthlink.net>

Hi Gary,
I just went and looked at the plinth you need on a '65 I have. It's a  
bit unusual to me in that it is covered in leather [could be vinyl  
but doesn't look like it]. The covering is shrunk enough to look like  
it was factory done. I've never noticed one covered like this before.  
The underlying plastic looks to be good but one won't know until the  
covering comes off, not to mention the glue attaching it. Let me know  
if this might work for you.
The car it is attached to is destined to be a parts car unless some  
FoT needs a rusty/crusty [by New Mexico standards - needs rockers and  
some floor repair] racer candidate.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:01 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote:

> I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of   
> the dash I
> am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various   
> switches,
> cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old  
> one but it is in
> very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Fuqua
> Classic Sports Cars
> Branson, MO
> _gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From rjl at gt-classics.com  Sat Jan 12 16:50:01 2008
From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <E1JDq4m-0005QF-00@pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At 02:16 PM 1/12/2008, Scott Janzen wrote:
>The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail
>happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
>  http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars

Pretty cool, thanks.  I was definitely excited to see the Moretti.
I used to own a Moretti, but a different model than that one.  I'll
bet the Ken Gillanders can tell us some stories from his H-mod
days...


R. John Lye

rjl6n at cstone.net 

From Billbab at mac.com  Sat Jan 12 09:20:49 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:20:49 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cheap billet cranks a possibility
References: <1200145289.1631.21224.m45@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <5E0BAFE7-7768-4506-A803-9A4E1A068F16@mac.com>

This conversation is going on at the MGVR user group. I don't have the
time to coordinate chasing something like this down, but a $800 billet
crank that was GOOD would be a godsend. If the FOT hooked up with them
it would make the business more attractive for the chinese manufacturer.


Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660



Begin forwarded message:

> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Date: January 12, 2008 5:41:29 AM PST
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Digest Number 1854
> Reply-To: "No Reply"<notify-dg-MGVR at yahoogroups.com>
>
> MGVR
> Messages In This Digest (7 Messages)
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: wihiii at aol.com
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: Manley.L Ford
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: mga221
> View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:48 am (PST)
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl. and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although
> they look good. He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that
> they could duplicate. I'll ask for references here in the US. If you
> have any other suggestions please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot
> less that the SB crankshafts made in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but
> the quality and the unknown mfg. is the question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote: I do not know anything
> about this company in China, but I can tell you that, for China,
> $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot
> of world class work  and they also do a lot of junk. You have to
> know who you are dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:54 pm (PST)
>
> UK prices are crazy high. I do a lot of my racing in the UK and am
> familiar
> with UK vs USA prices. A BRM V8 crank in the UK is $10,000. The USA
> price
> for a crank every bit as good is about $3,000. Same for foundry work
> - UK
> prices three to four times USA prices. Just today we needed to have
> a 1959
> Cadillac crankshaft turned - here in the UK, the price was nearly
> $1,000.
> For $100, we will ship a good used crank from the USA instead.
>
> We ship things from the USA to the UK all the time to save money. The
> radiator on my wife's Grand Cherokee jeep recently split a seam. UK
> price
> for a new one was three times the USA price. We shipped one from the
> USA by
> air and still saved one third.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of paul
> flanery
> Sent: 11 January 2008 19:49
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl.
> and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although they
> look good.
> He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that they could
> duplicate.
> I'll ask for references here in the US. If you have any other
> suggestions
> please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot less that the SB
> crankshafts made
> in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but the quality and the unknown mfg.
> is the
> question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I do not know anything about this company in China, but I can tell
> you that,
> for China, $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business
> in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more
> realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you
> KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot of world
> class work
> - and they also do a lot of junk. You have to know who you are
> dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "wihiii at aol.com" wihiii at aol.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:00 pm (PST)
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:58 pm (PST)
>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "Manley.L Ford" Manley.L.Ford at trw.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:24 pm (PST)
>
> Dean's $1300 is a bit better price than my recent experience - must
> be you have a volume discount, Dean!
> -Manley
>
> >>> "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> 1/11/2008 5:04 PM >>>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:07 pm (PST)
>
> Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> Paul
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot
> recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think something
> like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "mga221" carndrew at aol.com   mga221
> Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:03 am (PST)
>
> --- In MGVR at yahoogroups.com, paul flanery <paullflanery at ...> wrote:
> >Whitey from Moldex made up a crankshaft for me two years ago. Cost
> was about $1,800. Balanced, nitrited, and counter weights knife edged.
> > Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> > Paul
> >
> > edeanbutler <edeanbutler at ...> wrote:
> > I should have said in my last email that we use
> Moldex almost exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable.
> I cannot recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think
> something like $1300.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of wihiii at ...
> > Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> > To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
> >
> >
> > I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG
> crankshafts.
> >
> > Bill Hollingsworth
> >
> > I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race
> engine.
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
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From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:11:51 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:11:51 +1000
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081149.NZCK16973.oaamta01sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

Don't be too hasty to condem Chinese products. Its like saying anything
British or US made is junk. We all know there are good and bad.
The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent. They use certified steels and make
the parts on the same CNC machines we use in 1st world nations. 
One of their top end crank manufacturers supplies are large number of
well-known US & Australian performance  firms.  I've looked at their cranks
and rods (which use ARP fastners exclusively), and visually, they are to the
best you would find. I know people here using this firms cranks in 1000hp
nitrous fed drag engines, so they cant be that bad. Being in the engine
trade, we soon work out what is good and what is not. 
Having said all that, if billet cranks are around US$1000, its worth
investigating. 
Terry O'Beirne

From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:18:25 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:18:25 +1000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
lives and modifications than I care to think about
I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving heaps
of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
this?? 
If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted to
hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily ditch
the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
Thanks a lot
Terry O'Beirne
Australia

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 08:01:27 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:01:27 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Billet Cranks
Message-ID: <39c86405da6c1fe57030e92cb37be5a3@wi.rr.com>

I wouldn't have the time either to take this to orders but I certainly 
would be a customer for a TR6 billet crank.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Sun Jan 13 14:23:51 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:23:51 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>

I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44

From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 15:26:13 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
References: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <001201c85633$4ed48310$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

On my GT6 that shaft sits pretty darn close to horizontal. The lower link 
that runs forward to the frame on my car has rod ends, giving me a way to 
adjust castor/toe, as does the inboard end of the lower wishbone (modified 
by being cut short, wtih a nut welded on to thread in a rod end).  Each end 
of the leaf spring has a spherical bearing in it, with tubular spacers to 
locate it on the bolt.  Spring pressure seems to keep the bearing firmly in 
place.
As to the "castor",  my guess is that with the lower locating link pulling 
on the front/bottom of the hub, you may get a little toe-in/positive camber 
action under hard braking or inside wheel lift or vice versa as a result of 
the castor, depending on the arc of all the parts.  Unfortunately with the 
leaf spring as the upper link it's really hard to move the suspension 
through its motions, though I have tried by jacking up the rear end and by 
jacking up one side or the other under the wishbone to mimic suspension 
travel.
Hope this helps - if there is a significant inclination I'd say something is 
off, though those wishbones don't look very bendable.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry and Cindy" <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query


> I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
> lives and modifications than I care to think about
> I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
> note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
> horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving 
> heaps
> of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
> another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
> this??
> If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted 
> to
> hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily 
> ditch
> the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
> Thanks a lot
> Terry O'Beirne
> Australia
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 13 15:37:21 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:37:21 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <20080113.153722.3916.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Very impressed with Castrol SuperClean. Used a predecessor of it 30 years
before it was released that was amazing stuff, as well. Keep it off your
skin. Do not breath a mist of it. Always amazed how well it worked on my
TR- 8 Alloys. Even when they didn't look all that dirty, a quick spray
and hosing off with cold water brightened them right up.
Never got to play with an ultrasonic cleaner. Pure water should be very
effective with that. Would use the purple stuff with caution in the US
unit.
Bill 

From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 17:00:59 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:00:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <000601c85640$8b9124e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, I use a product from McMaster-Carr, Cleveland, OH. 330 995-5500
www.mcmaster.com
It's Solvent-plus-lanolin formula, pn 3229K1 at about $45.00 for 5 gallons.
It doesn't tear up your hands or parts. It also comes in a High-flash- point
formula for a few extra bucks. It appears to be made by Graymills, who do a
lot with cleaning supplies. I use it in a small parts washer, not US. The
parts go directly in it.
M-C is a very good company to do business with. Their catalog is 3600 pages.
They ship quickly and reasonably. Lots of good products.
I  have no financial interest in them; just very satisfied with their
products and service.
Hope this helps,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  Vintage TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charly Mitchel" <charly at mitchelplumbing.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:23 PM
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with
an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone
been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you
can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with
it.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From srcypher at mac.com  Sun Jan 13 17:12:17 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer))
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:12:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
Message-ID: <57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>

> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover  
> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow  
> dry.
>
> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a  
> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>
> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear  
> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple  
> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>
> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the  
> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath  
> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer  
> to monitor temps
>
> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>
> Thanks
> -S
>
> Scott Cypher
> SCCA # 362573
> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially  
>> with an
>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>> cleaner?
>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different  
>> applications?
>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has  
>> anyone been
>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode  
>> the
>> aluminum?
>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or  
>> if you can
>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting  
>> with it.
>> Charly Mitchel
>> TR6 #44
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 13 17:33:07 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:33:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>

Terry and Cindy wrote:

> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.

Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
heading for a moon landing within the decade.

Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
to develop a sense of aesthetics.

Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
Chinese, US or otherwise.

Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008

From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 13 20:57:18 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <646804.54708.qm@web81712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bio-diesel is my new favorite parts cleaner.  It is a bit passive - if you can let it soak for a few hours you will be amazed.  I don't think that it is harmful to the user - may end up smelling like your local chinese restaurant though.
   
  Dennis DeLap
   
  

Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com> wrote:
  I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results. Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts? Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 21:43:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:43:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Rod Stretch
Message-ID: <13987d670ee723c60ddc7e1f9e95e69c@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Anyone have knowledge of how much stretch there is with a TR6 
rod/piston assembly at 7000 RPM and beyond? I'm down to my gasket 
thickness (.028) and need about .020 to get to my CR goal.

Allen

P.S.
I can just imagine what Bill Dentinger will have to say about the 
"Subject" title above!


Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan 13 21:50:10 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
	<57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <010b01c85668$f12d8960$d214c548@RW>

I used and still use lacquer thinner as a cleaning agent.  Have it in a 
squirt bottle. Cleans like crazy and dries quickly.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)" <srcypher at mac.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Cleaning parts


>> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover
>> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow
>> dry.
>>
>> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a
>> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>>
>> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear
>> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple
>> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>>
>> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the
>> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath
>> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer
>> to monitor temps
>>
>> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>>
>> Thanks
>> -S
>>
>> Scott Cypher
>> SCCA # 362573
>> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
>> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially
>>> with an
>>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>>> cleaner?
>>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different
>>> applications?
>>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has
>>> anyone been
>>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode
>>> the
>>> aluminum?
>>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or
>>> if you can
>>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting
>>> with it.
>>> Charly Mitchel
>>> TR6 #44
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 23:38:12 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>

Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]

From wensley_Tr at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 06:58:47 2008
From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
References: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00c301c856b5$962251c0$0200a8c0@Desktop>

Did you say you drove the Tr


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] cheap billet cranks


> Terry and Cindy wrote:
> 
>> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.
> 
> Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
> not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
> heading for a moon landing within the decade.
> 
> Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
> to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
> best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
> to develop a sense of aesthetics.
> 
> Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
> for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
> their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
> Chinese, US or otherwise.
> 
> Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 07:34:08 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:34:08 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <c26.27c09ed9.34bccce0@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/13/2008 3:26:01 PM Central Standard Time, 
charly at mitchelplumbing.com writes:


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you 
> can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
> Charly Mitchel
> 

Charly...

No experience  with an ultrasonic cleaner in the shop (we've got the old 
fashioned squirt gun type), but I have one for my dentures.  Works great.  Much 
better than soaking with those pellets.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From Gt6steve at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 08:00:30 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:00:30 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fting brake discs?
Message-ID: <d54.204df23e.34bcd30e@aol.com>

Amici, 
To tap the wellspring of knowledge here,  What's the idea behind the floating 
brake discs as seen on high end racecars?  To reduce heat transfer to the 
hubs?  Make alighnment less critical?  Enquiring minds wanna know...Steve



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From jeff_durant at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 10:12:28 2008
From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:12:28 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <1332583019-1200330919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1729101526-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jim,
I've used different motorcycle fork oil weights over the years and found 40 wt. works well in my street TR250.  Heavier for the TR6 racer.  If your seals are weak, you will blow them out however.  I believe Apple Hydralics sells uprated seals suitable for heavier weight fluid.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
#12 TR6 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "jim hearn" <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 
To:"'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Mon Jan 14 10:20:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:20:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDPlus info
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820C0F58E2@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I have received a sample bottle, information flyers and Dealer pricing
for ZDDPlus that was talked about on the list last week. If anyone would
like a pdf of the flyers send me an email and I'll send it to you. The
product lists for $9.95 for a 4 ounze bottle  which is good for one oil
change.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Mon Jan 14 11:41:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:41:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] FRANK LAND Quick Change Rear End   -  IRS    ????
Message-ID: <c83.1b4b4429.34bd06c1@cs.com>

FoT,

I am going to be looking at a quick change rear that I have acquired.  It is 
an IRS style with TR-250 modified axles attached to it.

I have no plans for it, but wanted to look it over and learn something from 
it.  

Does anyone have specific knowledge of these rear ends? I did find a website.

Thanks!  Joe A   </HTML>

From WEmery7451 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:10:54 2008
From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:10:54 EST
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:

<< Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be  functio
nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?  Thanks
, Jim in Sacramento >>

We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 40
or 50 weight.
**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
shape.
     http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 20:43:47 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:43:47 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01c8565f$abf4fb20$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for
solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used
widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why
don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it
produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <WEmery7451 at aol.com>
To: <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


> In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:
>
> << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functio
> nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?
Thanks
> , Jim in Sacramento >>
>
> We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
40
> or 50 weight.
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
>      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:51:28 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:51:28 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
Message-ID: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>

I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly 12
years.
Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around the
house.

I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
bio-diesel is
2 hours away from me.  Sigh.

Shane Ingate in remote NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From westerneagleracing at att.net  Mon Jan 14 13:18:15 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:18:15 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <011420082018.15125.478BC3870006F01600003B1522218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

Good questions.  Does anyone have the answers and the availablity.  I would use it too.  The smell is so much a part of the 60's racing.  I last used it in my 64 Lotus Elan in the late 60's.
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>: -------------- 


> Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for 
> solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used 
> widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why 
> don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it 
> produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable. 
> Steve P. 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks 
> 
> 
> > In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> > jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: 
> > 
> > << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be 
> functio 
> > nal rear racing shocks? If so, what is the suggested replacement oil? 
> Thanks 
> > , Jim in Sacramento >> 
> > 
> > We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
> 40 
> > or 50 weight. 
> > ************** 
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in 
> > shape. 
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> > Fot mailing list 
> > Fot at autox.team.net 
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 21:24:17 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:24:17 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
Steve P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
12
> years.
> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
the
> house.
>
> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>
> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Mon Jan 14 14:26:37 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF6381@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> Problem
> is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.

There's bound to be a greasy spoon nearer than that ... beg their french-fry
grease then setup a converter in your garage.

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From tedtsimx at bright.net  Mon Jan 14 14:40:58 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:58 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of 
up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Mon Jan 14 14:55:00 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>

Hi all!

Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
good ole' USA!

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
-event-picture-thread.html

I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
into other cars:

"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."

What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application
hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting

From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Mon Jan 14 15:01:20 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:01:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile solvents
as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the localized
surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature 5000degrees F.
With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in this type of
cleaner.
The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous solvents
for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks and
crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is scraped of
first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good degreaser and
wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that Simple
green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also wondering if
tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
<fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for
in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a
good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it
in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
> > I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
nearly
> 12
> > years.
> > Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
carbs.
> > It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
around
> the
> > house.
> >
> > I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
nearest
> > bio-diesel is
> > 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
> >
> > Shane Ingate in remote NM
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 15:20:26 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:20:26 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
	<005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <5472DE90-6E74-4C4C-880F-D5DDB0420A37@earthlink.net>

One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
**Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
the trick.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 14, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote:

> With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile  
> solvents
> as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the  
> localized
> surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature  
> 5000degrees F.
> With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in  
> this type of
> cleaner.
> The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous  
> solvents
> for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
> creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks  
> and
> crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is  
> scraped of
> first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good  
> degreaser and
> wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that  
> Simple
> green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also  
> wondering if
> tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
> To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
> <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is  
>> called for
> in
>> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user  
>> friendly, a
> good
>> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also  
>> burn it
> in
>> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
>> Steve P.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>>
>>
>>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
> nearly
>> 12
>>> years.
>>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
> carbs.
>>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
> around
>> the
>>> house.
>>>
>>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
> nearest
>>> bio-diesel is
>>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>>
>>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>>
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html? 
> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 14 15:22:31 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:22:31 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <016b01c856fb$f4cf3760$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Ordinary pump diesel is also an excellent parts cleaner. Slightly different number on the Redwood 
scale but just as effective as paraffin (kero)

Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


>I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
> 12
>> years.
>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
> the
>> house.
>>
>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
>> bio-diesel is
>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>
>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 15:36:44 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:36:44 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <cf7.26654838.34bd3dfc@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/14/2008 4:23:35 PM Central Standard Time, 
Lunkercars at earthlink.net writes:


> One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
> Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
> iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
> idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
> from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
> **Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
> has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
> underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
> original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
> the trick.
> 

Absolutely.  Vinegar is acid.  I logged over 45 years in the masonry 
business.  The state of Wisconsin will not allow you to wash fresh face brick work 
with acid.  A solvent made from 10% muriatic acid and 90% water is the 
traditional wash down used by mason contractors for washing fresh brickwork.  And used 
properly by professionals it works just fine.  But the state would not let you 
use it on their buildings.  You have to use 'similar' to remove mortar smears, 
so on state jobs we used to use vinegar in a spray bottle.  When inspectors 
used to ask, "Hey what the heck is that stuff you're using?", my guys used to 
spray it in their own  mouths, and answer, "It's nothing that will hurt me and 
it won't hurt a brick wall either."

Bill Dentinger.
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From dave at microworks.net  Mon Jan 14 16:44:51 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
References: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <20080114235016.YDMZ18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The rules are fantastic.  Worth reading the site just for them

At 02:55 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
>and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
>good ole' USA!
>
>http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/
>
>And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
>http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
>-event-picture-thread.html
>
>I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
>car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
>into other cars:
>
>"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
>for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."
>
>What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(
>
>Keep Triumphing,
>Susan    :)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application
>hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From sean.green at seawestproducts.com  Mon Jan 14 16:58:45 2008
From: sean.green at seawestproducts.com (Sean Green)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:58:45 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <478BF735.3020906@seawestproducts.com>

I gave up on lever shocks a few years ago on my TR-6 that I use for 
autocross. I switched to a single adjustable SPAX shock (available in a 
conversion kit from RevingtonTR in the UK) and liked that a little 
better. They lasted about a season before I had to replace them. The 
shock I'm using now is an Ohlins double adjustable. It's a very good 
unit. I was finally able to tame the car with those. They are on the 
expensive side, about $800 each, but I think they're worth it. There 
will be a pair in the front too when I finish my restoration.

-Sean Green
71 Triumph TR-6

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 14 18:32:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:32:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>

FoT Brain Trust,

I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I 
wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would 
fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new 
cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in 
the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member 
approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good 
starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 21:19:05 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>
Message-ID: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>

Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schumacher [mailto:tedtsimx at bright.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:41 PM
To: jim hearn
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested
replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which
had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of

up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 14 21:33:39 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:33:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478C37A3.3040505@bradakis.com>

We have a customer who's restoring an MGC.  Powder coated this,
that and the other.  Lever shocks, or at least the seals and oil within,
do not stand up well to the heat of curing.  Too bad he didn't just ask
us first!

mjb.

From triosan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 22:21:53 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:21:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
In-Reply-To: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
References: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801142121ua2f9bd0re56ead7e0c03b7b7@mail.gmail.com>

Allen,
Did not get to the car tonight -- can you believe it snowed in Seattle and
my storage/garage is 20 miles to the east [more snow].  Should be sunny and
warmer tomorrow so I will get you your brake information.

As to the fuel cell -- the best I have seen is how Tony Garmey built
supports to hold a cell in John James's TR4.  He welded triangular plates to
the roll bar extensions that extended to the bolts on the sides of the
cell.  He then bolted the cell to the plates.  His boss flipped a car with a
cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
over can be real vicious.  I was doing corner work this summer when an RX7
rolled twice sidewards then once end to end.  IT was amazing how much stuff
tore loose.  Very lucky driver given that he ended up upside down,
unconscious, and the muffler had punctured the fuel cell setting it on
fire.  He was lucky because the rear of the car was downhill from him so
flames went away.  And he was directly in front of a corner station.  It was
also amazing to see the skill of the track saftey workers as they cut him
loose from the belts, worked him sidewards and got him out the pasenger
side.  The driver did suffer a mild concussion, a broken arm and smoke
inhalation [the latter being the most serious long term problem].  Still in
all, the safety cage, belts and Hans did there job admirably well.

On Jan 14, 2008 5:32 PM, Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:

> FoT Brain Trust,
>
> I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I
> wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would
> fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new
> cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in
> the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member
> approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good
> starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold

From neil at revingtontr.com  Tue Jan 15 03:04:18 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:04:18 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153BD5@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

We keep this part in thin fibreglass under the original part number of
706882
The black gel coat is indistinguishable from the original plastic part
See
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
GSFuqua1 at aol.com
Sent: 11 January 2008 22:01
To: fot at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the
dash I am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various
switches, cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the
old one but it is in very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could
help me out?

Thanks,

Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From GRMTim at aol.com  Tue Jan 15 10:53:57 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:53:57 EST
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <d41.1f82e080.34be4d35@aol.com>

We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.

Here's the official release.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
series.

LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
appeal, and
implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.

The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
coverage
than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
least
expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
and
affordable competition.

"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
budget-conscious
prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
like this in real life."

After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."

As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
testament
to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."

With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
and
new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
than
available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.





**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:44:40 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2840BE6DA96119469A9EAE8C470@phx.gbl>

Chuck Arnold wrote:

> As to the fuel cell...  His boss flipped a car with a
> cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
> They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
> over can be real vicious.

Great balls of fire, Batman!  Thats one area that I figured that if I
engineered  it better than stock, it should be good to go, but this has
given me grounds for pause.

In my setup (impossible to see in the next pic)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3911/2002/1600/FuelSafe.jpg
I borrowed a trick from the bolt-in rollbar crowd and sandwiched
the sheet metal holding the braces between 1/4" steel thick strapping.
I'm no-longer convinced that this will prevent 150 lbs of cell and fuel
from wanting to leave it's cosy little home during a hard roll.

Thinking cap on!

Shane Ingate, retreating to his Batcave, in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:48:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:48:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Re fuel cell mounting in a TR
Message-ID: <BLU127-W1368BD1EE17A197BCBDE8F8C470@phx.gbl>

Sorry.  Senior moment.  3/8" thick steel strapping, not 1.4".

Shane


_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M
ediaCtr_bigscreen_012008

From koblinger at verizon.net  Tue Jan 15 12:27:22 2008
From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:27:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount. 

Cheers,
Kurt O. (running for cover)


>From: GRMTim at aol.com
>Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!

>We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
>of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>
>Here's the official release.
>
>Tim Suddard
>Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>www.classicmotorsports.net
>www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
>The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
>now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
>series.
>
>LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
>appeal, and
>implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
>up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
>to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
>a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>
>The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
>coverage
>than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
>least
>expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
>with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
>and
>affordable competition.
>
>"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
>seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
>PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>budget-conscious
>prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
>like this in real life."
>
>After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
>raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
>up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
>shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>
>As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
>celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
>founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
>professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>testament
>to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."
>
>With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
>and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
>Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
>and
>new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
>than
>available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
>returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
>teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
>plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From westerneagleracing at att.net  Tue Jan 15 13:51:18 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:51:18 +0000
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <011520082051.29128.478D1CC60001A75C000071C822228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

If you want to get a little extra use out of your $500.00 car, Martin Swig puts on the annual Double 500 - 500k of beautiful norther California roads in a car that can't cost more than $500.00
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "spitfiresuz at 141.com" <spitfiresuz at 141.com>: -------------- 


> Hi all! 
> 
> Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car 
> and all that? Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the 
> good ole' USA! 
> 
> http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/ 
> 
> And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures): 
> http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official 
> -event-picture-thread.html 
> 
> I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the 
> car! And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running 
> into other cars: 
> 
> "This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator 
> for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone." 
> 
> What fun!! Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast. :( 
> 
> Keep Triumphing, 
> Susan :) 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application 
> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan 15 14:31:05 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:31:05 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>

I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
Nordschleife.
I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 640
oil.
You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to move
it.

A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
them from time to time.

Cheers
Chris


    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim

From trmarty at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 17:55:18 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:55:18 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FOT short one friend
In-Reply-To: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
References: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY123-W42837029B3DFEB13E332F1BA400@phx.gbl>

Sorry to report fellow FOT Ed Ceilley passed away yesterday. Lost his battle
with the big C. Richardson Funeral Home in Cedar Falls Iowa is handling the
arrangements and services will be this Saturday at St. Patrick's church in
Cedar Falls Iowa at 10:30.  Keep Yvonne in your thoughts.

Marty Sukey

_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008

From tr4.tony at virgin.net  Wed Jan 16 01:35:13 2008
From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:35:13 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
Message-ID: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>

Hi

I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - you can 
set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. These 
are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.

Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and give me 
24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the top of 
the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.

I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good results 
on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough surfaces 
(where the car struggles generally).

A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the MGB) 
and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good and FIA 
legal.

Regards

Tony


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


>I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
> Nordschleife.
> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 
> 640
> oil.
> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to 
> move
> it.
>
> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
> them from time to time.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>
>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan 16 05:46:44 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:46:44 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
	<001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
Message-ID: <8acf727aef083b5c8526f82ebb0214de@wi.rr.com>

World Wide Auto sells a modified lever arm shock that has an adjuster 
valve built in. Contact: http://www.nosimport.com/?

Allen

On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:35 AM, TR4Tony wrote:

> Hi
>
> I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - 
> you can
> set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. 
> These
> are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.
>
> Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and 
> give me
> 24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the 
> top of
> the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.
>
> I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good 
> results
> on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough 
> surfaces
> (where the car struggles generally).
>
> A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the 
> MGB)
> and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good 
> and FIA
> legal.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
> To: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
>
>
>> I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
>> Nordschleife.
>> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and 
>> EP
>> 640
>> oil.
>> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to
>> move
>> it.
>>
>> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. 
>> Retighten
>> them from time to time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan 17 05:52:26 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
Message-ID: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>

Dateline Atlanta....

Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.

Joe A
Enroute to Florida
Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 17 06:53:12 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:53:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
In-Reply-To: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
References: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
Message-ID: <ae072ea28db9c9ff5f249e68aa7d4cf9@wi.rr.com>

Great to have another Architect in the group. Welcome Richard.
What kind of car?

Allen - AIA
On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:52 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> Dateline Atlanta....
>
> Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
> Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.
>
> Joe A
> Enroute to Florida
> Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From twakeman at razzolink.com  Thu Jan 17 07:32:32 2008
From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:32:32 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Looking for SU HD8
Message-ID: <478F6700.4030205@razzolink.com>

I have a friend who dropped a cylinder head with intake & carb attached 
on the carb.

Does anyone have a single SU HD8 on a shelf gathering dust that they are 
willing to sell?  Ted?

It is a single carb off a Rover six cylinder engine but was used on Jags 
& performance big Healeys & the likes.

Speaking of which I don't supose anyone has a good condition 3L Rover 
six from a P4 sitting around being used as a door stop?

TeriAnn

From spitlist at cox.net  Fri Jan 18 12:04:57 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:04:57 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fw: Engine Bearings
Message-ID: <002301c85a05$0467b1a0$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I just got this message and thought it might be interesting to Spitfire owners
on the list.

Joe C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Basil Adams
To: spitlist at cox.net
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:46 AM
Subject: Engine Bearings


I just had a customer (a large supplier of British parts) tell me that
Spitfire engine bearings have become scarce.  I wondered why someone bought 24
sets of old-stock Vandervells from me recently.  If you want to let your
members know, I have more available for both the small journal and 1500cc
Spitfires.  Thanks.  Basil

From pvucinic at netspace.net.au  Sat Jan 19 03:28:49 2008
From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:28:49 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>

Dear Listers,

 

I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little softer
/ with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get enough heat
into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too aggressive
on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street use
would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and slotted
rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I just
need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.  

 

Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake booster,
STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
Lining Material are you using on the Shoes? 

 

Any input will be gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

Kind Regards

Peter Vucinic

TR-4

_____________________________________________

Fot mailing list

Fot at autox.team.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 08:00:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <98e93157ba13340fc2dd75ea8e144eef@wi.rr.com>

Peter,

You can make the back brakes work harder for you by changing the rear 
wheel cylinders to a larger bore. Use the Morgan cylinders which you 
can get through British Parts Northwest http://www.bpnorthwest.com/ . I 
believe that they list these as a performance upgrade for TR4's and 
TR6's. I have Ted Schumaker line my rear shoes with kevlar material 
which works well. This setup makes you more aware of the rear brakes 
working for you as the tail of the car will dance a bit under heavy 
braking.

Allen

On Jan 19, 2008, at 4:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little 
> softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get 
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too 
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street 
> use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and 
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I 
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake 
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 09:24:30 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:24:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <92E20A28-BFF3-4716-B5B6-286358AD4A26@earthlink.net>

Another option that sounds more pricey is to call "Carbotech."  They  
can reccommend a material and reline your pads / shoes.  Thing is,  
you have to turn the drums / discs to get the old material off and  
then bed the brakes.  Shoes / Pads ran me $280  They have many  
available friction materials available.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/index.html



~Steve


On Jan 19, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a  
> little softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get  
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too  
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for  
> street use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and  
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I  
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining  
> material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake  
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand /  
> Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 18:27:46 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
Message-ID: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>

Hi gang, here are a couple of questions that are pretty basic but  
very important.  also, its hard to find the answers in the books.
here goes...

Question 1: crank end float.  Is this measurement to be taken on both  
sides of the center main cap?
Should I push the crank all the way one direction and then measure  
the gap, then do the other side?  or..  should I position the crank  
in the middle and see that the gap is equal on both sides?


Question 2:  Should I torque the main cap bolts to the recommended  
90lbs?  or do you guys go a little higher for racing?


Thanks!

~Steve

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:17:07 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:17:07 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
In-Reply-To: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>

I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
a decent one will be worth it.

mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:27:03 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Server notes
Message-ID: <4792B177.4050004@bradakis.com>

Gee, meant to add this to the message I just sent regarding
crank end float.  My servers are under attack from bad guys
again, perhaps the same group from Brazil that got me a few
years ago.  I'm hoping there will be no interruptions of the
various Team.Net services, but if things go away for a few
hours while I shuffle stuff around, update or whatever
don't worry too much.  I'll have it all fixed by Feb. 23rd,
the night of  the Beach Party!  More on that later.

Why is it that the bad guys seem to have more time to
propagate their mischief than the good guys have time
to control it?  Sometimes I do wonder why I keep
doing this, sigh.

Anyway, just a heads up.

mjb.

From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 21:07:52 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:07:52 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
Message-ID: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>

So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
and recycled the catalog.
 
Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
and they have no more.
Let me know if you are my new hero! 
Thanks
Alison

From ejmajor250 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 20 04:46:56 2008
From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:46:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
References: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 20 12:31:40 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:31:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
	<4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c85b9b$18c1c630$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, a couple things:
I have a bunch of machinist items, including dial indicators, that I can
part with if any of you guys need anything.
Also, even as we speak (sorry Johnny) there is a TR6 Repair and Operation
Manual on e-bay. I have a a copy myself and it's very good. There's a good
section on how to check and adjust crankshaft end-float. It can be checked
in the car, but only be adjusted with the pan off.
Ted Schumacher gave me some pointers about end-float adjustment that were
very helpful. It's quite an important spec. Thanks, Ted.
I think Kaz may have covered the subject in his books, also.
Take care and stay warm.
Bill Tobin TR6  Erie, PA  (Darned cold here!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?


> I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
> putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
> a decent one will be worth it.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 20 12:41:11 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pikes Peak Hill Climb
Message-ID: <20080120.124111.2948.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Are there any of you out there with interest in being part of the second
oldest motor sports event in America?

Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has arranged with the Pikes Peak
International Hill Climb, to include a "Vintage" group of up to forty
(40) cars. They are looking for A/P, B/P, C/P, A/S, B/S, C/S, entries,
primarily. They are wanting cars that can do the 12.42 mile, 156 corners,
climbing about 4,708 feet in less than 15 minutes (schedule, you know). 

For complete event info, see http://www.ppihc.com/ , The RMVR contact is
: Tony Martins cycleworksusa at msn.com . There is also some information
developing at www.rmvr.com .
Make your own history!
Bill

From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 15:57:11 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:57:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>
Message-ID: <000001c85bb7$cb095b70$6401a8c0@blake1>

I want to say a red or rust color but pretty sure it was a Christmas
catalog.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Major [mailto:ejmajor250 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:47 AM
To: Greg & Alison Blake; 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] The Roadster Factory

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs
like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age
11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was
cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster
Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sun Jan 20 16:20:13 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mike Munson
Message-ID: <6E3E3782.1B724B7B.00159EE9@cs.com>

Mike....we are near Bowling Green...Hampton Inn Franklin.

319.464.4711

Could you give me a call?

Thanks, Joe A
5:30 Sunday

From igofaster at charter.net  Sun Jan 20 16:30:30 2008
From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>

Rimmer Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?
Also, with solid engine mounts on the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount. Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a solid tranny mount?

Bobby Whitehead
#54GT6+ CVAR

From budscars at msn.com  Sun Jan 20 17:00:52 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (budscars at msn.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:00:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
Message-ID: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
ONE
Thanks
Racer Bud
Spitfire #21   sonoma, ca.> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800> From:
igofaster at charter.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> CC: fot-request at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.> > Rimmer
Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock
mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the
tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock
that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?> Also, with solid engine mounts on
the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount.
Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a
solid tranny mount?> > Bobby Whitehead> #54GT6+ CVAR>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From Gt6steve at aol.com  Sun Jan 20 17:15:59 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:15:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
Message-ID: <d66.219cd97b.34c53e3f@aol.com>

Keep something soft mounted for stress relief.  If you have solid  engine 
mounts then the trans mount should have some flex.
 
What do you hope to accomplish with the frame mounted shocks?  Bigger  tires 
in the tiny wheelwells?  Can't see any other advantage.  The GT6  is already 
crippled with very little rear suspension travel.  The shorty  shocks will make 
it worse.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 22:21:36 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:21:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>

What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
details before I paint.
 
Thanks,
 
Greg

From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 21 11:03:19 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:03:19 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <BAY123-W1846DD92507DF48D7BBE8ABA3D0@phx.gbl>

Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?

Thanks,
Marty Sukey
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 21 14:05:00 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:05:00 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
In-Reply-To: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
References: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <7B35629B-8013-4E58-B5B5-95A1143461C8@earthlink.net>

I'm running 15" Panasport rims.

Tires:  Yokohama Advan  A048R 205 60 HR 15  medium compound

There's a spacer on the front hubs, not sure of it's thickness.  No  
mods to the fenders at all.  My car is very low and there are slight  
signs of rubber possibly making contact with the fender lip.

~Steve


On Jan 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Greg & Alison Blake wrote:

> What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you  
> rolling
> the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
> details before I paint.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 14:24:15 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:24:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] for sale
Message-ID: <681389.29309.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Spitfire #4 White is for sale.
  a pic of it is on the fot site... spitfires...  far right, 4th row down.
  Legal in MC as vintage or F Prod. 
  No engine (useable that is)
  Tranny seemed a bit loose, having trouble getting 3rd gear when parked.
  Roll bar and side bars meet MC regs.  Main hoop is short for current SCCA and would have to be raised.
  Fiberglass bonnet, came from england and was supposedly hand built for the spits but never shipped to the US.
  Steel bonnet goes with the car also.
  Custom header and stainless exhaust goes with car.
  Several spares.
   
  I would prefer to sell the open trailer(currently burried in a wisconsin snowbank) and tow vehicle (ford f350 sb351 & 5 speed stick) along with the race car.
    I will try to get more specifics and pics together over the next week or two.  I will eventually list it on craigs list, but would prefer to have someone who cares about it get the car.  Its a fun little car, and deserves a bit of TLC and an owner who will race it as it should be raced.
    Hopefully someone from the list will be interested and give her a good home.
    Anyone who is interested feel free to call or drop by.  Best times are mornings from around 9:30 AM to 2:00 PM (central time) Tue thru Fri... pretty much anytime weekends untill around 2 or so monday afternoon.  (I work 3rd shift & usually try to sleep late afternoon & evening).
  920-733-5013
   


Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire

From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 14:29:38 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:29:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <1427349.3747921200950978690.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net>

Marty;
       Here is one that I have used.   http://www.5speeds.com/rpm.htm

Dean Tetterton




>Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
>allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
>allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
>use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?
>
>Thanks,
>Marty Sukey
>_________________________________________________________________

From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 17:25:34 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:25:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] 4 White  4 sale  forgot to add...
Message-ID: <259707.53228.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

forgot to add ... price is open, negotiable, and reasonable.

Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire

From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 17:28:03 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:28:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <23309691.4335981200961683947.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net>

>What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
>the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
>details before I paint.
> 
>Thanks,
> 
>Greg


I use the 6X15 Panasports with the regular TR6 offset. The tires are 5.50 X 15 Vintage TD or the 205 Speedsters. No clearence problems. They are close to the rear spring on the inside but no sign of rubbing.

Dean T.
58 TR3A

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 18:12:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:12:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888

From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 18:20:43 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:20:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <338995.70502.qm@web81714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes - Will was camped right across from me at MOTRA - good guy.  I'll second.
   
  Dennis DeLap

Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:
  FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From tr6nut at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 18:26:49 2008
From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47954659.7020004@verizon.net>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
> in Milwaukee. ...I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
>   
I'll second the nomination.

Hugh Barber
Stafford, VA
'73 TR6

From emanteno at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 19:38:19 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:38:19 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <012220080238.4034.4795571B000B37E700000FC22207024553970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> 

> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
> involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second? 
Second. I have been email "chatting" with Will for a couple of years. I'm looking forward to actually meeting him.
Irv

From budscars at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 09:10:35 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:10:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] kastner a 10 a cam
Message-ID: <004401c856c7$fff55d10$0302a8c0@Bud>

does someone have the lobe measurements of kastner  A10A cam for spitfire?  I
have one listed on Ebay.  please contact tej at cableracer.com
my new email address is going through the fot approval process
Thanks
Racer Bud

From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 12:36:13 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:36:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FE0B499A-22FA-4B8D-A552-6E1D780FB9E6@bnj.com>

I'm sure we'd want something much stouter. I've never done one of  
these, though I planned to back when it was a single event. Somehow it  
never happened. But I've heard all about it. You want iron around you,  
not brit tin. And you need a motor that doesn't mind abuse. An old  
buick regal with some mexican tires sounds right.

I don't know how anyone could buy a Z28 in any state for $500. It must  
be extraordinary.

On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:27 AM, <koblinger at verizon.net> <koblinger at verizon.net 
 > wrote:

> I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this  
> extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount.
>
> Cheers,
> Kurt O. (running for cover)
>
>
>> From: GRMTim at aol.com
>> Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>> To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
>
>> We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have  
>> entered one
>> of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>>
>> Here's the official release.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots  
>> Motorsports is
>> now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest  
>> endurance-race
>> series.
>>
>> LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>> endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on  
>> creativity,
>> appeal, and
>> implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid  
>> is made
>> up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do  
>> their best
>> to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long  
>> endurance race,
>> a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>> pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>>
>> The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>> metastized into a national series with thousands of participants  
>> and more
>> coverage
>> than most professional racing groups-has been called the most  
>> entertaining,
>> least
>> expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a  
>> natural fit
>> with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten  
>> focus on fun
>> and
>> affordable competition.
>>
>> "LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first- 
>> timers to
>> seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in  
>> his best
>> PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>> budget-conscious
>> prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course  
>> nobody talks
>> like this in real life."
>>
>> After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From  
>> searching for
>> raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the  
>> hours leading
>> up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for  
>> speed,
>> shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>>
>> As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons  
>> events with
>> celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island  
>> Concours
>> founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced  
>> automotive
>> professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>> testament
>> to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement  
>> as I am."
>>
>> With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap  
>> penalties,
>> and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the  
>> best yet.
>> Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has  
>> sold out
>> and
>> new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more  
>> applicants
>> than
>> available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an  
>> enthusiastic base of
>> returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY  
>> racers. By
>> teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours  
>> of LeMons
>> plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>> For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:16:35 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:16:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>

Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
> light
> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
> and
> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>
> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety
> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>
> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
> phase
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
> Allen
>
> Jody & Allen Washatko
> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
> USA
>
> tel. (262) 375-6888
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:26:19 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:26:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
	<421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <4DD08C99-884C-41B4-9CEF-72443CE44A54@bnj.com>

oops, too many email accounts
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:
>
>> FoT,
>>
>> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
>> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
>> light
>> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
>> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
>> and
>> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>>
>> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and  
>> safety
>> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>>
>> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
>> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
>> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
>> phase
>> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>>
>> Allen
>>
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
>
>
>

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 10:20:03 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:20:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Mon Jan 21 21:09:18 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pacific Life commercial
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV7AA09781CCDD6C5F58B56B73E0@phx.gbl>

Hey Bill, was that you on your long board riding a wave in that "Boomer" ad?
<grin>

Kev Lynch

From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 21:09:36 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:09:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] High End Triumph Site
Message-ID: <369162.22872.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim

----- Original Message
----
From: "Guyots3 at wmconnect.com" <Guyots3 at wmconnect.com>
To:
fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 6:05:29 PM
Subject: Re:
[Fot] High End Triumph Site

In a message dated 11/26/2007 8:46:55 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007
15:21:14 -0500
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fot]
High End Triumph Site
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc:
igofaster at charter.net
>
> I have heard enough about this Chris Cancelli of PRI
to recognize that he is
> a scam artist of the worst kind, and a liar.

There
are many people on different Triumph newsgroups in the USA & the UK
that have
been ripped off by him.

It is very simple, SEND NO MONEY, not now, not ever.
Looking out for my friends on the FoT.

Happy Holidays

Lion




  </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


      Make the switch to the
world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail

From walt at hot-tr6.com  Mon Jan 21 21:11:31 2008
From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Help
In-Reply-To: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080122041200.B17AE1878E6@autox.team.net>

Here is the information I have on PRI but I have not tried to contact them
for a few months. I am about to order a couple of more cams/lifters if they
are wtill in business.

Performance Research Industries
1313 Duke St Suite. A
Sutherlin, Or. 97479
Ph 1 541-459-5442
 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cun
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Help

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have been
emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit hard
to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone has
any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
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Fot mailing list
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From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 21 21:21:18 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:21:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] List stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
	<BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47956F3E.4090808@bradakis.com>

> CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
> ONE
>   
To unsubscribe your old address and subscribe your new one, you unsubscribe
your old address and subscribe your new one.  The mailman links included in
each message can be helpful.


mjb.

From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 21 21:49:02 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Neat link for figuring engine stats
Message-ID: <959468.99293.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Since this summer I've been in the process of working on my now 17 y.o. son's first car, a '72 Datsun 240Z. First thing we did was pull the stock motor and tranny and installed a fuel injected '77 280Z motor and 5 speed. After that was running great we turbocharged it with a turbo from a Cummins Turbo Diesel. Not really the best choice but I picked that turbo because they can be had cheaply. After I got all my plumbing issues squared away I can dial in 12 lbs of boost and this things a rocket. I will admit that when this kicks in at 4000 rpm this old man gets scared. He is now building up the original motor into a normally aspirated 240Z stroker (240 with a 280 crank and flat-top pistons). In his wandering through the net he stumbled upon the link below for figuring engine stats. It is geared for the Z cars...all the pre-loaded info is Z related, but, you can say "other" and put your own stats in and figure out your own needs. Give it a try. I plugged in some TR
 info from some motors I'm currently building and the numbers are interesting. 
  Just thought I'd share this with you all. - Ed
  http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/

From m-syork at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 22:56:23 2008
From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:56:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Triumph scores at SOVREN banquet
Message-ID: <000101c85cbb$85597010$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim>

Several FOT members "brought home the brass" at the year end SOVREN awards
banquet.

Bill Hart in his '57 Devin Triumph was third place in Group 1 (Vintage small
bore pre-1962)

Charly Mitchel in his '69 Triumph TR6 was second in group Small Bore
Historics

Steve Hare was named "Rookie of the Year" piloting his "63 Spitfire.

Good job mates!

Mark

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 08:24:27 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:24:27 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>

FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>

From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 08:36:02 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
References: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>

There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of  
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing  
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east  
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's  
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better  
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:54:22 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:54:22 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <OF092E8254.CAA935E4-ON852573D8.005700CB-852573D8.00577292@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.
If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel

go to  WWW.VARAC.CA  /Festival/Accommodations  and there you find a list 
of B+B and Hotels.
i normally camp over the Weekend.

Peter

Peter Bulkowski





Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com>
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:36 AM
 
        To:     N197TR4 at cs.com
        cc:     Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
        Subject:        Re: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in 
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of 
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing 
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east 
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's 
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better 
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:58:31 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:58:31 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Hotels
Message-ID: <035901c85d0f$a35b9580$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Bowmanville is the nearest town that has a few of the typical hotels, Oshawa
is a little further west and would have a full range of choices.
Nothing right at the track, guess Don Panoz didn't get around to it.
Simon.

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 09:02:23 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:02:23 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>

Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and at the 
track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.

But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time and 
looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but there may be 
better.

Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/ 

The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are large 
enough...not that I have seen them.

Thanks!

VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/ 

Joe



    



> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in Nero. 
> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord of the 
> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it. There's a 
> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I don't 
> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good restaurants there. Are 
> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go. 
> 

   </HTML>

From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 09:33:58 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:33:58 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
References: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
Message-ID: <29E064FA-7FED-495D-AB4F-84A854CC47C2@gmail.com>

Diane and I did stay at a very pretty B&B on a nearby lake--big  
victorian place. but it was a ways from the track.

On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:02 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote:

> Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and  
> at the
> track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.
>
> But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time  
> and
> looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but  
> there may be
> better.
>
> Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/
>
> The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are  
> large
> enough...not that I have seen them.
>
> Thanks!
>
> VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
>> Nero.
>> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord  
>> of the
>> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it.  
>> There's a
>> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I  
>> don't
>> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good  
>> restaurants there. Are
>> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go.
>>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Billbab at gmail.com
www.kenalu.com
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog

From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 10:01:38 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <OFCA23ED8B.26152D03-ON852573D8.005D571E-852573D8.005D9B00@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.

If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel.

Go to  WWW.VARAC.CA / Festival/ Accommodation  there you will find Hotels 
and B+B listed

Regards.

Peter Bulkowski
Technical Manager,Special Projects
Cell 416-520-6108
Offi. 416-847-7514
98 Vanderhoof Ave.
Toronto,Ont.  M4G 4C9




N197TR4 at cs.com
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:24 AM
 
        To:     fot at autox.team.net
        cc: 
        Subject:        [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 22 10:03:39 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:03:39 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <BLU127-W15071B7B402F4B6136B3858C3E0@phx.gbl>

Jim Cun wrote:

> I am owed a few items from PRI and have
> been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a
bit
> hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if
anyone
> has any information please email me.

Good luck Jim.  This scab has owed me parts and money for 5 years.
He was run out of San Diego 10 years ago, and I hear that the Alfa
community might send a posse with a rope.

Again, good luck, and I mean that sincerely.

Shane Ingate in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan 23 22:34:32 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <20080124053947.ORYI20092.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The current issue of F1 Mag has a very interesting article on the 
combination of gases the Teams have been experimenting with regards 
to filling their tires.

This was one of the issues in the "Stepney-gate" affair and was in 
the emails between Alonso and de La Rosa.  Ferrari was experimenting 
with using hydoflurocarbons (similar to that found in your A/C and 
refrigerator) to keep the tires cooler so they would not grain and blister.

The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it 
gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Pat Symonds of Renault said "...it has a tiny effect that's difficult 
to measure on track.  But because F1 is so restrictive it's all about 
adding up the tiny effects to get a  larger one."

From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 00:03:03 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:03:03 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <000001c85e57$29ec8030$6401a8c0@blake1>

What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?
 
Thanks,
 
Greg

From Gt6steve at aol.com  Thu Jan 24 06:19:33 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:19:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>

Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse  them.  
Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most likely you can 
lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From billbab at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 08:35:39 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:35:39 -0800
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
In-Reply-To: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
References: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>

I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it  
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill  
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300  
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of  
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse   
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most  
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 24 08:42:23 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block?  I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com> wrote:  I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Thu Jan 24 09:33:08 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:33:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Header trades.. bits needed & for sale
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV55159DD567E4E83525976B7380@phx.gbl>

Amici, I've a friend who has a 1296 chrome header that he needs to sell or
trade for a 1147 header . He also has a Mk4 alternator for sale or trade. He
also is needing an "early" hard top.

Thank you from the sunny High Plains.

Kevin


 I have and also  I need an early hard top if someone wants to trade!!

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 24 13:21:02 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>

> The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Do you mean nitrogen?

Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html

Shane Ingate, air is air when sucking hard at 7500', in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

From slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net  Thu Jan 24 17:38:06 2008
From: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net (John McCue)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:38:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
Message-ID: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>

I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the seller
says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the differences
between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this conversion
I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with a
Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into play.
Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Thu Jan 24 18:26:05 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:26:05 GMT
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <20080124.202605.25373.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

I have replaced guides in 4 or 5 heads and have just pressed them out.  I used
bronze guides for the new ones and have had no problem with the new ones being
loose in the head.  They have all needed to be reemed after being pressed into
the head to fit the valve.

The old guides are just the right size to use in my abrasive blast cabinet, so
they get put to good used.  Joe(B)

-- "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> wrote:
What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?

Thanks,

Greg
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find a school near you that offers project management
certification courses.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijncIOt087sG1bKDZWMzVwXdo
HWhgtgaOTgDKd0BXXiOlS42W/

From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Thu Jan 24 19:14:35 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:14:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <00ba01c85ef8$08430750$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

john, the TR250 and the 69 TR6 had flywheels with a longer end on the
crankshaft.  70 and later TR6 went to a shorter crankshaft and made the
flywheel longer and heavier.  I'm not sure what the GT6 or 2000 or 2500
saloons used.  I don't know if the TR6 flywheel will work on a GT6 motor,
but it should work on the saloons.
You can not mix the 2 different parts.  The transmissions, clutches and
everything else are the same and they can be interchanged.
You can buy the lightweight steel flywheel for the long or short snouted
crankshaft for about the same price as an aluminum one.  BPnorthwest.com has
them or I can get you one.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John McCue" <slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts


> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the
seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the
differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this
conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with
a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into
play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 20:06:13 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:06:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <59c709be3ebe628f8dbb40e269f12d0a@wi.rr.com>

John,

I believe the terms are actually "long" or "short" tail cranks. The 
long tail cranks were used in the early engines (up to CC50000) and the 
short tail cranks were used in later models. The difference is in the 
pilot bush length which fits into the flywheel. The long is 1" and the 
short is 1/2" in length.

If you are racing the car, I would highly recommend buying the 9.5 lb. 
alloy flywheel that British Parts Northwest sells. It will better 
withstand the destructive harmonics created by the TR6 crank. Be sure 
to add 4 additional bolts at the crank and use ARP flywheel bolts.

Allen

On Jan 24, 2008, at 6:38 PM, John McCue wrote:

> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the 
> seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the 
> differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this 
> conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor 
> with a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into 
> play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 24 21:07:06 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <440892.48234.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dale: The groove should be .030" deep and 3.5" in diameter if you want to use a stock headgasket. Thanks - Ed

dale oesterle <dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net> wrote:  Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block? I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock wrote: I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan 25 13:00:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:00:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] John Sprinzel
Message-ID: <c36.211ba39b.34cb99e1@aol.com>

Amici...

Bill Thompson, the Flounder at TEAM THICKO, asked me to pass this info along 
to all in the TRIUMPH community.  It concerns John Sprinzel (Speedwell 
Sprites, etc.,) and a rare book long out of print.  I've met Mr. Sprinzel several 
times.  He's a really neat guy, full of great stories.  If interested, here's the 
info:

Here's your chance to get a copy of a book long out of print. Original
copies have gone for hundreds of dollars on Ebay.  John Sprinzel has 
reprinted "Spritely Years" after buying the rights and the acetates back from Haynes. 

This is a "must have" for anyone interested in Sprites, Healeys, Triumph,
Ford, rallying, and a host of other cars John drove during his career. It's
an honest, informative, funny look at John's life as a driver, tuner,
manufacturer, etc.

Only 500 copies were produced for the 50th Sprite year anniversary, so that
they will still be fairly rare.  He is selling them autographed at $65 
including postage in the US ($71.00 overseas) .
 
His address is P.O. Box 97 Kaunakakai HI 96748

John's e-mail  address for this is johnsebring65 at gmail.com .

He does have Paypal, (though he says, "I am not yet too sure how it all
works"), otherwise US check or money order will do the trick. 

He'll have a few copies at the Sprite deal  in May, and Tom Coulthard
(co-author) might be there to sign them as well.




**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)

From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Fri Jan 25 15:41:21 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:41:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Weird Vehicle
Message-ID: <004501c85fa3$694b9c50$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

My apologies for "bombing" the list . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-Fletcher-Aviator-Bonneville-Cruiser_W0QQi
temZ140200642196QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140200642196

From dave at microworks.net  Fri Jan 25 16:43:25 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080125235656.VGNK18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

Nope.  He meant the same good ole that you breath air

"...During the fitting process Bridgestone inflate their Potenza 
rubber to 50psi to seat it on the wheel rim; they then supply the 
tyres to the teams at 20psi, along with an inflation range that teams 
must adhere to in the interests of safety.
Bridgestone inflate their tyres with normal - but dried - atmospheric 
air because its rate of expansion inside a tyre is predictable as the 
tyre heats up during racing conditions...
"We remove the moisture from the air to get a more consistent 
response to changes in temperature" says Bridgestone's technical 
manager, Tetsuro Kobayashi.  "Air normally consists of about 78 
percent nitrogen, and the moisture content is a variable of around 
one per cent..."

The article goes on to say that the teams have been experimenting 
with both nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

The wheel rims have two valves so that the teams can purge the wheel 
to add whatever gas they want.

At 01:21 PM 1/24/2008, Shane Ingate wrote:

> > The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> > gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.
>
>Do you mean nitrogen?
>
>Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Fri Jan 25 19:30:00 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:30:00 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>

Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
#VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
#VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box. Darn
thing is I can't recall what it was.

I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When time
allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an old
catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.

Kevin Colo.
GT6

From REK46 at aol.com  Sat Jan 26 06:17:13 2008
From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:17:13 EST
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>

The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat 
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and 
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The outers are 
same OD/ID size.


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL 
Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sat Jan 26 07:07:05 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
References: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV4B5A9A1CAE9123AF4163BB73A0@phx.gbl>

Ah, OK, that sounds like what happened. It was back in 1998.  Thanks for the
info/help! Have a great Daytona.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: REK46 at aol.com<mailto:REK46 at aol.com>
  To: klynch_6 at msn.com<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ;
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] C.R.S. !!


  The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The
outers are same OD/ID size.


  **************
  Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
  (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
00002548<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp
00300000002548>)

From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 26 09:54:38 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:54:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E610B361-C4CE-46C4-BA1B-65AB059A2D3C@earthlink.net>

I too had a question about an old box of Isky springs and retainers I  
inherited.
I gave them a call and talked to Ron Iskenderian.  He's very cool,  
helpful, and remembers all the product numbers!

~Steve


On Jan 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote:

> Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
> #VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
> #VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box.  
> Darn
> thing is I can't recall what it was.
>
> I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When  
> time
> allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an  
> old
> catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.
>
> Kevin Colo.
> GT6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 26 12:11:19 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] weber
Message-ID: <802417.39616.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can anyone tell me what choke, fuel and air jets, idle and emulsion tube go with a single 45 DCOE weber and a 1296 (Mark III spitfire) with 12 to 1 compression? Dale Oesterle

From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sat Jan 26 21:17:59 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:17:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
Message-ID: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>

I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my TR6.
When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only for
racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
anyone know if this is correct?

Thanks, Jim
Two 1974 TR6s

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]

From jmwagner at greenheart.com  Sun Jan 27 19:49:53 2008
From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:49:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPH TR4 TR4A FIBERGLASS Bonnet/Hood on EBAY
Message-ID: <479D42D1.1020405@greenheart.com>

FYI....  --Justin

Item number: 250103330582
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRIUMPH-TR4-TR4A-FIBERGLASS-Bonnet-Hood_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ015QQitemZ250103330582QQtcZphoto 

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Sun Jan 27 19:56:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:56:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/

From triosan at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 20:20:13 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
In-Reply-To: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801271920o41f3375cmca326349d17715bf@mail.gmail.com>

I have attached a picture for Jim Hearn who asked the question.  It shows my
engine from the side with the plumbing installed.  From it I can tell the
"out" is at the bottom and the in at the top of the adapter.  Does not show
the thermostat.  Does show a "T" I installed at the in  port. From the top
of the T one side goes to a feed to the number one cylinder oil galley.  The
other side goes to the accusump.



On Jan 26, 2008 8:17 PM, jim hearn <jimhearn1 at comcast.net> wrote:

> I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my
> TR6.
> When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
> which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only
> for
> racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
> anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
> oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
> bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
> anyone know if this is correct?
>
> Thanks, Jim
> Two 1974 TR6s
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had
> a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of engine side viewer no meter unit1.JPG]

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.

From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 12:18:57 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?

From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/

From malaboge at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 18:52:26 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
In-Reply-To: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <8CA3030BB6E52BF-904-3700@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com>

Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with?87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers



Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


________________________________________________________________________
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From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 20:51:30 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:51:30 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080128.225130.16373.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com>

Sorry, but I never had an 87mm engine on a dyno with the webers on it.
Joe(B)

-- malaboge at aol.com wrote:
Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with 87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
                  Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since
Ihave been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM
manifoldfrom Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would
offer themto the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted
for 87mmpistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with
differentjetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm
pistons on thedyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.
Joe(B)_____________________________________________________________Trick out
your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click
now!http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH
7GqcrgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/_______________________________________________h
ttp://www.team.net/donate.htmlFot mailing
listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fotMore new
features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on how to become certified as a project
management professional.
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uWf8Pw1YcyuWwFU0Gyf6Uit0/

From quicktr4 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 23:40:15 2008
From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:40:15 -0800
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
References: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <001c01c86241$cfd61810$c6fee747@quickfure2vk6w>

in the mid 60's My Dad ran with the  cal auto team on the west coast. they 
stoped by chevron on the way to the track and filled up with white pump 100 
or 101 octane if I remember.there oil of choise was castrol bean oil I realy 
miss the smell of that stuf at the track.  Jeff
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings


>I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were 
>used
> in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s 
> up
> through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 

From mediehljr at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 29 04:49:08 2008
From: mediehljr at yahoo.com (Ed Diehl)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:49:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <325574.86106.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all, micrometers are very accurate, plastigauge is not!  Cheers, Ed.
Ed Diehl

Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net> wrote:  The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge. So
far I have not found any discrepancies. Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot



Ed Diehl
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan 29 05:38:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:38:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>

I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can 
buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is 
there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive 
applications?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6

From henry at henryfrye.com  Tue Jan 29 05:42:55 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:42:55 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>

My machine shop uses the mic method only.

I assemble all my own motors, and once asked if I should check with
plasticgauge. His answer was a resounding NO.

I have had these guys call me to tell me the bearings I supplied were no
good, too much clearance. They were new old stock Vandervells. I had to
either find new bearings or pay to have all big ends resized, line bore
the block, etc. We were talking about less than 1/2 a thou!

Nine years of racing, more motor rebuilds than I care to think about,
never a bottom end/oil related issue. Every main bearing looked like it
could be reused, some rod bearings have shown signs of wear, but never
even close to failure. You should get the bearings back marked where
they get reinstalled, and you will see little superficial scratches
where the inside mic was used. I always smile when I see those scratches
on teardown!

Yes, I am knocking on wood...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Janzen
> Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
>
> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or
> mains, torques the caps and uses an inside micrometer to
> check bearing clearances before installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have
> to use plastigauge.
> What says the group?

From spreiss at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 21:54:42 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:54:42 +1100
Subject: [Fot] great photos
Message-ID: <003801c86233$10b969e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Want to see some great photographs of vintage race cars of all stripes? Go to
www.brmmbrmm.com/CastrolR.
Steve P.

From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 16:07:44 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for Mike Cook
Message-ID: <005801c862cb$c23f4a70$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

Mike, Ted Schumacher suggested I contact you.  Please drop me an e-mail.
Thanks!

From budscars at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 19:51:37 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:51:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] racing friends
Message-ID: <000f01c862eb$08852800$0302a8c0@Bud>

'Side By Side...as We Slide...Trusting Friends...What a Ride'
Hi Gang
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21

From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 29 21:18:45 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <BLU127-W42E6361BE9BB5F56CB1BEA8C360@phx.gbl>

Allan Washatko wrote:

> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?

I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
stuff too.

Shane Ingate in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 07:31:46 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:31:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - "The Legends Speak" - September 2008 Friday
 Afternoon
Message-ID: <bc0.25f100d1.34d1e452@cs.com>

FoT,

The Village of Watkins Glen has a forum at 3:00PM in Lafayette Park on Friday 
afternoon.  This year The LEGENDS SPEAK panel will be made up of current and 
former Friends of Triumph.    (TBA)

If your schedule allows, this will be the place to be....wearing your new FOT 
Shirts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------

<A HREF="http://websearch.cs.com/cs/boomframe.jsp?query=grand+Prix+Festival&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D53175234cfb894c5%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dgrand%2BPrix%2BFestival%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DCSroll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%2F">Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen</A>
 
The Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen presented by Chemung Canal Trust 
Company . A celebration of our heritage of road racing, come share our memories!

http://www.grandprixfestival.com/ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

This weekend is far more than a vintage race weekend. It is a celebration of 
our Triumphs made possible by The Village of Watkins Glen and the SVRA.

Special Thanks to Classic Motorsports magazine.....

Joe Alexander

    
   </HTML>

From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 08:51:06 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:51:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
References: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <001801c86357$ed623500$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Try:

Coil Spring Specialties
632 Bertrand
ST. Mary's, KS 66536
Phone 785-437-2025

You will need to give them a complete specification on what you want (coil
diameter, height, spring rate, etc) but they are extremely reasonable.

I had a pair of coils made for my Spit and my total cost with shipping was
$142.47  back in 2002.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:38 AM
Subject: [Fot] Springs


> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6

From RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu  Wed Jan 30 08:54:34 2008
From: RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu (Richard Junkermeier)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:54:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] (no subject)
Message-ID: <A69D98229727EF49861D0B7C17BF28AB095FA069@LARNPMAIL01.admin.wyotech.net>

Hi  I talked to BJ dragger at Draco springs in Houston texas at last years
PRI show they do a lot of the springs for Nascar teams. He said the would do
any size and length and rate springs we wanted I have tried Eibach and
several others and they only would do common sizes they stocked Draco seemed
very helpful www.dracospring.com

 

Richard Junkermeier

Chassis Fabrication & High Performance Engines Instructor

WyoTech

(307) 755-2443

rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu <mailto:rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu> 

www.wyotech.com <http://www.wyotech.com> 

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:10:39 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:10:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] New Planned Registration for Watkins Glen-September - Spitfire
Message-ID: <d47.1eeb0e78.34d1fb7f@cs.com>

Tom Strange,

Please add Al Lessard of Quebec to the list of intended entries. His 
information is below.

Thanks! 

Joe Alexander


> TKS Joe. 
>  
> Just received my new engine one wk ago.
> I will be in Mosport.......... at the Festival in June and my most important 
> event will be Watkins Glen Sept 3-7-08, a first visit.
> Please keep me posted.
>  
> AL.
>  Alcide Lessard, Varac # 04 
> 576, Terrasse Cyr. 
> Laval,   QC. H7X 2H8 
> SPITFIRE
> photoboat at videotron.ca
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>

From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:24:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <cbe.1fd88c64.34d1fec2@cs.com>

Thanks!

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>

From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................

From Billb at bnj.com  Wed Jan 30 12:54:16 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>

If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the  
balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to  
smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)  
flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with  
CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing  
else, it doesn't hurt.
Bill

On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual  
> SU
> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My  
> fabricator
> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every  
> car with
> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him  
> to build
> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault  
> powered
> Bunce Buck.........................
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com

From kaskas at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 13:58:23 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:58:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
	<0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c86382$da5a2be0$d214c548@RW>

With S.U. carbs, yes, with the Webers no need for in effect you have a 
separate carburetor for each port..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: <dos_gusanos at msn.comdos_gusanos@msn.com>
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Manifold Question


> If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the
> balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to
> smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)
> flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with
> CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing
> else, it doesn't hurt.
> Bill
>
> On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
> <dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual
>> SU
>> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My
>> fabricator
>> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every
>> car with
>> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him
>> to build
>> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
>> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault
>> powered
>> Bunce Buck.........................
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.

From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/

From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................

From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com

From tedtsimx at bright.net  Wed Jan 30 18:29:20 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:29:20 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131012920.LJWD2859.invictus@[209.143.0.76]>

One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have 1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair runs around $300 or higher.  Ted
> 
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue Jan 29, 11:18 PM
> To: <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> Allan Washatko wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> > buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> > there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> > applications?
> 
> I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
> you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
> stuff too.
> 
> Shane Ingate in NM
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
> http://biggestloser.msn.com/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From Catpusher at aol.com  Wed Jan 30 19:24:39 2008
From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:24:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] TR2-4A valve guide R&R
Message-ID: <c3a.2ac7a770.34d28b67@aol.com>

I always carried drifts that fit in and on the guides, and used the copper 
knockoff hammer to carefully drift the guides out and in (you can deform them).  
The shock helps.
I highly recommend honing the guides after they are installed; I had too many 
failures with lesser
methods, and this recommendation is even stronger for non-cast-iron guides 
and race cams.
 
Hardy



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 09:43:48 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:43:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>

I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.

mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 10:35:27 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] What fun
Message-ID: <47A206DF.8020403@bradakis.com>

Looks like some odd server troubles cropped up last night,
I'm looking into it.

mjb.

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 13:33:05 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:33:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Further fun
Message-ID: <47A23081.8020206@bradakis.com>

I think I have the Team.Net mail lists working again.

mjb.

From gaf3 at charter.net  Thu Jan 31 15:28:46 2008
From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Mark
Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at 
harbor freight.
They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an 
outside micrometer to take your measurement.
They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things 
like valve guide dimensions (id).
I have been using them for years.
But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
Glenn Franco
72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's

From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:33:34 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:33:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311730280.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.

I absolutely agree. I just got a set of these recently because my 
machinist retired. He used to measure my stuff for free ('cause he knew 
I'd have him machine the stuff). But the telscope gauges are 
awesome. For $60, you're in fat city. I got a set from MSC.

I haven't used plastigauge for years, though. Maybe I'm just lazy. But I 
do measure things. And re-measure.

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Thu Jan 31 15:36:08 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:36:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill

From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 15:43:08 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8645a$a6ed4160$0202a8c0@newcomputer>

As will Coil Spring Specialties that I referred to in an earlier reply.  In
fact I believe that all they do is custom springs to order.

Joe C. 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G
Rosenbach
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:36 PM
To: tedtsimx at bright.net
Cc: hottr6 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net; awashatko at wi.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:44:36 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:44:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311740260.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:

> It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> comprehensive line in stock.
> A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> multi-diameter winding?

I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.

If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
changes what options you have for spring rates.

regards,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Billb at bnj.com  Thu Jan 31 16:21:52 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>

I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!

I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.

On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>
>> mjb.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>
>>
>>
> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.
> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
> like valve guide dimensions (id).
> I have been using them for years.
> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
> Glenn Franco
> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com

From kaskas at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 16:27:27 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:27:27 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local><47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
	<47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
	<56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c86460$d75ca470$d214c548@RW>

Hear this , now hear this. Yes, Bill.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: "Glenn Franco" <gaf3 at charter.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
> gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
> you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
> spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
> perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
> approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
> consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
> quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!
> 
> I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
> than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
> accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
> check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.
> 
> On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:
> 
>> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>>
>>> mjb.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Mark
>> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
>> harbor freight.
>> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
>> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
>> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
>> like valve guide dimensions (id).
>> I have been using them for years.
>> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
>> Glenn Franco
>> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> 
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Thu Jan 31 13:18:56 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:18:56 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <25398DA5A1914CE890F9568937471F57@Mobil>

You are in search for me?
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tony Drews
  To: triumph_marx at freenet.de
  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:40 AM
  Subject: Fwd: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx




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    Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:34 EST
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    Thanks!


    Joe Alexander
       </HTML>
    _______________________________________________
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From DSPGTi at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 19:29:56 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:29:56 EST
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <ccc.288f977c.34d3de24@aol.com>

For inside measurements I would only trust a precision micrometer, frequently 
calibrated, in the hands of an experienced user. We are looking for less than 
a half of a thousands. One or two ten thousands should be the tolerance. 
Chinese micrometers from Horrible Freight are good for estimates and surveying on 
tear down but I would never trust them for assembly. I leave the accuracy for 
the machinist and double check that I'm not screwing up with plastigauge.
 
Dave Y





**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan 31 19:40:15 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:40:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080201024015.TKLA2859.invictus@[209.143.0.77]>

Bob, right you are.  Std "size" for coil overs is 2.5".  TR3 - 6 coils are 4".  Hyper coil and all the othe mfg's cannot go to a magic box and come up with any "inexpensive" spring unless it is a commonly used size.  We have abouyt 1000 springs a  year madae for us.  Dpoing custom springs is not cheap.  Especially if you need the spring mfg. to do all the engineering - load, coil bind, coil defelection, how accurate do you want variation (our springs are+=/- 2%) etc.  UK springs can vary as mcuh as 10%. Ted
> 
> From: Robert Lang <lang at isis.mit.edu>
> Date: Thu Jan 31, 5:44 PM
> To: William G Rosenbach <wgrosenbach at juno.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net,  awashatko at wi.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:
> 
> > It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> > custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> > comprehensive line in stock.
> > A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> > would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> > multi-diameter winding?
> 
> I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
> Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.
> 
> If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
> springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
> of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
> that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
> list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
> changes what options you have for spring rates.
> 
> regards,
> rml
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
> Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
> Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 03:14:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:14:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>

Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
    who.


    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 07:38:27 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:38:27 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <F65CD6DF9F874E4997146A4B2C8788A4@Mobil>

I tried to answer the people who asked me about the AE chains but I'm blocked
as spam.

So it's not my unpoliteness it is a technical issue that I cannot answer
directly.

comcast.net does block me and some others too.

Chris


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Tue Jan  1 08:12:44 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:12:44 GMT
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>

That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed (as
had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

-- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
   who.


   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click to compare life insurance rates.  Great rates, quick and easy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmNsDeQxlyGUzgoGN7li7Cc2
m1USDiHRovLIlGgmdrgHZBFD/


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:03:06 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:03:06 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <B00ACF5993534B71888516E287AC2529@Mobil>

The AE chain is very tight fit. I hardly can install the cam wheel.
After running the chain a little while installing is getting a little easier.
We have a very good quality chain manufacturer here in Germany but their
chains are a little longer. When installed they hang through like a worn out
chain. Very sad that I cannot use that wonderful chain.
But the AE chain is good enough for racing purpose. I replace them after 2-3
years of racing.


Chris

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joe Boruch
  To: chris at tr4-racing.de
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


  That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed
(as had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

  -- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
  Maybe you chain is too long?
  I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

  Never had a broken tensioner.

  Cheers
  Chris
     Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
  timing
     chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
  with
     this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
  was
     used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
  from
     the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
  from
     who.


     Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
  am
     doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru,
but
     rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
  designed
     tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


  _____________________________________________________________
  Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.


From kenandtweety at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  1 09:08:53 2008
From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting
In-Reply-To: <4779737A.6000100@charter.net>
Message-ID: <394579.4465.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Glenn,

I was a tech in the trenches of a dealership. I should
have made that distinction. I am still employed as a
service quality tech. Which means I get to test drive
when the need arises, anything from an Omni to a
Viper. 
As an introduction of myself to the group, which I
don't believe has been done, I am the keeper of the
flame in the Don Brick TR4. My son Jonathan owns the
car. It is in the process of freshening up. 
I have been quietly gathering tips on preparation of
TRs from the vast experience and minds of FOTers since
being nominated to the list.
I purchased my first sports car in 1958. A '56 TR3. I
joined the TSOA and still have a few copies of the
newsletter. I ran my first race in '59 on an airport
course in Vishi, Mo. The racing virus has been in my
blood ever since. It did lay dormant from '64 to '90.
My current street use sports car is a '57 TR3A. My
racing wheels however since completition of a total
vintage race preparation, has been one of those pesky
Morris Minis. A '61 Mini Minor prepared to Cooper S
specs.
Our plans are to get the TR4 back on the track and
possibly to Watkins Glen with me as driver if Jonathan
can't swing it.
By the way my dad bought a new Ferguson TO20 tractor
that I began driving when I was ten. So consider me
one of the first British tractor engine drivers in the
group. Ha!

Ken Suhre

--- Glenn Franco <gaf3 at charter.net> wrote:

> Right on Ken
> Where were you a tech for Chrysler in Detroit or in
> a dealership.
> I retired a year ago from Jeep Truck Engineering in
> Detroit.
> Glenn Franco
> Spit racer and several TR's
> 
> Ken Suhre wrote:
> > Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38
> years, I
> > have a pretty good understanding of emission
> systems
> > on automobiles.
> >
> > The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is
> what
> > controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the
> > intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve
> that
> > only allows flow when vacum is applied as the
> engine
> > is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a
> > filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually
> > through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a
> vee
> > type engine.
> >
> > The charcoal canister is there only to recover
> fuel
> > vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one.
> > When the engine is running above an idle these
> vapors
> > are purged from the charcoal by the intake
> manifold
> > vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control
> the
> > amount of flow.
> >
> > Probably boring information to most vintage
> racers.
> > But I just had to try to clear up the confusion.
> >
> > Ken Suhre
> > <I believe that when a closed
> >  system
> > was required by emmission control regulations, the
> > pop-off valve was
> > employed to direct venting to the intake manifold
> when
> > the vehicle is
> > stationary, and to the carbon canister when the
> > vehicle is in motion.
> >  Please
> > correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the
> > carbon canister a
> >  part of
> > scheduled maintenance?)
> >
> > Steve P>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:33:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:33:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>

I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get them.
'Maybe Moss has them in USA?

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


> Happy New Year Chris!
> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in my  
> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
> Thanks
> Jerry Barr
> 
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
> 
>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>
>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
>> timing
>>    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not  
>> all
>> with
>>    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while  
>> this one
>> was
>>    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These  
>> have been
>> from
>>    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which  
>> one was
>> from
>>    who.
>>
>>
>>    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or  
>> what I
>> am
>>    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing  
>> thru, but
>>    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>> designed
>>    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 10:04:10 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:04:10 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
	<94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>
	<D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
Message-ID: <EC52C91FEBA24A12A65B0D4DE68F2379@Mobil>

I explain a little further.

I have a dealer in Germany as sponsor for my racing.
Deal is that I get some parts for free and has to return a report about the 
quality.
>From this reports and their own testing they choose which parts they sell.
They are always searching for good quality parts.
They are not the cheapest on the market but I like their attitude as a 
dealer.
http://www.british-car-parts.de/

If you can't get good parts in USA maybe I can help you out?

Cheers
Chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


>I haven't tried Moss but I got a chain for my GT6 from Victoria  British 
>and it was some strange third world thing that looked like it  was made 
>with a hammer and chisel.
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>
>> I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get  them.
>> 'Maybe Moss has them in USA?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Barr"  <jerrybarr at charter.net>
>> To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
>>
>>
>>> Happy New Year Chris!
>>> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in  my 
>>> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
>>> Thanks
>>> Jerry Barr
>>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>>>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>>>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>>>
>>>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Chris
>>>>   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another  broken
>>>> timing
>>>>   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken  (not 
>>>> all
>>>> with
>>>>   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while   this 
>>>> one
>>>> was
>>>>   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These   have 
>>>> been
>>>> from
>>>>   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which   one 
>>>> was
>>>> from
>>>>   who.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others,  or 
>>>> what I
>>>> am
>>>>   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing 
>>>> thru, but
>>>>   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>>>> designed
>>>>   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 10:33:25 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:33:25 EST
Subject: [Fot] WATKINS GLEN HOTELS
Message-ID: <cb7.1edc11be.34abd365@cs.com>

FoT,

I expect to talk to Andrea Stowe of the Hampton Inn about a second hotel, 
that is one of their properties. Will have more to report in a few days.  

I had no idea, when I started this, that entries and attendance would be so 
huge. 

In the meantime, this offering comes from Joe B  (Joe is going to run his TR3 
with us).  read below. It is new hotel opening in 2008.

Joe, I stopped by the village of Watkins Glen yesterday and there is a new 
hotel at the north end of downtown on the lake that is to be completed early in 
2008.  It is partly closed to the weather already, thus looks to be ahead of 
schedule.  It may be worth looking into, and is in a much better location than 
the Hampton Inn.  Their website is <A HREF="http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/">http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/</A>.  
There is an online form to complete for an RFP.  Not sure how many rooms we need 
or what dates you specified, or I would have submitted it.  
Joe(B)
   </HTML>


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 11:37:06 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:37:06 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>

Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere in 
the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring my 
friends here.

CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on to 
a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity to 
smoke a little Peyote, too.

The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none of 
them inhale. 

And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great Howard 
Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of stuff 
happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)

So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting.  These 
guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The real 
truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from Chicago or 
Milwaukee. 

During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming to 
hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far more 
entertaining.

Joe A


   </HTML>


From budscars at msn.com  Tue Jan  1 12:34:14 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:34:14 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
References: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP14C7C1185A03E5D6A592B2C6510@CEZ.ICE>

AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <N197TR4 at cs.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths


> Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere 
> in
> the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring 
> my
> friends here.
>
> CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on 
> to
> a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity 
> to
> smoke a little Peyote, too.
>
> The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none 
> of
> them inhale.
>
> And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great 
> Howard
> Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of 
> stuff
> happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)
>
> So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting. 
> These
> guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The 
> real
> truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from 
> Chicago or
> Milwaukee.
>
> During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming 
> to
> hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far 
> more
> entertaining.
>
> Joe A
>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 12:45:01 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:45:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <c3d.28f7871d.34abf23d@cs.com>

it took me a moment, Racer Bud....but finally an image of Howard Dean emerged.

Good one!


> AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
> WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
> CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
> Racer Bud
> 

   </HTML>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Tue Jan  1 15:08:53 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:08:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve cover venting
Message-ID: <200801012209.m01M8x2K222793@ns3.geneseo.net>

The major hot rod suppliers sell a kit for this. It includes a pair 
of pipes to weld into your exhaust headers, two one-way valves to 
prevent backfires from blowing off your valve cover, and some misc 
parts. Real cheap at something like $50..

I did this early on in my vintage career and when I mentioned it on 
the net I got royally flamed. It's against the SCCA rules. I could 
never understand the objection - after all, if you blow an engine, 
you put the oil directly on the track. I never saw oil coming out of 
my tailpipe. I took mine off - Joe left his on and continues to leak 
less oil with the kit than without.

More substantive info, however, comes from my local speed shop. They 
run a NHRA national championship engine and do a lot of dyno work. 
They recently tested two systems that do this. One system uses a GM 
air pump and pulls a negative pressure -- on their engine it added 20 
hp to a 500 hp engine. That kit is commercially available for about 
$500. They also tried the exhaust-sucked system and found it added no hp.

I still like it, though. Data be damned.

uncle jack 


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Tue Jan  1 22:17:07 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:17:07 +1000
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
this thread. 
Owing an engine shop means I have a bit of a chance to experiment. We have
made various mods on a single 2500 head (casting # 219021) and flow tested
each one of them. At the simplest end, it was dead stock, followed by
various versions of most folk call a "port & polish". The final end of the
head was fully downdrafted, with the head chopped away and a 35mm pipe
pressed in  from the top corner of the head downwards at about 60 degrees. A
bit of port putty and some die grinder work, made quite a nice job of the
merge.
In all cases we had the stock valves and factory width seats. The guides
were progressively shortened as the porting got more radical.
The stock head kept flowing to 0.500" and rapidly flattened
The port work increased the flow by about 20% up to 0.300" lift where the
results started to come together.  At 0.450" lift, the fully downdrafted
port flowed EXACTLY the same as the stock port. 
This tells me the stock valves/seats/chamber etc are the limiting factor in
max flow, not the ports or lift. 
I now have some Titanium race valves with 7mm stems to trial. I'll reduce
the seat width and further modify the chamber and see if I can get any
better results.
There have been a few comments in this thread about roller rockers and cam
lift. Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then the
only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this. The biggest influences are the
diameter of the cam follower and the mass being moved.  The stock lifter can
be enlarged (considerable cost as machining is time consuming) and very
small changes make a lot of difference. Because of this, just reading
published cam data is often a waste of time. Any reputable cam grinder will
advise how fast the cam acceleration ramp can be for any given lifter
diameter. Anything that can be done to lighten the valve train is a good
thing.
In relation to the prior comments about dyno results being used to
prove/disprove the worth of roller rockers, I have to cast some doubts over
making definitive statement on measurements of 1-2%. Only the very best
temperature and humidity controlled dyno cells can achieve such
repeatability. We operate both engine and chassis dynos, and generally
ignore results unless they show more than 3% change, once corrections are
made for ambient temperature and humidity. For example, when testing a 2500
race engine, a change in engine water or oil temperature of about 10degress,
can make a 3-5% difference in max power. Some other engines . like the well
known 4AG Toyota, will show much larger swings from temperature changes.
Because of this, comparisons have to be made under as near to identical
circumstances as possible. Peak power readings can rarely achieve what you
need to know, so you have to run acceleration tests and load cycles to make
valid comparisons.
I'd be happy to swap real results with anyone else who might have the same.
I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
experimented with larger valves and lifters.

Terry O'Beirne


From kaskas at cox.net  Tue Jan  1 23:04:31 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Fot] '63 Sebring Race Video ...
References: <018001c84cee$2785b2a0$0202a8c0@DDRC6B81>
Message-ID: <043e01c84d05$577ffd00$d214c548@RW>

There are a couple of shot of my team cars at the Webster turn. White TR-4
coupes


  Two (2) minutes of amateur 16mm film footage shot at the '63 Sebring Race.
1st location is the bleachers at the MG bridge. 2nd location is from the
bleachers at the Webster turn(s).

  http://www.corvette-videos.com/watch/?vid=7778


From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 03:42:04 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:42:04 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA73C@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:30:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:30:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>

Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger
 


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan  2 08:40:48 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002301c84d55$d9174940$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Bill,
Best Buy has one TomTom model on sale for $150 that has the features that
you are interested in.  Unfortunately, They are out of stock for online
sales and are only available in selected stores.  My local store is not one
of them.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:45:46 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:45:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all 
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 08:50:59 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:50:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
Message-ID: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that it works better than the Megellan that I also have. 
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>> 
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes 
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:48:18 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:48:18 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

wow, great data. I don't have a dyno yet, and my flow bench is still just a
set of plans. But when I do, we'll certainly talk.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry and Cindy
Sent: Tue 1/1/2008 9:17 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 08:55:05 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c84d57$d82f4850$0301000a@Chowdown>

One of them uses the voice of "MR-T" to give directions. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10038326/



~S


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and 
> traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much 
> this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards 
> a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest 
> to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:55:23 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
References: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets very
well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our attention to
it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Wed Jan  2 09:09:04 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Terry,
Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this.
Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
as further?
Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
difference.
Thanks,
Bill


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 09:16:03 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:16:03 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA781@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Ok, I already did privately.

I bought a Garmin Nuvi in Wisconsin on the first leg of the All Aluminum Tour
when I got lost trying to find Elkhart Lake. I figured it would pay for itself
in diesel saved. It's done better than that. I got the cheapest one because I
also didn't need MP3, cupholder or massage unit. My wife has a super-expensive
GPS system in her Bentley with five or six CDs of supporting data. It sucks by
comparison to the Nuvi. Better directions, better features, etc., etc. And you
can stick it in your pocket and take it from vehicle to vehicle and even on
your bicycle (though an iPhone with google maps is way better for finding
stuff when you're on a bicycle or walking).


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Gt6steve at aol.com
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 7:45 AM
To: spitlist at cox.net; BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:46:32 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>

Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and 
the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box 
and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.

In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
the internet for downloading.

and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local 
police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in 
the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the 
thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the 
windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break 
in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a street light.

uncle jack 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 09:53:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:53:09 EST
Subject: [Fot]  GPS Products
Message-ID: <c17.2972bba8.34ad1b75@cs.com>

I got a cheapie off of eBay....

I wouldnt leave home without one, now that I have it. Then they offered 
specials this Christmas for $150 on a couple of brands.

There is an enormous amount of information contained in that little plastic 
box.

It is not a total replacement for a good Atlas, but almost.

Joe A




> Amici...
> 
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not 
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for 
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit 
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like 
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to 
> me.
> 
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
> 
> Bill Dentinger
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>


From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 09:58:23 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <14312380.3573791199293196304.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net>

Jack;
     I have a Megellan 360 and it can be updated thru there web site via a UBS cable.

Dean T.



>From: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 10:46:32 CST
>To: fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution

>Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
>great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
>guys). >
>In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
>the internet for downloading.


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with 
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved 
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4 
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much 
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of 
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve 
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that 
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results 
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jerrybarr at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:06:53 2008
From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:06:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>

One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 10:32:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>

Bill Dentin asked:

> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.

Shane Ingate in NM

PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
saving for the enclosed trailer.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007


From benchmarkmap at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:33:07 2008
From: benchmarkmap at charter.net (Fred & Carolyn Easton)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:33:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c84d65$8a238b40$6401a8c0@INTERNET>

As a another word of caution, we purchased a Garmin Nuvi 700 series from 
Best Buy only to find out you cannot navigate to a programmed destination 
and view your speed at the same time.  You can view speed if you don't 
navigate.  With our TR6 having different tires, OD transmission, and 
infinity diff, our Speedo is, to say the least, inaccurate.  We were 
planning on the mph aspect of the gps unit being a help.

We decided to take this back to Best Buy and were informed of the 15% 
restock fee.  This amounted to $105!!!!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
Cc: "Friends of Triumph" <FOT at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


> One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road
> or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in
> Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
> On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
>> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
>> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
>> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
>> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
>> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>>
>> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
>> the internet for downloading.
>>
>> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
>> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
>> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
>> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
>> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
>> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a
>> street light.
>>
>> uncle jack
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From greenman62 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 11:05:59 2008
From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:05:59 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU129-W15881697F5E49478408D95D2520@phx.gbl>

> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Yeah... and then not askc the locals for directions...

...not that it would help. I once asked a beat cop in NYC where I could find
the Illustrators Club and gave him the street address... He had no idea. We
were just one block away.

Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois

That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory...



> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com
> To: billdentin at aol.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> Bill Dentin asked:
>
> > I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
> > Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.
>
> Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
> This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
> Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
> off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
> My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.
>
> Shane Ingate in NM
>
> PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
> saving for the enclosed trailer.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:24:10 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:24:10 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <bef.1d6be314.34ad30ca@cs.com>

Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander   </HTML>


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:31:19 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:31:19 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander    
_______________________________________________


Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
 
We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test  
day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but that  
hasn't been decided.
 
2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:36:53 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:36:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - John McCue
Message-ID: <bd6.240a8d49.34ad33c5@cs.com>

JOHN McCUE              slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net     

Please second John McCue.

He is preparing a GT6 for combat in the ranks of SVRA....about a year away, 
so he can use our help and encouragment.

Presently he campaigns a Midget, so I figure he is moving up.

Thanks,

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:58:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:58:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d0e.1b9c3a92.34ad38d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/02/2008 12:25:10 PM Central Standard Time, 
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:


> Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.
> 
> I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
> 
> not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day
> 
> Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?
> 
> If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion, if any.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.
> 

Joe...

Last year (2007) I seem to recall there were 'extra-cost' practice/test 
sessions run on Wednesday.  The regular group sessions began on Thursday and are 
included in the entry fee.  The TR3 & TR4s (for instance) ran in Group THREE, 
which had two sessions on Thursday, one on Friday, two sessions on Saturday, and 
one on Sunday.  There was also a one hour (extra cost) enduro on Friday.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From goodparts at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 14:44:27 2008
From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:44:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>

Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.

Richard Good
Good Parts

William G Rosenbach wrote:

>Terry,
>Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>therebye
>having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>arrangement has little to do with this.
>Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>as further?
>Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>difference.
>Thanks,
>Bill
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Wed Jan  2 14:35:34 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:35:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread that stops when fully
threaded into the float bowl. I know this now because I determined that
the bolt broke because I had added a lock washer to the mix and the bolt
was not fully threaded into the bowl, leaving some thread unsupported by
a slightly loose float bowl. I didn't have a spare so I tried a simple
1/4" bolt but without the stop I had to tighten it a little tighter than
I wanted resulting in the dreaded foamy fuel syndrome. I was lucky to
find a proper bolt that evening but my backup plan was to use some brass
tubing bushes I found at Lowes over the bolt and fill the cavity with
silicone sealant. In my hunting for a proper shouldered bolt I learned
that some models of HS carburetors have rubber angle adapters where the
TR4A version is a solid piece of aluminum. I am now thinking of
following through on my homemade solution because he silicone would aid
in eliminating vibration radiating through to the float bowl. My
question to the group is that I'm wondering if others have had this
problem?.

BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:39:00 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
In-Reply-To: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEIEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

The only thing to be careful of when using a laptop
in the car is if you use a power inverter, unplug it
before restarting your car. I killed my Compaq last
fall when I restarted the car and a surge over-powered
the power supply.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
tr3a58 at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:51 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: GPS Products]


>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map
people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of
the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out
www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that
it works better than the Megellan that I also have.
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear
fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and
broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>>
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:42:56 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:42:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Or if you have a problem like me. Once when using my Garmin
on the way back from Alabama, I followed the instructions
and it wanted to send me on a 'shortcut' to bypass an
interchange in Louisville. If I had followed the instructions,
I would have driven from Louisville to Lexington on side
roads before the next opportunity to get on the x-way.

I have also had problems when, after removing the batteries
for an extended period of non-use, I forgot to reset the mode,
and it wanted me to follow footpaths and trails instead of the
x-way.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
Jerry Barr
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:07 PM
To: Jack W. Drews
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From niteseeker at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 16:22:23 2008
From: niteseeker at aol.com (dick ross)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:22:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] gps
Message-ID: <B24E724F-0423-47B6-B468-77D9591E8558@aol.com>

Here are a couple that were in my mail box this evening.

NAVGTOUR NT-147 GPS  $119

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205810212&adid=17653&dcaid=17653


GARMIN street Pilot c330 GPS  $154

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?EDP=40155795&Source=EWB010208EML


From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 16:54:25 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:25 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
In-Reply-To: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAF@server.Triumph.local>

Gee, excuse me for assuming we would have the same schedule as last
year...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JWoesvra at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions
>
> Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
>
> We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an
> extra cost test day open to everyone. We may have one session
> for TR's late in the day but that hasn't been decided.
>
> 2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Wed Jan  2 17:41:22 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:41:22 GMT
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>

Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

-- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:
Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling,
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to
me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click now to choose from thousands of designs for your checks!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmR6zGFeHhRlGIooqSuaH9EB
tRR7rTO75T2eBqCakd5zGKlO/


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:39:20 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that I
loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to use it. I
went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone to play
with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about what I
had paid for it, and never looked back.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:44:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net><20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
	<200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA786@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Years ago  a sharp machinist in Long Beach, CA did what he called a spherical
seat on the intake of my Matchless G80CS desert sled (single cylinder 500cc
motorcycle) Gave it a noticeable power boost with no apparent change in the
power band. I always figure an improvement you can feel with the seat of your
pants is at least 10%. The "spherical seat" was just a curved seat--no
angles--that was lapped by hand to seat the valve.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Jack W. Drews
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:59 AM
To: Terry and Cindy; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 18:56:46 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:56:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com
  >
References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>
Message-ID: <200801030156.m031uqdx341824@ns3.geneseo.net>

I had the same problem, and then found that others had this problem 
as well. I solved mine by drilling out the carb body and float bowl 
and putting in a larger bolt, hoping for a longer duration between failures.

At 03:35 PM 1/2/2008, Kramer, Robert wrote:
>I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
>special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread .........

.........

>BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
>with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

The worst part is it screws up the mixture and you can't drive fast 
enough to get away from the fire.


>Bob Kramer
>Sales Manager
>RDO Equipment Co.
>16415 North IH 35
>Pflugerville, TX 78660
>512-272-4141
>Fx 512-272-9365
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

uncle jack 


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 19:45:07 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:45:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that 
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to 
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone 
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about 
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the 
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down 
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get 
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my 
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 19:59:07 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:59:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080103025807.0B8BE187A1A@autox.team.net>

He has - had an Apple laptop of some sort with him on the All Aluminum Tour...

- Tony

At 08:45 PM 1/2/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Bill,
>
>You should try their computers.
>
>Allen
>
>On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
>
> > The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> > smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> > I
> > loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> > use it. I
> > went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> > to play
> > with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> > pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> > what I
> > had paid for it, and never looked back.


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 19:54:19 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA788@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I switched from a PC to a Mac about a year ago. Impossible for a diehard
windows geek to do, I thought. But I wouldn't touch a PC now, except to run
the few programs I really need that aren't available on a Mac. I bought a
Macbook Pro because I liked the case and the overall design--like nothing you
get for Windows. I expected to boot Windows all the time, but found myself
using it less and less. Now when I use any PC, especially one with Vista, I
wonder what the hell I was thinking.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference is simple. Macs work for you, PC's
work for Microsoft.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 6:45 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Wed Jan  2 20:13:10 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:13:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

I stand correcting......... for any given camshaft, the average valve velocity will change with a rocker ratio change. For example, if changing the rocker ratio increases valve lift to say 16mm instead of 13mm, then the average velocity increase is 16/13 or 12%.  this is because the lift occurs in the same time (cam/crank moves the same amount).
What I really should have said originally, is, the biggest useful influence over the rate of valve opening, is the camshaft, because flow testing suggests you need a big increase in rate of lift early in the cycle, not just averaged. 
I will take some measurements of cam rates on various Triumph cams and report back.
To the various folk who emailed me about lifters, I understand various sized lifters can be fitted---its just a case of boring out the 12 lifter bores (tedious job).  Cam grinders will specify the minimum cam follower diameter their cam will successfuly work on. The faster the acceleration rate of the cam, the larger the lifter diameter required. If you dont get the lifter diamter correct, the cam will edge ride. This means the lower edge of the lifter will try to dig into the cam, rather than ride up and over it.
I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data, or even what is the most agreeive cam people have found to work on stock lifters.
Terry O'Beirne


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 20:23:38 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:23:38 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Computers
Message-ID: <9a6f72dc820c4db3e3ac8736ae5273ae@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

Absolutely!
I own a 30 person architectural practice and we have been using Mac's 
since 1988. When we get a new machine, we just plug it in and start 
using it. They are very intuitive as you know which is exactly why we 
chose to go the Apple direction.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 20:34:49 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:34:49 EST
Subject: [Fot] Back on the Freinds of Triumph Mailing list for Bill Redinger
Message-ID: <d67.1fb62bc9.34adb1d9@cs.com>

Mark Bradakis,   Please pop Bill back on the FoT list.   He was accidently 
dropped.


 Bill Redinger          wredinger at oppd.com

For you that know Bill....he a Tireless Supporter of Triumph (which makes 
them hard to drive)....please welcome him back to the list.

Bill Redinger will be joining us at Watkins Glen in September, driving in 
from Nebraska.  

Tom Strange....you can add Bill to the list of attendees, too.

Thanks!       Joe A   </HTML>


From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 20:49:29 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:49:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS
Message-ID: <20080103034822.0AD9C1879E3@autox.team.net>

Original bounced - I was at 4345 bytes.

I don't have either of those units.  But, I know how to find 
reviews...  Go to www.amazon.com and search for the GPS unit(s) 
you're interested in.  There are many reviews there.  Both units had 
reviews comparing the two (interesting that they chose both of those 
units on both reviews).  Overall, people seem pleased with both, but 
report occasional directional glitches.  The TomTom is purported to 
have more complete maps, but sometimes try to send you on a wild 
goose chase.  The TomTom will not tell you to turn around on a 2 lane 
road if you miss a turn.  It seems to be up to you to figure that out.

I, like Jack and Joe, have the Magellan Roadmate 2000.  From what I 
read, Magellan is rated lower than Garmin or TomTom.  While my unit 
has a USB port and the ability to update firmware, no new maps have 
been released for it by Magellan.  The new interchange on 894 (?) 
through Milwaukee confuses it a bit, although it provides good enough 
directions that it all worked out OK.

The TomTom will give you spoken street names (sometimes garbled if it 
can't figure out how to pronounce them).  To me that's not a big 
deal.  I turn right when my Magellan tells me to turn right and all 
is generally well.  I find that it occasionally misses telling me to 
turn when I'm staying on the same "route" but the "route" bears right 
or left.  For interstate use it's flawless.

While I don't need the bells and whistles (MP3 player, slideshow, 
bluetooth, etc.), having a well stocked Points Of Interest (POI) 
database can be a valuable thing, especially once you've arrived at 
the race or are looking for a hotel midway there to spend the 
night.  Mine found the grocery store in Independence, Iowa.  But, it 
had no clue where the nearest Best Buy was in Seattle.

For trips to Mosport, having Canada maps would be nice.

So, in summary, the features I'd be looking for if I wanted to 
upgrade my Magellan:
updateable maps with a vendor who actually provides these updates
larger POI database
Potentially, Canada maps

I will say that after using my Magellan for a week, I wondered how 
I'd ever gotten along without it.  It TOTALLY took the stress out of 
driving around in Seattle.  I was in the HOV lane, and it had a weird 
exit between the regular lane and the HOV lane that I inadvertently 
took.  Normally that's an Oh SH*T moment, but it calmly told me to 
turn right and left until we were back on the highway.  Took less 
than 5 min and we were back in the HOV lane flying.

Also, the "shortest time" routes work well.  "Shortest distance" is 
probably questionable in any GPS unit.  "Least use of freeways" is 
the way to go when driving a convertible in the summertime.  My drive 
from Joe's wedding back home was glorious because of that unit.

One thing to note: <snip>

- Tony


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 21:17:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:17:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
Message-ID: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>

FoT,

Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world 
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to our 
world? 

John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com

John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored 
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a 
TV series.
Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the 
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.  
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

Joe Alexander    </HTML>


From jibjib at att.net  Wed Jan  2 22:44:16 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:44:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
	<2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <02fa01c84dcb$ae241800$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Henry,

We have a Volvo XC90 with a nav screen that rises up out of the top of the
dash into an awesome position; very well thought our and effective.  The
steering wheel has controls and a remote control works too.  Unfortunately,
the rest of the system, while not a bad system, is not up to the same level
of sophistication as are the better aftermarket units.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Henry Frye
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has the
built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto the
dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are, also
food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory nav
systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it presented
it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily the
fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until it gets
a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from perfect. Helen
tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's bearings, but did
eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be interested
to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in traffic
nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone has shown
much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to include
traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where you
are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 09:08:02 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:08:02 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1104189@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Our website is very old in website terms and is getting a revamp in
2008.
watch this space


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com <outbind://137/www.revingtontr.com>





________________________________

From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com]
Sent: 02 January 2008 15:55
To: Neil Revington; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications



Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets
very well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our
attention to it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Thu Jan  3 07:47:27 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:47:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
References: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c84e17$8fd27d50$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?  Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan and worked well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to attend!!

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: JWoesvra at aol.com
  To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions


  In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
  N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

  Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

  I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It
is
  not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

  Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

  If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

  Sorry for the confusion, if any.

  Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

  Joe Alexander
  _______________________________________________


  Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?

  We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test
  day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but
that
  hasn't been decided.

  2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.

  Jack Woehrle



  **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
  (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
  _______________________________________________
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  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:02:16 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:02:16 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d66.1fc0e6d8.34ae52f8@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 9:48:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jsnook at wcnet.org writes:

Hey  Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?   Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan  and worked 
well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could  not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the  featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to  attend!!


That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so  
can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and I've 
 only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan  3 08:18:20 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:18:20 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <cc1.263a6ca1.34ae56bc@cs.com>

Thanks Jeff!  

People were quite excited about having that option at Road America. It gets 
folks organized quickly in the paddock and the adrenaline pumping. A lot of 
grinning from gear to gear, as Kent Howard would say. We are also planning an 
informal gathering in the paddock, that evening.

Jack, I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this some thought.

Regards,

Joe A



> That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so 
> can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and 
> I've only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
>  
> jw
> 

   </HTML>


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:25:53 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:25:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <d01.20af7492.34ae5881@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 10:18:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Jack,  I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your  Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this  duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this  some thought.

Regards,

Joe A


We can do that. We can weed out the "cheaters" right there in front of  
everyone!
 
You said you had a tent. Can we use several stalls for tech and run them  
through tent? That would be better for us than trying to go to everyone's  
trailer.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 09:18:04 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:18:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:

> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!

> -- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:

rml

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
GIVE them the camera - then SELL 'EM A LOT OF FILM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan  3 09:34:25 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <003601c84e26$81132b20$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I have found that it is very difficult to determine beforehand the cost of
upgrading the maps for most of these units.  I think that is intentional
because it becomes a deterrant to anyone buying one of these things.

Joe C.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Lang" <lang at isis.mit.edu>
To: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products


> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
> > Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can
also
> > store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever
and
> > usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing
I have
> > been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.
Spend all
> > that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,
restaurants,
> > points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the
price of
> > the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!


From dave at microworks.net  Thu Jan  3 12:02:16 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:02:16 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <20080103190658.DEPW2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
aware of another car also wanting to pass.

This video starts on the approach to Turn 9 (uphill hairpin) where I 
checked my mirrors and I let a Porsche Cup Car pass my TR3 by staying 
deeper into the corner to let him stay on the line on exit.

The video them continues down the back straight and into the Oval 
where I am passed by two more Porsche Cup Cars on either side of me!

It is the top video on our TR Club website Gallery

http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22


From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 12:26:01 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:26:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <c32.222ff945.34ae90c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/03/2008 1:07:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
dave at microworks.net writes:


> I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
> and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
> weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
> the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
> track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
> aware of another car also wanting to pass.
> 

AMEN to that.  This is a particular issue with new racers.  There is a 
subconscious urge for new racers to 'get out of the way.'  Big mistake.  Critical to 
stay on the traditional line.  If you see a faster car coming, point to where 
you would prefer to be passed, but also stay on the line and be aware you 
might not see everyone who is coming.  

Another thing I like to tell new racers is, while it is important to watch 
your mirrors, it is even more important to be deciding where you should be going 
next.  I recommend quick periodic glances to the mirrors, then back to 'where 
am I going next.  New racers often are preoccupied with their mirrors (which 
can scare them to death), causing them to stray off the line.

Bill Dentinger
  


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From jfrymark at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 13:23:21 2008
From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:23:21 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <92A5491A-53FE-4CCE-B07D-440910051015@aol.com>

It's called "Schick-ing it to 'em".  Getting an aluminum radiator  
from TRF for Christmas. Any special issues mounting an electric fan?

John Frymark

On Jan 3, 2008, at 11:00 AM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
>> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It  
>> can also
>> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or  
>> whatever and
>> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only  
>> thing I have
>> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map  
>> update.  Spend all
>> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,  
>> restaurants,
>> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of  
>> the price of
>> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan  3 13:33:17 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>

Richard Good wrote:
> Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
>
> Richard Good
> Good Parts
>
> William G Rosenbach wrote:
>
>   
>> Terry,
>> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>> therebye
>> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>> arrangement has little to do with this.
>> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>> as further?
>> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>> difference.
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
overbore the lifter bores.  Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  3 14:22:24 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:22:24 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
Message-ID: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Hi, Everyone

And thanks to you Joe for arranging my re-admission. For those who have been
FOTers for some time and may remember me from years back, my world has changed
quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

In 2004 I re-married and for this august event two Triumphs played an active
part. My (then) 1974 2000 sedan took Liz from our home to the Register Office
for our ceremony and then my fuel injected sedan took us both to the party
afterwards - and then off on our honeymoon.

In 2005, I had a stroke but this wasn't anything to do with events the
previous year!

Since then, I've retired from paid work and now do more unpaid work than I
ever thought possible. The leisure times (some of them) are spent writing
stories with a Standard-Triumph flavour for the largest Triumph Club in the
UK. It has about 10,000 members in the UK and is very active on many different
fronts. When I'm not doing that, Liz and I spend as much time as we can in our
caravan (trailer) which comfortably sleeps four people and we go off at
weekends to somewhere different but never all that far from home. When we're
not living in our larger caravan, I'm working on another smaller one which
later this year will be used by people who can't afford a vacation but want to
get away somewhere. This is part of the charity (non-profit) I've established
that raises money for other charities and is an event organiser in its own
right. We do classic car road runs and fundraising events. Two of note in 2008
are getting blind people to drive a car on a private road and the other is a
one day road run in which more blind people will act as navigators for cars in
which they are passengers. We've done both events before and they not only
raise a lot of money but are great fun as well.

And then, as Joe commented, I'm busy planning the Triumph Trans-AmeriCan
Charity Drive in 2009 that will last about 9000 miles and finish at Triumphest
and coincide with the North American Triumph Challenge at the same venue. I'll
be doing that in a Stag. You'll find details at www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk
and there's a "Keep Informed" facility where you can receive email updates
from me as the planning gets closer and closer to reality.

'S good to be back

Cheers, Jonmac
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: N197TR4 at cs.com
  To: standardtriumph at btinternet.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:17 AM
  Subject: Please Welcome Back John Macartney (AKA JonMac)


  FoT,

  Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to
our world?


  John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com



  John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a
TV series.
  Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

  John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

  Joe Alexander


From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 14:52:38 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>

On our current race motor for the TR6 we bored the lifter holes for ford
lifters...Ted is correct...the lifter bores are not perpendicular to the
block face....What we did is used a CNC machine and wrote a program to do
the job...the blocks are between 1 and 2 thousands from one to another
using the locating tabs on the pan flange surface...aside from calculating
the degree of offset, each hole center was found, and lastly the lifter
directly in front of the cam drive needs to be moved forward about 25 thou
when using the 875 lifters...it is also important to do aprox. a .900 or so
cut initially in the very top of the bore to remove the webbing curve to
give a flat face to start the boring process and get a clean cut and not
destroy your bit...Chip


> [Original Message]
> From: Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>
> To: Richard Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> Date: 1/3/2008 3:58:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> Richard Good wrote:
> > Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> > times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> > installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> > cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> > 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> > 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
> >
> > Richard Good
> > Good Parts
> >
> > William G Rosenbach wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Terry,
> >> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
> >> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
> >> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
> >> therebye
> >> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
> >> arrangement has little to do with this.
> >> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as
well
> >> as further?
> >> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
> >> difference.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >>
> >> Fot mailing list
> >> Fot at autox.team.net
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >>     
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
> on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
> overbore the lifter bores.  Ted
>
> -- 
> Ted Schumacher
> tedtsimx at bright.net
> http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
> 108 S. Jefferson St.
> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
> Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
> Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
> Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan  3 14:49:07 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FW: Night Before Christmas?
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOFDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Just got this today, but thought this group wiuld enjoy it.

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the paddock,
Not a motor was stirring, not even an impact;
The stockings were hung by the pit fence with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;

The drivers were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of championships danced in their heads;
And mamma in her checkered flag, and I in my Bell,
Had just settled down for a long winter's spell,

When out on the grid there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
To the back of the trailer I flew like a shift,
Unlocked the rampdoor, and let down the lift.

The moon on the crest of the new-paved front straight,
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects so late,
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a formula car, screaming by in top gear.

Such a noise caused the chief steward to immediately arise,
And by the look on his face he had words for this guy,
He shouted aloud in his most gruff voice,
"It's quiet time now, GET OFF OF THE COURSE"!

Then sound control had been stirred from its slumber,
And yelled to the chief steward, "I've never seen such a DB number!"
The chief of tech said, upon seeing this fellow,
"I've never seen that car, and I know it has no annual".

The chief steward demanded to know this driver's intent,
To which registration replied, "Maybe he's a late registrant."
Suddenly timing and scoring appeared from yonder,
And chimed in "That car on course has no transponder."

Though I couldn't see the driver, he went by so quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than Schuey his crew they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, JACKMAN! now, TIRE CHANGER! now, CREWCHIEF and FUELMAN!
On, ENGINEER! on FABRICATOR! on, MANAGER and TIREMAN!
Beyond the tech shed! to base of the pit wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

As valves that before the busted cam fly,
When they meet with a piston, mount to the sky,
So to the base of the timing tower the crewman they flew,
With a hauler full of "go fast" bits, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a flash, I heard on the grid
The roaring and thunder that each piston did.
As I drew on my pitboard, and was turning about,
into Victory Lane, St. Nicholas had arrived, without doubt.

He was dressed all in Simpson, from his head to his boots,
And his suit was all tarnished with oil and soot;
A bundle of speed parts he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a vendor just opening his pack.

His face shield -- how it twinkled! his helmet decals shone!
His patches were like a mural, his name scripted like a pro!
His neck restraint was the best design we'd seen yet,
And his gloves and his boots were a perfectly matched set;

His tools spoke volumes, he used all that they had,
A mouse, a keyboard, a computer, and CAD;
This just confirmed what we already knew,
More than a great driver, he is a great designer too.

The parcels for the stockings that he brought along,
Dripped of technology that helped engines make song;
A look at the sides of his car showed there had been no rubbing here,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to fear;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to pacing,
And filled all the stockings; with parts for racing,
Then flipping the master power switch, and laying his finger on the starter,
And into first gear, back down pit road, but no farther;

He sprang from his car, to his team gave a holler,
And immediately they loaded the car back in the hauler.
But I heard him exclaim, as they tore out from the line,
"HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND SHIFT IN TURN 9!"


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 14:57:25 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:57:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Jan  3 15:08:34 2008
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:08:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Ford lifters
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74957856@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>

And does anyone know where to get lighter Ford lifters?  Those larger
lifters must also be quite a lot heavier.

Scott B.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Robert Lang
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:57 PM
To: U K MOTORSPORTS
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From cartravel at pobox.com  Thu Jan  3 15:54:49 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:54:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
References: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
Message-ID: <477D67B9.3070500@pobox.com>

A couple years ago I had a stock cam and 5 high performance TR4 cams run 
on a Cam Doctor.  This is a very accurate machine to measure the cam 
lift curve.  Of course, you can measure the curve with a degree wheel 
and dial indicator and you can get pretty good numbers for the lift and 
velocity (first derivative), but you won't have enough accuracy to get 
acceleration.  Here are a few results I observed:
1. the maximum flank acceleration on a stock cam is twice as high as 4 
of the 5 performance cams.
2. the maximum velocity on all but one cam was low enough to allow use 
of small block chevy lifters.
3. the recommended valve lash on 3 of the performance cams was so large 
that first contacted occurred on the flank at high velocity.
Needless to say, this data completely changed my opinions about cams and 
cam grinders/designers.

Someone mentioned using greater acceleration rates with high rocker 
ratios.  You should keep in mind that the valve spring rates and valve 
weight scale with the square of the rocker ratio, i.e 21% greater for 
1.65 vs 1.5.  If everything else is equal, you'd have to tone down the 
acceleration rates on the cam to maintain similar forces on the cam and 
tappet.
Larry Young

roadandtrack at bigpond.com wrote:
> I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data .....
> Terry O'Beirne
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Thu Jan  3 16:48:54 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:48:54 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <17253697.1199404134872.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

chip, 
thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???

can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully running with these bigger lifters.

thanks, Terry . 


From trhouse at greenapple.com  Thu Jan  3 17:20:13 2008
From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Minneapolis  Fot help needed
In-Reply-To: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <C3A2E5ED.31F5%trhouse@greenapple.com>

Anyone out there near Minneapolis
Please contact me off list

Thanks 

tom Householder


From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 19:23:08 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:23:08 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net> <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
Message-ID: <20080104022204.23E6C187A4A@autox.team.net>

Is that true for the TR-4 as well as the GT-6?

- Tony

At 02:33 PM 1/3/2008, Ted Schumacher wrote:
>Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are
>on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and
>overbore the lifter bores.  Ted


From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 19:32:51 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>

If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter installed
in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is inboard
somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info together
on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the first
of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on to
get  this done...Chip 


> [Original Message]
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard
Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> chip, 
> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the
non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never
done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I
had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses
a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>
> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully
running with these bigger lifters.
>
> thanks, Terry . 
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:11:28 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:11:28 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>

Chip,

This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification 
to my TR6.
The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.

Allen

On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:32 PM, U K MOTORSPORTS wrote:

> If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter 
> installed
> in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is 
> inboard
> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info 
> together
> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the 
> first
> of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on 
> to
> get  this done...Chip
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
>> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; 
>> Richard
> Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
>> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>>
>> chip,
>> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if 
>> the
> non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have 
> never
> done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  
> I
> had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford 
> uses
> a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>>
>> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are 
>> sucessfully
> running with these bigger lifters.
>>
>> thanks, Terry .
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
	<d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080104032231.8422E187A0B@autox.team.net>

Here's some solid lifters at Comp cams: 
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html
(pictures show hydaulic lifters, though)

- Tony

At 09:11 PM 1/3/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Chip,
>
>This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification
>to my TR6.
>The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.
>
>Allen


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lifters
Message-ID: <d705c69357d050460bc92b71c34d1bef@wi.rr.com>

Oops. That should have read: new Ford GT lifter (as in GT 40).

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Thu Jan  3 22:05:39 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] oversize lifters
Message-ID: <477DBEA3.3070104@cyberspeedway.net>

      The use of oversize (Ford size) lifters is one of the things that 
allowed Chevrolet to catch Ford in NASCAR in the late 80's. After Bill 
Elliot and the Ford camp got competitive in the mid 80's, Chevrolet 
whined until they were allowed bigger lifters. That was the start of the 
  homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have 
no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were 
dimensionally equal to the production piece.
      Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with 
oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.
      The lifter application to ask for is the 427 FE Ford High 
Performance. These are the bucket style and light weight. Another 
application is the 2TC and 3TC Toyota. I bought mine from Norris Cams 10 
years ago for my street TR6. They were cheaper and better than any 
Triumph lifter I have ever seen. Check that the push rod radius matches 
the seat radius in the lifter-almost cost me a lot of money-D'OH. Use 
bluing if your unsure.
Greg Lund


From markjwea at msn.com  Fri Jan  4 05:19:11 2008
From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:19:11 +0100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W23C703C59FF399285485B8C94C0@phx.gbl>

I seem to remember having to move the  centerline of the bore next to the
distributor gear over by .010 for clearance when I put .875 lifters in my TR6,
might want to check this.

Mark Weathers> From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net> To: roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re:
[Fot] roller rockers and head flow> > If you look at the TR6 block from the
front with a stock lifter installed> in #1 with out the cam installed you will
see that the cam bore is inboard> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it.
I will get some info together> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting
with my machinist the first> of the week and will get some figures on the
program that we worked on to> get this done...Chip > > > > [Original Message]>
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>> > To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>> > Cc:
<fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard> Good
<goodparts at verizon.net>> > Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM> > Subject: Re: [Fot]
roller rockers and head flow> >> > chip, > > thanks for the info about the
lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the> non-verticality is a factory
machining error or deliberate. I have never> done this on TR blocks, so I've
never had cause to look that closely. I> had located some very light 22mm
Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses> a nice light solid lifter of
0.875"???> >> > can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are
sucessfully> running with these bigger lifters.> >> > thanks, Terry . > >> >>
> -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free
Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release
Date:> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM> _______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 06:51:51 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
Message-ID: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a 
specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set 
valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at 
these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the end of 
the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking 
the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the 
rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  4 08:32:50 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:32:50 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
In-Reply-To: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a  
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.  
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was  
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the  
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash  
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even  
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running . 
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young  
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing  
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as  
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the  
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6


From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan  3 17:10:46 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:10:46 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <003301c84e66$419120c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

.............That was the start of the
>   homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
> no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
> dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>       Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
> oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street cars?

Steve P.


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 09:22:36 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:22:36 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 
 
It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
 
Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:33:41 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:33:41 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the initial
valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the seat) so the
sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases will start evacuating
through a large hole rather than a small crack. The cam has a ramp to it, even
if not by design, then by geometry, and letting the lash and slack in the
lifting system take up the ramp allows the cam to get into the meat of it's
opening cycle before the valve begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often on
bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the power and
torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would increase until you
added too much, then it would go down again. It's a small amount so II never
could really separate the effect from the variation inherent in repeated dyno
runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of runs knows what I mean by this) but I
still "knew" it was there, so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam
builder's spec.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg - Lunker
Hilyer
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 7:32 AM
To: Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running .
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From triosan at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 09:48:59 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>

At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products and
also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
"public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are two
different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.  The
super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
[described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive, powerful
deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are neither
flow rates not sound descriptions given.
http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html

To the FOT racing community:
With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
good scavaging and acceptable DB?

On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:

> Vance:
>
> At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing any
> of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment of
> creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these recommended
> mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael
> '76 Tahiti blue
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> 6pack at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> You are subscribed as triosan at gmail.com
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:52:08 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:52:08 -0800
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA790@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

IMHO, yes and no. I think we all struggle with making our cars reliable and
reasonably fast. When you put a hot cam in a tractor motor (absolutely in
accordance with vintage spirit) you compromise the lifters. With the limited
selection of good lifters available and the problems everyone is having with
oil, a reasonable choice is to fit something that will last because it's made
of good stuff and is not sized for a tractor's gentle ramps. Vintage racing is
expensive enough without having your cams get toasted on a regular
basis--along with the often spectacular failure that oils the track (to Jack's
dismay).

The question is, are you upgrading your lifters so you can push the outside
edge of cam design (as NASCAR guys did) or are you trying to hold your stuff
together using Cam design knowledge that has been around since the fifties. I
think we'd be kidding ourselves to think we're acting like NASCAR engine
designers--we ain't that motivated (I was going to say SMART but some of you
guys are).

The choice of using a computer to do the boring has nothing to do with vintage
spirit. Any good machinist can do it with a hundred year old bridgeport. It
will just take forever to set it up and cost a fortune. Using a CAM mill to do
it is just a lot easier. The factory did it without CAM.

All this said, I haven't done any of this yet. But if I can't find more
Unobtanium ceramic lifters, I probably will. And I'll be using the same cams I
always do. they just won't break the motor.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of JWoesvra at aol.com
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:22 AM
To: spreiss at verizon.net; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] steroid use

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and
computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
Vintage Community.

It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:05:29 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:05:29 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bf9.2c2f7015.34afc159@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/04/2008 10:24:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
JWoesvra at aol.com writes:


> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the 
>  
> Vintage Community. 
> 
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
> 

Jack...

I agree with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.

Hammered Lifter Syndrome!  I suspect, working with Ken Gillanders/BFG, we may 
have been among the first to use those FORD lifters in one of our engines.  I 
think I recall our mechanic, Kevin Potter, also stumbled on the 'freeze em 
first' way to make them fit.  But for sure our decision to use them was because 
we could no longer get good NOS lifters.  The crap we were getting from China 
and India (etc) was worthless.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:21:55 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:21:55 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <cf1.264fef72.34afc533@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:05:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, BillDentin  
writes:


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of  enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 

It is also way  beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage   Racing".



Jack...

I agree  with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.



I do too.
 
Y'all know that I am always for improvements that solve reliability and  
availability issues.
 
That is always a good thing. It just scares me a little when guys take that  
newfound reliability and use it to up the performance, thereby negating the  
reliability gain.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan  4 10:35:28 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
	<8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.  It
is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound limit.  I
believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html and I know
they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little louder.  My
car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my PI
setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out during a
race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 10:36:11 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:36:11 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7495791A@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA791@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

No science, no assumptions of better power, I just can't stand the noise.


-----Original Message-----
From: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:59 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: RE: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

<<so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.>>

Did you mean loose side?  Or is there an assumption, inherent in your
choice, that cam designers set their lash spec looser than it really
needs to be and, therefor, starting on the tight side of their spec gets
you back into the part of the curve where you're getting additional
power?

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:34 AM
To: Greg - Lunker Hilyer; Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the
initial valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the
seat) so the sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases
will start evacuating through a large hole rather than a small crack.
The cam has a ramp to it, even if not by design, then by geometry, and
letting the lash and slack in the lifting system take up the ramp allows
the cam to get into the meat of it's opening cycle before the valve
begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often
on bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the
power and torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would
increase until you added too much, then it would go down again. It's a
small amount so II never could really separate the effect from the
variation inherent in repeated dyno runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of
runs knows what I mean by this) but I still "knew" it was there, so I
always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.

--


From spyderweb at uwalumni.com  Fri Jan  4 11:15:23 2008
From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
	<037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <01a401c84efd$c6ccc4a0$3bea2a4b@gcllawyers.local>

John Macartney wrote:

> For those who have been FOTers for some time and
> may remember me from years back, my world has changed
> quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

Welcome back John! I'll not soon forget Mr. Macartney's hospitality during 
my visit to the Heritage Motor Centre at Gaydon while I was in Merrie Olde 
to see the Goodwood races in '01.

Congratulations on you marriage, your retirement and your continued 
contribution to all things Triumphant.

Jim Hill
Madison WI


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Fri Jan  4 11:20:25 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:20:25 GMT
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
Message-ID: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Fri Jan  4 12:23:34 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:23:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] lifters
Message-ID: <200801041923.m04JNenU266128@ns3.geneseo.net>

First the good news:

I've been trying to find the best lifter deal and may be making some 
progress. BPNW lists heavy duty lifters in their catalog and on their 
website. They sell them to some of the other domestic suppliers. They 
say that all the lifters are over 54 Rockwell C. Of course, like any 
manufactured product, not every piece is checked. I am purchasing 16 
of these and will have each one of them tested (costs me $5 apiece 
but I need good lifters) and will report the findings to the FOT list 
(with BPNW's approval). BPNW is nice to work with.

Now the bad news:

The leading manufacturer of ceramic lifters, Schubeck, no longer has 
an active phone number, and other websites that discuss these lifters 
say that they are no longer available.

uncle jack 


From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Fri Jan  4 12:28:46 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:28:46 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers 
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago. 
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current 
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the 
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket 
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1" 
x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have 
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive 
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
> 
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Fri Jan  4 13:09:23 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:09:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
In-Reply-To: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801041444120.30851@ankh.mit.edu>

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 JWoesvra at aol.com wrote:

> Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
> boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Hi -

At the risk of offending and so forth, not everyone on FOT is a 
died-in-the-wool vintage racer. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact.

In fact, some of us are current racers with SCCA and other groups.

But a general point in that regard is that in order to keep the cars 
running some ingenuity is needed. Solving problems like worn out cams is 
one such instance.

> Steve P.
>
>
> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
> Vintage Community.
>
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

I agree 100% with this statement. Which is one reason why I don't run 
vintage right now. My car isn't a real race car from back in the day, and 
owning a "real race car" is pretty much not in my future because of a lot 
of factors.

Interestingly, I run in current SCCA (solo) in a car that (except for the 
current flared fenders and the roll cage) is pretty much a 1972 GCR legal 
car. Yes, I'm not competitive at the national level, but I have a car that 
is way kool and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Well, if someone gave me 
a GT1 car, I might let go - but there would be some wimpering...

But the point of my message is that FOT is actually a pretty diverse group 
with a common interest - TRIUMPHS. How we use our Triumphs is actually one 
aspect of the group where divergence occurs.

As a point of information, had I fully understood the cam follower thing 
when I had my last cam done, I might have done things a bit differently so 
that my $600+ cam job would last more than a couple of seasons. C'est la 
vie!

> Jack Woehrle
> SVRA Technical Director

regards,
rml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 13:24:54 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:24:54 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a set of
the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be a fuzzy
area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except they are
aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan  4 15:13:42 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:13:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Speaking of GPS
Message-ID: <3880.81718.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just got this in a newsletter today...

* GPS devices: Road tested and reviewed
http://cwflyris.computerworld.com/t/2594280/36312132/93229/2/

Gary Schneider


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 15:32:39 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:32:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] Global Positioning Systems
Message-ID: <cea.25eff8d0.34b00e07@aol.com>

Amici...

In case I missed someone, thanks to all who responded with comments on 
portable global positioning systems.

I believe I am going to purchase a GARMIN-nuvi 350 GPS.

I am just waiting for Shirley to fall asleep so I can get into her purse.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 16:51:37 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:51:37 -0600
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a  
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be  
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except  
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?   
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.   
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part  
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if  
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.   
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum  
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to  
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on  
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of  
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how  
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy  
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/ 
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Fri Jan  4 17:51:54 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, you might try Richard Good (610 777-4457). He uses 300ZX diffs with some
of his hub/axle setups. He may have a source(s) for the calipers or info on
where to get them.
Good luck,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers


> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I
can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I
have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM5
3
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  4 20:34:32 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Alloy sump for Herald/Spit on eBay
Message-ID: <BLU127-W12E3A057B42E41DA5F2A898C4D0@phx.gbl>

Item 150200754411.  Its in the UK.

Usual disclaimers here.

Shane Ingate, picking up my contribution to global warming (6.6L Duramax)
tomorrow, in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 22:52:30 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:52:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA797@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Not Girling style, they are AP, a little bigger than girlings I think, but not
much. I've been able to get performance friction, ferodo, and several other
pads for them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 3:51 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:19:10 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:19:10 -0000
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A71@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Hi Charley
If you wont an original one we have stock
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Charly Mitchel
Sent: 04 January 2008 17:35
To: Chuck Arnold; samuelsma at aol.com
Cc: 6pack at autox.team.net; vance.navarrette at intel.com; Friends
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.
It is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound
limit.  I believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html
and I know they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little
louder.  My car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my
PI setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out
during a race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a
little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there
products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There
are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the
Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410
cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a
straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that
provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually
hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the
disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:42:33 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:42:33 -0000
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A73@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Should aftermarket calipers be allowed in the future, we have developed
serious kits in conjunction with Hi Spec.
Have a look at RTR4461PK as an example
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4461PK

This kit has plain 280mm (11" in old money) discs (rotors) which we can
supply hardened for FIA applications where solid discs must be used.

Then we have RTR4458K which could be made 280mm if required

http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4458K

This is the same kit as RTR4461PK but with  vented discs. These kits use
Billet 4 calipers which are good for road, track day, sprint, mild race.
For long race, endureo etc, the R114/4 caliper is best, as used on our
TR7 kits RTR4481K and RTR4482K which use a vented disc

This kit can easily be morphed into TR2-6

We also do a Herald, spitfire, GT6 kit but don't advertise it!

I hope this helps

Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
greg
Sent: 04 January 2008 19:29
To: Joe Boruch; FOT LIST
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago.
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1"

x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990)
> 300ZX.  This are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.
> They are part #'s 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am
> looking to see if I can adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get
> the SCCA to allow them.  I have already gotten a verbal approval that
> SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from a production vehicle.  We
> (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA to allow any
> caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers, but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and

> see how close they are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to
> fit then I can buy some.  The 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit
> that I have found by researching dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn27
> 3SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From srcypher at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 05:28:06 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:28:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cheap(er)Triumph TR6 Parts Alert
In-Reply-To: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <E067BA5D-C2FA-4437-9DF7-FF28F083EED6@mac.com>

Found these on Craigs list in the PA area, if any of you are interested

tr6 motor and 4spd trans: $200
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/529050179.html

1969 car with spares for restoration $1500
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/car/526347387.html


From tlizzard at msn.com  Sat Jan  5 08:22:44 2008
From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:22:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <BAY116-DAV9355E929C2D7456EA29A3C34D0@phx.gbl>

I do believe that there is a Toyota 4 pot caliper as used on the 4WD small
pickups that is a direct bolt on for the early TR serices cars.
I know I've seen some cars with that caliper installed.

I'd like info on that setup myself for my street car.

Terry Stetler


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sat Jan  5 10:42:47 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:42:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration
In-Reply-To: <477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>

Oops, too long the first time.
> Ok, this is probably more about this subject than you really want to know.
>
> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.  You can measure the 
> lift curve with a degree wheel and dial indicator.  It just won't be 
> this accurate. The velocity is the slope of the lift curve, which 
> could be calculated in a spreadsheet. The acceleration is the slope of 
> the velocity or the curvature of the lift curve.
>
> You will notice there is a constant velocity ramp at the opening and 
> closing ends of the lift curve.  The purpose of the ramp is to avoid 
> smacking the cam too hard.  You want the valve to start opening at the 
> point I have indicated.  If you want to know what valve clearance to 
> use and you do not have a cam card (or maybe even if you do) you have 
> to consider both the rocker ratio and the flexibility of the linkage.  
> Once the cam contacts the lifter, there will be 0.002 to 0.004 in of 
> cam lift taken up by compression of the linkage (pushrod, etc.) before 
> the valve starts to open.  If you look at the graph, the point I've 
> indicated for valve opening occurs at about 0.010 cam lift.  Using 
> 0.003 for compression, the valve clearance should be set at (0.010 - 
> 0.003)*1.5 = 0.0105.  You would not want to use less valve clearance, 
> because the valve would be just cracked open for several degrees.  The 
> cam designer can make the ramp end at any lift, but I don't know why 
> you would ever design a cam for more than 0.015 valve clearance. 
>
> As Bill and others have mentioned.  Once the valve starts to open, you 
> want to open it as quickly as possible.  Upward curvature of the lift 
> curve is acceleration.  Unfortunately, high acceleration means high 
> force (remember mass times acceleration).   High acceleration also 
> triggers high amplitude vibrations in the valve train, which can lead 
> to valve float, etc.  The graph shows a maximum acceleration of about 
> 0.0006 in/deg/deg which is typical for a high performance pushrod 
> engine with solid lifters.  The increased stiffness of an OHC permits 
> cams with about twice as much acceleration, i.e. much quicker 
> opening.  This is the biggest advantage of an OHC.  Stiffness is more 
> important than weight.
>
> As I mentioned in my previous post, 3 cams specified a valve clearance 
> which caused opening on the flank, and the TR-666 was one them.  It's 
> ramp ends at about 0.01 lift also.  At a valve clearance of 0.028 you 
> are up on the flank at high velocity.  My conclusion from all this is 
> that most of these cams were never designed for use in a Triumph.  
> They are probably recycled from some other application. 
> Larry


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan  5 12:04:42 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:04:42 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
Message-ID: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of  
a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside 
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt 
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 12:22:57 2008
From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:22:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
References: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY109-W24F9F2850B1436B3557549A54D0@phx.gbl>

> FoT,> > Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width
of > a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside >
face of the the rotor surface)?

Not less than 1.475" as per Service Information Bulletin Sports/16/R, May
1958.

John H.


From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan  5 14:32:17 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:17 -0600
Subject: [Fot] AE Cam chains - TR-3/4
Message-ID: <20080105213124.9283F1879D7@autox.team.net>

British Parts Northwest shows AE cam chain for the TR-3/4 on their 
website.  There was some discussion earlier about where to get them...

- Tony


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sat Jan  5 15:56:58 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:56:58 +1100
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
design at the time.

Steve P.


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 08:19:32 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>

I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter 
size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006 
in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of 
the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for 
chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get 
the maximum performance.

Larry Young wrote:
>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
>> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.


From BillDentin at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:34:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
spreiss at verizon.net writes:


> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" 
> for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
> 
> 

Steve...

I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production 
based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.  
I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the 
'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I remember early 
ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats, 
AND disc brakes.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 08:45:01 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:45:01 -0700
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV578AC8E59A86C8D504419B74E0@phx.gbl>

(Found while Googling) The Citrokn DS of 1955, with powered inboard front disc
brakes, and the 1956 Triumph TR3 were the first European production cars to
feature modern disc brakes.
      Kevin

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BillDentin at aol.com<mailto:BillDentin at aol.com>
  To: spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net>
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


  In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
  spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net> writes:


  > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car
in
  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can
anyone
  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"
  > for
  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern
automotive
  > design at the time.
  >
  >

  Steve...

  I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production
  based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs'
cars.
  I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
  'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I
remember early
  ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,
  AND disc brakes.

  Bill Dentinger



  **************
  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489<http:
//body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/fot>


From fubog1 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:48:21 2008
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:48:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
In-Reply-To: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CA1E92B2FF0C36-1350-5632@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

here's a link to wikipedia, it's a good summary


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake


BTW they were originally advertised as "spot" brakes (aircraft term).


Glen










-----Original Message-----

From: BillDentin at aol.com

To: spreiss at verizon.net

Cc: fot at autox.team.net

Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34 am

Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design





In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,   spreiss at verizon.net writes:      > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"   > for  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive  > design at the time.  >   >     Steve...    I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production   based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.    I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the   'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I   remember early   ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,   AND disc brakes.    Bill Dentinger        **************  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.         http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489  _______________________________________________  http://www.team.net/donate.html    Fot mailing list  Fot at autox.team.net  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot  


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From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan  6 10:58:53 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001401c8508d$ccd74550$d214c548@RW>

The Crosley Supersports had spot disc brakes in about 1952. I had one and 
traded it in on my first MG.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <spreiss at verizon.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


> In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
> spreiss at verizon.net writes:
>
>
>> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car 
>> in
>> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can 
>> anyone
>> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so 
>> "un-Standard"
>> for
>> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern 
>> automotive
>> design at the time.
>>
>>
>
> Steve...
>
> I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other 
> production
> based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' 
> cars.
> I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
> 'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I 
> remember early
> ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket 
> seats,
> AND disc brakes.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:21:14 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:21:14 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>

I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.

My understanding of the cam / lifter geometry is that if the lobe is 
designed to never run off the edge of the lifter, then that's the 
condition that will always exist, whether or not we float the valves. 
Is this correct?I guess my question would be -- with the cam we're 
using, what is the diameter needed to avoid running off the edge -- 
which gets at how close to the edge of the lifter will the lifter 
contact the cam, under any circumstance?

I had my head work done several months ago and forgot to mention to 
you guys a problem that I had. It may not have anything at all to do 
with this discussion, or it may. All my valve stems were peened over 
a little bit on the ends. The machine shop expert's first opinion was 
that I had floated the valves a lot. When I told him that I kept the 
revs to levels that I wouldn't expect that (6000), we theorized that 
because of the diameter of the stud holes in the rocker stands, 
perhaps the centerline of the shaft had moved back far enough to let 
the rocker tips run off the edge of the stems.

That puzzled me too, because there was evidence of something fishy 
going on all the way across the ends of the stems. I purchased new valves.

Later when he was starting assembly he determined that the springs 
had lost some of their tension so we put new valve springs in. I 
don't know how old the springs were. Our conclusion ended up being 
that the weaker springs had allowed valve float.

I have them set the seat pressure between 90 and 100 on all these 
heads. That's really quite conservative compared with what the V8's run.

We also decided that the radius on the valve tips looked too shallow 
(too large a radius), so he refaced that tips to have a sharper 
radius to reduce the possibility of them running off the edge.

I'm also considering replacing my old rocker stands with new ones. 
The new ones are much nicer. I've had the old ones milled and shimmed 
numerous times over the years - they are ten years old.

I have a hard time thinking that any of this is related to camshaft 
design, since as I understand it, the acceleration and velocity we're 
using is not significantly higher than used on the stock camshaft -- 
do I understand this correctly?

Anyway, all this may or may not have some relation to what we're 
seeing in the valve train..

At 09:19 AM 1/6/2008, Larry Young wrote:
>I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter
>size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006
>in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of
>the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for
>chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get
>the maximum performance.
>
>Larry Young wrote:
> >> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam -
> >> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 11:47:03 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:47:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Sun Jan  6 11:58:59 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: KEVIN LYNCH
  To: FOT
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
  Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Good morning group ..

  RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
  companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
  I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
  thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
  service provider.

  Kev Lynch
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 12:16:49 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
	<005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV107583B587C4DF7E0D9428B74E0@phx.gbl>

Jeff, who are they using?  Thanks for the reply.

Kev
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeff Snook<mailto:jsnook at wcnet.org>
  To: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ; FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

  Jeff Snook
  http://www.snooksdreamcars.com<http://www.snooksdreamcars.com/>
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com>
    To: FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
    Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
    Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


    Good morning group ..

    RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
    companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability
etc..
    I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
    thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with
their
    service provider.

    Kev Lynch
    _______________________________________________
    http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

    Fot mailing list
    Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/fot>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:48:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] message on cams, etc
Message-ID: <200801061917.m06JGxdI301509@ns3.geneseo.net>

If you received a message from me about lifters and cam stuff, and 
the message was totally incomprehensible, it's because of a side 
discussion I was having with Larry and I accidentally sent it to the 
whole list. Sorry.

At least that's my story and I'm stickin to it.

uncle jack 


From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 12:40:07 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:40:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA79D@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

My company is getting ready to release an on line self-serve registration
system, something we've done for our clients for many years. It will be very
inexpensive and very high quality. I know that sounds odd, but you are not the
target, we're aiming at companies that usually do this for themselves, but who
would use an external tool if it had superior architecture, function,
reporting, hosting and was very easy to use. Not sure when it's going to be
available (I'm not involved in the day-to-day biz anymore) but I'll let you
know as soon as I do--should be pretty soon, if the clients would just stop
demanding so much of the company's time. Oh, wait, that would be bad.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 10:47 AM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  6 12:45:40 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <426553.20017.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Midwestern Council has been using MyAutoEvents.com for all our W-W races, autocrosses and HPDEs the past few years. MAE was put together by an SCCA racer maybe 6 or 8 years ago so it's pretty polished and stable. It keeps a database so once you enter your info you can enter any subsequent events with a few clicks. The registrars get information they can actually read compared to illegible faxes and mail-ins. We kept our entry form template as close as possible to SCCA's so crossover guests can easily enter too. You get a few variable fields you can use for your own purposes. Because each race is a different club and registrar I was a bit concerned going in about the modest level of computer literacy required. But it was a non-issue, everyone just picked it up and ran with it.

MAE has provision for reserving car numbers but we don't use that due to the complications of several classes running in the same race group.

Last year they started charging $35 per event for the service if you don't run the payments through them, which in a $30K-60K weekend is infinitesimal. (MC doesn't require prepayment so nearly everyone pays at the track.)

Do remember there are a lot of people without broadband, extensive PC savvy, or without a PC at all. There will still be a need for paper entry forms and mail-ins, but at a guess we get about 2/3 on line these days.

I wrote an MAE user's brief for the MC registrars and participants, available at http://www.mcscc.org/files.htm. Click on "MyAutoEvents Support Files."

Regards,
Gary Schneider
Madison WI


----- Original Message ----
From: KEVIN LYNCH <klynch_6 at msn.com>
To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:47:03 PM
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From KENMUN at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 13:17:02 2008
From: KENMUN at aol.com (KENMUN at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:17:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] tr3/4 competition cam
Message-ID: <bb8.1c0d8b87.34b2913e@aol.com>

fot, anyone have a good used tr "f" or isky 777 cam they would like to sell? 
thanks, ken m. tr3 vintage racer



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  6 14:42:36 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:42:36 -0000
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <083201c850ad$0e26d790$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Steve,
As others have commented, the TR wasn't the first car ever to have front disc brakes, though it was 
certainly the first British sports car in the more budget price sector to have them. In that regard, 
it was a bit of one-upmanship against the likes of Austin Healey, MG and Sunbeam Talbot.

I'm surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the extensive records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with drum brakes on the European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? Although it wasn't a 
TR, my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes (through fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't being driven nearly as fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was a good alternative to an effective laxative!

Don't construe this response to indicate that drum brakes per se are ineffective. Rolls Royce and 
Bentley used excellent four shoe front drum brakes for years and I think up to the end of the 
1960's. An uncle had a RR Phantom which I drove on occasions. I recall that stopping about three 
tons of the best English drawing-room from around 80mph in a somewhat urgent situation was both 
impressive and very effective.

Cheers, Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: [Fot] automotive design


>I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
>
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 01:22:53 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:22:53 +1100
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
Message-ID: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much better.

S. Preiss


From Herald948 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 17:42:31 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:42:31 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <d20.1dc7b042.34b2cf77@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:42:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
standardtriumph at btinternet.com writes:

I'm  surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the 
extensive  records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with  drum brakes on the 
European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to  serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? 
Although it wasn't a 
TR,  my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes 
(through  fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't  being driven nearly as 
fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was  a good alternative to an effective laxative!


==AM==
Wonderfully phrased as always, John! :-)
 
I don't have any of my Triumph books handy at the moment, but I do recall  
accounts of various disc brake setups (Dunlop and Lockheed, as well as Girling)  
being tried out on the Le Mans cars, circa 1955.
 
And yes, Triumph definitely was NOT the first to use disc brakes; to be  
painfully correct, I think TR3s were the first volume, series-production  British 
car to use them, and possibly the first volume, series-production car in  the 
world to introduce and stay with front disc brakes. (I recall reading  
somewhere that there were experimental front brakes on some Chrysler Imperials  or 
some such car around 1951, but that very, very few cars were so  equipped, 
possibly due to problems with the brakes.)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 18:54:43 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:54:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <47818663.4090406@pobox.com>

> Yeah, I know, you don't have to tell me.  I've tried teaching several 
> times during my life and failed miserably every time.
>
> Actually,  if you think of the cam as a lever attached to a shaft 
> (draw yourself a picture), the longer the lever or further out the 
> contact point, the faster the lifter will rise for each degree of 
> rotation.  The only difference between this and a real cam is that the 
> length of the lever is continuously changing as the cam rotates.
>
> With regard to the rest of your comments/suggestions - I don't know.  
> There are so many variables and so many ways we can go wrong in this 
> stuff.  That's why we love it, isn't it?
> Wouldn't it me fun to put one of our valve trains on a Spintron 
> machine - http://www.spintron.com/?  Does anyone have access to one of 
> these?
Jack W. Drews wrote:
>> I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
>> must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.


From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 20:46:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:46:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
References: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A0@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I've raced at events with Tivvy several times, very nice guy and an excellent
driver. Actually I think the only time I was actually on track with him was
the event prior to the Pittsburg VGP--ReaverRun. I Started from the back in
the big bore group (had to switch classes because of an event conflict) and
managed to pass my way up to about 4th or 5th as I recall. Tivvy was one of
the cars I passed. I know he was kind of shocked, but Peyote always does
that--it's a lot better car than it looks to be.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 12:22 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche
would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying
his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before
emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration
of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much
better.

S. Preiss
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Mon Jan  7 02:02:32 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:02:32 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A8D@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Allen
Its all the same as TR6 but slightly larger diameter.
Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Allen Washatko
Sent: 05 January 2008 19:05
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of a
TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au  Mon Jan  7 04:02:32 2008
From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:02:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cam Followers
Message-ID: <7A4C980A5E674BFFB1141797CEEFBB32@GEOFFPC>

 FOT
Anyone have experience with the mushroom type followers. This would seem to be
the answer to bigger follower without the need to bore the block

Geoff Byrne
TR6 racer down under


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Mon Jan  7 09:19:15 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:19:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
Simon.


From vanlake at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan  7 12:52:58 2008
From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:52:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] LIFTER BORE TILT
Message-ID: <010720081952.22802.47828319000CB8740000591222216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net>

As discussed earlier, the Triumph (TR6) lifter bores are in fact tilted. with this known, how does a Cam builder compensate for this, or do they in fact? Is there an accepted error in our lifter to lobe angle from cylinder to cylinder? 

 Has anyone experimented with drilling or using a laser to punch a small hole in the face of the lifter to better lube the cam. Also, if  anyone is interested in purchasing the Ford GT (40) lifters, I have two sets for sale. Mark 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 20:49:32 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:49:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
Message-ID: <004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Mon Jan  7 13:03:38 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:03:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
	<004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A7@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Yes and no. I innovated my TR3 right out of vintage racing.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 7:49 PM
To: Simon Rasmussen
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Disc brakes.

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 15:08:36 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:08:36 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>

Many thanks for all the info Larry. Great stuff and obviously lots of  
work. I think it's beginning to sink into my [thick] head.
All the best to you and yours for the new year. Say hi to Tom for me.
Greg "Lunker " Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Larry Young wrote:

> I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and  
> lifter size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity  
> is 0.006 in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get  
> the radius of the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add  
> a safety factor for chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use  
> the entire lifter to get the maximum performance.
>
> Larry Young wrote:
>>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4  
>>> cam - http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.


From jerryvv at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan  7 20:30:50 2008
From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fw: [TR] Old racing photos
Message-ID: <005f01c851a6$ddbd70a0$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5>

I thought many of you would enjoy these photos too. They came from John Wise 
who is on the Triumph list only.

Jerry Van Vlack




> An old colleague of mine who actually photographed the old Northern
> California sports car races for R&T sent me this link to some pictures
> from 1953.  Just thought some of you might be interested!
>
> http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/GH000Homepage.html
>
> John A. Wise
> Glendale, AZ


From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Mon Jan  7 21:55:35 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:55:35 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
Message-ID: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
> Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0 at SIMON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.

The targa top, before Porsche.

Leon
   </HTML>


From herald948 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 08:03:56 2008
From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection 
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear 
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), 
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the 
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on 
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and 
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of 
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some 
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, 
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph 
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Tue Jan  8 08:16:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:16:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
	<8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BFD1730@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

Maybe it's because I drove my TR6 to work today in the rain, but I am
reminded of a couple of unintentional innovations such as randomnly
intermittant wipers and self bleeding clutch slave cylinders.


Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of herald948 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:04 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald),
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com _______________________________________________
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tarch at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 08:44:03 2008
From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net><477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
	<477FC197.40005@pobox.com><4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001801c8520d$4c4434d0$7201a8c0@richardiipc>

Group,

As an outsider in this groovy thread of cams, curves, velocity and
acceleration of lifters and valves and such, I'm left with some chance
thoughts.

The first is to thank you for taking the time to explain to many of us the
kind of thinking that goes into this component of an engine. It reminds me,
a little, of taking calculus in college. Like many, I bumbled through. But
once out of school it all went immediately into the lost-art department. The
important left-overs in both this thread of cam design and the old calculus
courses is the knowledge that there is a wonderfully tight and bright system
of comprehension that someone much more dedicated than most of us engages
in. 

And just as importantly, you have patiently brought this knowledge well
within the engineering limits of those of us who have to adjust their valves
three times just to feel confident that they will neither rattle nor
silently not close at all. 

Consequently, other than the intellectual stimulation that many of us
enjoyed from all this conversation, I am left with two thoughts.

First, I would like to express my (Fot) appreciation to our brain trust for
the thought-provoking lessons.  And, secondly, since Uncle Jack adjusts his
valves on the tight side, so will I. That's all I need to know (thank you
Keats)and more than I got out of my calculus classes.

Thanks again,

Richard
TR-4 #196


From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 13:13:36 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:13:36 -0800
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>

Hello:

 

A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has been
investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local race fuel
supply dealer.  

 

 

https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm

 

 

Gary

 

PS - no financial interest, info only.


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Tue Jan  8 16:05:32 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the city
with the details.

Kevin


From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 16:28:05 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:28:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003901c8524e$1fb08d10$5f11a730$@racer@comcast.net>

Kevin:

Don't hold your breath.  There have been three parties involved in this
project since the idea was first broached with the City of SF in 2005.  An
individual, familiar with the beginnings of the Pittsburg GP, approached the
city with the idea and supposedly succeeded in gaining approval from the
Parks & Recreation Dept, but not the Board of Supervisors.  Once that
individual realized the enormity of the project, not to mention the
liability, he dropped out.  Another organization was asked to become
involved and presented a proper plan. For various reasons this situation was
terminated and the so called sponsors contacted the SCCA who declined, they
then turned to HMSA.  From what I understand, HMSA agreed to conduct (for a
fee) a feasibility study and that is the last I've heard.  I suspect the
logistics and liability are hurdles to large to overcome, not to mention
having to convince the board of supervisors, the environmentalists and other
civic groups in SF.  Nope, don't think it will ever happen.

Gary        

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:06 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the
city
with the details.

Kevin
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:13:30 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:13:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>

Gary,

You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

Allen

On Jan 8, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Gary Horstkorta wrote:

> Hello:
>
>
>
> A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has 
> been
> investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local 
> race fuel
> supply dealer.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> PS - no financial interest, info only.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:21:47 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:21:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
Message-ID: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>

Joe,

For a good overview, check out the article noted below as  
www.inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>
> Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal  
> group of
> Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,  
> but some
> is new to me at least.
>
> Jim Norlin
>
>
>
> Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is Shell
> Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make  
> sure that
> whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.   
> JEG"S has
> it at about $8.00 a pint.
>
> The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds on
> immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get  
> reduced.
>
> the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing  
> engines
> likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of  
> the new
> oil formulations.
>
> CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am  
> attaching
> it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> Here is a link:
> <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? 
> ListHistoryID=
> 1821071676>
>
> anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me  
> direct
> and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you  
> directly.
> It is very interesting.
>
> Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>
> Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward this  
> to
> that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by  
> their
> monitor.
>
> Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet  
> break in,
> even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for maximum  
> life
> in a racing engine.
>
> Larry Dent
> _______________________________________________
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 22:26:02 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:26:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <be5.21ebb343.34b5b4ea@aol.com>

News Flash...I was told months ago that GM has discontinued the manufacture 
of E.O.S.  If you have some or know where some is I suggest you hang on to it 
or buy it.
 
There have been many threads on the ZDDP issue on the 6-Pack, Healey list, MG 
list, etc.  As a rebuilder/restorer/racer I strongly recommend you look into 
the Amsoil or Redline brands as some of their products have NOT reduced the 
content of ZDDP.  They have altered some but have kept certain products 
specifically for flat tappet engines.  There is significant test data available on the 
Amsoil website.  Specifically you want to stay with the SL type 20w-50.  NOT 
the SM type.  If you want or need more info I'm happy to help.
 
Cheers,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From mdporter at dfn.com  Tue Jan  8 22:35:04 2008
From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:35:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47845D08.8040007@dfn.com>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> Gary,
>
> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
> against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
> lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
> The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
> this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
> so good. Got this from Tony Drew.
>
>   

Umm, "cramshaft."  These are available from J.C. Whitney in high-lift, 
long-duration models, yes?  :)


Cheers.

-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  9 07:32:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:32:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200801091432.m09EWbxM401536@ns3.geneseo.net>

My local Chevy dealer told me last week that General Motors' EOS is 
now  a discontinued product. I bought the last two bottles he had. He 
also told me the inventory at all the Chevy dealers in the area and 
I'm going to buy some more. Thanks to the folks who have identified 
other magic elixirs on the market.

.At 11:13 PM 1/8/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Gary,
>
>You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership
>for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection
>against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft
>lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
>The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of
>this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far,
>so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

uncle jack 


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 08:37:44 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:37:44 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
Message-ID: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>

Greetings from Finland,

I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google 
Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last 
year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350 
and other big ones... If it's wet enough...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783

Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall 
in the end.

Regards
Jari
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/


From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan  9 08:57:59 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:57:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?

At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>Greetings from Finland,
>
>I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>
>Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>in the end.
>
>Regards
>Jari
>http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GRMTim at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:48:59 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:48:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
	magazine
Message-ID: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>

Guys,

With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it into 
our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you know 
of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or 
website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, please let my 
guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy and 
paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to running 
the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 GT6, 
and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

For release: Immediately
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup

The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race fans, 
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at 
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by Kas 
Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph racer 
who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas 
Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the 
marque.
Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including the 
famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, TS01, a 
1952 Triumph TR2.
Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event, 
which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western Pennsylvania 
Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph 
enthusiasts.
As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the downtown 
merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers are 
allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has 
also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will 
want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim Baxter 
at xxx.
###






**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:57:00 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:57:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <c95.2242f0f7.34b656dc@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:49:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
GRMTim at aol.com writes:

The  Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
fans,  
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at  
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this  September 4-7 2008.



Attention everyone concerned.
 
This event is no longer sponsored by ZIPPO so it is not the Zippo Grand  Prix 
anymore.
 
It should be referred to as: SVRA ~ U.S. Vintage  Grand Prix
 
When and if a major sponsor is signed, we will let everyone know.
 
Thanks, Jack Woehrle ~ SVRA



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 10:06:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:06:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <d45.1ca0d125.34b658fd@cs.com>

We have a couple more corrections pending, regarding the press release, but 
they should be cleared out by the end of the day.

Joe A   </HTML>


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 10:32:26 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:32:26 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
	<20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>

No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound 
is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb. 
Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn 
there...

David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>
> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>   
>> Greetings from Finland,
>>
>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>
>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>> in the end.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jari
>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Jan  9 10:41:25 2008
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <200801091741.m09HfPWR016129@moose.dimebank.com>

> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz.

Not last time I checked - they've stopped selling it.

Not even mail order.


From d.hesse at charter.net  Wed Jan  9 11:39:53 2008
From: d.hesse at charter.net (d.hesse at charter.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:39:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] VARA at Buttonwillow May 3-4
Message-ID: <20080109133953.U5E5V.776687.root@fepweb04>

I was wondering who from the group will be racing at Buttonwillow on May 3-4? My wife and I are coming out to stay in Newport Beach and are thinking of taking the 3hr drive north to catch a day of the races. Any other car related events happening in the LA area that weekend that anyone would recommend?
Thanks.
Dave Hesse
Portage WI


From triosan at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 12:05:04 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:05:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top screws and bolts
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801091105l1e917fb2j3001b1ccc53f92ed@mail.gmail.com>

I removed the top 3 garges ago.  Now no longer have the 6 screws that bolt
the frame to the body or the 6[?] bolts that attach the frame piece to the
rear deck.

I would like to get the required parts locally, so I need to know the sizes
of these two items.  The screws are fit into the counter sunk holes on the
frame.  I would guess they are 1/4-28 by 1/2 or 3/4 [though they could be
5/16 24].  The bolts are probably 1/4 or 5/15 and also about 1/2 or 3/4.

Would really appreciate it if anybody knows [I did not yet check in my
Repair Manual].

-- 
Chuck Arnold


From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Wed Jan  9 14:17:42 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:17:42 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <380-22008139211742277@M2W035.mail2web.com>

Hey everyone,

I just came across an auction company having a large collector-car live
auction on eBay.  It includes several Bugeyes, 1920's and 30's Fords, a
couple Minis (one Moke!), some MGs (incl. MGAs and a TD), and micro-cars
(Isettas, NSU, Honda, etc.), among others.  It also includes two Judson
Superchargers in boxes, some Hit and Miss motors, and a Honda Dream
motorcycle.

These cars are not for the faint of heart.  They are barn finds and look
it.  I think there were just a few out of all of them that may be driveable
(maybe an MG TD, a '76 Mercedes, a Ford Taurus...).  But if you would like
a decent collector-car project, you may find it here.  Apparently the
auction is in PA (at least the auction company is).

Here is the link to their auctions on eBay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalderferauction

Just FYI, since I know some of you out there are as insane as we are!

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 14:24:52 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:24:52 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cfa.2686b2a3.34b695a4@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 3:18:15 PM Central Standard Time, 
spitfiresuz at 141.com writes:


> It also includes two Judson
> Superchargers in boxes,

My experience suggests if you are a successful bidder on one of the Judson 
Supercharges, and your engine is 'prepped' in any way, you paint the Judson gold 
and display it on a shelf, rather than put it on the car.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From rocky at spitfire4.com  Wed Jan  9 15:02:36 2008
From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:02:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>

Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.

Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but apparently 
that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice drive in the wet.

--Rocky Entriken
#4 Spitfire (also 1147)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys


> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
> there...
>
> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>
>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>
>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>>> in the end.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jari
>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 16:56:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:56:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
From: BillDentin at aol.com
Full-name: BillDentin
Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
To: kaskas at cox.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
writes:

I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
a bush.

My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
better on the MGA than the TRs.
 
Bill Dentinger
 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 17:18:36 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:18:36 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!

~Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
>To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
>Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Full-name: BillDentin
>Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
>Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>To: kaskas at cox.net
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
>
>In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
>writes:
>
>I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
>at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
>on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
>remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
>a bush.
>
>My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
>1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
>Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
>limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
>instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
>better on the MGA than the TRs.
> 
>Bill Dentinger
> 
>
>
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From stutzmans at comcast.net  Wed Jan  9 17:28:44 2008
From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:28:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic
 Motorsportsmagazine
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c8531f$c1f85c70$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31>

TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
Bruce
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
Motorsportsmagazine


> Guys,
>
> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
> into
> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
> know
> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
> please let my
> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
> and
> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
> running
> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
> GT6,
> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>
> Tim Suddard
> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
> www.classicmotorsports.net
> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
> For release: Immediately
> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>
> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
> fans,
> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
> Kas
> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
> racer
> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
> marque.
> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
> the
> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
> TS01, a
> 1952 Triumph TR2.
> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
> Pennsylvania
> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
> enthusiasts.
> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
> downtown
> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
> are
> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
> but lives
> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
> For
> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
> Baxter
> at xxx.
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Wed Jan  9 18:05:30 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:05:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
References: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF5F88@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC

You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 18:10:38 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:10:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <c0a.27f32938.34b6ca8e@aol.com>

I rest my case.
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 19:08:29 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from
 ClassicMotorsportsmagazine
Message-ID: <7BCE119A.7DC3B7B3.00159EE9@cs.com>

good point Bruce.  this should be mentioned in appreciation of TRFs efforts.  thanks 

>TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
>Bruce
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
>To: <fot at autox.team.net>
>Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
>Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
>Motorsportsmagazine
>
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
>> into
>> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
>> know
>> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
>> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
>> please let my
>> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
>> and
>> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
>> running
>> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
>> GT6,
>> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> For release: Immediately
>> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>>
>> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
>> fans,
>> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
>> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
>> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
>> Kas
>> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
>> racer
>> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
>> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
>> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
>> marque.
>> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
>> the
>> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
>> TS01, a
>> 1952 Triumph TR2.
>> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
>> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
>> Pennsylvania
>> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
>> enthusiasts.
>> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
>> downtown
>> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
>> are
>> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
>> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
>> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
>> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
>> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
>> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
>> but lives
>> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
>> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
>> For
>> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
>> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
>> Baxter
>> at xxx.
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Jan  9 19:58:02 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
In-Reply-To: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478589BA.7030705@bradakis.com>

>The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group
>  
>
You misspelled 'international'

mjb.


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Thu Jan 10 01:42:30 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:42:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200801100843.m0A8h4Uu362457@ns3.geneseo.net>

Thereis a name for this class of cars. It is "Rare and Undesirable".

At 06:18 PM 1/9/2008, steve wrote:
>Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!
>
>~Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
> >To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
> >Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Full-name: BillDentin
> >Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
> >Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
> >Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >To: kaskas at cox.net
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
> >
> >In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, 
> kaskas at cox.net
> >writes:
> >
> >I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales
> >at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests
> >on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then
> >remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant 
> flowers or even
> >a bush.
> >
> >My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in 
> the early
> >1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in
> >Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better 
> have a rev
> >limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, 
> but came with
> >instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told 
> me they worked
> >better on the MGA than the TRs.
> >
> >Bill Dentinger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >_______________________________________________
> >http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> >Fot mailing list
> >Fot at autox.team.net
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan 10 07:31:24 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:31:24 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <be5.22174695.34b7863c@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 7:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
RYoung at navcomtech.com writes:


> You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?
> 

Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either.  It saved me a lot of 
embarrassment.  I'm not that good at autocrossing.  And I got the event's 
'hard luck' trophy.  

I wish I'd have gotten a buck for each picture taken of my engine bay at that 
event.  Lots of people there had never seen a Judson supercharger.

Bill (Damdinger)


Bill
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 05:42:16 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:42:16 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>

Jack,

Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:      
www.Inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen
On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
>
> At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
>> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
>> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
>> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
>> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
>> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>> >
>> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
>> > group of
>> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
>> > but some
>> > is new to me at least.
>> >
>> > Jim Norlin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is 
>> Shell
>> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
>> > sure that
>> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
>> > JEG"S has
>> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
>> >
>> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds 
>> on
>> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
>> > reduced.
>> >
>> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
>> > engines
>> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
>> > the new
>> > oil formulations.
>> >
>> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
>> > attaching
>> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
>> > Here is a link:
>> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? > 
>> ListHistoryID=
>> > 1821071676>
>> >
>> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
>> > direct
>> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
>> > directly.
>> > It is very interesting.
>> >
>> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
>> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>> >
>> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward 
>> this
>> > to
>> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
>> > their
>> > monitor.
>> >
>> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
>> > break in,
>> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for 
>> maximum
>> > life
>> > in a racing engine.
>> >
>> > Larry Dent
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Fot mailing list
>> > Fot at autox.team.net
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> >
>> >
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> uncle jack
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 10 06:31:23 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:31:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 front suspension pieces
Message-ID: <399064.15381.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Does anyone on the list have spare GT6 vertical links w/stub axles, hubs, and calipers that they are willing to sell. I have a Spitfire in the shop that is coming to life as a racer which needs these pieces. I also need the GT6 rear brake backing plates as I sold/gave away all I had when we were making the Summers Bro's axles.
  Any help finding these bits is appreciated 
  Thanks - Ed


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Thu Jan 10 13:14:33 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:14:33 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
	<001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
Message-ID: <47867CA9.1000203@pp.inet.fi>

Yes, the mechanical tacho is not in operation. I have an electrical one 
on the steering column. The old one would go round anyway, as I use to 
change at 8000rpm and have the absolute mental limit at 8500.

Yes, on the last lap I made a a bit longer trip... I braked a bit too 
late and didn't want to risk anything, so I used the safety road. Most 
embarrassing would have been be stucking on the gravel trap between the 
track and safety road.

Regards
Jari

Rocky Entriken kirjoitti:
> Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.
>
> Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but 
> apparently that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice 
> drive in the wet.
>
> --Rocky Entriken
> #4 Spitfire (also 1147)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
> To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
>
>
>> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
>> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
>> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
>> there...
>>
>> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>>
>>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>>
>>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>>
>>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th 
>>>> overall
>>>> in the end.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Jari
>>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From emanteno at comcast.net  Thu Jan 10 14:03:07 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:03:07 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <011020082103.25315.4786880B000BD156000062E32200734364970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: BillDentin at aol.com 

> Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either. It saved me a lot of 
> embarrassment. I'm not that good at autocrossing. And I got the event's 
> 'hard luck' trophy. 

Yeah, as I recall, he was puttering around in the lot to let the engine warm up and then it just broke. I also remember that Bill labelled one of his other vehicles as a "TR_" whatever for the rest of the Convention.

Irv Korey


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Thu Jan 10 14:37:47 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:37:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire vs. big boys.
Message-ID: <02b501c853d1$0b303c80$3464a8c0@SIMON>

I seem to remember someone embarassing himself by getting stuck in a gravel
trap recently....at a rather crucial point of a rather important race.....chap
with a name like Hamilton or something similar?
Simon.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 17:16:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] EOS is Back
Message-ID: <7b246ee4cb318a0f78467358766ff347@wi.rr.com>

Good news! EOS is back. The story I was given is that the supplier for 
GM ceased production for whatever reason. A new supplier surfaced and 
the product is now back on the shelf. However, the price has doubled to 
$20 a bottle (16 oz.). I just bought a bottle today.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 05:17:13 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:17:13 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steering
Message-ID: <000d01c85382$bc0335c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956) TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net


From malaboge at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 00:15:30 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:15:30 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Steering
Message-ID: <8CA2238E1DDC1B4-9F8-3753@webmail-de10.sysops.aol.com>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956)
TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to
be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with
the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a
previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a
swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a
combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net
Steve-
Never mind the lock to lock criteria...Note the angles formed by the idler arm
and the steering drop arm (the one from the steering box), they should be the
same when the steering is straight ahead. B I can't recall if the arms are
actually pointed straight forward, or at an angle. BUT they should be parallel
or have the same angle off of straight ahead (although they will be degrees
left and right). B Does this make sense? B In Ascii this should look like /__\
B or |__|. B Set your steering up so that the arms are as above and use that
as the starting point. B Even up the toe while the arms are even and then deal
with the steering wheel. B The tie rods should be equal at this point. B You
may indeed have the steering drop arm on the box incorrectly, but that needs
to be checked with all the linkage disconnected from the drop arm, then you
can check the lock to lock issue.

2.5 degrees of negative camber is too much for most bias ply tires, they
usually don't work well with more than about 1 to 1.5 degrees negative camber.
B Which bushing style are you using, TR3? B If so, the metal bushings are
designed to be reamed to fit.

Off at an angle myself...
B B B B B B B B B B Nick in Nor Cal


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com


From tony at tonydrews.com  Fri Jan 11 07:25:46 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:25:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080111142352.8F0311879BA@autox.team.net>

Try this link - it's actually an L .
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

- Tony

At 06:42 AM 1/10/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Jack,
>
>Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:
>www.Inengineering.com/oil.html
>
>Allen
>On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
> > I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
> >
> > At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
> >> Joe,
> >>
> >> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
> >> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
> >>
> >> Allen
> >>
> >>
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> >> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> >> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> >> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> >> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
> >> >
> >> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
> >> > group of
> >> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
> >> > but some
> >> > is new to me at least.
> >> >
> >> > Jim Norlin
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is
> >> Shell
> >> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
> >> > sure that
> >> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
> >> > JEG"S has
> >> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
> >> >
> >> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds
> >> on
> >> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
> >> > reduced.
> >> >
> >> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
> >> > engines
> >> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
> >> > the new
> >> > oil formulations.
> >> >
> >> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
> >> > attaching
> >> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> >> > Here is a link:
> >> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? >
> >> ListHistoryID=
> >> > 1821071676>
> >> >
> >> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
> >> > direct
> >> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
> >> > directly.
> >> > It is very interesting.
> >> >
> >> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> >> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
> >> >
> >> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward
> >> this
> >> > to
> >> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
> >> > their
> >> > monitor.
> >> >
> >> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
> >> > break in,
> >> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for
> >> maximum
> >> > life
> >> > in a racing engine.


From DSPGTi at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 09:40:18 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:40:18 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>

There is a chance that a few of us might be attending the auction live. If  
there is anyone wanting a first hand description, let me know. I'll see if we  
can coordinate something.
 
Dave Y



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 12:22:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: feedback at ashland.com
> Date: January 11, 2008 9:55:46 AM CST
> To: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> Absolutely, the online product information sheets found at
> Valvoline.com, are currently the latest sheets available and the
> latest numbers for ZDDP.  The Valvoline VR1 is still the best oil.
>
>
>
> To:        VWEBMAIL at Ashland
> cc:        
>
> Subject:        Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> The following person submitted a question or comment via the Contact
> us form of type Ask Racing
>  First Name:  Allen
>  Last Name:  Washatko
>  Address1:  N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>  Address2:
>  City:  Cedarburg
>  State:  WI
>  Zip Code:  53012
>  Phone:  2623756888
>
> Email Address:  awashatko at wi.rr.com
>
> Comments:
>
> Are your oil product spec sheets current regarding the percentage of
> ZDDP?
>  I race a 1971 Triumph TR6 with flat tappets and it is critical to
> have the correct oil to protect my engine. I have been using Valvoline
> VR-1 and would like to confirm that the oil still has the proper ZDDP
> content.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
>  Timely maintenance of your vehicle is the best way to avoid costly
> repairs down the road and to keep your car running longer. Valvoline
> has introduced 'Vehicle Manager' to help you maintain and track your
> car maintenance.
>
>  Vehicle Manager:
>  -  - Provides car manufacturer (OEM) specifications and maintenance
> schedule
>  -  - Helps you manage and track services for multiple vehicles
>  -  - Keeps information readily available in a single, private
> environment
>  -  - Provides email reminders for services due
>
>  Visit www.vehiclemanager.com and take a test drive or register for
> this FREE service.
>
>  This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
> privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable
> law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying
> of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone
> at 1-800-TEAM-VAL. Thank you.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This electronic mail may contain information that is privileged,
> proprietary and confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. This transmission is intended solely for the
> individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, you should understand that any distribution, copying, or
> use of the information contained in this transmission by anyone other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately
> notify the sender and destroy all copies which you may have of this
> communication.
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 13:41:21 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:41:21 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>

Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
 
eBay item # 150204793158
 
Worth checking out! :-)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan 11 14:31:48 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <02a201c85499$5fc42a40$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Interesting car.  I spoke to a fellow last year that was going to chop up
one to make into a drag car and he said the wheel base was too short for
drag car spec.  I guess it needs to be a certain length.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Herald948 at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?


> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph
Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 15:01:26 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:01:26 EST
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
Message-ID: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the dash I 
am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various  switches, 
cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old one but it is in 
very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
 
Thanks,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 17:07:01 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:07:01 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brad Penn Oil Response
Message-ID: <e2c8348d8fb1df4bdee7855759704668@wi.rr.com>

Response to my request for specs on the oil.

Allen


Dear Allen,
Thank you for your inquiry about Penn Grade 1 racing oil. It seems that
the buzz of the industry today is the amount of ZDDP. Our racing oil,
The Green Oil, is being heavily requested by all racing segments
including historic, vintage and restoration/muscle cars; especially
engines using flat tappet cams.  We have been contacted by numerous
Triumph and Porsche Clubs concerning issues with some of todays motor
oils. With our racing oils, we did not reduce the level of ZDDP (zinc
anti-wear additive); in addition, we obtain a unique cut from our tower
that causes our racing oil to tenaciously cling to engine parts,
especially to flat tappet and roller cams minimizing wear in the
engine. Its just not the zinc but the proper additive balance that
separates our oil from the rest. With Cam manufactures such as ISKY,
CRANE, HOWARDS, CAM MOTION to name a few that our recommending our oil
we meet the test.  I have also copied by this e mail a BRAD PENN
distributor who can assist you with you lubricant needs. I have
attached a recent article that will give you some additional insight.
Thank you
 
Stone Lake  Oil
Keane Laakson
715-865-3443
 
Sincerely
Nick Dixon
 
BRAD PENN Lubricants
American Refining Group Inc.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils
The Green Oil.

 The term 100% Pure Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil has long carried
with it an industry connotation for being one of the best sources of
high quality lubricant base stocks in the world.  Our BRAD PENN.
refinery, the oldest continuously operating lube oil refinery in the
United States, still refines 100% Pennsylvania grade crude oil.  PA
grade crude oil is a very thermally stable paraffinic crude oil which
contains no asphaltic constituents.  This makes it an ideal choice from
which to refine premium quality base oils.  Because we use only one
crude stock, our refined products are of consistently high quality and
performance. 

BRAD PENN. brand products are truly MADE IN THE U.S.A.  American
Refining Groups Bradford, PA refinery is the home of The Green Oil.
that racers, engine builders and enthusiasts alike have all come to
know and love!  The unique green color and outstanding performance of
our Penn Grade 1 Racing oils set them apart from the competition.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils are formulated using a unique base
oil cut from our tower, which gives our PG 1 racing oils exceptional
film strength and unsurpassed metal wetting abilities.  This unique
base oil causes our PG 1 racing oil to cling tenaciously to engine
parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods
of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during
competition.  This same oil cling helps prevent dry-start
conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle
for extended periods.
BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils also contain highly effective
detergent and dispersant additives to guarantee exceptional engine
cleanliness as well as oxidation and foam inhibitors that offer
protection against thermal degradation and air entrainment.

In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of
zinc (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding
anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either flat
tappet or roller cams.  BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils have been
evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with
tremendous success. Many are now recommending our PG 1 racing oils to
provide outstanding protection for their flat tappet or roller cams.

The American Refining Group, Inc. offers a comprehensive line of BRAD
PENN. lubricants such as gear oil, grease and other items to meet the
majority of racing needs.  We also offer a complete line of lubricants
for todays passenger car, fleet, commercial and industrial
applications.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils:

Penn Grade 1. Break-In Oil
SAE 30 mono-grade oil formulated specifically to meet the critical
lubrication needs of new engines during break-in while allowing proper
seating of rings and component run-in.  Enhanced levels of zinc
(zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) and superior oil film
strength from Penn Grade base oils offer complete anti-wear,
anti-scuffing protection for even the most demanding of applications
such as those presented by break-in of engines with flat tappet cams.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 0W-30
A high-performance, lighter viscosity racing oil specifically designed
to maximize horsepower while protecting critical engine parts.  Penn
Grade base oils provide superior film strength while synthetic stocks
enhance performance throughout a wide range of operating temperatures
and conditions


Page 2



Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 10W-30
A truly versatile racing oil suitable for engines used both on the
street and/or the track.
The multi-viscosity grade and synthetic components facilitate cold
starting and quicker engine warm-up while insuring adequate engine
protection during competition.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 20W-50
Designed to offer higher performance racing engines the cold
temperature operational benefits of an SAE 20W engine oil while
providing the desired film strength; sealing abilities; bearing,
crankshaft, piston ring and valvetrain component anti-wear protection
of an SAE 50 weight oil at normal engine operating temperatures.

Penn Grade 1. SAE 50
Heavy viscosity, straight-grade motor oil designed to provide superior
lubrication to high-performance competition engines fueled by gasoline,
methanol or nitromethane.
Superior alcohol separation assures continual lubricant protection to
the engine.

Penn Grade 1. Nitro 70
High viscosity, high-performance motor oil engineered for use in
nitromethane or methanol fueled competition engines.  The heavy
viscosity and exceptional film strength provided by the Penn Grade
base oils helps protect against cylinder wash down and oil thinning
from fuel dilution typically encountered in these applications.

Penn Grade 1. Full Synthetic Hypoid Gear/Blower Racing Lubricant
A specially formulated 100% synthetic SAE 75W-90 oil designed for use
with self-contained systems where a SAE 75W, SAE 80W-90 or SAE 90 gear
oil is recommended.  Suitable for use in Roots and Lysholm screw-type
superchargers. May also be used in manual transmissions and hypoid
differentials.







 
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 21:56:47 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:56:47 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
Message-ID: <d6a.18595bfb.34b6ff8f@aol.com>

Thought this might be of interest given the recent discussion on oil.   
Enjoy!!  Gary



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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Subject: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
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Received some interesting information today.  Marc Haibeck of Addison, Ill. is
one of 4 technicians that work on the 1990-1995 ZR-1 Corvette engines and is
the only person in the world that works on them full time.  These are 32 valve
flat tappet engines.  Only a little over 5,000 of them were made.  Haibeck
became interested in AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil
(AMO) when he learned it is specifically designed to meet the needs of car
engines with flat tappets, such as those in the ZR-1.  He said " API
specifications do not meet the requirements of the ZR-1 engines.  The removal
of the EP additives makes the oil incompatible with the LT5 engines.  AMO
conforms to the SG specifications and I made a big discovery that as the oil
evolves it doesn't necessarily get better; it's simply changing."  He
recommends AMSOIL AMO for all flat tappet engines as "it is blended specially
to address this technical requirement.  AMSOIL solves the problem".  He
further stated, "Many of my customers were using Mobil 1 and I expected people
to resist the AMSOIL, but I have not had a single person question my
recommendation yet.
Guess the above sort of explains why I have mentioned the AMSOIL AMO as
something those of us with flat tappet engines ought to be considering.
API-SL rated oil is great for flat tappets but DO NOT use API-SM rated oils as
they do not have enough ZDDP.  I might also mention that Boyd Coddington has
now standardized all of his vehicles on AMSOIL products.

Bill
brinke at cebridge.net


From rjl6n at cstone.net  Fri Jan 11 15:42:03 2008
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:42:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
In-Reply-To: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3991.128.143.61.67.1200091323.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net>

> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)

Hmmmm, when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even funnier!

John


From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Jan 11 18:19:34 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
References: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478815A6.9090208@bradakis.com>

I assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little hamlet out in the country.

mjb.


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:28:00 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <d21.1d5fbcfa.34b971a0@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:42:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rjl6n at cstone.net writes:

Hmmmm,  when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross  rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one  (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even  funnier!



==AM==
My first reaction was that the drag world apparently has long since run out  
of old Anglias, Thames Panel Vans and Fiat Topolinos, all of which used to 
make  great dragsters back in the '60s!  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:34:38 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:34:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mark at bradakis.com writes:

I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.


==AM==
Every "twelfth night" or so?
 
I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
 
I'll stop now.
 
--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Billbab at mac.com  Fri Jan 11 23:10:07 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:10:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
References: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B59DE6A6-54C6-4944-BBBA-F5323F4D6DCF@mac.com>

Oh dear, someone let the punsters out.

On Jan 11, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Herald948 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark at bradakis.com writes:
>
> I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
> discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.
>
>
> ==AM==
> Every "twelfth night" or so?
>
> I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
>
> I'll stop now.
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,  
> Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and   
> Triumph Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660


From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Sat Jan 12 01:16:33 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:16:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:

> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
> From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156 at wi.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> FoT,
> 
> I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> 
> Allen

I am not in the least surprised by their response.

I suggest that you write back and tell them that since they are not prepared 
to grace your enquiry with an honest reply, you will have no alternative than 
to buy Amsoil, and advise all your racinng friends to do the same as they 
obviously have something to hide!

Leon

(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)

 
   </HTML>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sat Jan 12 07:01:39 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:01:39 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
In-Reply-To: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
References: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <200801121402.m0CE2EwH107282@ns3.geneseo.net>

About a year ago I went 'round and 'round with Castrol. Same deal. 
They gave me three answers in a row that said everything was 
"adequate" or "exceeds", yada yada. Then I got through to a personal 
friend who works for a distributor, we found their actual spec sheet, 
and sure enough, not enough ZDDP for us.

Since then he has sent me their news release about a special Syntec 
for racing -- but no news on where to get it.

At 02:16 AM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
>In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:
>
> > FoT,
> >
> > I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> > for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> >
> > Allen
>
>
>(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>uncle jack


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 11:16:33 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>

Hello carb enthusiasts,  I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the
Renault Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project.  The stock Gordini Solex wont fit due
to the positioning of the head faring and the engine.  My best solution is to
fit a SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my own
construction.  The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because
it fits so nicely?  Important details:  The engine is an 850cc Renault that
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia.  the diameter of the stock carb throat
is 1.259",  the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125".  Am I making a big
mistake going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi downdraft?
Thanks in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of
this list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their
desparaging and denegrading remarks concerning
Renaults....................Cheers Henry Morrison, Cedar Crest,  New Mexico
Check out the Bunce Buck at
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars


From jerrypoole at arkansas.net  Sat Jan 12 11:27:33 2008
From: jerrypoole at arkansas.net (jerrypoole at arkansas.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:27:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
Message-ID: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>

Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items? 
Thanks, Jerry


From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan 12 11:43:57 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:43:57 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
In-Reply-To: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
References: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
Message-ID: <20080112184221.32190187A44@autox.team.net>

Here's Comp Cam's solid lifters page from their catalog:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html

- Tony

At 12:27 PM 1/12/2008, jerrypoole at arkansas.net wrote:
>Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
>0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items?
>Thanks, Jerry


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sat Jan 12 11:50:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:50:09 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Press Release by Classic Motorsports-Watkins Glen
	2008
Message-ID: <ca2.231a4fd0.34ba65e1@cs.com>

Well! Here is the first press release by our sponsor, Classic Motorsports.

A nice version with a picture of Joe Richards TR2 TS 1 LO can be found at:
ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup

(The FoT will be honoring Joe Richards and his family, along with his very 
historical TR2.  Likewise, the Village of Watkins Glen has found a place of 
honor in their weekend program)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
For release: Immediately 
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup Vintage Race

It's like a planetary alignment for Triumph fans, only way cooler, since you 
can actually see it: Hundreds of historic Triumphs from around the globe are 
converging on Watkins Glen September 3-7 for the Kastner Cup Vintage Race, 
presented by Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors. 

Among the luminaries will be the famed Group 44 factory race cars, the first 
production Triumph sports car, and - of course - Kas Kastner, the legendary 
Triumph tuner, racer and head of the North American Triumph Competition 
Department.

It's all part of the Sportscar Vintage Racing Association's U.S. Vintage 
Grand Prix, the Grand Prix the largest vintage race weekend in the east. Kastner 
will present the Kastner Cup to the racer who best embodies the spirit of the 
marque and the event for the award. He'll also be on hand to assist racers and 
talk to fans of the marque.

TS01, a 1953 TR2 that holds the distinction of being the first production 
Triumph sports car off the line, will also be there. Joe Richards, who 
painstakingly restored TSO1 to its historic original specs, will be honored by Friends 
of Triumph, the North America-based group of Triumph racers and race fans.

Triumph enthusiasts and racers will also be welcomed into the Friends of 
Triumph Hospitality Tent and into the town of Watkins Glen, where the local 
Chamber of Commerce organizes the yearly Grand Prix Festival on Friday. 

Triumph enthusiasts have an opportunity to enter in a Triumph-only road 
rally, and selected SVRA race cars will make a trip down from the track, park on 
display, and then take parade laps of the original 6.6 mile street circuit. 

For more information on this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing 
go to ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup or contact Tim Baxter at 
baxter at classicmotorsports.net.


Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site,  classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292. 
   </HTML>


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 12:10:49 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:10:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little guys
will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I think
it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> Subject:
RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:54:57 -0700>
> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 1.25">
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> for
attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> engine.
I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> >
Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello carb
enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to the
positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> fit a
SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because>
it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the>
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> throat>
is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> mistake
going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> Thanks
in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> desparaging
and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers Henry
Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 12:16:23 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail 
happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
 http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.


> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little 
> guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I 
> think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> 
> Subject:
> RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 
> 11:54:57 -0700>
>> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 
>> 1.25">
> (HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> 
> for
> attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> 
> engine.
> I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> 
>  >
> Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
> fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
> dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
> fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello 
> carb
> enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
> Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to 
> the
> positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> 
> fit a
> SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
> construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job 
> because>
> it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
> doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, 
> the>
> stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> 
> throat>
> is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> 
> mistake
> going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> 
> Thanks
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> 
> desparaging
> and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers 
> Henry
> Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
> http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
> _______________________________________________>
> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 13:19:08 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W297BB335564DEC4A50508490440@phx.gbl>

Who knows how it's gonna drive, rest assured the first time out I'll go in
full battle dress..............Cheers Henry > From: S.Janzen at comcast.net> To:
dos_gusanos at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU
enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500> > The Bunce Buck is an
interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail > happy. The gallery is
fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars> ----- Original Message
----- > From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>> To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>;
<fot at autox.team.net>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM> Subject: Re:
[Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > > > Thanks for the offer, but as I look
at it, I think two of these little > > guys> > will fit. Based on the
performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I > > think> > it's the way to
go. Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side> > draft.........Henry> From:
spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> > > Subject:> > RE: [Fot] question
for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 > > 11:54:57 -0700>> >> I don't
know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a > >> 1.25">> >
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> > >
for> > attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit>
> > engine.> > I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI>
manifold.> > > >> > Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original
Message-----> From:> > fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>> >
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>> >
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:> >
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello > >
carb> > enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the>
Renault> > Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit>
due> to > > the> > positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best
solution is> to> > > fit a> > SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either)
on a manifold of my> own>> > construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8"
side draft do the job > > because>> > it fits so nicely? Important details:
The engine is an 850cc Renault that>> > doesn't like to go much over 4700
rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, > > the>> > stock manifold runners are
1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> > > throat>> > is 1.259", the
diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> > > mistake> > going
with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> > > Thanks>
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this>
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> > >
desparaging> > and denegrading remarks concerning>
Renaults....................Cheers > > Henry> > Morrison, Cedar Crest, New
Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>> >
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>> >
_______________________________________________>> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>> >
_______________________________________________> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > > >


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:36:45 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BB6E9DA1-EF42-4F96-8209-05A1C2C8D499@earthlink.net>

I just happen to have what you need Henry - a pair of 1 1/8s I could  
bring them by your office next week if you like.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM

On Jan 12, 2008, at 12:10 PM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these  
> little guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two  
> carbs, I think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sat Jan 12 15:43:32 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <20080112.154332.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Henry,
That's a very cool project!
The SU sounds like an excellent place to start.
Bill 


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:59:20 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:59:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Part needed - others available.
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
References: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <739D9999-01AB-43AF-994E-C64B6B363D34@earthlink.net>

Hi Gary,
I just went and looked at the plinth you need on a '65 I have. It's a  
bit unusual to me in that it is covered in leather [could be vinyl  
but doesn't look like it]. The covering is shrunk enough to look like  
it was factory done. I've never noticed one covered like this before.  
The underlying plastic looks to be good but one won't know until the  
covering comes off, not to mention the glue attaching it. Let me know  
if this might work for you.
The car it is attached to is destined to be a parts car unless some  
FoT needs a rusty/crusty [by New Mexico standards - needs rockers and  
some floor repair] racer candidate.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:01 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote:

> I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of   
> the dash I
> am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various   
> switches,
> cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old  
> one but it is in
> very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Fuqua
> Classic Sports Cars
> Branson, MO
> _gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From rjl at gt-classics.com  Sat Jan 12 16:50:01 2008
From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <E1JDq4m-0005QF-00@pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At 02:16 PM 1/12/2008, Scott Janzen wrote:
>The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail
>happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
>  http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars

Pretty cool, thanks.  I was definitely excited to see the Moretti.
I used to own a Moretti, but a different model than that one.  I'll
bet the Ken Gillanders can tell us some stories from his H-mod
days...


R. John Lye

rjl6n at cstone.net 


From Billbab at mac.com  Sat Jan 12 09:20:49 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:20:49 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cheap billet cranks a possibility
References: <1200145289.1631.21224.m45@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <5E0BAFE7-7768-4506-A803-9A4E1A068F16@mac.com>

This conversation is going on at the MGVR user group. I don't have the
time to coordinate chasing something like this down, but a $800 billet
crank that was GOOD would be a godsend. If the FOT hooked up with them
it would make the business more attractive for the chinese manufacturer.


Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660



Begin forwarded message:

> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Date: January 12, 2008 5:41:29 AM PST
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Digest Number 1854
> Reply-To: "No Reply"<notify-dg-MGVR at yahoogroups.com>
>
> MGVR
> Messages In This Digest (7 Messages)
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: wihiii at aol.com
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: Manley.L Ford
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: mga221
> View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:48 am (PST)
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl. and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although
> they look good. He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that
> they could duplicate. I'll ask for references here in the US. If you
> have any other suggestions please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot
> less that the SB crankshafts made in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but
> the quality and the unknown mfg. is the question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote: I do not know anything
> about this company in China, but I can tell you that, for China,
> $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot
> of world class work  and they also do a lot of junk. You have to
> know who you are dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:54 pm (PST)
>
> UK prices are crazy high. I do a lot of my racing in the UK and am
> familiar
> with UK vs USA prices. A BRM V8 crank in the UK is $10,000. The USA
> price
> for a crank every bit as good is about $3,000. Same for foundry work
> - UK
> prices three to four times USA prices. Just today we needed to have
> a 1959
> Cadillac crankshaft turned - here in the UK, the price was nearly
> $1,000.
> For $100, we will ship a good used crank from the USA instead.
>
> We ship things from the USA to the UK all the time to save money. The
> radiator on my wife's Grand Cherokee jeep recently split a seam. UK
> price
> for a new one was three times the USA price. We shipped one from the
> USA by
> air and still saved one third.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of paul
> flanery
> Sent: 11 January 2008 19:49
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl.
> and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although they
> look good.
> He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that they could
> duplicate.
> I'll ask for references here in the US. If you have any other
> suggestions
> please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot less that the SB
> crankshafts made
> in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but the quality and the unknown mfg.
> is the
> question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I do not know anything about this company in China, but I can tell
> you that,
> for China, $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business
> in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more
> realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you
> KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot of world
> class work
> - and they also do a lot of junk. You have to know who you are
> dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "wihiii at aol.com" wihiii at aol.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:00 pm (PST)
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:58 pm (PST)
>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "Manley.L Ford" Manley.L.Ford at trw.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:24 pm (PST)
>
> Dean's $1300 is a bit better price than my recent experience - must
> be you have a volume discount, Dean!
> -Manley
>
> >>> "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> 1/11/2008 5:04 PM >>>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:07 pm (PST)
>
> Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> Paul
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot
> recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think something
> like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "mga221" carndrew at aol.com   mga221
> Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:03 am (PST)
>
> --- In MGVR at yahoogroups.com, paul flanery <paullflanery at ...> wrote:
> >Whitey from Moldex made up a crankshaft for me two years ago. Cost
> was about $1,800. Balanced, nitrited, and counter weights knife edged.
> > Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> > Paul
> >
> > edeanbutler <edeanbutler at ...> wrote:
> > I should have said in my last email that we use
> Moldex almost exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable.
> I cannot recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think
> something like $1300.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of wihiii at ...
> > Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> > To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
> >
> >
> > I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG
> crankshafts.
> >
> > Bill Hollingsworth
> >
> > I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race
> engine.
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
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From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:11:51 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:11:51 +1000
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081149.NZCK16973.oaamta01sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

Don't be too hasty to condem Chinese products. Its like saying anything
British or US made is junk. We all know there are good and bad.
The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent. They use certified steels and make
the parts on the same CNC machines we use in 1st world nations. 
One of their top end crank manufacturers supplies are large number of
well-known US & Australian performance  firms.  I've looked at their cranks
and rods (which use ARP fastners exclusively), and visually, they are to the
best you would find. I know people here using this firms cranks in 1000hp
nitrous fed drag engines, so they cant be that bad. Being in the engine
trade, we soon work out what is good and what is not. 
Having said all that, if billet cranks are around US$1000, its worth
investigating. 
Terry O'Beirne


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:18:25 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:18:25 +1000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
lives and modifications than I care to think about
I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving heaps
of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
this?? 
If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted to
hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily ditch
the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
Thanks a lot
Terry O'Beirne
Australia


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 08:01:27 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:01:27 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Billet Cranks
Message-ID: <39c86405da6c1fe57030e92cb37be5a3@wi.rr.com>

I wouldn't have the time either to take this to orders but I certainly 
would be a customer for a TR6 billet crank.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Sun Jan 13 14:23:51 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:23:51 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>

I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 15:26:13 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
References: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <001201c85633$4ed48310$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

On my GT6 that shaft sits pretty darn close to horizontal. The lower link 
that runs forward to the frame on my car has rod ends, giving me a way to 
adjust castor/toe, as does the inboard end of the lower wishbone (modified 
by being cut short, wtih a nut welded on to thread in a rod end).  Each end 
of the leaf spring has a spherical bearing in it, with tubular spacers to 
locate it on the bolt.  Spring pressure seems to keep the bearing firmly in 
place.
As to the "castor",  my guess is that with the lower locating link pulling 
on the front/bottom of the hub, you may get a little toe-in/positive camber 
action under hard braking or inside wheel lift or vice versa as a result of 
the castor, depending on the arc of all the parts.  Unfortunately with the 
leaf spring as the upper link it's really hard to move the suspension 
through its motions, though I have tried by jacking up the rear end and by 
jacking up one side or the other under the wishbone to mimic suspension 
travel.
Hope this helps - if there is a significant inclination I'd say something is 
off, though those wishbones don't look very bendable.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry and Cindy" <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query


> I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
> lives and modifications than I care to think about
> I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
> note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
> horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving 
> heaps
> of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
> another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
> this??
> If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted 
> to
> hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily 
> ditch
> the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
> Thanks a lot
> Terry O'Beirne
> Australia
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 13 15:37:21 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:37:21 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <20080113.153722.3916.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Very impressed with Castrol SuperClean. Used a predecessor of it 30 years
before it was released that was amazing stuff, as well. Keep it off your
skin. Do not breath a mist of it. Always amazed how well it worked on my
TR- 8 Alloys. Even when they didn't look all that dirty, a quick spray
and hosing off with cold water brightened them right up.
Never got to play with an ultrasonic cleaner. Pure water should be very
effective with that. Would use the purple stuff with caution in the US
unit.
Bill 


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 17:00:59 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:00:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <000601c85640$8b9124e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, I use a product from McMaster-Carr, Cleveland, OH. 330 995-5500
www.mcmaster.com
It's Solvent-plus-lanolin formula, pn 3229K1 at about $45.00 for 5 gallons.
It doesn't tear up your hands or parts. It also comes in a High-flash- point
formula for a few extra bucks. It appears to be made by Graymills, who do a
lot with cleaning supplies. I use it in a small parts washer, not US. The
parts go directly in it.
M-C is a very good company to do business with. Their catalog is 3600 pages.
They ship quickly and reasonably. Lots of good products.
I  have no financial interest in them; just very satisfied with their
products and service.
Hope this helps,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  Vintage TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charly Mitchel" <charly at mitchelplumbing.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:23 PM
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with
an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone
been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you
can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with
it.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From srcypher at mac.com  Sun Jan 13 17:12:17 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer))
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:12:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
Message-ID: <57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>

> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover  
> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow  
> dry.
>
> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a  
> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>
> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear  
> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple  
> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>
> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the  
> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath  
> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer  
> to monitor temps
>
> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>
> Thanks
> -S
>
> Scott Cypher
> SCCA # 362573
> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially  
>> with an
>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>> cleaner?
>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different  
>> applications?
>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has  
>> anyone been
>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode  
>> the
>> aluminum?
>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or  
>> if you can
>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting  
>> with it.
>> Charly Mitchel
>> TR6 #44
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 13 17:33:07 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:33:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>

Terry and Cindy wrote:

> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.

Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
heading for a moon landing within the decade.

Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
to develop a sense of aesthetics.

Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
Chinese, US or otherwise.

Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 13 20:57:18 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <646804.54708.qm@web81712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bio-diesel is my new favorite parts cleaner.  It is a bit passive - if you can let it soak for a few hours you will be amazed.  I don't think that it is harmful to the user - may end up smelling like your local chinese restaurant though.
   
  Dennis DeLap
   
  

Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com> wrote:
  I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results. Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts? Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 21:43:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:43:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Rod Stretch
Message-ID: <13987d670ee723c60ddc7e1f9e95e69c@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Anyone have knowledge of how much stretch there is with a TR6 
rod/piston assembly at 7000 RPM and beyond? I'm down to my gasket 
thickness (.028) and need about .020 to get to my CR goal.

Allen

P.S.
I can just imagine what Bill Dentinger will have to say about the 
"Subject" title above!


Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan 13 21:50:10 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
	<57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <010b01c85668$f12d8960$d214c548@RW>

I used and still use lacquer thinner as a cleaning agent.  Have it in a 
squirt bottle. Cleans like crazy and dries quickly.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)" <srcypher at mac.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Cleaning parts


>> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover
>> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow
>> dry.
>>
>> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a
>> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>>
>> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear
>> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple
>> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>>
>> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the
>> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath
>> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer
>> to monitor temps
>>
>> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>>
>> Thanks
>> -S
>>
>> Scott Cypher
>> SCCA # 362573
>> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
>> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially
>>> with an
>>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>>> cleaner?
>>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different
>>> applications?
>>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has
>>> anyone been
>>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode
>>> the
>>> aluminum?
>>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or
>>> if you can
>>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting
>>> with it.
>>> Charly Mitchel
>>> TR6 #44
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 23:38:12 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>

Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]


From wensley_Tr at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 06:58:47 2008
From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
References: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00c301c856b5$962251c0$0200a8c0@Desktop>

Did you say you drove the Tr


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] cheap billet cranks


> Terry and Cindy wrote:
> 
>> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.
> 
> Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
> not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
> heading for a moon landing within the decade.
> 
> Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
> to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
> best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
> to develop a sense of aesthetics.
> 
> Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
> for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
> their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
> Chinese, US or otherwise.
> 
> Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 07:34:08 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:34:08 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <c26.27c09ed9.34bccce0@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/13/2008 3:26:01 PM Central Standard Time, 
charly at mitchelplumbing.com writes:


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you 
> can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
> Charly Mitchel
> 

Charly...

No experience  with an ultrasonic cleaner in the shop (we've got the old 
fashioned squirt gun type), but I have one for my dentures.  Works great.  Much 
better than soaking with those pellets.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 08:00:30 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:00:30 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fting brake discs?
Message-ID: <d54.204df23e.34bcd30e@aol.com>

Amici, 
To tap the wellspring of knowledge here,  What's the idea behind the floating 
brake discs as seen on high end racecars?  To reduce heat transfer to the 
hubs?  Make alighnment less critical?  Enquiring minds wanna know...Steve



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From jeff_durant at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 10:12:28 2008
From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:12:28 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <1332583019-1200330919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1729101526-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jim,
I've used different motorcycle fork oil weights over the years and found 40 wt. works well in my street TR250.  Heavier for the TR6 racer.  If your seals are weak, you will blow them out however.  I believe Apple Hydralics sells uprated seals suitable for heavier weight fluid.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
#12 TR6 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "jim hearn" <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 
To:"'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Mon Jan 14 10:20:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:20:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDPlus info
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820C0F58E2@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I have received a sample bottle, information flyers and Dealer pricing
for ZDDPlus that was talked about on the list last week. If anyone would
like a pdf of the flyers send me an email and I'll send it to you. The
product lists for $9.95 for a 4 ounze bottle  which is good for one oil
change.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Mon Jan 14 11:41:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:41:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] FRANK LAND Quick Change Rear End   -  IRS    ????
Message-ID: <c83.1b4b4429.34bd06c1@cs.com>

FoT,

I am going to be looking at a quick change rear that I have acquired.  It is 
an IRS style with TR-250 modified axles attached to it.

I have no plans for it, but wanted to look it over and learn something from 
it.  

Does anyone have specific knowledge of these rear ends? I did find a website.

Thanks!  Joe A   </HTML>


From WEmery7451 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:10:54 2008
From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:10:54 EST
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:

<< Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be  functio
nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?  Thanks
, Jim in Sacramento >>

We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 40
or 50 weight.
**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
shape.
     http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 20:43:47 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:43:47 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01c8565f$abf4fb20$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for
solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used
widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why
don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it
produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <WEmery7451 at aol.com>
To: <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


> In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:
>
> << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functio
> nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?
Thanks
> , Jim in Sacramento >>
>
> We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
40
> or 50 weight.
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
>      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:51:28 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:51:28 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
Message-ID: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>

I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly 12
years.
Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around the
house.

I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
bio-diesel is
2 hours away from me.  Sigh.

Shane Ingate in remote NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From westerneagleracing at att.net  Mon Jan 14 13:18:15 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:18:15 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <011420082018.15125.478BC3870006F01600003B1522218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

Good questions.  Does anyone have the answers and the availablity.  I would use it too.  The smell is so much a part of the 60's racing.  I last used it in my 64 Lotus Elan in the late 60's.
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>: -------------- 


> Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for 
> solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used 
> widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why 
> don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it 
> produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable. 
> Steve P. 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks 
> 
> 
> > In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> > jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: 
> > 
> > << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be 
> functio 
> > nal rear racing shocks? If so, what is the suggested replacement oil? 
> Thanks 
> > , Jim in Sacramento >> 
> > 
> > We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
> 40 
> > or 50 weight. 
> > ************** 
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in 
> > shape. 
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> > Fot mailing list 
> > Fot at autox.team.net 
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 21:24:17 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:24:17 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
Steve P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
12
> years.
> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
the
> house.
>
> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>
> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Mon Jan 14 14:26:37 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF6381@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> Problem
> is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.

There's bound to be a greasy spoon nearer than that ... beg their french-fry
grease then setup a converter in your garage.

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From tedtsimx at bright.net  Mon Jan 14 14:40:58 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:58 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of 
up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Mon Jan 14 14:55:00 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>

Hi all!

Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
good ole' USA!

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
-event-picture-thread.html

I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
into other cars:

"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."

What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application
hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Mon Jan 14 15:01:20 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:01:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile solvents
as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the localized
surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature 5000degrees F.
With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in this type of
cleaner.
The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous solvents
for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks and
crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is scraped of
first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good degreaser and
wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that Simple
green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also wondering if
tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
<fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for
in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a
good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it
in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
> > I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
nearly
> 12
> > years.
> > Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
carbs.
> > It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
around
> the
> > house.
> >
> > I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
nearest
> > bio-diesel is
> > 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
> >
> > Shane Ingate in remote NM
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 15:20:26 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:20:26 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
	<005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <5472DE90-6E74-4C4C-880F-D5DDB0420A37@earthlink.net>

One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
**Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
the trick.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 14, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote:

> With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile  
> solvents
> as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the  
> localized
> surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature  
> 5000degrees F.
> With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in  
> this type of
> cleaner.
> The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous  
> solvents
> for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
> creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks  
> and
> crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is  
> scraped of
> first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good  
> degreaser and
> wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that  
> Simple
> green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also  
> wondering if
> tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
> To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
> <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is  
>> called for
> in
>> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user  
>> friendly, a
> good
>> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also  
>> burn it
> in
>> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
>> Steve P.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>>
>>
>>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
> nearly
>> 12
>>> years.
>>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
> carbs.
>>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
> around
>> the
>>> house.
>>>
>>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
> nearest
>>> bio-diesel is
>>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>>
>>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>>
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html? 
> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 14 15:22:31 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:22:31 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <016b01c856fb$f4cf3760$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Ordinary pump diesel is also an excellent parts cleaner. Slightly different number on the Redwood 
scale but just as effective as paraffin (kero)

Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


>I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
> 12
>> years.
>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
> the
>> house.
>>
>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
>> bio-diesel is
>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>
>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 15:36:44 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:36:44 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <cf7.26654838.34bd3dfc@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/14/2008 4:23:35 PM Central Standard Time, 
Lunkercars at earthlink.net writes:


> One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
> Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
> iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
> idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
> from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
> **Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
> has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
> underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
> original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
> the trick.
> 

Absolutely.  Vinegar is acid.  I logged over 45 years in the masonry 
business.  The state of Wisconsin will not allow you to wash fresh face brick work 
with acid.  A solvent made from 10% muriatic acid and 90% water is the 
traditional wash down used by mason contractors for washing fresh brickwork.  And used 
properly by professionals it works just fine.  But the state would not let you 
use it on their buildings.  You have to use 'similar' to remove mortar smears, 
so on state jobs we used to use vinegar in a spray bottle.  When inspectors 
used to ask, "Hey what the heck is that stuff you're using?", my guys used to 
spray it in their own  mouths, and answer, "It's nothing that will hurt me and 
it won't hurt a brick wall either."

Bill Dentinger.
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From dave at microworks.net  Mon Jan 14 16:44:51 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
References: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <20080114235016.YDMZ18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The rules are fantastic.  Worth reading the site just for them

At 02:55 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
>and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
>good ole' USA!
>
>http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/
>
>And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
>http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
>-event-picture-thread.html
>
>I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
>car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
>into other cars:
>
>"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
>for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."
>
>What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(
>
>Keep Triumphing,
>Susan    :)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application
>hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From sean.green at seawestproducts.com  Mon Jan 14 16:58:45 2008
From: sean.green at seawestproducts.com (Sean Green)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:58:45 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <478BF735.3020906@seawestproducts.com>

I gave up on lever shocks a few years ago on my TR-6 that I use for 
autocross. I switched to a single adjustable SPAX shock (available in a 
conversion kit from RevingtonTR in the UK) and liked that a little 
better. They lasted about a season before I had to replace them. The 
shock I'm using now is an Ohlins double adjustable. It's a very good 
unit. I was finally able to tame the car with those. They are on the 
expensive side, about $800 each, but I think they're worth it. There 
will be a pair in the front too when I finish my restoration.

-Sean Green
71 Triumph TR-6


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 14 18:32:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:32:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>

FoT Brain Trust,

I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I 
wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would 
fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new 
cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in 
the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member 
approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good 
starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 21:19:05 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>
Message-ID: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>

Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schumacher [mailto:tedtsimx at bright.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:41 PM
To: jim hearn
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested
replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which
had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of

up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 14 21:33:39 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:33:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478C37A3.3040505@bradakis.com>

We have a customer who's restoring an MGC.  Powder coated this,
that and the other.  Lever shocks, or at least the seals and oil within,
do not stand up well to the heat of curing.  Too bad he didn't just ask
us first!

mjb.


From triosan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 22:21:53 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:21:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
In-Reply-To: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
References: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801142121ua2f9bd0re56ead7e0c03b7b7@mail.gmail.com>

Allen,
Did not get to the car tonight -- can you believe it snowed in Seattle and
my storage/garage is 20 miles to the east [more snow].  Should be sunny and
warmer tomorrow so I will get you your brake information.

As to the fuel cell -- the best I have seen is how Tony Garmey built
supports to hold a cell in John James's TR4.  He welded triangular plates to
the roll bar extensions that extended to the bolts on the sides of the
cell.  He then bolted the cell to the plates.  His boss flipped a car with a
cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
over can be real vicious.  I was doing corner work this summer when an RX7
rolled twice sidewards then once end to end.  IT was amazing how much stuff
tore loose.  Very lucky driver given that he ended up upside down,
unconscious, and the muffler had punctured the fuel cell setting it on
fire.  He was lucky because the rear of the car was downhill from him so
flames went away.  And he was directly in front of a corner station.  It was
also amazing to see the skill of the track saftey workers as they cut him
loose from the belts, worked him sidewards and got him out the pasenger
side.  The driver did suffer a mild concussion, a broken arm and smoke
inhalation [the latter being the most serious long term problem].  Still in
all, the safety cage, belts and Hans did there job admirably well.

On Jan 14, 2008 5:32 PM, Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:

> FoT Brain Trust,
>
> I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I
> wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would
> fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new
> cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in
> the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member
> approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good
> starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold


From neil at revingtontr.com  Tue Jan 15 03:04:18 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:04:18 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153BD5@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

We keep this part in thin fibreglass under the original part number of
706882
The black gel coat is indistinguishable from the original plastic part
See
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
GSFuqua1 at aol.com
Sent: 11 January 2008 22:01
To: fot at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the
dash I am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various
switches, cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the
old one but it is in very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could
help me out?

Thanks,

Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GRMTim at aol.com  Tue Jan 15 10:53:57 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:53:57 EST
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <d41.1f82e080.34be4d35@aol.com>

We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.

Here's the official release.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
series.

LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
appeal, and
implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.

The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
coverage
than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
least
expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
and
affordable competition.

"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
budget-conscious
prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
like this in real life."

After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."

As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
testament
to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."

With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
and
new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
than
available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.





**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:44:40 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2840BE6DA96119469A9EAE8C470@phx.gbl>

Chuck Arnold wrote:

> As to the fuel cell...  His boss flipped a car with a
> cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
> They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
> over can be real vicious.

Great balls of fire, Batman!  Thats one area that I figured that if I
engineered  it better than stock, it should be good to go, but this has
given me grounds for pause.

In my setup (impossible to see in the next pic)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3911/2002/1600/FuelSafe.jpg
I borrowed a trick from the bolt-in rollbar crowd and sandwiched
the sheet metal holding the braces between 1/4" steel thick strapping.
I'm no-longer convinced that this will prevent 150 lbs of cell and fuel
from wanting to leave it's cosy little home during a hard roll.

Thinking cap on!

Shane Ingate, retreating to his Batcave, in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:48:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:48:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Re fuel cell mounting in a TR
Message-ID: <BLU127-W1368BD1EE17A197BCBDE8F8C470@phx.gbl>

Sorry.  Senior moment.  3/8" thick steel strapping, not 1.4".

Shane


_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M
ediaCtr_bigscreen_012008


From koblinger at verizon.net  Tue Jan 15 12:27:22 2008
From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:27:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount. 

Cheers,
Kurt O. (running for cover)


>From: GRMTim at aol.com
>Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!

>We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
>of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>
>Here's the official release.
>
>Tim Suddard
>Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>www.classicmotorsports.net
>www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
>The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
>now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
>series.
>
>LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
>appeal, and
>implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
>up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
>to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
>a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>
>The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
>coverage
>than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
>least
>expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
>with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
>and
>affordable competition.
>
>"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
>seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
>PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>budget-conscious
>prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
>like this in real life."
>
>After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
>raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
>up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
>shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>
>As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
>celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
>founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
>professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>testament
>to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."
>
>With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
>and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
>Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
>and
>new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
>than
>available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
>returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
>teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
>plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From westerneagleracing at att.net  Tue Jan 15 13:51:18 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:51:18 +0000
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <011520082051.29128.478D1CC60001A75C000071C822228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

If you want to get a little extra use out of your $500.00 car, Martin Swig puts on the annual Double 500 - 500k of beautiful norther California roads in a car that can't cost more than $500.00
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "spitfiresuz at 141.com" <spitfiresuz at 141.com>: -------------- 


> Hi all! 
> 
> Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car 
> and all that? Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the 
> good ole' USA! 
> 
> http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/ 
> 
> And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures): 
> http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official 
> -event-picture-thread.html 
> 
> I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the 
> car! And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running 
> into other cars: 
> 
> "This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator 
> for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone." 
> 
> What fun!! Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast. :( 
> 
> Keep Triumphing, 
> Susan :) 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application 
> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan 15 14:31:05 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:31:05 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>

I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
Nordschleife.
I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 640
oil.
You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to move
it.

A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
them from time to time.

Cheers
Chris


    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim


From trmarty at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 17:55:18 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:55:18 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FOT short one friend
In-Reply-To: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
References: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY123-W42837029B3DFEB13E332F1BA400@phx.gbl>

Sorry to report fellow FOT Ed Ceilley passed away yesterday. Lost his battle
with the big C. Richardson Funeral Home in Cedar Falls Iowa is handling the
arrangements and services will be this Saturday at St. Patrick's church in
Cedar Falls Iowa at 10:30.  Keep Yvonne in your thoughts.

Marty Sukey

_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From tr4.tony at virgin.net  Wed Jan 16 01:35:13 2008
From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:35:13 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
Message-ID: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>

Hi

I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - you can 
set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. These 
are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.

Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and give me 
24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the top of 
the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.

I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good results 
on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough surfaces 
(where the car struggles generally).

A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the MGB) 
and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good and FIA 
legal.

Regards

Tony


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


>I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
> Nordschleife.
> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 
> 640
> oil.
> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to 
> move
> it.
>
> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
> them from time to time.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>
>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan 16 05:46:44 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:46:44 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
	<001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
Message-ID: <8acf727aef083b5c8526f82ebb0214de@wi.rr.com>

World Wide Auto sells a modified lever arm shock that has an adjuster 
valve built in. Contact: http://www.nosimport.com/?

Allen

On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:35 AM, TR4Tony wrote:

> Hi
>
> I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - 
> you can
> set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. 
> These
> are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.
>
> Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and 
> give me
> 24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the 
> top of
> the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.
>
> I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good 
> results
> on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough 
> surfaces
> (where the car struggles generally).
>
> A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the 
> MGB)
> and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good 
> and FIA
> legal.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
> To: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
>
>
>> I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
>> Nordschleife.
>> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and 
>> EP
>> 640
>> oil.
>> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to
>> move
>> it.
>>
>> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. 
>> Retighten
>> them from time to time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan 17 05:52:26 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
Message-ID: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>

Dateline Atlanta....

Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.

Joe A
Enroute to Florida
Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 17 06:53:12 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:53:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
In-Reply-To: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
References: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
Message-ID: <ae072ea28db9c9ff5f249e68aa7d4cf9@wi.rr.com>

Great to have another Architect in the group. Welcome Richard.
What kind of car?

Allen - AIA
On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:52 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> Dateline Atlanta....
>
> Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
> Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.
>
> Joe A
> Enroute to Florida
> Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From twakeman at razzolink.com  Thu Jan 17 07:32:32 2008
From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:32:32 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Looking for SU HD8
Message-ID: <478F6700.4030205@razzolink.com>

I have a friend who dropped a cylinder head with intake & carb attached 
on the carb.

Does anyone have a single SU HD8 on a shelf gathering dust that they are 
willing to sell?  Ted?

It is a single carb off a Rover six cylinder engine but was used on Jags 
& performance big Healeys & the likes.

Speaking of which I don't supose anyone has a good condition 3L Rover 
six from a P4 sitting around being used as a door stop?

TeriAnn


From spitlist at cox.net  Fri Jan 18 12:04:57 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:04:57 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fw: Engine Bearings
Message-ID: <002301c85a05$0467b1a0$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I just got this message and thought it might be interesting to Spitfire owners
on the list.

Joe C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Basil Adams
To: spitlist at cox.net
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:46 AM
Subject: Engine Bearings


I just had a customer (a large supplier of British parts) tell me that
Spitfire engine bearings have become scarce.  I wondered why someone bought 24
sets of old-stock Vandervells from me recently.  If you want to let your
members know, I have more available for both the small journal and 1500cc
Spitfires.  Thanks.  Basil


From pvucinic at netspace.net.au  Sat Jan 19 03:28:49 2008
From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:28:49 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>

Dear Listers,

 

I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little softer
/ with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get enough heat
into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too aggressive
on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street use
would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and slotted
rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I just
need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.  

 

Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake booster,
STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
Lining Material are you using on the Shoes? 

 

Any input will be gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

Kind Regards

Peter Vucinic

TR-4

_____________________________________________

Fot mailing list

Fot at autox.team.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 08:00:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <98e93157ba13340fc2dd75ea8e144eef@wi.rr.com>

Peter,

You can make the back brakes work harder for you by changing the rear 
wheel cylinders to a larger bore. Use the Morgan cylinders which you 
can get through British Parts Northwest http://www.bpnorthwest.com/ . I 
believe that they list these as a performance upgrade for TR4's and 
TR6's. I have Ted Schumaker line my rear shoes with kevlar material 
which works well. This setup makes you more aware of the rear brakes 
working for you as the tail of the car will dance a bit under heavy 
braking.

Allen

On Jan 19, 2008, at 4:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little 
> softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get 
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too 
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street 
> use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and 
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I 
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake 
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 09:24:30 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:24:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <92E20A28-BFF3-4716-B5B6-286358AD4A26@earthlink.net>

Another option that sounds more pricey is to call "Carbotech."  They  
can reccommend a material and reline your pads / shoes.  Thing is,  
you have to turn the drums / discs to get the old material off and  
then bed the brakes.  Shoes / Pads ran me $280  They have many  
available friction materials available.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/index.html



~Steve


On Jan 19, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a  
> little softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get  
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too  
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for  
> street use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and  
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I  
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining  
> material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake  
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand /  
> Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 18:27:46 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
Message-ID: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>

Hi gang, here are a couple of questions that are pretty basic but  
very important.  also, its hard to find the answers in the books.
here goes...

Question 1: crank end float.  Is this measurement to be taken on both  
sides of the center main cap?
Should I push the crank all the way one direction and then measure  
the gap, then do the other side?  or..  should I position the crank  
in the middle and see that the gap is equal on both sides?


Question 2:  Should I torque the main cap bolts to the recommended  
90lbs?  or do you guys go a little higher for racing?


Thanks!

~Steve


From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:17:07 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:17:07 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
In-Reply-To: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>

I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
a decent one will be worth it.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:27:03 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Server notes
Message-ID: <4792B177.4050004@bradakis.com>

Gee, meant to add this to the message I just sent regarding
crank end float.  My servers are under attack from bad guys
again, perhaps the same group from Brazil that got me a few
years ago.  I'm hoping there will be no interruptions of the
various Team.Net services, but if things go away for a few
hours while I shuffle stuff around, update or whatever
don't worry too much.  I'll have it all fixed by Feb. 23rd,
the night of  the Beach Party!  More on that later.

Why is it that the bad guys seem to have more time to
propagate their mischief than the good guys have time
to control it?  Sometimes I do wonder why I keep
doing this, sigh.

Anyway, just a heads up.

mjb.


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 21:07:52 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:07:52 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
Message-ID: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>

So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
and recycled the catalog.
 
Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
and they have no more.
Let me know if you are my new hero! 
Thanks
Alison


From ejmajor250 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 20 04:46:56 2008
From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:46:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
References: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 20 12:31:40 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:31:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
	<4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c85b9b$18c1c630$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, a couple things:
I have a bunch of machinist items, including dial indicators, that I can
part with if any of you guys need anything.
Also, even as we speak (sorry Johnny) there is a TR6 Repair and Operation
Manual on e-bay. I have a a copy myself and it's very good. There's a good
section on how to check and adjust crankshaft end-float. It can be checked
in the car, but only be adjusted with the pan off.
Ted Schumacher gave me some pointers about end-float adjustment that were
very helpful. It's quite an important spec. Thanks, Ted.
I think Kaz may have covered the subject in his books, also.
Take care and stay warm.
Bill Tobin TR6  Erie, PA  (Darned cold here!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?


> I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
> putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
> a decent one will be worth it.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 20 12:41:11 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pikes Peak Hill Climb
Message-ID: <20080120.124111.2948.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Are there any of you out there with interest in being part of the second
oldest motor sports event in America?

Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has arranged with the Pikes Peak
International Hill Climb, to include a "Vintage" group of up to forty
(40) cars. They are looking for A/P, B/P, C/P, A/S, B/S, C/S, entries,
primarily. They are wanting cars that can do the 12.42 mile, 156 corners,
climbing about 4,708 feet in less than 15 minutes (schedule, you know). 

For complete event info, see http://www.ppihc.com/ , The RMVR contact is
: Tony Martins cycleworksusa at msn.com . There is also some information
developing at www.rmvr.com .
Make your own history!
Bill


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 15:57:11 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:57:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>
Message-ID: <000001c85bb7$cb095b70$6401a8c0@blake1>

I want to say a red or rust color but pretty sure it was a Christmas
catalog.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Major [mailto:ejmajor250 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:47 AM
To: Greg & Alison Blake; 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] The Roadster Factory

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs
like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age
11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was
cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster
Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sun Jan 20 16:20:13 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mike Munson
Message-ID: <6E3E3782.1B724B7B.00159EE9@cs.com>

Mike....we are near Bowling Green...Hampton Inn Franklin.

319.464.4711

Could you give me a call?

Thanks, Joe A
5:30 Sunday


From igofaster at charter.net  Sun Jan 20 16:30:30 2008
From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>

Rimmer Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?
Also, with solid engine mounts on the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount. Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a solid tranny mount?

Bobby Whitehead
#54GT6+ CVAR


From budscars at msn.com  Sun Jan 20 17:00:52 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (budscars at msn.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:00:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
Message-ID: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
ONE
Thanks
Racer Bud
Spitfire #21   sonoma, ca.> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800> From:
igofaster at charter.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> CC: fot-request at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.> > Rimmer
Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock
mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the
tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock
that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?> Also, with solid engine mounts on
the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount.
Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a
solid tranny mount?> > Bobby Whitehead> #54GT6+ CVAR>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Sun Jan 20 17:15:59 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:15:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
Message-ID: <d66.219cd97b.34c53e3f@aol.com>

Keep something soft mounted for stress relief.  If you have solid  engine 
mounts then the trans mount should have some flex.
 
What do you hope to accomplish with the frame mounted shocks?  Bigger  tires 
in the tiny wheelwells?  Can't see any other advantage.  The GT6  is already 
crippled with very little rear suspension travel.  The shorty  shocks will make 
it worse.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 22:21:36 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:21:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>

What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
details before I paint.
 
Thanks,
 
Greg


From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 21 11:03:19 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:03:19 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <BAY123-W1846DD92507DF48D7BBE8ABA3D0@phx.gbl>

Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?

Thanks,
Marty Sukey
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 21 14:05:00 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:05:00 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
In-Reply-To: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
References: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <7B35629B-8013-4E58-B5B5-95A1143461C8@earthlink.net>

I'm running 15" Panasport rims.

Tires:  Yokohama Advan  A048R 205 60 HR 15  medium compound

There's a spacer on the front hubs, not sure of it's thickness.  No  
mods to the fenders at all.  My car is very low and there are slight  
signs of rubber possibly making contact with the fender lip.

~Steve


On Jan 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Greg & Alison Blake wrote:

> What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you  
> rolling
> the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
> details before I paint.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 14:24:15 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:24:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] for sale
Message-ID: <681389.29309.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Spitfire #4 White is for sale.
  a pic of it is on the fot site... spitfires...  far right, 4th row down.
  Legal in MC as vintage or F Prod. 
  No engine (useable that is)
  Tranny seemed a bit loose, having trouble getting 3rd gear when parked.
  Roll bar and side bars meet MC regs.  Main hoop is short for current SCCA and would have to be raised.
  Fiberglass bonnet, came from england and was supposedly hand built for the spits but never shipped to the US.
  Steel bonnet goes with the car also.
  Custom header and stainless exhaust goes with car.
  Several spares.
   
  I would prefer to sell the open trailer(currently burried in a wisconsin snowbank) and tow vehicle (ford f350 sb351 & 5 speed stick) along with the race car.
    I will try to get more specifics and pics together over the next week or two.  I will eventually list it on craigs list, but would prefer to have someone who cares about it get the car.  Its a fun little car, and deserves a bit of TLC and an owner who will race it as it should be raced.
    Hopefully someone from the list will be interested and give her a good home.
    Anyone who is interested feel free to call or drop by.  Best times are mornings from around 9:30 AM to 2:00 PM (central time) Tue thru Fri... pretty much anytime weekends untill around 2 or so monday afternoon.  (I work 3rd shift & usually try to sleep late afternoon & evening).
  920-733-5013
   


Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 14:29:38 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:29:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <1427349.3747921200950978690.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net>

Marty;
       Here is one that I have used.   http://www.5speeds.com/rpm.htm

Dean Tetterton




>Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
>allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
>allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
>use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?
>
>Thanks,
>Marty Sukey
>_________________________________________________________________


From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 17:25:34 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:25:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] 4 White  4 sale  forgot to add...
Message-ID: <259707.53228.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

forgot to add ... price is open, negotiable, and reasonable.

Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 17:28:03 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:28:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <23309691.4335981200961683947.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net>

>What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
>the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
>details before I paint.
> 
>Thanks,
> 
>Greg


I use the 6X15 Panasports with the regular TR6 offset. The tires are 5.50 X 15 Vintage TD or the 205 Speedsters. No clearence problems. They are close to the rear spring on the inside but no sign of rubbing.

Dean T.
58 TR3A


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 18:12:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:12:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 18:20:43 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:20:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <338995.70502.qm@web81714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes - Will was camped right across from me at MOTRA - good guy.  I'll second.
   
  Dennis DeLap

Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:
  FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tr6nut at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 18:26:49 2008
From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47954659.7020004@verizon.net>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
> in Milwaukee. ...I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
>   
I'll second the nomination.

Hugh Barber
Stafford, VA
'73 TR6


From emanteno at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 19:38:19 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:38:19 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <012220080238.4034.4795571B000B37E700000FC22207024553970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> 

> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
> involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second? 
Second. I have been email "chatting" with Will for a couple of years. I'm looking forward to actually meeting him.
Irv


From budscars at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 09:10:35 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:10:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] kastner a 10 a cam
Message-ID: <004401c856c7$fff55d10$0302a8c0@Bud>

does someone have the lobe measurements of kastner  A10A cam for spitfire?  I
have one listed on Ebay.  please contact tej at cableracer.com
my new email address is going through the fot approval process
Thanks
Racer Bud


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 12:36:13 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:36:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FE0B499A-22FA-4B8D-A552-6E1D780FB9E6@bnj.com>

I'm sure we'd want something much stouter. I've never done one of  
these, though I planned to back when it was a single event. Somehow it  
never happened. But I've heard all about it. You want iron around you,  
not brit tin. And you need a motor that doesn't mind abuse. An old  
buick regal with some mexican tires sounds right.

I don't know how anyone could buy a Z28 in any state for $500. It must  
be extraordinary.

On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:27 AM, <koblinger at verizon.net> <koblinger at verizon.net 
 > wrote:

> I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this  
> extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount.
>
> Cheers,
> Kurt O. (running for cover)
>
>
>> From: GRMTim at aol.com
>> Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>> To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
>
>> We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have  
>> entered one
>> of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>>
>> Here's the official release.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots  
>> Motorsports is
>> now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest  
>> endurance-race
>> series.
>>
>> LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>> endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on  
>> creativity,
>> appeal, and
>> implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid  
>> is made
>> up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do  
>> their best
>> to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long  
>> endurance race,
>> a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>> pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>>
>> The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>> metastized into a national series with thousands of participants  
>> and more
>> coverage
>> than most professional racing groups-has been called the most  
>> entertaining,
>> least
>> expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a  
>> natural fit
>> with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten  
>> focus on fun
>> and
>> affordable competition.
>>
>> "LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first- 
>> timers to
>> seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in  
>> his best
>> PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>> budget-conscious
>> prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course  
>> nobody talks
>> like this in real life."
>>
>> After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From  
>> searching for
>> raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the  
>> hours leading
>> up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for  
>> speed,
>> shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>>
>> As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons  
>> events with
>> celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island  
>> Concours
>> founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced  
>> automotive
>> professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>> testament
>> to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement  
>> as I am."
>>
>> With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap  
>> penalties,
>> and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the  
>> best yet.
>> Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has  
>> sold out
>> and
>> new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more  
>> applicants
>> than
>> available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an  
>> enthusiastic base of
>> returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY  
>> racers. By
>> teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours  
>> of LeMons
>> plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>> For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:16:35 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:16:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>

Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
> light
> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
> and
> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>
> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety
> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>
> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
> phase
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
> Allen
>
> Jody & Allen Washatko
> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
> USA
>
> tel. (262) 375-6888
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:26:19 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:26:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
	<421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <4DD08C99-884C-41B4-9CEF-72443CE44A54@bnj.com>

oops, too many email accounts
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:
>
>> FoT,
>>
>> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
>> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
>> light
>> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
>> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
>> and
>> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>>
>> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and  
>> safety
>> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>>
>> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
>> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
>> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
>> phase
>> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>>
>> Allen
>>
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
>
>
>

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 10:20:03 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:20:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Mon Jan 21 21:09:18 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pacific Life commercial
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV7AA09781CCDD6C5F58B56B73E0@phx.gbl>

Hey Bill, was that you on your long board riding a wave in that "Boomer" ad?
<grin>

Kev Lynch


From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 21:09:36 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:09:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] High End Triumph Site
Message-ID: <369162.22872.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim

----- Original Message
----
From: "Guyots3 at wmconnect.com" <Guyots3 at wmconnect.com>
To:
fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 6:05:29 PM
Subject: Re:
[Fot] High End Triumph Site

In a message dated 11/26/2007 8:46:55 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007
15:21:14 -0500
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fot]
High End Triumph Site
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc:
igofaster at charter.net
>
> I have heard enough about this Chris Cancelli of PRI
to recognize that he is
> a scam artist of the worst kind, and a liar.

There
are many people on different Triumph newsgroups in the USA & the UK
that have
been ripped off by him.

It is very simple, SEND NO MONEY, not now, not ever.
Looking out for my friends on the FoT.

Happy Holidays

Lion




  </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


      Make the switch to the
world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
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From walt at hot-tr6.com  Mon Jan 21 21:11:31 2008
From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Help
In-Reply-To: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080122041200.B17AE1878E6@autox.team.net>

Here is the information I have on PRI but I have not tried to contact them
for a few months. I am about to order a couple of more cams/lifters if they
are wtill in business.

Performance Research Industries
1313 Duke St Suite. A
Sutherlin, Or. 97479
Ph 1 541-459-5442
 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cun
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Help

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have been
emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit hard
to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone has
any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 21 21:21:18 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:21:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] List stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
	<BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47956F3E.4090808@bradakis.com>

> CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
> ONE
>   
To unsubscribe your old address and subscribe your new one, you unsubscribe
your old address and subscribe your new one.  The mailman links included in
each message can be helpful.


mjb.


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 21 21:49:02 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Neat link for figuring engine stats
Message-ID: <959468.99293.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Since this summer I've been in the process of working on my now 17 y.o. son's first car, a '72 Datsun 240Z. First thing we did was pull the stock motor and tranny and installed a fuel injected '77 280Z motor and 5 speed. After that was running great we turbocharged it with a turbo from a Cummins Turbo Diesel. Not really the best choice but I picked that turbo because they can be had cheaply. After I got all my plumbing issues squared away I can dial in 12 lbs of boost and this things a rocket. I will admit that when this kicks in at 4000 rpm this old man gets scared. He is now building up the original motor into a normally aspirated 240Z stroker (240 with a 280 crank and flat-top pistons). In his wandering through the net he stumbled upon the link below for figuring engine stats. It is geared for the Z cars...all the pre-loaded info is Z related, but, you can say "other" and put your own stats in and figure out your own needs. Give it a try. I plugged in some TR
 info from some motors I'm currently building and the numbers are interesting. 
  Just thought I'd share this with you all. - Ed
  http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/


From m-syork at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 22:56:23 2008
From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:56:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Triumph scores at SOVREN banquet
Message-ID: <000101c85cbb$85597010$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim>

Several FOT members "brought home the brass" at the year end SOVREN awards
banquet.

Bill Hart in his '57 Devin Triumph was third place in Group 1 (Vintage small
bore pre-1962)

Charly Mitchel in his '69 Triumph TR6 was second in group Small Bore
Historics

Steve Hare was named "Rookie of the Year" piloting his "63 Spitfire.

Good job mates!

Mark


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 08:24:27 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:24:27 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>

FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 08:36:02 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
References: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>

There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of  
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing  
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east  
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's  
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better  
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:54:22 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:54:22 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <OF092E8254.CAA935E4-ON852573D8.005700CB-852573D8.00577292@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.
If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel

go to  WWW.VARAC.CA  /Festival/Accommodations  and there you find a list 
of B+B and Hotels.
i normally camp over the Weekend.

Peter

Peter Bulkowski





Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com>
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:36 AM
 
        To:     N197TR4 at cs.com
        cc:     Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
        Subject:        Re: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in 
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of 
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing 
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east 
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's 
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better 
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:58:31 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:58:31 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Hotels
Message-ID: <035901c85d0f$a35b9580$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Bowmanville is the nearest town that has a few of the typical hotels, Oshawa
is a little further west and would have a full range of choices.
Nothing right at the track, guess Don Panoz didn't get around to it.
Simon.


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 09:02:23 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:02:23 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>

Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and at the 
track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.

But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time and 
looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but there may be 
better.

Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/ 

The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are large 
enough...not that I have seen them.

Thanks!

VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/ 

Joe



    



> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in Nero. 
> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord of the 
> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it. There's a 
> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I don't 
> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good restaurants there. Are 
> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go. 
> 

   </HTML>


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 09:33:58 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:33:58 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
References: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
Message-ID: <29E064FA-7FED-495D-AB4F-84A854CC47C2@gmail.com>

Diane and I did stay at a very pretty B&B on a nearby lake--big  
victorian place. but it was a ways from the track.

On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:02 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote:

> Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and  
> at the
> track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.
>
> But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time  
> and
> looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but  
> there may be
> better.
>
> Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/
>
> The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are  
> large
> enough...not that I have seen them.
>
> Thanks!
>
> VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
>> Nero.
>> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord  
>> of the
>> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it.  
>> There's a
>> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I  
>> don't
>> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good  
>> restaurants there. Are
>> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go.
>>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Billbab at gmail.com
www.kenalu.com
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog


From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 10:01:38 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <OFCA23ED8B.26152D03-ON852573D8.005D571E-852573D8.005D9B00@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.

If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel.

Go to  WWW.VARAC.CA / Festival/ Accommodation  there you will find Hotels 
and B+B listed

Regards.

Peter Bulkowski
Technical Manager,Special Projects
Cell 416-520-6108
Offi. 416-847-7514
98 Vanderhoof Ave.
Toronto,Ont.  M4G 4C9




N197TR4 at cs.com
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:24 AM
 
        To:     fot at autox.team.net
        cc: 
        Subject:        [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 22 10:03:39 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:03:39 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <BLU127-W15071B7B402F4B6136B3858C3E0@phx.gbl>

Jim Cun wrote:

> I am owed a few items from PRI and have
> been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a
bit
> hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if
anyone
> has any information please email me.

Good luck Jim.  This scab has owed me parts and money for 5 years.
He was run out of San Diego 10 years ago, and I hear that the Alfa
community might send a posse with a rope.

Again, good luck, and I mean that sincerely.

Shane Ingate in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx


From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan 23 22:34:32 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <20080124053947.ORYI20092.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The current issue of F1 Mag has a very interesting article on the 
combination of gases the Teams have been experimenting with regards 
to filling their tires.

This was one of the issues in the "Stepney-gate" affair and was in 
the emails between Alonso and de La Rosa.  Ferrari was experimenting 
with using hydoflurocarbons (similar to that found in your A/C and 
refrigerator) to keep the tires cooler so they would not grain and blister.

The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it 
gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Pat Symonds of Renault said "...it has a tiny effect that's difficult 
to measure on track.  But because F1 is so restrictive it's all about 
adding up the tiny effects to get a  larger one."


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 00:03:03 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:03:03 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <000001c85e57$29ec8030$6401a8c0@blake1>

What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?
 
Thanks,
 
Greg


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Thu Jan 24 06:19:33 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:19:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>

Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse  them.  
Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most likely you can 
lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From billbab at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 08:35:39 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:35:39 -0800
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
In-Reply-To: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
References: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>

I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it  
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill  
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300  
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of  
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse   
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most  
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 24 08:42:23 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block?  I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com> wrote:  I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Thu Jan 24 09:33:08 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:33:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Header trades.. bits needed & for sale
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV55159DD567E4E83525976B7380@phx.gbl>

Amici, I've a friend who has a 1296 chrome header that he needs to sell or
trade for a 1147 header . He also has a Mk4 alternator for sale or trade. He
also is needing an "early" hard top.

Thank you from the sunny High Plains.

Kevin


 I have and also  I need an early hard top if someone wants to trade!!


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 24 13:21:02 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>

> The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Do you mean nitrogen?

Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html

Shane Ingate, air is air when sucking hard at 7500', in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan


From slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net  Thu Jan 24 17:38:06 2008
From: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net (John McCue)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:38:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
Message-ID: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>

I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the seller
says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the differences
between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this conversion
I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with a
Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into play.
Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Thu Jan 24 18:26:05 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:26:05 GMT
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <20080124.202605.25373.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

I have replaced guides in 4 or 5 heads and have just pressed them out.  I used
bronze guides for the new ones and have had no problem with the new ones being
loose in the head.  They have all needed to be reemed after being pressed into
the head to fit the valve.

The old guides are just the right size to use in my abrasive blast cabinet, so
they get put to good used.  Joe(B)

-- "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> wrote:
What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?

Thanks,

Greg
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find a school near you that offers project management
certification courses.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijncIOt087sG1bKDZWMzVwXdo
HWhgtgaOTgDKd0BXXiOlS42W/


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Thu Jan 24 19:14:35 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:14:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <00ba01c85ef8$08430750$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

john, the TR250 and the 69 TR6 had flywheels with a longer end on the
crankshaft.  70 and later TR6 went to a shorter crankshaft and made the
flywheel longer and heavier.  I'm not sure what the GT6 or 2000 or 2500
saloons used.  I don't know if the TR6 flywheel will work on a GT6 motor,
but it should work on the saloons.
You can not mix the 2 different parts.  The transmissions, clutches and
everything else are the same and they can be interchanged.
You can buy the lightweight steel flywheel for the long or short snouted
crankshaft for about the same price as an aluminum one.  BPnorthwest.com has
them or I can get you one.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John McCue" <slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts


> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the
seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the
differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this
conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with
a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into
play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 20:06:13 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:06:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <59c709be3ebe628f8dbb40e269f12d0a@wi.rr.com>

John,

I believe the terms are actually "long" or "short" tail cranks. The 
long tail cranks were used in the early engines (up to CC50000) and the 
short tail cranks were used in later models. The difference is in the 
pilot bush length which fits into the flywheel. The long is 1" and the 
short is 1/2" in length.

If you are racing the car, I would highly recommend buying the 9.5 lb. 
alloy flywheel that British Parts Northwest sells. It will better 
withstand the destructive harmonics created by the TR6 crank. Be sure 
to add 4 additional bolts at the crank and use ARP flywheel bolts.

Allen

On Jan 24, 2008, at 6:38 PM, John McCue wrote:

> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the 
> seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the 
> differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this 
> conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor 
> with a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into 
> play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 24 21:07:06 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <440892.48234.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dale: The groove should be .030" deep and 3.5" in diameter if you want to use a stock headgasket. Thanks - Ed

dale oesterle <dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net> wrote:  Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block? I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock wrote: I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan 25 13:00:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:00:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] John Sprinzel
Message-ID: <c36.211ba39b.34cb99e1@aol.com>

Amici...

Bill Thompson, the Flounder at TEAM THICKO, asked me to pass this info along 
to all in the TRIUMPH community.  It concerns John Sprinzel (Speedwell 
Sprites, etc.,) and a rare book long out of print.  I've met Mr. Sprinzel several 
times.  He's a really neat guy, full of great stories.  If interested, here's the 
info:

Here's your chance to get a copy of a book long out of print. Original
copies have gone for hundreds of dollars on Ebay.  John Sprinzel has 
reprinted "Spritely Years" after buying the rights and the acetates back from Haynes. 

This is a "must have" for anyone interested in Sprites, Healeys, Triumph,
Ford, rallying, and a host of other cars John drove during his career. It's
an honest, informative, funny look at John's life as a driver, tuner,
manufacturer, etc.

Only 500 copies were produced for the 50th Sprite year anniversary, so that
they will still be fairly rare.  He is selling them autographed at $65 
including postage in the US ($71.00 overseas) .
 
His address is P.O. Box 97 Kaunakakai HI 96748

John's e-mail  address for this is johnsebring65 at gmail.com .

He does have Paypal, (though he says, "I am not yet too sure how it all
works"), otherwise US check or money order will do the trick. 

He'll have a few copies at the Sprite deal  in May, and Tom Coulthard
(co-author) might be there to sign them as well.




**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Fri Jan 25 15:41:21 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:41:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Weird Vehicle
Message-ID: <004501c85fa3$694b9c50$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

My apologies for "bombing" the list . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-Fletcher-Aviator-Bonneville-Cruiser_W0QQi
temZ140200642196QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140200642196


From dave at microworks.net  Fri Jan 25 16:43:25 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080125235656.VGNK18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

Nope.  He meant the same good ole that you breath air

"...During the fitting process Bridgestone inflate their Potenza 
rubber to 50psi to seat it on the wheel rim; they then supply the 
tyres to the teams at 20psi, along with an inflation range that teams 
must adhere to in the interests of safety.
Bridgestone inflate their tyres with normal - but dried - atmospheric 
air because its rate of expansion inside a tyre is predictable as the 
tyre heats up during racing conditions...
"We remove the moisture from the air to get a more consistent 
response to changes in temperature" says Bridgestone's technical 
manager, Tetsuro Kobayashi.  "Air normally consists of about 78 
percent nitrogen, and the moisture content is a variable of around 
one per cent..."

The article goes on to say that the teams have been experimenting 
with both nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

The wheel rims have two valves so that the teams can purge the wheel 
to add whatever gas they want.

At 01:21 PM 1/24/2008, Shane Ingate wrote:

> > The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> > gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.
>
>Do you mean nitrogen?
>
>Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Fri Jan 25 19:30:00 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:30:00 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>

Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
#VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
#VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box. Darn
thing is I can't recall what it was.

I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When time
allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an old
catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.

Kevin Colo.
GT6


From REK46 at aol.com  Sat Jan 26 06:17:13 2008
From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:17:13 EST
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>

The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat 
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and 
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The outers are 
same OD/ID size.


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL 
Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sat Jan 26 07:07:05 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
References: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV4B5A9A1CAE9123AF4163BB73A0@phx.gbl>

Ah, OK, that sounds like what happened. It was back in 1998.  Thanks for the
info/help! Have a great Daytona.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: REK46 at aol.com<mailto:REK46 at aol.com>
  To: klynch_6 at msn.com<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ;
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] C.R.S. !!


  The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The
outers are same OD/ID size.


  **************
  Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
  (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
00002548<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp
00300000002548>)


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 26 09:54:38 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:54:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E610B361-C4CE-46C4-BA1B-65AB059A2D3C@earthlink.net>

I too had a question about an old box of Isky springs and retainers I  
inherited.
I gave them a call and talked to Ron Iskenderian.  He's very cool,  
helpful, and remembers all the product numbers!

~Steve


On Jan 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote:

> Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
> #VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
> #VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box.  
> Darn
> thing is I can't recall what it was.
>
> I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When  
> time
> allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an  
> old
> catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.
>
> Kevin Colo.
> GT6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 26 12:11:19 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] weber
Message-ID: <802417.39616.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can anyone tell me what choke, fuel and air jets, idle and emulsion tube go with a single 45 DCOE weber and a 1296 (Mark III spitfire) with 12 to 1 compression? Dale Oesterle


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sat Jan 26 21:17:59 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:17:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
Message-ID: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>

I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my TR6.
When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only for
racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
anyone know if this is correct?

Thanks, Jim
Two 1974 TR6s

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]


From jmwagner at greenheart.com  Sun Jan 27 19:49:53 2008
From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:49:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPH TR4 TR4A FIBERGLASS Bonnet/Hood on EBAY
Message-ID: <479D42D1.1020405@greenheart.com>

FYI....  --Justin

Item number: 250103330582
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRIUMPH-TR4-TR4A-FIBERGLASS-Bonnet-Hood_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ015QQitemZ250103330582QQtcZphoto 


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Sun Jan 27 19:56:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:56:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/


From triosan at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 20:20:13 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
In-Reply-To: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801271920o41f3375cmca326349d17715bf@mail.gmail.com>

I have attached a picture for Jim Hearn who asked the question.  It shows my
engine from the side with the plumbing installed.  From it I can tell the
"out" is at the bottom and the in at the top of the adapter.  Does not show
the thermostat.  Does show a "T" I installed at the in  port. From the top
of the T one side goes to a feed to the number one cylinder oil galley.  The
other side goes to the accusump.



On Jan 26, 2008 8:17 PM, jim hearn <jimhearn1 at comcast.net> wrote:

> I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my
> TR6.
> When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
> which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only
> for
> racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
> anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
> oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
> bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
> anyone know if this is correct?
>
> Thanks, Jim
> Two 1974 TR6s
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had
> a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of engine side viewer no meter unit1.JPG]


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 12:18:57 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/


From malaboge at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 18:52:26 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
In-Reply-To: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <8CA3030BB6E52BF-904-3700@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com>

Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with?87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers



Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


________________________________________________________________________
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From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 20:51:30 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:51:30 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080128.225130.16373.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com>

Sorry, but I never had an 87mm engine on a dyno with the webers on it.
Joe(B)

-- malaboge at aol.com wrote:
Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with 87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
                  Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since
Ihave been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM
manifoldfrom Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would
offer themto the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted
for 87mmpistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with
differentjetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm
pistons on thedyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.
Joe(B)_____________________________________________________________Trick out
your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click
now!http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH
7GqcrgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/_______________________________________________h
ttp://www.team.net/donate.htmlFot mailing
listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fotMore new
features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on how to become certified as a project
management professional.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijncIOsbtyNwU3mPYHRfvFYKM
uWf8Pw1YcyuWwFU0Gyf6Uit0/


From quicktr4 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 23:40:15 2008
From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:40:15 -0800
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
References: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <001c01c86241$cfd61810$c6fee747@quickfure2vk6w>

in the mid 60's My Dad ran with the  cal auto team on the west coast. they 
stoped by chevron on the way to the track and filled up with white pump 100 
or 101 octane if I remember.there oil of choise was castrol bean oil I realy 
miss the smell of that stuf at the track.  Jeff
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings


>I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were 
>used
> in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s 
> up
> through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From mediehljr at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 29 04:49:08 2008
From: mediehljr at yahoo.com (Ed Diehl)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:49:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <325574.86106.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all, micrometers are very accurate, plastigauge is not!  Cheers, Ed.
Ed Diehl

Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net> wrote:  The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge. So
far I have not found any discrepancies. Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
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Fot mailing list
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Ed Diehl
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan 29 05:38:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:38:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>

I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can 
buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is 
there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive 
applications?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From henry at henryfrye.com  Tue Jan 29 05:42:55 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:42:55 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>

My machine shop uses the mic method only.

I assemble all my own motors, and once asked if I should check with
plasticgauge. His answer was a resounding NO.

I have had these guys call me to tell me the bearings I supplied were no
good, too much clearance. They were new old stock Vandervells. I had to
either find new bearings or pay to have all big ends resized, line bore
the block, etc. We were talking about less than 1/2 a thou!

Nine years of racing, more motor rebuilds than I care to think about,
never a bottom end/oil related issue. Every main bearing looked like it
could be reused, some rod bearings have shown signs of wear, but never
even close to failure. You should get the bearings back marked where
they get reinstalled, and you will see little superficial scratches
where the inside mic was used. I always smile when I see those scratches
on teardown!

Yes, I am knocking on wood...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Janzen
> Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
>
> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or
> mains, torques the caps and uses an inside micrometer to
> check bearing clearances before installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have
> to use plastigauge.
> What says the group?


From spreiss at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 21:54:42 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:54:42 +1100
Subject: [Fot] great photos
Message-ID: <003801c86233$10b969e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Want to see some great photographs of vintage race cars of all stripes? Go to
www.brmmbrmm.com/CastrolR.
Steve P.


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 16:07:44 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for Mike Cook
Message-ID: <005801c862cb$c23f4a70$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

Mike, Ted Schumacher suggested I contact you.  Please drop me an e-mail.
Thanks!


From budscars at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 19:51:37 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:51:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] racing friends
Message-ID: <000f01c862eb$08852800$0302a8c0@Bud>

'Side By Side...as We Slide...Trusting Friends...What a Ride'
Hi Gang
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 29 21:18:45 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <BLU127-W42E6361BE9BB5F56CB1BEA8C360@phx.gbl>

Allan Washatko wrote:

> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?

I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
stuff too.

Shane Ingate in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 07:31:46 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:31:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - "The Legends Speak" - September 2008 Friday
 Afternoon
Message-ID: <bc0.25f100d1.34d1e452@cs.com>

FoT,

The Village of Watkins Glen has a forum at 3:00PM in Lafayette Park on Friday 
afternoon.  This year The LEGENDS SPEAK panel will be made up of current and 
former Friends of Triumph.    (TBA)

If your schedule allows, this will be the place to be....wearing your new FOT 
Shirts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------

<A HREF="http://websearch.cs.com/cs/boomframe.jsp?query=grand+Prix+Festival&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D53175234cfb894c5%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dgrand%2BPrix%2BFestival%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DCSroll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%2F">Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen</A>
 
The Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen presented by Chemung Canal Trust 
Company . A celebration of our heritage of road racing, come share our memories!

http://www.grandprixfestival.com/ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

This weekend is far more than a vintage race weekend. It is a celebration of 
our Triumphs made possible by The Village of Watkins Glen and the SVRA.

Special Thanks to Classic Motorsports magazine.....

Joe Alexander

    
   </HTML>


From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 08:51:06 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:51:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
References: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <001801c86357$ed623500$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Try:

Coil Spring Specialties
632 Bertrand
ST. Mary's, KS 66536
Phone 785-437-2025

You will need to give them a complete specification on what you want (coil
diameter, height, spring rate, etc) but they are extremely reasonable.

I had a pair of coils made for my Spit and my total cost with shipping was
$142.47  back in 2002.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:38 AM
Subject: [Fot] Springs


> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6


From RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu  Wed Jan 30 08:54:34 2008
From: RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu (Richard Junkermeier)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:54:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] (no subject)
Message-ID: <A69D98229727EF49861D0B7C17BF28AB095FA069@LARNPMAIL01.admin.wyotech.net>

Hi  I talked to BJ dragger at Draco springs in Houston texas at last years
PRI show they do a lot of the springs for Nascar teams. He said the would do
any size and length and rate springs we wanted I have tried Eibach and
several others and they only would do common sizes they stocked Draco seemed
very helpful www.dracospring.com

 

Richard Junkermeier

Chassis Fabrication & High Performance Engines Instructor

WyoTech

(307) 755-2443

rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu <mailto:rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu> 

www.wyotech.com <http://www.wyotech.com> 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:10:39 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:10:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] New Planned Registration for Watkins Glen-September - Spitfire
Message-ID: <d47.1eeb0e78.34d1fb7f@cs.com>

Tom Strange,

Please add Al Lessard of Quebec to the list of intended entries. His 
information is below.

Thanks! 

Joe Alexander


> TKS Joe. 
>  
> Just received my new engine one wk ago.
> I will be in Mosport.......... at the Festival in June and my most important 
> event will be Watkins Glen Sept 3-7-08, a first visit.
> Please keep me posted.
>  
> AL.
>  Alcide Lessard, Varac # 04 
> 576, Terrasse Cyr. 
> Laval,   QC. H7X 2H8 
> SPITFIRE
> photoboat at videotron.ca
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:24:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <cbe.1fd88c64.34d1fec2@cs.com>

Thanks!

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................


From Billb at bnj.com  Wed Jan 30 12:54:16 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>

If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the  
balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to  
smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)  
flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with  
CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing  
else, it doesn't hurt.
Bill

On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual  
> SU
> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My  
> fabricator
> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every  
> car with
> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him  
> to build
> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault  
> powered
> Bunce Buck.........................
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com


From kaskas at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 13:58:23 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:58:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
	<0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c86382$da5a2be0$d214c548@RW>

With S.U. carbs, yes, with the Webers no need for in effect you have a 
separate carburetor for each port..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: <dos_gusanos at msn.comdos_gusanos@msn.com>
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Manifold Question


> If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the
> balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to
> smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)
> flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with
> CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing
> else, it doesn't hurt.
> Bill
>
> On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
> <dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual
>> SU
>> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My
>> fabricator
>> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every
>> car with
>> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him
>> to build
>> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
>> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault
>> powered
>> Bunce Buck.........................
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Wed Jan 30 18:29:20 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:29:20 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131012920.LJWD2859.invictus@[209.143.0.76]>

One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have 1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair runs around $300 or higher.  Ted
> 
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue Jan 29, 11:18 PM
> To: <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> Allan Washatko wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> > buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> > there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> > applications?
> 
> I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
> you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
> stuff too.
> 
> Shane Ingate in NM
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
> http://biggestloser.msn.com/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Catpusher at aol.com  Wed Jan 30 19:24:39 2008
From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:24:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] TR2-4A valve guide R&R
Message-ID: <c3a.2ac7a770.34d28b67@aol.com>

I always carried drifts that fit in and on the guides, and used the copper 
knockoff hammer to carefully drift the guides out and in (you can deform them).  
The shock helps.
I highly recommend honing the guides after they are installed; I had too many 
failures with lesser
methods, and this recommendation is even stronger for non-cast-iron guides 
and race cams.
 
Hardy



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 09:43:48 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:43:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>

I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 10:35:27 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] What fun
Message-ID: <47A206DF.8020403@bradakis.com>

Looks like some odd server troubles cropped up last night,
I'm looking into it.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 13:33:05 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:33:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Further fun
Message-ID: <47A23081.8020206@bradakis.com>

I think I have the Team.Net mail lists working again.

mjb.


From gaf3 at charter.net  Thu Jan 31 15:28:46 2008
From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Mark
Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at 
harbor freight.
They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an 
outside micrometer to take your measurement.
They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things 
like valve guide dimensions (id).
I have been using them for years.
But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
Glenn Franco
72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:33:34 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:33:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311730280.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.

I absolutely agree. I just got a set of these recently because my 
machinist retired. He used to measure my stuff for free ('cause he knew 
I'd have him machine the stuff). But the telscope gauges are 
awesome. For $60, you're in fat city. I got a set from MSC.

I haven't used plastigauge for years, though. Maybe I'm just lazy. But I 
do measure things. And re-measure.

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Thu Jan 31 15:36:08 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:36:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill


From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 15:43:08 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8645a$a6ed4160$0202a8c0@newcomputer>

As will Coil Spring Specialties that I referred to in an earlier reply.  In
fact I believe that all they do is custom springs to order.

Joe C. 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G
Rosenbach
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:36 PM
To: tedtsimx at bright.net
Cc: hottr6 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net; awashatko at wi.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:44:36 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:44:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311740260.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:

> It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> comprehensive line in stock.
> A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> multi-diameter winding?

I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.

If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
changes what options you have for spring rates.

regards,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Billb at bnj.com  Thu Jan 31 16:21:52 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>

I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!

I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.

On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>
>> mjb.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>
>>
>>
> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.
> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
> like valve guide dimensions (id).
> I have been using them for years.
> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
> Glenn Franco
> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From kaskas at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 16:27:27 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:27:27 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local><47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
	<47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
	<56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c86460$d75ca470$d214c548@RW>

Hear this , now hear this. Yes, Bill.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: "Glenn Franco" <gaf3 at charter.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
> gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
> you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
> spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
> perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
> approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
> consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
> quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!
> 
> I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
> than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
> accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
> check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.
> 
> On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:
> 
>> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>>
>>> mjb.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Mark
>> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
>> harbor freight.
>> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
>> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
>> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
>> like valve guide dimensions (id).
>> I have been using them for years.
>> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
>> Glenn Franco
>> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> 
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Thu Jan 31 13:18:56 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:18:56 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <25398DA5A1914CE890F9568937471F57@Mobil>

You are in search for me?
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tony Drews
  To: triumph_marx at freenet.de
  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:40 AM
  Subject: Fwd: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx




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    Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:34 EST
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    Thanks!


    Joe Alexander
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From DSPGTi at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 19:29:56 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:29:56 EST
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <ccc.288f977c.34d3de24@aol.com>

For inside measurements I would only trust a precision micrometer, frequently 
calibrated, in the hands of an experienced user. We are looking for less than 
a half of a thousands. One or two ten thousands should be the tolerance. 
Chinese micrometers from Horrible Freight are good for estimates and surveying on 
tear down but I would never trust them for assembly. I leave the accuracy for 
the machinist and double check that I'm not screwing up with plastigauge.
 
Dave Y





**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan 31 19:40:15 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:40:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080201024015.TKLA2859.invictus@[209.143.0.77]>

Bob, right you are.  Std "size" for coil overs is 2.5".  TR3 - 6 coils are 4".  Hyper coil and all the othe mfg's cannot go to a magic box and come up with any "inexpensive" spring unless it is a commonly used size.  We have abouyt 1000 springs a  year madae for us.  Dpoing custom springs is not cheap.  Especially if you need the spring mfg. to do all the engineering - load, coil bind, coil defelection, how accurate do you want variation (our springs are+=/- 2%) etc.  UK springs can vary as mcuh as 10%. Ted
> 
> From: Robert Lang <lang at isis.mit.edu>
> Date: Thu Jan 31, 5:44 PM
> To: William G Rosenbach <wgrosenbach at juno.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net,  awashatko at wi.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:
> 
> > It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> > custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> > comprehensive line in stock.
> > A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> > would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> > multi-diameter winding?
> 
> I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
> Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.
> 
> If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
> springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
> of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
> that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
> list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
> changes what options you have for spring rates.
> 
> regards,
> rml
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
> Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
> Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 03:14:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:14:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>

Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
    who.


    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 07:38:27 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:38:27 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <F65CD6DF9F874E4997146A4B2C8788A4@Mobil>

I tried to answer the people who asked me about the AE chains but I'm blocked
as spam.

So it's not my unpoliteness it is a technical issue that I cannot answer
directly.

comcast.net does block me and some others too.

Chris


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Tue Jan  1 08:12:44 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:12:44 GMT
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
Message-ID: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>

That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed (as
had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

-- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
Maybe you chain is too long?
I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

Never had a broken tensioner.

Cheers
Chris
   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
timing
   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
with
   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
was
   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
from
   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
from
   who.


   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
am
   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru, but
   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
designed
   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
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m1USDiHRovLIlGgmdrgHZBFD/


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:03:06 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:03:06 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080101.101244.5845.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <B00ACF5993534B71888516E287AC2529@Mobil>

The AE chain is very tight fit. I hardly can install the cam wheel.
After running the chain a little while installing is getting a little easier.
We have a very good quality chain manufacturer here in Germany but their
chains are a little longer. When installed they hang through like a worn out
chain. Very sad that I cannot use that wonderful chain.
But the AE chain is good enough for racing purpose. I replace them after 2-3
years of racing.


Chris

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joe Boruch
  To: chris at tr4-racing.de
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 4:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


  That may be a possibility, especially since the block had been align-honed
(as had all my previous blocks).  So who sells AE chains in the states?  Joe

  -- "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de> wrote:
  Maybe you chain is too long?
  I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.

  Never had a broken tensioner.

  Cheers
  Chris
     Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
  timing
     chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not all
  with
     this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while this one
  was
     used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These have been
  from
     the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which one was
  from
     who.


     Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or what I
  am
     doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing thru,
but
     rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
  designed
     tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


  _____________________________________________________________
  Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.


From kenandtweety at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  1 09:08:53 2008
From: kenandtweety at yahoo.com (Ken Suhre)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Valvecover venting
In-Reply-To: <4779737A.6000100@charter.net>
Message-ID: <394579.4465.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Glenn,

I was a tech in the trenches of a dealership. I should
have made that distinction. I am still employed as a
service quality tech. Which means I get to test drive
when the need arises, anything from an Omni to a
Viper. 
As an introduction of myself to the group, which I
don't believe has been done, I am the keeper of the
flame in the Don Brick TR4. My son Jonathan owns the
car. It is in the process of freshening up. 
I have been quietly gathering tips on preparation of
TRs from the vast experience and minds of FOTers since
being nominated to the list.
I purchased my first sports car in 1958. A '56 TR3. I
joined the TSOA and still have a few copies of the
newsletter. I ran my first race in '59 on an airport
course in Vishi, Mo. The racing virus has been in my
blood ever since. It did lay dormant from '64 to '90.
My current street use sports car is a '57 TR3A. My
racing wheels however since completition of a total
vintage race preparation, has been one of those pesky
Morris Minis. A '61 Mini Minor prepared to Cooper S
specs.
Our plans are to get the TR4 back on the track and
possibly to Watkins Glen with me as driver if Jonathan
can't swing it.
By the way my dad bought a new Ferguson TO20 tractor
that I began driving when I was ten. So consider me
one of the first British tractor engine drivers in the
group. Ha!

Ken Suhre

--- Glenn Franco <gaf3 at charter.net> wrote:

> Right on Ken
> Where were you a tech for Chrysler in Detroit or in
> a dealership.
> I retired a year ago from Jeep Truck Engineering in
> Detroit.
> Glenn Franco
> Spit racer and several TR's
> 
> Ken Suhre wrote:
> > Being a Chrysler Corp. technician for some 38
> years, I
> > have a pretty good understanding of emission
> systems
> > on automobiles.
> >
> > The positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve is
> what
> > controls the flow of engine crancase vapors to the
> > intake manifold. It has an orifaced check valve
> that
> > only allows flow when vacum is applied as the
> engine
> > is running. Air is drawn into the engine through a
> > filtered inlet in the aircleaner system, usually
> > through a hose to the opposite valve cover of a
> vee
> > type engine.
> >
> > The charcoal canister is there only to recover
> fuel
> > vapors from the tank and carburator if it has one.
> > When the engine is running above an idle these
> vapors
> > are purged from the charcoal by the intake
> manifold
> > vacum. Usually through an orifaced port to control
> the
> > amount of flow.
> >
> > Probably boring information to most vintage
> racers.
> > But I just had to try to clear up the confusion.
> >
> > Ken Suhre
> > <I believe that when a closed
> >  system
> > was required by emmission control regulations, the
> > pop-off valve was
> > employed to direct venting to the intake manifold
> when
> > the vehicle is
> > stationary, and to the carbon canister when the
> > vehicle is in motion.
> >  Please
> > correct me if I am wrong. (Was replacement of the
> > carbon canister a
> >  part of
> > scheduled maintenance?)
> >
> > Steve P>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 09:33:07 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:33:07 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
Message-ID: <94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>

I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get them.
'Maybe Moss has them in USA?

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


> Happy New Year Chris!
> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in my  
> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
> Thanks
> Jerry Barr
> 
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
> 
>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>
>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>    Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another broken
>> timing
>>    chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken (not  
>> all
>> with
>>    this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while  
>> this one
>> was
>>    used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These  
>> have been
>> from
>>    the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which  
>> one was
>> from
>>    who.
>>
>>
>>    Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others, or  
>> what I
>> am
>>    doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing  
>> thru, but
>>    rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>> designed
>>    tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan  1 10:04:10 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:04:10 +0100
Subject: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
In-Reply-To: <D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
References: <BC67C42CF4744FFFBE311EB21549F91C@Mobil>
	<C249DF86-4519-432D-8259-7CE1BC6593AC@charter.net>
	<94DF1EE850F2418D89F0D42FD2298E24@Mobil>
	<D768D022-2D3C-464A-9302-3D7A159A0E26@charter.net>
Message-ID: <EC52C91FEBA24A12A65B0D4DE68F2379@Mobil>

I explain a little further.

I have a dealer in Germany as sponsor for my racing.
Deal is that I get some parts for free and has to return a report about the 
quality.
>From this reports and their own testing they choose which parts they sell.
They are always searching for good quality parts.
They are not the cheapest on the market but I like their attitude as a 
dealer.
http://www.british-car-parts.de/

If you can't get good parts in USA maybe I can help you out?

Cheers
Chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner


>I haven't tried Moss but I got a chain for my GT6 from Victoria  British 
>and it was some strange third world thing that looked like it  was made 
>with a hammer and chisel.
> On Jan 1, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>
>> I buy the chain by my local dealer. I don't know where he does get  them.
>> 'Maybe Moss has them in USA?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Barr"  <jerrybarr at charter.net>
>> To: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] TR3/4 Timing Chain Tensioner
>>
>>
>>> Happy New Year Chris!
>>> Where do you buy the AE chain? I would like to use that chain in  my 
>>> Street TR3. I am building a TR4 engine for it.
>>> Thanks
>>> Jerry Barr
>>> On Jan 1, 2008, at 4:14 AM, Marx Christian tr4-racing wrote:
>>>> Maybe you chain is too long?
>>>> I use AE chains. I found them to be the shortest on the market.
>>>>
>>>> Never had a broken tensioner.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Chris
>>>>   Amici, I took my engine apart this weekend and found another  broken
>>>> timing
>>>>   chain tensioner.  This is the 3rd or 4th one that has broken  (not 
>>>> all
>>>> with
>>>>   this same block).  Some have broken in a season or less, while   this 
>>>> one
>>>> was
>>>>   used last season and then failed sometime this season.  These   have 
>>>> been
>>>> from
>>>>   the 3 major parts suppliers, but I did not keep track of which   one 
>>>> was
>>>> from
>>>>   who.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Any suggestions on oned that seem to last longer than others,  or 
>>>> what I
>>>> am
>>>>   doing wrong that is causing the failures?  They are not wearing 
>>>> thru, but
>>>>   rather are snapping off about an inch from the pivot.  Any better
>>>> designed
>>>>   tensioners out there for the tractor motors?  Joe(B)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 10:33:25 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 12:33:25 EST
Subject: [Fot] WATKINS GLEN HOTELS
Message-ID: <cb7.1edc11be.34abd365@cs.com>

FoT,

I expect to talk to Andrea Stowe of the Hampton Inn about a second hotel, 
that is one of their properties. Will have more to report in a few days.  

I had no idea, when I started this, that entries and attendance would be so 
huge. 

In the meantime, this offering comes from Joe B  (Joe is going to run his TR3 
with us).  read below. It is new hotel opening in 2008.

Joe, I stopped by the village of Watkins Glen yesterday and there is a new 
hotel at the north end of downtown on the lake that is to be completed early in 
2008.  It is partly closed to the weather already, thus looks to be ahead of 
schedule.  It may be worth looking into, and is in a much better location than 
the Hampton Inn.  Their website is <A HREF="http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/">http://www.watkinsglenharborhotel.com/</A>.  
There is an online form to complete for an RFP.  Not sure how many rooms we need 
or what dates you specified, or I would have submitted it.  
Joe(B)
   </HTML>


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 11:37:06 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 13:37:06 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>

Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere in 
the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring my 
friends here.

CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on to 
a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity to 
smoke a little Peyote, too.

The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none of 
them inhale. 

And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great Howard 
Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of stuff 
happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)

So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting.  These 
guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The real 
truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from Chicago or 
Milwaukee. 

During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming to 
hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far more 
entertaining.

Joe A


   </HTML>


From budscars at msn.com  Tue Jan  1 12:34:14 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 11:34:14 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
References: <cc5.263fabd7.34abe252@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP14C7C1185A03E5D6A592B2C6510@CEZ.ICE>

AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
Racer Bud
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <N197TR4 at cs.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths


> Iowa is a wonderful place to live.....and I can find a race track anywhere 
> in
> the world from here, and always happy to return. Sometimes, I even bring 
> my
> friends here.
>
> CAUCUS  is a derivative of an Indian word that loosely means to, 'press on 
> to
> a gathering of the great chiefs'.  I suspect this was also an opportunity 
> to
> smoke a little Peyote, too.
>
> The Iowa Caucus also represents a Great Blowing of Smoke....of course none 
> of
> them inhale.
>
> And you never know what is going to happen. In 2004, it was the Great 
> Howard
> Dean Meltdown.  (All of the candidates would rather have this kind of 
> stuff
> happen in Iowa, than, say, New York)
>
> So far we have had a couple Presidential Hopefuls go Pheasant Hunting. 
> These
> guys think everyone in Iowa has a shotgun & goes Pheasant Hunting. The 
> real
> truth is that most of the guys hunting are insurance executives from 
> Chicago or
> Milwaukee.
>
> During Iowa's Pheasant Season, I think most of the Iowa guys go to Wyoming 
> to
> hunt deer.....because it is safer there. And the bars in Laramie are far 
> more
> entertaining.
>
> Joe A
>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan  1 12:45:01 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:45:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Iowa Caucus and Other Myths
Message-ID: <c3d.28f7871d.34abf23d@cs.com>

it took me a moment, Racer Bud....but finally an image of Howard Dean emerged.

Good one!


> AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE ..  WATKINS GLEN..AND WE'RE GONNA TAKE PORTLAND AND 
> WE'RE GONNA TAKE LAGUNA SECA...AND WE'RE GONNA GO FLAT OUT THROUGH THE 
> CORKSCREW...YEAAAAAHAAAA!
> Racer Bud
> 

   </HTML>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Tue Jan  1 15:08:53 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:08:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve cover venting
Message-ID: <200801012209.m01M8x2K222793@ns3.geneseo.net>

The major hot rod suppliers sell a kit for this. It includes a pair 
of pipes to weld into your exhaust headers, two one-way valves to 
prevent backfires from blowing off your valve cover, and some misc 
parts. Real cheap at something like $50..

I did this early on in my vintage career and when I mentioned it on 
the net I got royally flamed. It's against the SCCA rules. I could 
never understand the objection - after all, if you blow an engine, 
you put the oil directly on the track. I never saw oil coming out of 
my tailpipe. I took mine off - Joe left his on and continues to leak 
less oil with the kit than without.

More substantive info, however, comes from my local speed shop. They 
run a NHRA national championship engine and do a lot of dyno work. 
They recently tested two systems that do this. One system uses a GM 
air pump and pulls a negative pressure -- on their engine it added 20 
hp to a 500 hp engine. That kit is commercially available for about 
$500. They also tried the exhaust-sucked system and found it added no hp.

I still like it, though. Data be damned.

uncle jack 


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Tue Jan  1 22:17:07 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:17:07 +1000
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
this thread. 
Owing an engine shop means I have a bit of a chance to experiment. We have
made various mods on a single 2500 head (casting # 219021) and flow tested
each one of them. At the simplest end, it was dead stock, followed by
various versions of most folk call a "port & polish". The final end of the
head was fully downdrafted, with the head chopped away and a 35mm pipe
pressed in  from the top corner of the head downwards at about 60 degrees. A
bit of port putty and some die grinder work, made quite a nice job of the
merge.
In all cases we had the stock valves and factory width seats. The guides
were progressively shortened as the porting got more radical.
The stock head kept flowing to 0.500" and rapidly flattened
The port work increased the flow by about 20% up to 0.300" lift where the
results started to come together.  At 0.450" lift, the fully downdrafted
port flowed EXACTLY the same as the stock port. 
This tells me the stock valves/seats/chamber etc are the limiting factor in
max flow, not the ports or lift. 
I now have some Titanium race valves with 7mm stems to trial. I'll reduce
the seat width and further modify the chamber and see if I can get any
better results.
There have been a few comments in this thread about roller rockers and cam
lift. Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then the
only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this. The biggest influences are the
diameter of the cam follower and the mass being moved.  The stock lifter can
be enlarged (considerable cost as machining is time consuming) and very
small changes make a lot of difference. Because of this, just reading
published cam data is often a waste of time. Any reputable cam grinder will
advise how fast the cam acceleration ramp can be for any given lifter
diameter. Anything that can be done to lighten the valve train is a good
thing.
In relation to the prior comments about dyno results being used to
prove/disprove the worth of roller rockers, I have to cast some doubts over
making definitive statement on measurements of 1-2%. Only the very best
temperature and humidity controlled dyno cells can achieve such
repeatability. We operate both engine and chassis dynos, and generally
ignore results unless they show more than 3% change, once corrections are
made for ambient temperature and humidity. For example, when testing a 2500
race engine, a change in engine water or oil temperature of about 10degress,
can make a 3-5% difference in max power. Some other engines . like the well
known 4AG Toyota, will show much larger swings from temperature changes.
Because of this, comparisons have to be made under as near to identical
circumstances as possible. Peak power readings can rarely achieve what you
need to know, so you have to run acceleration tests and load cycles to make
valid comparisons.
I'd be happy to swap real results with anyone else who might have the same.
I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
experimented with larger valves and lifters.

Terry O'Beirne


From kaskas at cox.net  Tue Jan  1 23:04:31 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 22:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Fot] '63 Sebring Race Video ...
References: <018001c84cee$2785b2a0$0202a8c0@DDRC6B81>
Message-ID: <043e01c84d05$577ffd00$d214c548@RW>

There are a couple of shot of my team cars at the Webster turn. White TR-4
coupes


  Two (2) minutes of amateur 16mm film footage shot at the '63 Sebring Race.
1st location is the bleachers at the MG bridge. 2nd location is from the
bleachers at the Webster turn(s).

  http://www.corvette-videos.com/watch/?vid=7778


From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 03:42:04 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:42:04 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA73C@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:30:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:30:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>

Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger
 


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan  2 08:40:48 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002301c84d55$d9174940$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Bill,
Best Buy has one TomTom model on sale for $150 that has the features that
you are interested in.  Unfortunately, They are out of stock for online
sales and are only available in selected stores.  My local store is not one
of them.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 08:45:46 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:45:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all 
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 08:50:59 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:50:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
Message-ID: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that it works better than the Megellan that I also have. 
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not 
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for 
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, albeit 
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features like 
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>> 
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes 
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:48:18 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:48:18 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

wow, great data. I don't have a dyno yet, and my flow bench is still just a
set of plans. But when I do, we'll certainly talk.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Terry and Cindy
Sent: Tue 1/1/2008 9:17 PM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 08:55:05 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steve Belfer)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c84d57$d82f4850$0301000a@Chowdown>

One of them uses the voice of "MR-T" to give directions. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10038326/



~S


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products


> Amici...
>
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and 
> traveling,
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much 
> this
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards 
> a
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest 
> to me.
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************************************
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 08:55:23 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 07:55:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
References: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F110415E@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets very
well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our attention to
it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Wed Jan  2 09:09:04 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Terry,
Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
therebye
having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
arrangement has little to do with this.
Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
as further?
Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
difference.
Thanks,
Bill


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 09:16:03 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 08:16:03 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <c79.24b39912.34ad0baa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA781@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Ok, I already did privately.

I bought a Garmin Nuvi in Wisconsin on the first leg of the All Aluminum Tour
when I got lost trying to find Elkhart Lake. I figured it would pay for itself
in diesel saved. It's done better than that. I got the cheapest one because I
also didn't need MP3, cupholder or massage unit. My wife has a super-expensive
GPS system in her Bentley with five or six CDs of supporting data. It sucks by
comparison to the Nuvi. Better directions, better features, etc., etc. And you
can stick it in your pocket and take it from vehicle to vehicle and even on
your bicycle (though an iPhone with google maps is way better for finding
stuff when you're on a bicycle or walking).


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Gt6steve at aol.com
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 7:45 AM
To: spitlist at cox.net; BillDentin at aol.com; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I'd implore every one to respond publicly to this excellent  query.  We all
tow, often great distances, so the question is  germane...Steve



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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:46:32 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>

Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and 
the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box 
and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.

In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
the internet for downloading.

and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local 
police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in 
the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the 
thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the 
windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break 
in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a street light.

uncle jack 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 09:53:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:53:09 EST
Subject: [Fot]  GPS Products
Message-ID: <c17.2972bba8.34ad1b75@cs.com>

I got a cheapie off of eBay....

I wouldnt leave home without one, now that I have it. Then they offered 
specials this Christmas for $150 on a couple of brands.

There is an enormous amount of information contained in that little plastic 
box.

It is not a total replacement for a good Atlas, but almost.

Joe A




> Amici...
> 
> I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling, 
> but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this 
> year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've 
> not 
> spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a 
> Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy 
> for 
> $249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar, 
> albeit 
> about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features 
> like 
> telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to 
> me.
> 
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.  
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
> 
> Bill Dentinger
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>


From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 09:58:23 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
Message-ID: <14312380.3573791199293196304.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net>

Jack;
     I have a Megellan 360 and it can be updated thru there web site via a UBS cable.

Dean T.



>From: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 10:46:32 CST
>To: fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution

>Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work 
>great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old 
>guys). >
>In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on 
>the internet for downloading.


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 09:59:56 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:59:56 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with 
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved 
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4 
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much 
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of 
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve 
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that 
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results 
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jerrybarr at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:06:53 2008
From: jerrybarr at charter.net (Jerry Barr)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:06:53 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>

One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 10:32:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>

Bill Dentin asked:

> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
> Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.

Shane Ingate in NM

PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
saving for the enclosed trailer.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007


From benchmarkmap at charter.net  Wed Jan  2 10:33:07 2008
From: benchmarkmap at charter.net (Fred & Carolyn Easton)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:33:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
References: <200801021646.m02GkbSK059258@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c84d65$8a238b40$6401a8c0@INTERNET>

As a another word of caution, we purchased a Garmin Nuvi 700 series from 
Best Buy only to find out you cannot navigate to a programmed destination 
and view your speed at the same time.  You can view speed if you don't 
navigate.  With our TR6 having different tires, OD transmission, and 
infinity diff, our Speedo is, to say the least, inaccurate.  We were 
planning on the mph aspect of the gps unit being a help.

We decided to take this back to Best Buy and were informed of the 15% 
restock fee.  This amounted to $105!!!!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Barr" <jerrybarr at charter.net>
To: "Jack W. Drews" <vinttr4 at geneseo.net>
Cc: "Friends of Triumph" <FOT at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


> One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road
> or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in
> Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
> On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
>> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
>> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
>> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
>> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
>> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>>
>> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
>> the internet for downloading.
>>
>> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
>> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
>> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
>> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
>> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
>> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a
>> street light.
>>
>> uncle jack
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From greenman62 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  2 11:05:59 2008
From: greenman62 at hotmail.com (greenman62 at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:05:59 +0000
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W19641D1120B1FB973340378C520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU129-W15881697F5E49478408D95D2520@phx.gbl>

> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.

Yeah... and then not askc the locals for directions...

...not that it would help. I once asked a beat cop in NYC where I could find
the Illustrators Club and gave him the street address... He had no idea. We
were just one block away.

Greg Petrolati Champaign, Illinois

That's not a leak... My car's just marking its territory...



> From: hottr6 at hotmail.com
> To: billdentin at aol.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:32:33 -0500
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> Bill Dentin asked:
>
> > I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
> > Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>
> Real Men don't use GPS.  We'd rather get lost.
>
> Hilarity aside, all GPS systems offer very poor support for Macs.
> This is a bummer especially if you want to add hi-res topography.
> Maybe not so important when you stick to US pavement, but I am
> off-road a lot, often with helo-support in unfamiliar countries.
> My copy of GPSy is on life-support, but works well.
>
> Shane Ingate in NM
>
> PS  New Year present is a Cheby 2500 Duramax 4x4.  Now have to start
> saving for the enclosed trailer.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:24:10 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:24:10 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <bef.1d6be314.34ad30ca@cs.com>

Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander   </HTML>


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:31:19 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:31:19 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

Sorry for the confusion, if any.

Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

Joe Alexander    
_______________________________________________


Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
 
We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test  
day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but that  
hasn't been decided.
 
2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 11:36:53 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:36:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] FOT Nomination - John McCue
Message-ID: <bd6.240a8d49.34ad33c5@cs.com>

JOHN McCUE              slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net     

Please second John McCue.

He is preparing a GT6 for combat in the ranks of SVRA....about a year away, 
so he can use our help and encouragment.

Presently he campaigns a Midget, so I figure he is moving up.

Thanks,

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 11:58:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:58:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d0e.1b9c3a92.34ad38d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/02/2008 12:25:10 PM Central Standard Time, 
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:


> Henry Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.
> 
> I looked at the SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It is 
> 
> not linked yet.  It does show a Practice Day
> 
> Perhaps Jack W can comment on this?
> 
> If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on Wednesday.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion, if any.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Henry Frye.
> 

Joe...

Last year (2007) I seem to recall there were 'extra-cost' practice/test 
sessions run on Wednesday.  The regular group sessions began on Thursday and are 
included in the entry fee.  The TR3 & TR4s (for instance) ran in Group THREE, 
which had two sessions on Thursday, one on Friday, two sessions on Saturday, and 
one on Sunday.  There was also a one hour (extra cost) enduro on Friday.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From goodparts at verizon.net  Wed Jan  2 14:44:27 2008
From: goodparts at verizon.net (Richard Good)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:44:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>

Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.

Richard Good
Good Parts

William G Rosenbach wrote:

>Terry,
>Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>therebye
>having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>arrangement has little to do with this.
>Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>as further?
>Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>difference.
>Thanks,
>Bill
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Wed Jan  2 14:35:34 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:35:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread that stops when fully
threaded into the float bowl. I know this now because I determined that
the bolt broke because I had added a lock washer to the mix and the bolt
was not fully threaded into the bowl, leaving some thread unsupported by
a slightly loose float bowl. I didn't have a spare so I tried a simple
1/4" bolt but without the stop I had to tighten it a little tighter than
I wanted resulting in the dreaded foamy fuel syndrome. I was lucky to
find a proper bolt that evening but my backup plan was to use some brass
tubing bushes I found at Lowes over the bolt and fill the cavity with
silicone sealant. In my hunting for a proper shouldered bolt I learned
that some models of HS carburetors have rubber angle adapters where the
TR4A version is a solid piece of aluminum. I am now thinking of
following through on my homemade solution because he silicone would aid
in eliminating vibration radiating through to the float bowl. My
question to the group is that I'm wondering if others have had this
problem?.

BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:39:00 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re:  GPS Products]
In-Reply-To: <14507199.3537641199289059349.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEIEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

The only thing to be careful of when using a laptop
in the car is if you use a power inverter, unplug it
before restarting your car. I killed my Compaq last
fall when I restarted the car and a surge over-powered
the power supply.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
tr3a58 at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:51 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] [Fwd: Re: GPS Products]


>From: tr3a58 at verizon.net
>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:49:45 CST
>To: BillDentin at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

>Bill;
>      If you have a laptop computer, the best deal is from DeLorme, the map
people. The Earthmate GPS-20 is an antenna that plugs into the UBS port of
the laptop and has the software to make it a full GPS system. Check out
www.delorme.com and look at the GPS LT-20. sells for about $70. I find that
it works better than the Megellan that I also have.
>
>Dean Tetterton
>
>Oh, I broke an axle on the Warwick in Dec. and broke up the left rear
fender. Lost the wheel and the body flexed and poped out the rear glass and
broke it. Might be awhile before the Warwick is racing again...
>
>
>
>
>>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>>Date: 2008/01/02 Wed AM 09:30:02 CST
>>To: fot at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>>Amici...
>>
>>I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and
traveling,
>>but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much
this
>>year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've
not
>>spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards
a
>>Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy
for
>>$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
>>about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
>>telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest
to me.
>>
>>I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
>>Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.
>>
>>Bill Dentinger
>>
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See AOL's top rated recipes
>>(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>_______________________________________________
>>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>>Fot mailing list
>>Fot at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan  2 14:42:56 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:42:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GPS and one caution
In-Reply-To: <94165D9A-1AF0-4441-9C2A-5FA9CC2F79DB@charter.net>
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOBDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Or if you have a problem like me. Once when using my Garmin
on the way back from Alabama, I followed the instructions
and it wanted to send me on a 'shortcut' to bypass an
interchange in Louisville. If I had followed the instructions,
I would have driven from Louisville to Lexington on side
roads before the next opportunity to get on the x-way.

I have also had problems when, after removing the batteries
for an extended period of non-use, I forgot to reset the mode,
and it wanted me to follow footpaths and trails instead of the
x-way.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+dmitchel=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
Jerry Barr
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:07 PM
To: Jack W. Drews
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS and one caution


One caution about the shortest route! Be prepared to take a farm road  
or in my case a named path through a farmers field somewhere in  
Indiana. No harm was done to any farm animals
On Jan 2, 2008, at 10:46 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> Several of us bought Magellans last year on eBay. Really cheap, work
> great, didn't need instructions to learn (important factor for us old
> guys). It has a few shortcomings but nothing major. We love them and
> the eBay purchasing experience worked well, the units were new in box
> and $50 cheaper than even Best Buy.
>
> In retrospect I'd purchase a unit that has updated maps available on
> the internet for downloading.
>
> and, oh yes -- you may want to talk to your best friend in a local
> police department about theft. These are a prime target if left in
> the car, and all it takes is a busted window to get it. And the
> thieves are pretty clever -- if they spot the ring left on the
> windshield in the former location of the suction cup, they may break
> in and search for the unit you hid under the seat. park under a  
> street light.
>
> uncle jack
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From niteseeker at aol.com  Wed Jan  2 16:22:23 2008
From: niteseeker at aol.com (dick ross)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:22:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] gps
Message-ID: <B24E724F-0423-47B6-B468-77D9591E8558@aol.com>

Here are a couple that were in my mail box this evening.

NAVGTOUR NT-147 GPS  $119

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205810212&adid=17653&dcaid=17653


GARMIN street Pilot c330 GPS  $154

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?EDP=40155795&Source=EWB010208EML


From henry at henryfrye.com  Wed Jan  2 16:54:25 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:25 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
In-Reply-To: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAF@server.Triumph.local>

Gee, excuse me for assuming we would have the same schedule as last
year...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: JWoesvra at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions
>
> Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?
>
> We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an
> extra cost test day open to everyone. We may have one session
> for TR's late in the day but that hasn't been decided.
>
> 2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Wed Jan  2 17:41:22 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 00:41:22 GMT
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
Message-ID: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>

Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

-- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:
Amici...

I've been interested in obtaining a GPS system for long tows and traveling,
but recently wife Shirley has suggested I've already spent way too much this
year on toys and related.  So I waited.  This is now a new year, and I've not
spent anything...yet.  So I am out looking.  I seem to be leaning towards a
Garmin-NUVI200 GPS (Model 010-00621-10/SKU 8286516) available at Best Buy for
$249.99.  I've also considered the TomTom One XL-S which seems similar,
albeit
about $50 more.  I am interested in 'directions and maps'.  Other features
like
telephone attachments, MP3, video capacity, etc., are of little interest to
me.

I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS systems.
Please contact me off list, so we don't bore the others.

Bill Dentinger



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click now to choose from thousands of designs for your checks!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmR6zGFeHhRlGIooqSuaH9EB
tRR7rTO75T2eBqCakd5zGKlO/


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:39:20 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:39:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that I
loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to use it. I
went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone to play
with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about what I
had paid for it, and never looked back.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
the built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto
the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
presented it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's
bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone
has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
you are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 17:44:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
References: <mailman.40650.1198722363.12556.fot@autox.team.net><20080102051830.ZKRR24011.oaamta07sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
	<200801021700.m02H0sGh076230@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA786@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Years ago  a sharp machinist in Long Beach, CA did what he called a spherical
seat on the intake of my Matchless G80CS desert sled (single cylinder 500cc
motorcycle) Gave it a noticeable power boost with no apparent change in the
power band. I always figure an improvement you can feel with the seat of your
pants is at least 10%. The "spherical seat" was just a curved seat--no
angles--that was lapped by hand to seat the valve.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Jack W. Drews
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:59 AM
To: Terry and Cindy; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Terry, thanks for sharing this with us. I found the same thing with
my flow bench work on both Spitfires and TR6's.

Thanks for telling us about the straight port experiment - you saved
me all the work of trying this next.

One thing that I found interesting is the flow I measure on both 4
and 6 bangers with the valve totally removed did not increase as much
as I expected, and like you, could only conclude that the diameter of
the seat was pretty limiting. I have found that the 3-angle valve
seats act as advertised and are the biggest single improvement that
one can make.

At 11:17 PM 1/1/2008, Terry and Cindy wrote:
>I have yet to trial any roller rockers but it is planned for the in-progress
>rebuild of our race GT6 engine. I can however offer some real-world comments
>on head flow and related matters that might clear up some mis-conceptions in
>this thread....................................
>...............................I'd be happy to swap real results
>with anyone else who might have the same.
>I'd really like to hear from folk with cam data and anyone else who has
>experimented with larger valves and lifters.
>
>Terry O'Beirne
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  2 18:56:46 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:56:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] HS6 float bowl cross bolt
In-Reply-To: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com
  >
References: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BEDE859@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>
Message-ID: <200801030156.m031uqdx341824@ns3.geneseo.net>

I had the same problem, and then found that others had this problem 
as well. I solved mine by drilling out the carb body and float bowl 
and putting in a larger bolt, hoping for a longer duration between failures.

At 03:35 PM 1/2/2008, Kramer, Robert wrote:
>I recently broke an HS6 float bowl retaining bolt. This bolt is a
>special 3/8" shoulder with a 1/4" course thread .........

.........

>BTW, I got black flagged for dumping fuel and avoided a potential fire
>with the float bowl suspended by the jet tube and 2 hoses.

The worst part is it screws up the mixture and you can't drive fast 
enough to get away from the fire.


>Bob Kramer
>Sales Manager
>RDO Equipment Co.
>16415 North IH 35
>Pflugerville, TX 78660
>512-272-4141
>Fx 512-272-9365
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

uncle jack 


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 19:45:07 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:45:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that 
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to 
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone 
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about 
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the 
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down 
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get 
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my 
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 19:59:07 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:59:07 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080103025807.0B8BE187A1A@autox.team.net>

He has - had an Apple laptop of some sort with him on the All Aluminum Tour...

- Tony

At 08:45 PM 1/2/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Bill,
>
>You should try their computers.
>
>Allen
>
>On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:
>
> > The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> > smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> > I
> > loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> > use it. I
> > went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> > to play
> > with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> > pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> > what I
> > had paid for it, and never looked back.


From BillB at bnj.com  Wed Jan  2 19:54:19 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA785@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<fa365ac91cfa6e6fc659e214b5806497@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA788@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I switched from a PC to a Mac about a year ago. Impossible for a diehard
windows geek to do, I thought. But I wouldn't touch a PC now, except to run
the few programs I really need that aren't available on a Mac. I bought a
Macbook Pro because I liked the case and the overall design--like nothing you
get for Windows. I expected to boot Windows all the time, but found myself
using it less and less. Now when I use any PC, especially one with Vista, I
wonder what the hell I was thinking.

As far as I'm concerned, the difference is simple. Macs work for you, PC's
work for Microsoft.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 6:45 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

Bill,

You should try their computers.

Allen

On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> The hot setup really is a GPS and a smartphone, and they don't get much
> smarter than the iPhone. I had a very top of the line Nokia (N95) that
> I
> loved, but it was taking hours a day out of my time learning how to
> use it. I
> went to an Apple store to buy a new power supply, picked up an iPhone
> to play
> with it, and found I knew how to use every feature--apparently I come
> pre-wired for apple stuff. Sold my expensive Nokia on eBay for about
> what I
> had paid for it, and never looked back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Henry Frye
> Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 8:58 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products
>
> I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has
> the built in traffic receiver.
>
> I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the
> simple
> reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
> dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down
> onto
> the dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are,
> also food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.
>
> I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory
> nav systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it
> presented it.
>
> The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily
> the fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until
> it gets a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from
> perfect. Helen tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get
> it's
> bearings, but did eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington
> DC.
>
> I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be
> interested to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in
> traffic nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my
> smartphone
> has shown much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to
> include traffic, so I have been thinking about it.
>
>> From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
> waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where
> you are going.
>
> Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.
>
> Cheers
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BillDentin at aol.com
>> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>>
>>
>> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
> systems.
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Wed Jan  2 20:13:10 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:13:10 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

I stand correcting......... for any given camshaft, the average valve velocity will change with a rocker ratio change. For example, if changing the rocker ratio increases valve lift to say 16mm instead of 13mm, then the average velocity increase is 16/13 or 12%.  this is because the lift occurs in the same time (cam/crank moves the same amount).
What I really should have said originally, is, the biggest useful influence over the rate of valve opening, is the camshaft, because flow testing suggests you need a big increase in rate of lift early in the cycle, not just averaged. 
I will take some measurements of cam rates on various Triumph cams and report back.
To the various folk who emailed me about lifters, I understand various sized lifters can be fitted---its just a case of boring out the 12 lifter bores (tedious job).  Cam grinders will specify the minimum cam follower diameter their cam will successfuly work on. The faster the acceleration rate of the cam, the larger the lifter diameter required. If you dont get the lifter diamter correct, the cam will edge ride. This means the lower edge of the lifter will try to dig into the cam, rather than ride up and over it.
I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data, or even what is the most agreeive cam people have found to work on stock lifters.
Terry O'Beirne


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 20:23:38 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:23:38 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Computers
Message-ID: <9a6f72dc820c4db3e3ac8736ae5273ae@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

Absolutely!
I own a 30 person architectural practice and we have been using Mac's 
since 1988. When we get a new machine, we just plug it in and start 
using it. They are very intuitive as you know which is exactly why we 
chose to go the Apple direction.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 20:34:49 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:34:49 EST
Subject: [Fot] Back on the Freinds of Triumph Mailing list for Bill Redinger
Message-ID: <d67.1fb62bc9.34adb1d9@cs.com>

Mark Bradakis,   Please pop Bill back on the FoT list.   He was accidently 
dropped.


 Bill Redinger          wredinger at oppd.com

For you that know Bill....he a Tireless Supporter of Triumph (which makes 
them hard to drive)....please welcome him back to the list.

Bill Redinger will be joining us at Watkins Glen in September, driving in 
from Nebraska.  

Tom Strange....you can add Bill to the list of attendees, too.

Thanks!       Joe A   </HTML>


From tony at tonydrews.com  Wed Jan  2 20:49:29 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:49:29 -0600
Subject: [Fot] GPS
Message-ID: <20080103034822.0AD9C1879E3@autox.team.net>

Original bounced - I was at 4345 bytes.

I don't have either of those units.  But, I know how to find 
reviews...  Go to www.amazon.com and search for the GPS unit(s) 
you're interested in.  There are many reviews there.  Both units had 
reviews comparing the two (interesting that they chose both of those 
units on both reviews).  Overall, people seem pleased with both, but 
report occasional directional glitches.  The TomTom is purported to 
have more complete maps, but sometimes try to send you on a wild 
goose chase.  The TomTom will not tell you to turn around on a 2 lane 
road if you miss a turn.  It seems to be up to you to figure that out.

I, like Jack and Joe, have the Magellan Roadmate 2000.  From what I 
read, Magellan is rated lower than Garmin or TomTom.  While my unit 
has a USB port and the ability to update firmware, no new maps have 
been released for it by Magellan.  The new interchange on 894 (?) 
through Milwaukee confuses it a bit, although it provides good enough 
directions that it all worked out OK.

The TomTom will give you spoken street names (sometimes garbled if it 
can't figure out how to pronounce them).  To me that's not a big 
deal.  I turn right when my Magellan tells me to turn right and all 
is generally well.  I find that it occasionally misses telling me to 
turn when I'm staying on the same "route" but the "route" bears right 
or left.  For interstate use it's flawless.

While I don't need the bells and whistles (MP3 player, slideshow, 
bluetooth, etc.), having a well stocked Points Of Interest (POI) 
database can be a valuable thing, especially once you've arrived at 
the race or are looking for a hotel midway there to spend the 
night.  Mine found the grocery store in Independence, Iowa.  But, it 
had no clue where the nearest Best Buy was in Seattle.

For trips to Mosport, having Canada maps would be nice.

So, in summary, the features I'd be looking for if I wanted to 
upgrade my Magellan:
updateable maps with a vendor who actually provides these updates
larger POI database
Potentially, Canada maps

I will say that after using my Magellan for a week, I wondered how 
I'd ever gotten along without it.  It TOTALLY took the stress out of 
driving around in Seattle.  I was in the HOV lane, and it had a weird 
exit between the regular lane and the HOV lane that I inadvertently 
took.  Normally that's an Oh SH*T moment, but it calmly told me to 
turn right and left until we were back on the highway.  Took less 
than 5 min and we were back in the HOV lane flying.

Also, the "shortest time" routes work well.  "Shortest distance" is 
probably questionable in any GPS unit.  "Least use of freeways" is 
the way to go when driving a convertible in the summertime.  My drive 
from Joe's wedding back home was glorious because of that unit.

One thing to note: <snip>

- Tony


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  2 21:17:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 23:17:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
Message-ID: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>

FoT,

Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world 
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to our 
world? 

John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com

John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored 
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a 
TV series.
Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the 
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.  
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

Joe Alexander    </HTML>


From jibjib at att.net  Wed Jan  2 22:44:16 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 21:44:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
References: <d4e.1d137ba1.34ad07fa@aol.com>
	<2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FCAD@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <02fa01c84dcb$ae241800$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Henry,

We have a Volvo XC90 with a nav screen that rises up out of the top of the
dash into an awesome position; very well thought our and effective.  The
steering wheel has controls and a remote control works too.  Unfortunately,
the rest of the system, while not a bad system, is not up to the same level
of sophistication as are the better aftermarket units.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Henry Frye
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:58 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products

I have a Garmin Nuvi 350. I think it's one model below the one that has the
built in traffic receiver.

I think it kicks butt on any factory installed NAV system for the simple
reason it gets mounted to the bottom of the windshield or top of the
dashboard and is an easy glance to see rather than looking way down onto the
dash. Touch the screen and it tells you where the gas stations are, also
food, hotel, etc. Full trip set info as well.

I have ridden in an 07 Honda CRX and an 07 Audi A4, both with factory nav
systems and I preferred what the Nuvi was telling me, and how it presented
it.

The system will always get you where you are going, but not necessarily the
fastest route. It does not work in cities with tall buildings until it gets
a good signal, then it kind of deals OK, but is far from perfect. Helen
tells me it took many blocks in New York City to get it's bearings, but did
eventually find itself. It worked great in Washington DC.

I don't know how the units that get traffic data work, I would be interested
to hear from someone who has one. The Garmin has put me in traffic
nightmares, and using my GoogleMaps application on my smartphone has shown
much better routes available. The Nuvi 350 is upgradeable to include
traffic, so I have been thinking about it.

>From the very first trip I was so impressed with it I was shocked I
waited so long to buy one. It takes ALL the stress out of finding where you
are going.

Jack is right about these things being hot for thieves at the moment.

Cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BillDentin at aol.com
> Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
>
>
> I would value hearing any strong feelings from FOT listers on GPS
systems.
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Wed Jan  2 09:08:02 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:08:02 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Suspension modifications
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA77F@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1104189@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Our website is very old in website terms and is getting a revamp in
2008.
watch this space


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com <outbind://137/www.revingtontr.com>





________________________________

From: Bill Babcock [mailto:BillB at bnj.com]
Sent: 02 January 2008 15:55
To: Neil Revington; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications



Wow, that's really slick.

Neil, your new catalog is very functional, but I don't think it markets
very well. I'd never find this part in it if you hadn't brought our
attention to it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Revington [mailto:neil at revingtontr.com]
Sent: Wed 1/2/2008 2:42 AM
To: Bill Babcock; Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Fot] Suspension modifications

Have a look at #RTR3112K on our website.
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=eng&CarType=ALL&PageType=home&ProductID=RTR3112K

Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bill Babcock
Sent: 24 December 2007 20:02
To: Jack W. Drews; Fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I don't run this modification on Peyote, but I did on my cheater TR3,
and I probably will add a version of it to Peyote this year.

I made a 1/4" steel plate that holds the pivot point using two
countersunk screws to hold the rear of the pivot to the plate. The front
pivot bolts go tthrough the original back pivot holes, and the front of
the plate bolts to the original front pivot bolt holes. This moves the
pivot back the width of the pivot bolt hole spacing--about 1.6 inches as
I recall. According to SusProg it's too much, but it's easy to do and it
works pretty well. Most of the force against the pivot pushes the plate
down against the shock towerr--I never had even a hint of bending or
other problems. In fact I forgot to fully tighten the countersunk bolts
once and didn't have any problem. Many years ago I recall seeing someone
run a TR3 with the pivot moved back and only bolted on the front side
through the rear bolt holes--same idea but a much scarier approach. In
fact it was the inspiration for my modification.

You need to make the upper arms longer to clear the shock tower and give
a proper amount of camber, so it makes sense to convert to rose joints
and have adjustability. With the stock arms you'd have about four
degrees of camber, which is too much for our semi-radial tires. I'm a
bit fuzzy on how I set that up, but I recollect it was 3 degrees with
Comp TA tires and 3.5 with Yokohama A008's. With the arms set for bias
ply tires (0 to 1 degree) I had about two degrees of camber gain at full
bump (according to my sketchy notes).


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack W. Drews [mailto:vinttr4 at geneseo.net]
Sent: Mon 12/24/2007 11:30 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: Re: [Fot] Suspension modifications

I agree with everything you've said about the camber change, the excess
at full limit, small contact patch at high camber angle, and the
advisability of leaving the upper a-arm at least as long as stock
-- maybe longer is even better. I'd like to modify my car as you
suggest.

Last winter I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how to do
that and was not successful in figuring it out. I have one photo
somewhere of one of your cars, Peyote I think,  that looks like the new
attaching points are on brackets welded to the front and back of the
tower and braced at least in the rear to the diagonal brace to the rear.

My problem was trying to figure out how to do that on a car with stock
bodywork without removing the body.

Any suggestions?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Thu Jan  3 07:47:27 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:47:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
References: <cbb.1f320d36.34ad3277@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c84e17$8fd27d50$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?  Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan and worked well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to attend!!

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: JWoesvra at aol.com
  To: N197TR4 at cs.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] Watkins Glen Thursday Sessions


  In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:24:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
  N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

  Henry  Frye informs me that Thursday is included in the entry.

  I looked at the  SVRA.com website for confirmation of this information. It
is
  not linked  yet.  It does show a Practice Day

  Perhaps Jack W can comment on  this?

  If this is the case, more folks may wish to arrive on  Wednesday.

  Sorry for the confusion, if any.

  Thanks for the heads  up Henry Frye.

  Joe Alexander
  _______________________________________________


  Maybe Henry is going to pick up the tab for Thursday?

  We haven't made the schedule yet, but Thursday will be an extra cost test
  day open to everyone. We may have one session for TR's late in the day but
that
  hasn't been decided.

  2007 was a 4 day event. Maybe that is what is confusing Henry.

  Jack Woehrle



  **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
  (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:02:16 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:02:16 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions
Message-ID: <d66.1fc0e6d8.34ae52f8@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 9:48:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jsnook at wcnet.org writes:

Hey  Jack, how about one late afternoon day test session for Triumphs?   Just
like you did at Road America last year!  That was a great plan  and worked 
well
for those who needed a little extra track time, but could  not get there for
the whole day.  Plus it is a little bonus for the  featured Marque guys, many
of whom are making a monumental effort to  attend!!


That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so  
can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and I've 
 only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan  3 08:18:20 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:18:20 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <cc1.263a6ca1.34ae56bc@cs.com>

Thanks Jeff!  

People were quite excited about having that option at Road America. It gets 
folks organized quickly in the paddock and the adrenaline pumping. A lot of 
grinning from gear to gear, as Kent Howard would say. We are also planning an 
informal gathering in the paddock, that evening.

Jack, I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this some thought.

Regards,

Joe A



> That is what we have in mind. However, I haven't made the schedule yet so 
> can't make any hard promises. As you know, there will be a lot going on and 
> I've only got so much time to squeeze it into. I've got your back on it though.
>  
> jw
> 

   </HTML>


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 08:25:53 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:25:53 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen    Thursday Sessions.....now Tech Insp.
Message-ID: <d01.20af7492.34ae5881@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/2008 10:18:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
N197TR4 at cs.com writes:

Jack,  I would like to see us arrange for TECH INSPECTION in our paddock area 
by your  Designate.  I think I know a couple of guys who would volunteer for 
this  duty. It's efficient and reduces the glut in the tech barn. Please give 
this  some thought.

Regards,

Joe A


We can do that. We can weed out the "cheaters" right there in front of  
everyone!
 
You said you had a tent. Can we use several stalls for tech and run them  
through tent? That would be better for us than trying to go to everyone's  
trailer.
 
jw



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 09:18:04 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:18:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
In-Reply-To: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:

> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can also
> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever and
> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing I have
> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.  Spend all
> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps, restaurants,
> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the price of
> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)

Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!

> -- BillDentin at aol.com wrote:

rml

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
GIVE them the camera - then SELL 'EM A LOT OF FILM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan  3 09:34:25 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] GPS Products
References: <20080102.194122.23899.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031117060.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <003601c84e26$81132b20$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I have found that it is very difficult to determine beforehand the cost of
upgrading the maps for most of these units.  I think that is intentional
because it becomes a deterrant to anyone buying one of these things.

Joe C.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Lang" <lang at isis.mit.edu>
To: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GPS Products


> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
> > Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It can
also
> > store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or whatever
and
> > usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only thing
I have
> > been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map update.
Spend all
> > that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,
restaurants,
> > points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of the
price of
> > the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!


From dave at microworks.net  Thu Jan  3 12:02:16 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:02:16 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <20080103190658.DEPW2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
aware of another car also wanting to pass.

This video starts on the approach to Turn 9 (uphill hairpin) where I 
checked my mirrors and I let a Porsche Cup Car pass my TR3 by staying 
deeper into the corner to let him stay on the line on exit.

The video them continues down the back straight and into the Oval 
where I am passed by two more Porsche Cup Cars on either side of me!

It is the top video on our TR Club website Gallery

http://www.dctra.org/?page_id=22


From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 12:26:01 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:26:01 EST
Subject: [Fot] Keeping a TR3 Safe from marauding Porsches
Message-ID: <c32.222ff945.34ae90c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/03/2008 1:07:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
dave at microworks.net writes:


> I finally found an old video (probably from 1999) I was looking for 
> and captured about 38 seconds of it it to use in my class this 
> weekend at PIR.  One of the things that we stress to the Students is 
> the importance of maintaining a line so that you are predictable on 
> track.  Don't move over to allow a car by because you may not be 
> aware of another car also wanting to pass.
> 

AMEN to that.  This is a particular issue with new racers.  There is a 
subconscious urge for new racers to 'get out of the way.'  Big mistake.  Critical to 
stay on the traditional line.  If you see a faster car coming, point to where 
you would prefer to be passed, but also stay on the line and be aware you 
might not see everyone who is coming.  

Another thing I like to tell new racers is, while it is important to watch 
your mirrors, it is even more important to be deciding where you should be going 
next.  I recommend quick periodic glances to the mirrors, then back to 'where 
am I going next.  New racers often are preoccupied with their mirrors (which 
can scare them to death), causing them to stray off the line.

Bill Dentinger
  


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


From jfrymark at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 13:23:21 2008
From: jfrymark at aol.com (John Frymark)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:23:21 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3.1199386800.24756.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <92A5491A-53FE-4CCE-B07D-440910051015@aol.com>

It's called "Schick-ing it to 'em".  Getting an aluminum radiator  
from TRF for Christmas. Any special issues mounting an electric fan?

John Frymark

On Jan 3, 2008, at 11:00 AM, fot-request at autox.team.net wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Joe Boruch wrote:
>
>> Bill, I have a Magellan Roadmate 3000 and it has been great.  It  
>> can also
>> store music and photos.  Need a restaurant, auto parts store or  
>> whatever and
>> usually it is in the database along with phone numbers.  The only  
>> thing I have
>> been disappointed in is that Magellan wants $79 for the map  
>> update.  Spend all
>> that money for a better unit and a year later when the maps,  
>> restaurants,
>> points of interest, etc have been updated they want about 1/4 of  
>> the price of
>> the unit for the updates.  Joe(B)
>
> Hmmm - sounds like the Polaroid marketing folks found employment!


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan  3 13:33:17 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>

Richard Good wrote:
> Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
>
> Richard Good
> Good Parts
>
> William G Rosenbach wrote:
>
>   
>> Terry,
>> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
>> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
>> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
>> therebye
>> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
>> arrangement has little to do with this.
>> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as well
>> as further?
>> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
>> difference.
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
overbore the lifter bores.  Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  3 14:22:24 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:22:24 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
Message-ID: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Hi, Everyone

And thanks to you Joe for arranging my re-admission. For those who have been
FOTers for some time and may remember me from years back, my world has changed
quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

In 2004 I re-married and for this august event two Triumphs played an active
part. My (then) 1974 2000 sedan took Liz from our home to the Register Office
for our ceremony and then my fuel injected sedan took us both to the party
afterwards - and then off on our honeymoon.

In 2005, I had a stroke but this wasn't anything to do with events the
previous year!

Since then, I've retired from paid work and now do more unpaid work than I
ever thought possible. The leisure times (some of them) are spent writing
stories with a Standard-Triumph flavour for the largest Triumph Club in the
UK. It has about 10,000 members in the UK and is very active on many different
fronts. When I'm not doing that, Liz and I spend as much time as we can in our
caravan (trailer) which comfortably sleeps four people and we go off at
weekends to somewhere different but never all that far from home. When we're
not living in our larger caravan, I'm working on another smaller one which
later this year will be used by people who can't afford a vacation but want to
get away somewhere. This is part of the charity (non-profit) I've established
that raises money for other charities and is an event organiser in its own
right. We do classic car road runs and fundraising events. Two of note in 2008
are getting blind people to drive a car on a private road and the other is a
one day road run in which more blind people will act as navigators for cars in
which they are passengers. We've done both events before and they not only
raise a lot of money but are great fun as well.

And then, as Joe commented, I'm busy planning the Triumph Trans-AmeriCan
Charity Drive in 2009 that will last about 9000 miles and finish at Triumphest
and coincide with the North American Triumph Challenge at the same venue. I'll
be doing that in a Stag. You'll find details at www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk
and there's a "Keep Informed" facility where you can receive email updates
from me as the planning gets closer and closer to reality.

'S good to be back

Cheers, Jonmac
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: N197TR4 at cs.com
  To: standardtriumph at btinternet.com ; fot at autox.team.net
  Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:17 AM
  Subject: Please Welcome Back John Macartney (AKA JonMac)


  FoT,

  Please welcome John back to the list. John fell off the edge of the world
with a huge  cyberspace/hardrive crash.  Mark B, would you bring John back to
our world?


  John Macartney    standardtriumph at btinternet.com



  John is from the UK and well known in Triumph Circles.  He has also authored
a couple of books. One was considered for production as a movie or for for a
TV series.
  Both have Triumph Content and are factual stories.  He worked for the
Standard Triumph factories, as his father did before him.

  John is also planning a 10,000 Mile Odyssey across NORTH AMERICA IN 2009.
But there is plenty of time for us to dwell on that later......

  Joe Alexander


From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 14:52:38 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>

On our current race motor for the TR6 we bored the lifter holes for ford
lifters...Ted is correct...the lifter bores are not perpendicular to the
block face....What we did is used a CNC machine and wrote a program to do
the job...the blocks are between 1 and 2 thousands from one to another
using the locating tabs on the pan flange surface...aside from calculating
the degree of offset, each hole center was found, and lastly the lifter
directly in front of the cam drive needs to be moved forward about 25 thou
when using the 875 lifters...it is also important to do aprox. a .900 or so
cut initially in the very top of the bore to remove the webbing curve to
give a flat face to start the boring process and get a clean cut and not
destroy your bit...Chip


> [Original Message]
> From: Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>
> To: Richard Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> Date: 1/3/2008 3:58:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> Richard Good wrote:
> > Rocker ratio has everything to do with valve velocity.  Lifter velocity 
> > times rocker ratio equals valve velocity.  Boring the block and 
> > installing .874" Ford lifters instead of .800" stock lifters allows the 
> > cam to be ground for 13.6% more lifter velocity.  Changing from stock 
> > 1.45:1 ratio to 1.65:1 ratio rockers increases the valve velocity 
> > 13.8%.  Do both and you get a 29% increase in valve velocity.
> >
> > Richard Good
> > Good Parts
> >
> > William G Rosenbach wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Terry,
> >> Interesting stuff. But one question. You state:  
> >> Because these engines are so restricted by the valve & seat, then 
> >> the only way to improve them is by having very fast lifting cams and
> >> therebye
> >> having the vale open for the longest possible duration. The rocker
> >> arrangement has little to do with this.
> >> Doesn't the increased rocker ratio cause the valve to move faster as
well
> >> as further?
> >> Or is it just a case of to little a change to make a measurable
> >> difference.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Bill
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >>
> >> Fot mailing list
> >> Fot at autox.team.net
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >>     
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> >
> >
> >   
> Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are 
> on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and 
> overbore the lifter bores.  Ted
>
> -- 
> Ted Schumacher
> tedtsimx at bright.net
> http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
> 108 S. Jefferson St.
> Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
> Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
> Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
> Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM


From dmitchel at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan  3 14:49:07 2008
From: dmitchel at sbcglobal.net (Doug Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FW: Night Before Christmas?
Message-ID: <FCEGIHAKDJFAMCOPHGBEMEOFDOAA.dmitchel@sbcglobal.net>

Just got this today, but thought this group wiuld enjoy it.

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the paddock,
Not a motor was stirring, not even an impact;
The stockings were hung by the pit fence with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;

The drivers were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of championships danced in their heads;
And mamma in her checkered flag, and I in my Bell,
Had just settled down for a long winter's spell,

When out on the grid there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
To the back of the trailer I flew like a shift,
Unlocked the rampdoor, and let down the lift.

The moon on the crest of the new-paved front straight,
Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects so late,
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a formula car, screaming by in top gear.

Such a noise caused the chief steward to immediately arise,
And by the look on his face he had words for this guy,
He shouted aloud in his most gruff voice,
"It's quiet time now, GET OFF OF THE COURSE"!

Then sound control had been stirred from its slumber,
And yelled to the chief steward, "I've never seen such a DB number!"
The chief of tech said, upon seeing this fellow,
"I've never seen that car, and I know it has no annual".

The chief steward demanded to know this driver's intent,
To which registration replied, "Maybe he's a late registrant."
Suddenly timing and scoring appeared from yonder,
And chimed in "That car on course has no transponder."

Though I couldn't see the driver, he went by so quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than Schuey his crew they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;

"Now, JACKMAN! now, TIRE CHANGER! now, CREWCHIEF and FUELMAN!
On, ENGINEER! on FABRICATOR! on, MANAGER and TIREMAN!
Beyond the tech shed! to base of the pit wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

As valves that before the busted cam fly,
When they meet with a piston, mount to the sky,
So to the base of the timing tower the crewman they flew,
With a hauler full of "go fast" bits, and St. Nicholas too.

And then, in a flash, I heard on the grid
The roaring and thunder that each piston did.
As I drew on my pitboard, and was turning about,
into Victory Lane, St. Nicholas had arrived, without doubt.

He was dressed all in Simpson, from his head to his boots,
And his suit was all tarnished with oil and soot;
A bundle of speed parts he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a vendor just opening his pack.

His face shield -- how it twinkled! his helmet decals shone!
His patches were like a mural, his name scripted like a pro!
His neck restraint was the best design we'd seen yet,
And his gloves and his boots were a perfectly matched set;

His tools spoke volumes, he used all that they had,
A mouse, a keyboard, a computer, and CAD;
This just confirmed what we already knew,
More than a great driver, he is a great designer too.

The parcels for the stockings that he brought along,
Dripped of technology that helped engines make song;
A look at the sides of his car showed there had been no rubbing here,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to fear;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to pacing,
And filled all the stockings; with parts for racing,
Then flipping the master power switch, and laying his finger on the starter,
And into first gear, back down pit road, but no farther;

He sprang from his car, to his team gave a holler,
And immediately they loaded the car back in the hauler.
But I heard him exclaim, as they tore out from the line,
"HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND SHIFT IN TURN 9!"


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan  3 14:57:25 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:57:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From sbarr at McCarty-Law.com  Thu Jan  3 15:08:34 2008
From: sbarr at McCarty-Law.com (Barr, Scott)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:08:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Ford lifters
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
References: <380-22008143215238586@earthlink.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801031656520.25292@ankh.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C74957856@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>

And does anyone know where to get lighter Ford lifters?  Those larger
lifters must also be quite a lot heavier.

Scott B.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Robert Lang
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:57 PM
To: U K MOTORSPORTS
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow

Hi,

Okay - I'll bite on this one. What's the source for the .875 lifters?

rml
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From cartravel at pobox.com  Thu Jan  3 15:54:49 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:54:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
References: <18984283.1199329990310.JavaMail.root@web04sl>
Message-ID: <477D67B9.3070500@pobox.com>

A couple years ago I had a stock cam and 5 high performance TR4 cams run 
on a Cam Doctor.  This is a very accurate machine to measure the cam 
lift curve.  Of course, you can measure the curve with a degree wheel 
and dial indicator and you can get pretty good numbers for the lift and 
velocity (first derivative), but you won't have enough accuracy to get 
acceleration.  Here are a few results I observed:
1. the maximum flank acceleration on a stock cam is twice as high as 4 
of the 5 performance cams.
2. the maximum velocity on all but one cam was low enough to allow use 
of small block chevy lifters.
3. the recommended valve lash on 3 of the performance cams was so large 
that first contacted occurred on the flank at high velocity.
Needless to say, this data completely changed my opinions about cams and 
cam grinders/designers.

Someone mentioned using greater acceleration rates with high rocker 
ratios.  You should keep in mind that the valve spring rates and valve 
weight scale with the square of the rocker ratio, i.e 21% greater for 
1.65 vs 1.5.  If everything else is equal, you'd have to tone down the 
acceleration rates on the cam to maintain similar forces on the cam and 
tappet.
Larry Young

roadandtrack at bigpond.com wrote:
> I would be deligthed to ehar form anyone who has such cam data .....
> Terry O'Beirne
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Thu Jan  3 16:48:54 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (roadandtrack at bigpond.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:48:54 +1100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <17253697.1199404134872.JavaMail.root@web04sl>

chip, 
thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???

can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully running with these bigger lifters.

thanks, Terry . 


From trhouse at greenapple.com  Thu Jan  3 17:20:13 2008
From: trhouse at greenapple.com (Tom Householder)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Minneapolis  Fot help needed
In-Reply-To: <037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <C3A2E5ED.31F5%trhouse@greenapple.com>

Anyone out there near Minneapolis
Please contact me off list

Thanks 

tom Householder


From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 19:23:08 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:23:08 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
References: <20080102.090905.888.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
	<477C05BB.2040604@verizon.net> <477D468D.1020802@bright.net>
Message-ID: <20080104022204.23E6C187A4A@autox.team.net>

Is that true for the TR-4 as well as the GT-6?

- Tony

At 02:33 PM 1/3/2008, Ted Schumacher wrote:
>Richard is correct. The caution is boring out the lifter bore.These are
>on a 4.5 degree slant so you can't  run straight into the block and
>overbore the lifter bores.  Ted


From tr6racer21 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  3 19:32:51 2008
From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net (U K MOTORSPORTS)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
Message-ID: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>

If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter installed
in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is inboard
somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info together
on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the first
of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on to
get  this done...Chip 


> [Original Message]
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard
Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>
> chip, 
> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the
non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have never
done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  I
had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses
a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>
> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are sucessfully
running with these bigger lifters.
>
> thanks, Terry . 
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
1/2/2008 11:29 AM


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:11:28 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:11:28 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>

Chip,

This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification 
to my TR6.
The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.

Allen

On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:32 PM, U K MOTORSPORTS wrote:

> If you look at the TR6 block from the front with a stock lifter 
> installed
> in #1 with out the cam installed you will see that the cam bore is 
> inboard
> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it. I will get some info 
> together
> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting with my machinist the 
> first
> of the week and will get some figures on the program that we worked on 
> to
> get  this done...Chip
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
>> To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; 
>> Richard
> Good <goodparts at verizon.net>
>> Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
>>
>> chip,
>> thanks for the info about the lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if 
>> the
> non-verticality is a factory machining error or deliberate. I have 
> never
> done this on TR blocks, so I've never had cause to look that closely.  
> I
> had located some very light 22mm Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford 
> uses
> a nice light solid lifter of 0.875"???
>>
>> can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are 
>> sucessfully
> running with these bigger lifters.
>>
>> thanks, Terry .
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From tony at tonydrews.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
	<d1cc122c4d5900661ac5961b44034df4@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080104032231.8422E187A0B@autox.team.net>

Here's some solid lifters at Comp cams: 
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html
(pictures show hydaulic lifters, though)

- Tony

At 09:11 PM 1/3/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Chip,
>
>This would be greatly appreciated. I'm about to add this modification
>to my TR6.
>The new Ford 40 uses a .875 tappet that would work well.
>
>Allen


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan  3 20:23:36 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:23:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lifters
Message-ID: <d705c69357d050460bc92b71c34d1bef@wi.rr.com>

Oops. That should have read: new Ford GT lifter (as in GT 40).

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Thu Jan  3 22:05:39 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] oversize lifters
Message-ID: <477DBEA3.3070104@cyberspeedway.net>

      The use of oversize (Ford size) lifters is one of the things that 
allowed Chevrolet to catch Ford in NASCAR in the late 80's. After Bill 
Elliot and the Ford camp got competitive in the mid 80's, Chevrolet 
whined until they were allowed bigger lifters. That was the start of the 
  homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have 
no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were 
dimensionally equal to the production piece.
      Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with 
oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.
      The lifter application to ask for is the 427 FE Ford High 
Performance. These are the bucket style and light weight. Another 
application is the 2TC and 3TC Toyota. I bought mine from Norris Cams 10 
years ago for my street TR6. They were cheaper and better than any 
Triumph lifter I have ever seen. Check that the push rod radius matches 
the seat radius in the lifter-almost cost me a lot of money-D'OH. Use 
bluing if your unsure.
Greg Lund


From markjwea at msn.com  Fri Jan  4 05:19:11 2008
From: markjwea at msn.com (MARK J WEATHERS)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:19:11 +0100
Subject: [Fot] roller rockers and head flow
In-Reply-To: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
References: <380-2200815423251782@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BLU130-W23C703C59FF399285485B8C94C0@phx.gbl>

I seem to remember having to move the  centerline of the bore next to the
distributor gear over by .010 for clearance when I put .875 lifters in my TR6,
might want to check this.

Mark Weathers> From: tr6racer21 at earthlink.net> To: roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:32:51 -0500> CC: fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re:
[Fot] roller rockers and head flow> > If you look at the TR6 block from the
front with a stock lifter installed> in #1 with out the cam installed you will
see that the cam bore is inboard> somewhat and the lifter tilts in toward it.
I will get some info together> on the lifter sources and will also be meeting
with my machinist the first> of the week and will get some figures on the
program that we worked on to> get this done...Chip > > > > [Original Message]>
> From: <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>> > To: <tr6racer21 at earthlink.net>> > Cc:
<fot at autox.team.net>; Ted Schumacher <tedtsimx at bright.net>; Richard> Good
<goodparts at verizon.net>> > Date: 1/3/2008 6:48:54 PM> > Subject: Re: [Fot]
roller rockers and head flow> >> > chip, > > thanks for the info about the
lifter bores. Can you or Ted confirm if the> non-verticality is a factory
machining error or deliberate. I have never> done this on TR blocks, so I've
never had cause to look that closely. I> had located some very light 22mm
Toyota ones (o.866"). What model Ford uses> a nice light solid lifter of
0.875"???> >> > can you share with us some data on the sorts of cams you are
sucessfully> running with these bigger lifters.> >> > thanks, Terry . > >> >>
> -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free
Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release
Date:> 1/2/2008 11:29 AM> _______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 06:51:51 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
Message-ID: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a 
specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set 
valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at 
these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the end of 
the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking 
the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the 
rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  4 08:32:50 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg - Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:32:50 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
In-Reply-To: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a  
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.  
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was  
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the  
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash  
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even  
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running . 
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young  
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing  
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as  
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the  
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6


From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan  3 17:10:46 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:10:46 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <003301c84e66$419120c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

.............That was the start of the
>   homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
> no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
> dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>       Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
> oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street cars?

Steve P.


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 09:22:36 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 11:22:36 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 
 
It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
 
Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:33:41 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:33:41 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the initial
valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the seat) so the
sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases will start evacuating
through a large hole rather than a small crack. The cam has a ramp to it, even
if not by design, then by geometry, and letting the lash and slack in the
lifting system take up the ramp allows the cam to get into the meat of it's
opening cycle before the valve begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often on
bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the power and
torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would increase until you
added too much, then it would go down again. It's a small amount so II never
could really separate the effect from the variation inherent in repeated dyno
runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of runs knows what I mean by this) but I
still "knew" it was there, so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam
builder's spec.

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Greg - Lunker
Hilyer
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 7:32 AM
To: Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash

I'm also interested in any input from the list. When installing a
TR-666 Isky I was shocked with the recommended .028" [hot] lash.
Convinced that it was a misprint, I called their tech line and was
assured this was the correct  number. Then at the very end of the
conversation the tech happen to mention "oh yah, all of our lash
specs are +/- .010" in actual use" !!!
I sure wasn't going to experiment with .038" or anywhere near. Even
at .018 the clatter sounded pretty extreme to me. I've been running .
015 with no apparent problems. I mentioned this to our Larry Young
who tried explaining to me how my adjustment was slowing
acceleration. I thought my tighter adjustment would be of benefit as
it would be giving the valve x amount more lift.
I'll look forward to more info.
Greg Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM


On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:51 AM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> As long as we are on this topic, how do you establish valve lash for a
> specific cam/rocker combination? The specs that came with my cam set
> valve lash at .020 intake and .022 exhaust. When I set the lash at
> these specs, there was extreme wear at the rocker tip and at the
> end of
> the valve stem. I then reduced the lash to .015/.016 but after taking
> the motor apart this winter, there was still noticable wear at the
> rocker tip. Any thoughts on this?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From triosan at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 09:48:59 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>

At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products and
also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
"public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are two
different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.  The
super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
[described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive, powerful
deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are neither
flow rates not sound descriptions given.
http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html

To the FOT racing community:
With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
good scavaging and acceptable DB?

On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:

> Vance:
>
> At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing any
> of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment of
> creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these recommended
> mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Michael
> '76 Tahiti blue
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> 6pack at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
> You are subscribed as triosan at gmail.com
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 09:52:08 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:52:08 -0800
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA790@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

IMHO, yes and no. I think we all struggle with making our cars reliable and
reasonably fast. When you put a hot cam in a tractor motor (absolutely in
accordance with vintage spirit) you compromise the lifters. With the limited
selection of good lifters available and the problems everyone is having with
oil, a reasonable choice is to fit something that will last because it's made
of good stuff and is not sized for a tractor's gentle ramps. Vintage racing is
expensive enough without having your cams get toasted on a regular
basis--along with the often spectacular failure that oils the track (to Jack's
dismay).

The question is, are you upgrading your lifters so you can push the outside
edge of cam design (as NASCAR guys did) or are you trying to hold your stuff
together using Cam design knowledge that has been around since the fifties. I
think we'd be kidding ourselves to think we're acting like NASCAR engine
designers--we ain't that motivated (I was going to say SMART but some of you
guys are).

The choice of using a computer to do the boring has nothing to do with vintage
spirit. Any good machinist can do it with a hundred year old bridgeport. It
will just take forever to set it up and cost a fortune. Using a CAM mill to do
it is just a lot easier. The factory did it without CAM.

All this said, I haven't done any of this yet. But if I can't find more
Unobtanium ceramic lifters, I probably will. And I'll be using the same cams I
always do. they just won't break the motor.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of JWoesvra at aol.com
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:22 AM
To: spreiss at verizon.net; fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] steroid use

In a message dated 1/4/2008 11:17:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
spreiss at verizon.net writes:

.............That was the start of the
>    homogenization of Nascar which has resulted in McRace cars which have
>  no appeal to a lot of car guys. Until that time, the race engines were
>  dimensionally equal to the production piece.
>        Also, be aware that more than one SCCA championship was won with
>  oversize lifters which were not caught. They are checked  now.............

I don't get it. Is the level of engine mods permitted  in vintage racing more
aligned with NASCAR than SCCA at this point?
Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and
computerized
boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Steve P.


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
Vintage Community.

It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

Jack Woehrle
SVRA Technical Director



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:05:29 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:05:29 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <bf9.2c2f7015.34afc159@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/04/2008 10:24:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
JWoesvra at aol.com writes:


> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the 
>  
> Vintage Community. 
> 
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".
> 

Jack...

I agree with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.

Hammered Lifter Syndrome!  I suspect, working with Ken Gillanders/BFG, we may 
have been among the first to use those FORD lifters in one of our engines.  I 
think I recall our mechanic, Kevin Potter, also stumbled on the 'freeze em 
first' way to make them fit.  But for sure our decision to use them was because 
we could no longer get good NOS lifters.  The crap we were getting from China 
and India (etc) was worthless.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 10:21:55 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:21:55 EST
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
Message-ID: <cf1.264fef72.34afc533@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:05:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, BillDentin  
writes:


My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of  enforcement in the  
Vintage Community. 

It is also way  beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage   Racing".



Jack...

I agree  with Bill Babcock's comments on this issue.



I do too.
 
Y'all know that I am always for improvements that solve reliability and  
availability issues.
 
That is always a good thing. It just scares me a little when guys take that  
newfound reliability and use it to up the performance, thereby negating the  
reliability gain.
 
Jack Woehrle



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan  4 10:35:28 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
References: <8CA1D03CB4FF259-F5C-DF7@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com>
	<8cbd782d0801040848o1d6cbc36i79a450eef89920a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.  It
is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound limit.  I
believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html and I know
they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little louder.  My
car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my PI
setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out during a
race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410 cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 10:36:11 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 09:36:11 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA78E@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<3D19C37868680F46BA3E66A8945C9C7495791A@svr-exch01.mccarty-law.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA791@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

No science, no assumptions of better power, I just can't stand the noise.


-----Original Message-----
From: Barr, Scott [mailto:sbarr at McCarty-Law.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 8:59 AM
To: Bill Babcock
Subject: RE: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

<<so I always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.>>

Did you mean loose side?  Or is there an assumption, inherent in your
choice, that cam designers set their lash spec looser than it really
needs to be and, therefor, starting on the tight side of their spec gets
you back into the part of the curve where you're getting additional
power?

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+scott.barr=mccarty-law.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Bill Babcock
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:34 AM
To: Greg - Lunker Hilyer; Allen Washatko
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash clearance

It's not a universal feature, but in many cam designs you want the
initial valve acceleration to be extreme (think POP the valve off the
seat) so the sonic pulse down the pipe is crisp and the exhaust gases
will start evacuating through a large hole rather than a small crack.
The cam has a ramp to it, even if not by design, then by geometry, and
letting the lash and slack in the lifting system take up the ramp allows
the cam to get into the meat of it's opening cycle before the valve
begins to open.

I don't have dyno experience on this with car motors, but I saw it often
on bike engines. We'd tighten the lash to pick up some overlap and the
power and torque would both decline a little. Add lash and it would
increase until you added too much, then it would go down again. It's a
small amount so II never could really separate the effect from the
variation inherent in repeated dyno runs (anyone who has pulled a lot of
runs knows what I mean by this) but I still "knew" it was there, so I
always set lash to the tight side of a cam builder's spec.

--


From spyderweb at uwalumni.com  Fri Jan  4 11:15:23 2008
From: spyderweb at uwalumni.com (JRH)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:15:23 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Please Welcome Back John Macartney  (AKA JonMac)
References: <bd1.249f0f6c.34adbbde@cs.com>
	<037201c84e4e$bc830d60$0201a8c0@Bevan>
Message-ID: <01a401c84efd$c6ccc4a0$3bea2a4b@gcllawyers.local>

John Macartney wrote:

> For those who have been FOTers for some time and
> may remember me from years back, my world has changed
> quite a lot since I last submitted periodic comments to the FOT list.

Welcome back John! I'll not soon forget Mr. Macartney's hospitality during 
my visit to the Heritage Motor Centre at Gaydon while I was in Merrie Olde 
to see the Goodwood races in '01.

Congratulations on you marriage, your retirement and your continued 
contribution to all things Triumphant.

Jim Hill
Madison WI


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Fri Jan  4 11:20:25 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 18:20:25 GMT
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
Message-ID: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Fri Jan  4 12:23:34 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:23:34 -0600
Subject: [Fot] lifters
Message-ID: <200801041923.m04JNenU266128@ns3.geneseo.net>

First the good news:

I've been trying to find the best lifter deal and may be making some 
progress. BPNW lists heavy duty lifters in their catalog and on their 
website. They sell them to some of the other domestic suppliers. They 
say that all the lifters are over 54 Rockwell C. Of course, like any 
manufactured product, not every piece is checked. I am purchasing 16 
of these and will have each one of them tested (costs me $5 apiece 
but I need good lifters) and will report the findings to the FOT list 
(with BPNW's approval). BPNW is nice to work with.

Now the bad news:

The leading manufacturer of ceramic lifters, Schubeck, no longer has 
an active phone number, and other websites that discuss these lifters 
say that they are no longer available.

uncle jack 


From gtlund at cyberspeedway.net  Fri Jan  4 12:28:46 2008
From: gtlund at cyberspeedway.net (greg)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:28:46 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers 
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago. 
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current 
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the 
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket 
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1" 
x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have 
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive 
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
> 
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.  The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Fri Jan  4 13:09:23 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:09:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] steroid use
In-Reply-To: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
References: <bc3.1e85e808.34afb74c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801041444120.30851@ankh.mit.edu>

On Fri, 4 Jan 2008 JWoesvra at aol.com wrote:

> Or  is this discussion of lifter substitution (GT40 no less) and  computerized
> boring programs pertinent only to members' street  cars?

Hi -

At the risk of offending and so forth, not everyone on FOT is a 
died-in-the-wool vintage racer. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact.

In fact, some of us are current racers with SCCA and other groups.

But a general point in that regard is that in order to keep the cars 
running some ingenuity is needed. Solving problems like worn out cams is 
one such instance.

> Steve P.
>
>
> My opinion on this is that it is way beyond the scope of enforcement in the
> Vintage Community.
>
> It is also way beyond what I would call "in the Spirit of Vintage  Racing".

I agree 100% with this statement. Which is one reason why I don't run 
vintage right now. My car isn't a real race car from back in the day, and 
owning a "real race car" is pretty much not in my future because of a lot 
of factors.

Interestingly, I run in current SCCA (solo) in a car that (except for the 
current flared fenders and the roll cage) is pretty much a 1972 GCR legal 
car. Yes, I'm not competitive at the national level, but I have a car that 
is way kool and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Well, if someone gave me 
a GT1 car, I might let go - but there would be some wimpering...

But the point of my message is that FOT is actually a pretty diverse group 
with a common interest - TRIUMPHS. How we use our Triumphs is actually one 
aspect of the group where divergence occurs.

As a point of information, had I fully understood the cam follower thing 
when I had my last cam done, I might have done things a bit differently so 
that my $600+ cam job would last more than a couple of seasons. C'est la 
vie!

> Jack Woehrle
> SVRA Technical Director

regards,
rml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 13:24:54 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:24:54 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a set of
the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be a fuzzy
area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except they are
aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.  This
are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I can
adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I have
already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.

Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of suppliers,
but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
dimensions.  Joe(B)

_____________________________________________________________
Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan  4 15:13:42 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:13:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] [FOT] Speaking of GPS
Message-ID: <3880.81718.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just got this in a newsletter today...

* GPS devices: Road tested and reviewed
http://cwflyris.computerworld.com/t/2594280/36312132/93229/2/

Gary Schneider


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan  4 15:32:39 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:32:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] Global Positioning Systems
Message-ID: <cea.25eff8d0.34b00e07@aol.com>

Amici...

In case I missed someone, thanks to all who responded with comments on 
portable global positioning systems.

I believe I am going to purchase a GARMIN-nuvi 350 GPS.

I am just waiting for Shirley to fall asleep so I can get into her purse.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan  4 16:51:37 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 17:51:37 -0600
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
Message-ID: <72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a  
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be  
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except  
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?   
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.   
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part  
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if  
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.   
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum  
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to  
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on  
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of  
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how  
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy  
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/ 
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Fri Jan  4 17:51:54 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, you might try Richard Good (610 777-4457). He uses 300ZX diffs with some
of his hub/axle setups. He may have a source(s) for the calipers or info on
where to get them.
Good luck,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Boruch" <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers


> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?  I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if I
can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.  I
have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper
from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get
SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how close
they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy some.
The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM5
3
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  4 20:34:32 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Alloy sump for Herald/Spit on eBay
Message-ID: <BLU127-W12E3A057B42E41DA5F2A898C4D0@phx.gbl>

Item 150200754411.  Its in the UK.

Usual disclaimers here.

Shane Ingate, picking up my contribution to global warming (6.6L Duramax)
tomorrow, in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From BillB at bnj.com  Fri Jan  4 22:52:30 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 21:52:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA794@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>
	<72c2daed6234507a6c764da86a1c0534@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA797@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Not Girling style, they are AP, a little bigger than girlings I think, but not
much. I've been able to get performance friction, ferodo, and several other
pads for them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Allen Washatko [mailto:awashatko at wi.rr.com]
Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 3:51 PM
To: Bill Babcock
Cc: Friends of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

Bill,

What size are the pads? Close to original?

Allen

On Jan 4, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> I suggest you look into the AP calipers being reproduced now. I have a
> set of
> the original aluminum calipers on Peyote and they work great. Might be
> a fuzzy
> area but I doubt it--they are basically identical to girlings except
> they are
> aluminum. Not sure where they come from, but I know they are available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Joe Boruch
> Sent: Fri 1/4/2008 10:20 AM
> To: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
>
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am
> looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990) 300ZX.
> This
> are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.  They are part
> #'s
> 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am looking to see if
> I can
> adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get the SCCA to allow them.
> I have
> already gotten a verbal approval that SCCA will allow an aluminum
> caliper
> from
> a production vehicle.  We (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to
> get
> SCCA
> to allow any caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on
> that,
> insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers,
> but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and see how
> close
> they
> are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to fit then I can buy
> some.
> The
> 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit that I have found by researching
> dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/
> Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn273SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:19:10 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:19:10 -0000
Subject: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers
In-Reply-To: <019901c84ef8$33b56140$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A71@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Hi Charley
If you wont an original one we have stock
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Charly Mitchel
Sent: 04 January 2008 17:35
To: Chuck Arnold; samuelsma at aol.com
Cc: 6pack at autox.team.net; vance.navarrette at intel.com; Friends
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers

Chuck, on my TR6 I use a Flowmaster muffler and I've been happy with it.
It is quiet and IO have always been a couple of db's below the sound
limit.  I believe it is a http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/30_race.html
and I know they make a smaller single chamber if you want to be a little
louder.  My car is quiet compared to most other racers.
On another note, not exhaust, I need to locate an air bleed valve for my
PI setup.  What did you use or where did you find one?  Mine fell out
during a race last year and I'm looking for a way to improve it a
little.
Thanks,
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Arnold" <triosan at gmail.com>
To: <samuelsma at aol.com>
Cc: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>; <vance.navarrette at intel.com>;
<6pack at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] [6pack] TR6 mufflers


> At the Dynomax web site they compare the flow of some of there
products
and
> also have a "sound" demo [at the Tully's I was sitting at and on the
> "public" speaker of my PC I could not tell much difference].  There
are
two
> different models that fit our cars.  The Super Turbo and the
Ultraflow.
The
> super turbo is a three pass unrestricted flow muffler that passes 410
cfm
> [described as "mellow true performance sound]; the Superflow is a
straight
> through [louder I am sure] design that passes 1000cfm ["aggressive,
powerful
> deep sound"].  Then there are the race mufflers for which there are
neither
> flow rates not sound descriptions given.
> http://www.dynomax.com/products/superturbo.html
>
> To the FOT racing community:
> With efficient headers, what muffler[s] do you recommend/use that
provide
> good scavaging and acceptable DB?
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 8:12 AM, <samuelsma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Vance:
> >
> > At what RPM range does the restriction of the stock muffler become
> > noticeable?? Also, do you have any personal experience actually
hearing
any
> > of the 3 recommended mufflers?? I?would like to avoid the
disappointment
of
> > creating a custom exhaust and then realizing that one of these
recommended
> > mufflers is as loud as the Monza system I had on a previous TR6.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Michael
> > '76 Tahiti blue
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Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Sat Jan  5 03:42:33 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:42:33 -0000
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
In-Reply-To: <477E88EE.2020705@cyberspeedway.net>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A73@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Should aftermarket calipers be allowed in the future, we have developed
serious kits in conjunction with Hi Spec.
Have a look at RTR4461PK as an example
http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4461PK

This kit has plain 280mm (11" in old money) discs (rotors) which we can
supply hardened for FIA applications where solid discs must be used.

Then we have RTR4458K which could be made 280mm if required

http://www.revingtontr.com/shop/mainframe.asp?http://www.revingtontr.com
/shop/product_display.asp?a=2&mscssid=KSUJT99M9RS92NRV00JP4Q4021E97X00&S
iteLanguage=ENG&ProductID=RTR4458K

This is the same kit as RTR4461PK but with  vented discs. These kits use
Billet 4 calipers which are good for road, track day, sprint, mild race.
For long race, endureo etc, the R114/4 caliper is best, as used on our
TR7 kits RTR4481K and RTR4482K which use a vented disc

This kit can easily be morphed into TR2-6

We also do a Herald, spitfire, GT6 kit but don't advertise it!

I hope this helps

Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
greg
Sent: 04 January 2008 19:29
To: Joe Boruch; FOT LIST
Subject: Re: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers

   I have talked with Jeremy Thoennes about using aftermarket calipers
on Prod cars. He semed willing to entertain it a couple of years ago.
Production based calipers are usually MORE expensive than current
Dynalite, Willwood etc. Also it is much easier to get good pads for the
aftermarket calipers. The approach needs to be to allow aftermarket
calipers for all Prod cars. Limited to 4 piston aluminum calipers and 1"

x 11" vented ferrous rotors. The production vehicle calipers don't have
high temp seals etc, etc. Years ago, racing calipers were very expensive
but with modern CNC they are a bargain today.
Greg

Joe Boruch wrote:
> Anybody on the list have any contacts in the Nissan 300ZX community?
> I am looking for 1 or 2 Aluminum calipers for a 1990 (up to 7/1990)
> 300ZX.  This are for a 26mm rotor and were used on non-turbo cars.
> They are part #'s 41001-30P00 and 41011-30P00 (right and left).  I am
> looking to see if I can adapt these to fit my TR3 and then if so, get
> the SCCA to allow them.  I have already gotten a verbal approval that
> SCCA will allow an aluminum caliper from a production vehicle.  We
> (including Sam Halkias) have been trying to get SCCA to allow any
> caliper (Wilwood), but for years they have not budged on that,
insisting that production car calipers only be used up front.
>
> Yes, these are available rebuilt on the internet from a number of
> suppliers, but I don't want to spend the big $ on them just to try and

> see how close they are to fitting.  Once I know they can be made to
> fit then I can buy some.  The 300ZX ones seem to be the closest fit
> that I have found by researching dimensions.  Joe(B)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your fix. Click here for reliable handyman services!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijn3cIUJTuqLxXYn27
> 3SUUM53
> kQgL3ruY4ihIQ69zfnY6sMLQ/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
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From srcypher at mac.com  Sat Jan  5 05:28:06 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:28:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cheap(er)Triumph TR6 Parts Alert
In-Reply-To: <03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <E067BA5D-C2FA-4437-9DF7-FF28F083EED6@mac.com>

Found these on Craigs list in the PA area, if any of you are interested

tr6 motor and 4spd trans: $200
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/529050179.html

1969 car with spares for restoration $1500
http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/car/526347387.html


From tlizzard at msn.com  Sat Jan  5 08:22:44 2008
From: tlizzard at msn.com (Terry Stetler)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 10:22:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 300ZX Calipers
References: <20080104.132025.5450.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
	<03b401c84f35$2b331c50$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>
Message-ID: <BAY116-DAV9355E929C2D7456EA29A3C34D0@phx.gbl>

I do believe that there is a Toyota 4 pot caliper as used on the 4WD small
pickups that is a direct bolt on for the early TR serices cars.
I know I've seen some cars with that caliper installed.

I'd like info on that setup myself for my street car.

Terry Stetler


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sat Jan  5 10:42:47 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:42:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration
In-Reply-To: <477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>

Oops, too long the first time.
> Ok, this is probably more about this subject than you really want to know.
>
> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.  You can measure the 
> lift curve with a degree wheel and dial indicator.  It just won't be 
> this accurate. The velocity is the slope of the lift curve, which 
> could be calculated in a spreadsheet. The acceleration is the slope of 
> the velocity or the curvature of the lift curve.
>
> You will notice there is a constant velocity ramp at the opening and 
> closing ends of the lift curve.  The purpose of the ramp is to avoid 
> smacking the cam too hard.  You want the valve to start opening at the 
> point I have indicated.  If you want to know what valve clearance to 
> use and you do not have a cam card (or maybe even if you do) you have 
> to consider both the rocker ratio and the flexibility of the linkage.  
> Once the cam contacts the lifter, there will be 0.002 to 0.004 in of 
> cam lift taken up by compression of the linkage (pushrod, etc.) before 
> the valve starts to open.  If you look at the graph, the point I've 
> indicated for valve opening occurs at about 0.010 cam lift.  Using 
> 0.003 for compression, the valve clearance should be set at (0.010 - 
> 0.003)*1.5 = 0.0105.  You would not want to use less valve clearance, 
> because the valve would be just cracked open for several degrees.  The 
> cam designer can make the ramp end at any lift, but I don't know why 
> you would ever design a cam for more than 0.015 valve clearance. 
>
> As Bill and others have mentioned.  Once the valve starts to open, you 
> want to open it as quickly as possible.  Upward curvature of the lift 
> curve is acceleration.  Unfortunately, high acceleration means high 
> force (remember mass times acceleration).   High acceleration also 
> triggers high amplitude vibrations in the valve train, which can lead 
> to valve float, etc.  The graph shows a maximum acceleration of about 
> 0.0006 in/deg/deg which is typical for a high performance pushrod 
> engine with solid lifters.  The increased stiffness of an OHC permits 
> cams with about twice as much acceleration, i.e. much quicker 
> opening.  This is the biggest advantage of an OHC.  Stiffness is more 
> important than weight.
>
> As I mentioned in my previous post, 3 cams specified a valve clearance 
> which caused opening on the flank, and the TR-666 was one them.  It's 
> ramp ends at about 0.01 lift also.  At a valve clearance of 0.028 you 
> are up on the flank at high velocity.  My conclusion from all this is 
> that most of these cams were never designed for use in a Triumph.  
> They are probably recycled from some other application. 
> Larry


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan  5 12:04:42 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 13:04:42 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
Message-ID: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of  
a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside 
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt 
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From jrherrera90 at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  5 12:22:57 2008
From: jrherrera90 at hotmail.com (John Herrera)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:22:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
References: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY109-W24F9F2850B1436B3557549A54D0@phx.gbl>

> FoT,> > Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width
of > a TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside >
face of the the rotor surface)?

Not less than 1.475" as per Service Information Bulletin Sports/16/R, May
1958.

John H.


From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan  5 14:32:17 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:17 -0600
Subject: [Fot] AE Cam chains - TR-3/4
Message-ID: <20080105213124.9283F1879D7@autox.team.net>

British Parts Northwest shows AE cam chain for the TR-3/4 on their 
website.  There was some discussion earlier about where to get them...

- Tony


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sat Jan  5 15:56:58 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:56:58 +1100
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
design at the time.

Steve P.


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 08:19:32 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>

I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter 
size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006 
in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of 
the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for 
chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get 
the maximum performance.

Larry Young wrote:
>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam - 
>> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.


From BillDentin at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:34:02 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time, 
spreiss at verizon.net writes:


> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" 
> for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
> 
> 

Steve...

I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production 
based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.  
I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the 
'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I remember early 
ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats, 
AND disc brakes.

Bill Dentinger



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 08:45:01 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:45:01 -0700
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV578AC8E59A86C8D504419B74E0@phx.gbl>

(Found while Googling) The Citrokn DS of 1955, with powered inboard front disc
brakes, and the 1956 Triumph TR3 were the first European production cars to
feature modern disc brakes.
      Kevin

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: BillDentin at aol.com<mailto:BillDentin at aol.com>
  To: spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net>
  Cc: fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 8:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


  In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
  spreiss at verizon.net<mailto:spreiss at verizon.net> writes:


  > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car
in
  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can
anyone
  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"
  > for
  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern
automotive
  > design at the time.
  >
  >

  Steve...

  I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production
  based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs'
cars.
  I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
  'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I
remember early
  ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,
  AND disc brakes.

  Bill Dentinger



  **************
  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

  http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489<http:
//body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/fot>


From fubog1 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 08:48:21 2008
From: fubog1 at aol.com (fubog1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 10:48:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
In-Reply-To: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CA1E92B2FF0C36-1350-5632@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com>

here's a link to wikipedia, it's a good summary


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake


BTW they were originally advertised as "spot" brakes (aircraft term).


Glen










-----Original Message-----

From: BillDentin at aol.com

To: spreiss at verizon.net

Cc: fot at autox.team.net

Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:34 am

Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design





In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,   spreiss at verizon.net writes:      > I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in  > the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone  > provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard"   > for  > them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive  > design at the time.  >   >     Steve...    I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other production   based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' cars.    I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the   'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I   remember early   ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket seats,   AND disc brakes.    Bill Dentinger        **************  Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.         http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489  _______________________________________________  http://www.team.net/donate.html    Fot mailing list  Fot at autox.team.net  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot  


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan  6 10:58:53 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <bef.1dccb3bf.34b24eea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001401c8508d$ccd74550$d214c548@RW>

The Crosley Supersports had spot disc brakes in about 1952. I had one and 
traded it in on my first MG.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BillDentin at aol.com>
To: <spreiss at verizon.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] automotive design


> In a message dated 01/06/2008 9:00:19 AM Central Standard Time,
> spreiss at verizon.net writes:
>
>
>> I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car 
>> in
>> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can 
>> anyone
>> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so 
>> "un-Standard"
>> for
>> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern 
>> automotive
>> design at the time.
>>
>>
>
> Steve...
>
> I'm no expert, but that would really surprise me.  I think other 
> production
> based cars had them previously.  They were 'upstairs' not 'down stairs' 
> cars.
> I think the TR3 may have been the first (or among the first) of the
> 'economically priced' (read cheap) sports cars to feature them.  Seems I 
> remember early
> ads touting the fact that they were $2,500 and had dual carbs, bucket 
> seats,
> AND disc brakes.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:21:14 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:21:14 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>

I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.

My understanding of the cam / lifter geometry is that if the lobe is 
designed to never run off the edge of the lifter, then that's the 
condition that will always exist, whether or not we float the valves. 
Is this correct?I guess my question would be -- with the cam we're 
using, what is the diameter needed to avoid running off the edge -- 
which gets at how close to the edge of the lifter will the lifter 
contact the cam, under any circumstance?

I had my head work done several months ago and forgot to mention to 
you guys a problem that I had. It may not have anything at all to do 
with this discussion, or it may. All my valve stems were peened over 
a little bit on the ends. The machine shop expert's first opinion was 
that I had floated the valves a lot. When I told him that I kept the 
revs to levels that I wouldn't expect that (6000), we theorized that 
because of the diameter of the stud holes in the rocker stands, 
perhaps the centerline of the shaft had moved back far enough to let 
the rocker tips run off the edge of the stems.

That puzzled me too, because there was evidence of something fishy 
going on all the way across the ends of the stems. I purchased new valves.

Later when he was starting assembly he determined that the springs 
had lost some of their tension so we put new valve springs in. I 
don't know how old the springs were. Our conclusion ended up being 
that the weaker springs had allowed valve float.

I have them set the seat pressure between 90 and 100 on all these 
heads. That's really quite conservative compared with what the V8's run.

We also decided that the radius on the valve tips looked too shallow 
(too large a radius), so he refaced that tips to have a sharper 
radius to reduce the possibility of them running off the edge.

I'm also considering replacing my old rocker stands with new ones. 
The new ones are much nicer. I've had the old ones milled and shimmed 
numerous times over the years - they are ten years old.

I have a hard time thinking that any of this is related to camshaft 
design, since as I understand it, the acceleration and velocity we're 
using is not significantly higher than used on the stock camshaft -- 
do I understand this correctly?

Anyway, all this may or may not have some relation to what we're 
seeing in the valve train..

At 09:19 AM 1/6/2008, Larry Young wrote:
>I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and lifter
>size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity is 0.006
>in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get the radius of
>the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add a safety factor for
>chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use the entire lifter to get
>the maximum performance.
>
>Larry Young wrote:
> >> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4 cam -
> >> http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 11:47:03 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:47:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Sun Jan  6 11:58:59 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: KEVIN LYNCH
  To: FOT
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
  Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Good morning group ..

  RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
  companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
  I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
  thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
  service provider.

  Kev Lynch
  _______________________________________________
  http://www.team.net/donate.html

  Fot mailing list
  Fot at autox.team.net
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sun Jan  6 12:16:49 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
	<005f01c85096$32806190$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV107583B587C4DF7E0D9428B74E0@phx.gbl>

Jeff, who are they using?  Thanks for the reply.

Kev
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeff Snook<mailto:jsnook at wcnet.org>
  To: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ; FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] On-line race registration


  Kevin, I just registered on-line for an SVRA event.  I know they have been
doing it for a year or so.  It is pretty slick, saved my car and personal
information once I entered it.  Able to pull it up for the next time.

  Jeff Snook
  http://www.snooksdreamcars.com<http://www.snooksdreamcars.com/>
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: KEVIN LYNCH<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com>
    To: FOT<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
    Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 1:47 PM
    Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration


    Good morning group ..

    RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
    companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability
etc..
    I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
    thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with
their
    service provider.

    Kev Lynch
    _______________________________________________
    http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

    Fot mailing list
    Fot at autox.team.net<mailto:Fot at autox.team.net>
    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/fot>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sun Jan  6 11:48:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] message on cams, etc
Message-ID: <200801061917.m06JGxdI301509@ns3.geneseo.net>

If you received a message from me about lifters and cam stuff, and 
the message was totally incomprehensible, it's because of a side 
discussion I was having with Larry and I accidentally sent it to the 
whole list. Sorry.

At least that's my story and I'm stickin to it.

uncle jack 


From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 12:40:07 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:40:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
References: <BLU126-DAV102BFE9919CF1BF6F034A8B74E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA79D@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

My company is getting ready to release an on line self-serve registration
system, something we've done for our clients for many years. It will be very
inexpensive and very high quality. I know that sounds odd, but you are not the
target, we're aiming at companies that usually do this for themselves, but who
would use an external tool if it had superior architecture, function,
reporting, hosting and was very easy to use. Not sure when it's going to be
available (I'm not involved in the day-to-day biz anymore) but I'll let you
know as soon as I do--should be pretty soon, if the clients would just stop
demanding so much of the company's time. Oh, wait, that would be bad.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 10:47 AM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From garygret at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  6 12:45:40 2008
From: garygret at sbcglobal.net (Gary Schneider)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 11:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration
Message-ID: <426553.20017.qm@web81504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Midwestern Council has been using MyAutoEvents.com for all our W-W races, autocrosses and HPDEs the past few years. MAE was put together by an SCCA racer maybe 6 or 8 years ago so it's pretty polished and stable. It keeps a database so once you enter your info you can enter any subsequent events with a few clicks. The registrars get information they can actually read compared to illegible faxes and mail-ins. We kept our entry form template as close as possible to SCCA's so crossover guests can easily enter too. You get a few variable fields you can use for your own purposes. Because each race is a different club and registrar I was a bit concerned going in about the modest level of computer literacy required. But it was a non-issue, everyone just picked it up and ran with it.

MAE has provision for reserving car numbers but we don't use that due to the complications of several classes running in the same race group.

Last year they started charging $35 per event for the service if you don't run the payments through them, which in a $30K-60K weekend is infinitesimal. (MC doesn't require prepayment so nearly everyone pays at the track.)

Do remember there are a lot of people without broadband, extensive PC savvy, or without a PC at all. There will still be a need for paper entry forms and mail-ins, but at a guess we get about 2/3 on line these days.

I wrote an MAE user's brief for the MC registrars and participants, available at http://www.mcscc.org/files.htm. Click on "MyAutoEvents Support Files."

Regards,
Gary Schneider
Madison WI


----- Original Message ----
From: KEVIN LYNCH <klynch_6 at msn.com>
To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 6, 2008 12:47:03 PM
Subject: [Fot] On-line race registration

Good morning group ..

RMVR is contemplating the subject of on-line registering & which
companies/services to go with regards to Price, Function, Reliability etc..
I know this subject is a bit obscure to some or most but if anyone has a
thought or two, I'm all ears. We are aware of CVAR's experience with their
service provider.

Kev Lynch
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From KENMUN at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 13:17:02 2008
From: KENMUN at aol.com (KENMUN at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 15:17:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] tr3/4 competition cam
Message-ID: <bb8.1c0d8b87.34b2913e@aol.com>

fot, anyone have a good used tr "f" or isky 777 cam they would like to sell? 
thanks, ken m. tr3 vintage racer



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  6 14:42:36 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 21:42:36 -0000
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
References: <001801c84fee$471e54c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <083201c850ad$0e26d790$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Steve,
As others have commented, the TR wasn't the first car ever to have front disc brakes, though it was 
certainly the first British sports car in the more budget price sector to have them. In that regard, 
it was a bit of one-upmanship against the likes of Austin Healey, MG and Sunbeam Talbot.

I'm surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the extensive records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with drum brakes on the European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? Although it wasn't a 
TR, my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes (through fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't being driven nearly as fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was a good alternative to an effective laxative!

Don't construe this response to indicate that drum brakes per se are ineffective. Rolls Royce and 
Bentley used excellent four shoe front drum brakes for years and I think up to the end of the 
1960's. An uncle had a RR Phantom which I drove on occasions. I recall that stopping about three 
tons of the best English drawing-room from around 80mph in a somewhat urgent situation was both 
impressive and very effective.

Cheers, Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 10:56 PM
Subject: [Fot] automotive design


>I am of the understanding that the 1957 TR3 was the first production car in
> the world to come with front disc brakes as standard equipment. Can anyone
> provide the story of how this coup came to pass? It seems so "un-Standard" for
> them to have been ahead of the curve in the application of modern automotive
> design at the time.
>
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 01:22:53 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:22:53 +1100
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
Message-ID: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much better.

S. Preiss


From Herald948 at aol.com  Sun Jan  6 17:42:31 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:42:31 EST
Subject: [Fot] automotive design
Message-ID: <d20.1dc7b042.34b2cf77@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/6/2008 4:42:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
standardtriumph at btinternet.com writes:

I'm  surmising here - and I'm sure Paul Richardson would confirm from the 
extensive  records he has 
from his late father, Ken - that TR3 heavy braking with  drum brakes on the 
European Alpine rallies 
of the early 1950's led to  serious brake fade and possible boiling of fluid? 
Although it wasn't a 
TR,  my own bug-eye Sprite had terrifyingly inadequate front drum brakes 
(through  fade) when used on 
those same roads. Needless to say, the Sprite wasn't  being driven nearly as 
fast as a TR but the 
lack of effective braking was  a good alternative to an effective laxative!


==AM==
Wonderfully phrased as always, John! :-)
 
I don't have any of my Triumph books handy at the moment, but I do recall  
accounts of various disc brake setups (Dunlop and Lockheed, as well as Girling)  
being tried out on the Le Mans cars, circa 1955.
 
And yes, Triumph definitely was NOT the first to use disc brakes; to be  
painfully correct, I think TR3s were the first volume, series-production  British 
car to use them, and possibly the first volume, series-production car in  the 
world to introduce and stay with front disc brakes. (I recall reading  
somewhere that there were experimental front brakes on some Chrysler Imperials  or 
some such car around 1951, but that very, very few cars were so  equipped, 
possibly due to problems with the brakes.)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From cartravel at pobox.com  Sun Jan  6 18:54:43 2008
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:54:43 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<200801061821.m06ILNj1269722@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<47817EFF.9090801@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <47818663.4090406@pobox.com>

> Yeah, I know, you don't have to tell me.  I've tried teaching several 
> times during my life and failed miserably every time.
>
> Actually,  if you think of the cam as a lever attached to a shaft 
> (draw yourself a picture), the longer the lever or further out the 
> contact point, the faster the lifter will rise for each degree of 
> rotation.  The only difference between this and a real cam is that the 
> length of the lever is continuously changing as the cam rotates.
>
> With regard to the rest of your comments/suggestions - I don't know.  
> There are so many variables and so many ways we can go wrong in this 
> stuff.  That's why we love it, isn't it?
> Wouldn't it me fun to put one of our valve trains on a Spintron 
> machine - http://www.spintron.com/?  Does anyone have access to one of 
> these?
Jack W. Drews wrote:
>> I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying. It 
>> must have been taught in one of those math courses I flunked.


From BillB at bnj.com  Sun Jan  6 20:46:17 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 19:46:17 -0800
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.
References: <008801c8503d$55978680$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A0@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

I've raced at events with Tivvy several times, very nice guy and an excellent
driver. Actually I think the only time I was actually on track with him was
the event prior to the Pittsburg VGP--ReaverRun. I Started from the back in
the big bore group (had to switch classes because of an event conflict) and
managed to pass my way up to about 4th or 5th as I recall. Tivvy was one of
the cars I passed. I know he was kind of shocked, but Peyote always does
that--it's a lot better car than it looks to be.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 12:22 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] brakes, etc.

 ...At a sharp right hand turn in lap 3, late braking took Tivvy deep to the
outside of turn 9 allowing me room to sneak past on the inside. Now in the
lead, I was determined to break Tivvy?s streak of 5 five consecutive wins. I
held him off for four laps until a 356 Porsche we were lapping, ran up and
over a hay bale situated in a storm drain, and jumped three feet in the air
directly in front of me! I hit the brakes, not knowing where the Porsche
would
end up. Tivvy hit the gas and shot past both of us into the lead. More slow
traffic allowed him to build a three second lead, and he took the checkered
flag on the next lap, for his 6th consecutive win in this event!

This excerpt is from an account by an XKE driver competing against the 1955
XK140 of Tivvy Shenton, a notoriously fast and consistent winner in a car
sporting the front drum brakes it was born with. His success as I perceive it
(I never actually spoke with him, but became thoroughly engrossed studying
his
progress on the track) involves the building of a bulletproof engine making
plenty of power ( I heard that he was a Rolls engine builder before
emigrating
to the states), a driving style based on mastery of many different lines,
stealthlike passing skills and the natural inclination to apply pressure to
the pedal located to the far right as opposed to the one located in the
middle. If anyone else has had the pleasure of watching, or the frustration
of
chasing him, I think they would agree. Vintage racing doesn't get much
better.

S. Preiss
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From neil at revingtontr.com  Mon Jan  7 02:02:32 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:02:32 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor
In-Reply-To: <f68d1425ae27f57b6950b83084ad2750@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153A8D@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

Allen
Its all the same as TR6 but slightly larger diameter.
Cheers



Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Allen Washatko
Sent: 05 January 2008 19:05
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Brake Rotor

FoT,

Can any of you TR3 owners out there tell me what the overall width of a
TR3 brake rotor is (measured from the "top of the hat" to the inside
face of the the rotor surface)? Also, what is the bolt to bolt
dimension?


Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From gkbyrne at optushome.com.au  Mon Jan  7 04:02:32 2008
From: gkbyrne at optushome.com.au (Geoff Byrne)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:02:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cam Followers
Message-ID: <7A4C980A5E674BFFB1141797CEEFBB32@GEOFFPC>

 FOT
Anyone have experience with the mushroom type followers. This would seem to be
the answer to bigger follower without the need to bore the block

Geoff Byrne
TR6 racer down under


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Mon Jan  7 09:19:15 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:19:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
Simon.


From vanlake at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan  7 12:52:58 2008
From: vanlake at bellsouth.net (vanlake at bellsouth.net)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:52:58 +0000
Subject: [Fot] LIFTER BORE TILT
Message-ID: <010720081952.22802.47828319000CB8740000591222216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF0A050E04020E90@att.net>

As discussed earlier, the Triumph (TR6) lifter bores are in fact tilted. with this known, how does a Cam builder compensate for this, or do they in fact? Is there an accepted error in our lifter to lobe angle from cylinder to cylinder? 

 Has anyone experimented with drilling or using a laser to punch a small hole in the face of the lifter to better lube the cam. Also, if  anyone is interested in purchasing the Ford GT (40) lifters, I have two sets for sale. Mark 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan  6 20:49:32 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:49:32 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
Message-ID: <004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillB at bnj.com  Mon Jan  7 13:03:38 2008
From: BillB at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:03:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
References: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0@SIMON>
	<004001c850e0$5099c410$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <A567005023D9E14089115E231BE7B7E601DDA7A7@exchange01.internal.bnj.net>

Yes and no. I innovated my TR3 right out of vintage racing.


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+billb=bnj.com at autox.team.net on behalf of Steven Preiss
Sent: Sun 1/6/2008 7:49 PM
To: Simon Rasmussen
Cc: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Disc brakes.

I gratefully stand corrected. Had no idea of three of these.
Hope I haven't given the impression that I am a nay sayer to innovation,
though I suspect I have to some. I'm actually a tinkerer myself, and enjoy
nothing more than to solve a problem with creativity and a minimum of
expenditure. Perhaps vintage is actually an arena where this mindset is best
served, being that there is no purse and little recognition at stake.
Steve P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:19 AM
Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.


> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long
before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension
on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan  7 15:08:36 2008
From: lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 15:08:36 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com>
	<FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net>
	<477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com> <477FC197.40005@pobox.com>
	<4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>

Many thanks for all the info Larry. Great stuff and obviously lots of  
work. I think it's beginning to sink into my [thick] head.
All the best to you and yours for the new year. Say hi to Tom for me.
Greg "Lunker " Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Larry Young wrote:

> I should have mentioned the relationship between velocity and  
> lifter size. You'll notice from the graph that the maximum velocity  
> is 0.006 in/deg.  Multiply this number by 360/Pi and you will get  
> the radius of the lifter needed. 0.688 in this case.  You need add  
> a safety factor for chamfer, slop, etc.  A good design should use  
> the entire lifter to get the maximum performance.
>
> Larry Young wrote:
>>> Here is a graph constructed from Cam Doctor data on a stock TR4  
>>> cam - http://home.swbell.net/cartrip/TR_StockB.gif.


From jerryvv at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan  7 20:30:50 2008
From: jerryvv at roadrunner.com (Jerry Van Vlack)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fw: [TR] Old racing photos
Message-ID: <005f01c851a6$ddbd70a0$6501a8c0@userb38463fba5>

I thought many of you would enjoy these photos too. They came from John Wise 
who is on the Triumph list only.

Jerry Van Vlack




> An old colleague of mine who actually photographed the old Northern
> California sports car races for R&T sent me this link to some pictures
> from 1953.  Just thought some of you might be interested!
>
> http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/GH000Homepage.html
>
> John A. Wise
> Glendale, AZ


From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Mon Jan  7 21:55:35 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:55:35 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
Message-ID: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/7/2008 10:59:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
> Subject: [Fot] Disc brakes.
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <006901c85149$0c0907c0$3464a8c0 at SIMON>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the Stag.
> Simon.

The targa top, before Porsche.

Leon
   </HTML>


From herald948 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 08:03:56 2008
From: herald948 at aol.com (herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection 
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear 
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald), 
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the 
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on 
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and 
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of 
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some 
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, 
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph 
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Tue Jan  8 08:16:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:16:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16
In-Reply-To: <8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
References: <d21.1ce1d23b.34b45c47@wmconnect.com>
	<8CA201ED338CB17-6F0-3195@webmail-me17.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820BFD1730@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

Maybe it's because I drove my TR6 to work today in the rain, but I am
reminded of a couple of unintentional innovations such as randomnly
intermittant wipers and self bleeding clutch slave cylinders.


Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+rkramer=rdoequipment.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of herald948 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:04 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Fot Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16

> From: "Simon Rasmussen" <simon at telephonestogo.ca>
>
> Quite a history of innovation at Standard/Triumph, fuel injection
long before
> it became common (though after the Corvette), independent rear
suspension on
> an entire line of cars including the economy model (Herald),
flow-through
> ventilation before Ford's Cortina, and experiments with 4WD on the
Stag.
> Simon.

From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com

The targa top, before Porsche.

==AM==
And let's not forget the "Impacto-Scopic" steering column introduced on
the Herald and then incorporated into the TR4-6, Spitfire, GT6 and
Vitesse lines as well, said column allowing several inches worth of
adjustment in and out...AND, depending on where it was adjusted, some
measure of collapsibility on impact.

--Andy  Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph Herald engine with  wings.
 -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus  (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph
Herald Database at its new URL: <http://triumph-herald.us>
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com _______________________________________________
http://www.team.net/donate.html

Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tarch at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan  8 08:44:03 2008
From: tarch at bellsouth.net (Richard Taylor)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Roller Rockers/Valve Lash/Acceleration/Velocity/Lifter
 Size
In-Reply-To: <9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
References: <490d6b78ecb668193662b1189cda0a5b@wi.rr.com><FA2C11E2-5D63-4070-8F81-138430888827@earthlink.net><477FBF8B.4040705@pobox.com>
	<477FC197.40005@pobox.com><4780F184.9020401@pobox.com>
	<9BE75D6F-40B0-40AD-8227-58604F2A2022@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001801c8520d$4c4434d0$7201a8c0@richardiipc>

Group,

As an outsider in this groovy thread of cams, curves, velocity and
acceleration of lifters and valves and such, I'm left with some chance
thoughts.

The first is to thank you for taking the time to explain to many of us the
kind of thinking that goes into this component of an engine. It reminds me,
a little, of taking calculus in college. Like many, I bumbled through. But
once out of school it all went immediately into the lost-art department. The
important left-overs in both this thread of cam design and the old calculus
courses is the knowledge that there is a wonderfully tight and bright system
of comprehension that someone much more dedicated than most of us engages
in. 

And just as importantly, you have patiently brought this knowledge well
within the engineering limits of those of us who have to adjust their valves
three times just to feel confident that they will neither rattle nor
silently not close at all. 

Consequently, other than the intellectual stimulation that many of us
enjoyed from all this conversation, I am left with two thoughts.

First, I would like to express my (Fot) appreciation to our brain trust for
the thought-provoking lessons.  And, secondly, since Uncle Jack adjusts his
valves on the tight side, so will I. That's all I need to know (thank you
Keats)and more than I got out of my calculus classes.

Thanks again,

Richard
TR-4 #196


From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 13:13:36 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:13:36 -0800
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>

Hello:

 

A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has been
investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local race fuel
supply dealer.  

 

 

https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm

 

 

Gary

 

PS - no financial interest, info only.


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Tue Jan  8 16:05:32 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the city
with the details.

Kevin


From vintage.racer at comcast.net  Tue Jan  8 16:28:05 2008
From: vintage.racer at comcast.net (Gary Horstkorta)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:28:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV14D8D990C8B2A797F4F458B7480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003901c8524e$1fb08d10$5f11a730$@racer@comcast.net>

Kevin:

Don't hold your breath.  There have been three parties involved in this
project since the idea was first broached with the City of SF in 2005.  An
individual, familiar with the beginnings of the Pittsburg GP, approached the
city with the idea and supposedly succeeded in gaining approval from the
Parks & Recreation Dept, but not the Board of Supervisors.  Once that
individual realized the enormity of the project, not to mention the
liability, he dropped out.  Another organization was asked to become
involved and presented a proper plan. For various reasons this situation was
terminated and the so called sponsors contacted the SCCA who declined, they
then turned to HMSA.  From what I understand, HMSA agreed to conduct (for a
fee) a feasibility study and that is the last I've heard.  I suspect the
logistics and liability are hurdles to large to overcome, not to mention
having to convince the board of supervisors, the environmentalists and other
civic groups in SF.  Nope, don't think it will ever happen.

Gary        

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+vintage.racer=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
KEVIN LYNCH
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 3:06 PM
To: FOT
Subject: [Fot] San Francisco G.P.

Was curious if anyone knows the current status of the Golden Gate Gran Prix?
It is (or was) planned for June 2008. It was rumored HMSA was helping the
city
with the details.

Kevin
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:13:30 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:13:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>

Gary,

You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

Allen

On Jan 8, 2008, at 2:13 PM, Gary Horstkorta wrote:

> Hello:
>
>
>
> A racing friend of mine sent the following website link to me.  He has 
> been
> investigating the ZDDP situation and found this product at a local 
> race fuel
> supply dealer.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://secure.mysuperpageshosting.com/kirbanperformance.com/index1.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> PS - no financial interest, info only.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan  8 22:21:47 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:21:47 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
Message-ID: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>

Joe,

For a good overview, check out the article noted below as  
www.inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>
> Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal  
> group of
> Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,  
> but some
> is new to me at least.
>
> Jim Norlin
>
>
>
> Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is Shell
> Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make  
> sure that
> whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.   
> JEG"S has
> it at about $8.00 a pint.
>
> The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds on
> immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get  
> reduced.
>
> the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing  
> engines
> likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of  
> the new
> oil formulations.
>
> CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am  
> attaching
> it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> Here is a link:
> <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? 
> ListHistoryID=
> 1821071676>
>
> anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me  
> direct
> and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you  
> directly.
> It is very interesting.
>
> Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>
> Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward this  
> to
> that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by  
> their
> monitor.
>
> Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet  
> break in,
> even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for maximum  
> life
> in a racing engine.
>
> Larry Dent
> _______________________________________________
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 22:26:02 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:26:02 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <be5.21ebb343.34b5b4ea@aol.com>

News Flash...I was told months ago that GM has discontinued the manufacture 
of E.O.S.  If you have some or know where some is I suggest you hang on to it 
or buy it.
 
There have been many threads on the ZDDP issue on the 6-Pack, Healey list, MG 
list, etc.  As a rebuilder/restorer/racer I strongly recommend you look into 
the Amsoil or Redline brands as some of their products have NOT reduced the 
content of ZDDP.  They have altered some but have kept certain products 
specifically for flat tappet engines.  There is significant test data available on the 
Amsoil website.  Specifically you want to stay with the SL type 20w-50.  NOT 
the SM type.  If you want or need more info I'm happy to help.
 
Cheers,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From mdporter at dfn.com  Tue Jan  8 22:35:04 2008
From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:35:04 -0700
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47845D08.8040007@dfn.com>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> Gary,
>
> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection 
> against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft 
> lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
> The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of 
> this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far, 
> so good. Got this from Tony Drew.
>
>   

Umm, "cramshaft."  These are available from J.C. Whitney in high-lift, 
long-duration models, yes?  :)


Cheers.

-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Wed Jan  9 07:32:04 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:32:04 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
In-Reply-To: <df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
References: <002401c85232$f43cd910$dcb68b30$@racer@comcast.net>
	<df3c4382c55775450db856d99a38027d@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200801091432.m09EWbxM401536@ns3.geneseo.net>

My local Chevy dealer told me last week that General Motors' EOS is 
now  a discontinued product. I bought the last two bottles he had. He 
also told me the inventory at all the Chevy dealers in the area and 
I'm going to buy some more. Thanks to the folks who have identified 
other magic elixirs on the market.

.At 11:13 PM 1/8/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Gary,
>
>You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership
>for less than $10.00 for 16 oz. It provides "outstanding protection
>against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in cramshaft
>lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication."
>The stuff contains 5762 ppm of P and 6221 ppm of Zn. We run 4 oz. of
>this along with the Valvoline VR1 race oil at each oil change. So far,
>so good. Got this from Tony Drew.

uncle jack 


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 08:37:44 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:37:44 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
Message-ID: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>

Greetings from Finland,

I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google 
Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last 
year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350 
and other big ones... If it's wet enough...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783

Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall 
in the end.

Regards
Jari
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/


From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan  9 08:57:59 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:57:59 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?

At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>Greetings from Finland,
>
>I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>
>Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>in the end.
>
>Regards
>Jari
>http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GRMTim at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:48:59 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:48:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
	magazine
Message-ID: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>

Guys,

With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it into 
our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you know 
of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or 
website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, please let my 
guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy and 
paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to running 
the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 GT6, 
and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

For release: Immediately
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup

The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race fans, 
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at 
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by Kas 
Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph racer 
who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas 
Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the 
marque.
Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including the 
famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, TS01, a 
1952 Triumph TR2.
Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event, 
which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western Pennsylvania 
Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph 
enthusiasts.
As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the downtown 
merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers are 
allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has 
also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will 
want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim Baxter 
at xxx.
###






**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From JWoesvra at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 09:57:00 2008
From: JWoesvra at aol.com (JWoesvra at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:57:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <c95.2242f0f7.34b656dc@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:49:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
GRMTim at aol.com writes:

The  Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
fans,  
is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at  
the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this  September 4-7 2008.



Attention everyone concerned.
 
This event is no longer sponsored by ZIPPO so it is not the Zippo Grand  Prix 
anymore.
 
It should be referred to as: SVRA ~ U.S. Vintage  Grand Prix
 
When and if a major sponsor is signed, we will let everyone know.
 
Thanks, Jack Woehrle ~ SVRA



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 10:06:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 12:06:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
Message-ID: <d45.1ca0d125.34b658fd@cs.com>

We have a couple more corrections pending, regarding the press release, but 
they should be cleared out by the end of the day.

Joe A   </HTML>


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Wed Jan  9 10:32:26 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:32:26 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi>
	<20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>

No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound 
is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb. 
Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn 
there...

David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>
> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>   
>> Greetings from Finland,
>>
>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>
>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>> in the end.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jari
>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Jan  9 10:41:25 2008
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <200801091741.m09HfPWR016129@moose.dimebank.com>

> You can buy "E.O.S. Assembly Lubricant" at your local GMC dealership 
> for less than $10.00 for 16 oz.

Not last time I checked - they've stopped selling it.

Not even mail order.


From d.hesse at charter.net  Wed Jan  9 11:39:53 2008
From: d.hesse at charter.net (d.hesse at charter.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:39:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] VARA at Buttonwillow May 3-4
Message-ID: <20080109133953.U5E5V.776687.root@fepweb04>

I was wondering who from the group will be racing at Buttonwillow on May 3-4? My wife and I are coming out to stay in Newport Beach and are thinking of taking the 3hr drive north to catch a day of the races. Any other car related events happening in the LA area that weekend that anyone would recommend?
Thanks.
Dave Hesse
Portage WI


From triosan at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 12:05:04 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:05:04 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TR6 Convertible top screws and bolts
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801091105l1e917fb2j3001b1ccc53f92ed@mail.gmail.com>

I removed the top 3 garges ago.  Now no longer have the 6 screws that bolt
the frame to the body or the 6[?] bolts that attach the frame piece to the
rear deck.

I would like to get the required parts locally, so I need to know the sizes
of these two items.  The screws are fit into the counter sunk holes on the
frame.  I would guess they are 1/4-28 by 1/2 or 3/4 [though they could be
5/16 24].  The bolts are probably 1/4 or 5/15 and also about 1/2 or 3/4.

Would really appreciate it if anybody knows [I did not yet check in my
Repair Manual].

-- 
Chuck Arnold


From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Wed Jan  9 14:17:42 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:17:42 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <380-22008139211742277@M2W035.mail2web.com>

Hey everyone,

I just came across an auction company having a large collector-car live
auction on eBay.  It includes several Bugeyes, 1920's and 30's Fords, a
couple Minis (one Moke!), some MGs (incl. MGAs and a TD), and micro-cars
(Isettas, NSU, Honda, etc.), among others.  It also includes two Judson
Superchargers in boxes, some Hit and Miss motors, and a Honda Dream
motorcycle.

These cars are not for the faint of heart.  They are barn finds and look
it.  I think there were just a few out of all of them that may be driveable
(maybe an MG TD, a '76 Mercedes, a Ford Taurus...).  But if you would like
a decent collector-car project, you may find it here.  Apparently the
auction is in PA (at least the auction company is).

Here is the link to their auctions on eBay:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalderferauction

Just FYI, since I know some of you out there are as insane as we are!

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 14:24:52 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:24:52 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cfa.2686b2a3.34b695a4@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 3:18:15 PM Central Standard Time, 
spitfiresuz at 141.com writes:


> It also includes two Judson
> Superchargers in boxes,

My experience suggests if you are a successful bidder on one of the Judson 
Supercharges, and your engine is 'prepped' in any way, you paint the Judson gold 
and display it on a shelf, rather than put it on the car.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From rocky at spitfire4.com  Wed Jan  9 15:02:36 2008
From: rocky at spitfire4.com (Rocky Entriken)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:02:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>

Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.

Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but apparently 
that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice drive in the wet.

--Rocky Entriken
#4 Spitfire (also 1147)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys


> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
> there...
>
> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>
>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>
>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th overall
>>> in the end.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jari
>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 16:56:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:56:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>

**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
From: BillDentin at aol.com
Full-name: BillDentin
Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
To: kaskas at cox.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
writes:

I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
a bush.

My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
better on the MGA than the TRs.
 
Bill Dentinger
 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  9 17:18:36 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (steve)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:18:36 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!

~Steve

-----Original Message-----
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
>To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
>Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
>From: BillDentin at aol.com
>Full-name: BillDentin
>Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
>Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
>To: kaskas at cox.net
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
>X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
>
>In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, kaskas at cox.net 
>writes:
>
>I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales 
>at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests 
>on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then 
>remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant flowers or even 
>a bush.
>
>My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in the early 
>1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in 
>Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better have a rev 
>limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, but came with 
>instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told me they worked 
>better on the MGA than the TRs.
> 
>Bill Dentinger
> 
>
>
>
>**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From stutzmans at comcast.net  Wed Jan  9 17:28:44 2008
From: stutzmans at comcast.net (Stutzman)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:28:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic
 Motorsportsmagazine
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c8531f$c1f85c70$6400a8c0@D9DGQM31>

TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
Bruce
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
Motorsportsmagazine


> Guys,
>
> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
> into
> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
> know
> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
> please let my
> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
> and
> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
> running
> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
> GT6,
> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>
> Tim Suddard
> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
> www.classicmotorsports.net
> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
> For release: Immediately
> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>
> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
> fans,
> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
> Kas
> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
> racer
> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
> marque.
> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
> the
> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
> TS01, a
> 1952 Triumph TR2.
> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
> Pennsylvania
> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
> enthusiasts.
> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
> downtown
> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
> are
> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
> but lives
> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
> For
> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
> Baxter
> at xxx.
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Wed Jan  9 18:05:30 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:05:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
References: <d25.1be1186b.34b6b931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF5F88@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC

You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp3.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 18:10:38 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:10:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] ZDDP Solution
Message-ID: <c0a.27f32938.34b6ca8e@aol.com>

I rest my case.
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan  9 19:08:29 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from
 ClassicMotorsportsmagazine
Message-ID: <7BCE119A.7DC3B7B3.00159EE9@cs.com>

good point Bruce.  this should be mentioned in appreciation of TRFs efforts.  thanks 

>TRF's TRS is also going to be there.
>Bruce
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <GRMTim at aol.com>
>To: <fot at autox.team.net>
>Cc: <baxster at grassrootsmotorsports.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM
>Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic 
>Motorsportsmagazine
>
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> With the new year upon us I finally got a day to work on this and get it 
>> into
>> our public relations plan for 08. Info and pics are at our site. If you 
>> know
>> of any club newsletter, local paper, radio or even national magazine or
>> website that might be interested in running info on our focus event, 
>> please let my
>> guy, Baxter know, so he can get with them. You are also welcome to copy 
>> and
>> paste this wherever you see fit. Thanks for the help. Looking forward to 
>> running
>> the Glen for the first time ever. Wish it was going to be in the Group 44 
>> GT6,
>> and it may be close by then, but will probably be in the old TR3.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> For release: Immediately
>> Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup
>>
>> The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group of Triumph racers and race 
>> fans,
>> is assembling Triumph cars from around the world to showcase the marque at
>> the SVRA Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glen this September 4-7 2008.
>> The highlight of   this event is the presentation of the Kastner Cup by 
>> Kas
>> Kastner and Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors to the Triumph 
>> racer
>> who best embodies the spirit of the marque and the event.
>> Legendary Triumph tuner, racer and head of the competition department, Kas
>> Kastner will be on hand to assist racers and meet and talk to fans of the
>> marque.
>> Many significant Triumph cars are already scheduled to appear including 
>> the
>> famous Group 44 factory race cars and the first Triumph TR ever made, 
>> TS01, a
>> 1952 Triumph TR2.
>> Triumph clubs from all over the globe are organizing to attend this event,
>> which is the largest vintage race weekend in the east. The Western 
>> Pennsylvania
>> Triumph Club is organizing hospitality and the car corral area for Triumph
>> enthusiasts.
>> As part of this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing, the 
>> downtown
>> merchants association of Watkins Glen puts on a street festival and racers 
>> are
>> allowed to run the old street circuit through the town. This festival has
>> also named Triumph the featured marque for the weekend.
>> All fans of the Triumph marque and other classic sports and race cars will
>> want to make sure to put this event on their calendar.
>> Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on
>> magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past 
>> but lives
>> in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic
>> Motorsports can request one through our Web site, classicmotorsports.net. 
>> For
>> quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292.
>> For more information go to www.ClassicMotorsports.net or contact Tim 
>> Baxter
>> at xxx.
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Jan  9 19:58:02 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Official Watkins Glen release from Classic Motorsports
 magazine
In-Reply-To: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
References: <d50.1e0e06b6.34b654fb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478589BA.7030705@bradakis.com>

>The Friends Of Triumph, the nationwide group
>  
>
You misspelled 'international'

mjb.


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Thu Jan 10 01:42:30 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:42:30 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa
	.earthlink.net>
References: <19125396.1199924316541.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200801100843.m0A8h4Uu362457@ns3.geneseo.net>

Thereis a name for this class of cars. It is "Rare and Undesirable".

At 06:18 PM 1/9/2008, steve wrote:
>Hey Bill, I remember my dad trying to talk you out of it!
>
>~Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Sent: Jan 9, 2008 3:56 PM
> >To: "'fot at autox.team.net'" <fot at autox.team.net>
> >Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >Return-path: <BillDentin at aol.com>
> >From: BillDentin at aol.com
> >Full-name: BillDentin
> >Message-ID: <cd5.23266a34.34b6b789 at aol.com>
> >Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:49:29 EST
> >Subject: Re: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
> >To: kaskas at cox.net
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5132
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
> >X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
> >
> >In a message dated 1/9/2008 4:29:51 PM Central Standard Time, 
> kaskas at cox.net
> >writes:
> >
> >I installed a Judson way back in the late 50's on a TR-3 for Triumph Sales
> >at Cal Sales. Great care was done on this and on the before and after tests
> >on the dyne the stock engine made more power. Paint gold as Bill says, then
> >remove the innards and fill with good planting mix and plant 
> flowers or even
> >a bush.
> >
> >My first hand experience is I had one on a bone stock 1959 TR3A in 
> the early
> >1980s, and broke the crank warming the engine up for a NATC Autocross in
> >Illinois.  I guess a billet crank might help fix that, but better 
> have a rev
> >limiter too.  Seems to me they promised a 15% horsepower increase, 
> but came with
> >instructions to be used on stock engines only.  People have told 
> me they worked
> >better on the MGA than the TRs.
> >
> >Bill Dentinger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> >http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >_______________________________________________
> >http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> >Fot mailing list
> >Fot at autox.team.net
> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Thu Jan 10 07:31:24 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:31:24 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <be5.22174695.34b7863c@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/09/2008 7:06:17 PM Central Standard Time, 
RYoung at navcomtech.com writes:


> You broke the crank just warming up ???  Doing what, burnouts ?
> 

Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either.  It saved me a lot of 
embarrassment.  I'm not that good at autocrossing.  And I got the event's 
'hard luck' trophy.  

I wish I'd have gotten a buck for each picture taken of my engine bay at that 
event.  Lots of people there had never seen a Judson supercharger.

Bill (Damdinger)


Bill
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 05:42:16 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:42:16 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
Message-ID: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>

Jack,

Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:      
www.Inengineering.com/oil.html

Allen
On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:

> I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
>
> At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
>> Joe,
>>
>> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
>> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
>> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
>> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
>> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
>> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
>> >
>> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
>> > group of
>> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
>> > but some
>> > is new to me at least.
>> >
>> > Jim Norlin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is 
>> Shell
>> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
>> > sure that
>> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
>> > JEG"S has
>> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
>> >
>> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds 
>> on
>> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
>> > reduced.
>> >
>> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
>> > engines
>> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
>> > the new
>> > oil formulations.
>> >
>> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
>> > attaching
>> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
>> > Here is a link:
>> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? > 
>> ListHistoryID=
>> > 1821071676>
>> >
>> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
>> > direct
>> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
>> > directly.
>> > It is very interesting.
>> >
>> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
>> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
>> >
>> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward 
>> this
>> > to
>> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
>> > their
>> > monitor.
>> >
>> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
>> > break in,
>> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for 
>> maximum
>> > life
>> > in a racing engine.
>> >
>> > Larry Dent
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Fot mailing list
>> > Fot at autox.team.net
>> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> >
>> >
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> uncle jack
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 10 06:31:23 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:31:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] GT6 front suspension pieces
Message-ID: <399064.15381.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Does anyone on the list have spare GT6 vertical links w/stub axles, hubs, and calipers that they are willing to sell. I have a Spitfire in the shop that is coming to life as a racer which needs these pieces. I also need the GT6 rear brake backing plates as I sold/gave away all I had when we were making the Summers Bro's axles.
  Any help finding these bits is appreciated 
  Thanks - Ed


From jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi  Thu Jan 10 13:14:33 2008
From: jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi (Jari Tabell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:14:33 +0200
Subject: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
In-Reply-To: <001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
References: <4784EA48.7030108@pp.inet.fi><20080109161034.XJKE2125.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<4785052A.1060503@pp.inet.fi>
	<001601c8530b$59154150$6601a8c0@S1099895562>
Message-ID: <47867CA9.1000203@pp.inet.fi>

Yes, the mechanical tacho is not in operation. I have an electrical one 
on the steering column. The old one would go round anyway, as I use to 
change at 8000rpm and have the absolute mental limit at 8500.

Yes, on the last lap I made a a bit longer trip... I braked a bit too 
late and didn't want to risk anything, so I used the safety road. Most 
embarrassing would have been be stucking on the gravel trap between the 
track and safety road.

Regards
Jari

Rocky Entriken kirjoitti:
> Your tach disconnected? Too bad I couldn't see the revs.
>
> Also looked you had an "off" on about the last lap or so, but 
> apparently that track comes complete with a return road.  :-) Nice 
> drive in the wet.
>
> --Rocky Entriken
> #4 Spitfire (also 1147)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jari Tabell" <jari.tabell at pp.inet.fi>
> To: "David W. Riddle" <dave at microworks.net>
> Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Spifire vs. big boys
>
>
>> No, luckily he saw what was going on and left me space. That nasty sound
>> is from my right hand front wheel hitting the inside of the inner kerb.
>> Frankly speaking, for a moment I wasn't so sure if it's going to turn
>> there...
>>
>> David W. Riddle kirjoitti:
>>> Did the Orange car hit you at about 2:14 into the video?
>>>
>>> At 08:37 AM 1/9/2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings from Finland,
>>>>
>>>> I just uploaded some in-car video footage from my Spitfire to Google
>>>> Video. It's from the Historic GT/GTS race in Gellerasen, Sweden last
>>>> year. Please check how a 1147cc Spitfire can humiliate a Shelby GT 350
>>>> and other big ones... If it's wet enough...
>>>>
>>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8395779742210616783
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately the track dried after mid race, so I was only 4th 
>>>> overall
>>>> in the end.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Jari
>>>> http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jtabell/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> Fot mailing list
>>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From emanteno at comcast.net  Thu Jan 10 14:03:07 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:03:07 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <011020082103.25315.4786880B000BD156000062E32200734364970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: BillDentin at aol.com 

> Just revving a cold engine...and not that high either. It saved me a lot of 
> embarrassment. I'm not that good at autocrossing. And I got the event's 
> 'hard luck' trophy. 

Yeah, as I recall, he was puttering around in the lot to let the engine warm up and then it just broke. I also remember that Bill labelled one of his other vehicles as a "TR_" whatever for the rest of the Convention.

Irv Korey


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Thu Jan 10 14:37:47 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:37:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire vs. big boys.
Message-ID: <02b501c853d1$0b303c80$3464a8c0@SIMON>

I seem to remember someone embarassing himself by getting stuck in a gravel
trap recently....at a rather crucial point of a rather important race.....chap
with a name like Hamilton or something similar?
Simon.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 10 17:16:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] EOS is Back
Message-ID: <7b246ee4cb318a0f78467358766ff347@wi.rr.com>

Good news! EOS is back. The story I was given is that the supplier for 
GM ceased production for whatever reason. A new supplier surfaced and 
the product is now back on the shelf. However, the price has doubled to 
$20 a bottle (16 oz.). I just bought a bottle today.

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From spreiss at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 05:17:13 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 23:17:13 +1100
Subject: [Fot] steering
Message-ID: <000d01c85382$bc0335c0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956) TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net


From malaboge at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 00:15:30 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:15:30 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Steering
Message-ID: <8CA2238E1DDC1B4-9F8-3753@webmail-de10.sysops.aol.com>

I am trying to get my steering and toe set up properly on my early (1956)
TR3.
When I center the steering gear with the tie rods all connected (equal turns
to both left and right lock), the only way I can get the alignment even close
is to adjust the tie rod ends such that the lengths are unequal by about a
quarter of an inch. I know from the manual that the lengths are supposed to
be
equal. They even give a length to use to set up toe prior to checking with
the
alignment gauges. Several questions come to mind. Is lock determined by the
worm and peg in the box, or by stops on the rods? Is it likely that a
previous
owner may have removed the drop arm from the splined shaft and replaced it
incorrectly? Or am I missing some critical factor altogether?

Also, I am modifying a set of late TR4 upper A-arms, in preparation for a
swap
to permit camber adjustment. I am able move the position of the ball joint in
by nearly 5/16" by cutting and bending out the shoulder of the rear half of
the upper wishbone, slotting the bolt holes and welding the thing up to make
it whole. I figure this will result in approximately 2.5 degrees rotation,
from +1 to -1.5 degrees. My race tires are 5.00 x 15 Dunlop vintage bias
racing on sixty spoke wire wheels. Does this seem reasonable for a
combination
of spirited daily driving and eventual track days? (Disclaimer accepted for
running the race tires on the street.) I am also replacing the TR3 trunnions
with a pair of late TR4 trunnions to provide negative caster. I find that the
new bushings, sourced from TRF, are an extremely tight fit on the new
spindles, to the point that they would have to be pressed on. Any advice on
how to obtain a proper fit? By the look of the old spindles, the original
bushings seem to have been improperly fitted too. They show a huge amount of
wear on the bottom half of the spindle, and heavy pitting all around.

Steven Preiss
spreiss at verizon.net
Steve-
Never mind the lock to lock criteria...Note the angles formed by the idler arm
and the steering drop arm (the one from the steering box), they should be the
same when the steering is straight ahead. B I can't recall if the arms are
actually pointed straight forward, or at an angle. BUT they should be parallel
or have the same angle off of straight ahead (although they will be degrees
left and right). B Does this make sense? B In Ascii this should look like /__\
B or |__|. B Set your steering up so that the arms are as above and use that
as the starting point. B Even up the toe while the arms are even and then deal
with the steering wheel. B The tie rods should be equal at this point. B You
may indeed have the steering drop arm on the box incorrectly, but that needs
to be checked with all the linkage disconnected from the drop arm, then you
can check the lock to lock issue.

2.5 degrees of negative camber is too much for most bias ply tires, they
usually don't work well with more than about 1 to 1.5 degrees negative camber.
B Which bushing style are you using, TR3? B If so, the metal bushings are
designed to be reamed to fit.

Off at an angle myself...
B B B B B B B B B B Nick in Nor Cal


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com


From tony at tonydrews.com  Fri Jan 11 07:25:46 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:25:46 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  FW: More Oil Info
In-Reply-To: <5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
References: <f1e4cfab2d34c5b735281354ed4da35e@wi.rr.com>
	<200801100849.m0A8n4lc336618@ns3.geneseo.net>
	<5e98ef77025bbfc4edbf149351b094d9@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080111142352.8F0311879BA@autox.team.net>

Try this link - it's actually an L .
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

- Tony

At 06:42 AM 1/10/2008, Allen Washatko wrote:
>Jack,
>
>Sorry. The "i" should be capitalized:
>www.Inengineering.com/oil.html
>
>Allen
>On Jan 10, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Jack W. Drews wrote:
>
> > I got a message back saying 'not a valid link'
> >
> > At 11:21 PM 1/8/2008, you wrote:
> >> Joe,
> >>
> >> For a good overview, check out the article noted below as
> >> www.inengineering.com/oil.html
> >>
> >> Allen
> >>
> >>
> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >>
> >> > From: Norlin Engineering <norlinengineering at comcast.net>
> >> > Date: March 16, 2007 12:21:33 PM CDT
> >> > To: FOT <fot at autox.team.net>
> >> > Cc: lwdent at localnet.com
> >> > Subject: [Fot] FW: More Oil Info
> >> >
> >> > Forwarded by request - This was sent out yesterday to an informal
> >> > group of
> >> > Pacific Northwest Vintage Racers.  Some of it we have already seen,
> >> > but some
> >> > is new to me at least.
> >> >
> >> > Jim Norlin
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Another non synthetic oil that still has the "good" additives is
> >> Shell
> >> > Rotella.  Comp Cam and Crane both make a break in additive to make
> >> > sure that
> >> > whatever oil you use does not wipe the cam lobes during break in.
> >> > JEG"S has
> >> > it at about $8.00 a pint.
> >> >
> >> > The additives have changed due to increased pressure from the Feds
> >> on
> >> > immisions and heavy metals.  Zink is not the only additive to get
> >> > reduced.
> >> >
> >> > the critical time is for break in, but engines such as our racing
> >> > engines
> >> > likely will suffer higher wear during their life cycle with many of
> >> > the new
> >> > oil formulations.
> >> >
> >> > CompCam did Tech bulletin #225 on 4-10-06 on this subject.  I am
> >> > attaching
> >> > it as a PDF file but it may not be accepted by the talk line.
> >> > Here is a link:
> >> > <http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp? >
> >> ListHistoryID=
> >> > 1821071676>
> >> >
> >> > anyone that does not get it and is interested in seeing it e mail me
> >> > direct
> >> > and off the vintage line and I will be happy to forward it to you
> >> > directly.
> >> > It is very interesting.
> >> >
> >> > Another long but informative article on current oil problems can be
> >> > found here.   www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.
> >> >
> >> > Also, anyone on the Friends of Triumph line might want to forward
> >> this
> >> > to
> >> > that group as I am not a member and this message will be rejected by
> >> > their
> >> > monitor.
> >> >
> >> > Bottom line is that many current oils are not good for flat tappet
> >> > break in,
> >> > even with the highest API ratings!  They are also doubtful for
> >> maximum
> >> > life
> >> > in a racing engine.


From DSPGTi at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 09:40:18 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:40:18 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>

There is a chance that a few of us might be attending the auction live. If  
there is anyone wanting a first hand description, let me know. I'll see if we  
can coordinate something.
 
Dave Y



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 12:22:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.

Allen


Begin forwarded message:

> From: feedback at ashland.com
> Date: January 11, 2008 9:55:46 AM CST
> To: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> Absolutely, the online product information sheets found at
> Valvoline.com, are currently the latest sheets available and the
> latest numbers for ZDDP.  The Valvoline VR1 is still the best oil.
>
>
>
> To:        VWEBMAIL at Ashland
> cc:        
>
> Subject:        Site feedback from Valvoline.com
>
>
> The following person submitted a question or comment via the Contact
> us form of type Ask Racing
>  First Name:  Allen
>  Last Name:  Washatko
>  Address1:  N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>  Address2:
>  City:  Cedarburg
>  State:  WI
>  Zip Code:  53012
>  Phone:  2623756888
>
> Email Address:  awashatko at wi.rr.com
>
> Comments:
>
> Are your oil product spec sheets current regarding the percentage of
> ZDDP?
>  I race a 1971 Triumph TR6 with flat tappets and it is critical to
> have the correct oil to protect my engine. I have been using Valvoline
> VR-1 and would like to confirm that the oil still has the proper ZDDP
> content.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
>  Timely maintenance of your vehicle is the best way to avoid costly
> repairs down the road and to keep your car running longer. Valvoline
> has introduced 'Vehicle Manager' to help you maintain and track your
> car maintenance.
>
>  Vehicle Manager:
>  -  - Provides car manufacturer (OEM) specifications and maintenance
> schedule
>  -  - Helps you manage and track services for multiple vehicles
>  -  - Keeps information readily available in a single, private
> environment
>  -  - Provides email reminders for services due
>
>  Visit www.vehiclemanager.com and take a test drive or register for
> this FREE service.
>
>  This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
> to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
> privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable
> law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying
> of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone
> at 1-800-TEAM-VAL. Thank you.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This electronic mail may contain information that is privileged,
> proprietary and confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. This transmission is intended solely for the
> individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended
> recipient, you should understand that any distribution, copying, or
> use of the information contained in this transmission by anyone other
> than the intended recipient is unauthorized and strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately
> notify the sender and destroy all copies which you may have of this
> communication.
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 13:41:21 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:41:21 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>

Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
 
eBay item # 150204793158
 
Worth checking out! :-)  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Fri Jan 11 14:31:48 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <02a201c85499$5fc42a40$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

Interesting car.  I spoke to a fellow last year that was going to chop up
one to make into a drag car and he said the wheel base was too short for
drag car spec.  I guess it needs to be a certain length.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Herald948 at aol.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?


> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,
Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph
Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 15:01:26 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:01:26 EST
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
Message-ID: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the dash I 
am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various  switches, 
cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old one but it is in 
very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
 
Thanks,
 
Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 17:07:01 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:07:01 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brad Penn Oil Response
Message-ID: <e2c8348d8fb1df4bdee7855759704668@wi.rr.com>

Response to my request for specs on the oil.

Allen


Dear Allen,
Thank you for your inquiry about Penn Grade 1 racing oil. It seems that
the buzz of the industry today is the amount of ZDDP. Our racing oil,
The Green Oil, is being heavily requested by all racing segments
including historic, vintage and restoration/muscle cars; especially
engines using flat tappet cams.  We have been contacted by numerous
Triumph and Porsche Clubs concerning issues with some of todays motor
oils. With our racing oils, we did not reduce the level of ZDDP (zinc
anti-wear additive); in addition, we obtain a unique cut from our tower
that causes our racing oil to tenaciously cling to engine parts,
especially to flat tappet and roller cams minimizing wear in the
engine. Its just not the zinc but the proper additive balance that
separates our oil from the rest. With Cam manufactures such as ISKY,
CRANE, HOWARDS, CAM MOTION to name a few that our recommending our oil
we meet the test.  I have also copied by this e mail a BRAD PENN
distributor who can assist you with you lubricant needs. I have
attached a recent article that will give you some additional insight.
Thank you
 
Stone Lake  Oil
Keane Laakson
715-865-3443
 
Sincerely
Nick Dixon
 
BRAD PENN Lubricants
American Refining Group Inc.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils
The Green Oil.

 The term 100% Pure Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil has long carried
with it an industry connotation for being one of the best sources of
high quality lubricant base stocks in the world.  Our BRAD PENN.
refinery, the oldest continuously operating lube oil refinery in the
United States, still refines 100% Pennsylvania grade crude oil.  PA
grade crude oil is a very thermally stable paraffinic crude oil which
contains no asphaltic constituents.  This makes it an ideal choice from
which to refine premium quality base oils.  Because we use only one
crude stock, our refined products are of consistently high quality and
performance. 

BRAD PENN. brand products are truly MADE IN THE U.S.A.  American
Refining Groups Bradford, PA refinery is the home of The Green Oil.
that racers, engine builders and enthusiasts alike have all come to
know and love!  The unique green color and outstanding performance of
our Penn Grade 1 Racing oils set them apart from the competition.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils are formulated using a unique base
oil cut from our tower, which gives our PG 1 racing oils exceptional
film strength and unsurpassed metal wetting abilities.  This unique
base oil causes our PG 1 racing oil to cling tenaciously to engine
parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods
of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during
competition.  This same oil cling helps prevent dry-start
conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle
for extended periods.
BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils also contain highly effective
detergent and dispersant additives to guarantee exceptional engine
cleanliness as well as oxidation and foam inhibitors that offer
protection against thermal degradation and air entrainment.

In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of
zinc (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding
anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either flat
tappet or roller cams.  BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils have been
evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with
tremendous success. Many are now recommending our PG 1 racing oils to
provide outstanding protection for their flat tappet or roller cams.

The American Refining Group, Inc. offers a comprehensive line of BRAD
PENN. lubricants such as gear oil, grease and other items to meet the
majority of racing needs.  We also offer a complete line of lubricants
for todays passenger car, fleet, commercial and industrial
applications.

BRAD PENN. Penn Grade 1. Racing Oils:

Penn Grade 1. Break-In Oil
SAE 30 mono-grade oil formulated specifically to meet the critical
lubrication needs of new engines during break-in while allowing proper
seating of rings and component run-in.  Enhanced levels of zinc
(zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) and superior oil film
strength from Penn Grade base oils offer complete anti-wear,
anti-scuffing protection for even the most demanding of applications
such as those presented by break-in of engines with flat tappet cams.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 0W-30
A high-performance, lighter viscosity racing oil specifically designed
to maximize horsepower while protecting critical engine parts.  Penn
Grade base oils provide superior film strength while synthetic stocks
enhance performance throughout a wide range of operating temperatures
and conditions


Page 2



Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 10W-30
A truly versatile racing oil suitable for engines used both on the
street and/or the track.
The multi-viscosity grade and synthetic components facilitate cold
starting and quicker engine warm-up while insuring adequate engine
protection during competition.

Penn Grade 1. Partial Synthetic SAE 20W-50
Designed to offer higher performance racing engines the cold
temperature operational benefits of an SAE 20W engine oil while
providing the desired film strength; sealing abilities; bearing,
crankshaft, piston ring and valvetrain component anti-wear protection
of an SAE 50 weight oil at normal engine operating temperatures.

Penn Grade 1. SAE 50
Heavy viscosity, straight-grade motor oil designed to provide superior
lubrication to high-performance competition engines fueled by gasoline,
methanol or nitromethane.
Superior alcohol separation assures continual lubricant protection to
the engine.

Penn Grade 1. Nitro 70
High viscosity, high-performance motor oil engineered for use in
nitromethane or methanol fueled competition engines.  The heavy
viscosity and exceptional film strength provided by the Penn Grade
base oils helps protect against cylinder wash down and oil thinning
from fuel dilution typically encountered in these applications.

Penn Grade 1. Full Synthetic Hypoid Gear/Blower Racing Lubricant
A specially formulated 100% synthetic SAE 75W-90 oil designed for use
with self-contained systems where a SAE 75W, SAE 80W-90 or SAE 90 gear
oil is recommended.  Suitable for use in Roots and Lysholm screw-type
superchargers. May also be used in manual transmissions and hypoid
differentials.







 
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From GSFuqua1 at aol.com  Wed Jan  9 21:56:47 2008
From: GSFuqua1 at aol.com (GSFuqua1 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:56:47 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
Message-ID: <d6a.18595bfb.34b6ff8f@aol.com>

Thought this might be of interest given the recent discussion on oil.   
Enjoy!!  Gary



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:28:51 -0600
Subject: [ATR Ltd.] Flat Tappet Oil
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Received some interesting information today.  Marc Haibeck of Addison, Ill. is
one of 4 technicians that work on the 1990-1995 ZR-1 Corvette engines and is
the only person in the world that works on them full time.  These are 32 valve
flat tappet engines.  Only a little over 5,000 of them were made.  Haibeck
became interested in AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oil
(AMO) when he learned it is specifically designed to meet the needs of car
engines with flat tappets, such as those in the ZR-1.  He said " API
specifications do not meet the requirements of the ZR-1 engines.  The removal
of the EP additives makes the oil incompatible with the LT5 engines.  AMO
conforms to the SG specifications and I made a big discovery that as the oil
evolves it doesn't necessarily get better; it's simply changing."  He
recommends AMSOIL AMO for all flat tappet engines as "it is blended specially
to address this technical requirement.  AMSOIL solves the problem".  He
further stated, "Many of my customers were using Mobil 1 and I expected people
to resist the AMSOIL, but I have not had a single person question my
recommendation yet.
Guess the above sort of explains why I have mentioned the AMSOIL AMO as
something those of us with flat tappet engines ought to be considering.
API-SL rated oil is great for flat tappets but DO NOT use API-SM rated oils as
they do not have enough ZDDP.  I might also mention that Boyd Coddington has
now standardized all of his vehicles on AMSOIL products.

Bill
brinke at cebridge.net


From rjl6n at cstone.net  Fri Jan 11 15:42:03 2008
From: rjl6n at cstone.net (rjl6n at cstone.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:42:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
In-Reply-To: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
References: <c86.23080ba4.34b92e71@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3991.128.143.61.67.1200091323.squirrel@webmail.ntelos.net>

> Perhaps we could invite the buyer of this car to join our ranks?
>
> eBay item # 150204793158
>
> Worth checking out! :-)

Hmmmm, when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even funnier!

John


From mark at bradakis.com  Fri Jan 11 18:19:34 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
References: <cde.210e4991.34b8f5f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <478815A6.9090208@bradakis.com>

I assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little hamlet out in the country.

mjb.


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:28:00 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:28:00 EST
Subject: [Fot] future FOT member?
Message-ID: <d21.1d5fbcfa.34b971a0@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:42:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
rjl6n at cstone.net writes:

Hmmmm,  when we used the "rotary powered Mayflower" as
an example for the autocross  rules, I didn't think anyone
was crazy enough to actually build one  (although the
thought did cross my mind).  This is even  funnier!



==AM==
My first reaction was that the drag world apparently has long since run out  
of old Anglias, Thames Panel Vans and Fiat Topolinos, all of which used to 
make  great dragsters back in the '60s!  

--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 




**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Herald948 at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 18:34:38 2008
From: Herald948 at aol.com (Herald948 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:34:38 EST
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
Message-ID: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mark at bradakis.com writes:

I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.


==AM==
Every "twelfth night" or so?
 
I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
 
I'll stop now.
 
--Andy   Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph 
Herald engine with  wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and  Triumph Herald 
Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/) 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Billbab at mac.com  Fri Jan 11 23:10:07 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:10:07 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Collector car live auction (bard finds) on eBay
In-Reply-To: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
References: <ca2.230b6476.34b9732e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B59DE6A6-54C6-4944-BBBA-F5323F4D6DCF@mac.com>

Oh dear, someone let the punsters out.

On Jan 11, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Herald948 at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/11/2008 8:17:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark at bradakis.com writes:
>
> I  assumed that 'bard finds' were something one
> discovers in some little  hamlet out in the country.
>
>
> ==AM==
> Every "twelfth night" or so?
>
> I forgot how many newer MGs were listed: "2 'Bs' or NOT 2 'Bs'?"
>
> I'll stop now.
>
> --Andy   Mace
>
> *Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
> *Man: Well, no ... It's not  so  much of a jet, it's more your, er,  
> Triumph
> Herald engine with  wings.
> -- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus   (22)
>
> Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and   
> Triumph Herald
> Database: _http://triumph-herald.us_ (http://triumph-herald.us/)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660


From Guyots3 at wmconnect.com  Sat Jan 12 01:16:33 2008
From: Guyots3 at wmconnect.com (Guyots3 at wmconnect.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:16:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
Message-ID: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>

In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:

> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:22:49 -0600
> From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Message-ID: <63733c7b6ea801f7f4a6aafead41e156 at wi.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> FoT,
> 
> I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> 
> Allen

I am not in the least surprised by their response.

I suggest that you write back and tell them that since they are not prepared 
to grace your enquiry with an honest reply, you will have no alternative than 
to buy Amsoil, and advise all your racinng friends to do the same as they 
obviously have something to hide!

Leon

(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)

 
   </HTML>


From vinttr4 at geneseo.net  Sat Jan 12 07:01:39 2008
From: vinttr4 at geneseo.net (Jack W. Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:01:39 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Valvoline VR-1 feedback
In-Reply-To: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
References: <c43.255652a6.34b9d161@wmconnect.com>
Message-ID: <200801121402.m0CE2EwH107282@ns3.geneseo.net>

About a year ago I went 'round and 'round with Castrol. Same deal. 
They gave me three answers in a row that said everything was 
"adequate" or "exceeds", yada yada. Then I got through to a personal 
friend who works for a distributor, we found their actual spec sheet, 
and sure enough, not enough ZDDP for us.

Since then he has sent me their news release about a special Syntec 
for racing -- but no news on where to get it.

At 02:16 AM 1/12/2008, you wrote:
>In a message dated 1/11/2008 5:28:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, Allen writes:
>
> > FoT,
> >
> > I contacted Valvoline to confirm the percentages of Zn and P they list
> > for the VR-1 oil. This is what they sent back.
> >
> > Allen
>
>
>(fed up with bullcrap from manufacturers)
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>uncle jack


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 11:16:33 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>

Hello carb enthusiasts,  I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the
Renault Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project.  The stock Gordini Solex wont fit due
to the positioning of the head faring and the engine.  My best solution is to
fit a SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my own
construction.  The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because
it fits so nicely?  Important details:  The engine is an 850cc Renault that
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia.  the diameter of the stock carb throat
is 1.259",  the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125".  Am I making a big
mistake going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi downdraft?
Thanks in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of
this list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their
desparaging and denegrading remarks concerning
Renaults....................Cheers Henry Morrison, Cedar Crest,  New Mexico
Check out the Bunce Buck at
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars


From jerrypoole at arkansas.net  Sat Jan 12 11:27:33 2008
From: jerrypoole at arkansas.net (jerrypoole at arkansas.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:27:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
Message-ID: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>

Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items? 
Thanks, Jerry


From tony at tonydrews.com  Sat Jan 12 11:43:57 2008
From: tony at tonydrews.com (Tony Drews)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:43:57 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Discussion over the last week about  0.875" lifters
In-Reply-To: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
References: <1104.4.226.141.68.1200162453.squirrel@www.arkansas.net>
Message-ID: <20080112184221.32190187A44@autox.team.net>

Here's Comp Cam's solid lifters page from their catalog:
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/257.html

- Tony

At 12:27 PM 1/12/2008, jerrypoole at arkansas.net wrote:
>Would any of the particpants in the discussion about the Ford/Toyota,
>0.875" diameter lifters care to list any part numbers for these items?
>Thanks, Jerry


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sat Jan 12 11:50:09 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:50:09 EST
Subject: [Fot] Official Press Release by Classic Motorsports-Watkins Glen
	2008
Message-ID: <ca2.231a4fd0.34ba65e1@cs.com>

Well! Here is the first press release by our sponsor, Classic Motorsports.

A nice version with a picture of Joe Richards TR2 TS 1 LO can be found at:
ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup

(The FoT will be honoring Joe Richards and his family, along with his very 
historical TR2.  Likewise, the Village of Watkins Glen has found a place of 
honor in their weekend program)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
For release: Immediately 
Classic Motorsports magazine presents the Kastner Cup Vintage Race

It's like a planetary alignment for Triumph fans, only way cooler, since you 
can actually see it: Hundreds of historic Triumphs from around the globe are 
converging on Watkins Glen September 3-7 for the Kastner Cup Vintage Race, 
presented by Classic Motorsports magazine and Moss Motors. 

Among the luminaries will be the famed Group 44 factory race cars, the first 
production Triumph sports car, and - of course - Kas Kastner, the legendary 
Triumph tuner, racer and head of the North American Triumph Competition 
Department.

It's all part of the Sportscar Vintage Racing Association's U.S. Vintage 
Grand Prix, the Grand Prix the largest vintage race weekend in the east. Kastner 
will present the Kastner Cup to the racer who best embodies the spirit of the 
marque and the event for the award. He'll also be on hand to assist racers and 
talk to fans of the marque.

TS01, a 1953 TR2 that holds the distinction of being the first production 
Triumph sports car off the line, will also be there. Joe Richards, who 
painstakingly restored TSO1 to its historic original specs, will be honored by Friends 
of Triumph, the North America-based group of Triumph racers and race fans.

Triumph enthusiasts and racers will also be welcomed into the Friends of 
Triumph Hospitality Tent and into the town of Watkins Glen, where the local 
Chamber of Commerce organizes the yearly Grand Prix Festival on Friday. 

Triumph enthusiasts have an opportunity to enter in a Triumph-only road 
rally, and selected SVRA race cars will make a trip down from the track, park on 
display, and then take parade laps of the original 6.6 mile street circuit. 

For more information on this amazing weekend of vintage and historic racing 
go to ClassicMotorsports.net/kastner-cup or contact Tim Baxter at 
baxter at classicmotorsports.net.


Classic Motorsports, now in its 20th year of publication, is the hands-on 
magazine for the classic sports car enthusiast who appreciates the past but lives 
in the present. Anyone interested in obtaining a free sample of Classic 
Motorsports can request one through our Web site,  classicmotorsports.net. For 
quicker service, please call the magazine's offices at (800) 520-8292. 
   </HTML>


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 12:10:49 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:10:49 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little guys
will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I think
it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> Subject:
RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:54:57 -0700>
> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 1.25">
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> for
attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> engine.
I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> >
Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello carb
enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to the
positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> fit a
SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job because>
it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, the>
stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> throat>
is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> mistake
going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> Thanks
in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> desparaging
and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers Henry
Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sat Jan 12 12:16:23 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail 
happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
 http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.


> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these little 
> guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I 
> think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........Henry> From: spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> 
> Subject:
> RE: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 
> 11:54:57 -0700>
>> I don't know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a 
>> 1.25">
> (HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> 
> for
> attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit> 
> engine.
> I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI> manifold.> 
>  >
> Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original Message-----> From:
> fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>
> dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:
> fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello 
> carb
> enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the> Renault
> Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit> due> to 
> the
> positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best solution is> to> 
> fit a
> SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either) on a manifold of my> own>
> construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8" side draft do the job 
> because>
> it fits so nicely? Important details: The engine is an 850cc Renault that>
> doesn't like to go much over 4700 rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, 
> the>
> stock manifold runners are 1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> 
> throat>
> is 1.259", the diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> 
> mistake
> going with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> 
> Thanks
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> 
> desparaging
> and denegrading remarks concerning> Renaults....................Cheers 
> Henry
> Morrison, Cedar Crest, New Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>
> http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>
> _______________________________________________>
> http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Sat Jan 12 13:19:08 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl><000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <BLU116-W297BB335564DEC4A50508490440@phx.gbl>

Who knows how it's gonna drive, rest assured the first time out I'll go in
full battle dress..............Cheers Henry > From: S.Janzen at comcast.net> To:
dos_gusanos at msn.com; fot at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] question for SU
enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:16:23 -0500> > The Bunce Buck is an
interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail > happy. The gallery is
fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!>
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars> ----- Original Message
----- > From: <dos_gusanos at msn.com>> To: "Joe Curry" <spitlist at cox.net>;
<fot at autox.team.net>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:10 PM> Subject: Re:
[Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > > > Thanks for the offer, but as I look
at it, I think two of these little > > guys> > will fit. Based on the
performance of the 948 Sprite with two carbs, I > > think> > it's the way to
go. Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side> > draft.........Henry> From:
spitlist at cox.net> To: dos_gusanos at msn.com> > > Subject:> > RE: [Fot] question
for SU enthusiasts.> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 > > 11:54:57 -0700>> >> I don't
know what you are going to end up with, but if you can fit a > >> 1.25">> >
(HS2) SU, I have a piece of a manifold I can offer you that has 2 flanges> > >
for> > attaching the carbs. It is left over from my EFI conversion on a Spit>
> > engine.> > I used the flanges that mount to the head to construct the EFI>
manifold.> > > >> > Let me know if you need it.> > Joe> > -----Original
Message-----> From:> > fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net>> >
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of>> >
dos_gusanos at msn.com> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:17 AM> To:> >
fot at autox.team.net> Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.> > Hello > >
carb> > enthusiasts, I am in the process of fitting a single SU to the>
Renault> > Gordini Bunce Buck Hmod project. The stock Gordini Solex wont fit>
due> to > > the> > positioning of the head faring and the engine. My best
solution is> to> > > fit a> > SU carb to the engine(two SU's wont fit either)
on a manifold of my> own>> > construction. The Question is, will an 1-1/8"
side draft do the job > > because>> > it fits so nicely? Important details:
The engine is an 850cc Renault that>> > doesn't like to go much over 4700
rpms, the intake ports are siamesed, > > the>> > stock manifold runners are
1.100" dia. the diameter of the stock carb> > > throat>> > is 1.259", the
diameter of the SU throat is 1.125". Am I making a big> > > mistake> > going
with the 1-1/8" side draft rather than a 1-1/4" semi> downdraft?> > > Thanks>
> in advance for your responses, I know the highly esteemed members of> this>
> list are of far too high caliber to merely forward along their> > >
desparaging> > and denegrading remarks concerning>
Renaults....................Cheers > > Henry> > Morrison, Cedar Crest, New
Mexico> Check out the Bunce Buck at>> >
http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars>> >
_______________________________________________>> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot>> >
_______________________________________________> >
http://www.team.net/donate.html> >> > Fot mailing list> > Fot at autox.team.net>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot> > > >


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:36:45 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg Lunker Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BB6E9DA1-EF42-4F96-8209-05A1C2C8D499@earthlink.net>

I just happen to have what you need Henry - a pair of 1 1/8s I could  
bring them by your office next week if you like.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM

On Jan 12, 2008, at 12:10 PM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the offer, but as I look at it, I think two of these  
> little guys
> will fit.  Based on the performance of the 948 Sprite with two  
> carbs, I think
> it's the way to go.  Now I just need to fin anothe 1-1/8" side
> draft.........


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sat Jan 12 15:43:32 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
Message-ID: <20080112.154332.2300.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Henry,
That's a very cool project!
The SU sounds like an excellent place to start.
Bill 


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 12 15:59:20 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:59:20 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Part needed - others available.
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
References: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <739D9999-01AB-43AF-994E-C64B6B363D34@earthlink.net>

Hi Gary,
I just went and looked at the plinth you need on a '65 I have. It's a  
bit unusual to me in that it is covered in leather [could be vinyl  
but doesn't look like it]. The covering is shrunk enough to look like  
it was factory done. I've never noticed one covered like this before.  
The underlying plastic looks to be good but one won't know until the  
covering comes off, not to mention the glue attaching it. Let me know  
if this might work for you.
The car it is attached to is destined to be a parts car unless some  
FoT needs a rusty/crusty [by New Mexico standards - needs rockers and  
some floor repair] racer candidate.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:01 PM, GSFuqua1 at aol.com wrote:

> I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of   
> the dash I
> am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various   
> switches,
> cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the old  
> one but it is in
> very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could  help me out?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Fuqua
> Classic Sports Cars
> Branson, MO
> _gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From rjl at gt-classics.com  Sat Jan 12 16:50:01 2008
From: rjl at gt-classics.com (R. John Lye)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Fot] question for SU enthusiasts.
In-Reply-To: <001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
References: <BLU116-W37F226F9D9911DD797CEDD90440@phx.gbl>
	<000401c8554c$a095b3a0$0202a8c0@newcomputer>
	<BLU116-W43C19DBB98DA1CAAD2949990440@phx.gbl>
	<001401c8554f$a0127280$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <E1JDq4m-0005QF-00@pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At 02:16 PM 1/12/2008, Scott Janzen wrote:
>The Bunce Buck is an interesting looking machine and I imagine a bit tail
>happy.  The gallery is fascinating - all sorts of quirky little cars!
>  http://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/H%20Modified%20Cars

Pretty cool, thanks.  I was definitely excited to see the Moretti.
I used to own a Moretti, but a different model than that one.  I'll
bet the Ken Gillanders can tell us some stories from his H-mod
days...


R. John Lye

rjl6n at cstone.net 


From Billbab at mac.com  Sat Jan 12 09:20:49 2008
From: Billbab at mac.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:20:49 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cheap billet cranks a possibility
References: <1200145289.1631.21224.m45@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <5E0BAFE7-7768-4506-A803-9A4E1A068F16@mac.com>

This conversation is going on at the MGVR user group. I don't have the
time to coordinate chasing something like this down, but a $800 billet
crank that was GOOD would be a godsend. If the FOT hooked up with them
it would make the business more attractive for the chinese manufacturer.


Bill Babcock
billb at kenalu.com

www.Kenalu.com -emagazine about SUP Surfing
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog blog about living and playing in Maui
503.936.7660



Begin forwarded message:

> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Date: January 12, 2008 5:41:29 AM PST
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Digest Number 1854
> Reply-To: "No Reply"<notify-dg-MGVR at yahoogroups.com>
>
> MGVR
> Messages In This Digest (7 Messages)
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: wihiii at aol.com
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: edeanbutler
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: Manley.L Ford
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: paul flanery
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft From: mga221
> View All Topics | Create New TopicMessages
> 1a.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:48 am (PST)
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl. and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although
> they look good. He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that
> they could duplicate. I'll ask for references here in the US. If you
> have any other suggestions please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot
> less that the SB crankshafts made in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but
> the quality and the unknown mfg. is the question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote: I do not know anything
> about this company in China, but I can tell you that, for China,
> $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot
> of world class work  and they also do a lot of junk. You have to
> know who you are dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1b.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:54 pm (PST)
>
> UK prices are crazy high. I do a lot of my racing in the UK and am
> familiar
> with UK vs USA prices. A BRM V8 crank in the UK is $10,000. The USA
> price
> for a crank every bit as good is about $3,000. Same for foundry work
> - UK
> prices three to four times USA prices. Just today we needed to have
> a 1959
> Cadillac crankshaft turned - here in the UK, the price was nearly
> $1,000.
> For $100, we will ship a good used crank from the USA instead.
>
> We ship things from the USA to the UK all the time to save money. The
> radiator on my wife's Grand Cherokee jeep recently split a seam. UK
> price
> for a new one was three times the USA price. We shipped one from the
> USA by
> air and still saved one third.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of paul
> flanery
> Sent: 11 January 2008 19:49
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. he sent some pics. of 8
> cyl.
> and 4 cyl. cranks but can't really tell by the pics although they
> look good.
> He asked to send drawings or a sample crank so that they could
> duplicate.
> I'll ask for references here in the US. If you have any other
> suggestions
> please let me know. $850.00 USD is a lot less that the SB
> crankshafts made
> in the UK, in fact 2/3s less, but the quality and the unknown mfg.
> is the
> question.
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I do not know anything about this company in China, but I can tell
> you that,
> for China, $850 would be a very high price. I do a lot of business
> in China,
> and I can assure you $850 FOB would be very high. I would think
> $300FOB more
> realistic in China.
>
> I would also not buy anything as critical as a crankshaft in China
> until you
> KNOW the outfit is doing good work. The Chinese do a lot of world
> class work
> - and they also do a lot of junk. You have to know who you are
> dealing with.
>
> E. Dean Butler
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Sent: 11 January 2008 00:43
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> Has anyone heard anything about steel billet crankshafts being
> manufactured in China for MGA's, etc. I was contacted by a
> BWCrankshaft
> in WuQing Tianjin, China. Supposed to be made out of 4340 billet and
> nitrided. I was quoted a price of $850.00 US dollars that does not
> include shipping. If anyone knows if this is a viable co. or has had
> any dealing with them please let me know.
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1c.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "wihiii at aol.com" wihiii at aol.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:00 pm (PST)
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1d.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "edeanbutler" edeanbutler at yahoo.com   edeanbutler
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:58 pm (PST)
>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1e.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "Manley.L Ford" Manley.L.Ford at trw.com
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:24 pm (PST)
>
> Dean's $1300 is a bit better price than my recent experience - must
> be you have a volume discount, Dean!
> -Manley
>
> >>> "edeanbutler" <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> 1/11/2008 5:04 PM >>>
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively.
> There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot recall what they
> charge
> for an XPAG crank, but I think something like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
> _____
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1f.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "paul flanery" paullflanery at sbcglobal.net   speedraacer
> Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:07 pm (PST)
>
> Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> Paul
>
> edeanbutler <edeanbutler at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I should have said in my last email that we use Moldex almost
> exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable. I cannot
> recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think something
> like $1300.
>
> Dean
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of wihiii at aol.com
> Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
>
> I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG crankshafts.
>
> Bill Hollingsworth
>
> I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race engine.
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
> 1g.
> Re: Steel Billet Crankshaft
> Posted by: "mga221" carndrew at aol.com   mga221
> Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:03 am (PST)
>
> --- In MGVR at yahoogroups.com, paul flanery <paullflanery at ...> wrote:
> >Whitey from Moldex made up a crankshaft for me two years ago. Cost
> was about $1,800. Balanced, nitrited, and counter weights knife edged.
> > Dean, does Moldex mfg. steel billet cranks for the MGA?
> > Paul
> >
> > edeanbutler <edeanbutler at ...> wrote:
> > I should have said in my last email that we use
> Moldex almost exclusively. There work is tops and prices reasonable.
> I cannot recall what they charge for an XPAG crank, but I think
> something like $1300.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > From: MGVR at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MGVR at yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of wihiii at ...
> > Sent: 11 January 2008 20:59
> > To: MGVR at yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MGVR] Steel Billet Crankshaft
> >
> >
> > I will add to this conversaton that Moldex has made XPAG
> crankshafts.
> >
> > Bill Hollingsworth
> >
> > I would not touch a Chinese manufactured crankshaft in a race
> engine.
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >
>
> Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (9)
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From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:11:51 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:11:51 +1000
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081149.NZCK16973.oaamta01sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

Don't be too hasty to condem Chinese products. Its like saying anything
British or US made is junk. We all know there are good and bad.
The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent. They use certified steels and make
the parts on the same CNC machines we use in 1st world nations. 
One of their top end crank manufacturers supplies are large number of
well-known US & Australian performance  firms.  I've looked at their cranks
and rods (which use ARP fastners exclusively), and visually, they are to the
best you would find. I know people here using this firms cranks in 1000hp
nitrous fed drag engines, so they cant be that bad. Being in the engine
trade, we soon work out what is good and what is not. 
Having said all that, if billet cranks are around US$1000, its worth
investigating. 
Terry O'Beirne


From roadandtrack at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 13 01:18:25 2008
From: roadandtrack at bigpond.com (Terry and Cindy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:18:25 +1000
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1200197058.3230.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>

I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
lives and modifications than I care to think about
I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving heaps
of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
this?? 
If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted to
hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily ditch
the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
Thanks a lot
Terry O'Beirne
Australia


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 08:01:27 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:01:27 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Billet Cranks
Message-ID: <39c86405da6c1fe57030e92cb37be5a3@wi.rr.com>

I wouldn't have the time either to take this to orders but I certainly 
would be a customer for a TR6 billet crank.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Sun Jan 13 14:23:51 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:23:51 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>

I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 15:26:13 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:26:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query
References: <20080113081823.PMEA11935.oaamta06sl.mx.bigpond.com@Rat01>
Message-ID: <001201c85633$4ed48310$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

On my GT6 that shaft sits pretty darn close to horizontal. The lower link 
that runs forward to the frame on my car has rod ends, giving me a way to 
adjust castor/toe, as does the inboard end of the lower wishbone (modified 
by being cut short, wtih a nut welded on to thread in a rod end).  Each end 
of the leaf spring has a spherical bearing in it, with tubular spacers to 
locate it on the bolt.  Spring pressure seems to keep the bearing firmly in 
place.
As to the "castor",  my guess is that with the lower locating link pulling 
on the front/bottom of the hub, you may get a little toe-in/positive camber 
action under hard braking or inside wheel lift or vice versa as a result of 
the castor, depending on the arc of all the parts.  Unfortunately with the 
leaf spring as the upper link it's really hard to move the suspension 
through its motions, though I have tried by jacking up the rear end and by 
jacking up one side or the other under the wishbone to mimic suspension 
travel.
Hope this helps - if there is a significant inclination I'd say something is 
off, though those wishbones don't look very bendable.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Terry and Cindy" <roadandtrack at bigpond.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] GT6 rear supension query


> I'm in the process of resurrecting our old race GT6 Mk2 which has had more
> lives and modifications than I care to think about
> I fitted a Mk2 rear end years ago and never really got it finished. I now
> note the lower wishbone pivot shaft (out at the hub), is far from
> horizontal, causing the hub to be twisted back and effectively giving 
> heaps
> of caster . There is no obvious bend in the wishbone, but I don't have
> another MK2 GT6 anywhere near to compare. Can anyone shed some light on
> this??
> If anyone reading this has the PRI rear suspension kit, I'd be delighted 
> to
> hear from them . I have a nice set of SPAX coil-overs and will happily 
> ditch
> the top spring. I'm reviewing the options. Any comments????
> Thanks a lot
> Terry O'Beirne
> Australia
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 13 15:37:21 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:37:21 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <20080113.153722.3916.0.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Very impressed with Castrol SuperClean. Used a predecessor of it 30 years
before it was released that was amazing stuff, as well. Keep it off your
skin. Do not breath a mist of it. Always amazed how well it worked on my
TR- 8 Alloys. Even when they didn't look all that dirty, a quick spray
and hosing off with cold water brightened them right up.
Never got to play with an ultrasonic cleaner. Pure water should be very
effective with that. Would use the purple stuff with caution in the US
unit.
Bill 


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 17:00:59 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:00:59 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <000601c85640$8b9124e0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, I use a product from McMaster-Carr, Cleveland, OH. 330 995-5500
www.mcmaster.com
It's Solvent-plus-lanolin formula, pn 3229K1 at about $45.00 for 5 gallons.
It doesn't tear up your hands or parts. It also comes in a High-flash- point
formula for a few extra bucks. It appears to be made by Graymills, who do a
lot with cleaning supplies. I use it in a small parts washer, not US. The
parts go directly in it.
M-C is a very good company to do business with. Their catalog is 3600 pages.
They ship quickly and reasonably. Lots of good products.
I  have no financial interest in them; just very satisfied with their
products and service.
Hope this helps,
Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  Vintage TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charly Mitchel" <charly at mitchelplumbing.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:23 PM
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with
an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone
been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you
can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with
it.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From srcypher at mac.com  Sun Jan 13 17:12:17 2008
From: srcypher at mac.com (Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer))
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:12:17 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
Message-ID: <57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>

> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover  
> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow  
> dry.
>
> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a  
> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>
> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear  
> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple  
> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>
> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the  
> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath  
> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer  
> to monitor temps
>
> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>
> Thanks
> -S
>
> Scott Cypher
> SCCA # 362573
> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially  
>> with an
>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>> cleaner?
>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different  
>> applications?
>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has  
>> anyone been
>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode  
>> the
>> aluminum?
>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or  
>> if you can
>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting  
>> with it.
>> Charly Mitchel
>> TR6 #44
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 13 17:33:07 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:33:07 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>

Terry and Cindy wrote:

> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.

Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
heading for a moon landing within the decade.

Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
to develop a sense of aesthetics.

Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
Chinese, US or otherwise.

Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.


_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan 13 20:57:18 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <015201c8562a$980579d0$0602a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <646804.54708.qm@web81712.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Bio-diesel is my new favorite parts cleaner.  It is a bit passive - if you can let it soak for a few hours you will be amazed.  I don't think that it is harmful to the user - may end up smelling like your local chinese restaurant though.
   
  Dennis DeLap
   
  

Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com> wrote:
  I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
ultrasonic cleaner.
Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
cleaner?
What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results. Has anyone been
using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
What are you using on aluminum parts? Something that won't corrode the
aluminum?
Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you can
put the parts directly in the tank.
I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sun Jan 13 21:43:49 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:43:49 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Rod Stretch
Message-ID: <13987d670ee723c60ddc7e1f9e95e69c@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

Anyone have knowledge of how much stretch there is with a TR6 
rod/piston assembly at 7000 RPM and beyond? I'm down to my gasket 
thickness (.028) and need about .020 to get to my CR goal.

Allen

P.S.
I can just imagine what Bill Dentinger will have to say about the 
"Subject" title above!


Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From kaskas at cox.net  Sun Jan 13 21:50:10 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fwd:  Cleaning parts
References: <C310BCF0-5180-483D-9173-0AAC1780AA27@mac.com>
	<57F04909-72BE-4982-B289-39886638E1DB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <010b01c85668$f12d8960$d214c548@RW>

I used and still use lacquer thinner as a cleaning agent.  Have it in a 
squirt bottle. Cleans like crazy and dries quickly.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Cypher (SpitfireRacer)" <srcypher at mac.com>
To: "Friends" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: [Fot] Fwd: Cleaning parts


>> If its a stainless basin, mineral spirits with a polypropylene cover
>> to keep evaporation in control; then an isopropyl rinse, then blow
>> dry.
>>
>> If you only have a single part or two, you can put the solvent in a
>> Pyrex beaker in a water bath
>>
>> I was using zep industrial purple for a while; but it seemed to wear
>> out pretty fast; good for a quick etch of aluminum, though...simple
>> green wasnt very good on heavily grunged up parts.
>>
>> The more of the heavy dirt/grease you get off before you usonic the
>> better.  I usually  toothbrush/wirebrush periodically; let the bath
>> sit off for a while if it gets too hot; use a dial probe thermometer
>> to monitor temps
>>
>> Acetone is worthless for trying to clean oil/grease
>>
>> Thanks
>> -S
>>
>> Scott Cypher
>> SCCA # 362573
>> #57 HP Spitfire 1500
>> Spitfireracer at xsmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Charly Mitchel <charly at mitchelplumbing.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially
>>> with an
>>> ultrasonic cleaner.
>>> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
>>> cleaner?
>>> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different
>>> applications?
>>> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has
>>> anyone been
>>> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
>>> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode
>>> the
>>> aluminum?
>>> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or
>>> if you can
>>> put the parts directly in the tank.
>>> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting
>>> with it.
>>> Charly Mitchel
>>> TR6 #44
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 13 23:38:12 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>

Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]


From wensley_Tr at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 06:58:47 2008
From: wensley_Tr at comcast.net (Craig)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Fot] cheap billet cranks
References: <BLU127-W2633432C4B6D1A763C9F628C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00c301c856b5$962251c0$0200a8c0@Desktop>

Did you say you drove the Tr


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] cheap billet cranks


> Terry and Cindy wrote:
> 
>> The top-end Chinese stuff is excellent.
> 
> Agreed.  Remember, the Chinese put a man in space
> not long ago in a very advanced platform, and are
> heading for a moon landing within the decade.
> 
> Their automobile industry has gone from almost zero
> to producing fine vehicles, every bit as good as the
> best that the US can mass-manufacture.  They do need
> to develop a sense of aesthetics.
> 
> Having said that, I would NOT want to be first in line
> for a billet crank, until the manufacturer has demonstrated
> their worth.  But this comment applies to any manufacturer,
> Chinese, US or otherwise.
> 
> Shane Ingate, went 4-wheelin' today in the Duramax, in NM.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 07:34:08 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:34:08 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <c26.27c09ed9.34bccce0@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/13/2008 3:26:01 PM Central Standard Time, 
charly at mitchelplumbing.com writes:


> I have a lot of thoughts about cleaning parts in my shop especially with an
> ultrasonic cleaner.
> Does anyone have any experiences with clean parts using an ultrasonic
> cleaner?
> What kind of cleaning solution are you using for different applications?
> I've been trying dishwashing detergent with decent results.  Has anyone been
> using Simple Green or the purple stuff? Or what are you using?
> What are you using on aluminum parts?  Something that won't corrode the
> aluminum?
> Anybody have any idea if you need to keep everything in a basket or if you 
> can
> put the parts directly in the tank.
> I've just acquired a ultrasonic cleaner and have been experimenting with it.
> Charly Mitchel
> 

Charly...

No experience  with an ultrasonic cleaner in the shop (we've got the old 
fashioned squirt gun type), but I have one for my dentures.  Works great.  Much 
better than soaking with those pellets.

Bill (Damdinger)



**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 08:00:30 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:00:30 EST
Subject: [Fot] Fting brake discs?
Message-ID: <d54.204df23e.34bcd30e@aol.com>

Amici, 
To tap the wellspring of knowledge here,  What's the idea behind the floating 
brake discs as seen on high end racecars?  To reduce heat transfer to the 
hubs?  Make alighnment less critical?  Enquiring minds wanna know...Steve



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From jeff_durant at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 10:12:28 2008
From: jeff_durant at comcast.net (jeff_durant at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:12:28 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <1332583019-1200330919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1729101526-@bxe122.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jim,
I've used different motorcycle fork oil weights over the years and found 40 wt. works well in my street TR250.  Heavier for the TR6 racer.  If your seals are weak, you will blow them out however.  I believe Apple Hydralics sells uprated seals suitable for heavier weight fluid.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
#12 TR6 
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "jim hearn" <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:38:12 
To:"'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RKramer at rdoequipment.com  Mon Jan 14 10:20:19 2008
From: RKramer at rdoequipment.com (Kramer, Robert)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:20:19 -0600
Subject: [Fot] ZDDPlus info
Message-ID: <950AB6865A0BD9408E0EEFE42B2118820C0F58E2@RDOEXCHG.rdoe.com>

I have received a sample bottle, information flyers and Dealer pricing
for ZDDPlus that was talked about on the list last week. If anyone would
like a pdf of the flyers send me an email and I'll send it to you. The
product lists for $9.95 for a 4 ounze bottle  which is good for one oil
change.

Bob Kramer
Sales Manager
RDO Equipment Co.
16415 North IH 35
Pflugerville, TX 78660
512-272-4141
Fx 512-272-9365


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Mon Jan 14 11:41:05 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:41:05 EST
Subject: [Fot] FRANK LAND Quick Change Rear End   -  IRS    ????
Message-ID: <c83.1b4b4429.34bd06c1@cs.com>

FoT,

I am going to be looking at a quick change rear that I have acquired.  It is 
an IRS style with TR-250 modified axles attached to it.

I have no plans for it, but wanted to look it over and learn something from 
it.  

Does anyone have specific knowledge of these rear ends? I did find a website.

Thanks!  Joe A   </HTML>


From WEmery7451 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:10:54 2008
From: WEmery7451 at aol.com (WEmery7451 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:10:54 EST
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:

<< Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be  functio
nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?  Thanks
, Jim in Sacramento >>

We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 40
or 50 weight.
**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
shape.
     http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 20:43:47 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:43:47 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <c14.2ce5e333.34bd0dbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00bc01c8565f$abf4fb20$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for
solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used
widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why
don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it
produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable.
Steve P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <WEmery7451 at aol.com>
To: <jimhearn1 at comcast.net>; <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


> In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes:
>
> << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
functio
> nal rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement  oil?
Thanks
> , Jim in Sacramento >>
>
> We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
40
> or 50 weight.
> **************
> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
>      http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:51:28 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:51:28 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
Message-ID: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>

I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly 12
years.
Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around the
house.

I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
bio-diesel is
2 hours away from me.  Sigh.

Shane Ingate in remote NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From westerneagleracing at att.net  Mon Jan 14 13:18:15 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:18:15 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <011420082018.15125.478BC3870006F01600003B1522218683269B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

Good questions.  Does anyone have the answers and the availablity.  I would use it too.  The smell is so much a part of the 60's racing.  I last used it in my 64 Lotus Elan in the late 60's.
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>: -------------- 


> Does the Castrol vegetable based oil contain the desirable zinc levels for 
> solid lifter engines? I would imagine so, since it was developed and used 
> widely for racing engines when solid lifters were the norm. By the way, why 
> don't we use it still in our crankcases? I used to love the smell it 
> produced, and would use it now if it was available and acceptable. 
> Steve P. 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
> To: ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:10 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks 
> 
> 
> > In a message dated 1/13/08 10:39:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> > jimhearn1 at comcast.net writes: 
> > 
> > << Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be 
> functio 
> > nal rear racing shocks? If so, what is the suggested replacement oil? 
> Thanks 
> > , Jim in Sacramento >> 
> > 
> > We use the Castrol vegetable oil so that the seals did not deteriorate -- 
> 40 
> > or 50 weight. 
> > ************** 
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in 
> > shape. 
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> > 
> > Fot mailing list 
> > Fot at autox.team.net 
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 13 21:24:17 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:24:17 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
Steve P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
12
> years.
> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
the
> house.
>
> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>
> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From RYoung at navcomtech.com  Mon Jan 14 14:26:37 2008
From: RYoung at navcomtech.com (Young Randall)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com>
	<00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl>
	<138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F>
	<BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BACA7A44C455E643B273353F0159C5C902F1DF6381@ENAMB1.jdnet.deere.com>

> Problem
> is, the nearest
> bio-diesel is
> 2 hours away from me.

There's bound to be a greasy spoon nearer than that ... beg their french-fry
grease then setup a converter in your garage.

Randall

fdpnmailgwapp1.dpn.deere.com made the following annotations
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From tedtsimx at bright.net  Mon Jan 14 14:40:58 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (Ted Schumacher)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:58 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c85678$094a07d0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of 
up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From spitfiresuz at 141.com  Mon Jan 14 14:55:00 2008
From: spitfiresuz at 141.com (spitfiresuz at 141.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>

Hi all!

Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
good ole' USA!

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
-event-picture-thread.html

I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
into other cars:

"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."

What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(

Keep Triumphing,
Susan    :)


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Mon Jan 14 15:01:20 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:01:20 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile solvents
as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the localized
surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature 5000degrees F.
With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in this type of
cleaner.
The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous solvents
for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks and
crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is scraped of
first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good degreaser and
wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that Simple
green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also wondering if
tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
<fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for
in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a
good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it
in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
> > I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
nearly
> 12
> > years.
> > Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
carbs.
> > It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
around
> the
> > house.
> >
> > I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
nearest
> > bio-diesel is
> > 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
> >
> > Shane Ingate in remote NM
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > Fot mailing list
> > Fot at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Lunkercars at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 15:20:26 2008
From: Lunkercars at earthlink.net (Greg "Lunker" Hilyer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:20:26 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
In-Reply-To: <005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
	<005a01c856f8$ff80ac00$1b02a8c0@workstation3>
Message-ID: <5472DE90-6E74-4C4C-880F-D5DDB0420A37@earthlink.net>

One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
**Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
the trick.
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
TR4 #314
Albuquerque NM
On Jan 14, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Charly Mitchel wrote:

> With ultrasonic cleaners, you have to be very careful of volatile  
> solvents
> as to the chance of ignition.  The cavitations of the fluid at the  
> localized
> surface of the part or item cleaning can reach a temperature  
> 5000degrees F.
> With that in mind, flammable liquid could be explosive using in  
> this type of
> cleaner.
> The beauty of the US cleaning system is the non-use of hazardous  
> solvents
> for degreasing and the lack of need for scrubbing the parts as the US
> creates a kind of effervescent action and get into the unseen nooks  
> and
> crannies.  US works the best if the majority of the grease is  
> scraped of
> first before immersing in the cleaner.  I'm looking for a good  
> degreaser and
> wondering if anyone else has tried this process.  It appears that  
> Simple
> green or other types of citric cleaner may work well.  I'm also  
> wondering if
> tri sodium phosphate (tsp) would be effective.
> Charly Mitchel
> TR6 #44
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
> To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph"
> <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is  
>> called for
> in
>> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user  
>> friendly, a
> good
>> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also  
>> burn it
> in
>> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
>> Steve P.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>>
>>
>>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for
> nearly
>> 12
>>> years.
>>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten
> carbs.
>>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus
> around
>> the
>>> house.
>>>
>>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the
> nearest
>>> bio-diesel is
>>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>>
>>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>>
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html? 
> ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From standardtriumph at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 14 15:22:31 2008
From: standardtriumph at btinternet.com (John Macartney)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:22:31 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
References: <1197928641.20941@paypal.com><00dc01c853b0$437d1700$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W176FF1934EF9262301FFE38C4A0@phx.gbl><011b01c853c1$d6669620$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W5F4BD1002FCA662614DD68C4A0@phx.gbl><138f01c856d4$d0d49f70$6500a8c0@YOURDA1828A45F><BLU127-W117B598BFCD6E0CB07ED5F8C460@phx.gbl>
	<001601c85665$543d0570$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <016b01c856fb$f4cf3760$0201a8c0@Bevan>

Ordinary pump diesel is also an excellent parts cleaner. Slightly different number on the Redwood 
scale but just as effective as paraffin (kero)

Jonmac

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>; "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts


>I use kerosene, or paraffin as the English call it. Its use is called for in
> all the manuals from the time, and it actually is very user friendly, a good
> grease cutter, easy on the hands, reusable and economical. I also burn it in
> my garage heater with an additive that reduces odor.
> Steve P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shane Ingate" <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Cleaning parts
>
>
>> I have used Simple Green (and elbow grease) with great success for nearly
> 12
>> years.
>> Both squirt bottle and large parts washer.  It is useless on rotten carbs.
>> It is gentle on the hands, smells OK, and can be used by the missus around
> the
>> house.
>>
>> I like the idea of using bio-diesel as a cleaner.  Problem is, the nearest
>> bio-diesel is
>> 2 hours away from me.  Sigh.
>>
>> Shane Ingate in remote NM
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From BillDentin at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 15:36:44 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:36:44 EST
Subject: [Fot] Cleaning parts
Message-ID: <cf7.26654838.34bd3dfc@aol.com>

In a message dated 01/14/2008 4:23:35 PM Central Standard Time, 
Lunkercars at earthlink.net writes:


> One of my wackier unused ideas, but I actually think it worth a try -  
> Tabasco Sauce!! Ever noticed what it will do to a penny? Or a cast  
> iron frying pan? Or your stomach lining? If someone runs with the  
> idea, markets it, and makes a million, remember where the idea came  
> from and just give me a fair cut - I promise to give 1/2 to the FoT.
> **Disclaimer** While Tabasco has plenty of alkaline vinegar, I also  
> has copious amounts of acidic salt. DO NOT try to degrease the  
> underside of your car with it unless you need to duplicate the  
> original rusty patina. For parts, a immediate water rinse should do  
> the trick.
> 

Absolutely.  Vinegar is acid.  I logged over 45 years in the masonry 
business.  The state of Wisconsin will not allow you to wash fresh face brick work 
with acid.  A solvent made from 10% muriatic acid and 90% water is the 
traditional wash down used by mason contractors for washing fresh brickwork.  And used 
properly by professionals it works just fine.  But the state would not let you 
use it on their buildings.  You have to use 'similar' to remove mortar smears, 
so on state jobs we used to use vinegar in a spray bottle.  When inspectors 
used to ask, "Hey what the heck is that stuff you're using?", my guys used to 
spray it in their own  mouths, and answer, "It's nothing that will hurt me and 
it won't hurt a brick wall either."

Bill Dentinger.
    


**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From dave at microworks.net  Mon Jan 14 16:44:51 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
References: <380-22008111421550100@M2W040.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <20080114235016.YDMZ18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The rules are fantastic.  Worth reading the site just for them

At 02:55 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car
>and all that?  Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the
>good ole' USA!
>
>http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/
>
>And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures):
>http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official
>-event-picture-thread.html
>
>I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the
>car!  And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running
>into other cars:
>
>"This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator
>for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone."
>
>What fun!!  Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast.  :(
>
>Keep Triumphing,
>Susan    :)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application
>hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From sean.green at seawestproducts.com  Mon Jan 14 16:58:45 2008
From: sean.green at seawestproducts.com (Sean Green)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:58:45 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.145.1200349227.3220.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <478BF735.3020906@seawestproducts.com>

I gave up on lever shocks a few years ago on my TR-6 that I use for 
autocross. I switched to a single adjustable SPAX shock (available in a 
conversion kit from RevingtonTR in the UK) and liked that a little 
better. They lasted about a season before I had to replace them. The 
shock I'm using now is an Ohlins double adjustable. It's a very good 
unit. I was finally able to tame the car with those. They are on the 
expensive side, about $800 each, but I think they're worth it. There 
will be a pair in the front too when I finish my restoration.

-Sean Green
71 Triumph TR-6


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 14 18:32:09 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:32:09 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>

FoT Brain Trust,

I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I 
wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would 
fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new 
cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in 
the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member 
approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good 
starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 21:19:05 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <478BD6EA.3070602@bright.net>
Message-ID: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>

Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schumacher [mailto:tedtsimx at bright.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:41 PM
To: jim hearn
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks

jim hearn wrote:
> Is it possible that the stock lever shocks with firmer fluid can be
> functional rear racing shocks?  If so, what is the suggested
replacement
> oil?  Thanks, Jim in Sacramento
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which
had a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Jim, the lever shock will work. You can make it firmer  as has been 
suggested with valving and heavy shock fluid. We do sell heavy duty 
rebuilt levers. But,  lever shocks cannot recover from a rapid series of

up/down movements. These cause the oil to foam so there  is limited 
damping action.   Tube shocks do not have this problem. Ted

-- 
Ted Schumacher
tedtsimx at bright.net
http://www.tsimportedautomotive.com
108 S. Jefferson St.
Pandora, Ohio, USA 45877
Fax: 419.384.3272 (24 Hrs.)
Phone: 800.543.6648 (US & Canada)
Tech/ Gen. Information/ Worldwide: 419.384.3022


From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 14 21:33:39 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:33:39 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000501c8572d$c41b08b0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <478C37A3.3040505@bradakis.com>

We have a customer who's restoring an MGC.  Powder coated this,
that and the other.  Lever shocks, or at least the seals and oil within,
do not stand up well to the heat of curing.  Too bad he didn't just ask
us first!

mjb.


From triosan at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 22:21:53 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:21:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
In-Reply-To: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
References: <9903f723301f9106223613e5b5f8e9ea@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801142121ua2f9bd0re56ead7e0c03b7b7@mail.gmail.com>

Allen,
Did not get to the car tonight -- can you believe it snowed in Seattle and
my storage/garage is 20 miles to the east [more snow].  Should be sunny and
warmer tomorrow so I will get you your brake information.

As to the fuel cell -- the best I have seen is how Tony Garmey built
supports to hold a cell in John James's TR4.  He welded triangular plates to
the roll bar extensions that extended to the bolts on the sides of the
cell.  He then bolted the cell to the plates.  His boss flipped a car with a
cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
over can be real vicious.  I was doing corner work this summer when an RX7
rolled twice sidewards then once end to end.  IT was amazing how much stuff
tore loose.  Very lucky driver given that he ended up upside down,
unconscious, and the muffler had punctured the fuel cell setting it on
fire.  He was lucky because the rear of the car was downhill from him so
flames went away.  And he was directly in front of a corner station.  It was
also amazing to see the skill of the track saftey workers as they cut him
loose from the belts, worked him sidewards and got him out the pasenger
side.  The driver did suffer a mild concussion, a broken arm and smoke
inhalation [the latter being the most serious long term problem].  Still in
all, the safety cage, belts and Hans did there job admirably well.

On Jan 14, 2008 5:32 PM, Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:

> FoT Brain Trust,
>
> I'm replacing the original (unknown brand) fuel cell in the TR6. I
> wanted to change the filler neck but couldn't find anything that would
> fit. I'm looking for guidance as to how to attach and protect the new
> cell (Fuel Safe). The old one was simply strapped to the sheet metal in
> the trunk with SS straps. There is a square tubular cross member
> approximately 3" below the trunk sheet metal which could be a good
> starting point. Any help and experience would be most appreciated.
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold


From neil at revingtontr.com  Tue Jan 15 03:04:18 2008
From: neil at revingtontr.com (Neil Revington)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:04:18 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed
In-Reply-To: <ca0.2229a561.34b94136@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A25F038AB31F4048A89F8F247A4733F1153BD5@server-sbs.RevingtonTR.local>

We keep this part in thin fibreglass under the original part number of
706882
The black gel coat is indistinguishable from the original plastic part
See
Cheers


Neil Revington
Revington TR,
Home Farm,
Middlezoy,
Somerset, TA7 0PD.
England
Tel:- +44(0)1823 698437
Fax:- +44(0)1823 698109
email:- neil at revingtontr.com
web: www.revingtontr.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+neil=revingtontr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
GSFuqua1 at aol.com
Sent: 11 January 2008 22:01
To: fot at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net
Subject: [Fot] Part Needed

I am nearing completion of a 64 Concours TR 4.  The one piece of  the
dash I am in desperate need of is the Plinth that houses the various
switches, cables, etc.  The plastic part.  Moss # 633-400  I have  the
old one but it is in very bad shape.  Anyone have something that could
help me out?

Thanks,

Gary Fuqua
Classic Sports Cars
Branson, MO
_gsfuqua1 at aol.com_ (mailto:gsfuqua1 at aol.com)



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From GRMTim at aol.com  Tue Jan 15 10:53:57 2008
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:53:57 EST
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <d41.1f82e080.34be4d35@aol.com>

We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.

Here's the official release.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040

The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
series.

LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
appeal, and
implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.

The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
coverage
than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
least
expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
and
affordable competition.

"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
budget-conscious
prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
like this in real life."

After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."

As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
testament
to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."

With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
and
new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
than
available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.





**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.

http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:44:40 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:44:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Fuel Cell Mounting
Message-ID: <BLU127-W2840BE6DA96119469A9EAE8C470@phx.gbl>

Chuck Arnold wrote:

> As to the fuel cell...  His boss flipped a car with a
> cell in it once, and the cell tore loose from he kind of straps you have.
> They really need to be bolted tight with no slack in the claping.  A roll
> over can be real vicious.

Great balls of fire, Batman!  Thats one area that I figured that if I
engineered  it better than stock, it should be good to go, but this has
given me grounds for pause.

In my setup (impossible to see in the next pic)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3911/2002/1600/FuelSafe.jpg
I borrowed a trick from the bolt-in rollbar crowd and sandwiched
the sheet metal holding the braces between 1/4" steel thick strapping.
I'm no-longer convinced that this will prevent 150 lbs of cell and fuel
from wanting to leave it's cosy little home during a hard roll.

Thinking cap on!

Shane Ingate, retreating to his Batcave, in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:48:33 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:48:33 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Re fuel cell mounting in a TR
Message-ID: <BLU127-W1368BD1EE17A197BCBDE8F8C470@phx.gbl>

Sorry.  Senior moment.  3/8" thick steel strapping, not 1.4".

Shane


_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M
ediaCtr_bigscreen_012008


From koblinger at verizon.net  Tue Jan 15 12:27:22 2008
From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:27:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>

I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount. 

Cheers,
Kurt O. (running for cover)


>From: GRMTim at aol.com
>Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!

>We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have entered one
>of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>
>Here's the official release.
>
>Tim Suddard
>Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>www.classicmotorsports.net
>www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>
>The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots Motorsports is
>now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest endurance-race
>series.
>
>LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on creativity,
>appeal, and
>implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid is made
>up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do their best
>to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long endurance race,
>a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>
>The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>metastized into a national series with thousands of participants and more
>coverage
>than most professional racing groups-has been called the most entertaining,
>least
>expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a natural fit
>with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten focus on fun
>and
>affordable competition.
>
>"LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first-timers to
>seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in his best
>PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>budget-conscious
>prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course nobody talks
>like this in real life."
>
>After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From searching for
>raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the hours leading
>up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for speed,
>shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>
>As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons events with
>celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island Concours
>founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced automotive
>professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>testament
>to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement as I am."
>
>With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap penalties,
>and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the best yet.
>Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has sold out
>and
>new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more applicants
>than
>available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an enthusiastic base of
>returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY racers. By
>teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours of LeMons
>plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>**************
>Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>
>http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>_______________________________________________
>http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>Fot mailing list
>Fot at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From westerneagleracing at att.net  Tue Jan 15 13:51:18 2008
From: westerneagleracing at att.net (westerneagleracing at att.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:51:18 +0000
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
Message-ID: <011520082051.29128.478D1CC60001A75C000071C822228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF990E04D2069D@att.net>

If you want to get a little extra use out of your $500.00 car, Martin Swig puts on the annual Double 500 - 500k of beautiful norther California roads in a car that can't cost more than $500.00
Ron Jacobs
Western Eagle Racing
-------------- Original message from "spitfiresuz at 141.com" <spitfiresuz at 141.com>: -------------- 


> Hi all! 
> 
> Just burning to compete but can't afford to get over there with your car 
> and all that? Now you can run the 24 Hours of LeMons right here in the 
> good ole' USA! 
> 
> http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/ 
> 
> And here is a good representative forums link (with pictures): 
> http://forums.focaljet.com/road-rally-auto-x/529197-24-hours-lemons-official 
> -event-picture-thread.html 
> 
> I LOVE that a penalty was having a pair of training wheels welded to the 
> car! And that they have a very inventive way to keep drivers from running 
> into other cars: 
> 
> "This car later got penalized with a panel of spikes welded to the radiator 
> for driving wrecklessly. If he bumped anything, his radiator was gone." 
> 
> What fun!! Too bad we're nowhere near the west coast. :( 
> 
> Keep Triumphing, 
> Susan :) 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft. Windows. and Linux web and application 
> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting 
> _______________________________________________ 
> http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> Fot mailing list 
> Fot at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Tue Jan 15 14:31:05 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:31:05 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
Message-ID: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>

I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
Nordschleife.
I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 640
oil.
You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to move
it.

A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
them from time to time.

Cheers
Chris


    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim


From trmarty at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 17:55:18 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:55:18 -0500
Subject: [Fot] FOT short one friend
In-Reply-To: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
References: <011520082056.24603.478D1E1200053FF20000601B2206999735970A0404070A0C020E0B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BAY123-W42837029B3DFEB13E332F1BA400@phx.gbl>

Sorry to report fellow FOT Ed Ceilley passed away yesterday. Lost his battle
with the big C. Richardson Funeral Home in Cedar Falls Iowa is handling the
arrangements and services will be this Saturday at St. Patrick's church in
Cedar Falls Iowa at 10:30.  Keep Yvonne in your thoughts.

Marty Sukey

_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008


From tr4.tony at virgin.net  Wed Jan 16 01:35:13 2008
From: tr4.tony at virgin.net (TR4Tony)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:35:13 -0000
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
Message-ID: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>

Hi

I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - you can 
set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. These 
are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.

Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and give me 
24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the top of 
the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.

I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good results 
on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough surfaces 
(where the car struggles generally).

A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the MGB) 
and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good and FIA 
legal.

Regards

Tony


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks


>I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
> Nordschleife.
> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and EP 
> 640
> oil.
> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to 
> move
> it.
>
> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. Retighten
> them from time to time.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>
>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Wed Jan 16 05:46:44 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:46:44 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
In-Reply-To: <001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
References: <4E3D0760518943CCB9FE9BE647B76204@Mobil>
	<001001c8581a$b67eb3d0$0ab5a8c0@PBA.INT>
Message-ID: <8acf727aef083b5c8526f82ebb0214de@wi.rr.com>

World Wide Auto sells a modified lever arm shock that has an adjuster 
valve built in. Contact: http://www.nosimport.com/?

Allen

On Jan 16, 2008, at 2:35 AM, TR4Tony wrote:

> Hi
>
> I used twin valve lever arm shocks (DAS9) type on my TR4 rally car - 
> you can
> set the bump / rebound rate by varying the shim depth of the valves. 
> These
> are fantastic and a straight bolt on mod, but pretty hard to find.
>
> Now im running a set of adjustable DAS9's (which are hyper rare) and 
> give me
> 24 settings via a big brass knob (which I had to cut a notch in the 
> top of
> the chassis leg to accommodate). These are just fantastic.
>
> I use a similar oil mix to Chris, perhaps a little lighter with good 
> results
> on tarmac but still not as good as telescopics on loose or rough 
> surfaces
> (where the car struggles generally).
>
> A lot of guys over here run the DAS10 adjustable shocks (used on the 
> MGB)
> and modify the chassis of the car as necessary .... again very good 
> and FIA
> legal.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marx Christian tr4-racing" <chris at tr4-racing.de>
> To: <fot at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Lever versus tube shocks
>
>
>> I use lever shocks at my race car and they do well on the very bumpy
>> Nordschleife.
>> I upgraded them with heavy lathe gearbox oil a mixture of EP 320 and 
>> EP
>> 640
>> oil.
>> You can't remove the air from the shocks without using a long lever to
>> move
>> it.
>>
>> A trouble free unit but you have take car of the bolts and nuts. 
>> Retighten
>> them from time to time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>    Ted, is there a particular fluid that resists foaming?  Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Thu Jan 17 05:52:26 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
Message-ID: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>

Dateline Atlanta....

Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.

Joe A
Enroute to Florida
Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 17 06:53:12 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:53:12 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Richard Taylor TR4 #196
In-Reply-To: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
References: <32371E4F.474E4B8D.00159EE9@cs.com>
Message-ID: <ae072ea28db9c9ff5f249e68aa7d4cf9@wi.rr.com>

Great to have another Architect in the group. Welcome Richard.
What kind of car?

Allen - AIA
On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:52 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> Dateline Atlanta....
>
> Following intense discussions at the Offices of Richard Taylor, AIA
> Richard will be with us at Watkins Glen in September.
>
> Joe A
> Enroute to Florida
> Snowed in Atlanta last night...hope FL is better.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From twakeman at razzolink.com  Thu Jan 17 07:32:32 2008
From: twakeman at razzolink.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:32:32 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Looking for SU HD8
Message-ID: <478F6700.4030205@razzolink.com>

I have a friend who dropped a cylinder head with intake & carb attached 
on the carb.

Does anyone have a single SU HD8 on a shelf gathering dust that they are 
willing to sell?  Ted?

It is a single carb off a Rover six cylinder engine but was used on Jags 
& performance big Healeys & the likes.

Speaking of which I don't supose anyone has a good condition 3L Rover 
six from a P4 sitting around being used as a door stop?

TeriAnn


From spitlist at cox.net  Fri Jan 18 12:04:57 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:04:57 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Fw: Engine Bearings
Message-ID: <002301c85a05$0467b1a0$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

I just got this message and thought it might be interesting to Spitfire owners
on the list.

Joe C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Basil Adams
To: spitlist at cox.net
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:46 AM
Subject: Engine Bearings


I just had a customer (a large supplier of British parts) tell me that
Spitfire engine bearings have become scarce.  I wondered why someone bought 24
sets of old-stock Vandervells from me recently.  If you want to let your
members know, I have more available for both the small journal and 1500cc
Spitfires.  Thanks.  Basil


From pvucinic at netspace.net.au  Sat Jan 19 03:28:49 2008
From: pvucinic at netspace.net.au (Peter Vucinic)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:28:49 +1100
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>

Dear Listers,

 

I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little softer
/ with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get enough heat
into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too aggressive
on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street use
would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and slotted
rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I just
need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.  

 

Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake booster,
STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
Lining Material are you using on the Shoes? 

 

Any input will be gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks all.

 

 

Kind Regards

Peter Vucinic

TR-4

_____________________________________________

Fot mailing list

Fot at autox.team.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 08:00:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
Message-ID: <98e93157ba13340fc2dd75ea8e144eef@wi.rr.com>

Peter,

You can make the back brakes work harder for you by changing the rear 
wheel cylinders to a larger bore. Use the Morgan cylinders which you 
can get through British Parts Northwest http://www.bpnorthwest.com/ . I 
believe that they list these as a performance upgrade for TR4's and 
TR6's. I have Ted Schumaker line my rear shoes with kevlar material 
which works well. This setup makes you more aware of the rear brakes 
working for you as the tail of the car will dance a bit under heavy 
braking.

Allen

On Jan 19, 2008, at 4:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a little 
> softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get 
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too 
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for street 
> use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and 
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I 
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake 
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand / Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 09:24:30 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:24:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Brake Shoe Lining Material
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAALQta4iIIYFIsl7FtScKZNTCgAAAEAAAAJaAG7G2zElLhkHfmNUj0S0BAAAAAA==@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <92E20A28-BFF3-4716-B5B6-286358AD4A26@earthlink.net>

Another option that sounds more pricey is to call "Carbotech."  They  
can reccommend a material and reline your pads / shoes.  Thing is,  
you have to turn the drums / discs to get the old material off and  
then bed the brakes.  Shoes / Pads ran me $280  They have many  
available friction materials available.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/index.html



~Steve


On Jan 19, 2008, at 2:28 AM, Peter Vucinic wrote:

> Dear Listers,
>
>
>
> I am looking at relining my Brake Shoe Material to something a  
> little softer
> / with a bit more bite! I just don't believe that I can ever get  
> enough heat
> into the shoes during normal use to enable a 'race' type material to
> perform. It's just overkill and is leading to 'only adequate' braking
> performance. However, I need to select a material that is not too  
> aggressive
> on my Alfin Style Brake Drums. Something that is suitable for  
> street use
> would be preferable. I have 4 Spot Calipers with cross drilled and  
> slotted
> rotors up front, so this end of the car works fine. So, I believe I  
> just
> need to find that right balance using a different shoe lining  
> material.
>
>
>
> Therefore I ask the question of those running TR4's with NO brake  
> booster,
> STD diameter/width drums and STD slave Cylinders. What Brand /  
> Grade of
> Lining Material are you using on the Shoes?
>
>
>
> Any input will be gratefully accepted.
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Peter Vucinic
>
> TR-4
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Fot mailing list
>
> Fot at autox.team.net
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 19 18:27:46 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
Message-ID: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>

Hi gang, here are a couple of questions that are pretty basic but  
very important.  also, its hard to find the answers in the books.
here goes...

Question 1: crank end float.  Is this measurement to be taken on both  
sides of the center main cap?
Should I push the crank all the way one direction and then measure  
the gap, then do the other side?  or..  should I position the crank  
in the middle and see that the gap is equal on both sides?


Question 2:  Should I torque the main cap bolts to the recommended  
90lbs?  or do you guys go a little higher for racing?


Thanks!

~Steve


From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:17:07 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:17:07 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
In-Reply-To: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>

I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
a decent one will be worth it.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Jan 19 19:27:03 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Server notes
Message-ID: <4792B177.4050004@bradakis.com>

Gee, meant to add this to the message I just sent regarding
crank end float.  My servers are under attack from bad guys
again, perhaps the same group from Brazil that got me a few
years ago.  I'm hoping there will be no interruptions of the
various Team.Net services, but if things go away for a few
hours while I shuffle stuff around, update or whatever
don't worry too much.  I'll have it all fixed by Feb. 23rd,
the night of  the Beach Party!  More on that later.

Why is it that the bad guys seem to have more time to
propagate their mischief than the good guys have time
to control it?  Sometimes I do wonder why I keep
doing this, sigh.

Anyway, just a heads up.

mjb.


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan 19 21:07:52 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:07:52 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
Message-ID: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>

So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
and recycled the catalog.
 
Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
and they have no more.
Let me know if you are my new hero! 
Thanks
Alison


From ejmajor250 at comcast.net  Sun Jan 20 04:46:56 2008
From: ejmajor250 at comcast.net (Ed Major)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:46:56 -0500
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
References: <000001c85b1a$0756b760$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age 11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 20 12:31:40 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:31:40 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?
References: <864F8019-1834-4315-9582-8906251B6B21@earthlink.net>
	<4792AF23.3080504@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c85b9b$18c1c630$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Hi, a couple things:
I have a bunch of machinist items, including dial indicators, that I can
part with if any of you guys need anything.
Also, even as we speak (sorry Johnny) there is a TR6 Repair and Operation
Manual on e-bay. I have a a copy myself and it's very good. There's a good
section on how to check and adjust crankshaft end-float. It can be checked
in the car, but only be adjusted with the pan off.
Ted Schumacher gave me some pointers about end-float adjustment that were
very helpful. It's quite an important spec. Thanks, Ted.
I think Kaz may have covered the subject in his books, also.
Take care and stay warm.
Bill Tobin TR6  Erie, PA  (Darned cold here!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <mark at bradakis.com>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Measuring crank end float / main cap torque?


> I take it you don't have a dial indicator.  If you're going to be
> putting together your own motors, I suggest the investment in
> a decent one will be worth it.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Sun Jan 20 12:41:11 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pikes Peak Hill Climb
Message-ID: <20080120.124111.2948.2.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

Are there any of you out there with interest in being part of the second
oldest motor sports event in America?

Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, has arranged with the Pikes Peak
International Hill Climb, to include a "Vintage" group of up to forty
(40) cars. They are looking for A/P, B/P, C/P, A/S, B/S, C/S, entries,
primarily. They are wanting cars that can do the 12.42 mile, 156 corners,
climbing about 4,708 feet in less than 15 minutes (schedule, you know). 

For complete event info, see http://www.ppihc.com/ , The RMVR contact is
: Tony Martins cycleworksusa at msn.com . There is also some information
developing at www.rmvr.com .
Make your own history!
Bill


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 15:57:11 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:57:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85b5a$28cbac80$6501a8c0@LoriPC>
Message-ID: <000001c85bb7$cb095b70$6401a8c0@blake1>

I want to say a red or rust color but pretty sure it was a Christmas
catalog.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Major [mailto:ejmajor250 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:47 AM
To: Greg & Alison Blake; 'Friends of Triumph'
Subject: Re: [Fot] The Roadster Factory

Do you remember what was on the cover of this catalog?

Ed Major
'58 TR3A, '68 TR250


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com>
To: "'Friends of Triumph'" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: [Fot] The Roadster Factory


> So last time I posted as the wife of a FOT member, I was a bit more
> vocal than I plan to be this time.  If you guys save your catalogs
like
> my husband, maybe you can help. Greg started building his TR3A at age
11
> and is now at 33 rebuilding it to the true racing ability that he
> imagined when he started. In an earlier issue of The Roadster Factory
> Parts Catalog (forgive me I have had two large children since then)
> probably between 2002 and 2003 we placed an article in the catalog,
> guessing December 2002, and it was published about the first adventure
> with Greg and his dad Robert Blake, also a FOT member, as they
> reassembled the first attempt of his car.  As a bad wife, I was
cleaning
> and recycled the catalog.
> 
> Any chance anyone has an old catalog? I have asked The Roadster
Factory
> and they have no more.
> Let me know if you are my new hero! 
> Thanks
> Alison
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Sun Jan 20 16:20:13 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mike Munson
Message-ID: <6E3E3782.1B724B7B.00159EE9@cs.com>

Mike....we are near Bowling Green...Hampton Inn Franklin.

319.464.4711

Could you give me a call?

Thanks, Joe A
5:30 Sunday


From igofaster at charter.net  Sun Jan 20 16:30:30 2008
From: igofaster at charter.net (igofaster at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>

Rimmer Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?
Also, with solid engine mounts on the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount. Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a solid tranny mount?

Bobby Whitehead
#54GT6+ CVAR


From budscars at msn.com  Sun Jan 20 17:00:52 2008
From: budscars at msn.com (budscars at msn.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:00:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
In-Reply-To: <20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
Message-ID: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
ONE
Thanks
Racer Bud
Spitfire #21   sonoma, ca.> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:30:30 -0800> From:
igofaster at charter.net> To: fot at autox.team.net> CC: fot-request at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.> > Rimmer
Brothers has a unit for rear shock conversion for the GT6. It takes the shock
mount from the body tub mount to a frame mount, removing the stress on the
tub. I want one, looks right, plus there is a Spax and British made Gaz shock
that is adjustable, mounted...any feedback?> Also, with solid engine mounts on
the GT6, is there a sport or solid adapter opinion on the transmission mount.
Can the factory rubber units be used with sucess or should I also fabricate a
solid tranny mount?> > Bobby Whitehead> #54GT6+ CVAR>
_______________________________________________>
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > Fot mailing list> Fot at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Sun Jan 20 17:15:59 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:15:59 EST
Subject: [Fot] GT6 transmission mounts. GT6 rear shock coversion.
Message-ID: <d66.219cd97b.34c53e3f@aol.com>

Keep something soft mounted for stress relief.  If you have solid  engine 
mounts then the trans mount should have some flex.
 
What do you hope to accomplish with the frame mounted shocks?  Bigger  tires 
in the tiny wheelwells?  Can't see any other advantage.  The GT6  is already 
crippled with very little rear suspension travel.  The shorty  shocks will make 
it worse.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Sun Jan 20 22:21:36 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:21:36 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>

What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
details before I paint.
 
Thanks,
 
Greg


From trmarty at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 21 11:03:19 2008
From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:03:19 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <BAY123-W1846DD92507DF48D7BBE8ABA3D0@phx.gbl>

Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?

Thanks,
Marty Sukey
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 21 14:05:00 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:05:00 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
In-Reply-To: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
References: <000001c85bed$7e9b1a90$6401a8c0@blake1>
Message-ID: <7B35629B-8013-4E58-B5B5-95A1143461C8@earthlink.net>

I'm running 15" Panasport rims.

Tires:  Yokohama Advan  A048R 205 60 HR 15  medium compound

There's a spacer on the front hubs, not sure of it's thickness.  No  
mods to the fenders at all.  My car is very low and there are slight  
signs of rubber possibly making contact with the fender lip.

~Steve


On Jan 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, Greg & Alison Blake wrote:

> What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you  
> rolling
> the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
> details before I paint.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 14:24:15 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:24:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] for sale
Message-ID: <681389.29309.qm@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Spitfire #4 White is for sale.
  a pic of it is on the fot site... spitfires...  far right, 4th row down.
  Legal in MC as vintage or F Prod. 
  No engine (useable that is)
  Tranny seemed a bit loose, having trouble getting 3rd gear when parked.
  Roll bar and side bars meet MC regs.  Main hoop is short for current SCCA and would have to be raised.
  Fiberglass bonnet, came from england and was supposedly hand built for the spits but never shipped to the US.
  Steel bonnet goes with the car also.
  Custom header and stainless exhaust goes with car.
  Several spares.
   
  I would prefer to sell the open trailer(currently burried in a wisconsin snowbank) and tow vehicle (ford f350 sb351 & 5 speed stick) along with the race car.
    I will try to get more specifics and pics together over the next week or two.  I will eventually list it on craigs list, but would prefer to have someone who cares about it get the car.  Its a fun little car, and deserves a bit of TLC and an owner who will race it as it should be raced.
    Hopefully someone from the list will be interested and give her a good home.
    Anyone who is interested feel free to call or drop by.  Best times are mornings from around 9:30 AM to 2:00 PM (central time) Tue thru Fri... pretty much anytime weekends untill around 2 or so monday afternoon.  (I work 3rd shift & usually try to sleep late afternoon & evening).
  920-733-5013
   


Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 14:29:38 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:29:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Looking for a program
Message-ID: <1427349.3747921200950978690.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net>

Marty;
       Here is one that I have used.   http://www.5speeds.com/rpm.htm

Dean Tetterton




>Some were in the past I seem to recall having a link to a program that would
>allow me to plug in RPM, MPH, tire size, gear ratios, final drive ratios and
>allow me to see what effect different inputs would have. Now that I want to
>use it I cannot find it. Any help out there?
>
>Thanks,
>Marty Sukey
>_________________________________________________________________


From tstrange at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 17:25:34 2008
From: tstrange at sbcglobal.net (tom strange)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:25:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] 4 White  4 sale  forgot to add...
Message-ID: <259707.53228.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

forgot to add ... price is open, negotiable, and reasonable.

Tom

http://www.fot-racing.com/spit/caption/tom_strange.htm
  

#4 white spitfire


From tr3a58 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 17:28:03 2008
From: tr3a58 at verizon.net (tr3a58 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:28:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Fot] Wheels for TR3 vintage racer
Message-ID: <23309691.4335981200961683947.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net>

>What wheels are you TR3 guys running?  What size tires?  Are you rolling
>the fenders lips or flaring at all?  I am trying to finalize all these
>details before I paint.
> 
>Thanks,
> 
>Greg


I use the 6X15 Panasports with the regular TR6 offset. The tires are 5.50 X 15 Vintage TD or the 205 Speedsters. No clearence problems. They are close to the rear spring on the inside but no sign of rubbing.

Dean T.
58 TR3A


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 18:12:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:12:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>

FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888


From yellow-green at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 18:20:43 2008
From: yellow-green at sbcglobal.net (Dennis DeLap)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:20:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <338995.70502.qm@web81714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes - Will was camped right across from me at MOTRA - good guy.  I'll second.
   
  Dennis DeLap

Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> wrote:
  FoT,

I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a light 
blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise 
Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross and 
did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.

He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety 
at Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.

He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?

Allen

Jody & Allen Washatko
N65 W5567 Columbia Road
Cedarburg, WI. 53012
USA

tel. (262) 375-6888
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From tr6nut at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 18:26:49 2008
From: tr6nut at verizon.net (Hugh Barber)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47954659.7020004@verizon.net>

Allen Washatko wrote:
> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks 
> in Milwaukee. ...I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
>   
I'll second the nomination.

Hugh Barber
Stafford, VA
'73 TR6


From emanteno at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 19:38:19 2008
From: emanteno at comcast.net (emanteno at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:38:19 +0000
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
Message-ID: <012220080238.4034.4795571B000B37E700000FC22207024553970A9D010507@comcast.net>

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Allen Washatko <awashatko at wi.rr.com> 

> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get 
> involved. I mentioned that he would need to crew for three different 
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to phase 
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second? 
Second. I have been email "chatting" with Will for a couple of years. I'm looking forward to actually meeting him.
Irv


From budscars at comcast.net  Mon Jan 14 09:10:35 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:10:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] kastner a 10 a cam
Message-ID: <004401c856c7$fff55d10$0302a8c0@Bud>

does someone have the lobe measurements of kastner  A10A cam for spitfire?  I
have one listed on Ebay.  please contact tej at cableracer.com
my new email address is going through the fot approval process
Thanks
Racer Bud


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 12:36:13 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:36:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
In-Reply-To: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <19426115.9565221200425242352.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <FE0B499A-22FA-4B8D-A552-6E1D780FB9E6@bnj.com>

I'm sure we'd want something much stouter. I've never done one of  
these, though I planned to back when it was a single event. Somehow it  
never happened. But I've heard all about it. You want iron around you,  
not brit tin. And you need a motor that doesn't mind abuse. An old  
buick regal with some mexican tires sounds right.

I don't know how anyone could buy a Z28 in any state for $500. It must  
be extraordinary.

On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:27 AM, <koblinger at verizon.net> <koblinger at verizon.net 
 > wrote:

> I think it may be time for a "Team FOT" entry into this  
> extravaganza. I propose using an MGB as an appropriate mount.
>
> Cheers,
> Kurt O. (running for cover)
>
>
>> From: GRMTim at aol.com
>> Date: 2008/01/15 Tue AM 11:53:57 CST
>> To: spitfiresuz at 141.com, fot at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] 24 Hours of LeMons - Stateside!
>
>> We are now the official magazine sponsor for this event and have  
>> entered one
>> of the events with a very ugly Camaro Z-28.
>>
>> Here's the official release.
>>
>> Tim Suddard
>> Publisher; Classic Motorsports
>> and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
>> www.classicmotorsports.net
>> www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
>> Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040
>>
>> The 24 Hours of LeMons is proud to announce that Grassroots  
>> Motorsports is
>> now the official magazine sponsor of the world's crappiest  
>> endurance-race
>> series.
>>
>> LeMons is based on a simple challenge: Can you buy, prepare, and
>> endurance-roadrace a car for $500 or less. Entries are selected on  
>> creativity,
>> appeal, and
>> implausibility (say, the world's first GT1 Yugo) ensuring each grid  
>> is made
>> up of la crhme de la hooptie. Teams of four to six drivers then do  
>> their best
>> to outlast the rest of the suppurating piles in a weekend-long  
>> endurance race,
>> a goal made more difficult by bad-driving penalties such as getting a
>> pig-shaped metal airbrake welded to one's roof.
>>
>> The LeMons-which began as a small gathering of whackjobs but quickly
>> metastized into a national series with thousands of participants  
>> and more
>> coverage
>> than most professional racing groups-has been called the most  
>> entertaining,
>> least
>> expensive way to go wheel-to-wheel racing. That makes LeMons a  
>> natural fit
>> with Grassroots Motorsports, a magazine famous for an unbeaten  
>> focus on fun
>> and
>> affordable competition.
>>
>> "LeMons and GRM both attract racers at every level, from first- 
>> timers to
>> seasoned competitors," says LeMons Chief Perpetrator Jay Lamm in  
>> his best
>> PR-release voice. "Many GRM staples, including project-car builds and
>> budget-conscious
>> prep, are integral to the LeMons experience. And no, of course  
>> nobody talks
>> like this in real life."
>>
>> After a short bout of self-loathing, Mr. Lamm then added "From  
>> searching for
>> raceable super-cheap junkers to the last-minute scramble in the  
>> hours leading
>> up to the green flag, every LeMons race encompasses the passion for  
>> speed,
>> shadetree wrenching, and fun epitomized by GRM readers."
>>
>> As part of its sponsorship, GRM will compete at select '08 LeMons  
>> events with
>> celebrity drivers including publisher, Tim Suddard, Amelia Island  
>> Concours
>> founder, Bill Warner, and others. "The enthusiasm these experienced  
>> automotive
>> professionals have shown for the 24 Hours of LeMons," Lamm noted, "is
>> testament
>> to the fact that they're just as susceptible to lapses in judgement  
>> as I am."
>>
>> With GRM joining the usual LeMons frenzy of wacky entries, madcap  
>> penalties,
>> and constant on-track hijinks, the '08 season promises to be the  
>> best yet.
>> Since the inaugural LeMons event in '06, every subsequent race has  
>> sold out
>> and
>> new venues are steadily being added to handle demand. With more  
>> applicants
>> than
>> available grid spots, rapidly spreading coverage, and an  
>> enthusiastic base of
>> returning competitors, LeMons has become a top destination for DIY  
>> racers. By
>> teaming up with the bible of affordable motorsports, the 24 Hours  
>> of LeMons
>> plans to bring $500 racing to lower-than-ever heights.
>> For m ore information please visit: www.24HoursofLeMons.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************
>> Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>
>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:16:35 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:16:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>

Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:

> FoT,
>
> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
> light
> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
> and
> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>
> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and safety
> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>
> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
> phase
> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>
> Allen
>
> Jody & Allen Washatko
> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
> USA
>
> tel. (262) 375-6888
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From billbab at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 18:26:19 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:26:19 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Nomination
In-Reply-To: <421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
References: <5ddaf907c70c40654190a1c25992d9eb@wi.rr.com>
	<421DB70E-D456-4A5A-ACD6-B8FD71D7D05C@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <4DD08C99-884C-41B4-9CEF-72443CE44A54@bnj.com>

oops, too many email accounts
On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Bill Babcock wrote:

> Sure, I could use a guppy..., I mean a crewmember at Watkins Glen.
> On Jan 21, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allen Washatko wrote:
>
>> FoT,
>>
>> I met Will Daehler at a recent BMW evening tour of Bennett Coachworks
>> in Milwaukee. He is an avid Triumph enthusiast and the owner of a  
>> light
>> blue TR4. He met a number of you (Joe A., Jack and Tony Drew, Denise
>> Delap, etc.) at last year's MOTRAH event where he ran the autocross  
>> and
>> did very well. He was the guy sleeping in a tent next to his car.
>>
>> He is a Senior Process Engineer for electrical, electronics and  
>> safety
>> at  Delphi. He also has a lot of letters after his name.
>>
>> He has known about the FoT for awhile but didn't know how to get
>> involved. I  mentioned that he would need to crew for three different
>> teams next year as part of his initiation and that didn't seem to  
>> phase
>> him! I therefore nominate Will to the list. Do I have a second?
>>
>> Allen
>>
>> Jody & Allen Washatko
>> N65 W5567 Columbia Road
>> Cedarburg, WI. 53012
>> USA
>>
>> tel. (262) 375-6888
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
>
>
>

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 10:20:03 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:20:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Mon Jan 21 21:09:18 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Pacific Life commercial
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV7AA09781CCDD6C5F58B56B73E0@phx.gbl>

Hey Bill, was that you on your long board riding a wave in that "Boomer" ad?
<grin>

Kev Lynch


From jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jan 21 21:09:36 2008
From: jimcun2001 at yahoo.com.au (Jim Cun)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:09:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] High End Triumph Site
Message-ID: <369162.22872.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have
been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit
hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone
has any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim

----- Original Message
----
From: "Guyots3 at wmconnect.com" <Guyots3 at wmconnect.com>
To:
fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November, 2007 6:05:29 PM
Subject: Re:
[Fot] High End Triumph Site

In a message dated 11/26/2007 8:46:55 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
fot-request at autox.team.net writes:

> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007
15:21:14 -0500
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fot]
High End Triumph Site
> To: Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
> Cc:
igofaster at charter.net
>
> I have heard enough about this Chris Cancelli of PRI
to recognize that he is
> a scam artist of the worst kind, and a liar.

There
are many people on different Triumph newsgroups in the USA & the UK
that have
been ripped off by him.

It is very simple, SEND NO MONEY, not now, not ever.
Looking out for my friends on the FoT.

Happy Holidays

Lion




  </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


      Make the switch to the
world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail


From walt at hot-tr6.com  Mon Jan 21 21:11:31 2008
From: walt at hot-tr6.com (Walter Hollowell)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Help
In-Reply-To: <522231.24065.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080122041200.B17AE1878E6@autox.team.net>

Here is the information I have on PRI but I have not tried to contact them
for a few months. I am about to order a couple of more cams/lifters if they
are wtill in business.

Performance Research Industries
1313 Duke St Suite. A
Sutherlin, Or. 97479
Ph 1 541-459-5442
 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+walt=hot-tr6.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Cun
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:20 AM
To: Friends of Triumph
Subject: [Fot] Help

Hi,
   Not sure if anyone can help? I am owed a few items from PRI and have been
emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a bit hard
to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if anyone has
any information please email me. 
 
Regards Jim


      Make the switch to
the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
www.yahoo7.com.au/worldsbestemail
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Jan 21 21:21:18 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:21:18 -0700
Subject: [Fot] List stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1200855600.21174.fot@autox.team.net>
	<20080120183030.V7J9E.343816.root@fepweb02>
	<BAY116-W93DD2C8F25D8D924A0E46C63D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <47956F3E.4090808@bradakis.com>

> CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE MY FOT FROM MY OLD EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY NEW
> ONE
>   
To unsubscribe your old address and subscribe your new one, you unsubscribe
your old address and subscribe your new one.  The mailman links included in
each message can be helpful.


mjb.


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Mon Jan 21 21:49:02 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:49:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Neat link for figuring engine stats
Message-ID: <959468.99293.qm@web81209.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Listers: Since this summer I've been in the process of working on my now 17 y.o. son's first car, a '72 Datsun 240Z. First thing we did was pull the stock motor and tranny and installed a fuel injected '77 280Z motor and 5 speed. After that was running great we turbocharged it with a turbo from a Cummins Turbo Diesel. Not really the best choice but I picked that turbo because they can be had cheaply. After I got all my plumbing issues squared away I can dial in 12 lbs of boost and this things a rocket. I will admit that when this kicks in at 4000 rpm this old man gets scared. He is now building up the original motor into a normally aspirated 240Z stroker (240 with a 280 crank and flat-top pistons). In his wandering through the net he stumbled upon the link below for figuring engine stats. It is geared for the Z cars...all the pre-loaded info is Z related, but, you can say "other" and put your own stats in and figure out your own needs. Give it a try. I plugged in some TR
 info from some motors I'm currently building and the numbers are interesting. 
  Just thought I'd share this with you all. - Ed
  http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/enginedesign/


From m-syork at comcast.net  Mon Jan 21 22:56:23 2008
From: m-syork at comcast.net (Mark York)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:56:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Triumph scores at SOVREN banquet
Message-ID: <000101c85cbb$85597010$faa81c4c@markv8zno7deim>

Several FOT members "brought home the brass" at the year end SOVREN awards
banquet.

Bill Hart in his '57 Devin Triumph was third place in Group 1 (Vintage small
bore pre-1962)

Charly Mitchel in his '69 Triumph TR6 was second in group Small Bore
Historics

Steve Hare was named "Rookie of the Year" piloting his "63 Spitfire.

Good job mates!

Mark


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 08:24:27 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:24:27 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>

FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 08:36:02 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
References: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>

There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of  
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing  
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east  
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's  
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better  
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:54:22 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:54:22 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <6A298B72-4DAB-4F15-B9DB-82D4BE35A065@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <OF092E8254.CAA935E4-ON852573D8.005700CB-852573D8.00577292@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.
If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel

go to  WWW.VARAC.CA  /Festival/Accommodations  and there you find a list 
of B+B and Hotels.
i normally camp over the Weekend.

Peter

Peter Bulkowski





Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com>
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:36 AM
 
        To:     N197TR4 at cs.com
        cc:     Friends of Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
        Subject:        Re: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in 
Nero. It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of 
"Lord of the Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing 
around it. There's a couple of hotels at the town that's to the east 
on the lakeshore (I don't remember the name of the town) and there's 
some pretty good restaurants there. Are you driving the track? Better 
grow a third testicle before you go.
On Jan 22, 2008, at 7:24 AM, N197TR4 at cs.com wrote:

> FoT,
>
> Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.
>
> Typical places where the FoT have stayed.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe A   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From simon at telephonestogo.ca  Tue Jan 22 08:58:31 2008
From: simon at telephonestogo.ca (Simon Rasmussen)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:58:31 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Hotels
Message-ID: <035901c85d0f$a35b9580$3464a8c0@SIMON>

Bowmanville is the nearest town that has a few of the typical hotels, Oshawa
is a little further west and would have a full range of choices.
Nothing right at the track, guess Don Panoz didn't get around to it.
Simon.


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Tue Jan 22 09:02:23 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:02:23 EST
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
Message-ID: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>

Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and at the 
track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.

But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time and 
looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but there may be 
better.

Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/ 

The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are large 
enough...not that I have seen them.

Thanks!

VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/ 

Joe



    



> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in Nero. 
> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord of the 
> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it. There's a 
> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I don't 
> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good restaurants there. Are 
> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go. 
> 

   </HTML>


From billbab at gmail.com  Tue Jan 22 09:33:58 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:33:58 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
References: <c2c.28685129.34c76d8f@cs.com>
Message-ID: <29E064FA-7FED-495D-AB4F-84A854CC47C2@gmail.com>

Diane and I did stay at a very pretty B&B on a nearby lake--big  
victorian place. but it was a ways from the track.

On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:02 AM, n197tr4 at cs.com wrote:

> Bill,  I have run there twice before....I have stayed at hotels and  
> at the
> track. I prefer the track and will likely have RV.
>
> But our FOT Friends from the UK will be attending for the first time  
> and
> looking for nice place for them to stay.  The Admiral Inn is OK, but  
> there may be
> better.
>
> Lots of B & Bs within 10 Minutes of track     http://www.varac.ca/
>
> The Englishmen dont require a third testical as their  first two are  
> large
> enough...not that I have seen them.
>
> Thanks!
>
> VARAC  website:        http://www.varac.ca/
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> There isn't anything close by, we stayed at the track of course, in  
>> Nero.
>> It's nice to camp out there, everyone does. Like some kind of "Lord  
>> of the
>> Flies" thing--little kids building bonfires and dancing around it.  
>> There's a
>> couple of hotels at the town that's to the east on the lakeshore (I  
>> don't
>> remember the name of the town) and there's some pretty good  
>> restaurants there. Are
>> you driving the track? Better grow a third testicle before you go.
>>
>
>   </HTML>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Billbab at gmail.com
www.kenalu.com
www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog


From Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca  Tue Jan 22 10:01:38 2008
From: Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca (Bulkowskip at mercedes-benz.ca)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008
In-Reply-To: <bcd.1d8d9940.34c764ab@cs.com>
Message-ID: <OFCA23ED8B.26152D03-ON852573D8.005D571E-852573D8.005D9B00@mercedes-benz.ca>

FOT.

If you planning to go to a Hotel or Motel.

Go to  WWW.VARAC.CA / Festival/ Accommodation  there you will find Hotels 
and B+B listed

Regards.

Peter Bulkowski
Technical Manager,Special Projects
Cell 416-520-6108
Offi. 416-847-7514
98 Vanderhoof Ave.
Toronto,Ont.  M4G 4C9




N197TR4 at cs.com
Sent by: fot-bounces+bulkowskip=mercedes-benz.ca at autox.team.net
01/22/2008 10:24 AM
 
        To:     fot at autox.team.net
        cc: 
        Subject:        [Fot] Mosport Hotels   June 2008


FoT,

Looking for good choices of hotels for June Event.

Typical places where the FoT have stayed.

Thanks,

Joe A   </HTML>
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 22 10:03:39 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:03:39 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Help
Message-ID: <BLU127-W15071B7B402F4B6136B3858C3E0@phx.gbl>

Jim Cun wrote:

> I am owed a few items from PRI and have
> been emailing and calling with no response. As I am in Australia it is a
bit
> hard to knock on his door to see if the company is still going. So if
anyone
> has any information please email me.

Good luck Jim.  This scab has owed me parts and money for 5 years.
He was run out of San Diego 10 years ago, and I hear that the Alfa
community might send a posse with a rope.

Again, good luck, and I mean that sincerely.

Shane Ingate in NM

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your
"fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx


From dave at microworks.net  Wed Jan 23 22:34:32 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:34:32 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <20080124053947.ORYI20092.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

The current issue of F1 Mag has a very interesting article on the 
combination of gases the Teams have been experimenting with regards 
to filling their tires.

This was one of the issues in the "Stepney-gate" affair and was in 
the emails between Alonso and de La Rosa.  Ferrari was experimenting 
with using hydoflurocarbons (similar to that found in your A/C and 
refrigerator) to keep the tires cooler so they would not grain and blister.

The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it 
gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Pat Symonds of Renault said "...it has a tiny effect that's difficult 
to measure on track.  But because F1 is so restrictive it's all about 
adding up the tiny effects to get a  larger one."


From ablake2 at austin.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 00:03:03 2008
From: ablake2 at austin.rr.com (Greg & Alison Blake)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:03:03 -0600
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <000001c85e57$29ec8030$6401a8c0@blake1>

What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?
 
Thanks,
 
Greg


From Gt6steve at aol.com  Thu Jan 24 06:19:33 2008
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:19:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>

Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse  them.  
Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most likely you can 
lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From billbab at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 08:35:39 2008
From: billbab at gmail.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:35:39 -0800
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
In-Reply-To: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
References: <c92.204f8277.34c9ea65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>

I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it  
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill  
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300  
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of  
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse   
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole.   Most  
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them  out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 24 08:42:23 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <8EF5FEB8-2A3E-4AA5-9FB6-EC07162822CF@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block?  I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock <billbab at gmail.com> wrote:  I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Thu Jan 24 09:33:08 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:33:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Header trades.. bits needed & for sale
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV55159DD567E4E83525976B7380@phx.gbl>

Amici, I've a friend who has a 1296 chrome header that he needs to sell or
trade for a 1147 header . He also has a Mk4 alternator for sale or trade. He
also is needing an "early" hard top.

Thank you from the sunny High Plains.

Kevin


 I have and also  I need an early hard top if someone wants to trade!!


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 24 13:21:02 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
Message-ID: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>

> The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.

Do you mean nitrogen?

Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html

Shane Ingate, air is air when sucking hard at 7500', in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan


From slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net  Thu Jan 24 17:38:06 2008
From: slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net (John McCue)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:38:06 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
Message-ID: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>

I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the seller
says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the differences
between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this conversion
I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with a
Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into play.
Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Thu Jan 24 18:26:05 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:26:05 GMT
Subject: [Fot] valve guide removal
Message-ID: <20080124.202605.25373.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

I have replaced guides in 4 or 5 heads and have just pressed them out.  I used
bronze guides for the new ones and have had no problem with the new ones being
loose in the head.  They have all needed to be reemed after being pressed into
the head to fit the valve.

The old guides are just the right size to use in my abrasive blast cabinet, so
they get put to good used.  Joe(B)

-- "Greg & Alison Blake" <ablake2 at austin.rr.com> wrote:
What is the preferred method for removal valve guides from a TR head?
Can I simply press them or drive them out or do I need to preheat the
head in an oven first?

Thanks,

Greg
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find a school near you that offers project management
certification courses.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijncIOt087sG1bKDZWMzVwXdo
HWhgtgaOTgDKd0BXXiOlS42W/


From charly at mitchelplumbing.com  Thu Jan 24 19:14:35 2008
From: charly at mitchelplumbing.com (Charly Mitchel)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:14:35 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <00ba01c85ef8$08430750$1b02a8c0@workstation3>

john, the TR250 and the 69 TR6 had flywheels with a longer end on the
crankshaft.  70 and later TR6 went to a shorter crankshaft and made the
flywheel longer and heavier.  I'm not sure what the GT6 or 2000 or 2500
saloons used.  I don't know if the TR6 flywheel will work on a GT6 motor,
but it should work on the saloons.
You can not mix the 2 different parts.  The transmissions, clutches and
everything else are the same and they can be interchanged.
You can buy the lightweight steel flywheel for the long or short snouted
crankshaft for about the same price as an aluminum one.  BPnorthwest.com has
them or I can get you one.
Charly Mitchel
TR6 #44
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John McCue" <slugthemtrhd at suddenlink.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts


> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the
seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the
differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this
conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor with
a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into
play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Thu Jan 24 20:06:13 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:06:13 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Crankshafts
In-Reply-To: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
References: <000a01c85eea$8d952860$bccf6c4b@johnkbv4bfa8sa>
Message-ID: <59c709be3ebe628f8dbb40e269f12d0a@wi.rr.com>

John,

I believe the terms are actually "long" or "short" tail cranks. The 
long tail cranks were used in the early engines (up to CC50000) and the 
short tail cranks were used in later models. The difference is in the 
pilot bush length which fits into the flywheel. The long is 1" and the 
short is 1/2" in length.

If you are racing the car, I would highly recommend buying the 9.5 lb. 
alloy flywheel that British Parts Northwest sells. It will better 
withstand the destructive harmonics created by the TR6 crank. Be sure 
to add 4 additional bolts at the crank and use ARP flywheel bolts.

Allen

On Jan 24, 2008, at 6:38 PM, John McCue wrote:

> I have a chance to buy a new aluminum flywheel for a TR6 motor but the 
> seller
> says the flywheel was listed for a long crank motor.  What are the 
> differences
> between a regular crank motor and a long crank motor?  Also in this 
> conversion
> I am looking at using this flywheel on the back of my 1969 GT6 motor 
> with a
> Tilton clutch and who knows what transmission so that also comes into 
> play.
> Please enlighten me if you can so I can DEAL or NO DEAL.  John McCue
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From edwardbarnard at prodigy.net  Thu Jan 24 21:07:06 2008
From: edwardbarnard at prodigy.net (EDWARD BARNARD)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:07:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] Spitfire Block
In-Reply-To: <83479.4307.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <440892.48234.qm@web81206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dale: The groove should be .030" deep and 3.5" in diameter if you want to use a stock headgasket. Thanks - Ed

dale oesterle <dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net> wrote:  Does anyone know the specifications of the recessed groove around the pistons in the later 1296 or 1500 block? I want to convert an early 1296 block to use the recessed head gasket for the later blocks. Thanks Dale Oesterle.

Bill Babcock wrote: I've never done this myself on a TR head, but the way I used to do it 
for motorcycles was to drill the guide with a slightly larger drill 
until it was flush with the head, then heat the head to about 300 
degrees in an oven and drift out the guides with a stepped drift. Of 
course these are small heads and they are aluminum.

On Jan 24, 2008, at 5:19 AM, Gt6steve at aol.com wrote:

> Safest way is to drill them to a size near 1/2" and then collapse 
> them.
> Driving them introduces a slight risk of dragging the hole. Most 
> likely you can
> lube them with your favorite penetrant and drive them out.
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From BillDentin at aol.com  Fri Jan 25 13:00:33 2008
From: BillDentin at aol.com (BillDentin at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:00:33 EST
Subject: [Fot] John Sprinzel
Message-ID: <c36.211ba39b.34cb99e1@aol.com>

Amici...

Bill Thompson, the Flounder at TEAM THICKO, asked me to pass this info along 
to all in the TRIUMPH community.  It concerns John Sprinzel (Speedwell 
Sprites, etc.,) and a rare book long out of print.  I've met Mr. Sprinzel several 
times.  He's a really neat guy, full of great stories.  If interested, here's the 
info:

Here's your chance to get a copy of a book long out of print. Original
copies have gone for hundreds of dollars on Ebay.  John Sprinzel has 
reprinted "Spritely Years" after buying the rights and the acetates back from Haynes. 

This is a "must have" for anyone interested in Sprites, Healeys, Triumph,
Ford, rallying, and a host of other cars John drove during his career. It's
an honest, informative, funny look at John's life as a driver, tuner,
manufacturer, etc.

Only 500 copies were produced for the 50th Sprite year anniversary, so that
they will still be fairly rare.  He is selling them autographed at $65 
including postage in the US ($71.00 overseas) .
 
His address is P.O. Box 97 Kaunakakai HI 96748

John's e-mail  address for this is johnsebring65 at gmail.com .

He does have Paypal, (though he says, "I am not yet too sure how it all
works"), otherwise US check or money order will do the trick. 

He'll have a few copies at the Sprite deal  in May, and Tom Coulthard
(co-author) might be there to sign them as well.




**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Fri Jan 25 15:41:21 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:41:21 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Weird Vehicle
Message-ID: <004501c85fa3$694b9c50$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

My apologies for "bombing" the list . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957-Fletcher-Aviator-Bonneville-Cruiser_W0QQi
temZ140200642196QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140200642196


From dave at microworks.net  Fri Jan 25 16:43:25 2008
From: dave at microworks.net (David W. Riddle)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Filling Tires
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W393E84E9ADAE0DF297CF0C8C380@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080125235656.VGNK18222.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

Nope.  He meant the same good ole that you breath air

"...During the fitting process Bridgestone inflate their Potenza 
rubber to 50psi to seat it on the wheel rim; they then supply the 
tyres to the teams at 20psi, along with an inflation range that teams 
must adhere to in the interests of safety.
Bridgestone inflate their tyres with normal - but dried - atmospheric 
air because its rate of expansion inside a tyre is predictable as the 
tyre heats up during racing conditions...
"We remove the moisture from the air to get a more consistent 
response to changes in temperature" says Bridgestone's technical 
manager, Tetsuro Kobayashi.  "Air normally consists of about 78 
percent nitrogen, and the moisture content is a variable of around 
one per cent..."

The article goes on to say that the teams have been experimenting 
with both nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

The wheel rims have two valves so that the teams can purge the wheel 
to add whatever gas they want.

At 01:21 PM 1/24/2008, Shane Ingate wrote:

> > The comment from Bridgestone's Technical Manager dismisses that it
> > gains anything and believe plain "dried air" is the best solution.
>
>Do you mean nitrogen?
>
>Tech article here: http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.html


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Fri Jan 25 19:30:00 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:30:00 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>

Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
#VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
#VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box. Darn
thing is I can't recall what it was.

I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When time
allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an old
catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.

Kevin Colo.
GT6


From REK46 at aol.com  Sat Jan 26 06:17:13 2008
From: REK46 at aol.com (REK46 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:17:13 EST
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
Message-ID: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>

The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat 
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and 
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The outers are 
same OD/ID size.


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL 
Music.
     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)


From klynch_6 at msn.com  Sat Jan 26 07:07:05 2008
From: klynch_6 at msn.com (KEVIN LYNCH)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
References: <ca1.2418a04e.34cc8cd9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU126-DAV4B5A9A1CAE9123AF4163BB73A0@phx.gbl>

Ah, OK, that sounds like what happened. It was back in 1998.  Thanks for the
info/help! Have a great Daytona.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: REK46 at aol.com<mailto:REK46 at aol.com>
  To: klynch_6 at msn.com<mailto:klynch_6 at msn.com> ;
fot at autox.team.net<mailto:fot at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Fot] C.R.S. !!


  The SP-006 are more of street rating..lower spring pressure( 100lbs seat
pres.--260lbs/inch.....The SP-116 are race type with115lbs seat and
320lbs/inch....there's also a slight diff in the inner spring OD/ID sizes.The
outers are same OD/ID size.


  **************
  Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
  (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
00002548<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp
00300000002548>)


From colordog.1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 26 09:54:38 2008
From: colordog.1 at earthlink.net (Steven Belfer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:54:38 -0800
Subject: [Fot] C.R.S. !!
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-DAV856E91DD6C5834A63C235B73A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E610B361-C4CE-46C4-BA1B-65AB059A2D3C@earthlink.net>

I too had a question about an old box of Isky springs and retainers I  
inherited.
I gave them a call and talked to Ron Iskenderian.  He's very cool,  
helpful, and remembers all the product numbers!

~Steve


On Jan 25, 2008, at 6:30 PM, KEVIN LYNCH wrote:

> Ten years back in my initial rebuild I found a box of ISKY springs
> #VWE-005/SP006, Something must've gone foo-bar as I found a box with
> #VWE-005/SP116 with the aforementioned penciled in below on the box.  
> Darn
> thing is I can't recall what it was.
>
> I looked in the ISKY site but currently coming up with bupkis. When  
> time
> allows could someone tell me the spec difference of these two in an  
> old
> catalog? I'd appreciate it, have a good weekend.
>
> Kevin Colo.
> GT6
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 26 12:11:19 2008
From: dale.oesterle at sbcglobal.net (dale oesterle)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] weber
Message-ID: <802417.39616.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can anyone tell me what choke, fuel and air jets, idle and emulsion tube go with a single 45 DCOE weber and a 1296 (Mark III spitfire) with 12 to 1 compression? Dale Oesterle


From jimhearn1 at comcast.net  Sat Jan 26 21:17:59 2008
From: jimhearn1 at comcast.net (jim hearn)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:17:59 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
Message-ID: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>

I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my TR6.
When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only for
racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
anyone know if this is correct?

Thanks, Jim
Two 1974 TR6s

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat]


From jmwagner at greenheart.com  Sun Jan 27 19:49:53 2008
From: jmwagner at greenheart.com (Justin Wagner)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:49:53 -0800
Subject: [Fot] TRIUMPH TR4 TR4A FIBERGLASS Bonnet/Hood on EBAY
Message-ID: <479D42D1.1020405@greenheart.com>

FYI....  --Justin

Item number: 250103330582
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRIUMPH-TR4-TR4A-FIBERGLASS-Bonnet-Hood_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34204QQihZ015QQitemZ250103330582QQtcZphoto 


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Sun Jan 27 19:56:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:56:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/


From triosan at gmail.com  Sun Jan 27 20:20:13 2008
From: triosan at gmail.com (Chuck Arnold)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:20:13 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Installing an oil cooler
In-Reply-To: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
References: <000001c8609b$9a6978e0$b1191718@computer>
Message-ID: <8cbd782d0801271920o41f3375cmca326349d17715bf@mail.gmail.com>

I have attached a picture for Jim Hearn who asked the question.  It shows my
engine from the side with the plumbing installed.  From it I can tell the
"out" is at the bottom and the in at the top of the adapter.  Does not show
the thermostat.  Does show a "T" I installed at the in  port. From the top
of the T one side goes to a feed to the number one cylinder oil galley.  The
other side goes to the accusump.



On Jan 26, 2008 8:17 PM, jim hearn <jimhearn1 at comcast.net> wrote:

> I am installing an oil cooler with the spin on oil filter adapter on my
> TR6.
> When it comes to putting the thermostat in line, the directions say to see
> which line has the oil flowing from the engine.  Since this car is only
> for
> racing, I wasn't going to put any oil in it for another month or so.  Can
> anyone please tell me which outlet on the adapter (top or bottom) has the
> oil flow from the engine?  I would expect it to be the top one since the
> bottom outlet (in this case inlet) flows directly to the filter.  Does
> anyone know if this is correct?
>
> Thanks, Jim
> Two 1974 TR6s
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had
> a name of winmail.dat]
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>



-- 
Chuck Arnold

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of engine side viewer no meter unit1.JPG]


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 12:18:57 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/


From malaboge at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 18:52:26 2008
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
In-Reply-To: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080127.215618.10240.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <8CA3030BB6E52BF-904-3700@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com>

Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with?87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers



Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since I
have been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM manifold
from Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would offer them
to the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted for 87mm
pistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with different
jetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm pistons on the
dyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.  Joe(B)
_____________________________________________________________
Trick out your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH7Gqc
rgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 20:51:30 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:51:30 GMT
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers
Message-ID: <20080128.225130.16373.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com>

Sorry, but I never had an 87mm engine on a dyno with the webers on it.
Joe(B)

-- malaboge at aol.com wrote:
Inquiring minds and all that...

What HP did the dyno reveal with 87mm bore size?

GCR aficiandos want to know...
                  Nick in Nor Cal


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net>
To: fot at autox.team.net
Sent: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:56 pm
Subject: [Fot] Selling TR3/4 Webers

Friends, I have been thinking about selling my Weber 45 DCOE carbs, since
Ihave been using SU's the last couple of years.  These are on  a TWM
manifoldfrom Pierce manifold and have an ITG filter.  Figured that I would
offer themto the list first, before going to Ebay.  They are currently jetted
for 87mmpistons with BFE Profile 23 cam.  I have also used these (with
differentjetting) with 89mm pistons and a profile 23 cam.  With the 89mm
pistons on thedyno we had 188 HP (SAE corrected) at the flywheel.
Joe(B)_____________________________________________________________Trick out
your ride with quality ATV accessories. Click
now!http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmzEhl9TFlPfg5u3HnsH
7GqcrgtWE54yKwihJcobCXYygEKO/_______________________________________________h
ttp://www.team.net/donate.htmlFot mailing
listFot at autox.team.nethttp://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fotMore new
features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!

_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on how to become certified as a project
management professional.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijncIOsbtyNwU3mPYHRfvFYKM
uWf8Pw1YcyuWwFU0Gyf6Uit0/


From quicktr4 at comcast.net  Mon Jan 28 23:40:15 2008
From: quicktr4 at comcast.net (quicktr4)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:40:15 -0800
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
References: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>
Message-ID: <001c01c86241$cfd61810$c6fee747@quickfure2vk6w>

in the mid 60's My Dad ran with the  cal auto team on the west coast. they 
stoped by chevron on the way to the track and filled up with white pump 100 
or 101 octane if I remember.there oil of choise was castrol bean oil I realy 
miss the smell of that stuf at the track.  Jeff
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Preiss" <spreiss at verizon.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:20 PM
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings


>I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were 
>used
> in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s 
> up
> through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
> Steve P.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot 


From mediehljr at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 29 04:49:08 2008
From: mediehljr at yahoo.com (Ed Diehl)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:49:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <325574.86106.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all, micrometers are very accurate, plastigauge is not!  Cheers, Ed.
Ed Diehl

Joe Boruch <jaboruch at netzero.net> wrote:  The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge. So
far I have not found any discrepancies. Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot



Ed Diehl
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.


From awashatko at wi.rr.com  Tue Jan 29 05:38:11 2008
From: awashatko at wi.rr.com (Allen Washatko)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:38:11 -0600
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>

I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can 
buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is 
there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive 
applications?

Allen

Allen & Jody Washatko
1971 TR6  - Number 6


From henry at henryfrye.com  Tue Jan 29 05:42:55 2008
From: henry at henryfrye.com (Henry Frye)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:42:55 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>

My machine shop uses the mic method only.

I assemble all my own motors, and once asked if I should check with
plasticgauge. His answer was a resounding NO.

I have had these guys call me to tell me the bearings I supplied were no
good, too much clearance. They were new old stock Vandervells. I had to
either find new bearings or pay to have all big ends resized, line bore
the block, etc. We were talking about less than 1/2 a thou!

Nine years of racing, more motor rebuilds than I care to think about,
never a bottom end/oil related issue. Every main bearing looked like it
could be reused, some rod bearings have shown signs of wear, but never
even close to failure. You should get the bearings back marked where
they get reinstalled, and you will see little superficial scratches
where the inside mic was used. I always smile when I see those scratches
on teardown!

Yes, I am knocking on wood...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Janzen
> Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
>
> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or
> mains, torques the caps and uses an inside micrometer to
> check bearing clearances before installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have
> to use plastigauge.
> What says the group?


From spreiss at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 21:54:42 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:54:42 +1100
Subject: [Fot] great photos
Message-ID: <003801c86233$10b969e0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

Want to see some great photographs of vintage race cars of all stripes? Go to
www.brmmbrmm.com/CastrolR.
Steve P.


From S.Janzen at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 16:07:44 2008
From: S.Janzen at comcast.net (Scott Janzen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:07:44 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Looking for Mike Cook
Message-ID: <005801c862cb$c23f4a70$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>

Mike, Ted Schumacher suggested I contact you.  Please drop me an e-mail.
Thanks!


From budscars at comcast.net  Tue Jan 29 19:51:37 2008
From: budscars at comcast.net (RACER BUD)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:51:37 -0800
Subject: [Fot] racing friends
Message-ID: <000f01c862eb$08852800$0302a8c0@Bud>

'Side By Side...as We Slide...Trusting Friends...What a Ride'
Hi Gang
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21


From hottr6 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 29 21:18:45 2008
From: hottr6 at hotmail.com (Shane Ingate)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <BLU127-W42E6361BE9BB5F56CB1BEA8C360@phx.gbl>

Allan Washatko wrote:

> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?

I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
stuff too.

Shane Ingate in NM


_________________________________________________________________
Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
http://biggestloser.msn.com/


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 07:31:46 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 09:31:46 EST
Subject: [Fot] Watkins Glen - "The Legends Speak" - September 2008 Friday
 Afternoon
Message-ID: <bc0.25f100d1.34d1e452@cs.com>

FoT,

The Village of Watkins Glen has a forum at 3:00PM in Lafayette Park on Friday 
afternoon.  This year The LEGENDS SPEAK panel will be made up of current and 
former Friends of Triumph.    (TBA)

If your schedule allows, this will be the place to be....wearing your new FOT 
Shirts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------

<A HREF="http://websearch.cs.com/cs/boomframe.jsp?query=grand+Prix+Festival&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D53175234cfb894c5%26clickedItemRank%3D1%26userQuery%3Dgrand%2BPrix%2BFestival%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DCSroll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grandprixfestival.com%2F">Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen</A>
 
The Grand Prix Festival of Watkins Glen presented by Chemung Canal Trust 
Company . A celebration of our heritage of road racing, come share our memories!

http://www.grandprixfestival.com/ 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

This weekend is far more than a vintage race weekend. It is a celebration of 
our Triumphs made possible by The Village of Watkins Glen and the SVRA.

Special Thanks to Classic Motorsports magazine.....

Joe Alexander

    
   </HTML>


From spitlist at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 08:51:06 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:51:06 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
References: <4d8dda39a4e478bc239ee88db19c26d6@wi.rr.com>
Message-ID: <001801c86357$ed623500$2d02a8c0@Belkin>

Try:

Coil Spring Specialties
632 Bertrand
ST. Mary's, KS 66536
Phone 785-437-2025

You will need to give them a complete specification on what you want (coil
diameter, height, spring rate, etc) but they are extremely reasonable.

I had a pair of coils made for my Spit and my total cost with shipping was
$142.47  back in 2002.

Joe C.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Washatko" <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
To: "Friends of Triumph" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:38 AM
Subject: [Fot] Springs


> I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> applications?
>
> Allen
>
> Allen & Jody Washatko
> 1971 TR6  - Number 6


From RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu  Wed Jan 30 08:54:34 2008
From: RJunkermeier at wyotech.edu (Richard Junkermeier)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:54:34 -0700
Subject: [Fot] (no subject)
Message-ID: <A69D98229727EF49861D0B7C17BF28AB095FA069@LARNPMAIL01.admin.wyotech.net>

Hi  I talked to BJ dragger at Draco springs in Houston texas at last years
PRI show they do a lot of the springs for Nascar teams. He said the would do
any size and length and rate springs we wanted I have tried Eibach and
several others and they only would do common sizes they stocked Draco seemed
very helpful www.dracospring.com

 

Richard Junkermeier

Chassis Fabrication & High Performance Engines Instructor

WyoTech

(307) 755-2443

rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu <mailto:rjunkermeier at wyotech.edu> 

www.wyotech.com <http://www.wyotech.com> 


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:10:39 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:10:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] New Planned Registration for Watkins Glen-September - Spitfire
Message-ID: <d47.1eeb0e78.34d1fb7f@cs.com>

Tom Strange,

Please add Al Lessard of Quebec to the list of intended entries. His 
information is below.

Thanks! 

Joe Alexander


> TKS Joe. 
>  
> Just received my new engine one wk ago.
> I will be in Mosport.......... at the Festival in June and my most important 
> event will be Watkins Glen Sept 3-7-08, a first visit.
> Please keep me posted.
>  
> AL.
>  Alcide Lessard, Varac # 04 
> 576, Terrasse Cyr. 
> Laval,   QC. H7X 2H8 
> SPITFIRE
> photoboat at videotron.ca
> 
> 
> 

   </HTML>


From N197TR4 at cs.com  Wed Jan 30 09:24:34 2008
From: N197TR4 at cs.com (N197TR4 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:24:34 EST
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <cbe.1fd88c64.34d1fec2@cs.com>

Thanks!

Joe Alexander
   </HTML>


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................


From Billb at bnj.com  Wed Jan 30 12:54:16 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
In-Reply-To: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>

If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the  
balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to  
smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)  
flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with  
CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing  
else, it doesn't hurt.
Bill

On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>  
<dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual  
> SU
> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My  
> fabricator
> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every  
> car with
> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him  
> to build
> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault  
> powered
> Bunce Buck.........................
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com


From kaskas at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 13:58:23 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:58:23 -0800
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
References: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>
	<0E6843F9-6731-4A4A-8700-230915A9E405@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c86382$da5a2be0$d214c548@RW>

With S.U. carbs, yes, with the Webers no need for in effect you have a 
separate carburetor for each port..
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: <dos_gusanos at msn.comdos_gusanos@msn.com>
Cc: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Fot] Manifold Question


> If you don't and you have problems you'll always assume it's the
> balance pipe. Constant velocity carbs often have balance pipes to
> smooth pressure fluctuations and decrease the piston (or diaphragm)
> flutter in the carbs. It was a common fix on Yamaha XS1 650 twins with
> CV carbs to add a balance tube when the carbs were flaky. If nothing
> else, it doesn't hurt.
> Bill
>
> On Jan 30, 2008, at 10:20 AM, <dos_gusanos at msn.com>
> <dos_gusanos at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual
>> SU
>> Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My
>> fabricator
>> says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every
>> car with
>> dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him
>> to build
>> a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
>> ..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault
>> powered
>> Bunce Buck.........................
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From spreiss at verizon.net  Sun Jan 27 16:20:39 2008
From: spreiss at verizon.net (Steven Preiss)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 10:20:39 +1100
Subject: [Fot] fuel ratings
Message-ID: <002601c8613b$3ba6c8d0$2b01a8c0@stevenhgi8vu27>

I am wondering specifically what engine fuels and lubricating oils were used
in the Competition Department cars from the time they began with the TR3s up
through the period of the Sebring TR4s.
Steve P.


From william.tobin3 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 28 16:28:27 2008
From: william.tobin3 at verizon.net (WILLIAM TOBIN)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <003201c861e2$a1458490$6501a8c0@vefadvisors.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86205$7cb5d8f0$2f01a8c0@ownereq69gs6ae>

Why not use both? Myself, I like the plastigage method. Theoretically, if
you mike the crank, mike the ID of the bearings, and subtract the two you
will get the clearance.
An old time method (I learned this in 1967 in automotive school); with the
crank out of the engine and the rods removed, take the bearing shell out of
the rod,  put a piece of shim stock between the cap and bearing, .001",
.002", etc., put it together on the crank and torque the assembly.Try to
rotate the rod on the crank. When the clearance is taken up by the shim, the
rod will drag. Ex. you put in .002" and the rod has turning resistance, the
clearance is .002". Sound logical? You just have to remember to take out the
shim! An old timer named Harry DeRemer taught us that years ago. He'd been
in the auto business since the 20's. Great guy.
Anyway, that's my take. Anyone agree or disagree?
Thanks, Bill Tobin  Erie, PA  TR6 Vintage type
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net>
To: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
> caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
> installing the rods or crank.
> Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
> plastigauge.
> What says the group?
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From jaboruch at netzero.net  Mon Jan 28 17:55:18 2008
From: jaboruch at netzero.net (Joe Boruch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:55:18 GMT
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <20080128.195518.3801.1@webmail19.dca.untd.com>

The machine shop I use checks the dimensions with micrometers, but since I
assemble the engine myself I usually double check things with plastigauge.  So
far I have not found any discrepancies.  Joe(B)

-- "Scott Janzen" <S.Janzen at comcast.net> wrote:
One builder I know installs the bearings in the rod ends or mains, torques
the
caps and uses an inside micrometer to check bearing clearances before
installing the rods or crank.
Another one swears that method is not sufficient and you have to use
plastigauge.
What says the group?
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on accounting careers, $150/hour potential.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlSAJrc8ENc5bu4Zw4DBMhyf
J6YraSdo8sSHgSXTBb9CanqN/


From dos_gusanos at msn.com  Wed Jan 30 11:20:03 2008
From: dos_gusanos at msn.com (dos_gusanos at msn.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Manifold Question
Message-ID: <BLU127-W149304C5AAB4F95184D60C90360@phx.gbl>

Hi guys,  I am looking for more of your valued advice.  On most dual SU
Manifolds they have a balance pipe connecting the runner pipes.  My fabricator
says the balance pipe is a waste.  I think otherwise because every car with
dual SU's has one.  Webers don't.  What say you?  should i order him to build
a balance pipe into my manifold or let it slide?
..............................Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, Renault powered
Bunce Buck.........................


From jsnook at wcnet.org  Wed Jan 30 13:33:14 2008
From: jsnook at wcnet.org (Jeff Snook)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Fot] SVRA Mid Ohio Event
Message-ID: <00a801c8637f$56c29bd0$6601a8c0@JeffSnook>

Hey all,

I expect everyone is busy planning their 2008 race season now.  You should
think seriously about attending the SVRA June 26th to 29th event at Mid Ohio
because the "Nazis" are gone!

I believe it was in 2004 that the security at MO was named the Mid Ohio
"Nazis".  Lots of people pissed off about the lack of compassion from the
security staff, making it unpleasant for us racers.  At the 2005 event
Michelle Truman met with some of us to get our feedback about the problems.
She explained that their security staff was treating our vintage race like one
of their large spectator pro events which was probably the problem.

I missed the 2006 event, but heard from friends that had been at the meeting
with Michelle the previous year that it was much better.  Apparently their
security guy was canned and they were much more helpful and accommodating to
us vintage racers.  Last year I attended the event and was pleasantly
surprised to see lots of young coeds out directing traffic with big smiles on
their faces and friendly waves.  No hassles at all.

I know some of you swore you would never go back, and voiced your displeasure
by your lack of attendance.  But you ought to reconsider as the "Nazis" are
gone!  And... Mid Ohio is one of the nicest tracks in the county!!

Vroom, vroom,

Jeff Snook
http://www.snooksdreamcars.com


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Wed Jan 30 18:29:20 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:29:20 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131012920.LJWD2859.invictus@[209.143.0.76]>

One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have 1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair runs around $300 or higher.  Ted
> 
> From: Shane Ingate <hottr6 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue Jan 29, 11:18 PM
> To: <awashatko at wi.rr.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> Allan Washatko wrote:
> 
> > I'm looking for a source for custom coil springs. I know that you can
> > buy springs and cut them to get certain free lengths and rates but is
> > there someone out there that can make custom springs for our diminutive
> > applications?
> 
> I would be very surprised if www.eibach.com would not have what
> you want.  Look in their Motorsports cattledog.  Truechoice carries their
> stuff too.
> 
> Shane Ingate in NM
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!
> http://biggestloser.msn.com/
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From Catpusher at aol.com  Wed Jan 30 19:24:39 2008
From: Catpusher at aol.com (Catpusher at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:24:39 EST
Subject: [Fot] TR2-4A valve guide R&R
Message-ID: <c3a.2ac7a770.34d28b67@aol.com>

I always carried drifts that fit in and on the guides, and used the copper 
knockoff hammer to carefully drift the guides out and in (you can deform them).  
The shock helps.
I highly recommend honing the guides after they are installed; I had too many 
failures with lesser
methods, and this recommendation is even stronger for non-cast-iron guides 
and race cams.
 
Hardy



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 09:43:48 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:43:48 -0700
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
Message-ID: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>

I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 10:35:27 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:35:27 -0700
Subject: [Fot] What fun
Message-ID: <47A206DF.8020403@bradakis.com>

Looks like some odd server troubles cropped up last night,
I'm looking into it.

mjb.


From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan 31 13:33:05 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:33:05 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Further fun
Message-ID: <47A23081.8020206@bradakis.com>

I think I have the Team.Net mail lists working again.

mjb.


From gaf3 at charter.net  Thu Jan 31 15:28:46 2008
From: gaf3 at charter.net (Glenn Franco)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>

Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>
> mjb.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
>   
Mark
Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at 
harbor freight.
They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an 
outside micrometer to take your measurement.
They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things 
like valve guide dimensions (id).
I have been using them for years.
But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
Glenn Franco
72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:33:34 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:33:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311730280.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.

I absolutely agree. I just got a set of these recently because my 
machinist retired. He used to measure my stuff for free ('cause he knew 
I'd have him machine the stuff). But the telscope gauges are 
awesome. For $60, you're in fat city. I got a set from MSC.

I haven't used plastigauge for years, though. Maybe I'm just lazy. But I 
do measure things. And re-measure.

rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Room N42-140Q            |  This space for rent
Consultant            MIT IS&T unix-linux-help |
Voice:617-253-7438    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From wgrosenbach at juno.com  Thu Jan 31 15:36:08 2008
From: wgrosenbach at juno.com (William G Rosenbach)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:36:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill


From spitlist at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 15:43:08 2008
From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8645a$a6ed4160$0202a8c0@newcomputer>

As will Coil Spring Specialties that I referred to in an earlier reply.  In
fact I believe that all they do is custom springs to order.

Joe C. 

-----Original Message-----
From: fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:fot-bounces+spitlist=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William G
Rosenbach
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:36 PM
To: tedtsimx at bright.net
Cc: hottr6 at hotmail.com; fot at autox.team.net; awashatko at wi.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs

>>>One off springs can be done. But, the price is out of sight. We have
1000 springs per year made for us.  The development cost to do a pair
runs around $300 or higher.  Ted

It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
comprehensive line in stock. 
A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
multi-diameter winding?

I think the phone # for HyperCoil is 1.800.COIL 
Bill
Fot mailing list
Fot at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From lang at isis.mit.edu  Thu Jan 31 15:44:36 2008
From: lang at isis.mit.edu (Robert Lang)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:44:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Fot] Springs
In-Reply-To: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
References: <20080131.153609.2496.6.wgrosenbach@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0801311740260.18909@isis.mit.edu>

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:

> It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> comprehensive line in stock.
> A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> multi-diameter winding?

I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.

If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
changes what options you have for spring rates.

regards,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Billb at bnj.com  Thu Jan 31 16:21:52 2008
From: Billb at bnj.com (Bill Babcock)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
In-Reply-To: <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local>
	<47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com> <47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
Message-ID: <56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>

I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!

I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.

On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:

> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>
>> mjb.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>
>>
>>
> Mark
> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
> harbor freight.
> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
> like valve guide dimensions (id).
> I have been using them for years.
> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
> Glenn Franco
> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot

Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb at bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com


From kaskas at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 16:27:27 2008
From: kaskas at cox.net (Kas Kastner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:27:27 -0800
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
References: <2B52E8650115BB4085979C721A085AD405FD52@server.Triumph.local><47A1FAC4.1010704@bradakis.com>
	<47A24B9E.1010105@charter.net>
	<56878E0C-52F7-4790-ADDF-63B7FEC98220@bnj.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c86460$d75ca470$d214c548@RW>

Hear this , now hear this. Yes, Bill.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Babcock" <Billb at bnj.com>
To: "Glenn Franco" <gaf3 at charter.net>
Cc: <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] checking bearing clearances


> I've always found plastigage to be more accurate than telescoping  
> gauges. You get two error sources with telescoping gauges--one when  
> you tweak them through the bore against the friction stopper and the  
> spring (picture a little boing as the radius of the gauge slips past  
> perpendicular), and the second when you read them. I only use them for  
> approximate readings--I don't think you can get them to read within a  
> consistent thou of an inside mike, though they are very handy for  
> quick and dirty. I've had my set for forty years. YIKES!!
> 
> I wouldn't bother to buy an inside mike unless I was building more  
> than a few engines a year. Measurements take practice to make  
> accurately, that's what good machinist are for. Plastigage is how you  
> check that nobody screwed up and you didn't swap bearing shells.
> 
> On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Glenn Franco wrote:
> 
>> Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>>> I use plastigage, since I don't have a decent inside micrometer.
>>> Maybe it would be worth it to get one that would cover the
>>> appropriate size for TR6 and Spit big ends and mains.
>>>
>>> mjb.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> Fot mailing list
>>> Fot at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Mark
>> Pick up a set of telescope gauges at your local tool supply or even at
>> harbor freight.
>> They expand and take up the dimension of the cylinder and you use an
>> outside micrometer to take your measurement.
>> They also sell small hole gauges (same principle) for measuring things
>> like valve guide dimensions (id).
>> I have been using them for years.
>> But I always check with platigauge before assembly.
>> Glenn Franco
>> 72 Spit racer under construction & too many TR's
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> Fot mailing list
>> Fot at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
> 
> Bill Babcock
> Babcock & Jenkins
> Billb at bnj.com
> 503.936.7660
> www.bnj.com
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> Fot mailing list
> Fot at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot


From chris at tr4-racing.de  Thu Jan 31 13:18:56 2008
From: chris at tr4-racing.de (Marx Christian tr4-racing)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:18:56 +0100
Subject: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx
Message-ID: <25398DA5A1914CE890F9568937471F57@Mobil>

You are in search for me?
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tony Drews
  To: triumph_marx at freenet.de
  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 5:40 AM
  Subject: Fwd: [Fot] Paging Christian Marx




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    Thanks!


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From DSPGTi at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 19:29:56 2008
From: DSPGTi at aol.com (DSPGTi at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:29:56 EST
Subject: [Fot] checking bearing clearances
Message-ID: <ccc.288f977c.34d3de24@aol.com>

For inside measurements I would only trust a precision micrometer, frequently 
calibrated, in the hands of an experienced user. We are looking for less than 
a half of a thousands. One or two ten thousands should be the tolerance. 
Chinese micrometers from Horrible Freight are good for estimates and surveying on 
tear down but I would never trust them for assembly. I leave the accuracy for 
the machinist and double check that I'm not screwing up with plastigauge.
 
Dave Y





**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


From tedtsimx at bright.net  Thu Jan 31 19:40:15 2008
From: tedtsimx at bright.net (tedtsimx at bright.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:40:15 -0500
Subject: [Fot] Springs
Message-ID: <20080201024015.TKLA2859.invictus@[209.143.0.77]>

Bob, right you are.  Std "size" for coil overs is 2.5".  TR3 - 6 coils are 4".  Hyper coil and all the othe mfg's cannot go to a magic box and come up with any "inexpensive" spring unless it is a commonly used size.  We have abouyt 1000 springs a  year madae for us.  Dpoing custom springs is not cheap.  Especially if you need the spring mfg. to do all the engineering - load, coil bind, coil defelection, how accurate do you want variation (our springs are+=/- 2%) etc.  UK springs can vary as mcuh as 10%. Ted
> 
> From: Robert Lang <lang at isis.mit.edu>
> Date: Thu Jan 31, 5:44 PM
> To: William G Rosenbach <wgrosenbach at juno.com>
> CC: fot at autox.team.net,  awashatko at wi.rr.com
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Springs
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, William G Rosenbach wrote:
> 
> > It has been a while, but as I recall, HyperCoil would wind anything
> > custom. I don't remember anything about it being costly. They had a very
> > comprehensive line in stock.
> > A coil springs character is a straight forward mathematical formula. What
> > would make development costs so high? A complex multi-rate,
> > multi-diameter winding?
> 
> I think the "issue" with regard to springs that fit Triumphs is that 
> Triumph used an ID that is somewhat unique.
> 
> If you "convert" to a stock diameter spring (like 2.5"), then changing 
> springs is a piece of cake (and almost cheap). 2.5" is good because a lot 
> of coil-over threaded bodies are 2.5". Please note that I'm not suggesting 
> that you convert to coil overs, although I'm sure there are those on the 
> list that have. But changing the spring perches to 2.5" ID springs really 
> changes what options you have for spring rates.
> 
> regards,
> rml
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Lang              NER/SCCA                 |  This space for rent
> Solo Chair 2008       TR6 40 F Prepared        |  Triumph!
> Voice:781-438-2568    FAX: 617-258-9535        |  Cell: 339-927-4489
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